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MacRumors
Jan 1, 2008, 07:25 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple continues to make market share gains according to online trend research firm Net Applications.

Last month (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/03/apples-market-share-hitting-highs/), Net Applications reported that Apple's share was up to 6.8% with corresponding declining Windows market share. Today, Net Applications reports that the Mac has crested the 7% barrier and is at 7.31% for December 2007 (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=9&qpdt=1&qpct=4&qpcustom=Mac&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=97&qpnp=11). Meanwhile, Microsoft's Windows OS continues to decline in market share, with a still dominant 91.79% in December having eroded from 92.42% in November. Apple (and to a lesser extent, Linux) have been steadily taking market share from Microsoft for the past 6 months (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8&qptimeframe=Y&qpsp=2007&qpmr=100&qpdt=1&qpct=4).


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/01/01/CFT0101_082004217CE_500.gif

Courtesy, Net Applications

In contrast to market share numbers by firms like Gartner which combine quarterly results from the industry to give market share of sales, Net Applications market share numbers attempt to represent installed base of internet users. More on how Net Applications gets its numbers (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/)...


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/01/mac-market-share-over-7-in-december/)



Eidorian
Jan 1, 2008, 07:28 PM
More like over 9000, right?

I digress. It's good to hear especially after getting a lot of Windows + crappy Terminal clients + Xming to switch over.

Not that Xming is a bad thing.

Everyone drooled over my MacBook's looks. I drooled over Core Foundation, 64-bit, and Terminal.app.

FJ218700
Jan 1, 2008, 07:29 PM
great news, especially for AAPL stockholders over the next month.

it would be incredible to reach 10% marketshare by Jan '09

aridon
Jan 1, 2008, 07:30 PM
I looked really briefly at that link on how they calculated the data and they talked about Iphones and such under the browsers section. I'm sure the extra 5 million safari's being used helped things some.

leekohler
Jan 1, 2008, 07:30 PM
This is great! It's not surprising though. People are really starting to get it here in the city. I'm beginning to see more Macs than PCs in cafes these days.

igazza
Jan 1, 2008, 07:31 PM
9% after macworld :apple:

kinless
Jan 1, 2008, 07:33 PM
Also somewhat (and I repeat, somewhat) pleasing is that IE7 has finally overtaken IE6 (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=3) as the dominant browser.

Being a web developer that makes me giddy. Now Firefox/Safari needs to overtake them both, but we'll leave that goal for 2012.

gusapple
Jan 1, 2008, 07:35 PM
I'm not surprised. I had a friend who asked for a Mac for Christmas a few years ago. His dad said that there was no way that he would ever buy a Mac. This year, my friend asked again and because of Boot Camp, his dad went with the Mac.

2A Batterie
Jan 1, 2008, 07:40 PM
I give much of the credit to Vista. Microsoft may as well have named it Windows Frank Stallone. It's kind of like MS is a football team that's beating itself- fumbling, throwing interceptions, penalties, etc. Worst OS ever. That, and OSX just being superior, is my theory.

MonkeyClaw
Jan 1, 2008, 07:42 PM
Well my parents switched over to a nice little MacBook so I guess their helping!

space1nvaders
Jan 1, 2008, 07:46 PM
When Apple reaches 10% I think momemtum will carry them to 50%.

Eriamjh1138@DAN
Jan 1, 2008, 07:53 PM
7% is impressive. A few years ago, it was at 2%. 10% would be nice.

What this really means is that Apple hardware sales continue to increase faster than the rate of other "PC" sellers. This means more money for Apple and more adoption of OSX.

We will NEVER see 50% Apple market share. Apple can't build that many computers. In addition, we will NEVER see 50% OSX market share unless Apple opens it to generic PCs. We all know that will not happen.

kinless
Jan 1, 2008, 08:03 PM
We will NEVER see 50% Apple market share. Apple can't build that many computers. In addition, we will NEVER see 50% OSX market share unless Apple opens it to generic PCs. We all know that will not happen.

The question is...would we even WANT that to happen?

Don't we enjoy being part of the niche market and ignored by the virus writers?

countach
Jan 1, 2008, 08:04 PM
Sure you could see 50% market share. Apple is quite capable of contracting out that much manufacturing. Nobody thought at one time that MS could have 95% market share.

As for the stats, a .5% point move in one month is HUGE. If it continued the whole year that would be 6% points in a year, and AAPL stock would be $500 in a year.

.:R2theT
Jan 1, 2008, 08:04 PM
We will NEVER see 50% Apple market share. Apple can't build that many computers. In addition, we will NEVER see 50% OSX market share unless Apple opens it to generic PCs. We all know that will not happen.

I agree we will never see Apple with 50% market share. But with the kind of company Apple has become in the last 6 or 7 years, I am sure they could take care of any demand that comes. As long as that demand is organic in nature, as it is currently.

SilentLoner
Jan 1, 2008, 08:04 PM
I have to say the OS X is just a more peaceful experience in my opinion. The market share being steady would of made me happy but to see it increase is even better.

rish
Jan 1, 2008, 08:06 PM
I'm not sure how accurate the calculations are however going by interactions I have had with friends personally, I'm finding more and more people are switching to Macs. It's slow but it is definitely increasing. I've met quite a few strangers at John Lewis stores and Apple Stores contemplating the move over to Macs and given them a gentle nudge. Mind you I've taken on a few die hard Windows sales people too who then push more customers to the Mac market because of their sales tactics.

Even today a technophobe friend of mine is definite about his next purchase being a Mac within the next 2 months.

I agree with other postings. Get to 10 (or 15) percent and momentum will generate.

Working on 4 family members at this time to move over.

ThunderLounge
Jan 1, 2008, 08:17 PM
The question is...would we even WANT that to happen?

Don't we enjoy being part of the niche market and ignored by the virus writers?

Valid question. While an increase is good, too much could end up a beast.

Then again, as a lot of those windows viruses are because of microsoft, has Apple ticked people off like that? While not every virus out there is written under those premises, a good share of them are.

I think the biggest obstacle against a large (25%+) market share is attitude, competence and mindset. To illustrate, there's a lot of lemmings in line for the cliff jump.

I've got a buddy that I laugh at all the time while he reinstalls his OS because its so screwed up. Now he wants to move to even more parts, and vista. I laughed so hard I cried. He just can't comprehend that there is something better, that would keep out of his way while he works. He's a great guy, but sometimes a little dense I guess. To be honest, I think he's scared/intimidated by the thought of not having windows, and having to learn something new. Even if it's a breeze, it can be a scary thing to folks who honestly don't know what they're doing.

jackc
Jan 1, 2008, 08:17 PM
Oh no! As market share increases, my self-worth is declining!

Time to go full-blown emo.

rezonat0r
Jan 1, 2008, 08:18 PM
Don't we enjoy being part of the niche market and ignored by the virus writers?

I hope that was a joke :) But in case it wasn't...

Virus writers are not ignoring OS X at all. Going down in history as the creator of the first "real" virus for OS X is more than enough to get people trying. It hasn't happened because OS X is relatively secure and has sensible default services running.

macmike47
Jan 1, 2008, 08:19 PM
The question is...would we even WANT that to happen?

Don't we enjoy being part of the niche market and ignored by the virus writers?

Good point - while spreading the :apple:love is a kind and generous thing to do, it's quite nice being part of the minority. If Steve and friends keep going at the same rate, the market will no longer be niche.

iTeen
Jan 1, 2008, 08:22 PM
it will only continue to grow thankfully.:D

cameronjpu
Jan 1, 2008, 08:24 PM
I think the biggest obstacle against a large (25%+) market share is attitude, competence and mindset. To illustrate, there's a lot of lemmings in line for the cliff jump.

The biggest obstacle to Apple getting that high is profitability and thus price. Apple doesn't sell a PC for under $1000, but that is the VAST majority of the PC market right now, and growing. The Dells and HPs of the world aren't less profitable than Apple because they have crazy expenses, they are less profitable because they don't make 50% profits on the hardware sale like Apple does. Apple will never be able to serve the part of the market for whom $200 in upfront cost makes a large difference.

As they say - "the poor man pays twice"

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 1, 2008, 08:30 PM
Q. Will :apple: be able to keep up with product and production if it reaches 10+?

A. With a growing user base and more revenue, I am certain that :apple: is capable to handle this task. At present and in the past production and demand were not certain.

Q. With :apple: popularity Mac OS X will see more viruses and the sort?

A. Quite possible, its the nature of the beast I am afraid.

Q. Mac OS X needs to be ported to run on average PC for more market share?

A. It's possible to run Mac OS 10.5 on average PC, the problem is that it does not run 100% as native hardware. Profit is the name of :apple: game and market share is cheer second. Seems quality is being pushed down to 3rd and dropping.

Being in the minority for such a long time as a Mac user does not make me envious to reaching 10% or higher. It does not bother me in the least as long as Quality and Experience is attained. :)

TheSpecialist
Jan 1, 2008, 08:31 PM
I notice Windows fanboys browse this site too, as why the hell would someone rate this news negative. Shoo, fanboys!

iToaster
Jan 1, 2008, 08:33 PM
Figures. I was in the airport the other day and saw a large amount of people using MBs, and almost nobody with a PC... strange, but good.

