PDA

View Full Version : Why do Apple customers care so much?


MacBytes
Dec 12, 2007, 11:46 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Why do Apple customers care so much? (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20071213004630)
Description:: none

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

CalBoy
Dec 12, 2007, 11:58 PM
The early part of the piece resonated with me, as even members of this forum have been telling those with Leopard problems that it's "their fault" (the ironic part being that those who defend Apple have usually joined more recently:rolleyes:). Leopard has had a few bugs, and I'm glad this guy has pointed that out.

However, the rest of the article seems to be a bit much. I don't think every Apple fan hates Microsoft (heck, I'd venture only a very small minority do). BUT, I do see his point about being a part of something that is traditionally divisive in society.

Quillz
Dec 13, 2007, 12:05 AM
Only the blind Apple fanboys hate Microsoft. You know, the younger ones who forget that Apple was a horrible company making horrible products back in the 90s. It wasn't Steve Jobs who saved Apple back in 1998, it was Microsoft back in '97 who gave them a $150 million investment of non-voting shares.

cohibadad
Dec 13, 2007, 12:41 AM
haha. what a joke. Microsoft saved Apple? you must be joking. 150 million was the equivalent of leaving a buck behind for the waitress and it earned them a bundle in profit. as for hating Microsoft? depends on what you mean by hate. I think most reasonable people would certainly like Microsoft less the more you know about them. If the computer world was left to them we'd have a bizarro universe of screwups with frustrated users not even knowing what kind of innovations they were missing. Their supreme talents are FUD and vaporware and they survive only by monopoly to pay off their legal bills. But leave that all aside. Steve Jobs pretty much summed it up. Bottom line, they just have no taste.

Quillz
Dec 13, 2007, 12:43 AM
haha. what a joke. Microsoft saved Apple? you must be joking. 150 million was the equivalent of leaving a buck behind for the waitress and it earned them a bundle in profit. as for hating Microsoft? depends on what you mean by hate. I think most reasonable people would certainly like Microsoft less the more you know about them. If the computer world was left to them we'd have a bizarro universe of screwups with frustrated users not even knowing what kind of innovations they were missing. Their supreme talents are FUD and vaporware and they survive only by monopoly to pay off their legal bills. But leave that all aside. Steve Jobs pretty much summed it up. Bottom line, they just have no taste.
Vaporware? There's a difference between dropping features from a product and not releasing a product altogether. Of course Microsoft has had both, but so has Apple. Remember Talingent? Remember Copland? Apple has just as much dirty laundry as Microsoft.

dejo
Dec 13, 2007, 01:14 AM
It wasn't Steve Jobs who saved Apple back in 1998, it was Microsoft back in '97 who gave them a $150 million investment of non-voting shares.
Except that Steve Jobs came back to Apple in July of 1997, before Microsoft's investment was announced at MacWorld Expo Boston '97 (August 6-8).

Quillz
Dec 13, 2007, 01:18 AM
Except that Steve Jobs came back to Apple in July of 1997, before Microsoft's investment was announced at MacWorld Expo Boston '97 (August 6-8).I was referring more specifically to the iMac being released in 1998, I think it's far and away Apple's most iconic product. It had both the design and the specs to justify its price, something that most of the crap that came out of Apple in the 90s couldn't do.

Yvan256
Dec 13, 2007, 11:57 AM
It's one thing to not like a company for things they have done and keep on doing (Microsoft), it's another thing to dislike a company that has completely changed and turned around (Apple).

With Microsoft (old and new), it's always been about Microsoft formats, proprietary and closed stuff, etc. See DirectX, BMP, WMA, WMV, etc. I won't even mention Office file formats.

With Apple (old), it was almost the same thing. All Apple formats, all proprietary stuff, etc. See ADB, ADC, non-standard .PIC screen captures that wouldn't even read in most non-Mac graphic programs, etc.

With Apple (new), it's all about design, usability, stability, features, etc. Apart from the iPod connector, I don't see anything that is an "Apple-only" thing. Leopard is based on Unix and OpenGL, supports non-Mac file systems, can read and write PDFs without Adobe, Pages can read and write RTF (and others), iTunes can play and rip to MP3 and AAC, Quicktime Pro can export to MPEG-4 and H.264, screenshots are saved in PNG, and a lot more things I must be forgetting.

Apple has embraced the standards while Microsoft are still trying to push their own stuff onto their users.

Hmac
Dec 13, 2007, 12:26 PM
For the most part, Apple has set the standards for personal computing. Microsoft and virtually all of the PC mfgrs have pretty much been following Apple's marketing lead all these years. Things like death of the floppy, internal CD/DVD players, SCSI, networking, wireless...well, it's a long list and of course includes the entire concept of GUI.

Note that I'm not saying Apple invented these things. I'm saying they were almost always the first to put them in a personal computer and market it as a standard that the consumer should expect.

