Microsoft 'Cool' and New Apple Ad Campaign [Archive]

ClimbingTheLog

Oct 4, 2003, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Rocketman
It seems like MS sells mostly software and Apple sells mostly hardware so hardware would typically be more visible when placed.
Rocketman

Exactly right - we can watch our characters use a Mac without having to see what they're doing. The only way to do Windows would be to show screenshots, which is both geeky and costly to the show (to have to produce the content). I'm sure Microsoft will underwrite the content creation, but will the directors allow their shows to be dated like that? To reduce their syndication value for the sake of Microsoft?

Other that that we'd have to see Marge Simpson say, "I think I'll go make an Excel spreadsheet to calculate how many times Bart gets into trouble." Gag me.

Sure, we've seen Willow and Loralai decide they're going to Google for something, but that's because it's part of the fabric of society now in a unique way that Windows and Office are not. Sure, Windows lets you do stuff faster than on paper, but Google lets you do stuff you never could before. Major difference.

As others have said, you can't buy cool.

MrMacMan

Oct 4, 2003, 09:56 AM

'I like XP because it is ... uh ... cool '

yeeeaaah...

Suurree.

sparks9

Oct 4, 2003, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by TheFish
microsoft will never be cool, but as for apple, well they have a chance. i hope there new add campaign is good because so far apple hasnt been too good at advertising.

I don't think ur right. Apple's laptops (and to some degree desktops) are everywhere in tv programmes, magazines and movies. Other than that the iPod is in a lot of music videos.

But I must admit that I've never seen a tv commercial (here in Denmark) with Apple. They should really do some of them.

sparks9

Oct 4, 2003, 09:58 AM

Microsoft can never be cool. The standard is not cool...

madrobby

Oct 4, 2003, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Longey Nowze
I assume he means their newer commercials, the spinning iMacs or what ever with white backgrounds you can't compare those to their older ones, i like them though, I like the G5 add with guy flying out of the house too.

thank you
MaT

Personally, I like the white background stuff more than the G5 guy or the AlBook size comparision. Also, the older spots were better, my all-time favourite is the "get a macintosh" line when all other advice is "press ctrl+alt+del", "edit config.sys" and so on...

Can't wait for the new ad campaign (probably new iBooks - year of the laptop, anyone?). :cool:

blueBomber

Oct 4, 2003, 10:06 AM

in no way is Microsoft cool. And in no way will they ever be. Windows is the OS of those that are too afraid to take a chance, and is doomed to be a third-rate piece of software for the rest of it's existance. Sorry, but I'll take Jobs sense of "cool" over Gates any day.

Dippo

Oct 4, 2003, 10:14 AM

I see Apple computers all the time on commercials for Road Runner. And everytime someone on a tv show is using a laptop, it's a powerbook.

Of course no one ever shows the MacOS in any of these TV spots. So I am wondering how Microsoft is planning to get in there.

Even the Xbox is NOT cool, but maybe I just think that cause I hate Microsoft junk!

arqsagi

Oct 4, 2003, 10:16 AM

Just one question, if microsoft idea is to show they products on tv shows and movies will they also show a the blue screen?, will they show someone reseting their computer? or someone downloading security patches?

tacojohn

Oct 4, 2003, 10:18 AM

Just saw "School of Rock" and mac's were everywhere!

The kids were using a TiBook and 2 17" iMacs in the movie.

blueBomber

Oct 4, 2003, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Dippo
Of course no one ever shows the MacOS in any of these TV spots. So I am wondering how Microsoft is planning to get in there.

This has always baffled me too... whenever I show people even something as simple as the dock, or the genie effect, or heck even simpletext's speaking ability, they think it is the coolest thing on the planet. I've met people that have asked me what version of Windows my PB is running!

jsnuff1

Oct 4, 2003, 10:19 AM

Think superbowl
Think 20th anniversary of mac
Think revolutionary

That is all i have to say...

drbyers

Oct 4, 2003, 10:22 AM

think arnold schwrazenneger and a box of windoze xp... "buy my software or I'll teeeeeeer-minaaaate yoooo."

ebow

Oct 4, 2003, 10:32 AM

Funny that they should mention the show "24." Last night I saw an ad for the new season, and in one scene a man of some importance (guessing he's a central character) was using either a PBG4 or an Apple display, in a clip just after that you could see him working on a PowerBook, and in the background was a very slightly out-of-focus G5. I don't watch the show (but the ads may have tempted me to give it a shot) so this may be nothing new...

nagromme

Oct 4, 2003, 10:33 AM

Most screenshots on TV--Mac or PC--seem to be total fakes, not a real app or OS at all. But Buffy did show OS X from time to time--browsing in Explorer (oh, well) and even using iTunes, clearly shown in close-up, for mind control!

I really think all the fake screens are silly--so many people KNOW that's not what computers are like, it detracts.

Don't get me started on how every photo/image on a fictional computer STILL has to load slowly from top to bottom like some floppy-based DOS app! :)

hobbes3113

Oct 4, 2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by TheFish
microsoft will never be cool, but as for apple, well they have a chance. i hope there new add campaign is good because so far apple hasnt been too good at advertising.

If Apple hasn't been good at advertising and they have become this popular, what will happen if they finally get it together? TOTAL WORLD DOMINATION!!!

Seriously, Apple has one of the most creative and recognizable ad campaigns running. It is refreshing to see something that is not just a copy of something else...

crees!

Oct 4, 2003, 10:39 AM

24!... noooooooooooooo! Jack Bauer will never be able to catch the terrorists now because everyone will be using the PCs for Solitare. Then they'll crash on the final move. Bah.

Daschund

Oct 4, 2003, 10:51 AM

So does that means that Longhorn will be delayed even more? I mean, all the "copying" team that were working on copying OS X will now be working on copying Apple's marketing strategies? Or does that means they created a different "copying team" to take care of the marketing copying? I'm kind of confused now... :confused:

Daschund

trusso

Oct 4, 2003, 10:55 AM

Did anyone see ER on thursday? Carter was listening to an iPod!:cool: :D

Golem

Oct 4, 2003, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by drbyers
think arnold schwrazenneger and a box of windoze xp... "buy my software or I'll teeeeeeer-minaaaate yoooo."

You know that Arnie's internal computer graphics in Terminator are borrowed from an Apple II program? its either a hex editor or disk editor,its been a while:)

Flowbee

Oct 4, 2003, 10:59 AM

I think Apple's understated advertising is what helps make them 'cool' in the public's mind. Once you start explaning to people all of the reasons that you're so cool... you're no longer cool anymore.

