Panther Feature? 'Home on iPod' [Archive]

MacRumors

Oct 8, 2003, 05:38 PM

One reader (johnpg) notes a previously unadvertised feature of Panther which is detailed on Apple's Mac OS X mobility page (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/mobility/) called "Home on iPod".

Home away from home

Ever thought you could carry your home in the palm of your hands or in your pocket? You can. Panther's Home on iPod feature lets you store your home directory — files, folders, apps — on your iPod (or any FireWire hard drive) and take it with you wherever you go. When you find yourself near a Panther-equipped Mac, just plug in the iPod, log in, and you’re “home,” no matter where you happen to be. And when you return to your home computer, you can synchronize any changes you’ve made to your files by using File Sync, which automatically updates offline changes to your home directory.

This feature is reportedly not in the latest version of Panther (build 7B85)

While this feature is reportedly not in the latest version of Panther (build 7B85), it was first mentioned in this eWeek article in April which provided some of the first hints of Panther. According to eWeek's sources at that time, "one proposed feature will let users take home directories they've saved on peripherals and networks and use them for file access or securely log into a Mac running Panther.

arn

Oct 8, 2003, 05:40 PM

heh... it's actually been pulled since I posted it.

guess it's no longer in panther....

arn

rainman::|:|

Oct 8, 2003, 05:42 PM

thank god, i've been waiting for this! terrific apple... i wonder how they put this in without it being in latest builds? i can't wait to get to use this, take everything from work to home to work... hot damn...

:D

pnw

JoeCanadian

Oct 8, 2003, 05:44 PM

I followed the link to the Panther mobility site, but there is nothing about "Home on iPod" there.

arn

Oct 8, 2003, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by JoeCanadian
I followed the link to the Panther mobility site, but there is nothing about "Home on iPod" there.

It was just there. they pulled it seconds after I posted the story. I don't have it in cache anymore.

arn

beerguy

Oct 8, 2003, 05:46 PM

Actually I believe that a precedure for doing this under jaguar was posted on macosxhints.com

synergy

Oct 8, 2003, 05:47 PM

That would be a very slick feature.
Almost like Sun's whole Sunray thing with the Java card. Except with this you carry everything with you rather than leaving it on a server somewhere.

Will be a big selling point for business.

ZildjianKX

Oct 8, 2003, 05:51 PM

So the feature got pulled? Damn...

So I take it 7B85 is GM since its not suppose to have the feature? Oh the confusion...

Stella

Oct 8, 2003, 05:52 PM

Sounds good.

Shame its been pulled. Perhaps it will make its way into one of the minor updates after the initial Panther release.

Better not be restricted to Gen 3 iPods tho..!

shadowfax

Oct 8, 2003, 05:52 PM

of course, you could just put your home folder on your iPod. i wonder if it is smart enough not to include my music library in the home folder on my iPod. i have 15 GB of music on it, so having 2 instances of it would just ruin things in terms of being able to fit it on the iPod.

it would sure be nice for them to automate this, though. i would definitely use it.

sososowhat

Oct 8, 2003, 05:52 PM

Apple giveth
... and Apple taketh away

macMaestro

Oct 8, 2003, 05:52 PM

Wow. Just wow.

Apple appears to be getting sloppy about leaking things. First those G5 specs. Then all those BT mouse and keyboard stuff. Now this.

But this feature will be killer if it get's implemented.

arn

Oct 8, 2003, 05:53 PM

found it in my cache.

Posted a mirror here:

http://www.macrumors.com/downloads/applemobility.html

rainman::|:|

Oct 8, 2003, 05:53 PM

what a bastard! booo!

:( :mad:

why would this happen? i would think either it's a feature yet to be implemented, or it's some odd joke...

dammit.

pnw

cheesy

Oct 8, 2003, 05:54 PM

this sounds really cool, especially in places like businesses and schools where there are lots of computers.

nifty

i hope Apple decides to put it back in

Pedro Estarque

Oct 8, 2003, 05:55 PM

This seems such an easy thing for apple to do ( just tell the system your home directory is /ipod) and yet so useful that I can't understand why it didn't get to the final version.
maybe 10.3.1? 7CXX?

Deestar

Oct 8, 2003, 05:55 PM

It may be added in the rumoured 10.3.1 that will be released soon after Panther 10.3 is released.

;)

beerguy

Oct 8, 2003, 05:55 PM

I'm sure it was pulled because it's a huge security risk.

The iDisk offline syncing gives basically the same functionality without giving your CFO the ability to leave the company financials on a train somewhere.

shadowfax

Oct 8, 2003, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Deestar
It may be added in the rumoured 10.3.1 that will be released soon after Panther 10.3 is released.

;) hey, who's taking bets on how many 10.3.x's we'll have? 10.3.12? 15?

macMaestro

Oct 8, 2003, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by beerguy
I'm sure it was pulled because it's a huge security risk.

