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MacRumors
Dec 19, 2007, 11:07 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

New reports (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/AFX-0013-21766181.htm) have suggested that Apple is in talks with DoCoMo to bring the iPhone to Japan.

Tech.co.uk (http://www.tech.co.uk/gadgets/phones/mobile-phones/news/3g-iphone-looks-nailed-on-for-japan?articleid=458650490) claims that this must mean a 3G iPhone is in the works as there is no EDGE network in Japan:
Wherever the iPhone ends up in Japan, it means one thing - it has to be a 3G model, as there simply is no GSM network in the country. Suggestions of a new model with a CDMA chip of some sort appearing late in 2008 suddenly seem so much more believable.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2007/12/19/3g-iphone-in-japan/)



koobcamuk
Dec 19, 2007, 11:08 AM
I hope they go for Softbank. Docomo is dying.

crackermac
Dec 19, 2007, 11:29 AM
If it's CDMA, would that work on Verizon's CDMA network here?

plumbingandtech
Dec 19, 2007, 11:50 AM
Make sense to me.

Re: CDMA, I think there are multiple flavors, maybe someone can chime in, my guess (just a guess) would be their CDMA is different and not compatible as every iphone / mobile phone rollout I have seen shows CDMA only being in the US. (at least out flavor.)

Mal
Dec 19, 2007, 11:53 AM
If it's CDMA, would that work on Verizon's CDMA network here?

No. Japan CDMA network is not like our CDMA network here. I don't know all the juicy details, but Japanese and American phones aren't even close to interchangeable, and won't use the same networks.

jW

cmcconkey
Dec 19, 2007, 11:53 AM
It would be nice it it would be a version of CDMA that works in the states. The only thing is that Verizon's servers wouldn't work with the Visual VoiceMail. I have a feeling that we will not see a CDMA version of the iPhone, ever. I think that I remember reading somewhere that Verizon is going to be replacing CDMA with some version of GSM in the not too distant future. We will just have to wait and see.

Christopher

nbs2
Dec 19, 2007, 11:59 AM
Re: CDMA, I think there are multiple flavors, maybe someone can chime in, my guess (just a guess) would be their CDMA is different and not compatible as every iphone / mobile phone rollout I have seen shows CDMA only being in the US. (at least out flavor.)

From my understanding, the big difference between the Japanese CDMA and Verizon is that Verizon is operating at a significantly slower speed and data is handled somewhat differently. I THINK (and don't quote me on it, and don't get mad if I'm wrong) that something released in the US would have an easier time being transitioned for Japanese use than the opposite way, perhaps with minimal effort. For bring something from Japan would be futile and would require a pretty thorough overhaul of the device. I think.

slicecom
Dec 19, 2007, 12:46 PM
An entire country with no EDGE and only 3G coverage? What a beautiful thought!

samab
Dec 19, 2007, 12:51 PM
From my understanding, the big difference between the Japanese CDMA and Verizon is that Verizon is operating at a significantly slower speed and data is handled somewhat differently.

Nope, the only difference between Japanese and American CDMA is that the RF channels are reverse (our uplink channel is their downlink channel and vice versa)--- thus phones are incompatible.

I hope they go for Softbank. Docomo is dying.

All the news about Softbank winning the most number of subscribers are just simple accounting tricks. Both DoCoMo and KDDI use 3 months inactivity as the standard to kill off the inactive subscribers from their accounting books. Softbank keeps inactive subscribers for 12 months on their accounting books.

http://wirelesswatch.jp/2006/12/06/softbank-mobile-subscriber-stats/

The only carrier that is in good shape in Japan is KDDI.

TEG
Dec 19, 2007, 01:51 PM
Japan uses Several 3G systems, including W-CDMA and CDMA2000. W-CDMA is the underlining technology for GSM 3G, usually UTMS (which is what at&t Mobility 3G is) however NTT's FOMA uses a different wrapper than UTMS (HSUPA/HSDPA). CDMA2000 is commonly known in the US as EV-DO, which is the 3G version of CDMA. With any luck the iPhone 3G will use W-CDMA since it is most likely going to be the world-wide standard for 3G. It will also be a very small hardware change to use the 3G iPhone in Japan (perhaps the hardware will be in all versions to allow for operation in Japan for roming.)

TEG

Llewellyn
Dec 19, 2007, 01:52 PM
Although the Japanese iPhone, as said earlier, won't work on US networks, a version of this iPhone could be released in Canada. With Rogers being the only GSM network in Canada Apple has not had a lot of leverage in getting the terms they want. A CDMA phone, now mass produced for the Japanese market, would give Apple two other major providers, Telus and Bell, with whom to negotiate with. This could either pressure Rogers into accepting Apples terms for the GSM iPhone, or Telus or Bell would have a crack at a CDMA iPhone. Either way Apple wins.

koobcamuk
Dec 19, 2007, 01:55 PM
The only carrier that is in good shape in Japan is KDDI.

True, but I like the Sharp handsets offered by Softbank and they're the only ones to allow prepaid.

slicecom
Dec 19, 2007, 02:01 PM
Although the Japanese iPhone, as said earlier, won't work on US networks, a version of this iPhone could be released in Canada. With Rogers being the only GSM network in Canada Apple has not had a lot of leverage in getting the terms they want. A CDMA phone, now mass produced for the Japanese market, would give Apple two other major providers, Telus and Bell, with whom to negotiate with. This could either pressure Rogers into accepting Apples terms for the GSM iPhone, or Telus or Bell would have a crack at a CDMA iPhone. Either way Apple wins.

Good point. I'd gladly switch from rogers to whatever company gets the iphone in Canada. :D

samab
Dec 19, 2007, 02:05 PM
Although the Japanese iPhone, as said earlier, won't work on US networks, a version of this iPhone could be released in Canada. With Rogers being the only GSM network in Canada Apple has not had a lot of leverage in getting the terms they want. A CDMA phone, now mass produced for the Japanese market, would give Apple two other major providers, Telus and Bell, with whom to negotiate with. This could either pressure Rogers into accepting Apples terms for the GSM iPhone, or Telus or Bell would have a crack at a CDMA iPhone. Either way Apple wins.

It doesn't work that way.

Both DoCoMo and Softbank use WCDMA/HSDPA (which is the same as Rogers). KDDI uses EV-DO (which is the same as Bell and Telus).

And Apple is only negotiating with DoCoMo and Softbank right now. KDDI is in such a good shape that they can do a Verizon and not even bother to negotiate with Apple.

yoyo5280
Dec 19, 2007, 03:37 PM
Please not DoCoMo. I will switch to AU from softbank (or even better they can keep it on softbank) But not DoCoMo.

Why? Besides the fact(s) that I just don't like it (haha) and that its image is completely different to apple;s, I feel it is not Gaijin friendly. I don't know a single Gaijin on DoCoMo.

Gaijin in Japan are a big audience for the iPhone Japan i think.

BiikeMike
Dec 19, 2007, 04:12 PM
I should totally get credit for Posting this yesterday (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=402308)


:D

Llewellyn
Dec 19, 2007, 04:16 PM
It doesn't work that way.

Both DoCoMo and Softbank use WCDMA/HSDPA (which is the same as Rogers). KDDI uses EV-DO (which is the same as Bell and Telus).

And Apple is only negotiating with DoCoMo and Softbank right now. KDDI is in such a good shape that they can do a Verizon and not even bother to negotiate with Apple.

Yeah, I've been reading a lot more since viewing some of the post here. It's a lot more complicated than the layman would guess. However the fact that Apple is willing to make different iPhones with differing technology specific for individual markets still presents the possibility of a different kind of iPhone for Canada. Its just far less likely than I had hoped in my initial post.

samab
Dec 19, 2007, 04:46 PM
Yeah, I've been reading a lot more since viewing some of the post here. It's a lot more complicated than the layman would guess. However the fact that Apple is willing to make different iPhones with differing technology specific for individual markets still presents the possibility of a different kind of iPhone for Canada. Its just far less likely than I had hoped in my initial post.

It still won't make much of a difference anyway.

Rogers are making tons of money on quad bundling and the only GSM carrier in Canada. Telus is a CDMA carrier that is quite financially sound. Bell Mobility is a CDMA carrier that is the weakest player.

Rogers and Telus can say no to Apple's demands and not even bother to negotiate with Apple at all. Bell Mobility is weak enough to negotiate with Apple if they were using the right technology. But the problem is that Apple needs to play 2 carriers against each other to get the exclusive --- and 2 out of the 3 Canadian carriers are strong to enough to not even bother to negotiate with Apple.

In order for Apple to extract the kind of money from the exclusive contract --- you really need 2 carriers that are weak and insecure, but Canada doesn't have 2 weak carriers.

MrSmith
Dec 19, 2007, 05:15 PM
I heard the Softbank guy was a buddy of SJ, or there was some connection with Apple?? Anyway, I've been on J-Phone/Vodafone/Softbank for ever so I'm hoping it goes that way. Can't say I'm interested in any of the acronyms being bounded about above. It's all Greek to me. :confused:

TXCraig
Dec 19, 2007, 06:16 PM
Am I reading something wrong? The article says there needs to be an 3G iPhone before it can be sold in Japan.. then it says in the next sentence there is no GSM service in Japan... correct me if I'm wrong but if you have no GSM service... a 3G phone would be worthless....

The other think I find funny is that there is GSM service in Japan- so I question the article having any truth to it at all..

I have been to Japan with my iPhone and it worked just fine... data and voice....

Roaming:
Calls Placed/Received
While in Japan
AT&T Standard International Roaming $2.29
AT&T World Traveler $1.69
AT&T Canada $2.29
AT&T Mexico $2.29
Data Usage: All GPRS pay per use rates are $.0195/KB
Text, Picture and
Video Messages:
Send Text Message $0.50 per message sent
Send Picture and Video Messages $1.30 per message sent
Receive Text, Picture and Video Messages Home pay-per-use or package rates apply to all text, picture or video messages received when roaming internationally. Please visit www.att.com for details.

jonny
Dec 19, 2007, 07:20 PM
It still won't make much of a difference anyway.

Rogers are making tons of money on quad bundling and the only GSM carrier in Canada. Telus is a CDMA carrier that is quite financially sound. Bell Mobility is a CDMA carrier that is the weakest player.

Rogers and Telus can say no to Apple's demands and not even bother to negotiate with Apple at all. Bell Mobility is weak enough to negotiate with Apple if they were using the right technology. But the problem is that Apple needs to play 2 carriers against each other to get the exclusive --- and 2 out of the 3 Canadian carriers are strong to enough to not even bother to negotiate with Apple.

In order for Apple to extract the kind of money from the exclusive contract --- you really need 2 carriers that are weak and insecure, but Canada doesn't have 2 weak carriers.

which is why we have to unlock and not bother with getting R'ed for crap data plans... i seriously wish i could hork a loogie in ted rogers face. that would make me very happy.

(L)
Dec 19, 2007, 07:32 PM
Hmmm.... In Japan, however, the keitai (cell phone) demand being so strong and so varied (anyone who walks has a cell phone), if the iPhone does find much of a niche, I feel it will be a small one. For example, youths enjoying TV functionality or high quality camera phones or other such niche features already would see the iPhone as interesting but in many ways a downgrade, since it will not do what they are used to doing. Users of simpler phones will see it as complex and flashy and gimmicky, whether or not that is true.

Also, the Japanese text conversion software in the iPhone must be as good or better than that in other phones to be taken seriously. Judging from Apple's less than desirable text conversion in Mac OS X, this is not likely to be found.

My guess is that the iPhone will be more of a Mac fan thing, since though it's great in America, there's a lot more to surviving the cell phone market in Japan than whether or not you can convert the network hardware. That's just the bare necessity. Without a competitive text conversion software, it will be a joke.

(L)
Dec 19, 2007, 07:40 PM
Please not DoCoMo. I will switch to AU from softbank (or even better they can keep it on softbank) But not DoCoMo.

Why? Besides the fact(s) that I just don't like it (haha) and that its image is completely different to apple;s, I feel it is not Gaijin friendly. I don't know a single Gaijin on DoCoMo.

Gaijin in Japan are a big audience for the iPhone Japan i think.

Many gaijin (well, wealthy Western gaijin) might buy it, but all together that's not a very big audience. And I'd agree - DoCoMo is not the right answer. AU was the best choice, in my opinion... for the satisfaction rate and (at least an image of) user friendliness. And Softbank seems fitting. But DoCoMo? If it were a simple matter of choosing, AU is the one that people would be willing to switch to, I think.

Whichever carrier though, it could easily turn out to be an American, 'gaijin thing' if you will, and thus maybe AU isn't interested.

sushi
Dec 19, 2007, 07:41 PM
My vote would go for DoCoMo.

They definitely have the best coverage in Japan.

Next choice would be AU.

TEG
Dec 19, 2007, 08:17 PM
Am I reading something wrong? The article says there needs to be an 3G iPhone before it can be sold in Japan.. then it says in the next sentence there is no GSM service in Japan... correct me if I'm wrong but if you have no GSM service... a 3G phone would be worthless....

The other think I find funny is that there is GSM service in Japan- so I question the article having any truth to it at all..


As I said above the network is not EDGE (nor GSM 2G), it is W-CDMA which is GSM 3G. The only difference between the W-CDMA used in Japan on DoCoMo and the W-CDMA used on at&t, T-Mobile, Vodaphone, or Rogers is the way the data is encoded. The antennas would work and as long as the firmware on the phone talked FOMA it would work in Japan, and if it spoke UTMS(HSDPA/HSUPA) it would work everywhere else.

Now I do believe that there is an older GSM 2G system in Japan, but it is mostly for international roamers, and no new phones are sold that operate on it (except for special international phones).

TEG

mavis
Dec 20, 2007, 01:11 AM
Whichever carrier though, it could easily turn out to be an American, 'gaijin thing' if you will, and thus maybe AU isn't interested.

I think it's more of a "Non-Japanese = inferior" mentality than anything else. Think about it: how many foreign-made phones have you seen AU selling? I could be way off base here, but I don't recall EVER seeing a Motorola or Nokia sold by AU. This is in contrast to DoCoMo and Softbank, who have throughout the years offered various phones other than the stock Sharp/Panasonic/Toshiba/NEC cookie-cutter crap everyone shoves down our throats.

In any case, I believe the iPhone will do very well here for the simple reason that it blows away ANY Japanese phone in terms of usability and coolness. I mean, the people who see my hacked Touch are astounded when they see me flipping through pics, using coverflow, and typing emails at 40 words per minute. Which of course brings us to what has already been mentioned a few times: the iPhone and iPod Touch right now are TERRIBLE for Japanese input. My J-friends with Touches all complain about how difficult it is to input kana/kanji - the predictive entry method works fine (albeit slow) but the conversion choices are VERY small and therefore difficult to press. Apple needs to do something to address Japanese input methods on the iPhone, or else it will be a tremendous flop. (except for me and my fellow gaijin, who will line up to buy one on launch day) ... hehe

ob81
Dec 20, 2007, 02:20 AM
The Japanese love Apple over here in Japan. The iTouch is selling extremely well, and everytime I am in Shibuya people want to talk about the iPhone. Don't know who will pick it up, but it will be a hit. Can't freaking wait.

ob81
Dec 20, 2007, 02:24 AM
My vote would go for DoCoMo.

They definitely have the best coverage in Japan.

Next choice would be AU.


DoCoMo sucks. on paper they are availiable in a lot of areas, but the signals you get in these areas is so terrible that it isn't worth using them

sushi
Dec 20, 2007, 04:02 AM
DoCoMo sucks. on paper they are availiable in a lot of areas, but the signals you get in these areas is so terrible that it isn't worth using them
Where, for example?

Personally I like DoCoMo. It's not the cheapest. But I usually have reception when my AU and Vodaphone using friends do not. This is especially true in outlying areas away from the bigger cities which is important to me.

AU would be fine as well.

Each year all providers seem to get better. When I had my first cell phone about 13 years ago, coverage was really limited.

JapanScott
Dec 20, 2007, 07:32 AM
As for the (Japanese market) iPhone being a World Traveler.... is could be possible. I have a Nokia 6630 from (J-Phone ->Vodafone->) SoftBank. It is a quad-band phone. 3 GSM and 1 CDMA. I have made calls in Hawaii, Ohio, Singapore and Malaysia. Hopefully Apple will tuck something similiar into the iPhone.
My big fear is the service plan. I hope SoftBank, Docomo or whomever can come up with a decent plan that includes data usage. My banker (wife) won't go for if there isn't a cheap plan. (life sucks)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_6630

sushi
Dec 20, 2007, 07:55 AM
As for the (Japanese market) iPhone being a World Traveler.... is could be possible. I have a Nokia 6630 from (J-Phone ->Vodafone->) SoftBank. It is a quad-band phone. 3 GSM and 1 CDMA. I have made calls in Hawaii, Ohio, Singapore and Malaysia. Hopefully Apple will tuck something similiar into the iPhone.
My big fear is the service plan. I hope SoftBank, Docomo or whomever can come up with a decent plan that includes data usage. My banker (wife) won't go for if there isn't a cheap plan. (life sucks)
Being able to use the iPhone world wide would definitely improve it's acceptance.

All three companies, DoCoMo, AU and SoftBank have multiband options.

I hope that the Japan model will work in more areas than just Japan. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Who knows, maybe someday there will be a world wide standard for cell phones in both frequency and system used.

Aaargh!
Dec 20, 2007, 08:10 AM
Am I reading something wrong? The article says there needs to be an 3G iPhone before it can be sold in Japan.. then it says in the next sentence there is no GSM service in Japan... correct me if I'm wrong but if you have no GSM service... a 3G phone would be worthless....
No, UMTS / HSDPA is not GSM, it's meant to be the successor to GSM but technically it's completely different.

emotion
Dec 20, 2007, 08:10 AM
Who knows, maybe someday there will be a world wide standard for cell phones in both frequency and system used.

Some phone manufacturers think that standard will be wimax.

iSamurai
Dec 20, 2007, 08:18 AM
phones sold in japan wont work else where... except places where PHS or similar operate. these phones u dont put in sim cards... and whats ironic is that it's 2G, but they say the 3G ones are going on sale in japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Handy-phone_System

sushi
Dec 20, 2007, 08:24 AM
Some phone manufacturers think that standard will be wimax.
Interesting that you mention wimax. Some of my Japanese telecommunications friends have spoke of supporting the wimax standard, so maybe that will be it.

