PDA

View Full Version : Switch to Apple aborted


hkriffraff
Oct 6, 2003, 04:00 AM
I was in need of a new laptop a while back and was on the verge of buying a steeply discounted Thinkpad on a back to school promotion when it suddenly occurred to me to consider getting a Powerbook instead. I have had my mind on switching to a Mac for some time, mainly to get my hands on Final Cut Pro but the cost of Apple hardware has always seemed excessive. I contacted my university’s Mac user group to ask if they knew of any educational discount and they put me in touch with a sales rep at a dealer who serves the university.

I asked the guy about the prices of the 17” Powerbook and the new 1.25 ghz 15” and he was like "oh! you're lucky you called me...we're coming out with a back to school promotion next week and offering big savings…keep an eye on the user group webpage". So I thanked him...but the next week there was no sign of any promotion. Well the following week, still no promotion. Another week, still no promotion. Now we're into October...a little late for "back to school." Meanwhile, I missed out on IBM’s Thinkpad deal and Apple’s own ipod deal, but at this point I was feeling psyched about switching, I got in touch with the guy and he assured me that the promotion would be launched any day. I mindlessly clicked “reload” on the Mac user group webpage for the better part of a month, waiting for more details.

So the other day, they finally launched the long overdue promotion but when I saw it, I was astonished to find that only modest discounts on iBooks and the combo drive 12” and 15” Powerbooks were featured. Needless to say, I was quite irked about being led to wait all this time to find that only the lowest-end laptops were offered (and I had specifically enquired only about the highest-end ones). I voiced my displeasure on the university’s user forum, and the salesman responded “I’m sorry, but the promotion had to be negotiated with Apple and I had no idea until the last minute which models would be included”. Well he certainly never mentioned that he had “no idea” when he encouraged me to wait and wait and wait. So I replied with some righteous remarks about sales ethics and how the long-awaited promotion was really quite weak and the next thing I knew, all these miscellaneous Mac users were jumping to this guy’s defense…saying that the forum was for supporting the Mac community and not for some so and so to criticize this guy who has lent so much support to the Mac community...how we should instead express our appreciation for his efforts in organizing the promotion, and for his past efforts in putting together presentations on campus. From the way they were talking, you’d think it was about Mother Teresa or Jane Goodall and not a sales person who’s
*job* is to organize promotions and presentations.

So I had to leave the forum with my tail between my legs…and when I look at the pbotos they have of their various user group meetings and the upbeat-looking people posing for photos with an iMac, I can’t believe I ever thought I could be one of them. I bought into the Apple platform, but I don’t care for this ridiculous “Apple can do no wrong” and “please no dissent” culture. Just look at this business with OS X upgrades…when will Panther ship? “Maybe soon, maybe next year” Will current buyers get discounted upgrades? “Maybe, maybe not” Can we expect a 2-button mouse? “No…maybe” Screw it! I don’t care for the whole shroud of mystery thing. I think I’ll buy an Acer Travelmate.

mmmdreg
Oct 6, 2003, 04:32 AM
Fair enough. It happens.

cc bcc
Oct 6, 2003, 05:07 AM
When will Windows Longhorn ship? Can you upgrade XP to Longhorn? How long willl your Acer last? Is MS trustworthy?

It goes for both sides. Buy what makes you happy, but Apple still has a long way to go that's true.

the future
Oct 6, 2003, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by hkriffraff
I bought into the Apple platform, but I don’t care for this ridiculous “Apple can do no wrong” and “please no dissent” culture. Just look at this business with OS X upgrades…when will Panther ship? “Maybe soon, maybe next year” Will current buyers get discounted upgrades? “Maybe, maybe not” Can we expect a 2-button mouse? “No…maybe” Screw it! I don’t care for the whole shroud of mystery thing. I think I’ll buy an Acer Travelmate.

I'm sorry you waited so long for a good deal that didn't materialize in the end, but I think your anger leads you to some statements that are quite unfounded.

