Major iBook Upgrades?

[MacRumors]

AppleInsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=212) that the iBook will see major changes "in time" for the holiday season.

Updated iBooks are rumored to support the expected upgrades: Bluetooth and USB 2.0 which would bring the iBooks in line with the remainder of Apple's lineup. Other features noted include brighter displays, and improved graphics.

Most interesting are hints from AppleInsider of a completely new form-factor for the new iBooks, though details are scarce.

As previously reported (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030918162024.shtml), the most likely candidate for the upcoming iBook processor is the IBM 750GX, which features a top speed of 1.1GHz and 1MB of L2 Cache and is targetted for production in December 2003.

[Bunzi2k4]

sweet.... well if ibooks keep on getting better and better, i just might get one of those as my next computer rather than a powerbook.....

[pivo6]

I'm hoping that they can add these newer features and still keep the price where it's at.

[_The_Man_]

I hope they will fetaure a new design, the one used now is kind of boring. I ‘m saying that despite owining and using one. One of my friends even said it looks like a kitchen appliance. I think we shouldn‘t expect really large speed boosts, because Apple must keep the speed quite lower than those of the PBs.

[QCassidy352]

that'd be really sweet. I hope it doesn't make me regret getting a 12" powerbook! ;)

[rainman::|:|]

i would love a new form factor too, the thing that keeps me from looking at them now is that they're so ... i just don't like all the molded plastic. but then, i don't suppose they're going to use any other material... tho there are some plastic polymers that would be useful...

and yeah, they had better keep the price where it is, the iBook's price is a major plus for apple...

pnw

[Omek]

I think they'll put them up as close to 1Ghz as possible. They might even just give them the 1GHz which would be very cool. But what do I care, I'm posting this from a new 17" hehehehehe :D

[greenstork]

Maybe by the time that my new 12"PB is actually shipping, I could get an iBook. Apple just bump my shipping time today another two weeks to 10/15 and I'm feeling pretty burned but I should have known to expect this from Apple.

[the_dalex]

This is a no-brainer... the iBooks need to be brought up to speed, and every company knows that consumer-targetted products need to be out by Christmas.

A new form-factor? I imagine they aren't going to stray too far beyond using a new material and making it thinner, but they need to keep it differentiated from their pro line of Powerbooks. It can't be lighter or smaller.

The prices won't go up. If the iBook/Powerbook price gap gets any smaller, nobody will buy the iBook. Again, they need to keep sufficient differentiation.

[Dont Hurt Me]

if production of the chip is in december you wont see it this holiday season, lets just hope apple throws in the 1 gig g4 of course they will give it a crappy video chip so it dont compete with powerbook, same crap they have done to imac for years untill the g5. now g5's get crappy video cards too.( not talking the dual)

[sparks9]

I believe the rumors. I'm really looking forward to seeing the new design of the iBook, which really should be Apple's most popular computer (imo). I like the design as it is now, but a new one wont hurt.

[nagromme]

Brighter displays... is the 12" iBook not as bright as the current revised 12" PowerBook?

(I think 13" could be shoehorned into the current PowerBook 12" case... and would also make a great happy-medium size allowing iBooks to simplify on one form factor.)

[dstorey]

I quite like the design as it is, looks quite sleek, however as well as adding bluetooth (surely a must as it will allow apple to sell more mice/keyboards), AE etc I think it would be nice to reduce the size to 1 inch like the powerbook line. Even though it looks nice, the iBook just seems too chubby next to powerbooks. A reason why I wouldn't buy at the moment is the screen. the 12" is far too small and low res (though great for ultra portability if it was thinner) and the 14" is a no brainer, the res is exactly the same as the 12 -wack, whats the point. If they could increase the resolution of the 12" a bit without increasing the price and change the 14" to be based on the iMac's 15" screen (like the 17" powerbook) or even used a 15" widescreen (would be great but unlikely unless they can get cheaper ones than the one used in the powerbook) . The typical tablet swivle screen thing would be cool for education but unlikely as i guess they would have added this feature to the powerbooks if they were gonna do it.

[ThomasJefferson]

I have the ibook 600 and take it to school everyday. I think I have bumped into everything in the room with it, hate to miss an opportunity for abuse, and it has been durable, reliable and great for the basics + keynote presentations.

I love the form factor. But Apple is so gifted in this area (flowerpower and dalmation - excepting) that I have to look forward to what they come up with next.

I do not see a great leap in speed coming.

I expect a G3 at 1GHz and a new cheapo graphics card. They have to give some advantage to the powerbook 12". Right now, comparing the prices - I would not buy an ibook. The specs on the PB 12" and the price with the Ed discount is excellent.

Double-plus good.

[joephish]

Arrrrg just as I buy the 12" iBook!

Hmm, might use that 7-day guarantee thing :-)

[joephish]

How reliable is AppleInsider btw? Have they been accurate in the past? Or is this more likely to be educated guessing/speculation?

[Dont Hurt Me]

lets hope it dont look like a flatten cheesegrate, the styling of the g5's got me scared i hope this ISNT a theme that propagates through Macs.

[dswoodley]

Originally posted by joephish
How reliable is AppleInsider btw? Have they been accurate in the past? Or is this more likely to be educated guessing/speculation?


AppleInsider is pretty good for getting scoops right before the producsts are actually announced. Their long range forecases are not quite as accurate (but they do not seem to get into specifics for such predictions). Like every other site take it with a grain of salt (does anyone know what that cliche actually means/where it came from?)

[progx]

you figure with the G5 just being released and Apple is working on downsizing it for the PowerBook, you'd think the iBook G4 would be on the horizon.

the iBook and PowerBook were both at the G3 until the G4 came out.

if any of you are thinking of passing up a PowerBook for a iBook, don't. the PowerBook is still a faster portable than the iBook will ever be. the iBook is made to be consumer friendly, so if you're not going to do any type of major work on a portable, the iBook is more for you.

if you are a designer or doing anything that requires a little power and a load of memory, but you don't want a desktop, the PowerBook is for you.

for those who just ordered the 12" PowerBook, you won't be disappointed, the new iBooks will not be even close to it.

G3 does not have altivec, the G4 does.

the G4 is a glorified G3 w/altivec although.

wait for the iBook G4, it'll be out before the PowerBook G5.