You would think that with worldwide mobile human population, the cell phone companies would be pushing towards a world wide standard.

FWIW, when I first got a cell phone here in Japan, to call directly from cell phone to cell phone the person you were trying to call had to have a cell phone from the same company as your own. So groups of friends would buy their cell phones together to insure that they could talk to one another. Finally, the companies here in Japan started sharing access and things improved dramatically.

asxtb
Dec 20, 2007, 09:03 AM
DoCoMo sucks. on paper they are availiable in a lot of areas, but the signals you get in these areas is so terrible that it isn't worth using them

Where, for example?

Personally I like DoCoMo. It's not the cheapest. But I usually have reception when my AU and Vodaphone using friends do not. This is especially true in outlying areas away from the bigger cities which is important to me.

AU would be fine as well.

Each year all providers seem to get better. When I had my first cell phone about 13 years ago, coverage was really limited.
I agree with ob81. Like he said, with DoCoMo you get more coverage, even away from the bigger cities, but it isn't a great reception. I've had all 3 services and DoCoMo was by far the worst. AU was decent. And Vodafone/Softbank has been the best. I had no reception in my old apartment or my girlfriends (now also my) apartment with DoCoMo, but had/have full reception with Softbank. And I never got my mail sent thru on my DoCoMo phone. But I do think they have some of the better phones. That's what attracted me in the first place.

As for the iPhone, I would like to see it come to Softbank, but even if it did, I don't know if I would buy it. The phones available today, let alone next year, can do so much more than the iPhone it would be a bit of a downgrade to buy one. Unless, they added IR, 'bar code' reader/scanner, TV and IC chip. I could even do without the IR and bar code reader, maybe TV, but I need my IC chip. :o:D

sh1n1gam1
Dec 20, 2007, 09:25 AM
Am I reading something wrong? The article says there needs to be an 3G iPhone before it can be sold in Japan.. then it says in the next sentence there is no GSM service in Japan... correct me if I'm wrong but if you have no GSM service... a 3G phone would be worthless....

The other think I find funny is that there is GSM service in Japan- so I question the article having any truth to it at all..

I have been to Japan with my iPhone and it worked just fine... data and voice....


Er, how did you manage to get your iPhone to work in Japan? AT&T's own international roaming page (pop-up about traveling to Japan and Korea, to be exact) clearly states that you need a 3G 2100MHz compatible handset for it to work in Japan. See

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/en_US/popups/travel-to-japan-south-korea.jsp

The iPhone is most certainly not a 3G 2100MHz compatible handset so I'm really curious how you managed to use it in Japan. Where in Japan did you use it?

swami16
Dec 20, 2007, 01:28 PM
post problem

josepho
Dec 20, 2007, 07:14 PM
Er, how did you manage to get your iPhone to work in Japan? AT&T's own international roaming page (pop-up about traveling to Japan and Korea, to be exact) clearly states that you need a 3G 2100MHz compatible handset for it to work in Japan. See

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/en_US/popups/travel-to-japan-south-korea.jsp

The iPhone is most certainly not a 3G 2100MHz compatible handset so I'm really curious how you managed to use it in Japan. Where in Japan did you use it?

TXCraig could not have used his iPhone in Japan. You would be correct in thinking that you would need a compatible 3G handset in order to roam in Japan, a criterion which clearly the iPhone does not meet.

GSMWorld, the definitive guide of GSM and 3G coverage clearly outlines the networks available in Japan:
http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_jp.shtml

TXCraig would be correct that AT&T publish roaming prices for Japan, because roaming agreements may exist, but users would obviously need compatible handsets to be able to make use of any such agreements which might be in place.

JapanScott
Dec 21, 2007, 03:48 AM
phones sold in japan wont work else where... except places where PHS or similar operate.

A more precise statement would be "Most Japanese phones...." I know SoftBank and Docomo DO sell 'world phones'. See my post above about my Nokia.

BiikeMike
Dec 21, 2007, 09:41 AM
Sorry all you DoCoMo haters, looks like it's official (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071219/bs_afp/japantelecommobilecompanyappledocomo) That Apple did meet with them.


Nothing firm yet though....

Jade Cambell
Dec 21, 2007, 12:42 PM
I love how Japan doesn't even have an EDGE network. They're so ahead of us in technology that they've ONLY got 3G! I bet that every square inch of Japan is covered with the highest quality 3G coverage. Well, not quite. But every square inch of the big cities.

samab
Dec 21, 2007, 01:09 PM
I love how Japan doesn't even have an EDGE network. They're so ahead of us in technology that they've ONLY got 3G! I bet that every square inch of Japan is covered with the highest quality 3G coverage. Well, not quite. But every square inch of the big cities.

That's because Japan has its own 2G cell phone system called PDC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Digital_Cellular

Look at the map of Japan, it's a small nation in geographic terms --- not really that hard to cover the whole country in 3G.

Rodimus Prime
Dec 21, 2007, 07:04 PM
If it's CDMA, would that work on Verizon's CDMA network here?

no. Even if they used the same fequrancy Verizon nor sprint would ever allow it. A sprint phone will not work on verizon network even though they used the same towers most of the the time. Verizon will only let Verizon phones work with them and sprint will only let sprint work with them. All other CMDA careers are the same in the US only the phones they let on will work.

mavis
Dec 23, 2007, 06:45 AM
Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.2 (JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

If it's CDMA, would that work on Verizon's CDMA network here?

no. Even if they used the same fequrancy Verizon nor sprint would ever allow it. A sprint phone will not work on verizon network even though they used the same towers most of the the time. Verizon will only let Verizon phones work with them and sprint will only let sprint work with them. All other CMDA careers are the same in the US only the phones they let on will work.

That may not be the case in the future - I remember reading lately that Verizon is planning to make their network available to ANY compatible device, pricing TBD. So a 3G iPhone sold in Japan should be able to work on their network, although since Japan is known for its ridiculous pricing, the cost might be prohibitive.

Philberttheduck
Dec 24, 2007, 04:00 PM
if i was living in japan, the iphone would seem like inferior technology compared to the other phones available, 3g or not.

UltraNEO*
Dec 25, 2007, 03:19 AM
if i was living in japan, the iphone would seem like inferior technology compared to the other phones available, 3g or not.

In terms of technological breakthrough's the iPhone will always be a couple of generations behind when compared to the local Japanese market, as new keitai handsets are springing up every months! Some of them having enabled 3.5g technology and all offering features that are more network friendly with improved user friendlyness. Then there's the strong security features... oh, you can forget PIN or passphrase, that's old school!! hahaha....

Personally, I can't see Apple updating their iPhone technology to stay competitive with the ever changing Japanese market some how. Overall, the iPhone will always be an attractive alternative mobile platform, perhaps seen more as a novelty gadget for Apple followers and fan-boys. For me, I'm 99.9% sure, I won't be buying one!!

DoCoMo's new keitai
http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/english/product/foma/905i/index.html

JapanScott
Dec 25, 2007, 05:18 AM
if i was living in japan, the iphone would seem like inferior technology compared to the other phones available, 3g or not.

Many of the features in Japanese phones don't likely find as much use outside of the big metropolis' like Tokyo et al. One-seg TV, IC chips for rail travel and paying at convenience stores and so on. For me personally these same features just aren't appealing... and I'm somewhat of a techno-geek. Why, don't they interest me ? Because I live in the REAL Japan.. I live in a smaller city (approx. 150,000 people) about 60+km north of Tokyo. I rarely ride a train. I have no interest in watching the Japanese TV that'd be available on a cell phone. And I'm rarely so rushed that I can't pull a 1000 bill out of my pocket to pay for my purchases at the convenience store.

That being said, there are NO features "missing" in the current iPhone for what I need. The key point in that sentence is CURRENT. Only Steve J. and company know what will be in the next iPhone. People keep forgetting that the iPhone is a 1.0 version. Apple obviously won't let it stall at 1.0. The iPhone will continue to evolve and change as time goes. Any talk of what it will or won't be is only speculation.

makku
Dec 25, 2007, 06:34 AM
I agree the character input system definately needs to be worked on for the iPhones to have any chance in Japan. Maybe having a stylus pen might help but I would rather not use one. Too bad you won't be able to type inside your pocket without looking at the display like with all other phones..
Oh I got an idea. How about bundling a small Bluetooth keypad that is like a current phone keypad with buttons? :)

They also need support for third party Java Appli. You cannot call it a mobile phone without supporting them these days.

I hope they put in Felica support in there cause I use it daily at the company cafeteria.

JapanScott
Dec 25, 2007, 08:43 PM
I hope they put in Felica support in there ....

Or Suica. Or Edy. Or Nanaco. Or ????? Those services are nice, but which one should they go with ? And again, as I said in my previous post... are they really relivant to the people who live outside of the mega-metropolis' ?

Chundles
Dec 25, 2007, 08:52 PM
I hope they build in compatibility with 850MHz 3G. Then it would work with our 14.4Mbps (yes, megabits) HSDPA network down here that covers about 98% of the population.

mavis
Dec 26, 2007, 12:22 AM
They also need support for third party Java Appli. You cannot call it a mobile phone without supporting them these days.

Unless you live in Japan, anyway. ;)

Seriously, have you ever tried installing a third-party appli on a Japanese phone? I mean, there are hundreds (thousands?) of free games and other appli available out there, but not ONE of them can be installed on a Japanese keitai. The only ones you can install are the ones that are available for a fee through the carrier's portal service. And when I say 'for a fee' I'm not of course referring to the cost of data transfer, but to the Y300-500 fee charged per game, in addition to the cost of data transfer.

Japanese phones may have lots of great features that can only be used in Japan (one-seg, Felica, etc) but the iPhone absolutely SLAUGHTERS all of them when it comes to usability and design. Not to mention those things people overseas probably take for granted, like the ability to send/recieve REAL email (IMAP/POP) instead of SMS/MMS only (what I would give to be able to check my real email from my cell phone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@!!!!!) ... The iPhone will do well in Japan, of that I have no doubt. The only thing they'll really need to work on is the Japanese input method, and possibly offering OTA iTunes access (since a lot of Japanese don't actually have their own computers) ...

iTeen
Dec 26, 2007, 12:25 AM
yea...verizon is supposed to release "4G" in 2009...i guess that would be cool

Chundles
Dec 26, 2007, 12:30 AM
yea...verizon is supposed to release "4G" in 2009...i guess that would be cool

Cool, and two years late.

iTeen
Dec 26, 2007, 12:40 AM
Cool, and two years late.

thats verizon for you...:mad:

makku
Dec 26, 2007, 09:02 AM
Unless you live in Japan, anyway. ;)

Seriously, have you ever tried installing a third-party appli on a Japanese phone? I mean, there are hundreds (thousands?) of free games and other appli available out there, but not ONE of them can be installed on a Japanese keitai. The only ones you can install are the ones that are available for a fee through the carrier's portal service. And when I say 'for a fee' I'm not of course referring to the cost of data transfer, but to the Y300-500 fee charged per game, in addition to the cost of data transfer.

Japanese phones may have lots of great features that can only be used in Japan (one-seg, Felica, etc) but the iPhone absolutely SLAUGHTERS all of them when it comes to usability and design. Not to mention those things people overseas probably take for granted, like the ability to send/recieve REAL email (IMAP/POP) instead of SMS/MMS only (what I would give to be able to check my real email from my cell phone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@!!!!!) ... The iPhone will do well in Japan, of that I have no doubt. The only thing they'll really need to work on is the Japanese input method, and possibly offering OTA iTunes access (since a lot of Japanese don't actually have their own computers) ...

Yes, I agree the cost of the applis for keitai are expensive, but their quality tend to be better than the ones downloaded for free. They're nice feature to have nonetheless, and I appreciate them during long wait time or for a quick check of the local map with gps.
The IMAP/POP mail might be useful but do you really enjoy reading or typing long mails on the phone? I think the current combination of voice communication and short text messages are the best. And if you need to read or write long e-mails you can always fire up your keitai browser and go to your favorite e-mail site.. though the packet fees are so overpriced :(

To me the current iPhones are not mobile phones. It is an iPod with an ability to make calls. Sony Ericsson does it nicely in a sense that they manage to keep their device a phone and incorporate Walkman features well. I feel a little awkward making calls on an iPhone cause it would be like putting a music player against my ear. I would probably get one, I just hope I can adjust myself so I don't have to go and buy a headset just to make calls :o


Or Suica. Or Edy. Or Nanaco. Or ????? Those services are nice, but which one should they go with ? And again, as I said in my previous post... are they really relivant to the people who live outside of the mega-metropolis' ?


Suica, Edy, and Nanaco are all based on FeliCa so there shouldn't be too much trouble there. The chip is pretty small and I am sure Apple will have space to fit one in an iPhone.
Okay, it may not be relevant to you fair enough, but it can't hurt Apple to include one in. It is really an essential feature of a keitai now. Besides a good share of iPhone users would be living in metropolis area.

koobcamuk
Dec 26, 2007, 02:36 PM
Yes, I agree the cost of the applis for keitai are expensive, but their quality tend to be better than the ones downloaded for free...

Interesting post.

The iPhone isn't really like putting an MP3 player to your ear - mainly because I didn't have a touch first. I'd never felt or used an iPod with this functionality, so for me this is an amazing phone that replaced my iPod.

I wonder how text input will work in Japan. I currently input Japanese into my 1.1.1 firmware phone and it's not ideal. I type English faster than UK T9 input, but my Japanese is faster with the predictive Japanese input methods found in standard phones.

As for applications... the people with current iPhones cannot use different applications without jailbreaking the handset. When we get the SDK this discussion will open up further.

It's really interesting. Hopefully, by 2009 I will be in Japan anyway. Then I can get my hands on the latest SHARP mobile and be happy with my phone :D

mavis
Dec 26, 2007, 05:37 PM
The IMAP/POP mail might be useful but do you really enjoy reading or typing long mails on the phone?Actually, I haven't sent a single email from my new iMac since I got my iPod Touch, I use it for email these days because I average about 40-50 words per minute on it (so it's nice and quick) and since I have it with me at all times I can reply to emails no matter where I am (although they aren't actually sent until I'm at home or at work) ... So to answer your question - no, I can't imagine a keitai being a good device to check email on. The iPhone, however - yeah - it's light years ahead of Japanese keitati when it comes to text entry and usability. ;)

I think the current combination of voice communication and short text messages are the best. And if you need to read or write long e-mails you can always fire up your keitai browser and go to your favorite e-mail site.. though the packet fees are so overpriced :(

To me the current iPhones are not mobile phones. It is an iPod with an ability to make calls. Sony Ericsson does it nicely in a sense that they manage to keep their device a phone and incorporate Walkman features well. I feel a little awkward making calls on an iPhone cause it would be like putting a music player against my ear. I would probably get one, I just hope I can adjust myself so I don't have to go and buy a headset just to make calls :o



Suica, Edy, and Nanaco are all based on FeliCa so there shouldn't be too much trouble there. The chip is pretty small and I am sure Apple will have space to fit one in an iPhone.
Okay, it may not be relevant to you fair enough, but it can't hurt Apple to include one in. It is really an essential feature of a keitai now. Besides a good share of iPhone users would be living in metropolis area.But Felica isn't used globally, in fact all of the cities with Felica systems are in Asia, with Japan obviously being the leader. Since Apple doesn't make market-specific products, I can't really see them including a Felica chip (or 1seg for that matter - again, Japan-only) ...

mavis
Dec 26, 2007, 05:40 PM
Then I can get my hands on the latest SHARP mobile and be happy with my phone :D
Wow. I've had 'the latest Sharp mobile' for years now (on my fourth Sharp now) and I can't WAIT for the iPhone to be launched here so I can dump this cheap POS phone. Haven't you noticed that the newest Sharp phones are still made of shiny plastic???? My phone feels so cheap compared to my iPod Touch (and I can only imagine, the iPhone) ... A plastic phone ... how tacky. ;)

UltraNEO*
Dec 28, 2007, 12:58 AM
this is my website http://www.iphonetechnologies.net

and your point being? :confused:

sushi
Dec 28, 2007, 01:12 AM
One thing that I notice about cell phone users here in Japan, is most use their phones via one hand.

The iPhone seems to be a two handed phone for the most part.

I am curious for those of you who already have an iPhone, do you use it in two handed or one handed mode the majority of the time?

JapanScott
Dec 29, 2007, 07:01 PM
...I haven't sent a single email from my new iMac since I got my iPod Touch, I use it for email these days ...

I recently emailed a Japanese friend of mine about using the iPod Touch for this purpose... specifically the typing and he said he feels just as comfortable using the iPod as he does his (Japanese) cell phone.

ME: I was just wondering what your experience has been with typing in Japanese on your iPod Touch. Is it more difficult than typing in English ?

My Friend: No, it's easy to type in Japanese with iPod Touch. I feel the same thing when I type Japanese with my cellphone. (It means easy for me.)


So it would seem to me from several comments here that the 'difficulty' is assumed and nothing more.

mavis
Dec 30, 2007, 01:12 AM
Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.2 (JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

That's interesting. Two of my Japanese friends have told me that they find it relatively difficult to type in Japanese on the Touch, mainly because the conversion choices displayed are so tiny. Also, the Touch is kind of slow pulling up the conversions (try typing "tachikawa" and watch the Touch choke when it pulls up the kana and kanji after the first and second character) ...

I hope the speed of Japanese text entry doesn't put too many locals off, I'd really like to see the iPhone do well here (if only to guarantee that we get future models quickly!) ;)

Dalal
Dec 30, 2007, 10:44 AM
japanese have every thing ;)

makku
Dec 30, 2007, 01:40 PM
I recently emailed a Japanese friend of mine about using the iPod Touch for this purpose... specifically the typing and he said he feels just as comfortable using the iPod as he does his (Japanese) cell phone.

ME: I was just wondering what your experience has been with typing in Japanese on your iPod Touch. Is it more difficult than typing in English ?

