I just witnessed chld abuse

[leekohler]

Wow- I was on the bus today and there was a woman on the bus with a little girl in a stroller who was screaming at the top of her lungs. The girl was maybe one and a half years old. At first I was completely annoyed, but figured she'd calm down after a minute. She didn't. The woman with her (I assume it was her mother) just sat there ignoring her. She screamed all the way over to where I got out. The woman got out with the little girl at my stop too. She then hit the little girl three times in the face, so hard her mouth started bleeding. Me being me, started screaming at her. I said, "Lady knock it off!" She said, "What?" I screamed, "I saw you hit her! You touch that little girl again and I'm gonna get the cops!" She just started to frantically wipe the blood off the girl's mouth. She said nothing and then started walking away with the girl screaming in the stroller. I was horrified.

The thing is- did I do the right thing? Could I have made it worse for that little girl once they got home? Also, part of me feels like I should have gotten the police. Ugh- I just felt so awful and scared to death for the girl. It's been bothering me all day. :(

[Killyp]

I'd say you did the right thing. Most people would just ignore it and take the approach that "it's none of my business", heck I don't even know if I'd be able to do that...

You couldn't exactly do much more over what you did...

[leekohler]

Thanks. I just felt really helpless I guess.

[Stampyhead]

That's a terrible story. I think you did the right thing by pointing out that you witnessed her abused. At least now she knows that people are watching her. Even if you had called the police I doubt they would have done anything since she would have been gone before they got there. I think my heart would be aching too if I had witnessed something like that. Kudos to you for saying something at least. Most people would have just stayed silent.
I understand how you feel, though. It is a helpless feeling. Think how many thousands of children are abused every day, and worse than just a slap on the mouth. All that we can do is make a difference where we can (like you did) and pray in our own way for the rest of them.

[FJ218700]

that's terrible. I was often physically disciplined as a child, but always on my backside.

Hitting an 18 month old child is way out of line. Were there multiple witnesses? I think if it had been me, and there were others present to verify the abuse, I would have followed the woman at a distance while calling the proper authorities. Who knows how many others kids she has at home receiving even worse.

[MikeTheC]

No, Leekohler, you did not do the wrong thing. You did the right thing, no matter how it works out.

It would appear the mother was using excessive means to discipline her child. It's also clear from what you didn't say that she did on her own that it wasn't an accident, or at the very least, that it actually registered on her own conscience that what she did was incorrect.

You basically pointed it out to her that what she did was wrong, and you've given her the opportunity to correct her ways as a parent. Whether she does so or not is her own personal responsibility, not yours or anyone elses'. You cannot lead her life for her, nor should you even if you could. It's up to her to take responsibility for her own actions.

The fact that you are concerned for the welfare of her child speaks volumes to your own humanity, morality, and character. Now, if you were to see a repetition of this kind of behavior from this woman, then you'd be well within your rights, both ethically and legally, to call the police and have them intervene.

[leekohler]

that's terrible. I was often physically disciplined as a child, but always on my backside.

Hitting an 18 month old child is way out of line. Were there multiple witnesses? I think if it had been me, and there were others present to verify the abuse, I would have followed the woman at a distance while calling the proper authorities. Who knows how many others kids she has at home receiving even worse.

There were people walking nearby, but I don't know who actually saw it. Plus, I just so shocked by it.

[NAG]

Yeah, that was obviously child abuse. Hopefully she'll think about it and use other methods to discipline her child, such as positive reinforcement (not that there aren't other ways, I'm just giving an example).

[mkrishnan]

No, Leekohler, you did not do the wrong thing. You did the right thing, no matter how it works out.

Yeah, you really can't stay silent with that level of violence. Making someone bleed is not in the "grey" area. The only thing I'd add is that, if at all possible, you should seriously consider reporting it. It's obviously difficult because you don't know who she is, but if there's any way you could either find out (from other passengers) or something... it would be good to have it out there. If nothing else, if this is pattern violence (which it probably is), then the more reports there are on this woman, the less anyone can find an excuse to not act on them.....