[sushi]

Originally posted by dstorey
A reason why I wouldn't buy at the moment is the screen. the 12" is far too small and low res (though great for ultra portability if it was thinner) and the 14" is a no brainer, the res is exactly the same as the 12 -wack, whats the point.
When I first saw the 14 inch version, I was like you and could not understand why. However, now that I've had a few friends buy them and have found out why, it makes sense. Some folks don't have the best eyesight. The 14 allows them to comfortably see things where as the 12 is simply too small for them. This is especially true if you use your iBook to read a lot of material such as legal briefs.

Sushi

[Bunzi2k4]

Originally posted by dswoodley
AppleInsider is pretty good for getting scoops right before the producsts are actually announced. Their long range forecases are not quite as accurate (but they do not seem to get into specifics for such predictions). Like every other site take it with a grain of salt (does anyone know what that cliche actually means/where it came from?)

i'm not sure.... i know back then salt was like valuable.... but i dunno where that came from.........

[joephish]

Originally posted by dswoodley
take it with a grain of salt (does anyone know what that cliche actually means/where it came from?)

Um, well adding a grain of salt I suppose would make something taste slightly different/more interesting. So basically, don't rely on the flavour of the source itself - you should be wary that it will actually taste good, and so add salt to it just in case. If you see what I mean :-)

Aaaanyway.... thanks for the AppleInsider thoughts!

[gregdig]

Originally posted by dswoodley
Like every other site take it with a grain of salt (does anyone know what that cliche actually means/where it came from?)

Origin:
Salt is now an inexpensive and readily available commodity. But it was once very valuable due to its high demand as a food preservative and relative scarcity._

Salt was thought to have healing properties and to be an antidote to poisons. To take (eat or drink) something "with a grain of salt" was to practice preventive medicine. One would do this if they were suspicious that the food might be poisonous or may cause illness.

The phrase and meaning is thousands of years old, the Latin equivalent phrase is "cum grano salis".

from:
http://members.aol.com/MorelandC/HaveOrigins.htm

[dswoodley]

Originally posted by gregdig
Origin:
Salt is now an inexpensive and readily available commodity. But it was once very valuable due to its high demand as a food preservative and relative scarcity._

Salt was thought to have healing properties and to be an antidote to poisons. To take (eat or drink) something "with a grain of salt" was to practice preventive medicine. One would do this if they were suspicious that the food might be poisonous or may cause illness.

The phrase and meaning is thousands of years old, the Latin equivalent phrase is "cum grano salis".

from:
http://members.aol.com/MorelandC/HaveOrigins.htm

sweet...thanks!

[ibjoshua]

there's something wrong with my keyboard??

i_b_joshua

[Abstract]

Firstly, you won't see a completely new case design. It may be a different plastic, or they may go back to using the transparent case instead of the opaque, but they're not going to do anything drastic. How do I know? Because if something major was planned, SJ would just wait until MWSF in January and give a Keynote. Also, since the chip is being manufactured in December, the chip won't be ready for a few months after that.

If the update is at the end of October or beginning of November, then SJ isn't going to give us a drastically different iBook.

Also, they should stick to plastic, although not necessarily the "hospital white" plastic casing. Give me a grey case, or a blue one. At least sport several BTO case designs for a small fee, say $50.

Originally posted by pivo6
I'm hoping that they can add these newer features and still keep the price where it's at.

They have to. If they raised the price, they may as well call the iBook a "plastic powerbook". The prices can't be the same.

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
lets just hope apple throws in the 1 gig g4 of course they will give it a crappy video chip so it dont compete with powerbook, same crap they have done to imac for years untill the g5.

What other video cards can they use? The Radeon 7500 used in the current iBook is better than most notebooks, especially PC notebooks, and the Nvidia 5200 in the 12" PB is a bit better. What's in between that's so much better than the Radeon 7500?

Originally posted by dstorey
..... I think it would be nice to reduce the size to 1 inch like the powerbook line. Even though it looks nice, the iBook just seems too chubby next to powerbooks.

The 12" and 15" PB's aren't at 1 inch. The iBook really isn't much bigger than the PB's. Heck, the difference is 0.1 inches, which isn't an issue.

[dongmin]

Originally posted by dstorey
I quite like the design as it is, looks quite sleek, however as well as adding bluetooth (surely a must as it will allow apple to sell more mice/keyboards), AE etc I think it would be nice to reduce the size to 1 inch like the powerbook line. Even though it looks nice, the iBook just seems too chubby next to powerbooks. A reason why I wouldn't buy at the moment is the screen. the 12" is far too small and low res (though great for ultra portability if it was thinner) and the 14" is a no brainer, the res is exactly the same as the 12 -wack, whats the point. If they could increase the resolution of the 12" a bit without increasing the price and change the 14" to be based on the iMac's 15" screen (like the 17" powerbook) or even used a 15" widescreen (would be great but unlikely unless they can get cheaper ones than the one used in the powerbook) . The typical tablet swivle screen thing would be cool for education but unlikely as i guess they would have added this feature to the powerbooks if they were gonna do it.
for all those complaining about the design of the current iBooks, well, you're obviously in the minority b/c the current design is one of Apple's best sellers, ever. I've owned mine for 2.5 years and I still get comments from people (average joes and design professionals) on how slick, efficient, and functional the design is. It's one of the most stable designs Apple has had (virtually no change since it debuted). I trust Apple's design team to come up with something even better, but don't knock the existing design: people like it and it works.

The only major change I can forsee is Apple making this a wide-screen design. I think the width will stay the same (it's the narrowest you can get with having a full-sized keyboard) but it might get a little less deep. The screen can get stretch wide a bit, maybe another .75 inches. I'd love to see the 1152 x 768 resolution in the original TiBooks.

[murak]

iBook iBook iBook - Man do I whant one. Gimmey´ 1 ghz Gobi and Radeon 9000 and I will buy it. Perfect for me - Durable, long batterylife, greate OS and good enough for light gaming/retro gaming. About the formfactor I could care less, it´s still more atractive than most pezze laptops and there are no known issues about it. 1 mb cache... wow...


- quote -
Like every other site take it with a grain of salt (does anyone know what that cliche actually means/where it came from?)
- end quote -

My (swedish) gues is that if you ad a grain of salt, you dont get a specific result. So if you take Insiders rumor with a grain of salt, you´re not sertain what the truth may look like. My gues anyway..