Irafas

Oct 4, 2003, 11:09 AM

I constantly see macs in CSI - the apple logo is covered with a sticker on the powerbooks they use, and I occasionally see glimpses of the new iMacs, but they're certainly there.

jaw04005

Oct 4, 2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by trusso
Did anyone see ER on thursday? Carter was listening to an iPod!:cool: :D I dunno about E.R. but Scrubs on Thursday night, a guy was listening to an iPod before he went to work. Also, the new show "Happy Family" the guy is a dentist and keeps his schedule on iCal, and they showed the screen.

jaykk

Oct 4, 2003, 11:33 AM

I just like the whole Apple (http://www.apple.com) experience vs rest of the computer industry. Even look at the microsoft website Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/)
First thing I noticed is "Protect Your PC", is that a cool thing to worry about protecting my pc all the time than any work get done?

On the other hand, MacBU's Mactopia (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/) is much better than their main site.

rdowns

Oct 4, 2003, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by madrobby
Go to this page (http://www.redlightrunner.com/appleads.html) to view some famous apple tv ads... (Quote: "1984 - the first Macintosh commercial, winner of many awards, and generally acknowledged to be the best commercial of all time.)

Not too good at advertising? :rolleyes:

Apple sucks at advertising. Sure, they produce award winning, cutting edge stuff that gets them noticed but it doesn't sell Macs.

Take Apple's G5 ad. Sure, it tells people it's the world's fastest PC but what good does that do for all the Wintel users who think Macs are way overpriced, have no available software, can't connect to the Internet or are not compatible with PCs?

How I'd love to see spots touting the many Mac advantages and ones to sipel the myths about Macs but we never get them.

Seems all they do is waste money preaching to the faithful.

azdude

Oct 4, 2003, 11:36 AM

Think 20th anniversary of mac
Think revolutionary

That is all i have to say...

I have been thinking about this for some time. While the 20th anniversary of Apple may have already come, and been celebrated (http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/tam.shtml), the 20th anniversary of the Macintosh is still upon us...

Remember the "sacred commercial"

"Today, we celebrate the first glorious anniversary of the Information Purification Directives. We have created, for the first time in all history, a garden of pure ideology. Where each worker may bloom secure from the pests of contradictory and confusing truths. Our Unification of Thoughts is more powerful a weapon than any fleet or army on earth. We are one people, with one will, one resolve, one cause. Our enemies shall talk themselves to death and we will bury them with their own confusion. We shall prevail!

Here's the part that makes me itch with unquenchable anticipation... Only a couple more months!!!!!

Sonofhaig

Oct 4, 2003, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by trusso
Did anyone see ER on thursday? Carter was listening to an iPod!:cool: :D

Yes. I saw that. Would have been cool to see an ipod commercial right afterward....

bertagert

Oct 4, 2003, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by trusso
Did anyone see ER on thursday? Carter was listening to an iPod!:cool: :D

Like others above, I saw it too. First Scubs guy had one while crusing through the hospital. Then John Carter had his on the bus/train ride to work and then a few times while on the truck in Africa (or where ever it was). Too bad it wasn't a new one but that really doesn't matter.

lmalave

Oct 4, 2003, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by jsnuff1
Think superbowl
Think 20th anniversary of mac
Think revolutionary

That is all i have to say...

The problem with the timing of the Superbowl, and also of MWSF, is that they occur right after the holiday buying season. January has to be the worst time to introduce new products. The rumor is that iBooks with a new form factor are going to be introduced by December. I would expect then, that those would be the centerpiece of the rumored upcoming ad campaign, since no other products except the XServe are really due for an upgrade between now and December. If the new iBooks involve a new color scheme, it's possible maybe the other "consumer" level products: eMacs, iMacs, and iPods, also get the same color scheme (but not necessarily any actual hardware improvements). That would make a nifty basis for an ad campaign, I think.

lmalave

Oct 4, 2003, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by rdowns
Apple sucks at advertising. Sure, they produce award winning, cutting edge stuff that gets them noticed but it doesn't sell Macs.

Take Apple's G5 ad. Sure, it tells people it's the world's fastest PC but what good does that do for all the Wintel users who think Macs are way overpriced, have no available software, can't connect to the Internet or are not compatible with PCs?

How I'd love to see spots touting the many Mac advantages and ones to sipel the myths about Macs but we never get them.

Seems all they do is waste money preaching to the faithful.

Uhhhh...the market for the G5 *is* the faithful. Keep in mind that the market for the G5s are professionals. These are people who really just want to know if the G5 will, for example, render an animation or apply a video effect faster than a comparably-priced Wintel machine.

As far as the consumer-level products, Apple will always compete on features, not price. The computer industry is a commodity market, and no one besides Dell and Apple are making any money. Dell does it by keeping their production costs low. Apple does it by innovating and creating greater willingness to pay for its products.

The innovation strategy coupled with a "coolness factor" ad campaign has obviously been a smashing success with the iPod, which is a purely consumer-level product. I think Apple has had a hard time translating this strategy to the iMac, a product with a similar "coolness factor", because the iMacs cost about 3 or 4 times what an iPod does. I think that maybe the next big push will be with the iBook, since that only costs twice as much as the iPod.

I think if Apple comes up with a hip new design for the iBook and adds a DVD player to the $999 model, they'd have a very appealing product for the holiday season. Could you find a clunky, cheapo, laptop for $800 somewhere? Sure, but the iPod has proven that people are willing to pay a couple hundred dollars more for a sleeker form factor and also for "ease of use".

Iconocat

Oct 4, 2003, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by trusso
Did anyone see ER on thursday? Carter was listening to an iPod!:cool: :D

Well of course he was... afterall, he played S.J. in that movie TNT made. :)

-ic

capacity

Oct 4, 2003, 12:58 PM

It's all about Clippy.

From Win to Mac

Oct 4, 2003, 01:38 PM

I saw the Season 3 preview of 24 on the Fox website, and in it were 17inchers, G5s and iMacs.

No Windoze

rotorblade

Oct 4, 2003, 01:46 PM

My favorite Apple commercial was "CROWD". The one where the guy is trying to give a presentation to an auditorium full of people and he can't get the presentation going. Priceless commercial.

Fast Forward 2003/2004.

Same commercial, but he mentions he's using WinXP and must have a virus/worm!

Other favorites: "The Visitor" and "Nightmare After"

From Win to Mac

Oct 4, 2003, 01:47 PM

i fail to see how SOFTWARE could ever be cool enough to generate actual impulse-buying interst. After all, what makes Apple cool is the iPod and G5 and the Powerbook and the iMac... not the iTMS or iCal or iMovie.

WOOOOWWWWWWWWWW !!!!!!!!!!!!
Look at that !!! It's Windows Media Center Edition 2004 !!!!!
Holy crap i have to get that right now !!!

Sublime

Oct 4, 2003, 01:59 PM

Does anyone remember the Performa infomercial?

Hey where is the seasick emoticon?

I want some attitude in future Mac ads. The G5 blowing the guy through the wall is a good start.