Silencio
Dec 13, 2007, 02:42 PM
The author of the article doth protest too much. Maybe if tech journalists / analysts didn't want to get raked over the coals every time they wrote about Apple, perhaps they should do more thorough research first. It's really easy to call tech journalists out on faulty reasoning or using biased sources, but of course some people get a little too worked up over it.

And even at Apple's lowest point, $150 million was a drop in the bucket and a largely symbolic investment on MSFT's part. Guess it worked, though perhaps too well if people still think that's what saved Apple. :rolleyes:

Mudbug
Dec 13, 2007, 04:29 PM
folks that write these articles don't care about the feedback, they care about the traffic a story like this gives them. I thought, however, this wasn't as bad as most in this topic field, so I posted it and gave him some traffic for having writting a not-totally-awful article.

cwt1nospam
Dec 13, 2007, 05:37 PM
Only the blind Apple fanboys hate Microsoft. You know, the younger ones who forget that Apple was a horrible company making horrible products back in the 90s. It wasn't Steve Jobs who saved Apple back in 1998, it was Microsoft back in '97 who gave them a $150 million investment of non-voting shares.
I like my Mac. I even like Apple. Sometimes.

Much more than I like my Mac though, I hate Microsoft. I hate them because I remember the 90's. I remember Windows 3.1 dominating the market because of IT support for it, yet being far inferior to the worst product Apple ever made, what ever that may be. I remember Microsoft announcing IE over a year in advance, and saying they would give it away, just to destroy Netscape's ability to sell Navigator. I remember dealing with macro viruses in 1994, and knowing that Microsoft would never get a handle on security. I remember them buying small, truly innovative companies just to kill off some of their products. I remember Windows 95. And 98.

People don't hate Microsoft because they don't remember. They hate Microsoft because they do remember. If you want to say bad things about Apple, you can go right ahead as long as they're true. Don't tell me I don't have good reason to hate Microsoft though. I do, and you would too, if only you could remember the 90s and the 80s. While you're at it, take a look at some of the crap they've tried to pull in this decade!

crackpip
Dec 13, 2007, 09:42 PM
Only the blind Apple fanboys hate Microsoft. You know, the younger ones who forget that Apple was a horrible company making horrible products back in the 90s. It wasn't Steve Jobs who saved Apple back in 1998, it was Microsoft back in '97 who gave them a $150 million investment of non-voting shares.

Great post, cwt1nospam!

Apple had more than a billion dollars in cash during this time, the $150 million didn't make a whole lot of difference. Of more importance to Apple was the commitment to develop Office for the Mac for the next 5 years.

Also, a lot of people hate Microsoft. My best friend has never owned or even used a Mac. He's always bought or built his PC's; he likes to game. He hates Microsoft. I work for the US government, our office is standardized on Windows and Office. Nobody likes Windows and most don't like Office either. But, there is no choice in what to use. One of my coworkers, a programmer, absolutely hates MS. None of these people have Macs at home. In fact, I can't think of a single person that I know that likes Windows. It seems that more and more Windows is just tolerated.

crackpip

roach
Dec 14, 2007, 02:14 AM
aIt's one thing to not like a company for things they have done and keep on doing (Microsoft), it's another thing to dislike a company that has completely changed and turned around (Apple).

With Microsoft (old and new), it's always been about Microsoft formats, proprietary and closed stuff, etc. See DirectX, BMP, WMA, WMV, etc. I won't even mention Office file formats.

With Apple (old), it was almost the same thing. All Apple formats, all proprietary stuff, etc. See ADB, ADC, non-standard .PIC screen captures that wouldn't even read in most non-Mac graphic programs, etc.

With Apple (new), it's all about design, usability, stability, features, etc. Apart from the iPod connector, I don't see anything that is an "Apple-only" thing. Leopard is based on Unix and OpenGL, supports non-Mac file systems, can read and write PDFs without Adobe, Pages can read and write RTF (and others), iTunes can play and rip to MP3 and AAC, Quicktime Pro can export to MPEG-4 and H.264, screenshots are saved in PNG, and a lot more things I must be forgetting.

Apple has embraced the standards while Microsoft are still trying to push their own stuff onto their users.

Uhmmm...Intel.

You can look inside an Apple machine when it had G# cpu and compare it today's intel cpu, it looks like PCeee. Damn, it's even as ugly inside as a PCeee.

MikeTheC
Dec 14, 2007, 08:37 AM
Um...

yeah, what cwt1nospam said. Mega Dittos, cwt1nospam.

Rodimus Prime
Dec 14, 2007, 08:52 AM
I like my Mac. I even like Apple. Sometimes.

Much more than I like my Mac though, I hate Microsoft. I hate them because I remember the 90's. I remember Windows 3.1 dominating the market because of IT support for it, yet being far inferior to the worst product Apple ever made, what ever that may be. I remember Microsoft announcing IE over a year in advance, and saying they would give it away, just to destroy Netscape's ability to sell Navigator. I remember dealing with macro viruses in 1994, and knowing that Microsoft would never get a handle on security. I remember them buying small, truly innovative companies just to kill off some of their products. I remember Windows 95. And 98.