SolRayz
Jan 1, 2008, 08:33 PM
Besides Apple's adverts, I've seen mostly MBP's on a disproportionate number of commercials and television shows lately. Apple is everywhere! :)

bjett92
Jan 1, 2008, 08:34 PM
This is good news and bad news. I like the fact that people are switching over, but I'm afraid that this could be too much of a bad thing. 7% is good, but as Apple's market share continues to grow, I'm afraid Apple might become more like Microsoft and care about their users less IMO.

ezekielrage_99
Jan 1, 2008, 08:38 PM
great news, especially for AAPL stockholders over the next month.

it would be incredible to reach 10% marketshare by Jan '09

I think they'll hit double figures closer to 2010 depending on there current progress now.

But still it's nice to see that Apple is expanding :cool::apple:

cameronjpu
Jan 1, 2008, 08:44 PM
Besides Apple's adverts, I've seen mostly MBP's on a disproportionate number of commercials and television shows lately. Apple is everywhere! :)

You do understand that Apple pays for those shots, right? That's not a reflection of popularity, it's simply advertising.

ezekielrage_99
Jan 1, 2008, 08:55 PM
You do understand that Apple pays for those shots, right? That's not a reflection of popularity, it's simply advertising.

You're completely right it also comes down to consumer perception of the brand from quality, usability, etc. Although Apple has seemed to have been more aggressive these past few years in getting it's message out there they are also seem by most consumers as a reputable brand.

good branding + quality product = success

mac-er
Jan 1, 2008, 08:55 PM
Sure you could see 50% market share. Apple is quite capable of contracting out that much manufacturing. Nobody thought at one time that MS could have 95% market share.


I have to agree with other posters that Apple will not reach 50% market share.
Those net numbers include enterprise.

Also, Apple will never get a large market share with the current pricing structure. Apple will hit a ceiling at some point, and I predict it will be about 15% or so.

As long as consumers can get sub-$500 desktops from Wal-Mart or whereever and build HP 17" laptops that have as much as a MacBook Pro for $1500 less, Apple's market share will stagnate at some point. It's a luxury computer.

Besides, I don't want it to get too big of a market share; it will take away some of the "magic".

BTW
Jan 1, 2008, 09:02 PM
great news, especially for AAPL stockholders over the next month.

it would be incredible to reach 10% marketshare by Jan '09

If rumors of a subnotebook are true they surely will be over 10% sometime in 2008.

Vista SP1 won't help much either. People are generally disliking Microsoft's platform - even diehards can say anything good about Vista.

uNext
Jan 1, 2008, 09:19 PM
Macs marketshare consist of.(home-cafe users and a good percentage on artistic minded individuals and design firms.

Windows marketshare consist of everything evolving around your life.
(Business, hospitals-schools etc)

I am a shareholder and an apple type of guy. But it will be extremely hard to convince worldwide companies to make the switch....If no viruses on macs campaign-more reliable etc have not done its part. Imagine companies that solely rely on microsoft products to conduct their day to day activities feel about learning and deploying new mainframes and computers with learning curves throughout their whole infrastructure to their employees that most likely never touched a mac in their life? I can just see a the executives not even accepting the idea.

I love macs their marketshare will go up but within the same realm it is now....

15% tops-i dont see them gaining 50% of enterprise business.

itcheroni
Jan 1, 2008, 09:31 PM
but as Apple's market share continues to grow, I'm afraid Apple might become more like Microsoft and care about their users less IMO.


It's funny how some people here think Apple makes products out of the goodness of their hearts (this perception is all part of their marketing). However they're making and marketing their computers now will not be effected simply because they're selling more of them. How did Apple change from 2004-2006 when they became a monopoly in the mp3 market?

Besides, they will never higher than 20-30% of the computer market. They have 70% of the mp3 market because their iPods cost roughly the same per capacity as other mp3 players. Despite the usual argument(that if you add up isight, remote, blah blah blah it's comparable), you can't get an Apple laptop for $600, which you can sometimes find in the PC world. For the price of a cheap Macbook, you can get a PC laptop with the specs of a MBP. Most people buy a computer because they have to, and they're not going to spend a few extra hundred dollars for photobooth and a remote. And they wouldn't really use it enough to benefit from what everyone else will mention.

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 1, 2008, 09:34 PM
Macs marketshare consist of.(home-cafe users and a good percentage on artistic minded individuals and design firms.

Windows marketshare consist of everything evolving around your life.
(Business, hospitals-schools etc)

I am a shareholder and an apple type of guy. But it will be extremely hard to convince worldwide companies to make the switch....If no viruses on macs campaign-more reliable etc have not done its part. Imagine companies that solely rely on microsoft products to conduct their day to day activities feel about learning and deploying new mainframes and computers with learning curves throughout their whole infrastructure to their employees that most likely never touched a mac in their life? I can just see a the executives not even accepting the idea.

I love macs their marketshare will go up but within the same realm it is now....

15% tops-i dont see them gaining 50% of enterprise business.

You are right to an extent, the point is not to convert the mass industry quickly as possible. However to penetrate the youth market and the small-mid sized businesses. Once the youth of the world mature they will implement :apple: products to the well known companies we know of today. SLowly but surely it will happen. 10-20 years I say.

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 1, 2008, 09:37 PM
It's funny how some people here think Apple makes products out of the goodness of their hearts (this perception is all part of their marketing). However they're making and marketing their computers now will not be effected simply because they're selling more of them. How did Apple change from 2004-2006 when they became a monopoly in the mp3 market?

Besides, they will never higher than 20-30% of the computer market. They have 70% of the mp3 market because their iPods cost roughly the same per capacity as other mp3 players. Despite the usual argument(that if you add up isight, remote, blah blah blah it's comparable), you can't get an Apple laptop for $600, which you can sometimes find in the PC world. For the price of a cheap Macbook, you can get a PC laptop with the specs of a MBP. Most people buy a computer because they have to, and they're not going to spend a few extra hundred dollars for photobooth and a remote. And they wouldn't really use it enough to benefit from what everyone else will mention.

Though prices for :apple: hardware have come down in price, its their profit margin that makes up the most part of the cost of their products. R&D is not cheap. ;)

How many companies are creating products that have the luster of consumers, not many. :apple: is doing a fine job thus far. :)

bjett92
Jan 1, 2008, 09:37 PM
It's funny how some people here think Apple makes products out of the goodness of their hearts (this perception is all part of their marketing). However they're making and marketing their computers now will not be effected simply because they're selling more of them. How did Apple change from 2004-2006 when they became a monopoly in the mp3 market?

Besides, they will never higher than 20-30% of the computer market. They have 70% of the mp3 market because their iPods cost roughly the same per capacity as other mp3 players. Despite the usual argument(that if you add up isight, remote, blah blah blah it's comparable), you can't get an Apple laptop for $600, which you can sometimes find in the PC world. For the price of a cheap Macbook, you can get a PC laptop with the specs of a MBP. Most people buy a computer because they have to, and they're not going to spend a few extra hundred dollars for photobooth and a remote. And they wouldn't really use it enough to benefit from what everyone else will mention.

It's not their products that I think they care about their customers in, it's their support. The Genius Bar as always been a friendly place for service and very helpful and so has apple care. But any other company service center is terrible. I hate Dell and other PC maker's service centers.

madfresh
Jan 1, 2008, 09:38 PM
Apple will be the next Microsoft soon. :(

bjett92
Jan 1, 2008, 09:40 PM
Apple will be the next Microsoft soon. :(

That's what I first thought, I just hope Apple won't change how great of a company they are.

FJ218700
Jan 1, 2008, 09:51 PM
I think they'll hit double figures closer to 2010 depending on there current progress now.

But still it's nice to see that Apple is expanding :cool::apple:

as someone else alluded to, the rumored sub-notebook will fill a niche currently provided only by platforms sporting MS software. If Apple markets the sub-compact correctly, I a further 3% increase in the coming year may not be that unrealistic.

Roy
Jan 1, 2008, 09:58 PM
Sure you could see 50% market share. Apple is quite capable of contracting out that much manufacturing. Nobody thought at one time that MS could have 95% market share.

As for the stats, a .5% point move in one month is HUGE. If it continued the whole year that would be 6% points in a year, and AAPL stock would be $500 in a year.

This is not a true Apples-to-Apples comparison. Apple makes the system software (OS X) and you must buy Apple's hardware to run their system. Microsoft makes the system (Vista), but other companies make the hardware for Vista to run on.

SheriffParker
Jan 1, 2008, 10:05 PM
You do understand that Apple pays for those shots, right? That's not a reflection of popularity, it's simply advertising.

Sometimes I see Apple computers in adverts and such, but the Apple logos and writing have all been airbrushed off, as if its some brandless computer.

Is this because the advertisers don't want to work with Apple, or is it Apple who wants to remain anonymous?

pomus
Jan 1, 2008, 10:07 PM
I think the biggest obstacle against a large (25%+) market share is attitude, competence and mindset. To illustrate, there's a lot of lemmings in line for the cliff jump.

I've got a buddy that I laugh at all the time while he reinstalls his OS because its so screwed up. Now he wants to move to even more parts, and vista. I laughed so hard I cried. He just can't comprehend that there is something better, that would keep out of his way while he works. He's a great guy, but sometimes a little dense I guess. To be honest, I think he's scared/intimidated by the thought of not having windows, and having to learn something new. Even if it's a breeze, it can be a scary thing to folks who honestly don't know what they're doing.