[FJ218700]

There were people walking nearby, but I don't know who actually saw it. Plus, I just so shocked by it.

no doubt you were in shock, I would have been too, probably too much to say anything. You definitely did more than most would have, the woman will probably not hit the child in public any more.

[leekohler]

No, Leekohler, you did not do the wrong thing. You did the right thing, no matter how it works out.

It would appear the mother was using excessive means to discipline her child. It's also clear from what you didn't say that she did on her own that it wasn't an accident, or at the very least, that it actually registered on her own conscience that what she did was incorrect.

You basically pointed it out to her that what she did was wrong, and you've given her the opportunity to correct her ways as a parent. Whether she does so or not is her own personal responsibility, not yours or anyone elses'. You cannot lead her life for her, nor should you even if you could. It's up to her to take responsibility for her own actions.

The fact that you are concerned for the welfare of her child speaks volumes to your own humanity, morality, and character. Now, if you were to see a repetition of this kind of behavior from this woman, then you'd be well within your rights, both ethically and legally, to call the police and have them intervene.

Thanks. Yeah, I guess I did what I should have. And if I do see her again, I'll definitely keep an eye on her.

no doubt you were in shock, I would have been too, probably too much to say anything. You definitely did more than most would have, the woman will probably not hit the child in public any more.

I was in shock. But I've never been the kind of person to just sit by when these things happen. That would make me feel so much worse if I just let it go without saying something.

[JML42691]

I would say that you did the right thing, think of it this way: if you did nothing, that child may end up growing up in an abusive environment and it may just get worse and worse. There was a sad song that came out about 5 years ago about something like this where people sat there and did nothing and the girl ended up dying, it was called Concrete Angel, I believe Martina McBride sang it, give it a listen.

[solvs]

As mad as I've gotten at kids, that's just too much. Especially with someone that young. I was worried this would be one of those gray areas too, where we who don't have kids maybe can't tell if it's stepping over the line or not. But it definitely isn't based on your description. There's discipline, and then there's abuse. That was abuse. I'm glad you said something, sadly, probably the only thing you could do. Still more than most people would. Doubt she would still be there when the cops showed up either, and it's not like you knew where she lived. That she caught herself maybe says this was a particularly bad day and she realized she went too far. Hopefully you shamed her enough to think twice next time. I don't blame you for still feeling bad, but you did a good thing.

[leekohler]

I would say that you did the right thing, think of it this way: if you did nothing, that child may end up growing up in an abusive environment and it may just get worse and worse. There was a sad song that came out about 5 years ago about something like this where people sat there and did nothing and the girl ended up dying, it was called Concrete Angel, I believe Martina McBride sang it, give it a listen.

Maybe I will. Is it gonna make me cry though? Not that that would be a bad thing, I guess.

As mad as I've gotten at kids, that's just too much. Especially with someone that young. I was worried this would be one of those gray areas too, where we who don't have kids maybe can't tell if it's stepping over the line or not. But it definitely isn't based on your description. There's discipline, and then there's abuse. That was abuse. I'm glad you said something, sadly, probably the only thing you could do. Still more than most people would. Doubt she would still be there when the cops showed up either, and it's not like you knew where she lived. That she caught herself maybe says this was a particularly bad day and she realized she went too far. Hopefully you shamed her enough to think twice next time. I don't blame you for still feeling bad, but you did a good thing.

Thanks, solvs. And thank you all- I'm starting to feel a little better.

[JML42691]

Maybe I will. Is it gonna make me cry though? Not that that would be a bad thing, I guess.
If you are an over-sensitive person, then it may make you cry a little, I don't believe that it was a true story, if that helps you a little bit.

[CalBoy]

I think you did the right thing Lee.