The iDisk offline syncing gives basically the same functionality without giving your CFO the ability to leave the company financials on a train somewhere.

But they could implement encryption...

You'd plug iPod in, it asks for password, you type password, and (to quote Steve) "Boom, just like that."

G4scott

Oct 8, 2003, 05:58 PM

This is awesome. Imagine, a business that uses Macs, and they buy all of their employees iPods for work use, and to use as a benefit to store music too. They can keep their work on the iPod, and use almost any computer in the company, and when they're not working they can listen to music...

catalystx

Oct 8, 2003, 06:00 PM

Apple really needs to get their web site managers better at keeping secrets. I guess we don't want that though, so on second thought they should hire a bunch of high school kids to run it! :)

cheesy

Oct 8, 2003, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by macMaestro
But they could implement encryption...

You'd plug iPod in, it asks for password, you type password, and (to quote Steve) "Boom, just like that."

File Vault

beerguy

Oct 8, 2003, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by macMaestro
But they could implement encryption...

You'd plug iPod in, it asks for password, you type password, and (to quote Steve) "Boom, just like that."

Real time encryption every time you do IO in your home directory? Better get that G6 ordered. :)

Booga

Oct 8, 2003, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by beerguy
I'm sure it was pulled because it's a huge security risk.

The iDisk offline syncing gives basically the same functionality without giving your CFO the ability to leave the company financials on a train somewhere.

And if it's encrypted, who cares? (Another great feature of Panther since the PGPDisk software kind of died. I used to require PGPDisk on any source code repository that resided on a laptop.)

greenstork

Oct 8, 2003, 06:02 PM

Maybe it was the folks at MacHack, hacking into the Akamai servers just to spite Apple. Oh..... errrr, wrong product announcement.

evilbert420

Oct 8, 2003, 06:03 PM

My bet is that we'll see it appear in .Mac

Apple's been actively listening to people's perceptions that .mac isn't worth it, and been 'piling on' the features this past year for .mac members. I'm thinking this is another great .mac "seller" for Apple.

applekid

Oct 8, 2003, 06:06 PM

If this becomes a feature for .Mac only, then I'm sold.

I've always wanted this kind of feature. It would definitely beat doing manual drag-n-drop backups that I perform to my iPod. And whenever I plan on buying a laptop, I can easily go mobile with my iPod! Hopefully this will stay in Panther!

Expand the iPod's uses! It's not just an MP3 player and it shouldn't be!

Freg3000

Oct 8, 2003, 06:08 PM

Uber-cool. I wonder how this slipped by though. Was it ever in any of the Panther builds?

macMaestro

Oct 8, 2003, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by catalystx
Apple really needs to get their web site managers better at keeping secrets. I guess we don't want that though, so on second thought they should hire a bunch of high school kids to run it! :)

Heck, High Schoolers would do better than whatever they got. If they're going to change their staff, I'd suggest 2nd graders.

SiliconAddict

Oct 8, 2003, 06:18 PM

Damn. That sounds like a sweet feature. Too bad. :(

centauratlas

Oct 8, 2003, 06:18 PM

This is a nice feature though (whenever it shows up).

It would be even nicer to have something like:

"home directory via Rendezvous" so that I could use any Mac in the house to access my home dir.

(I know you can with OS X server, but it is not a one-click setup and it should be).

GloverCom

Oct 8, 2003, 06:19 PM

Can't this be done with a simple Alias already?

I use Entourage and when I have my Microsoft Data folder aliased in my Home folder to the ACTUAL folder which is on my iPod so my email is will me whereever I go, on whatever Mac I'm on.

I haven't tried, but is it possible to alias the entire Home directory to an iPod?!?

-- Jeff Glover
-- http://www.ichatters.com

coumerelli

Oct 8, 2003, 06:27 PM

This is something that I had actually talked about to my wife and brother a few months ago as a good idea. I really hope this comes to fruition. :D

johnpg

Oct 8, 2003, 06:27 PM

I'm the one who submitted the story and I've been doing some investigating in 7B85.

Here's what I would have found.

It's the same technology used for the iDisk syncing.

