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MacRumors
Jan 4, 2008, 02:52 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With CES right around the corner, the Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119940267392266173.html) looks at a growing focus amongst PC manufacturers: design. With increasing competition and the clear appeal of Apple's industrial design, PC manufacturers are increasingly focusing on the physical designs for their upcoming computers. This is a sharp turn-around from the corporate attitude only a few years ago:
David Hill, Lenovo's vice president of corporate identity and design, said his teams once played a secondary role to the technical side of product development. Now designers "have equal weight at the table," he says.

At Dell, in 2001, some were even lobbying for the elimination of the Design Director job as it was seen as "unnecessary". At the time, Dell only employed 6 designers, but this number has been increasing in recent years and is up to 90 as of today.

Designers are now exploring alternative materials and industries as inspiration for design techniques. Much of this is reminiscent of earlier articles describing how Apple's Jonathan Ive spent time in a candy factory to study jelly bean manufacturing when designing the plastic enclosure for the original iMac. An earlier TechnologyReview article recounts Apple's design process over the years.

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/01/04/dellxpsone_300.png
Dell XPS One

The efforts appear to be paying off for some PC manufacturers. Sony reveals that their pink Vaio has sold more than any other color. Meanwhile, Walt Mossberg gave Dell's new XPS One a favorable review and claims it "matches or exceeds the iMac in hardware design".

Design is expected to take center stage at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) which kicks off this Sunday in Las Vegas, NV. Microsoft will be hosting a PC "fashion show" during their keynote to highlight some of the best designs.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/04/dell-and-others-trying-to-catch-up-with-apples-style/)



Eidorian
Jan 4, 2008, 02:53 PM
Dear Dell,

I thought the iMac was expensive. What's up with the XPS One?

~Eidorian

JFreak
Jan 4, 2008, 02:54 PM
...sincerest form...

ArtOfWarfare
Jan 4, 2008, 02:57 PM
Their wireless keyboard has a number pad and arrow keys on it!

(or at least I think it does... kind of hard to see what keys the keyboard has and doesn't have from this angle.)

The computer actually looks pretty good I think. Except the dies... why is there so much non-screen to either side of the screen? How big is that screen anyways (and what is the resolution?)

I can't say it looks better than my 2007 iMac though.

Mac.Jnr
Jan 4, 2008, 02:58 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Design is expected to take center stage at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) which kicks off this Sunday in Las Vegas, NV. Microsoft will be hosting a PC "fashion show" during their keynote to highlight some of the best designs.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/04/dell-and-others-trying-to-catch-up-with-apples-style/)

Lol @ PC "fashion show."

I guess it is god the industry is trying to catch up, hopefully this will bring even better products from Apple.

Kamera RAWr
Jan 4, 2008, 02:58 PM
At least they're trying :D

homeboy
Jan 4, 2008, 02:58 PM
Welcome to earth dell. With exceptional service and a great level of customization they have most targeted businesses and upper middle class consumers. With the pale and very boring designs they have neglected the traditional home user.

Thankfully they have realized why their computers aren't a hot topic amongst the cool kids. They are walking on the right path now, the XPS and MX1530 looks really good. But since many here are apple fan boys you will use this thread to bash Dells instead. All they need now is a design chief to create a uniform design or image for their future computers.

bjett92
Jan 4, 2008, 02:59 PM
I think Dell is going to try to hard to make their products look good, and they won't match the simplicity of Apple's hardware.

bigandy
Jan 4, 2008, 02:59 PM
At Dell, in 2001, some were even lobbying for the elimination of the Design Director job as it was seen as "unnecessary". At the time, Dell only employed 6 designers, but this number has been increasing in recent years and is up to 90 as of today.

.....and 89 of those 90 are drunk, blindfolded toddlers... :rolleyes:

vixapphire
Jan 4, 2008, 03:00 PM
when you're dealing in commodities (PC's), it's pretty basic that styling would be the differentiator.

welcome to 1920, Dell! brave new world 'n all...:rolleyes:

DaBrain
Jan 4, 2008, 03:00 PM
Quote:
David Hill, Lenovo's vice president of corporate identity and design, said his teams once played a secondary role to the technical side of product development. Now designers "have equal weight at the table," he says.

Not in my eyes! With out OSX IM not interested--)));)

plumbingandtech
Jan 4, 2008, 03:00 PM
Still Ugly IMO.

vixapphire
Jan 4, 2008, 03:01 PM
i saw a guy with an XPS at a starbucks in weho. it's pretty interesting; then again, once you go up to it and find out it's not actually a 2x" laptop but a "portable" desktop someone's hauled out for a walk like the dog, it's not so big a deal anymore.

pretty cool, though. for a Dell...

Eidorian
Jan 4, 2008, 03:01 PM
Still Ugly IMO.It's worse in person.

canisreevus
Jan 4, 2008, 03:06 PM
Those are multimedia capacitive keys not a number pad on the right. It also has a fn key like laptops. I would say it's a nice first effort for an all-in-one for Dell, but I certainly don't think it measures up to an iMac.

Tilpots
Jan 4, 2008, 03:11 PM
Dude, we're getting designers!

gkarris
Jan 4, 2008, 03:12 PM
*#@$ I hate Dell and still can't seem to get away from it, now it's on the homepage of MR....

http://www.ihatedell.net

ZrSiO4-Zircon
Jan 4, 2008, 03:13 PM
Just took a quick peak at dell's online order for the XPS all-in-one....
Not really a bash on the product, more on the order system. Why don't they list the clock speed?
Why do I care what the model number is for the processor? I want to know the speed! I couldn't find any easy way to see exactly what clock speed that xps ran aside from looking up the processor model through intel.

edit: Not the order system, I mean the product description :p

nagromme
Jan 4, 2008, 03:13 PM
Some of the new designs are fine (other than costing more than Macs and not running OS X). But I would NOT want cables spewing out of the side of my screen. It's no wonder the ad photos don't show stuff plugged in there.

I have no trouble turning my iMac towards me to get at the rear ports. It's light and turns easily. The cords then thread through the big hole in the stand, out of sight. (And if I really wanted easier access to USB ports I would have just gotten the regular Apple keyboard, with USB hub built in, instead of the Bluetooth one.)

It's certainly nice to see other companies following Apple's lead and improving their designs, or at the very least making a more serious attempt.

gifford
Jan 4, 2008, 03:15 PM
Ha ha good luck - next my gran will turn emo

QCassidy352
Jan 4, 2008, 03:16 PM
here's my favorite part of Mossberg's review:

In my tests, I found the XPS One to be much better designed and equipped than Gateway’s iMac competitor, also called the One.

Taking a lack of originality to new heights. :rolleyes:

ckurowic
Jan 4, 2008, 03:17 PM
We have already seen PC manufacturers attempt to copy Apple's designs. Such as E-machines, and those ridiculous "colored" HP's in the late 90's when the iMac first came out. From what I recall, they were huge flops.

Wayfarer
Jan 4, 2008, 03:17 PM
It's worse in person.

I second that! In fact, I just saw one the other day. It's really not as great as it is hyped up to be.

Eidorian
Jan 4, 2008, 03:18 PM
I second that! In fact, I just saw one the other day. It's really not as great as it is hyped up to be.Quite true.

I had a chance to see it in person at a local Best Buy. It doesn't really have much on the iMac other then desktop components.

Popeye206
Jan 4, 2008, 03:19 PM
I saw one of the Dell's (XPS) in person. It's nice. Nicer than many PC's, but IMHO it's not nicer than an iMac. The iMac has a simple, clean and elegant design where the XPS is more bulky and busy. One thing I did notice about the Dells... especially their XPS laptops that are trying to compete with the MacBooks... they feel cheap! Thin plastic'y feel. The laptops felt like a toy.

It's good that PC makers (or any product designer) is taking design more seriously... it's one of the big things that makes Apple stand out... but they need to look at quality too... it's the other half of an Apple product that really makes their hardware stand out. Great design and quality.

Is it MacWorld yet? I wonder if CES will be overshadowed this year by MacWorld announcements like it was last year? :-)

Consultant
Jan 4, 2008, 03:19 PM
Their wireless keyboard has a number pad and arrow keys on it!

(or at least I think it does... kind of hard to see what keys the keyboard has and doesn't have from this angle.)

The computer actually looks pretty good I think. Except the dies... why is there so much non-screen to either side of the screen? How big is that screen anyways (and what is the resolution?)

I can't say it looks better than my 2007 iMac though.

It's only 20", has integrated graphics (no real GPU except for one model).
Higher price than the iMac line and no 24".

I think Dell is going to try to hard to make their products look good, and they won't match the simplicity of Apple's hardware.

Yup trying is the key word. Still has Windows. Usability = poor

Digital Skunk
Jan 4, 2008, 03:21 PM
Quite true.

I had a chance to see it in person at a local Best Buy. It doesn't really have much on the iMac other then desktop components.

As is the case with many PCs when it comes to design. The PCs win out on the hardware, but look terrible and are an eye sore intended to be stuck under a desk or covered up with some kind of skin. Not too many PCs actually look good, and have good hardware.

Although, I would like Apple to take a page from the book of PCs, and give us more BTO options and more hardware choices. Maybe a MacBook Pro with highend parts... :rolleyes:

JFreak
Jan 4, 2008, 03:23 PM
Maybe once there's more design PC:s Apple would eventually open OSX for generic hardware? Who knows.

Eidorian
Jan 4, 2008, 03:23 PM
As is the case with many PCs when it comes to design. The PCs win out on the hardware, but look terrible and are an eye sore intended to be stuck under a desk or covered up with some kind of skin. Not too many PCs actually look good, and have good hardware.

Although, I would like Apple to take a page from the book of PCs, and give us more BTO options and more hardware choices. Maybe a MacBook Pro with highend parts... :rolleyes:On a side note, I did try to take the back of the case off in store.

The plastic felt very flimsy. It should have a dedicated graphics card on all models too!

emotion
Jan 4, 2008, 03:29 PM
It might be quite nice to see Apple style laptops everywhere as PCs. Of course the draw is in the OS but...


My prediction. All phone companies (Nokia, Samsung) will also have an iPhone copy in their range over the coming year.

...oh wait.... :)

Maybe once there's more design PC:s Apple would eventually open OSX for generic hardware? Who knows.

...in some kind of cloning scheme perhaps? I'd love to see them try this again properly but somehow I have a feeling it might be unlikely.

Avatar74
Jan 4, 2008, 03:33 PM
On closer inspection... these are loafers. - Rainier Wolfcastle

tgildred
Jan 4, 2008, 03:34 PM
Speaking as someone who is forced to work on a Dell 8+ hours a day, 5 days a week... they should worry a bit more about what's on the inside first.

Moof1904
Jan 4, 2008, 03:34 PM
"A frosted dog turd is not a wedding cake."

plumbingandtech
Jan 4, 2008, 03:35 PM
Speaking as someone who is forced to work on a Dell 8+ hours a day, 5 days a week... they should worry a bit more about what's on the inside first.

Exactly.

A diamond is a beautiful thing, but if it smelled like cow dung (Windows XP/Vista) not a single woman would keep one on her hand.

Bigsam411
Jan 4, 2008, 03:35 PM
I work for a retailer that now sells Dell. We actually carry the Xps one, The Gateway One, the Sony Lt series AIO, the Hp Touchsmart, and the iMac. The only one we sell is the iMac. All of the other ones have much slower cpus than the iMac and they also run Vista.

The Xps One looks fairly decent but sucks otherwise, the Gateway is Garbage, the Sony is basically a 22 in tv with a built in media center pc, The Hp is a touchscreen designed for a kitchen, which leaves the iMac with osx the best solution for people looking for a good all in one.

tothecore
Jan 4, 2008, 03:37 PM
looks like one of their crappy TV's w/ a keyboard...

ATG
Jan 4, 2008, 03:38 PM
Urgh. Here's the visible components of an iMac when sitting at in while it's on:
Stand
Bezel
Black screen border
Screen
Apple Logo

It's a good design because it's simple and uncluttered. That dell is neither.

Digital Skunk
Jan 4, 2008, 03:39 PM
On a side note, I did try to take the back of the case off in store.

The plastic felt very flimsy. It should have a dedicated graphics card on all models too!

I think we talked about that in another thread. If Dell wanted to shake things up they should have made an all-in-one that looked good (or like this current one at least) and had user replaceable parts. It's good that it has desktop parts, but I am not too sure customers looking for all-in-ones are going to be too picky.

And I am very surprised it doesn't have a dedicated GFX card on all of the models.

thedudeAbides
Jan 4, 2008, 03:40 PM
Any one else notice that the "design" tab on the XPS One has an Intel Core 2 "Extreme" Inside logo? An did you also notice that the E6550 is NOT an extreme cpu? maybe an update is soon.

Whether you like the product or not, competition is always good. it was good for getting apple out of the OS 9 days, it was good when AMD and Intel were in a bitter price cutting war (very, very good actually), and it is good now. And competition has definitely forced Apple to price there products within reason. I mean how many times have you heard price comparisons on these forums between apple and dell?

Lack of a dedicated graphics card is inexcusable.

Eidorian
Jan 4, 2008, 03:41 PM
I think we talked about that in another thread. If Dell wanted to shake things up they should have made an all-in-one that looked good (or like this current one at least) and had user replaceable parts. It's good that it has desktop parts, but I am not too sure customers looking for all-in-ones are going to be too picky.

And I am very surprised it doesn't have a dedicated GFX card on all of the models.I believe it was a Gateway One thread. The video card selection is kinda pathetic for an XPS series.

MarlboroLite
Jan 4, 2008, 03:41 PM
This is a good occasion to bring back the old and tired cliché....they can put lipstick on a pig, but it will never match Apple! :rolleyes:

IzzyJG99
Jan 4, 2008, 03:41 PM
You get better stuff in the iMac and for less and in a better design.

Dear, Dell...

...Better late than never? Better to have been never. You would've retained some dignity. What little you had, I mean.

synth3tik
Jan 4, 2008, 03:42 PM
I have always found that XPS One to be one ugly machine. It strikes me as odd that companies like Dell and Gateway can not seem to come up with an all in one design that actually looks good. I do like the ability to have two internal hard drives at least in the Gateway One.

GoodWatch
Jan 4, 2008, 03:45 PM
What absolutely stumps me is the arguably fact that almost every PC manufacturer concentrates more on function than on form. As someone said, home computers have become a commodity. Anyone can make a PC. I can, you can. Just go to a website, select the right components and there you have it, a PC. Spec and performance wise they are all but the same.

Whom of the big players have the guts to hire the likes of Pininfarina or another great design studio to design something really special? I've seen pictures of Olivetti design studies that really can compete with Apple's designs but alas, they never went beyond the mock-up stage.

Somehow Apple have gained a 'design momentum' that attracts the right people. I find that if something is pleasing to the eye, it often becomes pleasing to work with. Suffice to say I will never go back to a PC for home use.

tgildred
Jan 4, 2008, 03:47 PM
Dude, we're getting designers!

This is off-topic, but I always thought it would be kind of funny if, when I die, I go into the light, and the Dell kid is there and he says, "Dude, you're going to hell!"

BlakTornado
Jan 4, 2008, 03:48 PM
Some of the new designs are fine (other than costing more than Macs and not running OS X). But I would NOT want cables spewing out of the side of my screen. It's no wonder the ad photos don't show stuff plugged in there.

I have no trouble turning my iMac towards me to get at the rear ports. It's light and turns easily. The cords then thread through the big hole in the stand, out of sight. (And if I really wanted easier access to USB ports I would have just gotten the regular Apple keyboard, with USB hub built in, instead of the Bluetooth one.)

It's certainly nice to see other companies following Apple's lead and improving their designs, or at the very least making a more serious attempt.

I agree completely. I actually like the fact my wires are out of the way. It makes everything feel cleaner with all the nastiness hidden. Fits perfectly with the concept of the all in one computer. And my iMac glides across my desk perfectly when I turn it around - no friction at all and it's not hard to turn it either. In fact, the back is rather appealing to look at too! These new designs are ok but they just aren't thought out as well. Apple has got a current iMac design that has been perfected over years (Since they started making the G3. Now, I'm sure they've gone as far as they can go in terms of design until technology catches them up) whereas these companies like Gateway and Dell have probably just spent 6 months mushing together a design without really thinking it through, just because the iMac has been selling well.

I certainly don't think these companies have done a bad job but they certainly haven't made an iMac killer and it's unlikely that they will.

Urgh. Here's the visible components of an iMac when sitting at in while it's on:
Stand
Bezel
Black screen border
Screen
Apple Logo

It's a good design because it's simple and uncluttered. That dell is neither.

Sometimes you can see the iSight, too (depends on lighting) and I keep my Apple remote on the stand because Apple removed the magnet.

babboxy
Jan 4, 2008, 03:48 PM
thanks, i went through Dellhell last year...I'm done with their s***

Mr.damien
Jan 4, 2008, 03:48 PM
Dell (and Others) Trying to Catch Up with Apple's Style
Good now Apple should Try to Catch Up with Dell (and Others)'s Price ... :rolleyes:

iMikeT
Jan 4, 2008, 03:49 PM
That's one ugly iMac rip-off.

Consultant
Jan 4, 2008, 03:50 PM
This is a good occasion to bring back the old and tired cliché....they can put lipstick on a pig, but it will never match Apple! :rolleyes:

So true... Also ports are on the side. So it will look like a pig with mess of cables sticking out the side.

CWallace
Jan 4, 2008, 03:51 PM
I bought the Al iMac because I wanted to move to OS X.

If I was still wedded to Windows as my primary OS, something like the Dell XPS One or the new HP and Sony all-in-ones would appeal to me for the same reason - I like the lack of lack of wires and having everything in easy reach in one place.

That the Al iMac just looks slick was a welcome bonus.

palmerized
Jan 4, 2008, 03:58 PM
Everyone has been playing catch up to Apple in terms of hardware and software design -- I'm talking look and feel/user experience -- not performance specs.

Some of the new Dells (XPS) and even some of the HP machines look nice. But, the plastics and other materials used in the products don't seem to be of the same quality as Apple. I'm not saying Apple machines are indestructible, but they are pretty decent. I was using a new Dell here at work, and the keyboard felt so cheap -- same with a Toshiba. IBM Thinkpads -- tops in terms of reliability, IMO.

There's a reason every TV show out there uses Macs as props -- it's because they're slick-as-hell

RoboCop001
Jan 4, 2008, 03:59 PM
For anyone who gets Toronto's CityTV, did you see that episode of Breakfast Television that had a bunch of products on the table and one of them was the HP Touchsmart?

lol it took the entire segment to load, and even after they went through all the other products, it still hadn't fully loaded.

Although it looked like the screen was black the whole time, maybe they didn't even turn it on right lol

But the woman said "OH wow it still hasn't loaded yet. Well that's all the time we have!"

Can't look good for HP. :p

eRondeau
Jan 4, 2008, 03:59 PM
Why does everybody make such a big deal about boot times? I've owned a Mac for four years and I've maybe re-booted it four-dozen times, almost always for software updates and the occasional OnyX clean-up. So what's that, maybe 90-minutes wasted over four years waiting for it to boot? BFD. If waiting for your computer to boot-up is such a major part of your life, I would strongly suggest you're using the wrong computer. :apple:

CWallace
Jan 4, 2008, 04:01 PM
For anyone who gets Toronto's CityTV, did you see that episode of Breakfast Television that had a bunch of products on the table and one of them was the HP Touchsmart?

lol it took the entire segment to load, and even after they went through all the other products, it still hadn't fully loaded.

Although it looked like the screen was black the whole time, maybe they didn't even turn it on right lol

If it was pre-loaded with Windows Vista and this was the first time they turned it on...

At work we get eval laptops from HP with Vista. It takes the better part of 30 minutes for them to boot on first start-up. :eek:

Digital Skunk
Jan 4, 2008, 04:13 PM
Well... look at the bright side... Dell's wireless keyboard has a number pad on the side of it.

jackc
Jan 4, 2008, 04:13 PM
It's not bad, there's really not much to do in desktop design these days, it's just a flat screen monitor.

gnasher729
Jan 4, 2008, 04:14 PM
Maybe once there's more design PC:s Apple would eventually open OSX for generic hardware? Who knows.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

One can build a cheap computer with low profit margin or a more expensive computer with better profit margin. Apple tends to make more expensive computers with higher margins. Now you could make the point not unreasonably that there are customers who can't or won't afford a more expensive computer, and by making MacOS X available to those customers Apple would get money out of that part of the market.

However, these "design" PCs are expensive. They are intended to be sold to people who could afford to buy a Mac (maybe Dell has figured out that they sell ten times as many computers as Apple, get three times as much revenue out of it and less than half the profit). They are often more expensive than a comparable Macintosh. By supplying MacOS X to _those_ computers, Apple would lose a lot of money with every copy of MacOS X sold.

Bakey
Jan 4, 2008, 04:19 PM
This is so funny!

For years [and I really do mean years!!] I've taken the abuse from my PC fraternity loving friends and comrades that Apple is nothing more than form over function...

Weeelllllll!! The Dell and Sony marketing departments have clearly seen this as being something of worth - unfortunately their choice of operating system still leaves a lot to be desired...

Nuff said!!!! :D

Aussie John
Jan 4, 2008, 04:22 PM
Its all no different to the car market. Just because you have a design team doesn't mean your product isnt going to look crap. Some are leadsers of design trends and others are followers.

CWallace
Jan 4, 2008, 04:27 PM
Well... look at the bright side... Dell's wireless keyboard has a number pad on the side of it.

Which was actually a deal-breaker for me, so I kept the basic wired keyboard on my iMac.

Honestly, if not for the fact that I love the "multi-function function keys" on the iMac keyboard, I'd just get another Microsoft 7000 series keyboard and mouse. I really like those at work.

darthraige
Jan 4, 2008, 04:33 PM
Haha.

Keyword: "Trying."

CWallace
Jan 4, 2008, 04:35 PM
Haha.

Keyword: "Trying."

Hey, the PowerMac 8600 wasn't exactly the pinnacle of PC design in her day, either. ;)

50548
Jan 4, 2008, 04:40 PM
Lol @ PC "fashion show."

I guess it is god the industry is trying to catch up, hopefully this will bring even better products from Apple.

BEEN THERE, DONE THAT.

In other words, just as they come up with their fashionably ugly craPCs, Apple continuously sets the bar even higher with major breakthroughs and REALLY creative products...pink? Flat? Come on, this is so old for Apple...

Apart from the fact that the TRUE difference lies in OS X and Apple's marvellous integration between software and hardware, not beige or dalmatian cases of any kind...Apple is ALWAYS DRIVEN by design, while ALL the others are NOT.

The Windows PC industry stinks of copycats, just that...and Microsoft, as usual, leads such "fashion" show of boring copies...there couldn't be a better time for Bill to step down and see its company founder in a few years...:rolleyes:

MacsAttack
Jan 4, 2008, 04:45 PM
there couldn't be a better time for Bill to step down and see its company founder in a few years...:rolleyes:

So what's new? Thought MS had been doing that for the last 5 year or so...

TechHistorian
Jan 4, 2008, 04:46 PM
Good now Apple should Try to Catch Up with Dell (and Others)'s Price ... :rolleyes:

Actually, the Dells are more expensive than comparable iMacs. Mossberg's review even points this out.

RoboCop001
Jan 4, 2008, 04:49 PM
If it was pre-loaded with Windows Vista and this was the first time they turned it on...

At work we get eval laptops from HP with Vista. It takes the better part of 30 minutes for them to boot on first start-up. :eek:

Really?? :confused: :eek: That's redonculous.

Adokimus
Jan 4, 2008, 04:56 PM
Competition is now, as always, a good thing.









p.s. - http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9839464-1.html

philly6687
Jan 4, 2008, 05:02 PM
Dell XPS One= iMac
Gateway One = 20th Anniversary Mac + iMac

How do those PC designers come up with this stuff......

____________
:apple: MacBook. :apple: 8GB iPod Touch. :apple: 30GB iPod Video.

B3CK24
Jan 4, 2008, 05:04 PM
I have to sell the XPS one at work (I work at Best Buy) and honestly, they are built pretty well after looking at them and I reaaaaaally love that they have the built in tracking pad on the keyboard just like the laptops, but thats about it. I always end up taking a customer over towards the Apple table to look at the iMac.

I'll give Dell one thing though, it is much MUCH better built than the lame excuse of an all in one by Gateway called the "one".. I have not sold one of those and I think I will refuse. They are thicker than my samsung lcd TV and the screen is so flimsy and you can actually press the lcds from the outside, what kind of BS is that..

Go :apple:

sas76
Jan 4, 2008, 05:04 PM
Firstly I own a new iMac and I love it. I am not new to Mac's I have owned a few since a G3 powermac way back.

But I didn't buy any of my mac's for there looks, I bought them because it is what I could afford and they did everything I wanted.

If apple put out an ugly grey box (dell etc) loaded with great hardware and OSX , I would have bought one if it was cheaper then the iMac.

Just a different look at this topic, desigh is great but....

Cheers
Shane

John-S
Jan 4, 2008, 05:09 PM
Don't forget Dells new display:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2243334,00.asp

; )

Jonny427
Jan 4, 2008, 05:11 PM
On closer inspection... these are loafers. - Rainier Wolfcastle

:p How come no one quoted this yet?

flashframe
Jan 4, 2008, 05:12 PM
It looks very hi-tech circa 1983.

Design is about emotion, moving with your soul, where shifting a degree to the left or to the right is a broad stroke...or not...Design is being able to tell and feel the difference between chartreuse and verdent green, about discovering masculine angles and feminine curves and vice versa. It's a world within a world within a world where subtle changes influence the big picture. Marry that to technology and you get what Apple is about.

Good luck Dell. But only throwing a lot of money at it won't make it a good design.

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 4, 2008, 05:21 PM
Urgh. Here's the visible components of an iMac when sitting at in while it's on:
Stand
Bezel
Black screen border
Screen
Apple Logo

It's a good design because it's simple and uncluttered. That dell is neither.

Not sure why Apple had to make the Al iMac have a black boarder, however I am not taking too well with it. They should have either made the entire computer Al similar to the MBP or keep the back border and use a darker Al composite. At present the Al iMac is the worst compared to its design history.

It's not bad, there's really not much to do in desktop design these days, it's just a flat screen monitor.

This is quite apparent with the iMac G5 and the Al iMac, the only other direction the industry can go in an all-in-one design is plaster the components as flat as possible to the screen. This design of the iMac is already stale. Same goes for a laptop, you can only make it so thin or rotate the screen and presto you have a tablet. Nothing new here folks.

Which was actually a deal-breaker for me, so I kept the basic wired keyboard on my iMac.

Honestly, if not for the fact that I love the "multi-function function keys" on the iMac keyboard, I'd just get another Microsoft 7000 series keyboard and mouse. I really like those at work.

Actually I like the new Apple Wireless Keyboard, I have the previous model with the number pad and wireless if you want it make an offer. :)

Firstly I own a new iMac and I love it. I am not new to Mac's I have owned a few since a G3 powermac way back.

But I didn't buy any of my mac's for there looks, I bought them because it is what I could afford and they did everything I wanted.

If apple put out an ugly grey box (dell etc) loaded with great hardware and OSX , I would have bought one if it was cheaper then the iMac.

Just a different look at this topic, desigh is great but....

Cheers
Shane

True I never bought any of my Mac products which were usually a PowerBook > iBook > iMac > MBP cycle for their design it was just a bonus, it all depended on price and functionality of my requirements at that given time.

Could never justify a PowerMac or MP as I am either mobile or in love with my free desk space. :D

Since the MB have a glossy screen, I believe I will go ahead and purchase a MacMini (if only it could handle a 30" ACD). :(

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 4, 2008, 05:22 PM
:p How come no one quoted this yet?

Too late in the day for that type of brain processing. ;):D

spidermitch
Jan 4, 2008, 05:27 PM
Although, I would like Apple to take a page from the book of PCs, and give us more BTO options and more hardware choices. Maybe a MacBook Pro with highend parts... :rolleyes:

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this? If you order your Mac online, you get many upgradeable options. I liken a Mac to a Lexus: they don't make a stripped down entry level model. I just bought a new MacBook Pro and I was able to build it out... In fact, it runs shista faster than my new work computer (which is a DhELL).

And for you, Mr. Walt. What is this crap all about: "matches or exceeds the iMac in hardware design". The lines on that Dell are horrible. It looks like a LCD with some speakers bolted on the side. No smooth integration, no clean lines, just a piece of crap, but all in one! Matches or exceeds? I've got a match for you: XPS and my anus!

MacAddict1978
Jan 4, 2008, 05:46 PM
it's fugly and still looks like a dell pc. I don't see the sex in this machine that I have seen in the imacs. They didn't do bad though. I think at the pace they are on, by 2015 they might master the balance of industrial & sexy.

pocketrockets
Jan 4, 2008, 05:49 PM
Dell fails to see that the design and "look" will only get them half the distance. As long as it still only runs Windows, the sleekest design would only appeal to consumers for so long.

Imagine, if my PowerBook G4 ran windows, it would be useless to me. Mac's OS X will keep Apple ahead of the curve regardless of an improved, if not superior, physical appearance of Dell computers.

thattallchap
Jan 4, 2008, 05:50 PM
Aren't Dell missing the point here? The beauty about the iMac is the way it perfectly integrates the wonderfully intuitive OS with the basic functionality of the computer.

Dell cant hope to do that with Windows ......... well not unless they get it to work with Leopard :D

JSchwage
Jan 4, 2008, 05:52 PM
It's about time that PC manufacturers start making computers that actually look like. It's interesting. I've noticed that in my own house all the PCs are under desks or somewhat hidden away, but the Macs in the household are out in the open and on top of desks.
Aren't Dell missing the point here? The beauty about the iMac is the way it perfectly integrates the wonderfully intuitive OS with the basic functionality of the computer.

Dell cant hope to do that with Windows ......... well not unless they get it to work with Leopard :DYou seem to forget that Dell is also now selling PCs with Ubuntu pre-installed. ;)

megfilmworks
Jan 4, 2008, 05:52 PM
There is a leader and there are the followers...I'll stick with the leader:apple:;
and I'll get OS X too!!
The Vaio is a pretty good looking design, but it runs a poor OS.
I don't buy computers for the "look".

JesterJJZ
Jan 4, 2008, 05:53 PM
Wasn't Gateway's version also called "One" ?

akadmon
Jan 4, 2008, 05:55 PM
Why all the negative ratings? Oh yeah, I get it -- fanboy jerk reaction.:rolleyes:

megfilmworks
Jan 4, 2008, 05:59 PM
Why all the negative ratings? Oh yeah, I get it -- fanboy jerk reaction.:rolleyes:I'd call it common sense and past experience.

plumbingandtech
Jan 4, 2008, 06:06 PM
Why all the negative ratings? Oh yeah, I get it -- fanboy jerk reaction.:rolleyes:

:rolleyes::


Maybe because we just think it is nothing more then yet another lousy cheap looking knockoff.

Nahhh... couldn't be that... must be the fanboyism :rolleyes:

spidermitch
Jan 4, 2008, 06:07 PM
fanboy jerk reaction

It always comes back to the name calling. "Fanboy" this and "fanboy" that. When you stop and think about it, there are no Dell fans, no Windows fans, no PC fans. Why? WHY? I mean really, ask yourself why??

The answer: there is nothing to be a fan of! So yes, there are lots of negative comments here, but at least we have something to be a fan of. Show me the Dell fanboy site?? That's what I thought.

I'm proud to be a fanboy, glad that I don't live in the mundane existence of the not-to-much-to-be-a-fan-of PC world.

And my final question, why are you even at a Mac-centric site if you're not a fan? Apple or no Apple, the XPS offers nothing new, nothing breakthrough, and certainly nothing I want to put on my desktop. Do they make a model I can hide underneath?

bluefiberoptics
Jan 4, 2008, 06:07 PM
Good for Dell and the many people that buy Dell computers. I think it's great Dell is paying more attention to design. However, my next purchase will be from Apple.

Competition is a good thing, no need for people to be so negative. :)

collinsra
Jan 4, 2008, 06:07 PM
I love it, everyone is always playing catch up with Apple.

lkrupp
Jan 4, 2008, 06:08 PM
Two words...Jonathan Ive. We have him. They don't. End of story. :D

Padraig
Jan 4, 2008, 06:16 PM
Why all the negative ratings? Oh yeah, I get it -- fanboy jerk reaction.:rolleyes:

It's a bit sad really isn't it, some of the comments. Personally I think the Dell and Gateway machine designs are horrible. At least Dell are finally trying to move in the right direction, and in my opinion they've succeeded with the m1330 (which I rate above the current Apple laptops). Hopefully, Apple will pull out a more contemporary design for the macbook pro in two weeks time.

JackAxe
Jan 4, 2008, 06:17 PM
Great hardware + OS X = great;
Great hardware + Windows = suck;

I use both platforms and I've always built my own PCs. No matter what level of component I put into my PC, whether it's a consumer board, or workstation board, Windows always ruins any enjoyment I had researching and putting together the system. So Eh to any new PC that tries to be more esthetic, especially Dell, a company that cuts corners on the quality of their components. I'm getting a Dell. Yep, you're getting a plastic wrapped low grade PC.

<]=)

mac-er
Jan 4, 2008, 06:21 PM
I'm surprised it has taken this long to get better designs in the PC realm. I'm not going to trash the XPS One just because it is a Dell; it looks pretty good. (iMac looks better).

The commercial for it pisses me off though (the one with the wrecking balls trashing the towers). Basically, Dell is saying, in the commercial, that towers are horrendous. Yet, they still sell them. It is hypocritical.

You don't see Apple trashing the Mac Pro just because they have an all-in-one.

GSMiller
Jan 4, 2008, 06:27 PM
Wow, the base model doesn't even have a dedicated video card. Aside from that it doesn't look that bad, at least until you turn it on and find not only does it have Vista but it's loaded with crapware as well. It may be an improvement over other PCs, but this...

http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/4/1/4/f_Picture1m_0b3fe03.png

Still holds true, evidently.

Oh-es-Ten
Jan 4, 2008, 06:29 PM
Great hardware + OS X = great;
Great hardware + Windows = suck;


This is exactly what everyone is missing, and when Dell et al will continue to lag - even if visually they catch up. They can hire all the best designers and make fantastic looking machines, but the synergy between hardware and OS is why we are all here.

The fact that no other company makes both the OS and hardware says a lot about the knee jerk response of Apple's competition.

External Design != Innovation

Stella
Jan 4, 2008, 06:29 PM
Whilst some non Apple PCs are attractive, they are few and far between. The rest of the PC world have some work to cut out of them to match the Apple design flair.

Personally, I don't find the XPS One that attractive.

areyouwishing
Jan 4, 2008, 06:30 PM
I have to admit, Apple boxes are becoming like the beige boxes of past. Is it going to be black, white, or brushed metal. I find myself looking at other PC manufacturer's (Dell, IBM) for more choice in case design and weight choice.

I would never by a desktop or an all-in-one from anyone besides apple (due to OS and noise), but the laptop designs have been re-hashes for a few years running now. If it wasn't for aperture, I probably would seriously consider getting one.

motomullet
Jan 4, 2008, 06:33 PM
It's not that exciting

Seanyy
Jan 4, 2008, 06:34 PM
the design dosent even touch the mac, this is much to wide with those disgusting speakers and would not even fit in a corner as well as a mac plus the designers went and put the USB's and all the ports on the side which totally ruins the whole simplicity of what the mac looks good for, mac even gave a lead by showing them it makes more sense to put the ports in the back but anyways its obviously not a better design.

Cormac
Jan 4, 2008, 06:37 PM
With the pale and very boring designs they have neglected the traditional home user.

You should try and build those very boring designs like I do. Even the ones that they, Dell, sells through retail outlets like Best Buy, Staples, Wal-Mart and others are just glorified boxes. Especially the white ones.

BlakTornado
Jan 4, 2008, 06:43 PM
Not sure why Apple had to make the Al iMac have a black boarder, however I am not taking too well with it. They should have either made the entire computer Al similar to the MBP or keep the back border and use a darker Al composite. At present the Al iMac is the worst compared to its design history.

I beg to differ. In fact, apart from the G5, I think this is the BEST iMac update they've had. I've seen a 17" Intel White iMac at school and gone home to my alum iMac about 30 minutes later and I honestly say that the alum iMac is MUCH better looking - and not just because I own one. I think the black border gives it a much more interesting design while still retaining the minimalism of Apple designs. Really, it's not bad. When I saw the unveiling pictures, I though "They look really ugly. REALLY ugly" but the design grew on me. They look SO much better in real life. They're beautiful and really aren't a step back in design. They're so nice. I really cannot agree with you in the slightest! Unless Apple comes out with a design that beats the current iMac in two years, I would place my bets on this being the nicest iMac design in competition with the G4 (Mainly due to it's bubbly character). There are literally no design problems with the current iMac at all. There is space for improvement, don't get me wrong, but there are no problems.

This is quite apparent with the iMac G5 and the Al iMac, the only other direction the industry can go in an all-in-one design is plaster the components as flat as possible to the screen. This design of the iMac is already stale. Same goes for a laptop, you can only make it so thin or rotate the screen and presto you have a tablet. Nothing new here folks.

Well there is nowhere else to go. Apple managed to create an elegant design for their all in one and it's as compact as it can really be. Until Technology advances, all they can really do is make it as thin as possible and upgrade the features (I.E. Add a touch screen). You can't improve perfection ;)

spidermitch
Jan 4, 2008, 06:45 PM
I've been surfing Dell and I like one of the "features" of the XPS One: Finished Back Panel

Is that the best they could come up with? Too short of a list of features?

I also noticed no external monitor port. At least they could have added the VGA out like their laptops, and it would be up-to-date... for 2001!! Where's a digital video out??

As someone pointed out, can you imagine having some devices plugged into the sides of this thing? You need a spot 4 foot wide to put the thing.

And lastly, that cheap cable holder in the back! Please, is that the best you could come up with for $1349?!?

Prof.
Jan 4, 2008, 06:51 PM
What's the saying??? Oh yeah... "You can not improve on perfection... unless you're Apple":p

Seriously tho... that Dell doesn't look as good as the iMacs.

Prof.:apple:

Eidorian
Jan 4, 2008, 06:51 PM
Competition is now, as always, a good thing.

p.s. - http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9839464-1.html

Don't forget Dells new display:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2243334,00.asp

; )I can glue a clear plastic border around my monitor too...

The iMac still looks good running Windows. :rolleyes:

Which is sad when it's cheaper to get an iMac + Windows XP then a XPS One or Gateway One.

Kallikinos
Jan 4, 2008, 07:06 PM
I give Dell kudos for at least trying at an All In One computer...but I think :apple: is still the best. Apple has been doing AIO computers for a long time, and they are masters at making them.

The most annoying thing about the XPS One IMO, is the lack of a dedicated video card in the base model...when the base model costs $150 more than a base model iMac...w/ a dedicated video card.

Doctor Q
Jan 4, 2008, 07:13 PM
Boring gray = ordinary PC

Some other shade of gray = "stylish" PC

Non-gray PC = wannabe Mac

mac-er
Jan 4, 2008, 07:21 PM
I have to sell the XPS one at work (I work at Best Buy) and honestly, they are built pretty well after looking at them and I reaaaaaally love that they have the built in tracking pad on the keyboard just like the laptops, but thats about it. I always end up taking a customer over towards the Apple table to look at the iMac.

I'll give Dell one thing though, it is much MUCH better built than the lame excuse of an all in one by Gateway called the "one".. I have not sold one of those and I think I will refuse. They are thicker than my samsung lcd TV and the screen is so flimsy and you can actually press the lcds from the outside, what kind of BS is that..

Go :apple:

You sound like one classy Best Buy employee (and not because you send people over the Apple). I get the impression you really try to help people make a good buying decision instead of just trying to sell something.

pocketrockets
Jan 4, 2008, 07:30 PM
You sound like one classy Best Buy employee (and not because you send people over the Apple). I get the impression you really try to help people make a good buying decision instead of just trying to sell something.

Yeah good for you. Also, Best Buy employees don't work on commission.

I used to work at a flagship Apple Store and I'd always sell what's right for the customer. Within 2 years there, I developed a natural and keen sense of customer service. We didn't work on commission either, thank god.

archurban
Jan 4, 2008, 07:30 PM
hey, don't argue about it. it's all good for customers, right? windows users have also a right to own pretty PC too. I think that it is a good sight for the market. I hope that we won't see ugly PC the near the future soon. Apple design impact is big that many people admit. in terms of industrial design revolution from Apple, even ordinary purchasers consider design & form which is good. I hope that it will be spread all over the companies just like viruses, then keep developing to compete with other.

ryannel2003
Jan 4, 2008, 07:34 PM
I find it interesting after all of these years and seeing how the success of the iMac has changed the computing industry, that Dell is now releasing the XPS One. The design is pretty slick, the specs look decent, but it pretty much bores me to tears. If this had been introduced 2 years ago, I would have been wowed and probably would have applauded Dell for creating an interesting computer. However, with the new Alu. iMac's already on the market, and Apple putting the perfect pricing on those computers along with specs that are comparable to the best PC's on the market, Dell just seems to late to a game that Apple has already played and won. I really believe Dell makes a good tower, and I would buy one in a heartbeat. However, I think they should stick to designing the those.

akadmon
Jan 4, 2008, 07:37 PM
It's a bit sad really isn't it, some of the comments. Personally I think the Dell and Gateway machine designs are horrible. At least Dell are finally trying to move in the right direction, and in my opinion they've succeeded with the m1330 (which I rate above the current Apple laptops). Hopefully, Apple will pull out a more contemporary design for the macbook pro in two weeks time.

Finally a sensible, pragmatic comment. Apple has done very little in terms of improving the design of their computer hardware over the past several years; what was ahead of its time 2-3 years ago has become run of the mill, bordering on ho-hum. Perhaps this finally well get them off their asses/arses.

DaBrain
Jan 4, 2008, 08:08 PM
Why all the negative ratings? Oh yeah, I get it -- fanboy jerk reaction.:rolleyes:

Me thinks you should look in thy mirror! :D

EagerDragon
Jan 4, 2008, 08:13 PM
Lol @ PC "fashion show."

I guess it is god the industry is trying to catch up, hopefully this will bring even better products from Apple.

Maybe next Apple commercial will have PC changing into many different outfits. We seen him in drags already, so what's next?

whit1009
Jan 4, 2008, 08:17 PM
Why doesn't Dell, and other computer companies try to make something better than Apple, rather than copying it! Seriously, every time Apple comes out with a new iPod, phone, computer, etc. you see a new phone commercial from verizon or a new computer commercial from Dell within a month!! And with the exact same features, just not as ingenious! :apple:

pscoble
Jan 4, 2008, 08:27 PM
Yeah that XPS is pretty hideous for what it is supposed to do and those creepy commercial with the high little girl singing doesn't help their cause. VAIO wins in the PC world as far as design their compact laptops are pretty well done.

eric55lv
Jan 4, 2008, 08:27 PM
Other companies like Dell will never get it there designs are ugly(ecspaclly XPS 1)wont be as good as the iMacs their to bulky,big,and not so all in one

stainlessliquid
Jan 4, 2008, 09:13 PM
Not sure why Sony was mentioned, theyve been making stylish and simplistic computers under the VAIO brand 2 years longer than Apple and still make better looking stuff than Apple from time to time. Its ridiculous to assume they are trying to play catch up.

I remember seeing the first VAIO at Circuit City in 1996, I was blown away, no other computer (especially not Apple, who was still rocking beige) came close to how cool that thing looked, of course it had a price to match its elite look too though. I believe Sony was the first computer maker to think outside the box and say that computers shouldnt be boring, they should go with your interior decor just like your stereo systems instead of looking out of place.

M!K
Jan 4, 2008, 09:16 PM
i can't believe this guy who reviewed the Dell something said that the design exceeds :apple:'s iMac!!! This is ridiculous. The Dell is sooo ugly compared to the more-than-beautiful iMac.

I'm shocked!!
I hate Dell sooooo much:mad: Their computers are always so ugly.

Apple's the best. It'd be great for every other company to stop trying to copy Apple.

DiamondMac
Jan 4, 2008, 09:17 PM
If Dell wants to keep up with Apple, try making machines worth a crap

Had 3 Dell's...two at home and one given to me by work...all three were some of the worst machines I ever used hence my moving to Apple soon after and now never looking back

law guy
Jan 4, 2008, 09:28 PM
http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/monitors/crystal_overview1.jpg

I like the circuits embedded in the glass and they even caught on to the notion of a single cable. The main Dell site has a flash intro with several views of it. I like that is has a well-hidden built in web cam as well The write-up: "Panel Performance
Amazing 1680 x 1050 resolution for stunning detail, fast 2-millisecond (gray to gray) response time for fluid motion, and a high 2000:1 contrast ratio. Dell Crystal features a 98%2 color gamut versus the 72% color gamut found on typical LCD monitors. View more color shades and tones than previously possible. Get vivid hues, remarkable depth and pictures bright enough for viewing under most lighting. Enjoy deeper reds, crisp blues and sparkling whites." It would be nicer if it were offered in other sizes other than 22".

Dell introduced a new 30" monitor today that looks better than their last version (which was okay) - albeit more conventional - and they've adopted a nice matte aluminum surround. http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20080104/Dell_3008WFP.jpg High level specs ala CNET: "The image here doesn't do it justice, but the 3008WFP has a brushed aluminum housing that sits atop a glossy, flat base (say goodbye to the Flying V stand of last year's model). And the cantilever arm allows for more flexible positioning. 3008WFP boasts the standard dual DVI ports and an analog VGA port, but it also serves up HDMI and component connections, plus a DisplayPort connection. (You should begin seeing DisplayPort graphics cards in a month or two.) There are even composite and S-video ports, should you need to connect older devices. Rounding out the connection goodness are four USB ports and a media card reader. It features the same 2560x1600 native resolution of last year's model and an impressive 3000:1 contrast ratio."

twoodcc
Jan 4, 2008, 09:44 PM
well i'm not surprised by this. the PC guys are copying apple, again

Kingsly
Jan 4, 2008, 09:46 PM
Wait... what? :confused:

http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/xpsdt/xpsdt_highlights/xpsdt_one_design5.jpg


http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/1370/store.apple.com/Catalog/regional/amr/imac/img/overview-hero.png

Ive should be shuddering in his boots right now. :rolleyes:

slinky0390
Jan 4, 2008, 10:27 PM
just from looking at the picture, it still screams something other than apple.. the one thing i love about apple is how everything is seamless, no rough edges, just a sleek design..

metallicaisgood
Jan 4, 2008, 10:34 PM
It seems attractive enough, definitely good looking for a PC from Dell. Is it as well designed as an iMac? No..

Digital Skunk
Jan 4, 2008, 10:42 PM
I haven't chimed in for a while and I can see that the PC fanboys on this site are already starting to whine about our comments.

Just remember Windows lovers:

(1) We talked this topic to death month before when this thing was rumored and with the Gateway One.

(2) PC makers failed to compete because they aren't offering the features that were keeping many from switching to Apple; expandability, and practicality.

(3) Their models have less to offer compared to the iMac and are more expensive

(4) As another poster pointed out it's cheaper to get an iMac and Vista and just run it under Bootcamp, and you get away with two OSes and a better looking machine.

We do hope to see better designs from Apple, and the Dell M1330 and 1530 are good examples of how Dell is starting to care about industrial design, but the XPS One and Gateway One don't hit the mark when it comes to AIO designs. Even if you like the look, the price for what you get is what really kills it. You might as well get a tower.

11800506
Jan 4, 2008, 10:55 PM
In my opinion, the Dell XPS One's design does not measure up to the iMac at all. It just isn't cohesive and with the speakers sticking out the sides (while it may be better for sound quality) I really think it detracts from the design. While Dell is showing some signs of life in their design department, the Dell XPS One really just doesn't measure up to the iMac in my opinion.

DMann
Jan 4, 2008, 11:33 PM
In my opinion, the Dell XPS One's design does not measure up to the iMac at all. It just isn't cohesive and with the speakers sticking out the sides (while it may be better for sound quality) I really think it detracts from the design. While Dell is showing some signs of life in their design department, the Dell XPS One really just doesn't measure up to the iMac in my opinion.

I second that.......... looks cheap, angular, and flimsy. Looks like a DELL.

inkswamp
Jan 5, 2008, 01:19 AM
At the time, Dell only employed 6 designers, but this number has been increasing in recent years and is up to 90 as of today.

Rampant wannabe-ism.

The problem with Dell and other PC makers (and for that matter, Microsoft) isn't their lack of designers, but their lack of design philosophy. I try to make this point with Windows fans when they claim that Vista is just as nice looking as OS X so we Mac users have nothing to gripe about anymore and should shut up. It's not that it's just as nice looking, but rather that Microsoft borrowed every idea in Vista from some other source (mostly OS X, but elsewhere too.) It's not the design elements per se that people respond to. It's the design philosophy that leads a company to discover that kind of thing.

When I read that Dell is hiring loads of designers, I know where it's going. A pool of designers will just descend into committee-based thinking and will produce bland, uninteresting products that ape whatever is popular at the moment. A single designer or two with a real design philosophy, a truly developed aesthetic, is what these companies need if they're serious about it.

flashframe
Jan 5, 2008, 01:55 AM
[QUOTE=law guy;4698376]http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/monitors/crystal_overview1.jpg

This, whatever it is, could be beautiful. Instead, it's busy - too many elements interfering with the tranquility of the glass. Whoever threw it together took the design from a glasstop table from B&B Italia, which is a clear glass rip version of an Arne Jacobsen table design from 1958. I'm definitely of the old school Mies Van Der Rohe less is more design philosophy.

Now, if it had just been a clean, clear, beautiful piece of glass...we'd be talkin'.

cwedl
Jan 5, 2008, 03:42 AM
i can give pc manufacturers a tip. STOP USING PLASTIC!

GoodWatch
Jan 5, 2008, 04:06 AM
i can give pc manufacturers a tip. STOP USING PLASTIC!

What is the MacBook made of? :rolleyes:

bigandy
Jan 5, 2008, 04:42 AM
What is the MacBook made of? :rolleyes:

Love. Just love. ;)

genoco
Jan 5, 2008, 04:46 AM
Is good that other companies are more aware of their product design. After all, technologies under the case are pretty much the same across the board. Big prop to Dell.

Sannekita
Jan 5, 2008, 05:41 AM
some competition will do apple good i think. Hopefully they'll come up with some new products and update their existing ones.

LiveForever
Jan 5, 2008, 06:02 AM
It's not just PC companies who are being influenced by apple. I work for a company which designs and engineers stuff (not computers) and the ID dept worship Jon Ives and apple. So much so that apple design ques are everywhere. Trouble is, everything is starting to look like the ipod mini, (full rad curves etc) ie i was out when a lot of the stuff released now was first on the drawing board. It's no way to go, what companies should do is evolve their own style, copying others only looks desperate and dated especially as apple new ipods look nothing like their old ones. I love Industrial Design but companies should find heir own voice.

Look at Lexus who blatantly copy BMW-their image is forever tarnished as plagerists (which they quite obviously are)

Mr.damien
Jan 5, 2008, 07:26 AM
Actually, the Dells are more expensive than comparable iMacs. Mossberg's review even points this out.
Yeah, but where are the Mac at 400$ dude ? Humm ?

chelsel
Jan 5, 2008, 07:37 AM
Don't get me wrong, I love OS X but Apple hardware design leaves a lot to be desired. Put OS X on the HP nw8440 chassis and you have a design that will take Apple past 7% market share.

slidingjon
Jan 5, 2008, 07:43 AM
90 Dell designers vs. Jonny Ive?

It's just not fair for those Dell guys.

fdxd
Jan 5, 2008, 08:21 AM
Dell have improved. at least their stuff isnt ugly as it used to be.

But Dell just seem to copy cat Mac or even Vaio (glass and small laptop design). Doesnt give their designs much substance and weight. Something which Apple always manage.

bluefido
Jan 5, 2008, 08:34 AM
Competition is a good thing. Having other companies trying to one up Apple on a design level will only force better products from Apple.

Maccus Aurelius
Jan 5, 2008, 09:36 AM
The XPS One really does look like a solid offer from Dell, and on many occasions I've been able to fully recommend Dell computers to people, particularly their Latitude computers (as I find them to be solid as rocks). However, I can't bring myself to recommend this. Design aside, it's just a poor deal compared to the rest of the XPS lineup, even if this is an all-in-one, but then, being an all-in-one, it's easily bested by the iMac in terms of sheer value. The iMac can just as well run Windows, but the sad part is that it does so for less money, even if one opted for VMware Fusion, so that they can run both OS's simultaneously, and has discrete graphics across the board. This alone totally blows apart these hokey claims that Macs are always more expensive yet offer less. I will give Dell credit for putting Blu-Ray disc as a BTO option in this machine though.

As for design, this thing looks better on paper (or computer screen) than it does in person. There's just no rhyme or reason about the looks of it, and those flashy glowing buttons on the side really detract from the overall look, especially the crescent that represents a disc when it's inserted. That is just too cheesy for words.

I'm not sure what Mossberg is talking about. There just doesn't seem to be much about this that makes it any better than the iMac whatsoever.

ClassicMac247
Jan 5, 2008, 09:40 AM
As soon as I saw the television ad for the Dell XPS 1, I loudly proclaimed to my family that it was a total copy of apples architecture and design. It still doesnt compare, our iMac is beautiful, their dell is just a slimmer "dull" computer.

Bastards, they realized people like beautiful machines.:apple:

cwedl
Jan 5, 2008, 09:46 AM
What is the MacBook made of? :rolleyes:

Macbooks are made of "space age" plastic :rolleyes:

BlakTornado
Jan 5, 2008, 09:47 AM
What is the MacBook made of? :rolleyes:

Aluminum...


... Wait, I'm thinking this is 2009 ;)

CWallace
Jan 5, 2008, 10:06 AM
Why doesn't Dell, and other computer companies try to make something better than Apple, rather than copying it!

Because they're pushing volume, not style. They may not be as pretty, but they sell in far greater numbers. They also generally have shorter product life-cycles then Apple - around six months (when a new CPU series is released) versus the twelve to twenty-four months of Apple. So they can't necessarily invest in a more "boutique/unique" form factor and both recover the costs plus generate the necessary RoI that Apple can with their much longer sales periods.

Although price might hurt how fast this happens, I would not be surprised one bit if the Dell XPS One starts to outsell the iMac on a monthly basis and then overtakes it in total units sold.

Azurael
Jan 5, 2008, 10:28 AM
Imitation is the biggest form of flattery, no?

Doctor Q
Jan 5, 2008, 10:32 AM
This, whatever it is, could be beautiful. Instead, it's busy - too many elements interfering with the tranquility of the glass. Whoever threw it together took the design from a glasstop table from B&B Italia, which is a clear glass rip version of an Arne Jacobsen table design from 1958. I'm definitely of the old school Mies Van Der Rohe less is more design philosophy.The Dell display could be even more spartan, but it already reminds me of a Mies Van Der Rohe design. Here's a photo I took last year of the lobby of one of the towers at 860-880 Lake Shore Drive in Chicago. (He designed the lobby and its furniture as well as the buildings themselves.)

But Apple's own designs can be compared to Mies Van Der Rohe as well. Here's a Mac stock photo compared with my photo of the outside of the Lake Shore building.

savar
Jan 5, 2008, 10:36 AM
Welcome to earth dell. With exceptional service and a great level of customization they have most targeted businesses and upper middle class consumers. With the pale and very boring designs they have neglected the traditional home user.

Thankfully they have realized why their computers aren't a hot topic amongst the cool kids. They are walking on the right path now, the XPS and MX1530 looks really good. But since many here are apple fan boys you will use this thread to bash Dells instead. All they need now is a design chief to create a uniform design or image for their future computers.

I'm not a fanboy, but you will probably construe the following in that light anyway, because you're an antifanboy.

These new Dell designs are not clever, or interesting, or even aesthetically appealing. They are bulky and rigid, with harsh angles and wasted space, and they did very little to make it look like they weren't ripping off the imac wholesale.

None of this really matters to me. What annoys me is the commercial that they're airing now. This commercial features the "imac killer" sitting in the middle of a room that is modeled like a museum, with computers sitting on top of white pedestals. All the other computers in the room are the beige boxes of the 80's and 90's, and a wrecking ball is exploding them.

The ad is meant to imply that Dell is somehow "blowing up" those old, boring PC companies with their "fresh and exciting" new design. But in fact, Dell is the company responsible for all of those old, boring computers, because Dell was always too arrogant to compete against Apple directly and they just contently dominated the commodity PC market competing directly against other uninspired companies like HP, Gateway, and Acer on economies of scale, supply chain management, etc. They didn't compete on product at all, they just competed on business model.

Now that Apple is moving past them, they are pulling their head out of their butt and racing to copy the company that they arrogantly ignored for years. There is still not true innovation, however; these new designs are just a crossbreed between the black/silver design they've had for about 5 years now and the imac computer-behind-screen concept.

savar
Jan 5, 2008, 10:42 AM
[QUOTE=law guy;4698376]http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/monitors/crystal_overview1.jpg

This, whatever it is, could be beautiful. Instead, it's busy - too many elements interfering with the tranquility of the glass. Whoever threw it together took the design from a glasstop table from B&B Italia, which is a clear glass rip version of an Arne Jacobsen table design from 1958. I'm definitely of the old school Mies Van Der Rohe less is more design philosophy.

Now, if it had just been a clean, clear, beautiful piece of glass...we'd be talkin'.

Also, what's the deal with the tripod stand?? I like the desk space that a flat panel saves me. That tripod is doubling the desk area you have to devote to that monitor.

zakatov
Jan 5, 2008, 11:37 AM
I didn't read the whole thread, but I want to comment on the article. I just hate the the world still thinks that Apple only makes the iMac... no towers, no laptops, no monitors.... just iMacs. That is all.

andy721
Jan 5, 2008, 11:44 AM
Looks cheap as hell, like all the other dells.
I won't buy it if my life depended on it.!:mad::mad::mad:

Wu Ming
Jan 5, 2008, 11:54 AM
I can't believe no one posted the Jobso quote yet:

“Most people make the mistake of thinking design is what it looks like. People think it’s this veneer — that the designers are handed this box and told, ‘Make it look good!’ That’s not what we think design is. It’s not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works.”

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2007/november#wed-28-stupid

Digital Skunk
Jan 5, 2008, 12:03 PM
I can't believe no one posted the Jobso quote yet:

“Most people make the mistake of thinking design is what it looks like. People think it’s this veneer — that the designers are handed this box and told, ‘Make it look good!’ That’s not what we think design is. It’s not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works.”

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2007/november#wed-28-stupid

From the specs it doesn't work as good as the iMac anyway, which is why this thing isn't worthy of begin called an XPS, which are in many ways better than the Apple desktops. This machine just doesn't cut it design wise either way.

rockosmodurnlif
Jan 5, 2008, 12:12 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
At Dell, in 2001, some were even lobbying for the elimination of the Design Director job as it was seen as "unnecessary". At the time, Dell only employed 6 designers, but this number has been increasing in recent years and is up to 90 as of today.

I thought people knew designing in committee didn't work ...

I didn't read the whole thread, but I want to comment on the article. I just hate the the world still thinks that Apple only makes the iMac... no towers, no laptops, no monitors.... just iMacs. That is all.
No the world knows they make those pretty white Macbooks and that touchscreen iPhone. But I think Apple forgot they make towers too, so why not the rest of the world?

SheriffParker
Jan 5, 2008, 12:13 PM
The Dell display could be even more spartan, but it already reminds me of a Mies Van Der Rohe design.

Noooooo.... Mies would never spring for a tripod base like that... Didn't you see how his furniture often blends the vertical and horizontal members into one bar:

http://www.nova68.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/TECTAD42BLACK.jpg

http://common.csnstores.com/common/collections/16023.jpg

Actually a more similar combination of minimal parts with multiple functions is the folded base of the ACD

http://es.appleweblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/apple-cinema-23-i1.gif

That Dell monstrosity is way too busy... the standalone tripod base isn't integrated, and the speakers in the glass are unnecessary. Maybe for teens who want a gaming screen with a juvenile sense of "design", this is the ticket, but for more austere, sophisticated design, one would have to look elsewhere.

disconsolator
Jan 5, 2008, 12:31 PM
This thing is a polished turd. And a poorly one at that. A glass stand is just tacky. And the way the back casing of the computer comes up to a point a poor design. Every single piece of the computer looks individual and does not come together as a whole. The tacky glass base and the hard edged metal stand don't go together and neither does the way the stand goes into the back of the computer. They had to put a bevel on where the stand goes in and it dips in instead of having a continuous integrated flow. And the speakers on the side look like dumbo ears. Oof, just not working.

TechHistorian
Jan 5, 2008, 12:44 PM
Yeah, but where are the Mac at 400$ dude ? Humm ?

On eBay and CraigsList. And they'sll still run OS X -- unlike the $400 Dells.

You're not gong to find an XPS1 for less than a comparable iMac. If you don't believe me or Mossberg, price them for yourself. And the cheapest XPS1 has integrated video -- even the cheapest iMac has a separate video card.

MrCrowbar
Jan 5, 2008, 12:56 PM
Lol @ PC "fashion show."

I guess it is god the industry is trying to catch up, hopefully this will bring even better products from Apple.

"God, the industry". Can I copyright that? Would be an awesome brand name
I also use "Mark Of The Unicorn" (MOTU) products. I just like fancy brand names.
:p

MrCrowbar
Jan 5, 2008, 01:02 PM
[QUOTE=law guy;4698376]http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/monitors/crystal_overview1.jpg

This, whatever it is, could be beautiful. Instead, it's busy - too many elements interfering with the tranquility of the glass. Whoever threw it together took the design from a glasstop table from B&B Italia, which is a clear glass rip version of an Arne Jacobsen table design from 1958. I'm definitely of the old school Mies Van Der Rohe less is more design philosophy.

Now, if it had just been a clean, clear, beautiful piece of glass...we'd be talkin'.

It's pretty for a Dell, but still ugly. So much wasted space. Do I really want to see the speakers and the wires? There's a reason why the iMac's power button is hidden.

pomus
Jan 5, 2008, 01:24 PM
Not sure why Apple had to make the Al iMac have a black boarder, however I am not taking too well with it. They should have either made the entire computer Al similar to the MBP or keep the back border and use a darker Al composite. At present the Al iMac is the worst compared to its design history.


I disagree with you on this one. Usually, when dealing with illustrations that have values, it is good practice to add a thick true black border to get an idea of the contrast within the image. I don't think apple decided to randomly add a black border on the screen. I think they added it so we could get a better contrast. Plus it matches with the cool black apple :p .

CmdrLaForge
Jan 5, 2008, 03:29 PM
We use Dell at work. I have to use one every day :mad: Haven't seen one with a good design so far. I hope that will change.

MacFly123
Jan 5, 2008, 04:25 PM
It's better than their other computers but nothing still compared to the iMac. Not to mention it is expensive and thats not even with a 24" screen lol. But I do think the whole all in one design in general is appealing to consumers and I think that Apple should make a fullsize wireless keyboard and wireless mouse standard!!! That and drop the DAM& Combo drive already (in the MacBook), GEEZE! :rolleyes:

MacFly123
Jan 5, 2008, 04:36 PM
[QUOTE=law guy;4698376]http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/monitors/crystal_overview1.jpg

This, whatever it is, could be beautiful. Instead, it's busy - too many elements interfering with the tranquility of the glass. Whoever threw it together took the design from a glasstop table from B&B Italia, which is a clear glass rip version of an Arne Jacobsen table design from 1958. I'm definitely of the old school Mies Van Der Rohe less is more design philosophy.

Now, if it had just been a clean, clear, beautiful piece of glass...we'd be talkin'.

AMEN!!! Those speakers are the fugliest crap I have ever seen lol. And how do you put two of these monitors next to eachother??? LOL :rolleyes:

chatin
Jan 5, 2008, 04:56 PM
Mosberg missed the biggest piece of the iMac style. The Apple logo on the front and back! :o

Digital Skunk
Jan 5, 2008, 05:02 PM
I think that Dell monitor is a tad bit overrated. It would have been nice 3 years ago but now it's kinda plain. The clear case is nice as is the built in speakers but the tripod stand is AWFUL!

I say make it a TV and call it a day.

lost eden
Jan 5, 2008, 05:05 PM
I think that Dell monitor is a tad bit overrated. It would have been nice 3 years ago but now it's kinda plain. The clear case is nice as is the built in speakers but the tripod stand is AWFUL!

I say make it a TV and call it a day.

The ACDs were nice 3 years ago. Now they're hideously outdated.

Digital Skunk
Jan 5, 2008, 05:17 PM
The ACDs were nice 3 years ago. Now they're hideously outdated.

And I won't disagree with you. It's time for an update to those, but at least they came out 3 years ago and not a year from now.

mac-er
Jan 5, 2008, 05:41 PM
It always comes back to the name calling. "Fanboy" this and "fanboy" that. When you stop and think about it, there are no Dell fans, no Windows fans, no PC fans. Why? WHY? I mean really, ask yourself why??

The answer: there is nothing to be a fan of! So yes, there are lots of negative comments here, but at least we have something to be a fan of. Show me the Dell fanboy site?? That's what I thought.

I'm proud to be a fanboy, glad that I don't live in the mundane existence of the not-to-much-to-be-a-fan-of PC world.

And my final question, why are you even at a Mac-centric site if you're not a fan? Apple or no Apple, the XPS offers nothing new, nothing breakthrough, and certainly nothing I want to put on my desktop. Do they make a model I can hide underneath?

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. If you go to the product page of the One, there are plenty of reviews of people that love Dell and the One. One review actually says that Dell stays on top of design and innovation (now whether those are real reviews are not is another topic, but I tend not to be a conspiracy theorist).

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that everyone else agrees with you. There are plenty of Dell, PC, and Windows fanboys and lovers. God bless 'em.

And, I love Apple's products. But, my loving the products doesn't make everything else crap. And, it won't be the end of the world if someone chooses to use a Windows computer.

Orre
Jan 5, 2008, 06:22 PM
Oh.. That was one ugly piece of junk! Apple has had 3,5 years head start and this is what they came up with?! Congratulations Dell ;)

burnchick
Jan 5, 2008, 06:37 PM
Dell to Mac as Zune to iPod:D

l'homme
Jan 5, 2008, 06:59 PM
Just copycats that tend to fail.

IVIIVI4ck3y27
Jan 5, 2008, 08:15 PM
While I genuinely have to agree that the XPS One is awful, I do have to admit that the Dell Crystal LCD they are putting on-sale is very nice in terms of Industrial Design. It also doesn't ape on the Apple look but goes it's own way which to me is a definite first for PC ID.

That said... it's exorbitantly expensive for what amounts to being a 22" widescreen HD monitor for a computer. It makes the price tag and featureset on the Mac Cube seem competitive with the old G4 towers it was underfeatured/underexpandable in comparison to. By comparison, the stylish Mac mini (despite the argument made about the use of the laptop hard drives cutting into storage capacity for the person wanting to build up a huge iTunes or iPhoto library) brings awesome styling at an affordable pricepoint in what can truly be called a "modular" computer that is less about upgrading and more about replacing every few years. Even Apple didn't get it with the cube, but they certainly have gotten it with the mini's pricing... even if there's many that have hoped for more out of the mini since it went Intel. Of Apple's designs, it's the one that's really seen the least amount of time and effort spent into... it's used the same motherboard design pretty much since the Intel mini's birth. While the Macbook didn't stray far from the iBook design, similarly to the Macbook Pro from the Powerbook G4... the guts have been bumped a few times. The G5/Mac Pro similarly hasn't changed visually, but considering it's purpose... it's a workhorse and honestly... even it's guts have seen an array of changes.

If there's one thing to be said... Dell and the rest might finally be stepping out of the dungeons into the light, but they're not assessing what their primary competition's past successes and failures have stood to show. Style, does *NOT* outsell convenience and usability, you can't go Bang and Oluffsen like Apple did with the Cube and various iterations of "the Anniversary" Macs with design at outrageous pricepoints and expect huge sales. True, a Dell doesn't have to be a boring beige box (most are black today; the XPS towers are colored and honestly... despite following the gamer "in your face" aesthetic, they're still relatively attractive machines), it doesn't have to be an AT-standardized tower in casing design (which most desktops are, or are Flex-style designs). Yet... trying to gussy up a monitor with tempered glass to the point it costs 4x's the competition... just to be stylish? I don't see the volume sales in that. In fact... I don't see many sales in that, period.

The iMac is truly ingenious design, it's attractive in styling... all the more now that it's draped in aluminum and a sinister black motif that breaks free from the shackles of white and silver. The material selections = awesome. As a non AIO guy and one that hopes to see Apple give us a stylish headless wonder or two (i.e. Santa Rosa-based Mac mini's in black/silver... perhaps a *new age* cube above it in a similar black/silver motif with regular desktop drives and dedicated GPU) in a week or two... even I am somewhat smitten by the iMac redesign. I still dislike AIO's for the overall conglomeration of parts that are fused into one package and the lack of option to upgrade that breeds... but I can respect the look of the new iMac moreso than any iMac prior. In fact... considering I have a Xerox XG-91D on my Mac mini, even the glass on the display is a selling point to me (enhances color definition, protects the screen, helps boost color contrast... everything looks crisper IMHO) vs. the bane it has been for others.

That said, good design does not mean it has to cost significantly more than a current desktop. The XPS One does offer a lot for the $, but it still looks like they glued the guts of a desktop into a fattened up version of their pre-existing LCD monitors. From a design standpoint, it's still the same old bland design with a set of speakers stuck to it's sides. Dell's LCD's = good pieces to be sure (dad's Mac mini has a 20" Dell widescreen on it, it's quite a nice piece for the $), but they're more about usability than stylishness. I mean, comparing the looks of a Cinema Display to a Dell LCD, it's a no contest deal. I love the Cinema's, I just can't justify the cost difference... color correction or not (not like my dad's a graphic designer). In fact, the later Samsung's (on which Apple and Dell have shared their panels with) are far more stylish than Dell's options, looking much like their very attractive piano black LCD and Plasma TV's. That said, if I can snag a Dell LCD at the right pricetag... I can overlook the casing it comes in for the awesome LCD panel it has. That's what I generally end up looking at more than not staring at a LCD anyways.

Compared to an iMac, it's not even close for Dell. Given an XPS One with the styling of the Crystal LCD at the same pricepoint as the XPS One, one could finally argue that Dell is starting to get it. The Crystal LCD is beautiful in it's own way, it's just ludicrous in it's own way as well. Until then... no, no, no, and no. It's probably not a bad machine for a PC, but once again... when comparing box x, y, and z... what you see is pretty much, par for the course. The XPS One is no exception. It's still too "no frills" in aesthetic to really make the proper chic statement.

gschumsky
Jan 5, 2008, 10:05 PM
At Dell, in 2001, some were even lobbying for the elimination of the Design Director job as it was seen as "unnecessary". At the time, Dell only employed 6 designers, but this number has been increasing in recent years and is up to 90 as of today.



Wow, 90 designers. And this is the best they can come up with. Anyone know how many designers (aside from Jonny Ives) Apple has?

skeep5
Jan 6, 2008, 12:19 AM
This thing is a polished turd.

ROFLOL! I almost puked.

da2005pizimp
Jan 6, 2008, 12:29 AM
it looks as if they tried way too hard, it def. looks like something apple would have come out with. knowing dell it will cost a million and one dollars.

kockgunner
Jan 6, 2008, 01:41 AM
when you're dealing in commodities (PC's), it's pretty basic that styling would be the differentiator.

welcome to 1920, Dell! brave new world 'n all...:rolleyes:

haha. aldolf huxley. clever.

rhpixelfreak
Jan 6, 2008, 02:14 AM
Apple does industrial design excellently but to be fair you can pick on their decisions, also.
Like the iMac still having a "chin"! It would probably look better without it even if that meant making it fatter.
And the eternal use of shiny metal in ipods which attracts smudges, fingerprints and scratches.
And the old keyboards with the clear plastic so you can be disgusted by the crumbs, hairs and insects that fall through the keys. And sticking to one button mice for too long! (these don't apply anymore, thankfully)
Oh yeah... and why put a 2 megapixel camera in a $400 phone and cheap webcams on the $1000+ computers.

I guess you could say I'm an Apple fanboy, too. But I like to think one can be objective.

Mackilroy
Jan 6, 2008, 01:54 PM
Oh yeah... and why put a 2 megapixel camera in a $400 phone and cheap webcams on the $1000+ computers.

Apple put new cameras in the computers. :)

ezekielrage_99
Jan 6, 2008, 04:46 PM
And it still comes down to the fact that Apple innovates the rest follow Apple's lead...

TenaciousJ728
Jan 6, 2008, 06:12 PM
It's nice that they're FINALLY making slim all-in-one PCs! Dell, Gateway, and (I think) HP! :D

But Apple has been way ahead of the PC manufacturers ever since!

:apple: Go Apple! :apple:

archer75
Jan 6, 2008, 08:49 PM
That doesn't make any sense at all.

One can build a cheap computer with low profit margin or a more expensive computer with better profit margin. Apple tends to make more expensive computers with higher margins. Now you could make the point not unreasonably that there are customers who can't or won't afford a more expensive computer, and by making MacOS X available to those customers Apple would get money out of that part of the market.

However, these "design" PCs are expensive. They are intended to be sold to people who could afford to buy a Mac (maybe Dell has figured out that they sell ten times as many computers as Apple, get three times as much revenue out of it and less than half the profit). They are often more expensive than a comparable Macintosh. By supplying MacOS X to _those_ computers, Apple would lose a lot of money with every copy of MacOS X sold.

It's all about volume. You may lose money on hardware(people would still buy apple hardware) but you make a ton of money on software sales alone. You get your OS on more computers along with ilife and iwork and you make a fortune.

Darkroom
Jan 6, 2008, 09:00 PM
Walt Mossberg is dumb... and needs to goto art school... that dell has nothing on the iMac... N O T H I N G

Bababasjd
Jan 7, 2008, 12:21 AM
.....and 89 of those 90 are drunk, blindfolded toddlers... :rolleyes:

I must say the dell one looks so dam ugly. It looks like a cheap piece of crap. Who in the hell would buy that chunk of garbage get me an imac and I am not apple fan boy im just speaking common sense. If they have 90 people for dells design team then dell really has serious hiring issues. think smart. think apple:apple:

Bababasjd
Jan 7, 2008, 12:22 AM
Walt Mossberg is dumb... and needs to goto art school... that dell has nothing on the iMac... N O T H I N G

Walt Mossberg is not dumb heck I would say the same thing if I were paid a couple of million. Welcome to reality, those editor choice is nothing more than a big fat bonus check. trust me my brother used to be an editor for PC world. It is all a scam these reviews. notebook forums is a good place but even there, hard fans can miss the problems.

sdds
Jan 8, 2008, 05:37 AM
Jeebus kryst! They're still fugly even compared to yesteryear's Macs. I agree with above poster that they must have major issues hiring decent staff of all their 90 designer can come up with is this... But then again, it's Dell we're talking about.

Oh, and I agree that Mossberg isn't dumb. Anyone who gets paid for writing up bullcrap can't be that dumb, can they?

Cloetus
Jan 8, 2008, 11:43 AM
I almost fell over laughing watching the Dell slideshow about this monitor. On the slide about the stand, they point out that it's "Designer-Inspired". Not designed, or anything, but inspired by designers. They are seriously clue-impaired.

jbrucato
Apr 17, 2009, 09:50 AM
It looks very hi-tech circa 1983.

Design is about emotion, moving with your soul, where shifting a degree to the left or to the right is a broad stroke...or not...Design is being able to tell and feel the difference between chartreuse and verdent green, about discovering masculine angles and feminine curves and vice versa. It's a world within a world within a world where subtle changes influence the big picture. Marry that to technology and you get what Apple is about.

Good luck Dell. But only throwing a lot of money at it won't make it a good design.

flashframe, it's people like you that make me want to abandon Apple all together and switch back to the PC. Reading this kind of crap makes me sick.

michael.lauden
Apr 17, 2009, 09:58 AM
PC companies have come a long way. i was at my grandmother's house 2 days ago setting up their hi speed internet + wifi (finally made the switch from dialup), and her laptop was a CHORE to pickup!!

it was a 8 year old HP, it had speaker grates on the front that kept shocking me when i put it on mute haha.

Digital Skunk
Apr 17, 2009, 10:10 AM
flashframe, it's people like you that make me want to abandon Apple all together and switch back to the PC. Reading this kind of crap makes me sick.

You have to have better reasons to adopt or leave the Mac platform.

Some person's views can't be one of them.

Glad that you re started this thread though. Cuz now we have solid aluminum laptops and new ACDs from Apple, but we also have some not so bad designs from the PC market as well.

Apple still leads on the outward appearances of the machine, but i'll still have to give the internals to the PC makers (that is, what they can put into the case, not just how clean it looks). The Mac Pro is the cleanest desktop I've ever had the pleasure of stuffing my hands in though.

Goona
Apr 17, 2009, 10:14 AM
flashframe, it's people like you that make me want to abandon Apple all together and switch back to the PC. Reading this kind of crap makes me sick.

I just don't get when people write stuff like this, so someone saying something like this will all of sudden cause you to go and abandon something. There are people like this on both sides of the fence. Shows how much people have over your decisions in life.

redrabbit
Apr 17, 2009, 10:15 AM
Sometimes it's more beneficial to having an uglier computer....just putting that out there.

Digital Skunk
Apr 17, 2009, 10:18 AM
Sometimes it's more beneficial to having an uglier computer....just putting that out there.

Like the iPod case that was the shell of a brown Zune... :D

Because no one would ever want to steal a brown Zune.

redrabbit
Apr 17, 2009, 10:27 AM
Like the iPod case that was the shell of a brown Zune... :D

Because no one would ever want to steal a brown Zune.

:D That's actually the exact reason I'm switching back to PC, haha. I'm going to be doing a lot of traveling in poorer nations in Asia and honestly don't want to be lugging around a $2000 shiny aluminum laptop. I also want to keep the smug factor toned down around people not as fortunate as myself.

http://www.primemeridia.com/temp/south-park-smug-313.gif

Digital Skunk
Apr 17, 2009, 02:13 PM
:D That's actually the exact reason I'm switching back to PC, haha. I'm going to be doing a lot of traveling in poorer nations in Asia and honestly don't want to be lugging around a $2000 shiny aluminum laptop. I also want to keep the smug factor toned down around people not as fortunate as myself.

http://www.primemeridia.com/temp/south-park-smug-313.gif

Same reason a netbook still have a place in my life. Having a $350-->$450 fully featured laptop that's under 2lbs and fits anywhere is just something that should interest and gadget freak.

If it's lost with the luggage or stolen..... so what. It wasn't the $2000 Apple and didn't have sensitive info on it.

Sehnsucht
Apr 17, 2009, 11:58 PM
http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/monitors/crystal_overview1.jpg

At first glance it's a bit odd but I guess it could grow on me. At least it's better than Dell's usual spartan offerings. :D

WAIIIITTT A MINUTE...built-in speakers? Built-in webcam? Hmmmm, this is really ringing a bell somewhere...:D

Oh yeah, and has anyone seen Dell's MacBook Air knockoff, the Adamo (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/adamo/topics/en/us/adamo-pearl?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19)? It even uses an external DVD burner that looks EXACTLY like the MBA's external SuperDrive. :D Not to mention, it's priced at $2,700 for the fully pimped out model. I guess the Windows fanbots who constantly ridiculed the Air for being a useless waste of money can't say anything now. :p

Sehnsucht
Apr 18, 2009, 12:02 AM
:D That's actually the exact reason I'm switching back to PC, haha. I'm going to be doing a lot of traveling in poorer nations in Asia and honestly don't want to be lugging around a $2000 shiny aluminum laptop. I also want to keep the smug factor toned down around people not as fortunate as myself.

:eek: Depending on what nation you visit, even a $299 netbook would be a fantastically fabulous wonder to behold. ;) And smugness comes from the person, not the computer itself.