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MacRumors
Dec 30, 2007, 09:56 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

After the initial publishing (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/28/iphone-1-1-3-features-and-screenshots/) of pre-release screenshots of the iPhone 1.1.3 firmware, there have been a couple of videos and details provided further adding to the credibility of the original claims.

Gizmodo provided (http://gizmodo.com/338948/iphone-firmware-113-video-and-confirmation-by-iphone-hacker) a short video demonstrating the movable Home screen icons as well as some notes from Natetrue, an iPhone hacker.

- the firmware installs with a private key that only Apple has at this time
- the update breaks AnySim unlocks
- the update breaks jailbreaking (installing 3rd party applications)
- features listed are reportedly correct

GearLive themselves followed up with a video walkthrough (http://video.gearlive.com/video/article/q407-video-iphone-113-firmware-feature-walkthrough/) (mirror (http://blip.tv/file/569644)) of the iPhone 1.1.3 firmware. GearLive's Andru Edwards specifically addresses accusations that the photos are fake and attempts to prove the authenticity with this video.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/12/30/Picture 45_300.png
(http://video.gearlive.com/video/article/q407-video-iphone-113-firmware-feature-walkthrough/)
Features demoed:

- Drag home screen icons around, into and out of the dock, and onto other pages
- the Firmware crashes once during the demo
- SMS to multiple people
- Google maps Drop Pin, Locate Me (pseudo GPS), Hybrid Map
- Safari Add Bookmark to Homescreen.

Note: several users have noted the "Nate" carrier name on the top-left of the demoed iPhone. This reportedly is a simple network-name custom hack that was preserved after the 1.1.3 update.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/30/more-leaked-iphone-1-1-3-firmware-details-evidence-and-videos/)



Martin C
Dec 30, 2007, 09:58 PM
Awesome! I didn't believe it at first, but now that Gizmodo has given us this, I believe it.

ghall
Dec 30, 2007, 10:01 PM
Now that it's pretty much confirmed to be real, I can't wait until it comes out. :D

onelegtwoshoes
Dec 30, 2007, 10:04 PM
Now all we need is an ETA on the update!

MarkMS
Dec 30, 2007, 10:06 PM
Hopefully, this will make its way to our iPhones on Tuesday! What a way to start the New Year.

I want to be able to record video. C'mon Apple!

Stokkes
Dec 30, 2007, 10:06 PM
Hopefully all the naysayers who were saying this was fake a few days ago will now ****.

Actually, we probably won't hear them, they're off whining about some other thing.

zub3qin
Dec 30, 2007, 10:07 PM
So the questions are obvious:

1) Why is GearLive blatantly posting this video without fear of Apple lawyers, esp after what Thinksecret just went through?
Is Apple in on this?

2) Why has Apple not sent a cease and desist to Gearlive? Other leaks which contained far less in the past were out for 10 minutes before Apple got these sites to pull down the post/video/etc.

3) How is it that Gear Live got this firmware onto their phones? This may be the biggest leak ever from Apple. Anyone remember any other video containing as much info as this does of any previous Apple release of hardware or software? It is not as if iPhone software gets seeded to developers and can make its way online.

So I have to conclude that Apple wanted this leaked and perhaps sent it to Gear Live themselves (maybe they even initially approached MacRumors.com- who knows?). GearLive gets tons of webtraffic and press.... Apple gets.... Well what does Apple get? That is my big question.

Apple could have just released this themselves on apple.com
Apple now loses some "wowness" at Macworld when I suspect this was all to be released.

I don't get it. Anyone have any guesses?

bjett92
Dec 30, 2007, 10:07 PM
This looks like a major upgrade. I really want an iPhone now.

modusop
Dec 30, 2007, 10:08 PM
The Fake carrier name hack DOES require an initial jailbreak so one can see the filesystem. The reason Nate appears in this vid after updating is this: There are 2 "partitions" in the iPhone. One is the root (system) and the other is the user/media partition. Since all preferences (including the pref to turn this on and change the carrier name) are stored in the user partition, it's still there after the update. He'll probably have some issues turning this hack off now though...

ntrigue
Dec 30, 2007, 10:10 PM
I think Apple said F&*% it...give the people what they want. The rumors are so rampant let's switch things up and we'll have free publicity. In the big picture this is one of 30 updates so I can see them willing to experiment by dropping it in the right hands.

cliffjumper68
Dec 30, 2007, 10:10 PM
As for what I use, I think the only updated function that I will use is the locate me pseudo GPS. It is handy when traveling.

MarkMS
Dec 30, 2007, 10:13 PM
This looks like a major upgrade. I really want an iPhone now.

Sadly, this isn't a major upgrade in my opinion. It's a few things that should have been implemented a long time ago. Even the cell tower triangulation wouldn't be considered a major upgrade to me. Having a video recorder, MMS, and some sort of messenger (iChat Mobile?) would be considered a major upgrade.

I guess I'll have to wait until Feb. for anything big to come.

plumbingandtech
Dec 30, 2007, 10:15 PM
Sadly, this isn't a major upgrade in my opinion

Thus the 1.1.3

bjett92
Dec 30, 2007, 10:16 PM
Sadly, this isn't a major upgrade in my opinion. It's a few things that should have been implemented a long time ago. Even the cell tower triangulation wouldn't be considered a major upgrade to me. Having a video recorder, MMS, and some sort of messenger (iChat Mobile?) would be considered a major upgrade.

True, but major as in things that, after the SDK comes out, will cut back on jailbreaking.

MarkMS
Dec 30, 2007, 10:16 PM
Thus the 1.1.3

Exactly!

True, but major as in things that, after the SDK comes out, will cut back on jailbreaking.

Of course, I just can't wait until then! Well I can, but I'm too anxious! :D

slinky0390
Dec 30, 2007, 10:19 PM
what i want to know, and i know this forum does not condone it, but where does one get their hands on 1.1.3, just hypothetically speaking ;).

Sbrocket
Dec 30, 2007, 10:20 PM
True, but major as in things that, after the SDK comes out, will cut back on jailbreaking.

I think the assumption that Apple is going to make the iPhone a completely open platform simply because they release an SDK is a very, very bad assumption to make.

john7jr
Dec 30, 2007, 10:21 PM
This guy is going to be so Nick DePlumed.

sdschwendener
Dec 30, 2007, 10:22 PM
I'm looking foreword to this update. next thing is 3rd party apps you can place where you want.

zub3qin
Dec 30, 2007, 10:22 PM
Gearlive is the hottest Apple rumor site in my opinion.

First they released pics of the new fat iPod Nano prior to its release (all were correct).
Now this.

Either they have the best secret sources inside Apple, or else they are a mouthpiece for Apple.
I haven't figured out which just yet.

Andru Edwards- if you are here still- can you tell us if Apple has contacted you and if not, why aren't you scared of Apple?

Either way, your site rocks lately.

bjett92
Dec 30, 2007, 10:25 PM
I think the assumption that Apple is going to make the iPhone a completely open platform simply because they release an SDK is a very, very bad assumption to make.

I don't think it's going to be completely open because Apple always said security was one of the main reasons they never released an SDK before, but I do think the SDK will open the iPhone to what most developers are wanting.

jer2eydevil88
Dec 30, 2007, 10:29 PM
Looks very exciting!

Anyone got the link for how to perform that carrier name hack? If it isn't locked out I would like to give it a try.

benspratling
Dec 30, 2007, 10:39 PM
Rumors that are true are always incomplete. If this is true, there will be much more.

Do Apple lawyers work on weekends between Christmas and New Year's?

If it's crashing when he drags the icons, then it's not complete. The only main feature that frequently crashes now is Maps, iPod, and Safari... Ok the logic is shot on that one.

Manatee
Dec 30, 2007, 10:40 PM
Ok, I guess the release I really want is 2.0 - with notable and much-needed functionality enhancements. The ability to copy my own photos on and off the iPhone at will - from any computer - would be nice. And saving a picture from a web page would be nice too.

Apple's goal should be for it to do everything that every other smartphone can do. But better. Why is it so hard for them to imagine that this thing has more potential than "a phone with an iPod built in"?

Squire
Dec 30, 2007, 10:41 PM
I wonder if it's the same "Nate" service I have on my 3-year-old Samsung phone (now alarm clock) from Korea. It was/is the name of the mobile Internet service from one of the major carriers. Perhaps that's completely irrelevant.

-Squire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nate

Christian H
Dec 30, 2007, 10:43 PM
2) Why has Apple not sent a cease and desist to Gearlive? Other leaks which contained far less in the past were out for 10 minutes before Apple got these sites to pull down the post/video/etc.


I question the same issue. Apple wouldn't let something like this go in the public eye for very long, let alone a video of it. I'm suspicious of a "private key" being able to unlock the 1.1.3 for those gear live guys. It's clear they have something from Apple, but I really don't think it could be solid evidence of the next firmware update.

arn
Dec 30, 2007, 10:45 PM
First they released pics of the new fat iPod Nano prior to its release (all were correct).

for what it's worth, Gearlive did not post accurate images of the 3rd gen iPod Nano prior to its release. They posted a photoshop'd mockup, based on circulating rumors.

9to5Mac posted the accurate fat iPod nano photos.

arn

MacFly123
Dec 30, 2007, 10:54 PM
Ok, I guess the release I really want is 2.0 - with notable and much-needed functionality enhancements. The ability to copy my own photos on and off the iPhone at will - from any computer - would be nice. And saving a picture from a web page would be nice too.

Me too! I don't think we will see anymore substantial features or applications from Apple till iPhone 2 which will be when Firmware 2.0.0 comes out I bet!

Peace
Dec 30, 2007, 10:58 PM
There's always some extra goodie not reported when these kind of leaks come out.
Apple allows these leaks to cover them up :)

AHDuke99
Dec 30, 2007, 11:22 PM
There's always some extra goodie not reported when these kind of leaks come out.
Apple allows these leaks to cover them up :)

like what? when we found out we got secret international keyboard with our last one! or the double tap period!

iPhoneHome
Dec 30, 2007, 11:33 PM
I believe that Apples PR staff leaked this update in efforts to quiet all of the Ultra Portable Macbook rumors....It was all the rage 4 days ago, and now no one is talking about it at all. Kudos to the PR staff!!

drusoicy
Dec 30, 2007, 11:35 PM
Gearlive is the hottest Apple rumor site in my opinion.

First they released pics of the new fat iPod Nano prior to its release (all were correct).
Now this.

Either they have the best secret sources inside Apple, or else they are a mouthpiece for Apple.
I haven't figured out which just yet.

Andru Edwards- if you are here still- can you tell us if Apple has contacted you and if not, why aren't you scared of Apple?

Either way, your site rocks lately.

Hey thanks for the compliment ;)

Okay so....why are we not scared of Apple? Well...we aren't SCARED. But I think it is very convenient that this is a holiday weekend, and that people are normally off of work, with family, etc. I bet if it were any other time, it would be a different story. If they ask me to take it down, we will - but they haven't yet.

To the guy above who was thinking we may have gotten it directly from Apple - there is something called "journalistic integrity" - we've got that.

synth3tik
Dec 30, 2007, 11:37 PM
I watched the video on go live and am rather impressed. The ability to move icons to another screen tells me that Apple will be releasing new applications, or at least allowing for them.

iVoid
Dec 30, 2007, 11:38 PM
2) Why has Apple not sent a cease and desist to Gearlive? Other leaks which contained far less in the past were out for 10 minutes before Apple got these sites to pull down the post/video/etc.


It's only been a few hours.

It's the weekend.

A holiday weekend.

A holiday weekend between two big holidays.

I assume a good chunk of of Apple employees are off until the 2nd (their Pro tech support was off the entire Thanksgiving week, for instance).

If this was going to be Steve's big MacWorld demo, the lawyers will strike hard. If not, they might not bother (the additional features aren't really that big of a deal that the loss of pre-release secrecy will hurt anything).

drusoicy
Dec 30, 2007, 11:40 PM
for what it's worth, Gearlive did not post accurate images of the 3rd gen iPod Nano prior to its release. They posted a photoshop'd mockup, based on circulating rumors.

9to5Mac posted the accurate fat iPod nano photos.

arn

That is correct. However, we WERE the first site to use the term "iPod nano" way back before the very FIRST one was announced. :)

Peace
Dec 30, 2007, 11:41 PM
like what? when we found out we got secret international keyboard with our last one! or the double tap period!

