Apple Announces Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther)

[MacRumors]

Confirming a number of recent rumors, Apple officially announced Panther (Mac OS X 10.3) (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=SVBIZINK3.story&STORY=/www/story/10-08-2003/0002031829&EDATE=WED+Oct+08+2003,+08:31+AM) today.

The latest update to Mac OS X will be available on October 24th beginning at 8:00pm. Special events will be held on October 24th in Apple's retail stores and authorized resellers to celebrate the introduction.

Mac OS X 10.3 will be available for $129 for a single user license. A $199 5-user family pack is also available.

Meanwhile, the new Panther upgrade is available for a shipping and handling fee through the Mac OS Up-To-Date program for: 1) all customers who have purchased a PowerMac G5 (regardless of purchase date), 2) all purchasers of any new Mac after October 8th, 2003, or 3) anyone who has puchashed Jaguar (Mac OS X 10.2) after October 8th.

Word that Mac OS X (10.3) has hit "Gold Master" first appeared last week (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031001164435.shtml), while hints at an October 24th release (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030922162504.shtml) had been noted by a Page 2 rumor (http://page2.macrumors.com) and recently confirmed (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031006115654.shtml). Meanwhile, a last minute rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031006155138.shtml) on Monday had predicted today's official announcement.

[macMaestro]

Way cool! I love that countdown clock on Apple's website. Can't wait to get it!

[NicoMan]

£99 for us in the UK. Free Shipping. Sweet.

[Nik_Doof]

Yay there goes my upgrade to 10.3, any pb purchased after the 8th....DOH. Guess ill have ot w8 a while for a upgrade then.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Macrumors
all customers who have purchased a PowerMac G5 (regardless of purchase date)
Wow that's a surprise! Some people had mentioned that, but I couldn't (wouldn't) believe them. Good for them.

[martijnvandijk]

the money's ready!
just can't wait to install it on my new 15''

[taran]

At last! Let's hope it lives up to all the hype (I'm sure it will).

I can finally go out and buy my G5.

:)

[The Shadow]

This is good news and will "finish" the new G5s.

Caught me by surprise! I want it!

[azdude]

WahooOooooOoOoO!

[jxyama]

giving "free" upgrade for those listed is a good call. i know some of us will be "screwed" by the oct. 8th, but i imagine that would with any other date.

i have to wait until univ. of michigan stores get them and sell me a copy at a special discount.

[MightyB]

How much?


NEVERMIND....found it!!!!!! $69

[cr2sh]

I've already started trying to clear my calender, find out where I'm going to be on the night of the 24th and which Apple Store will be closest...

According to the index, theres only "10 days" remaining.. but today is the 8th... ?
<edit>
must of been a glitch.. says 16 now...

[AmigoMac]

God, My creditcard is free now.... fantastic! am i first?

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by jxyama
giving "free" upgrade for those listed is a good call. i know some of us will be "screwed" by the oct. 8th, but i imagine that would with any other date.

i have to wait until univ. of michigan stores get them and sell me a copy at a special discount.
I guess you have to draw the line somewhere.

[starflyer 59]

Great, I am happy that everyone who bought a mac recently gets to pay for a full upgrade. It is good to know that their OS was top of the line for a couple of weeks!!!

Rediculous.

[nick.hill]

You seem to be able to buy a family pack for the USA, but not on the UK apple store.. Any reason why not?

Or am I being thick (Very likely)

N:)

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by Nik_Doof
Yay there goes my upgrade to 10.3, any pb purchased after the 8th....DOH. Guess ill have ot w8 a while for a upgrade then.

Where does it say the 8th? I get my Powerbook tomorrow so I guess I am ok but I can't load the Apple site with so many hits...

Jason

[nagromme]

I hit Refresh until the Store came back, and ordered :)

Says delivery PM 10/24... but I went with the free shipping so we'll see.

I like the cool black box...
http://www.apple.com/macosx/images/indextopbox10082003.jpg

[iwantanewmac]

I bought a new mac 8 days ago and now I have to pay again $149 for an upgrade...bah..................

[nick.hill]

Originally posted by nick.hill
You seem to be able to buy a family pack for the USA, but not on the UK apple store.. Any reason why not?

Or am I being thick (Very likely)

N:)

Ah okay! I found it now... Feeling silly

[Nik_Doof]

Originally posted by aswitcher
Where does it say the 8th? I get my Powerbook tomorrow so I guess I am ok but I can't load the Apple site with so many hits...

Jason

Meanwhile, the new Panther upgrade is available for a shipping and handling fee through the Mac OS Up-To-Date program for: 1) all customers who have purchased a PowerMac G5 (regardless of purchase date), 2) all purchasers of any new Mac after October 8th, 2003, or 3) anyone who has puchashed Jaguar (Mac OS X 10.2) after October 8th.

Mine is being delivered in a few days but i dont think i'll get the free upgrade... It was actually "shipped" on the 7th...DOH.

[september29th]

Originally posted by iwantanewmac
I bought a new mac 8 days ago and now I have to pay again $149 for an upgrade...bah..................

Amen brotha.

.motor city rollie, who purchased a 15" AL 9 days ago.

[Jays]

Great news, the only thing is that I find it absurd that I have to pay full price to upgrade Mac OS X 10.2 server to 10.3. thats over the $500!

[airbag]

oohhh....! Everytime I hit 'refresh' on the Apple site, and see something new, my heart skips a beat. This is great!

Look at that cool black packaging! loooovely!

AlBook 15"w/Panther, here I come..!

[aic]

I ordered a BTO 15" Albook on 17th September and it still hasn't arrived at my reseller. Seeing i only paid a 10% deposit, when i pick it up is that when i purchase the item, thus getting the Panther upgrade?

[AngryAngel]

Did they bundle 9.2 with 10.2?
They are charging an extra $20 for 9.2 (if you want it) when you buy 10.3.

No sign on the UK site of Panther "up-to-date" details.

[arn]

Originally posted by aic
I ordered a BTO 15" Albook on 17th September and it still hasn't arrived at my reseller. Seeing i only paid a 10% deposit, when i pick it up is that when i purchase the item, thus getting the Panther upgrade?

Probably based on the date on your receipt.

arn

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by Jays
Great news, the only thing is that I find it absurd that I have to pay full price to upgrade Mac OS X 10.2 server to 10.3. thats over the $500!

1. You cannot get something for nothing... ever.

2. Apple has several ways of mitigating upgrade costs for business customers. They're right there on the Mac OS X Server page on apple.com, too.

3. If you don't want to pay, don't upgrade.

[WackyM]

Dammit! My soon to arrive 15" Albook just shipped out on the 7th! No free or cheap upgrade for me.. D'OH!!!!!

But I'm still gonna get it. Yay for educational pricing :D

So does anyone have a pretty good guess as to what the build of Panther is that's packaged for official release? Would 7B85 be it, or is 7C more probable?

[pimentoLoaf]

Wish there could've been a more realistic "up-to-date" offer for those of us with new alumaBook g4's.

Because of other software purchases with my machine -- and .mac renewal on the 15 Oct -- I won't be getting the new OS for awhile.

[macstudent]

I just ordered the upgrade for my G5 and it says the estimated delivery is OCt 24th PM. I am hoping that it will be delivered earlier since last year I had a friend who received the up to date jaguar and he received it in the mail a day or two before jaguar was released.

[bankshot]

I knew it! :mad:

Somehow I just knew that since we had to have our new PowerBooks this week at work, that Apple would wait us out by just a few days and then announce Panther with no free update for us! The machines haven't even arrived yet (were supposed to be here yesterday, what's up with that?), but since they were ordered last Friday, I'm sure they do not qualify. YOU SCREWED US OVER, APPLE!!!




Just kidding. :D

It's true about the new PowerBooks, but I was fully aware of what would likely happen when we finally had to order last week. It was really too bad, but I don't fault Apple. Anyone who ordered before today expecting a free upgrade was, quite frankly, a bit foolish. Glad it worked out for you G5 people... :)

While $258 (2 machines) is small peanuts for a large company to pay, I may have trouble convincing them to buy it. Just getting some PowerBooks approved in a workplace where Mac and Apple are almost dirty words (we removed those two words from all the purchase paperwork just to be sure -- just PowerBook G4, Service Protection Plan, Keyboard, etc... heh) was a major accomplishment. To turn around so soon and tell them, by the way, we need this other software we didn't tell you about last week may piss some people off. I don't know... If it were free, that'd make it a whole lot easier! :p

That said, I already pre-ordered for home, $69 educational discount, baby! Woohoo! :cool:

[Romanesq]

for delivery this morning on the UPS truck. I had made the order over the weekend through J&R online. Should I refuse the delivery???

Have the reseller - redo the order?
Complain to apple?

Just got off the phone with apple. Poor rep, she's boxed in the policy.
Says I can call the reseller.

Seems a shame to let a poor PB go to waste, just to reship it today?:confused:

[jaykk]

If I order an 15' AlBook today, will it have panther pre-installed or wait for few more days so that i dont have to shell out another $20 for S&H?

[MattG]

I've got a Powermac G4 that I ordered over a week ago, but won't ship out until the 16th +/-. Do I qualify for a $19.95 copy of Panther?


edited--forgot to mention it's a G4

[sparky76]

I'm fairly new to the Mac (having come in at 10.2.4). Is 10.3 worth rushing out and buying or should I wait for 10.3.1 for the bugs to be ironed out?
I'm guessing build 7B86(approx) was GM and 10.3, so is the fact that there is a build 7C01 evidence they have already found bugs?

[arn]

Originally posted by MattG
I've got a Powermac that I ordered over a week ago, but won't ship out until the 16th +/-. Do I qualify for a $19.95 copy of Panther?

If it's a G5... yes.

arn

[adamfilip]

well i called and placed my order!

had some trouble with the canadian online form.. wouldnt take my postal code or province.

so i called.. and I cant Wait!

[arn]

Originally posted by sparky76
I'm fairly new to the Mac (having come in at 10.2.4). Is 10.3 worth rushing out and buying or should I wait for 10.3.1 for the bugs to be ironed out?
I'm guessing build 7B86(approx) was GM and 10.3, so is the fact that there is a build 7C01 evidence they have already found bugs?

The existance of newer builds doesn't mean anything.

There probably are a few bugs.... there always are. If you are nervous about it, you can wait to see if there are any major problems from people once they install it... but I personally wouldn't hold off just for the 1. upgrade.

arn

[Lord Bodak]

Honestly I think this sucks. The up-to-date program should be the same across the board. Why should a user who purchased a G5 receive an upgrade when a user who purchased a new PowerBook does not?

Of course I knew when I purchased that Panther was coming, and I expected to pay for the upgrade, and if the upgrade program were equal for everyone I probably wouldn't be upset.

[MattG]

Originally posted by arn
If it's a G5... yes.

arn Sorry guess I should have further explained -- it's a G4 Powermac. Looks like I don't apply.

[themacolyte]

The Apple Store for Education displayed a graphic of Panther at the top of the page with small blue type stating, "Order today for evening delivery on October 24th".

Is that right? Can they actually state 'evening delivery'? What shipping company is going to make those deliveries? Or do they really mean evening 'pick up' at your nearest Apple Store?

[nagromme]

Just for the record... these prices ARE upgrade prices. NOT "full" prices.

The "full" price is not listed because you can't buy a Mac with no OS... the OS is always included with each Mac. Thus, EVERY purchase of Panther is an upgrade.

So don't expect to see two prices, full vs. upgrade like you would with Photoshop or something.

The up-to-date "free" ($19) deal is only fair of course.

[nalfein]

Woohoo

[alset]

Woooooohoooooooooooo! What a great way to start your day!

Dan

[chazmox]

Cool...

But I have two Mac's... do I really need to buy two licenses??? Or can I buy one and install on both machines.

I've always interpreted licensing as applying to one human - one copy and not one computer - one copy. When computers become legal entities that can own ( and buy! ) their own SW then it can be one computer - one license.

Also, does anyone know when new laptops will have panther installed when purchased?

[MattG]

Originally posted by nalfein
This is so pathetic. I'm university student and i just bought nice 15" powerbook i receive 9 days ago. I ate about only bread and peanuts butter for the past 5 month to be able to get my computer and now, 9 days after i receive it, they tell me i'm have to paid 200 US to upgrade os X to panther?

