Poll: Are you buying Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther)? [Archive]

RBMaraman

Oct 9, 2003, 04:42 AM

Yep, I'm getting. I placed my order yesterday.

Here's the thing that sucks. I'm currently living and studying in the UK (for a semester), but I go to college in the US. So, I had to have Panther shipped to my home in the US. So, it will arrive at my home on the 24th, then my parents have to ship it to me, so I won't get it for another week.

ntg

Oct 9, 2003, 04:45 AM

I've ordered one copy, and I'll try it on my G4 Dual 533, G4 400, B/W G3 400, iBook 500 and iBook 700.

If it give a speed boost to the older machines (especially the G3 - my first 'Brand New' machine), then I'll be buying a Family Pack for home and Multiple copies of Client and Server for work (since we use G3 400 iMac DVs at work, and I'll switch them all if it is as fast and useful as 9.2.2). I may even go the whole hog, and buy an Xserve G5 (when announced...) to act as a PDC to our Win Server.

Here's hoping....:D

AhmedFaisal

Oct 9, 2003, 04:46 AM

Before Fink isn't officially released for OSX.3 I won't upgrade, so I will buy Panther around X-mas, not earlier.
Cheers,

Ahmed

mac15

Oct 9, 2003, 06:08 AM

Uh, buy it. Yeah sure, does the applestore accept invisicard? if not then oh well :)

MattG

Oct 9, 2003, 07:00 AM

I was able to use the up to date program for my new Powerbook. It's ordered!

Mr. Anderson

Oct 9, 2003, 07:45 AM

Looking forward to it - especially at work....

D

j33pd0g

Oct 9, 2003, 08:38 AM

Actually, I'm excited, but voted no. I will buy it when new versions of the software I use require it. And of course, after I read about all the stuff I'm missing. Still not crazy about the metal finder. A speedy os is always nice... like to know more about core audio.

pivo6

Oct 9, 2003, 08:39 AM

I'll buy it sometime this year. I'm surprised at the number of people who said that they would pirate it.

bousozoku

Oct 9, 2003, 09:51 AM

I'll get mine the same way I got the rest--from ADC. They've not only provided the initial package (10.1, 10.2) but they also provide a later package (10.1.3, 10.2.3) after there have been substantial changes.

filmamigo

Oct 9, 2003, 09:56 AM

I voted no because I'm near the bottom of the performance barrel :D with an iBook 700, and "upgrading" an OS makes me nervous when I need every ounce of speed I can get!

Maybe I've spent to much time with M$ slothware, but it seems like every time an OS vendor claims that an OS is "faster and more responsive" it is categorically NOT TRUE. It only seems to be true if you order a whole new computer to go under the OS! (Sometimes I wonder how fast System 6 would be on a G5 or Windows 3.1 would be on a P4....)

I am especially nervous about "upgrading" my iBook because I am watching the G3 almost disappear from consciousness in Mac land....... no Final Cut Pro 4, no DVD Studio Pro 2, no AVID FreeDV.

I guess that leaves me with two questions -- for anyone with real experience running Panther on an iBook 700 -- is it faster? And how likely is it that software written for Panther will break under Jaguar?

AmbitiousLemon

Oct 9, 2003, 10:06 AM

I was ready to buy until I actually previewed it. There is a modest performance boost, but other than that there is nothing new. I felt Jaguar was worth the price, but I am still undecided about Panther.

Two other concerns are that the new finder is very buggy and offers nothing new. And there are still bugs that have been in OSX from the very beginning that Apple refuses to acknowledge (ftp in finder anyone?).

This just feels like a weak update to me. All said though I might still buy. I don't like being behind in my os... very undecided.

robbieduncan

Oct 9, 2003, 10:17 AM

Going to buy a nice shiny PowerBook and get Panther with it :)

LinuxGigolo

Oct 9, 2003, 10:23 AM

University volume licenses rule! (Yes.. I said 'rule'.. I had said r00l, but I decided to edit it). In other words, I get it free!

softwiz500

Oct 9, 2003, 10:30 AM

Filmamigo, buying panther is probably one of the best things you could do for your iBook. I've seen it running on a 900Mhz iBook, it gained huge performance increases and an even bigger battery life increase. (Every update to OS X has made it faster, BTW, not slower. You should get the silly MSness out of your head.)