Well think it through. What's the purpose of being able to move icons around the home screen ?.

chr1s60
Dec 30, 2007, 11:43 PM
The video is pretty convincing. I still would like to see a video of the 1.1.3 shown in the settings section to provide extra proof. Since it appears real, I am wondering how Apple is going to react to all the footage and pics already available. Of course, if real, I would like to know when I can have this update for my phone. If everything ends up being real, this will be the best update so far.

byronchurch
Dec 30, 2007, 11:48 PM
so i guess if there was anything else major you would have found it by now ? Like a search engine ?

drusoicy
Dec 30, 2007, 11:54 PM
so i guess if there was anything else major you would have found it by now ? Like a search engine ?

I'd think so. I haven't found anything else of note. I thought the fact that you can hold down a key on the keyboard and get international chracters to pop up was new - but it's also in 1.1.2.

severe
Dec 30, 2007, 11:57 PM
I'd think so. I haven't found anything else of note. I thought the fact that you can hold down a key on the keyboard and get international chracters to pop up was new - but it's also in 1.1.2.

Thanks a lot for the video, by the way.

iClamp
Dec 31, 2007, 12:00 AM
someone else may have posted this comment, if so sorry..

why does the video only show the movement of the 'mail' and 'calculator' icon? in the original photos that we saw 2 days ago, the only 2 app icons that moved were the 'mail' and 'calculator'.

i am not saying that i don't believe this video.. but it does make me feel skeptical since they are the only 2 icons that move. anyone else notice this?

nickspohn
Dec 31, 2007, 12:01 AM
I can't wait to see what is mentioned at macworld about this.

Andru you are probably going to get called out by Steve himself :)

drusoicy
Dec 31, 2007, 12:03 AM
someone else may have posted this comment, if so sorry..

why does the video only show the movement of the 'mail' and 'calculator' icon? in the original photos that we saw 2 days ago, the only 2 app icons that moved were the 'mail' and 'calculator'.

i am not saying that i don't believe this video.. but it does make me feel skeptical since they are the only 2 icons that move. anyone else notice this?

Dude are you serious? It's a coincidence. Did you see the other apps? You can't EDIT the Maps app. or the SMS app. Even if you didnt believe the home screen stuff, you cant fake the apps. Jeez.

MarkMS
Dec 31, 2007, 12:09 AM
Dude are you serious? It's a coincidence. Did you see the other apps? You can't EDIT the Maps app. or the SMS app. Even if you didnt believe the home screen stuff, you cant fake the apps. Jeez.

Seems true, but like everything else I won't accept it as 100% real until I see it on my iPhone. Anyway, thanks Andru (drusoicy) for the pics and the video tutorial of the new features.

By the way, has Apple contacted you yet? I know it's the weekend between to big holiday events, but I'm just wondering.

byronchurch
Dec 31, 2007, 12:14 AM
Thanks a heap for giving life to a long News lull ! I have definitely logged on to your rss feeds good luck !

nostaws
Dec 31, 2007, 12:21 AM
I thought he did a pretty good job, I enjoyed the video clip (although the monologue at the beginning went on a little long).

I watched the walt mosberg review of the dell, and I didn't realize that guy is so freakin' boring. I had only read his stuff.

About the phone. I thought the "flip up page" revealing options in google maps was awesome! It is hard to have buttons and preferences on a screen so small, I though that was pretty intuitive.

[G5]Hydra
Dec 31, 2007, 12:22 AM
Even if you didnt believe the home screen stuff, you cant fake the apps. Jeez.

Thats not true at all. You could have a secret lair underneath your HQ where you employ an army of elves who work on knocking off Apple products and replicating the software for your own evil ends... JK. I do wonder why people want to boast about it being fake as if there is some bounty they can claim for calling it so. Just in case there is I am calling it fake too. ;) The only thing that really has me curious is the whole 1.1.3 thing, you'd think with all the new updates, especially the paradigm shift in the Home screen, they might bump it to a round 1.2 revision number. I do realize Apple already put the underpinnings into the OS for multiple Home screens but actually implementing it into the GUI is huge IMHO.

I just want to say thanks to you drusoicy for all the work on the photos and videos and I hope this doesn't turn out to be a bit of a canary trap for your source who obviously has some pretty intimate access to some cool stuff.

InkMaster
Dec 31, 2007, 12:48 AM
Thus the 1.1.3

Then why the hell did we have to wait for months for something so insignificant - could they not release it few weeks after 1.1.2 :/

ventro
Dec 31, 2007, 12:55 AM
Hi drusoicy, thanks for the video! It's pretty obvious this isn't a fake. Love that map flipup animation!

Anyway, can you tell us if there is any 802.1X (WPA-Enterprise) support in this update?

ntrigue
Dec 31, 2007, 01:05 AM
someone else may have posted this comment, if so sorry..

why does the video only show the movement of the 'mail' and 'calculator' icon? in the original photos that we saw 2 days ago, the only 2 app icons that moved were the 'mail' and 'calculator'.

i am not saying that i don't believe this video.. but it does make me feel skeptical since they are the only 2 icons that move. anyone else notice this?

Moving? How about every app on the screen shaking? Its unbelievable that people are fighting live video. LMAO

nickspohn
Dec 31, 2007, 01:09 AM
Then why the hell did we have to wait for months for something so insignificant - could they not release it few weeks after 1.1.2 :/

Would you rather have a sloppy SDK to work with come Febuary or an update like this a month ago.

czeluff
Dec 31, 2007, 01:16 AM
Proof the video is fake!!!!

http://video.gearlive.com/video/article/q407-video-iphone-113-firmware-feature-walkthrough/

Watch the iphone clock at 6 minutes and 5 seconds into the video.

cz

elgruga
Dec 31, 2007, 01:19 AM
If this fat dude works for Apple, he sure hasn't gotten enough money to fix his teeth yet.

Nasty and not even accurate - my girlfriend says he's cute!
Take your crap out a here, buddy.

I think its a great upgrade.
Is it major? Well, its pretty good - the bit where the screen rolls up at one side shows how frickin far AHEAD Apple are with their cool software.

Wouldnt mind getting it - the multi-text messages I can use, and the map pin thing.
The book marks on the page (I would put 'em on the second or third page) is very tasty.

I wonder how many pages you can have?

BTW, the app that allows you to re-name your 'wireless provider' is called 'Make it Mine' and its available with installer.app.
Written by Erica Sadun of TUAW.
You can put your name there or your dog's name or something....

rendezvouscp
Dec 31, 2007, 01:22 AM
Proof the video is fake!!!!

http://video.gearlive.com/video/article/q407-video-iphone-113-firmware-feature-walkthrough/

Watch the iphone clock at 6 minutes and 5 seconds into the video.

cz

Just because the video skips doesn't mean it's fake. It also skipped when he selected contacts for his SMS (probably to keep his contacts private).
-Chasen

twoodcc
Dec 31, 2007, 01:30 AM
pretty cool, but still want video capture

igazza
Dec 31, 2007, 01:36 AM
iphone is truly amazing but i dont even have one

lazyrighteye
Dec 31, 2007, 01:37 AM
Best.
Update.
Yet.

Bring it.

Idle
Dec 31, 2007, 01:37 AM
Proof the video is fake!!!!

http://video.gearlive.com/video/article/q407-video-iphone-113-firmware-feature-walkthrough/

Watch the iphone clock at 6 minutes and 5 seconds into the video.

cz
Or maybe he had a phone call at 6 minutes and 10 seconds into the video and he had to edit it out? Or is that a little too far-fetched?

tWoSour
Dec 31, 2007, 01:38 AM
does the update stop iToner from working?

chumsdock
Dec 31, 2007, 01:49 AM
We still have the GarageBand Ringtone Exporting, it ain't a big problem.

ipoddin
Dec 31, 2007, 02:01 AM
Best.
Update.
Yet.

Bring it.

That's pretty sad.

This update is underwhelming to me. Not a single feature here that gets me excited.

philgilder
Dec 31, 2007, 02:47 AM
That's pretty sad.

This update is underwhelming to me. Not a single feature here that gets me excited.
not really. it is the biggest update so far, maybe it just doesnt do what you want or need it to do...
you'd think with all the new updates, especially the paradigm shift in the Home screen, they might bump it to a round 1.2 revision number.
i think maybe around the time of macworld we'll see 1.2. i think this is to be released before then...

appleguru1
Dec 31, 2007, 03:02 AM
I wont be upgrading until a jailbreak for this comes out... Navizon will hold me over on the "locate me" feature ;)

Still waiting on WPA2 Enterprise (802.11x auth) wifi support as well as re-routable directions in google maps... Give me those, the ability to download things from the web, and the ability to cache specific map regions for offline viewing and I'll be happy.. for now ;)

MacFly123
Dec 31, 2007, 03:11 AM
Or maybe he had a phone call at 6 minutes and 10 seconds into the video and he had to edit it out? Or is that a little too far-fetched?

I noticed that when I watched but I didn't even think twice because it was OBVIOUS that he edited out his contacts and personal info, DUH :rolleyes:

netdog
Dec 31, 2007, 03:13 AM
Now all we need is an ETA on the update!

MacWorld. January 15.

poppe
Dec 31, 2007, 03:31 AM
I know everyone says this is real now, but I still just have a feeling of fake... perhaps its just me...

philgilder
Dec 31, 2007, 03:37 AM
anyone else notice that when he was searching 'gearlive' at the end, gunpowder came up???
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/philgilder/Picture3.png
;) :eek:

dalvin200
Dec 31, 2007, 03:38 AM
anyone else notice that when he was searching 'gearlive' at the end, gunpowder came up???

;) :eek:

lol!! i did notice that and too thought WTF :eek:

thats nice
Dec 31, 2007, 03:44 AM
i'm only interested if safari is snappier.

dalvin200
Dec 31, 2007, 03:45 AM
I wont be upgrading until a jailbreak for this comes out...


yep.. me too..
i'm still on 1.1.1 and i already have mms working, forward sms with iSMS, re-arranging icon order with customize and multiple pages of apps on the Home screens...
plus i have games and a calendar/address book search (like spotlight)...

1.1.3 doesn't really add much extra value to me.. gmaps triangulation.. meh...
i can read a street sign and put that in gmaps to find where i am :)

what i want to know is, Apple have added the paging of the home screen, but why do that now when there aren't even enough apps for more than 1 screen?
i know the SDK is out in feb, so why not release the paging then?
unless there are some more apps to be released from now till end of feb?

i was very hasty about installing summerboard and customize etc.. on my iPhone, but to be honest, i don't think i could go back to the standard Apple way now..

cbrain
Dec 31, 2007, 03:51 AM
Hi,

This update looks very good and I really hope there is a similar one for the iPod Touch.

Now that I have seen this video, I have very few doubts left.

modul8tr
Dec 31, 2007, 03:55 AM
what i want to know is, Apple have added the paging of the home screen, but why do that now when there aren't even enough apps for more than 1 screen?
i know the SDK is out in feb, so why not release the paging then?
unless there are some more apps to be released from now till end of feb?


If there are no new apps by Macworld, I would assume paging of the home screen is for web bookmarks.

cbrain
Dec 31, 2007, 04:03 AM
If there are no new apps by Macworld, I would assume paging of the home screen is for web bookmarks.

I think we could see some new Widgets; such as "ESPN", "Ski Report" and "Movies".

I could be wrong though.

oxeneers
Dec 31, 2007, 04:16 AM
Nasty and not even accurate - my girlfriend says he's cute!
Take your crap out a here, buddy.
.

It's my personal opinion, .... welcome to the internet. And message boards, for that matter.

MacsAttack
Dec 31, 2007, 04:53 AM
Then why the hell did we have to wait for months for something so insignificant - could they not release it few weeks after 1.1.2 :/

Some wild guesses?

1. There are bug fixes in there that are not apparent from what has been shown here?

2. Perhaps Apple pulled developers off the iPhone to work on Leopard 10.5.2?

3. They were putting the underpinnings for the SDK in place - and until the SDK was firmed up they could not finalize them (egg-chicken-chicken-egg). Speculation is that 1.2 would support the SDK, but I don't think that has been stated officially. Has it? Linky anyone?

4. Only a moron puts out an update over the Christmas period. There will be more than enough support calls to deal with.

5. 1.1.3 may be a stillborn update that is never going to be released (but has leaked). With the SDK so close, if 1.2 update is required, then rolling out 1.1.3 only a handful of weeks before looks a little pointless. Perhaps it was supposed to be released earlier, but some problem delayed it and they missed their window of opportunity (see point 4)?

6. Possibly 1.1.3 was almost ready to roll, but the new hacks exposed another security hole, so the release was delayed while it was fixed - with the result that the window of opportunity was missed (see point 4)?

