A Couple DSLR Beginner Questions...

[TimJim]

OK i have a Nikon D80 and i have a couple questions if you guys can answer them.

1) How do I set it to no flash but have the shutter open and close as quick as it would with flash on? (ex. Picture of christmas tree with lights off in room and no flash, but the shutter open for too long and causing it to blur)

2) How do i set it to burst shot?

3) What type of photo should i set it to (RAW? JPEG?)

[Westside guy]

1) How do I set it to no flash but have the shutter open and close as quick as it would with flash on? (ex. Picture of christmas tree with lights off in room and no flash, but the shutter open for too long and causing it to blur)

Shoot in manual mode - you can set the aperture and shutter speed to whatever you'd like. For this type of shot, though, I'd suggest shooting off a tripod - that'll address the "blur" problem you mentioned.

2) How do i set it to burst shot?

There's a button that looks like three boxes superimposed on each other - that'll let you rotate through the various shutter modes.

3) What type of photo should i set it to (RAW? JPEG?)

I shoot RAW - I think it gives you the most control over your final image. If your goal is to get the maximum number of shots per second, though, you'll need to shoot JPEG.

[termina3]

1) How do I set it to no flash but have the shutter open and close as quick as it would with flash on? (ex. Picture of christmas tree with lights off in room and no flash, but the shutter open for too long and causing it to blur)

You may set it to manual (the "M") or speed priority (the "S"). Speed priority will allow you to set the speed and the computer will calculate the aperture accordingly. Of course, you'll probably end up with a really dark shot–as noted above, a tripod would be a good idea.

2) How do i set it to burst shot?

See above.

3) What type of photo should i set it to (RAW? JPEG?)

If you're asking, JPEG.

[Digital Skunk]

(1) Already answered...

(2) Already answered...

(3) It doesn't really matter, however, if you DO want to get the most out of EDITING your images shoot RAW and make sure you have the space to hold all of that info. There isn't anything inherently wrong with JPGs unless you don't mind your camera doing the image processing, and on the D80 the in camera processing is actually pretty darn good, in many ways it's a little better than the D2xs and D200.

[TimJim]

Well i set it to the 3 Box thing as my setting and it still didnt take a burst shot, am i doing something wrong here?

[Digital Skunk]

Well i set it to the 3 Box thing as my setting and it still didnt take a burst shot, am i doing something wrong here?

You won't be able to take 3 bursts in a row if you can't get focus to lock. It also won't be able to do bursts if the shutter speed is slower than the lag between the shots.

[termina3]

Well i set it to the 3 Box thing as my setting and it still didnt take a burst shot, am i doing something wrong here?

…and remember, you need to hold the shutter to get a burst going.

[ChrisA]

OK i have a Nikon D80 and i have a couple questions if you guys can answer them.

1) How do I set it to no flash but have the shutter open and close as quick as it would with flash on? (ex. Picture of christmas tree with lights off in room and no flash, but the shutter open for too long and causing it to blur)

About the only why this is going to work is to get a tripod. Or just a bean bag. Set the camera down on some suport and then set the self timer so the shutter trips while your hand is not bumping the camera. This will solve the blur you are seeing from camera shake.

In general, you can hand hold a shot up to 1/(lens focal length) so if the lens is set to 30mm you can hold a shot at 1/30th of a second. How to control the shutter - set the wheel to "shutter priority mode" then rotate the control wheel to 1/30th but there is almost certainly not enough light for a shot at that speed, so the about suggestion to use a tripod.

I think a basic photography book might be a good investment.

After reading the book you will know how to balance the light from the flash with ambient light and that likely want to bounce the flash off the back wall or ceiling

[ChrisA]

Well i set it to the 3 Box thing as my setting and it still didnt take a burst shot, am i doing something wrong here?

You aren't trying to take burst shots of a Christmas tree are you? The tree will wait will set up each shot. If you are then I bet the camera is refusing to do what it is told when it makes no sense, like if the shutter speed is very slow.

[KidneyPi]

3) What type of photo should i set it to (RAW? JPEG?)