I think this is kind of pirate encouraging comportment.

now i'm realy think i will return my computer and buy a new peecee with linux, so i will never have to paid for upgrade anymore.

So :) it's the only thing to do $200?? Edu discount price is $69.

[the future]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
Honestly I think this sucks. The up-to-date program should be the same across the board. Why should a user who purchased a G5 receive an upgrade when a user who purchased a new PowerBook does not?

Of course I knew when I purchased that Panther was coming, and I expected to pay for the upgrade, and if the upgrade program were equal for everyone I probably wouldn't be upset.

I think Apple chose to give G5 customers the free upgrade because 10.2.7 (which the machines shipped with) is really less than ideal for the G5, optimization-wise, and Panther is the first "real" OS for the G5.

[MattG]

Originally posted by chazmox

I've always interpreted licensing as applying to one human - one copy and not one computer - one copy. When computers become legal entities that can own ( and buy! ) their own SW then it can be one computer - one license.
That's how I interpret it, especially considering I just spent a combined $4000 on new Macs in the past month, neither of which are going to qualify for the 'up to date' program.

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by AngryAngel
Did they bundle 9.2 with 10.2?
They are charging an extra $20 for 9.2 (if you want it) when you buy 10.3.

No sign on the UK site of Panther "up-to-date" details.

Apple officially killed OS 9 at the beginning of the year, and as far as their concerned stopped shipping it with Jaguar. I doubt you'll see it now in the box with Panther.

[G5trinity]

Life is good for us G fivers....power and a cheap upgrade....Ah so sweet. :)
However G4 PB are getting screwed! bummer dudes:(

[claytonbench]

I placed my order about 1 or 1.5 hours ago and cant wait. I have no problem spending 129 per copy.

EDIT: I just remembered 69.00 per copy YAH!!

[nalfein]

Originally posted by MattG
$200?? Edu discount price is $69.

i think i talk alittle too fast


hehehehe

[jer2665]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
Honestly I think this sucks. The up-to-date program should be the same across the board. Why should a user who purchased a G5 receive an upgrade when a user who purchased a new PowerBook does not?

Of course I knew when I purchased that Panther was coming, and I expected to pay for the upgrade, and if the upgrade program were equal for everyone I probably wouldn't be upset.

My guess is because the 10.2.7 with the g5's now isn't as good as they'd like. probably idealy they'd rather have released g5's with panther, but had to just change a few things in 10.2.7 to make it take a little bit of power for the 64 bit-ness. so the g5's really NEED panther, and the others supposedly run fine with 10.2.8. it's a posibility. just my opinion.

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by september29th
Amen brotha.

.motor city rollie, who purchased a 15" AL 9 days ago.


bring it back

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by chazmox
Cool...

But I have two Mac's... do I really need to buy two licenses??? Or can I buy one and install on both machines.

I've always interpreted licensing as applying to one human - one copy and not one computer - one copy. When computers become legal entities that can own ( and buy! ) their own SW then it can be one computer - one license.

Also, does anyone know when new laptops will have panther installed when purchased?

Nope. When you buy a Mac OS X license, you're buying the right to use the software on a single computer. If you have two computers, you should buy two licenses. Actually, if you have two, you should buy the 5-user pack for $199.00. It's a bargain.

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
Nope. When you buy a Mac OS X license, you're buying the right to use the software on a single computer. If you have two computers, you should buy two licenses. Actually, if you have two, you should buy the 5-user pack for $199.00. It's a bargain.

who knew Steve Jobs and bill gates reproduced. Are you the one who filed the lawsuit against the twelve year old girl....

[dongmin]

Originally posted by chazmox
Cool...

But I have two Mac's... do I really need to buy two licenses??? Or can I buy one and install on both machines.

I've always interpreted licensing as applying to one human - one copy and not one computer - one copy. When computers become legal entities that can own ( and buy! ) their own SW then it can be one computer - one license.

Also, does anyone know when new laptops will have panther installed when purchased?

Officially, you have to buy a license for each computer. Or get the family license for $199. It's pretty clear that you can't make copies of your software on multiple computers; at least that's what the law says.

You can think up a lot of silly scenarios otherwise, like what do you do when your friends come over? Do you have to pay a separate usage fee? Or what do you do when you have multiple users using one computer?

[1adonis1]

No way should you be forced to by another license. If i were you, i'd just load the one copy on both computers.
Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
Nope. When you buy a Mac OS X license, you're buying the right to use the software on a single computer. If you have two computers, you should buy two licenses. Actually, if you have two, you should buy the 5-user pack for $199.00. It's a bargain.

It's not like the software police is going to come knocking on the....**knock knock**

[G5trinity]

I have noticed lock ups and some laging peformace on my G5 due to OS hick up. I expected that it was because 10.2.7 was a patch job until pather was released.

By the way I went from a G4 single 5oo mhz to my current dual G5. So the OS performace was cover up by the raw power of the hardware.

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
Nope. When you buy a Mac OS X license, you're buying the right to use the software on a single computer. If you have two computers, you should buy two licenses. Actually, if you have two, you should buy the 5-user pack for $199.00. It's a bargain.

When you buy a set of sheets and want to put them on a different bed in your house should you pay the company who made the sheets a "user fee" for "installing" them on another bed??? Do you get it? Does it seem silly now?

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by MattG
Sorry guess I should have further explained -- it's a G4 Powermac. Looks like I don't apply.
Why don't you cancel your order (you can until it ships) and replace it. Or call the Apple rep and ask for the coupon (if she doesn't want to, cancel and reorder).

[jer2665]

Originally posted by pjhornak
When you buy a set of sheets and want to put them on a different bed in your house should you pay the company who made the sheets a "user fee" for "installing" them on another bed??? Do you get it? Does it seem silly now?


well, you can't use the same pair of sheets on two beds at the same time. I'm sure if you erase panther off of one computer, and install it on a different one there'd be no legal problem with that. but im sure no one here would do anything illegal like put it on multiple computers :rolleyes:

[jocknerd]

Can't wait to try it out!

[Romanesq]

After rounds of discussions with Apple OS Update and the reseller, turns out the reseller has a ton of class: JandR. They advised that if I refuse the delivery, I can just redo it in a day and have another 15 pb sent to me, thus qualifying for the panther update.

Now, when the UPS truck rings the bell... what should I do? What will I do?
I don't know myself. :confused:

[kcmac]

I'm fairly new to the Mac (having come in at 10.2.4). Is 10.3 worth rushing out and buying or should I wait for 10.3.1 for the bugs to be ironed out?


There are still issues in 10.2.xxxx. There will always be issues (bugs).

Make the move for speed alone! Onward and upward!:D

[richie]

I have to say I prefer the Panther Server box art to the ordinary Panther box art. It's got something classy about it.

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/

vs

http://www.apple.com/macosx/

:D Nevertheless, it's classy

[MattG]

Originally posted by NicoMan
Why don't you cancel your order (you can until it ships) and replace it. Or call the Apple rep and ask for the coupon (if she doesn't want to, cancel and reorder).

1. It's a CTO
2. I ordered the $99 Final Cut Express deal with it, and I already received that.

At this point, to cancel to order would just overcomplicate things.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by nagromme
Just for the record... these prices ARE upgrade prices. NOT "full" prices.

The "full" price is not listed because you can't buy a Mac with no OS... the OS is always included with each Mac. Thus, EVERY purchase of Panther is an upgrade.

So don't expect to see two prices, full vs. upgrade like you would with Photoshop or something.

The up-to-date "free" ($19) deal is only fair of course.
The absence of upgrade vs full labels means only one thing: they are all full. When you install the OS (it was like that for jag), the installation program doesn't give a damn about what's on your HD (as opposed to Win upgrades who check if you have a valid version on it).

Oh and BTW I believe that TerraSoft sells YellowDog Macs. Officially.

[FriarTuck]

$64.50 w/ govt employee discount.




Well I'm back in black!
Yes I'm back in black!

[1adonis1]

when you buy a CD from walmart....do you have to pay a fee to play it in the car, then a fee to play it on you compter...how about 1 more fee to play it on your home entertainment system.:)
Originally posted by jer2665
well, you can't use the same pair of sheets on two beds at the same time. I'm sure if you erase panther off of one computer, and install it on a different one there'd be no legal problem with that. but im sure no one here would do anything illegal like put it on multiple computers :rolleyes:

[mrdrumbum]

who cares if the panther is optimized for the g5... we albook owners shelled out just as much or even more than g5 buyers. this free upgrade should go to albook purchasers as well. this is total bull.

15 al powerbook = $2599
1.6 gig G5 = $1999

another $129 going to a company that's going to delay my order another month because they didn't except this many people to order panther at the same time. BULL!

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by jer2665
well, you can't use the same pair of sheets on two beds at the same time. I'm sure if you erase panther off of one computer, and install it on a different one there'd be no legal problem with that. but im sure no one here would do anything illegal like put it on multiple computers :rolleyes:

part of the probblem for people who are producing and selling in this day and age.. and why this board is going to have a lot of posts today...you could "copy" the set of sheets and put them on a different bed it's just easier and less costly to do that with software..:cool:

[jer2665]

Originally posted by 1adonis1
when you buy a CD from walmart....do you have to pay a fee to play it in the car, then a fee to play it on you compter...how about 1 more fee to play it on your home entertainment system.:)


if you wanted to play it on 2 or all 3 at the same time you would. well kind of. Cd copyright laws are a bit more lax than computer copyright laws i think, as you are allowed to make copies to back up for personal use, they dont' give you the option to do it with software. .

[chazmox]

Originally posted by jer2665
well, you can't use the same pair of sheets on two beds at the same time. I'm sure if you erase panther off of one computer, and install it on a different one there'd be no legal problem with that. but im sure no one here would do anything illegal like put it on multiple computers :rolleyes:

I really do not know about the legality of the current SW license as most SW manufacturers state it : one license - one machine.

Computers are not legal entities and cannot own anything under the law. However, people are legal entities. Therefore one license per person makes some sense. If you are the only one using the computers then you can install your licenses on as many machines as you want.

I understand that SW manufactures make you accept their license upon installation and could make you accept almost anything ( you must have a corncobb up your a** when using this SW... ) but I think many of the items could be challenged, esp. the one computer - one license.

[Romanesq]

After rounds of discussions with Apple OS Update and the reseller, turns out the reseller has a ton of class: JandR. They advised that if I refuse the delivery, I can just redo it in a day and have another 15 pb sent to me, thus qualifying for the panther update.

Now, when the UPS truck rings the bell... what should I do? What will I do?
I don't know myself. :confused:

[lord_flash]

As a new owner of a 15" Alu PowerBook, then I should say I wholehearteldy (and selfishly) agree with everyone who feels unfairly treated about the G5 thing. It goes against the whole 'year of laptop' thing of notebooks being just as important, yaddy, yaddy...

Still, yes, fair enough, it wasn't like I didn't know it was coming. And, dare I say it, what am I missing out on? (I'm certainly not going to pay full price to upgrade for a sprinkling of features that Windows had already and I nevre used nefore switching).

Why does Mac OS get updated so often? Apple seem to consider it a selling point that this is "the fourth major relase in just three years" - to me that means they're just helping themselves to £100 from loyal users every 35/40 weeks. Without meaning to start a fight, does anyone else think this is a bit rich?

[MadMan]

Panther is a very worthy upgrade ;)

Once the 24th rolls around and people get their hands on it, I think MOST everyone will be impressed with it ;);)

:cool:

MM

[MightyB]

Is it possible to put a "cost" on each unit???? I know it is hard on software with all the research and development costs....(actuall production is probably a few bucks a disc).....

Just a curious random question.....

[jer2665]

Originally posted by chazmox
I really do not know about the legality of the current SW license as most SW manufacturers state it : one license - one machine.

Computers are not legal entities and cannot own anything under the law. However, people are legal entities. Therefore one license per person makes some sense. If you are the only one using the computers then you can install your licenses on as many machines as you want.