Honestly I think many of us would have been too shocked to say anything, and I think you deserve some credit for reacting the way you did. It couldn't have been easy (obviously not).

[leekohler]

If you are an over-sensitive person, then it may make you cry a little, I don't believe that it was a true story, if that helps you a little bit.

Ugh- well, I can be emotional at times as those of you who see me in the PRSI forum already know. :)

[::Lisa::]

Wow. I'm sorry you had to witness that. :(:mad: How awful. I'd also say you did the right thing too.

[leekohler]

Wow. I'm sorry you had to witness that. :(:mad: How awful. I'd also say you did the right thing too.

Thanks. I hope so.

[kia2060]

Breaks my heart to her that...Kids are such a gift & she was obviously letting her frustration out on an innocent baby. You did the right thing...glad I wasn't there...I would have went OFF on that woman! If you see her again, keep a close eye on her!!!~Kia

[Iscariot]

Lee, you did the right thing. Some of us might believe you should have done more, some of us might have you do less. What's important is that you acted, you didn't just shrug your shoulders and close your eyes.

The bystander effect is a very real phenomenon that has a substantial impact on our society. People have been assaulted and even murdered in crowded public areas simply because no one acted in any way. This diffusion of responsibility poses a very serious danger, especially to the defenseless. I know a girl who was dragged into an alley and raped at a subway station because nobody helped her.

Every time one of us steps up and says "No! This is not acceptable!", we help put an end to pluralistic ignorance, and help inspire others to act when necessary.

[zap2]

You acted...thats more then most people would do!

Maybe next time the lady will think!


(Although I agree she might be more abusive at home...but who knows)

[iMpathetic]

That woman needs to be treated to a little abuse herself, see how she likes it. I hate it when people stoop that low. I think that another form of child abuse is being paranoid. REALLY paranoid. There's a friend of mine (who is in 9th grade) who is not allowed to come over anymore because he scratched himself on the pedal of a bike. He pretty much doesn't leave the house now, because his mother feels that he is in a state of mortal peril every time he leaves her watch. So, in a nutshell, I think leaving someone unprepared for real life is abuse. Just my $0.02.

Geez, I was in a bad mood already...

[leekohler]

Lee, you did the right thing. Some of us might believe you should have done more, some of us might have you do less. What's important is that you acted, you didn't just shrug your shoulders and close your eyes.

The bystander effect is a very real phenomenon that has a substantial impact on our society. People have been assaulted and even murdered in crowded public areas simply because no one acted in any way. This diffusion of responsibility poses a very serious danger, especially to the defenseless. I know a girl who was dragged into an alley and raped at a subway station because nobody helped her.

Every time one of us steps up and says "No! This is not acceptable!", we help put an end to pluralistic ignorance, and help inspire others to act when necessary.

That's how I feel too. These things happen because people are afraid to get involved. I do hope this had a positive effect. Unfortunately I have no way of knowing.

That woman needs to be treated to a little abuse herself, see how she likes it.

Unfortunately, I can't agree with that. Many times abusers are people who themselves have been abused in the past. It ends up being a terrible cycle.

[sushi]

Lee, that's terrible that you had to witness something like this.

Kudos for taking action -- most don't.

[Hmac]

I applaud you for stepping up to the point that you did...most people these days wouldn't have done that.

However, I don't think you did the right thing...I think you should have called the police. If that woman would repeatedly hit her child hard enough to make her bleed in public, with people watching, what is she capable of doing, and likely to do, to that poor child when they are in private?

[Mushrooshi]

I would be very worried of getting hurt myself. I am a 14 year old, and I know if I witnessed that I would REALLY, REALLY want to tell her to stop and threaten with police too, but unfortunatly, I wouldn't know how the aggressor would act in the situation.

I know a normal person wouldn't hit me at all, but for people like these, to bloody an 18 month is just signs of scary.

Kudos.