More, more, more of that.

Shawn Mole

Oct 4, 2003, 02:08 PM

I hate to be a downer, but I don't think anyone has commented on this yet: Microsoft "promoting" it's products has the "side effect" [skepticism] of removing Macs.

I could be wrong, but Apple has a long tradition of not paying for product placement: the Apple stuff we see in movies and on TV was voluntarily put there. Any company paying money for their stuff to be used instead would mean less Apple stuff placed.

This seems especially likely since 24 and CSI are both shows (as far as my watching goes) that show villains with Windows PCs and good guys with Macs.

This is cultural warfare no matter how you slice it: Microsoft has plenty of money and influence to eradicate Macs in high profile media.

Unless Apple breaks its tradition and starts paying for spots, "Spot the Mac" could become a really slow drinking game.

Rocksaurus

Oct 4, 2003, 02:09 PM

As I was reading the article and came to "Microsoft in typical fashion will..." I expected it to say "copy Apple" not "set off a new round of print and online advertisements for its Media Center Edition". pffffffff

MacFan26

Oct 4, 2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Iconocat
Well of course he was... afterall, he played S.J. in that movie TNT made. :)

-ic

I was wondering if anyone else thought of that!

MacFan26

Oct 4, 2003, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by joshuawaire
I dunno about E.R. but Scrubs on Thursday night, a guy was listening to an iPod before he went to work. Also, the new show "Happy Family" the guy is a dentist and keeps his schedule on iCal, and they showed the screen.

Speaking of Scrubs, I read an article about how they're using all Apple computers and Final Cut Pro to produce that show. Here's the link:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=77&ncid=77&e=6&u=/mc/20031002/tc_mc/nbcsscrubsadoptsanallapplesolution

kerryb

Oct 4, 2003, 02:28 PM

Apple's ads although not as hard hitting as most fans wish, they do get noticed. I think anyone with eyes can see that Apple's hardware is the best looking stuff on the market. There is some momentum right now with laptop sales and with new iBooks very near (rumor has it something of a new look) the release of ITMS for the other 95% of the world and Panther to satisfied the we X users this fall looks like a potentially profitable and enjoyable time.

rotorblade

Oct 4, 2003, 02:42 PM

When it comes to Apple making a statement of what Apple Computer is all about, their 20th Anniversary Macintosh video was probably one of their best.

rtdunham

Oct 4, 2003, 02:50 PM

thank goodness i'm reading this apple news source. I never would have thought apple would have an ad campaign for the holidays.
td:rolleyes:

SFNE Freak

Oct 4, 2003, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by kerryb
Apple's ads although not as hard hitting as most fans wish, they do get noticed. I think anyone with eyes can see that Apple's hardware is the best looking stuff on the market. There is some momentum right now with laptop sales and with new iBooks very near (rumor has it something of a new look) the release of ITMS for the other 95% of the world and Panther to satisfied the we X users this fall looks like a potentially profitable and enjoyable time.
My Civics class teacher put up a full-spread ad that was in the newspaper. It happened to be the "Big and Small" ad for the 12" and 17" Powerbooks. :)

Docrjm

Oct 4, 2003, 03:20 PM

Think Silk purse and a Sow's ear.
It will never happen:p

matthew24

Oct 4, 2003, 03:28 PM

I suppose a Wintel machine would be a nice feature in the Dumb and Dumber movies.:D

abdul

Oct 4, 2003, 03:42 PM

ipod is everywhere. hasnt anyone seen 50cents new song p.i.m.p and mary j blige's -love at first sight. they have a proper close up of the ipod. do you think apple payed for that? i just dont understand why they would have such a close up of an ipod.

iMeowbot

Oct 4, 2003, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by abdul
i just dont understand why they would have such a close up of an ipod.

It's a bling thing, videos have been doing that for years. iPods aren't selling so well just because they can play music.

SiliconAddict

Oct 4, 2003, 04:33 PM

Are they going to be promoting patching on these shows. Example. In 24 6 episodes (6 hours) are dedicated to rolling out the RPC patch all the while you can hear techs curse the name of Microsoft and Bill Gates.

cubist

Oct 4, 2003, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by crees!
24!... noooooooooooooo! Jack Bauer will never be able to catch the terrorists now because everyone will be using the PCs for Solitare. Then they'll crash on the final move. Bah.

"No, Captain, we've got them this time."

"What do you mean? They're way too far ahead of us."

"But that's just it -- by my calculations, they haven't had a BSOD in over three hours."

As they turn to the monitor, the plane suddenly veers off course and slams into the ocean.

(In all fairness, I've never seen the show)

Petit_Chout

Oct 4, 2003, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by madrobby
Go to this page (http://www.redlightrunner.com/appleads.html) to view some famous apple tv ads... (Quote: "1984 - the first Macintosh commercial, winner of many awards, and generally acknowledged to be the best commercial of all time.)

Not too good at advertising? :rolleyes:

My all-time favourite commercial is the one with the multi-coloured iMacs spinning around to the music of the Rolling Stones. There is something about that commercial that makes me sooo happy, even today. I guess it is the song. I know they are old but, when they first came out, and with that commercial, it caused such a stir, in me, particularly. I don't even really like the way they look now; sort of dated. But, it was such a COOOL commercial: "colour everywhere!!" ahh, marvellous!—nothing like it ever before. And, probably nothing quite like them will ever happen again. It totally changed how people even looked at a physical computer, how to interact with it, to even love the cute thing! :rolleyes: :)

scem0

Oct 4, 2003, 06:35 PM

Microsoft shouldn't even try.

They should just acept that 75% of all people think they are anything but 'cool'.

scem0

Hawthorne

Oct 4, 2003, 07:00 PM

the classic Lenny Bruce Jewish/goyim comedy routine, where Wonder Bread was Jewish, and pumpernickel goy, etc.?

Apple is Jewish.
Microsoft is goyim.

:D:)

Photorun

Oct 4, 2003, 07:01 PM

Microcrap is anything but. I'm sure how it goes is:

Microsoft Rep: "Can you PLEASE show our buggy crappy OS on your show?"
Show Producer: "Are you high? First of all we want to show software that works, secondly that looks aesthetically pleasing, there's no way, and the machines that run your OS is so FUGLY!"
Microsoft Rep: "What if we gave you 500 million dollars?"
Show Producer: "Uh, okay, I guess, but will you throw in money for all the reshooting because the programs bomb while the actors are at the screen."
Microsoft Rep: "It's a deal."

TheFish

Oct 4, 2003, 07:02 PM

Wonder Boy

Oct 4, 2003, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by From Win to Mac
I saw the Season 3 preview of 24 on the Fox website, and in it were 17inchers, G5s and iMacs.

