iTunes Music Store Europe - May 2004?

[MacRumors]

The most recent hints from Apple about the European version of their iTunes Music Store have placed its launch in 2004 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030916135743.shtml), based on comments from Steve Jobs after Apple Expo Paris.

And indeed, according to new information, Apple and the Record Labels are targetting May of 2004 as the current goal for the launch of the European iTunes Music Store.

As previously hinted, regional distribution legal issues have been complicating matters, and appear to account for the delay in deploying in the European market.

[Sheebahawk]

thats realistic for a guess. I expected it would take about as long when the north american store debuted.

I just wated to post first

[ryme4reson]

God Bless the US? Sorry to hear that EURO will be delayed.

[AmigoMac]

yuuuuuuuuupi! Great, but still 8 "Poisoned" months ....;)

[Wardofsky]

I'm still not cheering until it comes to Australia.
We do exist...

[freddiecable]

bring it on! we're waiting and we're going to boost the sales even more :)

[trilogic]

would be good for apple if they can launch there music service before anyone else.

[rikers_mailbox]

"One reason the RIAA strategy is having a limited effect is that the organization can pursue only file traders violating U.S. laws. Even if all Americans stop sharing their record collections on the Internet, millions of files would still be available from foreign swappers. Some forty percent of peer-to-peer users hail from overseas. And other national music-trade groups, like those in Britain and Australia, have said they have no current plans to file U.S.-style lawsuits."

Quoted from ::
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=18740

Is this one reason Apple is in no hurry for iTMS-Europe? I mean, think about it. Why should they RUSH to finish it when the users don't have to worry about "illegally" downloaded music? It's not worth their time and effort since it doesn't mean drastically increased revenues from iTMS.

just an observation. . .

-rik

[Nermal]

I'm not from Europe but I think this is worth sharing:

Earlier this year, a local computer magazine stated that Sony NZ and Universal NZ (I think) have spoken with Apple and iTMS is on track here for February 2004.

However, this month's issue of the same magazine says that Apple hasn't spoken to any record labels in NZ :confused:

[freddiecable]

even though I sometimes dl mp3s and such I will use iTunes Music Store when it hits Europe!

[leenoble]

Originally posted by Macrumors
As previously hinted, regional distribution legal issues have been complicating matters, and appear to account for the delay in deploying in the European market.

Translation: The record companies still want to screw the muppets in Britain for more money than the rest of the world...because they can.

[awulf]

Originally posted by Wardofsky
I'm still not cheering until it comes to Australia.
We do exist...

I have to agree with you on that one.

[vienna_one]

I hope that Apple will finally realize that Europe is worth to be considered in its business plans after the iTMS launch.

Not by soft facts but by record sales.

My credit card is waiting.

[Kamu-San]

I don't think that Apple is the problem (here), but the record companies.

[bluedalmatian]

I still think they're wrong treating europe as one country. launch it in each individual country as and when its possible rather than waiting to launch accross all countries simultaneously.

EUROPE IS NOT, AND NEVER WILL BE ONE COUNTRTY. IT IS NOT LIKE THE USA

[airbag]

It's really annoing: first, it took ages for the features in iPhoto to come to Europe (ordering prints, book), Sherlock is still of absolutely no value to us, and now: no itms!

But just think about it ... Europe:

Total countries: 42
Members of EU: 15
Current Eurozone: 12

For this to work, Apple has to do something revolutionary: they have to bring all these countries together - with their different copyright-laws and distribution-laws - and join them i one homogenous itms-system! This is obviosly not done over night!

Furthermore, for itms Europe to be a success, they have to offer a large library of local artists, from every single country!

And then you have Asia, Eurasia and the all rest....

I hope Apple is going for total world domination!!

[Tagada]

Originally posted by airbag
... Europe:

Total countries: 42
Members of EU: 15
Current Eurozone: 12
...
That's it, you got the explanation.

They are waiting may 2004 because EU members state will then jump to 25 !

[hvfsl]

The Apple store will need to be a lot cheaper than CDs or it will not be worth it for me. The problem is I use a Mac as a server with all my music on it, it is accessed by both Macs and PCs. But it I started buying Apple Store music, the other computers would not be able to access it because of the restrictions on the music.

The only thing that could solve it is if Apple's iTunes for Windows includes the same networking technology as in the Mac version. Otherwise I will just keep on buying CDs.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by airbag


But just think about it ... Europe:

Total countries: 42
Members of EU: 15
Current Eurozone: 12

For this to work, Apple has to do something revolutionary: they have to bring all these countries together - with their different copyright-laws and distribution-laws - and join them i one homogenous itms-system! This is obviosly not done over night!