Agreed, I know people who call the geek squad to install the printer they bought when all they have to do is 1)plug in usb cable 2)plug in power cord 3) power on. :rolleyes:

chelsel
Jan 1, 2008, 10:14 PM
I give much of the credit to Vista. You should give the credit to Intel... PowerPC was a lemon (of course, Apple agrees or they wouldn't have switched).

FJ218700
Jan 1, 2008, 10:17 PM
You should give the credit to Intel... PowerPC was a lemon (of course, Apple agrees or they wouldn't have switched).

how were PPC platforms lemons?

ChrisA
Jan 1, 2008, 10:18 PM
When Apple reaches 10% I think momemtum will carry them to 50%.

I can never get to 50%. Apple sells computers in the $1000 to $2,500 price point. Even if 100% of the people who buy at those prices bought Apple it would not be 50% of the total market because a huge majority of the market is at the under $1K price point. Apple simply ignores the largest market segment.

La Porta
Jan 1, 2008, 10:25 PM
Apple won't become a Microsoft. They had far bigger market share back when with the Apple II, and we didn't head off into hell...

chelsel
Jan 1, 2008, 10:26 PM
how were PPC platforms lemons?

I say that based on Apples decision... if they chose Intel then there must be something wrong with PPC... otherwise they wouldn't have changed their entire processor lineup...

winmacguy
Jan 1, 2008, 10:35 PM
I agree we will never see Apple with 50% market share. But with the kind of company Apple has become in the last 6 or 7 years, I am sure they could take care of any demand that comes. As long as that demand is organic in nature, as it is currently.

For the record, Apple DOESN'T build its own hardware it designs it and farms it off to Foxconn and other Asian manufacturers who then manufacture it so to go from 2.6 million units per quarter currently to say 5million units per quarter would just require planning and ramping up the manufacturing process followed by the same again to go from 5 million Macs per quarter to 7.5million Macs per quarter this time next year.

Roy
Jan 1, 2008, 10:36 PM
I say that based on Apples decision... if they chose Intel then there must be something wrong with PPC... otherwise they wouldn't have changed their entire processor lineup...


Steve Jobs: "Intel processors provide more performance per watt than PowerPC."

My G4 (Digital Audio) tower was debuted at MacWorld 2001. I ordered it from the Apple Store the day after it debuted. I'm running 10.4.11 and the computer still works fine on its 8th birthday. (I am glad I skipped the liquid cooled G5 towers. My understanding is there has been a good bit of trouble with some of those).

rikers_mailbox
Jan 1, 2008, 10:38 PM
Where are the error bars on this chart?

The trend looks flat to me. Maybe slightly trending upward, but nothing significant. I need a more dramatic slope change to be convinced.

Oh, and go Apple. ;)

gusapple
Jan 1, 2008, 10:38 PM
The Genius Bar as always been a friendly place for service and very helpful and so has apple care. But any other company service center is terrible. I hate Dell and other PC maker's service centers.

I'm sorry, but every time that I go to the Apple Store, the Genius treats me like a four year old. Possibly the fact that I'm a teen could account for that, but, I would bet that I know more than half of the people working in that store about Macs and iPods (Geniuses excluded).;)

DOUGHNUT
Jan 1, 2008, 10:39 PM
how were PPC platforms lemons?

well....if Apple never switched to Intel...we'd still be asking for our PowerBook G5's. Apple switched because PPC hit a dead-end and wasn't going any further. Intel on the other hand has a much more aggressive roadmap (new processors coming out every few month) much more mobile friendly and allows for users to run Windows natively. Intel transition is the biggest reason why Mac marketshare has been growing so drastically and so consistently over the past 2 years.

ezekielrage_99
Jan 1, 2008, 10:39 PM
as someone else alluded to, the rumored sub-notebook will fill a niche currently provided only by platforms sporting MS software. If Apple markets the sub-compact correctly, I a further 3% increase in the coming year may not be that unrealistic.

I agree, but at the moment the compact laptop isn't anything more than rumorware until Apple releases(?) one it's nothing more than rumor.

If they do fill a few gaps in their product line then I think you will see an increase to 10% but until then I don't think you'll see 10% marketshare by the end of 2008 despite how well Apple is doing, and I do think Apple is going from strength to strength.

uNext
Jan 1, 2008, 11:07 PM
You are right to an extent, the point is not to convert the mass industry quickly as possible. However to penetrate the youth market and the small-mid sized businesses. Once the youth of the world mature they will implement :apple: products to the well known companies we know of today. SLowly but surely it will happen. 10-20 years I say.

Your right.
I just recently started my own small business
I only deal with nothing but macs.....The problem i have is that
while i would love to just completely get rid of Microsoft i cant.
I use ringcentral as my main 800-provider and they have a very useful application that is windows only...I use u.p.s only to ship my goods and unfortunately their world-ship software only run on microsoft windows.

So while i have 3 imacs 2 macbook pros in the office unfortunately all have to be running windows for the entire day.......

Some small business might want to make the switch, dealing with a mac is less prone to headaches then dealing with windows. But, the software compatibility is extremely limited specially key software needed to run a business.

I think when key companies start supporting mac thats when we can expect a full share gain till then it will remain capped within the current user groups.

ebouwman
Jan 1, 2008, 11:18 PM
Sure you could see 50% market share. Apple is quite capable of contracting out that much manufacturing. Nobody thought at one time that MS could have 95% market share.

As for the stats, a .5% point move in one month is HUGE. If it continued the whole year that would be 6% points in a year, and AAPL stock would be $500 in a year.

It won't steadily continue though, i can almost guarantee it, I think that the reason it changed a whopping .5% is because of Christmas. It will probably keep following the trend, but i think the sharp change only really happens when lots of computers are sold, like at back to school season, and xmas.

I may be wrong because i don't really know much about economics and such.

What I really would like to see are the sales numbers for mac vs. PC.

Digitalclips
Jan 1, 2008, 11:21 PM
Figures. I was in the airport the other day and saw a large amount of people using MBs, and almost nobody with a PC... strange, but good.

I was in quite a few airports in October and saw the same thing, Macs everywhere, both in UK and US airports. I even saw a pilot checking some on line databases with a MacBook.

On another point: Statements like 'Apple can never reach 50%' puzzle me, why the hell not? I remember when Apple had far higher % than MS and no one thought the tables could change the other way but they did. Just figure out how many PC users change their computers every few years and what if half of them decided to get the only computer than runs OS X and Windows? I do agree a low end low priced Mac would help a great deal. Perhaps we will see one in a new form factor soon?

ebouwman
Jan 1, 2008, 11:25 PM
Your right.
I just recently started my own small business
I only deal with nothing but macs.....The problem i have is that
while i would love to just completely get rid of Microsoft i cant.
I use ringcentral as my main 800-provider and they have a very useful application that is windows only...I use u.p.s only to ship my goods and unfortunately their world-ship software only run on microsoft windows.

So while i have 3 imacs 2 macbook pros in the office unfortunately all have to be running windows for the entire day.......

Some small business might want to make the switch, dealing with a mac is less prone to headaches then dealing with windows. But, the software compatibility is extremely limited specially key software needed to run a business.

I think when key companies start supporting mac thats when we can expect a full share gain till then it will remain capped within the current user groups.

Some changes are slowly happening though.

MS Office mac is a good step...

I know a kid who's dad is a lawyer, and they went and put all macs in the office. Now they may use windows for some aspect of the business but i don't really know for sure.

PetMac
Jan 1, 2008, 11:33 PM
It would be nice to see Mac share over 10%. If goes even higher, great. I can't see it ever going much above 20%, but what do I know.
What this really means to me is I no longer have to worry about Apple surviving. That was not the case not so very long ago. Thank God I will never have to use windows as my everyday OS.

Gunga Din
Jan 2, 2008, 12:08 AM
Well, i'm not a MAC user yet. Still waiting on news from the EXPO in Jan. That being said.... i've owned 3 Dell Computers since 1996. Ive never had an issue with the computers or customer service in all that time. Top end components at great prices and plenty of choices when building them.

The Dell i use now is 4 yrs old and can play almost any game with ease, and thats using an AGP card.

So why am i looking at Apple? Well i'm since my Dell is handling the few games i play and i'm not too heavy of a gamer, i want a computer that offers me a more friendly OS and better software for music, video etc.

Vista has been very disappointing to me. I don't want to buy another Dell because i feel Vista is not the upgrade or direction i want to go in at this time. If Vista was really nice and offered a bunch of innovative changes...i probably wouldnt be here talking with you all. But thats not the case.

A friend of mine has been trying to get me to switch for yrs and i own 2 ipods that i really enjoy. I like apple products but in the past ...... they couldnt match what i could purchase from Dell for the price.

With the addition of Intel Chips and better hardware, that gap has closed in my mind. I might have bought an IMAC this Christmas if it wasnt for the half-ass vid card they ship with it. I know i'm not getting a mac for gaming, but they definately can throw us a bone and upgrade that card.

So now, since i don't know of any proposed changes to upgrade the IMAC, I'm leaning towards the Mac Pro Notebook. Its alot of $$$ , but i feel its more justified than the IMAC.

So whats my main pt? You know Apple is making the right moves if it can swing a guy like me who has had no issues with Dell's for 12 yrs. So kudos to u Apple users. I hope i can join you sometime this yr with my first Apple computer purchase. I think your a great community and can't wait till they release the MAC that just makes me think "bingo !" .

Cheers.