I understand that SW manufactures make you accept their license upon installation and could make you accept almost anything ( you must have a corncobb up your a** when using this SW... ) but I think many of the items could be challenged, esp. the one computer - one license.

i whole heartedly agree with you, lets just say if i didn't get panther for free (mac os up to date thing) i sure wouldn't be buying one copy for that and one copy for the ibook, i was just playing devils advocate. i agree with the legal entity, i feel it should be "on any of your own personal computers, as long as it is for your use"

[ryan]

Originally posted by pjhornak
When you buy a set of sheets and want to put them on a different bed in your house should you pay the company who made the sheets a "user fee" for "installing" them on another bed??? Do you get it? Does it seem silly now? This is THE most asinine argument for software piracy I've ever read.

[ppk]

I ordered a new PB from the on line store on September 16 (got it Spetember 23) and followed the link from the up to date page that allowed me to log in and get the update for $19.95 + shipping and tax ($25.39 total). Anyone who bought around that time may want to try this before shelling out big bucks.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Romanesq
After rounds of discussions with Apple OS Update and the reseller, turns out the reseller has a ton of class: JandR. They advised that if I refuse the delivery, I can just redo it in a day and have another 15 pb sent to me, thus qualifying for the panther update.

Now, when the UPS truck rings the bell... what should I do? What will I do?
I don't know myself. :confused:
Hide.

[iHack]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
Honestly I think this sucks. The up-to-date program should be the same across the board. Why should a user who purchased a G5 receive an upgrade when a user who purchased a new PowerBook does not?

Of course I knew when I purchased that Panther was coming, and I expected to pay for the upgrade, and if the upgrade program were equal for everyone I probably wouldn't be upset.

That's probably because for the G5, 10.2.7 is a subpar OS. I gather it is more or or less a hack to get the G5's going, with panther being the proper OS. I think it's good of Apple to recognise this and provide the upgrade path.

M.

[bpd115]

Well I am fairly new to the Mac scene (Owned since Feb.) and this will be my first OS upgrade. Our Mac Family has grown to my Feb 02 1Ghz iMac, my fathers Sept '02 1.25 Ghz iMac, my Sisters 1Ghz eMac and my new 12inch 1Ghz Powerbook. We are getting the 5 user license for 199. But my question is does Mac OS use a serial number or anything during the install like Windows? Or is it basically a good faith system?

:confused:

[ryan]

Originally posted by jer2665
if you wanted to play it on 2 or all 3 at the same time you would. well kind of. Cd copyright laws are a bit more lax than computer copyright laws i think, as you are allowed to make copies to back up for personal use, they dont' give you the option to do it with software. . The thing about music CDs is that an individual can't practically use two at the same time. With computers and software, using two copies of an application (and particularly an OS) at the same time is very common and easy to use.

[ryan]

Originally posted by bpd115
Well I am fairly new to the Mac scene (Owned since Feb.) and this will be my first OS upgrade. Our Mac Family has grown to my Feb 02 1Ghz iMac, my fathers Sept '02 1.25 Ghz iMac, my Sisters 1Ghz eMac and my new 12inch 1Ghz Powerbook. We are getting the 5 user license for 199. But my question is does Mac OS use a serial number or anything during the install like Windows? Or is it basically a good faith system?

:confused: Good faith.

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by ryan
This is THE most asinine argument for software piracy I've ever read.

thank you....sorry I will try and come up with a simpler one you might understand....two, two of steve and bill's children..ah ha ha ha ha ha...right the count from sesame street

[ryan]

Originally posted by lord_flash
As a new owner of a 15" Alu PowerBook, then I should say I wholehearteldy (and selfishly) agree with everyone who feels unfairly treated about the G5 thing. It goes against the whole 'year of laptop' thing of notebooks being just as important, yaddy, yaddy...

Still, yes, fair enough, it wasn't like I didn't know it was coming. And, dare I say it, what am I missing out on? (I'm certainly not going to pay full price to upgrade for a sprinkling of features that Windows had already and I nevre used nefore switching).

Why does Mac OS get updated so often? Apple seem to consider it a selling point that this is "the fourth major relase in just three years" - to me that means they're just helping themselves to £100 from loyal users every 35/40 weeks. Without meaning to start a fight, does anyone else think this is a bit rich? 10.1 was a free upgrade. Nobody forces you to upgrade. Would you rather Apple stop making their software better?

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by ryan
This is THE most asinine argument for software piracy I've ever read.
I'll have to agree on that. Man we hear some funky justifications for software piracy!

[jxyama]

all the posts about legality, blah blah about running panther on more than one computer is moot. it's a license you agree to when install it. in the license, it says you agree to run it on only one computer per copy purchased. period. you agree to abide by it, so you can't really argue around it on moral or legal grounds. you aren't supposed to install and use it if you don't agree with it.

that said, apple runs on good faith. if you wanted to, you will have no problem installing a single purchased copy of panther on two computers and using them both at the same time.

just know that what you are doing is illegal and don't try to justify it on any grounds... it's the way software industy works right now and if you don't like it, you should complain to the companies...

[q1232]

Originally posted by ppk
I ordered a new PB from the on line store on September 16 (got it Spetember 23) and followed the link from the up to date page that allowed me to log in and get the update for $19.95 + shipping and tax ($25.39 total). Anyone who bought around that time may want to try this before shelling out big bucks.

I did this as well and received my web order confirmation and delivery date of 10/24 :D

[Powerbook G5]

Originally posted by ppk
I ordered a new PB from the on line store on September 16 (got it Spetember 23) and followed the link from the up to date page that allowed me to log in and get the update for $19.95 + shipping and tax ($25.39 total). Anyone who bought around that time may want to try this before shelling out big bucks.

It doesn't accept my serial number, maybe you just got real lucky?

[sigamy]

I just took a very quick look at the Panther pages and I don't see Apple saying anything about improved performance. Is there anything on Apple.com about performance gains in Panther?

We've heard from developers who now say that Panter's UI is even faster than OS 9...It would be great to see some real stats and/or claims from Apple.

I'm just wondering what type of performance gains I'll see on a 1Ghz iMac? Any clues?

Thanks,
Brian

[jer2665]

Originally posted by jxyama
all the posts about legality, blah blah about running panther on more than one computer is moot. it's a license you agree to when install it. in the license, it says you agree to run it on only one computer per copy purchased. period. you agree to abide by it, so you can't really argue around it on moral or legal grounds. you aren't supposed to install and use it if you don't agree with it.

that said, apple runs on good faith. if you wanted to, you will have no problem installing a single purchased copy of panther on two computers and using them both at the same time.

just know that what you are doing is illegal and don't try to justify it on any grounds... it's the way software industy works right now and if you don't like it, you should complain to the companies...


does it count if you just click yes really quick and don't read the license? just kidding.

[Tenacious B]

Is there any news of Apple making 10.3 free to teachers like with 10.2? I'd love to get my hands on a free copy.

[billyboy]

Take a valium them that feel Apple owe them a free OS upgrade.

If you just spent $000's on Macs, is another $129 really such a biggy for what is probably going to be the best value adding piece of software on earth.

When Panther is rocking I cant imagine getting too hung up about how relatively little I had to hand over for the pleasure of being at the cutting edge of OS technology for another year. And the money Apple get from me will hopefully ensure I can have the best OS next year and the next.....

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by pjhornak
When you buy a set of sheets and want to put them on a different bed in your house should you pay the company who made the sheets a "user fee" for "installing" them on another bed??? Do you get it? Does it seem silly now?

Last I checked, you can only "install" a set of sheets on one bed at a time. :D

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by ryan
This is THE most asinine argument for software piracy I've ever read.

right, you and the riaa call it piracy the rest of the free world calls it fair use... the way you capitialized THE to emphasize your point was brilliant BTW

[jxyama]

Originally posted by jer2665
does it count if you just click yes really quick and don't read the license? just kidding.

i've heard about the legality of "click yes" type of licenses. it's probably not enforceable and if you really wanted, you could go to court and argue that it's not really an agreement if you are just clicking with a mouse. (i've read on /. a guy trying to get his windows license money back on a dell he purchased to run linux. he got caught in a mess of opening a cd package, license agreement, blah blah and had to go to a small claims court to get the money...)

all i'm saying is that there's not much room for legal or moral discussion about the validity of running a copy on two machines. it's something you agree to. whether such a policy is good or not can be debated, but if you run a copy on two machines, there's no argument that you are doing something illegal.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by pjhornak
When you buy a set of sheets and want to put them on a different bed in your house should you pay the company who made the sheets a "user fee" for "installing" them on another bed??? Do you get it? Does it seem silly now?

So, you're saying Panther is "sheet"?

Dat's some good sheet, man...

:D

[the future]

Originally posted by lord_flash
And, dare I say it, what am I missing out on? (I'm certainly not going to pay full price to upgrade for a sprinkling of features that Windows had already and I nevre used nefore switching).

Why does Mac OS get updated so often? Apple seem to consider it a selling point that this is "the fourth major relase in just three years"

You think Windows – *any* Windows – already has all the features Panther has? You'll be lucky if Longhorn – whenever *that* will come out, last estimation: 2005 – will do a half-clever job ripping off OS X (which will have moved on by then, of course). Just the most obvious example. Exposé. Where is it in Windows? Nowhere.

And yes, updating the OS regularly *is* a selling point – if you add tons of new and exciting features and make it a lot faster every time. As "small" Windows updates are usually busy enough trying to fix security issues # 327.345-329.763, you certainly wouldn't want to pay for them.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by jxyama
all the posts about legality, blah blah about running panther on more than one computer is moot. it's a license you agree to when install it. in the license, it says you agree to run it on only one computer per copy purchased. period. you agree to abide by it, so you can't really argue around it on moral or legal grounds. you aren't supposed to install and use it if you don't agree with it.

that said, apple runs on good faith. if you wanted to, you will have no problem installing a single purchased copy of panther on two computers and using them both at the same time.

just know that what you are doing is illegal and don't try to justify it on any grounds... it's the way software industy works right now and if you don't like it, you should complain to the companies...

Don't complain! File a class action challenging the license agreement!!!

Originally posted by ryan

This is THE most asinine argument for software piracy I've ever read

Wait... installing the same SW on two computers that YOU own is being a pirate??? Wow, now that's a strained metaphor...

"ARRGGHH mateys... lets loot our own doobloons ( sp! ) from ourselves and give it too ourselves... I feelin' especially lucky today!"

You could argue that it was a violation of the SW agreement, but "piracy" is extreme... uh, oh... I have my CD in my CD player and a copy of that same song on my computers and my iPod... I really a rockin pirate!!!!

[q1232]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
It doesn't accept my serial number, maybe you just got real lucky?

To: Powerbook G5
If you remove the " - " from the s/n it will accept it. Good luck.

[Java]

Anyone know about an evening party at the Apple Stores?

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by bankshot
While $258 (2 machines) is small peanuts for a large company to pay, I may have trouble convincing them to buy it.

Don't they have a 5 user license pack for about $200? Saves a little if it works in a work environment... not sure if it's intended for home use only or not.

[Golem]

Originally posted by lord_flash

Why does Mac OS get updated so often? Apple seem to consider it a selling point that this is "the fourth major relase in just three years" - to me that means they're just helping themselves to £100 from loyal users every 35/40 weeks. Without meaning to start a fight, does anyone else think this is a bit rich?

4 in 3 years just means the first 1 doesnt get counted. So it averages a year between releases and has been over a year since the last release,also 10.1 was a free upgrade. As for those who were unlucky to get their pbooks before the 7th at least you have yours. I like many Aussie's are still waiting for mine.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by pjhornak
right, you and the riaa call it piracy the rest of the free world calls it fair use... the way you capitialized THE to emphasize your point was brilliant BTW

nope. no fair use for software. it's a license you agree to.

with cds, it's interesting how things work in relation to copyright infringement.

take these two cases:

1) you make a copy of a cd you borrow from a friend for your personal use, you don't own the original cd.

2) you download songs via p2p from a cd you own to play on your ipod for your personal use.

did you know that 1) is legal but 2) is not?

when you make a copy of an original cd, regardless of who owns it, it's legal to use the copy for your own personal use.

downloadable file is a copy of the original cd and it is illegal for anyone but the original copier to use the file. if anyone other than the original cd copier uses the file, the original cd copier is no longer using the file for his own personal use and is violating the fair use principle. so even if you own the cd, you cannot download songs on it from someone else because the other person would then be no longer be using the files for his/her own personal use.