/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/FileSync
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Resources
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/FileSync
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/Resources
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/Resources/English.lproj
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/Resources/English.lproj/Generic.rtf
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/Resources/English.lproj/Library.rtf
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/Resources/English.lproj/Software.rtf
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/Resources/iDiskGenericIcon.icns
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/Resources/iDiskOfflineIcon.icns
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/Resources/iDiskOnlineIcon.icns
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/Resources/iDiskSyncingIcon.icns
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/Resources/Info.plist
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/A/Resources/version.plist
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/FileSync.framework/Versions/Current

The MirrorAgent app has some references to the home directory:

$ strings MirrorAgent |grep -i home
Agent/home.c
home
inithome
outHome
inithomewithhome
inHome
checkHomeSupportsSymlinks
acquirehome
home->refcount >= 0
releasehome
Home "
verifyMirrorHomes
AcquireHomesForMirrorPair
ReleaseHomesForMirrorPair
home_alias
home_hasFingerprintFile
pkhome
packhome
pkhome != nil
unpackhome
home->alias
allocmirrorwithhome
isHomeDirectory
SFMirrorHomeDirectory
HOME

So the code is in Panther, but obviously not finished yet. They clearly didn't get it done and are probably planning on releasing it at a later time. Too bad, that would have been a big selling point for a lot of people. I just hope it doesn't turn out to be a 10.4 feature instead.

It would be great if you could (as someone suggested) have a rendezvous home folder, or at the very least a way to sync home folders between machines on a network without the firewire drive, and without a server. I'm sure this could be done by hacking around, but I'd like to see it built in and seamless.

Cheers,
John

rockman2023

Oct 8, 2003, 06:36 PM

Didnt we hear about a feature like this earlier this year??! I swear, a rumor like this came around before. I vaguely remember some tablet rumors floating around the same time.
Can anyone back me up on this one???

jettredmont

Oct 8, 2003, 06:36 PM

First of all, welcome to Pal.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030603132519.shtml

Second, it could be that this is being pulled because FileVault on the iPod might be slated to be fairly efficient, using the iPod's ARM procs to do the encryption instead of the main CPU (using the main CPU would be rather inefficient, expecially with the iPod procs sitting there idle ...)

If this is correct, then the reason this was pulled might be the delay of iPod's software update.

Also, if accurate, first-gen iPods might be excluded, at least from FileVault encryption. Anyone know what the various gens' processors were?

Oh, and, yes, I'd also hope that it is smart enough to skip vaulting your music files.

And, yes, you can use your iPod like a home directory as things stand right now (you can easily just make an alias and manually store your files on the iPod instead of the HD, and I believe you can mount your iPod as your home directory too). However, the description seems to indicate that you will be able to just plug your iPod in and be prompted to use the Mac without having to set up a user account for yourself. Presumably, you'd have to have *some* kind of user account for the Mac (being able to get local access to any machine just by carrying an iPod would be a *massive* security risk!), but switching the user home directory would be seamless and fall in line with the fast-user-switching paradigm.

tacomancini

Oct 8, 2003, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by rockman2023
Didnt we hear about a feature like this earlier this year??! I swear, a rumor like this came around before. I vaguely remember some tablet rumors floating around the same time.
Can anyone back me up on this one???

It was that shot of the box of a product called the pal. Something that allowed you to bring your computer with you, perhaps wirelessly. Maybe they are incorporating this idea into the ipod. I think it was the same idea... bringing your home folder with you..... it seemed to also have some link to .mac.

blueflame

Oct 8, 2003, 06:55 PM

mabye this is one of the rumored ipod perifria;s that will cost 129 dollars that was rumord here a few days ago. like an external somethingoranother. or mabye it wont be that high, but it still may be waiting for that? possible?
Andreas

rswift6505

Oct 8, 2003, 06:56 PM

This is a fairly simple, but can be dangerous, hack. Enable root, through net info manager, then, again through net info manager, change the directory of your home to wherever you want. Just remeber to use /Volumes/iPod/user/

illumin8

Oct 8, 2003, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by beerguy
Real time encryption every time you do IO in your home directory? Better get that G6 ordered. :)
How about real-time encryption every time you sync... Not that big of a deal; I bet even a G4 with Altivec optimization would scream. Altivec is wonderful for encrypting large data streams...

jimthorn

Oct 8, 2003, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by shadowfax
of course, you could just put your home folder on your iPod. i wonder if it is smart enough not to include my music library in the home folder on my iPod. i have 15 GB of music on it, so having 2 instances of it would just ruin things in terms of being able to fit it on the iPod.

it would sure be nice for them to automate this, though. i would definitely use it.

I completely agree. This would be a great feature. But like shadowfax, I was wondering about the Music Folder. I mean, if you autosync your iPod in iTunes, you already have it on the iPod. I'm sure very few of us could fit our music collection on our iPods twice.

But the fact that Apple is thinking along these lines makes me wonder if they're going to make the iPod even more of an integrated part of the Mac experience. Imagine, say, an iBook with no internal HD, but with a nice iPod-sized slot in the side. Pop in the iPod, and *snap*, it docks into the iBook. Work on your computer for a while, and then shut down and pull out the iPod and take it to school, work, etc. The iPod essentially becomes the "soul" of the Mac.

