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View Full Version : Linux, Leopard Can't Bite Vista


MacBytes
Jan 5, 2008, 12:26 AM
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Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Linux, Leopard Can't Bite Vista (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20080105012619)
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Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
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Football1maniac
Jan 5, 2008, 12:47 AM
Finally! For once in the past year, I've seen an article that gives Windows Vista a thumbs up!

I enjoy Vista a lot, and just today I was in the Apple Store, and it just felt different to me using OS X. Sure, its probably a lot better, but once SP1 comes out for Vista, many of those headaches are going to go away.http://www.istartedsomething.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/vistalogosound.jpg

Killyp
Jan 5, 2008, 12:49 AM
Maybe that's because you're used to Windows and not Mac OS?

Whenever I use Windows, it feels 'wrong', and I run a PC as well as Macs in my house...

RubberShoes
Jan 5, 2008, 01:07 AM
Finally! For once in the past year, I've seen an article that gives Windows Vista a thumbs up!

I enjoy Vista a lot, and just today I was in the Apple Store, and it just felt different to me using OS X. Sure, its probably a lot better, but once SP1 comes out for Vista, many of those headaches are going to go away.http://www.istartedsomething.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/vistalogosound.jpg

to contradict myself, im using it right now to type this...BUT STILL...it can be a nice OS at times and sometimes its the worst thing to roll down the pipe, I guess it depends on how you use it...

but overall...c'mon dude....OS X is 15 million times better, except DreamScene, Ill give Vista that...

poppe
Jan 5, 2008, 01:14 AM
I honestly have never had a problem with Windows. The problem I had was the hardware that windows computers are on.

I had an old HP with some OEM piece of s- monitor. It was so horrible. It froze all the time, was so slow, and the cd burner stopped working right after the 3 month warranty (I think it was 3 month).

I know windows has its problems but really it can work pretty damn well at times. And it is a pretty nice thing when practically everything is made or specified for windows; you know what I am talking about if you are in college and the teacher wants you to use some online crap to turn in homework.

With that said I do love my MBP. I've had about 10 kernel panics since I've had it (last year november), but it still is a joy to use.

jamesi
Jan 5, 2008, 01:19 AM
microsoft has been providing poor coding since....well ever since they came onto the scene. of course vista is going to be a money maker, they have all the distribution channels secured enough to where it doesnt matter what they produce, ppl are going to buy it b/c it is the easiest/standard solution.

zephead
Jan 5, 2008, 01:33 AM
Haha, the article even has at the top "Friday Flamebait". Not much credibility in an article clearly labeled as such, is there?

And I agree with jamesi, MS can put out anything (i.e. Vista) and people will buy it because it's Microsoft, and they think that it's the only choice they have. :rolleyes:

neonblue2
Jan 5, 2008, 03:36 AM
I prefer the graphical niceties, sound drivers and WiFi to work in my OS thank you very much.

Flip3D: Not working on one laptop, slow on another (Mobility Radeon HD 2300)

Sound: Lost sound driver, then lost the sound card entirely

WiFi: Security needed to be turned down just to access a simple Wireless-G WPA encrypted network, even then had several problems seeing the network. Three on Vista, three on Mac OS X. Only the Macs had no issue.

angelwatt
Jan 5, 2008, 07:10 AM
Well seeing how Mac and Linux use has gone up and Windows respectively down I can't understand how they can say they didn't take a bite out of Vista. No one expected a huge bite. Mac and Linux will will steadily gnaw at Windows and gain more ground over time as people actually come to understand they have choices and understand the choices them self. That's the next hurdle really. More people are realizing Apple is an option over Windows, but they don't really know what that means so they don't go for it. Apple's commercials definitely don't help this as they provide zero information besides "look, hey Apple still makes computers." Educating users is never easy.

Eraserhead
Jan 5, 2008, 07:23 AM
That looks like a decent article, it doesn't seem bias, I think he's wrong about the importance of PC gaming, but that's a minor point. The real issue with the article is the headline

chris200x9
Jan 5, 2008, 10:24 AM
it's easy to say Vista is dominating in terms of sales because when you buy a PC what does it come installed with, Vista. And microsoft counts that as a sale, so pretty much dominate the market share dominate sales, it's a no brainer. As far as dell "hawking" when you find a PC to buy do they give you the choice vista, xp or ubuntu, NO you have to actively search for a ubuntu PC. I can't say anything about Walmart since I don't know anything about their sales. I close this by saying I would like to see what percent of people ACTIVELY upgraded.

shadowfax
Jan 5, 2008, 12:20 PM
I guess there are a number of interesting things here... The biggest thing I feel like the author really misses is that Windows, along with Office, bankrolls Microsoft's other various flops and "loss leaders." OS X, on the other hand, is a profitable OS (not AS profitable of course) that is the crown jewel of a number of other HUGELY successful products--iPod, iPhone, Macs, iTunes Store...