By the way, I like this forum

[Kalvin]

Does anyone think the standard cd-rom in the $999 model will be upped to a combo or atleast dvd drive? I think Apple would sell alot more iBooks.

[punter]

Originally posted by the_dalex
This is a no-brainer... the iBooks need to be brought up to speed,

Hrm a lot of speed tests have the ibook900 as fast as the powerbookG4 867. Excluding altivec tests of course. (http://www.macspeedzone.com/html/hardware/machine/comparison/portable/powerbook/index.shtml)

If the ibooks went to 1.1GHz then I personally believe they would be well faster then the new 12"PB... which I ordered, but still hasn't arrived.

If it ends up having good dual screen support then I'll be kicking myself!

[QuiteSure]

No, the updated iBook won't have a G4. Apple just upgraded Final Cut Pro so that it won't run on a G3. For that reason alone, Apple will keep the iBook away from its "professional" market. If I could run FCP 4 on my current iBook I wouldn't even be thinking about getting a Powerbook.

BTW, somewhat OT: is there anyone out there running FCP 4 on a 12" PB? How do you like it? Is the screen/resolution expansive enough?

[arqsagi]

why this news today, i just get my new powerbook 15 from a 12 inch. ibook 500.
I think the design of the iboook is great but it needs something new to keep the buyers interested in this items of course bluetooth is a must in order to use apple wireless mouse and keyboard.

Just hope they dont get g4, if they do I dont know how am i going to feel after buying this expensive notebook.

I love my ex-ibook and my powerbook is just that apple must continue to focus them on different people ibook for students and home users and powerbook for pros and experience users

[legacyb4]

Due to time constraints, I went ahead and bought a new 12" PB with Superdrive.

In an nutshell, absolutely no regrets! This puppy is such a sweet machine and I can easily see myself holding onto it for a while. Wide-screen iBook is intriguing, but the size of the PB12 just can't be beat!

Cheers.

Originally posted by joephish
Arrrrg just as I buy the 12" iBook!

Hmm, might use that 7-day guarantee thing :-)

[macphoria]

1.1 GHz G3 with 1 MB L2 Cache!

The performance on this iBook is going to be quite decent.

[windwaves]

I mean the G4 is barely capable of running OSX and its apps decently, now Apple hopes to renew appetite for the iBook with a G3 !

Dudes ! I have an iBook 700mhz (or something around that) and it is a joke and I am not exagerrating, can barely handle a few pics in iPhoto ahahah.
Thank God i have a desktop and I only use the iBook for emergency .
I know some of you disagree: I WANT TO HEAR YOU ALL.

[flukewurm]

Originally posted by windwaves
I mean the G4 is barely capable of running OSX and its apps decently, now Apple hopes to renew appetite for the iBook with a G3 !

Dudes ! I have an iBook 700mhz (or something around that) and it is a joke and I am not exagerrating, can barely handle a few pics in iPhoto ahahah.
Thank God i have a desktop and I only use the iBook for emergency .
I know some of you disagree: I WANT TO HEAR YOU ALL.

wow.. your ibook must be seriously ****. :(

i can handle reason 2.5 in OSX on my friends ibook 500 - maxed ram EASILY....

[Jesus on OSX]

Originally posted by Kalvin
Does anyone think the standard cd-rom in the $999 model will be upped to a combo or atleast dvd drive? I think Apple would sell alot more iBooks.

I agree with this. The base model is just incomplete without CD-Rec capability.

The sad thing is, Apple is charging 200 extra for an upgrade of CD-RW/DVD component + 100mhz extra. Who needs the processor speed that little anyway? I had an ibook 800 and it didn't really differ in speed from my friend's 900mhz model.

It's 2003, they should realize that having the ability to record CDs and watch DVD media on the portables should be standard.

As for the absense of bluetooth, it's a BIG mistake. If you think about it, who uses iBooks for the most part? That's right, college students. What do 3 out of 5 college students have? Bluetooth enabled phones. (At least where I am.)

This is a huge marketing mistake. Doesn't take a genius to realize that sales are hurt by not having this kind of functionality standardized on one of the most important portables. If Apple doesn't integrate WiFi and Bluetooth in 12" one step above base models, I'll completely lose faith in them. Or maybe just add one of the optional values to the base model. Combo Drive or integrated WiFi.

[revenuee]

Originally posted by the_dalex


A new form-factor? I imagine they aren't going to stray too far beyond using a new material and making it thinner, but they need to keep it differentiated from their pro line of Powerbooks. It can't be lighter or smaller.



Why not smaller and thinner... the 12" PB is advertized as the being the worlds smallest full feature notebook. a smaller iBook would not be full featured.

1. i could see them throwing in a G4 in there
2. making it only expandable to 1 gig
3. throw in a better graphics card, but don't support dual display
4. USB 2.0 but no Firewire 800 - they did this in the 12 PB
5. bluetooth? maybe as an adaptor not build in
6. combo drive accross board?
7. Cache upgrade? probably
8. I could see them leaving out Gigabit ethernet
9. throw in airport extreme

pretty good specs for the consumer, but still not full featured when compared to the 12" pro line

sony released a smaller notebook, but it lacked many features. why not apple

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Macrumors
AppleInsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=212) that the iBook will see major changes "in time" for the holiday season.

Updated iBooks are rumored to support the expected upgrades: Bluetooth and USB 2.0 which would bring the iBooks in line with the remainder of Apple's lineup. Other features noted include brighter displays, and improved graphics.

Most interesting are hints from AppleInsider of a completely new form-factor for the new iBooks, though details are scarce.

As previously reported (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030918162024.shtml), the most likely candidate for the upcoming iBook processor is the IBM 750GX, which features a top speed of 1.1GHz and 1MB of L2 Cache and is targetted for production in December 2003.

usb 2.0?
i sure hope so

bluetooth?
take it or leave it

1.1 ghz?
now we are talking

new form factor?
i guess we will have to see it and i hope it's lighter in weight to keep with sony and others with a light form factor

maybe this will be my next upgrade:D

[mdntcallr]

Well, as everyone knows in order to get xmas sales companies plan earlier and earlier each year.

My thoughts are that if they really want xmas sales they should get the new ibooks out by the end of Oct, when they have the Itunes Windows Launch. and definitely by Nov 12th.