My Friend: No, it's easy to type in Japanese with iPod Touch. I feel the same thing when I type Japanese with my cellphone. (It means easy for me.)


So it would seem to me from several comments here that the 'difficulty' is assumed and nothing more.

I don't think difficulty is assumed, it's just subjective.. I know more than a few people who are not happy with the current input when it comes to Japanese on the iPod touch.
Personally, it's not terrible but I don't think it's enough to replace the current cellphone keypad. The QWERTY keyboard was just not designed for such a small device and I find my finger has to move more frequently with this method. And ro-maji might be fine for full keyboards, but it doesn't really work with handheld devices with all the unneccessary moves.
But the thing that needs to be most improved is conversion to kanji. It might be okay for common ones but for others like some peoples names it's not too fun. I hope they add good custom conversion dictionary soon.

retroneo
Dec 30, 2007, 09:17 PM
However the fact that Apple is willing to make different iPhones with differing technology specific for individual markets still presents the possibility of a different kind of iPhone for Canada.

A dual-band 2100MHz/850MHz HSDPA handset with quad band EDGE will operate in all countries that Apple has a presence in worldwide. Only a single handset model is required from Apple.

In fact it will operate at 3.5G speeds in all of those countries too (as all of those countries have HSDPA networks deployed too) with EDGE fallback for some rural areas and international roaming.

retroneo
Dec 30, 2007, 09:25 PM
I hope they put in Felica support in there cause I use it daily at the company cafeteria.

This will come but it will take time.

FeliCa is a trademark for what has become a standard known as NFC.

Many of us will already be using NFC compliant cards for public transport and security passes in buildings.

The first step is Bluetooth 2.1 introducing touch-to-pair. This requires an NFC reader. However it's only an optional part of the spec and Apple hasn't adopted any of Bluetooth 2.1 yet.

samab
Dec 31, 2007, 10:29 AM
This will come but it will take time.

FeliCa is a trademark for what has become a standard known as NFC.

Many of us will already be using NFC compliant cards for public transport and security passes in buildings.

The first step is Bluetooth 2.1 introducing touch-to-pair. This requires an NFC reader. However it's only an optional part of the spec and Apple hasn't adopted any of Bluetooth 2.1 yet.

FeliCa is a proprietary product developed by Sony --- a company that is well known to go their own way. It is not a standard accepted by any international means.

http://www.sony.net/Products/felica/abt/index.html

wongl
Jan 5, 2008, 04:25 AM
People keep forgetting that the iPhone is a 1.0 version. Apple obviously won't let it stall at 1.0. The iPhone will continue to evolve and change as time goes. Any talk of what it will or won't be is only speculation.

Absolutely agreed with this point. I think we often forget that as a 'prototype' to test the market, Apple has done a very fine job indeed with the iPhone.

I am confident that many of the short commings in the iPhone will be addressed imminently given that that mobile phone models have a life span of only 6 to 9 months these days. So a new model (with dual mode GSM 3G, Blackberry client, SIM applicaton took kit, BT 2.1, OTA upgrade, etc) must be only just round the corner. Cannot wait....

It would be interesting to see how DOCOMO and Apple will work together for an iPhone for Japan. Right now DOCOMO controls the user interface for all MOAP phones, right down to the menu tree/options/configuration. All manufacturers making MOAP phones must comply exactly to the standards. Unless DOCOMO is willing to change their business model to allow manufacturers to deviate from their own MOAP standards, or Apples conforms to the MOAP standards like everyone else, I cannot see how the iPhone deal with DOCOMO will work? How will DOCOMO change their business model without pissing off their long established partners like NEC, Panasonic, etc without 'losing face' would be very interesting for me.

3247
Feb 10, 2008, 11:09 AM
A dual-band 2100MHz/850MHz HSDPA handset with quad band EDGE will operate in all countries that Apple has a presence in worldwide. Only a single handset model is required from Apple.
My guess is that it will be (E)GSM 850/900/1800/1900 and UMTS (=W-CDMA) 850/2100 (including the +.5G speed-ups EDGE and HSDPA, of course), too.

Such a beast would not only work anywhere in the world using GSM and UMTS but would also be compatible with most 3G networks currently deployed: Most countries use UMTS 2100 for 3G, with 850 (and 1900) used in North and South America. So there would be at least one 3G network available in any country, except Chile, El Salvador and Honduras. Furthermore, there are already phones on the market that support exactly this, e.g. the Nokia 6120c (http://europe.nokia.com/A4399011).

I don't think Apple wants to make special models for individual markets, which rules out anything CDMA-based as well as PDC.

It also explains why Apple is talking to NTT and Softbank: These two operate UMTS 2100 (http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_jp.shtml) networks in Japan, with NTT having a much better coverage.

UltraNEO*
Feb 13, 2008, 07:04 AM
Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.2 (JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

That's interesting. Two of my Japanese friends have told me that they find it relatively difficult to type in Japanese on the Touch, mainly because the conversion choices displayed are so tiny. Also, the Touch is kind of slow pulling up the conversions (try typing "tachikawa" and watch the Touch choke when it pulls up the kana and kanji after the first and second character) ...

I hope the speed of Japanese text entry doesn't put too many locals off, I'd really like to see the iPhone do well here (if only to guarantee that we get future models quickly!) ;)

Question...
How you type blindly on a iTouch? Is it even possible?

Often, I just tap my messages without looking at the keitai's keypad. あ,か,さ is fairly easy and the predictive text works wonders. you know what i mean? right?

Is it so?
Feb 14, 2008, 06:29 PM
If only America was like that... I can only sigh in disappointment

butterfly0fdoom
Feb 14, 2008, 07:01 PM
Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.2 (JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)



That may not be the case in the future - I remember reading lately that Verizon is planning to make their network available to ANY compatible device, pricing TBD. So a 3G iPhone sold in Japan should be able to work on their network, although since Japan is known for its ridiculous pricing, the cost might be prohibitive.


The amount of compatible devices that consumers can readily buy for CDMA networks is 0. There's no point for Verizon to make that claim until they move onto 4G as they're part of the LTE camp, which means SIM cards, which means an open network will have relevenace and only then will it have relevance.

mavis
Mar 6, 2008, 08:21 AM
Just wondering if there has been any other info about this recently ... ? Don't know how much longer I can wait for a decent phone to be sold here ... ;)

JapanScott
Mar 7, 2008, 03:21 AM
Just wondering if there has been any other info about this recently ... ? Don't know how much longer I can wait for a decent phone to be sold here ... ;)

I haven't heard much recently, but I'm thinking in June we'll hear something. The version 2.0 update will come then and I figure so will some hardware updates. (And the hardware updates are what we'll need to get the thing flying in Japan.

I'm just hoping that whoever Apple goes with here has an affordable plan.... otherwise my wife'll shoot it down. I've been saving since the thing was announced and I'll be MIGHTY upset if I can't afford the service !

Scott

mavis
Mar 7, 2008, 03:24 AM
Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.3 (JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

Haha, I know exactly what you mean. That's part of the reason I'm really hoping they go with Softbank - DoCoMo will cost a fortune!

chinarut
Mar 9, 2008, 12:22 PM
I haven't heard much recently, but I'm thinking in June we'll hear something. The version 2.0 update will come then and I figure so will some hardware updates. (And the hardware updates are what we'll need to get the thing flying in Japan.
Scott

I'm hedging bets it'll be July. The 2.0 update is critical to Enterprise rollouts and certainly in time for MNC global rollouts - my guess is they want to give themselves a solid 1 month lead time to iron out any kinks on existing devices and the new hardware will follow suit in Asia quite quickly.

that said, it'd be a pretty bold move to roll it out all at once of course!

I wouldn't mind being surprised ;)

yoyo5280
Mar 25, 2008, 04:08 AM
Hmmm.... In Japan, however, the keitai (cell phone) demand being so strong and so varied (anyone who walks has a cell phone), if the iPhone does find much of a niche, I feel it will be a small one. For example, youths enjoying TV functionality or high quality camera phones or other such niche features already would see the iPhone as interesting but in many ways a downgrade, since it will not do what they are used to doing.


I agree, however I think the iPhone still has perfected some things Japanese phones do. Gaming: well the new SDK should be great, Email: I bet so much money it kicks PC mail on Softbank sharp phones, Web: PC site browsing just so much better,Music/videos: The Mobile iTunes store should be great. All my friends by music on their phones as much as they do for their iPods.

But I agree, the iPhones camera will be laughed at and lack of TV might be made up for by the video downloads and youtube. I don't know.

I think it's more of a "Non-Japanese = inferior" mentality than anything else. Think about it: how many foreign-made phones have you seen AU selling? I could be way off base here, but I don't recall EVER seeing a Motorola or Nokia sold by AU. This is in contrast to DoCoMo and Softbank, who have throughout the years offered various phones other than the stock Sharp/Panasonic/Toshiba/NEC cookie-cutter crap everyone shoves down our throats.

In any case, I believe the iPhone will do very well here for the simple reason that it blows away ANY Japanese phone in terms of usability and coolness. I mean, the people who see my hacked Touch are astounded when they see me flipping through pics, using coverflow, and typing emails at 40 words per minute. Which of course brings us to what has already been mentioned a few times: the iPhone and iPod Touch right now are TERRIBLE for Japanese input. My J-friends with Touches all complain about how difficult it is to input kana/kanji - the predictive entry method works fine (albeit slow) but the conversion choices are VERY small and therefore difficult to press. Apple needs to do something to address Japanese input methods on the iPhone, or else it will be a tremendous flop. (except for me and my fellow gaijin, who will line up to buy one on launch day) ... hehe
The not japanese point you spoke about is not necessarily true. Both AU and Softbank have some Korean manufacturers which you would think would not be liked but they are not.
Sorry all you DoCoMo haters, looks like it's official (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071219/bs_afp/japantelecommobilecompanyappledocomo) That Apple did meet with them.


Nothing firm yet though....
PLEASE NOT DOCOMO:(
if i was living in japan, the iphone would seem like inferior technology compared to the other phones available, 3g or not.
In some ways it does, in others it does not. Still no Japanese phones has such a great interface and media player!

Many of the features in Japanese phones don't likely find as much use outside of the big metropolis' like Tokyo et al. One-seg TV, IC chips for rail travel and paying at convenience stores and so on. For me personally these same features just aren't appealing... and I'm somewhat of a techno-geek. Why, don't they interest me ? Because I live in the REAL Japan.. I live in a smaller city (approx. 150,000 people) about 60+km north of Tokyo. I rarely ride a train. I have no interest in watching the Japanese TV that'd be available on a cell phone. And I'm rarely so rushed that I can't pull a 1000 bill out of my pocket to pay for my purchases at the convenience store.

That being said, there are NO features "missing" in the current iPhone for what I need. The key point in that sentence is CURRENT. Only Steve J. and company know what will be in the next iPhone. People keep forgetting that the iPhone is a 1.0 version. Apple obviously won't let it stall at 1.0. The iPhone will continue to evolve and change as time goes. Any talk of what it will or won't be is only speculation.
I see your point...but these TV/felica phones are cool. Who does not want to watch NHK Kids TV while paying for their アプルパイ all with their phones :p
I doubt the iPhone will get Felica and OneSeg but I think 3g and a better camera in 2.0. I also think they will continue to update the software of 1.0. Part of the iPhone is that it can be updated for free constantly.
Or Suica. Or Edy. Or Nanaco. Or ????? Those services are nice, but which one should they go with ? And again, as I said in my previous post... are they really relivant to the people who live outside of the mega-metropolis' ?
Felica works with Suica,Edy,and nanaco doesnt it? You just have to install the software.



It will defiantly take alota marketing to get the iPhone bigger here. Some apple geeks and young adventurers might buy it the way it is now but many japanese will stick to their other phones.

ilovehelvetica
Mar 25, 2008, 10:31 AM
So i was in the apple store the other day, I saw a little asian guy roll in with atleast 4 g's in CASH buys about 12 iphones and leaves.
they go back to japan to sell them cause they figured out how to hack them to work in japan.
i thought it was really funny how that happened, i was tempted to jump the little guy and get 12 free iphones, but im a good person :]

yoyo5280
Mar 25, 2008, 07:24 PM
So i was in the apple store the other day, I saw a little asian guy roll in with atleast 4 g's in CASH buys about 12 iphones and leaves.
they go back to japan to sell them cause they figured out how to hack them to work in japan.
i thought it was really funny how that happened, i was tempted to jump the little guy and get 12 free iphones, but im a good person :]

Now mister good stereotypical person 1) not all Asians are Japanese and 2) yes they do do this, but they are not hacked to work on the networks here. People use them as iPod Touches with cameras.

yoyo5280
Mar 26, 2008, 06:14 AM
Hope you enjoy (im not trying to offenend anyone)

All my japanese (female) friends have charms and purikura (プリクラ) galore on their phones.

emotion
Mar 26, 2008, 06:23 AM
I'd like to see a loop for stuff like that (and a camera style strap) in the next gen iPhone.

Mars478
Mar 26, 2008, 08:28 AM
If They Put The Iphone On Verizon, Verizon Will Probably Put The Ugly Interface Of The Voyager On Thge Iphone !!!!!!!!!!!!

bokdol
Mar 31, 2008, 12:04 AM
IF THEY PUT THE IPHONE ON VERIZON, VERIZON WILL PROBABLY PUT THE UGLY INTERFACE OF THE VOYAGER ON THGE IPHONE !!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::p;):rolleyes::cool::eek::(:D:)

i think one of the reason verizon said no was that apple said no to verizons interface. i believe verizon was offered the phone first

zainjetha
Apr 1, 2008, 11:28 PM
No no, Apple would not agree to any branding of Phone... A user interface provided by network? I dont think so... Not even so much as a network painting on the physical like Orange do to all their Phones..

Nikuman
Apr 11, 2008, 08:40 AM
This waiting is killing me! My gen 2 iPod 8GB Blackie Nano feels too small lately and the 32 GB Touch available here in Japan looks awful tempting! My Sharp cell phone via Softbank is almost two years old --it's all beat-up and the battery is rapidly heading south so that Nokia N95 which looks ready to be released here any day by Softbank looks mighty tempting too. But the hope of the imminent release of the iPhone in Japan has me totally paralyzed in this horrible sort of tech-purgatory that is just excruciating! If it was a 3G, 32 GB Ai (Love!) Phone released tomorrow, I swear I'd pay 100,000 yen to be raptured out of this hell I'm in now! Waiting, waiting waiting...

Fukui
Apr 15, 2008, 08:15 AM
Hmmm.... In Japan, however, the keitai (cell phone) demand being so strong and so varied (anyone who walks has a cell phone), if the iPhone does find much of a niche, I feel it will be a small one. For example, youths enjoying TV functionality or high quality camera phones or other such niche features already would see the iPhone as interesting but in many ways a downgrade, since it will not do what they are used to doing. Users of simpler phones will see it as complex and flashy and gimmicky, whether or not that is true.

Also, the Japanese text conversion software in the iPhone must be as good or better than that in other phones to be taken seriously. Judging from Apple's less than desirable text conversion in Mac OS X, this is not likely to be found.

My guess is that the iPhone will be more of a Mac fan thing, since though it's great in America, there's a lot more to surviving the cell phone market in Japan than whether or not you can convert the network hardware. That's just the bare necessity. Without a competitive text conversion software, it will be a joke.
Thats assuming that the iPhone doesn't get specialized for this market.
Which they would be stupid (they're not) to not do.

locust43
Apr 17, 2008, 10:34 PM
i think one of the reason verizon said no was that apple said no to verizons interface. i believe verizon was offered the phone first One thing Apple wanted was for it to be international compatible which unless they made a CDMA/GSM chipset it wouldn't be?

locust43
Apr 17, 2008, 10:35 PM
If it's CDMA, would that work on Verizon's CDMA network here? It's a different CDMA than Verizon's CDMA2000. Their CDMA is like AT&T's 3G W-CDMA service here on a different frequency which is based off GSM. CDMA2000 like VZW won't operate or roam off a UMTS W-CDMA network.

zap2
Apr 17, 2008, 10:45 PM
One thing Apple wanted was for it to be international compatible which unless they made a CDMA/GSM chipset it wouldn't be?

I'm guessing Apple would have been allowed to make any models for the international scene, but in the US, Verizon would be the only one selling it.


I doubt it had anything to do with Verizon's OS, Verizon never installs that on smartphones, why would they force Apple to let them on the iPhone?

I don't think Verizon wants to pay Apple part of the service plan, honestly, I think they missed a great chance. Though, I'm glad AT&T got it!

blueelephant
Apr 22, 2008, 10:29 AM
2 major metropolitan areas (Tokyo and Osaka) alone consists of 40% of the whole population in Japan. And many people their heavily rely on Osaifu-Keitai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaifu-Keitai) (FeliCa). It's something that really replaces the wallet and it's starting to become a part of their life style. So, I don't think iPhone will stand a chance without it. I really hope apple will add FeliCa to iPhone...

yoyo5280
Apr 22, 2008, 05:12 PM
2 major metropolitan areas (Tokyo and Osaka) alone consists of 40% of the whole population in Japan. And many people their heavily rely on Osaifu-Keitai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaifu-Keitai) (FeliCa). It's something that really replaces the wallet and it's starting to become a part of their life style. So, I don't think iPhone will stand a chance without it. I really hope apple will add FeliCa to iPhone...

Ya I agree. You can even use it at Ikea now! :eek:
However apple may have trouble pulling this off...

mavis
May 1, 2008, 07:37 AM
2 major metropolitan areas (Tokyo and Osaka) alone consists of 40% of the whole population in Japan. And many people their heavily rely on Osaifu-Keitai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaifu-Keitai) (FeliCa). It's something that really replaces the wallet and it's starting to become a part of their life style. So, I don't think iPhone will stand a chance without it. I really hope apple will add FeliCa to iPhone...I don't know - I really hope Apple doesn't cave and make a Japanese-only version of the iPhone (since the rest of the world has no use for felica technology, there would be no point in putting it in iPhones meant for other countries) ...

yoyo5280
May 1, 2008, 05:13 PM
why do you hope apple does not do that?

Also today all my japanese friends where talking about the iPhone in japanese (unusual cause im the only one who cares about anything technical)...then one turns to me and says "people say iPhone is coming to DoCoMo soon."