I can't help with the first two questions. I'm a Canon user. As for your third question, this is the vi vs emacs holywar of photography. Use what is right for you. I mainly use RAW because it has more information in the file. With no compression, I'm free to adjust exposure and color at will in post. It is also possible to do single exposure HDR that looks good.

JPEG is great if you want speed and don't plan to do much post processing. It can introduce some image noise, but you have to hunt hard to find it in most cases. It drops the extra information that allows you to have exposure control in post so that it can be a smaller file.

You will find pros and amateurs in both camps. Use what is right for you. When I started, I used mainly JPEG. Today, I only use it if I need to quickly give the pictures to someone else and I won't have time to go through my workflow in Aperture.

[Jeremy!]

You can always put the D80 in auto with the flash off. Hold the flash button near the side of the lens down while you use the scroll wheel to select the crossed out flash icon on the top display. To get the most out of the D80 though, you really need to read the whole manual - trust me it is pretty boring, but necessary.

As far as the xmas tree shot, you could boost the ISO setting, but I really think the best is a slow exposure with a tripod etc. Do expect the overall color of the image to be skewed towards the color of the tree lights. You might want to try shooting with low light for a long exposure, and then turn the xmas tree lights on at the end of the exposure so you get the tree exposed nicely with the tree lights 'added' in at the end.

One thing that drives me nuts about the D80, is it's willingness to take over control. I suppose it is a necessary evil, but if you are in auto and AF, it will not take a photo if it does not know you are focused. So mess around with the burst mode with lots of light on a easy to focus image, like a distant landscape etc.

As far as what format, unless you are planning on doing a lot of messin' with the image after you take the shot .jpgs are fine.

[SLC Flyfishing]

That's another part of what steered me away from the D80, I like that the flash on my camera stays down unless I release it my self. There's no setting to change, it's just that way all the time.

SLC

[Westside guy]

That's another part of what steered me away from the D80, I like that the flash on my camera stays down unless I release it my self. There's no setting to change, it's just that way all the time.

If the D80 is like the D70, this "flash problem" only occurs in auto mode. Switch it to Program and it won't happen.

[compuwar]

OK i have a Nikon D80 and i have a couple questions if you guys can answer them.

1) How do I set it to no flash but have the shutter open and close as quick as it would with flash on? (ex. Picture of christmas tree with lights off in room and no flash, but the shutter open for too long and causing it to blur)

2) How do i set it to burst shot?

3) What type of photo should i set it to (RAW? JPEG?)

1) You can use "Shutter priority" (S on the command dial) if you want a specific shutter speed and to have the camera figure out the aperture, you can use Aperture priority (A) to do the opposite, or (M) to set both the aperture and shutter independently- however you're not likely to get a good exposure of the tree and the lights both without a long exposure on a tripod or stable surface because the tree in the dark room is going to be underexposed if you meter for the lights, and the lights will be overexposed if you meter for the tree. That's why you got the suggestion to expose the tree properly and turn the lights on for the last bit of the exposure- that's only easy to do if you get a multi-second exposure though.

Without the flash's light, if you set the camera the same as you would if you have flash, you're likely to end up with a mostly black picture.

2) Just in case you don't realize it, you have to hold the shutter button down in burst mode to get multiple exposures.

3) If you've got the space on your memory card, you can shoot raw+jpeg with one of the differing JPEG quality levels.

If you can't find your manual, you can get a copy online at:

http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/noprint/D80_noprint.pdf

You won't be able to take 3 bursts in a row if you can't get focus to lock. It also won't be able to do bursts if the shutter speed is slower than the lag between the shots.

Unless you're in continuous focus mode (AF-C) mode which doesn't have focus lock requirements.


That's another part of what steered me away from the D80, I like that the flash on my camera stays down unless I release it my self. There's no setting to change, it's just that way all the time.

SLC

According to page 40 of the D80 manual, you only get pop-up flash in full-auto, portrait, close-up and night portrait modes. Since those are basically all point and shoot modes I'd expect anyone who didn't want that behavior would simply use Program, Manual, Aperture-priority or Shutter-priority modes like all the other Nikon DSLRs with built-in flash or without the P&S modes.