Even if Apple started out with just the big countries UK, Germany, France, Italy and Spain they'd still have a market rivalling the US in population terms. I know it's not fair on the smaller countries but isn't getting a foothold important here? If Apple gets these 5 sorted they can launch then start on the others

[airbag]

Originally posted by Tagada
That's it, you got the explanation.

They are waiting may 2004 because EU members state will then jump to 25 !



Perhaps, perhaps not... The Eurozone will still only include 12 countries ... and will remain so for some time as far as I know.

And: even the EU-members today don't necessarily share common laws when it comes to copyright etc.

I'm not sure if the inclusion of 10 more countries in the EU solves any of the problems...

[booshtukka]

well THAT sucks.

[airbag]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Even if Apple started out with just the big countries UK, Germany, France, Italy and Spain they'd still have a market rivalling the US in population terms. I know it's not fair on the smaller countries but isn't getting a foothold important here? If Apple gets these 5 sorted they can launch then start on the others

Yeah, you may be right! But then, why the delay?

Microsoft has already made its Microsoft Music Club available (initially only to England, Germany and France, but people in other countries can bypass that simply by changing the location-preferences in Explorer!).

And, a month ago, Virgin Megastore announced its online-store on virginmegastore.com - this one is for all European countries.

Both Virgin and MS sell music through the same, British distribution-company OD2, and are limited to OD2s library of some 200 000 songs - but if Apple just wanted to get in, they could probably make a deal with OD2 as well, don't you think?

No, I think Apple is using this time to come up with something so much better, it will wipe the competition off the map!

... i hope!

[MOFS]

Originally posted by airbag
Perhaps, perhaps not... The Eurozone will still only include 12 countries ... and will remain so for some time as far as I know.

And: even the EU-members today don't necessarily share common laws when it comes to copyright etc.

I'm not sure if the inclusion of 10 more countries in the EU solves any of the problems...

I still don't understand why the EU nations don't harmonise their laws like the copyright laws - that would make it so much easier and cheaper for all involved! I can't believe there's national pride re copyright laws...

Anyway, how come it takes 12months for them to sort the laws out? why don't they just do it in dribs and drabs? You know, the UK first (due to no need for translation-no other reason, honest!), then say Germany, France etc. It must be all down to Steve's penchance for the spectacular!

[elmimmo]

Originally posted by MOFS
I still don't understand why the EU nations don't harmonise their laws like the copyright laws

I, Spanish, do agree with you, but not because I think this has anything to do with iTMS. Because, IMHO, this has nothing to do with laws, but with record companies's per-country policies. Remeber our very "dear" Apple has different pricing policies por their computers depending on the country.

However, the answer to your question is as easy as the one to why all the countried in the world (which includes the USA) do not harmonise their laws like [insert] laws. Do you think it would be easier? Do you think it would be appropiate?

[airbag]

Originally posted by MOFS
I still don't understand why the EU nations don't harmonise their laws like the copyright laws - that would make it so much easier and cheaper for all involved! I can't believe there's national pride re copyright laws...


I don't think it's that simple. We're talking about 42 different countries with completely different cultures, and different interests. Recording artists in Italy don't necessarily want the same thing as those in Sweden ... It's not about pride, it's about protecting one's interests. Quite natural IMO.

I think, and hope, Apple plans to release itms to ALL European countries in one go - not because it's spectacular, but because it may be the right strategy to win over the marked!

[tduality]

Originally posted by airbag
I don't think it's that simple. We're talking about 42 different countries with completely different cultures, and different interests. Recording artists in Italy don't necessarily want the same thing as those in Sweden ... It's not about pride, it's about protecting one's interests. Quite natural IMO.

I think, and hope, Apple plans to release itms to ALL European countries in one go - not because it's spectacular, but because it may be the right strategy to win over the marked!

As mentioned above the number of EU Nations is currently 15. And isn't the harmonisation of laws what's the EU is about? I don't know how far they got in respect to copyright laws, but recently there was news about an EU wide patent law. Not the same, but it bears some similarity.

[Vroem]

Now that we are talking about software laws in Europe, I give you this link about software patents in Europe (http://swpat.ffii.org/journal/news/index.en.html). Finally some good news come from here in Europe. ;)

[Eviga]

May 2004...this sounds nice !

I guess we can expect a keynote around that time !

The 4th Generation iPod release is set to "first quarter 2004".