SoonToGetAMac

Oct 8, 2003, 07:13 PM

Browsing the panther info, and they didn't remove all traces of the Home of iPod feature., Just look at http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/systempreferences/, or the picture, where it asks you where the home directory should be.

macphoria

Oct 8, 2003, 07:14 PM

That is too bad, sounds like a cool feature. They could have kept it as optional feature that is not a default function.

Rincewind42

Oct 8, 2003, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by rswift6505
This is a fairly simple, but can be dangerous, hack. Enable root, through net info manager, then, again through net info manager, change the directory of your home to wherever you want. Just remeber to use /Volumes/iPod/user/

You don't need to enable root to do this. Just click the lock and enter an admin login/password and your set.

Almost nothing on Mac OS X requires you to enable the root login.

Snowy_River

Oct 8, 2003, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by beerguy
I'm sure it was pulled because it's a huge security risk.

The iDisk offline syncing gives basically the same functionality without giving your CFO the ability to leave the company financials on a train somewhere.

Well, I should hope that the CFO of a company would know better than to have the company financials sitting, unprotected, in his home directory. Better to keep them in a secure directory on the server, IYAM.

Snowy_River

Oct 8, 2003, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by jimthorn
I completely agree. This would be a great feature. But like shadowfax, I was wondering about the Music Folder. I mean, if you autosync your iPod in iTunes, you already have it on the iPod. I'm sure very few of us could fit our music collection on our iPods twice.

Well, I know that I couldn't. For that matter, much of the time I couldn't fit my home directory, sans music, on my iPod. Ah, the joy of big files...

However, if they enabled this, maybe what's holding it up is the ability to access your music from the music storage area on your iPod, so you can launch iTunes when you're logged into a remote machine, and still listen to all of your music. Hmm...

Snowy_River

Oct 8, 2003, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by SoonToGetAMac
Browsing the panther info, and they didn't remove all traces of the Home of iPod feature., Just look at http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/systempreferences/, or the picture, where it asks you where the home directory should be.

Well, this may not be what you think it is. I know that when I first got OS X I had several drives in my computer, and I didn't want my Home directory on the same drive as the System. Heretofore, you had to use a hack to move your Users folder to another drive (creating a virtual link to it on your System drive). Hopefully this image is really showing that you can now choose, with characteristic Mac simplicity, the location you want for your Home directory (even different people's Home directories on different drives??).

Snowy_River

Oct 8, 2003, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by macphoria
That is too bad, sounds like a cool feature. They could have kept it as optional feature that is not a default function.

Yes, but what if it's not done yet?

macphoria

Oct 8, 2003, 07:54 PM

Yes, but what if it's not done yet?
We'll know in about 16 days, won't we? ;)

Doctor Q

Oct 8, 2003, 07:55 PM

The pulled description makes it sound like you just plug in and log in. But I would hope that it only works if the administrator of the Mac had previously created a user whose home directory is iPod-based, so a login password could be assigned.

About the issue shadowfax raises, the user whose home directory is on the iPod would not have to be the user with the huge music library. You need two user names anyway, your regular one with the home directory on the Mac, and one with the home directory on the iPod, so the iPod-based one only needs the files you want to carry around in its home directory, while your big iTunes library would be in the home directory of your regular (Mac-based) user.

But that brings up another question: Why should the iPod store only one home directory, i.e., Volumes/iPod/user/? Will it be able to store /Volumes/iPod/users/myname1, /Volumes/iPod/users/myname2, etc.?

cbrantly

Oct 8, 2003, 07:57 PM

I think a lot of people are missing the point of this feature. It sounds more to me like you would have a copy of your home folder on your iPod...hence the File Sync feature. This means that you wouldn't have to work off of your iPod when you are at your own computer.

Another detail that a lot of people seem to have missed is that this isn't restricted to an iPod. The copy from Apple's website said "...or any FireWire hard drive" This means that it won't rely on the iPod processor or on any iPod Peripheral.

arn

Oct 8, 2003, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by cbrantly
Another detail that a lot of people seem to have missed is that this isn't restricted to an iPod. The copy from Apple's website said "...or any FireWire hard drive" This means that it won't rely on the iPod processor or on any iPod Peripheral.

excellent points...

arn

LimeLite

Oct 8, 2003, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by beerguy
I'm sure it was pulled because it's a huge security risk.

The iDisk offline syncing gives basically the same functionality without giving your CFO the ability to leave the company financials on a train somewhere.
Not quite. This would store your whole Home directory, the offline iDisk feature only syncs specific files. Remember, the iDisk is still only 100MB large.

DeusOmnis

Oct 8, 2003, 08:12 PM

I'm sure they'll notice and put it back. I mean, they pay attention to us, dont they?

rockman2023

Oct 8, 2003, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by tacomancini
It was that shot of the box of a product called the pal. Something that allowed you to bring your computer with you, perhaps wirelessly. Maybe they are incorporating this idea into the ipod. I think it was the same idea... bringing your home folder with you..... it seemed to also have some link to .mac.