Apple, consumers buy these things BEFORE xmas, not within just that month.

Just want to get them moving. they have been sitting on their hands most of the year without much new product.

[thehuncamunca]

if they added USB 2, bluetooth, an airport extreme option, a 1GB max ram, perhaps a better graphics chip, a higher res screen or perhaps a 13 inch rather than 12, along with a slight speed boost and cost cut then i'd definately buy it when i hopefully get a laptop around x-mas
if not i don't see why not to spend the extra 200 as i have the educational discount to buy a much more featured 12" powerbook
i would think most people can see the powerbook is a much better value and i think apple knows this and will update the ibook's features and price according or have their ibook sales suffer

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by mdntcallr
Well, as everyone knows in order to get xmas sales companies plan earlier and earlier each year.

My thoughts are that if they really want xmas sales they should get the new ibooks out by the end of Oct, when they have the Itunes Windows Launch. and definitely by Nov 12th.

Apple, consumers buy these things BEFORE xmas, not within just that month.

Just want to get them moving. they have been sitting on their hands most of the year without much new product.

getting it out this month would be cool

call them the ibook 1000 and the ibook 1100 to designate the speeds and a way to denote the end of the mhz era for apple

and keep the price the same, or lower if possible

[dho]

the new features were to be expected, but i find the "new case" makes it sound like it could be interesting

this could be just in time for my birthday.

i do accept donations:D

[Sol]

If Apple wanted to update the iBook to a G4 all they would have to do is design a new case for the current 12" PowerBook. Limitations might be imposed such as no dual displays and VGA out but basically the two would be identical inside.

As for the new iBook case, perhaps now would be a good time to re-introduce colours. iBooks and iPods would definately look better in the coloured plastics Apple used with the CRT iMacs.

[bousozoku]

Everything about IBM's timeline says that this processor will not be ready in time for Christmas. They would have to be starting production now or earlier. It would most likely be just before spring before processors are upgraded.

I can see the USB 2.0 and the Bluetooth making it in there. Maybe they'll even make use of their colour-changing patent to give the iBook colour again.

They could really use a better keyboard and an enhanced display would be good. I don't see them changing the display size. The 12 inch is too good of a size for those who have good eyesight and the 14 inch display for those who can't or just insist that bigger is better.

[Plutoniq]

What makes y'all think that the 750GX aint ready already? These two CompactPCI companies are alreay selling products utilizing the 750GX;

http://www.momenco.com/products/puma-cgx.html

http://www.otisolutions.com/powerpc.html

You think these guy's would have "built & ready to ship" products utilizing the 750GX.......and apple has to wait until December? That's a laugh.....no way!!!! If Apple is going to release Ibooks for the holiday season, then they would have to be available late November to get the hype built up.

I think it'll be sooner than later

p'z

[Bunzi2k4]

what i'm starting to notice is, every one wants a price drop (no duh) much faster computer, super fast, usb 2.0, smaller, lighter , some people want a 13 inch notebook, but seriously guys.. i don' think anything special is comming out like a price drop i mean c'mon i think 999 is a good deal for a laptop, and if u really want a cd/dvd combo drive why not get an external? but anyways, really you can all think what you want, but you know there won't be a price drop, a 13 inch seems stupid to me, but i dunno... i like the 12 inch. Airport extreem seems like that will be there, and a bluetooth will probably be in there too. mayb 1ghz or a 1.1ghz not sure about l2 cache 1megabyte seems too good to be true... but then again maybe not... i just don't think that the ibook will have that many improvements because the g3's are getting too good for the g4's...

[Vonnie]

I don't think they will be making it allot thinner. They will probably make it sturdier, after all ibooks are sold allot to students and schools. Not the most laptop friendly environment. Offcourse, it should be compact, so it slides easily in a backpack.

The design will probably be young and hip, instead of the professional look of a powerbook 15".

Other than that, I just hope they improve the sound and the keyboard of the ibook. Add bluetooth, AE and usb2. Better graphics card, more ram capacity.

[dstorey]

We all know it's gonna have the standard upgrades (AE, bluetooth, graphics, usb2, processor) and be decked in a choice of white, flowerpower or dalmation ;)

Actually someone said before about I must be in the minority if i don't like the design. I never said I didn't! i said it looked sleek etc, but would look nicer if it was thinner and had a better display on the 14" . For the look of the machine (not counting size etc), the only thing, except for maybe a choice of patterns instead of just white (i don't think solid colours would look that nice), would be to make the inside match the outside of the machine. ie have the insside in white plastic as if it was all made from one piece of plastic. I'd still orefere the white one if they released pattern models, but I could see the likes of teenage girls and the japanese market lapping up them funky designs...how many would they sell in jappan with thomas burbery or hello kitty designs ;)

[hvfsl]

A lot of the girls at my Uni have ibooks, they say the ibook looks a lot better than most of the PC laptops out there. I was actually the only one that got a PB G4 (out of the people that got Macs)

[ThomasJefferson]

I predict new ibooks will be released early November and one color option will be a Panther-skin cover.
-growl

[Jon the Heretic]

Originally posted by Bunzi2k4
what i'm starting to notice is, every one wants a price drop (no duh) much faster computer, super fast, usb 2.0, smaller, lighter , some people want a 13 inch notebook, but seriously guys.. i don' think anything special is comming out like a price drop i mean c'mon i think 999 is a good deal for a laptop.

What you are "noticing" is a little thing called market pressure. The Wintel competition for laptops keeps adding features, getting faster, smaller and lighter and lowering the price -- all at the same time. The Wall Street Journal even had a recent article about sub-$999 notebooks. Some were in the >2Ghz range, had 14" LCDs, rewritable DVDs AND were somewhat cheaper than $999 (some were around $799 totally loaded). These loaded $799 laptops were a bit heavy, but strike the DVD burner and go back up to $999, light Wintel notebooks can be had even with the other features if you can settle for a mere CD-RW burner that is :)

Adding features and dropping the price is NOT irrational or unheard of. It is business as usual in the tech industry.

Apple does this too, although at a much slower rate than the Wintel companies, but they do understand that "more for less" is the rule in this industry even if they are much less aggressive in following it.