Metropolis Magazine claims softbank. All this shouldn't be taken to seriously though.

JapanScott
May 2, 2008, 05:54 AM
why do you hope apple does not do that?

Also today all my japanese friends where talking about the iPhone in japanese (unusual cause im the only one who cares about anything technical)...then one turns to me and says "people say iPhone is coming to DoCoMo soon."

Metropolis Magazine claims softbank. All this shouldn't be taken to seriously though.

I sure hope DoCoMo does NOT get the iPhone. If they do it'll be another nail in the coffin of my iPhone hopes. I'm hoping for SoftBank and a low ..errr, decent price plan. Otherwise my banker (AKA, my wife) will shoot it down for sure. I've been saving for it since it was first announced.... I hope I don't have to 'settle' for an iPod Touch !

udkl1298
May 2, 2008, 10:01 PM
Now this makes perfect sense/ Japaneese wont buy a mobile if it dosen't have 3G capabilities. 3g iphone will be HOT in japan . Great strategy , Apple !!

yoyo5280
May 2, 2008, 10:13 PM
your right, the Japanese won't buy the iPhone without 3G! Why? Cause as people above me said so very many times JAPAN IS 3G ONLY!

SaSaSushi
May 2, 2008, 10:48 PM
I sure hope DoCoMo does NOT get the iPhone. If they do it'll be another nail in the coffin of my iPhone hopes. I'm hoping for SoftBank and a low ..errr, decent price plan. Otherwise my banker (AKA, my wife) will shoot it down for sure. I've been saving for it since it was first announced.... I hope I don't have to 'settle' for an iPod Touch !

According to an online poll (http://i.impressrd.jp/quick_enquete/2008/01/07/339) done by All-In-One Internet Magazine, most Japanese agree with you in hopes that the iPhone will be a Softbank offering. For non-Japanese capable, Softbank was chosen by 42% to 38% who chose NTT Docomo. AU and PHS provider Willcom lag far behind.

Add me to that list. I've been with Softbank ever since they were J-Phone some seven years ago and all through their Vodafone days.

Just say no to DoCoMo. :p

mavis
May 4, 2008, 01:21 AM
why do you hope apple does not do that?

Well, adding Felica technology to the new iPhone will raise the cost, right? And since Apple doesn't make region-specific products (besides keyboards, of course) they will be selling the same hardware (the same 3G iPhone) worldwide, right? So, why should people in every country have to pay for something that only Japanese people can use? It just doesn't make sense. ;)

mavis
May 4, 2008, 01:23 AM
I've been with Softbank ever since they were J-Phone some seven years ago and all through their Vodafone days.

Just say no to DoCoMo. :p

Me too. A DoCoMo iPhone will be a tough pill to swallow; as much as I'm DYING to get an iPhone that would seriously make me reconsider. I hate DoCoMo with a passion, their pricing (read: gouging) is ridiculous.

kaician
May 6, 2008, 03:26 AM
about the keyboard, they just released an update within the iphone 2.0 beta which addressed my concerns with the keyboard being too small to be useful. still haven't used it, but if it's the same size as the normal english keyboard, with a kana keyboard thrown in, my size concerns are alayed... now if the conversion type is taken care of... (sentence by sentence and not word by word...)

also, the thing about felica, that is just something thrown into phones which half the people use and half the people don't even know what it is... I have so many friends who have gotten new phones or even had them for a couple months and suddenly say "oh wow, i didn't know my phone could show tv..." (almost all phones come with sattelite 'oneseg' standard now...)
felica is the same, except almost no smartphone out now, microsoft based(htc, sharp) nor nokia based has a felica chip, tv, or can use the features usually included on ALL OTHER NORMAL JAPANESE PHONES.

Thing is, this does not doom these phones, instead, people buy them because they have their own merits and the type of people who buy these phones want the features they offer instead of just because they have a long list of features that they probably won't use.
In regards to the phone, not only will it have the flexibility of a smartphone (with the 2.0 update), but it will also have apple usability and association with the ipod which will take it beyond the normal 'smartphone crowd, far beyond...

Ipod, easy to use typing, mailing system (Japan must be push or no go, even softbank's microsoft phones got a special push program installed on them. why not exchange, don't ask me... ), bad-ass internet browser, and beautiful colorful screen... WINNER...

nostrum
May 7, 2008, 12:39 AM
I've just come back from Japan yesterday and the Apple obsession there is absolutely huge. its funny to go somewhere like Yodobashi or Bic camera and see the melee around the iPods and the crickets chirping around all the other mp3 players. How it must gall Sony to see Apple so comprehensively kicking their ass in their own back yard.

Based on the Apple love out there I can only assume when a 3g iPhone comes out over there its going to be huge.

BiginJapan
May 7, 2008, 01:49 AM
The buzz here in Japan was that Softbank already had a deal, and have just been ironing out the details... which probably include various network/roaming issues, as well as things like Japanese conversion and predictive text (not to mention the all-important emoji -- much farther-ranging than smilies). "This year" was all I could get out of a friend who works at Softbank. Also apparently delayed by all the effort put into Softbank's recent DisneyPhone release (Yawn).
The Japanese Mac community forums are regularly full of speculations... but I'm not sure how well it would compete in the regular phone market (not that it really needs to, at the price), seeing as a lot of Japanese use their phones INSTEAD OF, rather than as auxiliary to, a computer. Also lacking things like IC-compatibility for train passes and keitai-saifu "cell-phone-wallet" point-of-sale money transfers may make it difficult to sell -- except to the Mac'ers, who will buy it for the same reason they buy Apple products in general: because they're so freaking slick.

If the Japanese handwriting-identification comes through, I'll be sold. I'll change providers if it's not in fact Softbank.

sushi
May 7, 2008, 02:03 AM
Rumor has it that Apple talked to all three carriers. However, Apple's pricing model is not compatible with the Japanese mindset if you will, so that is delaying the release in Japan. However, I've been told not to expect anything before January. Hopefully this will change.

An engineering buddy mentioned that some DoCoMo only code (API type) has been found in the iPhone. If true, that would indicate DoCoMo is favored -- well at least when the code was written.

Of course, the rumorville is rather robust these days so who knows.

My bet is still on DoCoMo.

yoyo5280
May 7, 2008, 04:27 AM
The buzz here in Japan was that Softbank already had a deal, and have just been ironing out the details...

That is the complete opposite of what the 日本人 are saying at school. They say DoCoMo.

Like sushi, I also say DoCoMo (they have the most foreign phone brands I think).

Damn. I hate docomo.

SaSaSushi
May 7, 2008, 05:22 AM
That is the complete opposite of what the 日本人 are saying at school. They say DoCoMo.

Like sushi, I also say DoCoMo (they have the most foreign phone brands I think).

No offense, but unless your Japanese schoolmates have part time jobs in the Japanese telecom industry I doubt very much that what they believe holds much more weight one way or the other than our very own speculations in here.

Damn. I hate docomo.

No arguments here.

yoyo5280
May 7, 2008, 05:25 AM
No offense, but unless your Japanese schoolmates have part time jobs in the Japanese telecom industry I doubt very much that what they believe holds much more weight one way or the other than our very own speculations in here.
Your right, however im just curious about how the least techy/ apple hating ones knew about it. I think it must have been published in a mag or something.

SaSaSushi
May 7, 2008, 05:55 AM
Your right, however im just curious about how the least techy/ apple hating ones knew about it. I think it must have been published in a mag or something.

Well that definitely could be, Yoyo, and tbh, like you, I have this sinking feeling in my gut that it will end up being DoCoMo as well. If that
is the case, I will never own an iPhone in Japan.

That might push me over the edge towards getting an iPod Touch though. :)

yoyo5280
May 7, 2008, 06:00 AM
It might be a good thing, it being on DoCoMo. Im afraid that if I get one I will accidentally scratch/dent it.

Maybe ill just get a Softbank 911T and load it up with iPhone themes.

JapanScott
May 8, 2008, 07:58 AM
Just heard some news tonight that adds weight to SoftBank getting the iPhone. After announcing financial results NTT DoCoMo announced that that they will be carrying the Prada iPhone wannabe. I doubt very much that you'd find the iPhone and the Prada in the same stable....

waddaya think ?

SaSaSushi
May 8, 2008, 08:54 AM
Just heard some news tonight that adds weight to SoftBank getting the iPhone. After announcing financial results NTT DoCoMo announced that that they will be carrying the Prada iPhone wannabe. I doubt very much that you'd find the iPhone and the Prada in the same stable....

waddaya think ?

Yep, it's true: Here is an English source (http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/05/01/lg.prada.in.japan/) for the story.

I completely agree it highly unlikely that Apple would go with NTT if they are carrying the Prada because as you said its definitely an iPhone ripoff.

It could be a preemptive strike on some backroom deal between Softbank and Apple OR a breakdown/walkout in the NTT-Apple iPhone negotiations.

But you never know. The bit in that story about the Prada's being slated for sale primarily in Prada stores and not NTT retail outlets is concerning. If its that low profile (and high end) Apple might not give a toss.

I've got my finger crossed anyway. ;)

mavis
May 14, 2008, 09:16 AM
All these announcements from carriers on every continent and still nothing from one of the largest markets in the world. :mad:

JapanScott
May 19, 2008, 08:18 AM
Judging from Apple's less than desirable text conversion in Mac OS X, this is not likely to be found.


I wonder, do you actually use a Mac running OS X for actually inputing Japanese ? I use OS X daily and have no problems inputing Japanese text (other than the fact I will be 'still' learning for a long time). My wife however IS Japanese and obviously knows the language. I have NEVER heard her complain about Japanese text input.

BiginJapan
May 20, 2008, 04:21 AM
I agree with JapanScott. I use Mac OS X input for Japanese all the time. Unfortunately my work computer is a godforsaken Windoze piece of crap, and I infinitely prefer the Mac's input conversion. I have a number of Japanese Mac-using friends, and none of them have anything bad to say about the input, either (I'm non-native).

The only thing that's a drawback with the Mac is that there's no version of Babylon available for it, nor is there any really comparable software available (unless someone can correct me on that!?). But this seems to be drifting off thread-topic, doesn't it?

mavis
May 20, 2008, 08:16 AM
Well, here's a new bit of rumor, by way of AppleInsider:

Telecoms Korea (http://www.telecomskorea.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5708&Itemid=2) is reporting that NTT DoCoMo is in talks with Korea Telecom Freetel about a joint launch of the iPhone in both Japan and Korea. Don't know if there's any truth to this, but it's the first time I've heard Japan mentioned in connection with the iPhone in a while ...

Eastend
May 20, 2008, 08:51 AM
Guess I'm the only Gaijin that wants DoCoMo to get the iPhone, I live in the countryside and DoCoMo's Mova is the only thing that gets any reception here.
I'd Get rid of my complicated cell phone in a minute for a simple to use device. There is a big Mova antenna near my house.

BiginJapan
May 20, 2008, 11:47 PM
This particular gaijin doesn't care which company brings the iPhone to Japan, I just want it here! I'm on Softbank now (have been since it was J-Phone, lo, those many years ago), and I've been happy with their service and especially their rates, but I'll happily switch providers to have an iPhone (currently carrying a cell phone, iPod, and beloved-but-currently-on-its-last-legs PDA... :( )

mavis
May 21, 2008, 06:04 AM
Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.4 (pWN'd + JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

This particular gaijin doesn't care which company brings the iPhone to Japan, I just want it here! I'm on Softbank now (have been since it was J-Phone, lo, those many years ago), and I've been happy with their service and especially their rates, but I'll happily switch providers to have an iPhone (currently carrying a cell phone, iPod, and beloved-but-currently-on-its-last-legs PDA... :( )

I think I'm beginning to agree with you - DoCoMo or Softbank, I don't really care as long as we get the damn phone! I'm tired of using this plastic POS Sharp mobile and would love to be able to have my Touch's internet functionality while out and about. Bring it on, DoCoMo, Softbank, whoever!

SaSaSushi
May 21, 2008, 10:03 AM
More evidence of a Docomo iPhone:

Rumor: Simultaneous iPhone 2.0 release for Korea, Japan (http://www.tuaw.com/2008/05/21/rumor-simultaneous-iphone-2-0-release-for-korea-japan/)

And if that is the case it will still most definitely be a deal breaker for me ever getting one. Nothing could get me to switch to NTT. It would probably get me to stop putting off buying an iPod Touch though. ;)

mavis
May 21, 2008, 04:29 PM
More evidence of a Docomo iPhone:

Rumor: Simultaneous iPhone 2.0 release for Korea, Japan (http://www.tuaw.com/2008/05/21/rumor-simultaneous-iphone-2-0-release-for-korea-japan/)

And if that is the case it will still most definitely be a deal breaker for me ever getting one. Nothing could get me to switch to NTT. It would probably get me to stop putting off buying an iPod Touch though. ;)

Yeah, they link to the same article I linked to in my post ... ;)

But seriously, Apple seems to be influencing package/tariff/rate plans with each carrier - I'm hoping that even if they go with DoCoMo (which which will certainly garner more respect from the Japanese public, BTW) they might be able to get NTT to commit to less highway-robbery-ish pricing for us iPhone people.

makku
May 21, 2008, 04:48 PM
It might be a good thing, it being on DoCoMo. Im afraid that if I get one I will accidentally scratch/dent it.

Maybe ill just get a Softbank 911T and load it up with iPhone themes.

I don't recomment 911T. The interface is sluggish and reception is pretty bad.

I'm guessing it's going to be DoCoMo here. They recently changed their company logo just for the iPhone. :p

I really want FeliCa support though. I have gotten used to not having to carry my wallet around just to go to the convience store.

yoyo5280
May 21, 2008, 05:06 PM
I don't recomment 911T. The interface is sluggish and reception is pretty bad.


Thanks for the tip ;) I am going for the N73. cheaper then the iPhone will ever be.


Still, I am really disappointed that it looks like docomo. Docomo is dying and its just a matter of time until softbank takes over in the countryside.

SaSaSushi
May 21, 2008, 05:54 PM
Yeah, they link to the same article I linked to in my post ... ;)

Well, actually they link to Fortune Magazine which I now see links to your Telecoms Korea article. :o

But seriously, Apple seems to be influencing package/tariff/rate plans with each carrier - I'm hoping that even if they go with DoCoMo (which which will certainly garner more respect from the Japanese public, BTW) they might be able to get NTT to commit to less highway-robbery-ish pricing for us iPhone people.

Well it's not just the outrageous NTT fees that are a showstopper for me but the massive discounts I have accrued with J-Phone->Vodafone->Softbank over the course of my nearly 8 years with them. I'm on a plan where the rates drop annually.

I actually hardly use my cellphone at all, making/receiving less than a few calls each week. It would be more of a web surfing/e-mail device for me. I probably should just be considering an iPod Touch anyway.

For those of you actually considering switching carriers to NTT in the event of a DoCoMo iPhone though I do hope they seriously drop prices for you.

kungfumaster007
May 21, 2008, 10:35 PM
I don't really care which carrier release iPhone in Japan. I use au/KDDI and there's absolutely no talk about au.
I'm also worried that if I have to have a Japanese account on iTunes to activate the iPhone when it's realesed in Japan because I have a US account.
I'll just get 3G iPhone from US and jailbreak and unlock it and put my au chip (SIM card) in it. I just hope that it's compatible with au's CDMA system.

BiginJapan
May 22, 2008, 12:02 AM
I think I'm beginning to agree with you - DoCoMo or Softbank, I don't really care as long as we get the damn phone! I'm tired of using this plastic POS Sharp mobile and would love to be able to have my Touch's internet functionality while out and about. Bring it on, DoCoMo, Softbank, whoever!

Word. Do you not have any mobile internet connectivity with the Touch? Can't you use WiFi hotspots and such, or aren't they reasonably available?
(I've yet to see one model on the Japanese market that wasn't at heart a POS. They're essentially disposable.)

I'll just get 3G iPhone from US and jailbreak and unlock it and put my au chip (SIM card) in it. I just hope that it's compatible with au's CDMA system.

If that were possible, I think I'd probably know someone who'd done it already... But knock yourself out -- and let us know how it goes!

Thanks for the tip I am going for the N73. cheaper then the iPhone will ever be.

... and kick yourself repeatedly and vigorously for settling for that when the iPhone DOES come out, because that's what you REALLY wanted? Don't say I didn't warn you... ;)

mavis
May 22, 2008, 03:56 AM
Word. Do you not have any mobile internet connectivity with the Touch? Can't you use WiFi hotspots and such, or aren't they reasonably available?
(I've yet to see one model on the Japanese market that wasn't at heart a POS. They're essentially disposable.)Apparently my house is the only pocket of civilization in this part of Tokyo, it's the only place I can get a WiFi signal ... ;)

Actually, that's not entirely true. There's LOTS of WiFi in Tokyo, it's just that 99.9% of it is secured. So yeah - it's pretty hard to find an open network, you just have to keep trying and eventually you'll find one. With 8% signal strength. heh ...

The thing that has really got me pissed at Softbank is that I just broke my phone (my bad, I know) and even with the $5/month insurance, they want me to pay $160 for a new one. So I asked them how much my plastic Sharp 814SH would be without insurance. With a straight face the woman says to me, $690. That's right, seventy thousand yen (about $700USD) for that POS, year old phone. I shudder to think how much they'll try to charge for the iPhone.

zentraedi
May 22, 2008, 06:57 AM
Hope it comes to Softbank.

I'm pretty much stuck since my girlfriend and her entire family on the Softbank white plan.

PowerFullMac
May 22, 2008, 07:46 AM
We KNOW THIS ALREADY. There is so much evidence of a 3G iPhone that its baiscally certain it will be announced at WWDC, probably released very soon after, too.

mavis
May 22, 2008, 07:55 AM
We KNOW THIS ALREADY. There is so much evidence of a 3G iPhone that its baiscally certain it will be announced at WWDC, probably released very soon after, too.Gee, thanks for sharing. Perhaps if you read the thread title next time, your post might actually make sense in the context of the discussion. In this case, we're not debating the launch of a 3G iPhone (as you said, that horse has been beaten to death!) but rather, the launch of a 3G iPhone in JAPAN ... See, it's no coincidence the thread starter chose the title: 3G iPhone in Japan?