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 2, 2008, 12:38 AM
Your right.
I just recently started my own small business
I only deal with nothing but macs.....The problem i have is that
while i would love to just completely get rid of Microsoft i cant.
I use ringcentral as my main 800-provider and they have a very useful application that is windows only...I use u.p.s only to ship my goods and unfortunately their world-ship software only run on microsoft windows.

So while i have 3 imacs 2 macbook pros in the office unfortunately all have to be running windows for the entire day.......

Some small business might want to make the switch, dealing with a mac is less prone to headaches then dealing with windows. But, the software compatibility is extremely limited specially key software needed to run a business.

I think when key companies start supporting mac thats when we can expect a full share gain till then it will remain capped within the current user groups.

I am working on an in-house solution similar to RingCentral, my shipping requirement are done with CanadaPost online application. I use Parallels Desktop when I have no other choice.

Give it 10% market-share and you will see these windows only software be ported over. If not there is alway an in-house option that I do not mind implementing. :)

itcheroni
Jan 2, 2008, 12:42 AM
Though prices for :apple: hardware have come down in price, its their profit margin that makes up the most part of the cost of their products. R&D is not cheap. ;)

How many companies are creating products that have the luster of consumers, not many. :apple: is doing a fine job thus far. :)

I see your point but I think you missed mine. I'm happy paying more for my computer. My point was that Apple will never have 50% market share because of the price; I'm not saying the price is a problem. See? We're not in disagreement.

itcheroni
Jan 2, 2008, 12:44 AM
It's not their products that I think they care about their customers in, it's their support. The Genius Bar as always been a friendly place for service and very helpful and so has apple care. But any other company service center is terrible. I hate Dell and other PC maker's service centers.

I don't understand how your post is a response to mine. It seems the longer I've been in law school, the less I am able to communicate clearly with people. :rolleyes:

I think it seemed like I was complaining about the price when I was just trying the explain that the price is the reason Apple's market share will have a ceiling.

twoodcc
Jan 2, 2008, 12:45 AM
good news. now we need to get to double digits soon....

lazyrighteye
Jan 2, 2008, 12:45 AM
Good point - while spreading the :apple:love is a kind and generous thing to do, it's quite nice being part of the minority. If Steve and friends keep going at the same rate, the market will no longer be niche.

The day the iPod landed was the day that niche died.
Not necessarily complaining, just saying.

10% in '08 would be remarkable.
Maybe its the Kool-aid, but those numbers even seem possible.

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 2, 2008, 12:47 AM
Well, i'm not a MAC user yet. Still waiting on news from the EXPO in Jan. That being said.... i've owned 3 Dell Computers since 1996. Ive never had an issue with the computers or customer service in all that time. Top end components at great prices and plenty of choices when building them.

The Dell i use now is 4 yrs old and can play almost any game with ease, and thats using an AGP card.

So why am i looking at Apple? Well i'm since my Dell is handling the few games i play and i'm not too heavy of a gamer, i want a computer that offers me a more friendly OS and better software for music, video etc.

Vista has been very disappointing to me. I don't want to buy another Dell because i feel Vista is not the upgrade or direction i want to go in at this time. If Vista was really nice and offered a bunch of innovative changes...i probably wouldnt be here talking with you all. But thats not the case.

A friend of mine has been trying to get me to switch for yrs and i own 2 ipods that i really enjoy. I like apple products but in the past ...... they couldnt match what i could purchase from Dell for the price.

With the addition of Intel Chips and better hardware, that gap has closed in my mind. I might have bought an IMAC this Christmas if it wasnt for the half-ass vid card they ship with it. I know i'm not getting a mac for gaming, but they definately can throw us a bone and upgrade that card.

So now, since i don't know of any proposed changes to upgrade the IMAC, I'm leaning towards the Mac Pro Notebook. Its alot of $$$ , but i feel its more justified than the IMAC.

So whats my main pt? You know Apple is making the right moves if it can swing a guy like me who has had no issues with Dell's for 12 yrs. So kudos to u Apple users. I hope i can join you sometime this yr with my first Apple computer purchase. I think your a great community and can't wait till they release the MAC that just makes me think "bingo !" .

Cheers.


Congratulations on the decision(s) that you plan on or already have made on your purchase. Your opinion reminds me of the whole osx86 project, where windows users are running OS 10.5 on Dell and various other boxes and though some have had success (though not 100%), others are still trying. Good to see.

However the author of the project is planning on buying a new MacMini because he wants to learn more about OS 10.5, though he had the option and knowledge to buy another PC and run OS 10.5, he chose to go with the MacMini. An oxymoron. :)

I would not recommend the iMac, if you are strapped for cash purchase a MacMini. I personally have a PowerBook G3 pismo (RIP), iMac G5 20", and SR 17" Hi-Res MBP. And plan on buying a MacMini once the ACD get an worthy update. :)

Could buy an HDCP display however since I invest in :apple: I like to give myself a cut. ;)

itcheroni
Jan 2, 2008, 12:53 AM
Some changes are slowly happening though.

MS Office mac is a good step...

I know a kid who's dad is a lawyer, and they went and put all macs in the office. Now they may use windows for some aspect of the business but i don't really know for sure.

Lawyers can use whatever computer they want because all they need it for is web browsing and word.

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 2, 2008, 12:55 AM
I see your point but I think you missed mine. I'm happy paying more for my computer. My point was that Apple will never have 50% market share because of the price; I'm not saying the price is a problem. See? We're not in disagreement.

True that at present pricing schemes :apple: will not get to 50%, however you are not looking ahead. Component prices, and even the cut to :apple: profit margin (looking at the iPhone/ iTouch, etc) has decreased quite a bit comparing the days of the G3/G4/G5 PPC era.

I would say that if :apple: wants a higher market-share they will make cuts across the board to reach that goal. However at present they corporate agenda is focused on something else, we are being short-sighted to say that it might not happen. :apple: Has years to reach 50% if they want, it does not have to happen overnight.

Is :apple: milking they consumer base or are they raking in profits for something else that will be unbelievable.

If you look at :apple: history it has profited from consumers from hardware and bought other companies improving the software such as FCP, Shake, etc... does the consumer benefit in the end, yes we all do....does this give :apple: more profit to make more acquisitions for other companies to improve its bottom-line, most likely.

itcheroni
Jan 2, 2008, 01:13 AM
True that at present pricing schemes :apple: will not get to 50%, however you are not looking ahead. Component prices, and even the cut to :apple: profit margin (looking at the iPhone/ iTouch, etc) has decreased quite a bit comparing the days of the G3/G4/G5 PPC era.

I would say that if :apple: wants a higher market-share they will make cuts across the board to reach that goal. However at present they corporate agenda is focused on something else, we are being short-sighted to say that it might not happen. :apple: Has years to reach 50% if they want, it does not have to happen overnight.

Is :apple: milking they consumer base or are they raking in profits for something else that will be unbelievable.

If you look at :apple: history it has profited from consumers from hardware and bought other companies improving the software such as FCP, Shake, etc... does the consumer benefit in the end, yes we all do....does this give :apple: more profit to make more acquisitions for other companies to improve its bottom-line, most likely.

I have to disagree with you there. Apple will never lower their prices for the prospect of gaining market share. Really, what's so great about market share? Market share doesn't necessarily correlate to profits. Dell sells 5X more computers than Apple but they certainly don't make as much. Less market share with a high profit margin also gives a little room for mistakes. I just have a really hard time seeing the appeal of high volume and low margins.

jmsait19
Jan 2, 2008, 01:18 AM
This is not a true Apples-to-Apples comparison. Apple makes the system software (OS X) and you must buy Apple's hardware to run their system. Microsoft makes the system (Vista), but other companies make the hardware for Vista to run on.

Exactly.

Apple has to manufacture actual computer and software while Microsoft only presses discs... Apple would have to greatly expand their facilities to hit the 50% mark...

I'd like to see a hardware comparison to see how many dells were sold compared to Apple compared to HP and such. Not that it would have a whole lot of bearing on anything, it would just be interesting, since Apple dabbles in both hardware and software...

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 2, 2008, 01:32 AM
I have to disagree with you there. Apple will never lower their prices for the prospect of gaining market share. Really, what's so great about market share? Market share doesn't necessarily correlate to profits. Dell sells 5X more computers than Apple but they certainly don't make as much. Less market share with a high profit margin also gives a little room for mistakes. I just have a really hard time seeing the appeal of high volume and low margins.

No one can predict the future, and I am not implying that your opinion is outright incorrect. I could be wrong on this issue.

As neither of us are the CEO of :apple:, and its hard for any company to predict market and consumers +/- response over a year+ in advance, it is safe to say that profits is its main agenda.

It does not bother me what the market share is 1-10 years down the road, however its good for any company to grow in a positive direction.

iPod were a high-end mp3 market when first introduced and over the generations has dropped in price due to component cost and need for greater market-share which in turn affected the introduction of the iPhone (which dropped in price a month or so later), switch to better mobile based processors (intel), higher capacity iPods with the same price if not lower price structure, etc...

No one can say for certain the direction an highly secretive company such as Apple will take.


MR should start a POLL if it does not exist already.

What is more important to the MUG/MRU?

1. Market-Share
2. Profit.
3. Uncertain.

thejadedmonkey
Jan 2, 2008, 01:34 AM
Lawyers can use whatever computer they want because all they need it for is web browsing and word.

Not true at all. There's all sorts of Windows only form software that lawyers need.

FX120
Jan 2, 2008, 02:21 AM
Sorry to burst everyones bubbles, but there are two main reasons for the increase in market share in the last few months:

First, the consumer purchasing season.