[SoonToGetAMac]

Maybe there will be new 12-in iBooks for the Holiday season, then at MWSF they will release a 13-in Widescreen, or a Superdrive, or some cool new feature. That way, they have the new case design over the holidays to spur lots of sales, then 2 weeks later, there will be a new member of the iBook family. So I think that it would be no big deal if Apple released it before holidays vs. at MWSF.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Jon the Heretic
What you are "noticing" is a little thing called market pressure. The Wintel competition for laptops keeps adding features, getting faster, smaller and lighter and lowering the price -- all at the same time. The Wall Street Journal even had a recent article about sub-$999 notebooks. Some were in the >2Ghz range, had 14" LCDs, rewritable DVDs AND were somewhat cheaper than $999 (some were around $799 totally loaded). These loaded $799 laptops were a bit heavy, but strike the DVD burner and go back up to $999, light Wintel notebooks can be had even with the other features if you can settle for a mere CD-RW burner that is :)

Adding features and dropping the price is NOT irrational or unheard of. It is business as usual in the tech industry.

Apple does this too, although at a much slower rate than the Wintel companies, but they do understand that "more for less" is the rule in this industry even if they are much less aggressive in following it.

very good point

when the ibook first came out, i bought mine, with cd-rom, for $1599 usd...and that was considered a deal

the ibook is now starting at $999 due to market pressure and the $799 wintels are bound to have an effect on ibook pricing at some point

apple still needs to keep margin high to survive so i couldn't imagine much less than $899 for now...the wintel world will always beat the macs on price but as long as apple can be somewhat close, then it will be ok

[FlamDrag]

I doubt that they'll go higher than 1.0 Ghz simiply because of public perception of the difference b/w 1.0 and 1.25 Ghz - even if they're different processors, many folks just don't pay attention to that stuff.

My 500Mhz G3 Powerbook (Pismo) at work runs OSX just fine.

I'm hoping for Airport Extreme soon, but in reality, I'm likely still 2 years from an iBook purchase (for my wife) and who knows what will happen by then?

Whatever they do, it's the price point that I hope statys the same.

1.0 Ghz
BT (optional)
AE (optional)
upgraded graphics
grey plastic case - that does make some sense.

That's all that I think that they need for now.

[revenuee]

If they upgrade the processor to a G4, which i don't think is that farfetched.

Will the current plastic material handle the heat? i mean IIRC, the reason they went to Ti in the first place for the g4 PB's is because it was the material that could handle the heat.


This is a little off topic but
One thing that really confuses me is the new PB are made of Al.

I remember watching the Ti promo video, and Jonothan Ive came out and said that the Ti was lighter and stronger then Al. Now, after watching the new PB promo, he was talking about the durability of this "airplane grade" Al.

Does anybody know the chemestry involved.

[Bunzi2k4]

Originally posted by Jon the Heretic
What you are "noticing" is a little thing called market pressure. The Wintel competition for laptops keeps adding features, getting faster, smaller and lighter and lowering the price -- all at the same time. The Wall Street Journal even had a recent article about sub-$999 notebooks. Some were in the >2Ghz range, had 14" LCDs, rewritable DVDs AND were somewhat cheaper than $999 (some were around $799 totally loaded). These loaded $799 laptops were a bit heavy, but strike the DVD burner and go back up to $999, light Wintel notebooks can be had even with the other features if you can settle for a mere CD-RW burner that is :)

Adding features and dropping the price is NOT irrational or unheard of. It is business as usual in the tech industry.

Apple does this too, although at a much slower rate than the Wintel companies, but they do understand that "more for less" is the rule in this industry even if they are much less aggressive in
following it.

I don't mean that, i just don't think anything BIG will happen i mean... that sounds too good to be true. Sure the ibooks could have a price drop, but then again, i think people will still buy the ibooks if it stays the same price... am i right? sure if they could change it to like 799, they would be better competition for the pc laptops, but don't get your hopes up if there isn't a price drop!

[JonL]

Originally posted by revenuee

Will the current plastic material handle the heat? i mean IIRC, the reason they went to Ti in the first place for the g4 PB's is because it was the material that could handle the heat.


This is a little off topic but
One thing that really confuses me is the new PB are made of Al.

I remember watching the Ti promo video, and Jonothan Ive came out and said that the Ti was lighter and stronger then Al. Now, after watching the new PB promo, he was talking about the durability of this "airplane grade" Al.

Does anybody know the chemestry involved.

The strength of both materials can vary widely depending on the alloy. As a rough generalization for the alloys that Apple might use, titanium has about twice the stregth of aluminum. Titanium has about 60% higher density than aluminum, so for the same thickness titanium weighs more than half again as much. Titanium is also about 60% stiffer than aluminum. What this means is that from a strength point of view, a titanium structure could be made stronger for the same weight by using a thinner material. Or, the titanium could have the same strength as aluminum with a little less weight. If stiffness is the concern, than there is essentially no difference between the materials. The amount of weight that could be saved with one material vs the other in a structure like a laptop case would be very small, and other concerns would likely be more dominant. For example, aluminum's thermal conductivity can be more than 10 times that of titanium. This means that localized heat input to the case will dissapate throughout the structure much more effectively with aluminum, making the alumimum case better at rejecting heat to the atmosphere, and reducing hot spots on the case. Finally, aluminum can be anodized, which is a chemical conversion process on the metal itself, providing a very hard surface that is metallurgically a part of the parent material, and can't chip or peel, although it can be scratched with a very hard material. All told, imho aluminum is a better choice, and I'm surprised Apple didn't start out that way.

[revenuee]

Originally posted by JonL
The strength of both materials can vary widely depending on the alloy. As a rough generalization for the alloys that Apple might use, titanium has about twice the stregth of aluminum. Titanium has about 60% higher density than aluminum, so for the same thickness titanium weighs more than half again as much. Titanium is also about 60% stiffer than aluminum. What this means is that from a strength point of view, a titanium structure could be made stronger for the same weight by using a thinner material. Or, the titanium could have the same strength as aluminum with a little less weight. If stiffness is the concern, than there is essentially no difference between the materials. The amount of weight that could be saved with one material vs the other in a structure like a laptop case would be very small, and other concerns would likely be more dominant. For example, aluminum's thermal conductivity can be more than 10 times that of titanium. This means that localized heat input to the case will dissapate throughout the structure much more effectively with aluminum, making the alumimum case better at rejecting heat to the atmosphere, and reducing hot spots on the case. Finally, aluminum can be anodized, which is a chemical conversion process on the metal itself, providing a very hard surface that is metallurgically a part of the parent material, and can't chip or peel, although it can be scratched with a very hard material. All told, imho aluminum is a better choice, and I'm surprised Apple didn't start out that way.