[iMpathetic]

Unfortunately, I can't agree with that. Many times abusers are people who themselves have been abused in the past. It ends up being a terrible cycle.

Yeah, sorry. I really don't know what the hell I'm talking about, and I was just really mad. So, regard that as why not to get me mad. Not saying I do things like that, I just get real revengey.

[Doctor Q]

I wonder if the best thing to do in a situation like that is to notify the authorities. Not a threat, not a warning, just call the cops and report exactly what you witnessed. A scolding from a stranger (which I agree takes more nerve than saying nothing) might make a temporary impression, but parents who think slapping a child is acceptable are going to do it again. They might even blame the child for the scolding they got from another adult. If we can't revoke their parenting license right then and there under citizen's arrest, at least we can make sure the incident is recorded somewhere as evidence.

[miniConvert]

I think you did the right thing.

Hopefully you scared the 'abuser' enough to make them realise that what they were doing was wrong. At the same time, you've given them the chance to learn from their mistakes.

Involving the 'authorities' may not have been wise. I mean, what's the best outcome one could have hoped for?

[Spikeanator6982]

I dont think slapping is anything wrong, some kids/people need a slap once in a while, or a spanking. but..i dont think this was near the right time or situation to do it. 18 months old, of course they're gonna cry, thats not a reason to get physical with an 18 month old. pretty impressive that you said something. you did the right thing.

[mlw1235]

Do you remember if the bus had video cameras?

I know the buses in Milwaukee have the little camera bubbles at least. Maybe it was caught on tape? You never know. I would still report it.

[notjustjay]

I think that another form of child abuse is being paranoid. REALLY paranoid. There's a friend of mine (who is in 9th grade) who is not allowed to come over anymore because he scratched himself on the pedal of a bike. He pretty much doesn't leave the house now, because his mother feels that he is in a state of mortal peril every time he leaves her watch. So, in a nutshell, I think leaving someone unprepared for real life is abuse. Just my $0.02.

I have a friend who, for a time*, thought he was deathly allergic to just about everything. Why? Because his mother found it a convenient way to control him. Didn't want him trying to sneak cookies in between meals? "Don't touch those! You can't have those, you're allergic!"

I didn't even think twice about it either, I just thought he was one of those allergy kids. It wasn't until years later that my mom told me what she had been doing. The guy's my age, but you can tell that something's not quite right up there, I hope not due to the mother's creative parenting tactics.


*At least, I HOPE he's figured it out...

[blumoon]

You did the right thing by calling her on it. Who knows, she may realize what she has done and get help. It's just not normal to hit a crying toddler. Poor thing.

Good for you for not turning the other way. We never know what kind of impact we have on others.

[Prof.]

You did the right thing... next time just call the cops.

[Mike Teezie]

Lee, you're a big guy - hopefully you scared the crap out of her, and she'll think twice about putting her hands on that little girl again.

I think you did the right thing. I also know I would have a heavy heart if it were me in the exact same situation. Even though you spoke up, there's just no way to know what's in store for the poor little girl from this point onward.

[synth3tik]

I think I would have felt good by smacking that lady across the mouth, but that would have done nothing for that little girl.

Sadly it reminds me of a time in a film class. I was in charge of editing my groups video. One of the people in my group had some footage of a lady screaming at a little girl in Macy's. He then followed her out to a cab where she smacked the girl. At first I thought it was staged as a lot of our stuff was. Then reviewing it with him and the instructor I asked "Did you stage that?" he told me no. When then from the video got the cab's company and car number, the description of the lady and her kid and gave the video to the police.

I never found out what happened. My group got an A, not because of the quality of our work, but because we decided to give the tape to the police instead of finishing our video.

