PDA

View Full Version : Mac Pro (Early 2008) Notes and Options




Pages : [1] 2

MacRumors
Jan 8, 2008, 04:38 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Today Apple released the long awaited Mac Pro updates a week ahead of Macworld Expo. Similarly, In June, Apple released (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/06/05/apple-releases-new-macbook-pros-with-santa-rosa/) MacBook Pro updates only 6 days before the WWDC 2007 Keynote. A few notes gathered about the new Mac Pros:

- Today's Mac Pro is called "Mac Pro (Early 2008)" in Apple support documents.
- Full Specs (http://support.apple.com/specs/macpro/Mac_Pro_Early_2008.html) and Manual (PDF) (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Mac_Pro_Early_2008.pdf) have been posted.
- New Mac Pros are already in retail Apple Stores.
- While Apple has standardized on 8-Core Mac Pros as the "base" model, they actually do offer a single 2.8GHz Quad-Core CPU Mac Pro option for $2299.
- Rumors of Apple buying up (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/05/apple-buying-up-high-end-penryn-processors/) the high end 3.2GHz Penryn ("Harpertown") processors were apparently true.
- The 1600MHz front side bus is up from the previous Mac Pro's 1333 MHz front side bus.
- While the new NVIDIA 8800GT is not yet available in the U.S. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=410804) as a standalone purchase for old Mac Pros, it is available separately (http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/wa/RSLID?find=nvidia%208800) at the UK Apple Store for £220.
- Despite expectations (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/03/blu-ray-support-at-macworld-mac-pros-soon/), Apple did not introduce a Blu-ray option.
- Reminder that Apple charges a large premium for RAM for their online store orders, so you will always do better to buy ram from 3rd party vendors. (Discussion (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=410798))

More Discussion in our Mac Pro forums (http://forums.macrumors.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1).


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/08/mac-pro-early-2008-notes-and-options/)



Small White Car
Jan 8, 2008, 04:41 PM
Don't forget the new support for 32 GB of RAM. Yum :)

fanbrain
Jan 8, 2008, 04:41 PM
Good news to those who were waiting. I'll sit out for another week to see what happens.

Stang68
Jan 8, 2008, 04:41 PM
Since Apple released this today, it leaves more room for a big announcement on Monday!

true777
Jan 8, 2008, 04:41 PM
I believe they released it once they knew that the *other* new products they are planning to introduce at MacWorld will be ready for sure. That is, the MacPro/XServe were their annnouncement backup plans in case whatever else they wanted to show at MacWorld wouldn't be ready.

Of course Intel's processor announcement timing also was fitting.

twoodcc
Jan 8, 2008, 04:41 PM
yep. great for people looking to get a mac pro, but was waiting.

now i'm looking forward to seeing that 8800 for sale in the US for my mac pro :apple:

CWallace
Jan 8, 2008, 04:42 PM
I believe they release it once they know that the *other* new products they are planning to introduce at MacWorld will be ready and coming through for sure. That is, the MacPro/XServe were their annnouncement backup plans in case whatever else they want to show wouldn't be ready. Of course Intel's processor announcement timing also was fitting.

No doubt it will also give a bump to Apple's lagging stock price leading into the bump MacWorld will add.

Full of Win
Jan 8, 2008, 04:42 PM
Based on the specs and cost, I think a midrange will be shown at MacWorld.

Pukey
Jan 8, 2008, 04:43 PM
Very cool.
I would get one if I had a lot more in the bank, but I think a new MBP will do just fine. I'll wait to see if they make any updates this coming MWSF.

CWallace
Jan 8, 2008, 04:44 PM
Based on the specs and cost, I think a midrange will be shown at MacWorld.

They'd only be shooting themselves in the foot since many buyers will likely be in the "still shipping" stage (most, if they go for the 8800GT) and all of the rest will still be in the return window.

So those buying it because they need more power and expandability then an iMac will be returning them - and that number might not be insignificant in terms of the total units ordered/bought to date at that time.

Pukey
Jan 8, 2008, 04:47 PM
Based on the specs and cost, I think a midrange will be shown at MacWorld.

Isn't the iMac Apple's midrange model?

CWallace
Jan 8, 2008, 04:49 PM
Isn't the iMac Apple's midrange model?

Yes, but many on this forum (and I am not one of them) want a smaller Mac Pro that allows for the CPU, GPU, and drives (optical and fixed) to be swapped out. None of which is possible with the iMac.

I doubt such a device will ship mere days after an update to the Mac Pro.

Drumjim85
Jan 8, 2008, 04:51 PM
Based on the specs and cost, I think a midrange will be shown at MacWorld.

I hope so too!

Isn't the iMac Apple's midrange model?

it's the only mid range option right now, which kinda sucks... you can't change anything on the imac other than the ram ... what if you have a need for a PCI-X card or something ... i want to add a second internal hard drive ....

RealMcCoy
Jan 8, 2008, 04:53 PM
Today I was out and about to get me an iPhone (in Germany that is) ... to my surprise ... the guy (who was obviously in charge of the store) I was questioning about some details I needed to know before I change providers ... responded to my comment that I would normaly have waited for the iPhone 2 (or whatever the name will be of the next generation model), that this would be still something like 6 months away ... as it turns out ... he was talking about Germany ... because his words were "well, for the new model they will show next week in the us, you will need to wait at least 6 more month to be released in Germany. The new one they gonna show on tuesday is only for the us for now ..."

I wonder if this guy was talking too much, knew too much ... or is just about right with it ! We will see next tuesday !!!

milo
Jan 8, 2008, 04:55 PM
Isn't the iMac Apple's midrange model?

Not for those who already own a monitor, or need expandability. You might as well say that apple doesn't need the imac...after all, with the Macbook it already has a "midrange model"...

puckhead193
Jan 8, 2008, 04:55 PM
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8130/4.3.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Would suck if you ordered a new display with your new Mac pro and they. Made new ones at mwsf...

djejrejk
Jan 8, 2008, 04:59 PM
Based on the specs and cost, I think a midrange will be shown at MacWorld.

Don't hold your breath, people have predicted this forever... the problem is that the desktop market is not a high growth market. The notebook market is... hence the emphasis on notebooks.

Small White Car
Jan 8, 2008, 04:59 PM
Yes, but many on this forum want...

And I want a million dollars.

None of this has any bearing on what Apple will actually do. THEY think the iMac fills the needs of everyone who isn't a Mac Pro buyer. THEY have made their feelings on this quite clear again and again. In order for that to happen, they would have to drastically change their view of the iMac. I haven't seen any indication that this has happened.

IF Apple was interested in filling this role, you know what they'd do? They'd let you change the Mac Pro to a Core Duo chip and let you save $1,000. Bingo: Instant $1,800 tower.

They didn't do that today. You know why? It's because they think the iMac is all you need.

Look, I agree with you. I'd love to see such a machine. But it ain't gonna happen anytime soon!

EDIT: What I could see..and what I'd love...is to enlarge the Mac Mini enough to give it a desktop hard drive and dedicted video card...same specs as the Macbook Pro. That would be useful and I could actually imagine Apple doing that.

noodle654
Jan 8, 2008, 05:00 PM
This update is pretty sweet. I wish I could get a MP, but I need a laptop more than a desktop. Now all we need is the MBP update and I am happy!:)

SirOmega
Jan 8, 2008, 05:00 PM
if there are "late 2008" mac pros I'd expect them to be nehalem based.

Mr Ikasu
Jan 8, 2008, 05:00 PM
Anyone know if you buy the single processor (Quad) model, is it the same mobo or have they made a single processor version just for this almost unadvertised version?

If it is the same, what are the chances adding a second processor in a year or two once the prices have dropped would be possible? Would seem like a good plan for me. Much as I would like a Mac Pro £1750 is too much for me as a student!

uNext
Jan 8, 2008, 05:01 PM
Today I was out and about to get me an iPhone (in Germany that is) ... to my surprise ... the guy (who was obviously in charge of the store) I was questioning about some details I needed to know before I change providers ... responded to my comment that I would normaly have waited for the iPhone 2 (or whatever the name will be of the next generation model), that this would be still something like 6 months away ... as it turns out ... he was talking about Germany ... because his words were "well, for the new model they will show next week in the us, you will need to wait at least 6 more month to be released in Germany. The new one they gonna show on tuesday is only for the us for now ..."

I wonder if this guy was talking too much, knew too much ... or is just about right with it ! We will see next tuesday !!!


If some of the media channels and technology editors have no idea about what apple will be releasing. What makes you think a simple entry level sales/cashier working at apple stores would have a clue about future releases?

He is probably a macrmors reader and is fueling the anxiety level.
It would be stupid i think for apple to release a new iphone
the cell phone market is way way diffrent then anything out there.

dubhe
Jan 8, 2008, 05:02 PM
I hope so too!



it's the only mid range option right now, which kinda sucks... you can't change anything on the imac other than the ram ... what if you have a need for a PCI-X card or something ... i want to add a second internal hard drive ....

Well, the macmini is well overdue an update, especially since the last macbook updates (as I thought the macmini was there to empty the parts bin of obsolete macbook parts). There were rumours of the macmini being discontinued a few months part, maybe a new mac is on the cards?

Anyhow, I'm holding out for a portable to replace my 12" G4 without it being made of plastic...

Tsurisuto
Jan 8, 2008, 05:06 PM
Would suck if you ordered a new display with your new Mac pro and they. Made new ones at mwsf...

I don't think that we will see new cinema displays at Macworld. I think Apple will hold out till Summer and then release redesigned Mac Pros, along with new slimmer ACDs. The current Mac Pros are just a stop gap measure.

plumbingandtech
Jan 8, 2008, 05:08 PM
I don't think that we will see new cinema displays at Macworld. I think Apple will hold out till Summer and then release redesigned Mac Pros, along with new slimmer ACDs. The current Mac Pros are just a stop gap measure.

Stop gap for what? This rev just doubled the procs in every base Mac Pro. That's one heck of a stop gap.

Is there some new chip from intel arriving this summer?

mandoman
Jan 8, 2008, 05:13 PM
I don't think that we will see new cinema displays at Macworld. I think Apple will hold out till Summer and then release redesigned Mac Pros, along with new slimmer ACDs. The current Mac Pros are just a stop gap measure.

I'm really surprised ACDs weren't updated. Rumor is when
they are updated they will go to cheaper S-PVA/MVA consumer
panels. The current ACDs are one of the few S-IPS displays
available, so I wouldn't be too upset buying an ACD now
(to get the best quality) before the line changes to cheaper
quality panels.