When you roam (for example) the macrumors forums, you will not find a "Apple can do no wrong" and "please no dissent" attitude at all. Discussions of all things Apple where users take different sides are very common here. As it is a Mac-related site/forum, of course we usually like Apple products, but that doesn't mean we don't criticize if necessary. You may want to check the thread about the new bluetooth mouse and keyboard as a case in point - a lot of posters don't like them very much, to say the least.

Regarding the questions you ask - Apple is very clear about all of this.
When will Panther ship? Before the end of the year. No-one at Apple ever said it could also be in 2004, so your criticism here is unfounded.
Upgrade for current buyers? Usually those who buy a system *after* the next OS upgrade is announced get an upgrade option for a small fee. Pretty simple, pretty clear.
2-button mouse from Apple? Simple answer: No. (And no-one at Apple ever hinted at something like that, so there is exactly zero reason to feel confused).

Of course you are free to buy whatever you want, but please consider that you are indeed missing out on a quite different (and as we feel: better) user experience when you decide to keep using Windows.

Anyways, all the best to you.

mymemory
Oct 6, 2003, 06:45 AM
Man you need some psicologist or something. You are buying a computer, you are not becoming a member of a religious group.

If I need a computer by certain time I go a get it, was your choice to wait and wait, and wait with no dead line.

You are not getting a computer because some stupid people in a forum told you some things about other guy? does that have to do with the CD Rom of your computer? or with the processor speed?

Kid, go home, think about your values in life and come back in a year, this is the most lame story of lack of integrity I have seen around here.

So, in your world if ARN kick me oout of Macrumors that is a reason for me to be upset and sell my macs???

I'm glad you are a college, at list you are gonna get an education.

radhak
Oct 6, 2003, 08:51 AM
Good point by mymemory - the person who did not give you the best of advice was not Apple (the company), not even a sales-person at an Apple Store, yet you want to deprive yourself of a well-thought-of alternate-style-of-computing experience?

That's like deciding you want to go watch a movie, mentioning that to a neighbour who tells you that you could buy tickets at a discount if you waited a couple of days, and when you finally realize that the promised discount is only for senior citizens (or something) and not for you, you get pissed at your neighbour and decide that you shall not go to that movie at all!
This could only make some sense if the very reason you thought of switching was when you heard of the discount from that evil rep ;)

As for the other point, there are two issues here :
(a) the fact that the defense of the sales rep is so strong among the rest of your student community says that others have found him good for them; i cannot imagine anybody (least of all students on an online forum) rising to defend somebody just for the heck of it. So maybe he might still prove to be helpful to you if you go ahead with a Mac

(b) Apple devotees : as a recent switcher, and a not-so-old member here (MR), i agree that i too have seen a number of those, some rabid, some good-natured, but all with a reason - they love their machine. And i am actually happy about them. Think about it, how come we don't see such rabid support for Microsoft (ok, there are some, but percentage-wise, they are sorely lacking)? Because all MS-ites are the epitome of level-headed-ness and mature-discussion? Naaah!! It just does not spring that easily there.
I myself have been very comfortable with wintel all these years, and neither dread it nor hate it, and most probably am never going to completely let go of it. Also, today, with just some days of owning my first Mac i am far from very comfortable using it. But i would not have missed this experience, nor the newly-found company (here) of some very vocal Mac-ites, over some problem i had during the purchase (which i have noted in another string).

I think you shall still enjoy a Mac, after all this. Good luck.

lmalave
Oct 6, 2003, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by cc bcc
When will Windows Longhorn ship? Can you upgrade XP to Longhorn? How long willl your Acer last? Is MS trustworthy?

It goes for both sides. Buy what makes you happy, but Apple still has a long way to go that's true.