Anyway, thanks again for your time.

PowerFullMac
May 22, 2008, 07:58 AM
Gee, thanks for sharing. Perhaps if you read the thread title next time, your post might actually make sense in the context of the discussion. In this case, we're not debating the launch of a 3G iPhone (as you said, that horse has been beaten to death!) but rather, the launch of a 3G iPhone in JAPAN ... See, it's no coincidence the thread starter chose the title: 3G iPhone in Japan?

Anyway, thanks again for your time.

Well, as Apple have announced deals with carriers all over the world, the iPhone will probably be in Japan, too.

SaSaSushi
May 22, 2008, 08:13 AM
Well, as Apple have announced deals with carriers all over the world, the iPhone will probably be in Japan, too.

Well, if you even bothered to read the last 12 posts or so you'd know that the discussion was speculation about which carrier was going to get the iPhone not whether it would be sold in Japan or not.

PowerFullMac
May 22, 2008, 08:28 AM
Well, if you even bothered to read the last 12 posts or so you'd know that the discussion was speculation about which carrier was going to get the iPhone not whether it would be sold in Japan or not.

Yeah, 'coz we all have time to read through 6 pages of posts :rolleyes:

mavis
May 22, 2008, 08:38 AM
Well, as Apple have announced deals with carriers all over the world, the iPhone will probably be in Japan, too.Which makes your last post relevant, how?

mavis
May 22, 2008, 08:40 AM
Yeah, 'coz we all have time to read through 6 pages of posts :rolleyes:Yeah, just like how we all love to read ignorant comments from people who by their own admission can't be bothered to follow along with the discussion. Brilliant!! :D

PowerFullMac
May 22, 2008, 08:41 AM
Which makes your last post relevant, how?

Look, if its causing this much trouble then just forget it! Delete my posts then, yeeesshh :rolleyes:

SaSaSushi
May 22, 2008, 08:51 AM
Look, if its causing this much trouble then just forget it! Delete my posts then, yeeesshh :rolleyes:

LOL, we mere mortals can't even delete our own posts, much less anyone else's.

Your posts were no trouble to me but it did seem as if you were replying to a different conversation.

PowerFullMac
May 22, 2008, 08:58 AM
LOL, we mere mortals can't even delete our own posts, much less anyone else's.

Your posts were no trouble to me but it did seem as if you were replying to a different conversation.

I thought you lot where mods the way you were moaning at me! :p

I wasent fully concentraiting, I must admit, I was rush-posting at school!

yoyo5280
May 23, 2008, 04:39 AM
The Prada is being heavily advertised in おもてさんどえき and I saw prototype-y ones at bic camera today... piccy from my craptei

BiginJapan
May 23, 2008, 09:07 AM
I thought you lot where mods the way you were moaning at me! :p

I wasent fully concentraiting, I must admit, I was rush-posting at school!

I suspect most of the backlash was especially because it looked like you were SHOUTING at everyone about their IGNORANCE OF THE FACTS, when in fact YOU were the one that didn't know what the conversation was about.

Lesson: Read before you post, or risk the wrath of the regular posters (non-mods included)! And be careful with the all-caps. If you really don't have time to read the six pages of lead-up, and feel that you absolutely must post without reading, may I suggest something along the lines of: "Pardon me, but don't we know already that the 3G is, in fact, coming out? Or possibly my dreadful ignorance of the gist of this thread has misled me as to the nature of the discussion..." next time? ;)

As a public service: N.B. to new joiners of this thread: We KNOW there WILL BE a 3G iPhone release, and ASSUME one is IMMINENT in Japan. What we want to know is WHEN, and with WHAT PROVIDER, and using WHAT PROTOCOL, etc.

Your input, especially substantiated rumors and informed assessments, on these issues is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

PS to Mavis: My condolences -- that is fully and truly Wack. But I doubt Apple would let Softbank (or anyone else) do anything additionally outrageous to the price of the already-not-in-any-way-cheap iPhone...

BiginJapan
May 23, 2008, 09:10 AM
The Prada is being heavily advertised in おもてさんどえき and I saw prototype-y ones at bic camera today... piccy from my craptei

Looks fairly hideous. Seen the interface?

yoyo5280
May 23, 2008, 05:10 PM
Nope but the online pictures make it look. Meh... not as fancy as iPhone's but pretty good


The thing I notice right away, however, is how small it is compared to the iPhone. IT IS TINY!

BTW sorry about the piccy, you can tell that I need a new phone just from looking at it.

mavis
May 23, 2008, 08:47 PM
PS to Mavis: My condolences -- that is fully and truly Wack. But I doubt Apple would let Softbank (or anyone else) do anything additionally outrageous to the price of the already-not-in-any-way-cheap iPhone...True, but if Apple realizes that last year's cookie-cutter plastic clamshells are going for $700, who's to say they won't try to extract every last cent - pardon, YEN - out of the locals? I mean, if discontinued, disposable P.O.S. phones go for $700, why would Apple let us have the iPhone for $400? Disregarding the fact that the lowest model iPod Touch (the 8GB one) is still going for almost $400 at pretty much every retailer (and the Apple store) over here.

I have a feeling we're going to be taken to the cleaners on this one. As in, Apple is going to redefine "bend over and grab your ankles." :(

SaSaSushi
May 23, 2008, 09:19 PM
I have a feeling we're going to be taken to the cleaners on this one. As in, Apple is going to redefine "bend over and grab your ankles." :(

I wonder if it won't be possible to, as someone above suggested, just buy a US 3G iPhone once they're released, unlock it and slide in my Softbank SIM card. If so, it would definitely be something I'd consider doing and then I wouldn't really care less if they partner with NTT for the Japanese market.

I'd rather have a full US model anyway. :)

BiginJapan
May 24, 2008, 08:20 AM
I wonder if it won't be possible to, as someone above suggested, just buy a US 3G iPhone once they're released, unlock it and slide in my Softbank SIM card. If so, it would definitely be something I'd consider doing and then I wouldn't really care less if they partner with NTT for the Japanese market.

I'd rather have a full US model anyway. :)

For my purposes, I really want to see what they do with Japanese input, especially in terms of hand-drawn character-recognition. Otherwise I'd be happy to use a US model, if that were a possibility.

So... who's got the cash to do this kind of thing on a whim [jailbreak --> SIM card swap], with the decided possibility it won't work at all? Any volunteers?

Mavis: My personal prediction is in the neighborhood of 6万 for the iPhone when it comes out here. No less than 5, no more than 7.

mavis
May 26, 2008, 04:51 AM
For my purposes, I really want to see what they do with Japanese input, especially in terms of hand-drawn character-recognition. Otherwise I'd be happy to use a US model, if that were a possibility.Why do you think the input option would be different on a US model? This is Apple, not Microsoft! All iPhones (and iPod Touch's) have multi-lingual menus and all have the same input options. ;)
My personal prediction is in the neighborhood of 6万 for the iPhone when it comes out here. No less than 5, no more than 7.I hope you're right. I'm willing to pay up to 8万 or so (for the highest capacity model) but it's hard to imagine them not screwing us when the Japanese have been screwed for years on all keitai-related pricing. Remember: year old, crap-tastic cookie cutter phones (without OneSeg or other worthless 'features') are going for 7万 ... I can't imagine the iPhone will be any less. In fact, it will likely be substantially more!

Of course, I hope I'm wrong. But I'm not holding my breath.

yoyo5280
May 26, 2008, 05:41 AM
I don't know if you guys are noticing but the prada is really really really heavily advertised.


I know doubt that iPhone is with docomo.

wyscript
May 26, 2008, 10:56 AM
To yoyo5280 --> Ditto that on the iPhone probably not being with Docomo. I came to the same conclusion myself when I first saw the news that Docomo was getting the LG Prada phone. Of course, Softbank got the FULLFACE 2 several weeks ago, which mimics several features of the iPhone, so anything goes I suppose.

Guess we'll just have to wait a bit longer...dangit.

yoyo5280
May 26, 2008, 05:04 PM
Ive played with the FullFace 2 and if it is meant to mimic iPhone it does a horrible of it.

The trackpad is confusing and the accelerometer kinda sucks.

BiginJapan
May 27, 2008, 05:13 AM
Why do you think the input option would be different on a US model? This is Apple, not Microsoft! All iPhones (and iPod Touch's) have multi-lingual menus and all have the same input options. ;)

Good point... Apple's never put out a Japan-specific release that I can remember! I can almost imagine a Japan- (or at least Asia-) specific release, at least of the OS, for the iPhone, though, given the particularities of the market here. (The handwriting-recognition thing is particularly key, for me, though certainly not a huge consideration for Apple, I'm sure, as people use keyboards for their input conversion without complaint. I just really love the writing-recognition on my PDA and having it available on the iPhone would certainly contribute to making it worth the ??,???円 (see below).)


I hope you're right. I'm willing to pay up to 8万 or so (for the highest capacity model) but it's hard to imagine them not screwing us when the Japanese have been screwed for years on all keitai-related pricing. Remember: year old, crap-tastic cookie cutter phones (without OneSeg or other worthless 'features') are going for 7万 ... I can't imagine the iPhone will be any less. In fact, it will likely be substantially more!

OK, I'll confess I'm just basing my estimate on the usual US-price:J-price ratios for Apple products. Having not actually paid anything more than a pittance for a handset that I can remember (I think the shortest I had one for was two years, and when I've gotten a new one it's always been a slightly-less-than-current model), my impression of handset prices may be off. Push comes to shove, I'd probably pay up to around 9万、depending on the features offered (see above).

BiginJapan
May 27, 2008, 05:17 AM
I know doubt that iPhone is with docomo.

This "know doubt" is rather perplexing. You know? You doubt? You have no doubt? :confused:

:p

pauld
May 27, 2008, 05:43 AM
I wonder if it won't be possible to, as someone above suggested, just buy a US 3G iPhone once they're released, unlock it and slide in my Softbank SIM card. If so, it would definitely be something I'd consider doing and then I wouldn't really care less if they partner with NTT for the Japanese market.

I'd rather have a full US model anyway. :)

On the topic of 3G sims,
I will hopefully buy an iPhone in the UK when it comes out (as long as I can do so sans-contract & unlock), but I intend to move to Tokyo by the end of the year.

Can anyone tell me if it's possible to purchase a 3G sim card ONLY while there with;

A - Somewhat decent call/data rates - I've rented (http://www.softbank-rental.jp/en/price/index.php)a softbank one from Narita each time I've been there with 105 / min for calls and data rates not worth considering - pretty pricey compared to the UK where we have "included minutes" for a set cost per month

B - A contract in 6 month bursts - I might not be there longer than this and would rather not tie myself in to anything too permanent


Finally (and apologies for going off-topic), to all of the non-Japanese on this thread, may I ask what sort of professions you are in? In order to spend time there, and seemingly without any other options, I've resigned myself to eikaiwa work, but would really appreciate pointers towards anything else.

Thanks a lot,
Paul

UltraNEO*
May 27, 2008, 06:31 AM
(oops.. error)

Eastend
May 27, 2008, 09:53 PM
The Prada is being heavily advertised in おもてさんどえき and I saw prototype-y ones at bic camera today... piccy from my craptei

My battery stopped working today so I stopped in DoCoMo, the Prada Phone sells for 90,000 Yen that's well over 800 dollars US, closer to 900. They even sell leather Prada cases for it, think I'll keep my phone, it cost 450 dollars and I had enough DoCoMo points that it cost about 20 dollars. (ten years of points)

Eastend
May 27, 2008, 11:17 PM
Just found this on the net, maybe softbank gets the iPhone. Maybe they will call it iPhone Disney, anyway the article is speculation, but logical.

http://wirelesswatch.jp/2008/05/27/3g-iphone-for-japan-via-softbank-mobile/

mavis
May 28, 2008, 01:48 AM
My battery stopped working today so I stopped in DoCoMo, the Prada Phone sells for 90,000 Yen that's well over 800 dollars US, closer to 900. They even sell leather Prada cases for it, think I'll keep my phone, it cost 450 dollars and I had enough DoCoMo points that it cost about 20 dollars. (ten years of points)********** Japan. A quick Google search reveals that the LG Prada, which retails for nearly $900USD here, is going for $300-400 in other countries.

We are so gonna get screwed on iPhone pricing. :mad:

SaSaSushi
May 28, 2008, 02:00 AM
Not to change the subject but something else occured to me about the iPhone. Is there currently a cellphone in the Japanese market that does not have a user-replaceable battery?

I wonder how that's going to fly over here, especially on a phone that promises to sell for exorbitant prices.

mavis
May 28, 2008, 03:09 AM
Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.4 (pWN'd + JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

Not to change the subject but something else occured to me about the iPhone. Is there currently a cellphone in the Japanese market that does not have a user-replaceable battery?

I wonder how that's going to fly over here, especially on a phone that promises to sell for exorbitant prices.

Doesn't seem to have any effect on iPod sales ... ;)

koobcamuk
May 29, 2008, 02:28 AM
Can anyone tell me if it's possible to purchase a 3G sim card ONLY while there with;

A - Somewhat decent call/data rates

At the moment, there is no 6 month burst option for a contract, but I have the Softbank prepaid. Unlimited mail for 30 days for ¥300. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

I am more concerned about the 日本語 input. On my old iPhone is was slow and fiddly... a standard ケータイ has large buttons and is very quick to type on...

I wonder what we'll see. Personally, I would love a clamshell type iPhone, but I know it won't happen.

koobcamuk
May 29, 2008, 02:44 AM
Well, adding Felica technology to the new iPhone will raise the cost, right? And since Apple doesn't make region-specific products (besides keyboards, of course) they will be selling the same hardware (the same 3G iPhone) worldwide, right? So, why should people in every country have to pay for something that only Japanese people can use? It just doesn't make sense. ;)

You mean like the US-specific features that are with .mac, ichat and many other subtleties hidden with all things Apple?

Yep, it's true: Here is an English source (http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/05/01/lg.prada.in.japan/) for the story.

I completely agree it highly unlikely that Apple would go with NTT if they are carrying the Prada because as you said its definitely an iPhone ripoff.

It could be a preemptive strike on some backroom deal between Softbank and Apple OR a breakdown/walkout in the NTT-Apple iPhone negotiations.

But you never know. The bit in that story about the Prada's being slated for sale primarily in Prada stores and not NTT retail outlets is concerning. If its that low profile (and high end) Apple might not give a toss.

I've got my finger crossed anyway. ;)

O2 in the UK have both those phones, and even more in terms of iPhone rip-offs. Remember that the US market is very different to the UK market, which is similar but different to the Japanese market. Listed in terms of quality. USA being worst for mobile technology.

This is going to be an interesting one. I bet it'll be massively delayed. 2009 will be too late in my mind. The 912SH I have is a great phone... I only miss flicking though photos, but even then, I prefer doing that on my new MBP...

mavis
May 29, 2008, 03:12 AM
You mean like the US-specific features that are with .mac, ichat and many other subtleties hidden with all things Apple?Actually, that's not at all what I mean. There's a big difference between offering different services based on location and manufacturing different hardware based on location. ;)
The 912SH I have is a great phone... I only miss flicking though photos, but even then, I prefer doing that on my new MBP...Then again, I doubt that MBP fits in your pocket. Which is the whole point.

BiginJapan
May 30, 2008, 01:05 AM
********** Japan. A quick Google search reveals that the LG Prada, which retails for nearly $900USD here, is going for $300-400 in other countries.

We are so gonna get screwed on iPhone pricing. :mad:

Are you sure that's not more due to the well-documented weakness the Japanese have for luxury branding? I mean, I'm sure if Louis Vuitton put out a phone here (cases, yes, phones, not yet) they could easily charge twice what they did anywhere else.

I'm trying to stay optimistic about the iPhone pricing here. ;)

But I'll use any piece of crap from three years ago before I shell out even one yen for a Prada phone. Please. (The L.V. phone can't be far away. Gag.)

I'm finding it very difficult to imagine how Apple's going to market an iPhone here that doesn't have some specifically Japanese adaptations made. I think the keyboard analogy is a good one, even if the with the keyboard it's a largely superficial adaptation -- it's important. There are enough significant differences (both linguistic and otherwise) in the ways Japanese use their cell phones that it seems like trying to sell the same model as the in U.S. or Europe, 3G or no, will be hard indeed. And no, I don't think comparisons to the iPod stand -- Japanese people have a distinctive set of behaviors tied to their phones which do not correlate to those for MP3 players.

BiginJapan
May 30, 2008, 01:14 AM
I am more concerned about the 日本語 input.

Yeah, this is a key issue for me, too, as I've noted before.

a standard ケータイ has large buttons and is very quick to type on...

Huh?? Do you perchance have very small hands? It's damn nigh impossible for me to find a phone whose buttons don't cramp my thumbs with even moderate texting use... This was one of the things I really LIKED about the iPhone when I played with it back home...

Personally, I would love a clamshell type iPhone, but I know it won't happen.

I agree -- that would be very cool, since one of my other big concerns about the iPhone is how I'm not going to scratch the hell out of the screen (since I find phone cases a ridiculous bother). I also agree that it's pretty much out of the question.
(Actually, now that I think of it, a flip-front case wouldn't be THAT different from having a clamshell... if it were a sort of floppy clamshell...)

mavis
May 31, 2008, 07:53 AM
Are you sure that's not more due to the well-documented weakness the Japanese have for luxury branding?Pretty sure that's not it, unless you can count Sharp as a "luxury brand" - the latest Sharp mobile is retailing for $1100USD, and my year-old, no frills plastic POS Sharp is going for $700. So no, I don't think it's just a matter Japanese people liking luxury brands. More a matter of the locals being ignorant as to the actual value of products. $20USD for a dozen Krispy Kremes, anyone? ;)

TheFreshPrince
May 31, 2008, 10:55 AM
I just saw this Sharp phone on TV that DoCoMo is releasing in a few days:
http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/product/foma/906i/sh906i/index.html

It has a touch screen and you can swipe across the screen to go to the next photo just like the iPhone/Touch. Seems to copy a lot of features from the iPhone actually. Hopefully this means that Softbank is getting it instead!