7. Apple could be about to launch a pad-like device and this version of their mobile OS is the one to power it - much like the new MacBook Pros and Mac Pro expected in a couple of weeks will be supported by 10.5.2 - which will be released at the same time?

dopeytree
Dec 31, 2007, 04:55 AM
It's my personal opinion, .... welcome to the internet. And message boards, for that matter.

Nothing that great here: No disk mode OR copy & paste OR New apps OR ability to save/upload images/downloads etc

In my opinion all they've done is allow you to do what jailbreaking has from the begining. With the triangulation available on certain websites already

I await a big useful update!

Ps this is posted on my iPhone :)

sdschwendener
Dec 31, 2007, 05:06 AM
It's my personal opinion, .... welcome to the internet. And message boards, for that matter.


I agree with elgruga. Take your crap outta here. Why are you welcoming people who registered six years before you?



This software is straight up sexy. I cannot wait to install it when it becomes available. I love the way you get to take your icon from the web. Also.. did I miss it? How can I change pages on my home screen while the icons are not wiggling? Please apple, let us choose the dock and home-screen wallpaper right in itunes! yeah I know it's a stretch

EagerDragon
Dec 31, 2007, 05:18 AM
Looking forward to those iBricks for my brick wall out back.

Looks like some people will not be able to upgrade to 1.1.3 and that maybe a requirement (just a guess) for interaction with new hardware / software coming in Jan.

Starting to look like some unlocked phones maybe left behind "permanently" very soon.

Project
Dec 31, 2007, 05:27 AM
People whinging on this board after every update - getting boring.

This is a nice update. Prepares the ground for February.

BRussell
Dec 31, 2007, 06:01 AM
Also.. did I miss it? How can I change pages on my home screen while the icons are not wiggling? My guess is that you just "flick."

psychofreak
Dec 31, 2007, 06:12 AM
My guess is that you just "flick."

You do, we know that from Jailbroken phones...

zedsdead
Dec 31, 2007, 06:58 AM
for what it's worth, Gearlive did not post accurate images of the 3rd gen iPod Nano prior to its release. They posted a photoshop'd mockup, based on circulating rumors.

9to5Mac posted the accurate fat iPod nano photos.

arn

9to5 has been the best source of rumors lately, and they are saying that there is a new Touchpad on the notebooks....I place the most faith in that rumor because of their recent track record (they also got the iMacs correct).

ppdix
Dec 31, 2007, 07:04 AM
Before the iPhone I owned the Europe and Asia only Nokia 7710 for 2 years:
Full hi-res touch screen with moveable and resizable icons, video, 1.3MP camera, a REAL browser with Flash, Cookies, Security and EDGE.
I can't believe that people are going crazy over moving stupid icons! :mad:, technology that has been around since the Sony P800 4 years ago!
Apple should be giving me real reasons to get out of my Jailbroken 1.1.1
No video, no Flash on Safari, no copy and paste... Forget 1.1.3! I am sticking with my 1.1.1 that has hundreds of really useful Apps, games, utilities and about 20 fully customizable themes and sounds. Why should I switch to a crappier system? :cool:

People whinging on this board after every update - getting boring.

This is a nice update. Prepares the ground for February.

This is a sorry update. Apple is interested in taking our money with crap like the iTunes store instead of addressing real issues like Flash, copy and paste and video recording...

zedsdead
Dec 31, 2007, 07:11 AM
This is a sorry update. Apple is interested in taking our money with crap like the iTunes store instead of addressing real issues like Flash, copy and paste and video recording...

Don't crucify Apple just yet...this update was not released. There is a good chance that it is part of a 1.2 update that will be unveiled at macworld. I agree with some of the others that it was supposed to be released earlier, but wasn't ready.

I agree with you that many features like copy/past, video, to-do-lists, among others should be added and added soon. Apple does owe us at least one decent new app.

Popeye206
Dec 31, 2007, 07:38 AM
it's so funny when people complain about updates... it's never enough! My goodness! This looks cool... not everything I want either, but I'm sure over time we'll get what we want plus some... Apple generally comes through in the long run.... in the mean time, I'm excited about what is coming! Looks good!

phillipjfry
Dec 31, 2007, 07:39 AM
I'm thinking that apple is only going to harden the platform of the iPhone and allow developers to do the dirty work on giving peeps what they are asking for (eg copy/past, video, street view on gmaps *crosses fingers*)
I do hope for flash in iPhone v2 since some of the webpages I've grown fond of have flash on their websites.

Project
Dec 31, 2007, 07:41 AM
This is a sorry update. Apple is interested in taking our money with crap like the iTunes store instead of addressing real issues like Flash, copy and paste and video recording...

One mans trash is another mans treasure.

I personally couldn't care less about flash. The only time its really been apparent for me are for YouTube links that haven't been encoded to h264. An SDK is 1000% times more important for me because it should let developers plug in lots of the gaps that Apple has missed out on.

blipstutter
Dec 31, 2007, 07:42 AM
Where are the fixes for previous features that don't work though?
Like say, I don't know, the ability to turn the key lock slider off completely? That's just a basic standard feature, and if they don't have that working right, they shouldn't be implementing faux gps.

emotion
Dec 31, 2007, 08:04 AM
Sheesh. Here come the whiners. Patience people, patience.


I wonder if that google maps update will be available on Euro phones? We seem to get less functionality already from Google on iPhones.

revenantananias
Dec 31, 2007, 09:27 AM
i would like to see them, in a video, go into settings and show that it is in fact 1.1.3. then i will believe it.

Consultant
Dec 31, 2007, 09:32 AM
This is a sorry update. Apple is interested in taking our money with crap like the iTunes store instead of addressing real issues like Flash, copy and paste and video recording...

iTunes store is the most popular digital music store because it's the best, not crap.

You do not have to buy anything from the iTunes store if you don't want to. No one is forcing you.
Just because you do not WANT (or cannot afford) to pay for music doesn't mean it's crap.
What do you think if you do your work, and people say, oh it's crap, we are not paying you?

I do not miss flash on the iPhone at all. No annoying blinking flash ads for me = worth it.

plumbingandtech
Dec 31, 2007, 09:33 AM
real issues like Flash, ....and video recording...

Real issues?

Good one.

unity
Dec 31, 2007, 09:45 AM
Real issues?

Good one.

Right on.


Issues? I need no Flash and I need no recording. This may be missing features, but they are not issues.

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 10:01 AM
Hydra;4676089']I just want to say thanks to you drusoicy for all the work on the photos and videos and I hope this doesn't turn out to be a bit of a canary trap for your source who obviously has some pretty intimate access to some cool stuff.Indeed. The canary trap would have been if the video had actually showed the build number on the about page, even though that would have been little indication of "proof", as the actual build number would have meant nothing to anyone else accept Apple.

~ CB

Hattig
Dec 31, 2007, 10:05 AM
i would like to see them, in a video, go into settings and show that it is in fact 1.1.3. then i will believe it.

It would prove nothing. The version number and build are in a properties file that is easily editable if you have SSH on your iPhone.

I think that the video showing My Location in Google Maps and multiple SMS recipients is enough proof to anybody of upcoming functionality in the iPhone firmware, whether it is called 1.1.3 or 1.2 or 2.0 by the time it is released.

I think 1.1.3 will be an early January release, once bugs are fixed, and 1.2 will be the SDK release version and may not have many new features in itself, just a stabilised API that all the apps will be using, and maybe cut/copy/paste of text in OS-provided GUI elements like textboxes and textareas, etc. I can see third-party applications needing that functionality even if Apple could get away with not having it in their own apps.

megfilmworks
Dec 31, 2007, 10:10 AM
yep.. me too..
i'm still on 1.1.1 and i already have mms working, forward sms with iSMS, re-arranging icon order with customize and multiple pages of apps on the Home screens...
plus i have games and a calendar/address book search (like spotlight)...
What hacked apps do you use to keep Safari from crashing in 1.1.1?
Or to keep your phone secure and stable? I can't imagine having 1.1.1 with the basic improvement in speed and stability offered by updates. Been there, done that!

bluedevil14
Dec 31, 2007, 10:12 AM
i hope this was just a mistake and apple is still going to retain their idea of sercretiveness, i always liked that about them, it makes the rumors scence so much more fun.

gifford
Dec 31, 2007, 10:28 AM
I believe that Apples PR staff leaked this update in efforts to quiet all of the Ultra Portable Macbook rumors....It was all the rage 4 days ago, and now no one is talking about it at all. Kudos to the PR staff!!

sounds about right, I'm suspecting similar.

bluedoggiant
Dec 31, 2007, 10:37 AM
after all this comparion between a w580i and an iphone, i went with my sony ericsson w580i, all this just takes me back in my tracks, either way, very happy with my phone, very attractive and sexy, turns a lot of heads, get a lot of complements on it:D.

babalou
Dec 31, 2007, 10:45 AM
Ok, So I'm ready to update my phone already Apple. Lets go!

Otaviano
Dec 31, 2007, 10:57 AM
Looking forward to those iBricks for my brick wall out back.

Looks like some people will not be able to upgrade to 1.1.3 and that maybe a requirement (just a guess) for interaction with new hardware / software coming in Jan.

Starting to look like some unlocked phones maybe left behind "permanently" very soon.

So long as the demand remains high for unlocked phones then people will find away. The new TurboSIM methods are actually a blessing in disguise as they don't even modify anything on the phone, simply trick it into believing it has a valid AT&T SIM card. Even if Apple targets the TurboSIM solution, the chip is programable and can be programmed to display whatever new information Apple is looking for.

People want unlocked phones, Apple should just accept it and cater to the market. They can keep trying, but in all honesty I don't believe they will be able to stop it. All this talk of bricks is a bit in correct, because it's be possible to restore iPhones to their original state and then apply newer unlocking methods. Also as I already mentioned the newest solutions have gone a step further and removed the need to modify the phone's baseband. Thus greatly removing risks to the people that wish for unlocked phones.

Mitch1984
Dec 31, 2007, 11:03 AM
OK I believe this now, but why do the icons default to the left when he takes his finger off the app (when moving it) when on the current firmware the icons go from right to left (see iTunes WiFi Store).

mainstreetmark
Dec 31, 2007, 11:03 AM
What a strange interface. The "Wiggly Icons"? I assumed by the description that the icon you selected would start wiggling, meaning It was the one being moved. Instead, everything wiggles? I'm not sure I like the wiggling, but I certainly like the ability it claims to offer. I can finally get "Stocks" out of there, and Wikipedia/Wunderground ON there.

And to all the people calling this a crappy update. Please, do us all a favor and learn to program, download the SDK and fill in all the "missing features", since this is (apparently) such a terrible backwards phone.

OK I believe this now, but why do the icons default to the left when he takes his finger off the app (when moving it) when on the current firmware the icons go from right to left (see iTunes WiFi Store).

That one always felt uncomfortable to me. We live in a western society over here and read from left to right. Silly Store. The other thing that bothered me, pre-iTunesStore, was why they didn't 4 rows of 3, instead of 3 rows of 4.

Peace
Dec 31, 2007, 11:05 AM
OK I believe this now, but why do the icons default to the left when he takes his finger off the app (when moving it) when on the current firmware the icons go from right to left (see iTunes WiFi Store).


I'm guessing it defaults to the left because there are multiple home screens.Just like the current apps like weather go from left to right.

plumbingandtech
Dec 31, 2007, 11:05 AM
People want unlocked phones, Apple should just accept it and cater to the market.

The fact that the iphone is tied to ATT is no secret. Maybe people should just accept it and either switch to ATT or not, Apple has run the numbers a million more times then you or I and has decided this is the path to better profitably and long term sustainability.

People need to "accept" that this phone will be (in the states) be tied to ATT for many more years to come.

tomd89
Dec 31, 2007, 11:19 AM
The iTunes Store on the present firmware is located on the right so that it is close to the iPod icon, not because if there were more icons they could stack from the right.

lamar777
Dec 31, 2007, 11:20 AM
what i want to know is, Apple have added the paging of the home screen, but why do that now when there aren't even enough apps for more than 1 screen?
i know the SDK is out in feb, so why not release the paging then?
unless there are some more apps to be released from now till end of feb?

i was very hasty about installing summerboard and customize etc.. on my iPhone, but to be honest, i don't think i could go back to the standard Apple way now..

Thats an easy one with how simple it looks to make an icon bookmark. I think that it would also be very easy for apple to create a preference pane in iTunes that, much like customize, allows users to decide which widgets they want to be active on their phone. I believe new widgets are coming and that the only reason I have been forced up until now to have "Stocks" is because apple wanted my iPhone to look like all other iPhones. With bookmark icons and possible new widgets the standard home screen is done with.

