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MacRumors
Oct 1, 2003, 03:14 PM
AppleInsider posts a rumor (http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=206) that the iPod may see a "proprietary headphone jack" to slim down the profile even further. A standard jack would be included on the remote.



Ambrose Chapel
Oct 1, 2003, 03:27 PM
i truly hope not. adding more wires just to be able to plug in decent headphones (headphone cable + remote cable) would just suck.

machan
Oct 1, 2003, 03:33 PM
to any apple designers/engineers reading this: A PROPRIETARY HEADPHONE JACK IS A TERRIBLE IDEA!!!!

g30ffr3y
Oct 1, 2003, 03:47 PM
second, third, forth and so on... APPLE DO NOT MAKE A PROPRIETARY HEADPHONE JACK... well, if you did, i just wouldnt update my 30gig til you realized how stupid an idea it was... the ipods form factor is fine... stop tweaking it... i dont need apple headphones my sony studio phones are great...

StealthRider
Oct 1, 2003, 03:55 PM
hear, hear!

ibilly
Oct 1, 2003, 04:27 PM
this is so stupid, a proprietary headphone jack would either require low-end users to buy a remote in order to use the ipod, or else they would have to include an other peice of hardware, making it more expensive for a few millimeters of slimming... Bad idea, who ever came up with it. :rolleyes:

bennetsaysargh
Oct 1, 2003, 04:42 PM
i concur that its a bad idea. i think if they were to do that, people wuld get pissed. its small enough! all you need and can add it bigger HDs and newer features to keep the people happy.
yeesh:rolleyes:

robeen
Oct 1, 2003, 04:53 PM
I concur - this would be a terrible idea. The headphone socket doesn't seem to limit the thickness of the ipod anyway - surely that must be the size of the hard drive?

Plus - what happens when the remote breaks (mine is already fraying)? Buy a new one insead of just popping the headphones in?

Anyway - this can't happen - Apple is all about open standards, and silly headphone jacks is contrary to that philosophy.

Rob

azdude
Oct 1, 2003, 05:18 PM
I agree with all comments here.

NO PROPRIETARY HEADPHONE JACK.

Primary reasons have been stated already... but I have another:

What happens to the already *humble* battery life when you slim the iPod MORE!?!?

Don't do it!

sivartris
Oct 1, 2003, 05:38 PM
I would think Apple would not do this:

1. The iPod would have to be very slim indeed to not fit a standard 1/8 inch jack.

2. It would most likely add to the production cost (less profit).

3. A lot of people would be angry.

SeaFox
Oct 1, 2003, 05:42 PM
I really wouldn't have a problem with this were it as easy to buy short corded headphones in the US as it is in Japan.

One good side effect is Apple would be required to include remotes with all iPods then. Unless they decide to include special headphones with the new plug with the low end iPod. That would suck.

danielgrenell
Oct 1, 2003, 06:31 PM
slimmer is better, but i think people like the freedom to plug in their own headphones

medea
Oct 1, 2003, 06:32 PM
this probably won't happen, the headphone jack is used for things other than just headphones, I use it to hook my iPod up to both my home stereo and to my car stereo, would I have to pay for an expensive proprietary aux cable as well?
Well actually that is a possibility, Apple could just release other proprietary extra's like said cable, so maybe it will happen.....I guess in the end, for me at least, it comes down to how much smaller will this actually make the ipod, if a proprietary jack partnered with some new HD they have ready will result in a 80gig thin as a credit card iPod then I'm all for it, wouldn't you be?

edit: of course I know the above is not going to be the case....

bennetsaysargh
Oct 1, 2003, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by danielgrenell
slimmer is better, but i think people like the freedom to plug in their own headphones that would be the thing.

i just got an idea. how about apple releases a set of retractable iPod earbuds?

i could be very useful for me because it seems weather they're in my pocket for 5 minutes, or 5 hours, it's just as tangled.

ibilly
Oct 1, 2003, 08:52 PM
so do we all agree, unless it's significantly slimmer, moone would want a proprietary jack? I mean is ther any one who'd be for it if it was only like .1" slimmer?

ELYXR
Oct 1, 2003, 09:10 PM
Apple should be investing in Bluetooth headphones and integrating a Bluetooth chip in the iPod for syncing contacts, transfering files, etc. I hate it when my iPod headphone wires snag on a chair or railing. The earphones rip right out of my ears. :mad:

Surely Bluetooth, being a digital connection, could provide a high fidelity signal regardless of the slow-ish transfer rate. Any thoughts?