TheFreshPrince
May 31, 2008, 11:02 AM
Ooooh, and Softbank has a special live net broadcast about their summer phone lineup and new services coming up on Tuesday:
http://mb.softbank.jp/mb/special/08summer/?cc_1088=

Could this finally be the announcement we've all been waiting for?:rolleyes:

mavis
May 31, 2008, 06:27 PM
Seems to copy a lot of features from the iPhone actually.If there's one thing Japanese manufacturers are good at, it's copying foreign innovations and improving on them. Motorola makes a flip phone, and pretty soon all phones makers in Japan transition from candybar to clamshell designs. Nokia makes a slider, and soon every Japanese phone manufacturer has followed suit. Motorola's Razr is immensely popular overseas, and suddenly it's cool to have a thin phone here in Japan too (seriously, they went from 25mm thickness to 11mm, practically overnight) ... Along the way, they tend to cram in more features (for example that phone you linked to has GPS and a 5MP camera) but I still see a plastic, disposable phone when I see those things. Not to mention SIM-locked, non-expandable (apps, I mean) and ridiculously overpriced. ;)

Anyway, I hope more Japanese companies come up with iPhone clones. It may prompt Apple to add more features to future models ('if the Japanese can do it, why can't Apple?') ... :D

yoyo5280
May 31, 2008, 06:32 PM
Ooooh, and Softbank has a special live net broadcast about their summer phone lineup and new services coming up on Tuesday:
http://mb.softbank.jp/mb/special/08summer/?cc_1088=

Could this finally be the announcement we've all been waiting for?:rolleyes:

OMGOMG I can't wait to see what they have instore. I have been waiting for the summer models for a while.


I am getting my n73 soon I think. I hope I don't regret.

I doubt however that they will release iPhone in Japan before apple says its going 3g...right?

mavis
May 31, 2008, 06:40 PM
I doubt however that they will release iPhone in Japan before apple says its going 3g...right?Yeah, but Apple's going 3G in like, a week? Two weeks? Besides, these 'summer collection' announcements are always just hype-building sessions. There's NEVER immediate availability. So the timing works out just fine. In fact, the 3G iPhone will probably be available - at least in the rest of the world - before the stupid 'summer collection' phones are. ;)

BiginJapan
Jun 1, 2008, 12:22 AM
If there's one thing Japanese manufacturers are good at, it's copying foreign innovations and improving on them. Motorola makes a flip phone, and pretty soon all phones makers in Japan transition from candybar to clamshell designs. Nokia makes a slider, and soon every Japanese phone manufacturer has followed suit. Motorola's Razr is immensely popular overseas, and suddenly it's cool to have a thin phone here in Japan too (seriously, they went from 25mm thickness to 11mm, practically overnight) ... Along the way, they tend to cram in more features (for example that phone you linked to has GPS and a 5MP camera) but I still see a plastic, disposable phone when I see those things. Not to mention SIM-locked, non-expandable (apps, I mean) and ridiculously overpriced. ;)

I tend to agree... but aren't you sort of contradicting yourself here? First you say that Japanese manufacturers are good at copying foreign innovations and improving on them (which is sometimes the case, but IMO usually what J. manufacturers do is make more affordable versions while maintaining high overall quality standards), but then finally you say that the end result in cell phones is disposable PsOS -- about which I totally agree, but which certainly doesn't sound like "improvement" at all. Take the Motorola example. I used to have a Motorola clamshell I used when in the States (before the advent of global roaming). It was actually made of brushed stainless steel -- virtually indestructible, excellent sound... the screen and text capacities were still years behind the J models of the time, but still arguably a better phone, and still my favorite of all the cell phones I've ever owned. The Japanese versions that aspire to basically look like it, although some of them do from a distance, up close are in fact cheap, plastic, PsOS, for which exorbitant prices are charged. As for all the other features, well... half of them seem only to be "sales points" which no-one actually uses, and the other half tend to work about half as well as they seem like they should.

The case seems more extreme with Apple products, and not limited to Japanese imitations. Why is it that whenever someone decides to rip off an Apple product, be it Microsoft, Sony, or whoever... the end result just seems to be a) uglier and b) harder to use? I mean even this Prada phone. Prada is a fashion design company, for god's sake. I had a look at the phone, and it's just kind of, well, ugly! Ditto for the interface on this new DoCoMo touch screen. It's the designers are functionality-impaired and have had anything like a sense of aesthetics surgically removed somehow.

You know, I'm sure I'd buy more non-Apple products if they weren't so uniformly unappetizing. But Apple puts in the effort, and everybody else just tends to come off looking like lazy hacks who don't deserve my money.

BiginJapan
Jun 1, 2008, 12:45 AM
Pretty sure that's not it, unless you can count Sharp as a "luxury brand" - the latest Sharp mobile is retailing for $1100USD, and my year-old, no frills plastic POS Sharp is going for $700. So no, I don't think it's just a matter Japanese people liking luxury brands. More a matter of the locals being ignorant as to the actual value of products. $20USD for a dozen Krispy Kremes, anyone? ;)

Are you serious... a GRAND? That's insane. As I've mentioned before, I've never paid more than a small amount for a new phone -- and I've always kept the old one in case the new one got lost or broken. Once I just didn't like the new one after using it for a while, and went back to the older model.

I think the luxury-brand-fixation and the ignorance-of-actual-value issues are basically the same thing. Krispy Kreme essentially functions as a "luxury brand" in Japan, just like delivery pizza. The people have been sold on the idea that these things are worth a certain amount of money, and thus the market will bear those prices. There's no reason why a "large" (U.S. residents, read "small" or "medium") pizza needs to cost 2500 + yen, yet people happily pay it -- but also feel like they're having a zeitaku eating experience. The same goes for fried chicken... I've tried to explain to Japanese friends how incredibly cheap-assed and deeply sad it would be to have take-out chicken for Christmas dinner in America... but they don't seem to get it. Take-out fried chicken is luxurious, somehow, maybe just due to its foreign cachet. (Just in case you've ever had this same conversation, I've found the following analogy effective: "Imagine buying convenience-store sandwiches for your New Year's Day meal together with the family.")

Now, I don't actually think that Apple receives a lot of this automatic foreign cachet. In fact, I've met any number of Japanese who seem to think that Apple is a Japanese company, and ask questions like, "Do you have iPods in America?" :eek::confused:

Anyway, I digress. I shall in any case be heeding your warning and setting aside a full 10万 for my iPhone, should I decide to buy it.

mavis
Jun 1, 2008, 04:00 AM
I tend to agree... but aren't you sort of contradicting yourself here? First you say that Japanese manufacturers are good at copying foreign innovations and improving on them (which is sometimes the case, but IMO usually what J. manufacturers do is make more affordable versions while maintaining high overall quality standards), but then finally you say that the end result in cell phones is disposable PsOS -- about which I totally agree, but which certainly doesn't sound like "improvement" at all.I said 'improvements' because technically that's what they are - evolutionary improvements (from 3MP to 5MP cameras, etc) ... In the end though, they're still overpriced, disposable plastic phones.
Take the Motorola example. I used to have a Motorola clamshell I used when in the States (before the advent of global roaming). It was actually made of brushed stainless steel -- virtually indestructible, excellent sound... the screen and text capacities were still years behind the J models of the time, but still arguably a better phone, and still my favorite of all the cell phones I've ever owned.Funny you should mention the v60 - I helped test that phone for Motorola prior to its American launch, and was actually given two or three of them at the end of the trial (which I promptly sold at about $300 each, IIRC) ... heh ... That was a good lookign phone, to be sure.
You know, I'm sure I'd buy more non-Apple products if they weren't so uniformly unappetizing. But Apple puts in the effort, and everybody else just tends to come off looking like lazy hacks who don't deserve my money.You're right about the aesthetics, but don't forget the functionality - I don't know what some of these engineers at Panasonic and Toshiba are smoking, but some of the choices they've made when it comes to UI are just pathetic - downright TERRIBLE.

JapanScott
Jun 2, 2008, 08:40 AM
Are you serious... a GRAND? That's insane. As I've mentioned before, I've never paid more than a small amount for a new phone -- and I've always kept the old one in case the new one got lost or broken. Once I just didn't like the new one after using it for a while, and went back to the older model.

I think the luxury-brand-fixation and the ignorance-of-actual-value issues are basically the same thing. Krispy Kreme essentially functions as a "luxury brand" in Japan, just like delivery pizza. The people have been sold on the idea that these things are worth a certain amount of money, and thus the market will bear those prices. There's no reason why a "large" (U.S. residents, read "small" or "medium") pizza needs to cost 2500 + yen, yet people happily pay it -- but also feel like they're having a zeitaku eating experience. The same goes for fried chicken... I've tried to explain to Japanese friends how incredibly cheap-assed and deeply sad it would be to have take-out chicken for Christmas dinner in America... but they don't seem to get it. Take-out fried chicken is luxurious, somehow, maybe just due to its foreign cachet. (Just in case you've ever had this same conversation, I've found the following analogy effective: "Imagine buying convenience-store sandwiches for your New Year's Day meal together with the family.")

Now, I don't actually think that Apple receives a lot of this automatic foreign cachet. In fact, I've met any number of Japanese who seem to think that Apple is a Japanese company, and ask questions like, "Do you have iPods in America?" :eek::confused:

Anyway, I digress. I shall in any case be heeding your warning and setting aside a full 10万 for my iPhone, should I decide to buy it.

It is truly incredible how hung up the culture is on 'brands' and how willingly they are to pay exorbitant prices. Bread, fruit, services... whatever. It's all over priced and over accepted (?)

JapanScott
Jun 3, 2008, 04:14 AM
Ooooh, and Softbank has a special live net broadcast about their summer phone lineup and new services coming up on Tuesday:
http://mb.softbank.jp/mb/special/08summer/?cc_1088=

Could this finally be the announcement we've all been waiting for?:rolleyes:

I watched most of this today. Didn't see anything... errrr, I didn't see anything about the iPhone. Maybe it is yet to come.

mavis
Jun 3, 2008, 06:04 AM
I watched most of this today. Didn't see anything... errrr, I didn't see anything about the iPhone. Maybe it is yet to come.Yup, another in a long string of keitai-related disappointments from this fine country. Major shock ... :rolleyes:

yoyo5280
Jun 3, 2008, 06:30 AM
You don't like it here do you...?

mavis
Jun 3, 2008, 09:15 AM
You don't like it here do you...?No, I'm not a big fan of Japan. The country is OK (I know there are worse places to be, although this is as close to third-world as I have ever experienced first hand) and some of the locals are friendly enough, it's just that I HATE Japanese companies and the mindless automatons who work for them (numerous examples available upon request, more on that below). And the fact that the locals tolerate such a high level of incompetence because it's all they've ever known annoys me even more. I was really hoping that having access to the internet (ie, instant global communication) would enlighten the general public, but unfortunately most people think the 'internet' is the watered-down, spoon-fed portal crap that they get through their technically advanced, yet remarkably useless mobile phones. I use the word useless kind of loosely, of course, mainly due to the fact that despite all their advances, Japanese phones STILL lack real email clients, the ability to install any non-Japanese Java apps, or the ability to play non-DRM music with their built-in media players, etc ...

But hey, that's just my opinion. And this is hardly the place to get into it. But if you want to buy me a beer sometime, I'd be happy to discuss it further. ;)

SaSaSushi
Jun 3, 2008, 09:23 AM
No, I'm not a big fan of Japan.

Why in god's name are you here?

But hey, that's just my opinion. And this is hardly the place to get into it.

Absolutely right on that count.

But if you want to buy me a beer sometime, I'd be happy to discuss it further. ;)

Nah, It was enough for me just to read your off-topic xenophobic rant.

It's fine to feel that way I guess but why someone who did would chose to live here is a bit perplexing. No one's stopping you from leaving, are they? :p

If anything, the advent of the Internet and cellphones have been a major negative influence on Japanese culture in my opinion. I arrived here before both, 15 years ago. I think the keitai addiction is a major illness. It's not limited to Japan either, just worse here. I see it in the states when I'm home too.

People used to have a whole lot more actual human interaction. ;)

Oh, and the Internet is hardly a place you want to go to seek enlightenment by the way. Ee gads. :eek:

The iPhone's a cool device and I'd like to get one if they release it here in 3G to replace the cellphone I'm using now. However, it is hardly the center of my existence. I watched from afar the iPhone mania last year in the states at its release with dismay. It was a bit scary to see people get that manic (lines around the block at Apple Stores, etc, camping out a week in advance) over a gadget.

The phrase "get a life" sprang to mind. :rolleyes:

liminality85
Jun 3, 2008, 01:10 PM
If anything, the advent of the Internet and cellphones have been a major negative influence on Japanese culture in my opinion. I arrived here before both, 15 years ago. I think the keitai addiction is a major illness. It's not limited to Japan either, just worse here. I see it in the states when I'm home too.

People used to have a whole lot more actual human interaction. ;)

Oh, and the Internet is hardly a place you want to go to seek enlightenment by the way. Ee gads. :eek:

The iPhone's a cool device and I'd like to get one if they release it here in 3G to replace the cellphone I'm using now. However, it is hardly the center of my existence. I watched from afar the iPhone mania last year in the states at its release with dismay. It was a bit scary to see people get that manic (lines around the block at Apple Stores, etc, camping out a week in advance) over a gadget.

The phrase "get a life" sprang to mind. :rolleyes:

I agree with you that the internet and cellphones have a negative impacted on Japan. Its a insane how alot of my friends here would rather message each other than go out and talk. Guys in Japan have it the worse from my experience here so far. And the Keitai is insanely addictive, I know. Before when I use to live in the States I would rarely use my cellphone, but since I've been in Japan my keitai has never left my side for more than 15 minutes or so. I message about 120 times a day(thats just sending message, not receiving), always on the internet and always checking my gps(kumamoto ken has the crappiest roadways). And I feel I could not enjoy/live without my keitai in Japan.

About the iphone, I would of loved for it to come out through Softbank(because I have Softbank), but i'm not surprised that it didnt. I think it will be a hate it or love it thing in Japan. One: because people seem to want the smallest and cutest phones(Just like ipods), two: no cellphone straps(hehe had to be said), three: there are alot of things that it will need just to equal some of the standard keitai's and if they dont have it people may not want it.
Like 1seg, I use it everyday on my 1+ hour trip to kumamoto for school and work, and so do many others. osaifu keitai, comes in very handy when I realize I dont have enough money at some places or am to lazy to get the exact change out. And the big thing is the camera on the keitai. the quality in japan on cellphone cameras are amazing, and people use their cellphone camera more than their other ones. and for the iphone to have anything less than 3.0 mp will be bad. Also sekigaisen(Infrared data transfer), got to have that.

But I do like the iphone, because its different. I just could not give up the phone I have now. If I could get one really cheap if they were to come out, I would buy it and use both.

DiamondMac
Jun 3, 2008, 03:00 PM
Many of you make great points about how different one culture is from another.

Having spent months on the other side of the world, my eyes were opened to seeing multiple countries and how different they and their people are in terms of everyday activities, etc....

I do think though that the iPhone means more/less to different people. For me, the iPhone is something to go crazy for as I use the iPod daily, EMAIL minutely, pictures weekly, and calender secondly :)

mavis
Jun 3, 2008, 03:28 PM
Why in god's name are you here?I have my reasons, but 1) they're hardly relevant to this thread and 2) they're really none of your business. :rolleyes:

Nah, It was enough for me just to read your off-topic xenophobic rant.

It's fine to feel that way I guess but why someone who did would chose to live here is a bit perplexing. No one's stopping you from leaving, are they?Calling my rant xenophobic is rich considering where it is that we live, don't you think? That actually made me laugh out loud. Just for kicks, you ought to try googling the words xenophobic and Japan together, and see how many pages come up. ;)

However, I really don't think this is the place for that discussion (and for someone who supposedly agrees on that count, you seem to continue to want to beat this horse) ... :confused:

yoyo5280
Jun 3, 2008, 05:05 PM
No, I'm not a big fan of Japan. The country is OK (I know there are worse places to be, although this is as close to third-world as I have ever experienced first hand) and some of the locals are friendly enough, it's just that I HATE Japanese companies and the mindless automatons who work for them (numerous examples available upon request, more on that below). And the fact that the locals tolerate such a high level of incompetence because it's all they've ever known annoys me even more. I was really hoping that having access to the internet (ie, instant global communication) would enlighten the general public, but unfortunately most people think the 'internet' is the watered-down, spoon-fed portal crap that they get through their technically advanced, yet remarkably useless mobile phones. I use the word useless kind of loosely, of course, mainly due to the fact that despite all their advances, Japanese phones STILL lack real email clients, the ability to install any non-Japanese Java apps, or the ability to play non-DRM music with their built-in media players, etc ...

But hey, that's just my opinion. And this is hardly the place to get into it. But if you want to buy me a beer sometime, I'd be happy to discuss it further. ;)
I respect that. Id be happy to hear more later, but I don't drink ;)

SaSaSushi
Jun 3, 2008, 06:12 PM
I have my reasons, but 1) they're hardly relevant to this thread and 2) they're really none of your business. :rolleyes:

They're your business until you start to spout your bigoted rhetoric in a public forum. Then they're anybody that wants to respond's business.

Calling my rant xenophobic is rich considering where it is that we live, don't you think? That actually made me laugh out loud. Just for kicks, you ought to try googling the words xenophobic and Japan together, and see how many pages come up. ;)

Xenophobia works both ways. Try looking up the word in a dictionary and not Google. ;)

xenophobia |ˌzēnəˈfōbēə; ˌzenə-|
noun
intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries : racism and xenophobia are steadily growing in Europe.

If your hatred is limited solely to the Japanese and not all "foreigners" then my apologies, you're just a bigot.

SaSaSushi
Jun 3, 2008, 06:20 PM
About the iphone, I would of loved for it to come out through Softbank(because I have Softbank), but i'm not surprised that it didnt.

