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MacBytes
Dec 27, 2007, 08:26 PM
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Category: Reviews
Link: Dellís All-in-One PC Has the Guts, Design to Compete With iMac (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20071227212638)
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BenRoethig
Dec 27, 2007, 08:56 PM
I can see three areas where the XPS bests the iMac. A) the the two USB2.0 ports on the side (and the extra one on the back.) B) card reader (you guys might not use them, but a lot of us do) and C) the inclusion of a TV tuner. Otherwise you are looking at a machine that is slower and more expensive than the 20" iMac.

SkyBell
Dec 27, 2007, 09:15 PM
Why do these companies think they can succeed with an iMac look-a-like? Sure, they may get a few sales, but nowhere near enough to justify keeping the computer in their lineup.

shadowfax
Dec 27, 2007, 10:23 PM
it's a nice design overall. I really like the TV tuner idea, and the layout of the plugs seems pretty sweet.

SPUY767
Dec 28, 2007, 10:57 AM
I can see three areas where the XPS bests the iMac. A) the the two USB2.0 ports on the side (and the extra one on the back.) B) card reader (you guys might not use them, but a lot of us do) and C) the inclusion of a TV tuner. Otherwise you are looking at a machine that is slower and more expensive than the 20" iMac.

TV Tuner I'll give you as a good Elgato product costs upward of 200$, I would never use it, but I can see where someone might. A card reader is 19$, so that's not even worth mucking up the exterior of an iMac for. RAM is so cheap, ****, Fry's had FOUR Gigs 2x2GB sticks for 84$, and that was Corsair, not Joe ******* brand. On the one hand, Apple should be including more RAM with their machines, on the other, it adds unnecessary costs, even tho we all know that Apple could include 4GB with these iMacs and not even dent their profit margins appreciably. The bottom line is, that iMac clones never have sold all that well, because remarkably enough, in the personal computer arena, people seem to shun knock offs, which this dell clearly is.

BenRoethig
Dec 28, 2007, 12:08 PM
TV Tuner I'll give you as a good Elgato product costs upward of 200$, I would never use it, but I can see where someone might. A card reader is 19$, so that's not even worth mucking up the exterior of an iMac for. RAM is so cheap, ****, Fry's had FOUR Gigs 2x2GB sticks for 84$, and that was Corsair, not Joe ******* brand. On the one hand, Apple should be including more RAM with their machines, on the other, it adds unnecessary costs, even tho we all know that Apple could include 4GB with these iMacs and not even dent their profit margins appreciably. The bottom line is, that iMac clones never have sold all that well, because remarkably enough, in the personal computer arena, people seem to shun knock offs, which this dell clearly is.

That and Apple has already has a monopoly for the small market for all in ones.

Eidorian
Dec 28, 2007, 12:11 PM
TV Tuner I'll give you as a good Elgato product costs upward of 200$, I would never use it, but I can see where someone might. A card reader is 19$, so that's not even worth mucking up the exterior of an iMac for. RAM is so cheap, ****, Fry's had FOUR Gigs 2x2GB sticks for 84$, and that was Corsair, not Joe ******* brand. On the one hand, Apple should be including more RAM with their machines, on the other, it adds unnecessary costs, even tho we all know that Apple could include 4GB with these iMacs and not even dent their profit margins appreciably. The bottom line is, that iMac clones never have sold all that well, because remarkably enough, in the personal computer arena, people seem to shun knock offs, which this dell clearly is.I'm sure that external card reader looks great plugged into your iMac. ;)

That aside, you know Dell's normally ship with Micron (a.k.a Crucial) memory right? Not like Apple isn't scraping the bottom of the OEM barrel like everyone else.

Techguy172
Dec 28, 2007, 01:10 PM
Why do these companies think they can succeed with an iMac look-a-like? Sure, they may get a few sales, but nowhere near enough to justify keeping the computer in their lineup.

Oh, Boy you have a lot to learn.

Overall I like the design is very nice the Tv tuner is a great idea as well as USB ports apple need more of those. The only thing missing is the good graphics card.

solvs
Dec 30, 2007, 02:23 AM
I'm sure that external card reader looks great plugged into your iMac. ;)
An internal one would add unneeded weight and size on the notebooks, and with an iMac, I usually just plug the camera into the computer anyway. I could see where that would be nice for some people, but it's one of those extras I don't see them added. Aesthetically, it wouldn't look very pleasing internally either. I would like to see more USB ports though.

That aside, you know Dell's normally ship with Micron (a.k.a Crucial) memory right? Not like Apple isn't scraping the bottom of the OEM barrel like everyone else.
Most of the Apple's I use at work have Micron or Samsung. I've seen some Hynix and other brands as well, but they're all usually pretty good. I wish Apple put more in there too though, or at least made it cheaper. Dell used to charge an arm and a leg for upgrades like that, but have since wised up. I always buy 3rd party anyway, but shouldn't have to.

Eidorian
Dec 30, 2007, 02:28 AM
An internal one would add unneeded weight and size on the notebooks, and with an iMac, I usually just plug the camera into the computer anyway. I could see where that would be nice for some people, but it's one of those extras I don't see them added. Aesthetically, it wouldn't look very pleasing internally either. I would like to see more USB ports though.Front Row Remote magnetized to the side of an iMac. :p


Most of the Apple's I use at work have Micron or Samsung. I've seen some Hynix and other brands as well, but they're all usually pretty good. I wish Apple put more in there too though, or at least made it cheaper. Dell used to charge an arm and a leg for upgrades like that, but have since wised up. I always buy 3rd party anyway, but shouldn't have to.Just like everyone else.

Apple needs to really lower their RAM upgrade prices though.

Big-TDI-Guy
Dec 30, 2007, 02:29 AM
Well then, Apple should include a card reader hidden in the bottom of a mouse, or the back of the keyboard.

Somewhat out of sight, but easy to get to.

There.

Apple has the OS - that is my only reason for paying more for "less".

solvs
Dec 30, 2007, 02:36 AM
Front Row Remote magnetized to the side of an iMac. :p
Hey, I liked that, and I was sorry to see it go in the Al iMacs.

Just like everyone else.
Ah, sorry, I missed your point. Yeah, I agree. It's decent enough RAM, but it's not that good. Like I said, I always just buy 3rd party. I wish I didn't have to.

Well then, Apple should include a card reader hidden in the bottom of a mouse, or the back of the keyboard.
Yeah, maybe. I just wish there was only 1 type of card. And they didn't keep changing them all the time. Then I could see it. Until then, you're stuck going USB.

And actually, probably not even then.

Eidorian
Dec 30, 2007, 02:40 AM
Hey, I liked that, and I was sorry to see it go in the Al iMacs.I liked it as well but it didn't meet Apple's previous design aesthetics.

Ah, sorry, I missed your point. Yeah, I agree. It's decent enough RAM, but it's not that good. Like I said, I always just buy 3rd party. I wish I didn't have to.I don't mind third party RAM but Apple does ridiculously overcharge for 4 GB of RAM.

Big-TDI-Guy
Dec 30, 2007, 02:48 AM
Over charge? Apple does not over charge for ram. What Apple does - well, let's just say I'm surprised I haven't yet seen them on Law and Order SVU for what they're doing. ;)

Sesshi
Dec 30, 2007, 05:38 AM
The other small point is that it is actually a desktop computer in terms of system architecture, unlike the iMac which is a laptop. I'll wager that the E6550 system would place pretty much on a par with the top-dog iMac in terms of overall performance. Of course, Apple have judged the better 'avg joe' perception due to it using an 'Extreme' CPU as opposed to a midrange chip from the desktop range. As usual it's all about the flash, baby.

Nevertheless, I'd like to see a 24" version before I think about one to replace the 2.8 iMac.

cwt1nospam
Dec 30, 2007, 05:11 PM
I'll wager that the E6550 system would place pretty much on a par with the top-dog iMac in terms of overall performance.
Would that be with or without the required AV software running on the Dell? :D And while we're at it, how would it perform when the AV software didn't catch the latest variant of Storm and it's busy sending out spam and reporting your sensitive information to its bot herder? :eek:

Sesshi
Dec 31, 2007, 03:22 AM
Only if the user is being always careless.

This is one of those myths which is propagated by the holier-than-thou Apple element who're in reality no better informed than the most bottom-feeding of the Windows users.

I run no resident AV's on those systems on which I want the last percent of performance from, with an unattended sweep which is perhaps less onerous than an Onyx run in terms of what I have to do. On my more general-purpose systems I run good AV's with no real performance impact, and even McAfee (shipping standard on Dell systems) doesn't generally have a noticeably negative impact. I also run web filters upstream for threats which can affect both platforms. Nevertheless, since I switched to Windows 95 from System 6-7 back in the 90's I haven't had a single virus or malware - which goes to prove that a reasonably intelligent guy can remain completely unaffected on Windows.

And how long are you going to stay safe in obscurity (since OS X is essentially no more inherently secure than Vista) now that malware writers can see that it's easier to take candy from a (complacent through 'Apples don't get viruses' repeated) Apple than a (better-educated by default) Windows user?

Digital Skunk
Dec 31, 2007, 03:45 AM
The only thing I need to move me over from the Mac world is the software. Not the kiddy stuff either. When there is a worthy replacement for Final Cut Studio 2, Aperture, and iWork and the way all those apps integrate with each other I will go out and buy every PC variation there is. I have my eyes set on that 11.1" Sony and the HP Blackbird 002, but limiting myself and making my job harder is out of the question.

Sesshi
Dec 31, 2007, 03:56 AM
I use Vegas in place of FCP. I have FCP but I just prefer how Vegas works for my uses. I've been trialling Lightroom and Aperture together since I need to move up from ACDSee (which I moved to when I grew out - very quickly - from iPhoto) and for reasons of platform flexibility as well as general usability, I've decided to go Lightroom. iWork... well, you know the alternative to that. There are options, and very good ones - it's just that most people only take what they're spoon-fed.

The Sony is excellent - my TZ's are with me pretty much wherever I go. With Vista (and after the unfortunately obligatory two hours spent with the notebook out of the box removing the mountain of Crapware), it's just a vastly superior true portable to anything that Apple offers. I have my eye on the Blackbird as well, but I'm looking for a notable graphics card improvement from my Dell 710H2C's before I make the move.

Digital Skunk
Dec 31, 2007, 03:58 AM
I use Vegas in place of FCP. I have FCP but I just prefer how Vegas works for my uses. I've been trialling Lightroom and Aperture and for reasons of platform flexibility as well as general usability I've decided to go Lightroom. iWork... well, you know the alternative to that. There are options, and very good ones - it's just that most people only take what they're spoon-fed.

Yeah, which in most cases is Office over iWork, so I switched to see if I could get a more multimedia rich experience, and although the suite is very limited compared to Office, it handles media like no other app I have found and easily. And as for FCP, I was trained on Avid Express Studio first, on a PC no less. The biggest problems I have with that app are it's price, and it's buggy performance on Windows. While still in college I decided to pickup FCP even though Avid is far superior and to my benefit the Mac ran Avid as well, and with no problems at all.

Adobe Premier came into the fray and I jumped on that app as well, but it wasn't until recently that the app became a true performer against FCS2 and Avid Media Composer but it's still missing many features, although After Effects and Encore top Motion and DVD Studio Pro, the main meat of the suite was Premier, and it didn't work the way Avid and FCP did.

For the price, performance with standard hardware, and features FCS2 is king, although the Apple hardware could really use a boost and a redesign to be more robust.

Now the students I talk to tend to want to use FCP and nothing else. Many don't even bother with Avid. Their loss since it's still the industry standard app in many news broadcast corporations.

Sesshi
Dec 31, 2007, 04:14 AM
Once again I suppose it depends on whether you're looking for skills which you can apply to for work. Apples undoubtedly have a historical edge in media production and you can see that the general Apple environment still has a very heavy leaning for professional media production. I do understand from the postings that the most regular hangers-out here are pretty heavily graphics design / video production / web media orientated and that would skew their preferences.

I'm not a graphic designer by profession although I've won design awards. I'm not a video producer by profession although I self-produce 'virtual lectures'. So having no need to choose a tool by how it applies to the industry I'm trying to get a job in, I'm free to choose what works best for me. So for me, Vegas > FCP, Lightroom > Aperture although the general capabilities of both apps on aggregate are very similar.

On moving to the Steve-emphasised 'digital home hub' platform however, I was surprised to find though that the Apple lags in terms of media for personal entertainment, with Windows having stronger (if less well-known or outwardly glitzy) capabilities in this regard. With machines like the XPS One, I would imagine that's a big factor.

Digital Skunk
Dec 31, 2007, 04:25 AM
So having no need to choose a tool because of how it applies to the industry I'm trying to get a job in, I'm free to choose what works best for me.

You're lucky my friend. I always considered the consumers around me to be very blessed in the knowledge that the tech world is pretty much open to them. I wouldn't mind buying an iMac and a VAIO to do my day to day, but alas.

On moving to the Steve-emphasised 'digital home hub' platform however, I was surprised to find though that the Apple lags in terms of media for personal entertainment, with Windows having stronger (if less well-known or outwardly glitzy) capabilities in this regard. With machines like the XPS One, I would imagine that's a big factor.[/QUOTE]

This is where Apple really dropped the ball in my opinion. Steve is really dragging his feet in terms of the digital home/media hub for the average joe. The tools work, but they aren't as full featured as many would have hoped and many users find themselves wanting to learn to live without and go Apple rather than learn to live without Apple and get tools with better features.

And the lack of many media accessories on Apple's machines goes without saying that Apple isn't really making a noble attempt. It always made me wonder if Apple just worked on one gimmicky iPhone like product at a time, then when it was half done they unveiled it to the oohs and ahhs of people that would buy it even if it were butter on a stick.

IMHO the only thing keeping Apple afloat right now is the hype and the flashy presentation. In 2008, if Apple doesn't show users some real tech I feel their public opinion will drop.