PDA

View Full Version : New Apple Site Design?


arn
Apr 22, 2002, 10:51 AM
Spymac.com (http://www.spymac.com) reports that according to sources, Apple has been looking into alternative website designs for their corporate website.

Better integration with iTools and a non-Aqua look seem to be possibilities...

Hemingray
Apr 22, 2002, 11:10 AM
Why would Apple move away from their Aqua look if that's what they're touting as the next best thing? Doesn't make much sense to me unless they've conceded that Aqua ISN'T quite all it's cracked up to be... [dons flame-retardant suit, whistles and slinks away]

eyelikeart
Apr 22, 2002, 11:21 AM
I think Apple could benefit from a new look on their website...it works well presently...but it's been like that for a few years now...time for something new...

One thing that keeps companies on top is reinventing themselves...whether it be by a new method of operating...new corporate identity...new website...it's a known fact...

I say change it up a bit...it certainly wouldn't hurt as long as the information is still present...

mischief
Apr 22, 2002, 11:30 AM
Bring it on.

I am firmly of the belief that Aqua was a quick solution to a need for an Apple style GUI for Darwin. I think X.2 will have a new GUI layer to replace Aqua. I believe the speed increases rumoured for Jaguar are due to this shift.

Summing up:

Darwin good.
Aqua CRAP. (pretty but crap)

iGav
Apr 22, 2002, 11:31 AM
It's just a change........ I don't see the problem personally... Apple are about evolution and innovation.....

well maybe we will get a more refined Aqua look... who knows......

I'm not going to lose sleep over it, as I'm sure it'll look and work dynamically!!

iGav
Apr 22, 2002, 11:33 AM
Spot on.... I like the way you're thinking!!! ;) :D

As long as they don't replace Aqua with SNOW........ :eek:

Eww!! :p

TechLarry
Apr 22, 2002, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by iGAV
Spot on.... I like the way you're thinking!!! ;) :D

As long as they don't replace Aqua with SNOW........ :eek:

Eww!! :p

Aqua is fine. I do think we could do without all the pulsating, and that's probably where a lot of the energy is being wasted.

TL

Geert
Apr 22, 2002, 11:44 AM
A new look once in a while has not hurt anybody yet.
But al long as they do not create a messy kinda look like eg MSN homepage or this one here (http://www.microsoft.com//)

Nice, tidy, and absolutly gorgeous those are the keywords!!

Matthé
Apr 22, 2002, 11:47 AM
it is, I know most of you don't agree but all the graphic designers I've talked to feel the same way. It's full of unnecessary transparancies/shadows/gradients/...
Form follows function remember? (that's what they did with the iMac)
at least give us less is more types an alternative to the plastic look that is aqua

iGav
Apr 22, 2002, 11:53 AM
Drop shadows.... YUK.!! I hate drop shadows........ although OSX just scraps the boundaries of good taste with its drop shadows!!

As a minimalist and functionalist kind of guy, I'd like to see Apple do a stripped down PRO version, that really hums along...... you know like how Porsche sells stripped down club sports and GT 2 models to increase overall performance for the truely awe inspiring drive!!!

I don't need fancy looking GUI, I need ultra hardcore performance!!!:p

cleo
Apr 22, 2002, 12:02 PM
It's funny that this came up, because I was just wondering about the same thing yesterday. Check out the Apple page for Photoshop (http://www.apple.com/macosx/applications/photoshop/). Those buttons are definitely not Aqua.

The question is, is Spymac on to something? Or did they just notice these different buttons and run with it?

bellboy
Apr 22, 2002, 12:09 PM
Apple did the right thing with Aqua. They needed something that was over-the-top, something that was bright and shinny, something that made you want to "lick your screen". They need to get everyone excited about OS X, and that's what it did. I don't think that Apple has ever said that "aqua is the next best thing", I think they've been saying "quartz is the next best thing, look what we can do with it". Aqua was just a style - one that was styled after their old hardware form-factor, and I think it's safe to say that the style is now a bit outdated and is making a move towards the new "TiBook" form-factor. Take a look at the new bottom buttons in iTunes, or the buttons in the different hardware pages at apple.com. I think that's what we can look forward to - a design that is more functional, not as over-the-top, and a lot quicker!

