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saltyzoo
Dec 27, 2007, 12:35 PM
I'm pretty new to mac, and I only know them as intel machines, so I'm a little clueless here.

I'm considering purchasing a Mac Pro to use as a server and I don't need a huge amount of horsepower. From a technical point of view a G5 will do me just fine.

But what I'm not sure of is what I might be missing in running a PowerPC rather than intel. Is there certain software that won't run on the old hardware, or any other incompatibilities I need to be aware of?

Thanks in advance.



Eidorian
Dec 27, 2007, 12:38 PM
I wouldn't consider you to be that new. ;)

Unless you need the expansion and RAM of a tower a Mac mini Core 2 would be fine.

http://www.primatelabs.ca/blog/2007/08/mac-performance-august-2007/

To make a long story short, I've sat through several Apple seminars and 64-bit on Intel seems to be the answer.

saltyzoo
Dec 27, 2007, 12:43 PM
I wouldn't consider you to be that new. ;)

Unless you need the expansion and RAM of a tower a Mac mini Core 2 would be fine.

http://www.primatelabs.ca/blog/2007/08/mac-performance-august-2007/

To make a long story short, I've sat through several Apple seminars and 64-bit on Intel seems to be the answer.

Disk speed, expandability, and RAM is why the pro is a better choice for me than the mini. dual G5 2 Gig will be more than enough cpu for me.

My question is more compatibility. One would assume that if it runs Leopard, there wouldn't be any compatibility problems, but assuming is a bad thing.

PS> I've got a couple dual core mini's already. ;)

Eidorian
Dec 27, 2007, 12:45 PM
Disk speed, expandability, and RAM is why the pro is a better choice for me than the mini. dual G5 2 Gig will be more than enough cpu for me.

My question is more compatibility. One would assume that if it runs Leopard, there wouldn't be any compatibility problems, but assuming is a bad thing.

PS> I've got a couple dual core mini's already. ;)Raptors run well in iMac G5 (Rev. A/B) ;)

64-bit Intel is going to give you the best support from Leopard according to Apple. I've noticed that G5's are much more perky as well moving to Leopard.

Eric5h5
Dec 27, 2007, 12:57 PM
Is there certain software that won't run on the old hardware, or any other incompatibilities I need to be aware of?

Yes, there is some software that won't run on G5s. Mostly some recent games, but there are at least a couple of Intel-only apps. On the other hand, there's still far more PPC-only software than Universal or Intel-only software, and PPC software on Intel-based Macs has to run through Rosetta, which is sometimes too slow or glitchy. So you'd actually have a much larger base of native software available for a G5, but it depends on what you want to run, exactly. Compatibility depends largely on the individual apps, not the operating system.

--Eric

Eidorian
Dec 27, 2007, 12:59 PM
Yes, there is some software that won't run on G5s. Mostly some recent games, but there are at least a couple of Intel-only apps. On the other hand, there's still far more PPC-only software than Universal or Intel-only software, and PPC software on Intel-based Macs has to run through Rosetta, which is sometimes too slow or glitchy. So you'd actually have a much larger base of native software available for a G5, but it depends on what you want to run, exactly. Compatibility depends largely on the individual apps, not the operating system.

--EricHopefully the OP already took into account Intel-only applications.

Right? ;)

saltyzoo
Dec 27, 2007, 01:16 PM
Hopefully the OP already took into account Intel-only applications.

Right? ;)

No, that's what I'm asking. What kind of stuff is intel only? Any examples? How can you tell?

Eidorian
Dec 27, 2007, 01:17 PM
No, that's what I'm asking. What kind of stuff is intel only? Any examples? How can you tell?There's a chunk of 64-bit Leopard that's Intel only.

I was more concerned about application software.

saltyzoo
Dec 27, 2007, 01:19 PM
There's a chunk of 64-bit Leopard that's Intel only.

I was more concerned about application software.

So am I. Somehow I think I'm not communicating well. I'm asking what things I might run into that wouldn't run on the G5 and how would I know if it would run or not?

Eidorian
Dec 27, 2007, 01:21 PM
So am I. Somehow I think I'm not communicating well. I'm asking what things I might run into that wouldn't run on the G5 and how would I know if it would run or not?I don't know what application software you want to run. :p

Techguy172
Dec 27, 2007, 06:09 PM
He wants to know all the applications that don't work on G5's.

Eidorian
Dec 27, 2007, 06:11 PM
He wants to know all the applications that don't work on G5's.I don't know what he wants to run.

It could be Apache to Filemaker Server to VMWare.

I can't give a hardware solution unless I know what goal you're trying to reach.

saltyzoo
Dec 27, 2007, 06:12 PM
He wants to know all the applications that don't work on G5's.

No, I just asked for an example, and how to tell what wouldn't run.

I don't know what he wants to run.

It could be Apache to Filemaker Server to VMWare.

I can't give a hardware solution unless I know what goal you're trying to reach.

I want to know how to find out myself. An example and a clue on how to do that would be helpful.

Eidorian
Dec 27, 2007, 06:15 PM
I want to know how to find out myself. An example and a clue on how to do that would be helpful.Begin with a goal in mind.

saltyzoo
Dec 27, 2007, 06:32 PM
Begin with a goal in mind.

I have a goal. I'd like to know how I can tell if an app will run on a G5. Apparently I'm not going to achieve that goal here.

Eidorian
Dec 27, 2007, 06:34 PM
I have a goal. I'd like to know how I can tell if an app will run on a G5. Apparently I'm not going to achieve that goal here.Most applications do provide easily found system requirements. A good OS X developer will go for a Universal Binary. (PowerPC & Intel)

What is your goal then?

thejadedmonkey
Dec 27, 2007, 06:38 PM
I have a goal. I'd like to know how I can tell if an app will run on a G5. Apparently I'm not going to achieve that goal here.

Ask, and yee shall recieve. Just go to the developers website and see what they say. If it says "Universal", it's designed for both. If it says PPC only, it's PPC only, and if it says intel only, it's intel only.

Some software can not run under rosetta, and it'll be listed as such under the requirements.

Generally, whatever it says under the system requirements is what you'll need.

saltyzoo
Dec 28, 2007, 08:35 AM
Ask, and yee shall recieve. Just go to the developers website and see what they say. If it says "Universal", it's designed for both. If it says PPC only, it's PPC only, and if it says intel only, it's intel only.

Some software can not run under rosetta, and it'll be listed as such under the requirements.

Generally, whatever it says under the system requirements is what you'll need.

Thanks, that was helpful.

So I have to trust the developer to tell me? There's no way to tell by the package itself? Bummer.

BTW, I doubt it will be an issue since apache / mysql is 99% of all I'll need, but I want to make an informed decision. What you don't know is usually what bites you on the arse.

tronic72
Dec 30, 2007, 04:01 AM
Am I missing something? In your first sentence you said you want to use the machine as a server. If so, why the issues regarding software compatibility? Your only going to use 10.5 server which runs fine. Sure you might add a few things such as SQL and Third Party E-mail software but all of that will be fine on the G5. Have put heaps of G5s in Studios without any issues. The only issue would be the G5 is limited to 2 HDs but this can be doubled for a few hundred $$.

Save your money. For the price of the Mac pro you can have a G5 as a server and an iMac, Macbook or Macbook Pro for your desktop.

saltyzoo
Dec 30, 2007, 04:21 AM
Am I missing something? In your first sentence you said you want to use the machine as a server. If so, why the issues regarding software compatibility? Your only going to use 10.5 server which runs fine. Sure you might add a few things such as SQL and Third Party E-mail software but all of that will be fine on the G5. Have put heaps of G5s in Studios without any issues. The only issue would be the G5 is limited to 2 HDs but this can be doubled for a few hundred $$.

Save your money. For the price of the Mac pro you can have a G5 as a server and an iMac, Macbook or Macbook Pro for your desktop.

You're not missing anything. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Actually the 2 hard drive limitation is something I didn't realize.

Consultant
Dec 30, 2007, 04:39 AM
There are DIFFERENT definition to being a server. You need to clarify.

- Run OSX server
- High performance RAID server for video storage
- Low requirement server running low CPU apps
- Media server connected to TV
- etc.

Typically one requirement is ability to install additional harddrives, which seems to be a requirement for yod because you are looking into PowerMac or Mac Pro (instead of a Mac Mini or PowerMac G4).

saltyzoo
Dec 30, 2007, 05:31 AM
There are DIFFERENT definition to being a server. You need to clarify.

- Run OSX server
- High performance RAID server for video storage
- Low requirement server running low CPU apps
- Media server connected to TV
- etc.

Typically one requirement is ability to install additional harddrives, which seems to be a requirement for yod because you are looking into PowerMac or Mac Pro (instead of a Mac Mini or PowerMac G4).

For the most part it will be just a simple MAMP (Mac Apache MySQL PHP) server. RAID would be nice, but not necessary. Expandable, reasonably fast disks. But who knows what other things I might decide to run on it someday? That's why I want to understand the limitations of non-intel.

rdowns
Dec 30, 2007, 05:55 AM
Seems to me that if you are so concerned with the limitations of a discontinued architecture, then you should go Intel. The limitations of the G5 will only worsen with time.

saltyzoo
Dec 30, 2007, 07:31 AM
Seems to me that if you are so concerned with the limitations of a discontinued architecture, then you should go Intel. The limitations of the G5 will only worsen with time.

Wanting to know what the situation is isn't "so concerned". It's just smart.

Mac_Max
Jan 1, 2008, 11:00 PM
So basically you want it to just be a web server? Depending on the load and size of the databases you plan on running, anything from an old Powermac 7500 to an XServe could fit your needs.

If it's just for a personal site/ftp server/file server sort of deal, pick up a G4 (going rate for these is between 100-300 these days from what I've seen) or Mini and be done with it. If you want more storage you can use an external hard drive or run an SATA cable from the Mini's internal HD connector to an SATA hard drive in an external case. Newegg has a mini look alike case made by ADS for $17. It's a good USB 2.0 case and could be easily modified to E-SATA or a simple hole for a standard SATA cable could be made. A few people have done this (booted the mini from an external SATA HD), just do some googling.

Better yet, if you have a computer to recycle you may just want to go that way. MySQL, Apache, phpmyadmin, etc are all open source so PPC support is unlikely to be removed from the source tree for the foreseeable future.

The software you're talking about is pretty ubiquitous so there won't be any limitations per se. There are still people out there with old Power Macs and Quadras as file servers. When it's finally "forgotten" by Apple, just move it over to Yellow Dog Linux or another PPC linux distro.