OriginalMacRat
Jan 8, 2008, 05:15 PM
Also of note..

Bluetooth no longer is purchased separately.

It is able to run two dual-link monitors out of the box. Previously this was a $250 BTO option.

Base memory is now 2x1GB modules instead of the previous 2x512MB.

SkyBell
Jan 8, 2008, 05:16 PM
If I hear one more complaint about a Mac Pro after this update, I'm going to go ballistic.

jnc
Jan 8, 2008, 05:16 PM
Bluetooth as standard - I'm not misremembering, am I? Bluetooth and Airport used to be conifgurable options.

bdkennedy1
Jan 8, 2008, 05:18 PM
An aluminum Mac Pro Cube.

Based on the specs and cost, I think a midrange will be shown at MacWorld.

CWallace
Jan 8, 2008, 05:18 PM
None of this has any bearing on what Apple will actually do. THEY think the iMac fills the needs of everyone who isn't a Mac Pro buyer. THEY have made their feelings on this quite clear again and again. In order for that to happen, they would have to drastically change their view of the iMac. I haven't seen any indication that this has happened.

Just for the record, I happen to agree with you. As such, I'm not one of those "many". I knew the trade-offs of my iMac vs. a Mac Pro and preferred to save the couple of grand. :D


If I hear one more complaint about a Mac Pro after this update, I'm going to go ballistic.

"All decks, brace for impact." :D

viperguy
Jan 8, 2008, 05:22 PM
It would be very nice to see a MacMini revival next week =)
I don't want one, but it would rock a lot! :)

notjustjay
Jan 8, 2008, 05:22 PM
EDIT: What I could see..and what I'd love...is to enlarge the Mac Mini enough to give it a desktop hard drive and dedicted video card...same specs as the Macbook Pro. That would be useful and I could actually imagine Apple doing that.

I'd love to see this too, but I don't imagine Apple doing that. They seem to be fixated on form -- smallest size above all else. The Mac mini was a new product and it was created from scratch. There was no reason why they couldn't have dimensioned it to use full-size 3.5" hard drives in the first place. Instead they chose to use smaller laptop drives because they insisted on making it as small as they could. Now that they've established that footprint (Mac mini, Apple TV, Airport Extreme) I don't see them suddenly introducing a bigger one just so we can have what we want.

Heck, it would have been a LOT cheaper for them to use commodity 3.5" drives instead of expensive laptop drives. The fact that they didn't strongly suggests to me that they really, really care about making it small, to the extent that they're willing to sacrifice cost and performance.

Which, if you think about it, really describes Apple's design decisions lately. Make it look good, no matter what.

Too bad. I'd have bought one as a server if it had an internal 3.5" drive.

Pukey
Jan 8, 2008, 05:23 PM
Stop gap for what? This rev just doubled the procs in every base Mac Pro. That's one heck of a stop gap.

Is there some new chip from intel arriving this summer?

Nehalem I think.

airfang
Jan 8, 2008, 05:24 PM
Is it me or the bluetooth option is missing?

Drumjim85
Jan 8, 2008, 05:25 PM
An aluminum Mac Pro Cube.

as long as it has some kind of express card port or something I'll be happy .

twitch
Jan 8, 2008, 05:25 PM
Ordered mine today.... pretty darn pumped really....

I've been waiting for this machine for quite a while, as a workstation for my recording studio, and the update suits me fine really.... All i really wanted was some current horsepower for the price, and its certainly there. Twice the cores at a faster speed, twice the ram, and more HD for just a tiny bit more than the old base model....

Here's a hint for anyone considering a purchase -

An Apple Developer Connection "Select" membership will cost you $500, and will give you a 'one-time select member hardware discount'. The discount you get with it will save you at least $500 on a base mac pro, and even more on a tricked out one. After upping my hard disks and adding a wireless mouse and keyboard my 'select' price in canadian dollars wasn't even back up to the retail base price..... Basically if you were going to order retail anyway you'll be getting the select membership for free, or even saving a bit of money. The membership has some perks for attending events, and access to lots of extra downloads, including developer use full versions of the client and server versions of tiger and leopard.... Lots of other goodies too....

Food for thought....

-N

Peace
Jan 8, 2008, 05:27 PM
Looks like Apple redesigned the memory cards to face each other instead of stacked upwards.

Scarlet Fever
Jan 8, 2008, 05:28 PM
It is able to run two dual-link monitors out of the box. Previously this was a $250 BTO option.

which means 8 30" displays can be run at once, or 16 23" displays, for a total picture size (if arranged in 4x4) of 92"; or 7' 8"

BenRoethig
Jan 8, 2008, 05:29 PM
Isn't the iMac Apple's midrange model?

It's more low end with the Mini being entry level.

jnc
Jan 8, 2008, 05:31 PM
An aluminum Mac Pro Cube.

I think Apple just bought out their "headless iMac" in the form of the Quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro option.

It's the same price point as the high end iMac 24" and thus you have the potential for expansion or the convenience of AIO.

Is it me or the bluetooth option is missing?

Because it comes as standard :) probably to encourage more wireless peripheral purchases.

Drumjim85
Jan 8, 2008, 05:31 PM
Looks like Apple redesigned the memory cards to face each other instead of stacked upwards.

i wonder if thats for cooling efficiency....

frankly
Jan 8, 2008, 05:32 PM
Something can't be a standard option. It is either standard or an option. I think you meant to say that bluetooth is now standard.

theboyken
Jan 8, 2008, 05:33 PM
While the new NVIDIA 8800GT is not yet available in the U.S. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=410804) as a standalone purchase for old Mac Pros, it is available separately (http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/wa/RSLID?find=nvidia%208800) at the UK Apple Store for £220.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the article, but if it's suggesting that UK folk can buy the 8800 GT as an upgrade for their old (Clovertown) Mac Pro, then I'm not sure that's correct. The 8800 GT's page on the UK store (linked to above) states "It features a PCI Express 2.0 interface for a high-bandwidth connection to the Mac Pro" - which would mean it couldn't work in the older model, non?

Confused (but hopeful) of the UK

BenRoethig
Jan 8, 2008, 05:34 PM
Is it me or the bluetooth option is missing?

It's standard equipment now.

stantheman
Jan 8, 2008, 05:34 PM
Sweet news. I was waiting for a grafic card replacement for my quad g5
which i am still happy with. The new grafic cards run on pci express 2.0
Does it mean they won´t run on Mac Pros and G5s with pci express 1.0?
:confused:
please tell me otherwise...

BenRoethig
Jan 8, 2008, 05:35 PM
Maybe I'm misinterpreting the article, but if it's suggesting that UK folk can buy the 8800 GT as an upgrade for their old (Clovertown) Mac Pro, then I'm not sure that's correct. The 8800 GT's page on the UK store (linked to above) states "It features a PCI Express 2.0 interface for a high-bandwidth connection to the Mac Pro" - which would mean it couldn't work in the older model, non?

Confused (but hopeful) of the UK

PCI-E 2.0 is backwards compatible with PCI-E 1.0

bobsbarricades
Jan 8, 2008, 05:35 PM
Anyone know if you buy the single processor (Quad) model, is it the same mobo or have they made a single processor version just for this almost unadvertised version?

If it is the same, what are the chances adding a second processor in a year or two once the prices have dropped would be possible? Would seem like a good plan for me. Much as I would like a Mac Pro £1750 is too much for me as a student!

anybody else know about this? I don't understand the whole 'true 8 core' business - but if I were to get the single now and upgrade to another cpu later.. is that possible?

SciManAl
Jan 8, 2008, 05:40 PM
I jumped the gun

milo
Jan 8, 2008, 05:42 PM
anybody else know about this? I don't understand the whole 'true 8 core' business - but if I were to get the single now and upgrade to another cpu later.. is that possible?

This has been asked a lot, but nobody knows yet. We probably won't know until someone buys a quad and takes it apart. That could be today (unlikely, but possible if the apple stores stock the quad) or who knows how long it could be?

Tovv
Jan 8, 2008, 05:42 PM
because his words were "well, for the new model they will show next week in the us, you will need to wait at least 6 more month to be released in Germany. The new one they gonna show on tuesday is only for the us for now ..."

That would be nice but I doubt we'll see changes to the hardware. It would be interesting to know if iphone sales, at least in the US, are slowing down because of the expectations for the next gen phone. If significant, perhaps we'll see the next gen sooner than expected... (Maybe a 1.5 with 3g). Wishful thinking.

milo
Jan 8, 2008, 05:45 PM
Where is penryn? This is a lame update if it can even be called that... its a glorified iMac at this point...

These HAVE penryn. What do you think they are running?

And it looks like these particular CPUs have to use this ram. DDR3 isn't compatible, it's a consequence of using xeon chips as opposed to core.

MIDI_EVIL
Jan 8, 2008, 05:47 PM
Where is penryn? This is a lame update if it can even be called that... its a glorified iMac at this point...

I love my macpro, but this is hardly worth my time. Why does apple have to treat the MacPro uses like garbage? *answer* everyone is in love with the MBP

Well my 2 cents, I wish I could justify that kind of expense, the technology is not that exciting in the macpro, i think we could all go on about things that are clearly missing...

Bluray Option? NONE AT ALL? come on...
Penryn? where? *crickets*
Where is DDRIII and if not DDRIII where is the higher speed DDRII 800 mhz is slow by even dell's standards these days for this kind of machine...?
Where is 4+TB of storage? believe it or not this is a small limit to have on this caliber of machine.

:apple: Shape up please, I don't want to fall to the mercy of Dell's and other junk for workstation grade computers....

It's in the right direction I will admit that, but seriously some of you have to agree this is a lame duck of an update... especially with no new screens...

Hahaha... Oh my goodness.

This is Penryn, silly.

This is also good enough.

Bigheadache
Jan 8, 2008, 05:50 PM
anybody else know about this? I don't understand the whole 'true 8 core' business - but if I were to get the single now and upgrade to another cpu later.. is that possible?

I'll take a guess and say that you can upgrade later.

Why? because according to the specs the single quad used is a 5400 series Xeon which means its socket 771. If you were going with a pure single CPU machine, you would be using a socket 775 Xeon such as a Xeon 3350 or 3360 quad core.

jshalvorsen
Jan 8, 2008, 05:50 PM
Where is penryn? This is a lame update if it can even be called that... its a glorified iMac at this point...