esome
Apr 22, 2002, 02:46 PM
the Apple Knowledge Base. Frankly, Apple's whole feedback and support setup is too complicated and not at all user friendly. Site redesign here would be very welcome. So here's to hoping they're not just making aesthetic changes. There has been some good discussion of this at MacInTouch...

http://www.macintouch.com/applekbsupport.html

iMax
Apr 22, 2002, 02:53 PM
Aqua seems like it went very well in terms of look with the bulging plastic cases of the old iMac and the current G4... but now, as apple moves towards a computer design asthetic of simple metal and white, wouldn't it make sense for the look of the OS to do the same thing, to leave the pretty multicoloredness behind in favor of something more sleek and 21st century?

I'm not saying I embrace this change, but it could be interesting.

Choppaface
Apr 22, 2002, 03:07 PM
damn I like aqua....oh well i guess it has sort of gone out of style by now

dschep
Apr 22, 2002, 03:51 PM
about the web page, am i the only one that realizes that the icard tab is another link to itools

GPTurismo
Apr 22, 2002, 04:14 PM
The problem isn't Aqua, it's A) the fact that many graphics cards boost Quartz. ATI was suppose to, BUT they failed to deliver as usual. nVidia is getting there, but never planned on to until they and apple joined hands. B) it's carbon. The finder, iTunes, everything would be faster if they put them into and optimized them for Cocoa.

Also, they aren't going to change aqua. Why does their site have to resemble their OS GUI? Microsoft's hasn't, Red Hat hasn't, SGI's hasn't, no ones has. So to say they are changing their os interface to match their web interface is ludicrous.

bellboy
Apr 22, 2002, 04:42 PM
I'm not suggesting that apple is going change their interface because they're changing their website... yes, that would be "ludicrous".

What I am suggesting, however, is that their website (which was originally based on their new interface; which was based on their new hardware designs), will be changed to reflect the design of the hardware they are currently selling - sleek, slim, white (or "metallic" greys) and clean. There have been lot's of complaints about Aqua being too bright and colourful, and as an interface I have to agree. I love the cleanliness and simplify of OS9, but I also love the subtitles of what quartz can do. My guess is that, eventually, we'll see something that's a hybrid of Platinum and Aqua.

If I remember correctly, their website had the Aqua style before OSX was shown to the public (well, DP3 or whatever had the new interface). If Apple is to make a major design change to their website (and my guess is that it will, and it will look like their TiBook or something similar), I wouldn't be surprised to see the interface in OSX change as well.

Aqua as we know it was used to market Apple's new interface. Now that everyone knows what OSX is, I think Apple will take a slightly more serious and professional approach to their interface design... seeing as we've already bought (literally) into their vision of the "future".

cleo
Apr 22, 2002, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by bellboy


Aqua as we know it was used to market Apple's new interface. Now that everyone knows what OSX is, I think Apple will take a slightly more serious and professional approach to their interface design... seeing as we've already bought (literally) into their vision of the "future".

But the thing is, not everyone does know what OS X is. Isn't it important to maintain some sort of continuity over at least a couple of years, if anything just to not wildly disorient new Mac users?

(That having been said, I personally would like more customization options within the OS itself... I find myself liking the Graphite look more every day.)

bellboy
Apr 22, 2002, 05:00 PM
Although Apple hasn't been as agressive as, say Microsoft, with advertising their new OS, I do think that people know what the new OS looks like - everyone who has purchased a Mac since, what was it MWSF, knows what OSX looks like as it is the default OS now.

I agree that they should try to maintain some consistancy, and I think that they will to some degree.... but the second they made the decision to design the interface after the hardware, I think they painted themselves into a corner - that being they have to update the interface as much as they do the hardware (well design-wise that is).