Virgil-TB2
Dec 31, 2007, 11:23 AM
So the questions are obvious:

1) Why is GearLive blatantly posting this video without fear of Apple lawyers, esp after what Thinksecret just went through?
Is Apple in on this?

2) Why has Apple not sent a cease and desist to Gearlive? Other leaks which contained far less in the past were out for 10 minutes before Apple got these sites to pull down the post/video/etc.

3) How is it that Gear Live got this firmware onto their phones? This may be the biggest leak ever from Apple. Anyone remember any other video containing as much info as this does of any previous Apple release of hardware or software? It is not as if iPhone software gets seeded to developers and can make its way online.

So I have to conclude that Apple wanted this leaked and perhaps sent it to Gear Live themselves (maybe they even initially approached MacRumors.com- who knows?). GearLive gets tons of webtraffic and press.... Apple gets.... Well what does Apple get? That is my big question.

Apple could have just released this themselves on apple.com
Apple now loses some "wowness" at Macworld when I suspect this was all to be released.

I don't get it. Anyone have any guesses?My guess is that this is an intentional leak on Apple's part and that they are merely watching to see how the firmware spreads in the hacker community, who gives it to who etc. If I was them I would put something in it so that adoption of it can be easily tracked. Remember that the 1.1.2 firmware came into people's hands in a similar but seemingly less deliberate way, so they let it go more deliberately this time in order to figure out which guy in what office is responsible at Apple.

Let's face it, GearLive is a fairly obscure site. Certainly not mainstream. Why would *they* get the firmware unless it was given to them directly from "a friend" at Apple.

Think about it. If Apple the company, was saying to it's employees (with a wink) "Hey, we won't care if you let your friends in on this release," then all the bigger rumour sites with the large readerships who *also* have friends at Apple would *also* have it. There is no way this is a sanctioned release, even a "wink, wink nudge, nudge" one. Seems to me this is definitely someone breaking their NDA.

If I was to go deep into "wild guess" country, I would think that since GearLive is based in Seattle of all places, that maybe a former Microsoft employee who is a friend of someone at GearLive recently got a job at Apple and doesn't realise what a despicable act this is.

The only thing certain is that if and when the leaker is identified and fired, that all kinds of hilarious, illogical mock outrage from similar morality-disabled people will spread throughout the hacker forums. ;)

lamar777
Dec 31, 2007, 11:26 AM
The one thing that seemed fishy to me was when in the video he moves an icon to a second page you can clearly see that there are 3 possible pages (3 dots at the bottom), so either there are just 3 total possible pages with this update or on that third page Nate has installer and all of the other apps that he wants nobody to see.

diamond.g
Dec 31, 2007, 11:29 AM
The one thing that seemed fishy to me was when in the video he moves an icon to a second page you can clearly see that there are 3 possible pages (3 dots at the bottom), so either there are just 3 total possible pages with this update or on that third page Nate has installer and all of the other apps that he wants nobody to see.

It added the third dot after he moved an icon over to the 2nd page. There were only 2 dots before. What struck me as odd is how unstable it was. Crashing when moving icons is not a good thing...

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 11:29 AM
The fact that the iphone is tied to ATT is no secret. Maybe people should just accept it and either switch to ATT or not, Apple has run the numbers a million more times then you or I and has decided this is the path to better profitably and long term sustainability.

People need to "accept" that this phone will be (in the states) be tied to ATT for many more years to come.Amen and amen.

~ CB

Otaviano
Dec 31, 2007, 11:30 AM
The fact that the iphone is tied to ATT is no secret. Maybe people should just accept it and either switch to ATT or not, Apple has run the numbers a million more times then you or I and has decided this is the path to better profitably and long term sustainability.

People need to "accept" that this phone will be (in the states) be tied to ATT for many more years to come.

First of all I don't live in the United States so I could care less about AT&T. The fact of the mater is Apple wants to cater to a global market. While in the United States people purchase phones directly from retail stores owner by carriers, or partnered with carriers, this is not the same in the rest of the world.

Walk into any electronics store in Europe and Asia and you purchase a phone and insert any SIM card your heart desires.

Now I don't want to turn this into another discussion about the decision to sell locked phones, however one should consider that the demand for unlocked phones is so enormous that it's lead to not only a bunch of software hacks, but also the development and programming of chips that slide over your SIM card and fool the phone into believing it has an AT&T SIM card.

The notion that Apple can prevent this is very foolish in my opinion, because so long as there is a demand, then people will cater to it. Look at the eBay prices for TurboSIM and you'll see a lot of people are making serious money on it. I know that I've unlocked my iPhone and will never accept a locked version. I travel for work and want the freedom to inset local SIM cards into it. I might have to be a bit careful about updating both iTunes and the phone, but I'm confident that solutions will quickly emerge. After-all I'm running 1.1.2 (new bootloader and all) without problems.

I can even go as far as saying that I understand the initial AT&T agreement. Entering the cell phone industry was a major gamble for it. However Apple could have been smarter and released the phone without partners in the rest of the world. They would have cleaned up over Christmas, and the pathetic state of the dollar would have discouraged to many people from buying it overseas. Not to mention it would be an easier battle to reform the cellular industry in America than reforming it in the entire world.

Mitch1984
Dec 31, 2007, 11:30 AM
Maybe apple leaked it to him on purpose to test it's hackability, then revise the code and release it.

Project
Dec 31, 2007, 11:37 AM
I think the wobbly thing and the way you can rearrange icons is quite genius actually.

No doubt haters will write it off as style over substance.

Mitch1984
Dec 31, 2007, 11:49 AM
OK slightly off topic but, can anyone tell me if it's safe or if there's any reason not to put my AdSense for Content Number into the GearLive forum registration page?

I love the wiggling, it's cute.
I also like that the iTunes WiFi App is on the right hand side, it's different and almost iconic. (No pun intended)

Maybe NateTrue is a sacked/former apple employee.

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 11:50 AM
First of all I don't live in the United States so I could care less about AT&T. The fact of the mater is Apple wants to cater to a global market.Until Apple brings the iPhone to your country, then they're not bringing it to your country yet. It's like when Windows users started hacking around to get the original iPod to work with Windows. It's technically possible, clearly Apple didn't mind the extra sales, but you can expect them to support any changes you make to the device and then wonder why it stops working or has problems with firmware updates. I think its totally cool if someone tries to unify and take on all "unsupported" Apple customers who want to buy phones and not use Apple's exclusive partners. Facts are facts though, it's just not going to be Apple... at least not yet.

If I wanted an iPhone so bad, I decided to unlock it and hack it... I wouldn't post in threads about new features about how I'm unlocked, and I won't upgrade until its hacked. I'd post in the "Is it hacked yet?" thread, and hope that my crowd has made progress so I can use my hacked iPhone like supported customers do. I might even write Apple regularly complaining. Maybe make a petition. Ultimately, its MY phone, but support is Apple's choice. Not really two ways about it.
Now I don't want to turn this into another discussion about the decision to sell locked phones, however---BUT YOU ARE. OFF TOPIC. I mean... honestly. I wish "new feature" topics would remain about new feature topics, and not have rants by people who want Apple to support them. It's not fair to people who actually want to discuss... gasp... new features.

~ CB

philgilder
Dec 31, 2007, 12:06 PM
It added the third dot after he moved an icon over to the 2nd page. There were only 2 dots before. What struck me as odd is how unstable it was. Crashing when moving icons is not a good thing...
thats why it hasnt been made publicly available
anyway, safari and ipod still crash all the time...

notsofatjames
Dec 31, 2007, 12:10 PM
what was the change between 1.0.* and 1.1.0?
This seems like a major-ish upgrade for the iPhone to me. MultiSMS and map triangulation aren't just bug fixes or enhancements/optimizations. They're entirely new features. To some people they may not be that important, but they are new features none the less.

Random Ping
Dec 31, 2007, 12:12 PM
2) Why has Apple not sent a cease and desist to Gearlive?

I am going with the "It happened during a major holiday" explanation.

Random Ping
Dec 31, 2007, 12:20 PM
This update is underwhelming to me. Not a single feature here that gets me excited.

Excitement is in the eye of the beholder. I personally like the integration of location identification and traffic status on Google Maps. I also like personalizing the dock and how they are making room for many more application icons. Likewise, being able to rearrange icons lets you move the most frequently accessed ones to the initial view. This becomes more important as icons for web pages, web applications, and native 3rd party applications start to populate people's iPhone display.

Personally, I think there will be several new 3rd party applications announced on Jan 15, and I think this update is largely about getting ready to have you download what you want to your iPhone.

lazyrighteye
Dec 31, 2007, 12:20 PM
Best.
Update.
Yet.

Bring it.

That's pretty sad.

This update is underwhelming to me. Not a single feature here that gets me excited.

Please name an iPhone update you thought was better.

plumbingandtech
Dec 31, 2007, 12:20 PM
First of all I don't live in the United States so I could care less about AT&T. The fact of the mater is Apple wants to cater to a global market. While in the United States people purchase phones directly from retail stores owner by carriers, or partnered with carriers, this is not the same in the rest of the world.

Walk into any electronics store in Europe and Asia and you purchase a phone and insert any SIM card your heart desires.

Now I don't want to turn this into another discussion about the decision to sell locked phones, however one should consider that the demand for unlocked phones is so enormous that it's lead to not only a bunch of software hacks, but also the development and programming of chips that slide over your SIM card and fool the phone into believing it has an AT&T SIM card.

The notion that Apple can prevent this is very foolish in my opinion, because so long as there is a demand, then people will cater to it. Look at the eBay prices for TurboSIM and you'll see a lot of people are making serious money on it. I know that I've unlocked my iPhone and will never accept a locked version. I travel for work and want the freedom to inset local SIM cards into it. I might have to be a bit careful about updating both iTunes and the phone, but I'm confident that solutions will quickly emerge. After-all I'm running 1.1.2 (new bootloader and all) without problems.

I can even go as far as saying that I understand the initial AT&T agreement. Entering the cell phone industry was a major gamble for it. However Apple could have been smarter and released the phone without partners in the rest of the world. They would have cleaned up over Christmas, and the pathetic state of the dollar would have discouraged to many people from buying it overseas. Not to mention it would be an easier battle to reform the cellular industry in America than reforming it in the entire world.

A) That's why I mentioned "in the states" I can care less about your market.

b) Run the numbers, you do have access to those right?, post them, and then show us why apple should have gone that way you mentioned.

thechidz
Dec 31, 2007, 12:29 PM
I wont be updating, I need to tether

cmaier
Dec 31, 2007, 12:31 PM
Seriously, those of you still playing forensics to try to show that the video is fake, give it a rest. Why would gearlive go to this much trouble to fake it?

slffl
Dec 31, 2007, 12:52 PM
Looks good! I can't wait!

krye
Dec 31, 2007, 12:59 PM
Apple is so going after them!

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 01:03 PM
Apple is so going after them!Apple is going after the "leak". No doubt the are looking to acquire a "copy" of the distribution as we speak. Patiently. Quietly. And when they get it, they'll be able to retrieve the digital fingerprint that tells them who they'll prosecute.

~ CB

island
Dec 31, 2007, 01:13 PM
Good luck with that. The people who have it won't give it out and when it's released then it won't matter anymore.

:)

Apple is going after the "leak". No doubt the are looking to acquire a "copy" of the distribution as we speak. Patiently. Quietly. And when they get it, they'll be able to retrieve the digital fingerprint that tells them who they'll prosecute.

~ CB

OrangeCuse44
Dec 31, 2007, 01:22 PM
I was really hoping for flash support and/or playlist editing on the fly. This other stuff is just meh.

skeen
Dec 31, 2007, 01:22 PM
Anyone have any idea when we might expect this? I heard January 5th was a possibility, but I don't know what the significance there is.

flir67
Dec 31, 2007, 01:26 PM
i would like to see them, in a video, go into settings and show that it is in fact 1.1.3. then i will believe it.


I second that. first he showed a crapped webcam of the firmware then he pulled out a nice camera, then showed a nice clean video of very clear text video. still fails to show the clean video of text in firmware page shot.

this video is way to edited, and if its true apple will have him wishing he did not post this.

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 01:29 PM
Good luck with that. The people who have it won't give it out and when it's released then it won't matter anymore.
:)True, perhaps. Good moles are hard to find. That said, the only alternative to that is suing the parties that broke the news in order to reveal their source (or the code itself). --And we know how well that has worked in the past. But, who knows.

