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Nawlins
Oct 8, 2003, 12:15 PM
I switched in July 2003 - bought a 12" Powerbook (first generation, 2nd generation wasn't released at that point) with Combo drive. Here are my complains about Apple:

AppleWorks
1. It didn't come with my Mac - 12" Powerbook, first generation, which was a major pain in the ass. How does Apple expect college students to use their computers for word processing? iBooks come with AppleWorks, but I knew I wanted a Powerbook because of speed concerns (though I probably would've gotten the 14" iBook over my Pbook if I could do it over again).
2. The underline, italic, and bold features are not as easy to use as Microsoft Word.
3. Changing fonts isn't as easy as Microsoft Word. In Word, I can simply type the name of the font I want instead of scrolling through the massive list in AppleWorks.
4. There are still major compatibility issues with the latest issue of Microsoft Word. AppleWorks does not let me save in the .doc format, only in the .cwk.doc format, which won't open on any version of Microsoft Word.

iTunes and iTunes Music Store
1. iTunes is extremely easy to use (especially burning Cd's), but I really wish it organized the songs with drop-down menus like Kazaa does (I'm a former Kazaa user), or, at the bare minimum, arrange the songs so the artist appears before song titles. It's really annoying to have to scroll through my entire library if I wanted to go from 'Tom Petty' to 'Barenaked Ladies,' for example.
2. That being said, songs should be arranged alphabetically instead of alphabetically based on the year they were released. I've deleted the album information from a lot of my songs so they're in alphabetical order for each artist, it's just much easier that way.
3. There needs to be a pause in between songs when they're playing in iTunes. Often I have my music on shuffle, and I hear the beginning of a very hard song cutting off the end of a soft, peaceful song. The lack of a pause is annoying and unnecesary.

Why doesn't Apple invest more money to develop a better word processing program for its computers? They could design a really high-quality WP program to compete with Word, price it for slightly less, and make a bunch of money.

iChat
1. I really like how I can change everyone's screen names so I can view their real name on my buddy list. However, I wish the buddy list appeared with the names closer together so lots of scrolling through buddy lists becomes unnecessary.
2. The sounds on AIM for Windwos are much better than the ones on iChat.

The Computer Itself
A true delete key would be nice. The delete key found on my Pbook is like the backspace key on Windows-based PCs, which isn't like the actual delete key on Windows, which is what I'm looking for.

Apple Mouse
The Apple Mouse is really uncomfortable because it's shaped in a way that provides zero support for the palm and knuckle area of your hand. I avoid using Apple-designed mice when I can.

iPod
I like music a lot, and would like an mp3 player that could store all my music. I only have about 420 songs on my computer, and I'll never fill up 5 gigabytes worth of music. That's an insane amount. If Apple designed iPods with smaller storage capabilities that came with a dock and remote, I'd probably buy one. But I'll never spend $300 on a product I can't use to its full potential.

Dont Hurt Me
Oct 8, 2003, 12:24 PM
you need a subscription to MacAddict or perhaps Macworld Mag. most all your issues can be solved but sorry you didnt get appleworks. that should come standard. read up on itunes

bousozoku
Oct 8, 2003, 12:36 PM
It may take a little time, but then, it always does when becoming accustomed to something totally new.

AppleWorks has been fine when exporting to MS Word. I always use Word 97 since that seems to be the last format that works with every product I've used. As far as Apple creating a more powerful word processor--they had one--MacWrite and it was discontinued. There are many alternatives. It's not imperative for Apple to provide AppleWorks on every machine when most professionals would probably not use it.

iTunes music can be sorted several ways. Click on the column heading to change it.

If you don't like the sounds or other things about iChat, you can still use AIM. You can also use AIM groups in iChat, if you want to cut things down a bit so there's less scrolling to be done.

You should buy a magazine subscription or a book or two to become familiar. There's a lot you can do with what you have. You just need to find things.

Jays
Oct 8, 2003, 12:43 PM
you can change the pause between songs in Itunes in the iTunes preferences that is the crossfade slider.

Daveman Deluxe
Oct 8, 2003, 12:50 PM
Delete key: press "fn" and delete at the same time.

iTunes:
You can sort by any criteria displayed in the window by clicking on the appropriate column heading.
To introduce the pause, go to Preferences, click on the "Advanced" icon and uncheck "Crossfade Playback".

crazzyeddie
Oct 8, 2003, 01:10 PM
You do know that you can buy the full MS Office suite for $150 as a student...

Most people find the Mac OS X version of Word to be better than the Windows version.