I love my macpro, but this is hardly worth my time. Why does apple have to treat the MacPro uses like garbage? *answer* everyone is in love with the MBP

Well my 2 cents, I wish I could justify that kind of expense, the technology is not that exciting in the macpro, i think we could all go on about things that are clearly missing...

Bluray Option? NONE AT ALL? come on...
Penryn? where? *crickets*
Where is DDRIII and if not DDRIII where is the higher speed DDRII 800 mhz is slow by even dell's standards these days for this kind of machine...?
Where is 4+TB of storage? believe it or not this is a small limit to have on this caliber of machine.

:apple: Shape up please, I don't want to fall to the mercy of Dell's and other junk for workstation grade computers....

It's in the right direction I will admit that, but seriously some of you have to agree this is a lame duck of an update... especially with no new screens...

I'm a newbie here at Macrumors, but you my friend need to do your homework.

45-nm Quad-Core Xeon processors = Penryn

And you whine about the RAM used, seriously...... Do some research....

spaceharrier
Jan 8, 2008, 05:51 PM
So from the specs (emphasis mine):

PCI Express expansion
Three open full-length PCI Express expansion slots
One PCI Express 2.0 x16 slot
Two PCI Express x4 slots


So I'm wondering if this platform will be able to run SLI graphics under Windows. A pair of 8800GT boards would be a respectable setup for Windows-based gaming.

plumbingandtech
Jan 8, 2008, 05:51 PM
ill admit that, but seriously some of you have to agree this is a lame duck of an update... especially with no new screens...

I hate it when my lame ducks give me 4 more procs then before.

spaceharrier
Jan 8, 2008, 05:54 PM
That would be nice but I doubt we'll see changes to the hardware. It would be interesting to know if iphone sales, at least in the US, are slowing down because of the expectations for the next gen phone. If significant, perhaps we'll see the next gen sooner than expected... (Maybe a 1.5 with 3g). Wishful thinking.

This is OT and everything, but wouldn't Apple have to put any 3G iPhone through the same FCC approval process(*) as the original model? If so wouldn't it make sense to mention it at Macworld since it'll otherwise be discussed from the FCC filings? Though I'm not sure how that plays with the Osborne Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect) for existing sales.

(* I don't know, but I'm surmising it's a new radio to go with the move to 3G and guessing a change would need a separate approval.)

Mydel
Jan 8, 2008, 05:54 PM
Where is penryn? This is a lame update if it can even be called that... its a glorified iMac at this point...

I love my macpro, but this is hardly worth my time. Why does apple have to treat the MacPro uses like garbage? *answer* everyone is in love with the MBP

Well my 2 cents, I wish I could justify that kind of expense, the technology is not that exciting in the macpro, i think we could all go on about things that are clearly missing...

Bluray Option? NONE AT ALL? come on...
Penryn? where? *crickets*
Where is DDRIII and if not DDRIII where is the higher speed DDRII 800 mhz is slow by even dell's standards these days for this kind of machine...?
Where is 4+TB of storage? believe it or not this is a small limit to have on this caliber of machine.

:apple: Shape up please, I don't want to fall to the mercy of Dell's and other junk for workstation grade computers....

It's in the right direction I will admit that, but seriously some of you have to agree this is a lame duck of an update... especially with no new screens...

I dont know what you smoking but have to be good stuff:confused:
get a grip and think before you post:o

Bigheadache
Jan 8, 2008, 05:54 PM
So from the specs (emphasis mine):

PCI Express expansion
Three open full-length PCI Express expansion slots
One PCI Express 2.0 x16 slot
Two PCI Express x4 slots


So I'm wondering if this platform will be able to run SLI graphics under Windows. A pair of 8800GT boards would be a respectable setup for Windows-based gaming.

Under Windows, SLI doesn't work on an Intel chipset, only Nvidia chipsets. Intel skulltrail gets around this by using nvidia Nforce 100 bridge chips alongside the Intel chipset in order to support SLI

Peace
Jan 8, 2008, 05:56 PM
Gamers vs. Pro users..

In the deadhead world this would be called tweakers vs. peakers.:p

Pukey
Jan 8, 2008, 05:56 PM
I think Apple just bought out their "headless iMac" in the form of the Quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro option.

It's the same price point as the high end iMac 24" and thus you have the potential for expansion or the convenience of AIO.

I would have to agree with this. I know a lot of people here are looking for a "mid range" computer other than the iMac, and I would agree with them, but the absolute minimum price on the Mac Pro (with one 2.8 GHz processor) gives you the same price as the high end iMac. So to me it doesn't look like there's room between those two. On the other hand I can understand still wanting something cheaper than $2,299 but also upgradeable.

jnc
Jan 8, 2008, 05:57 PM
Where is penryn? This is a lame update if it can even be called that... its a glorified iMac at this point...

...seriously some of you have to agree this is a lame duck of an update... especially with no new screens...

Where to start...

Ok, Cinema Displays are a different product. Leave them outta this for the minute - they'll have their moment.

This IS a Penryn Mac Pro, and introduced at a $200 lower pricepoint than its predecessor while including 2GB RAM as standard, Bluetooth, and whatever else.

This is a beefy update dude. Many hundreds if not thousands of people have been rewarded for their patience over the last few months!

So to me it doesn't look like there's room between those two. On the other hand I can understand still wanting something cheaper than $2,299 but also upgradeable.

Given the price of the Quad 2.8, I don't believe there's room for a fourth Mac desktop at any further drop in price that wouldn't just confuse things.

Grimace
Jan 8, 2008, 05:57 PM
Seriously, Bluetooth is STANDARD, not a standard option. :)

Peace
Jan 8, 2008, 05:59 PM
I would have to agree with this. I know a lot of people here are looking for a "mid range" computer other than the iMac, and I would agree with them, but the absolute minimum price on the Mac Pro (with one 2.8 GHz processor) gives you the same price as the high end iMac. So to me it doesn't look like there's room between those two. On the other hand I can understand still wanting something cheaper than $2,299 but also upgradeable.


Using that logic.Which I agree with.The possibility exists that one can add another ( gad.I don't want to say CPU ) "chip" to the logic board.

Bigheadache
Jan 8, 2008, 05:59 PM
Where is penryn? This is a lame update if it can even be called that... its a glorified iMac at this point...

I love my macpro, but this is hardly worth my time. Why does apple have to treat the MacPro uses like garbage? *answer* everyone is in love with the MBP

Well my 2 cents, I wish I could justify that kind of expense, the technology is not that exciting in the macpro, i think we could all go on about things that are clearly missing...

Bluray Option? NONE AT ALL? come on...
Penryn? where? *crickets*
Where is DDRIII and if not DDRIII where is the higher speed DDRII 800 mhz is slow by even dell's standards these days for this kind of machine...?
Where is 4+TB of storage? believe it or not this is a small limit to have on this caliber of machine.

:apple: Shape up please, I don't want to fall to the mercy of Dell's and other junk for workstation grade computers....

It's in the right direction I will admit that, but seriously some of you have to agree this is a lame duck of an update... especially with no new screens...

What's hilarious is that you mention workstation grade computers, but then talk DDR3. Intel's workstation platform (on which Mac Pro and Dell workstations are based) uses ECC FB-DIMM DDR2. Apple can't do anything about what RAM is used. If you went to Dell or HP and got something from the workstation range you would be using the same RAM.

Nugget
Jan 8, 2008, 05:59 PM
which means 8 30" displays can be run at once, or 16 23" displays...

No, it means that 8 displays of any size can be run at once. You can't drive two 23" displays off a single dual-link connector.

epanov
Jan 8, 2008, 06:07 PM
I sure hope Cinema displays will be updated. I dream of a system with new MP and the display. :cool:

The Red Wolf
Jan 8, 2008, 06:07 PM
With the twin PCI-E 2.0 slots is is possible to SLi Or Crossfire in one of the new MacPros? That would rock. It would finally power gaming on the mac Platfrom. Twin 2600's for budget or twin 8800's for major power with a single core would meet that mid-range tower everyone is screaming for. I don't see why technically other than drivers for Leopard it wouldn't be possible. Any thoughts?

scottrichardson
Jan 8, 2008, 06:13 PM
from the apple australia web store, more info section for the available graphics card options:

A 16-lane, double-wide PCI Express 2.0 graphics slot supports the latest graphics controllers for up to 8 GBps of data throughput, twice that of a previous-generation PCI Express slot. And by supplying up to 300 watts of total power to all PCI Express slots, the Mac Pro provides the headroom for high-performance, next-generation graphics cards.

Choose among these graphics card options.

ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT
For excellent all-around performance in creative and productivity applications, choose one or more ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT cards.. This card features a 256MB GDDR3 frame buffer and two dual-link DVI ports, making it capable of simultaneously supporting two 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Displays. This PCI Express 2.0 graphics card provides up to XX performance claim.

ATI Radeon HD 3870
If you’re working in motion graphics, animation, or 3D design and visualization, the powerful ATI Radeon HD 3870 with 512MB of dedicated GDDR4 memory may suit your needs perfectly. It offers two dual-link DVI ports that can simultaneously support two 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Displays for an incredibly large widescreen workspace. We need performance numbers to position this card relative to 8800 GT. Also, a PCIe2.0 card.

NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
. We need performance numbers to position this card relative to 3870. Also, a PCIe2.0 card.

NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600
Featuring a massive 1.5GB frame buffer of GDDR3 memory, the NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 is the ultimate workstation-level graphics card. It’s ideal for industrial-strength 3D design work, modeling, animation, and stereo 3D visualization. One of the most advanced graphics cards available, it has an integrated stereo 3D port, so you can use stereo goggles for stereo-in-a-window visualization applications. With two dual-link DVI ports, you can connect two 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Displays. Featuring amazing performance up to XXX performance claim.

Dual-Display Modes
Each graphics card offers built-in dual-display support in two modes. Extended Desktop mode allows you to work on two monitors at once for increased desktop real estate and enhanced productivity. Video mirroring mode is useful when presenting to groups — the same image that you see on your local display also appears on a projector or auxiliary display. Simply attach two monitors and the Mac OS will recognize both displays. Use the Displays system preference to configure your monitors in either extended desktop or video mirroring modes.

You can attach multiple Apple flat panels with DVI connectors to your Mac Pro graphics card directly. If you have an Apple flat panel with an ADC connector, the optional Apple DVI to ADC Adapter is required (sold separately).