I guess that the Ti was a better choice because they hadn't considered anonized Al. In this revision and new releases "[they] looked to space aged materials" (Jonothan Ive - New 12 ad 17 inch PB promo)

I appreciate the explanation, i was going make a new thread, but i figure this was the place to ask, since the topic of a new material was already raised.

With that to consider, would the new iBooks need a new case? if a G4 chip would be installed, or for that matter G3 with altivec? will heat be an issue in the current plastic?

[cubist]

You guys, no new designs are going to use the G4. It's Gobi and then Mojave for the iBook.

And with the G5 being at 2GHz, nobody cares if the iBook is 0.1 GHz faster than the Powerbook.

I really like the idea of the 13" Widescreen we've been chatting about for some time. Does anyone know if the LCD panel makers make such a panel?

[JonL]

Originally posted by revenuee
I guess that the Ti was a better choice because they hadn't considered anonized Al. In this revision and new releases "[they] looked to space aged materials" (Jonothan Ive - New 12 ad 17 inch PB promo)



Anodized aluminum is a very common material in lots of applications. Titanium, on the other hand, is much more exotic. Ti is more expensive and more difficult to fabricate, and is used mostly in aerospace applications. Anodized aluminum is used in a lot of architectural, marine, automotive, and consumer products. It may be that Titanium was such a radical departure from typical laptop materials that it was chosen for purely marketing reasons. Once Apple "broke the mold" with a metal bodied laptop, they could "back off" the exotic factor to something more practical while maintaining a similar look to the TiBook. I think the introduction of a Titanium laptop made a bigger splash than would have the introduction of an Aluminum laptop. It is very hard for me to believe that the Apple engineers/designers/marketers didn't make careful trade studies of a variety of materials before deciding on Titanium. Alumimum would have almost certainly been on the list, and would have likely come in higher for technical merit, but lower for marketing appeal.

[Redbeard25]

I am a potential Mac user. Because of a very interesting set of circumstances, I was able to "try out" a 15" 1Ghz SuperDrive PB for two months this summer. It was pretty neat. Because of that experience, here's my perfect iBook:

13" widescreen (maybe 1152 x 768?)
DVD drive
USB 2.0 (so I can share outboard things with my PCs)
256MB RAM on board with an open slot (in which I would drop 512MB)
40GB HD
800+ mHz
any processor that guarantees compatibility with Mac OS up to version 11 (hey... it's only .7 away, y'know!)
$999

I agree with the previous poster that said if I needed a burner, I could do it externally. I don't plan on serious DVD creation, just DVD watching. If that computer showed up... I'd pick it up in a heartbeat. (well... as many heartbeats as it took to save up $999, at least.)

[zach]

I think Redbeard's description of his perfect iBook also fits mine.

13" widescreen would be AWESOME.
It's only a bit bigger than the current 12" in form factor, but you get more screen real estate, and you can watch movies in widescreen.

However, I would really like a CD burner or DVD drive at least on the bottom model. CD-ROM drives really don't cut it for me anymore.

[ncbill]

Just wondering, as education is still a big part of iBook "fleet" sales, so OS 9 would be nice (2 eMac models still boot OS 9)

13" screen is doable with the current form factor, maybe 13.3" with a slight stretch of the current case - 1024x768 is much nicer on 13.3" than 12".

New video card is a MUST - most people who have experienced the iBook logic board failure have the 32MB 7500 chipset - thoughts are that the 7500 chipset doesn't last very long, maybe too heat sensitive (I now enable processor cycling even when on AC for my iBook 800, after THREE logic boards in a year)

[Capt Underpants]

Originally posted by pivo6
I'm hoping that they can add these newer features and still keep the price where it's at.

They'd have to keep the price where it is at, because if even the price of the combo iBook went up a couple hundred, it would be in the same price range as a PB. That wouldn't happen unless the PB's prices were raised. :eek:

[MasonMcD]

Says a little birdie.

[Steven1621]

the ibook line is in dire need of revision. the higher end models cost more than a PB.

apple should drop the low end ibook to like $800 and keep the 14 in model at like $1200. it would make a lost more sense to arrange the product lines like this.

[littlemacdude]

YAY! If it has the right processer ( ;) ;) G5) and its the right amount of money so i can get it than we'll be happy about the G5 and me if i somehow get one.

[daRAT]

Originally posted by dswoodley
AppleInsider is pretty good for getting scoops right before the producsts are actually announced. Their long range forecases are not quite as accurate (but they do not seem to get into specifics for such predictions). Like every other site take it with a grain of salt (does anyone know what that cliche actually means/where it came from?)

Here is the phrase origin and original meaning;

http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/meanings/345700.html

oh and WOOT! to a possible iBook upgrade ;]

[tpjunkie]

Originally posted by ncbil

New video card is a MUST - most people who have experienced the iBook logic board failure have the 32MB 7500 chipset - thoughts are that the 7500 chipset doesn't last very long, maybe too heat sensitive (I now enable processor cycling even when on AC for my iBook 800, after THREE logic boards in a year)

That is the same video card used the in revision C TiBook, which as far as I know has yet to be seen as a major problem. I haven't had any issues with mine in the year+ that I've had it.

[DTG]

New iBooks are definitely around the corner since their last update was.. *thinks* back in March/April time.
Obviously they will be using the newly developed "Gobi" G3 from IBM, most likely running at 1.0Ghz and 1.1Ghz. Although the time scale for mass production of these chips does complicate matters since IBM released notes detailing that production would go ahead some time in December, which would suggest that we will not see iBooks until the new year (fits in nicely with MWSF'04 dont you think?). Also this stage would provide a much more likely opportunity for announcing a totally renovated iBook style, which will be 3 years old by the time we roll into 2004.