Thanks for clearing that up jettredmont and tacomancini :D
I knew I remembered something like this.

Wonder Boy

Oct 8, 2003, 08:21 PM

maybe it will show up next year in 10.4!

130$ ready to go!

THIS IS A JOKE! ACTUALLY, THIS IS MORE OF A COMMENTARY CONCERNING THE RAPID/YEARLY DEPLOYMENT OF MAC OS's.

rainman::|:|

Oct 8, 2003, 08:24 PM

two points on previous posts. first off, on-the-fly file encryption exists, it's called file vault, and it's a major selling point of Panther. go check the site and see for yourself-- realtime encryption. so no waiting for a G6, you can do this on a G3. :rolleyes: that provides the security. there will be no problem protecting the data on the iPod, the problem is how to control this on the system-- should your computer allow itself to be taken over by a person's user information? should they have to enter a password to the computer itself before it lets them use it? should they have to "match" the machine and the iPod before hand, like Bluetooth? i can think of a lot of high-security areas where it would be undesirable to have a Mac that can be taken over by anyone with an iPod, circumventing all existing security software--

also, making symlinks to folders on your iPod is fine and good, provided you have your iPod plugged in-- otherwise the system won't boot without it. And of course, the destination computer would still not be able to use the iPod's home folder correctly... it would run from the user logged in, not the user on the iPod. defeats the purpose. When Apple gives us this feature, it will be with typical Apple simplicity, one click does anything you need-- switch to the iPod's user, sync, prepare the iPod to be ejected, etc. There's no way to hack this functionality.

pnw

Doctor Q

Oct 8, 2003, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
maybe it will show up next year in 10.4!

130$ ready to go! It must be pretty close to finished and working if they got far enough to produce that web site product description, which means that they won't wait a year to release it, which means that it will probably be in 10.3.x, which means that we Panther buyers will get it with a free upgrade. Save your $130 for an iSight!

Wonder Boy

Oct 8, 2003, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Q
Save your $130 for an iSight!

LOL. I wish i knew someone to to conference with. perhaps some more RAM?!

evolu

Oct 8, 2003, 08:54 PM

The pulled page also mentions being able to carry around applications. Therefore this feature is not limited to what's in the home folder, I'm sure you can adjust your prefs and select which folders are copied to the iPod and which are not...

Sounds like it syncs up like the new idisk does... It only syncs (in either direction) when a file has been modified.

the best will be sitting down at a desktop and having your FCP prefs and Logic Prefs there for you!

Makosuke

Oct 8, 2003, 09:12 PM

Considering that it was in both pre-release builds and promotional materials, I think it's a safe bet to assume that Apple originally intended to ship it with 10.3 but some technical issue delayed the feature. Maybe there was some other reason, but I'll go with a simple glitch that they decided to fix in a point update instead of delaying the whole release.

A thought about security: Since you can run OSX from any firewire HD anyway, so long as you have access to the firewire ports on a Mac, as far as I know you can boot the thing off an external drive anyway--just select it as the startup disk. You might be able to prevent that with an Open Firmware password, but as has been pointed out oh-so-many-times, if someone has urestricted physical access to your computer, they can do pretty much anything they want.

That said, surely all it'd take is requiring some sort of password for the computer before it would allow an external Home directory to provide a reasonable level of security. I seem to remember seeing a mention of a new "system password" in 10.3 related to file vault, so perhaps you could require that, or just have an optional setting for admin users to restrict or grant access.

Also, for those picturing walking around a company with your home directory on an iPod so you can use any computer in the office, you can already do that via an OSX server without carrying anything. You could bring the iPod home, of course, which would make telecommuting easier.

Very cool feature even if I don't end up using it, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

e-coli

Oct 8, 2003, 09:24 PM

I would NEVER want this feature unless there was some pretty hefty duty security encryption. What if someone stole your iPod? It would be a disaster.

Flynn

Oct 8, 2003, 09:27 PM

Phil Of Mac

Oct 8, 2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by beerguy
I'm sure it was pulled because it's a huge security risk.

The iDisk offline syncing gives basically the same functionality without giving your CFO the ability to leave the company financials on a train somewhere.

That's the CFO's fault. The technology exists for him to be an insecure moron even without this. I think they just couldn't make the feature stable enough in time so they left it out.

coumerelli

Oct 8, 2003, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by e-coli
I would NEVER want this feature unless there was some pretty hefty duty security encryption. What if someone stole your iPod? It would be a disaster.

But how would it be a disaster? Walk thru the process - your mac/home folder - duplicate some/all folder onto external drive/iPod - take it to another computer to do work with a client - return to home/office and sync changes made. Even if you lose the drive, you've only lost a day's work - granted, sometimes that could be priceless. :rolleyes: ;)

Also to jimthorn - you mention the problem of having your music on your iPod twice because of space? I know some home folders are in excess of 100 GIG. How's THAT going to fit neatly on an iPod. I know though that it's not limited to iPods - thankfully.:D

Phil Of Mac

Oct 8, 2003, 09:59 PM

cheesy

Oct 8, 2003, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by coumerelli
But how would it be a disaster? Walk thru the process - your mac/home folder - duplicate some/all folder onto external drive/iPod - take it to another computer to do work with a client - return to home/office and sync changes made. Even if you lose the drive, you've only lost a day's work - granted, sometimes that could be priceless. :rolleyes: ;)

Also to jimthorn - you mention the problem of having your music on your iPod twice because of space? I know some home folders are in excess of 100 GIG. How's THAT going to fit neatly on an iPod. I know though that it's not limited to iPods - thankfully.:D

note he mentioned he wouldn't use it unless there was heavy duty encryption. he's not worried about losing his work, he's worried about someone else gaining access to his email/files/pr0n/etc

Rincewind42

Oct 8, 2003, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Well, this may not be what you think it is. I know that when I first got OS X I had several drives in my computer, and I didn't want my Home directory on the same drive as the System. Heretofore, you had to use a hack to move your Users folder to another drive (creating a virtual link to it on your System drive). Hopefully this image is really showing that you can now choose, with characteristic Mac simplicity, the location you want for your Home directory (even different people's Home directories on different drives??).

Actually, the recommended procedure is to change it using NetInfoManager. And as for the ability to select the location of your home folder, that does not exist in Panther unless they decided to add it after 7B74 (sure...).

coumerelli

Oct 8, 2003, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by cheesy
note he mentioned he wouldn't use it unless there was heavy duty encryption. he's not worried about losing his work, he's worried about someone else gaining access to his email/files/pr0n/etc

right, and if you did anything like that without the filevault then you're just plain dumb. ;)

It's called common sense - security

And I can't imagine a company (apple) presenting a feature like this without considering the possibilities for compromising sensitive information

[Edited for additional comment]

LimeiBook86

Oct 8, 2003, 10:28 PM

Yes! I love being a .Mac member. This Pal idea sounds good :p Maybe Pal will be an Apple tamagotchi, hahaha that gives me an idea for a comic...:cool: i'll be back, <evil laugh>

RogueLdr

Oct 8, 2003, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by evolu
The pulled page also mentions being able to carry around applications. Therefore this feature is not limited to what's in the home folder, I'm sure you can adjust your prefs and select which folders are copied to the iPod and which are not...

Sounds like it syncs up like the new idisk does... It only syncs (in either direction) when a file has been modified.

the best will be sitting down at a desktop and having your FCP prefs and Logic Prefs there for you!

But you can install applications directly into your home folder...I mean, there is an Applications folder there by default, right? Although even though I've installed an app or two there, I must admit that I'm not completely sure what, if any, other files are put into the main "Library" folder for what applications.

Can anyone answer whether an app installed in your Applications folder in your Home directory puts its Library items in the Home Library? That seems to me to be the most important consideration for application portablility by way of Home directory syncing. Although I've been wrong before.

e-coli

Oct 8, 2003, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
It's not a matter of that, it's a matter of someone else getting access to his pr0n!

hahaha...no prOn on the iPod, unfortunately.

But it's the files I'm worried about. Bank account info, online logins and passwords, my 401k and IRA info...you get the picture (just not quite the picture you were thinking) ;)

macguymike

Oct 8, 2003, 11:24 PM

Didn't Steve announce something like this in his keynote at MWSF??

I could have sworn he did. Anyone still have the video of that?

I know I've heard this somewhere before...

dbunder

Oct 9, 2003, 01:19 AM

while the home on ipod feature would be nice for convenience, there's nothing stopping us from manually transferring our homedirs to our ipods. a little bit hackier, but essentially the same. and who's to say that the feature won't be added to panther or new ipod software in the future? i just might not be done in time for the initail release of panther. :p

the future

Oct 9, 2003, 02:59 AM

Maybe I'm missing something here, and in this case someone please correct me, but can't you do something like this already with Carbon Copy Cloner? Clone your HD to an external Firewire drive, take it with you, connect it to another Mac and boot from the Firewire HD... right?

cheesy

Oct 9, 2003, 03:12 AM

Thats the entire hard drive, not just your home folder, MUCH larger size

the future

Oct 9, 2003, 04:53 AM

Originally posted by cheesy
Thats the entire hard drive, not just your home folder, MUCH larger size

That's true, of course, but I think this is the only way to be really able to work with your stuff. If you have just your home folder and log on to a different Mac and for example want to open a Photoshop file and the other Mac hasn't Photoshop installed, you're screwed, right?

lok

Oct 9, 2003, 05:41 AM

Check this page out.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/systempreferences/

Scroll to the bottom.
There is an option for you to choose where to store your home folder.

This might be the Home on iPod thing...

http://a128.g.akamai.net/7/128/51/a9df224fe6e0a2/www.apple.com/macosx/features/systempreferences/images/accounts100303.jpg

MobileAccount

Oct 9, 2003, 08:04 AM

Look at the server version:

MobileAccount

Oct 9, 2003, 08:05 AM

Found here, and zoom in on downloaded on site .pdf file

MobileAccount

Oct 9, 2003, 08:09 AM

Nice for students i think!

Also PAL is nice, software for non 10.3 mac's?

Linked together with .Mac and here we go another level deeper!

recneps

Oct 9, 2003, 10:12 AM

So, there was this rumor a while ago (before they updated the iPods to the "dock connector" version), and though far out, still pretty cool:

An iPod and bluetooth mouse all in one... The idea being that whenever you found yourself in front of a Mac OS X enabled computer, your iPod could also be used as your mouse, and when you "linked up" it would also be your Home director/files.

I believe the rumor stated that it would also be a cell phone, have a color screen, and probably write a senior thesis for you (no research required).

Nonetheless, it is a rather nifty idea to sync an iPod up with whatever computer you're using... Or perhaps get to a point where similar to systems that "netBoot"--you boot the computer with "you."

scottwat

Oct 9, 2003, 10:34 AM

From the sounds and personal hopes could this possibly give you roaming user account on your iPod and any Mac with something set perhaps directory access the same way you enable netinfo from a server would allow you to log on as you. and have your home on the iPod. So I could connect to a lab computer and be me without setting a user on the computer, obviously a security risk but surely could be disabled with something like directory access. But in any computer situation unless you use openfirmware or bios password on a pc, you could boot from startup disk and access anything not encrypted. So this would be very welcomed for: Schools, universities, very cool companies that don't worry so much about direct access to the computer. The problem I see is that the ipod software unless already updated would need to accomodate the music folder somehow. Personally I would like to have a user scheme on the ipod and have the music accessed from the user home folder on the ipod. Doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to implement. Of course you would have to have a streamlined way to eliminate some of the junk in most users music folders, or any folder for that matter. Or Just say if you want to use this feature your home dir can't be bigger than your ipod.

SeaFox

Oct 9, 2003, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by applekid
I've always wanted this kind of feature. It would definitely beat doing manual drag-n-drop backups that I perform to my iPod. And whenever I plan on buying a laptop, I can easily go mobile with my iPod! Hopefully this will stay in Panther!

Wasn't there a way to do this with AppleScript back in the Classic MacOS? I sem to remember folder syncronization in there somewhere.

SeaFox

Oct 9, 2003, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by LimeLite
Not quite. This would store your whole Home directory, the offline iDisk feature only syncs specific files. Remember, the iDisk is still only 100MB large.

You can buy more space.

cheesy

Oct 9, 2003, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by recneps
So, there was this rumor a while ago (before they updated the iPods to the "dock connector" version), and though far out, still pretty cool:

An iPod and bluetooth mouse all in one... The idea being that whenever you found yourself in front of a Mac OS X enabled computer, your iPod could also be used as your mouse, and when you "linked up" it would also be your Home director/files.

I believe the rumor stated that it would also be a cell phone, have a color screen, and probably write a senior thesis for you (no research required).

Nonetheless, it is a rather nifty idea to sync an iPod up with whatever computer you're using... Or perhaps get to a point where similar to systems that "netBoot"--you boot the computer with "you."

Thats probably THE dumbest rumor I've heard...

SeaFox

Oct 9, 2003, 11:28 AM

While this feature sounds neat I have to ask...

What about applications? The stolen documents when I lose my iPod is bad enough. But what about the security risk of having a user run whatever applications are inside his home directory?

It would allow a university student to run an app he has but the school doesn't on their computers. Oh, look. the new wave in money saving for schools: students must provide their own copy of Word to write term papers with. :rolleyes:

But the student could also run Return to Castle Wolfenstein on the lab machines too.

An employee could run a program that causes network stability problems or hack company security.

Also, concerning the music library thing: There could be an iPod firmware release allowing the music player to access the music library from the home directory instead of its own area. But the FileVault encription could get in the way, unless we have the iPod decrypting it, too. But then the password would have to be on the iPod somewhere unless you wanted to enter it whenever you turned your iPod on (what a hassle). Also, this would make it real easy to pirate music between Macs, no?

scottwat

Oct 9, 2003, 11:43 AM

Piracy is already super easy from anything, where there is a will there is always going to be a way. As for apps, anyone that has a cd or a zip(gasp do they still make those) disk, or even yes a floppy disk could run apps. Or even over a web connection or download them from ftp, www, etc. There is no stopping someone that doesn't want to be stopped, so why not make the functionality and allow the admin to restrict it as they see fit. Mac's have always been by default an open book and easy to access. {The perfect home computer} Now ontop of that we have a great set of security protocols and programs we can use as we need them.