No Windoze

I love that show. tibooks were all over the place last season. a few pmac's made camios too.

blueBomber

Oct 4, 2003, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by Shawn Mole

I could be wrong, but Apple has a long tradition of not paying for product placement: the Apple stuff we see in movies and on TV was voluntarily put there. Any company paying money for their stuff to be used instead would mean less Apple stuff placed.
....
Unless Apple breaks its tradition and starts paying for spots, "Spot the Mac" could become a really slow drinking game.

I do believe that the reason that you see so much Apple stuff is that Apple gives them the machines to use. That is how it has always been. Let's see everyone else compete with free.

Capt Underpants

Oct 4, 2003, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by sparks9
Microsoft can never be cool. The standard is not cool...

Microsoft can be cool to whoever thinks Microsoft is cool. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I am not saying microsoft is cool, but it could be.

drbyers

Oct 4, 2003, 08:03 PM

microsuck couldn't be cool if they went on queer eye for the straight guy. wait a minute... maybe they could. lol.

blueBomber

Oct 4, 2003, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by TheFish
That was 1984 this decades worth of advertising hasnt been good. I think jobs directed the first comercial but now its done by an outside agency

edit: ok ill admit i was wrong apple has had some good adds but the whole switch campaing was bad, and i wasnt a fan of the imac and ibook adds neither the g5 add was pretty weak as well, apple never gives any specs for any of their computers.

Jobs didn't direct the 1984 commercial, Ridley Scott (Alien, Gladiator) did. The ad was produced by Chiat/Day, who is still producing ads for them. Jobs does influence and has final say in what is shown, but most of the actual "meat" of these ads are from the agency. And finally, Apple doesn't like talking about specs unless they are dealing with their pro line; remember the whole "Megahertz Myth"? Apple is more interested in showing that their computers are cool.

MacFan26

Oct 4, 2003, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by blueBomber
Apple is more interested in showing that their computers are cool.

I think Apple should show more of what one can do with their computer, rather than showing that they're "cool." Apple does such a good job showing how much faster, etc. their computers work at keynotes, why can't they put a little of that into their commercials?

SiliconAddict

Oct 4, 2003, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Photorun
Microcrap is anything but. I'm sure how it goes is:

Microsoft Rep: "Can you PLEASE show our buggy crappy OS on your show?"
Show Producer: "Are you high? First of all we want to show software that works, secondly that looks aesthetically pleasing, there's no way, and the machines that run your OS is so FUGLY!"
Microsoft Rep: "What if we gave you 500 million dollars?"
Show Producer: "Uh, okay, I guess, but will you throw in money for all the reshooting because the programs bomb while the actors are at the screen."
Microsoft Rep: "It's a deal."

Ummm ya right. :rolleyes: You do realize that most of the time any computer shots that are seen on TV are done not on set but digitally inserted later. Otherwise you get a really crappy image. And please drop the OS crashes excuse. W2K and to a lesser extent XP has made BSODs obsolete in Windows or about as obsolete as kernel panics in OSX. Security concerns and patches are another matter.

Windows vs OS X. Considering its onscreen time is probably going to be less then 15-30 seconds I highly doubt anyone is going to consider Windows ugly when all your will see is the current screen on the computer vs using the dock or start menu and navigating around the OS.
I hack on windows and MS as much as the next guy but if we going to do it use a legit gripe. BSOD and being ugly don’t fly.

Personally I don't consider Windows OSX, Linux, BEOS, [insert any other OS here] cool. Its a freaking OS for god sake. Ooooo look at the sleek, sexy coding on that API. That's cool. :p

Phil Of Mac

Oct 4, 2003, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by madrobby
Go to this page (http://www.redlightrunner.com/appleads.html) to view some famous apple tv ads... (Quote: "1984 - the first Macintosh commercial, winner of many awards, and generally acknowledged to be the best commercial of all time.)

Not too good at advertising? :rolleyes:

They aren't doing as well now. Think different was brilliant. Yao Ming and Mini-Me was a hilarious ad.

Apple should either redo the 1984 commercial once Microsoft standardizes on Palladium, or they should find out whoever's going Volkswagen's commercials. Those are great!

Doesn't anyone remember the commercial with the dad who couldn't find the dinosaurs for his kid? Or the original "The Power To Be Your Best"?

ewinemiller

Oct 4, 2003, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by Capt Underpants
Microsoft can be cool to whoever thinks Microsoft is cool. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I am not saying microsoft is cool, but it could be.

Your absolutely right. Here's a couple of moments I've had in the last year or so where I sat back and thought "this is cool".

1. In a phone conference with a coworker teaching us a new tool. He was connected to our server using Windows Terminal Services, we used the same thing to shadow his session and could watch every step. The server was in the server room, we were in the board room, he was across the country. Terminal Services (Remote Desktop in XP Pro) is something that has changed the way we do work, for the better. I don't have to carry home a laptop to be on call, a quick VPN connection, terminal services into my machine at work and it's like I'm there.

2. The first time I turned on XP's ClearType. It's absolutely amazing, OSX's font antialiasing does not even come close to its clarity.

3. A couple of months back I wrote a Visual Basic application that used COM (a windows technology) to control Corel Photopaint and do a couple of specific functions. Next I hacked the registry (a database that drives much of windows behavior) to add a couple of new options to the right mouse button menu when selecting image files. Now those functions are integrated features of Explorer, all in 15 minutes worth of work. If you think Cocoa apps are easy to write, you should try VB and COM.

4. A coworker checked in some source code with his SQL Server password in plain text. SQL Server can also execute command lines through a stored procedure so we connected to his SQL Server and used it to send net popups from his machine to other coworkers saying all kinds of outragous stuff. Really you could do this on pretty much any platform you've rooted, but it was still fun ;).

5. We wrote an instant messaging tool for the office using VB and COM+, again VB and COM made it easy to instance an object on the server that relayed the message to all the registered clients.

Likewise I've had a few of those moments with OSX too, like when I got SendMail and the pop3 server up and running then pointed a personal domain at it, and the first time I bought something from the iTunes music store. Windows and OSX are tools, each can do some pretty cool things. If your perception of MS is still Windows 9x, or even just XP, you've missed about 90% of what they do and the technologies they provide. MS may not have something as visible and pretty as an iPod or new G5 and I think they will have a real hard time showing what they do in product placement kind of efforts, but there is plenty of cool in the things they do.

Phil Of Mac

Oct 4, 2003, 09:19 PM

Apple should do an advertising campaign advertising things like iPhoto and iMovie and iChat AV that are, for now, only available on the Mac.

Imagine the Wassup guys from Budweiser doing their thing with iChat AV. And then:

"iChat AV.
Only on
Mac OS X Panther"

toughboy

Oct 4, 2003, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by drbyers
think arnold schwrazenneger and a box of windoze xp... "buy my software or I'll teeeeeeer-minaaaate yoooo."