Appears unfinished... is this a spoiler for a card yet to be officially added to the store? Is this card more powerful than the GT?

Scottie

ltldrummerboy
Jan 8, 2008, 06:21 PM
Don't forget the new support for 32 GB of RAM. Yum :)

I think the previous Mac Pros supported up to 32gb RAM as well. At least according to the Crucial site.

bobsbarricades
Jan 8, 2008, 06:23 PM
With the twin PCI-E 2.0 slots is is possible to SLi Or Crossfire in one of the new MacPros? That would rock. It would finally power gaming on the mac Platfrom. Twin 2600's for budget or twin 8800's for major power with a single core would meet that mid-range tower everyone is screaming for. I don't see why technically other than drivers for Leopard it wouldn't be possible. Any thoughts?


as well for this I am interested - plus any more speculation (reassurance) on the 'buy single quad and upgrade to dual quad [octo] later' paradigm?

Anonymous Freak
Jan 8, 2008, 06:24 PM
- While Apple has standardized on 8-Core Mac Pros as the "base" model, they actually do offer a single 2.8GHz Quad-Core CPU Mac Pro option for $2299.
Just a note for all you out there, this means that the new 2.8 GHz "quad-core" model has a single four core processor sharing a single 1600 MHz bus, whereas the previous-generation "quad-core" models had two dual-core processors on two separate 1333 MHz busses. This means that for bus-intensive, multi-threaded operations, the old models will perform better. Yes, even the old 2.66 GHz model will likely be able to outrun the new 2.8 GHz model.

However, applications that take advantage of the new SSE-4 instructions should be able to make up for the difference, and you now have all four cores in a single socket, leaving a second socket available for upgrades. (Hopefully they actually have the second socket and heatsink in there; having just typed that, I realized that it is entirely possible that they will leave out the second socket altogether, the way they did with the dual-core G5s.)

- The 1600MHz front side bus is up from the previous Mac Pro's 1333 MHz front side bus.
Again, please note that on the lowest-end CTO model, you now have four cores sharing that single 1600 MHz bus, whereas on the previous models, you had two dual-core chips on two separate 1333 MHz busses.

- Bluetooth is now a standard option
Sorry, the pedant in me has to complain. 'Option' implies a choice. (Indeed, the OS X Dictionary defines it as "a thing that is or may be chosen".) As it is no longer a 'choice', the proper wording would be "- Bluetooth is now standard"

akadmon
Jan 8, 2008, 06:26 PM
Since Apple released this today, it leaves more room for a big announcement on Monday!

I believe there is some kind of vibe going across the world -- you're like the seventy forth person to say this exact same thing :eek: I'm starting to believe it's true :rolleyes:

Freis968
Jan 8, 2008, 06:27 PM
Bluetooth as standard - I'm not misremembering, am I? Bluetooth and Airport used to be conifgurable options.

That is correct. You used to have to do a Configure now to add Bluetooth to your MP. Now it is built in automatically. I am puzzled why they did not include the Airport as well. In this day and age it should be standard. It is a $20 config, so why the hell make you buy that seperate. Pretty dumb in my opinion.

jnc
Jan 8, 2008, 06:28 PM
Sorry, the pedant in me has to complain. 'Option' implies a choice. (Indeed, the OS X Dictionary defines it as "a thing that is or may be chosen".) As it is no longer a 'choice', the proper wording would be "- Bluetooth is now standard"

Grimace said the same thing as you half an hour earlier - doesn't the pedant in you have any aversion to redundant comments? :P

I am puzzled why they did not include the Airport as well. In this day and age it should be standard. It is a $20 config, so why the hell make you buy that seperate. Pretty dumb in my opinion.

I'm not sure how popular Mac pro is as a wireless machine. I can see it more likely being part of a wired network than a wireless one. I bet there are lots of orders that don't use Airport and so the price is kept down (imagine, for instance, a small studio buying 10 Mac Pros in a wired network - saving of $500 just by not including Airport)

Anonymous Freak
Jan 8, 2008, 06:29 PM
from the apple australia web store, more info section for the available graphics card options:



Appears unfinished... is this a spoiler for a card yet to be officially added to the store? Is this card more powerful than the GT?

Scottie

Wow! Great catch!

I personally like the "This PCI Express 2.0 graphics card provides up to XX performance claim." under the (acknowledged) Radeon 2600 XT. (emphasis mine.)

zorinlynx
Jan 8, 2008, 06:31 PM
>ATI Radeon HD 3870

This would be so sweet. It'd be nice to have a choice between high end Nvidia and high end ATI on the Mac Pro without having to pay a fortune for the Quadro card which most people don't need.

Historically ATI cards have been more stable under OS X than Nvidia, so if I were buying a new Mac Pro today and the 3870 were available, I'd probably go with it.

Freis968
Jan 8, 2008, 06:32 PM
If you chose the 2.8ghz option to save the $500.00 for the 8 core, which I have thought about doing to save money, what do you think? Is it worth the extra $500 that I would have to "scrape" up to afford or can you upgrade down the road later when the funds were more readily available.

Also, what Apps can utilize the 8 core at this very second? Logic Pro 8? Aperture, Final Cut Express? Are these going to be able to take advantage of the 8 core setup or is it just overkill at this very moment?

themoonisdown09
Jan 8, 2008, 06:33 PM
Don't forget the new support for 32 GB of RAM. Yum :)

I think the previous Mac Pros supported up to 32gb RAM as well. At least according to the Crucial site.

That's correct. Apple only offered 2GB sticks though, so that's why they had 16GB on their site.

zorinlynx
Jan 8, 2008, 06:34 PM
If you chose the 2.8ghz option to save the $500.00 for the 8 core, which I have thought about doing to save money, what do you think? Is it worth the extra $500 that I would have to "scrape" up to afford or can you upgrade down the road later when the funds were more readily available.

Also, what Apps can utilize the 8 core at this very second? Logic Pro 8? Aperture, Final Cut Express? Are these going to be able to take advantage of the 8 core setup or is it just overkill at this very moment?

I'd say it's still overkill right now, BUT multicore is the way the industry is moving, so I'm sure we'll start seeing more apps written to take advantage of it soon enough.

Peace
Jan 8, 2008, 06:37 PM
Can someone explain to me the difference between the new Mac Pro ATI Radeon 2600 XT and This same card (http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd2600/radeonhd2600xt/index.html) ?


Is Apple still using Mac specific cards?

esquire360
Jan 8, 2008, 06:46 PM
i built a quad core 1.5 years ago, getting to them was henious, and if apple doesn'tinclude their custom heat sinks your boned.. so go dually 8 core they rock

Peace
Jan 8, 2008, 06:46 PM
The new Mac Pro has TWO X16 slots :

CWallace
Jan 8, 2008, 06:47 PM
The new Mac Pro has TWO X16 slots :

Yeah, I caught that and was editing as you were quoting. :o :)

revjay
Jan 8, 2008, 06:49 PM
Today I was out and about to get me an iPhone (in Germany that is) ... to my surprise ... the guy (who was obviously in charge of the store) I was questioning about some details I needed to know before I change providers ... responded to my comment that I would normaly have waited for the iPhone 2 (or whatever the name will be of the next generation model), that this would be still something like 6 months away ... as it turns out ... he was talking about Germany ... because his words were "well, for the new model they will show next week in the us, you will need to wait at least 6 more month to be released in Germany. The new one they gonna show on tuesday is only for the us for now ..."

I wonder if this guy was talking too much, knew too much ... or is just about right with it ! We will see next tuesday !!!

He probably just reads MacRumors!

Anonymous Freak
Jan 8, 2008, 06:49 PM
Grimace said the same thing as you half an hour earlier - doesn't the pedant in you have any aversion to redundant comments? :P

Yes, but I was a little too lazy to read each and every prior comment. I read a bunch, but must have missed that one.

Oops. :D

aliasneo
Jan 8, 2008, 06:51 PM
i was waiting for this but now my specification Mac pro costs £3809 (~$7000)

3.2Ghz 8Cores
2GB RAM standard
nVidia 8800GT
300GB SAS Drives
RAID Card for the SAS drives
and the rest is the same

the whole thing costs £3809... ;)

and one more thing Apple included the 8800 GT(why not the GTX) does this means that more games are coming to the mac platform.

Anonymous Freak
Jan 8, 2008, 06:52 PM
He probably just reads MacRumors!

I know from people who work at Apple Stores, that even the managers don't find out about new products until they are announced publicly. They sometimes get boxes delivered with "do not open until 9:00 AM" type things, that until they are allowed to open it, have no idea what's inside.

Heck, I was the one who told the manager of my local Apple Store about the $200 price drop on the morning it was announced, and I was coming in just as a customer! (One of the other employees had just read about it on Ars Technica, and mentioned it to the manager right after I mentioned it. The manager had to go check his email for official confirmation!)

Freis968
Jan 8, 2008, 06:55 PM
Grimace said the same thing as you half an hour earlier - doesn't the pedant in you have any aversion to redundant comments? :P



I'm not sure how popular Mac pro is as a wireless machine. I can see it more likely being part of a wired network than a wireless one. I bet there are lots of orders that don't use Airport and so the price is kept down (imagine, for instance, a small studio buying 10 Mac Pros in a wired network - saving of $500 just by not including Airport)

The Mac Pro is PERFECT for me as a wireless machine because my damn cable outlet is about 30 ft away from my computer at the moment. Not everyone's computer is or can be put right next to the cable plug so instead of having a 30' ethernet cable the wireless option works for me. Besides, don't you notice that when you remove things in the CONFIGURE NOW screen it takes money off of the price? That small studio [I don't see how you consider a small studio that afford 10 Mac Pros small by the way] could simply remove the airport card and save his/her $50 per Mac Pro. It just seems silly to make Bluetooth Standard and not wireless. Every cotton picking Mac or PC mag I see in the store has HOW TO WIFI articles in it, each month consistently.

deputy_doofy
Jan 8, 2008, 06:57 PM
Tech-envy. I have it. My dual G5 doesn't measure up. :(

ajagor92
Jan 8, 2008, 06:58 PM
I don't know if this has already been said - it probably has. I also don't know if this is related, but here it goes.

I think the release of the Mac Pro now means something big at Macworld. If they're releasing it early, then they must have something big they want to release in a week. If they had nothing big to bring to us next week, then I'm sure the new 8 core Mac Pro would've been released then. It makes perfect marketing sense.