Also, if you want the PC to read the Word files that Appleworks saves, simply remove the .cwk part... so File.cwk.doc becomes File.doc

jermsmingy
Oct 8, 2003, 01:22 PM
in the top right or your itunes there is a search field type the song, artist, or album and it will automatically start finding the song you want.

iJon
Oct 8, 2003, 01:45 PM
yep most of your problems can be solved. office can be bought real cheap with your discout. if you dont like apple's mouse buy another one. try out adium if you do not like ichat. as for the ipod, the market you are looking for is the market apple doesnt want to provide for. apple has had great success selling 300+ dollar mp3 players, which is why they are number 1. but yeah, your just new to the mac, it will take time. just keep reading this site and work with people who own macs if you know anyone. you will catch on and learn all the tricks and tips soon enough.

iJon

Nawlins
Oct 8, 2003, 02:19 PM
I'm a college student, I don't have hundreds of dollars laying around to throw down on Microsoft Word, a new mouse, and other programs...

While I recognize there are alternatives to the things I'd like to be able to use on my computer, it would be nice if Apple included those things on their comptuers, because there aren't any negative characteristics about the things I listed, and there are a few positive characteristics.

And a lot of professionals, especially people who work in office environments, could use a sweet word processing program.

Crazyeddie:

I've tried saving my AppleWorks files like that before, and it hasn't worked. The computers in the library here have Microsoft Office 2000 (the worst one they made), so that might be why it hasn't been working. I'll try again tonight.

jxyama
Oct 8, 2003, 02:37 PM
i know this is kind of nitpicking but if you read the fine lines, you'd have noticed that PB doesn't come with AppleWorks. i understand your desire to have a word processor app installed on your PB, but you need to check the facts first. iBook, as you've found out, does come with AppleWorks.

as for the mouse, i agree, i am not a big fan of apple mouse. it's a cool design but not the most functional. you should have tried out the mouse as other mice do work with macs...

i understand that you don't have the money lying around. most of us don't. it probably would have been better to have read the fine lines and budget yourself accordingly. too bad you had made your purchase before coming here more often - many of us could have alerted you to your needs and recommended an ibook and a non-apple mouse...

as for ipod, i'd look around for an used 5gb or 10gb ones. with luck, you might find one for less than $200. you can either fill it with 400 songs encoded at a higher bitrate or back up your crucial documents. if you get one, you won't be under-utilizing it. you'll find a way to get the most out of it...

btw, i imagine that people who work in an office environ wouldn't settle for AppleWorks. they'd probably demand Office. (btw, did you try OpenOffice? that's free...)

AppleMatt
Oct 8, 2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Nawlins
I'm a college student, I don't have hundreds of dollars laying around to throw down on Microsoft Word, a new mouse, and other programs...


You'll find that not many Mac users like the Mac mice. I'm not sure what you mean about not having the cash to drop on a new mouse...you bought an Apple mouse...probably the most expensive mouse you can get spec wise, and you also say that you avoid using Apple mice whenever you can. So why did you buy it? Sell/return it and get a wireless Logitech mouse. Dream to use and lots of beer money left over.

As others have said, the rest of your issues don't really exist and are easily solved, just read around the Software section of this forum and you'll pick it up in no time. As you get more confident you'll discover how-to replace those iChat sounds with the Windows ones you know and love ;)

I use my iPod for back-ups aswell as music. Remember, as a college student if your laptop gets nicked the insurance will replace it, but it won't replace the work that gets nicked with it. At the very least back-up to CD-RW and send it home.

AppleMatt

slowtreme
Oct 8, 2003, 02:55 PM
It's unfortunate that you did end up purchasing Appleworks. I would have asked around "So what do I get out of Office for that extra 70 bucks?"

pepeleuepe
Oct 8, 2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Nawlins

iTunes and iTunes Music Store
1. iTunes is extremely easy to use (especially burning Cd's), but I really wish it organized the songs with drop-down menus like Kazaa does (I'm a former Kazaa user), or, at the bare minimum, arrange the songs so the artist appears before song titles. It's really annoying to have to scroll through my entire library if I wanted to go from 'Tom Petty' to 'Barenaked Ladies,' for example.
2. That being said, songs should be arranged alphabetically instead of alphabetically based on the year they were released. I've deleted the album information from a lot of my songs so they're in alphabetical order for each artist, it's just much easier that way.


All the suggestions above are true, but also try pressing the "Browse" button in the top right of iTunes. It pulls pulls down two new windows so you can browse by artist, album, or song name.

tutubibi
Oct 8, 2003, 03:34 PM
I guess you already have AppleWorks but just in case somebody else is in the same situation like you:

Consider OpenOffice (www.openoffice.org) instead of MS Office or AppleWorks.
It's free and nice alternative to paid applications.

yamabushi
Oct 8, 2003, 03:44 PM
Yeah Appleworks needs to be much better than it is. It was okay back in the day when it was known as Clarisworks but it's showing it's age.