LOL :D:D :D :D

drbyers

Oct 4, 2003, 09:53 PM

maybe i should have put that differently...

"think arnold schwrazenneger and a box of windoze xp... 'buy my software or I'll GROOOOOOPE yoooo."

TheFish

Oct 4, 2003, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by blueBomber
Apple doesn't like talking about specs unless they are dealing with their pro line; remember the whole "Megahertz Myth"? Apple is more interested in showing that their computers are cool.

Thats a mistake in my opinion, in the g5 commercial they didnt even mention that it was the first 64 bit personal computer, to me thats a big selling point.

drbyers

Oct 4, 2003, 10:13 PM

pc users don't care about 64-bit. they only care about MHz... and game titles, because they have no lives.

Phil Of Mac

Oct 4, 2003, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by TheFish
Thats a mistake in my opinion, in the g5 commercial they didnt even mention that it was the first 64 bit personal computer, to me thats a big selling point.

Pah!!!

There isn't a 64 bit OS for it yet and even if there was, it'll be years before it's an advantage!

64 bit is a future-proofing mechanism. It does nothing for the end user today.

Fukui

Oct 4, 2003, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by ewinemiller
1. In a phone conference with a coworker teaching us a new tool. He was connected to our server using Windows Terminal Services, we used the same thing to shadow his session and could watch every step. The server was in the server room, we were in the board room, he was across the country. Terminal Services (Remote Desktop in XP Pro) is something that has changed the way we do work, for the better. I don't have to carry home a laptop to be on call, a quick VPN connection, terminal services into my machine at work and it's like I'm there.

How is this different from using Apple Remote Desktop in OS X??

LimeiBook86

Oct 5, 2003, 01:03 AM

I love Apple ads! There should be tons of them. Recently I came across some Mac OS X 10.2 "Jaguar" Ads online (not on Apple's page) I never saw them on TV, I liked'em though. They were abotu iChat, and Junk Mail and one showed a cut out of the Jaguar X walking around. They were cool. As someone said before. The Mac will soon be 20 years old, this should bring some great commericals. Come on Apple!! <rolls dice>:rolleyes:

cnladd

Oct 5, 2003, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Pah!!!

There isn't a 64 bit OS for it yet and even if there was, it'll be years before it's an advantage!

64 bit is a future-proofing mechanism. It does nothing for the end user today.

Define "end user".

I have a 64-bit workstation at my desk. Not a Mac. If it were a 32-bit workstation it would be useless to me. There are a group of users to whom 64-bit computing is essential -- this is the group to which Apple is marketing to.

And yes, we know that Panther isn't a full 64-bit operating system. However, the hooks are there for coders, and the next operating system will be. Code written to take advantage of 64-bit APIs will work today, and will be blazing fast tomorrow.

This might seem like bad marketing to you, but the vendors (Sun, HP, IBM, SGI, etc.) that have 64-bit solutions today (and did seven years ago) released their 64-bit offerings the same way: hardware first, followed by software that didn't take advantage of it but had hooks for developers, followed by full-blown software that was optimized for it. Apple is following in their footsteps.

Phil Of Mac

Oct 5, 2003, 02:04 AM

OK, perhaps the G5 is also a stab at the 64-bit workstation market. But for the traditional Apple end user, 64 bit has yet to be useful.

macguymike

Oct 5, 2003, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by trusso
Did anyone see ER on thursday? Carter was listening to an iPod!:cool: :D

Yep. He even mentioned by name when he was asked about it and had it with him in several scenes.

Also, the son on the OC has a 17" iMac and an iPod.

Bill Gates is just desperate to keep up with the Jobses.

:D:D

macguymike

Oct 5, 2003, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Imagine the Wassup guys from Budweiser doing their thing with iChat AV.

Now that would get some attention. :)

hulugu

Oct 5, 2003, 02:52 AM

Gates and Co just don't understand how this cool thing works. You can't buy coolness, you can't advertise it, you can't push it down people's throats. Apple is cool because of the iPod, the TiBook and all of its amazing software. Apple's iPod has become the de facto image of the MP3 player.
In the ER episode everyone has mentioned the iPod is not only shown several times, but mentioned by name and then described. It became part of the show. But, Carter didn't say "made by Apple Computer" because he didn't have to. In the last issue of Wired you will notice significant references to Apple, and in the pictorials Felix Da Housecat has his iPod prominently displayed. Wired also has the "What's on Your iPod?" where they ask various musicians what they listen to. But, it's what on your iPod.
Gates and Monkey-boy Ballmer, etc. believe they can buy coolness, they can buy their way in, and I hope it's not true.
As for commercials, Apple's had some good ones, but I'd like to see more, and I'd like to see large magazine ads that describe their machines in more detail.
Lastly, while I've liked the last few ads, the G5 ad is fairly goofy and distracting. We barely see the machine, and they've got to find a new narrator beside Jeff Goldblum.
But that's just my two cents, anyone have change for a dollar?

tazznb

Oct 5, 2003, 07:13 AM

As soon as they convince everyone that Draconian DRM licencing is cool too.

Slim chance for that though; this cool schpeel is being done to smoth the way for such underhanded things.

If you pay attention you'll also see that Microsoft is also in attempts to bind the BIOS with the OS so that they may also CONTROL THE HARDWARE.

Children beware of fat geeky dudes bearing large lollypops; that candy has a tendancy to cause painful cavities, and loss of teeth. :eek:

Just a quick question to the Admin here.

Why was my post with a picture with Steve Ballmer, and my saying he looks an awful lot like Young Frankenstein posted, and then removed?

:( It was just a joke... that's all

stingerman

Oct 5, 2003, 07:28 AM

In season 2, there were a couple of Dell laptops in use, but they were conspicuously being used by the less liked players. Whenever a key actor was using a computer it was still a Mac. I enjoyed the contrast.

And the Powerbook's looked so much nicer to the Dells.

ThomasJefferson

Oct 5, 2003, 09:24 AM

If you build the perfect lemming trap, the lemmings will come.

blueBomber

Oct 5, 2003, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by drbyers
pc users don't care about 64-bit. they only care about MHz... and game titles, because they have no lives.
Are you crazy? AMD is making a HUGE splash right now because of the Athlon64. And they are actually clocked slower than the current high end AthlonXP, but show a good performance gain due to the huge cache sizes. And just to put it to bed, I've learned over the years that if you let yourself get upset over Apples' ad campaign, you will end up being angry all the time. Apple's ads aren't terribly good at showing what their computers can do, just that they are hip. What sold the iMac? Colored plastic. That's it. It ran the same OS as the powermacs at the time, so the whole "3 minute" internet was the same. So I agree that Apple should show their software in ads, but I also accept that they never will.

drbyers

Oct 5, 2003, 10:27 AM

you're just as crazy.