Basically, Nikon took the P&S "beginner" settings of the D40 and the P/S/A/M "Normal" modes that Nikon's had since at least the early 90's on all their SLR cameras and put them all on the D80's function wheel. Presumably under the assumption that they'd be selling lots of D80's to first-time dSLR users or D40 users upgrading, both categories of users who might be at the "big point and shoot" skillset level. If you want "big P&S w/o the automatic flash" mode, it's P on the command dial.

[OreoCookie]

That's another part of what steered me away from the D80, I like that the flash on my camera stays down unless I release it my self. There's no setting to change, it's just that way all the time.
I'm afraid to say that you simply haven't invested enough time getting to know your camera. If you had changed the shooting mode from Auto (which is really for people that come from P&S cameras) to P, you would have to activate the flash manually. This also works in A, S, and M, obviously.

[SLC Flyfishing]

I'm afraid to say that you simply haven't invested enough time getting to know your camera. If you had changed the shooting mode from Auto (which is really for people that come from P&S cameras) to P, you would have to activate the flash manually. This also works in A, S, and M, obviously.

I've spent 10 months getting to know my camera (10,000 frames so far) what makes you assume I've not spent enough time getting to know it? I use a Pentax DSLR, it's flash is always activated manually even in the "auto" modes. Pentax knows that I'll activate the flash when I want it, (which is basically never) the camera never tries to spring up the flash on me when I'm not wanting it to do so. I admittedly didn't know that the D80 had a way of disabling this, but I like that my camera is set that way by default.

SLC

[OreoCookie]

I've spent 10 months getting to know my camera (10,000 frames so far) what makes you assume I've not spent enough time getting to know it?
The next sentence does (see below). You could have posted a thread or read the manual.
I admittedly didn't know that the D80 had a way of disabling this, but I like that my camera is set that way by default.
Then switch to P -- that's why P and Auto are different.

[termina3]

The next sentence does (see below). You could have posted a thread or read the manual.

Then switch to P -- that's why P and Auto are different.

Ah! There's been a confusion… stupid pronouns.

To clarify: whenever SLC says "my camera" he doesn't mean a D80; he means his Pexntax. Ergo, he knows his Pentax, but not the D80!

SLC: You understand where Oreo got confused?

[RaceTripper]

Get the book "Understanding Exposure." Once you understand the basics from that, knowing how to setup your camera will come to you much easier.

As for RAW vs. JPEG. A big advantage of RAW is that you can correct white balance problems very easily, while with JPEG your options are considerably less.

[OreoCookie]

Ah! There's been a confusion… stupid pronouns.

To clarify: whenever SLC says "my camera" he doesn't mean a D80; he means his Pexntax. Ergo, he knows his Pentax, but not the D80!

SLC: You understand where Oreo got confused?
The way I understood him, he exchanged his D80 in favor of a Pentax, because (to put it bluntly) he didn't know his D80. So I'm aware he uses a Pentax now, but I inferred he used to use a D80.

[SLC Flyfishing]

Nope I had a bag full of Nikon lenses, I went out to make my decision between the D80 and the D200 after being up to that point a Nikon shooter exclusively. My wife had a Pentax with only one cruddy lens, but she wanted the Nikon too, (because that's what the Pro's use :) ). Well I tried the Nikons out and was wholly unimpressed by both, they just seemed to lack anything to make them stand out compared to the other options I had. Then the camera salesman pointed out the K10D to me and upon shooting a few frames with it, and feeling it in our hands we both decided that this was the better camera for us. I've since been able to sell most of my Nikon glass (I've kept 2 lenses for use with an old F2 that I've still got), and now have some very nice Pentax gear. I've never been more happy with any of my other cameras, not even close, and this would be considered to be just a midlevel camera.

What still pleases me most about the K10D compared to the competition is the level of control that I have over the camera at all times. There is nothing automatic about it unless you set it that way. And instead of those chintzy scene modes that all the other DSLR's are afflicted with, I have an ISO priority mode and a Shutter/Aperture priority mode etc.

SLC

[OreoCookie]

What still pleases me most about the K10D compared to the competition is the level of control that I have over the camera at all times. There is nothing automatic about it unless you set it that way. And instead of those chintzy scene modes that all the other DSLR's are afflicted with, I have an ISO priority mode and a Shutter/Aperture priority mode etc.
All dslrs come with P, A, S and M, and have been for years. Nikon also has Auto ISO, so these are hardly things that make the K10D stand out. Everything is as manual as I want it to be. (Don't get me wrong, it is a nice camera with a very good price/performance.) I also wish Nikon and Canon would just get rid of these ridiculous scene modes (even the 40D has them!), I don't need this stuff, they just waste space on that shooting mode dial. But then again, I have never used them.

[termina3]

I also wish Nikon and Canon would just get rid of these ridiculous scene modes (even the 40D has them!), I don't need this stuff, they just waste space on that shooting mode dial. But then again, I have never used them.

Tell me about it! It's insane to have those options on the upper-end cameras.
Of course, there's also something to be said for trying to attract the "more $$$ = better picture" consumer crowd with money to burn.

[RaceTripper]

The Nikon D200 is a very controllable and configurable camera. It has Shutter, Aperture, and ISO priority, plus full manual mode. It doesn't have any of the preset modes at all. It also has many options for fine tuning. I love it. I shoot with a 17-55/2.8 DX, a 50/1.8D, and the 70-200/2.8 VR. I mostly shoot motorsports for which it works very well (AF with the 70-200 is wicked fast). Now I'm thinking about adding a D300 to my kit.

[OreoCookie]

Tell me about it! It's insane to have those options on the upper-end cameras.
Of course, there's also something to be said for trying to attract the "more $$$ = better picture" consumer crowd with money to burn.
Yup. I can understand if they decide to include them with entry-level models. But the D80 and especially the 40D are not entry-level models anymore! I have no use whatsoever for them and wish I could instead have custom settings memory slots or what not …*Plus, it confuses people into thinking, they have no control over what the camera does.

[SLC Flyfishing]

Nikon also has Auto ISO.

Yes but you misread my post, the K10D has ISO priority You can set the ISO you want to be shooting in, the camera selects the best aperture and shutter speed to to get you the proper exposure. As far as I know there aren't any other DSLR's anywhere on the market with this feature. It also has a multi exposure mode which I believe is unique to the camera, (I know the D80 didn't have it at least). I also don't remember the D80 having a dedicated RAW button which the K10D also has. I can be shooting jpeg, then switch to RAW just by pressing a small button (in the same spot as the bracket button on the D80) and then switch back when I feel like, all without taking the camera from my face.

Now admittedly, these extra features aren't necessarily things I'd make regular use of; but they do add to the whole experience overall. I guess I just appreciate that Pentax thinks of little things like this; it just goes to show that they have the end user in mind when they design a body, not just the performance specs that measurebation sites like DPreview.com swoon over.

The D80 is a great camera too don't get me wrong, there are tons of people who are very happy with them and for good reason. I'm just one of the few who was less than impressed, I'm very choosy about my equipment, that's also why I switched to Macintosh this year. If Pentax didn't have the K10D or something like it, and a bunch of bitchin' prime lenses (which I also prefer) I'd still be shooting Nikon, probably a D80 or D200. Nikon runs a close 2nd for me personally, it's not a knock, just a personal observation/experience, which is all I can contribute to these boards in the end right?

SLC

[OreoCookie]

Yes but you misread my post, the K10D has ISO priority You can set the ISO you want to be shooting in, the camera selects the best aperture and shutter speed to to get you the proper exposure.
Ok, thanks for the info. Doesn't sound particularly useful, though, it's essentially just a flavor of P -- a mode I only use when I hand the camera over to friends to take a snapshot. Automatic ISO and all this is not a match for the intelligence of a human being, that's just my opinion, though.
I also don't remember the D80 having a dedicated RAW button which the K10D also has. I can be shooting jpeg, then switch to RAW just by pressing a small button (in the same spot as the bracket button on the D80) and then switch back when I feel like, all without taking the camera from my face.
The D80 has a dedicated quality button left to the screen. You can toggle through the different modes by the dials.