My sister is a college student and she bought an iBook. After becoming frustrated with Appleworks, she gave up and eventually traded her iBook for a Dell.:eek: I tried to tell her about Office:Mac but she wasn't willing to cough up that much dough. So, I tried to tell her about some free or cheap software options but she didn't really think they would be good enough for her. BTW she has had plenty of problems with the Dell. What should I do? Buy her a new Mac? I'd like to but...pricey. :(

Personally, I miss my Powerbook 140B. It worked great for typing papers. Awesome keyboard and trackball. :)

panphage
Oct 8, 2003, 04:16 PM
For the $80 dollars you spent on the apple mouse and the $80 you spent on AppleWorks you could have got Office X for students. Of course, I'd recommend you skip both the mouse and Office and use OpenOffice.org, it really is quite good. My only complaint is that it copies MS Office/Win (which I hate) too much. Proprietary document formats are SO 1999 anyway. Time to move on and use an open, XML-based format...like OpenOffice does.

Another take on your complaints:
Apple bundles a ton of well-thought out, working, easy to use software with their machines. You can edit DV right out of the box and you're complaining about the word processor...which Apple DOES bundle with their *consumer* machines for no added cost. In the windows world, you'd be paying $200 for a Word-compatable word-processor (OK, it IS word, so it's REALLY Word-compatable.)

I've got 9.75GB full on my 15GB iPod. So people's needs are clearly different.

jxyama
Oct 8, 2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by demagalhaes
Originally posted by Nawlins
I'm a college student, I don't have hundreds of dollars laying around to throw down on Microsoft Word, a new mouse, and other programs...

have you tried XXXX, i get all the software that i need for free! i know it is stealingbut we the students, can steal to buy later, when we get a salary!

you are going to love the mac anyway!
regards

eck. sure, you will buy all those software later...

if you are going to steal, the LEAST you can do is not advertise how. it's not right.

Rower_CPU
Oct 8, 2003, 04:28 PM
Discussion of warez/serials is not allowed.

Nawlins
Oct 8, 2003, 06:39 PM
I have not purchased any mice made by Apple - I just don't like them.

AppleWorks was $40 on Apple's website after the education discount, which means Office would be $100 more, not just $70 more. And I bought the Powerbook because it's a much faster machine. I can burn a CD significantly faster with my Pbook than with any iBook, for example. If the Pbook is truly a "professional" notebook computer, then Apple would've included word processing software, since it's something many, if not most, professionals use. Look, I realize you guys are trying to defend a company you obviously like very much, but my complaints are certainly legitimate - there's no reason why Apple should not include word processing software, when they stand to make a lot of money by designing a program that could be much better than Word/Office. They have everything to gain and very little to losee.

While having DV capabilities built-in on my Pbook is pretty cool, most college students can't afford to buy a DV camera anyhow (note: emphasis on most here, I realize some college students can afford to pay hundreds of dollars on a camera, but most can't). My major and other studies don't require the need for a DV camera, so I really would never use one, since I don't have the money to pay for something like that to use for amusement or entertainment.

iJon
Oct 8, 2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by Nawlins
I have not purchased any mice made by Apple - I just don't like them.

AppleWorks was $40 on Apple's website after the education discount, which means Office would be $100 more, not just $70 more. And I bought the Powerbook because it's a much faster machine. I can burn a CD significantly faster with my Pbook than with any iBook, for example. If the Pbook is truly a "professional" notebook computer, then Apple would've included word processing software, since it's something many, if not most, professionals use. Look, I realize you guys are trying to defend a company you obviously like very much, but my complaints are certainly legitimate - there's no reason why Apple should not include word processing software, when they stand to make a lot of money by designing a program that could be much better than Word/Office. They have everything to gain and very little to losee.

While having DV capabilities built-in on my Pbook is pretty cool, most college students can't afford to buy a DV camera anyhow (note: emphasis on most here, I realize some college students can afford to pay hundreds of dollars on a camera, but I can't). My major and other studies don't require the need for a DV camera, so I really would never use one, since I don't have the money to pay for something like that to use for amusement or entertainment.
i am going to disagree with you. many customers i work with dont care if their powerbook or powermac can type papers, obviously you are a college student and have to type most likely. plus most customers i have who buy a powermac and powerbook can afford to shell out for office and have no problem with it. look, apple is already giving you your laptop at a discounted price, 40 bucks isnt bad for appleworks, 100 more isnt too bad for office either. if money is such an up tight issue you should buy thinkfree or download openoffice which is free. and technically apple did include a word processor, its called texedit.