Once again, so sorry if this has been said already. I just felt like I had to get it out.

Umbongo
Jan 8, 2008, 07:04 PM
I don't know if this has already been said - it probably has. I also don't know if this is related, but here it goes.

I think the release of the Mac Pro now means something big at Macworld. If they're releasing it early, then they must have something big they want to release in a week. If they had nothing big to bring to us next week, then I'm sure the new 8 core Mac Pro would've been released then. It makes perfect marketing sense.

Once again, so sorry if this has been said already. I just felt like I had to get it out.

I think you, and others, are justified in speculating this. Though it may be nothing more impressive than consumer products that are already rumoured that they want to spend time talking about and take advantage of that valuble time when the world is watching Steve Jobs.

mtbdudex
Jan 8, 2008, 07:05 PM
I don't mean to be nit-picky, but this statement:
- Bluetooth is now a standard option

would be more clear like this:
- Bluetooth was optional, is now standard

jnc
Jan 8, 2008, 07:05 PM
snip

You mean they should make removing Airport a cheaper BTO? Well I can see why you'd say that ;) I'd still suspect Mac Pro is primarily used wired though.

Pukey
Jan 8, 2008, 07:08 PM
If you chose the 2.8ghz option to save the $500.00 for the 8 core, which I have thought about doing to save money, what do you think? Is it worth the extra $500 that I would have to "scrape" up to afford or can you upgrade down the road later when the funds were more readily available.

Also, what Apps can utilize the 8 core at this very second? Logic Pro 8? Aperture, Final Cut Express? Are these going to be able to take advantage of the 8 core setup or is it just overkill at this very moment?

Hi Freis968. I'm not sure if this helps, but the following is an earlier post I saw that mentioned something that might be a good idea.

Ordered mine today.... pretty darn pumped really....

I've been waiting for this machine for quite a while, as a workstation for my recording studio, and the update suits me fine really.... All i really wanted was some current horsepower for the price, and its certainly there. Twice the cores at a faster speed, twice the ram, and more HD for just a tiny bit more than the old base model....

Here's a hint for anyone considering a purchase -

An Apple Developer Connection "Select" membership will cost you $500, and will give you a 'one-time select member hardware discount'. The discount you get with it will save you at least $500 on a base mac pro, and even more on a tricked out one. After upping my hard disks and adding a wireless mouse and keyboard my 'select' price in canadian dollars wasn't even back up to the retail base price..... Basically if you were going to order retail anyway you'll be getting the select membership for free, or even saving a bit of money. The membership has some perks for attending events, and access to lots of extra downloads, including developer use full versions of the client and server versions of tiger and leopard.... Lots of other goodies too....

Food for thought....

-N

Crike .40
Jan 8, 2008, 07:10 PM
Regarding the BT/Airport issue:
iirc
there has been some talk on these boards in the past about certain companies and governmental agencies that block wireless transmission and do not allow certain wireless options in their computers. Apparently, this is no longer a concern for apple re:BT but it might still be re:Airport?

:apple::confused::apple:

tirerim
Jan 8, 2008, 07:21 PM
The Mac Pro is PERFECT for me as a wireless machine because my damn cable outlet is about 30 ft away from my computer at the moment. Not everyone's computer is or can be put right next to the cable plug so instead of having a 30' ethernet cable the wireless option works for me. Besides, don't you notice that when you remove things in the CONFIGURE NOW screen it takes money off of the price? That small studio [I don't see how you consider a small studio that afford 10 Mac Pros small by the way] could simply remove the airport card and save his/her $50 per Mac Pro. It just seems silly to make Bluetooth Standard and not wireless. Every cotton picking Mac or PC mag I see in the store has HOW TO WIFI articles in it, each month consistently.

Shrug. Not much difference between an option to add and an option to subtract. But most things are options to add, probably because it lets them keep the base price (the one they advertise) lower. And they probably figure that more people are going to be using it wired than not (for one thing, if you're actually doing significant local network traffic, it's going to be a lot faster over ethernet). And you'll notice that you can't subtract Bluetooth, whereas wi-fi is actually an option. Honestly, I'm really not sure why you're complaining about having to click a radio button.

Rocketman
Jan 8, 2008, 07:24 PM
Don't forget the new support for 32 GB of RAM. Yum :)

So I assume Multimedia is going to buy two of them now?

It seems the time is soon for Firewire 3200 and combo Blu-Ray and HD-DVD drives :)

Rocketman

AppleMojo
Jan 8, 2008, 07:25 PM
I hope so too!
it's the only mid range option right now, which kinda sucks... you can't change anything on the imac other than the ram ... what if you have a need for a PCI-X card or something ... i want to add a second internal hard drive ....

I love to swap or change out hardware like the rest of you; Probably why one of my first Mac's was a PowerMac, but I am a total convert to the iMac after I gave the 24" a shot.

It is what it is, an all in one machine that performs and functions perfect for what it was designed for.

If people need to add to the baseline hardware of a top end iMac, then they naturally shouldn't be in the mid-range market.

So ultimately, it isn't the iMac's problem, its just the user is trying to use it for something it was never intended for.

iMac preaching complete.

PROJECT359
Jan 8, 2008, 07:25 PM
The company put in an order on one for me today. Now I have to wait 2 - 3 weeks.

I use Macs at home and PC with XP in the office. I've been requesting a Mac upgrade due to the level of video I work on. And now they've finally committed.

Perfect timing :)

Freebart
Jan 8, 2008, 07:28 PM
Does anyone know if this newer Mac Pro still has the two extra SATA ports? I'd like to put two extra drives in the second optical bay without using an extra PCIe card.

Is the optical drive SATA or PATA?

winterspan
Jan 8, 2008, 07:30 PM
I hope so too!
it's the only mid range option right now, which kinda sucks... you can't change anything on the imac other than the ram ... what if you have a need for a PCI-X card or something ... i want to add a second internal hard drive ....

What? You mean PCIe (PCI - Express) not PCI-X, right? I almost 99% sure the Mac Pros don't have native support for a PCI-X slot. I don't even think Apple would have the drivers for it.

AppleMojo
Jan 8, 2008, 07:32 PM
Something can't be a standard option. It is either standard or an option. I think you meant to say that bluetooth is now standard.

My standards are optional.

bobsbarricades
Jan 8, 2008, 07:40 PM
Here is what a chat from one of the salesmen on the Apple website said about upgrading to dual core after purchasing single core.

"Once you get the computer, you can do what you like with it but upgrading the processor is not supported by Apple."

that deffinately sounds like it's possible :)

Peace
Jan 8, 2008, 07:43 PM
Does anyone know if this newer Mac Pro still has the two extra SATA ports? I'd like to put two extra drives in the second optical bay without using an extra PCIe card.

Is the optical drive SATA or PATA?

You want to have SIX hard drives ?

bobsbarricades
Jan 8, 2008, 07:45 PM
can anybody tell me the price of a MP with the ADC discount applied? The aforementioned salesman also told me that the student/college discount is usually a bigger discount than the ADC one... which I find hard to beleive as the student is only 200 bucks...

CWallace
Jan 8, 2008, 07:46 PM
You want to have SIX hard drives ?

Too much is never enough. :cool:

Pukey
Jan 8, 2008, 07:53 PM
can anybody tell me the price of a MP with the ADC discount applied? The aforementioned salesman also told me that the student/college discount is usually a bigger discount than the ADC one... which I find hard to beleive as the student is only 200 bucks...

bobsbarricades, I already posted this comment by twitch to someone else, here it is again though concerning the ADC discount. It gives you a ballpark idea I think.

Ordered mine today.... pretty darn pumped really....

I've been waiting for this machine for quite a while, as a workstation for my recording studio, and the update suits me fine really.... All i really wanted was some current horsepower for the price, and its certainly there. Twice the cores at a faster speed, twice the ram, and more HD for just a tiny bit more than the old base model....

Here's a hint for anyone considering a purchase -

An Apple Developer Connection "Select" membership will cost you $500, and will give you a 'one-time select member hardware discount'. The discount you get with it will save you at least $500 on a base mac pro, and even more on a tricked out one. After upping my hard disks and adding a wireless mouse and keyboard my 'select' price in canadian dollars wasn't even back up to the retail base price..... Basically if you were going to order retail anyway you'll be getting the select membership for free, or even saving a bit of money. The membership has some perks for attending events, and access to lots of extra downloads, including developer use full versions of the client and server versions of tiger and leopard.... Lots of other goodies too....

Food for thought....

-N

Freebart
Jan 8, 2008, 07:54 PM
You want to have SIX hard drives ?

If you're willing to give up your internal optical drive and a PCIe slot, you could have EIGHT internal drives, at least with the older Mac Pro model.
http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=158

plumbingandtech
Jan 8, 2008, 07:55 PM
You want to have SIX hard drives ?

The extra sata ports allow a cable (like the newertech) to run out to an external sata drive that is also bootable. very helpful.

Freebart
Jan 8, 2008, 07:56 PM
Too much is never enough. :cool:

Especially for Time Machine.

MacFly123
Jan 8, 2008, 08:01 PM
Wasn't there anyone else that saw the pic and thought that they added a glossy black coat to the interior well??? I thought they did and went.... COOL, they are adding the new theme. But NO :( I think they should have, it looks HOT. Am I alone?

PROJECT359
Jan 8, 2008, 08:08 PM
Wasn't there anyone else that saw the pic and thought that they added a glossy black coat to the interior well??? I thought they did and went.... COOL, they are adding the new theme. But NO :( I think they should have, it looks HOT. Am I alone?

Thought the same thing :D

Drumjim85
Jan 8, 2008, 08:10 PM
What? You mean PCIe (PCI - Express) not PCI-X, right? I almost 99% sure the Mac Pros don't have native support for a PCI-X slot. I don't even think Apple would have the drivers for it.

yes sorry .. pci-e .... (why did people name 2 products pci express.... grr)

68134
Jan 8, 2008, 08:14 PM
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8130/4.3.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Would suck if you ordered a new display with your new Mac pro and they. Made new ones at mwsf...

yes, i was thinking this. apple has done shady stuff like this in the past. therefore, im getting the MP and waiting on the ACD

Thomas2006
Jan 8, 2008, 08:14 PM
Stop gap for what? This rev just doubled the procs in every base Mac Pro. That's one heck of a stop gap.