Good point! I'm actually quite impressed with the pace at which Apple is improving OS X. If you look at the speed with which they went to 10.0, 10.1, 10.2, and now 10.3, it's quite a good pace. The great thing is OS X is built on a rock-solid Unix foundation, so all Apple really has to work on are interface and ease-of-use enhancements. This is Apple's big advantage, I think. Apple can more nimbly extend OS X to support new technologies. Microsoft is too bogged down with millions of lines of crap legacy code.

aphexist
Oct 6, 2003, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by mymemory
I'm glad you are a college, at list you are gonna get an education.

Word. Macs are for the educated man...

Originally posted by lmalave
Good point! I'm actually quite impressed with the pace at which Apple is improving OS X. If you look at the speed with which they went to 10.0, 10.1, 10.2, and now 10.3, it's quite a good pace. The great thing is OS X is built on a rock-solid Unix foundation, so all Apple really has to work on are interface and ease-of-use enhancements.

Totally, dude. We get a point release once a year! That's fast right? Anyway, there can't possibly be any enhancements to the Unix kernel. I mean, it's been around since, like, the 70's and it's totally solid. Great...

beefcake
Oct 6, 2003, 09:46 AM
I feel bad for you man. That promotions guy led you on and you got screwed over in the end. Sadly, it happens, but its only money, which will always come and go.

dcb
Oct 6, 2003, 09:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mymemory
I'm glad you are a college, at list you are gonna get an education.

APHEXIST SAID
Word. Macs are for the educated man...

That is too funny...pretty ironic too.

Abraxsis
Oct 6, 2003, 11:45 AM
Well I just thought Id chime in on this thread seeing as I think I can relate to both sides.

I am a recent switcher, as a matter of fact I just recieved my 12" Powerbook last Thursday after nearly a month of delays. I almost cancelled the order because of the delay, I thought it was unprofessional and unethical to keep an order going for nearly a month. But when I called they were very cordial and they assured me that my computer would not be delayed again. And it wasn't and I recieved it. And I love it. I dont think you would be dissappointed.

Comments on Longhorn, Windows, etc. should be completely and utterly IGNORED. Every OS on this planet has its good points and bad points. Just as an example ...

Windows is the most widely used gaming platform. Good Point.
Windows is notorious for being virii ladened. Bad Point.

Mac OS X is UNIX based. Good Point.
Mac OS X does not support driver roll back. Bad Point.

There is no OS thatI have used to date that doesnt have some flaws, its just the nature of the beast.

PS No comments on the "driver" word. I understand that UNIX doesnt use drivers in the sense of wintel drivers so back off. :)

Next, I want to comment on the "Hardcore Mac" person. A recent poster said that it wasn't like you were joining a religious organization or anything. But, in fact, with some people it is in fact just that. I have met "Macheads" who would take a bullet for Steve Jobs, its rediculous. I am a bachelor's degree Psychologist working on a Ph.D. and I have considered seriously doing a paper on the cult status of Apple computer as well as other . From a Psychological veiw point some users do in fact worship Apple and Mr. Jobs. And they veiw Apple reps as somewhat of a priest of the Holy One. While by no means am I saying that this is a blanket consensus but it is something to look deeper into. Dont get me wrong, somepeople worship other people, like Bill Gates, or George W., or even psychos such as bin Laden so Im not targetting Apple owners. I just think its alittle presumptious when people defend Steve Jobs whom they have never met, and know nothing about outside what the media tells them. Yes, I admire Steve Jobs, I think he is a man of vision. But I also think for the better part of his life he totally had his priorities out of whack. Blah Blah Blah ...

Basically what Im saying is dont let a bunch of Mac zealots cloud your resolve (as much as I hate that word seeing ole George W. uses it for dang near everything). Buy a Mac if you want one, go to your local on-campus computer store and buy it. I can promise you wont be dissappointed.

Counterfit
Oct 6, 2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Abraxsis
Comments on Longhorn, Windows, etc. should be completely and utterly IGNORED. Every OS on this planet has its good points and bad points. Just as an example ...

Windows is the most widely used gaming platform. Good Point.
Windows is notorious for being virii ladened. Bad Point. I fail to see how that's a bad point, both of them are valid points. There are thousands of virii that affect Windows, while under 500 for OS X.

Mac OS X is UNIX based. Good Point.
Mac OS X does not support driver roll back. Bad Point.

There is no OS thatI have used to date that doesnt have some flaws, its just the nature of the beast. Well, since you said yourself that the UNIX part of OS X doesn't use drivers, the second point there is moot, and should be pointed out as such when seen.

bousozoku
Oct 6, 2003, 01:51 PM
hkriffraff:

I'm on your side. This stuff about Apple being so righteous is rubbish. They make as many mistakes as any other company. They are nearly as uncompetitive as other companies. (Remember how Claris came about?) I have my share of complaints about them despite being a loyal Mac user since 1993.

As far as the salesperson goes, he should know better, and so should you. I may be more cynical than most but I wait until I've gotten the deal to believe it.

Apple has better technology overall and fits the user better, in most cases. There are some gaping holes and they're being filled. It should be fairly obvious that Palladium is a good reason to steer clear of future Windows development, and possibly, x86 development in general. I plan to stay as reasonably free to use my computer as possible and my chances are better with Apple than the competition.

rueyeet
Oct 6, 2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by hkriffraff
…and when I look at the photos they have of their various user group meetings and the upbeat-looking people posing for photos with an iMac, I can’t believe I ever thought I could be one of them. I bought into the Apple platform, but I don’t care for this ridiculous “Apple can do no wrong” and “please no dissent” culture.

"One of them?" Sounds like you bought into the Apple scene at your campus, more than the Mac platform, and when the scene betrayed you, you gave up on the platform.

People are crappy sometimes; that salesman sold you short and the campus Mac community shouldn't've backed up his use of deceptive tactics. But a Mac's still a Mac, and FCP 4 is still FCP 4. It still runs the same no matter how other Mac users behave. Shady sales reps and sycophantic user groups aside, the PowerBook still might have been a great computer for you. Shame to have let them dictate your computing choice.

As for the "shroud of mystery" thing....that's only if you follow the rumor sites. Apple only issues a press release when they have something to say; the rest of the confusion comes from the idle speculation of others, for which Apple can't be fairly blamed.

plutnicki
Oct 6, 2003, 02:34 PM
Don't get scared off by the Mac "culture". Just because you own a Mac, doesn't mean you have to go to their "clubs", just like owning a Harley doesn't mean you have to join the Hell's Angels.

Salesdroids suck. Period. Looks like you ran into one. I run into them all the time. Sounds like this guy is generally much loved at your school. Could be he just screwed up (it happens, people do make mistakes, even GOOD people). Could be he really didn't know what would be up for sale, but knew some Powerbooks would be and hoped he'd save you money.

Thus far, I've found that general Mac culture is pretty good. It's small enough that you can get decent personalized help, and when Apple screws up (i.e. recent 10.2.8 debacle), you can find out about it and get help quickly.

I think you should sit down with the Powerbook, worry less about the saledroid and realize that the only person you are penalizing by buying a Windows system is yourself...

Good luck!

Schiffi
Oct 6, 2003, 04:16 PM
I need to get a MUG started at my college. Everytime I bring it up people on Rendezvous always say "Yeah, that'd be cool" followed by "But what'd we do?"

So, what do MUGs do, persay?

Schiffi
Oct 6, 2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Counterfit
I fail to see how that's a bad point, both of them are valid points. There are thousands of virii that affect Windows, while under 500 for OS X.

Make that 0 for OSX.

Counterfit
Oct 6, 2003, 04:41 PM
There are some, about 300 I heard. But they hardly spread and aren't really worth the trouble. And besides, 0 is less than 500 :P

KCK
Oct 6, 2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by Counterfit
There are some, about 300 I heard. But they hardly spread and aren't really worth the trouble. And besides, 0 is less than 500 :P

From what I have read there have been a total of about 500 for the Mac total in it's history. Only 26 of these didn't involve some kind of Microsoft software. None of these have involved OSX

coolsoldier
Oct 6, 2003, 05:15 PM
Mac communities can get out of hand sometimes -- I tend to steer clear of MUGs and even most of the mac forums out there (except MR of course :) ) It seems like the people on this forum are a little more level-headed than most (usually).

As for the issue, I'd have to agree that a bad experience with a salesperson is no reason to abandon a product entirely -- Apple's products are no worse for that one guy's shady sales tactics, though, and as for the price complaint (forgive me if I'm stating the obvious), Apple's online stores also offer student discounts year-round.

iJon
Oct 6, 2003, 06:57 PM
to me it sounds like your campus salesman is an idiot, and that wouldn't surprise me at all. Anyways, enjoy your Acer, haha.

iJon

3-22
Oct 6, 2003, 07:09 PM
Acer, what?! Good luck...

My old work bought a bunch of Acer's, it was pretty funny. They all broke within months. Cheap CIO...

hkriffraff
Oct 6, 2003, 09:32 PM
Sorry, I was a bit worked up before. I’m not loaded and a high-end Powerbook + FCP is out of my range without a significant discount. This is what I was led to expect over the course of a month and it led me to pass on a very substantial thinkpad discount through my school. I’m just taken aback that the salesman would start claiming he had no idea and no control over the promotion instead of just admitting “I shouldn’t have encouraged you to wait, but I can’t/won’t do anything about it” and that most of these MUG people would deride me for voicing a grievance on their forum (after all it was the MUG that led me to have dealings with him in the first place).

Some other comments he made also irritated me, like “I poured my heart out over this promotion” and “I spent a lot of time after work trying to get this promotion together” (as if it’s not a part of his work-day to sell to us). Many regional vendors offered excellent back to school promotions, yet this guy can show up a month late with modest offers on bottom of the line models and people will fawn over his efforts like he’s been doing volunteer work. I have never seen anything like this before and from what I read, this type of unquestioning support seems pervasive in Mac culture and to some extent fostered by Apple itself.

With the panther upgrade for example, we know that it’s due “later this year” so that could be from 0-3 months. Will I get any discount if I buy a new machine now? I don’t believe that Apple is obligated to offer anything, but I would like to know what their intent is so that I can make an informed decision. Why does it have to be a big secret? Things like this really bug me and cause me to wonder if it’s wise to go with an all-under-one-roof company like Apple.
:confused:

tazo
Oct 6, 2003, 09:38 PM
Man I am so annoyed with this influx of pseudo-intellectual sob stories on this site. Can't these people understand that this is not Apple.com, and that no one here honestly goes to bed at night giving a damn about macxxxx12243e243 is not going to switch to the mac platform.

Maybe this makes me heartless, maybe it doesnt. But one thing I know is that atleast I will not waste another minute on a sob story from a person that is most likely a troll in the first place.

And for the love of god, there is no such thing as the eradication of dissention on this website. Go find another online bridge to hide under, bud.

-tazo

Sublime
Oct 6, 2003, 09:50 PM
Owned.

MacBoyX
Oct 7, 2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by hkriffraff
Sorry, I was a bit worked up before. I’m not loaded and a high-end Powerbook + FCP is out of my range without a significant discount. This is what I was led to expect over the course of a month and it led me to pass on a very substantial thinkpad discount through my school. I’m just taken aback that the salesman would start claiming he had no idea and no control over the promotion instead of just admitting “I shouldn’t have encouraged you to wait, but I can’t/won’t do anything about it” and that most of these MUG people would deride me for voicing a grievance on their forum (after all it was the MUG that led me to have dealings with him in the first place).

Some other comments he made also irritated me, like “I poured my heart out over this promotion” and “I spent a lot of time after work trying to get this promotion together” (as if it’s not a part of his work-day to sell to us). Many regional vendors offered excellent back to school promotions, yet this guy can show up a month late with modest offers on bottom of the line models and people will fawn over his efforts like he’s been doing volunteer work. I have never seen anything like this before and from what I read, this type of unquestioning support seems pervasive in Mac culture and to some extent fostered by Apple itself.

With the panther upgrade for example, we know that it’s due “later this year” so that could be from 0-3 months. Will I get any discount if I buy a new machine now? I don’t believe that Apple is obligated to offer anything, but I would like to know what their intent is so that I can make an informed decision. Why does it have to be a big secret? Things like this really bug me and cause me to wonder if it’s wise to go with an all-under-one-roof company like Apple.
:confused:

The salesman was wrong. He just wanted to keep you from buying a PC.

Don't let that cloud your judgement of Mac Users or deter you from being a Mac user. Your points are valid but not all true. Apple's Panther by the end of the year is a lot better than Microsoft's constant push back of Longhorn, last I heard it's 2005? That's 3 years for an update to XP that's a long time. As far as Apple not giving you an upgrade to Panther for free because you bought a Mac before it was released, Micorsoft does the same darn thing. My last PC was bought abt 15 days before XP came out and I did not get an upgrade. If you bought a Ford in October and 2 weeks later an upgraded model came out with a newer engine, Ford's not going to replace it. That's the way of the world.

Alot of us cannot afford 17" PB's. It's not suprising that the College only offered discounts on iBooks etc or as you put it (low end machines). These are not "low end machines" they are the machines targeted at EDUCATIONAL and home consumers.

As far as our defense of Apple...my feeling is this. Apple makes mistakes. Everyone does. Apple has been in my opinion much more forthcoming about admitting them and fixing them than Microsoft ever is. Also, my computing expereince with my Macs are such that a "deal" would not deter me.

Using a Mac to me is about being differnet and having faith in a company, you have to be a Mac user becaue your whole computing experience is dependent on that company being around for ever, so we fight for them. We defend them. We are over zealous in trying to get you to try it because we know you will like it more than your WinTel machines. The trade off is a very simple, efficient, stable OS. Also a feeling that you are a "part" of something. The mystery makes it fun! It builds the suspense. It makes us crazy..it's a part of the experience.

Bottom line, get a Mac...enjoy the experience of your computer and if you want to...the people.

macboyX

iJon
Oct 7, 2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by tazo
Man I am so annoyed with this influx of pseudo-intellectual sob stories on this site. Can't these people understand that this is not Apple.com, and that no one here honestly goes to bed at night giving a damn about macxxxx12243e243 is not going to switch to the mac platform.

Maybe this makes me heartless, maybe it doesnt. But one thing I know is that atleast I will not waste another minute on a sob story from a person that is most likely a troll in the first place.

And for the love of god, there is no such thing as the eradication of dissention on this website. Go find another online bridge to hide under, bud.

-tazo
agreed, and its even more funny when we bash people like this, and they go "oh this what mac users are like, i dont want to be associated with people like you." its like what the hell, we arent a church, we are people that like the same computer and we usually get along.

iJon

tristan
Oct 8, 2003, 03:38 AM
The sales rep sucked. We're sorry that turned you off to the company.

Try to look beyond that. The PB17" is a great computer, and it would be foolish to deprive yourself of one just because one sales rep screwed up.

The Acer's probably a decent computer, but don't miss your chance to move up to something really special. If this is a serious purchase that you'll use for school, several hours a day for the next few years, you really should buy something you'll be happy with.

tazo
Oct 8, 2003, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by iJon
agreed, and its even more funny when we bash people like this, and they go "oh this what mac users are like, i dont want to be associated with people like you." its like what the hell, we arent a church, we are people that like the same computer and we usually get along.

iJon

Exactly! I forgot to put that part in my original statement about how he would probably come back and call us all mac-using terrorists...

Notice how he hasnt come back? Troll...