iJon

Nawlins
Oct 8, 2003, 07:44 PM
And most of the people I've talked to who use word processing software tell me they won't buy a "professional" Mac unless it has word processing software on it. I don't know anyone who uses a computer who doesn't do word processing on it. Even if you don't type reports or papers on a regular basis, you might still have to write notes, letters to loved ones, or type a resume. There are many uses for a word processing program that Apple could capitalize on, even if it feels many people don't need it. Think about this issue for a moment - Apple has nothing to lose by making a competitive word processing program. Apple could only gain from the situation, because they could make Microsoft look really stupid if they design some word processing software that's better than the one Microsoft has been making for years. Don't kid yourself, Text Edit is not a true word processing program. It doesn't have nearly the same kinds of features as Word or AppleWorks. You already conceded AppleWorks has a bunch of flaws - so why shouldn't Apple design a better word processing program? Apple is screwing up now, it's their burden to design a better product. If you want to argue that Apple products are only for the wealthy, that's fine. But that also might be a reason why Apple only controls 3-5% of the computer market in the U.S. (Apple says 5%, most independent sources say about 3%). There's obviously reasons why so many people don't like Apple. Because Apple seems to be doing most other things correctly, I suspect the lack of a solid, dependable word processing program could be driving consumers away As for OpenOffice, I'm downloading it right now, and I will post soon to let you know what I think.

iJon
Oct 8, 2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Nawlins
And most of the people I've talked to who use word processing software tell me they won't buy a "professional" Mac unless it has word processing software on it. I don't know anyone who uses a computer who doesn't do word processing on it. Even if you don't type reports or papers on a regular basis, you might still have to write notes, letters to loved ones, or type a resume. There are many uses for a word processing program that Apple could capitalize on, even if it feels many people don't need it. Think about this issue for a moment - Apple has nothing to lose by making a competitive word processing program. Apple could only gain from the situation, because they could make Microsoft look really stupid if they design some word processing software that's better than the one Microsoft has been making for years. Don't kid yourself, Text Edit is not a true word processing program. It doesn't have nearly the same kinds of features as Word or AppleWorks. You already conceded AppleWorks has a bunch of flaws - so why shouldn't Apple design a better word processing program? Apple is screwing up now, it's their burden to design a better product. If you want to argue that Apple products are only for the wealthy, that's fine. But that also might be a reason why Apple only controls 3-5% of the computer market in the U.S. (Apple says 5%, most independent sources say about 3%). There's obviously reasons why so many people don't like Apple. Because Apple seems to be doing most other things correctly, I suspect the lack of a solid, dependable word processing program could be driving consumers away As for OpenOffice, I'm downloading it right now, and I will post soon to let you know what I think.
right now it isnt a good idea for apple to make their own processor. they will piss off microsoft and all they have to do is strip office away from apple and the mac os is in a world of hurt, even if apple makes their own, and microsoft could easily lock them out with formats not accesible to apple. plus i know lots of people who dont do word processing on their mac, and many of them are power users who get powerbooks and powermacs. obviously we know your problem by now, you are mad because you had to spend 40 dollars for typing. now im not going to say your cheap, because your a student and college is all about saving money and managing it. you could have gotten a slower compuer with typing software, or you can get a fast computer with no typing software, this is the way it is and you chose the faster computer route. enjoy appleworks, if you dont buy word from your local campus store when funds allow, if not buy thinkfree office or see if you like that openoffice. if nothing is good for you than i dont know what to tell you, go buy a dell with word on it, nothing will get solved here complaining to us. also, go return your apple mouse and get a real mouse and put the saved money back in your pocket.

iJon

Phil Of Mac
Oct 8, 2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Nawlins
iPod
I like music a lot, and would like an mp3 player that could store all my music. I only have about 420 songs on my computer, and I'll never fill up 5 gigabytes worth of music. That's an insane amount. If Apple designed iPods with smaller storage capabilities that came with a dock and remote, I'd probably buy one. But I'll never spend $300 on a product I can't use to its full potential.

It's called backups. Think of it as an external FireWire hard drive that plays music, too :)

Originally posted by Nawlins
While having DV capabilities built-in on my Pbook is pretty cool, most college students can't afford to buy a DV camera anyhow

Here at WSU you can check them out at the computer labs.

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Discussion of warez/serials is not allowed.

Question: If warez can't be discussed here, then why the incessant discussions about music piracy? What's the diff?

Flowbee
Oct 8, 2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Nawlins
As for OpenOffice, I'm downloading it right now, and I will post soon to let you know what I think.

