callling all californians [Archive]

jefhatfield

Oct 6, 2003, 01:53 PM

vote tomorrow!

after a very hard and agonizing storm in my brain, i decided to vote no on the recall and leave the ballot blank for a candidate

but i was very close to voting no and putting arnold in the slot

for those non californians here, there are three way to vote

no on recall and leaving ballot for candidate blank
no on recall but voting for a candidate just in case yes on recall passes
...and finally yes on recall and casting ballot of a candidate

and there are many candidates on the ballot coming from the left, right, and center of the political spectrum

and yes, there are far right wingers and far left wingers on the ballot, too so it's kind of like a fruit and nut salad and the eventual winner of the election can do so with just 15 percent of the vote...i guess this is the only chance that a non career politician like arnold has a chance at this election and it will be interesting to see how a republican like arnold who votes like the democrats in california will do...with the gop of the state being far right and not too cozy with hollywood

perhaps conan the republican can find common ground with both sides in this polarized state, which blames each other for the recession, and actually make a noticeable difference in the short time this governor's term has left in it

though i am not voting for arnold, if he wins, i will give him the benefit of the doubt, and based on his moderate and solid positions, i will back him all the way...he may be an actor, but he is a producer and a businessman so he has some organizational skills and hopefully he can translate those well honed skills in public administration

meta-ghost

Oct 6, 2003, 02:13 PM

tomorrow will be the most depressing election i have ever voted in. there are no options for me and i am simply left with voting no on the recall. for a moment, early on, when warren buffet made his comments about how proposition 13 needed to be reviewed (the single greatest bane ever to befall the state i was born and raised in) i thought for a moment that maybe an arnold victory would be something like nixon going to china. but they shut w.b. up pretty quickly.
as things stand today, arnold is unacceptable. he doesn't have the character, leadership and doesn't know what it means to be a man.

Dont Hurt Me

Oct 6, 2003, 02:23 PM

I feel for your state but also feel the special interest and the democrats in california have screwed up your state big time! I think california needs some serious change and the sooner the better but to keep your status quo doesnt seem to wise considering how numbers where manipulated by Davis before his last election.anyways the indians love him & busty! anyways hope the best for what use to be the great state of california.

jefhatfield

Oct 6, 2003, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by meta-ghost
tomorrow will be the most depressing election i have ever voted in. there are no options for me and i am simply left with voting no on the recall. for a moment, early on, when warren buffet made his comments about how proposition 13 needed to be reviewed (the single greatest bane ever to befall the state i was born and raised in) i thought for a moment that maybe an arnold victory would be something like nixon going to china. but they shut w.b. up pretty quickly.
as things stand today, arnold is unacceptable. he doesn't have the character, leadership and doesn't know what it means to be a man.

arnold is a womanizer, but so was clinton and he did a good job

guiliani was a womanizer, but he proved to be an able leader, too in the sad days of 9-11

i don't look at the reports about arnold sleeping around...i already knew it...he made a movie in my town and was caught in bed with a female co star...we all said, "so, how is he different than many in hollywood"

geez, what if colin farrel ran for governor:p

with my religious beliefs, i would have to leave the ballot blank every election, but i know i am not voting in the arch bishop or head rabbi of my denomination, i am voting for a secular president of a multi cultural, multi religious country which has a lot of agnostics and atheists, too...and they all have the right to vote, too btw ;)

jefhatfield

Oct 6, 2003, 02:45 PM

and the character issue

where does arnold not have the character?

as a husband...then maybe not

but as a businessman...he has succeeded there at least and a lot of people see that as his strong point in his character makeup...i think very few want to vote for him just because they like his movies...he also produces many of them and that takes administrative skills which are crucial for the job he is trying to win tomorrow

btw, that said, i am still no on the recall and i have no candidates for governor i want

pdham

Oct 6, 2003, 02:53 PM

I dont pitty your situation out in California. I was just wondering, If the recall doesnt go through, do you think Arnold will stick around as a candidate until the next election. It seems that he would seeing as he has alrady invested the money to start his campaign. And, a slightly ignoratn question by me. If the recall doesnt go through, when is the next scheduled election year?

joeyjojoe

Oct 6, 2003, 03:25 PM

i don't have a problem with arnold partaking in orgies and the like. i DO have a problem with him being a complete retard, and using his hollywood/kennedy connections to get into office.

seriously, he like wolfgang puck with muscles ... should he really be in office?

meta-ghost

Oct 6, 2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by jefhatfield
arnold is a womanizer, but so was clinton and he did a good job

sorry man, but womanizer is not the term for a man who grabs at woman's private parts. nor does it have anything to do with sleeping around. the analogy to clinton is not very good either. he may have slept around (ok by your definition) but i don't remember stories of grabbing breasts and behinds without consent.

vniow

Oct 6, 2003, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by jefhatfield
no on recall but voting for a candidate just in case yes on recall passes

That's probably what I'm going to do, while I'm no fan of Davis I think a recall is asking too much of the state at this time with all the other crap that's going on here, I'm no state-reconstructing-expert but Arnold and Bustumante both seem to fit into what I see is good social progress for the state but then there's Arnold and the women so yeah....

IJ Reilly

Oct 6, 2003, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by meta-ghost
sorry man, but womanizer is not the term for a man who grabs at woman's private parts. nor does it have anything to do with sleeping around. the analogy to clinton is not very good either. he may have slept around (ok by your definition) but i don't remember stories of grabbing breasts and behinds without consent.

I agree. Schwartzenegger's MO isn't sex, it's control. If the man was just "loose" I could probably dismiss it as an irrelevant aspect of his personal life -- but his behavior pattern appears to be belittling other people for his own amusement and ego gratification. This is a very unappealing personality trait in any person, and especially for a political leader.

I'm voting "no" on the recall, and may leave the bottom half of the ballot blank.

Rower_CPU

Oct 6, 2003, 05:25 PM

I'm pretty much everyone else: No recall, no candidate.

Dont Hurt Me

Oct 6, 2003, 05:59 PM

sorry but i cant help myself as an outsider - are all the no's i am hearing mean you are satisfied with whats going on with the govt in your state? is the mess worst,are things improving??do you approve of davis?? just wondering??

peterjhill

Oct 6, 2003, 06:05 PM

There is a difference between what Clinton and Guilliani did, when compared to the allegations against Arnold.
Arnold is said to have forced himself upon the women. Maybe not to the point of rape, but nearly as bad. Monica and Gulliani's mistress seem to be willing partners.

I don't think Arnold today would think of acting as he may have in the past. I am sure that if he did do it, he has probably blocked it from his memory as best as possible and is ashamed of his actions.

I don't think Davis is a great guy either. He seems to know how to be a politician, if not a leader. I think that if Davis is recalled, it would set a very bad precedent in todays political climate.

Just say "NO"

Originally posted by jefhatfield
arnold is a womanizer, but so was clinton and he did a good job

guiliani was a womanizer, but he proved to be an able leader, too in the sad days of 9-11

i don't look at the reports about arnold sleeping around...i already knew it...he made a movie in my town and was caught in bed with a female co star...we all said, "so, how is he different than many in hollywood"

geez, what if colin farrel ran for governor:p

with my religious beliefs, i would have to leave the ballot blank every election, but i know i am not voting in the arch bishop or head rabbi of my denomination, i am voting for a secular president of a multi cultural, multi religious country which has a lot of agnostics and atheists, too...and they all have the right to vote, too btw ;)

XnavxeMiyyep

Oct 6, 2003, 06:07 PM

Dont Hurt Me

Oct 6, 2003, 06:15 PM

we should be able to do better then both, but i can say this about Arnold he has been a success at whatever he tackles. im not a republican or democrat but that last ones i want in power are the ones being ran by special interest. just a outside observation. special interest is a big big problem here in the U.S. and they influence these darn politicians.

IJ Reilly

Oct 6, 2003, 06:21 PM

Speaking as a Californian, voting against the recall is by no means an endorsement of Davis, it is a no vote on the recall. I did not vote for Davis last year and would never vote for him for any office. But just because I personally don't like the man doesn't mean he's fair game for a recall. In politics, you don't get mulligans, you have to play them where they lay.

Dont Hurt Me

Oct 6, 2003, 06:34 PM

then what are you all doing about the recall law???

KCK

Oct 6, 2003, 06:57 PM

KCK

Oct 6, 2003, 07:00 PM

I'm voting yes on the recall. Davis lied about the size of the budget problem while running for re-election. I think the size of the lie is justification for recalling Davis. Also Davis gave out large wage increases to various state workers in return for the union's support of his re-election. These increases came at a time he knew the state was in financial trouble. Again grounds enough for me to support a recall.

vniow

Oct 6, 2003, 08:06 PM

Bloody hell, I'm not sure if I'll be able to vote tomorrow, I'll be gone all day, I have classes in the moring and an interview in the afternoon, all about 2 hours away from where I have to vote at and I'm not coming home until like 10:00p.m. or so, two hours after it ends so damn.

Dont Hurt Me

Oct 6, 2003, 08:14 PM

absentee?

Sayhey

Oct 6, 2003, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by vniow
Bloody hell, I'm not sure if I'll be able to vote tomorrow, I'll be gone all day, I have classes in the moring and an interview in the afternoon, all about 2 hours away from where I have to vote at and I'm not coming home until like 10:00p.m. or so, two hours after it ends so damn.

I hope you can make it - Arnold is very bad news and every vote will count. It looks like it will be very close. Anybody thinking of voting Green, please take that into account.

3rdpath

Oct 7, 2003, 12:59 AM

i'm voting no tomorrow also.

what a complete circus this has become.

mclintock(sp?) was the only candidate i thought was honest and didn't pander...too bad i don't agree with any of his positions. i certainly respect him though.

i despise arnold and hope he doesn't win...what an ego-monkey. of course, if he does win he just might be sorry...once the photo-ops end and the work starts he might wish he was back playing grab-ass on the movie sets.

be careful what you wish for...

manzanita

Oct 7, 2003, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
sorry but i cant help myself as an outsider - are all the no's i am hearing mean you are satisfied with whats going on with the govt in your state? is the mess worst,are things improving??do you approve of davis?? just wondering??

In general, nobody seems to like Davis on a personal level; he's not exactly charismatic. But, in my opinion, he's not a bad politician and he has not been bad for this state. Yes, the deficit is bad, but that's because the economy of the whole country is bad - not much California can do if the tech sector busts and then the rest of the U.S. economy slows down too.

IMO, what was bad for this state was Pete Wilson and all the energy deregulation, which got us into the huge and infamous energy crises, which Davis was left to deal with. We all were getting screwed by the energy companies -they've admitted it - and there wasn't much anybody could have done about it - it certainly wasn't Davis' fault.

Now, Ahnold has a bunch of advisors that come from Pete Wilson's staff, so I'm more worried about him being in bed with Pete Wilson's cronies, than about his being in bed with anyone else (consenting or not).

So, I normally don't like to toe the party line, but I'm going to vote NO on the recall and vote for Bustamante as a backup, because that's the most conservative option.

Let's hope we all survive tomorrow...

mactastic

Oct 7, 2003, 09:43 AM

Believe you me, I'm not voting no on the recall portion because of any great love of Davis. I just happen to think that the recall process needs to be used in situations where a polititian has committed an actual crime, not just become unpopular. If you punish polititians for making unpopular decisions, they will respond, like Pavlov's dogs, by making the easy decisions, and either punting on the tough ones, or taking the easy route at the expense of what is best for the people.

As stated earlier, Davis pretty much disgusts me, particularly his close relationship with the Prison Guards Union. However, the hipocrasy has come thick and fast from both sides here, and while Davis may have "lied" about the budget, thats no worse than the "fuzzy math" Dubya has used on the federal budget IMHO, and certainly does not rise to the level of a crime.

Californians really have themselves to blame here, we voted Grey in, we are the ones who pass ballot initiatives that mandate lower taxes, and at the same time mandate higher spending levels, leaving the elected officials to sort out the messy details.

$30,000,000 on a special election. What a waste.

Sayhey

Oct 7, 2003, 10:32 AM

Just got back from voting. It's very early, but the turnout was light this morning in my precinct. Get out a vote, folks! I'm hoping to see this recall and Prop. 54 go down. I'll check back in as the returns come in.

mactastic

Oct 7, 2003, 11:31 AM

Arrgh.. I have to drive 30 min. back to my polling place, 'cuz I'm an idiot and forgot to get myself an absentee ballot before I up and moved over the weekend. And I can't even do that until after 3, now that I've taken ANOTHER day off work/school to sit and wait for 4 hours for the appliance delivery folks to bring me my new dishwasher. I'll be out there voting as soon as they get it here though.

God I hate moving. :rolleyes:

Rower_CPU

Oct 7, 2003, 01:44 PM

I voted and I've got the sticker to prove it.

Apparently absentee ballots are near record numbers. I think there's gonna be a decent turnout.

KCK

Oct 7, 2003, 02:20 PM

Well I went out and voted. There was a mimi rush as I got to the poll and ever voting machine was busy. Just after I left the polling place had cleared out ( but I saw a couple of people walking towards the poll as I drove away).

By all reports the turnout is suppose to be huge with a record or near record turnout.

This is an interesting contrast to the election in 2002 when only 30% of the registered voters bothered to go to the polls. I will find it interesting if Arnold gets elected with a greater number of votes than Davis received in 2002.

3rdpath

Oct 7, 2003, 03:25 PM

me and the mrs voted this morning...no lines.

easy peazy lemon squeezy.

Durandal7

Oct 7, 2003, 07:53 PM

I just heard a CBS News estimate that there is a %69 turnout. Quite amazing in my opinion, I rarely hear of any election in the nation getting much over %50 turnout.

IJ Reilly

Oct 7, 2003, 11:33 PM

We voted just after 7:00 PM. Biggest turnout I've ever seen at my regular polling place -- an actual line, partly due to the number of people voting, and partly due to the complexity of the ballot. (We still use punch cards in our county.)

I made a special point to thank our poll workers. They looked pretty exhausted.

jefhatfield

Oct 7, 2003, 11:50 PM

i voted no but so did my county

the richer, more educated, and more urban crowd went with davis

the poorer, less educated, and more rural crowd went with arnold

these demographics were pretty much expected for this election but the one stunner was the hispanic vote which was evenly split for the recall, not a 2 to 1 margin against as expected...and that was the deciding factor in making the recall work

davis was not liked by the white population or the hispanic population

IJ Reilly

Oct 8, 2003, 12:34 AM

It's a mistake to think of the Hispanic vote in California as being anything approaching monolithic. Still I'm surprised to find so little support for Bustamante, who could after all have been the state's first modern Hispanic governor.

vniow

Oct 8, 2003, 01:03 AM

Well, I voted, no on the recall but I guess it didn't go through, damn.

Now I have to live with the results as does the rest of my state...

jefhatfield

Oct 8, 2003, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
It's a mistake to think of the Hispanic vote in California as being anything approaching monolithic. Still I'm surprised to find so little support for Bustamante, who could after all have been the state's first modern Hispanic governor.

depending on how you classify hispanic, some only consider mexican americans hispanic, they as in all hispanics in total, are close to half the vote in the state according to cnn and if the hispanic voters went 2 to 1 against the recall, davis would be a winner, and overwhelmingly so...the hispanic vote was 50-50

by 2099, there will be more california citizens, legally, of mexican american descent and in some of our lifetimes, some say by 2050, hispanics in its broadest definition (including those that are half hispanic and half white or another race) will be tha majority of people in the state, legal and illegal

if the female vote had gone against arnold, he might have lost also

i am a democrat, but i have to admit arnold decimated his competition, even with another major gop candidate on the ballot...and any speculation that he would have not been able to withstand a normal gop primary is bulldung

i hate to admit it, but arnold has this amazing charisma and mirrors the political saavy of his adopted family, the kennedys...one reporter called it, "the return of camelot"...i voted no on recall but now i will do what is best for my state and support the man...he has done no bad politically yet like davis so we should give arnold a chance:)

IJ Reilly

Oct 8, 2003, 10:52 AM

Sure. Look, as much as I'm disappointed in the electorate, as a Californian, I hope Schwartzenegger succeeds where the last four California governors have failed. But the sad reality is, this state has become virtually ungovernable, and Schwartzenegger's total lack of experience isn't an auspicious place to start bringing order to this mess. Star power only goes so far.

As for Hispanics in California, I live in a city which is roughly 2/3 Latino, by the more generous definition of Latino. From the local social and political structure, I've learned that second and third generation "cultural Latinos" have little in common with the migrant farm workers from Mexico. Same as it ever was.