Intel is now using its marketing muscle to try and deflate the advantages of 64 bit performance to the peecee weenies, because Intel knows it doesn't have anything comparible lined up in the near future.

Intel's official position now is that regular desktop users don't need such speedy performance. And intel heads believe them, just go to tomshardware.com.

Ironically, pcworld has come out and said the new AMDs basically smoke anything Intel has to offer on the desktop.

btw, intel used the same lame argument when apple debuted the G4, before unleashing the 'tards in the shiny bunny suits.

SiliconAddict

Oct 5, 2003, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by drbyers
pc users don't care about 64-bit. they only care about MHz... and game titles, because they have no lives.

I guess everyone who has ever purchase a game console be it an Atari 5200 to a PS2 to a GameCube have no lives either. How many million or billion is that? In summery. Get real. :rolleyes:
Oh and to clue you in. The average user no one has any use for a 64-bit CPU. I’ve love to find 10 people within a mile of me that would be several GB of RAM in their system. Heck most probably have 256 at this point. Unless you are dealing in RAM the 64-bit aspect of the G5 is all marketing.

SiliconAddict

Oct 5, 2003, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Fukui
How is this different from using Apple Remote Desktop in OS X??

Let me know if I'm wrong on this but don't you have to purchase this software spep? And it’s not really designed around the home consumer. The software is business oriented.

In the case of XP it’s built into the OS ready to use out of the box. In fact non XP systems, even Mac I believe as long as you are using a TSC, can remote control an XP system out of the box.

drbyers

Oct 5, 2003, 10:47 AM

hey genius, I have a need for 64 bit, because I do video editing, high end 3d and heavy photoshopping all day.

i can definitely tell you're a "gamer." better yet, make that a "troll." lol.

and 256 megs of ram is for peecee weenies who bought computers to serve as over-glorified typewriters. pure genius.

blueBomber

Oct 5, 2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by drbyers
you're just as crazy.

Intel is now using its marketing muscle to try and deflate the advantages of 64 bit performance to the peecee weenies, because Intel knows it doesn't have anything comparible lined up in the near future.

Intel's official position now is that regular desktop users don't need such speedy performance. And intel heads believe them, just go to tomshardware.com.

Ironically, pcworld has come out and said the new AMDs basically smoke anything Intel has to offer on the desktop.

btw, intel used the same lame argument when apple debuted the G4, before unleashing the 'tards in the shiny bunny suits.

ok, but what does that have to do with your original statement of saying that PC users don't care about 64-bit? Users care, but Intel has no chip ready to compete with AMD right now, that's why they are trying to downplay the technology.

And also, not everyone is a power user. Most people simply buy computers to check email and surf the internet. So for those individuals 256 megs of ram is adequate, and 64-bit means nothing. If you can prove to these people that 64-bit will make these tasks faster, they may take interest, but spouting numbers and chip features means nothing.

And I enjoy videogames too. Sorry if you don't take the time to enjoy yourself in your downtime.

drbyers

Oct 5, 2003, 11:15 AM

you just answered all your own questions. try reading your own post.

blueBomber

Oct 5, 2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by drbyers
you just answered all your own questions. try reading your own post.

Now you're not making any logical sense, but that's ok, I've stopped caring about this subject. And I refuse to lower myself to the level of having a petty online argument.

Wash!!

Oct 5, 2003, 11:46 AM

Long live Apple and their products!!!

see ya...:D

Docrjm

Oct 5, 2003, 12:08 PM

Fukui

Oct 5, 2003, 12:55 PM

crookedcharlie

Oct 5, 2003, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by ewinemiller
Your absolutely right. Here's a couple of moments I've had in the last year or so where I sat back and thought "this is cool".

1. In a phone conference with a coworker teaching us a new tool. He was connected to our server using Windows Terminal Services, we used the same thing to shadow his session and could watch every step. The server was in the server room, we were in the board room, he was across the country. Terminal Services (Remote Desktop in XP Pro) is something that has changed the way we do work, for the better. I don't have to carry home a laptop to be on call, a quick VPN connection, terminal services into my machine at work and it's like I'm there.

2. The first time I turned on XP's ClearType. It's absolutely amazing, OSX's font antialiasing does not even come close to its clarity.

3. A couple of months back I wrote a Visual Basic application that used COM (a windows technology) to control Corel Photopaint and do a couple of specific functions. Next I hacked the registry (a database that drives much of windows behavior) to add a couple of new options to the right mouse button menu when selecting image files. Now those functions are integrated features of Explorer, all in 15 minutes worth of work. If you think Cocoa apps are easy to write, you should try VB and COM.

4. A coworker checked in some source code with his SQL Server password in plain text. SQL Server can also execute command lines through a stored procedure so we connected to his SQL Server and used it to send net popups from his machine to other coworkers saying all kinds of outragous stuff. Really you could do this on pretty much any platform you've rooted, but it was still fun ;).

5. We wrote an instant messaging tool for the office using VB and COM+, again VB and COM made it easy to instance an object on the server that relayed the message to all the registered clients.

Likewise I've had a few of those moments with OSX too, like when I got SendMail and the pop3 server up and running then pointed a personal domain at it, and the first time I bought something from the iTunes music store. Windows and OSX are tools, each can do some pretty cool things. If your perception of MS is still Windows 9x, or even just XP, you've missed about 90% of what they do and the technologies they provide. MS may not have something as visible and pretty as an iPod or new G5 and I think they will have a real hard time showing what they do in product placement kind of efforts, but there is plenty of cool in the things they do.

Okay, none of that is cool. iPod is cool. iMac's are cool. Secure SQL blah-blah-blah-clear-font-yadda-yadda? Not so much.

ewinemiller

Oct 5, 2003, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by crookedcharlie
Okay, none of that is cool. iPod is cool. iMac's are cool. Secure SQL blah-blah-blah-clear-font-yadda-yadda? Not so much.

And here is where the cool is in the eye of the beholder comes in. My definition of cool is more around what can that tool or technology do to change or enhance my life. I tend to think things don't qualify as cool as much as ideas and applications.

To me the iPod is not cool, it's just an MP3 player. It's a very nice MP3 player. I have one and like it a lot, but there are hundreds on the market and there is nothing that makes it distinctly unique.

The iMac is pretty and has a distinctive look, but it's not cool. It would not offer a significantly different user experience than any other Mac I use. It changes nothing.

On the other hand the iTunes music store in my eyes is cool, it was the first implementation of that business model that made sense and worked. It offered convenience and quality above and beyond anything else and changed the way I buy music. It is why I bought an iPod.

To me for a technology company to change the way I live or work for the better is cool, Apple has done it, so has MS.

Phil Of Mac

Oct 5, 2003, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by blueBomber
What sold the iMac? Colored plastic. That's it. It ran the same OS as the powermacs at the time, so the whole "3 minute" internet was the same.