[thebassoonist]

Wow- I was on the bus today and there was a woman on the bus with a little girl in a stroller who was screaming at the top of her lungs. The girl was maybe one and a half years old. At first I was completely annoyed, but figured she'd calm down after a minute. She didn't. The woman with her (I assume it was her mother) just sat there ignoring her. She screamed all the way over to where I got out. The woman got out with the little girl at my stop too. She then hit the little girl three times in the face, so hard her mouth started bleeding. Me being me, started screaming at her. I said, "Lady knock it off!" She said, "What?" I screamed, "I saw you hit her! You touch that little girl again and I'm gonna get the cops!" She just started to frantically wipe the blood off the girl's mouth. She said nothing and then started walking away with the girl screaming in the stroller. I was horrified.

The thing is- did I do the right thing? Could I have made it worse for that little girl once they got home? Also, part of me feels like I should have gotten the police. Ugh- I just felt so awful and scared to death for the girl. It's been bothering me all day. :(

I think you did the right thing but...I don't know where you are from, but I know in the US it is illegal for someone to witness child abuse and not report it. You scared the mother, but she is still a child abuser and will probably do it again. You did what you could, but next time (and this is advice for everyone) call the cops. Then let them take the case from there.

I just saw that you are from Chicago. :D

[juanm]

You should have called the cops. She'll keep doing it until someone takes care of it.
I always call the cops when I see something. Often for nothing, but I guess better safe than sorry. Anyway, everythime I get in the middle of something, cops end up coming :o...

[leekohler]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I guess my reaction stems from when I was younger and bullied a lot. I made a promise to myself back then that if I ever was capable of stopping such things, I would speak up. When I was younger I was super skinny and very sensitive. I got picked on a lot and beaten up a few times. When I got older, I started working out and now am 6'3" and about 200 pounds. It can be empowering to say the least. I am no longer afraid to stand up for myself or others. I know it sounds like I'm patting myself on the back, and maybe I am. I have also unwittingly probably bullied others as a result. But this incident really upset me. I had to say something because I guess I know what it's like for no one to stand up for you. And it was a little girl, for god's sake. I guess I probably don't expect to see this woman or her girl again. I just hope I did some good. :(

[madfresh]

You did the right thing. Even if you called the cops they probably wouldn't have even caught her.

[true777]

I think you were incredibly brave doing what you did. However, for the sake of the child, I think you should also call the police and report exactly what you saw. Try to remember any details that might help identify the woman -- age, dress, where she got on and off the bus, time, did she call the child by a first name, brand of stroller, etc.

Also, make sure to call CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES in your city. They take such reports very seriously. Remember, the behavior abusive parents exhibit in public is generally only the tip of the iceberg, and what such children have to go through at home is often ten times worse. In addition, if this woman is ever cited for even more serious behavior in the future, a previous report on file at the police and at child protective services (from your report) will make sure she can't talk her way out then (e.g;., claim it was a household accident, etc).

An 18 month old toddler in a town close to us DIED recently from being hit repeatedly on the head, and the reason was that child protective services allowed him to be sent back home to his mother from the hospital where he had been reported by the doctors because of suspected abuse. The mother claimed a household accident and they let him go home because there were no prior reports on her. A few weeks later he died from blunt force trauma to his head. Autopsy showed he had been beaten black and blue repeatedly since his early BABY days, and had even been ANALLY RAPED by the mother's boyfriend. This child was 18 months old, and what he had to go through before finally dying was unspeakable.

Please report this.

[fistful]

I think you did the right thing Lee. I was in a situation in my early teenage years where my step father assaulted me in a public parking lot. He didn't injure me too bad but it sure scared the hell out of me. A bystander spoke up like you giving a few shouts at him which in turn stopped the assault. The next day children services and a police officer showed up at my school to have a talk with me. I denied the brunt of what happened because I was scared of being taken away from my mother and sisters. He came after me a few times after that where it felt like he was going to assault me physically but never laid a hand on me again after that previous incident. While you obviously were not in a position to get her license plate # to report her being reported may have scared her straight.