Well, it hasn't come out at all yet here. There is still a chance Softbank will be the carrier. :D

mavis
Jun 3, 2008, 11:15 PM
erroneous assumptions, etc
You know, it's really flattering that you're so interested in what I have to say, but your assumptions are incorrect and besides, this isn't the place for personal attacks. Thanks anyway, though. ;)

armageddon
Jun 4, 2008, 01:51 AM
The iPhone has been announced for Japan. SoftBank will be the provider.

http://www.softbankmobile.co.jp/en/news/press/2008/20080604_01/

yoyo5280
Jun 4, 2008, 02:11 AM
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!! I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!

THATS GREAT. Why isnt this making the front cover?

SaSaSushi
Jun 4, 2008, 02:25 AM
You know, it's really flattering that you're so interested in what I have to say, but your assumptions are incorrect and besides, this isn't the place for personal attacks. Thanks anyway, though. ;)

If pointing out that someone who believes Japan to be the closest place to a third world country he's ever been, populated with incompetent, mindless automatons might be a tad on the prejudiced side amounts to a personal attack then guilty as charged. :o

I already told you I don't really give a rat's behind. I just happened to wonder aloud why you wouldn't leave if you hate it here so much. :p

SaSaSushi
Jun 4, 2008, 02:26 AM
The iPhone has been announced for Japan. SoftBank will be the provider.

http://www.softbankmobile.co.jp/en/news/press/2008/20080604_01/

Great news! Now, if it is only reasonably priced and I have enough points stored up by the time it hits the streets I will be right on line.

Thanks for the link. :D

mavis
Jun 4, 2008, 03:08 AM
If pointing out that someone who believes Japan to be the closest place to a third world country he's ever been, populated with incompetent, mindless automatons might be a tad on the prejudiced side amounts to a personal attack then guilty as charged. :oGreat! And perhaps you'd also agree that this isn't the place for personal attacks. So, please do us ALL a favor, **** and move along ... :rolleyes:
The iPhone has been announced for Japan. SoftBank will be the provider.

http://www.softbankmobile.co.jp/en/news/press/2008/20080604_01/This is the news I've been waiting more than a year for!! Finally, a REAL mobile in Japan!!!! :D I hope they'll start selling it at the same time as the rest of the world, and I hope the 32GB model doesn't cost more than $1,000 because that's all I'm prepared to spend. I'm curious to see what kind of data allowances they offer, it'll (hopefully) be the first reasonable data package I've ever seen over here ...

SaSaSushi
Jun 4, 2008, 04:16 AM
Great! And perhaps you'd also agree that this isn't the place for personal attacks. So, please do us ALL a favor, **** and move along ... :rolleyes:

Is that the royal "us"?

By the way, it's against the forum rules to use inflammatory remarks like **** if you really want to get technical about it.

As for moving on I've as much right as you do to post here, but thanks for the moderation anyway. :p

SaSaSushi
Jun 4, 2008, 04:30 AM
I hope they'll start selling it at the same time as the rest of the world,

I wouldn't hold your breath. The 3G iPhone will be released at WWDC 08 and the verbage in the Softbank press release "later this year" does not make one think "in 2 weeks time". :p

But I actually agree with your sentiment here. I'm hoping for sooner rather than later too.

JapanScott
Jun 4, 2008, 04:48 AM
Softbank got it !!!!!!!! Now, let's just hope there is an affordable plan !!!!!

SaSaSushi
Jun 4, 2008, 06:03 AM
Well, the story is starting to get some media coverage (http://mdn.mainichi.jp/national/news/20080604p2a00m0na022000c.html) now. :D

mavis
Jun 4, 2008, 06:49 AM
Softbank got it !!!!!!!! Now, let's just hope there is an affordable plan !!!!!I'm leaning towards 'don't hold your breath' on that one, but I'd love to be wrong!!

BiginJapan
Jun 4, 2008, 07:49 AM
I'm leaning towards 'don't hold your breath' on that one, but I'd love to be wrong!!

My Softbank inside source says all she knows is "within the year" and no details yet. Breath-holding may indeed be ill-advised.

I'm rather glad I missed that whole flame-fest. Can we (and I do mean all of us, not the "royal we") please try to keep things if not totally 100% on-topic, then at least outside the realm of personal attacks?

PS While I think everybody likes to have a good gripe now and again, I love Japan, on the whole. Even the "automatons" who work for the megacompanies, although I do feel a bit sorry for them. And except for that punch-permed guy who hangs around the pachinko parlor near the station. I don't like him at all. Gives me the creeps.

mavis
Jun 4, 2008, 08:10 AM
My Softbank inside source says all she knows is "within the year" and no details yet. Breath-holding may indeed be ill-advised.Well, be sure to post back if she offers up anything interesting ... :)

SaSaSushi
Jun 4, 2008, 09:19 AM
My Softbank inside source says all she knows is "within the year" and no details yet. Breath-holding may indeed be ill-advised.

Did she happen to write that press release? It said the same thing. :p

I'm going to take a wild guess and say October release for the Japanese iPhone just so I can check back later and see how close I was. ;)

mavis
Jun 4, 2008, 09:27 AM
I'm going to take a wild guess and say October release for the Japanese iPhone just so I can check back later and see how close I was. ;)I don't know - EVERY carrier has said the exact same thing ('sometime this year') so it's pretty obvious that they're simply unable to commit to a date due to the fact that Apple hasn't even announced the damn thing yet. It may very well be October, but I imagine most of the world will have their iPhones this month.

SaSaSushi
Jun 4, 2008, 09:48 AM
It may very well be October, but I imagine most of the world will have their iPhones this month.

I hope you're right (and I'm wrong :p). I might be heading back to the states this summer and it would be nice to take an iPhone.

From the articles (http://www.macworld.com/article/133761/2008/06/iphone_japan.html) I am reading on today's news it seems like most of the US coverage is only interested in this story as reassurance that a 3G iPhone is indeed forthcoming.

BiginJapan
Jun 4, 2008, 11:39 PM
Did she happen to write that press release? It said the same thing. :p

Har har... no, not that one, but in fact that's the kind of thing she does, albeit in Japanese. My point being that people plausibly in a position to know at Softbank don't even know when, yet. Either that or she's just very serious about nondisclosure: she only let me know just before the press release!

Well, be sure to post back if she offers up anything interesting ...

But of course! That's the whole point of all this, isn't it? ;)
(However, further contraindications on breath-holding are in order; see above)

Anyway, may I just add a sincere "Yeeeeehaaa!" for Softbank clinching it. I really didn't want to have to switch to DoCoMo.

SaSaSushi
Jun 6, 2008, 12:22 AM
I just caught this interesting article (http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/news/2008/06/japan_phones) on Wired that indirectly relates to the pending release of the Japanese iPhone and how it might be received here.

They definitely share Mavis's UI complaints regarding Japanese cellphones. ;)

mavis
Jun 6, 2008, 02:18 AM
I just caught this interesting article (http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/news/2008/06/japan_phones) on Wired that indirectly relates to the pending release of the Japanese iPhone and how it might be received here.

They definitely share Mavis's UI complaints regarding Japanese cellphones. ;)
I think the iPhone will take off once people see first hand what it's capable of (remember that YouTube video last summer at an izakaya in Tokyo where the dude was showing off the photo browser on his new iPhone and everyone in the place was literally SCREAMING about how cool it was?) ... Yeah. Definitely a 'need to see' thing. Because the specs alone aren't going to sell it (and people here love to see mile-long spec sheets, like that article you linked to pointed out) :)

mavis
Jun 8, 2008, 01:44 AM
Hmm ... just had an interesting chat with a friend of mine.

According to my friend, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications (MIC, essentially the Japanese FCC) requires between two and three months to test all handsets sold in Japan. There are apparently websites which show test results for handsets currently being tested. Apparently the iPhone has not been mentioned yet, at all. So either Apple forgot to grease some palms over at the MIC (is there such a thing as an honest government official over here?), the iPhone still hasn't started testing (meaning it's still at least two to three months away from launch) or it has all been kept hush hush (meaning Apple did their homework and paid off all the right people) ... I'm leaning towards the second option, which unfortunately means I might be stuck with this POS phone of mine for much longer than I'd hoped ... :(

mavis
Jun 9, 2008, 02:19 PM
I'm glad to be so wrong about this!!!! ;)

According to Apple (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/06/09softbank.html), the iPhone 3G will be launched in Japan on the 11th of July! And since they've already promised a maximum worldwide price of $199, I think this thing is going to be flying off the shelves for quite some time. I only wish it was available in a 32GB configuration. :(

SaSaSushi
Jun 9, 2008, 05:13 PM
I'm glad to be so wrong about this!!!! ;)

According to Apple (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/06/09softbank.html), the iPhone 3G will be launched in Japan on the 11th of July! And since they've already promised a maximum worldwide price of $199, I think this thing is going to be flying off the shelves for quite some time. I only wish it was available in a 32GB configuration. :(

21000 yen here for the 8GB model?!

It's almost too good to believe considering an 8GB iPod Touch is like 34000 yen. I will most definitely be switching from my piece of crap Toshiba 811T. :D

How did they get around the long approval process?

mavis
Jun 9, 2008, 06:36 PM
Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.4 (pWN'd + JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

I'm glad to be so wrong about this!!!! ;)

According to Apple (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/06/09softbank.html), the iPhone 3G will be launched in Japan on the 11th of July! And since they've already promised a maximum worldwide price of $199, I think this thing is going to be flying off the shelves for quite some time. I only wish it was available in a 32GB configuration. :(

21000 yen here for the 8GB model?!

It's almost too good to believe considering an 8GB iPod Touch is like 34000 yen. I will most definitely be switching from my piece of crap Toshiba 811T. :D

How did they get around the long approval process?

I have no idea. Maybe it was just the right combination of drinking and soaplands. ;)

BiginJapan
Jun 9, 2008, 07:35 PM
I'm glad to be so wrong about this!!!! ;)

According to Apple (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/06/09softbank.html), the iPhone 3G will be launched in Japan on the 11th of July! And since they've already promised a maximum worldwide price of $199, I think this thing is going to be flying off the shelves for quite some time. I only wish it was available in a 32GB configuration. :(

Yeah...This is totally unexpected, in terms of timing and price.

I guess I'll settle for the 16 GB model. :p

Lord Nerdos
Jun 9, 2008, 11:36 PM
The lack of video chat may be a deal breaker for me. :mad:

zentraedi
Jun 10, 2008, 12:26 AM
Any word about pre-ordering? Will we be able to?

Do we have to wait in line at the Apple Store/Softbank location? If so, I hope they have enough stock. I don't want to be stuck waiting for months because I have to work on Friday.

mavis
Jun 10, 2008, 02:23 AM
The lack of video chat may be a deal breaker for me. :mad:Really?? I've had video chat available on every phone I've owned for the past three or four years, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've used it. Impossible to use in public unless you either 1) have a headset or 2) are good at lipreading low-resolution, choppy, pixelated video. Not to mention the fact that it's exorbitantly expensive (and certainly wouldn't be included in the iPhone's flat rate, unlimited data allowance even if the iPhone were capable of it) ... I guess people just think video chat on a mobile is cool because it works fairly well on your desktop. But they're not at all the same. ;)

Any word about pre-ordering? Will we be able to?

Do we have to wait in line at the Apple Store/Softbank location? If so, I hope they have enough stock. I don't want to be stuck waiting for months because I have to work on Friday.I called Softbank today and was told to check with the shop staff/manager at my nearest Softbank shop, as the decision to allow/not allow pre-ordering is apparently theirs to make. I'm in the same boat as you, the earliest I can get to a shop that day would be about 11:30am ... I swear, I'm gonna fly into a rage if they're already out of iPhones by then (considering that I've been chomping at the bit for this thing since it was first announced, eighteen months ago) ... ;)

SaSaSushi
Jun 10, 2008, 04:17 AM
I called Softbank today and was told to check with the shop staff/manager at my nearest Softbank shop, as the decision to allow/not allow pre-ordering is apparently theirs to make.

Sounds good. This is a case where I may have an advantage over you Tokyo guys being out in the sticks of Shikoku. I doubt many folks around here even know about the pending release or will be lining up for one. Then again, I'm sure they will have far less stock as well.

Apple Japan is mum on the issue with "details to come" and the release date and not much else on their iPhone info page (http://www.apple.com/jp/iphone/buy/).

cfs
Jun 10, 2008, 12:35 PM
If one buys an iphone in the US and pays early termination fee with Apple, and then moves to Japan, will they be able to use that phone with softbank?

Also, if one has a plan in the US and visits Japan, can one use wireless for free on 3g phone?

Cheers,

cfs

BiginJapan
Jun 11, 2008, 12:05 AM
If one buys an iphone in the US and pays early termination fee with Apple, and then moves to Japan, will they be able to use that phone with softbank?

If you bought a 3G iPhone, I'm almost absolutely sure you could -- all the 3G iPhones are going to be the same model. You'd have to get a new SIM card though, I believe.

Also, if one has a plan in the US and visits Japan, can one use wireless for free on 3g phone?

By "wireless" I assume you mean Wi-Fi... There isn't a whole lot of open Wi-Fi here in Japan yet... theoretically I suppose you could. But phone service would certainly be subject to global-roaming charges.

BiginJapan
Jun 11, 2008, 12:10 AM
The lack of video chat may be a deal breaker for me. :mad:

I'm with Mavis; F video chat.

It's got native Japanese/Chinese handwriting recognition. I'm ludicrously psyched. Someone get me a sedative.

jettoblack
Jun 11, 2008, 12:18 AM
If one buys an iphone in the US and pays early termination fee with Apple, and then moves to Japan, will they be able to use that phone with softbank?

You would have to find a way to unlock it, because the US phones will be locked to AT&T and won't work with a Softbank SIM. It remains to be seen if the 3G will be unlockable, and if so, how easily or what compromises will be made. Might be easier to just get a new iPhone from Softbank...

Also, if one has a plan in the US and visits Japan, can one use wireless for free on 3g phone?

No, the AT&T plan doesn't include any allowance for international usage, so you would be paying roaming fees per minute/KB to use it on another provider's network. You could use it for free on Wi-Fi, but public wi-fi hotspots are not that popular in Japan.

keirnna
Jun 11, 2008, 12:20 AM
Has anyone picked on up here? I am in crummy Okinawa and I doubt I will be seeing any here for over a month.

keirnna
Jun 11, 2008, 12:26 AM
You would have to find a way to unlock it, because the US phones will be locked to AT&T and won't work with a Softbank SIM. It remains to be seen if the 3G will be unlockable, and if so, how easily or what compromises will be made. Might be easier to just get a new iPhone from Softbank...



No, the AT&T plan doesn't include any allowance for international usage, so you would be paying roaming fees per minute/KB to use it on another provider's network. You could use it for free on Wi-Fi, but public wi-fi hotspots are not that popular in Japan.

All you would have to do would be to find a way to load Apple firmware for Japan instead of the US on the phone. Then you wouldn't need to unlock it. I am sure we will see unlocks within the month.

koobcamuk
Jun 11, 2008, 12:36 AM
No, I'm not a big fan of Japan. The country is OK (I know there are worse places to be, although this is as close to third-world as I have ever experienced first hand) and some of the locals are friendly enough,

Third world? What the hell??? :confused:

You should go to a third world country, and then come back to Japan and count your lucky stars.

BiginJapan
Jun 11, 2008, 01:27 AM
Third world? What the hell??? :confused:

You should go to a third world country, and then come back to Japan and count your lucky stars.

Personally, I rather like third-world countries. But you have a point -- Mavis, if this is as close to a third-world country as you've ever been, then you've never been anywhere close. On average, Japan is arguably more first-world than anywhere else in the world, except perhaps Scandinavia... and certainly more than many parts of the States. I've been through places in Appalachia that seemed positively third-world indeed.

What all this has to do with the iPhone is extremely tenuous.

BiginJapan
Jun 11, 2008, 01:34 AM
Has anyone picked on up here? I am in crummy Okinawa and I doubt I will be seeing any here for over a month.

...nor will anyone else. The release date is JULY 11, in case you missed that.

And by the way, at this point we're all talking about the 3G iPhone, which from all appearances in Jobs's recent WWDC keynote, will have the same firmware everywhere. Multiple language support included, that you can toggle on the fly... Sounds like heaven!

BiginJapan
Jun 11, 2008, 01:42 AM
Just one more thing... did y'all see that the "MobileMe" replacement for ".Mac" includes Push everything? Sweet. Calendars, contacts, email...

keirnna
Jun 11, 2008, 01:47 AM
Has anyone picked on up here? I am in crummy Okinawa and I doubt I will be seeing any here for over a month.

Oops I thought the release date was today not 7/11.

mavis
Jun 11, 2008, 02:26 AM
Third world? What the hell??? :confused:

You should go to a third world country, and then come back to Japan and count your lucky stars.Let's try to stay on topic. I don't want to get into a discussion about the dilapidated, run-down, filthy, disgusting, sweltering public buildings (schools, hospitals, etc) that I see every day here in Tokyo. Like I said, I know there are worse places in the world. I've just never seen one first hand in my short 32 years of life. ;)
Just one more thing... did y'all see that the "MobileMe" replacement for ".Mac" includes Push everything? Sweet. Calendars, contacts, email...Yeah, that's VERY cool. So cool, in fact, that I just signed up for a .mac family plan - I wanted to get decent user names for my wife and mother-in-law before all the Windows people start hopping on the bandwagon :D ... It'll make it a lot easier to be able to remotely administer my mother-in-law's contacts and calendar, since she (like many Japanese people her age) doesn't own a computer. Plus, the ability to add to a gallery using pics taken on the iPhone sounds pretty cool - a nice way for my family to see what we're up to if we take a trip, etc. My grandma will love it!

keirnna
Jun 11, 2008, 02:40 AM
Let's try to stay on topic. I don't want to get into a discussion about the dilapidated, run-down, filthy, disgusting, sweltering public buildings (schools, hospitals, etc) that I see every day here in Tokyo. Like I said, I know there are worse places in the world. I've just never seen one first hand in my short 32 years of life. ;)
Japan has plenty of run down places, but go to someplace like the Philippines and they you will really see poverty. I will be in Vietnam later this month and while I love Vietnam it reminds me how good we all have it.

mavis
Jun 11, 2008, 02:43 AM
Japan has plenty of run down places, but go to someplace like the Philippines and they you will really see poverty. I will be in Vietnam later this month and while I love Vietnam it reminds me how good we all have it.Thanks, but can we please just drop it? We're all entitled to our own opinions. Someone asked mine and I made the mistake of answering when I was in a bad mood and this thread has suffered as a result. Let's just move on!!! ;)

zentraedi
Jun 11, 2008, 06:36 AM
Just saw the post on Gizmodo Japan, and it seems like people are going crazy trying to preorder iPhones.

http://www.gizmodo.jp/2008/06/iphone_3g.html

Should sell pretty well here.

Unfortunately, that probably means it won't be readily available for a while. :(

mavis
Jun 11, 2008, 07:11 AM
Just saw the post on Gizmodo Japan, and it seems like people are going crazy trying to preorder iPhones.

http://www.gizmodo.jp/2008/06/iphone_3g.html

Should sell pretty well here.

Unfortunately, that probably means it won't be readily available for a while. :(
Fantastic, considering I won't be able to camp out for days in advance, let alone get to the store by opening time on the 11th. :rolleyes:

I almost wish the iPhone had been as expensive as I had thought it would be - at least that way there'd be less of a mad rush by everyone and their uncle to buy it on launch day!!! :mad:

SaSaSushi
Jun 11, 2008, 07:34 AM
Just saw the post on Gizmodo Japan, and it seems like people are going crazy trying to preorder iPhones.

http://www.gizmodo.jp/2008/06/iphone_3g.html

Should sell pretty well here.

Unfortunately, that probably means it won't be readily available for a while. :(

Saw one thing towards the bottom of that Gizmodo piece that was a bit disconcerting. It appears there is some scuttlebutt that one will not be able to use an iPhone on the famous White Plan but rather there will be a special iPhone-only payment plan with 5% call charge royalties going to Apple just like in the states.

Pardon me if this is common knowledge among you folks more "in the know" but as much as I'd love an iPhone it would probably be a deal-killer for me. The White Plan is a major reason I'm still with Softbank.

If that's the case I'll just hope for a new version of the iPod Touch that matches price drops with the iPhone. I don't care if they switch from the metal back to the new black plastic one if it means cheaper prices. ;)

mavis
Jun 11, 2008, 07:40 AM
If that's the case I'll just hope for a new version of the iPod Touch that matches price drops with the iPhone. I don't care if they switch from the metal back to the new black plastic one if it means cheaper prices. ;)Umm, I wouldn't hold your breath. The lower prices are the result of carrier subsidies, and since the iPod Touch has no carrier - well, that means no subsidies. ;)

As far as the service goes, I'm willing to spend up to about $100/month, as long as that includes unlimited data. I mean, that's what I'm spending now (and I'm on the White Plan, too!) ... In the US and UK, service including unlimited data starts at about $60-70, so we should be alright here.

Oh and BTW - Apple and AT&T have scrapped that 5% royalty system, in favor of the subsidy thing. So, I wouldn't put too much weight in that rumor on Gizmodo ... ;)

SaSaSushi
Jun 11, 2008, 07:43 AM
Umm, I wouldn't hold your breath. The lower prices are the result of carrier subsidies, and since the iPod Touch has no carrier - well, that means no subsidies. ;)

Oh, OK, I didn't know that. I assumed most of the price drop was due to changes in construction (like the new plastic back to replace the metal one).

Maybe I'll just buy an 8GB iPhone and use it as an iPod then. lol

mavis
Jun 11, 2008, 08:00 AM
Oh, OK, I didn't know that. I assumed most of the price drop was due to changes in construction (like the new plastic back to replace the metal one).

Maybe I'll just buy an 8GB iPhone and use it as an iPod then. lolI agree that cost was probably one factor in the decision to use plastic instead of metal, but actually I've read that another more compelling reason is due to reception - since metal blocks radio frequencies and plastic is RF transparent, Apple went with plastic to improve signal strength for 3G/wifi/BT/GPS signals. Quite a bit of RF going in and out of that thing!

Regardless, I would've loved a metal back like the first iPhone. Or at least a cubic zirconium shell (also RF transparent) like Apple has apparently patented.

keirnna
Jun 11, 2008, 11:12 PM
I think the metal back is too easy to scratch.

BiginJapan
Jun 11, 2008, 11:42 PM
I agree that cost was probably one factor in the decision to use plastic instead of metal, but actually I've read that another more compelling reason is due to reception - since metal blocks radio frequencies and plastic is RF transparent, Apple went with plastic to improve signal strength for 3G/wifi/BT/GPS signals. Quite a bit of RF going in and out of that thing!

Regardless, I would've loved a metal back like the first iPhone. Or at least a cubic zirconium shell (also RF transparent) like Apple has apparently patented.

Yeah, that was the only thing I didn't like about what I saw of the 3G iPhone -- that it's plastic, and it appears to be glossy, too. I would have preferred the metal back, too (I did consider the RF issues, though), or at least a matte black. But I'll deal -- probably put the thing in a case of some kind.

I think the metal back is too easy to scratch.

Easier than glossy plastic??

MacbookSwitcher
Jun 12, 2008, 12:17 AM
Any word on if iPhone in Japan will actually cost no more than $199 USD (21,000 JPY), as Steve Jobs said during the keynote? Since phones in Japan are so expensive, I'd be surprised if it actually sold for that cheap, so there has to be some catch (other than more expensive monthly fees)

Also, totally random question...
You guys know of a website where I can find a list of the most popular mobile phones being used by people in Japan?

mavis
Jun 12, 2008, 02:09 AM
Any word on if iPhone in Japan will actually cost no more than $199 USD (21,000 JPY), as Steve Jobs said during the keynote? Since phones in Japan are so expensive, I'd be surprised if it actually sold for that cheap, so there has to be some catch (other than more expensive monthly fees)Well, Apple has already said that $199 is the maximum GLOBAL price for the 8GB iPhone 3G, so I think you can count it being no more than about $199. ;)

Actually, the media here in Tokyo are saying it will cost 21,000Y or so - I don't know if they're just basing that on the $199 figure Apple has promised or if Softbank has 'officially' committed to that price - in either case, I don't think it's really up to Softbank - I have a feeling this is an Apple-dictated thing.

juno-j
Jun 12, 2008, 04:30 AM
Although the site is in Japanese, I think this web site will help you to find the most popular mobile phone in Japan. :)

http://kakaku.com/keitai/

I wanted to get an iPhone, but since it is with SoftBank, I have to give it up
until they will put many towers here.:(

Eastend
Jun 12, 2008, 07:04 AM
Although the site is in Japanese, I think this web site will help you to find the most popular mobile phone in Japan. :)

http://kakaku.com/keitai/

I wanted to get an iPhone, but since it is with SoftBank, I have to give it up
until they will put many towers here.:(

I believe this site is just going to show you the cost of the phone. It is not going to show you DoCoMos Plans or Softbanks plans, the plans are where they make their money. It will also not show all the discounts you can get or any acquired points you may have towards purchase. For example I had the same phone for almost 10 years, with my acquired points I purchased a 40,000 yen telephone for 5,000 yen. I purchased a family plan, our house has 6 telephones on the plan, when we call one of those phones it is free so we leave one at home at all times.
By the way Kakaku.com is great for all electronics products even stores use it in their shops, their is no reason to go to a shop with kakaku.com unless you need to see the real product,

keirnna
Jun 12, 2008, 07:42 AM
Although the site is in Japanese, I think this web site
I wanted to get an iPhone, but since it is with SoftBank, I have to give it up
until they will put many towers here.:(
Softbank really sucks here also. I was hoping that both DoCoMo and Softbank would pick up the iPhone.

mad cow disease
Jun 12, 2008, 07:55 AM
Although the site is in Japanese, I think this web site will help you to find the most popular mobile phone in Japan. :)

http://kakaku.com/keitai/

I wanted to get an iPhone, but since it is with SoftBank, I have to give it up
until they will put many towers here.:(

Curious, "here" is where? The remote edges of Hokkaido? I remember when I was in Japan Vodafone (at the time) had good coverage, even in the sticks of Hiroshima-ken.

keirnna
Jun 12, 2008, 07:56 AM
Curious, "here" is where? The remote edges of Hokkaido? I remember when I was in Japan Vodafone (at the time) had good coverage, even in the sticks of Hiroshima-ken.

Their coverage in Okinawa is awful.

Snowshiro
Jun 12, 2008, 12:03 PM
Well, Apple has already said that $199 is the maximum GLOBAL price for the 8GB iPhone 3G.

Actually, the media here in Tokyo are saying it will cost 21,000Y

A few clarifications:

The media is simply reporting the price that was announced in Jobs' keynote. They're not confirming that it will be 21,000. No one is.

In his speech Jobs specifically said "And in almost every one of these countries, the price is a maximum of $199" - note the almost every one part. While I believe it probably will be around the expected figure, there is no guarantee. At no time has Apple said that $199 will be the maximum global figure. This is just inaccurate reporting by bloggers.

I'm not sure why people will be surprised at the lack of a White Plan option. They're having to pay a hefty royalty to Apple to have the phone (one of the reasons DoCoMo couldn't come to an agreement). 980 yen a month would be ludicrously unrealistic.

mavis
Jun 12, 2008, 03:02 PM
In his speech Jobs specifically said "And in almost every one of these countries, the price is a maximum of $199" - note the almost every one part. While I believe it probably will be around the expected figure, there is no guarantee. At no time has Apple said that $199 will be the maximum global figure. This is just inaccurate reporting by bloggers.You're right, that is an important distinction. I wasn't aware that he worded it that way! Then again, maybe it's good that the media has jumped on the $200 figure - Softbank will look like the bad guy if they come out with a Japan-only price exceeding that. Finally, Japanese people will be aware of how much they're getting screwed over by their local businesses!! :D Not to mention the fact that at a higher price point, there will likely be fewer early adopters, meaning I might actually be able to get one on the 11th! ;)

I'm not sure why people will be surprised at the lack of a White Plan option. They're having to pay a hefty royalty to Apple to have the phone (one of the reasons DoCoMo couldn't come to an agreement). 980 yen a month would be ludicrously unrealistic.Well, Apple has shown they're not married to that revenue-sharing model. I would be surprised (not to mention somewhat disappointed in Softbank) to learn that they've got that kind of arrangement here. That said, you're right - expecting a $10/month plan for the iPhone is kind of asinine. I'm expecting to pay closer to about $100/month, but quite frankly I don't HOW much it is - all I want is unlimited data. I'll pay whatever they want for that. heh

mojopagoda
Jun 12, 2008, 06:46 PM
l am one of those "wealthy gaijin" :eek:referred to above and all my Japanese friends want an Iphone depending on pricing structure. Lots of people use their phones to play games on the train and listen to music - perfect for the Iphone- and alot of ppl update their phones pretty often so I think Iphone will be more than just a niche here. l am not feeling confident I will get mine on July 11th!

sushi
Jun 12, 2008, 07:31 PM
but some of the choices they've made when it comes to UI are just pathetic - downright TERRIBLE.
So true.

That has kept me from purchasing a new cell phone for quite a while.

It is truly incredible how hung up the culture is on 'brands' and how willingly they are to pay exorbitant prices. Bread, fruit, services... whatever. It's all over priced and over accepted (?)
Yep, part of the culture in the Tokyo/Yokohama area for sure.

Apple seems to be well received here in that regard.

this is as close to third-world as I have ever experienced first hand)
This gave me chuckle having been in third world countries. :)

I arrived here before both, 15 years ago.
Short timer! ;)

Things have definitely changed over the years Internet and cell phone wise.

Its a insane how alot of my friends here would rather message each other than go out and talk.
I find it interesting how you can see a group of HS girls, 3-4, walking down the street together but all on their cell phones talking to whomever. Some of the less popular will even have a beeper to call themselves so they are not left out.

I find that American's over here seem to be affected by the cell phone craze as well. I find it really rude when you are out at lunch and someone is continuously answering phone calls and text messages.

The iPhone has been announced for Japan. SoftBank will be the provider.

http://www.softbankmobile.co.jp/en/news/press/2008/20080604_01/
Depending on the plans they offer and the cost, I guess I may be converting from DoCoMo to SoftBank.

That said, you're right - expecting a $10/month plan for the iPhone is kind of asinine. I'm expecting to pay closer to about $100/month, but quite frankly I don't HOW much it is - all I want is unlimited data. I'll pay whatever they want for that. heh
I bet your $100/month cost will be close.

If my current plan is say $35, that means a $65 per month ($780 annual) increase. Not sure if it will be worth it at that price. I can use the $780 for other goodies and toys. :)

Then again, having the iPhone might be worth it.

juno-j
Jun 13, 2008, 12:15 AM
Curious, "here" is where?

It's far west of Kobe and the surrounding area. Vodafone coverage was also bad there.

SaSaSushi
Jun 13, 2008, 12:39 AM
That said, you're right - expecting a $10/month plan for the iPhone is kind of asinine.

Since I'm the only one who brought up the possibility that the iPhone will be exclusive of the White Plan I can only assume this was directed to me so let me ask you if we're going to start the personal insult thing again? I was biting my fingers to keep from piling on when others were calling you on your "third world" gaffe. ;)

For the record I am not expecting anything. In fact, if I am expecting something it is just that the iPhone will be exclusive of the White Plan since that's what the bit in the Gizmodo article indicated. :p

Like someone else above noted I have an entire family of phones on the White Plan. If I could just get an iPhone to replace the Toshiba I'm using now on the White Plan I would most definitely do it even if there was an added monthly charge to cover for Apple royalties, etc.

For me, PERSONALLY, I just don't value the iPhone highly enough to consider getting myself on a new payment plan exclusive of the rest of the family with whom I now communicate free of charge 24/7.

I don't fault you for having an entirely different opinion on the matter and I hope you enjoy your iPhone.

SaSaSushi
Jun 13, 2008, 12:42 AM
Short timer! ;)

Things have definitely changed over the years Internet and cell phone wise.

I was on 2400baud dialup with Compuserve when I first arrived here. ;)

Things have changed indeed. :D

If my current plan is say $35, that means a $65 per month ($780 annual) increase. Not sure if it will be worth it at that price. I can use the $780 for other goodies and toys. :)

Yeah, like a 16GB iPod Touch and $400 left over. lol

I'm beginning to think I'm with you, sushi. ;)

mavis
Jun 13, 2008, 07:56 AM
Since I'm the only one who brought up the possibility that the iPhone will be exclusive of the White Plan I can only assume this was directed to me so let me ask you if we're going to start the personal insult thing again? I was biting my fingers to keep from piling on when others were calling you on your "third world" gaffe. ;)I definitely wouldn't call it a 'gaffe,' as this is hands-down the filthiest, most run-down and decrepit city with the lowest standards of living I've ever seen; then again all I have to compare Tokyo to are a few dozen cities across the US and Canada. Which is why my exact words were "I know there are worse places to be, although this is as close to third-world as I have ever experienced first hand" ... That's my opinion and I stand by it 100%! Although, taken out of context the meaning changes considerably. But, I guess it's easier for people to point fingers that way. Anyway, moving right along: no - my comment wasn't directed at you at all! Although, now that you mention it ... ;)

Anyway, I think it's fair to say that we're probably going to have to pay through the nose for the privilege of owning an iPhone, but I'm prepared to do so. I won't be thrilled about it, by any means - but this is Japan, and I've found that living here often requires accepting ridiculous pricing. Like Krispy Kremes that cost 3x what they cost in the States, Japanese CDs that are cheaper to have imported from the States than buying locally (even though the CD has to be EXPORTED to the States, and then shipped BACK to Japan - seriously WTH!), camera lenses that are made in Japan that cost $1500 in the US but $2300 here, and the list goes on.

Softbank is gonna take us all to the cleaners!!! :D

SaSaSushi
Jun 13, 2008, 10:02 AM
I definitely wouldn't call it a 'gaffe,' as this is hands-down the filthiest, most run-down and decrepit city with the lowest standards of living I've ever seen; then again all I have to compare Tokyo to are a few dozen cities across the US and Canada. Which is why my exact words were "I know there are worse places to be, although this is as close to third-world as I have ever experienced first hand" ... That's my opinion and I stand by it 100%!

That's an interesting opinion.

Being a long term American ex-pat myself I'd really be curious to find out which cities in the US and Canada you're declaring Tokyo to be so decrepit, run-down and having the lowest standard of living in comparison to, lol.

Have you ever been to the poorer parts of L.A., Chicago, Detroit? How about the South Bronx?? West Baltimore, maybe? I've been to all of the above and Tokyo. Now, I'm not saying Tokyo doesn't have it's "seedier" areas but come on now can you really make such comments with a straight face?... :rolleyes:

Standing behind a gaffe doesn't make it any less of a faux pas.

I've found that living here often requires accepting ridiculous pricing.

Well, no question the average cost of living in Japan is much higher than that in the states. Nearly everything is more expensive but there are exceptions. Try getting 100MB/s fiber optic Internet anywhere in the states for a total of about $60/month. :p

Oh, and even though gasoline is $6.60 per US gallon here now by my calculations my family back home tells me gas just passed through $4/gallon and at the rate it's rising could hit $5/gallon there by the end of the summer.

Softbank is gonna take us all to the cleaners!!! :D

No, Softbank is going to take you to the cleaners. ;)

I'll get an iPhone only if it meets my economic criterion.

sushi
Jun 13, 2008, 10:42 AM
I was on 2400baud dialup with Compuserve when I first arrived here. ;)
I saw 300 Baud arrive here. A few years later, a 2400 Baud line was like gravy -- so cool.

Things have changed indeed. :D
Let's see, if my calculations are correct, downloading Mac OS 9.2.1 update (82MB), which took my buddies FTTH connection about 9 seconds, would take about 25 and a half days at 300 baud. Yes, you could say times have changed! :D

Yeah, like a 16GB iPod Touch and $400 left over. lol

I'm beginning to think I'm with you, sushi. ;)
Yep, can do so much with the cash left over.

One year is $780 ($65 x 12). In two years, you could almost pay for a MBA with the money saved. That is significant.

I am very curious to see what Softbank's plans are going to be. Not sure where my threshold of pain will be. I guess we will know soon enough.