I think it's realistic that Steve will do a "Music Keynote" with the european iTMS and the new iPod, of course with some new features for iTMS integration :)

what do you think ?

[DeusOmnis]

I dont understand something, why cant you access the iTMS network if you're from outside the US? How do they prevent that?

[airbag]

Originally posted by Eviga
I think it's realistic that Steve will do a "Music Keynote" with the european iTMS and the new iPod, of course with some new features for iTMS integration :)

what do you think ?



Sometime next summer I'll be sitting in a café, my latte in one hand, and my new iPod in the other hand, buying songs wirelessly from iTMS!!!

That would be niiiiice!

[Kamu-San]

I don't think that it's just the different copyright laws in the EU, but rather the different copyright enforcement agencies. Every country has it's own agency which collects money and redistributes this money to the artists and record companies.

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by DeusOmnis
I dont understand something, why cant you access the iTMS network if you're from outside the US? How do they prevent that?
Although anyone can browse the store, to set up an account for iTMS (and therefore so you can buy songs) you have to use a credit card with a US billing address. Unfortunately you can only do this if you live in the USA.

For non-Americans, there is a way around this if you know someone you can trust who lives in the US. Get them to sign up for a no fee credit card with an internet-paying facility, get them to keep the card safe for you, and you can enter the details. Or something like that. As long as you know you can trust that they won't use the card (which will be like spending your money), the iTMS will think you live in the US. There's nothing illegal about this either, you just have to have family, etc in the US.

(Edited for clarity)

[goodvoice]

What about Canada?!

Anyone knows when the iTMS is coming to Canada?

It can't be that hard. Our countries aren't that different.

[MrMacMan]

Lets hope they can get this to Europe Sooner!

And also the rest of the world too!

[sparky76]

I don't hear much from Apple about launch dates for iTMS Europe, but they do keep repeating that iTMS for Windows will be available this year. Nice to know where we European Mac users stand.

[Inunyan]

Well, at any rate, congraturations to lucky Eurolanders for having at least some rumors of iTMS. We in East Asia are totally left out in the cold without even a hint of it...

[John Lockwood]

Originally posted by airbag
It's really annoing: first, it took ages for the features in iPhoto to come to Europe (ordering prints, book), Sherlock is still of absolutely no value to us, and now: no itms!

Au contraire!

iPhoto Internet printing, and the hard back option are STILL NOT AVAILABLE IN EUROPE!!!

This is despite Kodak now offering Ofoto service in Europe (although I believe the hard back option is not from the same people).

By the way, in addition to the lack of European Sherlock content, the lack of iPhoto Internet printing, the lack of a European iTMS, you forgot to mention the lack of European Apple Retail stores.

Apple's International support sucks (I am not just referring to telephone support but Apple's whole relationship with International markets), not even a black hole sucks as much. Indeed I will go further still, not even WINDOWS sucks as much!

[That sucking, slurping noise you hear is Apple's European market share disappearing]

PS. If Microsoft and Virgin can manage to setup from scratch European music stores in a matter of weeks, why does it take Apple the best part of a year?

[Zanc]

Well, I won't hold my breath!

Sherlock localisation - Non for UK
iPhoto Album ordering - Non for UK
iTMS - could be a very long time.

[Freg3000]

Apple simply was not ready for this. They better get iTMS for Windows and Europe out the door as fast as their little Cupertino legs can carry them.

[Vonnie]

It seems strange to me that there are multiple companies in Europe offering a pay-per-download music service only months after the iTMS introduction in the US. (although lacking the universal rights for all songs)

Even if Apple only started negotiating with European partners since the US iTMS introduction, they should be able to get the same usage rights before the end of the year.

But then, they didn't localise Sherlock, offer printing in iPhoto, opened a european apple retail store,... This isn't about the diversity of the European market making it impossible to do business. This is about the pure incompetence of Apples European/international lawyers and sales team.

[etoiles]

This would be great... the current iTMS would certainly benefit from such a move, opening up the music library to more tunes from around the world.

[rvernout]

Just for the record: copyright law, as all intellectual property law, in the EU (including the 10 new members) is fully harmonized. Enforcement of the law is a different story indeed...

Actually, copyright law is the one most harmonized law in the world (i.e. US and EU copyright law is almost the same), thanks to the Berne Convention (http://www.wipo.org/treaties/ip/berne/).

[tutubibi]

Originally posted by goodvoice
What about Canada?!

Anyone knows when the iTMS is coming to Canada?

It can't be that hard. Our countries aren't that different.