Phil Of Mac

Oct 9, 2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by cheesy
Thats probably THE dumbest rumor I've heard...

I think it was a parody, comrade!

cheesy

Oct 9, 2003, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
I think it was a parody, comrade!

its still dumb

oldwatery

Oct 9, 2003, 12:57 PM

I really hope that they reinstate this feature. Forget the security and piracy issues....these can all be dealt with. The function will enhance the usability of the iPod to a huge degree. And does it ever need that. My Gen 3 pod is not the item I had hoped for especially with it's lousy battery life and poor implementation of iTunes (no cross fades, gaps between tracks etc). Not to mention that almost 6 months after its debut there are still virtually no usefull accessories or peripherals available for it. Come on Apple finish what you started and give your customers a complete solution not another incomplete dream!

LimeLite

Oct 9, 2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by SeaFox
You can buy more space.
That still doesn't make it practical at all. With all of my music and stuff, my home directory is often larger than 10GB, even if you could buy that much in a .Mac account, it would be really expensive.

SeaFox

Oct 9, 2003, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by LimeLite
That still doesn't make it practical at all. With all of my music and stuff, my home directory is often larger than 10GB, even if you could buy that much in a .Mac account, it would be really expensive.

Plus, apps probably wouldn't run over an internet connection like that. But it would work okay for documents for the most part. Although some apps have probelms with iDisk. If I'm working in Word and try to save a new documant directly to my iDisk it wont work if I don't have my u/p entered in the Mac's preferences. Even though I mounted the iDisk from the Finder before trying the save. So when I'm at a lab at school I have to save the document to the desktop and then manually copy it to the iDisk. But I can open existing documents fine.

Makes me wonder if Word would work with a mounted, iPod-based home directory.

shadowfax

Oct 9, 2003, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by SeaFox
Plus, apps probably wouldn't run over an internet connection like that. But it would work okay for documents for the most part. Although some apps have probelms with iDisk. If I'm working in Word and try to save a new documant directly to my iDisk it wont work if I don't have my u/p entered in the Mac's preferences. Even though I mounted the iDisk from the Finder before trying the save. So when I'm at a lab at school I have to save the document to the desktop and then manually copy it to the iDisk. But I can open existing documents fine.

Makes me wonder if Word would work with a mounted, iPod-based home directory. why? an iDisk is not a device per se. in windows, you can't download a file directly from the internet to a removable drive (like a floppy disk). it seems like the same sort of thing that they wouldn't allow you to save straight to an iDisk rather than copy to it or something. but a Firewire drive functions exactly the same as the hard drive. it is a hard drive. you should be able to save to it just like a second hard drive on your computer.

demagalhaes

Oct 10, 2003, 12:36 AM

i bet that feature is going to be a part of the 16th event!!!! sure why drop it, and is a thing that mac user can do with their ipods and win users don t... or you think that win users will have the same connectivity with their pods and pcss..... i don t!

visor

Oct 10, 2003, 04:11 AM

I've been heating my living room with the iPod whle acually trying to use it as a firewire HD.
It's way to slow, and I think it will evantually break while on full time use because the HD isn't meant to be running all of the time, completely differnet design.

It would be great though to have it on normal FW HD's.

hayesk

Oct 10, 2003, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by SeaFox
While this feature sounds neat I have to ask...

What about applications? The stolen documents when I lose my iPod is bad enough. But what about the security risk of having a user run whatever applications are inside his home directory?

Even if you didn't have remote home dirs, any student could download an app from an FTP server or web site and run it.

However, it could all be prevented if you can set a permission to only allow apps to be run from the Applications directory.

arn

Oct 10, 2003, 03:15 PM

Someone just let me know:

The text is still on Apple Australia's site:

http://www.apple.com.au/macosx/features/mobility/

Google cache (in case the previous link gets pulled):

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:FZrGbiBDOpEJ:www.apple.com.au/macosx/features/mobility/+%22home+on+ipod%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

sumsugar

Oct 10, 2003, 08:09 PM

This feature caught my eye and all of a sudden it hit me. This feature would be the ultimate answer for file backup and synchronization. I always sync my iBook with my desktop since I work on the road from time to time. I also always make sure I have a backup of all files on a remote disk or firewire hard drive. This could answer all those issues and make it as simple as it is when I now sync my palm, i.e. get back in the office, slip the iPod in the dock and it syncs a mobile "home folder" of which gets synchronized with the iBook and the G4 and back and forth and round and round we go.
This would be fantastic.