~ CB

drusoicy
Dec 31, 2007, 01:52 PM
My guess is that this is an intentional leak on Apple's part and that they are merely watching to see how the firmware spreads in the hacker community, who gives it to who etc. If I was them I would put something in it so that adoption of it can be easily tracked. Remember that the 1.1.2 firmware came into people's hands in a similar but seemingly less deliberate way, so they let it go more deliberately this time in order to figure out which guy in what office is responsible at Apple.

Let's face it, GearLive is a fairly obscure site. Certainly not mainstream. Why would *they* get the firmware unless it was given to them directly from "a friend" at Apple.

Think about it. If Apple the company, was saying to it's employees (with a wink) "Hey, we won't care if you let your friends in on this release," then all the bigger rumour sites with the large readerships who *also* have friends at Apple would *also* have it. There is no way this is a sanctioned release, even a "wink, wink nudge, nudge" one. Seems to me this is definitely someone breaking their NDA.

If I was to go deep into "wild guess" country, I would think that since GearLive is based in Seattle of all places, that maybe a former Microsoft employee who is a friend of someone at GearLive recently got a job at Apple and doesn't realise what a despicable act this is.

The only thing certain is that if and when the leaker is identified and fired, that all kinds of hilarious, illogical mock outrage from similar morality-disabled people will spread throughout the hacker forums. ;)

A fairly obscure site, eh?

We get over 2 million unique visitors per month. We've been around since 2004. We've won awards, including BEst Technology Video Podcast.

Just because you don't happen to visit a site doesn't make it obscure :P

drusoicy
Dec 31, 2007, 01:54 PM
OK slightly off topic but, can anyone tell me if it's safe or if there's any reason not to put my AdSense for Content Number into the GearLive forum registration page?

I love the wiggling, it's cute.
I also like that the iTunes WiFi App is on the right hand side, it's different and almost iconic. (No pun intended)

Maybe NateTrue is a sacked/former apple employee.

Mitch, we use the Adsense for Content number in case you ever start submitting articles to us. Anything of yours that get's printed, we use your Adsense number to display ads from YOUR Adsense account so you would earn some cash ;)

Completely optional though.

megfilmworks
Dec 31, 2007, 02:49 PM
A fairly obscure site, eh?

We get over 2 million unique visitors per month. We've been around since 2004. We've won awards, including BEst Technology Video Podcast.

Just because you don't happen to visit a site doesn't make it obscure :P
I was very impressed with your site, and keep the informative videos and podcasts coming!! Happy New Year.

megfilmworks
Dec 31, 2007, 02:54 PM
So long as the demand remains high for unlocked phones then people will find away. Good point, but demand seems to be waning quickly. I hacked my iPhone in June and stopped hacking by August. Most of the "techies" I know (and I know a lot of them) hacked for awhile, opted for the secure and hassle free solution of the non hacked iPhone.
I'm sure hobbyists and the small percentage of users who need cheap plans (but can afford an iPhone) and world travelers who travel on the cheap will continue to hack but there ranks will be less than insignificant.

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 03:12 PM
A fairly obscure site, eh?
We get over 2 million unique visitors per month. We've been around since 2004. We've won awards, including BEst Technology Video Podcast.
Just because you don't happen to visit a site doesn't make it obscure :P I appreciate that you guys stepped up to the bat and did an iPhone battery replacement video, just to settle the question if nothing else. Good job. Sometimes it takes some waves to make people really notice something that's been there for a while.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=gearlive

Shoot me, but despite their publishing policies, I still like YouTube. ;)
Good point, but demand seems to be waning quickly. I hacked my iPhone in June and stopped hacking by August. Most of the "techies" I know (and I know a lot of them) hacked for awhile, opted for the secure and hassle free solution of the non hacked iPhone. I'm in that camp. There was a point where my iPhone started getting tempermental, and I wanted to focus on doing everything I could to make it crash less. At first, it felt odd, but oddly, my nonjailbreak iPhone feels much much more solid. Just my personal feeling. That said, I might well be singing a different tune by know if Jobs hadn't set a date on 3rd party app support.

~ CB

ipoddin
Dec 31, 2007, 03:14 PM
not really. it is the biggest update so far, maybe it just doesnt do what you want or need it to do...

i think maybe around the time of macworld we'll see 1.2. i think this is to be released before then...

Yeah, that's why for me it's underwhelming.

Why should I be excited?

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 03:24 PM
Yeah, that's why for me it's underwhelming.
Why should I be excited?No one needs you to be excited, so relax. Maybe you should ask yourself why you think someone wants you to be excited? If you're interested why other people are excited (or just pleased) about the update, just ask.

Personally, I'm excited because I can now my ANY web app my "start page" for mobile Safari, I can take mobile Safari and move it onto a different page, and only use a shortcut. I can now "ShortCut" my Google personal page. DONE. At times, I'd like to shortcut other things on my Homepage, like an airline, Movie ticket page, or my banking page. Moving my homepage items around like this was one of the main things I wanted a jailbreak app to do, but no one every made it anywhere NEAR this simple. Now, Apple will be adding THE simplest way to do it.

I remember holding down homepage icons in search of hidden "easter eggs". Ironically, its exactly how I thought moving icons around would happen (minus the jiggling). I also remember posing the question WHO should be the best company to compile inter-carrier tower triangulation data (after thinking about Navizon a little more). Google was the perfect choice. Bless Navizon, but I don't think the resources were ever going to be as expansive, and the service would never quite be profitable. Google Maps integration for My Location is stellar.

In the long-run, I never wanted a separate application. I didn't even think about "pins", but when I was out driving once... I went to try to get my bearings. Pins and triangulation would have helped a lot.

All and all, it looks like good stuff that I've been waiting some months to happen.

Lots of happy going on in my book, but everyone is different.

~ CB

abijnk
Dec 31, 2007, 03:58 PM
Where are the fixes for previous features that don't work though?
Like say, I don't know, the ability to turn the key lock slider off completely? That's just a basic standard feature, and if they don't have that working right, they shouldn't be implementing faux gps.

BTW, Apple isn't implementing "faux gps," Google is (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=393927&highlight=google) :)

I am excited for the simple fact that the technology in this phone has so much potential and every little bit Apple will give us helps. While you can sit and argue whether or not Apple should have given all of this stuff at the beginning, the simple facts are they didn't, so yeah, its exciting that we are getting this stuff now.

Don't get me wrong here, developers working on apps for jailbroken phones are great, really, I applaud all of them, but who doesn't want Apple to continue to add stuff "officially"??

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 04:20 PM
Where are the fixes for previous features that don't work though? Like say, I don't know, the ability to turn the key lock slider off completely? That's just a basic standard feature, and if they don't have that working right, they shouldn't be implementing faux gps. You might want to think in broad strokes. Before you simply write it off as "faux gps", check out the video on how Google says the feature works...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIG-Dx7kF3Q
Basically, if GPS exists in the phone it will USE that GPS in Google Maps. If GPS is NOT provided for, Google will take the cell tower triangulation data, and generate an approximation. I look at this as the first stage to supporting hardware GPS, whether its built-in to the SIM chip on a new phone, powered by a serial dongle, or a Bluetooth supported receiver. Apple's programming it to use Google's API, so who knows what internal hooks they've set up?

Different ways to look at it, I think.

Not exactly realtime turn-by-turn updates... but its another step closer (and looking good getting there). For the most part, its all I needed from this generation of the iPhone in the way of a GPS.

~ CB

drgardner
Dec 31, 2007, 05:20 PM
It's possible in my advancing years that I've just become to cynical, but I'm having a hard time buying this...

- A secret private key? First I've ever heard of it, and while I could see a private key for each phone, a single key that magically unlocks all iPhones seems like much too risky an approach.

- As has been noted, it's unfortunate that it was so inconvenient that it's hard to read the version number on the phone. Doesn't prove anything one way or the other, since I'd expect that could be hacked as well - but it sticks out.

- Contest for a giveaway iPhone for visitors to the site - did I catch that right in the video? You're sure this isn't about driving traffic to the site?

I'd be inclined to say that "time will tell" but there's enough plausible deniability here - unknown lineage, not final version, etc., etc. that the failure of some or all of the features to show up in the 'real' update can be explained away.

But it is a pretty cool fake, all the same. Nice work, and way to keep people entertained in the wait for MacWorld! :)

ipoddin
Dec 31, 2007, 05:39 PM
No one needs you to be excited, so relax. Maybe you should ask yourself why you think someone wants you to be excited? If you're interested why other people are excited (or just pleased) about the update, just ask.

Personally, I'm excited because I can now my ANY web app my "start page" for mobile Safari, I can take mobile Safari and move it onto a different page, and only use a shortcut. I can now "ShortCut" my Google personal page. DONE. At times, I'd like to shortcut other things on my Homepage, like an airline, Movie ticket page, or my banking page. Moving my homepage items around like this was one of the main things I wanted a jailbreak app to do, but no one every made it anywhere NEAR this simple. Now, Apple will be adding THE simplest way to do it.

I remember holding down homepage icons in search of hidden "easter eggs". Ironically, its exactly how I thought moving icons around would happen (minus the jiggling). I also remember posing the question WHO should be the best company to compile inter-carrier tower triangulation data (after thinking about Navizon a little more). Google was the perfect choice. Bless Navizon, but I don't think the resources were ever going to be as expansive, and the service would never quite be profitable. Google Maps integration for My Location is stellar.

In the long-run, I never wanted a separate application. I didn't even think about "pins", but when I was out driving once... I went to try to get my bearings. Pins and triangulation would have helped a lot.

All and all, it looks like good stuff that I've been waiting some months to happen.

Lots of happy going on in my book, but everyone is different.

~ CB

Whoohoo! :rolleyes:

Still not the second coming like some people here make it out to be.

drusoicy
Dec 31, 2007, 06:06 PM
It's possible in my advancing years that I've just become to cynical, but I'm having a hard time buying this...

- A secret private key? First I've ever heard of it, and while I could see a private key for each phone, a single key that magically unlocks all iPhones seems like much too risky an approach.

- As has been noted, it's unfortunate that it was so inconvenient that it's hard to read the version number on the phone. Doesn't prove anything one way or the other, since I'd expect that could be hacked as well - but it sticks out.

- Contest for a giveaway iPhone for visitors to the site - did I catch that right in the video? You're sure this isn't about driving traffic to the site?

I'd be inclined to say that "time will tell" but there's enough plausible deniability here - unknown lineage, not final version, etc., etc. that the failure of some or all of the features to show up in the 'real' update can be explained away.

But it is a pretty cool fake, all the same. Nice work, and way to keep people entertained in the wait for MacWorld! :)

I have no idea about secret keys, but dude, come on - seriously. Try Googling my name before you start questioning my integrity, okay?

Anyhow, we just put up our first 1.1.3 Q&A, answering questions from readers and viewers. We put up an image, clear as day, of the ABout screen. That cool with you?

Also, on the giveaway iPhone. You think this is just a ploy for traffic? We have gotten tons of traffic, whether we give away an iPHone or not. However, it's MY video. If I want to tell the viewers, AT THE END OF THE VIDEO, that we will be giving away a one of a kind iPhone, is that not my right?

People are so freaking cynical these days...

drusoicy
Dec 31, 2007, 06:07 PM
Failed to leave a link to the new iPhone 1.1.3 Q&A - we are answering your 1.1.3 questions here:

http://www.gearlive.com/news/article/q407-iphone-113-qa-batch-one/

If you wouldn't mind Digging the article if you like it, you can do so here:

http://digg.com/apple/iPhone_1_1_3_questions_answered_by_Gear_Live

Thanks again all!

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 06:09 PM
Whoohoo! :rolleyes: Still not the second coming like some people here make it out to be. Just so you know, you're completely OKAY to have that opinion, alright? It's not a pod-people scenario, honest! Just because other people don't agree with you doesn't mean you have to hunt them down and pan the iPhone until they somehow come to their senses. :D

For instance, look at guys like Chris Pirillo of Tech TV fame. When the iPhone came out, he found it profoundly annoying that everybody kept fauning over the stupid phone... going on and on about looking pretty, when the phone was missing a bunch of basic functions he's had in other phones for years! He posted a RANT about it and how silly the hysteria is...