Second, most corporations have been holding off on their hardware purchases untill Vista SP 1 which is soon to be released.

I wouldn't be surprised if you see Apple's market share fall to 5% or lower for a month or two while corporations start making large purchases of updated hardware and consumer purchasing falls off in the spring.

itcheroni
Jan 2, 2008, 02:26 AM
Not true at all. There's all sorts of Windows only form software that lawyers need.

Can you give me an example because I'm drawing a blank. Other than access to Westlaw, I can't think of anything else you need. And technically speaking, you don't even really need a computer at all if you have access to a law library.

itcheroni
Jan 2, 2008, 02:30 AM
Sorry to burst everyones bubbles, but there are two main reasons for the increase in market share in the last few months:

First, the consumer purchasing season.

Second, most corporations have been holding off on their hardware purchases untill Vista SP 1 which is soon to be released.

I wouldn't be surprised if you see Apple's market share fall to 5% or lower for a month or two while corporations start making large purchases of updated hardware and consumer purchasing falls off in the spring.

If they're replacing hardware, wouldn't the impact on market share be the same as if they just kept the old hardware?

Don.Key
Jan 2, 2008, 02:33 AM
I hope that was a joke :) But in case it wasn't...

Virus writers are not ignoring OS X at all. Going down in history as the creator of the first "real" virus for OS X is more than enough to get people trying. It hasn't happened because OS X is relatively secure and has sensible default services running.

You are living in the dreamworld.

First of all, OSX is as full of exploitable bugs as any other OS out there. The bigger the code the bigger number of bugs, there is NO bug-free code out there. Look at iPhone which runs OSX and its hacks.

Secondly, Windows is fairly secure OS by itself today, one of the main infection mechanisms today are viruses which are DELIBERATELY executed by idiots using computers. People become very stupid when you promise them a x-mas e-card or naked pics. Trust me, they will input their password and give the virus full root access to OSX.

GoKyu
Jan 2, 2008, 02:57 AM
I, too, am still a PC user (since the dark, er, DOS days), but come January 15th (and hell, high water, or no new Mac Pro news), I *will* be buying my first Mac.

Frankly, I'm just sick and tired of "dealing" with Windows. I'm a Linux user from way back ('92 or '93), so the UNIX underpinnings of OS X interest me. Not having to deal with viruses and spyware (or the CPU-sucking cycles of software needed to prevent them) is a huge plus, as well as my recent change in focus on using the computer to begin with (i.e. I've taken up using Photoshop and Lightroom as some of the main things I do with my computer - I don't really play games anymore, except for MAME, which I know is available for the Mac.)

I also consider a Mac an actual investment because of the cost (Mac Pro = big $$$), but it's a machine I won't likely need to upgrade for many years (especially with 8 cores...even Photoshop CS3 doesn't take advantage of THAT many yet, I don't think.) -- With a PC, you can buy the components cheap and get some good deals, but at the end of the useful life, you either make incremental upgrades or (more likely) just throw the damned thing away (or sell it to a friend for a few bucks - that's all it's worth.)

Macs, on the other hand, have (what I've seen) relatively crazy resale value, where you might actually make back nearly half of your original cost (sometimes slightly more) if it's a good system, loaded with features (and RAM.))

So I can't wait...only 2 more weeks until I'll be ordering my new system!

-Bryan

JFreak
Jan 2, 2008, 03:08 AM
Growth is good, but I'm not impressed until Apple has +10% worldwide market share.

MacFly123
Jan 2, 2008, 03:54 AM
I, too, am still a PC user (since the dark, er, DOS days), but come January 15th (and hell, high water, or no new Mac Pro news), I *will* be buying my first Mac.

Frankly, I'm just sick and tired of "dealing" with Windows. I'm a Linux user from way back ('92 or '93), so the UNIX underpinnings of OS X interest me. Not having to deal with viruses and spyware (or the CPU-sucking cycles of software needed to prevent them) is a huge plus, as well as my recent change in focus on using the computer to begin with (i.e. I've taken up using Photoshop and Lightroom as some of the main things I do with my computer - I don't really play games anymore, except for MAME, which I know is available for the Mac.)

I also consider a Mac an actual investment because of the cost (Mac Pro = big $$$), but it's a machine I won't likely need to upgrade for many years (especially with 8 cores...even Photoshop CS3 doesn't take advantage of THAT many yet, I don't think.) -- With a PC, you can buy the components cheap and get some good deals, but at the end of the useful life, you either make incremental upgrades or (more likely) just throw the damned thing away (or sell it to a friend for a few bucks - that's all it's worth.)

Macs, on the other hand, have (what I've seen) relatively crazy resale value, where you might actually make back nearly half of your original cost (sometimes slightly more) if it's a good system, loaded with features (and RAM.))

So I can't wait...only 2 more weeks until I'll be ordering my new system!

-Bryan

:) Congrats, I always get excited when we get a new member of the family :)

netdog
Jan 2, 2008, 03:57 AM
Sorry to burst everyones bubbles, but there are two main reasons for the increase in market share in the last few months:

First, the consumer purchasing season.


Gee, that's funny. They didn't have over 7% market share last Christmas. :rolleyes:

Marx55
Jan 2, 2008, 04:07 AM
TO THE ADMINS:

Which market share? USA? Worldwide? It is not the same. Thanks.

gifford
Jan 2, 2008, 04:16 AM
I agree we will never see Apple with 50% market share. But with the kind of company Apple has become in the last 6 or 7 years, I am sure they could take care of any demand that comes. As long as that demand is organic in nature, as it is currently.

Apple only has to dominate the smartphone industry and that 50% does not look too out of reach. The next generation of smart phones will effectively be 'proper' computers, this year the line between mobile/computer will be blurred .

FAR more Mobiles than Computers are sold. And the mobile industry will be a pushover for apple.

cycocelica
Jan 2, 2008, 04:20 AM
Apple can do better

inkswamp
Jan 2, 2008, 04:25 AM
Apple will be the next Microsoft soon. :(

http://dallasmorningviews.beloblog.com/archives/debbie_downer.jpg

Man, I wanna party with you so bad. :rolleyes:

gifford
Jan 2, 2008, 04:27 AM
I have to agree with other posters that Apple will not reach 50% market share.
Those net numbers include enterprise.

Also, Apple will never get a large market share with the current pricing structure. Apple will hit a ceiling at some point, and I predict it will be about 15% or so.

As long as consumers can get sub-$500 desktops from Wal-Mart or whereever and build HP 17" laptops that have as much as a MacBook Pro for $1500 less, Apple's market share will stagnate at some point. It's a luxury computer.

Besides, I don't want it to get too big of a market share; it will take away some of the "magic".

The iPhone will effectively and eventually be Apple's sub $500 computer.

inkswamp
Jan 2, 2008, 04:29 AM
Sorry to burst everyones bubbles, but there are two main reasons for the increase in market share in the last few months:

First, the consumer purchasing season.

Second, most corporations have been holding off on their hardware purchases untill Vista SP 1 which is soon to be released.

I wouldn't be surprised if you see Apple's market share fall to 5% or lower for a month or two while corporations start making large purchases of updated hardware and consumer purchasing falls off in the spring.

Thanks for the insightful analysis, Mr. Ballmer. I'd ask you to remind us of all those reasons the iPhone will fail but I don't want any chairs flying around. :D

Stella
Jan 2, 2008, 07:02 AM
Apple only has to dominate the smartphone industry and that 50% does not look too out of reach. The next generation of smart phones will effectively be 'proper' computers, this year the line between mobile/computer will be blurred .

FAR more Mobiles than Computers are sold. And the mobile industry will be a pushover for apple.

I doubt whether Apple will ever hit 50% smartphone marketshare. Whilst Apple does exclusivity with carriers, there's no way that iPhone will get above 10%. At the moment, there are two other barriers - upfront high cost of phone AND high contract prices. But you say, the iPod still got successful despite its high price? Yes, it did, but cell phones are in a different market - people don't want to pay $$$ upfront with high contract price on top.

Anyway, 7% marketshare is great, but Apple still needs much more!

Digitalclips
Jan 2, 2008, 07:13 AM
Well, i'm not a MAC user yet. Still waiting on news from the EXPO in Jan. That being said.... i've owned 3 Dell Computers since 1996. Ive never had an issue with the computers or customer service in all that time. Top end components at great prices and plenty of choices when building them.

The Dell i use now is 4 yrs old and can play almost any game with ease, and thats using an AGP card.

So why am i looking at Apple? Well i'm since my Dell is handling the few games i play and i'm not too heavy of a gamer, i want a computer that offers me a more friendly OS and better software for music, video etc.

Vista has been very disappointing to me. I don't want to buy another Dell because i feel Vista is not the upgrade or direction i want to go in at this time. If Vista was really nice and offered a bunch of innovative changes...i probably wouldnt be here talking with you all. But thats not the case.

A friend of mine has been trying to get me to switch for yrs and i own 2 ipods that i really enjoy. I like apple products but in the past ...... they couldnt match what i could purchase from Dell for the price.

With the addition of Intel Chips and better hardware, that gap has closed in my mind. I might have bought an IMAC this Christmas if it wasnt for the half-ass vid card they ship with it. I know i'm not getting a mac for gaming, but they definately can throw us a bone and upgrade that card.