[leekohler]

I think you were incredibly brave doing what you did. However, for the sake of the child, I think you should also call the police and report exactly what you saw. Try to remember any details that might help identify the woman -- age, dress, where she got on and off the bus, time, did she call the child by a first name, brand of stroller, etc.

Also, make sure to call CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES in your city. They take such reports very seriously. Remember, the behavior abusive parents exhibit in public is generally only the tip of the iceberg, and what such children have to go through at home is often ten times worse. In addition, if this woman is ever cited for even more serious behavior in the future, a previous report on file at the police and at child protective services (from your report) will make sure she can't talk her way out then (e.g;., claim it was a household accident, etc).

An 18 month old toddler in a town close to us DIED recently from being hit repeatedly on the head, and the reason was that child protective services allowed him to be sent back home to his mother from the hospital where he had been reported by the doctors because of suspected abuse. The mother claimed a household accident and they let him go home because there were no prior reports on her. A few weeks later he died from blunt force trauma to his head. Autopsy showed he had been beaten black and blue repeatedly since his early BABY days, and had even been ANALLY RAPED by the mother's boyfriend. This child was 18 months old, and what he had to go through before finally dying was unspeakable.

Please report this.

I wish I could report it. But what do I tell the cops? I saw a woman on the sidewalk hit her child? Because that's all the info I have. That's kind of what made me feel so helpless.

I think you did the right thing Lee. I was in a situation in my early teenage years where my step father assaulted me in a public parking lot. He didn't injure me too bad but it sure scared the hell out of me. A bystander spoke up like you giving a few shouts at him which in turn stopped the assault. The next day children services and a police officer showed up at my school to have a talk with me. I denied the brunt of what happened because I was scared of being taken away from my mother and sisters. He came after me a few times after that where it felt like he was going to assault me physically but never laid a hand on me again after that previous incident. While you obviously were not in a position to get her license plate # to report her being reported may have scared her straight.

Oh man, I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. I hope my actions had the same effect on that woman. Thanks for posting that, it made me feel a lot better.

[eric55lv]

I saw chlid abuse at a McDonalds the other day,So I went to Wal-Mart and I got hungry so I went to McDonalds.Made an order then sat down and waited at a table and there was a guy like 5 or 4feet tall and like in his mid 40s and he walked up to the manager and compailned and yelled about his order then my order was ready got it sat down and ate the the guy yelled and punched his son he was like 1year old because he was screaming and his wife was like 4to5feet tall and like in her early 40s also did the same the yelled at his husband and started cusing all over the place they were very rude then she said im leaving and it sounded like she is cheating on him they had a fight then she took her son and puposly smacked him (REALLY REALLY hard)I could not do anything beacuse they were rude so I did not want to get in to it it was sad and to this day I feel very giulty that I did not do anything(this is like my longest post)

[EricNau]

I wish I could report it. But what do I tell the cops? I saw a woman on the sidewalk hit her child? Because that's all the info I have. That's kind of what made me feel so helpless.
Call anyway - tell them everything you can (location, physical description of mother and child). Although unlikely, maybe someone else already reported the incident and this will just reenforce their case.

Whether you have enough info or not, I'm sure they'll be appreciative.
(Note: Use your phonebook to locate your Police department's non-emergency number or CPS. Do not call 911.)

[juanm]

Sorry to revive the thread, but if you tell the cops what you saw, the estimated age of the mother, and the location, maybe (maybe, as I don't know how it works in the US) they can show you a file with already reported people and you can recognize the mother. Sometimes it depends on one small thing, and even though it'll probably bring nothing, it's one of your duties to report this kind of things. At worst, you'll lose some of your time. At best, you can hel to make a difference in this child's life.

[Abstract]

I once saw something and did something about it. One minute later, I was around 3 cm away from having my neck slit by a broken bottle.


But you did the right thing. :D You should have called the police on her, though. If that's what she'd do in public, then she's doing worse to that kid at home.