I think that iTunes Canada launch will come before Europe. Hopefully end of year or early next year :confused:

[airbag]

hmmm...

No Sherlock...
No iPhoto...
No Apple Store...
Terrible service...

Can someone please remind me why I like Apple...!?! :confused:

No, seriously:
I find it hard to believe, if Apple spent almost two years developing iTMS USA , that they didn't foresee the current situation. We must have faith in the genious of Jobs & Co, and expect something very, very good by next summer!

Ohh, good! Faith restored for now!:D

(I wonder, do the other music stores in Europe offer local artists, or just international artists? If not, this may be what Apple wants to achieve before announcing..)

[Vonnie]

Originally posted by airbag

(I wonder, do the other music stores in Europe offer local artists, or just international artists? If not, this may be what Apple wants to achieve before announcing..)

If others don't offer local music, they have plenty of time to do so before the introduction of iTMS-EU. Those others get two times the publicity that way: one time when they start in the EU (big name artist promots the service), a second time when they add local music (local artists to promote their service).

[edStar]

Originally posted by Wardofsky
I'm still not cheering until it comes to Australia.
We do exist...

Right on!

Don't forget about us!

[sinclairZX81]

brand awareness of Apple and the iPod is extremely low in the UK.

for the vast majority computer= windows over there just like in the US, but in the US Apple has strong brand awareness and an image as 'cool'. the story of how Apple started in a garage is fairly well know, at least in geeky circles and Apple continues to receive favourable press from various pundits. press coverage of Apple in the UK is pratically non-existant. schools are forced to buy PCs.

its hard even buying a mac in the UK. PC World the UK's nearest equivalent to CompUSA has at best some old dusty models lurking at the back. no one in the store will know anything about them and will more than likely advise you to buy a Windows box instead.

until Apple builds brand awareness in the UK and other EU countries, I can't see the situation changing. perhaps launching ITMS in the EU will help.

look at this article on BBCi http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/desertislanddiscs_20032809.shtml (scroll to end). the writer doesn't even know how to write 'iPod' and doesn't brand it as Apple, presumably because s/he has never heard of this strange thing called a (sic) mp3 player.

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by sinclairZX81
brand awareness of Apple and the iPod is extremely low in the UK.

for the vast majority computer= windows over there just like in the US, but in the US Apple has strong brand awareness and an image as 'cool'. the story of how Apple started in a garage is fairly well know, at least in geeky circles and Apple continues to receive favourable press from various pundits. press coverage of Apple in the UK is pratically non-existant. schools are forced to buy PCs.

its hard even buying a mac in the UK. PC World the UK's nearest equivalent to CompUSA has at best some old dusty models lurking at the back. no one in the store will know anything about them and will more than likely advise you to buy a Windows box instead.

until Apple builds brand awareness in the UK and other EU countries, I can't see the situation changing. perhaps launching ITMS in the EU will help.

look at this article on BBCi http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/desertislanddiscs_20032809.shtml (scroll to end). the writer doesn't even know how to write 'iPod' and doesn't brand it as Apple, presumably because s/he has never heard of this strange thing called a (sic) mp3 player.

This is so true. Here in the UK we did get quite prominent PowerMac G5 adverts throughout September but there is nothing about anything else. My brother loves his new iPod but most of his friends have never heard of it before. And most people think that Macs are creaky old computers that are "not compatible."

C'mon Apple! Tell us about yourself in the UK!

Back on topic, I can't wait for iTMS Europe. I get the opportunity to browse the store and download previews but I can't buy! Hopefully they can get it sorted soon because Microsoft already has one (although no-one knows about it!)

[billyboy]

You´re right about lack of Apple promotion in the UK. The G5 ad on TV was a shocker ie rare, but I´ll be interested to see what happens with iTunes for Windows advertising.

There was a jazz musician on Radio Fivelive today and he said he left his sax at home and bought his Titanium Powerbook in instead. Very subtle product placement and probably just reinforced the cliche that Macs are for creative professionals ONLY? I was expecting him to mention iTunes or iTunes Music Store, but from his silence on that plug, it seems as though he´s not on itms.

It´s interesting how unimportant Macs are here. I was told by an administrator at my university that to open a utility to enable me to access my iDisk from a Windows terminal represented a security issue. Oh really, I wonder why!!! He tried to be helpful, not, and gave me the bumf for remote network access. I couldn´t access my account at University without Virtual PC. I could only dial in. Just pathetic compared to using iDisk. Its so different from what US uni students seem to have, I guess because there are more Mac users demanding compatability.

iTunes for Windows should knock down a few more barriers about Mac being only available to some closed cult - assumimg we get the big ad campaign here, of course.