Who's to say that there wont be 2 iBook updates, one small update now (end of october time) and a larger revision, which may only be "announced" at MWSF'04.
I believe the iBooks will not see G4 status - ever. IBM has developed G3 processors capable of altivec enhancement and also chips with a 1MB L2 cache (as seen in Gobi and Mojave) as well as bus speeds of 200Mhz, which surpasses the 167Mhz barrier that motorola has run into with the G4. With this in mind the life of the G3 seems to have been dramatically increased. On top of this the G3's have also been tested in dual CPU setups, so with their low power consumption, we could well see iBooks with 200Mhz FSB dual processors this time next year - since I doubt anything like this would be much past concept/prototype stage, also I imagine something like this would only be brought about once G5's have made it into laptops (sorry, notebooks).

But anyway, here's what I think we will see in the iBook update(s) to come.

1.1Ghz G3 with 512k L2 cache (1MB just seems like too much with power consumption in mind, as well as PBs only having 512k themselves).
DDR266 Ram limited to 1GB
AE + Bluetooth capabilities
Sturdier keyboard layout, more along the PB lines with RAM/airport access elsewhere.
USB 2.0 ports
New design, same size screens 12" and 14" with a possible resolution change for the 14"
Graphics chip change, either a Radeon 9100 (hybrid of the 8500LE) or a 9200 if we're lucky.
In terms of optical drive we could see a superdrive in the highend model, since all consumer macs have SD options, also the standard optical drive may or may not be changed. The CD-ROM option is keeping the iBook very price competitive, but at least having the option of swapping it out for a Combo drive should be there.

[Sun Baked]

USB 2.0 would probably mean the death of OS 9 bootability ...

So it would be odd to see USB 2.0, bluetooth, and AE show up in the iBook without the move to the Intrepid DDR chipset.

Then the iBook would look a lot like a PowerBook 12 with a G3 processor, different case, and a consumer oriented S/W package (ie, Appleworks n Games).

---

On the other hand it would be interesting to see how Apple would deal with keeping the old Pangea SDR chipset around another 12-18 months.

[SubGothius]

Originally posted by mdntcallr
...Just want to get them moving. they have been sitting on their hands most of the year without much new product. :confused: Am I reading you correctly?!

Not much "new product"... that is, except for the new Al G4 PowerBooks (12" & 17") to start the year, the new G5 PowerMacs intro'd this summer, the even newer Al G4 PowerBooks (all-new 15", heavily revised 12" & 17") last month, not to mention various spec upgrades to the eMac, iMac, iBook, Xserve, iPod, LCDs... Sheesh... :rolleyes:

Apple-polly-loggies if you intended to be facetious, but it didn't come across that way to me -- nothing personal, just setting the record straight on Apple's progress this year. :)

[snofseth]

I dont think widescreen ibook 13" but i'd like it in the next powerbook revision then it would be a real sepearation powerbook widescreen and ibook normal

[johnnyjibbs]

I think most people's expectations are a little on the high side.

First off, the iBook will always be cheaper and "not quite as good" in terms of power and features as the PowerBook line so anyone (me included) who has just ordered the 12" PB should not worry... I think the update will see USB 2.0, AirPort Extreme and maybe BlueTooth but I don't think there will be any major revision to the form factor apart from maybe a change in material, as someone else mentioned.

What I've never understood is why the iBook has to be less powerful (i.e. deliberately crippled) than the PowerBook (I know PB12" 867 vs iBook 900 is debatable for non-altivec). I paid the extra £200-300 for the PowerBook 12" because I much prefer the slot-loading drive, much better keyboard and other such features, not to mention the Aluminium case. In my opinion, the iBook should be as powerful (but not more) than the PowerBook but have less of the unnecessary, "luxury" features to make it a cheaper choice for consumers.

I could easily buy a PC laptop for £600 with Combo drive (compared to £799 for base iBook model or £1050 for combo) that has a 2.4-2.8 GHz P4 or £999 for a 1.5 Centrino (with DVD-R). They don't have as many bells and whistles as even the iBook, but they are certainly more powerful (even than PBs unfortunately). The point I'm making is that you can get cheap consumer PC laptops that are just as powerful as their pro counterparts. People still buy the more expensive pro ones for their better feature set.

All I'm saying is that if the iBook was as powerful as the PB, people would still get the PB for more money if it had more cool extras, such as backlit keyboard (which should have been on the 12"!), maybe bluetooth, dual display support, slot-loading optical drive, etc. People who didn't want or need that could save a couple of hundred bucks and go for the iBook.

Realistically though, the iBook will probably get a more sturdy keyboard akin to the PowerBooks in an imminent update - this maybe the "form factor revision" that they are talking about.

[latergator116]

I think the new iBook could go over 1ghz. When the original whote iBook came out remember the low end powerbook was only at 400mhz and the high end at 500

[Bunzi2k4]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
I think most people's expectations are a little on the high side.

First off, the iBook will always be cheaper and "not quite as good" in terms of power and features as the PowerBook line so anyone (me included) who has just ordered the 12" PB should not worry... I think the update will see USB 2.0, AirPort Extreme and maybe BlueTooth but I don't think there will be any major revision to the form factor apart from maybe a change in material, as someone else mentioned.

What I've never understood is why the iBook has to be less powerful (i.e. deliberately crippled) than the PowerBook (I know PB12" 867 vs iBook 900 is debatable for non-altivec). I paid the extra £200-300 for the PowerBook 12" because I much prefer the slot-loading drive, much better keyboard and other such features, not to mention the Aluminium case. In my opinion, the iBook should be as powerful (but not more) than the PowerBook but have less of the unnecessary, "luxury" features to make it a cheaper choice for consumers.

I could easily buy a PC laptop for £600 with Combo drive (compared to £799 for base iBook model or £1050 for combo) that has a 2.4-2.8 GHz P4 or £999 for a 1.5 Centrino (with DVD-R). They don't have as many bells and whistles as even the iBook, but they are certainly more powerful (even than PBs unfortunately). The point I'm making is that you can get cheap consumer PC laptops that are just as powerful as their pro counterparts. People still buy the more expensive pro ones for their better feature set.

All I'm saying is that if the iBook was as powerful as the PB, people would still get the PB for more money if it had more cool extras, such as backlit keyboard (which should have been on the 12"!), maybe bluetooth, dual display support, slot-loading optical drive, etc. People who didn't want or need that could save a couple of hundred bucks and go for the iBook.

Realistically though, the iBook will probably get a more sturdy keyboard akin to the PowerBooks in an imminent update - this maybe the "form factor revision" that they are talking about.