So now, since i don't know of any proposed changes to upgrade the IMAC, I'm leaning towards the Mac Pro Notebook. Its alot of $$$ , but i feel its more justified than the IMAC.

So whats my main pt? You know Apple is making the right moves if it can swing a guy like me who has had no issues with Dell's for 12 yrs. So kudos to u Apple users. I hope i can join you sometime this yr with my first Apple computer purchase. I think your a great community and can't wait till they release the MAC that just makes me think "bingo !" .

Cheers.

What a great post. You will enjoy your Macs (I pluralize as there will be more ...).

One thing I always think is that I'd rather have both a MacBook and an iMac for the same $s as a high end MacBook Pro unless I really had to have that much power when on the road.

However I agree on video card for iMac too. I have long used high end Mac Desktops but to be honest I would get to an iMac with the big screen but for that. Perhaps that's the reason Apple keep it held back but frankly the CPU differences in the high end desktops should be enough to differentiate the two lines so please Apple let's have a kick ass video card in a high end iMac as an option :)

Digitalclips
Jan 2, 2008, 07:21 AM
Steve Jobs: "Intel processors provide more performance per watt than PowerPC."

My G4 (Digital Audio) tower was debuted at MacWorld 2001. I ordered it from the Apple Store the day after it debuted. I'm running 10.4.11 and the computer still works fine on its 8th birthday. (I am glad I skipped the liquid cooled G5 towers. My understanding is there has been a good bit of trouble with some of those).


Not many G5s were water cooled from what I remember, only the later ones. Just for the record my original Dual 2 GHz G5 is still running round the clock with the latest Leopard. Not a single hardware issue in the 7 years (I think that's right ...) I have had it.

Roy
Jan 2, 2008, 08:09 AM
Not many G5s were water cooled from what I remember, only the later ones. Just for the record my original Dual 2 GHz G5 is still running round the clock with the latest Leopard. Not a single hardware issue in the 7 years (I think that's right ...) I have had it.


Well, not all of us have good memories and/or good in math :), but when you said 7 years, the 7 years rang a bell. My G4 is 7 years old this month and the G5 model introduction was a few years down the road. Your G5 dual 2.0 started shipping in Sept. of 2003.

I normally don't go this long between computer purchases, but I was ready to buy a G5 in the Summer of 2005, but then Jobs announced the shift to Intel. When the Mac Pro came out in August of 2006, I decided to wait until Rev. B (?) of the Mac Pro and here I sit. Do I NEED an Apple tower's power? No, but I like to be able to add my own memory and hard drives and to "look under the hood" whenever I like without having to take the case apart with tools.

hagjohn
Jan 2, 2008, 08:24 AM
I hope your joking. How many security updates were their last year for OS X? ... you do know that by default the OS X firewall isn't even on.

Anything can be hacked. Don't go for this "We are safer" because you will end up eating those words sooner or later.

I hope that was a joke :) But in case it wasn't...

Virus writers are not ignoring OS X at all. Going down in history as the creator of the first "real" virus for OS X is more than enough to get people trying. It hasn't happened because OS X is relatively secure and has sensible default services running.

hagjohn
Jan 2, 2008, 08:27 AM
True but I've also seen a lot of MacBooks that have the logo covered... I doubt they are paid.

You do understand that Apple pays for those shots, right? That's not a reflection of popularity, it's simply advertising.

Padraig
Jan 2, 2008, 08:34 AM
For the record, Apple DOESN'T build its own hardware it designs it and farms it off to Foxconn and other Asian manufacturers who then manufacture it so to go from 2.6 million units per quarter currently to say 5million units per quarter would just require planning and ramping up the manufacturing process followed by the same again to go from 5 million Macs per quarter to 7.5million Macs per quarter this time next year.

Yes it DOES. Although, alot of it is farmed out.

greengozer
Jan 2, 2008, 08:38 AM
Sometimes I see Apple computers in adverts and such, but the Apple logos and writing have all been airbrushed off, as if its some brandless computer.

Is this because the advertisers don't want to work with Apple, or is it Apple who wants to remain anonymous?

In these commercials or TV programs, Apple has no involvement, the production company is just using the machine it sees as most aesthetically pleasing, generally anywhere the logo is covered it is more about the design. But I'm guessing it does have a good effect on Apple as there are not many similar machines, designed so.

sumadartson
Jan 2, 2008, 08:47 AM
Hrmz... Honestly, the data doesn't say that much. First of all, how is marketshare measured? Of consumers? Coorps? Usa? World?

Second, what I really wonder is what percentage of hardware was replaced during the period of the 1% market increase. If, say, 2% was replaced, then the 50% of all hardware sold were macs. If, assuming a two month period for the 1% increase and an average lifetime of a pc of 3 years, then ca. 6% of the computers was replaced. The 1% percent increase then means that roughly one in six of all computers sold were macs. Which is massive.

Anyway, without data on the "replacement rate" over that period, the numbers don't say that much.

cameronjpu
Jan 2, 2008, 08:58 AM
Hrmz... Honestly, the data doesn't say that much. First of all, how is marketshare measured? Of consumers? Coorps? Usa? World?

Anyway, without data on the "replacement rate" over that period, the numbers don't say that much.

Two people have asked this now, and I don't understand how you can read the article and not know the answer.

It is web site visitors to a broad sample of web sites. Period.

sumadartson
Jan 2, 2008, 09:28 AM
Two people have asked this now, and I don't understand how you can read the article and not know the answer.

It is web site visitors to a broad sample of web sites. Period.

Does the site have any data on the replacement rate of hardware/computers over that period? IE, what percentage of computers got replaced by a new machine in that period. I couldn't find it that easily, but that could be me.

GeekLawyer
Jan 2, 2008, 09:29 AM
Can you give me an example because I'm drawing a blank. Other than access to Westlaw, I can't think of anything else you need. And technically speaking, you don't even really need a computer at all if you have access to a law library.

Well, okay. I use Macs for my practice, but I do that by working around some limitations and using Bootcamp/Parallels as needed. But most of the law practice management software used today -- things like ProLaw or Amicus Attorney -- are Window-only. Even worse, they interwork only with MS Office products and protocols. Also, they interwork with WordPerfect as that's actually the platform used still by many attorneys and law offices. Hot Docs and ProDoc live on Windows PCs, to say nothing of the billing software that gets lawyers paid.

As things become web-based (Westlaw, Lexis), it gets easier to do this work in OS X. But the problem is that as some of the more popular case management software heads to the web, it's done under the .NET framework and is not open/standards compliant.

And even if you hung out all day at the law library, you couldn't practice law today without some kind of computer in your office. Courts require certain font types, sizes, and other formatting that the good ol' IBM Selectric just isn't capable of rendering.

All of that said, I'm glad to see Apple gaining market share. We shouldn't look down our noses at people who use Apple hardware and software, but sometimes have to do so with a session of Windows running in a virtual machine. ;)

Nicken
Jan 2, 2008, 09:36 AM
Quote from the original article:
However, the really good news for Apple came at the end of the month. For the last two days of December, Apple had the following numbers:

December 30-31 Share:
Mac (all lines) 8.01%
iPhone .17%

clevin
Jan 2, 2008, 09:37 AM
two points

1. Vista now has 10%
2. I found the data intriguing, it actually shows a slight increase in PPC mac's market share. which makes their data set very suspicious.

Loge
Jan 2, 2008, 09:38 AM
Where are the error bars on this chart?

Clearly they made it using Numbers ;)

tcoleman
Jan 2, 2008, 09:50 AM
What this really means is that Apple hardware sales continue to increase faster than the rate of other "PC" sellers.

No, it doesn't. That's what an increase in traditional market share would mean. This is a statistic about installed base, which is not the same thing at all.

OldBobsledGuy
Jan 2, 2008, 10:28 AM
I was the first in my family to by a Mac this past June (MacBookPro) and since then have touted how wonderful Macs are to my family. My little brother, who is a practicing doctor made the conversion this Holiday break and is enjoying his iMac. My sister-in-law, also a doctor is getting one after MacWorld as well. Glad to see more and more of my friends/family finally adopting! Finally used iChat for the first time this weekend with them and LOVED it!

cameronjpu
Jan 2, 2008, 10:30 AM
Does the site have any data on the replacement rate of hardware/computers over that period? IE, what percentage of computers got replaced by a new machine in that period. I couldn't find it that easily, but that could be me.

No, why would it have that data? It just monitors what web browser requests pages from its web sites.

Kevin83165
Jan 2, 2008, 10:50 AM
I converted 2 years ago and my immediate family loves Macs, but I have no luck converting others. Everyone is stuck on Windows and have no plans to try anything else. (Or they complain they can't afford a Mac)

Westside guy
Jan 2, 2008, 10:58 AM
Secondly, Windows is fairly secure OS by itself today, one of the main infection mechanisms today are viruses which are DELIBERATELY executed by idiots using computers. People become very stupid when you promise them a x-mas e-card or naked pics. Trust me, they will input their password and give the virus full root access to OSX.

As implemented by Microsoft (as of XP SP2), I would agree with you - HOWEVER....

One of the things that tends to make Windows still rather insecure is also the same reason lots of businesses stick with Windows - ActiveX. Microsoft knows it's a flawed technology, and by default it's off now. BUT (and it's a really big BUT) Microsoft did a very good job selling people on ActiveX, and a lot of large business intranets are still built around ActiveX technology. People should just enable ActiveX in specific zones; but my experience has been they just enable it, period.