Exponent
Oct 1, 2003, 09:21 PM
I got a 30 GB iPod, and have connected it smartly into the interior of my car. (For those looking for a good place to mount a dock in their car, a removable ashtray makes a great location. Basically, I carefully sawed apart and painted my dock, mounted it on shock insulating rubber, and put it into the ashtray hole. For the power and signal, I used the Belkin car adaptor and a PIE cd-changer interface.

You know what I'd really like on an iPod?

1. An on/off switch. It isn't obvious at all that pressing and holding play/pause should turn the unit off. At the very least, put a label on top of the play/pause button to indicate the dual functionality.

2. A random button. It irks me no end that control of the random function is buried so deeply into a rarely used menu structure.

(3. A published protocol so that when my car stereo turns off, my iPod automatically pauses and turns off. But that may be a tall task....)

Analog Kid
Oct 1, 2003, 09:25 PM
Really bad idea... I'm not sure where you'll find a hard drive less than an eighth inch thick anyway...

I guess if Apple goes this way, there's always the new Dell DJ... :rolleyes:

gopher
Oct 1, 2003, 10:29 PM
Yuck. I agree with many here. A proprietary jack is a BAD idea. I never listen to earbuds since they never give me enough audio. They call those earbuds fancy, and maybe they are for earbuds, but they constantly fall out of my ears.

NavyIntel007
Oct 2, 2003, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by ELYXR
Apple should be investing in Bluetooth headphones and integrating a Bluetooth chip in the iPod for syncing contacts, transfering files, etc. I hate it when my iPod headphone wires snag on a chair or railing. The earphones rip right out of my ears. :mad:

Surely Bluetooth, being a digital connection, could provide a high fidelity signal regardless of the slow-ish transfer rate. Any thoughts?

Bluetooth would neither support stereo sound (it has half the bandwidth needed for stereo) nor fast enough file transfer to even make it worth the engineering and extra cost.

SeaFox
Oct 2, 2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by ibilly
so do we all agree, unless it's significantly slimmer, moone would want a proprietary jack? I mean is ther any one who'd be for it if it was only like .1" slimmer?

I agree. Who would want the iPod slimmer anyways. The battery life was bad when it first came out. The new ones are just pitiful.

I don't see headphone jack thickness being any sort of real issue when it comes to making the iPod slimmer. It's just a great excuse to force people to buy Apple headphones.

What the iPod needs is a line-in and full recording capability more than anything.

SeaFox
Oct 2, 2003, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by Exponent
You know what I'd really like on an iPod?

1. An on/off switch. It isn't obvious at all that pressing and holding play/pause should turn the unit off. At the very least, put a label on top of the play/pause button to indicate the dual functionality.


Kinda reminds you of the UI logic flaw of going to the 'Start' button to turn off a Windows PC, eh?

SeaFox
Oct 2, 2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Bluetooth would neither support stereo sound (it has half the bandwidth needed for stereo) nor fast enough file transfer to even make it worth the engineering and extra cost.

Not to mention it's a real battery drain.

macnews
Oct 2, 2003, 07:38 AM
Just in case any Apple people are reading this, I am putting in my two cents about proprietary headphone jacks.... BAD idea. One of the GREAT things I love about my iPod is how functional it is with other speakers. This has allowed me to use many different headphones, hook it up to my home stereo, plus use my old PC altec lansing speakers (circa 1996) with a decent bass/speaker system. All this via the current headphone jack. A proprietary jack would take all this away or require an adapter. If most people end up buying an adapter to fit their favorite headphones that would make the reduction in size null and void.

iPC
Oct 2, 2003, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by robeen
I concur - this would be a terrible idea. The headphone socket doesn't seem to limit the thickness of the ipod anyway - surely that must be the size of the hard drive?

Plus - what happens when the remote breaks (mine is already fraying)? Buy a new one insead of just popping the headphones in?

Anyway - this can't happen - Apple is all about open standards, and silly headphone jacks is contrary to that philosophy.

Rob
Apple is about using open standards to their benefit. That does not imply support of open standards. (think about the clone wars)

FlamDrag
Oct 2, 2003, 09:38 AM
Just to play devils advocate - I doubt that it would make things MORE expensive for Apple as they would likely (in my guess) simply eliminate the 1/8" jack and keep the current dock port at the bottom. HP's would simply plug into the existing dock technology. So in true apple form, they'd be simplifying the iPod.

Conversely, they'd have to make (although this shouldn't be difficult considering their existing part structure) headphones to do this.