At the time, the Power Macs did not have USB.

Lonestar1

Oct 5, 2003, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by cnladd
I have a 64-bit workstation at my desk. Not a Mac. If it were a 32-bit workstation it would be useless to me. There are a group of users to whom 64-bit computing is essential -- this is the group to which Apple is marketing to.

I see no evidence that Apple is going after the workstation market (although I'm sure they will pick up some of them). They aren't after the people to whom 64-bit computing is important today, but the people to whom 64-bit computing will be important tomorrow.

joelc

Oct 5, 2003, 07:02 PM

I question this survey. A G5 is back to school item? MAYBE an iBook, certainly an iPod, but you could get 6 of the best iPods for one of the 1 of the best G5's. I don't think many Dells or Gateways get replaced with G5's, I think they get replaced with iMacs and iBooks.

crookedcharlie

Oct 5, 2003, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by ewinemiller
And here is where the cool is in the eye of the beholder comes in. My definition of cool is more around what can that tool or technology do to change or enhance my life. I tend to think things don't qualify as cool as much as ideas and applications.

To me the iPod is not cool, it's just an MP3 player. It's a very nice MP3 player. I have one and like it a lot, but there are hundreds on the market and there is nothing that makes it distinctly unique.

The iMac is pretty and has a distinctive look, but it's not cool. It would not offer a significantly different user experience than any other Mac I use. It changes nothing.

On the other hand the iTunes music store in my eyes is cool, it was the first implementation of that business model that made sense and worked. It offered convenience and quality above and beyond anything else and changed the way I buy music. It is why I bought an iPod.

To me for a technology company to change the way I live or work for the better is cool, Apple has done it, so has MS.

The point of the article was that kids think macs are cool. Kids couldn't care less about one hundred percent of the things you mentioned.

Moving on, I think Apple's smartest move was making their computers visually distinctive and... well, cool. If you see a FP iMac on CSI: Miami, you know it's an iMac. If you see a Dell whatever-name-their-marketing-department-sounded-like-it-would-appeal-to-certain-demographics, you have no idea that it's a dell, a Compaq, or anything else. That's better than a thousand of those G5 commericals, if you ask me.

Phil Of Mac

Oct 5, 2003, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by joelc
I question this survey. A G5 is back to school item? MAYBE an iBook, certainly an iPod, but you could get 6 of the best iPods for one of the 1 of the best G5's. I don't think many Dells or Gateways get replaced with G5's, I think they get replaced with iMacs and iBooks.

I have a PowerBook. Not an iBook. There's a reason for that.

Mac'em X

Oct 5, 2003, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Petit_Chout
My all-time favourite commercial is the one with the multi-coloured iMacs spinning around to the music of the Rolling Stones. There is something about that commercial that makes me sooo happy, even today.

I'm with you on that one. I don't know that the commercial was particularly popular, and have no idea whether it was even effective in selling more iMacs, but something about it is so appealing. Good music, perfect for the product, and in an ad that no computer maker but Apple would air.

Mac'em X
www.mactivist.com

csimmons

Oct 6, 2003, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by crees!
24!... noooooooooooooo! Jack Bauer will never be able to catch the terrorists now because everyone will be using the PCs for Solitare. Then they'll crash on the final move. Bah.

If you watch the trailer for the upcoming season of "24", Jack Bauer has not only a 17" AluBook on his desk, but a G5 in the background of the scene as well.

Season 1 (!) of "24" just finished airing here in Germany (they're traditionally 1 to 2 years late on TV shows:mad: ), and they were using Macs all over the place.

1adonis1

Oct 6, 2003, 10:14 AM

I dont think MS should worry about what kids think is cool. What kid you know has 2,000+ to shell out for a computer. Who cares what's cool if you cant afford it.

chmilar

Oct 6, 2003, 11:35 AM

The main reason why Apple gets so much product placement on TV and in movies is because of their industrial design. Set designers want to put Apple products on the set, because they look good.

I doubt that Apple has to give free machines to the shows. The set designers just want to use Apple's products.

It certainly helps Apple that their products are visually distinctive. A lot of viewer recognize the gear.

Most of the time, you don't get a good look at the screen, or the apps that are run are fake, and don't even look like real apps. For Apple, it doesn't matter too much if you don't see good onscreen displays.

It will be difficult for Microsoft to make any significant product placement. The only thing that would work would be to have a huge Microsoft logo floating on the screen.

Otherwise, the hardware is just generic, undifferentiated commodity PC gear. It is all interchangable, and mostly ugly. The only way Dell could get an effective product placement is to have a huge "DELL" name painted on.

Windows hardware product placement only benefits Microsoft second hand - ie. if someone says: "I love that ugly, generic Dell computer I saw on Show X", they'll probably get stuck with Windoze, because they're not smart enough to order it with Linux.

giba

Oct 6, 2003, 01:22 PM

If this works as well as their "Trustworthy Computing" campaign then we've got reason to be scared.

2jaded2care

Oct 6, 2003, 02:10 PM

I think most movies and tv programs show Macs because a lot of people in the production industry use Macs (certainly editors do!). Maybe it's because Macs were first with the graphical interface; maybe it's because of their ease-of-use and tight integration of features (hard to achieve in the uncontrolled PC world); maybe it's just because it's not Windows, whose earlier OS's looked like they were designed by accountants. Anyway, lots (NOT all) of creative people use Macs. Similarly, lots (NOT all) of Mac users tend to be creative. A machine, however, won't buy you creativity (rats!).

That said, I think anyone on "24" using a PC is probably a mole. And if M$ pays enough to get Jack Bauer to use XP, I just hope it's not as shameless as the Ford Focus logo closeups on "Alias"!

PS - You can also spot Macs on the Brit show "MI-5", which is shown on some cable channel or another.

tychay

Oct 6, 2003, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by ebow
Funny that they should mention the show "24." Last night I saw an ad for the new season, and in one scene a man of some importance (guessing he's a central character) was using either a PBG4 or an Apple display, in a clip just after that you could see him working on a PowerBook, and in the background was a very slightly out-of-focus G5. I don't watch the show (but the ads may have tempted me to give it a shot) so this may be nothing new...

I've only seen Season 1 of 24 on DVD. They had a mix of Dells and Macs. As a Mac user, it was easy to tell who the bad guys are... they were all using Dells.

SPOILER: We were able to use this to find out who the traitors were among the good guys. Whoops!

(Well, to be honest here, I'm also a Dell user.)

I guess it's the prop manager's fault (http://www.apple.com/pro/photo/rush/). Bless him!

Nice to see Microsoft paying for product placement. I'm getting tired of seeing all these Macs on TV running Windows (every ad for Comcast, for example). About time there were some Mediacenter PCs and tablets on TV. I've been wondering what they're supposed to be used for for a while now.

take care,

tychay

Oct 6, 2003, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Let me know if I'm wrong on this but don't you have to purchase this software spep? And it’s not really designed around the home consumer. The software is business oriented.