You might argue that this is the end users' fault, but I'd argue in the end it's still due to really poor decision making on Microsoft's part. They should just walk away from ActiveX completely, but they know doing so would open the door to defection from IE (and possibly Windows). It's not unlike the position cigarette manufacturers are in now. :D

ChrisA
Jan 2, 2008, 11:17 AM
I hope that was a joke :) But in case it wasn't...

Virus writers are not ignoring OS X at all. Going down in history as the creator of the first "real" virus for OS X is more than enough to get people trying. It hasn't happened because OS X is relatively secure and has sensible default services running.

The way I say this is...

Do termites eat wooden houses and avoid concrete freeway overpasses because there are more houses and they are easier to find or is there some other reason? I think it is prety clear that it depends on the method of consturction. We have the same thing here with UNIX vs. Windows, they are constructed differently even if the screens the user sees no days look all alike.

atsang
Jan 2, 2008, 11:22 AM
People become very stupid when you promise them a x-mas e-card or naked pics. Trust me, they will input their password and give the virus full root access to OSX.

haha, yeah i agree. If i'm coding a virus, its going to have tons promises for naked pics. just enter you root password here. it don't matter what OS you're in, naked pics is friggin one ring to rule them all.

137489
Jan 2, 2008, 11:46 AM
two points

1. Vista now has 10%
2. I found the data intriguing, it actually shows a slight increase in PPC mac's market share. which makes their data set very suspicious.

I spoke with an Apple Guy. He said PowerPC is still very popular. The reason being is you can pick them up cheaper from say e-bay (and still experience Tiger/Leopard). This is a very good way for someone who does not want to spend a lot of cash while trying out apple to see if it right for them. I myself was watching a few G3/G4 ibooks that had been upgraded to larger hard-drives and memory - problem for me was the price jumped almost as high as a new macbook, so I backed off. Once a price starts jumping close to something brand new is when I say nope, rather buy it retail with the warrenty. I was quite suprised to see so many bids on pismo's, clambooks, and emacs (saw a couple of the old IIe and IIc floating around for a while too). So my guess is the number of apple users is probably higher, considering that someone upgraded and sold their old machine on e-bay to a newbie. Not to mention the people hacking and running pearpc (i am not one, if I want apple - I will run the real thing and get support).

As for Vista, well it is over 6 months since the release and even people just upgrading now are still saying DON'T DO IT. I know some people who just bought new DELL's with Vista Home Premium - they are having a heck of a time and are trying to see if there are XP drivers for their new machines (they want to upgrade back to XP). In fact I went into Walmart recently, and did not see any Vista boxes on the shelves, but still saw they wre selling XP Home edition.

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 2, 2008, 11:49 AM
Two people have asked this now, and I don't understand how you can read the article and not know the answer.

It is web site visitors to a broad sample of web sites. Period.


What if a few people are running OS 10.4 and 10.5 on a generic PC and using FireFox and/or Safari, to access the web, does that get tabulated in with :apple: hardware accessing the net?

GeekLawyer
Jan 2, 2008, 11:55 AM
What if a few people are running OS 10.4 and 10.5 on a generic PC and using FireFox and/or Safari, to access the web, does that get tabulated in with :apple: hardware accessing the net?

Why wouldn't they? As far as the metrics know, it's OS X hitting the servers. The breakdown isn't by manufacturer, it's by operating system. With Apple, manufacturer is usually the same as OS, but not always...

benpatient
Jan 2, 2008, 11:58 AM
In these commercials or TV programs, Apple has no involvement, the production company is just using the machine it sees as most aesthetically pleasing, generally anywhere the logo is covered it is more about the design. But I'm guessing it does have a good effect on Apple as there are not many similar machines, designed so.

There is an entire industry built around product placement fees. If you are watching a show/commercial/movie and an Apple or Dell or whatever product ISN'T blurred out to hide the logo, then the studio doing the production, or their sponsorship partners, or someone, CHARGED for that placement. When all of these reality TV shows blur out people's shirts and hats and stuff, it isn't because they are profane or graphic or anything like that...it is because the company represented didn't pay to play.

Watch last season of 24...Every time you see a computer monitor, you can see the logo for either Dell or Apple. So we're expected to believe that these people are using custom-built super-duper anti-terrorism software from the future that runs natively on OS X and Windows? How awesome is that? Bah. They go to apple with their "we will feature your logo for 2 seconds in 5 scenes this week for $XX,XXX. If Apple says no, and they've already shot them, the logo will get covered up or blurred in post. In a drama-type program, they will do more than just blur it out like they do with reality TV because the environments are more controlled and the editing constraints are smaller.

There have even been documented cases of subliminal product placement in dramas in the last couple of years using the same technology that puts the moving first down lines and advertiser logos on the field at on Monday Night Football.

If you see a logo for a company on something other than an ad for that company, it was purchased or a trade deal was made. No more free rides these days.

benpatient
Jan 2, 2008, 12:06 PM
I spoke with an Apple Guy. He said PowerPC is still very popular. The reason being is you can pick them up cheaper from say e-bay (and still experience Tiger/Leopard).

That still doesn't account for an increase—in 2007—of PPC Macs in their statistics. It more than implies that the methods of the survey are not accurate enough to declare marketshare to tenths of a percentage point.

If your results defy logic, either your results or your logic are incorrect.

The logic in this case would be that no new PPC macs sold in 2007 would mean a decrease in PPC marketshare year over year, as even ebay'ed PPC macs would already have been included in earlier results...

If the logic is good, the results are not.

PNW
Jan 2, 2008, 01:03 PM
That still doesn't account for an increase—in 2007—of PPC Macs in their statistics. It more than implies that the methods of the survey are not accurate enough to declare marketshare to tenths of a percentage point.

If your results defy logic, either your results or your logic are incorrect.

The logic in this case would be that no new PPC macs sold in 2007 would mean a decrease in PPC marketshare year over year, as even ebay'ed PPC macs would already have been included in earlier results...

If the logic is good, the results are not.

That depends on where those PPCs were in service. I'd venture to guess PPC based Macs moving from a corporate to home environment are going to register more frequently on the sites they're monitoring.

Still, I agree with you that the margin of error is likely greater than 0.1% (otherwise they'd have published it)

Given all the comments about Apple only selling >$1000 computers, it's worth noting that the Mini sells for less than $1000. In fact you can find 'new' (as in unsold) 1.63 GHz core duo minis for less than $500. The mini is perfectly adequate for email, surfing the web, editing documents (i.e. what the vast majority of home users do with their computers).

clevin
Jan 2, 2008, 01:51 PM
I spoke with an Apple Guy. He said PowerPC is still very popular.
well, the problem is that PPC mac is out of production already. So are you saying people are re-cycling old macs? that would imply that this collected data set does not corresponding to sales accurately then.

To any extend, I find its amazing they are publishing data with 2 digits behind decimal point. I guess their uncertain is probably ±1~2%, so there is really no reason to put that many significant number there. Nominal? yes, meaningful? probably not.

I also wonder why there is only one service doing these numbers. I have been tracking firefox's market share since 2 years ago. Its always the number from net appllications, or onestat.com, which update every, .... 6 months? lol

gkarris
Jan 2, 2008, 02:48 PM
The future of computing is a big *** table... :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY

inkswamp
Jan 2, 2008, 03:11 PM
two points

1. Vista now has 10%
2. I found the data intriguing, it actually shows a slight increase in PPC mac's market share. which makes their data set very suspicious.

Judging by the reports out there, that 10% Vista has is due to pre-installed copies on new PCs, many of which are no doubt being uninstalled and replaced with XP. There's no rush out there to buy Vista. I know many PC users and none of them are using it yet. Most have expressed caution against it. Besides, 10% market share for an update to an OS that has 90%+ of the market doesn't seem like anything to brag about, especially a year after release.

TheRuggedLion
Jan 2, 2008, 03:29 PM
http://dallasmorningviews.beloblog.com/archives/debbie_downer.jpg

Man, I wanna party with you so bad. :rolleyes:

Funniest post of the year, so far. Lmao thanks for the laugh :D

Roderick Usher
Jan 2, 2008, 06:10 PM
First, the consumer purchasing season.
Yep, that's definitely a factor - probably a huge one. Towards the end of the month, people weren't at work, they were at home, where you're more likely to find Macs. January and February numbers will tell a more complete story.

MikeTheC
Jan 2, 2008, 06:30 PM
While many people, especially MS fanboi are so quick to point out that you can write a virus for anything, let's not forget to remember part of the reason (probably a major part) Windows is so plagued by viruses and other nare-do-well malware is because of how it's designed.

Mac OS X (being largely BSD-based) and Linux in general, are both designed in a considerably less slipshod way. Consequently, it is nowhere near as easy to write a virus for them. This means that the percentage of Win32/Win64 virus writers who are not highly skilled coders (probably a good portion of the crowd, from what I gather) simply won't be able, easily, to produce viruses for anything other than Windows. That means both statistically- as well as numerically fewer viruses for Mac OS X in the future, regardless of it's marketshare.

This is something we should be cheering about.

Now if Apple could just get off their ass and put a two-button touchpad on the MacBooks, and not auto-disable the right mouse button on their MightyMouse offerings, we might just have something.

jpine
Jan 2, 2008, 06:55 PM
I have to agree with other posters that Apple will not reach 50% market share.
Those net numbers include enterprise.

Also, Apple will never get a large market share with the current pricing structure. Apple will hit a ceiling at some point, and I predict it will be about 15% or so.

As long as consumers can get sub-$500 desktops from Wal-Mart or whereever and build HP 17" laptops that have as much as a MacBook Pro for $1500 less, Apple's market share will stagnate at some point. It's a luxury computer.

Besides, I don't want it to get too big of a market share; it will take away some of the "magic".

My old college room mate has a daughter heading off to college this coming Fall term and she will need a notebook. I regret I have not been able to steer him away from the cheap PC's. I can't quite get the point across that there is a difference between the cost of the initial purchase and the cost of ownership. You can't beat the Wal-Mart price, but then you have to pay to own it.

137489
Jan 2, 2008, 06:57 PM
Here is a clip from the article: (taken from http://marketshare.hitslink.com/

About Our Market Share Statistics

This data provides valuable insight into significant trends for internet usage. These statistics include monthly information on key statistics such as browser trends (e.g. Internet Explorer vs. Firefox market share), search engine referral data (e.g. Yahoo vs. MSN vs. Google traffic market share) and operating system share (Windows vs. Mac vs. Linux market share or even the iPhone market share vs. Windows Mobile).

We use a unique methodology for collecting this data. We collect data from the browsers of site visitors to our exclusive on-demand network of live stats customers. The data is compiled from approximately 160 million visitors per month. The information published is an aggregate of the data from this network of hosted website statistics. The site unique visitor and referral information is summarized on a monthly basis.

In addition, we classify 430+ referral sources identified as search engines.

So, based on this I say new Mac Users who are buying PPC from ebay does play into it. so if someone sells their old PPC to a new user and then buys a new mac - you now got 2 people hitting the web. Ok, maybe flawed logic - but considering it monitors browsers that hit sites. Now there is another issue:

1. Safari for Windows.
2. Are these websites targeted to apple audiences only (ie offer apple products / downloads).
3. If these sites are being tracked knowingly, then how do they stop people purposely hitting them to drive up statics.

No matter how you look at it, everything statistic that comes out lately points to apple increasing and the monopolizer decreasing.

My point to try to clarify the increase of powerpc users, was from the fact of the number of ibook/powerbooks/emacs/older imacs for sale/sold on ebay. Newbies to the mac world are buying them up for school or home use when they cannot afford to buy a mac brand new. I still look to see what is out on ebay to see if I can pick up my first mac cheaply.

Dmac77
Jan 2, 2008, 07:04 PM
Windows marketshare consist of everything evolving around your life.(Business, hospitals-schools etc)
I would not say that macs are not used in schools. My whole district is currently switching to macs. Mini's and macbooks seem to work well in schools.

pamon
Jan 2, 2008, 07:44 PM
stating a point that obvious but again said... apple can thank the failure of vista to their bottom line results. An apple system running 10.4 or 10.5 beats vista hands down IMHO and have a MB where I have XP running. I had an old vista machine but formatted that boy down. Have my MB, ordered a new MBP, and happy 100%

inkswamp
Jan 3, 2008, 03:41 AM
Funniest post of the year, so far. Lmao thanks for the laugh :D

I'm glad someone enjoyed that. :D

I've posted the Debbie Downer pic before and probably will do it again. I always think of MacRumors as a source of fun and frivolous news tidbits and rumors, but it always seems that, no matter how cool a given rumor is, there's someone coming along to spoil the fun by being way too serious.

"Enjoy your computers while children are starving in third world countries." Wah-waaaaah... :rolleyes:

takao
Jan 3, 2008, 06:26 AM
until i can buy apple software in normal retailers around the corner and don't have to go to special apple retailers who is across the town besides a sex toy shop (i'm not making this up... actual around the corner there is even a second one :rolleyes:) the market share is still too small

Roy
Jan 3, 2008, 07:45 AM
until i can buy apple software in normal retailers around the corner and don't have to go to special apple retailers who is across the town besides a sex toy shop (i'm not making this up... actual around the corner there is even a second one :rolleyes:) the market share is still too small

My of my Windows friends won't even think of switching to a Mac because of the incompatibility of the Mac with free Windows copies of programs from their Windows friends. In effect, they would have to buy their own programs rather than borrow/share programs from/with their friends. Not enough Mac friends around to start a sharing program.

Roderick Usher
Jan 3, 2008, 01:24 PM
IMO, the real "critical mass" of market share is the point at which the momentum of most major third-party developers results in Mac releases with little to no disparity, schedule-wise or feature-wise, with their Windows counterparts. The companies to watch for this would be ones like Intuit (Quicken), Autodesk (Maya), NewTek (LightWave), etc. (Right now the only ones within shouting distance of equivalence are Adobe and Blizzard.) It will take a lot more than just barely hitting double-digits for this to be the case.

jackc
Jan 3, 2008, 01:30 PM
until i can buy apple software in normal retailers around the corner and don't have to go to special apple retailers who is across the town besides a sex toy shop (i'm not making this up... actual around the corner there is even a second one :rolleyes:) the market share is still too small

You leave your house to buy software?

Pwarnich
Jan 3, 2008, 04:41 PM
Does anyone here know, if Macs running MS Windows, is taken in consideration in the "Net Applications report"?

If not, the Mac Hardware numbers (not OS's) could be even higher. Hmm even better :rolleyes:

Ohh my goodness. Did a litttle investigating myself and look what they posted at the Net applications web site:
"Another interesting aspect of this data is that these numbers do not include visitors using Windows on Mac hardware via Boot Camp or other program. Therefore, these numbers actually understate the market share for the Mac. We have no way of telling by how much, however."

And they have posted numbers for the last days of December where Mac's are up to 8.01% and iPhone to 0.18%

DiamondMac
Jan 4, 2008, 09:21 PM
When Apple reaches 10% I think momemtum will carry them to 50%.

That is a huge, huge, huge, huge, huge jump to go from 10% to 50%

:confused:

dergoog
Jan 5, 2008, 07:27 PM
We recently did an event for designers and had a ton of buttons made up as giveaways. "PCs are the devil"

It's so fun to see them now on people's bags, cubes and I've even seen one mounted to a table tent on the desk of a copyright lawyers office. They switched over completely to mac in his firm.

I gave some to my vet's office who also just converted their entire office over to macs.

They all went so fast, but we found an extra box. I put them up on ebay to help recoup some of the cost and spread them outside of our city. We called it - "Wear what everyone is thinking"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260200409867&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=016

24" intel imac - aluminum
2.4 GHZ - 2 GB RAM- 320 GB int. 320 GB FW - 500 GB USB 2.0
Elgato TV HYBRID + Elgato Turbo 64
(Lovin' it)

sjhart
Jan 22, 2008, 10:03 PM
I notice Windows fanboys browse this site too, as why the hell would someone rate this news negative. Shoo, fanboys!

Ok: I'll bite. The reported study relates to web browsing, not hardware sales. Apple today reported sales of 2.3 million Mac's in the last quarter of 2007. That gave them less than a 3% market share.

vendor millions share
HP 14.695 19.0%
Dell 11.314 14.6%
Acer 7.394 9.6%
Lenovo 5.826 7.5%
Toshiba 3.029 3.9%
Others 35.122 45.4%
Total 77.378 100.0%

Sources:
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/01/17/worldwide-pc-shipments-up-155-in-4q07
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/technology/23apple.html?em&ex=1201150800&en=dc982cb0e2ef3100&ei=5087%0A

Chrispy88
Jan 22, 2008, 10:12 PM
Ok: I'll bite. The reported study relates to web browsing, not hardware sales. Apple today reported sales of 2.3 million Mac's in the last quarter of 2007. That gave them less than a 3% market share.

vendor millions share
HP 14.695 19.0%
Dell 11.314 14.6%
Acer 7.394 9.6%
Lenovo 5.826 7.5%
Toshiba 3.029 3.9%
Others 35.122 45.4%
Total 77.378 100.0%

Sources:
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/01/17/worldwide-pc-shipments-up-155-in-4q07
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/technology/23apple.html?em&ex=1201150800&en=dc982cb0e2ef3100&ei=5087%0A

Those are worldwide numbers, right? I think that this article - and the 7% - refers to U.S. numbers only :) Everyone knows that the worldwide percentage is drastically lower than the U.S. marketshare!

Chrispy88
Jan 22, 2008, 10:16 PM
Here, this article says that Apple reached 5.7% U.S. market share in 4Q 2007 (which is July-September):

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/17/technology/pc.php

I'm guessing that they might've broken the 6% barrier in 1Q 2008!

SeaFox
Jan 22, 2008, 10:44 PM
Here, this article says that Apple reached 5.7% U.S. market share in 4Q 2007 (which is July-September):

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/17/technology/pc.php

I'm guessing that they might've broken the 6% barrier in 1Q 2008!

A "guess" that certainly would be, since there is not enough information to predict future market share at all. This is the only sentence about Apple in the entire article:

Sales of computers from Apple surged 30.9 percent in the fourth quarter, giving the company 5.7 percent of the U.S. market.

Sales surged 31%, resulting in 5.7% market share. So how much was the market share before the surge? If you don't know that, you have no point of reference and no way of telling how much market share was increased by the new sales. Maybe those sales only raised overall usage .5%.

michaelverdin
Feb 4, 2008, 04:18 AM
I have conflicted emotions on this; I have been a mac fanatic since the early 90's and was happy to be part of the 'club' But now the 'others are starding to buy them, well I just don't know any more.....