Wonder Boy

Oct 9, 2003, 10:46 AM

ill ask for it for xmas. id rather put my money towards a g3 compatible "soundtrack" type program like phrazer and a bunch of extra loops.

i do recommend the phrazer program for us g3 people. its a close as we're going to get to soundtrack.

Chealion

Oct 9, 2003, 11:32 AM

To the 147+ who will pirate it: :( Give money where its due, we don't need Apple tagging on serial numbers and such. (Not that it would stop too many people, but the idea of no serial numbers is much nicer).

Can't wait to buy it... Just waiting for my local reseller to get it in :)

wdlove

Oct 9, 2003, 11:36 AM

I plan to attend the Panther release party at my local Apple Store. Anxious to see what Steve is planning. Now it's just 15 more days and counting!

1macker1

Oct 9, 2003, 11:39 AM

with the student discount ...this update is wll worth it.

bb0ys

Oct 9, 2003, 11:43 AM

I'm a student and i have a student membership to the ADC. I can get the $69 price for Panther through apple's online education discount store. How do I get the discount through the ADC with a Student membership (or is it even possible)? What is the ADC Student Membership Price?

TIA!

jayscheuerle

Oct 9, 2003, 12:03 PM

Alas, not until my beige box dies... or someone comes up with a hack to run Panther on it!

Archmage

Oct 9, 2003, 12:20 PM

Those of you who marked "No, I plan on pirating/copying it", your IP addresses have been logged and forwarded to Apple and the FBI.

Thank you for your cooperation.

:D :D :D

Awimoway

Oct 9, 2003, 12:34 PM

I have just two Macs. Instead of getting the family pack, I had called my Dad, who is a school teacher, to order it for me with his educational discount. Total is $150 with tax. I could have ordered just one, but I wanted to be honest. But maybe I'm just trading one dishonesty for another, since my Dad won't be using them.

Viv

Oct 9, 2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Archmage
Those of you who marked "No, I plan on pirating/copying it", your IP addresses have been logged and forwarded to Apple and the FBI.

Thank you for your cooperation.

:D :D :D

Thats ok we all used your IP number':D'

1macker1

Oct 9, 2003, 12:39 PM

I think alot of the college kids will be pooling their money together to buy the OS and share it with each other.

-hh

Oct 9, 2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by arn
I'm very interested to see the results of this poll...

arn

The Poll option that I was looking to use was:

"Yes, but I waited to buy my new G5 until Apple announced their policy".

It should be here by this weekend. Think that going from an 8500 will be a bit of a boost? :D

My biggest challenge will be to find a VGA adaptor plug to use my venerable (1996 vintage) Apple 1705 monitor (hey, its still running fine, and it did cost me a pretty penny ($400?), back when I bought it).

-hh

bousozoku

Oct 9, 2003, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by bb0ys
I'm a student and i have a student membership to the ADC. I can get the $69 price for Panther through apple's online education discount store. How do I get the discount through the ADC with a Student membership (or is it even possible)? What is the ADC Student Membership Price?

TIA!

The ADC Student membership price is $0.00, which I think you'll like.

You won't get it the first day it's available, most likely, but you won't have to pay extra. It's as though you get Mac OS X for $69 and get the rest of the information and CDs for $30.

bb0ys

Oct 9, 2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by bousozoku
The ADC Student membership price is $0.00, which I think you'll like.

You won't get it the first day it's available, most likely, but you won't have to pay extra. It's as though you get Mac OS X for $69 and get the rest of the information and CDs for $30.

Does this mean it will be shipped to me automatically along with the monthly developer tools CD's? I don't have order it or anything like that?

helmsc

Oct 9, 2003, 01:15 PM

I voted to pirate a copy. The only reason of this is because I SHOULD have qualified for the Up-to-Date program with my new 15" Al PB but stuck on the serial number problem. I figure that Apple is just charging for shipping/handling so what the heck. This is just my view on the situation, don't flame me.

eric_n_dfw

Oct 9, 2003, 01:22 PM

Powerbook G5

Oct 9, 2003, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by helmsc
I voted to pirate a copy. The only reason of this is because I SHOULD have qualified for the Up-to-Date program with my new 15" Al PB but stuck on the serial number problem. I figure that Apple is just charging for shipping/handling so what the heck. This is just my view on the situation, don't flame me.

So if I didn't get a new 15" Al PB because you got to the store before me and got the last one in stock, do I have the right to mug you and steal it from you because if I had gotten there 20 minutes earlier, it would have rightfully been mine?

helmsc

Oct 9, 2003, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
When did you buy your PBook?

Ordered online from Apple Sept. 16 and received Sept. 26. It was a BTO btw.

helmsc

Oct 9, 2003, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
So if I didn't get a new 15" Al PB because you got to the store before me and got the last one in stock, do I have the right to mug you and steal it from you because if I had gotten there 20 minutes earlier, it would have rightfully been mine?

How is it pirating/stealing a copy if they are only charging for the shipping PLUS they are the ones that screwed me on the UP-to-Date program along with a bunch of other people?

Powerbook G5

Oct 9, 2003, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by helmsc
How is it pirating/stealing a copy if they are only charging for the shipping PLUS they are the ones that screwed me on the UP-to-Date program along with a bunch of other people?

Those people are still paying for it, even though it is a bit cheaper. When you go online and pirate it without paying, that is illegal. As far as being screwed, Apple never once told you "We might give you Panther for free", so they didn't screw you, it seems like everyone has screwed themselves over through wishful thinking that they'd get something for free when Apple did not promise a single thing besides that they'd ship Panther by the end of the year.

mc68k

Oct 9, 2003, 01:58 PM

never bought an apple OS.

don't plan to start now.

eric_n_dfw

Oct 9, 2003, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by helmsc
Ordered online from Apple Sept. 16 and received Sept. 26. It was a BTO btw. Then you don't qualify for the up-2-date program.

If 10.3 is important to you, you should have waited.

Sorry to sound harsh, but that's the way it is.

My 2002 Acura RSX-S didn't come with the option to add the 2003's performance package (suspention, wheel, tire, brake and body upgrades) and it came out a month or so after I bought it. Too bad for me.

I should have waited a couple of months. So should you if 10.3 mattered that much.

Rower_CPU

Oct 9, 2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
I was ready to buy until I actually previewed it. There is a modest performance boost, but other than that there is nothing new. I felt Jaguar was worth the price, but I am still undecided about Panther.

Two other concerns are that the new finder is very buggy and offers nothing new. And there are still bugs that have been in OSX from the very beginning that Apple refuses to acknowledge (ftp in finder anyone?).

This just feels like a weak update to me. All said though I might still buy. I don't like being behind in my os... very undecided.

Actually, I think the new Finder has a lot going for it:
-Faster searching
-User-centric left-hand pane
-Encrypted home folders
-Labels (OK, it's old, but it's new to X)
-iDisk syncing
-Built-in gzip support

Any bugs will (hopefully) be worked out by the time it goes GM. I agree on the FTP in Finder thing - very annoying.

With Exposé, fast-user switching, improved iChat, Preview, Address Book and Mail, and a lot of good stuff for administration, I think it has a lot going for it.

helmsc

Oct 9, 2003, 02:37 PM

Update on previous postings... I do not qualify for the Up-to-Date according to Apple's phone rep. I still do not see how the G5's qualify and not my less than a month old PB. I guess I should have called Apple before I jumped the gun the "got screwed so I will pirate notion". I will end up buying a 5-pack (for the PB and my older PowerMac G4) once I can gather up the money.

eric_n_dfw

Oct 9, 2003, 03:23 PM

I agree with most of you who say that it's not fair that G5 users get the up-2-date but not all G4 users. IMO, they should have just back-dated it to the day G5's started shipping and gave it to any machine purchased from then on.

Apple shoots themselves in the foot on PR issues like this a lot - for instance, why the heck do their "pro" machines not come with the software bundles that their "home" machines do? Maybe Pro's don't need them, but at least offer them on a DVD-ROM or something so us pro-sumers don't have feel like we paid more for less.

Another example: Why make iDVD unavailable "officially" on machines that don't ship with a superdrive? (I'm a license breaker on that one as I've installed a DVD-RW in my Dual 500 and run iDVD 3 via the iLife package)

That's just the way Apple is - screw your base because they are insanely loyal. (Sad thing is, they're right)

It still doesn't give anyone the "right" to steal their software.

ryme4reson

Oct 9, 2003, 04:10 PM

I have a friend at Apple and I am gonna get a free copy, so I voted pirate. Why pay for something you can get for free? That is so unamerican. I know some of you believe Apple is a semi-cult, and SJobs is the Messiah, but its just a company to me. ******** them. I have been wasting money for years on an overpriced, underpowered G4 hardware.

By the way I am in class at San Jose state university, so you can log the IP address.

eric_n_dfw

Oct 9, 2003, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by ryme4reson
I have a friend at Apple and I am gonna get a free copy, so I voted pirate. Why pay for something you can get for free? That is so unamerican. I know some of you believe Apple is a semi-cult, and SJobs is the Messiah, but its just a company to me. ******** them. I have been wasting money for years on an overpriced, underpowered G4 hardware.

By the way I am in class at San Jose state university, so you can log the IP address.
So Apple held a gun to your head and said, "You must buy our underpowered, overpriced G4 hardware." Wow! I'm glad I don't live that close to Apple HQ. :rolleyes:

If your friend gives you a copy that he shouldn't, then it is he, not you that is hurting the the company, and is someone Apple should fire. He is cutting into their profits and hurting those of us who are stockholders (whether directly or through mutual funds, IRA's or 401k's that own AAPL shares).

Now, if he is giving you a complimentary copy that Apple gave out as a perk then that's a different matter, but by the tone of your message, it doesn't sound like it.

Thank you also for letting me know where not to send my son to school when he is old enough - they obviously don't teach business ethics or economics if you think that wanting to buy a product from a company is somehow a cult-like activity.

(They also don't, aparently, teach composition if you feel the need to use foul language to get your point across either)

Stella

Oct 9, 2003, 04:42 PM

For those people thinking about pirating OSX...
When Apple put copy protection mechasisms in the next OSX, don't go crying to Apple - "How dare they do this"!

Your Fault!

jayscheuerle

Oct 9, 2003, 04:46 PM

I am also now working on Panther support (i.e. Mac OS X 10.3), both for the models that XPostFacto currently supports and for the Beige G3 and "Wallstreet" Powerbooks. It is unlikely that I will have Panther support completed for Panther's ship date (of October 24), because Apple has not yet released the Panther source code. However, I do not expect a long delay before Panther support is available.

Hope it works! (http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/)

Centris 650

Oct 9, 2003, 04:46 PM

I'm going to pick up my dual G4 tomorrow! So I guess I qualify! (I was supposed to pick it up and pay for it last week...glad I didn't! I also plan to buy another mac for home later this year/early next year. Waiting to see what happens with the monitors and what MR says about MWSF.

jg3

Oct 9, 2003, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by bb0ys
Does this mean it will be shipped to me automatically along with the monthly developer tools CD's? I don't have order it or anything like that?

Yep, it'll just come. And bousozoku, don't forget about the T-shirt and chance at WWDC scholarships each year, etc. :)

eric_n_dfw

Oct 9, 2003, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Stella
For those people thinking about pirating OSX...
When Apple put copy protection mechasisms in the next OSX, don't go crying to Apple - "How dare they do this"!

Your Fault! ... and don't think they won't. They sure as heck did on Final Cut Pro 3.

I'm actually surprised that FCP 3 doesn't ping the network and check for duplicate key's running the way Adobe and (i think) MS Office does.

Maybe FCP 4 does - I haven't upgraded to that.

FCP has an insanly long key to enter at install and then it locks that install to the machine using the unique "MAC Address" of the motherboard's ethernet card. (or so I'm told) That way you cannot just copy the FCP App folder to another Mac. They also put some kind of copy protection on the CD-ROM to prevent burned copies and/or ISO image files from working. (I'm guessing that also is true for FCP 4 as well)

eric_n_dfw

Oct 9, 2003, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by jg3
Yep, it'll just come. And bousozoku, don't forget about the T-shirt and chance at WWDC scholarships each year, etc. :) Wow! I thought the student ADC level didn't include the OS and dev CD's Just discounts on WebObjects and the one-time ADC hardware discount. (and WWDC scholorship opportunities)

noel4r

Oct 9, 2003, 05:22 PM

yeah unfortunately i'm buying it, just because....

alset

Oct 9, 2003, 05:55 PM

I'm disgusted that so many people would admit that they plan to pirate Panther. These are often the same people who demand the most from Apple. Don't get me wrong, I'm no angel, but that's the most disrespectful act you can purport against any company that you claim to love.

Dan

bousozoku

Oct 9, 2003, 06:24 PM

xDANx

Oct 9, 2003, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by alset
I'm disgusted that so many people would admit that they plan to pirate Panther. These are often the same people who demand the most from Apple. Don't get me wrong, I'm no angel, but that's the most disrespectful act you can purport against any company that you claim to love.

Dan

i plan to install os 10.3 without having purchased it...i'm probably going to download a copy over carracho or burn a copy when it eventually trickles down to my friends. i'm not going to apologize for it but i'm also not going to try to rationalize it away. i presently have installed copies of os 9.2 and 10.2 that i also didn't buy. most of my software i didn't buy. i'm sure there are plenty of people who therefore consider me to be a parasite. people are entitled to their opinions.

i have however spent thousands of dollars on apple hardware and, funny thing, last time i checked that's how apple makes money. i recognize the irony in the fact that while most of the money comes from hardware, what makes apple so different (and better) than other alternatives is the experience of using the os/software. but that doesn't change the fact that my behavior pretty much is in line with apple's business model anyway.

Dont Hurt Me

Oct 9, 2003, 07:08 PM

just what apple needs pirates! anyhow i just bought 10.2 -10.2.6 just to play UT2k3. No im not planning on buying 10.3 which has nothing i need??? support apple and it software makers dont pirate.

Powerbook G5

Oct 9, 2003, 07:36 PM

I am getting Panther afterall, and for free :) I just used the credit card that my dad gave me for "emergencies" to order it from the Apple Store, then immediately sent my dad an email about how I tried to use my check card, but Apple needed the 3 digit security code for Visa cards, so I had to use the credit card instead and that I'd pay him back for it whenever he'd like...of course, knowing my dad, I knew he'd say don't worry about it, because he doesn't like having to deal with tracking who owes what. He just emailed me back and said not to worry about it, so I got Panther for free without resorting to piracy or stealing...just some liberties with the truth, heh. ;)

a1291762

Oct 9, 2003, 08:11 PM

I've heard all the raves about Panther but similar claims were made about Jag and it *still* runs slower than 10.1 on my machine (iMac DV 400). Of course, I use 10.2 because applications require it. I need to reboot to 10.1 to play DVDs though since they skip in 10.2.

If I get a new machine that can actually take advantage of the features in Panther, I'll upgrade then.

Link

jayb2000

Oct 9, 2003, 08:43 PM

Going to wait until Q1 04 to get a dual G5, so it should have Panther on it then.

whocares

Oct 9, 2003, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by xDANx

i have however spent thousands of dollars on apple hardware and, funny thing, last time i checked that's how apple makes money. i recognize the irony in the fact that while most of the money comes from hardware, what makes apple so different (and better) than other alternatives is the experience of using the os/software. but that doesn't change the fact that my behavior pretty much is in line with apple's business model anyway.

So...... you're saying that if you could "pirate" Apple harware and get it for free, you would just go along a get free Apple hardware to run free sofware? :rolleyes:
Anyhoo, I always thought Apple *was* a software company that also made machines to run their OS.

I for one plan to buy 10.3 w/ education discount. Honesty pays................in the long run.

Fukui

Oct 9, 2003, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by a1291762
I've heard all the raves about Panther but similar claims were made about Jag and it *still* runs slower than 10.1 on my machine (iMac DV 400). Of course, I use 10.2 because applications require it. I need to reboot to 10.1 to play DVDs though since they skip in 10.2.

You've got to be kidding.

ZildjianKX

Oct 9, 2003, 11:32 PM

Actually, I pirated it, qualify for the update-to-date program, and am getting through ADC... so I'm all three, lol.

yamabushi

Oct 10, 2003, 12:07 AM

I'll get Panther with my new PB. Pirating software is wrong. That said, I think there are a few situations where it may be somewhat justified. Stealing it just because you don't feel like paying for it isn't one of them however. I'm no saint but I try to give money to those people and companies that have helped me out. Apple is at the top of my list of companies to buy stuff from. In a way a purchase is like a vote for that company to become stronger. We get better products and services by companies competing for our purchases. So, it makes sense to avoid companies you distrust and buy from those that you either feel neutral towards or like.

scem0

Oct 10, 2003, 01:19 AM

lol lots of people pirating it :).

I, on the other hand, will not buy it till I get a new computer, which will come with it installed.

scem0

mc68k

Oct 10, 2003, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
They also put some kind of copy protection on the CD-ROM to prevent burned copies and/or ISO image files from working. (I'm guessing that also is true for FCP 4 as well) what they do is similar to playstation games' copy protection-- they put a large block of read errors onto the cd. most imaging programs will quit out of the imaging process detecting a "read error".

all u need is a program that copies everything, including the intentional "read errors".

eric_n_dfw

Oct 10, 2003, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by mc68k
what they do is similar to playstation games' copy protection-- they put a large block of read errors onto the cd. most imaging programs will quit out of the imaging process detecting a "read error".

all u need is a program that copies everything, including the intentional "read errors". I figured as much -- not much different than the good old Commodore 64 days with block errors on the floppies. I remember "cracking" Beach Head which was insanely easy as the protection was detected in BASIC!

xDANx

Oct 10, 2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by whocares
So...... you're saying that if you could "pirate" Apple harware and get it for free, you would just go along a get free Apple hardware to run free sofware? :rolleyes:
Anyhoo, I always thought Apple *was* a software company that also made machines to run their OS.

I for one plan to buy 10.3 w/ education discount. Honesty pays................in the long run.

let's see...if i had a nanotech forge of some kind i would probably make a copy of my friend's ibook (let's say)...i would not, however, break into a mac dealer (or a truck, or someone's home) and steal a computer. i'm sure that you don't see a difference in stealing a physical piece of hardware and copying 1s and 0s...i do, let's agree to disagree.

if apple was a software company then we would have probably already seen OS X for wintel...there's been plenty of discussion on these boards about why that would probably kill apple...because they make the vast majority of their money on hardware. whenever i get a new computer i will be sticking with apple and spending several thousand dollars each time. i don't feel like i'm really doing much damage to them by copying their OS. it is technically illegal. i can deal with that.

wdlove

Oct 10, 2003, 12:52 PM

If you buy a G5 at your local Apple Store, the Apple Pro Card is free. Then you can have a Mac Genius install the Panther, then it will be like it came preinstalled. The $19.95 is a good deal. Pirating only hurts Apple. They should have the license for home use, ease up on the family.

candan9019

Oct 10, 2003, 03:57 PM

I hope I get mine with student ADC. I've been getting the mailings but the ADC website says I have no assets and the history is blank. I bought an imac with the developer discout so it should show. Maybe I should ask them. Oh well I'll go down to Denver to pick up a copy on the 24th if not.