Oh goody... I can hardly wait. While you're at it, let us know if you've figured out how to sort and search music in iTunes. :rolleyes:

Nawlins
Oct 8, 2003, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
Oh goody... I can hardly wait. While you're at it, let us know if you've figured out how to sort and search music in iTunes. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the absent minded criticism. I know how to search for songs in iTunes, however, I think the drop-down style of Kazaa is easier to use because the person using the computer does not have to switch between typing and pointing/clicking the mouse (it usually requires 2 hands to do both). I find the method of drop down boxes to be more efficient, and thus easier to use.

Give me a reason why the search feature is better, instead of just making fun of people you disagree with.

iJon
Oct 8, 2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Nawlins
Thanks for the absent minded criticism. I know how to search for songs in iTunes, however, I think the drop-down style of Kazaa is easier to use because the person using the computer does not have to switch between typing and pointing/clicking the mouse (it usually requires 2 hands to do both). I find the method of drop down boxes to be more efficient, and thus easier to use.

Give me a reason why the search feature is better, instead of just making fun of people you disagree with.
who gives a s*** if kazaa is better or whatever, this thread is getting stupid.

Kwyjibo
Oct 8, 2003, 09:22 PM
they offered a browse feature other than searching dude click browse and you get to select it kind of like drop down but instead it open it on the side if you really want drop down menus open the itunes folder and make it list view then click each file and have it take longer than a search for the browse within program

Nawlins
Oct 8, 2003, 09:25 PM
iJon:

I'm not mad because I spent $40 on AppleWorks. I'm mad because AppleWorks sucks...

iJon
Oct 8, 2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by Nawlins
iJon:

I'm not mad because I spent $40 on AppleWorks. I'm mad because AppleWorks sucks...
then buy something better and stop complaining. if you dont have money than find a way to stop complaining or make some money.

iJon

Rower_CPU
Oct 8, 2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
<snip>
Question: If warez can't be discussed here, then why the incessant discussions about music piracy? What's the diff?

Report it if you see it.

It's a grey area, since P2P discussion is OK, but people asking for or giving out info on any sort of piracy is not allowed - as far as I know.

Debates about ethics and morality of piracy are a whole other matter...

Flowbee
Oct 8, 2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Nawlins
Give me a reason why the search feature is better, instead of just making fun of people you disagree with.

I'm not saying anything is better or worse.

You started this thread by posting a list of 'issues' that seem to indicate you're somewhat of a Mac novice. Then, when people started offering suggestions, you turned it into a rant about how Apple is 'screwing up' by not providing a free word processor... computers are only for the rich... 3% market share... etc.

I'm just saying that given your behavior in this thread, I'm not eagerly awaiting your opinion of OpenOffice. That's all.

Chill out.

Horrortaxi
Oct 8, 2003, 10:41 PM
All this proves how productive you can be on a Mac. Could Nawlins complain this much if he had bought a Dell?

hulugu
Oct 8, 2003, 10:55 PM
...have their weaknesses. But, I believe iTunes system is much better than the drop down system Kazaa uses. The mac uses its mouse much more and while you may find yourself switching hands, the mouse is a much more effective tool in doing things.
As for the iPod, I think you'll find you will put more music on it and on your machine. I have 36 hrs of music on my machine and it kicks ass, I can select techno, rock, classical, jazz all by a simple touch. I hook my iPod to my stereo and just let it run, I'd hate to change a CD now, and I'd really hate to listen to the 40 songs that go on the usual MP3 player.
For 399 my iPod has been totally worth it.
As for Appleworks, I do wish Apple would either make a better version or just get rid of it entirely. If you need to pound on the keys, textedit works rather well, but otherwise there's Word or OpenOffice. I think 159 isn't that bad for the entire office suite, and I don't think you can beat free for OpenOffice. As for the mouse, I really like Apple's Pro Mouse, but I have a Kensington to do heavier work on my machine that relies upon multiple buttons.
And while Dell does come with Word, most Windows machines come with WordStar which is as bad as AppleWorks. So most people don't get Word any how.
I would suggest that you get, at the library poor college student and all, the Missing Manual for OSX.

ratspg
Oct 8, 2003, 11:18 PM
im going to end this thread....

Nawlins:: its time to be quiet and stop complaining. complain ALLL you'd like, you messed up with research on whether or not the machine you bought comes with a word processor. BIGGG DEAL! the truth.... most people that have money to buy a powerbook or a "pro" machine, have the money to buy the extras as well. and if you don't like appleworks, which i NEVER use, nobody tells you to use it. and apple doesn't really need people complaining about features unique to a specific user. i don't care if the company is apple, dell, microsoft, or anyone... if i developed software, and a single person liked a 'kazaa interface' better, i wouldn't waste the time programming that in for him/her. get used to what you have, it's better anyways.

enjoy your powerbook, its a great machine... and it's a pro machine. if it didn't come with word, too bad. i own a recording studio... did my powerbook and G4 tower come with Pro Tools , and recording software, and plugins ,and audio cards? NO...but it's still a pro machine

just please don't complain, because from what you've stated, there is no reason....
and, by the way, im a college student too, it's no excuse, shoulda went with the ibook.
---------------
i just cant take so many ppl posting these nonsense threads anymore i HAD to reply!

iJon
Oct 8, 2003, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by ratspg
im going to end this thread....