Not that you get me wrong now: I think most of the `new' features on cameras these days are not really useful features. On the other hand, there are things, that aren't really features, but have a much more decided impact on usability and the overall `feel' to the camera. The AF has gotten so quick on even entry-level cameras, the metering so good, that you can't judge cameras by how well they meter anymore -- the differences are subtle and often boil down to a matter of taste. Entry-level dslrs can shoot at 3 fps -- more than enough for all I need. Anything above that is just for bragging rights ;)

I tried Sony's new alpha 700 last weekend, and I was pleasantly surprised. The sales rep (trying to pitch his lines) complimented me on `how well I found my way through the menus and the camera buttons' -- which isn't really difficult, considering it's a good UI design.
I haven't laid my hands on the K10D yet, but from the looks of it, I could instantly get acquainted with it, too. The only cameras that don't play nicely with my way of thinking are Canons. Canons and Oreos do not mix, apparently. If I had some cash lying around, I would be tempted by Olympus' E-3 as well. When I bought the D80, I started my lens collection from scratch again (my previous dslr, an Olympus E-20, had a fixed lens), so all options were on the table.

Congrats and enjoy your camera, though.

[compuwar]

Yes but you misread my post, the K10D has ISO priority You can set the ISO you want to be shooting in, the camera selects the best aperture and shutter speed to to get you the proper exposure. As far as I know there aren't any other DSLR's anywhere on the market with this feature. It also has a multi exposure mode which I believe is unique to the camera, (I know the D80 didn't have it at least).


"P" mode on any Nikon SLR/DSLR for at least the last 19 or so years has worked that way- you set the ISO, the camera picks the shutter speed and aperture. You can also rotate the command dial to override the camera's selection, and it'll move up or down in aperture, adjusting the shutter speed accordingly to keep the same exposure value. This has been true since at least the F-801 body release in 1988. so yes, the D80 actually does work that way- you can read about it on page 47 of the D80 manual referenced above. I recall on my 8008s it was actually labeled P with a subscripted D for Program, Dual. Now it's referenced as Prorammed Auto mode in the Nikon manuals.

I'm pretty sure Canon has a similar mode, though I've only shot them in aperture mode.

The D80 has a multiple exposure mode as well, covered on pages 84-85 of said manual.

[termina3]

pages 84-85 of said manual.

creepy… you know the manual page for page!

[compuwar]

creepy… you know the manual page for page!

Because I checked the PDF.

[JFreak]

How is this relevant? Of all digital cameras I have used the user can choose ISO or aperture or shutter speed and let the camera calculate the other two giving priority to either one. Or even simpler, choose two and calculate the third.

I see this as a non-issue.

[SLC Flyfishing]

"P" mode on any Nikon SLR/DSLR for at least the last 19 or so years has worked that way- you set the ISO, the camera picks the shutter speed and aperture. You can also rotate the command dial to override the camera's selection, and it'll move up or down in aperture, adjusting the shutter speed accordingly to keep the same exposure value. This has been true since at least the F-801 body release in 1988. so yes, the D80 actually does work that way- you can read about it on page 47 of the D80 manual referenced above. I recall on my 8008s it was actually labeled P with a subscripted D for Program, Dual. Now it's referenced as Prorammed Auto mode in the Nikon manuals.

I'm pretty sure Canon has a similar mode, though I've only shot them in aperture mode.

The D80 has a multiple exposure mode as well, covered on pages 84-85 of said manual.

Yeah, P mode is very widespread, I've got it on my wife's old Pentax 35 mm SLR too.

The P mode exists on the K10D as well, and it functions the exact same way as the P mode of the Nikon, and I suspect the Canons and Sonys and Olys too. But the K10D has a setting on it's top dial called Sv which is "sensitivity priority" this setting allows you to change ISO on the fly with a rotation of the rear e-dial, the front e-dial works like it was in aperture priority mode. Basically with this setting I can make a change to any aspect of an exposure without moving the camera from my eye, which is the point I'm trying to make about why I prefer the K10D to the D80.

There's also a fun setting called TAv which is really shutter priority and aperture priority at the same time, you use the front command dial when you want to pick a certain shutter speed, and the rear command dial when you want to be choosy about aperture. I know I know, manual does the same thing which is obviously true, but with the K10D I don't have to go full manual to do these sorts of things if I don't want to. It's nice to be able to switch from aperture to shutter priority mode simply by altering which command dial I use.

But to answer JFreak, yes it is largely a non issue. I was just attempting to explain some of the reasons I made the decision I did, which turned into some minor misunderstanding.

SLC

[compuwar]

The P mode exists on the K10D as well, and it functions the exact same way as the P mode of the Nikon, and I suspect the Canons and Sonys and Olys too. But the K10D has a setting on it's top dial called Sv which is "sensitivity priority" this setting allows you to change ISO on the fly with a rotation of the rear e-dial, the front e-dial works like it was in aperture priority mode.


I guess I'm missing something here- with the Nikon, you hit the ISO button and rotate the command dial and you change ISO- if you're in one of the program modes, everything else adjusts accordingly. So in aperture priority, the only difference is that you'd have to hit the ISO button with your left thumb otherwise, it's exactly the same command-dial-wise (Main for ISO, front for aperture.)


There's also a fun setting called TAv which is really shutter priority and aperture priority at the same time, you use the front command dial when you want to pick a certain shutter speed, and the rear command dial when you want to be choosy about aperture.


Again, I must be missing something- in either aperture or shutter priority mode going "up" or "down" changes both- if you're at 5.6 & 1/60, if you change the shutter to 1/125, you're going to f/4, if you change it to 1/30 you're going to f/8. What does changing dials get you that I'm not seeing? Are you essentially in manual mode and are actively changing the exposure value on only one component at a time?



But to answer JFreak, yes it is largely a non issue. I was just attempting to explain some of the reasons I made the decision I did, which turned into some minor misunderstanding.


To be fair, your bad information on the pop-up flash, getting out of auto-ISO mode and multiple exposures make it fairly easy to misinterpret your understanding of the differences between the bodies. A lot of times direct comparisons with misinformation tend to come off looking like an attempt to re-validate a choice in pure fanboy terms, especially when you go from trying to harp about the value of lots of modes to harping about the lack of an automatic flash mode as a positive.

My point however is that despite small ergonomic differences, pretty much all the dSLRs have pretty-much the same shooting features. Ergonomics are so subjective that it's not as transferable from one person to another- for instance, I prefer the ergonomics of Nikon to Canon, but others equally valuably prefer things the other way around. I can't imagine a scenario where I'd want a bump of the rear command dial to change ISO, and you probably can't imagine a scenario where you'd want to use your left thumb to change it- we can both come up with equal arguments for and against any feature's implementation.

With all that said, ergonomics are important. If Apple put a two-button mouse on their laptops, they'd probably increase sales by several percent.

[SLC Flyfishing]

The TAv mode I mentioned just works like aperture priority and shutter priority modes at the same time. The front e-dial controls shutter speed, and if you are in TAv mode rotation of the front e-dial selects shutter speeds while automatically adjusting the aperture to compensate. Then at the same time you can rotate the rear e-dial and it functions like it was in aperture priority mode, adjusting the aperture and automatically changing the shutter to compensate. It's just a clever little scene mode that can be used to have both shutter and aperture priority modes active at the exact same time, so you can decide which value you need to be choosy about without having stop and change shooting modes on the main dial.

And again, it seems that perhaps the only difference between these two is the amount of control one has over the K10D without having to dig into the menu etc, which is what I was most impressed with.

SLC

[OreoCookie]

The TAv mode I mentioned just works like aperture priority and shutter priority modes at the same time. The front e-dial controls shutter speed, and if you are in TAv mode rotation of the front e-dial selects shutter speeds while automatically adjusting the aperture to compensate.
Sounds like P on a Nikon (rather P with shift) which I have had on all my Nikon slrs (digital or otherwise). I'm not sure whether my Olympus E-20 had P shift, because I don't use P to take pictures. P will suggest a combination of shutter speed and aperture and you simply use the two dials to change either one of them.

[RaceTripper]

+1 for the ergonomics of the Nikon.

My D200 is very easy to use. Personally I'm glad it doesn't have all the special program modes. I mostly shoot either shutter priority (for motorsports) or aperture (for just about everything else), and I put it into P if I hand it to someone else. ISO is a breeze to change, and it even has a ISO priority mode (which I never use), but the ISO dial is a breeze to use anyway.

But damn, I wish I could get a D300....