[Algabatz]

Originally posted by rikers_mailbox

Is this one reason Apple is in no hurry for iTMS-Europe? I mean, think about it. Why should they RUSH to finish it when the users don't have to worry about "illegally" downloaded music? It's not worth their time and effort since it doesn't mean drastically increased revenues from iTMS.

just an observation. . .

-rik [/B]

The music situation in Europe is quite different, it's not just a question of copyright, there are tens of thousands of minor record companies and hundreds of large ones. And the contracts between the artists/record companies/distributors differ, not only from country to country, but also from company to company and artist to artist. There are cross-nation associations between the larger record companies, but not as heterogen as in the US. Apple would have to initiate hundreds of negociations in Europe in twenty languages while the same could be done with ten or fewer associations in the US.
I think it's a good sign that it takes some time though. If Apple had been satisfied with offering US music from the big record companies, we would have ITMS already. I think they are going for the whole shabang, all the local music, and that would also mean a great new (US) market for European artists that otherwise would not make it across the Atlantic. And vice versa. Us Europeans certainly will have access to great independent US music. What we are watching here, dear friends, is the greatest music revolution since Sun records let that truck driver guy in the studio.

He might be a pain to work for, but Mr. Jobs sure has an uncanny eye for the future.
Go buddy go!

[Grijs]

Yeah, it's a bummer that the Music Store hasn't reached our shores as of yet, but I had the good fortune to be in Miami last week where I surprised myself with a Gift-Certificate at the local AppleStore! It's a work-around but for the time being it works fine for me. (1st post ever!)

[DJY]

I also am hanging out for a iTMS here in Australia!
Oh yeah and those groovy looking Altec Lansing speakers for when I travel / and in my office that my 3G 40GB iPOD can sit in!

Anyone heard anymore on Australia apart from the generic rumours of "1st quarter in 2004"???

They will need to hurry up - as there are now other online legal music download sites available here in AUS...

[voodoofish]

Originally posted by leenoble
Translation: The record companies still want to screw the muppets in Britain for more money than the rest of the world...because they can.

lol that is so true (if you were ever wondering why so many British CDs have bonus tracks on it's to discourage record stores, supermarkets etc. from importing US CDs and selling them off cheap)

[voodoofish]

Originally posted by Grijs
Yeah, it's a bummer that the Music Store hasn't reached our shores as of yet, but I had the good fortune to be in Miami last week where I surprised myself with a Gift-Certificate at the local AppleStore! It's a work-around but for the time being it works fine for me. (1st post ever!)

yeah i was wondering that, if you buy a gift certificate, do they make u make an account to redeem it and not let you do so until you've entered a valid US credit card number and US postal address or can you just use it fine outside the US?

[voodoofish]

Originally posted by MOFS
the UK first (due to no need for translation-no other reason, honest!), then say Germany, France etc. It must be all down to Steve's penchance for the spectacular!

The UK is the largest single buying nation after the US so they should have brought it here long ago ;)

[voodoofish]

Originally posted by sinclairZX81
brand awareness of Apple and the iPod is extremely low in the UK.


I knew quite alot of ppl that wanted to get iPods even before the pre-christmas media coverage blitz and also most people I know know of Mac computers, they just don't use them because they don't think you can use anything that doesn't use windows (probably because kids use technology esp. portable music players more than the population in general). However, they are used in the media just as much as in the US, for example RI:SE (is that still on TV?) had a studio full of eMacs and in the French and Saunders christmas special they used a PowerBook. I think Apple Stores would help sales though because Macs are the kind of thing you really need to see and use close up to get you to buy them, and also a large part of thier selling point is how fastidiously designed they are - both in appearence and use - and the Apple Stores are like an epitany of that.

[DTG]

First I must concede I haven't read every post in this thread, but one thing has struck me.

iPod mini is due April 2004 worldwide.

So it would seem sensible to me that Apple does something similar to last year (with iTMS launch and 3G iPods) and have a "Music Event" reiterating the international release of the iPod mini and perhaps the opening of some international music stores?
Personally I can't wait til it comes to Europe.

Sure I download illegally distributed music but very rarely and on the most part it either gets deleted or bought on CD! Having all my music in a non-tangible format would be great. (Too many CDs)

Roll on April 2004!!

[CmdrLaForge]

Yep,

its time they bring it on !

Cheers