Also, I'm not suggesting that this will happen soon... My guess is that they will make this change on a major release (10.5 or 11.0, or something like that) and that the current "Aqua" theme will be just another selection on a pulldown in the system pref's.

mac15
Apr 22, 2002, 05:25 PM
What are you all saying aqua looks awesome
It maybe be a resource hog but it looks good

bellboy
Apr 22, 2002, 05:36 PM
What I'm trying to say is that Aqua looked cool when it first came out.... but is now looking slightly dated and will be (should be/could be) updated to reflect Apple's current hardware designs. As for it being a resource hog; I think the performance problems have more to do with the software not being optimized to run on the current hardware, and vise-versa. I thik that if Apple is to make these changes, there will be little, to no performace improvements because of it. Apple has to get some good drivers made to support their brilliant Quartz engine... and don't forget about the rumors of hardware dedicated to running Quartz.

The future looks good guys, we just have to be patient.

Biggles
Apr 22, 2002, 05:47 PM
Aqua is awesome! But yes, it can be a little too sugar-coated at times. What I do is just set the appearance to Graphite and everything is nice and kosher :).

blackpeter
Apr 22, 2002, 06:12 PM
Aqua looks great. Aqua runs better than any OS - it's just a little slower. Although I'm not sure if it's even that when you factor time spent restarting and freezing - a relative reality with Windows.

OS X's speed is just fine for any consumer (admittedly on a G4) and the GUI has always gotten compliments from my PC counterparts. Joe Schmoe consumer likes pretty things. Just look at XP.

The difference is that Aqua's cute look doesn't get in the way of it's might: the stability of Unix. Speed and performance is really up to the user. You don't like a lot of the GUI's more processor intensive tasks? Get thee to the Termainal! Make some changes. I did... and I'm an idiot*

I'm as excited as anyone is for 10.2. Sure, after a point, one has to rely on Apple to help make X zippier. Regardless, in every way, OS X is an unquestionable improvement over OS 9.

bellboy
Apr 22, 2002, 06:19 PM
amen to that!

Mr. Anderson
Apr 22, 2002, 06:45 PM
I don't think Aqua will disappear totally, especially for a small upgrade. Then if they have an upgraded version, there might be an option for using Aqua, different skins, who knows.

The Apple website's Photoshop page looks like Aqua, why do you think it isn't?

bellboy
Apr 22, 2002, 07:50 PM
I think he was talking about the buttons in the middle of page... the "buy now" I assume.

Rower_CPU
Apr 22, 2002, 07:57 PM
This debate can be summed up as follows:

Aqua == pretty
Aqua != snappy

The hardware overhead is too much at this point. I mean, if you need a DP1G and a gig of RAM in order to not feel slowed down then something's wrong.

I LOVE the way Aqua looks. I HATE the way it runs on my G3.

King Cobra
Apr 22, 2002, 07:58 PM
If Apple ever does come up with some way of redesigning their website, I would like to see just three minor changes.
(1) When I click on a tab, it should turn aqua, just as when you hit "Cancel" for an option in OS X.
(2) Some buttons or tabs should pulsate, as do a few buttons in OS X.
(3) I would like to see more spotlights on the front page. That way I do not need to search the database for certain news reports: "Students of Maine receive iBooks...", "This just in: Gateway copies Apple... http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=4110 ", "A majority of people here use Macs, so should you!"

You get the point.
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

mikedman
Apr 22, 2002, 08:00 PM
If apple is seriously considering changing their interface it would make sense. They came back from the brink by making the link between fashon and computing. Apple pulled the pc out of comodity status and turned it into a lifestyle object. Now they must deal with their own creation by keeping up with trends in computing and fashon. Luckily apple has been ahead of the curve thus far and they ended up creating more trends than they followed, but it takes a lot of talent to stay that way.


Due to Apples close hardware/software integration I wouldn't be supprised if the eye candy (not the basic UI rules and structure mind you) starts to change almost as often as the case designs.

Xapplimatic
Apr 22, 2002, 08:03 PM
Personally, I like Aqua.. I like it a lot.. I just wish the buttons came in different flavors or in the forms of dalmations or something! :) just kidding.. no really, all Apple needs to do is make a preference panel to reign in control for the control freaks.. Want drop shadows? Check this box. Want pulsations? Check this box.. What color? Use the color wheel.. Just customize it so people can change the look or optionally disable certain cpu-sapping functions, but leave it available for those who have G4s, G5s, or are in a feel good mood when they surf. For those who want faster use on a g3 or to turn an Apple into a boring Linux box, let them! But for those who want a little more panache, keep Aqua around and up the customizability!