"As an overall purchase, it is about the DUMBEST
thing that you can do right now."
- Chris Pirillo, July 29th, 2007 9:48pm

"It is just insane. GIVE ME A BREAK! I don't know
what you're smoking, or what Apple has put in your
Apple juice, but hey... whatever it is... I'd like some,
because I wish I was high like that everyday..."
- Chris Pirillo, July 29th, 2007 9:48pm

"There are so many shortcomings in the iphone
inherently that just make it a bad consumer product
decision right now, that its just not... its just a bad
decision altogether. I've detailed some of them if
you don't believe me."
- Chris Pirillo, July 29th, 2007 9:48pm

See him rant here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBZnF02Lqjg

Then, you can compare that to his comments 5 days later.

"Yes, I'll admit it. I love my iPhone. The experience
of using it is unparalleled by any other mobile device
I've ever used. If you're going to buy an iPhone, don't
do it because of the hype. Do it because it's well
worth it." - Chris Pirillo, August 04, 2007 11:47pm

"I hate to eat crow. I wasn't wrong about my
original assertions. I still stand by them. Having an
EDGE connection is certainly not as good as having
an EVDO or a 3G connection. A very FAST mobile
connection. But I also... after using it... realized I
would rather have one of these with EDGE, than my
Blackjack with EVDO or 3D speeds."
- Chris Pirillo, August 04, 2007 11:47pm

"I've never enjoyed a mobile device more than I
have the iPhone. And as I wrote in my blog post, I'm
finding myself doing things on here that I never would
have done on any other device, or thought of."
- Chris Pirillo, August 04, 2007 11:47pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcBPVNccRIE

So... I can see how you can have your opinion, and its perfectly valid for you. You might not care about the things that won Chris over, so you may never ever EVER care about it. --It's totally OK. For the rest of us, everything we're ranting about is not even in the same context as it would be for a different phone. So, having say... multiple-SMS on iPhone means more than having multiple-SMS on say a Blackjack or god-forbid, a Motorola i850 or something. At least for some folks.

Unless you experience that productivity boost, you have to understand you're not even reading announcements in the same context as people who really like what they're using (enough to make some compromises).

~ CB

csimmons
Dec 31, 2007, 06:14 PM
First of all I don't live in the United States so I could care less about AT&T. The fact of the mater is Apple wants to cater to a global market. While in the United States people purchase phones directly from retail stores owner by carriers, or partnered with carriers, this is not the same in the rest of the world.

Walk into any electronics store in Europe and Asia and you purchase a phone and insert any SIM card your heart desires.

Now I don't want to turn this into another discussion about the decision to sell locked phones, however one should consider that the demand for unlocked phones is so enormous that it's lead to not only a bunch of software hacks, but also the development and programming of chips that slide over your SIM card and fool the phone into believing it has an AT&T SIM card.

The notion that Apple can prevent this is very foolish in my opinion, because so long as there is a demand, then people will cater to it. Look at the eBay prices for TurboSIM and you'll see a lot of people are making serious money on it. I know that I've unlocked my iPhone and will never accept a locked version. I travel for work and want the freedom to inset local SIM cards into it. I might have to be a bit careful about updating both iTunes and the phone, but I'm confident that solutions will quickly emerge. After-all I'm running 1.1.2 (new bootloader and all) without problems.

I can even go as far as saying that I understand the initial AT&T agreement. Entering the cell phone industry was a major gamble for it. However Apple could have been smarter and released the phone without partners in the rest of the world. They would have cleaned up over Christmas, and the pathetic state of the dollar would have discouraged to many people from buying it overseas. Not to mention it would be an easier battle to reform the cellular industry in America than reforming it in the entire world.

Much of what you write is false. For example:

"Walk into any electronics store in Europe and Asia and you purchase a phone and insert any SIM card your heart desires. "

False. In Germany for example, you have "D" networks (T-Mobile, Vodafone, O2) and you have "E" networks (E-Plus / Base, etc.) You can't use SIM's programmed for "E" networks in cell phones programmed for "D" networks.

I'm not really convinced that the market for unlocked phones is so big as many people believe. The vast majority of iPhone users could care less if the phone is locked or not.

Here in Germany, T-Mobile published a brochure where they explained in detail how Visual Voicemail works. I can't see every cell phone carrier providing the infrastructure to make this key iPhone feature work they way Apple intends for it to, so making the iPhone open doesn't make much sense in that respect.

decksnap
Dec 31, 2007, 06:38 PM
A fairly obscure site, eh?

We get over 2 million unique visitors per month. We've been around since 2004. We've won awards, including BEst Technology Video Podcast.

Just because you don't happen to visit a site doesn't make it obscure :P

Anybody who's ever heard of this site before this raise your hand.

Everybody gets their 15 minutes.

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 06:45 PM
Anybody who's ever heard of this site before this raise your hand. Everybody gets their 15 minutes. If you pay attention to things or if you have a good memory, you'll have HEARD of them. At least in the last few months. The real question is do most people around these parts VISIT GearLive. The answer is probably not. Recognize that Digg turned 15 minutes of fame into one of the most popular tech destinations on the Internet. I wouldn't begrudge anyone for clarifying how long they've been duking it out, whether noticed by the collective conscious of the mainstream or not. I haven't visited TechDirt, BoingBoing, or TechCrunch in forever, but I don't doubt they've got oodles of traffic I wouldn't imagine.

~ CB

decksnap
Dec 31, 2007, 06:50 PM
Recognize that Digg turned 15 minutes of fame into one of the most popular tech destinations on the Internet.

Digg has a gimmick that made them big. And I don't mean gimmick in a bad way. It was a great idea. I just thought it was funny he was defending his geek cred if you will. 'Hey I get hits, man.'

Cleverboy
Dec 31, 2007, 06:53 PM
Digg has a gimmick that made them big. And I don't mean gimmick in a bad way. It was a great idea. I just thought it was funny he was defending his geek cred if you will. 'Hey I get hits, man.'I 'spose. I think we all pee against the tree and growl from time to time. --If you'll pardon my expression. :D Then the testosterone clears up, and we're smiling and socializing like nothing happened.

~ CB

decksnap
Dec 31, 2007, 06:57 PM
I like that... gonna have to use that one. :)

severe
Dec 31, 2007, 07:09 PM
It just occurred to me that, because of a delay on 1.1.3, we'll all have to type our "Happy New Year!" texts one at a time.

Could have been great timing. :o

seedster2
Dec 31, 2007, 08:06 PM
While I am aware that no single update will please everyone, I just don't understand how people don't complain that the following inherent shortcomings haven't been addressed before rearranging icons:confused::

1. Deleting multiple emails at once (purging deleted items)
2. Flash support (Like it or not a lot of sites use it, including At&t)
3. Multimedia messaging (it's not a niche product)
4. Notes Synchronization
5. To Do list
6. Copy/paste

Nevertheless it is good to see them continually improving the interface. If everyone is content with that fine. I just think there needs to be some prioritization reviewed here.

i.maverick
Dec 31, 2007, 11:40 PM
what i want to know is, Apple have added the paging of the home screen, but why do that now when there aren't even enough apps for more than 1 screen?
i know the SDK is out in feb, so why not release the paging then?
unless there are some more apps to be released from now till end of feb
mmm... considering this is true, keeping bookmarks on the home screen would require space won't it... or it would just look silly if u were able to keep only 3 bookmarks...!!!
lol.

drgardner
Jan 1, 2008, 12:12 AM
I have no idea about secret keys, but dude, come on - seriously. Try Googling my name before you start questioning my integrity, okay?

Anyhow, we just put up our first 1.1.3 Q&A, answering questions from readers and viewers. We put up an image, clear as day, of the ABout screen. That cool with you?

Also, on the giveaway iPhone. You think this is just a ploy for traffic? We have gotten tons of traffic, whether we give away an iPHone or not. However, it's MY video. If I want to tell the viewers, AT THE END OF THE VIDEO, that we will be giving away a one of a kind iPhone, is that not my right?

People are so freaking cynical these days...

I did google you, and it looks like you post to your website a lot.

Look, my apologies for 'questioning your integrity.' Good luck with this, hope it works out well for you. As I mentioned, I think you're covered either way - if it comes out with these features, you're a hero. If not, well, maybe they got pulled, or the person who gave this to you has some off branch of the code. You get your traffic either way. And that's cool - it certainly seems to have kept a lot of people entertained.

One response I would have - you mention that "I have no idea about secret keys," although I seem to recall that was a major premise in your argument for proving this was real - in that it installed with the common secret key. If that's really true - that there is a single key that is used to sign all phones - then you've certainly uncovered a huge story, since such an approach would leave a huge hole in iPhone security. All an attacker would need to do is compromise one key to own every single phone.

Happy New Year.

Otaviano
Jan 1, 2008, 11:05 AM
False. In Germany for example, you have "D" networks (T-Mobile, Vodafone, O2) and you have "E" networks (E-Plus / Base, etc.) You can't use SIM's programmed for "E" networks in cell phones programmed for "D" networks.

So how do you explain unlocked iPhones running on E-Plus? Perhaps what you meant is that if you purchased a subsidized phone which is locked to T-Mobile then it won't run on a competitors networks. Those are all GSM networks and if your purchase a Nokia or any other GSM phone at full price it will run on any one of them.


I'm not really convinced that the market for unlocked phones is so big as many people believe. The vast majority of iPhone users could care less if the phone is locked or not.

Perhaps you aren't interested but the demand is clearly there. Look at how the TurboSIM solution has sold out completely and is going for three times it original price on eBay. Or better yet look examine the 10 different TurboSIM clones that emerged immediately when people realized it was a viable solution. Or you could surf over to one of the many forums dedicated to unlocking the iPhone and take a look at all the posters asking where they can find SIM based solution or those waiting patiently for a new software based solution. You could even get on Apple's board and check out the threads from all the people that bought the €999 unlocked from T-Mobile, only to find Apple dragging their feet to actually unlock the thing. To ignore all of these things is a bit pretentious of you. There is a lot of people that are happy with locked versions but you can't deny the market for unlocked phones. I live in Sweden and have seen a bunch of iPhones around and all of them are unlocked considering it hasn't been released here. I personally can not accept a locked phone as I travel for work and want the liberty to insert local SIM cards, I'm sure there are plenty of people in my situation.


Here in Germany, T-Mobile published a brochure where they explained in detail how Visual Voicemail works. I can't see every cell phone carrier providing the infrastructure to make this key iPhone feature work they way Apple intends for it to, so making the iPhone open doesn't make much sense in that respect.

Visual Voice Mail is hardly a key feature, and you make a very big assumption in saying that other carriers would not activate it. In the short time the iPhone was available unlocked in Germany there were carriers offering iPhone purchasers €600 rebates. If a carrier is willing to shell out that kind of money to get new customers then it's not far fetched to assume they would implement Visual Voice Mail provided Apple allowed them too.

Also if the market was open it would help establish Visual Voice Mail as a standard, which is better for the industry as a whole. Carriers would have incentive to upgrade their networks so they are on the same playing field with their competitors. What we have now keeps the market stagnant and will see a bunch of different proprietary solutions coming from different players.

drusoicy
Jan 1, 2008, 11:38 AM
I did google you, and it looks like you post to your website a lot.

Look, my apologies for 'questioning your integrity.' Good luck with this, hope it works out well for you. As I mentioned, I think you're covered either way - if it comes out with these features, you're a hero. If not, well, maybe they got pulled, or the person who gave this to you has some off branch of the code. You get your traffic either way. And that's cool - it certainly seems to have kept a lot of people entertained.

One response I would have - you mention that "I have no idea about secret keys," although I seem to recall that was a major premise in your argument for proving this was real - in that it installed with the common secret key. If that's really true - that there is a single key that is used to sign all phones - then you've certainly uncovered a huge story, since such an approach would leave a huge hole in iPhone security. All an attacker would need to do is compromise one key to own every single phone.

Happy New Year.

When I said to Google my name, I meant to look at the results that WEREN'T from my own website. Talking about my bio pages on third-party websites like the conferences I speak at, or the NPR radios shows I've been on, or the fact that I was just named one of the Top 25 Innovators in Seattle by Seattle Magazine. I'm just saying, I have a professional reputation, and I wouldn't stupidly put it on the line for a fake iPhone story. I pay the bills with what I do, supporting a wife and a toddler.

As to the whole secret key thing - I don't remember ever making that arguement, unless there is another "term" for secret key? I am still unsure as to what you are referring to. The process for me was - 1) get the firmware and 2) use iTunes to update my iPhone with that firmware.

No weird third-party apps or anything like that involved.

Cleverboy
Jan 1, 2008, 12:35 PM
One response I would have - you mention that "I have no idea about secret keys," although I seem to recall that was a major premise in your argument for proving this was real - in that it installed with the common secret key. If that's really true - that there is a single key that is used to sign all phones - then you've certainly uncovered a huge story, since such an approach would leave a huge hole in iPhone security. All an attacker would need to do is compromise one key to own every single phone.As to the whole secret key thing - I don't remember ever making that arguement, unless there is another "term" for secret key? I am still unsure as to what you are referring to. The process for me was - 1) get the firmware and 2) use iTunes to update my iPhone with that firmware. I believe DRGardner is referring to Nate's commentary on Gizmodo.

DRGardner, that has nothing to do with anything Andru is doing, and I think you're misinterpreting the whole thing. I read the Gizmodo story closely enough to at least set you somewhat straight, but this isn't my field. Basically, the comment as I understand it, is that each firmware update is SIGNED by Apple, such that when you actively use iTunes to install the update... it will ONLY work with the proper signature on the file.

If you don't understand the concept of signing a file, this may sound totally weird to you, so its worth noting. If you go into iTunes, you can point iTunes to a firmware update file. This file must be "signed" with Apple's unique digital signature or "key", or the update won't work. If hackers KNEW this "key", they could create their own custom packages and users could go through the same process to install them (voila!) This is NOT a security issue in any sense as manually specifying a firmware update package isn't really how most people do their updates (iTunes downloads the update directly from Apple and then installs it in one shot.)

Suffice it to say, this is not any form of potential "security exploit", with the exception that someone could trick you into downloading and installing a malicious firmware update to your iPhone (as in... YOU would download it to your computer, YOU would then launch iTunes, YOU would then tell iTunes to use this new firmware update file, YOU would then proceed with installing the malicious file onto your phone). It would roughly take a series of bad decisions on your part for that to eventually result in a problem. Right now, without Apple's key, even well-intentioned software programmers can't use iTunes to load software updates onto the phone (which is how Apple would like to keep it).

~ CB

gmanmr
Jan 1, 2008, 12:35 PM
Regarding the dropped pin placement, is it only possible only to get directions to it or are you be able to get something like closest street address?

I'm also wondering if this fixes the most annoying 'bug' in iPhone's Safari: pages (tabs or whatever) open in safari other than the active one (the one you are currently viewing) timeout, become blank and must always be reloaded when switching back to them. This is most absurd behavior in a browser I've ever seen, I don't use Safari on my PC but I'm gonna assume this doesn't happen in any other version.

CWallace
Jan 1, 2008, 12:46 PM
I would like to be able to re-order (and even remove) buttons, so this update has value for me. :cool:

csimmons
Jan 1, 2008, 01:07 PM
Perhaps you aren't interested but the demand is clearly there. Look at how the TurboSIM solution has sold out completely and is going for three times it original price on eBay. Or better yet look examine the 10 different TurboSIM clones that emerged immediately when people realized it was a viable solution. Or you could surf over to one of the many forums dedicated to unlocking the iPhone and take a look at all the posters asking where they can find SIM based solution or those waiting patiently for a new software based solution. You could even get on Apple's board and check out the threads from all the people that bought the 999 unlocked from T-Mobile, only to find Apple dragging their feet to actually unlock the thing. To ignore all of these things is a bit pretentious of you. There is a lot of people that are happy with locked versions but you can't deny the market for unlocked phones. I live in Sweden and have seen a bunch of iPhones around and all of them are unlocked considering it hasn't been released here. I personally can not accept a locked phone as I travel for work and want the liberty to insert local SIM cards, I'm sure there are plenty of people in my situation.

First, these are no publicly available numbers of how many unlocked iPhones T-Mobile actually sold, so "getting on the Apple boards to check out the threads from all the people that bought the 999 unlocked from T-Mobile, only to find Apple dragging their feet to actually unlock the thing" is not and accurate indicator of anything.

The TurboSIM solution being "completely sold out", as you put it, is not an indicator of the true demand for unlocked iPhones. Perhaps where you live it is, but certainly not worldwide.

I never said the demand wasn't there; I said the demand probably wasn't as high as many people - such as yourself - would assume. If it were, Apple would have sold far fewer iPhones in the US, France, Germany and the UK than they have to date.

Visual Voice Mail is hardly a key feature, and you make a very big assumption in saying that other carriers would not activate it. In the short time the iPhone was available unlocked in Germany there were carriers offering iPhone purchasers 600 rebates. If a carrier is willing to shell out that kind of money to get new customers then it's not far fetched to assume they would implement Visual Voice Mail provided Apple allowed them too.

-In every single promo item released so far regarding the iPhone, Visual Voice Mail is touted as a key feature of the iPhone. Apple itself says that Visual Voice Mail is a key feature. Just because YOU don't see it as a key feature doesn't mean that it's not one.

-There was only ONE single carrier (Debitel, an MVNO who buys time from all of the major D-network carriers) offering the 600 rebate to those who purchased the unlocked iPhone from T-Mobile, and in their calling plan literature they clearly stated that Visual Voice Mail was NOT supported.

-The rebate - like the Vodafone sponsored court injunction that provoked the temporary 600 price hike in the first place, an injunction that was reversed less than one week later by the German courts- was nothing more than a publicity stunt devised by a T-Mobile competitor who regretted not getting the iPhone contract, at least that's how the German tech media saw it.

Also if the market was open it would help establish Visual Voice Mail as a standard, which is better for the industry as a whole. Carriers would have incentive to upgrade their networks so they are on the same playing field with their competitors. What we have now keeps the market stagnant and will see a bunch of different proprietary solutions coming from different players.

There is nothing to stop other manufacturers from implementing Visual Voice Mail or other such features of their own into their phones. In fact, Apple and it's partners weren't even the first to implement VVM; it's a technology that's been around for quite some time, but as usual it takes a company like Apple to make a workable solution out of it, so the stagnation argument is IMO bogus. You can't seriously blame Apple for the laziness and incompetence of the mobile phone industry as a whole.

Vasileios
Jan 1, 2008, 02:24 PM
Pspsully from DEV TEAM confirmed that v1.1.3 has a new baseband!!! I guess the OTB v1.1.2 unlock is even closer... :-)

ipoddin
Jan 1, 2008, 04:29 PM
While I am aware that no single update will please everyone, I just don't understand how people don't complain that the following inherent shortcomings haven't been addressed before rearranging icons:confused::

1. Deleting multiple emails at once (purging deleted items)
2. Flash support (Like it or not a lot of sites use it, including At&t)
3. Multimedia messaging (it's not a niche product)
4. Notes Synchronization
5. To Do list
6. Copy/paste

Nevertheless it is good to see them continually improving the interface. If everyone is content with that fine. I just think there needs to be some prioritization reviewed here.

And this my friend, is my point, which Cleverboy is missing. Big deal, rearrange icons, fake gps...lets see some real improvements worth fawning all over!

Roamerick
Jan 1, 2008, 04:40 PM
And this my friend, is my point, which Cleverboy is missing. Big deal, rearrange icons, fake gps...lets see some real improvements worth fawning all over!

Hmm, OK then. Just for the sake of argument though, raise your hands if you can remember the last time you got a software upgrade of any significance on your Motorola, Nokia, SE, Samsung, Amoi, or ACME handset?

Anyone? Anyone?

I thought so.

Cleverboy
Jan 1, 2008, 04:51 PM
And this my friend, is my point, which Cleverboy is missing. Big deal, rearrange icons, fake gps...lets see some real improvements worth fawning all over!I understand your problem though... Anything new about the iPhone is LOUDER than it should be as a general news item and its ruining your personal signal to noise ratio. I can empathize with that. I'd LOVE to read a thread on incremental new features being added to the N95 too though... but, how we're different? Well, I wouldn't go out of my way to post that I'm yawning if I'm not excited. I just move on. Works out for me. I dunno.
While I am aware that no single update will please everyone, I just don't understand how people don't complain that the following inherent shortcomings haven't been addressed before rearranging icons:confused::You'll need to be able to rearrange icons and use paging before 3rd party apps are introduced (next month, remember?) I think 3rd party apps are more important than anything you listed. Just my opinion though.

~ CB

drgardner
Jan 1, 2008, 06:09 PM
Suffice it to say, this is not any form of potential "security exploit", with the exception that someone could trick you into downloading and installing a malicious firmware update to your iPhone (as in... YOU would download it to your computer, YOU would then launch iTunes, YOU would then tell iTunes to use this new firmware update file, YOU would then proceed with installing the malicious file onto your phone).
~ CB

Thanks for setting me straight on Nate.

However, I do understand, in great depth, the concept of signing. And I would suggest that if hackers could indeed take advantage of a secret key to trick a user into downloading an unauthorized piece of firmware - well, that's pretty much the definition of a security exploit.

Doesn't matter though, as fun as it is, I don't have time to really follow this or debate in depth, so I'm going to stand by and watch. The crowd has decided that this is real - I obviously don't think so, so will see what happens.

Happy New Year, and here's to lot's of cool Apple updates in the months ahead.

Cleverboy
Jan 1, 2008, 06:24 PM
Happy New Year, and here's to lot's of cool Apple updates in the months ahead. Cheers, mate. :)

~ CB

walnuts
Jan 1, 2008, 06:50 PM
It just occurred to me that, because of a delay on 1.1.3, we'll all have to type our "Happy New Year!" texts one at a time.

Could have been great timing. :o

You know I thought the same thing when I typed that out a million times last night.

seedster2
Jan 1, 2008, 07:42 PM
You'll need to be able to rearrange icons and use paging before 3rd party apps are introduced (next month, remember?) I think 3rd party apps are more important than anything you listed. Just my opinion though.

~ CB

I understand that it is imperative to get things prepped for the SDK, but I think average functionality should have been addressed a long time ago. I just think being able to delete multiple emails, sending a text to multiple recipients and adding multiple attachments to an email is a reasonable expectation.

But I wish making the phone better was a better prioritized. I know they are in the biz to make money. But I get the feeling that adding multiple SMS recipients (increases in texting = $$), excluding ichat (don't lose texting $$), iTMS wifi ($$), and the eagerly awaited SDK (even more $$) all seem to be ways for ATT and apple to keep cashing in, but the non profitable improvements are sort of bleh. We have differences in opinions and that fine. I still think it's a wonderful device as is.

Happy New Year

Cleverboy
Jan 1, 2008, 08:37 PM
I understand that it is imperative to get things prepped for the SDK, but I think average functionality should have been addressed a long time ago.We agree! If you agree that this work needs to be done, and you are only insisting that it should have been done "earlier", then we're totally on the same exact page of the book. Personally, I don't believe in the mythical man month (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month) however... but it sounds like you do. You would do yourself a tremendous favor if you try not to focus on all the features you wanted yesterday... faulting Apple because they dared to release a product without them.

Just submit them to Apple like I regularly do, and wait. Tell other people to do the same. E-mail Steve Jobs once a month about it and be concise. Pick the most important 3 features and shoot.

I'm not sure if you read the reports of Apple pulling people off other BIG projects to get the iPhone out on time for June 29th (even though it looked pretty good in January)... but I certainly did. The last few updates have corrected a number of problems with the phone that weren't finished for launch day. We're now just over 6 months in, so its not really been that long (but it sure feels like it doesn't it?) :)

I'll be honest with you. Not ONLY does "rearranging icons" bring us a step closer to 3rd party apps, but think about it. Safari is one of iPhone's biggest features. While you complain about deleting multiple emails and MMS, most iPhone users don't care about those things. Really, they don't. I have auto-deletion settings on my phone that work well for me... and I don't get all that much spam. But if you asked me what I do on a regular basis... I'd tell you I had to type in the address of a website I went to ALL THE TIME, because mobile Safari doesn't have a "homepage" feature. The only reason rearranging icons makes sense, is because of the added ability to put shortcuts on the iPhone homepage (and more wonderfully, the DOCK).

--I have to tell you. If you've been to an iPhone Tech Talk (http://developer.apple.com/events/iphone/techtalks/), you know that Apple has a LARGE list of features they're queuing into the system, and they have people assigned to determine which features are being requested or complained about the most. They're not licking their finger and sticking it into the wind like you apparently assume they are. They KNOW.

They've just finished instituting a web directory (http://www.apple.com/iphone/webapps/) of wonderful Web Apps that, while not native applications, help people on a regular basis to get the most out of their phone. Personally, I go to my Google Personal page on a daily basis. Being able to tap my homepage and jump right to it, affects my productivity FAR more than a "to do list" application (that I often just use the Notes app to jot lists into as a replacement). I'd also dig having the Fandango iPhone app on my homepage (literally two taps, and I'll have movie showtimes in my area... SUPER easy).