Nawlins:: its time to be quiet and stop complaining. complain ALLL you'd like, you messed up with research on whether or not the machine you bought comes with a word processor. BIGGG DEAL! the truth.... most people that have money to buy a powerbook or a "pro" machine, have the money to buy the extras as well. and if you don't like appleworks, which i NEVER use, nobody tells you to use it. and apple doesn't really need people complaining about features unique to a specific user. i don't care if the company is apple, dell, microsoft, or anyone... if i developed software, and a single person liked a 'kazaa interface' better, i wouldn't waste the time programming that in for him/her. get used to what you have, it's better anyways.

enjoy your powerbook, its a great machine... and it's a pro machine. if it didn't come with word, too bad. i own a recording studio... did my powerbook and G4 tower come with Pro Tools , and recording software, and plugins ,and audio cards? NO...but it's still a pro machine

just please don't complain, because from what you've stated, there is no reason....
and, by the way, im a college student too, it's no excuse, shoulda went with the ibook.
---------------
i just cant take so many ppl posting these nonsense threads anymore i HAD to reply!
well said and i completly agree.

iJon

yamabushi
Oct 9, 2003, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by iJon
right now it isnt a good idea for apple to make their own processor. they will piss off microsoft and all they have to do is strip office away from apple and the mac os is in a world of hurt, even if apple makes their own, and microsoft could easily lock them out with formats not accesible to apple. ...
iJon

I disagree. Microsoft has hinted that they will not update Office on the Mac anytime soon. Apple should respond by developing an alternative, and perhaps even port it to Windows just as Sun did. In fact, they could even use OpenOffice as a starting point.

Microsoft is already in trouble for continuing to bully everyone else, so any punitive action they might take could open them up to further trouble. Even after their recent record dividend paid to shareholders, MS is still hording a huge amount cash. They have made it somewhat obvious that the cash is there in case huge fines and judgement awards need to be paid in the future.

billyboy
Oct 9, 2003, 05:22 AM
Why didnt you just ask how to make the best use of iTunes, ask about word processor bundles that come with various Macs etc. rather than kick off with a complaint that just shouted out, "This bloke has not been playing too long with his first ever Mac."?

Textedit is plenty good enough for writing to loved ones. If you want to tart up your dissertations so they can be read by Microsofty software, Save your documents in Appleworks as .rtf. Im a numb nutz languages student and a teacher too with a Mac in a Word world and worked out how to be compatible without spending too much. I also believe that office packages are so complex and the zillions of functions are so under used, and cheapo Appleworks, is in my experience plenty good enough for really snazzy work.

There is so much help out there for Macs and so many advantages to the Apple way of doing things, I just think you need to back off and relax a bit.

DHagan4755
Oct 9, 2003, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by Nawlins AppleWorks does not let me save in the .doc format, only in the .cwk.doc format, which won't open on any version of Microsoft Word.You can save in the .doc file format in AppleWorks. I just fired up the version I have on my Mac, version 6.2.7 for Mac OS X, and when you do a Save As, at the bottom of the Save As window there is a File Format pop-up window where you can choose to save it in a variety of different Word versions.

Originally posted by Nawlins arrange the songs so the artist appears before song titlesSimple solution, not evident. Take the artist column header (where it says "Artist") and click, hold, and drag the column over (it will appear transparent grey), and let go where you want the column. In this case before your song column. Capiche?

DillHarris
Oct 9, 2003, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Nawlins
iJon:

I'm not mad because I spent $40 on AppleWorks. I'm mad because AppleWorks sucks...

... and if you had bought a crappy pee cee, it woulda come with M$ Works, which really freakin blows, and you would have to spend 150 bucks to upgrade to office also... it's just a vicious world out there...

Gus
Oct 9, 2003, 09:30 AM
That's the way to help people, call them names, tell them they are stupid and complaining and then poke at thedm a little more. What, are you all about 13?, becuase you're acting like it.

He has a point, whether you'd like to admist it or not. There SHOULD be a decent word processor on Apple's Power products. There is no rationale for leaving it off except to generate more revenue for either Word or AppleWorks. Why should someone who just spent much more for a "pro" machine get less of a software package than the consumer? I know, I know, you get Graphic Converter and other stuff with the Powerbook. Whoopty-friggin'-do. You are also wrong about how everybody that buys a pro machine is buying it for pro reasons. Many people buy the best they can afford at the time they purchase to avoid having to buy a computer every single year. They may only be using it for surfing and gaming, but they want to be able to keep the machine for a while. THEY are the ones who need the WP. And buying more software (BASIC software at that) after you just dropped a load for the machne is stupid. Yes, there are free alternatives, but not all purchasers of "pro" products are actually pro users. They may not know, unlike all of you out there who seem to know everything about it and get annoyed when anyone has to ask a question from you all-mighty Mac Geeks.

Take it easy on new people, why don't you?

Regards,
Gus

Horrortaxi
Oct 9, 2003, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by yamabushi
I disagree. Microsoft has hinted that they will not update Office on the Mac anytime soon.

Which is really no big loss. We have a version that runs native in OS X and that's all we need. How many new features can there possibly be left to add. I don't know if there have been any significant additions to Office since 1995--maybe earlier. As far as writing a letter goes, TextEdit is adequate and easy to use. AppleWorks is also adequate though I'm not a big fan. I'd welcome an Apple-designed office suite that had all the typical Apple features (ease of use, streamlined, integration with other apps) but without all the Microsoft bloat.

Nawlins, I've read over your original post again and I think you really need to learn to use your computer. That's what 90% of your complaints seem to stem from. The other 10% involve a reality check.

bertagert
Oct 9, 2003, 12:47 PM
Man, you guys really go off on people instead of offering solutions.

Nawlins,

Itunes:
You like the kazaa feature. And thats what it is, a feature. If you start using itunes more, you'll find features in itunes you wish were in kazaa. It's a give-take thing when switching software. When you start with one brand, you'll get use to the way it works. Then, when you look at other brands, you'll find that your so use to knowing exactly where all the functions are on the first brand you tried that all the other types you try seem backwards. This is how MS got people hooked on word.

Appleworks/MS Office:
Same as the itunes story above. However, I will say this. When you buy a windows PC, having MS Office installed is an option unless they "bundle" it in. Either way your paying for it. So, when you ordered your PB, you had an option to get MS Office as well. It didn't matter which platform you went with, you'll still have to pay for Office. As for your, "Apple should make a better word processor". That's like saying Dell should too. I do agree that Appleworks should be included with PowerMacs/Books. That one is beyond me that they don't include it. However, your post about Apple has much to gain and not much to lose on making their own word processor statement is wrong. MS Office is the standard. Not because its better or easy to use but because everyone has it. Not being able to see a word document that the majority of the word can is a problem. MS has Apple by the gonads on this and they know it. I don't see Apple making their own word processing software to compete against MS anytime soon. Look at Corel's word perfect. They tried to compete and now they're on their last straw.

Mouse:
Thats a user opinion if you like it or not. I know at work we get the Dell mouse standard with the machines. Currently, they sit in a box collecting dust because no one here likes them and we all basically use Logitech mice. Like people said above, a lot of mac users don't like the Apple mouse and buy one elsewhere.

Ipod:
Well as the owner of a new 15 gig, I don't don't understand how I could live without it. I use mine for backup as well (5 gigs worth of data). So I could never use a smaller hard dirve version. However, people like my mom and sister could so I see your point. I don't think Apple wants to get into that market because it will take away sales of the more profitable models. The only way I see it happening is if Apples ipod market share goes really low. Only time will tell on this one.

Delete Key:
I had a problem with it too. Again, this isn't Apple's fault. It's that your use to the windows keyboard. Give it a little time and when you go back to a windows keyboard you'll wonder why they have a backspace key.

So, to sum it up, I don't think your bashing Apple like a lot of people here think you are. It's just that switching isn't as easy as Apple makes it out to be because the OS and software are completely different beasts compared to windows versions. I personally think there are good and bads to both platforms. Its getting use to them thats th tricky part.

Abstract
Oct 9, 2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by yamabushi
I disagree. Microsoft has hinted that they will not update Office on the Mac anytime soon. Apple should respond by developing an alternative, and perhaps even port it to Windows just as Sun did. In fact, they could even use OpenOffice as a starting point.

Microsoft is already in trouble for continuing to bully everyone else, so any punitive action they might take could open them up to further trouble. Even after their recent record dividend paid to shareholders, MS is still hording a huge amount cash. They have made it somewhat obvious that the cash is there in case huge fines and judgement awards need to be paid in the future.