This guy is right!!if the ibooks got as fast as the powerbooks, i'd get an ibook as my next comp, but that would mess up the power books (i think at least, but not by a lot), i don't think anything interesting will happen to the ibooks untill the powerbooks get g5ed

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by Bunzi2k4
This guy is right!!if the ibooks got as fast as the powerbooks, i'd get an ibook as my next comp, but that would mess up the power books (i think at least, but not by a lot), i don't think anything interesting will happen to the ibooks untill the powerbooks get g5ed

I think part of the reason why Apple built FCP 4 for G4s only was so that DV editors could not even consider buying an iBook. I expect this will remain so even after PBs go to G5, if ever

[Plutoniq]

Sure Apple has to make a clear distinction between the Pro and Consumer portables, but they are also competing against many PC manufactures.....therfore they can't completley skimp on the Ibook or they'll lose market share, Ibook has to be Apples biggest seller, right?.

Whatever Centrino is throwin' out, Apple have to at least match it ,where it can, with the Ibook. They are two laptops competing for the same market area.

I'd be suprised if Apple didn't release ,at least in the high end, Ibooks with 1.1ghz 750GX's.....at least on a 133mhz system bus. Are all the new Powerbooks utilizing a 166mhz bus? If so, I guess it's finally safe to up the bus speed to 133mhz.

[Si]

:rolleyes: Apple have got to :
a) get the iBooks out and in the shops a month before christmas or else they'll lose out
b) have to make them as competitive as a PC laptop, i.e. price and spec. New potential Mac buyers aren't going to buy an iBook for £799 (UK) with only a 12" screen, 128MB ram, CD-ROM, 900MHz, when they can get a PC laptop with 14-15" screen 256-512MB ram, CDRW (or even DVDRW), 2GHz for the same price, in some cases cheaper. Yes, they won't be as pleasing as a Mac and in some cases not as robust(see below) but kids that the parents buy these for change there computers more times than they change there socks!!
c) have the lowest spec be able to boot in OS 9. Many Education users here in the UK still use OS 9 because the majority, if not all, of the education software in the UK is not OSX compatible, and also they want to keep the same OS as the rest of there Macs (i.e. old ones not suitable for OS X)
d) have a sensible price structure i.e. in the UK there is a £200 differece between the 2 12" iBooks and the only tech difference is a CDRW and +100Mhz speed. How can apple justify the price hike on this when if you bought a computer from some place else the price diff between CD and CDRW would be at tops £30, and the speed increase of 100-200Mhz would be similar.


Robustness : I have seen many iBooks with loose keyboards, missing keys, broken hinge clips and damaged CD drives, so don't say that the iBook is very robust otherwise these things wouldn't happen.

[macphoria]

With Panther just around the corner, I imagine iBook update will follow soon after. Maybe next Tuesday?

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Si
:rolleyes: Apple have got to :
a) get the iBooks out and in the shops a month before christmas or else they'll lose out
b) have to make them as competitive as a PC laptop, i.e. price and spec. New potential Mac buyers aren't going to buy an iBook for £799 (UK) with only a 12" screen, 128MB ram, CD-ROM, 900MHz, when they can get a PC laptop with 14-15" screen 256-512MB ram, CDRW (or even DVDRW), 2GHz for the same price, in some cases cheaper. Yes, they won't be as pleasing as a Mac and in some cases not as robust(see below) but kids that the parents buy these for change there computers more times than they change there socks!!
c) have the lowest spec be able to boot in OS 9. Many Education users here in the UK still use OS 9 because the majority, if not all, of the education software in the UK is not OSX compatible, and also they want to keep the same OS as the rest of there Macs (i.e. old ones not suitable for OS X)
d) have a sensible price structure i.e. in the UK there is a £200 differece between the 2 12" iBooks and the only tech difference is a CDRW and +100Mhz speed. How can apple justify the price hike on this when if you bought a computer from some place else the price diff between CD and CDRW would be at tops £30, and the speed increase of 100-200Mhz would be similar.


Robustness : I have seen many iBooks with loose keyboards, missing keys, broken hinge clips and damaged CD drives, so don't say that the iBook is very robust otherwise these things wouldn't happen.

excellent points

the only option apple has at this junction right before the christmas rush is to lower prices and make the combo drive the minimum optical drive

keeping the ram minimum at 256 would also make a lot of sense

a hundred dollar price drop will greatly increase sales and keep us happy with an outdated G3 chip in a mac for now...but at a certain point the ibook will need a G4 and if the powerbook still has a G4, then apple better put a lot more bells and whistles in it to make the two lines be different

when i bought my ibook in 99, the powerbook had the same G3 processor

if ibook goes G4 sometime early to mid next year i can see something like this:

ibook, 1 ghz G4, 256 ram, 32 mb video, combo drive...999 usd
ibook, 1 ghz G4, 512 ram, 32 mb video, superdrive...1149 usd
ibook, 1 ghz G4, 512 ram, 32 mb video, superdrive, 14 inch screen...1299 usd

12 inch powerbook, 1.33 ghz G4, 1024 ram, 64 mb video, fw 800, superdrive...1499 usd
15 inch powerbook, faster G4, 1024 ram, 64 mb video, fw 800, superdrive...1799 usd
17 inch powerbook, faster G4, 1024 ram, 64 mb video, fw 800, superdrive...2199 usd
17 inch powerbook, maxed out with appleworks...2499 usd

and by year's end near christmas 2004, have the 14 inch ibook be no more than 999 usd and the powerbook 17 inch maxed out be no more than 1999 usd...basically, to make an all out assault on the PC laptop market

realize the PC world will have no laptop under 3 ghz at that point, and no laptop under a gig of ram, and PC laptop prices will start at 599 usd...right now, PC laptops enter the market at 799 usd and they are the more attractive option for first time computer buyers who don't really know the greatness of os x over windows xp

[Omek]

If that's the case, I really wonder what they'll announce in January. Probably 2.5GHz G5's. Wholey cow!!! Do you know how fast those things are going to be? Maybe We'll also see some new software. A Keynote upgrade would be cool and maybe a brand new Appleworks.

[Si]

Should learn to wish better.
Most of my wishes for the new iBook have been fulfilled but should have said increase the base memory to 256MB ram BUT DO THIS WITH ONE CHIP SO WE CAN ADD EXTRA OURSELVES WITHOUT HAVING TO LOSE 128MB - COME ON APPLE GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: