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Cleverboy
Dec 30, 2007, 03:08 PM
Other than DVR (already talked to death), what ultimate feature would you like Apple TV to have. I basically ask this, because I honestly have one that would completely change things. YouTube was nice. RSS feeds and web browsing would be pretty cool too no doubt.

Here's my pitch. SCREEN MIRRORING. Basically in iChat, we see Apple supporting screen mirroring for other iChat watchers. While its not exactly super-ideal, I'd love to be able to choose a monitor on my computer to "SEND TO APPLE TV" (I have multiple-monitors). It would make Apple TV an EXCELLENT presentation tool, and make ANY computer/web content instantly available on the television.

I mean, I'm sitting here right now using Netflix's "WATCH IT NOW" feature, and I'm thinking, man... its not rocket science. If I had an Apple TV, how nice would it be to go into iTunes, and tell it to send my right monitor's screen to Apple TV?

Moreover, if I was playing a DVD or Quicktime movie fullscreen on my laptop, wouldn't it be nice to just shoot that screen over to the television? Or, better yet, if I was demonstrating a web page, I could hook an Apple TV to the digital monitor and use my laptop (on the same network) to demo from half a room away. I think that would be powerful and UNIQUE... and most importantly, a software update away.

Sure, maybe the frame rate might be a point of contention, but I'd like to see it attempted.

EDIT: It would be a nice "parent" feature too, if kids are browsing the Internet, and you can "tune in" on them from the television set whenever you wanted (pass-protected of course).

~ CB



JonHimself
Dec 30, 2007, 03:20 PM
I would love to be able to purchase an add-on drive for either of the two HD dvd formats (though I would prefer BluRay) similar to what the Xbox 360 has. If they add the ability to purchase similar quality versions via iTunes and I can avoid the whole process of buying a next gen DVD player then that'd be fine as well.

barijazz
Dec 30, 2007, 06:08 PM
I'd like it to have a blu ray dvd player and the ability to buy tv shows, movies, songs and podcasts on apple tv, all in full 1080p. And that when you subscribe to a podcast or buy a season pass that it automatically downloaded straight to apple tv. And a computer could browse an apple tv's drive, like if a friend came to your house and wanted to get a song off your apple tv.:D

bjett92
Dec 30, 2007, 06:14 PM
I'd like it to have a blu ray dvd player and the ability to buy tv shows, movies, songs and podcasts on apple tv, all in full 1080p. And that when you subscribe to a podcast or buy a season pass that it automatically downloaded straight to apple tv. And a computer could browse an apple tv's drive, like if a friend came to your house and wanted to get a song off your apple tv.:D

That pretty much sums up what I want too. Maybe add the feature to share from :apple:TV to :apple:TV

nick.hobbie
Dec 31, 2007, 12:17 AM
I would like widgets, it sounds crazy but hear me out. I do not just sit and watch a movie, I am always doing something else, its the ADD in me.

1. I usually watch tv when I have dinner so the egg timer widget would be handy, put the tv dinner in the oven, set the timer, and when its done you hear a ding and a picture of the egg in the top corner.

2. New mail. I am constantly checking my email on my MB, I would like to see a little mail icon pop up when I get new mail.

3. Clock, hit a button and see the digital clock flash across the screen.

4. There would be a setting to toggle this on and off and set it up in the settings. But weather would be nice, stock ticker, scores of college and pro games, and news.

Everything convenient so I do not have to get up and use my MB.

levitynyc
Dec 31, 2007, 01:49 AM
I would like widgets, it sounds crazy but hear me out. I do not just sit and watch a movie, I am always doing something else, its the ADD in me.

1. I usually watch tv when I have dinner so the egg timer widget would be handy, put the tv dinner in the oven, set the timer, and when its done you hear a ding and a picture of the egg in the top corner.

2. New mail. I am constantly checking my email on my MB, I would like to see a little mail icon pop up when I get new mail.

3. Clock, hit a button and see the digital clock flash across the screen.

4. There would be a setting to toggle this on and off and set it up in the settings. But weather would be nice, stock ticker, scores of college and pro games, and news.

Everything convenient so I do not have to get up and use my MB.

I like the Widgets Idea....

Digital Skunk
Dec 31, 2007, 03:00 AM
The Widgets on your TV idea is a keeper.

The big thing I would want is a full functioning computer. I can buy a wireless keyboard and mouse and surf the web from the TV, or more importantly buy content from iTunes, download it and watch it right there.

Just give me a Mini with the ports of the Apple TV

phillipjfry
Dec 31, 2007, 07:44 AM
The Widgets on your TV idea is a keeper.

The big thing I would want is a full functioning computer. I can buy a wireless keyboard and mouse and surf the web from the TV, or more importantly buy content from iTunes, download it and watch it right there.

Just give me a Mini with the ports of the Apple TV

Somebody misses their WebTV :p

I am about to buy me a new TV and :apple:TV but am waiting for macworld to see if anything happens to it, update-wise. If I could choose something to be added to the basic functionality of an AppleTV it would be "DVD Player.

shiseiryu1
Dec 31, 2007, 08:45 AM
All these features sound great but I'd be happy if they'd just add webradio! :( I know that we're "supposed to buy all our music from iTunes"...but its kinda rude to cripple the AppleTV just to try to increase iTunes sales.

traderx1
Dec 31, 2007, 08:57 AM
All of these suggestions/desires sound great. But I wish they would fix the simple things first:

1. Dobly Digital/DTS/5.1 output
2. HD Def iTunes content (preferably 1080p, but I would settle for 720p for now)
3. Ability to add your codecs so we can watch some xvid/divx (.mkv?) on AppleTV (although I doubt this would ever happen)

Foocha
Dec 31, 2007, 08:59 AM
http://bp0.blogger.com/_DVemXS6fKCQ/R3kCah-jQpI/AAAAAAAAAA8/8-Fwy6je0M4/s320/appletv_2.0_mr.jpg (http://www.macpredictions.com/2007/12/blu-ray-apple-tv.html)
Screen mirroring and widgets are both great ideas. I also like barijazz's Blu-Ray idea. I'd add a display to the front as well, so you could use one without a TV, to hook up directly to your hifi. Maybe it would look something like the mockup image above.

http://www.macpredictions.com/2007/12/blu-ray-apple-tv.html

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 09:16 AM
All these features sound great but I'd be happy if they'd just add webradio! :( I know that we're "supposed to buy all our music from iTunes"...but its kinda rude to cripple the AppleTV just to try to increase iTunes sales.
I'm liking the list so far.


Widgets (Clock, Egg timers, Weather, Stocks, Flight planner, etc)
Safari Web Browser
RSS Reader
Screen Mirroring / Presentation & Parental Monitoring
Web Radio
iTunes WiFi Store /w Podcasts
USB Add-on Drive Integration (DVD,Blu-Ray,HD DVD)
*iPhone/iPod Touch visual remote application


*NEW ONE! I think an application can be created for the iPod/iPhone that gives you a visual remote control with more advanced features. For instance, it let's you JUMP to different sections of Apple TV very easily. Gives you "pinch/zoom" controls on the web browser, let's you "scrub" through videos... dragging the playhead to where you want instead of "FastForwarding", etc.

Ok. I'm seeing the potential. Tre kewl. I'm kind of against it being just a computer connected to the television. I don't think people should be writing e-mails or running Microsoft Word on it or anything. I think its great as a consumer appliance with "extras". The interface is great... as much as possible, I don't think it should force you to do anything you can't comfortably do with the minimalist Apple remote (or iPhone/iPod Touch visual remote application.) :)

Good stuff!

~ CB

Squonk
Dec 31, 2007, 10:10 AM
These are all excellent and reasonable suggestions. May fav's are:
- web radio
- bluray
- using iphone/Touch as "enhanced" remote
- widgets
- 5.1 sound output
- :apple:TV to :apple:TV sharing & DVR functionality. You know, the living room records the content and you could play back on any of the :apple:tvs in the house. I currently have 0 :apple:tv's, but I'd buy 2 right off with this kind of functionality.

barijazz
Dec 31, 2007, 10:35 AM
if the :apple:tvs could buy content off itunes (with a wireless mouse and keyboard) then the :apple:tv to :apple:tv would be so much cooler. My whole family is constantly buying songs off itunes and if we could use :apple:tv as a server to sync all our libraries, well, that'd be damn cool.:D

pilotError
Dec 31, 2007, 11:55 AM
External drive support
Get rid of the Authentication so I can stream off of my ReadyNAS
More Codec support

Its getting to the point where my PS3 can do more than my ATV can...

MacBoobsPro
Dec 31, 2007, 12:14 PM
Dvd drive with one click DVD rip to harddrive. Then reverse syncs to iTunes library.

Cave Man
Dec 31, 2007, 01:15 PM
Other than DVR (already talked to death), what ultimate feature would you like Apple TV to have. I basically ask this, because I honestly have one that would completely change things. YouTube was nice. RSS feeds and web browsing would be pretty cool too no doubt.

Here's my pitch. SCREEN MIRRORING. Basically in iChat, we see Apple supporting screen mirroring for other iChat watchers.

If the ATV update includes Leopard, it might be there already with Screen Sharing.

Here's what we really need:

Software update to Quicktime to do audio file passthrough.
HD video content of 720. Although the ATV can decode 1080 video, I'm not sure the hardware itself can deliver 1080. Apple's spec is 720 only. The gpu is capable of 1080 resolution, but can it deliver at 24 fps?
Dolby Digital or DTS (or similar 5.1) encoded audio to go with that 720/1080 HD video.
Movie rentals from the ATV. Most likely to the ATV's hard drive for temporary storage. I suspect that movie purchases would still have to be made from the computer (then streamed or sync'd with the ATV), otherwise a purchase made to the ATV would have to be back-sync'd to the iTunes library computer.
Turn on the USB port. External hard drives and other devices (e.g., Eye TV, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD) become available. This would also likely require software access by third-party vendors.

I really doubt we'll see a DVD, BluRay or HD-DVD hardware update to the ATV. It does not fit Apple's business model of downloadable content. We also will not see DVR functions unless Apple releases a new version of the ATV hardware. But who knows, maybe Stevie will surprise us.

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 01:38 PM
If the ATV update includes Leopard, it might be there already with Screen Sharing.Well, that's why I called it that, and not VNCtv. :) The main obstacle of course, would be that the system would need to integrate with iTunes so that it is platform agnostic. Because AppleTV uses MacOS, its got MUCH of these pieces almost ready to go.

~ CB

dwebb
Dec 31, 2007, 02:29 PM
I have 170 movies streaming to my Apple TV, and I'm adding more movies every week. It's getting painful to scroll through the flat list of movies. The Apple TV needs a better movie browser.

billabong
Dec 31, 2007, 03:10 PM
I really can't see Apple adding an optical drive to the AppleTV it would defeat to purpose of it. It was called "DVD player for the 21st century" now added an optical drive to it would be a step back in that statement. It would also take away from potential movie sales/rentals through the iTunes store.

What I expect to see is

1. Rentals through AppleTV
2. 720P HD Content! Finally (It may not be 1080P but it still a huge upgrade from DVD quality)
3. Maybe an Display on the AppleTv for playing music without your TV.
4. Widgets (Weather, News, Sports etc)
5. Browse iTunes store, make any purchase all form your remote

gkarris
Dec 31, 2007, 07:59 PM
I really can't see Apple adding an optical drive to the AppleTV it would defeat to purpose of it. It was called "DVD player for the 21st century" now added an optical drive to it would be a step back in that statement. It would also take away from potential movie sales/rentals through the iTunes store.

What I expect to see is

1. Rentals through AppleTV
2. 720P HD Content! Finally (It may not be 1080P but it still a huge upgrade from DVD quality)
3. Maybe an Display on the AppleTv for playing music without your TV.
4. Widgets (Weather, News, Sports etc)
5. Browse iTunes store, make any purchase all form your remote

Ditto on these.

Add:

6. 5.1 Surround sound.
7. Ability to sync with your iPod/iPhone - now, you don't even need a Mac or PC!

verbose
Dec 31, 2007, 08:03 PM
I would like my Apple TV to be able to display all the album artwork that iTunes can (mine won't display my jpegs of the Star Trek III and RoboCop soundtracks).

That and play back all the HD podcasts, such as Trailercast HD 720p available in iTunes (mine won't play back newly posted trailers, such as Rambo).

Just do what it's supposed to do. Then I'll get my hopes up about HD movies.

cicottrell
Jan 1, 2008, 08:16 AM
1) Third Party DVR via USB and a plugin
2) Blu-Ray or HD-DVD
3) YouTube (like on the iPhone)
4) Google Maps (ditto)
5) .Mac integration, for remote streaming of other peoples photos
6) Movie Rentals a click away
7) Web Radio
8) Proper HD content on iTunes (or any content at all for those of us outside the US!!!)
9) USB powered (HD)iSight and full iChat A/V use - imagine chatting full screen on a 50 inch HD flatscreen!

Ceebler
Jan 1, 2008, 09:10 AM
I don't have an Apple TV, but if they ever added a Cable Card interface, I would by it.

psychofreak
Jan 1, 2008, 09:12 AM
3) YouTube (like on the iPhone)


Its already there :)

zedsdead
Jan 1, 2008, 10:25 AM
On Screen Lyric Support

JimmyDreams
Jan 1, 2008, 11:59 AM
I'd like :apple:TV to have the ability to make me a meatloaf sandwhich!! And maybe a beverage dispenser, yeah! And remote control via mental telepathy. Yeah, that's the ticket!! And it would all be professionally installed by....uh...by PAMELA ANDERSON, yeah! And when she's done, she'd clean my house and cater to me every need!!! YEAH!!

(sorry, New Year, same old me!!)
:D

WilliamLondon
Jan 1, 2008, 12:18 PM
Other than DVR (already talked to death), what ultimate feature would you like Apple TV to have.

1) Ability to install other codecs!!!!! Patchstick doesn't work with Leopard and I've got 100s of videos I can't watch on this [potentially] cool device!!!

2) Ability to create playlist of music videos (downloaded from iTunes) that play serially (without having to select next in list and manually choose Play).

pipasforjaz
Jan 1, 2008, 12:30 PM
I would like to be able to change the picture on the movies...how can I explain? I have encoded many cartoons for my son to watch, but as many start with the same screen, the small picture that describes each is the same, so I would like to be able to change the poster frame
also would like the apple TV be able to decode AVI and otheres...I have so many that I could just put on it to watch....

CWallace
Jan 1, 2008, 01:28 PM
I don't have an Apple TV, but if they ever added a Cable Card interface, I would by it.

Adding CC would essentially by default also add a DVR capability since it would be kinda pointless, otherwise, unless you just wanted to get rid of your non-DVR cable box.

That being said, CC and DVR would likely greatly improve the :apple:tv's acceptance in the "general" marketplace, as would a DVD player (with no built-in ripping ability, though), since you would then have a single box that truly "does it all".

cicottrell
Jan 1, 2008, 03:42 PM
.... since you would then have a single box that truly "does it all".

thats my dream: I want one box (a super cool, slick, sexy apple box) to do my TV, my DVR, my music, my photos, my videos, my iTunes buys, my rentals and my HD movies on BR/HD-DVD.

nick.hobbie
Jan 3, 2008, 10:58 AM
I would like to be able to change the picture on the movies...how can I explain? I have encoded many cartoons for my son to watch, but as many start with the same screen, the small picture that describes each is the same, so I would like to be able to change the poster frame
also would like the apple TV be able to decode AVI and otheres...I have so many that I could just put on it to watch....

MetaX can do that.

williedigital
Jan 4, 2008, 09:39 AM
I have 170 movies streaming to my Apple TV, and I'm adding more movies every week. It's getting painful to scroll through the flat list of movies. The Apple TV needs a better movie browser.

Ding Ding Ding. I've got close to 3,000 and it really could use a better browser. Also the ability to sort/search by genre, director, year, etc.

Also, the appletv should be smart enough to use the "synced" copy of movies that are on the machine, rather than trying to stream the movie. For example, HD quality files do not stream successfully over my network. They play fine when synced and played from the apple tv. Nevertheless, when I have my itunes library selected as the source, it will try and play the file over the network rather than the version that is sitting on the box. Essentially, this means I have to memorize which movies are HD and synced, and then change libraries when I want to watch one of those films. That doesn't "just work"

tersono
Jan 4, 2008, 09:46 AM
5.1 (better yet, 6.1) audio
HD content via iTunes
A better movie browser

.. and the biggie for me:
Minimum 500gb HD - preferably 750gb.

Do the latter, and I'll be buying one on the day of release - I want to use it as primarily a music player and the big HD would allow me to do away with the old G4 I use as an iTunes server (or at least use it for other things).

MikeL
Jan 4, 2008, 10:25 AM
I have 170 movies streaming to my Apple TV, and I'm adding more movies every week. It's getting painful to scroll through the flat list of movies. The Apple TV needs a better movie browser.

Definitely.

The photo slideshow sucks, too. Compared to the competition it's really awful.

It's fun to read threads like this. You can tell who owns an ATV and who doesn't, and who is a home theater hobbyist and who isn't.

Tilpots
Jan 4, 2008, 11:03 AM
Not sure why many think apple won't add a DVD (or Blu-ray/HD DVD) option to the :apple:tv. The arguement about taking away from the iTunes movie sales seems silly. Aplle is only in the music/movie business to sell their HARDWARE. They make a lot more money from their hardware sales than they do their music/movie sales. Seems the only reason they created the iTunes store was to create content demand for their music player- the iPod. Apple's smart enough to know that their business is not the entertainment distribution business, it's the player hardware business. When all the big companies pull their music and videos from iTunes, they'll still be making a huge profit by selling iPods and :apple:tv's. If they want to keep this new hardware market cornered, they have to give the people what they want, a DVD (or Blu-ray/HD DVD) player. It will happen... eventually.

MikeL
Jan 4, 2008, 11:09 AM
Heh. Tilpots, your idea would have a lot of merit if the margins on the ATV weren't so awful.

Tilpots
Jan 4, 2008, 11:22 AM
MikeL,

Your right, the profit margin's not great, here's (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2007/tc20070606_984317.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily) an article on the costs associated with making an :apple:tv. The iPod makes WAY more money. The iPhone make WAY more money, but if your a company like apple, and everybody has 1 of each, then they could afford to take a sizeably lower profit margin on the :apple:tv. I think they're out to dominate the way we use all this new media. If they let some other company make a better version of the :apple:tv, then that company might make a better version of the iPod and folks stop buying apple's stuff altogether. I just think they're in it to dominate the new media now, and watch it payoff for years to come. To do that, they need to make a better :apple:TV.

And no, I don't own one... yet.:)

wPod
Jan 4, 2008, 04:15 PM
1) 5.1 Surround
2) high def content
3) enable the USB drive and allow software developent
-add TV tuner USB drive and DVR software for all the whiners
-add external HD
-add external blue ray drive (the external drive that will be coming with the ultra portable macbook!)
4) add composite output so the average joe can hook it to their TV and thus the :apple:TV will be able to reach a larger audience and be more popular (i use my :apple:TV on my SD tv which happens to have component input and the SD looks just fine, same quality as playing a DVD on my TV)

mr_matalino
Jan 4, 2008, 04:23 PM
It should print money. Preferably $100 and $20 bills (ink and paper sold separately).

barijazz
Jan 4, 2008, 10:13 PM
It should print money. Preferably $100 and $20 bills (ink and paper sold separately).

second, and better yet microsoft should be held accountable for the money fraud.:) it's a win win situation.

bluehoo
Jan 5, 2008, 05:47 PM
Click Wheel Remote

You need it to easily browse all your content on the iPod, why should the :apple:tv be any different?

carts44
Jan 6, 2008, 08:22 PM
iTunes radio is what I would like to see.

KevK
Jan 7, 2008, 02:46 PM
1 Real parental controls based upon meta-data ratings in songs and movies.

I can easily block recorded shows on my rented Comcast DVR. So why can't I block songs with explicit, and movies with PG,PG-13 or R ratings on the :apple:TV? The current parental controls are a joke. So I can block you-tube.

2 Better IPhoto navigation. - How about an Ipod-like interface where you can see contact sheets, then view individual photos.

3 Any update to the monolithic method of listing your movies. This gets really bad when you get most of your DVD collection on it. What would be nice, someone already mentioned - An option for searching movies by meta-data, e.g. Actor, Genre, etc.

4 Enable the USB for external storage and/or portable DVD.

5 Ditto to a previous post on modifying the :apple:TV software to use a local copy rather than streaming a movie from the sync source when it exists on the :apple:TV's HD.

Evangelion
Jan 8, 2008, 04:00 AM
Blu-Ray and the like would make the device quite expensive. Maybe they could release a new product (AppleTV Extreme or something like that), but on standard AppleTV it would be quite strange.

fiatlux
Jan 8, 2008, 09:11 AM
1.2 firmware wishlist

- iTunes Web Radios
- iChat (with optional USB webcam with built-in mic)
- support more codecs and file formats (AVI with DivX...)
- drop pairing/authentification for iTunes streaming, so that I can connect to the iTunes server running on my NAS instead of having to leave the PC running all the time
- support USB mass storage devices

This is all very reasonable and should be easy to implement in a firmware revision.

I'm not sure web browsing would be practical with the Apple remote. And while a DVD player could be handy, especially to copy disks to the hard drive, the :apple:TV does not have the storage spavce for VOBs, nor the CPU power for H264 encoding on the fly.

NightStorm
Jan 8, 2008, 09:31 AM
As long as they work on the streaming ability (I have problems streaming HD files over 802.11n that are over 1 hour in length) and include an iTunes Store frontend that can sync purchased content back over to my main iTunes library (as is already done with the iPhone), I'll be a happy camper.

mhall
Jan 8, 2008, 10:55 AM
I use mine primarily as a music jukebox so all I want is a search facility and to be able to create an on the go playlist. As you can do both of these on an ipod, god only knows why you can't on the Apple TV. It's a nightmare scrolling down through 18,000 songs to find the one you want that begins with a Z!
Fingers crossed...

Pigumon
Jan 9, 2008, 03:28 AM
The Widgets on your TV idea is a keeper.

The big thing I would want is a full functioning computer. I can buy a wireless keyboard and mouse and surf the web from the TV, or more importantly buy content from iTunes, download it and watch it right there.

Just give me a Mini with the ports of the Apple TV

Well... I mean what do you want? the Mac Mini can output HDMI, DVI, VGA, Composite/S-Video, so what more do you need?

unless your tv only has composite...

It can handle 720P & 1080i no problem, but it does drop frames at 1080P.

If there are no updates after macworld, i'd suggest going with a mini. :)

MikieMikie
Jan 9, 2008, 06:01 AM
Hell, I'd be happy with just Safari.

eXan
Jan 9, 2008, 06:36 AM
I just want it to have a DVD drive...

Xeem
Jan 9, 2008, 02:01 PM
I just want it to have a DVD drive...

Yeah, me too. I want a device that reduces the clutter around my TV by replacing existing components, not adds to it.

blybug
Jan 9, 2008, 04:46 PM
I would like to be able to change the picture on the movies...how can I explain? I have encoded many cartoons for my son to watch, but as many start with the same screen, the small picture that describes each is the same, so I would like to be able to change the poster frame
also would like the apple TV be able to decode AVI and otheres...I have so many that I could just put on it to watch....

You can change the cover art in iTunes, under the artwork tab of the Get Info box.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304706#3

joeshell383
Jan 10, 2008, 02:37 AM
Hardware:

Surround Sound
HDD Bump
1080p
Bluetooth (for keyboard, other potential devices)

Software:

iPod Touch/iPhone interface with widget-filled home screen
iPhone Apps (Safari, Mail, Weather, iTS)
Coverflow
Games

Content:

HD Content
Synchronized On-Screen Lyrics Option
Packaging/Liner Notes for Music and DVD/TV (Accessible from Coverflow album art, flip through pages like Leopard Finder documents)
Bonus Content for DVD/TV

Out There:

Downloadable Games for different consoles
iChat/AV
AT&T U-Verse
Subscription Option

Way Out There:

Monitor with Apple TV and iSight built in

gotohamish
Jan 10, 2008, 08:51 AM
I wonder if the 15th will bring ALL DRM-free music to iTunes (like Amazon) and appease the studios/labels but having rented movies with a time limit period. It would be great if they disabled DRM on all previous downloaded content too. This could be a really interesting MacWorld. It would certainly make the ATV more accessible, and also increase it's competition with the Xbox and PS3, and competition is never a bad thing.

levitynyc
Jan 10, 2008, 10:10 AM
Yeah, me too. I want a device that reduces the clutter around my TV by replacing existing components, not adds to it.

Makes no sense

The whole point of the Apple TV is eliminate physical media....a DVD drive would encourage it.

NightStorm
Jan 10, 2008, 10:17 AM
Makes no sense

The whole point of the Apple TV is eliminate physical media....a DVD drive would encourage it.
Exactly. I would be upset if I had to buy an AppleTV with a DVD player that I would never use.

bacaramac
Jan 10, 2008, 10:29 AM
Hell, I'd be happy with just Safari.

I will second this. PSP and others that are not even for browsing can do this. It would be great to sit in the living room and browse internet without sitting in my office to do this. Apple already has a great wireless keyboard that is small and sleek that I use on my MAC.

1. Bluetooth (for keyboard)
2. Safari
3. Movie download/rental HD Content
4. Better iPhoto support with events, etc.
5. DVD/Blu-Ray player (USB add on is fine). This way they can discontinue the product if no one uses it. ATV would still be ATV, just the option for the people that want it.

vandlism
Jan 10, 2008, 04:39 PM
1. Some sort of media drive, be it DVD or Blu-Ray
2. The ability to rent/buy/subscribe to video content
3. iPod dock, for the ability to carry around movies and watch them on TVs with little difficulty

MikeL
Jan 10, 2008, 07:18 PM
Safari? A keyboard? A DVD drive?

Some of you people might want to have a look at buying a computer rather than a video appliance.

cmwoodall
Jan 10, 2008, 08:11 PM
1) external USB drive support
2) power efficiency features
- automatically enter standby mode (mine is HOT all the time)
- wake on lan (so I don't have to go in other room to wake my pc)
3) RSS
4) iTunes shopping

bacaramac
Jan 10, 2008, 08:16 PM
Safari? A keyboard? A DVD drive?

Some of you people might want to have a look at buying a computer rather than a video appliance.

Yes this is an option, but don't people have PS3, PSP, X360's, MAC's, DVD Players, Home Theatres, etc. This is just one more toy to play with.

I am sure that there are devices that people can buy, but it's better for me since I need one for the Game Room, Living Room, Kid's Bedrooms, and Master Bedroom that I think it is cheaper to go this route.

Not that I am complaining if they didn't make updates, just thinking it would be nice. Safari is the number one thing I would like.

NightStorm
Jan 10, 2008, 09:11 PM
Safari? A keyboard? A DVD drive?

Some of you people might want to have a look at buying a computer rather than a video appliance.
Good point, if people want that they should buy a mini instead.

trip1ex
Jan 10, 2008, 09:16 PM
ATV needs content, movie rentals and price drops. And yes a better movie browser that will probably come with time or with a new remote. HD content will come eventually. That's a given.

For the rest of the suggestions check out the Mac Mini.

je1ani
Jan 11, 2008, 03:24 AM
Mkv playback support and not only mp4.. I don't really care if it can support bluray or not because my library is 100% digital.

aswitcher
Jan 11, 2008, 04:36 AM
Has surround sound
Control via wifi from touch/iPhone
Is an AEBS as well
Is cheaper

MikieMikie
Jan 11, 2008, 05:22 AM
... I would have bought one.

When asked, "what NEW feature" you would like, I responded with Safari.

I know it's an AppleTV and not a mini. I bought it. I love it. I don't need anything else.

When the OP asked, I thought of the many times I was sitting in front of my HDTV and had the need to surf to Wikipedia or to Google about something I had seen on tv.

That a mini can do that is not the issue. I would just like to be able to do that from my :apple:TV.

So there. :p

Orng
Jan 11, 2008, 06:14 AM
I'd like :apple:TV to have the ability to make me a meatloaf sandwhich!! And maybe a beverage dispenser, yeah! And remote control via mental telepathy. Yeah, that's the ticket!! And it would all be professionally installed by....uh...by PAMELA ANDERSON, yeah! And when she's done, she'd clean my house and cater to me every need!!! YEAH!!

(sorry, New Year, same old me!!)
:D

Good luck, :apple:tv doesn't even have a cup holder. The Mac Pro has a cup holder, why not the :apple:tv?

MikeL
Jan 11, 2008, 10:36 AM
That a mini can do that is not the issue. I would just like to be able to do that from my :apple:TV.

So there. :p

Not to be cruel or demeaning, but that's just stupid. You want to browse the web on an ATV? Good luck with the remote. Oh, wait, you mean you want a keyboard, too? And a mouse?

You want a computer. Buy one.

MikieMikie
Jan 11, 2008, 03:16 PM
Not to be cruel or demeaning, but that's just stupid. You want to browse the web on an ATV? Good luck with the remote. Oh, wait, you mean you want a keyboard, too? And a mouse?

You want a computer. Buy one.

I was never attributed with lots of intelligence, so I take no offense. My stupidity seems well within/below the range of others posting in this fantasy thread.

"I want my :apple:TV to massage my feet at night, when I get home from my postal route."

Is that more realistic? Or perhaps the wish for a Blu-Ray DVD player? Or auto-ripping? And other insane wishes? How about, "I want my :apple:TV to make people more open-minded and less quick to judge?"

What about whirled peas?

Come on, Mike. All I want is Safari. They put it on an eyePhone, and an eyeTouche.

-- Mikie

Cleverboy
Jan 11, 2008, 06:56 PM
PLEASE NOTE: I'm making this up. Any resemblance to the truth is entirely coincidental.

I've just heard from a secret source that Apple will be officially announcing 4 things at MacWorld. They're "Something is in the air" teaser is a reference to the fact that the important announcements will deal with "wireless" technology.

1. Announcement #1: iPhone. Massive success. Upgrading to 16GB. As you may have heard (yadda, yadda), firmware 1.1.3. Expect it within the next week.
2. Announcement #2: iPhone SDK. Expect it in February, presenters: Delicious Monster and Slingbox Media. Demos. Presenting preview of iTunes 7.7, with support for application loading, etc. Introducing iChat, with video over WiFi. Will be released in February.
3. Announcement #3: iTablet/MacTablet. Multi-touch. MacOS X. Bluetooth 2.0. Georgeous. Shipping NOW. $999.
4. Announcement #4: iTunes Rentals & HD content. Works on iPhone, iPod, Apple TV. New major studios on-board, 24 hours, blah, blah.

5. And One More Thing: This is BIG. :eek: Apple TV2. Features: Revamped interface. Dual cable card support. Built-in DVR. iTunes WiFi Store & Ministore with built-in interactive television guide and live-pause. Casual gaming titles available through iTunes. Bluetooth 2.0. 5.1 surround sound. $299. Pre-order today, ships at the end of the month.

6: One MORE Thing: Apple TV remote doubles as a microphone, and AppleTV supports iChat for video phone calls, even during normal tv watching. Now available on Windows. Coming to iPhone in February.

Jobs shocks the world again, and competitors crap their pants.

~ CB

barijazz
Jan 11, 2008, 07:10 PM
1) 5.1 Surround
2) high def content
3) enable the USB drive and allow software developent
-add TV tuner USB drive and DVR software for all the whiners
-add external HD
-add external blue ray drive (the external drive that will be coming with the ultra portable macbook!)
4) add composite output so the average joe can hook it to their TV and thus the :apple:TV will be able to reach a larger audience and be more popular (i use my :apple:TV on my SD tv which happens to have component input and the SD looks just fine, same quality as playing a DVD on my TV)

I'd like it to have a blu ray dvd player and the ability to buy tv shows, movies, songs and podcasts on apple tv, all in full 1080p. And that when you subscribe to a podcast or buy a season pass that it automatically downloaded straight to apple tv. And a computer could browse an apple tv's drive, like if a friend came to your house and wanted to get a song off your apple tv.:D

Other than DVR (already talked to death), what ultimate feature would you like Apple TV to have. I basically ask this, because I honestly have one that would completely change things. YouTube was nice. RSS feeds and web browsing would be pretty cool too no doubt.

Here's my pitch. SCREEN MIRRORING. Basically in iChat, we see Apple supporting screen mirroring for other iChat watchers. While its not exactly super-ideal, I'd love to be able to choose a monitor on my computer to "SEND TO APPLE TV" (I have multiple-monitors). It would make Apple TV an EXCELLENT presentation tool, and make ANY computer/web content instantly available on the television.

I mean, I'm sitting here right now using Netflix's "WATCH IT NOW" feature, and I'm thinking, man... its not rocket science. If I had an Apple TV, how nice would it be to go into iTunes, and tell it to send my right monitor's screen to Apple TV?

Moreover, if I was playing a DVD or Quicktime movie fullscreen on my laptop, wouldn't it be nice to just shoot that screen over to the television? Or, better yet, if I was demonstrating a web page, I could hook an Apple TV to the digital monitor and use my laptop (on the same network) to demo from half a room away. I think that would be powerful and UNIQUE... and most importantly, a software update away.

~ CB

ALL OF THOSE COMBINED AND APPLE WILL RULE THE WORLD!!


All of those

levitynyc
Jan 11, 2008, 07:21 PM
PLEASE NOTE: I'm making this up. Any resemblance to the truth is entirely coincidental.

I've just heard from a secret source that Apple will be officially announcing 4 things at MacWorld. They're "Something is in the air" teaser is a reference to the fact that the important announcements will deal with "wireless" technology.

1. Announcement #1: iPhone. Massive success. Upgrading to 16GB. As you may have heard (yadda, yadda), firmware 1.1.3. Expect it within the next week.
2. Announcement #2: iPhone SDK. Expect it in February, presenters: Delicious Monster and Slingbox Media. Demos. Presenting preview of iTunes 7.7, with support for application loading, etc. Introducing iChat, with video over WiFi. Will be released in February.
3. Announcement #3: iTablet/MacTablet. Multi-touch. MacOS X. Bluetooth 2.0. Georgeous. Shipping NOW. $999.
4. Announcement #4: iTunes Rentals & HD content. Works on iPhone, iPod, Apple TV. New major studios on-board, 24 hours, blah, blah.

5. And One More Thing: This is BIG. :eek: Apple TV2. Features: Revamped interface. Dual cable card support. Built-in DVR. iTunes WiFi Store & Ministore with built-in interactive television guide and live-pause. Casual gaming titles available through iTunes[/B]. Bluetooth 2.0. 5.1 surround sound. $299. Pre-order today, ships at the end of the month.

6: One MORE Thing: Apple TV remote doubles as a microphone, and AppleTV supports iChat for video phone calls, even during normal tv watching. Now available on Windows. Coming to iPhone in February.

Jobs shocks the world again, and competitors crap their pants.

~ CB

Not bad....things I bolded....nope....

There is NOT absolutely NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT going to be DVR capabilities in the ATV!!!!

samh004
Jan 12, 2008, 07:22 AM
9) USB powered (HD)iSight and full iChat A/V use - imagine chatting full screen on a 50 inch HD flatscreen!

I think that'd be really scary actually. I don't want to see my uncle that large in the middle of the living room ;)

DakotaGuy
Jan 12, 2008, 10:16 AM
I'd like to see DVR capability and a DVD/Blu-ray drive since I will need one anyhow. I have a HD DVD player and things look to be switching over so I will need to add Blu-ray and I don't want a PS3.

Cleverboy
Jan 13, 2008, 08:49 AM
Not bad....things I bolded....nope....
There is NOT absolutely NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT going to be DVR capabilities in the ATV!!!! Why not? My main objection to the thought of a DVR was the maturity of the cable card support in the field. I think that's ready to go now. I do NOT subscribe to the idea that Apple's downloadable iTunes content is threatened. People ALREADY DVR and watch TV. If Apple can market to them *during* that experience, it should result in MORE sales... not LESS.

What I recently put to a friend of mine...

If AppleTV is to be the next great DVD player-type phenomena... then it needs to actually integrate with the television, and not simply be a "feed". People want the complete package, but so-far, cable companies have done a PATHETIC job at being that. No matter how hard they try, cable box controls have remained relatively CLUNKY, AWKWARD, and UNINTUITIVE.

Imagine an Apple version of your TV guide. No subscription fee. You just buy an AppleTV and you're done. Complete with coverflow to review your media, and core animation to whiz from program to program. With a cable card, suddenly you're able to read iTunes reviews of television shows, and add your own ratings. You can call up past seasons of the show you're watching, and start downloading them in the background. Without the ability to PAUSE abd/or RECORD your live television DVR-style... none of that makes much compelling sense.

Both Cable and Wireless companies have tried and FAILED on the consumer-end, to give consumers the type of experience they want. I know, I've worked with people that have contracted to re-design cable interfaces. Let APPLE do it! Let Microsoft. Step aside, and let those who know better get in and revolutionize and excite them about your offerings and prices. Apple's technologies were MADE to be the core of the next set top box.

Amazon and Yahoo are working with TiVo. It's time to deal TiVo a death blow. It's time to add the DVR the RIGHT way. There is little else a "major" Apple TV update could do that people would care about. HD is an also-ran. Their current strategy is "hobbyist" at best. The industry is threatening to make iTunes video downloads irrelevant, and Apple needs to mitigate that very soon.

~ CB

CWallace
Jan 13, 2008, 09:34 AM
There are a few reasons the :apple:tv will not (soon) add DVR functionality.

The first is cost to the user. Even if Apple eats the cost of the tuner and CableCard, you need a scheduling service so that people can find shows to record and the box knows how to do that. That requires a monthly subscription like with your cable/satellite provider or Tivo. So on top of $300 for the unit, and your cable/satellite fee, you now need to pay Apple $10-15 a month for DVR services.

The second is cost to Apple and the content providers. Every tv show a user DVRs is a show a user will not buy off the iTunes Store. Especially when that show is broadcast in HD on cable/satellite and in SD on the iTunes store. Adding DVR and DVD functionality to the :apple:tv defeats the reason it was created in the first place - to support the iTunes Store.

The third is support costs. The more stuff you add, the greater the chance something will break. If Apple adds DVR functionality, they will be able to only pawn so much off to the cable/satellite provider. And for things like scheduling, they will be the primary point of contact for end-users (so when my services adds a new channel, I need to contact Apple to get the guide updated).

And I am sure there are more...

trip1ex
Jan 13, 2008, 10:51 AM
There are a few reasons the :apple:tv will not (soon) add DVR functionality.

The first is cost to the user. Even if Apple eats the cost of the tuner and CableCard, you need a scheduling service so that people can find shows to record and the box knows how to do that. That requires a monthly subscription like with your cable/satellite provider or Tivo. So on top of $300 for the unit, and your cable/satellite fee, you now need to pay Apple $10-15 a month for DVR services.

The second is cost to Apple and the content providers. Every tv show a user DVRs is a show a user will not buy off the iTunes Store. Especially when that show is broadcast in HD on cable/satellite and in SD on the iTunes store. Adding DVR and DVD functionality to the :apple:tv defeats the reason it was created in the first place - to support the iTunes Store.

The third is support costs. The more stuff you add, the greater the chance something will break. If Apple adds DVR functionality, they will be able to only pawn so much off to the cable/satellite provider. And for things like scheduling, they will be the primary point of contact for end-users (so when my services adds a new channel, I need to contact Apple to get the guide updated).

And I am sure there are more...

Sound reasoning of course.

On the other hand people are going to watch CAble and use DVRs anyway. And ATV really isn't a replacement for CAbleTV today.

So an ATV would be even more attractive if you could at least watch CAble on it. Let's forget about the DVR. Making it a cable box means you stop renting one from your cable provider. CableCard doesn't work with on-demand content and there's where iTunes comes in. ATV could overlay various functionality with the TV signal too without having to switch TV inputs.

In other words I would look at it as a Trojan Horse.

Xeem
Jan 13, 2008, 10:51 AM
Makes no sense

The whole point of the Apple TV is eliminate physical media....a DVD drive would encourage it.

I would argue that the whole point of an Apple TV is to extend your iTunes media library onto your television, not to eliminate physical media. The fact is, most of us aren't ready to eliminate physical media right now. The vast majority of people get their movies on DVD/Blu-ray/HDDVD, and the Apple TV should reflect that. Instead Apple chose to only support digital formats, but they fail there too, because they don't natively support DIVX (and it variants), which is by far the most popular movie format out there. A Mini with Front Row still makes far more sense than an Apple TV.

Cleverboy
Jan 13, 2008, 11:17 AM
There are a few reasons the :apple:tv will not (soon) add DVR functionality.Bring 'em on.

The first is cost to the user. Even if Apple eats the cost of the tuner and CableCard, you need a scheduling service so that people can find shows to record and the box knows how to do that. That requires a monthly subscription like with your cable/satellite provider or Tivo. So on top of $300 for the unit, and your cable/satellite fee, you now need to pay Apple $10-15 a month for DVR services. I say, Apple "eats" the cost of a terrestrial tuner... that's ALL it eats. Why does it need to eat more? It puts in two slots for cable cards (purchased separately). If you add a cable card, you can source your reception through that instead. You want more, you pay more. If you're like many people, including me, you'll be able to utilize terrestrial reception perfectly fine.

The second is cost to Apple and the content providers. Every tv show a user DVRs is a show a user will not buy off the iTunes Store. Especially when that show is broadcast in HD on cable/satellite and in SD on the iTunes store. Adding DVR and DVD functionality to the :apple:tv defeats the reason it was created in the first place - to support the iTunes Store.Your argument is a MODEL for the same argument the RIAA makes, isn't it? It's the same model for the argument that almost got VCRs killed before they splashed into the market. It's a bad argument with only the "illusion" of relevance. Let's clear it up. Do cable companies now give consumers DVRs? Yes. Do cable companies also have "on demand"? Yes. Do cable companies also give "complimentary" "on demand" broadcasting? Yes. If Apple created a DVR, they would only be taking the place of what many consumers already have. Moreover, if you are watching an old TV show through your Apple TV, like... "The Fugutive", and pulling up the "on screen" program guide, let's you know that "The Fugutive" (movie) with Harrison Ford is available "on demand" through iTunes, and one CLICK... and its downloading while you watch the tv show... that is MORE money for iTunes, not LESS. Moreover, is every podcast a reason NOT to buy an audiobook, or what have you? No. Apple knows the need for FOOT TRAFFIC. If simply watching TV puts you into a mini-iTunes store in the guide... that's a HUGE bonus for Apple.

The third is support costs. The more stuff you add, the greater the chance something will break. If Apple adds DVR functionality, they will be able to only pawn so much off to the cable/satellite provider. And for things like scheduling, they will be the primary point of contact for end-users (so when my services adds a new channel, I need to contact Apple to get the guide updated). I don't think you understand. Do you know what happens when you stick a CD into iTunes? Apple contacts a third-party company called "Gracenote" and it gives you the names to all the tracks. Gracenotes keeps this database current... not Apple. Regarding a guide... there are numerous reputable sources Apple can license a television guide service from. Tons of them. What you don't understand is that Microsoft is ALREADY doing this. They already have MediaCenter with integrated DVR features and channel guides, etc, etc. All you're saying is that Apple isn't good enough or smart enough to do the same thing. --Which I disagree. Moreover, I think they can do it BETTER. How do you think TiVo functions? Or MythTV for that matter?
http://www.titantv.com/index.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fquickguide%2fquickguide.aspx
And I am sure there are more... Yes, there are certainly more examples of anything, but the question is... do they make sense? Are they persuasive reasons? Do they add up?

At this point, I think Apple knows people want an Apple branded DVR. In my mind, the only show-stopped was the whole "tuning" situation. I think they can afford to support add-on cable cards for customers with cable and a built-in HD tuner for customers without.

If Apple doesn't but a DVR in there, I think it'll be because they haven't finished it yet... OR... they're concerned about disturbing their partners. Combined with their new rental offering though... with money that goes DIRECTLY back to the studios... cutting out the cable companies on everything but bandwidth... I think those partners couldn't be happier though. Apple sells more devices, Studios get paid for more content, and Cable Companies look for ways to get on board with them.

~ CB

Cleverboy
Jan 13, 2008, 11:25 AM
Sound reasoning of course. Not really.
On the other hand people are going to watch CAble and use DVRs anyway. And ATV really isn't a replacement for CAbleTV today. Well. You say that. "Today" is probably the most important word there.
So an ATV would be even more attractive if you could at least watch CAble on it. Let's forget about the DVR.You can't forget the DVR. If you had cable throughput and NO DVR, consumers would reject it. Plain and simple.
Making it a cable box means you stop renting one from your cable provider. CableCard doesn't work with on-demand content and there's where iTunes comes in. ATV could overlay various functionality with the TV signal too without having to switch TV inputs. Exactly.
In other words I would look at it as a Trojan Horse. BIG TIME. A programmable, updatable box. Here's the kicker. Rumor has it Microsoft is working very hard to get a 360 DVR going. People can keep looking the other way, but as a media extender, Apple and Microsoft are still battling for the living room. Apple TV needs to connect with add-on devices too, but I say they build the DVR right into it.

If Apple can pump out something like that, and still keep the price point at $300 or so, they're in extremely good shape. I honestly think they can get in spitting distance of it.

~ CB

Bengt77
Jan 13, 2008, 12:23 PM
I have a Wii which I can use to surf the web.
I have a dvd player for playing dvd's.
I have a receiver for radio.
I have an iPod as a jukebox.
I have my cd's for really playing music.

Having said that, I would like the Apple TV to be able to play content besides that in my iTunes Libary. Also, I would like to be able to use it even when my Mac is turned off. But on the other hand, I would also love the Apple TV to become some sort of 'screen extender'; a device that acts as a screen mirroring device for my Mac. That way, I could be couch computing (not just couch surfing) with a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, with my tv as the screen, without using cables. Also, now that the format war seems to be over soon, I would like the Apple TV to gain a Blu-ray drive, albeit one that can be upgraded to a Blu-ray 1.1 and 2.0 player (like the PS3 can). Lastly, I would like a better remote than the flimsy Apple Remote. Adding a click wheel might be a good start...

Until the Apple TV gains these capabilities, I will hold out for one. It's not the device for me right now. Yet.

Oh, and might the iTunes Store indeed gain a movie rental service, then Apple, could you please release such a service world wide? I'm growing quite sick of features that can only be used by people in the US. Please pay more attention to your Canadian, South American, Oceanic, European, Asian and, what the heck, even African clients.

MikeL
Jan 13, 2008, 02:16 PM
Some of you are pretty good at ignoring why the stand-alone DVR market has failed.

Eric Lewis
Jan 13, 2008, 02:19 PM
XTUBE CHANNEL

like youtube but XXX

billabong
Jan 13, 2008, 03:17 PM
I really can't see blu getting added to the AppleTV... But if it did, it would be the only way I would go blu. I currently have the HD DVD player for the 360, but since Warners big announcement, and rumors of other studios going blu exclusive. I'm a little worried about the future of HD DVD, but not about to jump on the blu wagon either. But if AppleTV added a blu drive, I might reconsider it.

CWallace
Jan 13, 2008, 08:30 PM
I remain convinced that if we see an AppleTV update on Tuesday, it will have neither a DVR nor an optical drive.

Nor will it a year from now.

mickhyperion
Jan 13, 2008, 08:43 PM
PLAY ALL

Ideal for music videos, cartoons, and other short programs. I do not want to return to a menu every 3 minutes.

Cleverboy
Jan 13, 2008, 09:03 PM
I remain convinced that if we see an AppleTV update on Tuesday, it will have neither a DVR nor an optical drive.
Nor will it a year from now. Well... I agree, you're probably right, but I've lost all my arguments for why. I'm very interested to know what Apple may be planning to do that advances the AppleTV platform. HD? Nope. Rentals? Not enough. They need to introduce something pretty significant for it to be a "major" upgrade. I'll be impressed if they hail from left field.
Some of you are pretty good at ignoring why the stand-alone DVR market has failed. Cool. What's that?

~ CB

w00master
Jan 13, 2008, 09:46 PM
Features I'd like to see in the "new" AppleTV
1. Like others, I'd love to see screen sharing and/or remote viewing.
I could actually see this happening. With Leopard they added two new features: "Back to my Mac" and "Screen Sharing" within iChat. I've always thought that these two features for Leopard are absolutely HUGE, yet at the same-time ignored or put into "2nd tier" features. I think these two features hint at future things that Apple is planning to do not only in AppleTV, but also in their iPod and iPhone lines.

2. Much larger hard drives.
I'm talkin' about 300 gigs and up. However, I doubt we'll see this.

3. 3rd party support (SDK)
I'd love to see 3rd party plug-ins, AppleTV "apps," AppleTV "widgets."


Back to the "DVR" issue. I highly doubt Apple will ever do this. Why? Because DVR support is extremely messy, and the TV "userbase" is extremely varied from over-the-air to cable to satellite. I just don't see Steve Jobs wanting to get into that mess.

The *only* possible "in" for DVRs on AppleTV is IPTV. With IPTV, you have something that AppleTV already has access to: the internet. Implementation of this would be far more "Apple like," no crazy "cable card" standards, no worries about satellites, etc. IPTV would be very "clean" and "thin" for Apple to implement. This would be far more to Steve Jobs' liking. *However*, due to the current speeds that are offered in the US for broadband, I can't see IPTV happening anytime soon for AppleTV. Heck, even for the XBox360 (which has announced future IPTV support), IPTV for the XBox360 isn't even being rolled out in the US.

Well, that's it for me. Most of what I "want" in AppleTV ver. 2 will probably never happen, but I can always dream. :)

w00master

CWallace
Jan 13, 2008, 10:12 PM
Some of you are pretty good at ignoring why the stand-alone DVR market has failed.

I know many believe it is a combination of cost and warranty worries.

I bought a TivoHD for $300 and three years of service was another $300 on top of that. So my cost per month for 36 months is $16 a month. Comcast charged me $14 a month for the DVR and another $3 a month for the ComcastTivo interface (when it becomes available), which is $17. So I actually save $1 a month with the TivoHD and enjoy Tivo service now. As to warranty, I have owed DVRs (Tivo and Comcast) for a decade and have yet to have a failure.

Cleverboy
Jan 13, 2008, 10:28 PM
I know many believe it is a combination of cost and warranty worries.

I bought a TivoHD for $300 and three years of service was another $300 on top of that. So my cost per month for 36 months is $16 a month. Comcast charged me $14 a month for the DVR and another $3 a month for the ComcastTivo interface (when it becomes available), which is $17. So I actually save $1 a month with the TivoHD and enjoy Tivo service now. As to warranty, I have owed DVRs (Tivo and Comcast) for a decade and have yet to have a failure.What kind of "service" does TiVo provide to you for your $300/3 years? My impression, which could be way off, is that you're basically paying for the channel guide updates (as well as its "recommendation" system, similar to NetFlix).

~ CB

MikeL
Jan 13, 2008, 10:53 PM
What kind of "service" does TiVo provide to you for your $300/3 years? My impression, which could be way off, is that you're basically paying for the channel guide updates (as well as its "recommendation" system, similar to NetFlix).

Much more importantly, without the service your Tivo doesn't work.

It's a business model that is highly dependent upon subscription revenue. Cable/satellite DVRs can be had for the price of the subscription, or less. Try telling the average consumer why they should play more.

Spend some time learning about the market before you blindly declare that Apple could succeed in it.

Cleverboy
Jan 13, 2008, 11:44 PM
Much more importantly, without the service your Tivo doesn't work. It's a business model that is highly dependent upon subscription revenue. Cable/satellite DVRs can be had for the price of the subscription, or less. Try telling the average consumer why they should play more.I see. What if the business model wasn't relegated to existing mostly on subscription fees? I hear TiVo's just been bleeding cash (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2223932,00.asp), and is in a genuinely poor position overall (with the exception of their patents). --So, don't tell me that its a "successful" business model to have subscribers pay fees for tv guides.
TiVo continued to lose money, reporting a loss of $8.2 million for the company's third quarter.
Service and technology revenues, however, were $58.3 million, compared with $52.5 million for the same period last year. The company said its adjusted EBITDA was $0.3 million.

TiVo's subscription numbers have slid slightly but steadily for several quarters; through the third quarter ended Oct. 31, cumulative total subscriptions were 4.1 million. During the second quarter, they were 4.2 million, down from 4.3 million in the fourth quarter and 4.4 million in the company's fourth quarter ended Jan. 31, 2007.
If some company were to come along and use DVR functionality to sell "on-demand" products/offerings, as well as earning a large amount of revenue on hardware (that is genuinely optimized to produce profit and not loss), and earns Apple extra revenue by leveraging the same on-demand content across a number of other profitable hardware offerings? --I think the business model becomes significantly better.

Spend some time learning about the market before you blindly declare that Apple could succeed in it.Wow. Hey, I'm just confirming to be polite. If you don't understand what I'm about to say, well, welcome to the wonderful world of "new information". If you are required to PAY TiVo, simply to have the device "work", I think... as I've always thought... that it sounds like a bit of a rip-off. :(

A little ways back, TiVo actually offered "lifetime" subscriptions, and I was tempted to buy one, and get one of those. They stopped, I lost interest. Then, I kept hearing about things like MythTV... and I started checking further into HOW a DVR/PVR might function without a service like TiVo to back them up. Until September of last year, MythTV used ZapIt's DataDirect program listing service. Now, it uses a non-profit system that charges $20 per year, called "Schedules Direct (http://www.schedulesdirect.org/faq)".

What occurs to me, is that if, like iTunes, AppleTV simply accesses listings "as needed"... like when you browse a website, or the iTunes store... then there does not need to be expensive "downloadings" of all local program listings on a regular basis. Don't forget, Apple manages a huge and ever-growing directory of podcasts, music, tv shows, etc. While working with a partner like TitanTV might be "involved", I don't think it would be out of the question for them to absorb the costs and offer free life-time program listings to Apple TV purchasers. That's what we've been hearing regarding lyrics for a while, and its what they do for song-titles for your CDs for millions of iTunes users.

For instance... if you think I'm talking sunshine and roses from no where... look at what a little company like El Gato did with its EyeTV product...

http://www.pbcentral.com/columns/hildreth_kravitz/eyetv.shtml

EyeTV's software is easy to install and relatively simple to use. An internet connection is needed to make use of the free, integrated Titan TV interactive programming guide service. With Titan TV, you can look up shows in a standard Web browser and very easily schedule them for programming. What's nice about Titan is that it's free, whereas TiVO and ReplayTV charge for their programming guide. Without the guide, a unit like this is severely limited. I'll continue to believe that TiVo has its business model resting on shakey ground, if you buy that its predicated on charging for TV listings. People are opting for TiVo simply for the better interface.

If there is ANY reason Apple won't do a DVR... my bet is that it's because TiVo owns enough patents to dissuade them from even licensing the rights.

~ CB

MikeL
Jan 14, 2008, 12:31 AM
There have been a few good recent threads on this that answer your questions. Use the search.

CWallace
Jan 14, 2008, 10:27 AM
What kind of "service" does TiVo provide to you for your $300/3 years? My impression, which could be way off, is that you're basically paying for the channel guide updates (as well as its "recommendation" system, similar to NetFlix).

The most important is, indeed, the television programming service which allows me to identify and program recordings for the DVR. But it does offer me options like the ability to watch recordings on my computer, the ability to stream music and pictures from my computer to my television, On-Demand content through Amazon's Unbox, and other items.

The main reason I use Tivo is it works. Comcast's DVR software is useless. It records shows at random, often forgets to record what you tell it to, and does not begin to offer the flexibility that Tivo's OS does. Initial reports of the ComcastTivo software show it too is not very polished, which reinforces my belief that buying the TivoHD and three years of service was the right decision for me.

CWallace
Jan 14, 2008, 10:57 AM
I see. What if the business model wasn't relegated to existing mostly on subscription fees?

Even the open-source/public guide services like ScheduleDirect have a fee associated with them (though admittedly far cheaper) because they have to pay Tribune Media Services for the original content. And that content is often delivered in a "raw" format, so how useful would it be - especially for folks who are not technically savvy?

A very big reason why people by the :apple:tv instead of a far more capable Mac Mini-based system is that you don't need to know how to use a computer to use an :apple:tv. So either the end-user needs to learn how to use a computer, or Apple has to spend money developing a back-end that does all that for you. And if they choose the latter, they either need to charge an ongoing fee for it or raise the price of the product to absorb that cost all at once.


If some company were to come along and use DVR functionality to sell "on-demand" products/offerings, as well as earning a large amount of revenue on hardware (that is genuinely optimized to produce profit and not loss), and earns Apple extra revenue by leveraging the same on-demand content across a number of other profitable hardware offerings? --I think the business model becomes significantly better.

Tivo likely does make money on their hardware - especially things like the Tivo S3 which went for $800. Also, adding the tuner and CC functionality to the :apple:tv will either require a price increase or a profit cut. However, you only buy the hardware once, so you either need to replace that hardware often or you need to find another consistent revenue stream that ties into that hardware to keep the monies coming in between updates. And Tivo has been doing the latter with the subscription service and feature/functionality updates.


If you are required to PAY TiVo, simply to have the device "work", I think... as I've always thought... that it sounds like a bit of a rip-off. :(

Tivo is a service like any other. You need to pay for your internet access, your phone service, your cable/satellite, your water, your power, etc.


What occurs to me, is that if, like iTunes, AppleTV simply accesses listings "as needed"... like when you browse a website, or the iTunes store... then there does not need to be expensive "downloadings" of all local program listings on a regular basis.

Without regular updates on a consistent basis, the value of the system starts to break down. If I can't find what I am looking for because the data is out of date, I become less likely to use it - especially if an inexpensive option that works is available (cable/satellite DVR service).


While working with a partner like TitanTV might be "involved", I don't think it would be out of the question for them to absorb the costs and offer free life-time program listings to Apple TV purchasers.

The trick is, which "lifetime" - your's, or the company's? God forbid Tivo goes under and nobody picks it up, all those folk's "lifetime" ends.

What happens if Apple finds it too expensive to keep subsidizing the costs? Their "lifetime" becomes your "lifetime", even if you still feel healthy.


I'll continue to believe that TiVo has its business model resting on shakey ground, if you buy that its predicated on charging for TV listings. People are opting for TiVo simply for the better interface.

Tivo's business model is fine. The problem is the cable and satellite companies are offering the same business model on what is believed to be a less expensive basis. Because the cable/satellite companies "hide" the price of the hardware in the monthly rental fee, people believe it is cheaper, even if an actual cost-analysis at times might show Tivo is the better deal (as it is for me).

Apple will face the same problem, even if they don't charge for the service. People will still see the $300 (or more, depending on how Apple decides to handle the programming costs) they have to pay and compare it to the ~$15 a month they need to pay their cable/satellite provider. Then they will think about what happens if it breaks. With Apple, they need to buy AppleCare and even then are only covered for three years. With their cable/satellite provider, they get a new box.

And what happens when new technology comes out? I had a Tivo Series2 and loved it, but eventually I bought an HDTV and needed a cable box that could tune those channels. So I got one from my cable company and still used the Tivo Series2 to record SD content. I hated having to stay up late to watch HD content live, as well as sit through commercials, but then my cable company offered me a DVR that could record HD. So I used the cable DVR for HD and the Tivo Series2 for SD.

But sometimes I still had to watch live HD because there would be two HDshows on at the same time. Then the cable company gave me a new box with two HD tuners. Goodbye Tivo Series2 - I still thought the service was much better then what Comcast offered, but the Tivo Series2 could no longer perform the tasks I asked of it and (at the time) was more expensive on a monthly basis then the cable option.

Many cable companies are moving to a technology called SDV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_digital_video) (Switched Digital Video). Current CableCard-based devices like Tivo (and a new :apple:tv) cannot work with it, though Tivo says they will have a USB-dongle that will (which Apple could also use). But until they do, you won't be able to receive SDV channels, much less record them.

In the end, any major changes may very well require you to buy a new :apple:tv to support them - assuming Apple decides to do so. That uncertainty is going to scare a lot of people off - maybe too many.

Cleverboy
Jan 14, 2008, 11:25 AM
Even the open-source/public guide services like ScheduleDirect have a fee associated with them (though admittedly far cheaper) because they have to pay Tribune Media Services for the original content. And that content is often delivered in a "raw" format, so how useful would it be - especially for folks who are not technically savvy? I see... because we all know how Apple gives iTunes users raw data responses from Gracenote. Um... why on Earth would Apple DO that? :confused: I even stated how much they charged, and I commented that Apple could afford to absorb the cost. Look at TitanTV. No... go LOOK at them. They're effectively a WEBSITE... just like iTunes is a specialized website. In aggregate, you're not really dealing with the same model at all. Just look at the interactive listings at TV.com or TVGuide.com. Integrate that with the iTunes proprietary browsing system and overlay it on live video... and voila.
What happens if Apple finds it too expensive to keep subsidizing the costs? Their "lifetime" becomes your "lifetime", even if you still feel healthy.I'm not going to argue with you. I think you're in a "box" of some kind. Personally I know of tons of companies whether they be Microsoft or Apple or Google, that have released hardware with indeterminate service contracts whether to web based services or software updates. In the end, they have language about cutting off support and liability. Everyone does. I mean... just look at all of our analog tv sets. The world changes. No biggie. You shouldn't think in such limited terms though. Lots and lots of successful examples out there to model.

~ CB

Cleverboy
Jan 14, 2008, 11:39 AM
There have been a few good recent threads on this that answer your questions. Use the search.I don't have any questions for you. You can sit down now.

~ CB

MikeL
Jan 14, 2008, 12:16 PM
I don't have any questions for you. You can sit down now.

~ CB

Other than those you asked? It's delightful how you parade being ignorant, and get huffy when someone suggests you use the forum tools to educate yourself. Clever? Uh huh.

If people took five minutes to give themselves a hint at some background knowledge, they'd be much more valuable contributors. Ever thought of trying that?

CWallace
Jan 14, 2008, 12:53 PM
I'm not going to argue with you. I think you're in a "box" of some kind.

Fair enough, for I feel you are also in the same "box" that the folks who consistently clamor for a cheaper Mac Tower that they can play games on are in - it meets their needs and that's all that really matters. It's called "target fixation".

There is a reason HPTCs are not common. Even when developed and marketed by huge corporations with insane R&D budgets and usability studies like Microsoft (Windows Media Center), they are still too difficult for people who are not computer and Windows/OS X savvy to make use of them.

And that reason is the systems cannot be made "stone simple" like Tivo or a cable/satellite DVR. They require configuration and continual maintenance because they are based on complex hardware and operating system software. And programs like TitanTV run on top of them, so they require end-users to be able to understand and use a computer, period, and not just the application.

What happens when TitanTV crashes and the OS X desktop appears? To quote Ghostbusters, "who the user gonna call?" What happens when Apple slipstreams a fix into the underlying OS and it causes instabilities with TitanTV?

Folks, there is a reason Apple offers Front Row for the Macintosh computer line, as well. It's for people who want to be able to extend the thing to do DVR and DVD and play any video and audio codec, including HD and discrete digital audio. Buy a Mac Mini, replace the DVD player with a Blu-Ray player, add an elgato eyetv 250 plus and go to town. You have the tools and the talent to make it happen. Good for you. Yeah, it costs more, but hey, so does a Mac Pro over an iMac. Capability costs.

But many folks want something simple - even if "castrated" - that always works and when it doesn't, can be made to work again by cycling the power.

And that something is the :apple:tv.

Cleverboy
Jan 14, 2008, 01:24 PM
But many folks want something simple - even if "castrated" - that always works and when it doesn't, can be made to work again by cycling the power.
And that something is the :apple:tv.Well... that's the great irony. I started this thread, and when I said "other than DVR" it was my attempt to exclude the whole DVR argument from this conversation. --You know... because I specifically think there is a lot of potential without one (hence my own recommendations). --So, everything that I've said about DVRs was under the context of "devil's advocate". I'm musing over the fact that I'm not really seeing any serious blockades...but I'm not in the camp that thinks the AppleTV is INCOMPLETE because it doesn't have one. So... we're likely two people on the same side of the fence, having a hypothetical argument. :p

~ CB

Nimiety
Jan 14, 2008, 01:34 PM
Ditto on the better support for 5.1 and USB. Also, I'd be surprised if noone's mentioned: gig-e. Wireless is great, but being able to have a gig switch connecting your itunes to the TV would make syncing up (and streaming) much better. Sweet speed.

Cleverboy
Jan 14, 2008, 01:35 PM
Other than those you asked? It's delightful how you parade being ignorant, and get huffy when someone suggests you use the forum tools to educate yourself. Clever? Uh huh.
If people took five minutes to give themselves a hint at some background knowledge, they'd be much more valuable contributors. Ever thought of trying that? Wow. It's like I haven't been linking to things and quoting from other sources to back up my opinions... no wait, that's YOU. :rolleyes: It's okay, man. You don't know anything and you count on others to make your points. I get it. Keep standing. Or sit down. It's all good. Like I told CWallace, I'm playing devil's advocate at this point. Read the thread title. Read my first post. I'm not saying AppleTV needs a DVR, so don't let my hypotheticals bunch your delicates. :D

~ CB

CWallace
Jan 14, 2008, 02:53 PM
Well... that's the great irony. I started this thread, and when I said "other than DVR" it was my attempt to exclude the whole DVR argument from this conversation.

So... we're likely two people on the same side of the fence, having a hypothetical argument. :p

Excellent point, sir. :) I am indeed guilty of drifting well off-topic. :o

So what I would like to see is HD content (rent and own) via the iTunes Store and discrete multi-channel digital sound.

smilinmonki666
Jan 29, 2008, 10:43 AM
The BluRay/ HD-DVD is a very good choice, I too would agree to that idea. Also the screen on the front of the apple TV (Although, if USB were enabled then there could be a 3rd party product).

I think that a feature that would be good would be a parental feature, if you do have films or TV shows or whatever on your :apple:TV then it would be cool to each have a USB dongle with a login key, which would be password protected for each home user which could be used on all machines to log on with. That way, if my friends come round & want their kids to watch a film, then they log in with there key & any films that are above their age then it doesn't show it? This could be used for music as well, where they can't listen to Explicit music. This would be easy to implement as all Apple needs to do is add in a tab on the "Get Info" section to add in the details on age restriction.

Another idea would be a device that could be used as a music server. Nothing to expensive though. The device could be remote logged in like your wireless router and controlled/setup via the web interface on your Mac. You could then add drives as you need & set it to different raid set's & alike. I know you could use a NAS, but if Apple created something inexpensive and with there history, it would be easy to use, like an iTunes Server app, but you could still have your own directory & use you USBpass to access it via any machine. With wireless becoming more stable for HD over the WiFi it could be suitable, but have this attached to your :apple:TV's & Macs in your home & it would save having to have your Mac on at all times? So when you have a hard day at work, you can turn the :apple:TV on, whilst that loads, pour a beer or a glass of your favourite wine then sit with the lights off & watch your favourite film or TV show, or, put your fav album on that you enjoy relaxing to to in front of the fire. Either way, put your feet & relax...

I think this would make the :apple:TV enjoyable, this way you do not have to worry about having other computers on to enjoy your music, & no USB HDD. Only the DVD type drive.

The only other thing I would then add :eek:, would be TrueHD audio out & the ability to play .vob files direct on my Mac & iMac. This way, films would be copied like for like, not compressed onto my file server. Then, run though my 1Gb network. Then the :apple:TV would have to be 10/100/1000 base network compliant. :D

I know it seems a bit much, but I have a laptop with linux Ubuntu on it, & it plays .vob files direct from the HDD & only boots with my USB key which is too password needed too. I think with the security history of Apple, you can never be to carefull, especially as Apple becomes more popular & thus more prone to virus's.

mrklaw
Jan 29, 2008, 10:53 AM
- streaming from a NAS. seems stupid to need a mac/pc on to stream stuff. With the take 2 update making the apple TV more standalone in nature, they need to embrace that.

- better native codec support. quicktime even has divx/xvid support now, so why restrict appleTV?

- attachable USB devices. Stack a little bluray drive under it like with a mac mini.

- web browser. work in conjunction with the wireless keyboard/mouse. While limited, I'm sure the processor could handle the web pretty well.

- sync to my ipod. let me connect via USB and handle the sync in a completely PC-less environment.

- support for universal remote controls. I'm using remote buddy with a playstation 3 bluetooth remote on my imac upstairs and for slingplayer its much better than the apple remote. Having number keys for searching, better navigation/transport keys etc.

- better visualisations when listenign to music. Have you seen the 'planet' visualiser on PS3? Breathtaking.

Avatar74
Jan 29, 2008, 11:37 AM
http://bp0.blogger.com/_DVemXS6fKCQ/R3kCah-jQpI/AAAAAAAAAA8/8-Fwy6je0M4/s320/appletv_2.0_mr.jpg (http://www.macpredictions.com/2007/12/blu-ray-apple-tv.html)
Screen mirroring and widgets are both great ideas. I also like barijazz's Blu-Ray idea. I'd add a display to the front as well, so you could use one without a TV, to hook up directly to your hifi. Maybe it would look something like the mockup image above.

http://www.macpredictions.com/2007/12/blu-ray-apple-tv.html

This one needs work. Not saying the idea is entirely bunk but as a rule, good industrial design requires that the design be user friendly.

The problem with the picture is that the display is simply too small to convey any useful information to a user. Either the screen needs to be larger or the information needs to be shortened to allow for the text to be larger and readable at a distance.

Even so, there are too many usability problems there. But how many people have a hi-fi without a TV? I would suspect that they're such a small minority in the grand scheme of things that their potential (read: not guaranteed) interest in such a product will not justify the additional expenditure for developing, manufacturing and marketing such a model.

Also, an increase in specificity of function means a decrease in the flexbility of the design.

I suspect that a person with a stereo system that they have in a listening room and not with their home theater, has a considerable amount of disposable income to go spending on such items. There are three possible alternatives I think are all better, and I'm not stating them to one-up you, but to say that you have a good idea but let's ask how it could be even better... here's three examples:

1. 32" VESA-mounted display centered between the front L-R speakers.

2. Mini-monitor at the listening chair, connected by wall-installed wires.

3. Apple-developed iPhone/iPod Touch upgrade to enable the handheld wi-fi device to act as a visual remote control for the AppleTV, e.g. using cover flow and the touch interface to select and queue up songs from any part of your network (including iPhone itself) and stream to your hi-fi.

I think #3 is the winner in terms of Apple's core design goals... flexibility, simplicity, ease of use. The user experience is the most important thing in all the design considerations for these kinds of products, because even 3000 features are only as good as the user interface permits them to be.

pedz
Jan 29, 2008, 11:58 AM
Must Have's:
- Support remote control codes to use separate fast forward and chapter skip buttons (very bad design requiring you to hold the button down)
- Support remote codes for leveraging the number buttons to quickly jump to a letter in a long list (click 5 twice to jump to k), that would be a huge convenience improvement, also for searching.
- support remote code for a home button.
- ability to browse my content by genre.
- Improved fast forward/rewind performance, it is practically unusable now (especially rewind) when streaming, no reason it couldn't work (and I do use a wired connection).
- cover flow browsing of my own content (primarily movies/tv shows, wouldn't do that with music)
- > 24 hours to watch a rental. 48 hours is fine, at least i have the option to watch it over two hours then.
- transfer a rental from one apple tv to another on the same account if i want to move to the bedroom to finish watching something.

Would love to have:
- ability to control music across apple tv's. If I am having a party would love to play a playlist and select the other apple tv's i want playing it, that is the one thing that stops me from considering my music needs served.
Ability to rent on itunes and play on apple tv (there is debate as to whether or not this is going to be supported.) I don't mind not be able to move things from apple tv that i rent on apple tv, but if i want to watch part of a rental at home and the rest on the road i would like to use my tv.
- Favorites list. would love to make a list of my favorite movies that I don't own so i can browse and rent them, ideally would allow me to add things they don't offer. would be a nice way of collecting favorites. Ideally would like to include the list in my move list so when I browse I am browsing things I own and things I like that I may want to rent (if available). This could potentially satisfy my unhealthy desire to collect things.
- Support for more codecs so I have more ripping options, potentially get better usage of the surround soundtrack.

I don't think anything on here is unreasonable, syncing the music I know is difficult but I think it would be an excellent feature.

Peter

Cleverboy
Jan 29, 2008, 01:20 PM
If I could SCREEN MIRROR, I'd be in heaven.

I'd use my Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and control my iMac (display in sleep mode), from my TV, and make my iMac display anything I like. I could start-up a Keynote or Powerpoint presentation, play World of Warcraft (or any game), browse the web on a large screen tv, or just play a DVD from my computer. I mean, I'd like it just to play Netflix Watch-it-Now movies through to my TV. The whole wireless-vga affect would be super useful for people doing presentations.

~ CB

natasha69
Jan 29, 2008, 01:32 PM
USB port - add blue ray / hd - dvd combo player.

millap
Jan 29, 2008, 01:38 PM
Add internet sharing and enable the USB port. Can do away with the AirPort base station as well then.

EvilRob
Jan 29, 2008, 05:58 PM
The 1.1 user interface, with the sources feature intact, but with the 2.0 capabilities for movie rentals and AC3 output.

Totally don't care about Bluetooth keyboards, widgets, web browsers, DVRs, Bluray, warezmonkey codec support or toast-making attachments. If you want X, you know where to find it.

Cleverboy
Jan 29, 2008, 08:39 PM
The 1.1 user interface, with the sources feature intact, but with the 2.0 capabilities for movie rentals and AC3 output.

Totally don't care about Bluetooth keyboards, widgets, web browsers, DVRs, Bluray, warezmonkey codec support or toast-making attachments. If you want X, you know where to find it.It's sounds like you're implying that Apple TV Take 2 removes something that 1.1 has...? I'm pretty sure the "sources" feature is still there... right there under "Settings". It looks like its called "Computers" now. It's not like you're going to be swapping computer sources every hour or anything. If it eliminates clutter and doesn't outright suck, I don't mind interface changes.

YouTube support DESPERATELY needs categories though. It's ANNOYING.

All, Autos & Vehicles, Comedy, Education, Entertainment, Film & Animation, Howto & Style, Music, News & Politics, People & Blogs, Pets & Animals, Science & Technology, Sports, Travel & Events

~ CB

theBB
Jan 29, 2008, 09:12 PM
If I could SCREEN MIRROR, I'd be in heaven. ... I mean, I'd like it just to play Netflix Watch-it-Now movies through to my TV. The whole wireless-vga affect would be super useful for people doing presentations.

You cannot mirror your screen and watch a movie without a huge pipe carrying that uncompressed image data that updates many times every second. Your computer is probably not powerful enough to compress it in real time, either. There is a reason streaming sites use compressed video files. You can try to watch a movie through VNC on a second computer if you want to get a feel for who well it would work. I think your "heaven" is not going to happen any time soon. :)

Cleverboy
Jan 30, 2008, 03:22 AM
You cannot mirror your screen and watch a movie without a huge pipe carrying that uncompressed image data that updates many times every second. Your computer is probably not powerful enough to compress it in real time, either. There is a reason streaming sites use compressed video files. You can try to watch a movie through VNC on a second computer if you want to get a feel for who well it would work. I think your "heaven" is not going to happen any time soon. :)Meh, I can dream. :D No, I've been despising the VNC route for a while. I'd almost prefer a smarter, more interface component-based approach... something that "smartly" reconstructs pages as much as it dumbly sends them over as a large differenced graphic update. For the part of streaming video however, we already have the iChat example where users can "share" a video stream. I believe that stream is simply sent to the other computer verbatim, and core animation is used to reposition it on the viewer's screen. Sure, a DVD would probably be out of order compression wise, but on a local network it might not be entirely untenable (especially if it isn't being accompanied by huge overhead from some badly written VNC implementation).

UPDATE: I forgot to mention that I realize that doing ANYTHING with a DVD stream is far from likely due to DRM and copyright concerns.

~ CB

ascender
Jan 30, 2008, 08:37 AM
A Blu Ray drive. I think that would be a big help in pushing the box as a future-proof device and it would appeal to a lot more people.

ErikAndre
Jan 30, 2008, 08:41 AM
A Blu Ray drive. I think that would be a big help in pushing the box as a future-proof device and it would appeal to a lot more people.

I agree. I would buy it immedietly.

trip1ex
Jan 30, 2008, 09:14 AM
I think they need a new remote. Ipod clickwheel with butttons on it that turn on your TV and switch the inputs. I would think Jobs would want an elegant experience at home and nothing is less elegant than having to grab 2 remotes to watch a show. I want to just pick up one.

A remote the size of the nano (generation 2) would be perfect.

Also it would sweet if you had the ability to use your iPod Touch or iPhone to control the ATV.

BR player? It's never going to happen so why bother talking about that.

I want Apple to give me the ability to redownload the content I purchased with no hassle so I don't have to worry about storing it.

williedigital
Jan 30, 2008, 11:10 AM
"quicktime even has divx/xvid support now, so why restrict appleTV? "

No it doesn't...

The biggest feature for me, by far, is the ability to control the volume using the apple remote. At least make it an option. geez. Search/Sort functionality is supposed to be built into take 2. As long as it's functional, then I'm happy with the device.

barijazz
Jan 30, 2008, 12:02 PM
I'm liking the list so far.


Widgets (Clock, Egg timers, Weather, Stocks, Flight planner, etc)
Safari Web Browser
RSS Reader
Screen Mirroring / Presentation & Parental Monitoring
Web Radio
iTunes WiFi Store /w Podcasts
USB Add-on Drive Integration (DVD,Blu-Ray,HD DVD)
*iPhone/iPod Touch visual remote application


*NEW ONE! I think an application can be created for the iPod/iPhone that gives you a visual remote control with more advanced features. For instance, it let's you JUMP to different sections of Apple TV very easily. Gives you "pinch/zoom" controls on the web browser, let's you "scrub" through videos... dragging the playhead to where you want instead of "FastForwarding", etc.

Ok. I'm seeing the potential. Tre kewl. I'm kind of against it being just a computer connected to the television. I don't think people should be writing e-mails or running Microsoft Word on it or anything. I think its great as a consumer appliance with "extras". The interface is great... as much as possible, I don't think it should force you to do anything you can't comfortably do with the minimalist Apple remote (or iPhone/iPod Touch visual remote application.) :)

Good stuff!

~ CB

Or using the iphone as a two button mouse that automatically hooks up to your computer and/or apple t.v.:D

barijazz
Jan 30, 2008, 12:07 PM
Meh, I can dream. :D No, I've been despising the VNC route for a while. I'd almost prefer a smarter, more interface component-based approach... something that "smartly" reconstructs pages as much as it dumbly sends them over as a large differenced graphic update. For the part of streaming video however, we already have the iChat example where users can "share" a video stream. I believe that stream is simply sent to the other computer verbatim, and core animation is used to reposition it on the viewer's screen. Sure, a DVD would probably be out of order compression wise, but on a local network it might not be entirely untenable (especially if it isn't being accompanied by huge overhead from some badly written VNC implementation).

UPDATE: I forgot to mention that I realize that doing ANYTHING with a DVD stream is far from likely due to DRM and copyright concerns.

~ CB

It would be just like hooking your computer up to your t.v. except with a long wireless cord, and the apple t.v would act like the wire.

barijazz
Jan 30, 2008, 05:47 PM
This one needs work. Not saying the idea is entirely bunk but as a rule, good industrial design requires that the design be user friendly.

The problem with the picture is that the display is simply too small to convey any useful information to a user. Either the screen needs to be larger or the information needs to be shortened to allow for the text to be larger and readable at a distance.

Even so, there are too many usability problems there. But how many people have a hi-fi without a TV? I would suspect that they're such a small minority in the grand scheme of things that their potential (read: not guaranteed) interest in such a product will not justify the additional expenditure for developing, manufacturing and marketing such a model.

Also, an increase in specificity of function means a decrease in the flexbility of the design.

I suspect that a person with a stereo system that they have in a listening room and not with their home theater, has a considerable amount of disposable income to go spending on such items. There are three possible alternatives I think are all better, and I'm not stating them to one-up you, but to say that you have a good idea but let's ask how it could be even better... here's three examples:

1. 32" VESA-mounted display centered between the front L-R speakers.

2. Mini-monitor at the listening chair, connected by wall-installed wires.

3. Apple-developed iPhone/iPod Touch upgrade to enable the handheld wi-fi device to act as a visual remote control for the AppleTV, e.g. using cover flow and the touch interface to select and queue up songs from any part of your network (including iPhone itself) and stream to your hi-fi.

I think #3 is the winner in terms of Apple's core design goals... flexibility, simplicity, ease of use. The user experience is the most important thing in all the design considerations for these kinds of products, because even 3000 features are only as good as the user interface permits them to be.

You could also just hook up your ipod to your stereo system, or use airtunes with a laptop.

pondie84
Jan 30, 2008, 06:19 PM
I certainly don't see the harm in future versions having the possibility to add an external blu-ray/hd-dvd drive there for purchase. Although I doubt I'd ever bother buying one it certainly makes sense to allow people to buy an extra bit of hardware if they want it.

Cleverboy
Jan 30, 2008, 09:05 PM
It would be just like hooking your computer up to your t.v. except with a long wireless cord, and the apple t.v would act like the wire.Exactly. I've been pricing out solutions, and I'm a big fan of consolidation, versus getting some new gizmo. Wireless VGA is pretty pricey. Wireless HDMI is non-existant. If Apple could add this via software, it'd be even better and more handy. Even something that works semi-good is better than nothing at all (for me).

~ CB

theBB
Jan 31, 2008, 01:55 AM
Sure, a DVD would probably be out of order compression wise, but on a local network it might not be entirely untenable (especially if it isn't being accompanied by huge overhead from some badly written VNC implementation).
Even a DVD is already compressed, but its bit rate is quite high. Now, you want your computer to compress its own image on the fly which needs a lot more resolution than 720 by 480 and send it over. Give it up. :) Well, OK, give it up for the next few years. :)

Cleverboy
Jan 31, 2008, 03:46 AM
Even a DVD is already compressed, but its bit rate is quite high. Now, you want your computer to compress its own image on the fly which needs a lot more resolution than 720 by 480 and send it over. Give it up. :) Well, OK, give it up for the next few years. :)Who said the DVD stream would need to be the full 720 x 480 when it goes over (that's what optimization tricks are for)? Reincorporating it into something that could arguably be called a re-broadcast would certainly cross some lines. Unless you're still running a G5, I don't think on-the-fly compression is going to break the CPU bank here, considering its a rather mainstream feature of iChat/Quicklook.

(Look at the forth screenshot...)
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/ichat.html
Put on a photo slideshow, click through a Keynote presentation, or play a movie in full screen, accompanied by a video feed of you hosting while your buddy looks on. In fact, you can show any file on your system that works with Quick Look. If you've ever tried to screencap from Apple's DVD player instead of VLC player, you'll recognize that Apple doesn't seem to have any interest in having users do anything with the DVD playback other than view it.

~ CB

err404
Jan 31, 2008, 04:38 PM
My pipe dream has been to have a Wii type remote so I could just point it at the screen and select what I want. It would also need to function as a traditional remote. I don't always want to be waving my arms around to do things.

I fear that as more and more functionality is moved to the TV by competitors like sony and MS, Apple could fall behind the game in an attempt to keep the interface simple. A change in the input method could help it remain simple to use while adding functionality.

smilinmonki666
Feb 1, 2008, 03:36 AM
I don't think Apple would fall behind, I mean they've never really been infront of the competitors. Which I think is a good thing. There is no point in the large companies trying compete. Apple have there own market. Sony are a games machine manufacturers, MicroSoft are the closest competitor but even they are part of Apple???

Apples interface is simple and easy to use, microsoft are more for the people who can't afford an Apple so go to tescos & buy an all in one pc for 500. The best thing about is that Apple have people wanting to create software for them including MicroSoft. If apple change stuff they could make their products less desirable and more sony & MicroSoft like?