That, along with the crappy reviews, makes its beginning decline potentially dismaying. Vista will be the next De Facto standard in operating systems, in 2-3 years. maybe sooner. But what about the next release? and the next one? Microsoft is clearly in decline amongst a couple of big players (Google/Apple) who are booming like no tomorrow. If you're a short-sighted idiot, of course there's nothing to worry about...

Quillz
Jan 5, 2008, 12:33 PM
to contradict myself, im using it right now to type this...BUT STILL...it can be a nice OS at times and sometimes its the worst thing to roll down the pipe, I guess it depends on how you use it...

but overall...c'mon dude....OS X is 15 million times better, except DreamScene, Ill give Vista that...
I trust what you have to say, as you obviously have no bias whatsoever. And no, OS X is on par with Vista, it's not better or worse.

QuarterSwede
Jan 5, 2008, 12:39 PM
Apple's commercials definitely don't help this as they provide zero information besides "look, hey Apple still makes computers." Educating users is never easy.
The ironic thing is the marketing of the iPhone is EXACTLY why it's such a massive seller. Apple's actually showing you what you can DO with the iPhone and how bloody easy it is to use. People go running to AT&T or the Apple Store after that.*

*Every time I'm in either an Apple or AT&T store people are buying an iPhone and at the Apple Store it's more than one.

deputy_doofy
Jan 5, 2008, 12:44 PM
...With that said I do love my MBP. I've had about 10 kernel panics since I've had it (last year november), but it still is a joy to use.

Perhaps you should see if you have some faulty hardware. I've been using multiple Macs since 10.1 (and others before OS X, but they don't count in this discussion) and have maybe had up to 5 kernel panics total. 10 in a year suggests faulty hardware or you're trying to do some crazy virtualization.

Full of Win
Jan 5, 2008, 01:09 PM
My issue with Vista was that its too "in your face" for me. IMHO, the app/program is the star of the show, not the OS. Starting with XP, and now even worse with Vista, the garish look permeates everywhere and detracts from the user experience. With OS X, it just seems, more mature and calm. However, as with types of things, its really a YMMV issue.

I know nothing of code/structure of these things, so I cannot really say which one is better. I've seen XP crash and I've seen OS X crash.

Kevin83165
Jan 5, 2008, 01:13 PM
I have never had a kernel panic on any Mac ever, only heard of them

crackpip
Jan 5, 2008, 01:22 PM
The ironic thing is the marketing of the iPhone is EXACTLY why it's such a massive seller. Apple's actually showing you what you can DO with the iPhone and how bloody easy it is to use. People go running to AT&T or the Apple Store after that.*

*Every time I'm in either an Apple or AT&T store people are buying an iPhone and at the Apple Store it's more than one.

The iPhone is a very different beast, though. It's relatively simple and very different from the competition. Ads that show how it works make much more sense. For Mac's and OSX, it's much more complicated, and much harder to show clear differences between OSX and Windows. Apple's webpage is for showing individual features. Feature based commercials, which have been done before, would likely just get ignored.

crackpip

crackpip
Jan 5, 2008, 01:55 PM
I have never had a kernel panic on any Mac ever, only heard of them

Your lucky. I don't get kernel panics very often, but I do get them from time to time. I was able to reproduce a Kernel panic when I upgraded to iPhoto 08 on my OSX Server workstation. I have no idea what the problem was, but when I deleted all the cache and preferences files, the panics stopped. The worst, for me, is when an application crashes that controls some fundamental UI piece. Then I have to hard restart even though the rest of processes are working fine. For example, my authentication process crashed the other day, when I was switching users. No authentication was possible. It was just stuck on the login screen. Couldn't ssh into it, couldn't restart, because you need to enter a password to restart when other users are logged in. But the NAT was working fine for my other machines.

What I find interesting about my Mac usage, is that osx's problems frustrate me a lot more than Windows or linux. With Windows or linux, I just say to myself "this is ****", and kludge together whatever I needed to get done. But, with osx, I get a lot more vocal, "Goddammit, Apple. You're implementation of virtual desktops is a piece of ****!" Then proceed to list a bunch of things that need to be fixed. I still love my Macs though, it's really an ideal platform for scientists. Soon, I hope to be much more of my own boss, then I can tell the IT staff to make room for my Macs.

crackpip

Wikinerd
Jan 6, 2008, 08:39 AM
I have never had a kernel panic on any Mac ever, only heard of them

Never seen of a kernel panic (i mean as in even my friends never had any) even though I've been running my iMac intel Core 2 duo 24/7 for 5-6 months now (usu. the computer is not allowed to sleep due to bittorrents running)

____________________________________________________________
The ironic thing is the marketing of the iPhone is EXACTLY why it's such a massive seller. Apple's actually showing you what you can DO with the iPhone and how bloody easy it is to use. People go running to AT&T or the Apple Store after that.*

*Every time I'm in either an Apple or AT&T store people are buying an iPhone and at the Apple Store it's more than one.

As for me, who lives in Hong Kong*, I've heard of the iphone through friend conversations that started WAY be4 the marketing campaign started. I searched it myself during that time and heard rumors/etc. The bloody Marketing campaign they use now started after around one or two months after the initial release. Marketing the iPhone is the worst I've ever seen among iPod commercials/ads/marketing. ("inviting someone to speak...etc")

And I bought mine because it's quite compatible with my iMac NOT for it's bloody ease of use and UI

poppe
Jan 6, 2008, 02:17 PM
Perhaps you should see if you have some faulty hardware. I've been using multiple Macs since 10.1 (and others before OS X, but they don't count in this discussion) and have maybe had up to 5 kernel panics total. 10 in a year suggests faulty hardware or you're trying to do some crazy virtualization.

Yeah I did check. I have taken it in multiple times to Apple, but each time they have told me that I am not able to do anything about it. Once they said I got Kernel panics because I had icons that were changed; they also then wouldn't touch my computer saying I modded OS X...

I have a lot of problems with my computer (screen doesn't turn on after sleep is a big one), but I have just gotten used to it since the stores won't help me at all.

Anyways I figure my next mac purchase will hopefully be better

macnulty
Jan 6, 2008, 05:18 PM
Yeah I did check. I have taken it in multiple times to Apple, but each time they have told me that I am not able to do anything about it. Once they said I got Kernel panics because I had icons that were changed; they also then wouldn't touch my computer saying I modded OS X...

I have a lot of problems with my computer (screen doesn't turn on after sleep is a big one), but I have just gotten used to it since the stores won't help me at all.

Anyways I figure my next mac purchase will hopefully be better

Invest in Tech Tools and Disk Warrior. They are a must have for a Mac. I've had kernal panics but have usually be able to trace them to hardware issues, like loose airport card or one time with hard drive. Start with single user mode and run fsck over and over until no errors are reported. That is start up holding down command-s than when prommpted type "fsck -y". Then use DW for directory repair and Tech Tools for hw checks.

poppe
Jan 6, 2008, 06:31 PM
Invest in Tech Tools and Disk Warrior. They are a must have for a Mac. I've had kernal panics but have usually be able to trace them to hardware issues, like loose airport card or one time with hard drive. Start with single user mode and run fsck over and over until no errors are reported. That is start up holding down command-s than when prommpted type "fsck -y". Then use DW for directory repair and Tech Tools for hw checks.

Oh cool! Thanks for this.

what is "fsck"

winmacguy
Jan 6, 2008, 06:39 PM
Oh cool! Thanks for this.

what is "fsck"

Unix for File System Check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fsck

Silencio
Jan 6, 2008, 07:25 PM
Continuing to wander off-topic somewhat: I haven't thought of TechTool Pro as being very useful for a long, long time.

DiskWarrior is still an essential tool, though.

For hardware checks, you're well enough off using the Apple Hardware Test disc that came with your system. For more thorough memory checking, I prefer running MemTest through AppleJack (not Leopard compatible yet, though).

Techguy172
Jan 6, 2008, 07:27 PM
I prefer the graphical niceties, sound drivers and WiFi to work in my OS thank you very much.

Flip3D: Not working on one laptop, slow on another (Mobility Radeon HD 2300)

Sound: Lost sound driver, then lost the sound card entirely

WiFi: Security needed to be turned down just to access a simple Wireless-G WPA encrypted network, even then had several problems seeing the network. Three on Vista, three on Mac OS X. Only the Macs had no issue.

This isn't vista's fault it's ATI's whoever makes your sound driver and who ever makes your wifi card.