In the case of XP it’s built into the OS ready to use out of the box. In fact non XP systems, even Mac I believe as long as you are using a TSC, can remote control an XP system out of the box.

No, it is built into XP Pro out of the box. Though the client can be used from almost any version of Windows and even Mac OS X (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.aspx?pid=download&location=/mac/DOWNLOAD/MISC/RDC.xml&secid=80&ssid=9&flgnosysreq=True)!

Yes, you have to purchase the software mentioned (Apple Remote Desktop (http://www.apple.com/remotedesktop/)). No, the software isn't business-oriented, it's mostly targeted toward mac labs and classrooms where an administrator/teacher's computer can remotely monitor multiple Macs and later marketed for business. The costs are quite reasonable ($300 for 10 clients, $500 for unlimited--note Apple's idea of a "client" is a server in the windows world because the usage is typically reversed in the above settings). When you consider that in the Windows world you need Windows NT4, Windows 2000 Server(?), or XP Pro for every machine that runs as a server... the costs don't scale nearly as well.

While I find your VB and ActiveX/COM examples apt (and telling too, this is partly why Windows is fundamentally insecure), I found the others poor examples of the strength of Microsoft products. (There are strengths... just not necessarily in the areas you mentioned.)

Your first example was done long before Microsoft stole the idea. Look up Norton pcAnywhere (http://www.symantec.com/pcanywhere/) and Citrix (http://www.citrix.com/) who have had this feature for a long time. In fact, RDC/Terminal Services is your typical Microsoft tactic of using bundling + monopoly abuse. Nothing new here.

Any old Mac head can tell you that there has been Timbuktu (http://www.netopia.com/software/products/tb2/mac/) around for ages to be in the exact same situation you mention. The difference is that Apple Remote Desktop is priced and marketed to a different market so as to not wipe such a five-star product out of business.

Personally, I use VNC (http://www.realvnc.com/) which allows me to control my Linux servers from my Mac (many (http://sourceforge.net/projects/cotvnc/) mac (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/11993) clients (http://www.mdimension.com/)) (or my Palm (http://palmvnc2.free.fr/)) and remotely control my Macs (http://www.redstonesoftware.com/osxvnc/) and it supports Windows too. Heck there is a Mac version specific for the use case you mentioned (http://www.bombich.com/software/smd.html). Total cost $0. Note you need to come up with another solution for file transfer (no problem... in the Mac world you can choose your poison: WebDAV, FTP, or AppleShare.

True, Apple doesn't implement ClearType since that's a trademarked term for subpixel rendering which Apple does implement. It's the "Medium - Best for Flat Panel" settings on your General preference pane. You can also do regular anti-aliasing and it seems to work in more situations than the Windows version. Again, not a good example.

If you think VB and COM are easy to write you should try AppleScript Studio (http://www.apple.com/applescript/studio/) and GUI scripting (http://www.apple.com/applescript/GUI/). Again you don't have to spring a single $ for the developer tools. Though I give you points because more of the features are exposed in COM than your typical AppleScript dictionary, of course it can be just as tricky to program as using someone's Cocoa library and all the good stuff from Microsoft has a nasty tendency not to be documented...

The SQL server is a bad example--talk to your DBA. Besides, I'm morally against using stored procedures because it locks you into a particular DB vendor, forces you to learn some obscure non standard SQL, and mixes data and application logic. Your example would be better served in a LAMP or MAMP platform. It sure costs a lot less to.

I agree totally with your VB + COM example. I'll add too that a lot of people are familiar with the Visual Studio development environment which adds a lot of value to this situation. However, the application you mention would be better served by running a Jabber (http://www.jabber.org/) client/server since it wouldn't require any coding, is free, and has no vendor or platform lock.

Take care,

terry

ryaxnb

Oct 6, 2003, 10:13 PM

Here's a brief cost comparsion:
10 Mac OS X liscenses & 10-client remote desktop: $1,589.
10 copies of XP Pro upgrade (not full): $1,990.

drbyers

Oct 6, 2003, 10:15 PM

why would anybody buy a windows OS upgrade? lol.

giba

Oct 6, 2003, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by drbyers
why would anybody buy a windows OS upgrade? lol.

Windows has upgrades!? I thought only downgrades are available for Windows

drbyers

Oct 6, 2003, 10:55 PM

alright, enough with the comedy... that's MY job. lol

Jagga

Oct 8, 2003, 02:09 AM

The Mac is Fresh, janu fa real!!

About Macs in advertising...love it but I think they've been a little soft lately. The G5 PowerMac ad is well below Apple's standards.
Of my favorite qoute "whats coming to you chico?" "The world, and everything in it!" Best believe I want no less than a commercial that signifies this about the PowerMac G5 or OS X Panther from Apple!

to bluebomber who said: "And also, not everyone is a power user. Most people simply buy computers to check email and surf the internet. So for those individuals 256 megs of ram is adequate, and 64-bit means nothing. If you can prove to these people that 64-bit will make these tasks faster, they may take interest, but spouting numbers and chip features means nothing."

I disagree. That statement regarding the average user buying just for Internet or emailing might have been valid in christmas 2000/2001 ~ hence the significant downfall in complete system purchases and significant uprise in component upgrades during the same turn. Games are becoming more sophisticated, faster and more involving for the "end user", however they're still just single threaded on average. However, since the last year alone your so called average user/buyer isn't just emailing or surfing on their computer (heck cell phones can do what most of them or doing that for), but they're setting up website, weblogs, P2P file sharing ALL of which can benefit significantly from 64-bit computing (CPUs and software). No longer is it just banks and government using SUN/Cisco Systems/IBM/SGI 64-bit applications some SOHOs now are in that need. Straight up & down, I must be the only person registered on this forum that can't setup a basic website. However, those that can probably use Apache, Perl, MySQL, etc to setup a database server much like the this one we're all participating in. And the beauty of OS X is that MySQL & Apache ships with it! XP Pro/Win2KPro will only allow up to 7 users max to connect to those servers (full install no add-ons) at a time; pathetic! I may need more facts, but I see a trend of a 40% increase of programmers worldwide, along with the average user doing more=hence the major purchases to higher speed/bandwidth hardware (that email or web surfing won't take advantage of)!

Baleeedat!

PS for the ever ongoing debate on PC vs. Mac......When you Macheads size & position your system wide windows, sorry, Finder, Safari, iTunes around your desktop when in use—you know have a favorite corner of where you have safari or iTunes—and when you log-off and another user logs on and changes where they’ll use those same apps on the desktop does it affect/show on your desktop when you log back on? I cant stand this in Win2K or XP Pro