"fair use" is pretty hard to understand. just accept that it's just not legal to a copy of panther on two machines. that doesn't mean you can't do it but shouldn't try to justify it.

[cr2sh]

Originally posted by Java
Anyone know about an evening party at the Apple Stores?

Get there early, I remember when jaguar was released and I showed up a half hour early thinking I was especially nerdy... the line was 200feet deep. I didn't even get in the building.

[martijnvandijk]

...however, it hasn't been assembled or shipped nor have I been charged to my credit card yet.

Did I already puchase it then...? :confused:

I hope not, since then, I will get Panther for free!!!
Maybe someone has experience with this?

[sedarby]

Originally posted by jxyama
i've heard about the legality of "click yes" type of licenses. it's probably not enforceable and if you really wanted, you could go to court and argue that it's not really an agreement if you are just clicking with a mouse. (i've read on /. a guy trying to get his windows license money back on a dell he purchased to run linux. he got caught in a mess of opening a cd package, license agreement, blah blah and had to go to a small claims court to get the money...)

all i'm saying is that there's not much room for legal or moral discussion about the validity of running a copy on two machines. it's something you agree to. whether such a policy is good or not can be debated, but if you run a copy on two machines, there's no argument that you are doing something illegal.

Borland had an interesting take on the whole license agreement thing. They likened their software agreement to a book. You can have the software installed on as many computers as you like but like a book, it can only be used on one computer at a time. I believe this is more sane than the a copy for each computer approach.

[otter-boy]

Originally posted by pjhornak
right, you and the riaa call it piracy the rest of the free world calls it fair use

You can make a legal fair use copy of your software as a backup in case the original gets destroyed (both the physical disk and the program running on the computer). Then you can reinstall the program on the computer or install it on a new computer if you have uninstalled (or destroyed) the copy running on the first computer. In fact, you can make as many fair use backups as you want, but you cannot run copies on multiple machines.
You, as an individual, do not get to chose what is fair use and what is not. The American people, as a society and through our government, decide what fair use is.
When people run multiple copies of software off of one license, it drives up the cost for others.
At least if you're are using software illegally, don't post it on a discussion board. Someday, Apple might decide to prosecute, and its lawyers are going to go after people like you first because you sit around bragging about illegal actions.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by chazmox
I really do not know about the legality of the current SW license as most SW manufacturers state it : one license - one machine.


What if you installed Panther on an external drive and would boot off that drive for two or more machines?

:cool:

[plutnicki]

Why can't they just make one copy cost $129, and then add like $20 per licence? 5 licenses for $200 is a bargain, if you have 5 people.

Now, here's a question, if I buy the 5 licence family pack, and I get 5 people together to buy it, that's like $40 per person. Great right? But only one copy of the media. Can I then legally make 5 copies of the media (one per license, right?) and give one copy to each licensee?

That seems more reasonable. I've got two Macs, my father in law has 1, and a good friend I just convinced to switch has one. Legally, could I sell the 5th license to someone with a copied set of disks (for $40, not for $129...).

What rules go along with these multi-user packs?

Thanks...

...Jim

[ZildjianKX]

Perhaps this was asked, but I couldn't find it.

Does the up-to-date program give you Panther in a retail box, or do they just ship you CDs?

Or do they give you a new "restore" DVD with Panther on it instead of Jaguar?

Tx.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by jxyama
nope. no fair use for software. it's a license you agree to.

with cds, it's interesting how things work in relation to copyright infringement.

take these two cases:

1) you make a copy of a cd you borrow from a friend for your personal use, you don't own the original cd.

2) you download songs via p2p from a cd you own to play on your ipod for your personal use.

did you know that 1) is legal but 2) is not?

when you make a copy of an original cd, regardless of who owns it, it's legal to use the copy for your own personal use.

downloadable file is a copy of the original cd and it is illegal for anyone but the original copier to use the file. if anyone other than the original cd copier uses the file, the original cd copier is no longer using the file for his own personal use and is violating the fair use principle. so even if you own the cd, you cannot download songs on it from someone else because the other person would then be no longer be using the files for his/her own personal use.

"fair use" is pretty hard to understand. just accept that it's just not legal to a copy of panther on two machines. that doesn't mean you can't do it but shouldn't try to justify it.

I don't get your example. You say that #2 is for personal use and it is illegal. Yet your explanation talks about non-personal use. Please explain...

[MoparShaha]

I literally woke up less than 3 minutes ago, and I've already placed my order. Yes, I'm that excited!

[chazmox]

Ahhh! You edited!!! Now it makes more sense. Without the edit I was like "huh?"

[tny]

Originally posted by 1adonis1
when you buy a CD from walmart....do you have to pay a fee to play it in the car, then a fee to play it on you compter...how about 1 more fee to play it on your home entertainment system.:)
IANAL

The reason the license is only good for one computer is because it's, well, a license. It's not a criminal law issue, it is a contract issue: you are in effect buying a contract to use the OS on the computer, and that contract limits you to using it on one. Copyright law theoretically would allow you to delete Panther from one computer and install it on another, then delete it from that and install it on the first, etc., which would be the equivalent of playing a music CD on different CD players. But having the software running simultaneously on both isn't fair use, and so is not protected by law, and it is also a violation of the the license. If you don't like it, then take OS X off and put Darwin on. You won't get most of the benefits, and won't be able to run much of the software, but at least you won't feel cheated having to pay a licensing fee for each computer.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by MadMan
Panther is a very worthy upgrade ;)

Once the 24th rolls around and people get their hands on it, I think MOST everyone will be impressed with it ;);)

:cool:

MM

Not us beige G3 owners...

:(

Guess I gotta upgrade my machine!

:D

But used G4s are way too expensive...

:(

Guess I gotta sell a kidney!

:eek:

[arn]

Originally posted by jxyama
take these two cases:

1) you make a copy of a cd you borrow from a friend for your personal use, you don't own the original cd.

2) you download songs via p2p from a cd you own to play on your ipod for your personal use.

did you know that 1) is legal but 2) is not?


Um... I hate to help spin this thread off-topic. But I believe you are incorrect. I'm pretty sure #1 is also illegal.

arn

[SafariKC]

Figured i'd put a pointer to this thread in here seeing that some of you are in the same boat as i am.

Help Get Panther Up-To-Date for New Revision AiBook Buyers (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40958)

[jxyama]

if you make a copy from an original CD and use it for your own personal use, it's perfectly legal regardless of the origin of the CD. (yes, if you steal a CD from a store and make a copy of it, you are a thief but not a "pirate." :D )

mp3 (or otherwise) files on p2p is a copy from original CDs. let's say A rips a cd borrowed from B (which B owns) and C downloads it from A's computer. C also owns the CD.

since mp3 file is a copy of the original CD, A can use it for his own use, even if he doesn't own the CD. however, sharing it on p2p is not A's personal use. so A would be in violation of copyright if he puts the file on p2p. C is also violating the copyright by downloading A's file because it's a file intended for A's own personal use. this is regardless of C's ownership of the CD.

clearer?

arn - i am fairly certain i got this right. however, i'm now a lawyer so i can't be 100% certain. regardless, i'll stop discussing this further because it's off topic. I just get peeved when some people try to come up with justifications for running two instances of a single purchased software. that's all.

[ZildjianKX]

Hey cool, the up-to-date program won't recognize my G5's serial number, and the mail form PDF is down. Awesome :)

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by ryan
10.1 was a free upgrade. Nobody forces you to upgrade. Would you rather Apple stop making their software better?

10.1 was free because 10.0 was almost unusable...

[Mr. G4]

I ordered my 17" Alu last Saturday also.
I knew about the rumor of Oct 24.
I though that Apple gave a 30 day grace period.
I guessed I'm wrong.

BTW, I still haven't recieve the machine yet. :(

Originally posted by bankshot
I knew it! :mad:

Somehow I just knew that since we had to have our new PowerBooks this week at work, that Apple would wait us out by just a few days and then announce Panther with no free update for us! The machines haven't even arrived yet (were supposed to be here yesterday, what's up with that?), but since they were ordered last Friday, I'm sure they do not qualify. YOU SCREWED US OVER, APPLE!!!




Just kidding. :D

It's true about the new PowerBooks, but I was fully aware of what would likely happen when we finally had to order last week. It was really too bad, but I don't fault Apple. Anyone who ordered before today expecting a free upgrade was, quite frankly, a bit foolish. Glad it worked out for you G5 people... :)

While $258 (2 machines) is small peanuts for a large company to pay, I may have trouble convincing them to buy it. Just getting some PowerBooks approved in a workplace where Mac and Apple are almost dirty words (we removed those two words from all the purchase paperwork just to be sure -- just PowerBook G4, Service Protection Plan, Keyboard, etc... heh) was a major accomplishment. To turn around so soon and tell them, by the way, we need this other software we didn't tell you about last week may piss some people off. I don't know... If it were free, that'd make it a whole lot easier! :p

That said, I already pre-ordered for home, $69 educational discount, baby! Woohoo! :cool:

[tny]

Originally posted by pjhornak
right, you and the riaa call it piracy the rest of the free world calls it fair use... the way you capitialized THE to emphasize your point was brilliant BTW

1. Apple is not, so far as I know, a member of the RIAA.

2. What you're talking about isn't fair use at all. If the OS ran off uncopyable fixed media, rather than the harddrive, you'd have an argument. If the same person listening to the same song at the same time from two different sources were any different to listening to the song from one source, you might have a useful analogy between the Apple license and the RIAA's anti-"piracy" crusade.

IANAL

[Stella]

A lot of new software will not run on any thing below 10.3, just like a lot of software requires 10.2

However, progression is progression.

Originally posted by ryan
10.1 was a free upgrade. Nobody forces you to upgrade. Would you rather Apple stop making their software better?

[chazmox]

Originally posted by tny
IANAL

The reason the license is only good for one computer is because it's, well, a license. It's not a criminal law issue, it is a contract issue: you are in effect buying a contract to use the OS on the computer, and that contract limits you to using it on one. Copyright law theoretically would allow you to delete Panther from one computer and install it on another, then delete it from that and install it on the first, etc., which would be the equivalent of playing a music CD on different CD players. But having the software running simultaneously on both isn't fair use, and so is not protected by law, and it is also a violation of the the license. If you don't like it, then take OS X off and put Darwin on. You won't get most of the benefits, and won't be able to run much of the software, but at least you won't feel cheated having to pay a licensing fee for each computer.

I believe you are absolutely correct. I just find it egregious that one person has too buy multiple licenses for thier own personal use.

The Boland model mentioned above makes more "common" sense to me as a use/license model.

[pyewacket]

My Alu book hasn't even arrived yet and Apple is already trying to get more money out of me. I'm very disappointed in Apple. This is no way to treat your customers.

[Stella]

Just consider it a yearly "Apple Tax"

:)
Originally posted by pyewacket
My Alu book hasn't even arrived yet and Apple is already trying to get more money out of me. I'm very disappointed in Apple. This is no way to treat your customers.

[radhak]

I bought my iMac on Sep 26th from MacZone, and received 3 Green coupons marked 'OS X Upgrade'. (Don't remember if it mentions the version number too). So can I use one of these coupons to get Panther? Heck, I am willing to throw in all three coupons if that helps me save $129 ;)

[matthew24]

Ordered a BTO 15" Powerbook by phone last monday, so I hope I will be lucky, otherwise Apple will be lucky, ain't too bad either.:rolleyes:

[BOOMBA]

Originally posted by iwantanewmac
I bought a new mac 8 days ago and now I have to pay again $149 for an upgrade...bah..................

Too bad, but no one should feel sorry for you or anyone else here.

I think no one that posts to this forum was taken unawares. we all follow the rumor sites, and we all knew this was coming within the month. Apple always charges $129.oo for updates.

I think we should stop crying that we have to pay for it, and start getting excited about the features/speed improvements it promises to deliver.

[robbieduncan]

Originally posted by radhak
I bought my iMac on Sep 26th from MacZone, and received 3 Green coupons marked 'OS X Upgrade'. (Don't remember if it mentions the version number too). So can I use one of these coupons to get Panther? Heck, I am willing to throw in all three coupons if that helps me save $129 ;)

No!

Only G5 Owners or people who buy a Mac from today on get Panther for shipping and handling. It's that simple. The 3 coupons do not entitle you to Panther (or any other non-free upgrade) for free. I believe that in the past they enabled you to get CDs of things like 10.x.y if you bought 10.x

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by iwantanewmac
I bought a new mac 8 days ago and now I have to pay again $149 for an upgrade...bah..................

yeah... I bought one 6 days ago, and I have to pay for a full upgrade... this is total ************.

and btw, I resent being treated like a second class citizen just because I didn't buy a G5. What, a powerbook (or imac or ibook for that matter) doesn't make me a valuable enough customer?? :mad:

Too bad, but no one should feel sorry for you or anyone else here.

I think no one that posts to this forum was taken unawares. we all follow the rumor sites, and we all knew this was coming within the month. Apple always charges $129.oo for updates.

I think we should stop crying that we have to pay for it, and start getting excited about the features/speed improvements it promises to deliver.

I disagree that we weren't taken unawares. Rumors sites were predicting that upgrades would be given to buyers within a month of the annoucement. I certainly did not expect to have to pay full price when I bought a computer *one week* before "the announcement." It will certainly make me think twice about buying a mac anytime near an OS update in the future.

[1adonis1]

Nah i was trying to be funny, i only own 1 mac, and will buy the Panther after about 2 weeks after it's released. Come christmas, i will purchase a new PowerBook, and it will come loaded with Panter:)
Originally posted by tny
IANAL

The reason the license is only good for one computer is because it's, well, a license. It's not a criminal law issue, it is a contract issue: you are in effect buying a contract to use the OS on the computer, and that contract limits you to using it on one. Copyright law theoretically would allow you to delete Panther from one computer and install it on another, then delete it from that and install it on the first, etc., which would be the equivalent of playing a music CD on different CD players. But having the software running simultaneously on both isn't fair use, and so is not protected by law, and it is also a violation of the the license. If you don't like it, then take OS X off and put Darwin on. You won't get most of the benefits, and won't be able to run much of the software, but at least you won't feel cheated having to pay a licensing fee for each computer.

[robbieduncan]

Originally posted by plutnicki
Why can't they just make one copy cost $129, and then add like $20 per licence? 5 licenses for $200 is a bargain, if you have 5 people.

Now, here's a question, if I buy the 5 licence family pack, and I get 5 people together to buy it, that's like $40 per person. Great right? But only one copy of the media. Can I then legally make 5 copies of the media (one per license, right?) and give one copy to each licensee?

That seems more reasonable. I've got two Macs, my father in law has 1, and a good friend I just convinced to switch has one. Legally, could I sell the 5th license to someone with a copied set of disks (for $40, not for $129...).

What rules go along with these multi-user packs?

Thanks...

...Jim

The rules were on the Apple website somewhere when this was available for Jaguar. It is for home use only. You all have to live in the same building. It does not cover college dorms or similar situations. So no you cannot get 4 friends together to do this.

[cr2sh]

I doubt you can do this, but is it possible to get a student discount on the family pack? Say my Dad was a teacher could he buy it for the rest of the family at a discount rate? I can't find it in the apple store.. anyone? thanks!

[robbieduncan]

Originally posted by robbieduncan
The rules were on the Apple website somewhere when this was available for Jaguar. It is for home use only. You all have to live in the same building. It does not cover college dorms or similar situations. So no you cannot get 4 friends together to do this.

In fact here is the exact text:


* Family Pack Software License Agreement allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on up to a maximum of five (5) Apple-labeled computers at a time as long as those computers are located in the same household and used by persons who occupy that same household. By "household" we mean a person or persons sharing the same housing unit such as a home, apartment, mobile home or condominium. This license does not extend to students who reside at a separate on-campus location or to business or commercial users.

Taken from the AppleStore page for the Family Pack (not posting link as it will time out).

[tny]

Originally posted by jxyama
if you make a copy from an original CD and use it for your own personal use, it's perfectly legal regardless of the origin of the CD. (yes, if you steal a CD from a store and make a copy of it, you are a thief but not a "pirate." :D )


IANAL

The analogy is to photocopying a book. It is legal for a scholar to photocopy a book in a library so he can bring the copy home to consult for his own personal use without preventing others from using the library copy. In this instance, the copying is just an extension of borrowing. However, the scholar can't sell the photocopy to someone else, and the copy machine's owners can't charge more than the normal photocopying price. The particular branch of fair use jxyama is talking about is an extension of this situation; the law doesn't to my knowledge distinguish between the purposes of the fair use. But it is possible that the exact situation described by jxyama would not be considered fair use by a court.

There are other kinds of fair use as well, for instance, quotation in a review, library borrowing, etc., all of which are adaptable to the medium, the content, and the situation. The law doesn't spell out exactly what fair use is; that's something that depends upon precedent and common law, and interpretation of the law's intent. That's part of why limits are so easily placed on fair use: because one can argue over what fair use means. But there are certain things which it is clear are not matters of fair use: swapping files over p2p, for instance, clearly isn't fair use (I suspect the MPAA may be losing more from targeting file sharing than they are gaining in their mythical "lost revenues" recovered from suing over file sharing; the fact is that most adults who want an album buy the CD, and adult file sharers rarely trust someone else to rip music they want to listen to long-term; rather they will download one or two songs from a bad album, download songs that aren't easily available, like concert bootlegs, or download for sampling purposes before buying the CD; file sharers who don't buy CDs tend to be kids who wouldn't buy the CD anyway because they don't have the spare cash.), nor is using the same operating system media to load an OS on two computers (which will likely be used simultaneously at times) without a license that explicitly allows that.

These weren't big problems in the days of analog media, because analog copies degrade so quickly. It's only with digital media and digital copies (in which the second generation - not the second encoding, but the second copying of the file - is theory as good as the first generation) that the issue has exploded. But the fact is that someone buying a CD does get a better copy than one would get from p2p, so the model should still work.

[cr2sh]

Originally posted by tny
The analogy is to photocopying a book.

It's almost worth $129 to me for you guys to stop debating this nonsense. Let's just rejoice in warm, purple, panther goodness.

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by tny
1. Apple is not, so far as I know, a member of the RIAA.

2. What you're talking about isn't fair use at all. If the OS ran off uncopyable fixed media, rather than the harddrive, you'd have an argument. If the same person listening to the same song at the same time from two different sources were any different to listening to the song from one source, you might have a useful analogy between the Apple license and the RIAA's anti-"piracy" crusade. As it is, you're just blowing smoke.

IANAL

Apple??? please read the quote again....where do you see Apple..... I'll be blowing smoke in Costa Rica for the next two weeks....I'll make sure I pay a fee to the guy who shaped my board when I let someone else ride a wave with it...brah you've been blowing some smoke... and from what I can see on the board sharing it with others

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by cr2sh
It's almost worth $129 to me for you guys to stop debating this nonsense. Let's just rejoice in warm, purple, panther goodness.

Or $199 for the One Big Happy Family Pack...

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by cr2sh
It's almost worth $129 to me for you guys to stop debating this nonsense. Let's just rejoice in warm, purple, panther goodness.

I'm down for that ... Aloha...

[OSXpert]

I got my G5 on Sept 2nd, which is all well and good, but im wondering if i miss out on the festivities at the apple store because i have to get the upgrade online? can i bring my coupons or serial number to the apple store on the 24th or am i resigned to simply wait for it to ship?

[Teronke]

Charging for full price OS 10.3 for recent G4 purchasers is ridiculous.

It's absolutely unfair considering that Apple kept completely quiet as to the timing for updated iMacs and Powerbooks just so they could sell a few more of the old units ...

yet when they wanted publicity they announced 10.3 months before it was ready and now expect people who purchased G4s after the launch in August to fork out full price

To be fair the special upgrade price should be extended to all purchasers who purchased after 10.3 was announced in August.

This is the sort of thing really rubs customers up the wrong way. Doubly so since this coming so soon after the 10.2.8 fiasco.

Not happy Apple!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frisco]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
Last I checked, you can only "install" a set of sheets on one bed at a time. :D

I have 2 small beds in my house. What I do is buy King Size sheets then cut them in half. It fits my 2 small beds perfectly!

Just kidding--that was stupid wasn't it? I am such a geek-sorry.

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by tny
1. Apple is not, so far as I know, a member of the RIAA.

2. What you're talking about isn't fair use at all. If the OS ran off uncopyable fixed media, rather than the harddrive, you'd have an argument. If the same person listening to the same song at the same time from two different sources were any different to listening to the song from one source, you might have a useful analogy between the Apple license and the RIAA's anti-"piracy" crusade.

IANAL


uncopyable?!?!?...please define and show example... good luck... while you are at it please show us the loch ness monster...

[nalfein]

Originally posted by ppk
I ordered a new PB from the on line store on September 16 (got it Spetember 23) and followed the link from the up to date page that allowed me to log in and get the update for $19.95 + shipping and tax ($25.39 total). Anyone who bought around that time may want to try this before shelling out big bucks.

Same thing for me ...

order sept. 18 and receive sept 29 and my serial work great ... i try to buy it. will see what's happen

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by Frisco
I have 2 small beds in my house. What I do is buy King Size sheets then cut them in half. It fits my 2 small beds perfectly!

Just kidding--that was stupid wasn't it? I am such a geek-sorry.

check the post about copying sheets

[BOOMBA]

Originally posted by cr2sh
It's almost worth $129 to me for you guys to stop debating this nonsense. Let's just rejoice in warm, purple, panther goodness.

Agreed.

Why not just save 2 days pay from your job working at McDonald's, and quit whining.

$129 isn't so much.

[jxyama]

does anyone remember what the edu. price for jaguar was? was it same as panther, $69?

u of mich. sells jaguar for $72. i had assumed a large univ. like michigan would get further additional discount but if such is not the case, there's no reason for me to wait until panther hits u of mich. stores. i should just order panther online via edu. discount from apple.com.

i'm pretty excited about panther. expose and fast user switching are two of the most eye catching features i welcome!

to any developers with a copy of panther: is the UI really that much faster? as fast as OS 9? that would be amazing - jaguar is great already and any additional snappiness would make panther a no-brainer greatest/easiest/most functional OS available.

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by Frisco
I have 2 small beds in my house. What I do is buy King Size sheets then cut them in half. It fits my 2 small beds perfectly!

Just kidding--that was stupid wasn't it? I am such a geek-sorry.

I think the humor was much-needed :D

[bankshot]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
I disagree that we weren't taken unawares. Rumors sites were predicting that upgrades would be given to buyers within a month of the annoucement. I certainly did not expect to have to pay full price when I bought a computer *one week* before "the announcement." It will certainly make me think twice about buying a mac anytime near an OS update in the future.

Sorry to hear you feel that way. From my recollection, none of the reputable rumor sites said anything about 30 days being the cutoff. It was always foolishly optimistic posts in the forums here and elsewhere. I tried to respond several times telling people that there is NO precedent for this, and therefore NO reason to believe it would be true. I said each time that to buy before Apple's announcement and expect a free upgrade would be foolish. I used last year's case with Jaguar (all purchases AFTER the announcement were eligible, not 30 days) as precedent.

Problem was, nobody really listened. In each thread I posted this, I don't think I got a single response, and plenty more people kept excitedly posting 30 days. If you believed this and bought recently expecting the free upgrade, I feel no sympathy. Never, ever make assumptions about purchasing decisions based on rumor sites, and especially based on what excited fans say in the forums!

I didn't want to be raining on everyone's parade, so I never pushed the issue further, but guess what? I was right. :p I'm disappointed too (see my earlier post in this discussion) but I fully expected this outcome. Too bad, life goes on, I'll gladly pay the price that Apple has set because it's worth it to me. If this effort (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40958) works out, even better. But I'm not counting on it.

16 days, 11 hours, 10 minutes. Bring it on! :D

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by pjhornak
When you buy a set of sheets and want to put them on a different bed in your house should you pay the company who made the sheets a "user fee" for "installing" them on another bed??? Do you get it? Does it seem silly now?

Interesting thing about sheets. You can only use them on one bed at a time.

[iJon]

well what do you know. i predicted this back in the summer time, and some people always bashing me saying i have no proof that they will do this. just like jaguar, they did the same thing. good news that we finally got a date, and its good that g5 users get it, but what sucks about that is that you have to order it, you cant go buy it that night. hopefully apple will make good on shipping.

iJon

[radhak]

Originally posted by robbieduncan
No!

Only G5 Owners or people who buy a Mac from today on get Panther for shipping and handling. It's that simple. The 3 coupons do not entitle you to Panther (or any other non-free upgrade) for free. I believe that in the past they enabled you to get CDs of things like 10.x.y if you bought 10.x

ie, pretty much useless, eh? Seeing that now Apple would not be coming out with 10.2.9 ...? come to think of it, even 10.2.8 was available online, and i did not need to use the coupon! so the coupons proved to be nothing more than green herring ;)

[jxyama]

i have the first gen. 12" PB so i don't have much of a stake, but i agree with some of you guys that apple probably could have afforded to give recent PB purchasers the free upgrade. it's only been a month or even longer... i kind of understand the deal with g5, but still, it's kind of a shame. bad timing...

i guess apple couldn't really announce PB in early sept. and then say panther would be out late Oct. that would seriously damage the PB sales. they must have weighed that damage against lost revenue from pissed off recent PB purchasers... ("we got their money already so what are they gonna do?")

on the other hand, it's pretty glorious to see the apple.com site with Panther, New PB, New iPod, better iMac and G5, isn't it? much more exciting than some of those spaces being occupied by Adobe software update, just to name an example... :)

[bankshot]

Originally posted by Teronke
It's absolutely unfair considering that Apple kept completely quiet as to the timing for updated iMacs and Powerbooks just so they could sell a few more of the old units ...

Yes, how dare they try to sell perfectly good hardware that was already produced! They should eat the cost for the good of humanity! :mad:

yet when they wanted publicity they announced 10.3 months before it was ready and now expect people who purchased G4s after the launch in August to fork out full price

To be fair the special upgrade price should be extended to all purchasers who purchased after 10.3 was announced in August.

:confused: Not sure what you've been smoking here. Panther was announced publically in October. Uhh, today. It was previewed to developers in June, but with no release date other than a vague "before the end of the year." Same as last year with Jaguar - previewed to developers in May with no release date, announced publically in July with a release date and up-to-date policy.

This is the sort of thing really rubs customers up the wrong way. Doubly so since this coming so soon after the 10.2.8 fiasco.

Yeah, I hate it when I don't get free stuff that was never promised. Boycott all companies that don't give out free stuff! :rolleyes:

[synergy]

Originally posted by pjhornak
uncopyable?!?!?...please define and show example... good luck... while you are at it please show us the loch ness monster...

Dude how old are you?

You have two replies to the same message in different posts.
You attack someone personally when they are merely stating the facts as they exist at this point in time.

If you are going to make an argument please try and make it logical rather than suggesting someone prove the loch ness monster.

[otter-boy]

Originally posted by Teronke
Charging for full price OS 10.3 for recent G4 purchasers is ridiculous.

It's absolutely unfair considering that. . . when they wanted publicity they announced 10.3 months before it was ready and now expect people who purchased G4s after the launch in August to fork out full price
. . .
Not happy Apple!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did the computer say it came with 10.3--no. Get over it.
If I buy a 2003 Dodge Viper with a 400 hp engine, knowing that they will upgrade the car to a 2004 Viper with a 500 hp engine sometime in the fall, I can't expect them to give me a free upgrade (either to the 2004 or just a bump the hp).

Like everybody keeps saying "we just assumed that we'd get the upgrade." What the **** makes you think that your *assumption* should compel Apple to do anything.
Also, some of you relied on posts "there were rumors going around. . ."
Listen to yourselves, they were rumors.

The people who bought G5s get free copies of the OS. Is it unfair, maybe, but it's a gift to them, not a jab at you.
I say, congratulations to all of you G5 owners who are getting the free upgrade--I hope you enjoy it. And I hope I enjoy 10.3 too when I buy my new mac.

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by nalfein
Same thing for me ...

order sept. 18 and receive sept 29 and my serial work great ... i try to buy it. will see what's happen

Wow, I thought the $19.99 was the shipping charge... so they charge you shipping on top of that?

[nalfein]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Wow, I thought the $19.99 was the shipping charge... so they charge you shipping on top of that?


yes they are ... the 20$ is on approximate price for DVD + BOOK + BOX the shipping is 4$ (about 6$ CDN). the final price is 36CDN about 24USD.

Good luck to all new PB owner ... i just got my order confirmation

[Chmeeee]

Does anyone know if you can get the educational discount at the Apple Store? I would like to go to the event at the Connecticut store, but its not worth the drive if I can't get it for $69.

[synergy]

Originally posted by Chmeeee
Does anyone know if you can get the educational discount at the Apple Store? I would like to go to the event at the Connecticut store, but its not worth the drive if I can't get it for $69.

Yes you should be able to get the discount online at the apple store.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Interesting thing about sheets. You can only use them on one bed at a time.

Well you could make a case that you can only really use one operating system at a time. Even if you have two computers in front of you, your attention can only be on one at a time... Granted the time is shorter than in the sheet example but you really only have one conscious attention.

Yes, there could be some tasks that your waiting on one machine and then using the other and, therefore, using two OS copies at the same time, but those would most likely be associated with some other SW and not the OS...

Just a thought experiment - please don't argue back, just wanted to take another view on that argument.

[Powerbook G5]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Hey cool, the up-to-date program won't recognize my G5's serial number, and the mail form PDF is down. Awesome :)

Same with me, the serial is "invalid" and the PDF sheets don't work. Oh well...at least edu price is $69

[KevinM]

So when they say PM delivery on 24th, do we have to pay for next day shipping to get that? or are they just being super-nice to all the folks who order it early?

[1adonis1]

Yeah I think those who bought the new PB should get a free Panther upgrade, what makes the G5 people so special. I bought my mac in Janurary, so i'll be happy to pay the $69.00 charge. But if it's released on the 24th...it'll be on limewire on the 25th for all the people who got screwed.:0)

[jxyama]

Originally posted by synergy
Yes you should be able to get the discount online at the apple store.

i think chemee was talking about going to a retail store and getting a discount...

anyway, yes, you can. just bring your school ID and you should be able to order panther for $69 at any of the Apple retail stores. you'll be asked to fill out a form.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by 1adonis1
But if it's released on the 24th...it'll be on limewire on the 25th for all the people who got screwed.:0)

i think you were joking but i wouldn't go there...

[Chmeeee]

Originally posted by synergy
Yes you should be able to get the discount online at the apple store.

I meant the actual retail store where the event is taking place. That way I dont have to deal with slow or pricy shipping. I am assuming that free shipping will not get it to me on the release day.

[The Reaper]

people like you who pirate are the reason apple has to charge so much for their computers. if you like panther, buy it. if not, then don't use it - it's obviously not worth your money. if you're a student, you can afford it using the student discount. if you are not a student, yet you own a mac, then you should be able to afford the full price. stop crapping on about what's fair and what's not. it is fair that powerbook owners got left out - when you bought them, you KNEW that there was no guarantee that panther would be free. you bought a system that was running Jaguar, which was good enough for your money at the time. panther coming out now is just a bonus.

[tpjunkie]

Ordering now, with my student discount

[synergy]

Originally posted by Chmeeee
I meant the actual retail store where the event is taking place. That way I dont have to deal with slow or pricy shipping. I am assuming that free shipping will not get it to me on the release day.

My bad, not sure if you can.
But call them up and ask.

[j33pd0g]

Can't wait! Woo-hoo... 10.3 is gonna rock... on my test machine... and then hopefully it'll rock on my production machine. :)

[chickengrease16]

this rocks. now i'm trying to decide between preordering the educational-discounted panther and have it shipped to my apartment, or finding my way to the apple store in tampa, fl (nevermind the 200+ mile drive there...) to be there for the "big event" they say will take place. yeah, the preorder-it-to-my-apartment sounds better. but i'm still trying to justify the price... $69 for windows moving out of the way when you want them to and a new finder? i dont use mail or any of the other software that got updates really. but exposé and the new finder seem really great.

[jpmack]

Originally posted by themacolyte
The Apple Store for Education displayed a graphic of Panther at the top of the page with small blue type stating, "Order today for evening delivery on October 24th".

Is that right? Can they actually state 'evening delivery'? What shipping company is going to make those deliveries? Or do they really mean evening 'pick up' at your nearest Apple Store?

FedEx has a service called "Home Delivery" that delivers in the evening, when most people are at home!

[Inkmonkey]

Any Canuck students out there? Have you noticed if you are getting a discount on Panther? I'm showing $179.00 in the Canadian Apple Edu store which means no discount at all.

Also, can anyone tell me if you need to have Jaguar in order to install Panther? I'm still running 10.1.

And finally, does anyone know where butterflies go when it rains?

[beerguy]

Okay - I'm a happy guy. I entered my serial on the up to date page and it qualified me for an upgrade.

New Albook owners ought to give it a try.

[mkubal]

Originally posted by chickengrease16
this rocks. now i'm trying to decide between preordering the educational-discounted panther and have it shipped to my apartment, or finding my way to the apple store in tampa, fl (nevermind the 200+ mile drive there...) to be there for the "big event" they say will take place. yeah, the preorder-it-to-my-apartment sounds better. but i'm still trying to justify the price... $69 for windows moving out of the way when you want them to and a new finder? i dont use mail or any of the other software that got updates really. but exposé and the new finder seem really great.

I think the one here in Orlando would be a bit closer to you. But you should be able to order it in the FSU compter store with the edu discount. You might have to reserve a copy though. That's what I'll end up doing here at UCF.

Matt

[Col127]

inkmonkey,

i noticed the same thing about the apple canada store. give em some time, they normally don't update the prices as fast as the US store :P

but it'll be there eventually. no one i'm shelling out $179 CDN when i'm a student.. lol :P plus the fact that i just purchased a new 12" on the 16th of sept and hope that i can somehow get it cheaper.. :)

with the new albook owners somehow qualifying for the up-to-date program.. i'm wondering why my serial number doesn't work? it basically can't find my system in the database or whatever..

[.a]

butterflies go out of the way of panthers (have a look at msn:)

for a lot of mac users with older machines, the speed acceleration of panther willbe like buying an processorupgrade!

this will help - in spring 2004 i'll get a new mac, so long panther will run my g4 dual 450 with 2gb ram and 500 gb storage.

i am ver excited!!!
.a

[jcshas]

Let's see..."Family 5-pack" for $199? Divide that by 5 and that's $39.80 for each household Mac user--Maybe I can convince my family to move in with me, and make the switch! On a second thought, think I'll stick with the $129 single license.

[tny]

Originally posted by pjhornak
uncopyable?!?!?...please define and show example... good luck... while you are at it please show us the loch ness monster...

My comment was a condition contrary to fact: it would be meaningless if uncopyable media were possible.

[jsjr]

Apple really suck this time!!!

I bought my AI 17" Powerbook when it was released last month... I received my machine on September 22 and now Apple says "only computers purchased on or after October 8th 2003 are qualified!" Come on Apple, the machine is less than a month old!

That's is b******t!

If someone out there who's in the same situation and thing we can do something about it, please let me know, I am on it!

[tny]

Originally posted by chazmox
Well you could make a case that you can only really use one operating system at a time. Even if you have two computers in front of you, your attention can only be on one at a time... Granted the time is shorter than in the sheet example but you really only have one conscious attention.

Yes, there could be some tasks that your waiting on one machine and then using the other and, therefore, using two OS copies at the same time, but those would most likely be associated with some other SW and not the OS...

Just a thought experiment - please don't argue back, just wanted to take another view on that argument.

That argument falls down when you have, for instance, a rendering project running on one machine while you're using another to do some editing.

[Winston Smith]

Just rang Apple to chase my new PB (after 5 e-mails with different expected ship dates in as many days)

They say it will leave Taiwan at the end of this week or the beginning of next and ship with Panther!!!

WoooHoooooo

Probably means it won't actually reach me until 24/10 but maybe I'll get a new Cat early!!!

[gopher]

As I've said before, the upgrade price most likely does not include:

Archive and Install feature (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107120) which is a godsend for troubleshooting preference issues.

Developer Tools.

So whether you qualify for upgrade price or not, be aware, that the upgrade short changes you in one way or another. The retail version is likely a much better release to have.

[beerguy]

Originally posted by jsjr

If someone out there who's in the same situation and thing we can do something about it, please let me know, I am on it!


Umm for starters you could read my post a couple above your rant

[Sonofhaig]

Originally posted by jsjr
Apple really suck this time!!!

I bought my AI 17" Powerbook when it was released last month... I received my machine on September 22 and now Apple says "only computers purchased on or after October 8th 2003 are qualified!" Come on Apple, the machine is less than a month old!

That's is b******t!

If someone out there who's in the same situation and thing we can do something about it, please let me know, I am on it!

I agree with you. I just got a 1.25 ghz imac. Delivered on the 25th of Sept.
How do you think I feel? I have to suck it up and deal with it. Like one of the posters mentioned, you have to have a cut-off date. But how about a month before, Apple! I'll still get it. I'll just grimace a little when I hand over my money. ;)

[chazmox]

Originally posted by tny
That argument falls down when you have, for instance, a rendering project running on one machine while you're using another to do some editing.

I did mention that in the original post and said that most situations like that would be due to waiting on other SW and not the OS. Although you may still would be "using" the OS... then again if the other computer is just rendering and you don't touch it, then your just really using the Darwin kernel and not the OS.

I know it is a splitting of hairs argument. But then again forcing one user to buy multiple copies of the same license to use on two different computers seems to be also splitting some pretty fine hairs..

[jelwell]

I just bought the new 15 inch superdrive aluminum powerbook with a G4 running at 1.25Ghz. How come my computer came out AFTER the G5's but I don't get an inexpensive upgrade path? When I bought the computer just two weeks ago, long after the G5's were announced, I asked the store about upgrading to Panther and the store representative said they'd have an upgrade path for new computers! Why are G5's an exception to the October 8th cutoff date but not the new G4 powerbooks? The powerbooks cost more, came out later and help boost Apple mindshare by being seen in public rather than being cooped up in an office or a home.

I bought the M8981LL/A model on September 17th. I feel hurt and betrayed that I'm not qualified for the $19.95 upgrade but people who bought their computers months ago are.

A sad apple user,
joe.

[beerguy]

Do you people even read the posts here?

I already posted that my new albook (bought on 9/17) qualified me and suggested folks give it a try....do I need to yell?

The site would not qualify my iMac bought 8/5

[pb1212580]

What kind of alPB is it? 12", 15", 17"?

Did you have to register your powerbook online with Apple?

I tried it... but no luck so far. I just got my 12" delivered TODAY (ordered 09/18) and typed in the serial (didnt' see any "-" symbols in the Serial on the box though...) and it doesn't qualify.

DO I put today's date or 09/18?

Thanks!

[IndyGopher]

Originally posted by pjhornak
When you buy a set of sheets and want to put them on a different bed in your house should you pay the company who made the sheets a "user fee" for "installing" them on another bed??? Do you get it? Does it seem silly now?
What seems silly is your implication that you can use the same sheets on two different beds at the same time. There's really no question what the policy (and law) is. If you don't want to pay it, then don't. No one is likely to stop you from pirating your OS. But don't try to pretend that you aren't pirating it.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by beerguy
Do you people even read the posts here?

I already posted that my new albook (bought on 9/17) qualified me and suggested folks give it a try....do I need to yell?

The site would not qualify my iMac bought 8/5

Sorry for being dense but where do you try this? I got my AL15 on the same date!

[beerguy]

It's a 15" 1.25

I entered the purchase date and serial and it approved my upgrade.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by beerguy
Do you people even read the posts here?

I already posted that my new albook (bought on 9/17) qualified me and suggested folks give it a try....do I need to yell?

The site would not qualify my iMac bought 8/5

Ok... found it... what date did you put down?

[beerguy]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by Teronke
Not happy Apple!!!!!!!!!!!!


They don't care, and neither do I. You all new panther was coming. you should have waited. no excuses.

[blueBomber]

Ordering my new 12" PB tommorrow. I can't wait.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by chazmox
I did mention that in the original post and said that most situations like that would be due to waiting on other SW and not the OS. Although you may still would be "using" the OS... then again if the other computer is just rendering and you don't touch it, then your just really using the Darwin kernel and not the OS.
Doubtfull. If that were the case then the software you are rendering with should be able to be distributed for Darwin as a render-only solution. Most video editing software, for instance, is using the Quicktime API's during rendering I would bet. Plus, the progress dialog window is running in Quartz/Aqua.

Then there's the issue of the software's license itself. If you're using Final Cut Pro , you MUST have 2 licenses to have it installed on two machines at the same time. There was a big debate at the FCP 3 road show in Dallas a couple of years ago when the Apple rep said that if you have a desktop and laptop that you would need two licenses -- [i]even if you didn't run them at the same time/i]. "Technically", he said, Apple's policy is that you would have to uninstall the desktop copy and then install your PowerBook to use a single license on the road. Then, when you got back to the office, you would have to do uninstall it from the PowerBook and install it on the Desktop machine.

I'd assume the same policy holds for OS X.


Back on topic - I'll be waiting to see if FCP and my HP Officjet D-145 both work on 10.3 before laying out my $69.

[Stella]

I don't quite understand this.

There is only one price..

If you have a previous OSX version or not, you still pay the $129.

There is no 'upgrade' version / price.

Originally posted by gopher
As I've said before, the upgrade price most likely does not include:

Archive and Install feature (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107120) which is a godsend for troubleshooting preference issues.

Developer Tools.

So whether you qualify for upgrade price or not, be aware, that the upgrade short changes you in one way or another. The retail version is likely a much better release to have.

[Wonder Boy]

I might as well start wearing an eye patch and half a parrot on my shoulder because ONE license is going on my TWO macs!

and save your moral jiberish. i dont care one bit.

[Silver]

Originally posted by beerguy
Do you people even read the posts here?

I already posted that my new albook (bought on 9/17) qualified me and suggested folks give it a try....do I need to yell?

The site would not qualify my iMac bought 8/5

I ordered my 15" Al w/Superdrive on 9/29, and is apprently still stuck in Singapore. I *really* hope it comes w/ Panther as it looks like its going to take until Pather's release to come. Which sadly means I don't have SN to try with yet. If it doesnt I am going to be really upset and yell at Apples Customer Relations.

Its pretty much B******T that G5 owners get it regardless of date while us Powerbook people (who are already cranky about the lame shipments and no warning our orders were comming from China and would take a month) are just plain out of luck.

But thanks for the info BeerGuy. I am hoping it works for me.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by beerguy
It's a 15" 1.25

I entered the purchase date and serial and it approved my upgrade.

Thanks beerguy... it worked for me too... hmmm... wonder if they'll figure it out...

Let's keep this a secret now...

[robotrenegade]

I woundered what was taking apple so long to ship my Dual G5. I guess I can wait. (haha)

[Powerbook G5]

Originally posted by chazmox
Thanks beerguy... it worked for me too... hmmm... wonder if they'll figure it out...

Let's keep this a secret now...

It still doesn't accept my serial number.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Doubtfull. If that were the case then the software you are rendering with should be able to be distributed for Darwin as a render-only solution. Most video editing software, for instance, is using the Quicktime API's during rendering I would bet. Plus, the progress dialog window is running in Quartz/Aqua.

Then there's the issue of the software's license itself. If you're using Final Cut Pro , you MUST have 2 licenses to have it installed on two machines at the same time. There was a big debate at the FCP 3 road show in Dallas a couple of years ago when the Apple rep said that if you have a desktop and laptop that you would need two licenses -- [i]even if you didn't run them at the same time/i]. "Technically", he said, Apple's policy is that you would have to uninstall the desktop copy and then install your PowerBook to use a single license on the road. Then, when you got back to the office, you would have to do uninstall it from the PowerBook and install it on the Desktop machine.

I'd assume the same policy holds for OS X.


Back on topic - I'll be waiting to see if FCP and my HP Officjet D-145 both work on 10.3 before laying out my $69.

Good points... interesting how the Apple rep said "Technically.... Apple's policy..." like the alternative would have been, "but realistically..."

[arn]

New thread/story for Aluminum PowerBook Up-to-Date?

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031008140829.shtml

arn

[Ramsos]

I can't wait!! But I have to. Panther is finally almost here.:D

[kerryb]

only kidding.

[albockiole]

Unfortunately, when I go to Apple's up-to-date page, I am unable to get it to work with the 12" PowerBook I just received. It was ordered on Sept. 25.

The form says:
Sorry, we can't find the serial number you provided. Please recheck your serial number and enter it again.

We're sorry, we can't qualify this system on the web. Please download the mail-in coupon for this system.
I originally ordered the computer from the Apple Online Store and it's been registered. Don't know why it's working for some, but not for me.

[dr_lha]

Originally posted by Winston Smith
Just rang Apple to chase my new PB (after 5 e-mails with different expected ship dates in as many days)

They say it will leave Taiwan at the end of this week or the beginning of next and ship with Panther!!!

WoooHoooooo

Probably means it won't actually reach me until 24/10 but maybe I'll get a new Cat early!!!

Interesting. My 12" PB shipped from Taiwan today. I wonder if it'll come with Panther installed?

[robotrenegade]

I got my powerbook 9/30/03 and it gave me the up-to-date price. HAHAHA

[-hh]

Originally posted by chazmox
I believe you are absolutely correct. I just find it egregious that one person has too buy multiple licenses for thier own personal use.

That's nothing: try reading Microsoft's Licence for MS-Office. We all know that its a bundle of multiple products, predominantly Word, Excel and Powerpoint....but that's not what the Licence says anymore. MS's licence no longer allows you to install PPT on one PC and everything else on a second PC.

This change was probably ~6 years ago now. We were running a keyserver to share ~150 licences across ~200 PC's, and we ended up having to go suddenly find the money to buy ~50 additional full licences, in order to just maintain our legal status quo. The value-added to our organization was zilch.


-hh

[weezer160]

I'm just curious, does anybody have any idea when Panther will start to be preinstalled in new PowerBooks and Power Macs? It would be great to have it preinstalled, as to not go through the hassel of having to install it in a brand new machine. I'm looking too pick up a new 15" Aluminim PB and a Dual Processor in January.

[JayBee]

Originally posted by Stella
I don't quite understand this.

There is only one price..

If you have a previous OSX version or not, you still pay the $129.

There is no 'upgrade' version / price.

I think they're talking about the G5 "upgrade" license at $19-95 or whatever. If it's just software restore disks, it might be limited in how you can install it.

However, I saw someone else mention that it came with box/manuals etc, so it could be that they're the "same" packs.

[manu chao]

What about installing the OS on an external harddrive and then alternately boot two computers from them? :D

[Archaeopteryx]

I think most people, The ones who say they recived a new Mac about a week or so ago, are missing the fact that the new OS wasnt released today... In fact if I got a mac a week ago it would be exactly 24 days bafore it is released... being a lot longer then "a week or so". I called apple and asked about my G5 order, its expected to ship on the 29th, the lady said that if it was shipped at least 10 days after the announcment that I would recive it with the new OS installed.. I wonder if I will recive an updated restore cd for it though?

[Mr. G4]

Every one (computers) has to reside in the same house :)

Originally posted by cr2sh
I doubt you can do this, but is it possible to get a student discount on the family pack? Say my Dad was a teacher could he buy it for the rest of the family at a discount rate? I can't find it in the apple store.. anyone? thanks!

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
I might as well start wearing an eye patch and half a parrot on my shoulder because ONE license is going on my TWO macs!

and save your moral jiberish. i dont care one bit.

If you don't care about the moral/legal implications, then please just do whatever your going to do and don't bother the rest of us about it. No one is trying to force their morals on you. We are only trying to communicate the legal issues surrounding the issue (and not just to you).

And the reality is that the issue is that the software license allows you to run the software on exactly one computer at any one time. Therefore, the moment you have two computers booted from the same license, you have violated the license that you agreed to. If you require more that one computers in use at one time, you are supposed to get the family pack (or some other license arrangement) that has different license conditions.

No one will police what you decide to do, but unless you have something more useful to add than "I don't care", then please stay out of the conversation.

[nalfein]

I have heard somewhere (french macbidouille website) that apple give deliberatly "free" copy of panther to peoples who have "new" computer(bought after apple expo). That why your serial # should work on apple website.

[1adonis1]

I might have missed this earlier....but if you dont run both the computers at the same time, loading the SW on two computers is OK?
Originally posted by Rincewind42
If you don't care about the moral/legal implications, then please just do whatever your going to do and don't bother the rest of us about it. No one is trying to force their morals on you. We are only trying to communicate the legal issues surrounding the issue (and not just to you).

And the reality is that the issue is that the software license allows you to run the software on exactly one computer at any one time. Therefore, the moment you have two computers booted from the same license, you have violated the license that you agreed to. If you require more that one computers in use at one time, you are supposed to get the family pack (or some other license arrangement) that has different license conditions.

No one will police what you decide to do, but unless you have something more useful to add than "I don't care", then please stay out of the conversation.

[macMaestro]

http://www.apple.com/retail/panther/

[daveL]

What I'd like to know is when will 10.3 GM be available for download on the ADC site? I'm an ADC Select member, and the latest build I can get is still 7B74! I've paid my $500/year, so why do I have to wait for a legal DL from ADC while others have been get 7B85 since last week off the p2p nets. It should be obvious to Apple, at this point, that ADC members didn't leak the build.

For Jaguar, the ADC site had the final build available to paying members 3 weeks before it was available to the public.

[Bluefusion]

Can anyone tell me if High School students get any kind of educational discount? I'm a junior and I'd really love to go for that $69 pricing...

Also, based on last year (I wasn't there for the Jaguar launch) about how insane would it be to try to buy a copy in person at Apple SoHo? :P The iPod Night launch had a tremendous amount of people but it worked out fabulously...

[network23]

I made my first visit to an Apple Store two weeks ago in Chicago and got my first look at the AlumPB's. I am so glad I was able to resist and wait.

[nalfein]

Originally posted by network23
I made my first visit to an Apple Store two weeks ago in Chicago and got my first look at the AlumPB's. I am so glad I was able to resist and wait.

You should'nt I got my baby and i will have my panther cd for 20$ so ...

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by Rincewind42
If you don't care about the moral/legal implications, then please just do whatever your going to do and don't bother the rest of us about it. No one is trying to force their morals on you. We are only trying to communicate the legal issues surrounding the issue (and not just to you).

And the reality is that the issue is that the software license allows you to run the software on exactly one computer at any one time. Therefore, the moment you have two computers booted from the same license, you have violated the license that you agreed to. If you require more that one computers in use at one time, you are supposed to get the family pack (or some other license arrangement) that has different license conditions.

No one will police what you decide to do, but unless you have something more useful to add than "I don't care", then please stay out of the conversation.

Look, im not going to buy a 5 license pack when i only have 2 computers.

I think my i dont care statement is very useful. it not only expresses how i feel, but i have a feeling im not the only one who will put one licensed copy on multiple computers.

I think the issue goes beyond a moral/sinful mentality. the heart of the matter is the fact that people are "ripping off" apple. i think i get ripped off by apple a lot. i bought jaguar close to a year ago and now they upgrade, and im sure those who bought a powerbook on the 7th feel ripped off. the point is, if apple is going to charge everyone 130$ and over price hardware because they know we are so loyal we will buy it anyway, i have no problem with sticking it back to them every once and a while.

i can hear many of you now, "by not paying apple, youre not contributing to their profit to fend of microsoft and help apple grow." that may be true. but if any more of my money goes into producing another commercial like the G5, thats what they deserve. BTW, where are the powerbook commercials?

OUT

[wdlove]

I'm very excited about the release of Panther. :cool: Looking forward to the party at my local Apple Store. Anxious to see what Steve has in store. I know that geeting there early is the best policy.

[saint.duo]

The reseller is more boxed into policy than Apple is. If they give you anything special regarding this (other than re-dating your invoice), they are losing money on it, and being extremely nice to you.

Originally posted by Romanesq
for delivery this morning on the UPS truck. I had made the order over the weekend through J&R online. Should I refuse the delivery???

Have the reseller - redo the order?
Complain to apple?

Just got off the phone with apple. Poor rep, she's boxed in the policy.
Says I can call the reseller.

Seems a shame to let a poor PB go to waste, just to reship it today?:confused:

[MattG]

Well just for the hell of it, I tried ordering Panther through the up-to-date program, using the serial from the 15" Aluminum Powerbook I received a couple weeks ago. It took! $25 for Panther.

Calling to cancel the edu. order I placed earlier this morning right now. :D

[saint.duo]

Apple isn't sticking a gun to your head and forcing you to upgrade. If you install a single user copy of Panther on two machines, you are in violation of the license agreement, whether you like it or not. Apple did the family pack (5 machines for $199, less than the cost of two single copies), to "keep honest people honest".

Apple has to draw the line for $19.95 upgrades somewhere. If they didn't stand on something (it has almost ALWAYS been ship announcement date), then they would bend backwards forever making people happy. I don't like that the G5 owners should get special treatment (you spent no more than G4 owners did when Jaguar shipped, probably less, actually), but more power to you if you've bought a G5.

Since 8.0, Apple has shipped a new PAID upgrade every 10-14 months. 10.1 -> 10.2 -> 10.3 is not really any different. As I said, Apple is not FORCING you to upgrade. Hell, most of the current Applications require 10.1.5 or higher, so even 10.1 users are currently not being left behind.

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
Look, im not going to buy a 5 license pack when i only have 2 computers.

I think my i dont care statement is very useful. it not only expresses how i feel, but i have a feeling im not the only one who will put one licensed copy on multiple computers.

I think the issue goes beyond a moral/sinful mentality. the heart of the matter is the fact that people are "ripping off" apple. i think i get ripped off by apple a lot. i bought jaguar close to a year ago and now they upgrade, and im sure those who bought a powerbook on the 7th feel ripped off. the point is, if apple is going to charge everyone 130$ and over price hardware because they know we are so loyal we will buy it anyway, i have no problem with sticking it back to them every once and a while.

i can hear many of you now, "by not paying apple, youre not contributing to their profit to fend of microsoft and help apple grow." that may be true. but if any more of my money goes into producing another commercial like the G5, thats what they deserve. BTW, where are the powerbook commercials?
OUT

[greenstork]

But but but, I just bought a 12" PB in September and Panther's not free, this is no fair.

My mommy said.....

and Mac Rumors said.....

It's just not fair. I'm entitled, I'm special, I deserve it, Steve Jobs told me I do. I knew it was coming but I thought I would buy it anyway because Steve Jobs told me personally that I would get the discount anyway. The salesman didn't tell me, the website didn't tell me but my mommy and Steve Jobs told me so. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH! WAAAAAHHHHHHH! :mad:

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy

i think i get ripped off by apple a lot. i bought jaguar close to a year ago and now they upgrade...
OUT

No one is forcing you to upgrade. Jaguar will still work on October 25th. If you want to "stick it to Apple," you can do it legally by contiuing to use Jaguar after Panther ships.

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by 1adonis1
I might have missed this earlier....but if you dont run both the computers at the same time, loading the SW on two computers is OK?

It is entirely possible that that may be true. IANAL. I think M$ even got sued over something like that (forcing users to buy license per computer rather than per user, but I think that was for Office). But personally, I wouldn't want to be the one to test the legal waters on that murky puddle.

[noel4r]

why isn't iDVD 3.0 included in Panther? as i recall it wasn't available for download because of its file size. i'm sure it will fit in the Jaguar disc now. way to go SJ, very smooth............

[heywhynots]

Originally posted by Bluefusion
Can anyone tell me if High School students get any kind of educational discount? I'm a junior and I'd really love to go for that $69 pricing...

Also, based on last year (I wasn't there for the Jaguar launch) about how insane would it be to try to buy a copy in person at Apple SoHo? :P The iPod Night launch had a tremendous amount of people but it worked out fabulously...

The simple answer is no. This is from the Apple Store for K-12 schools:
"
Who is Eligible To Purchase
The following education individuals are eligible to purchase through the Apple Store for Education individuals:

* Employee of public or private K-12 institutions in the United States
* School Board members who are currently serving as elected or appointed members
* PTA or PTO executives currently serving as elected or appointed officers
* Qualified homeschools
* Employee of a public or private, profit or non-profit preschool
"

[chickengrease16]

Originally posted by Bluefusion
Can anyone tell me if High School students get any kind of educational discount? I'm a junior and I'd really love to go for that $69 pricing...


not from apple. if you're (or know) a college student, you can find your university on their educational site. i go to florida state university and havent had any problems, plus we have an apple store (sorta) on campus. however, for high school students, you can go to sites like www.edu.com and they will offer educational prices to high school students. usually you have to send them a scanned copy of your school id and schedule or whatever they ask but yeah. but its a million times easier to deal with the apple school for education, so try and find a college student to buy it for ya. just dont ask me :-)

[naz]

Originally posted by Romanesq
After rounds of discussions with Apple OS Update and the reseller, turns out the reseller has a ton of class: JandR. They advised that if I refuse the delivery, I can just redo it in a day and have another 15 pb sent to me, thus qualifying for the panther update.

Now, when the UPS truck rings the bell... what should I do? What will I do?
I don't know myself. :confused:

Go to the door and tell the UPS person you refuse delivery. they will send it back.

if you hide you will delay the return because they will come back the next day

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by chazmox
Good points... interesting how the Apple rep said "Technically.... Apple's policy..." like the alternative would have been, "but realistically..." ;) ;) , nudge, nudge :)

[jxyama]

Originally posted by noel4r
why isn't iDVD 3.0 included in Panther? as i recall it wasn't available for download because of its file size. i'm sure it will fit in the Jaguar disc now. way to go SJ, very smooth............

iDVD is basically useless unless you have SuperDrive.

to Wonder Boy: apple "ripping you off" doesn't give you the right or justification to rip them off back. if you have problem with apple's pricing or products, then don't buy them. i realize you are going to do whatever you will do, that's fine. and there might as well be others who will do the same and install one panther copy on two or more computers. i know you don't care. so be it, just stop trying to justify it in any way because you really can't.

is it more ok to rob a millionaire because it won't affect him/her as much as if you were to rob a low income person?

[rwclark]

Originally posted by beerguy
Do you people even read the posts here?

I already posted that my new albook (bought on 9/17) qualified me and suggested folks give it a try....do I need to yell?

The site would not qualify my iMac bought 8/5

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to work for everyone's AlBook.

[eric_n_dfw]

Noone here is inocent, ever drive over the speed limit? You've broken the law.

Ever take a company pen home? You've stolen (unless your company says that's okay)

Just like a cop doesn't waste his time pulling over someone doing 5 over the limit, Apple is probably not going to sue you for running OS X on 2 machines.

I don't do it because I don't have 2 OS X capable machines and because I'm a software developer and feel that OS X would be worth it because I know what they've put into it.

[elensil]

Does any of you remember the coupons that came with your computer? I think they were green. If I am not mistaken each coupon entitles one with a free software upgrade.
I am not home so i can't check what exactly do they say. I have a hunch they would not work:((

[1adonis1]

Yeah, i was wondering how i ended up with iMovie 3 and with iDVD 2. I bought my computer with Jaguar on it. There is no update for iDVD, you have to buy iLife to get it. Do anyone know how this happend. Why would i buy iLife again, what the hell is up with apple. (or is it just me)

Originally posted by jxyama
iDVD is basically useless unless you have SuperDrive.

[maxterpiece]

Not to complain about the performance of my G5 or anything... It's pretty darn fast, but does anyone know what kind of performance boost 10.3 is supposed to give to G5s ? I've heard that it's pretty big time.