And incidently, I don't see a major reason for Apple to change their site. It's pleasant, well layed out.. but oh yess.. I forgot, progress means reinventing the wheel every time we get bored with it.. As if enough of the old pages with broken links weren't bad enough..

Rower_CPU
Apr 22, 2002, 08:06 PM
The System Prefs settings have been called for for quite some time...I just hope Apple is listening.

I think their site looks fine. It matches their products in look and feel.

However, if new hardware/software comes out that follows different design trends, Apple will surely switch.

cleo
Apr 22, 2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by bellboy
I think he was talking about the buttons in the middle of page... the "buy now" I assume.

Yes, I was referring to the buttons on the Photoshop page. They are 2D and, I think, much easier on the eyes than the Aqua capsules.

And, bellboy, hang around here long enough and you will learn that I am very adamantly a she. :D

Rower_CPU
Apr 22, 2002, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by cleo
And, bellboy, hang around here long enough and you will learn that I am very adamantly a she. :D

Don't you just love how the anonymity of the 'Net makes everyone a "he"?
Sometimes it seems like it's two steps forward, one step back...

Mr. Anderson
Apr 22, 2002, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by cleo

Yes, I was referring to the buttons on the Photoshop page. They are 2D and, I think, much easier on the eyes than the Aqua capsules.

Yuck, I don't like them. Especially if the whole site takes over that look. The colors are too saturated and close to primary, I hope they do something a little more stylish.

I checked the site and other applications have the same buttons, but the store doesn't. We'll have to see if they start updating the other sections of the site.

bretm
Apr 22, 2002, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by bellboy
Although Apple hasn't been as agressive as, say Microsoft, with advertising their new OS, I do think that people know what the new OS looks like - everyone who has purchased a Mac since, what was it MWSF, knows what OSX looks like as it is the default OS now.

Hardly anyone knows what OSX looks like. Seriously. I'm a freelance editor. I go to production facilities with tons of macs operating. They look at my laptop with OSX and say "what is that?"

I just sublet an office for my system within another company. The entire company is macs. They are all networked. They do cutting edge websites, cdroms, videos. They come by my little office and see me running FCP, GoLive, Photoshop in OSX and usually ask the same thing... "Is that new?" The more educated as "so is that OSX?" But these guys are networked. The share work and resources. They can't even possibly think about switching to X. I can't completely. Little office programs don't run on X. Scanners for some reason haven't developed hardly a single driver for older scanners.

Not until these sort of companies realize they can make the switch (or are forced to... say with PS 8 or Avid version 12, will the mass of people SEE OSX. I'd say it's the little guy that can afford to upgrade a single system instead of a whole floor or the cutting edge folk you find surfing MacRumors in the off hours. But we ARE NOT the norm guys. OSX has only been worth having since OSX.1 when people started making apps for real. That's been what... half a year?

If I were Mac I wouldn't doubt myself. I'd add on. I wouldn't ditch a concept so quickly. Make more themes. Make everything equal to OS9. Make a OS9 or classic theme. Make the transition even easier for the latecomers. They don't know they're late. They were just busy working instead of surfing. :)

Know what I want more than anything? GoMac for OSX. Or at least LiteSwitch. app+tab fuctionality that works!

Rower_CPU
Apr 22, 2002, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by bretm
Know what I want more than anything? GoMac for OSX. Or at least LiteSwitch. app+tab fuctionality that works!

I'm not familiar with those apps, what do they do?
Do they provide better application switching than X does with Command + Tab?

bellboy
Apr 22, 2002, 09:34 PM
I think we have to stop looking at the G3 as a performance benchmark. I understand that there are still a lot of people who own and use G3 based computers, and I feel you pain, but OSX was definitley not built for you - and I don't think that will ever really change. Apple designed OSX 2-4 years in advance, and the G3 definitely isn't on their roadmap. They'll support you, to some degree, because they have to, but I'm pretty sure that they're going to move away from the G3 processor as quickly as they can (the iMac is obvious proof of this).