I look at your list, and the ONLY thing I see of real "prioritization" worthy significance, is clipboard support. Everything else is very subjective. I generally don't make a habit of needing to copy/paste things on my phone yet, so its only a mild annoyance. Accessing web pages FASTER... ones that I use frequently? That's something I'll need each and every day. I can already tell you that when 1.1.3 is released, my homepage will change dramatically. Bank of America, Google, Google Apps page, Fandango... Digg... I'm not even sure the Safari icon will even remain on the first page (and definitely NOT on my DOCK).

But I wish making the phone better was a better prioritized."Better" is subjective, isn't it? :) I'm in the camp that wishes there were an alternate reality, where people that think they could run Apple, iPhone development, or what-have-you better than Jobs does, could be arbitrarily placed in charge, and we could periodically check the alternate timeline and compare it with the one that we're in, but unfortunately none of us have that luxury. When I look at what they've added, and what I hope they'll add, I always temper my judgement with the fact good work takes time. When YOU look at what they've added, you see all the things their hard work inspires you to think of... and you automatically wonder why it isn't done yet. It's natural. You think about your own day-to-day priorities and you tend to gloss over all the current effort.

Luckily by February, we won't have to wait for Apple anymore. There'll be a roiling community of developers tossing their creations into the pot, like other phones... except we'll be seeing all sorts of NEW possibilities (http://phillryu.com/2007/08/16/5-iphone-apps-id-like-to-see-from-apple/).
I still think it's a wonderful device as is. Me too.
Happy New Year You too, man.

~ CB

ipoddin
Jan 2, 2008, 09:18 AM
Hmm, OK then. Just for the sake of argument though, raise your hands if you can remember the last time you got a software upgrade of any significance on your Motorola, Nokia, SE, Samsung, Amoi, or ACME handset?

Anyone? Anyone?

I thought so.

considering those phones already have numerous standard features already built in that the iPhone doesn't, they don't really need software upgrades.

hrmpf
Jan 2, 2008, 11:23 AM
hello-

it seems like the firmware is using the rearrangement mode from this patent application
(http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/223/apple-patent-shows-details-of-iphone-113-firmware)-- always interesting when a patent becomes an (almost) reality

Roamerick
Jan 2, 2008, 01:12 PM
considering those phones already have numerous standard features already built in that the iPhone doesn't, they don't really need software upgrades.

Cop-out. The real reason why you're venting your frustration with updates that don't have exactly what you want is simple: You don't think of the iPhone as a phone at all, and thus expect the same kinds of radical upgrades your Mac/PC might get.

And you may be right. You only need to look at any jailbroken iPhone to see what a powerful, versatile digital tablet it really is, far beyond Apple's original design, and certainly far beyond your average phone or PDA.

I firmly believe however that the key upgrade we should really be screaming for is the SDK. Everything else will follow, from Apple themselves of from the third party community. Once you open the platform up, anything can happen.

cbrain
Jan 2, 2008, 01:58 PM
hello-

it seems like the firmware is using the rearrangement mode from this patent application
(http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/223/apple-patent-shows-details-of-iphone-113-firmware)-- always interesting when a patent becomes an (almost) reality

Interesting.

Once more the likelihood of this update is increased.

notnek
Jan 2, 2008, 03:32 PM
c'mon already.

joec
Jan 2, 2008, 04:36 PM
First, these are no publicly available numbers of how many unlocked iPhones T-Mobile actually sold, so "getting on the Apple boards to check out the threads from all the people that bought the €999 unlocked from T-Mobile, only to find Apple dragging their feet to actually unlock the thing" is not and accurate indicator of anything.

The TurboSIM solution being "completely sold out", as you put it, is not an indicator of the true demand for unlocked iPhones. Perhaps where you live it is, but certainly not worldwide.

I never said the demand wasn't there; I said the demand probably wasn't as high as many people - such as yourself - would assume. If it were, Apple would have sold far fewer iPhones in the US, France, Germany and the UK than they have to date.



-In every single promo item released so far regarding the iPhone, Visual Voice Mail is touted as a key feature of the iPhone. Apple itself says that Visual Voice Mail is a key feature. Just because YOU don't see it as a key feature doesn't mean that it's not one.

-There was only ONE single carrier (Debitel, an MVNO who buys time from all of the major D-network carriers) offering the €600 rebate to those who purchased the unlocked iPhone from T-Mobile, and in their calling plan literature they clearly stated that Visual Voice Mail was NOT supported.

-The rebate - like the Vodafone sponsored court injunction that provoked the temporary €600 price hike in the first place, an injunction that was reversed less than one week later by the German courts- was nothing more than a publicity stunt devised by a T-Mobile competitor who regretted not getting the iPhone contract, at least that's how the German tech media saw it.



There is nothing to stop other manufacturers from implementing Visual Voice Mail or other such features of their own into their phones. In fact, Apple and it's partners weren't even the first to implement VVM; it's a technology that's been around for quite some time, but as usual it takes a company like Apple to make a workable solution out of it, so the stagnation argument is IMO bogus. You can't seriously blame Apple for the laziness and incompetence of the mobile phone industry as a whole.

My dear boy,

in France the Orange iphone Sale, as far as french friends told me, was a real flop.. you could find more iphones than the people asked for! meanwhile the government obliged Orange and aple to sell phones without any locking system. the price was very high, even compared to other phones or PDAs, 1000euro (the same price like in germany, in the opinion of experts a too high price!). In germany the sale was not so high like expected.. pleople are not stupid, you know?

But i'll tell you something: for people it's ok to renew a contract for a new phone, as far as the prices are acceptable, but when they notice that apple is just playing like microsoft with them (trying to eliminate any kind of competition and chaining them to extreme expensive contracts, like windows and office), then the image loss will be much more important, than the 600dollars or euros they would earn! then it's over with hype or sales!

Second: the european union will surely open an inquiry over that kind of contracts, because of competition and open markets, the chapter in germany was only one step this way.

Third: i guess in germany and france there are more iphones from the usa or cracked than original with Deutsche Telekom and Orange France Contracts!!!

Fourth: opensource or at least free of at&t (orange or D-T)contracts bring more applications to the iphone and more people to use it, many people don't want to be chained to a company and not to get things that other phones have already.. waiting for highly announced firmwares or minor patchwares!

You are making a lot of noise about google earth and triangulation for it, but all this technology functions only in plane surface and only in cities because of the distance to each other (otherwise the mistake rate is too high!), but does this phone have tomtom or something similar? i guess not!
or does it have any highspeed transmission that deserves such a name???

Europe has it all over.. before you change the company for calling, you have to pass national borders.. and even like that you have the same standarts and don't need to close any communication!! and thanks to the EU we are getting all lower costs using foreign european company networks! so far european phone network and system is much better than yours! and what Debitel VVMail: from the court injuction to that offer, it was impossible to create the ability to such a function.. but are you sure to have it when you go from germany to spain or france??? how does apple be able of to provide that function all over, when the phones are only been sold in a couple of contries????

Joe_c

Viddrumr32
Jan 2, 2008, 04:39 PM
I hope this comes out soon. Best update so far with the SDK still in the wings. :o

pamon
Jan 2, 2008, 07:47 PM
i'm guessing 1.1.3 during the keynote and then SDK info as well. They can't delay this much further with all the leaks.

Dmac77
Jan 2, 2008, 07:48 PM
does this mean an update for the ipod touch as well?

iwood
Jan 2, 2008, 11:16 PM
so Dru have you gotten an email or a phone call from apple yet?

Allanf
Jan 3, 2008, 03:27 AM
You might want to think in broad strokes. Before you simply write it off as "faux gps", check out the video on how Google says the feature works...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIG-Dx7kF3Q
Basically, if GPS exists in the phone it will USE that GPS in Google Maps. If GPS is NOT provided for, Google will take the cell tower triangulation data, and generate an approximation. I look at this as the first stage to supporting hardware GPS, whether its built-in to the SIM chip on a new phone, powered by a serial dongle, or a Bluetooth supported receiver. Apple's programming it to use Google's API, so who knows what internal hooks they've set up?

Different ways to look at it, I think.

Not exactly realtime turn-by-turn updates... but its another step closer (and looking good getting there). For the most part, its all I needed from this generation of the iPhone in the way of a GPS.

~ CB This may have been covered before but partfoundary (http://partfoundry.com/iphonegps.html) claims to have a GPS add-on ready for release in February. They mention that it will work on jail broken phones but it's a safe bet they will have a legitimate application using the SDK.

MahaMudali
Jan 3, 2008, 08:26 AM
Pspsully from DEV TEAM confirmed that v1.1.3 has a new baseband!!! I guess the OTB v1.1.2 unlock is even closer... :-)

Can you show us some evidence on this, for us to believe :)

joec
Jan 3, 2008, 12:53 PM
I do not undestand all that big noise about Visual Voice Mail or the capacity to offer that: Nokia had something even better 4 years ago for the 3650. the phone was capable to have a voice responder in the phone itself. No relaunching of the call, no added costs for it. all on software basis.. and this 4 years ago, when 128mb was a lot of memory to put in your phone!

so don't tell me something similar is not possible, even better.. ;)

the sense of the innovation should be to be independent of any other company and to be better and more innovative. for many features it is, but it could be better! But earning easy money is more interesting :eek:

Joe

aceducy
Jan 4, 2008, 10:19 PM
When I said to Google my name, I meant to look at the results that WEREN'T from my own website. Talking about my bio pages on third-party websites like the conferences I speak at, or the NPR radios shows I've been on, or the fact that I was just named one of the Top 25 Innovators in Seattle by Seattle Magazine. I'm just saying, I have a professional reputation, and I wouldn't stupidly put it on the line for a fake iPhone story. I pay the bills with what I do, supporting a wife and a toddler.

As to the whole secret key thing - I don't remember ever making that arguement, unless there is another "term" for secret key? I am still unsure as to what you are referring to. The process for me was - 1) get the firmware and 2) use iTunes to update my iPhone with that firmware.

No weird third-party apps or anything like that involved.

Well, I goggled you here in Holland, and a big picture of a dildo came up. Apparently, when you squeezed the head it started talking about itself.

I mean, what's up with that?

kstefanick
Jan 9, 2008, 08:41 PM
Does anyone know when this is going to come out? I've been checking almost everyday. I'm goin' nuts.:confused:

drgardner
Jan 10, 2008, 05:18 AM
Does anyone know when this is going to come out? I've been checking almost everyday. I'm goin' nuts.:confused:

Probably depends on if it's actually legit. Maybe never.

Assuming that something will be coming out, I'd expect next week around MWSF in order to support whatever new products/features are announced. If not then, anybody's guess as the when/if.

kstefanick
Jan 10, 2008, 08:07 PM
Probably depends on if it's actually legit. Maybe never.

Assuming that something will be coming out, I'd expect next week around MWSF in order to support whatever new products/features are announced. If not then, anybody's guess as the when/if.

I figured, if it is true, that it would come out during MWSF. I hope there's an update soon that does something different other than adding international feats.

vansouza
Jan 10, 2008, 08:33 PM
My dear boy,

in France the Orange iphone Sale, as far as french friends told me, was a real flop..

Joe_c

What a surprise that the iPhone is not selling well in France; because the French are known for being so into technology... oh wait; not.

drusoicy
Jan 15, 2008, 02:04 PM
So...

What were all of you who were saying that our image gallery and video of 1.1.3 was fake thinking when Steve Jobs basically demoed everything that we demoed weeks ago, hmmmm? ;)

sananda
Jan 15, 2008, 02:07 PM
So...

What were all of you who were saying that our image gallery and video of 1.1.3 was fake thinking when Steve Jobs basically demoed everything that we demoed weeks ago, hmmmm? ;)

they're not going to say .... they're keeping themselves to themselves ... along with the people who were adamant that apple would never call something macbook air :D

emotion
Jan 15, 2008, 02:12 PM
So...

What were all of you who were saying that our image gallery and video of 1.1.3 was fake thinking when Steve Jobs basically demoed everything that we demoed weeks ago, hmmmm? ;)

Hahaha touche.

:)

Cleverboy
Jan 15, 2008, 06:04 PM
So...

What were all of you who were saying that our image gallery and video of 1.1.3 was fake thinking when Steve Jobs basically demoed everything that we demoed weeks ago, hmmmm? ;)
SO VERY VERY FAKED. Now that Steve Jobs has demoed it and exposed your lies... uh, wait a second. Ohh...

~ CB :D

P.S. I still wish I'd gotten someone to bet me.

skeen
Jan 15, 2008, 06:26 PM
I can't even understand why anyone would think it was fake. What, the video was CGI? :rolleyes: