Panther DVD Software Preview [Archive]

fpnc

Sep 30, 2003, 01:28 PM

However, unfortunately, there is still no support for software-based de-interlacing. This means that for most users and on many DVDs you will see pretty bad interlacing (horizontal combing) on any DVD that originated from a video source. This makes many DVDs very "difficult" to watch when using Apple's DVD player. Thus you can forget about quality playback of most music videos or music concerts, TV series released on DVD, PBS documentaries, and even some movie titles. The sad thing is that I can get very high-quality DVD deinterlacing on my PC when running even Windows 98.

Right now the only way to get good quality de-interlacing on a Mac is to use the VideoLan Client (VLC) player. However, VLC is a bit unstable and won't play all DVDs (but it's free and it does support software-based de-interlacing so the image quality can be significantly better than with Apple's player).

bankshot

Sep 30, 2003, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by shadowfax
i don't think that macs have supported surround sound until the G5 Powermac, unless you count 3rd party stuff... right?

That was my impression too. Of course the inclusion of digital out on the G5 was a dead giveaway that they'd need to support it in DVD Player. My question is, if you have a 3rd party sound card with S/PDIF out, will DVD Player use it? That would be quite nice, but would Apple care enough to do this, or do enough people even have this to care? Most people with 3rd party digital sound are probably musicians and probably don't care much about watching DVDs per se.

FriarTuck

Sep 30, 2003, 01:35 PM

I'm happy to hear this news. I show DVD's through my PB and a projector as part of a weekly presentation, and I will make good use of the more precise controls. Should make things look more polished & professional, and therefore consistent with the great impression Keynote makes on audiences.

bankshot

Sep 30, 2003, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by fpnc
However, unfortunately, there is still no support for software-based de-interlacing.

Submit feedback! Though I have a feeling this may be one of those nitpicky quality issues that most users don't care about or even notice. Apple may realize this and just blow it off. Kind of like my pet peeve with the iPod, gaps between tracks. Heck, let's all submit feedback for both of those issues and see what happens... :D

fpnc

Sep 30, 2003, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by DeusOmnis
does it support surround sound yet? i remember something about it not doing that before.....

Panther's DVD Player supports digital audio optical output that can be decoded by external hardware (e.g. your 5.1 receiver). This should just work on the new G5s, but I don't know whether they will support output from third-party devices. However, there is no surround sound decoding in the DVD player itself (the latter wouldn't make much sense anyway as there is no built-in hardware for multi-channel analog output).

greenstork

Sep 30, 2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by doc_mac
These features will take a Mac closer to complete home integration. Does anyone know if it is possible to get YBR video out or is the best we can expect svideo?

The ultimate for me would be for Apple to come out with it's own Tivo device that wirelessly hooks up to a desktop or laptop on the airport network. Throw in a video ipod that connects to this system and doubles as a touch screen remote control and I will be thrilled. Now that's a digital hub! We're long overdue for the next big thing type gadget from Apple and this would be awesome.

Here's hoping :D

Powerbook G5

Sep 30, 2003, 01:45 PM

Oooo...and I remember rumors of an Apple widescreen 30" display...imagine dual 30" HD screens and 5.1 surround sound. I can definitely imagine one sweet PowerMac setup with that. :D

fpnc

Sep 30, 2003, 01:47 PM

About the lack of software-based de-interlacing on Apple's DVD player:

Originally posted by bankshot
Submit feedback! ...let's all submit feedback for both of those issues and see what happens... :D

I have submitted feedback directly to Apple via the DVD Player product pages (many months ago, I even gave them a list of popular DVD titles that suffer from this problem). Apple definitely knows about this issue, since for the last several years there have been multiple threads on the Apple forums concerning this issue.

Originally posted by bankshot
Though I have a feeling this may be one of those nitpicky quality issues that most users don't care about or even notice. Apple may realize this and just blow it off...

If you are really serious about watching DVDs on a Cinema display (or any computer display, forget about "...dual 30" HD screens and 5.1 surround sound...") then you can hardly ignore this issue. Some DVDs show such bad image combing that I immediately get a sad, sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach when I try to watch them on my Mac. This is made even worse when I view the same DVD on my PC and get literally perfect image quality.

greenstork

Sep 30, 2003, 01:50 PM

Do you all actually watch DVD's on your desktop computer? Call me naiive, but I just don't get it. I definitely see the desire to watch DVD's on a laptop when traveling or otherwise but I don't understand why anyone would want to sit in front of their desktop computer to watch a DVD aside from creating your own movies and DVD's. I'd much rather be in front of my big TV, kicking back on a couch but I would be interested to hear other people's preferences.

1adonis1

Sep 30, 2003, 02:15 PM

I watch movies on my desktop while the game is on. I'm a multi-tasker!
Originally posted by greenstork
Do you all actually watch DVD's on your desktop computer? Call me naiive, but I just don't get it. I definitely see the desire to watch DVD's on a laptop when traveling or otherwise but I don't understand why anyone would want to sit in front of their desktop computer to watch a DVD aside from creating your own movies and DVD's. I'd much rather be in front of my big TV, kicking back on a couch but I would be interested to hear other people's preferences.

fpnc

Sep 30, 2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by greenstork
Do you all actually watch DVD's on your desktop computer? ... I'd much rather be in front of my big TV, kicking back on a couch but I would be interested to hear other people's preferences.

I tend to agree with greenstork. I think the problem is the distance between the display and the viewer. On a computer display the video (motion) can appear to be uncomfortably close unless you can sit back several times your "normal" working distance. But at those distances you'd be better off with a good quality, large screen, progressive DVD/TV combination.

However, a properly de-interlaced and scaled DVD image on a good LCD computer display is definitely a wonder to behold (provides an amazingly stable and well defined image).

Stella

Sep 30, 2003, 02:37 PM

Your assuming everyone has huge TV + audio set up such as a home theatre that can do 5.1 sound etc etc.

Not everyone has this.

I don't, for one. I can get 5.1 sound using my PC and a better picture than I can on my lowly stereo 19" TV. I use my Mac also for watching DVDs as well - comedies etc where I don't really need 5.1 sound - AND - it doesn't skip as much as my PC - infact, it doesn't skip at all. Also, I use computers because I don't have a external DVD player..!

Why don't I just get a home theatre and larger TV? Can't be arsed, better money to spend my money on - such as Apple hardware!!

When I get my G5 and digital speakers, I'll use that exclusively for DVD watching instead of my PC.

Originally posted by greenstork
Do you all actually watch DVD's on your desktop computer? Call me naiive, but I just don't get it. I definitely see the desire to watch DVD's on a laptop when traveling or otherwise but I don't understand why anyone would want to sit in front of their desktop computer to watch a DVD aside from creating your own movies and DVD's. I'd much rather be in front of my big TV, kicking back on a couch but I would be interested to hear other people's preferences.

saabmp3

Sep 30, 2003, 02:37 PM

I watch movie all the time on my laptop when I'm in bed or soemthing, elspecially last year when I was living in a dorm room. Now I mostly use my PC for watching DVD's (bigger 19 inch monitor compared to the 15 inch LCD) and DIVX movies. I've got no problems watching a movie on my screen, I do it quite often, especially while I'm doing work.

In addition to this I have my computer hooked up to a HD projector too so I can watch them from a more comfortable couch :-p.

BEN

iLife

Sep 30, 2003, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by greenstork
Do you all actually watch DVD's on your desktop computer? Call me naiive, but I just don't get it. I definitely see the desire to watch DVD's on a laptop when traveling or otherwise but I don't understand why anyone would want to sit in front of their desktop computer to watch a DVD aside from creating your own movies and DVD's. I'd much rather be in front of my big TV, kicking back on a couch but I would be interested to hear other people's preferences.

i could see the multitasking thing... but honestly i'm a student, i don't have a lot of room and my apple dispaly is nicer than my TV plus i can chat on the internet and watch a movie i rented at teh same time... seems trivial, but when you drop 3k on a computer you kinda want it to do a lot...

Powerbook G5

Sep 30, 2003, 03:04 PM

I use my Xbox connected to a 27" Samsung HDtv with HDtv connector pack and 5.1 surround sound through an optical cable to my 600 watt Pioneer DTS receiver, but I am sure a G5 can get better quality on a HD cinema display, not to mention I bet it is more stable. With the Xbox, it freezes if I pause it or switch chapters too quickly and I have to mess with the DVD playback connector sometimes to get it to recognize a DVD. Sure, I could buy a stand alone player, but if you have a computer that can play DVDs, then there isn't much point in paying extra for another DVD player.

baby duck monge

Sep 30, 2003, 03:11 PM

personally, i like the sound of the part where it recognizes ichat messages and whatnot. sometimes you're just watching to waste some time, and you would be much happier if that hottie you were interested in became available for, say, a date. ;)

1adonis1

Sep 30, 2003, 03:13 PM

And it's nice to be studying on the bed, while Fight Club is playing on the desktop.

Jeffrey

Sep 30, 2003, 03:35 PM

DVD player has supported surround sound since OS 9 and the OS X player has it too. It is only the old 2 channel Dolby but it still works.

Before I bought a real DVD player I placed my TiBook on the coffee table and plugged the headphone jack into my stereo (with a mini plug to stereo RCA cable) and had surround sound. There was a bit of noise, being analog with a massively long cable I wasn't too surprised.

The only problem, anything encoded in 5.1 audio sounded lousy, the front channel never seemed to work quite right. Anything in the older format worked great.

a_kim

Sep 30, 2003, 04:16 PM

I actually use my powerbook to watch movies a lot. I hook it up to my TV through the S-Video connection.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone out there who has been playing with Panther could tell me if they got rid of the "double black bars" on widescreen movies that are at the alternative aspect ratio (I don't know which is the normal and which is the alternative ratio). If you don't know what I'm talking about, sometimes a DVD will have a wider aspect ratio, and instead of the black bars at top and bottom simply being wider, there will be two sets of black bars: one set representing the normal aspect ratio, and another set (not actually black, but a dark grey) filling in the rest of the space.

I get asked all the time, "Why are there two sets of bars?", and I just feel stupid telling people that it's a software problem.

Can I get some feedback concerning this on Panther's DVD player?

-Alex

impierced

Sep 30, 2003, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by bankshot
That was my impression too. Of course the inclusion of digital out on the G5 was a dead giveaway that they'd need to support it in DVD Player. My question is, if you have a 3rd party sound card with S/PDIF out, will DVD Player use it? That would be quite nice, but would Apple care enough to do this, or do enough people even have this to care? Most people with 3rd party digital sound are probably musicians and probably don't care much about watching DVDs per se.

Yes. A new feature in the DVD Player is the ability to specify the audio interface you want to use for output. The major player here is M-Audio and they've already released drivers for their Revolution 7.1 card that supports 10.3.

More info :

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/drivers/revolution71.html

DoubleA100

Sep 30, 2003, 04:32 PM

Now I can finally watch DVD's on my dual monitor while I work on my 17" Powerook. Isn't life gravy!?!? If I could make love to Apple I would do it oh so hard!!!!

PHGN

Sep 30, 2003, 04:41 PM

Is there any easy way to get 5.1 out of a PowerBook? Easy means usb or 1394, no internal cards.

Marble

Sep 30, 2003, 04:48 PM

Yep.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/consumer/sonicaTheatre_page1.php

SelectBishopEgg

Sep 30, 2003, 04:54 PM

Will bookmarks (or anything else) allow you to skip over the incredibly annoying intro's to some DVD's that normally prohibit you from skipping? I've got some DVD lying around that forces you to watch over a minute of unskippable trash before you get to the menu...hopefully with new DVD I can skip this?

rjstanford

Sep 30, 2003, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by a_kim
I was wondering if anyone out there who has been playing with Panther could tell me if they got rid of the "double black bars" on widescreen movies that are at the alternative aspect ratio (I don't know which is the normal and which is the alternative ratio). If you don't know what I'm talking about, sometimes a DVD will have a wider aspect ratio, and instead of the black bars at top and bottom simply being wider, there will be two sets of black bars: one set representing the normal aspect ratio, and another set (not actually black, but a dark grey) filling in the rest of the space.Basically, DVDs are recorded with one of two possible aspect ratios - 4:3 (standard) or 16:9 (anamorphic widescreen).

Then you get the content aspect ratio. Generally, if its one of the two DVD ratios, matching is easy. If its very close, they may either stretch/compress or trim part of the material to match. If its far off (like a 2.35:1 movie) they'll pick the closest (16:9) and, rather than clipping the content, will "letterbox" it.

This is pretty meaningless on a conventional television, but on a widescreen TV or a computer that can show the media, it makes a much bigger deal.

So all the old letterboxing annoyances about wasting lines of horizontal resolution are still around, but at least they can start with a closer format.

Note: it gets really annoying when you get widescreen movies (such as True Lies) that have a wide ratio but are recorded at a 4:3 level.

-Richard

tjwett

Sep 30, 2003, 05:20 PM

Just noticed that one of the DVD controller panels looks alot like an iPod. Wouldn't it be cool if they somehow let us use our iPods as a sort of remote control for apps like DVD player and iTunes! Probably never happen, just a pipe dream.

J@ffa

Sep 30, 2003, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by SelectBishopEgg
Will bookmarks (or anything else) allow you to skip over the incredibly annoying intro's to some DVD's that normally prohibit you from skipping? I've got some DVD lying around that forces you to watch over a minute of unskippable trash before you get to the menu...hopefully with new DVD I can skip this?

Don't quote me on this, but probably yes. The way it works is simply to remember the time period - e.g. 00(hrs):03(mins):34(seconds) - on the appropriate video stream, then access it when it's instructed to. Kinda like when you use the scene selection or chaptering features on a DVD...

From Win to Mac

Sep 30, 2003, 07:18 PM

i think that would be illegal.

it would probably show it, then skip

WM.

Sep 30, 2003, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Jeffrey
DVD player has supported surround sound since OS 9 and the OS X player has it too. It is only the old 2 channel Dolby but it still works.

Before I bought a real DVD player I placed my TiBook on the coffee table and plugged the headphone jack into my stereo (with a mini plug to stereo RCA cable) and had surround sound. There was a bit of noise, being analog with a massively long cable I wasn't too surprised.

The only problem, anything encoded in 5.1 audio sounded lousy, the front channel never seemed to work quite right. Anything in the older format worked great.
Dolby Stereo isn't what people are referring to when they say "surround sound". Rather, they're usually talking about at least Dolby Surround/Pro Logic (4.0, L/R/C/S), and maybe Dolby Digital or DTS (5.1, L/R/C/LS/RS/LFE), or a less-common standard like Sony's SDDS that may be 7.1 or more.

In this case, people are referring to Dolby Digital AC-3, which is 5.1. Point being that DVD Player has not supported surround sound until this new version 4.0.

I'm a little rusty on some of this, so please correct me if I'm wrong, everybody!

HTH
WM

jettredmont

Sep 30, 2003, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by arn
MultiMonitor support is always nice.

arn

Personally, the ideal I'd go for is this (at least as an option):

Largest (or main) monitor gets the video stream, full-screen.

Smaller (or secondary) monitor gets the controls, blacked out until a movement of the mouse, on an otherwise black screen (ie, no bright UI filling up the whole screen when you go to hit the "pause" button, temporarily blinding you, in which state of blindness you end up clicking on every app in your dock ...)

That, I would pay money for. :)

Plus, of course, it plays to the Mac hardware advantages and gives a real, concrete benefit over any Windows solution out there (that I know of anyways ... WinDVD and PowerDVD and WMP ...)

robotrenegade

Sep 30, 2003, 08:40 PM

the new controler looks hot!

Java

Sep 30, 2003, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by iLife
i could see the multitasking thing... but honestly i'm a student, i don't have a lot of room and my apple dispaly is nicer than my TV plus i can chat on the internet and watch a movie i rented at teh same time... seems trivial, but when you drop 3k on a computer you kinda want it to do a lot...

I second that:p

foniks2020

Sep 30, 2003, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by From Win to Mac
i think that would be illegal.

it would probably show it, then skip

The only thing they are required to show is the Copyright notice.... and I don't think it has to be shown at the beginning... just has to be available to see, same as other media.

Otherwise, it's your DVD now and you can watch the content anyway you choose.

Sol

Sep 30, 2003, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by arn
MultiMonitor support is always nice.

Yes, especially when the older OS 9 could do it but not the latest and greatest OS X.

Surround sound was long overdue for DVD Player.

Now that these two features are included in the program maybe Apple will start improving the image quality, most importantly the combing effect that interlacing creates on computer monitors.

And where is the application to do to DVDs what iTunes did to CDs? Macrovision be damned, I want an easy to use, no brainer way to rip my DVDs and store them in my hard drive as MP4s.

BigHairyBuds

Sep 30, 2003, 11:29 PM

An easy way to make back up's of your DVD's onto your harddrive is by using DVD Backup...an even easier method (one that doesn't remove encryption however) is to just make a Disk Image of the DVD and voila!

I've been interested in making personal copies of DVD's I own using my Mac. To do this the easy way, bust out good old freeware DVD Backup, rip said DVD to HD, unleash expensive Window's port of DVD2OneX to fit info onto a single layer dvd and your good. If anyone can tell me how to do dual-layer dvd's (dvd-9) using a superdrive i'd love to hear.

Don't steal...borrow :D.
BKONAR@SBCGLOBAL.NET

first post...and 10.2.8 is garbage...give me 10.1!!!

Wardofsky

Oct 1, 2003, 12:50 AM

I wonder if they will also release some hardware to support the audio, that'll go in well.

I'm hoping for support for normal files like .wm* .mov .mpg(s) so on, sometimes the other players don't handle them very well.

shadowfax

Oct 1, 2003, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by Wardofsky
I wonder if they will also release some hardware to support the audio, that'll go in well.

I'm hoping for support for normal files like .wm* .mov .mpg(s) so on, sometimes the other players don't handle them very well. why would dvd player support mpg and wmv? quicktime does mpg, and wmv is unnecessary.

Sol

Oct 1, 2003, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by shadowfax
why would dvd player support mpg and wmv? quicktime does mpg, and wmv is unnecessary.

I agree that WMV is unecessary. After all, why make it easy for Microsoft to push its own format?

I do think that MPG1 and by extension VCD support should be included in Apple DVD Player. Most hardware DVD players offer support for this format so why not Apple as well? Quicktime is good for file playback, not for disc playback.

Wardofsky

Oct 1, 2003, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by shadowfax
why would dvd player support mpg and wmv? quicktime does mpg, and wmv is unnecessary.

WMV yes perhaps useless, but I suppose I wouldn't mind having the ability to do so.
It's like having a self-destruct button on something, you'll never use it but it's there...

Leave me alone...

PHGN

Oct 1, 2003, 02:23 AM

WMV suport in quicktime would be welcome. It's a damn good codec.

MOFS

Oct 1, 2003, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by greenstork
Do you all actually watch DVD's on your desktop computer? Call me naiive, but I just don't get it. I definitely see the desire to watch DVD's on a laptop when traveling or otherwise but I don't understand why anyone would want to sit in front of their desktop computer to watch a DVD aside from creating your own movies and DVD's. I'd much rather be in front of my big TV, kicking back on a couch but I would be interested to hear other people's preferences.

In the UK, even if you use your TV as just a medium to watch DVDs or videos you have to pay £116 ($174) for a TV liscence unless your over 75. Hence using your computer as a DVD player circumvents this...poll tax for the BBC saving us poor students a huge amount of money for what would be essentially an entertainement buy!

hvfsl

Oct 1, 2003, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by fpnc
However, unfortunately, there is still no support for software-based de-interlacing. This means that for most users and on many DVDs you will see pretty bad interlacing (horizontal combing) on any DVD that originated from a video source. This makes many DVDs very "difficult" to watch when using Apple's DVD player. Thus you can forget about quality playback of most music videos or music concerts, TV series released on DVD, PBS documentaries, and even some movie titles. The sad thing is that I can get very high-quality DVD deinterlacing on my PC when running even Windows 98.

Right now the only way to get good quality de-interlacing on a Mac is to use the VideoLan Client (VLC) player. However, VLC is a bit unstable and won't play all DVDs (but it's free and it does support software-based de-interlacing so the image quality can be significantly better than with Apple's player).

This is my main problem with Macs at the moment, but I can't use VLC to solve the interlacing problem since my PB G4 550 is not fast enough to do software deinterlacing.

What I want is hardware deinterlacing, all ATI cards from the ATI128 support this. Nvidia cards don't support this but all the Macs that have Nvidia cards are fast enough to do software deinterlacing anyway.

hvfsl

Oct 1, 2003, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by PHGN
Is there any easy way to get 5.1 out of a PowerBook? Easy means usb or 1394, no internal cards.

I have heard the Creative sound blaster extigy working with 10.2, but only in stereo. Maybe it will work in 5.1 sound in Panther.

NicoMan

Oct 1, 2003, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by bankshot
Kind of like my pet peeve with the iPod, gaps between tracks
Oh my god! This is the single most annoying thing about the iPod, IMHO. You are listening to a 2-hour set from a DJ and you get those 1-2 second gaps. Grrrr!!!!

NicoMan

Oct 1, 2003, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I use my Xbox connected to a 27" Samsung HDtv with HDtv connector pack and 5.1 surround sound through an optical cable to my 600 watt Pioneer DTS receiver, but I am sure a G5 can get better quality on a HD cinema display, not to mention I bet it is more stable. With the Xbox, it freezes if I pause it or switch chapters too quickly and I have to mess with the DVD playback connector sometimes to get it to recognize a DVD. Sure, I could buy a stand alone player, but if you have a computer that can play DVDs, then there isn't much point in paying extra for another DVD player.
You've already spent that much money on your HDTV, receiver and 5.1 speaker package that a DVD player shouldn't be a problem no? For example the Toshiba SD330E is supposed to be outstanding value for money (in the UK you can get it for about £100), or if you wanna match your receiver, there are 2 or 3 Pioneer (like the 565A, the 656A or, if you got the iLink input on your receiver, the 757Ai) universal players, all of them really good. Using the xBox for watching DVDs is asking for trouble, if you are that concerned by quality, IMHO.

NicoMan

Oct 1, 2003, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by DoubleA100
Now I can finally watch DVD's on my dual monitor while I work on my 17" Powerook. Isn't life gravy!?!? If I could make love to Apple I would do it oh so hard!!!!
Easy, Tiger, or we are going to get censored...

hvfsl

Oct 1, 2003, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by NicoMan
You've already spent that much money on your HDTV, receiver and 5.1 speaker package that a DVD player shouldn't be a problem no? For example the Toshiba SD330E is supposed to be outstanding value for money (in the UK you can get it for about £100), or if you wanna match your receiver, there are 2 or 3 Pioneer (like the 565A, the 656A or, if you got the iLink input on your receiver, the 757Ai) universal players, all of them really good. Using the xBox for watching DVDs is asking for trouble, if you are that concerned by quality, IMHO.

The Xbox also does not have as good picture quality as a proper DVD player, the same goes for the PS2.

As about the deinterlacing, Appleinsider is saying that the new Apple DVD PLayer will have hardware interlacing for the graphics chips that support it. In the PC world these are all the Nvidia cards from Geforce 3 onwards and all the ATI cards from Rage 128 onwards. So I hope the Radeon 7000M in my PB G4 is supported by Apple, since it is in the Windows world.

fpnc

Oct 1, 2003, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by hvfsl
As about the deinterlacing, Appleinsider is saying that the new Apple DVD PLayer will have hardware interlacing for the graphics chips that support it. In the PC world these are all the Nvidia cards from Geforce 3 onwards and all the ATI cards from Rage 128 onwards. So I hope the Radeon 7000M in my PB G4 is supported by Apple, since it is in the Windows world.

As for the hardware-based de-interlacing that will be supported under Panther (v10.3), this is apparently only available if you install ATI's retail video card software. Panther doesn't support hardware de-interlacing right out of the box and since this "support" requires ATI's software the NVIDIA cards won't work. Also, the de-interlacing support with the ATI cards is nothing new. If you install ATI's retail software you can access the de-interlacing feature today in OS 9 and 10.1 (but not 10.2, Quartz Extreme apparently disabled -- or broke -- ATI's de-interlacing extension).

As a test (under OS 9), I installed ATI's retail software on my PowerBook DVI and tried their hardware-based de-interlacing. I wasn't that impressed, it was somewhat better than Apple's "stock" DVD playback but IMO it wasn't nearly as good as the de-interlacing that is implemented in the VideoLAN Client (VLC) software. Thus, your results when using ATI's retail software may vary, apparently only the latest Radeon cards can do good quality de-interlacing.

mrjamin

Oct 1, 2003, 06:40 PM

does it have digital zoom though?? one thing thats always p'd me off about dvd player. i know you can do that screen zoom thing of osx, but its still not nearly as convenient as a "convert 1:85 to 16:9" button, and the screen zoom is a pain in the ass when you exit full screen

Bloobie

Oct 1, 2003, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by Jeffrey
DVD player has supported surround sound since OS 9 and the OS X player has it too. It is only the old 2 channel Dolby but it still works.

Before I bought a real DVD player I placed my TiBook on the coffee table and plugged the headphone jack into my stereo (with a mini plug to stereo RCA cable) and had surround sound. There was a bit of noise, being analog with a massively long cable I wasn't too surprised.

The only problem, anything encoded in 5.1 audio sounded lousy, the front channel never seemed to work quite right. Anything in the older format worked great.

This is stereo, not surround sound. What everyone considers (at least in this conversation) to be surround sound is 5.1 audio, not 2.0 stereo. This capability has been absent from Macs until, afaik, the M-Audio Revolution sound card coupled with the VLC player under OS X. Creative's one and only sound card for Macs is also a stereo card, and never really worth buying.

Bloobie

Oct 1, 2003, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by PHGN
Is there any easy way to get 5.1 out of a PowerBook? Easy means usb or 1394, no internal cards.

Yes, using the M-Audio Sonica line of USB products.

http://www.m-audio.com/

PUSS

Oct 2, 2003, 03:47 AM

I installed a Panther beta just to see the DVD player and whether I could get a Dolby Digtal 5.1 signal out via my Delta Audiophile soundcard and it worked. I have G4 Dual 1.25ghz.
On the interlacing issue, I installed a Radeon 9000 pro in to my old G4 dual 450. The Ati driver software that came with a deinterlacing option I think, don't have that cumputer anymore to check. :cool:

Tequila Grandma

Oct 4, 2003, 11:08 PM

Just one thing: Why, oh why, is there no Dolby Headphone support? For those who are unaware, Dolby Headphone is a piece of software that will take a 5.1 audio track, and downmix it to a 2.0 version that you can use with headphones. Unlike normal downmixing, the Dolby Headphone process actually very accurately simulates a 5.1 track. There are several pieces DVD playing software for Windows that use Dolby Headphone, so it's disappinting that Apple won't put up the cash to use it in their DVD playing software. This would be a wonderful solution for being able to watch a film with wonderful 5.1 sound while on a trip using your PowerBook.

It's already an embarassment enough that Apple took so long to adapt 5.1 in general, and I would have hoped that they'd want to catch up by adding the next big thing - Dolby Headphone - to their software, but I suppose they're following the same pattern.

Packetloss

Dec 13, 2003, 05:29 PM

I need a few questions answered about DVD playback on OSX.

Have Apple solved the issue with the de-interlacing yet?

If not, why have they chosen a halfway solution to this thing?

johnnyjibbs

Dec 13, 2003, 05:48 PM

I haven't seen any interlaced artifacts yet but I'm mainly watching movies where you don't get this. I haven't noticed it on the special features though.

In my opinion the Panther DVD player is very sleek and a lot nicer and more functional than the one in Jaguar.

adug_au

Mar 7, 2004, 11:29 PM

I know this comes a bit late, but here is an update on the de-interlacing issue.

I haven't been able to check this yet, but Apple now claims to have implemented de-interlacing in it's current hardware. The bad news is that Apple appears to have no intention of doing this for the rest of us. I found this out when I accused Apple (via their Australian operation) of breaching our Trade Practices Act on the grounds that their claims regarding DVD playback quality were patently false. Apple's response (set out in part below) was predictable. What was most disappointing, however, was their complete failure to acknowledge that this might be an issue.

Please feel free to email me at adug_au@REMOVETHISyahoo.com (having removed the REMOVETHIS) and pass this message on to others who may be affected by this as it would be good to repudiate Apple's statement (see below) that customers don't care about interlacing.

Apple Asia's statement on Interlacing:

Commercially available DVDs are either encoded with interlaced frames
or progressive frames. Since movies on commercially available DVD are
typically made with film, which unlike video does not use interlacing,
this effect does not generally occur.

‘De-interlacing’ attempts to override interlacing on the part of the
DVD author by using compromising techniques such as ‘blending fields’,
‘discarding fields’, ‘motion compensation’ etc reduce the effect of
‘jagged lines’. However, the compromise is that motion may not be as
smooth when played back on a television. Accordingly whether or not a
DVD author decides to encode their DVD with interlaced frames or
progressive frames is at their discretion.

For your further information, depending on the capability of the
computer, ‘de-interlacing’ is an automatically-enabled feature in
Apple’s DVD Video Player when run on certain products including its
current release PowerMac G5, PowerBook G4 and iBook and iMac computers.

‘De-interlacing’ is also a feature of Apple’s digital video editing
software ‘Final Cut Pro’ often used during the authoring of
DVD-Video’s. During this authoring production stage is when an author
would decide what his priorities are, choosing between ‘jagged lines’
on progressive-scan monitors, or motion smoothness on televisions and
encoding the DVD accordingly.

Given the above, Apple disagrees with your suggestion that Apple has in
any way breached the Trade Practices Act in connection with the
marketing or supply of its DVD players.