Apple likes/has to progress technology a lot quicker than most companies... they kinda' have to to survive. They're a hardware vendor, first and foremost, and moving people over to OSX is a great way to increase sales. Do I agree with it? yes, to some extent.... I mean, they had to draw a line in the sand somewhere. They didn't phase out the ADB ports when the brought USB in, so I guess we're lucky the didn't do the same thing with the G3.


cleo, I do appologize about that. I swear I pressed the 's' key... ;)

Hemingray
Apr 23, 2002, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Don't you just love how the anonymity of the 'Net makes everyone a "he"?
Sometimes it seems like it's two steps forward, one step back...

Remember that thread long ago about the whole "any girls in here?" Basically it's been established that the majority here is guys, so for one to assume that one is talking to another guy is only natural, especially in an anonymous environment.

I don't exactly see the relevance of gender when it comes to discussing in forums anyway... does it really matter whether we're a guy or a girl? After all, I thought the idea was to blur the the line of difference, not enhance it...

Rower_CPU
Apr 23, 2002, 12:39 AM
Blurring the lines of identification on the 'Net also leads sexual predators to seduce girls on the web...

My point was that unless you know the person's sex for sure it's rude to assume they're a "he"...or even that they're a "she"...My first name is Robin, so naturally I get a lot of mail for "Ms. Robin...". It's irritating and rude of people to assume they know the sex of the party they are addressing.

The boards here make it difficult because 1) we can't see each other, 2) people's usernames are cryptic and androgynous (for the most part).

My solution: take a grammar lesson, and learn to use the pronoun "they".

kainjow
Apr 23, 2002, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Xapplimatic
Personally, I like Aqua.. I like it a lot.. I just wish the buttons came in different flavors or in the forms of dalmations or something! :) just kidding.. no really, all Apple needs to do is make a preference panel to reign in control for the control freaks.. Want drop shadows? Check this box. Want pulsations? Check this box.. What color? Use the color wheel.. Just customize it so people can change the look or optionally disable certain cpu-sapping functions, but leave it available for those who have G4s, G5s, or are in a feel good mood when they surf. For those who want faster use on a g3 or to turn an Apple into a boring Linux box, let them! But for those who want a little more panache, keep Aqua around and up the customizability!

I believe that this kind of customization is the wrong thing to do. This is why Windows is soo complicated compared to the Mac and why it has so many problems all the time. The more options you give the user, the more complicated it gets and the more frustrating it is. Apple is know for simplicity and ease with their products so I think the most customization you'll ever get with the appearance of the OS is just a drop down list with each theme.

bellboy
Apr 23, 2002, 09:04 AM
I think customization is a must in an OS....

Each person is different, and enjoys using their computer in different ways. I don't think that having these options hurt the experience at all. I mean, as a "power user" I love the idea of tailoring the OS exactly the way I want it.... as long as these options are presented in a easy-to-use fashion, and there is a "reset to default" button, I don't think anyone will have a problem.

As for windows, I think it's level of complexity has more to do with it's poor craftsmanship than it's level of customization.

cleo
Apr 23, 2002, 09:08 AM
I think you're both right. The key, I think, would be havign a certain number of options available, but only such that if they are selcted in any combination the result is still distinctively Apple-ish and elegant. I think the fear is that if Apple opens up too many customization options, the overall quality of the appearance will go down, which will not be good at all for attracting new users.

Mr. Anderson
Apr 23, 2002, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by cleo
The key, I think, would be havign a certain number of options available, but only such that if they are selcted in any combination the result is still distinctively Apple-ish and elegant.

Thats a great idea, make it more than just 'themes' on the same template. If you could have more than one button/scroll bar design instead of just selecting colors you might even be able to optimize for speed if that is necessary on a slower computer. It might allow Apple to gain more acceptance on upgrading older machines to OSX, something they sorely need. Not to mention on some of the late model iBooks.

If they can incorporate this in OSX.2 it would be a major leap forward for Apple's OS. Zooming windows and eyecandy are nice, but when you get right down to it, functionality/usability is truly the most important aspect of the OS.

McFreggle
Apr 23, 2002, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by dschep
about the web page, am i the only one that realizes that the icard tab is another link to itools

has been like that for ages

also, the buttons of the photoshop-page have showed up before on the site

k.