People don't hate Microsoft because they don't remember. They hate Microsoft because they do remember. If you want to say bad things about Apple, you can go right ahead as long as they're true. Don't tell me I don't have good reason to hate Microsoft though. I do, and you would too, if only you could remember the 90s and the 80s. While you're at it, take a look at some of the crap they've tried to pull in this decade!

Well at the same token using your arguments some people have reasons to hate apple computers. We remember these POS macs in out schools computer labs. We remember dealing with these same macs crashing all the time. Those macs at our schools crashed more often than our home computers. We remember having papers we worked on in class get lost at at once because the computer crashed.
These years where early 90's-97ish

Earendil
Dec 14, 2007, 08:08 PM
Well at the same token using your arguments some people have reasons to hate apple computers. We remember these POS macs in out schools computer labs. We remember dealing with these same macs crashing all the time. Those macs at our schools crashed more often than our home computers. We remember having papers we worked on in class get lost at at once because the computer crashed.
These years where early 90's-97ish

And while you have bad memories associated, and the OS7/8 days were not really stable ones, I'm going to throw something out there: You problems were because you were using a computer that was several years old and not being taken care of, but instead trashed by dozens of kids and no one who new how to take care of them.

And, let's be honest, the Apple haters that have actually used a Mac, even as a child, are very very few and far between. Where as the majority of Mac users who dislike windows have had a vast number of hours working on them.

The majority of us Mac users have spent significant time with Windows. Some of us with Windows over the decades. And we still have to interact with windows at times. We dislike who Microsoft was, and is.

If you dislike Apple because a school computer crashed on you, sorry. But don't try and use that as an argument. I don't dislike my brother because he gave me a wet willy as a kid :rolleyes:

Rodimus Prime
Dec 14, 2007, 08:15 PM
And while you have bad memories associated, and the OS7/8 days were not really stable ones, I'm going to throw something out there: You problems were because you were using a computer that was several years old and not being taken care of, but instead trashed by dozens of kids and no one who new how to take care of them.

And, let's be honest, the Apple haters that have actually used a Mac, even as a child, are very very few and far between. Where as the majority of Mac users who dislike windows have had a vast number of hours working on them.

The majority of us Mac users have spent significant time with Windows. Some of us with Windows over the decades. And we still have to interact with windows at times. We dislike who Microsoft was, and is.

If you dislike Apple because a school computer crashed on you, sorry. But don't try and use that as an argument. I don't dislike my brother because he gave me a wet willy as a kid :rolleyes:


so let me get this straight. You are allowed to use crap from against windows from the same time span but people are not allowed to use the arguments against apple from the time span. you are not allowed to have it both ways. If you are go to bash windows from the past then it fair game to get slammed by apple crap from past. Most I know have bad memories of apple computers from when they where in school.

cwt1nospam
Dec 15, 2007, 07:17 AM
You are allowed to use crap from against windows from the same time span but people are not allowed to use the arguments against apple from the time span. you are not allowed to have it both ways.

Not true at all. You can use arguments against Apple, but there is a catch. They need to be accurate. During the time frame you mention, Apple had been weakened by Windows 95 and the false perception that it was "as good as a Mac." PC fanboys in IT departments everywhere used this opportunity to push for replacing Macs with PCs. To make it appear that the change was necessary, they very often would provide as little support to Macs as they could get away with. I remember one company where they planned on getting rid of Macs, but the users refused to switch so they stopped doing maintenance on them altogether. Even then, they had to wait another 3 years before they could switch them all!

This isn't to say there weren't problems with Macs. Heck there still are, and always will be. The key is: how many problems and how severe are they when compared to other platforms? The truth is that Mac problems have always been far fewer and far less troublesome than PCs, no matter what time frame you choose.

Your memory is skewed because you didn't have to deal with PCs at the time. What you remember as a troublesome time for Macs (System 7 certainly wasn't the best Mac OS) was the beginning of the nightmare era for PCs. It was during that time that viruses began to be a huge problem for them, and the dreaded blue screen of death became infamous then. Remember, we're talking about Win 95, 98, and ME during the time from Mac OS 7 to the beta of OS X. That's a lot of very bad Windows operating systems! Not that XP doesn't suck, but it is better than the crap MS pedaled during the 90s.

lil'homunculus
Dec 15, 2007, 07:46 AM
"but it is better than the crap MS pedaled during the 90s.";)
why do you limit it only to the '90's? :p
Man, I have MS messenger on my machine and it makes me cringe every time i open it up to talk to my 'microtard' friends. Talk about shell shock! D O S = oiks! everything after windows 95b was a conspiracy to hurt me. That platform has been a disaster from day one. who are all these people who swear by it? Mac may have had it's problems, but really, nothing can compare. HD failures, Leopard glitches, and all the other niggling shiite aside. Heck, i have to bring a defective battery in soon. Guess what? They're going to fix it. (apologies to all with their ongoing difficulties with applecare, i feel your pain);)