What I think IS a good idea is to make FireWire headphones which would work with all Macs with a firewire port (with a software update - sure that could work :))

FireWire should (maybe, I'm not a techno-nut to say for sure) provide similar benefits to USB sound. That is to say less noise and a clearer sound. It's possible that dockPhones(TM) :) could accomplish the same.

Although, it's likely that the addition of a firewire port would not save any space at all.

neilw
Oct 2, 2003, 09:40 AM
Proprietary headphone jack = horrible idea.

Originally posted by Exponent
I got a 30 GB iPod, and have connected it smartly into the interior of my car.

Pictures?


You know what I'd really like on an iPod?

2. A random button. It irks me no end that control of the random function is buried so deeply into a rarely used menu structure.


Totally agreed. Doesn't necessarily need a separate button per se; some way of turning random on or off quickly via the existing buttons would be fine.


3. A published protocol so that when my car stereo turns off, my iPod automatically pauses and turns off. But that may be a tall task....)

All they need is an option in the iPod to automatically pause and/or turn off when external power is removed, since that would already work with the Belkin adaptor. Simple. I agree it would be nice; I have to remember to manually pause my iPod whenever I turn the car off.

Option to turn off isn't really needed, actually, since it'll turn itself off once it's paused.

drjekyl
Oct 2, 2003, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by ELYXR
Apple should be investing in Bluetooth headphones and integrating a Bluetooth chip in the iPod for syncing contacts, transfering files, etc. I hate it when my iPod headphone wires snag on a chair or railing. The earphones rip right out of my ears. :mad:

Surely Bluetooth, being a digital connection, could provide a high fidelity signal regardless of the slow-ish transfer rate. Any thoughts?


I may be way off on this, I haven't seen the specs on Bluetooth, But I don't think that bluetooth has the ability to cary audio (music) with high quality. Not yet anyway. If you were o.k. with your music sounding muffled and crappy like a cell-phone conversation then it could work.

FlamDrag
Oct 2, 2003, 10:57 AM
I don't really expect the next generation of iPods to have any set button areas at all. just a smooth white surface with a backlit area that contextually changes as needed. This might allow for customizeable controls much like toolbars are now in most applications.

Awimoway
Oct 2, 2003, 01:28 PM
Why is Apple so hell-bent on slimming the iPod? They just sacrificed 2 hours of battery time to slim down the 2nd generation--two hours that I wouldn't trade my older iPod for. I mean, it's not like it's some kind of unwieldy brick to begin with. Even the originals are a beautifully slim package for what they offer.

I applaud Apple for always strivng to do better, but this slimming business seems to only be making it worse. Actually, I really doubt this last story is true. The remotes are awful. They feel cheap and they make your headphone cord so insanely long that it's almost unusable.

rueyeet
Oct 2, 2003, 02:08 PM
If a proprietary headphone jack would mean I had to use the Apple remote before I could plug in my own headphones, I wouldn't buy an iPod with that "feature". I use Sony noise-reduction headphones on the bus, and never ever use the Apple remote.

The remote just isn't THAT cool that it should be a required element of iPod usage. Period.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 2, 2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Awimoway
I applaud Apple for always strivng to do better, but this slimming business seems to only be making it worse. Actually, I really doubt this last story is true. The remotes are awful. They feel cheap and they make your headphone cord so insanely long that it's almost unusable.

I disagree.

I carry my iPod in a pouch on the chest strap of my TiBag, connect the remote to the pocket seam of my pants, and the headphones reach easily to my ears.

Perfect solution.

Now when the iPod is clipped to my waist, there's a little more excess wire, but that's better than not enough cable.

heeeraldo
Oct 2, 2003, 04:34 PM
headphone jacks:
the only piece of portable audio equipment with a proprietary headphone jack I've ever seen is the Sony MZ-E10 (click here for info). (http://minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-E10.html)
Even then, it came with both an adapter for use without the remote.

the thing that I don't get is how thin Apple wants to make the iPod - the E10 is 9.9mm thick, so a 1/8th inch jack is an impossibility; certainly not the case with any foreseeable iPods. Unless there's a sudden size drop in hard drives, or a switch to high-capacity removable media.

remote issues:
being a minidisc user (for now, anyway), I'm familiar with remotes. Easiest way to get around it is to buy a pair of short-cord headphones from audiocubes (http://www.audiocubes.com/), so that the remote falls just above the waist with the unit in my pocket (I'm 5'10"), and I can clip it to my shirt. Or the zipper on my fleece. Or the strap of my bag. You get the idea.