Rower_CPU
Apr 23, 2002, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by kainjow
I believe that this kind of customization is the wrong thing to do. This is why Windows is soo complicated compared to the Mac and why it has so many problems all the time. The more options you give the user, the more complicated it gets and the more frustrating it is. Apple is know for simplicity and ease with their products so I think the most customization you'll ever get with the appearance of the OS is just a drop down list with each theme.

Wrong. What makes Windows complicated is the registry, device drivers, IRQ settings, etc.

Windows XP did something right by allowing you to turn off the "Fischer-Price" GUI, and go back to the Win2K appearance. Ugly, yes. More functional, HELL yes.

I would be tickled pink to have the ability to individually turn off the GUI "enhancements" in OS X.

eric_n_dfw
Apr 23, 2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet


Yuck, I don't like them. Especially if the whole site takes over that look. The colors are too saturated and close to primary, I hope they do something a little more stylish.

I checked the site and other applications have the same buttons, but the store doesn't. We'll have to see if they start updating the other sections of the site.
It seems that each product has a "Buy Now" button that, somewhat, matches the product. The TiBook is, well, "Ti" looking, the iMac, iBook and iPod are soft-white and the PowerMacs and Monitors are clear-ish.

Now that I've surfed to all of those pages and seen all those buttons, i have the uncontrolable urge to "Buy Now!" ;)

Hemingray
Apr 23, 2002, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Blurring the lines of identification on the 'Net also leads sexual predators to seduce girls on the web...

That door can swing both ways, though. If the sexual predator doesn't know the person's gender in the first place, how will they know whether to stalk them or not? (Unless they're just totally nuts, and I don't even wanna go there... :eek: )

You're right, using "they" is a good solution. And with a name such as "Cleo", I would think one would naturally think twice anyway before calling them a "he"... :D

lookmark
Apr 23, 2002, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by bretm


Hardly anyone knows what OSX looks like. Seriously. I'm a freelance editor. I go to production facilities with tons of macs operating. They look at my laptop with OSX and say "what is that?"

[snip]

I'd say it's the little guy that can afford to upgrade a single system instead of a whole floor or the cutting edge folk you find surfing MacRumors in the off hours. But we ARE NOT the norm guys. OSX has only been worth having since OSX.1 when people started making apps for real. That's been what... half a year?

If I were Mac I wouldn't doubt myself. I'd add on. I wouldn't ditch a concept so quickly. Make more themes. Make everything equal to OS9. Make a OS9 or classic theme. Make the transition even easier for the latecomers. They don't know they're late. They were just busy working instead of surfing. :)

Know what I want more than anything? GoMac for OSX. Or at least LiteSwitch. app+tab fuctionality that works!


Great post. Most of us forget and begin to think that everyone dreams in aqua every night, read Think Secret while eating their Cheerios, and count the days until OS X preview announcements. ;)

Aqua isn't going away any time soon. When Apple feels the message has finally sunk in, we may get some official themes...

Does anyone remember the leak of several themes on a German web site shortly around the release of OS X 10.0? (Or was it more around PB-time?) Snow and Metal are the two I recall. These could've just been fakes but they were very polished (you can often tell the genuine Apple stuff from the small details), and when discovered the web pages disappeared *very* quickly.

I thought the Snow theme was pretty nice.

In the meantime, though, if you've tired of Aqua get a theme manager and go the unoffical route.

BTW bretm - I'm not personally a big GoMac fan (why not just use the Dock, or alternatives like DragThing, LaunchBar, or DropDrawers?) but for proper app+tab functionality check out Keyboard Maestro or App Switcher (the latter, still in beta, is free and very similar to the thank-God-it-exists LiteSwitch).

McFreggle
Apr 24, 2002, 03:46 AM
Since the edition of April, 9, the electronic Mac OS X Newsletter sports a slightly changed layout, that ressembles the left column added to the Apple Store.

k.

mmmdreg
May 1, 2002, 06:55 AM
Looking through the hardware pages, I noticed that the bar for techspecs, graphics etc. is different for every computer...and I'm not sure if it was like this before but the new TiBooks page has the least aqua-like bar there...