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lewdvig
Oct 8, 2003, 07:46 PM
I am trying to figure out if its worth delaying a Mac purchase until I know for sure what new goodies are in the pipe for the next month. I had to sell my beloved dual G4 because no one wants to buy PCs (I have lots of those that I don't want). Cash is better than a basement full of computers. Eventually I will be Windows free...

So I have to plan my next Mac purchase.

In particular, the next rev of the iBook looks like it could be cool. My guess:

The latest IBM 750 processor at 1.1 GHz and 900 MHz.
DDR memory at 333 Mhz (PC2700) 256 or 512mb (1gb max)
Combo on low end + Superdive on top of the line models
USB 2.0 and FW400 (no 800)
RADEON 9000 Mobility 64 and 32 meg
40 and 60 GB drives
ships with Panther
silver/chrome translucent casing

November 15 availability

Anyone else have some guesses?

Gus
Oct 8, 2003, 08:42 PM
Well that looks fairly reasonable, but with those specs, it would be a better machine (on paper) than the brand-spanking-new G4 12" PB. I know there is a difference between G3 and G4, but the 750 FX is supposed to be one fast processor. I just couldn't see how Apple could keep the iBook price point the same with those specs and not destroy the 12" PB sales.

Regards,
Gus

alxths
Oct 8, 2003, 09:30 PM
I really wouldn't expect anything outstanding in the ibook line until G5 Powerbooks are released.
Maybe they'll take advantage of the more effecient processers to provide better battery life and smaller enclosures, but I really am not expecting any significant speed bumps in the line... Which would be unfortunate because there'd be a lot of potential going to waste because of moto's inability to keep up with the times...

lewdvig
Oct 8, 2003, 09:30 PM
I think that the Superdrive would be smart in this segment. But maybe that is asking too much.

No Bluetooth, smaller drives, and no altivec should be enough to differentiate.

GigaWire
Oct 9, 2003, 12:07 AM
The next iBook, though it may receive a nice new black exterior, will not have anything as exotic as a Superdrive. It makes no sense. Really, have you ever tried editing video with an iBook? Not what I'd call family fun. What will happen: USB 2.0, BT (option), Airport Extreme, larger HD, faster Combo drive, better vid card. Maybe a case redesign, but more like some type of refresh. After all the design was recently refreshed for the 900 mHz books. The purpose of an iBook is writing papers, surfing the internet, listening to music, and watching videos. Don't look for impressive hardware in this machine...ever.

benixau
Oct 9, 2003, 12:37 AM
i think the ibook will stay in white - like all of the other consumer machines.
however i think it will, as said above, recieve BT as a BTO option AP-X (come on, even the eMacs have this now) a max 60GB HDD and an ATi video card (possibly the same one the old 15"Ti's had with 32MB video RAM (never 64 and not 16 due to QE)
I expect that may change to a pb-like system for upgradde to allow for a non-flexi keyboard and that they will use that to differentiate between the old and new models. old=flexi, new=stiffy

lewdvig
Oct 9, 2003, 02:59 PM
I don't think those specs are too powerful at all. The current iBook is dangerously close to being a doorstop. They are sooo anemic.

HP, Tosh and DELL are bringing the DVD burners in laptops downstream.

If I am a kid with 1000-1500 to spend, the current iBooks are pretty weak compared to some of the Centrinos that are in this price range now. Lets face it, if you can play games than you might as well be able to do all the cool media stuff Macs are supposed to be able to do - including burning DVDs.

If Apple are smart they could make a big deal about being the first company to offer DVD burners in laptops designed for school kids.

I think the next rev will be a big departure. I think it has to be.

I only use bluetooth for syncing my phone. Phones designed for kids usually do not have Bluetooth, so I am not sure I agree that it belongs in an iBook.

eMac only has it because it shares a mobo with the 12" PB.:D

hugemullens
Oct 9, 2003, 03:28 PM
The ibook is more powerful than you think, but i agree, centrino's are an example of intel getting it right, but you still have to use windows :( I would take the ibook for OS X, i mean after all, what do you spend hours interfacing with, fighting with, and tearing your hair out, the processor or the OS.

tutubibi
Oct 9, 2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by lewdvig
I think that the Superdrive would be smart in this segment. But maybe that is asking too much.

No Bluetooth, smaller drives, and no altivec should be enough to differentiate.

G3 = no Superdrive.

I expect iBook update to include USB 2.0, Airport extreme and speed bump by 100 MHz. Bluetooth is possibility. Maybe a slight drop in the price.

tutubibi
Oct 9, 2003, 03:40 PM
I would actually prefer Apple to rename existing iBook to eBook and do slight spec update with small price drop.

Then, introduce new iBook with low-end G4 processor (700-900 MHz) that would be capable of Superdrive. Price new iBook between eBook and PowerBook and Apple has perfect home notebook.

This would be analog to eMac/iMac on the desktop side.

iPC
Oct 9, 2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by hugemullens
The ibook is more powerful than you think, but i agree, centrino's are an example of intel getting it right, but you still have to use windows :( I would take the ibook for OS X, i mean after all, what do you spend hours interfacing with, fighting with, and tearing your hair out, the processor or the OS.
That is why so many of us run a BSD/Linux variant of some sort. You are not locked into Windows with the x86 processor line. Just as I am not locked into OS X or OS 9 on my iBook. In fact, my IBM ThinkPad (P3 500MHz laptop) has had linux on it since the day after I bought it. :cool:

MacUser1
Oct 9, 2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by GigaWire
After all the design was recently refreshed for the 900 mHz books.
Was the design of the iBook actually refreshed? I can't remember.

On a side note, i think the iBook will get a Slot-Loading Combo Drive, other than that...i have no idea.

lewdvig
Oct 9, 2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by tutubibi
I would actually prefer Apple to rename existing iBook to eBook and do slight spec update with small price drop.

Then, introduce new iBook with low-end G4 processor (700-900 MHz) that would be capable of Superdrive. Price new iBook between eBook and PowerBook and Apple has perfect home notebook.

This would be analog to eMac/iMac on the desktop side.

Damn fine idea!

I think I am going to install BSD on my P4M until I get a new Mac.

:( I have a 120GB drive pulled from the G4 I just sold with my iTunes library and 100gb of DV home videos that I would be able to access til I get a Mac.

QCassidy352
Oct 9, 2003, 05:31 PM
Having been using an ibook 900 up until last week, let me tell you first that they are not as weak as some here seem to believe. Actually, they are quite snappy at almost everything.

Originally posted by lewdvig

The latest IBM 750 processor at 1.1 GHz and 900 MHz.
DDR memory at 333 Mhz (PC2700) 256 or 512mb (1gb max)
Combo on low end + Superdive on top of the line models
USB 2.0 and FW400 (no 800)
RADEON 9000 Mobility 64 and 32 meg
40 and 60 GB drives
ships with Panther
silver/chrome translucent casing


With regard to those specs...
Processor: yeah, maybe. But no altivec.
RAM: I doubt both DDR and a 1 gb max. DDR would really just be for show on a G3 with a 100 mhz bus. Might make a difference if the new G3 has a 200 mhz bus... but I still don't think we'll see DDR.
Superdrive: NO. Not until the ibook has a G4 or G3+altivec equivalent, which will not be this revision.
USB 2: yes, almost certainly.
Graphics: maybe a Radeon 9000 32 mb; that would be quite nice. There will not be a 64 meg option in an ibook with the 12" PB has only 32.
Drives: yes, as you say.
Panther: of course
Casing: anyone's guess!
And you forgot to mention airport extreme, which will be adopted so that the entire line is on one standard.

Gus
Oct 9, 2003, 05:42 PM
G3=no superdrive?

Not true. You can use the superdrive with a G3, but it is far slower. There are companies that will install an internal superdrive in place of your stock one on an iBook.

I wouldn't exactly say that the iBook 900 was revised, it just got cheaper plastic on the inside of the case.

Regards,
Gus

Makosuke
Oct 9, 2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Gus
G3=no superdrive?

Not true. You can use the superdrive with a G3, but it is far slower. There are companies that will install an internal superdrive in place of your stock one on an iBook. Although it's quite possible to author a DVD with a G3 processor (heck, you could do it with a 604 if you really wanted), I also think that Apple's not going to put a Superdrive in anything without Altivec--it'd be horribly slow, so Apple's just not going to do it.

Once the iBooks go G4 (or any other Altivec-equipped chip), then Apple'll probably think about it.

I like the eBook/iBook theory--that'd be a very cool way to offer both a really cheap laptop and something in the midrange for people not willing to fork out for a PowerBook.

crazzyeddie
Oct 9, 2003, 06:45 PM
The biggest issues with including a superdrive is that iDVD does not support machines without a G4... therefore you would have a DVD burner but wouldnt be able to author any DVD's for it (with included software at least).

tutubibi
Oct 9, 2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by Gus
G3=no superdrive?

Not true. You can use the superdrive with a G3, but it is far slower. There are companies that will install an internal superdrive in place of your stock one on an iBook.

I wouldn't exactly say that the iBook 900 was revised, it just got cheaper plastic on the inside of the case.

Regards,
Gus

What I meant is that Apple will not put Superdrive in G3 machine. Anybody tried to do MPEG2 encoding on G3?
I think that ratio is 20:1 (20 hours to encode 1 hour of video) while G4 is up to 5:1 depending on machine.

Plutoniq
Oct 10, 2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by tutubibi
What I meant is that Apple will not put Superdrive in G3 machine. Anybody tried to do MPEG2 encoding on G3?
I think that ratio is 20:1 (20 hours to encode 1 hour of video) while G4 is up to 5:1 depending on machine.

But this is assuming that a DVD-R burner is only necessary for people involved with video production. That people only burn DVD movies with Superdrives?

DVD-R/RW is relevant to everybody that owns a computer for archiving/backup ther own personal data. You don't need to use iDVD for that, Toast will suffice just as well. As far as a G3 being "too slow" for burning DVD-R/RW media....... this is just plain stupid. The speed of the drive "itself" is the only thing that determines that.........

That aside, I still don't think they will put a Superdrive in the upcoming Ibooks, but not because of any hardware issue.

QCassidy352
Oct 10, 2003, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by Makosuke
Although it's quite possible to author a DVD with a G3 processor (heck, you could do it with a 604 if you really wanted), I also think that Apple's not going to put a Superdrive in anything without Altivec--it'd be horribly slow, so Apple's just not going to do it.

Once the iBooks go G4 (or any other Altivec-equipped chip), then Apple'll probably think about it.

I like the eBook/iBook theory--that'd be a very cool way to offer both a really cheap laptop and something in the midrange for people not willing to fork out for a PowerBook.

right, this is what I meant. Even though it's technically possible, there's no way Apple is going to include a superdrive on a G3. Can you imagine how angry it would make switchers to find out that their "superdrive equiped" laptop took that much time to actually burn a DVD? It would practically seem like false advertising.

tutubibi
Oct 10, 2003, 11:13 AM
Somewhat off topic, but since we are discussing Superdrive and G3s:

Anybody tried to make DVDs with G3, external DVD-R drive and BitVice G3 MPEG2 encoder or Toast 6?
How long it takes to encode to MPEG2?

cubist
Oct 10, 2003, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by lewdvig
I have a 120GB drive pulled from the G4 I just sold with my iTunes library and 100gb of DV home videos that I would be able to access til I get a Mac.

Get an external firewire case for it. Then you can use it with your iBook until you have enough money for the dual 2.4GHz PowerMac G5.

lewdvig
Oct 13, 2003, 12:02 AM
I have an iBook right now. 700MHz iBook that I am selling for my sister. Nice.

The thought of a faster version has me interested.

My sisters new 12" PB has me more convinced than ever that the 12" PB is just a souped up iBook. She says she can not notice any major spped improvements over the 700MHz Ibook she is getting rid of...

Squire
Oct 13, 2003, 01:37 AM
Why hasn't Apple gotten into the ultra-portable arena? (Or sub-ultra-portable, or whatever.) How many of those tiny Sony and Fujitsu laptops are being sold? That, in my opinion, is a segment they have to move into. Mind you, I saw a 12" PB the other day for the first time and they ARE small...and full-featured. But how about a 10" iBook with a million hours of battery life? Some people wouldn't mind carrying around an optical drive every now and then.

Squire

QCassidy352
Oct 13, 2003, 02:29 AM
[i]My sisters new 12" PB has me more convinced than ever that the 12" PB is just a souped up iBook. She says she can not notice any major spped improvements over the 700MHz Ibook she is getting rid of... [/B]

you've got to be kidding me... I notice a big difference between my 1 Ghz 12" Albook and the 900 mhz ibook it replaced.

Comparing the speed of your sister's ibook to the 12" PB...
700 mhz G3 -- 1 Ghz G4
100 mhz bus -- 133 mhz bus
SDRAM (max of 640) -- DDR RAM (max of 1.2 gigs)
*old* 16 meg Mobility Radeon -- 32 meg geforce 5200go

Those are HUGE differences... especially the first one of course.

This is no knock on the ibook - I've had two, and loved them both. But in terms of speed... the current 12" PB absolutely blows any ibook out of the water, even the 900 mhz. The 700 mhz? It's nowhere close...

Will the new ibooks be closer in speed to the PB? I'm sure they will, just as the 900 mhz ibook was fairly close to the Rev. A 12" PB in speed (on non-altivec tasks)... but that's to be decided when the new ibooks appear.

Daveman Deluxe
Oct 13, 2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by QCassidy352
you've got to be kidding me... I notice a big difference between my 1 Ghz 12" Albook and the 900 mhz ibook it replaced.

Comparing the speed of your sister's ibook to the 12" PB...
700 mhz G3 -- 1 Ghz G4
100 mhz bus -- 133 mhz bus
SDRAM (max of 640) -- DDR RAM (max of 1.2 gigs)
*old* 16 meg Mobility Radeon -- 32 meg geforce 5200go

For what it's worth, the G4 does not properly support DDR RAM--the systm controller can only read/write on the rise of the clock cycle, not the fall.

Plutoniq
Oct 13, 2003, 02:30 PM
The 1mb 1:1 L2 Cache is really goin' to do a lot for the performance of the Ibook, people overlook how critical this single factor can effect CPU performance. The path to the L2 Cache on the 750GX is 256bits wide, meaning it can both read & write to the L2 cache at the same time.

60x bus might be a little outdated, the Systems bus speeds of portable Mac's is even more so........ but the 750GX is going to minimize the effects these bottlenecks have on performance.

It's pretty much a joke that the G4 has only now just been introduced with 512k 1:1 L2 cache. I agree with Apple that L3 cache is unimportant when a large and fast L2 cache is present...... but i wouldn't necessarily call 512k of L2 cache large when both 750GX's and Intel Centrino's are being issued with 1mb 1:1 L2 cache as a standard.

lewdvig
Oct 13, 2003, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by QCassidy352
you've got to be kidding me... I notice a big difference between my 1 Ghz 12" Albook and the 900 mhz ibook it replaced.

Comparing the speed of your sister's ibook to the 12" PB...
700 mhz G3 -- 1 Ghz G4
100 mhz bus -- 133 mhz bus
SDRAM (max of 640) -- DDR RAM (max of 1.2 gigs)
*old* 16 meg Mobility Radeon -- 32 meg geforce 5200go

Those are HUGE differences... especially the first one of course.

This is no knock on the ibook - I've had two, and loved them both. But in terms of speed... the current 12" PB absolutely blows any ibook out of the water, even the 900 mhz. The 700 mhz? It's nowhere close...

Will the new ibooks be closer in speed to the PB? I'm sure they will, just as the 900 mhz ibook was fairly close to the Rev. A 12" PB in speed (on non-altivec tasks)... but that's to be decided when the new ibooks appear.

I didn't say that there wasn't a difference, just that she didn't notice it. In the stuff she does - office apps mail and web - that does not surprise me at all.

This iBook with Panther is really something. I am a power snob, but I would actually call this little iBook usable now. No, it won't be my first choice for FCP but the new OS makes everyday stuff like finder, mail and preview a whole lot faster.

The G4 makes the biggest difference in Altivec optimized apps - especially iMovie and iPhoto. I found iPhoto OK though.