EDIT: I forgot the word "pocket"

rt_brained
Oct 3, 2003, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by Macrumors
AppleInsider posts a rumor (http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=206) that the iPod may see a "proprietary headphone jack" to slim down the profile even further. A standard jack would be included on the remote.
Yeahriiight <laughing>. I guess the next thing you're going to tell me is that they're developing a "proprietary charging device" for the iPod.

Can you believe the things some people say for attention around here?

Snowy_River
Oct 3, 2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by gopher
Yuck. I agree with many here. A proprietary jack is a BAD idea. I never listen to earbuds since they never give me enough audio. They call those earbuds fancy, and maybe they are for earbuds, but they constantly fall out of my ears.

I'm not sure what you mean by not giving you enough audio. I have a pair of Panasonic earbuds that I think are the best earphones I've ever used. They provide an incredible sense of surround sound and audio depth. Now, I'll grant that they aren't quite the same as a nice pair of professional level headphones, but no earphones will be. So, I don't quite see what you have against earbuds...

Originally posted by FlamDrag
...
What I think IS a good idea is to make FireWire headphones which would work with all Macs with a firewire port
...

Just a technical comment. From my understanding of FireWire, I don't think that this is very practically feasible. FireWire requires a controller on each end, unlike USB. This makes it a powerful standard for some things, but to try to have an integrated controller in a pair of earphones would be impractical, at best...

bennetsaysargh
Oct 3, 2003, 02:02 PM
a FW headphone wouldn't be good at all. almost all iPod cases have been made for the standard headphone jack. it's already bad enough they screwed case makers for a bit with the touch buttons, but if they were to do this, having a pair of your own headphones would be impossible.

themadchemist
Oct 3, 2003, 03:26 PM
With Apple always chiming on about standards, it would be incredibly hypocritical for this to occur. However, I think I could imagine Apple doing this to slim down the profile EVEN MORE. I think it is slim enough, perhaps too slim. I liked the original size the best. I kind of think that the current offering is too slim as it is.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 3, 2003, 03:34 PM
The current design is slim enough. I think that they couldn't possibly slim it down so much that a 1/8 inch headphone jack would be too big, unless they made it less than 1/8 inch thick.

damax452
Oct 4, 2003, 05:32 PM
Seems like a bad idea...I wasn't too thrilled w/ the proprietary dock connector either but I got used to it. The headphone connector is going too far. When in doubt, stick to standards Apple. Standard ports/plugs are essential to making a good and useable electronic device.

However, if they revamped the remote and made it lighter, smaller, and easier to clip to things i wouldnt mind using it inline with my headphones.

zach
Oct 4, 2003, 09:58 PM
While I'm pretty sure we won't see these proprietary jacks, I am guessing we will see a proprietary wireless standard from Apple.

A proprietary wireless audio standard would allow Apple to design good wireless headphones, and not have to use any headphone jack.

applekid
Oct 5, 2003, 04:07 PM
What if it mean we'd finally get wireless headphones?

Bluetooth is highly unlikely and wireless headphones in general is impossible (Have you ever seen a wireless headphone that doesn't connect to the RCA jacks? Have you seen one that doesn't use a charger?).

timothyjoelwrig
Oct 5, 2003, 08:49 PM
I, for one, don't think a propritary jack would be a bad idea. There are two assumptions that msot commentors seem to be making.

A: A proprietary jack would force you to use only Apple headphones. I was under the impression that the remote plugged into the new jack and you could plug whatever you wanted into the remote. Doesn't sound horrible to me.

B: Apple will always use hard drives as a storage medium. There are many reasonably priced storage mediums that are much smaller than a hard drive, and with their prices dropping as most technology does, would it be so difficult to think that maybe Apple would consider CompactFlash (already at 4GB) or something else once capacity and price allow them to use a much smaller form factor? Not to mention solid state memory mediums typically use less power.

IMHO, it would seem a minor inconvenience to plug my headphones into a remote if my iPod were the size of a matchbook. That's of course not to say that that will be happening anytime soon.

- TJW

robeen
Oct 6, 2003, 10:27 AM
A: A proprietary jack would force you to use only Apple headphones. I was under the impression that the remote plugged into the new jack and you could plug whatever you wanted into the remote. Doesn't sound horrible to me.


The wires on my remote are already frayed - so I would have no sound just because of my remote - no thanks! Plus: the headphone jack is about 1/8 of an inch across - its not even limiting anything yet!!

Your other comments on using the new high capacity solid state memory are good though - and I agree. Samsung seems to be expanding their memory chips at a fast rate.

Rob