Firstly, AppleWorks really SHOULD have been included with the PB. I just bought a PB and didn't even realize that it wasn't included. I had always thought that it was. Its no big deal since you can get OfficeX for a huge edu discount, but I just wanted to give some support to Nawlins.

But secondly, if you don't have a digital camera or DV camera (whichever one you don't have), and you can't take advantage of iMovie or iPhoto, then its too bad. This is the software it came with, and if you couldn't take advantage of this software, and complain about it AFTER you bought your system, then why did you buy it to begin with? You knew you didn't have a DV camera before you bought your system, didn't you?

And about OfficeX: Isn't it supposed to get an update this coming Spring?

iJon
Oct 9, 2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by yamabushi
I disagree. Microsoft has hinted that they will not update Office on the Mac anytime soon. Apple should respond by developing an alternative, and perhaps even port it to Windows just as Sun did. In fact, they could even use OpenOffice as a starting point.

Microsoft is already in trouble for continuing to bully everyone else, so any punitive action they might take could open them up to further trouble. Even after their recent record dividend paid to shareholders, MS is still hording a huge amount cash. They have made it somewhat obvious that the cash is there in case huge fines and judgement awards need to be paid in the future.
microsoft has already announced they are in the works of the next version of office for mac and will be out soon after the new office for windows. they talked with the head of the MacBU at Microsoft in my macaddict and they talked about it.

iJon

bousozoku
Oct 9, 2003, 03:31 PM
Gus and bertagert:

I'm not sure either of you read the whole thread but you should see where Nawlins doesn't seem to care that we've been giving solutions--he just wants to complain at this point without searching for solutions.

Apple doesn't need to pre-install a word processing application. TextEdit works fine and there are something like 5 word processors available including MS Word and AppleWorks, which does much more. If Nisus wanted Nisus Writer on PowerBooks and PowerMacs, they should make a deal with Apple to have it pre-installed. Apple also doesn't need to create another word processor or dig up MacWrite.

I'm beginning to think that this person doesn't even have a PowerBook--he just wants to see how far people will jump.

electric
Oct 9, 2003, 04:57 PM
Nawlins

Take a moment and jot down the things you dislike about windows and compare them to your apple complaint list, be fair and then decide if you would be happier with one or the other. If you decide that the grass was greener on the windows side you can always sell your apple and get back into windows, apples have great resale value.

Apple owes nothing to anyone, they make an excellent product and that is why people buy and support them. In the OS 9 days I would try and convince people to use Macs, Now with OS X I just feel sorry for those who donít know about "the experience" and thatís what it has become... an experience.

bertagert
Oct 9, 2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by bousozoku
I'm not sure either of you read the whole thread but you should see where Nawlins doesn't seem to care that we've been giving solutions--he just wants to complain at this point without searching for solutions.
Actually I did read whole the thread. He didn't complain at all. He was voicing his opinion. They are two different things. It wasn't till someone said he was complaing that this thread went ary.

Anywho, lets put that in the past. As for the word processor thing, I have to disagree. My feeling is, if works is on the i macs/ibooks/emacs, why isn't it on the power line? I personally don't care because I don't use works (I use Office) but I can't figure out why Apple doesn't put it in there. A pro user types letters all the time. Just figured they'd throw it in. I'm sure there is some good reason for not including it but I can't figure it out.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 9, 2003, 05:30 PM
I think that when someone brings up what he thinks are valid issues and everyone jumps up his ass, that guy gets a bad impression of the Mac community.

iJon
Oct 9, 2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
I think that when someone brings up what he thinks are valid issues and everyone jumps up his ass, that guy gets a bad impression of the Mac community.
who cares, we arent a church. its not like he is going from prep to a thug or something. its a computer.

iJon

Gus
Oct 9, 2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by bertagert
Actually I did read whole the thread. He didn't complain at all. He was voicing his opinion. They are two different things. It wasn't till someone said he was complaing that this thread went ary.

Anywho, lets put that in the past. As for the word processor thing, I have to disagree. My feeling is, if works is on the i macs/ibooks/emacs, why isn't it on the power line? I personally don't care because I don't use works (I use Office) but I can't figure out why Apple doesn't put it in there. A pro user types letters all the time. Just figured they'd throw it in. I'm sure there is some good reason for not including it but I can't figure it out.

Yes, this is the point, exactly. If they put it in with the consumer machines, why not with the pros as well? You can't tell me that all people buying a PowerMac/Book already have a WP to put on the machine.

And like I said before, there ARE other alternatived for WP out there that are free, but not everybody buying a Mac will know that right off the bat. Many people who buy PowerBooks are former iBookk owners who just assume that if it is on a consumer machine then it should be on a pro machine as well. And yes, I have read the whole thread. I never post without reading everything through first.

Regards,
Gus