Is there some new chip from intel arriving this summer?
The Montevina platform and Nehalem processors should be out in the second half of this year. Starting with Nehalem the front side bus (legacy technology) will disappear and the Intel QuickPath Interconnect will take its place. As sweet as this update is the next update will be that much sweeter.

SheriffParker
Jan 8, 2008, 08:22 PM
Based on the specs and cost, I think a midrange will be shown at MacWorld.

There has been no evidence of such behavior.

Plus, the last thing Apple wants is a bunch of teenage gamers using their machines, hacking them, destroying them, trying to get Applecare to fix it, tying up all the phone lines for support etc. There's a reason Apple stays out of this market. They might gain market share, but profits and quality control might begin to slip. I think they do quite well without the mini-tower.

Glideslope
Jan 8, 2008, 08:23 PM
Looks like Apple redesigned the memory cards to face each other instead of stacked upwards.

I was wondering about this also? I've always felt the top riser on my 2.66 ran warmer than the bottom. Never gave it much thought. Inverting the top riser would make a more efficient space to cool IMO.

plumbingandtech
Jan 8, 2008, 08:40 PM
The Montevina platform and Nehalem processors should be out in the second half of this year. Starting with Nehalem the front side bus (legacy technology) will disappear and the Intel QuickPath Interconnect will take its place. As sweet as this update is the next update will be that much sweeter.

Ahh sweet.:D

jettoblack
Jan 8, 2008, 08:47 PM
Just a note for all you out there, this means that the new 2.8 GHz "quad-core" model has a single four core processor sharing a single 1600 MHz bus, whereas the previous-generation "quad-core" models had two dual-core processors on two separate 1333 MHz busses. This means that for bus-intensive, multi-threaded operations, the old models will perform better. Yes, even the old 2.66 GHz model will likely be able to outrun the new 2.8 GHz model.

[snip]

Again, please note that on the lowest-end CTO model, you now have four cores sharing that single 1600 MHz bus, whereas on the previous models, you had two dual-core chips on two separate 1333 MHz busses.


This is not correct. All Intel systems to date use a single front-side bus (FSB) which is shared by all CPUs and the Northbridge (which connects to the RAM). The new systems have a single 1600MHz FSB, while the old systems had a single 1333MHz FSB. Furthermore, inside the CPU package there is a faster connection between the cores. On a dual-chip dual-core (old quad systems), inter-chip communication happens over the relatively slow FSB. On the new single-chip quad-core systems, all communication between cores is local to the single chip. Barring any bugs or driver issues, there shouldn't be any situations in which the old quad systems would be faster than the new quad systems.

Carl Spackler
Jan 8, 2008, 08:56 PM
Gamers vs. Pro users..

In the deadhead world this would be called tweakers vs. peakers.:p

I like the cut of your gibberish.

skellener
Jan 8, 2008, 08:59 PM
Since Apple released this today, it leaves more room for a big announcement on Monday!
Please let it be actual MAC related stuff and not an hour of talk about the iPhone and AppleTV.

sas76
Jan 8, 2008, 09:05 PM
Not for those who already own a monitor, or need expandability. You might as well say that apple doesn't need the imac...after all, with the Macbook it already has a "midrange model"...

Get the single quad core Mac Pro, seems good value to me. There is no room in the price structure between these and the iMac 2.8 extreme.
In Aus dollars $3289 Mac Pro
$3339 iMac

Which would you buy ?

skellener
Jan 8, 2008, 09:06 PM
I hate it when my lame ducks give me 4 more procs then before.
Now if Adobe could only get mulit-proc rendering to work on OS X in AE!!! 2-4-8 Doesn't ,matter much when the software doesn't work.

Xtremehkr
Jan 8, 2008, 09:14 PM
I'm a little disappointed that Blu Ray technology wasn't included this time around. The Mac Pros are most likely going to be the first to get that option, with the iMac following, I'm guessing.

I want to upgrade my iMac but I also want to get one with Blu Ray tech, there's no point in being stuck with old technology in a brand new iMac.

I hope that Apple starts incorporating Blu Ray soon.

Macula
Jan 8, 2008, 09:15 PM
Don't hold your breath, people have predicted this forever... the problem is that the desktop market is not a high growth market. The notebook market is... hence the emphasis on notebooks.

A midrange tower is not coming. Read my lips.

CWallace
Jan 8, 2008, 09:16 PM
I'm a little disappointed that Blu Ray technology wasn't included this time around...I hope that Apple starts incorporating Blu Ray soon.

Here is hoping 10.5.2 adds Blu-Ray support to the DVD Player application which will give Apple a(nother) reason to add the drive to the Mac Pro as a BTO option.

andy721
Jan 8, 2008, 09:18 PM
This is not the new mac pro as promised, very upset right now, where the **** is the penryn processor in these things or is that suppose to be in the crapbook pros? Why is certain applications only 2x faster instead 50+ times faster. Wow an look at that if you want the fastest one its 4k what a fu*king rip off. Come on apple I swear.

apple must be desperately in need for more income.
the new ones suppose to have the Penryn processor not the Xeon processor. I would be very mad if they didn't make a new mac pro. This is the same mac only a little faster, the newer ones suppose to be the future well also known as 3 years then replace it with the newer ones in 2011. With a smaller processor yet more powerful, it's sad that they keep upgrading the mac with something a tad bit better, they need to stop playing games and make one very nice & make it last for 10years max.
But nooooooooo, technology goes obsolete in 6months

arn
Jan 8, 2008, 09:20 PM
This is not the new mac pro as promised, very upset right now, where the **** is the penryn processor in these things or is that suppose to be in the crapbook pros?

These are the penryn processors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon#5400-series_Penryn_based_Xeons

arn

andy721
Jan 8, 2008, 09:21 PM
Here is hoping 10.5.2 adds Blu-Ray support to the DVD Player application which will give Apple a(nother) reason to add the drive to the Mac Pro as a BTO option.

They already have the blu ray support for the Toast Titanium application for apple, apple needs to stop dickin around!

andy721
Jan 8, 2008, 09:21 PM
These are the penryn processors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon#5400-series_Penryn_based_Xeons

arn

where does it say that in the apple store?

offwidafairies
Jan 8, 2008, 09:25 PM
im excited for everyone who has been hanging out for this forever.

jnc
Jan 8, 2008, 09:26 PM
where does it say that in the apple store?

It doesn't. But then, it doesn't call the iMacs Yonah or whatever either.

arn
Jan 8, 2008, 09:28 PM
where does it say that in the apple store?

http://www.apple.com/macpro/technology/processor.html
Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Harpertown” processors

Harpertown is a Penryn chip.

arn

andy721
Jan 8, 2008, 09:33 PM
Hi, my name is Chris. Welcome to Apple!
Good evening.
How may I help you today?

•Can you lower the price on the new mac pros a little bit more then the student discount or no?

No, I don't have any way to do that

•ok thank you

What a jerk he needs to be fired :)

Fejuto
Jan 8, 2008, 09:34 PM
I'm waiting for a macbook pro update, when that happens i'll buy it instantly.
I think the new mac is cool and such. But this release combined with the rumors about a new small lightweight macbook makes me a bit sad because i don't think they will update the macbook pro soon :(

Roy
Jan 8, 2008, 09:36 PM
Ordered mine today.... pretty darn pumped really....

I've been waiting for this machine for quite a while, as a workstation for my recording studio, and the update suits me fine really.... All i really wanted was some current horsepower for the price, and its certainly there. Twice the cores at a faster speed, twice the ram, and more HD for just a tiny bit more than the old base model....

Here's a hint for anyone considering a purchase -

An Apple Developer Connection "Select" membership will cost you $500, and will give you a 'one-time select member hardware discount'. The discount you get with it will save you at least $500 on a base mac pro, and even more on a tricked out one. After upping my hard disks and adding a wireless mouse and keyboard my 'select' price in canadian dollars wasn't even back up to the retail base price..... Basically if you were going to order retail anyway you'll be getting the select membership for free, or even saving a bit of money. The membership has some perks for attending events, and access to lots of extra downloads, including developer use full versions of the client and server versions of tiger and leopard.... Lots of other goodies too....

Food for thought....

-N

You happen to have a live link you can post? I heard of this before, but I can never find anything on Apple's site pertaining to selecting a membership and paying a fee of $500. It is probably there, but I never have found it.

arn
Jan 8, 2008, 09:37 PM
You happen to have a live link you can post? I heard of this before, but I can never find anything on Apple's site pertaining to selecting a membership and paying a fee of $500. It is probably there, but I never have found it.

http://developer.apple.com/products/select.html

It's a developer's membership.

arn

jragosta
Jan 8, 2008, 09:39 PM
IF Apple was interested in filling this role, you know what they'd do? They'd let you change the Mac Pro to a Core Duo chip and let you save $1,000. Bingo: Instant $1,800 tower.

You can downgrade to a single quad for $2299.

The number of people whose needs are not met by either the iMac or a single quad is infinitesimal. Apple can't make everyone happy - nor should they try.

The Mac Pros are most likely going to be the first to get that option, with the iMac following, I'm guessing.

Why? The most logical place for Blu-Ray is the Apple TV. After that, the iMac.

The only people needing Blu-Ray on the Pro towers can afford to add a Blu-Ray drive.

kirkbross
Jan 8, 2008, 09:44 PM
The only thing I'm trying to find out is if the 3.0 is the 80w or 120w Penryn?

Anyone know for sure? Calling Apple did no good and the manual doesn't say.

acslater017
Jan 8, 2008, 09:50 PM
Since Apple released this today, it leaves more room for a big announcement on Monday!

yea that's what i'm thinking. they must need all the Keynote time they can get! :)

zedsdead
Jan 8, 2008, 09:53 PM
yea that's what i'm thinking. they must need all the Keynote time they can get! :)

From the latest surge of info, it seems three major things are happening:

(1) iTunes 7.6 with Rental Support (HD hopefully is coming, although there are no rumors about it) which should be tied into new Apple TV features.

(2) Some kind of Ultra-Portable Mac with the possibility of a Macbook Pro Redesign.

(3) iPhone 1.1.3 or later firmware update with a possible run through of the SDK.

Everything else seems really up in the air, so it should be a very interesting keynote. I do not expect Blu-Ray to enter the Apple TV for a while, let alone a DVD drive (although I do want one in it so I can ditch my DVD player). It is somewhat ridiculous that people can spend $15,000 on a custom Mac Pro and not get a Blu-Ray or HD DVD drive...but whatever, I really don't care, I just want HD on iTunes.

jnc
Jan 8, 2008, 09:55 PM
Hi, my name is Chris. Welcome to Apple!
Good evening.
How may I help you today?

•Can you lower the price on the new mac pros a little bit more then the student discount or no?

No, I don't have any way to do that

•ok thank you

What a jerk he needs to be fired :)

lol, wtf are you talking about??

gwangung
Jan 8, 2008, 09:55 PM
http://www.apple.com/macpro/technology/processor.html
Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Harpertown” processors

Harpertown is a Penryn chip.

arn

In other words, these ARE the Penryn chips you were looking for, Master Kenobi...

GregPacker
Jan 8, 2008, 09:57 PM
The terms of the ADC discount say this:

Your ADC Membership may permit you to purchase a limited number of development systems at a discount. A system is equivalent to one (1) CPU with one (1) display; one (1) iMac; or one (1) portable.

Reading this literally it suggests that you would need two ADC discounts if you were buying a two CPU Mac Pro, and maybe that you would need to buy a display at the same time? Do Apple ever interpret it like that, or can you use the single ADC discount from the "select" package to get ~20% off a Mac Pro with no display?

MattInOz
Jan 8, 2008, 09:57 PM
Wasn't there anyone else that saw the pic and thought that they added a glossy black coat to the interior well??? I thought they did and went.... COOL, they are adding the new theme. But NO :( I think they should have, it looks HOT. Am I alone?

A while back there was a photo of about 5 racks worth Xserve and Xraid on the Apple site, that had the same "now in black" look. Sexy no doubt, but all just a trick of the light sadly.

cthorp
Jan 8, 2008, 10:02 PM
I think it's kind of humorous how people beg for a mid-range computer but complain about mid-range graphics. I think Apple learned a long time ago about the mid-range market. Remember Performas. Then everyone complains about the wimpy performance. It also serves to confuse customers. I bet it's actually a pretty small market of people who want to "build" their own mid-range machine. Now there's an aspiration for you! I think most of the modders look to the high end for games.

Xtremehkr
Jan 8, 2008, 10:03 PM
Why? The most logical place for Blu-Ray is the Apple TV. After that, the iMac.

The only people needing Blu-Ray on the Pro towers can afford to add a Blu-Ray drive.

I think that DVDs are going to start being phased out here shortly by the next gen technology, which appears to be Blu Ray. I don't know how Apple plans to implement Blu Ray technology (at this point I doubt it's going to be HD DVD). It may be a BTO option for Mac Pros first and iMacs later, or it may be implemented across the board.

Either way, we're so close to transitioning to the next level of optical storage that I was hoping it would appear with this update, because I am waiting for that implementation before I update my iMac.

The AppleTV may get a little pricey with a Blu Ray drive. AppleTV seems to be primarily an extension of iTunes and the ever expanding variety of media available through iTunes.

Roy
Jan 8, 2008, 10:10 PM
http://developer.apple.com/products/select.html

It's a developer's membership.

arn


I priced out 2 Mac Pros using the Developers Store and using Apple's Educator's Store. I left out buying a display because it was more expensive in the Developer's Store than on the Educators Store.

Using the 2.8 Quad and the accessories I would buy, I would save $25 dollars going with the Developers Store (adding the $499 fee to the price)

Using the 3.2 Quad and the accessories I would buy, the Developer's Store was $133 cheaper after adding in the $499 fee.

THX1139
Jan 8, 2008, 10:14 PM
Wasn't there anyone else that saw the pic and thought that they added a glossy black coat to the interior well??? I thought they did and went.... COOL, they are adding the new theme. But NO :( I think they should have, it looks HOT. Am I alone?

I'm not a scientist, but I think that is something known as a "shadow."

MattInOz
Jan 8, 2008, 10:15 PM
In other words, these ARE the Penryn chips you were looking for, Master Kenobi...

I think the give away is the
"Intel 1600 MHz front-side bus Xeon processors will drop into the upcoming Seaburg chipset. Seaburg features support for dual PCIe 2.0 x16 slots and up to 128 GB of memory"

Oh and none of the 45nm Penryns are able to do dual processor config's.

THX1139
Jan 8, 2008, 10:18 PM
This is not the new mac pro as promised, very upset right now, where the **** is the penryn processor in these things or is that suppose to be in the crapbook pros? Why is certain applications only 2x faster instead 50+ times faster. Wow an look at that if you want the fastest one its 4k what a fu*king rip off. Come on apple I swear.

apple must be desperately in need for more income.
the new ones suppose to have the Penryn processor not the Xeon processor. I would be very mad if they didn't make a new mac pro. This is the same mac only a little faster, the newer ones suppose to be the future well also known as 3 years then replace it with the newer ones in 2011. With a smaller processor yet more powerful, it's sad that they keep upgrading the mac with something a tad bit better, they need to stop playing games and make one very nice & make it last for 10years max.
But nooooooooo, technology goes obsolete in 6months

You should cut back on the caffeine dude. I think you're going to feel silly when you realize that what you wrote is all wrong.

SMM
Jan 8, 2008, 10:22 PM
No doubt it will also give a bump to Apple's lagging stock price leading into the bump MacWorld will add.

Everybody's stock stock price is lagging. Apple has been one of the best investments over the past 18-24 months. My wife and I both bought in the $38-$42 range. At the time, I was worried we were getting in late. The more I learned about the company, and realized how far ahead of the curve they were, my fears went away, and we have been rewarded by not reacting to every little bump in the road.

Apple is the best managed, engineered and innovative tech company in the world - hands down. Look at how Dell, MS, Sun, HP and many others are trying to imitate Apple. They are trying to capture some of the excitement, Apple has pioneered.

scottrichardson
Jan 8, 2008, 10:26 PM
hey guys,

2 PCI Express 2.0 16 lane slots

does that mean we could run dual 8800 GT cards? Is this the long awaited SLI support we had all hoped?

No mention at all on apple's site.. but that's two identical slots.. just one is wider than the other (surrounding space?)

Scott

filmguy15
Jan 8, 2008, 10:26 PM
Why? The most logical place for Blu-Ray is the Apple TV. After that, the iMac.

The only people needing Blu-Ray on the Pro towers can afford to add a Blu-Ray drive.

Yeah....Apple TV with a blu-ray player. Then an iPod with a CD drive....come on....

SirHaakon
Jan 8, 2008, 10:36 PM
Why? The most logical place for Blu-Ray is the Apple TV. After that, the iMac.
With all due respect, I couldn't disagree more. The Mac Pro is aimed largely at creative content developers; power users who design and manipulate multimedia material. It is the pro user who needs a Blu-ray burner for authoring high definition video or backing up large amounts of data to optical disc for storage. While this doesn't mean that an iMac user would never be interested in these kinds of applications, the price premium that a BD-R drive commands even at this point would raise the cost of the system above what the "basic" user would be willing to pay. It's clear by Apple's offerings of a $2,600 video card, however, that the Mac Pro is the system which will accept the pricey BTO options regardless of the cost. At the very least, it makes no sense in offering such a drive to an iMac user and NOT a Pro user.

The only reason I believe they have left the drive out - even as an upgrade - is that their own DVD Studio Pro software can't even author simple Blu-ray discs yet. It would cause way too much hassle for Apple to offer a drive that the manufacturer's software can't take advantage of. I'm bummed, too, but my guess is we'll see drives appear when their software finally catches up.

goodcow
Jan 8, 2008, 10:38 PM
Wow, the ADC pricing is insane.

ADC: $2239
Edu: $2599
Standard: $2799

Anyone in college should just buy a $99 student ADC membership and they still save a bunch of money on the MacPro.

It also shows how crazy Apple's margins are, and makes you wonder if they had ADC pricing for everyone if they'd be at 20% marketshare already.

hempcamp
Jan 8, 2008, 10:42 PM
I'm quite pleased with this update, as it seems quite a value despite its high price compared to previous revisions.

Oh how I miss the days of upgradeability -- so much so I'm considering the single CPU quad-core version of this or a now-reduced-price quad core 2.0 model instead of an iMac or Mac Mini because it will last me so much longer.

--Chris

Freis968
Jan 8, 2008, 10:44 PM
Hi Freis968. I'm not sure if this helps, but the following is an earlier post I saw that mentioned something that might be a good idea.

Thanks Purkey, but I have one question...WHAT IN THE HELL IS HE TALKING ABOUT?

Freis968
Jan 8, 2008, 10:45 PM
Shrug. Not much difference between an option to add and an option to subtract. But most things are options to add, probably because it lets them keep the base price (the one they advertise) lower. And they probably figure that more people are going to be using it wired than not (for one thing, if you're actually doing significant local network traffic, it's going to be a lot faster over ethernet). And you'll notice that you can't subtract Bluetooth, whereas wi-fi is actually an option. Honestly, I'm really not sure why you're complaining about having to click a radio button.

IT MEANS EVERYTHING TO ME...:)

Supa_Fly
Jan 8, 2008, 10:47 PM
Now this is what the OT & Holiday pay is for ... if ONLY I knew ahead of time. Oh well there IS this months OT and next months. Then I'll FINALLY have a MAC PRO!

FINALLY!

Now Love how when you save an image of the XServe the name has "hero" in it :)

mdntcallr
Jan 8, 2008, 10:49 PM
It is a nice machine, though i am disappointed in the following:

1- No Blu-Ray reader or Burner option
2- No new Monitors to take advantage of HDMI inputs with Speakers integrated

soe nice sides to the new model. I would be interested, but i want the options i am mentioning.

I am sitting on my wallet until Blu-Ray !

But... the shipping time on these models are 3-5 weeks. who knows what the news at Macworld will be.

My hope is some of the above

kaneda
Jan 8, 2008, 10:58 PM
Where is the new MAC pro redesign? This case is old... I am waiting for the new one before I purchase a new computer. The last time I bought new computer 6 months later they came out the G5... That is like loonnng time ago...

Freis968
Jan 8, 2008, 11:03 PM
Ok, do you think my CONFIGURE NOW Mac Pro I just ordered will do the job for me? I just need to type emails to my friend in Jacksonville and want to make sure I have enough power to do so...:)


Summary

Subtotal $23,197.00
Estimated Ship:
3-5 weeks
Free Shipping
Next business day delivery available

Specifications

Two 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (8-core)
32GB (8 x 4GB)
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 1.5GB (Stereo 3D, two dual-link DVI)
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
Two 16x SuperDrives
AirPort Extreme card (Wi-Fi)
Apple wireless Mighty Mouse
Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) + Mac OS X

sas76
Jan 8, 2008, 11:05 PM
Where is the new MAC pro redesign? This case is old... I am waiting for the new one before I purchase a new computer. The last time I bought new computer 6 months later they came out the G5... That is like loonnng time ago...

I am still suprised people care what these things look like. They are a box (very well designed) to put computer bits in, nothing else. I am sure you would find most Mac pro's stuck under a desk.

Who cares...

MattInOz
Jan 8, 2008, 11:08 PM
Ok, do you think my CONFIGURE NOW Mac Pro I just ordered will do the job for me? I just need to type emails to my friend in Jacksonville and want to make sure I have enough power to do so...:)


Summary

Subtotal $23,197.00
Estimated Ship:
3-5 weeks
Free Shipping
Next business day delivery available

Specifications

Two 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (8-core)
32GB (8 x 4GB)
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 1.5GB (Stereo 3D, two dual-link DVI)
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
Two 16x SuperDrives
AirPort Extreme card (Wi-Fi)
Apple wireless Mighty Mouse
Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) + Mac OS X

I think your storage needs would be volume over access time.
Maybe the 4x 1TB 7,500rpm would be a better choice?

iSee
Jan 8, 2008, 11:11 PM
The terms of the ADC discount say this:

Your ADC Membership may permit you to purchase a limited number of development systems at a discount. A system is equivalent to one (1) CPU with one (1) display; one (1) iMac; or one (1) portable.

Reading this literally it suggests that you would need two ADC discounts if you were buying a two CPU Mac Pro, and maybe that you would need to buy a display at the same time? Do Apple ever interpret it like that, or can you use the single ADC discount from the "select" package to get ~20% off a Mac Pro with no display?

That's funny... but don't worry, Apple doesn't interpret it that way: a Mac Pro
counts as one system, even when it includes 2 CPUs.

tirerim
Jan 8, 2008, 11:28 PM
I love to swap or change out hardware like the rest of you; Probably why one of my first Mac's was a PowerMac, but I am a total convert to the iMac after I gave the 24" a shot.

It is what it is, an all in one machine that performs and functions perfect for what it was designed for.

If people need to add to the baseline hardware of a top end iMac, then they naturally shouldn't be in the mid-range market.

So ultimately, it isn't the iMac's problem, its just the user is trying to use it for something it was never intended for.

iMac preaching complete.

There are two main problems with the iMac. One is that while it's a fine computer now, two or three years down the line you can't extend its life with some upgrades. The other is that monitors go obsolete slower than computers, so it doesn't make sense to have to buy a new monitor every four or five years.

Realistically, I think that either the single-chip Mac Pro or the Mac Mini will serve most people's needs if they don't want an iMac (the Mac Mini isn't upgradeable, but you can also afford to replace it a lot more often), so it makes sense for Apple to keep their product line as it is. But there will always be a few people for whom that doesn't apply.

(Oh, and if the current iMacs are anything like the original ones, they are upgradeable... it's just really annoying. On my old lime iMac G3, I maxed out the RAM (over a series of three separate upgrades), installed a bigger hard drive, replaced the CMOS battery after it died, and finally upgraded the fan to a quieter one. The last involved removing the entire case along with about 30 screws, and being very careful around the CRT. But it still works, and it happily runs Ubuntu.)

mixel
Jan 8, 2008, 11:34 PM
Why is certain applications only 2x faster instead 50+ times faster. Wow an look at that if you want the fastest one its 4k what a fu*king rip off. Come on apple I swear.
.. I wish yearly updates offered 50x performance boosts too. :rolleyes:

Seems pretty decent value to me! Cheaper than before, more powerful than before.

If I had the spare cash I'd be all over this to replace my poor old 1.8 dual G5.

darthraige
Jan 8, 2008, 11:34 PM
I am still suprised people care what these things look like. They are a box (very well designed) to put computer bits in, nothing else. I am sure you would find most Mac pro's stuck under a desk.

Who cares...

I agree... Also, its still the most badass looking machine on the planet. It's scary looking. Can not wait to purchase this. Just waiting for my credit card to show up. :D

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 8, 2008, 11:36 PM
I'd love to see this too, but I don't imagine Apple doing that. They seem to be fixated on form -- smallest size above all else. The Mac mini was a new product and it was created from scratch. There was no reason why they couldn't have dimensioned it to use full-size 3.5" hard drives in the first place. Instead they chose to use smaller laptop drives because they insisted on making it as small as they could. Now that they've established that footprint (Mac mini, Apple TV, Airport Extreme) I don't see them suddenly introducing a bigger one just so we can have what we want.

Heck, it would have been a LOT cheaper for them to use commodity 3.5" drives instead of expensive laptop drives. The fact that they didn't strongly suggests to me that they really, really care about making it small, to the extent that they're willing to sacrifice cost and performance.

Which, if you think about it, really describes Apple's design decisions lately. Make it look good, no matter what.

Too bad. I'd have bought one as a server if it had an internal 3.5" drive.

You are forgetting about heat and power consumption, when you add a 3.5" desktop class HDD and or a dedicated GPU even with a little larger case you are going to generate a lot of heat. To counter that you have to add a fan or two and then you have a noisy machine, to make matters worse you also have to up the power supply. Before you know it you will be asking for the option to add another HDD and that will lead you to the MP line.

Don't are for the GPU, however will agree that a 3.5" 7200 rpm HDD would be appreciated.

I would have to agree with this. I know a lot of people here are looking for a "mid range" computer other than the iMac, and I would agree with them, but the absolute minimum price on the Mac Pro (with one 2.8 GHz processor) gives you the same price as the high end iMac. So to me it doesn't look like there's room between those two. On the other hand I can understand still wanting something cheaper than $2,299 but also upgradeable.

the mid-range headless iMac, or whatever you want to call it is actually been released today, its the single quad-core bto. This makes more sense to house it in the same casing as the rest of the MP as it reduces cost for R&D, redesign, testing, production, shipping, advertising, and the list goes on.

Cheaper to have the same MP case and give the end user more options or similar options to upgrade when compared to the rest of the product line.

Apple is wise to reuse the same MP case for a mid-range model. Consumers are too blind to notice or see the possibilities. Do not need another G4 Cube.

I believe there is some kind of vibe going across the world -- you're like the seventy forth person to say this exact same thing :eek: I'm starting to believe it's true :rolleyes:

The "Vibe" occurs with every Apple event may it be MWSF or WWDC or MW Paris. When can I say Fan's. ;) :D

MacFly123
Jan 8, 2008, 11:39 PM
I'm not a scientist, but I think that is something known as a "shadow."

WOW, thank you for clearing that up. It is a very dark shadow, so at first glance I just automatically assumed they added the black border that all the other products are getting or will get because that is the new design theme and the new materials. I didn't think about it till I saw the other pics. I'm not an idiot. And I wasn't the only one. It would look much better if they did I think, look at it, it would fit the new iMac theme very nicely ;)

bigwig
Jan 8, 2008, 11:41 PM
Is there some new chip from intel arriving this summer?
Nehalem was scheduled for second-half of '08. August '08 would qualify.

!¡ V ¡!
Jan 8, 2008, 11:44 PM
I agree... Also, its still the most badass looking machine on the planet. It's scary looking. Can not wait to purchase this. Just waiting for my credit card to show up. :D

reason why Apple has not updated any of the casings on most of its products, is because its trying to cut costs to design and produce a new case every 2-3 years in its previous track record, this added extra cost to the consumers.

Apple is trying to save the consumer money by not redesigning often enough, take the same amount or a little less profit margin to please its shareholders and sustain company growth and in the end you have happy customers (generally happy and most of them).

We can all agree that Apple product line has come down in price when compared to the past, however that is the nature of technology, one also has to factor in that since the past Apple has also grown into many other business ventures yet still dropping prices and offering more to its customers.

If the customer(s) want to pay more for a new product casing every 2-3 years then I am sure Apple will not mind delivering on that objective.

redesigning the MP when its already a great industrial design (maybe reduce its dimensions a little and change the handle design), plus for a machine that is heavy and big which will normally be kept on the floor or under a desk, seems almost pointless to redesign for the cost to consumers.

tirerim
Jan 8, 2008, 11:49 PM
I am still suprised people care what these things look like. They are a box (very well designed) to put computer bits in, nothing else. I am sure you would find most Mac pro's stuck under a desk.

Who cares...

Hey now. My G5 is next to my desk; when it was under my desk I kept bumping into it with my knees. :-P

Redneck1089
Jan 8, 2008, 11:52 PM
If I hear one more complaint about a Mac Pro after this update, I'm going to go ballistic.

Their GPU options still suck you know what.



What's that you say? It's not a gaming machine? It's a workhorse? Oh my...excuse me for wanting my computer for both work and play. I guess that really is asking for too much.

I love Apple's products, but I'm not a blind fanboy; these computers are still lacking in some areas--overpriced Apple memory & medium range GPU options.

WildPalms
Jan 9, 2008, 12:18 AM
I hope so too!



it's the only mid range option right now, which kinda sucks... you can't change anything on the imac other than the ram ... what if you have a need for a PCI-X card or something ... i want to add a second internal hard drive ....


...then you put those in your Mac Pro?

Bigheadache
Jan 9, 2008, 12:21 AM
The GPU options are reasonable for the time being. The 8800GT 512 is pretty close to Nvidia's top end right now. Bear in mind that the 8800GTX and 8800 Ultra are both EOL now.

The new high end Ati and Nvidia cards are still a couple of months away, which is bad timing for Apple i guess.

phjo
Jan 9, 2008, 12:27 AM
I probably will buy a mac pro anyway, but this is overkill...

For someone like me who need more than 4Gb of ram and who'll never buy a pc, there is no alternative but to buy a mac pro... Seeing the pricelist for the penryn xeon processors when they were announced last november made me hope for a nice entry level mac pro with two 2,5Ghz (E5420) quadcore xeons...

The price differential is huge with the 2,8Ghz apple is advertising, although of course we won't know what apple is paying...

Even if I configure a macpro with only 6Gb of ram to begin with (2Gb apple and 4Gb third party) the price premium with what could have been a 8-core 2,5Ghz xeon is probably over 1000€... (it will be a little less in a few weeks maybe, when more third party 800 mhz dimms are available here...)

And for what ? 15% faster computer ?

I'll wait for WWDC to order one of course... dreaming that maybe apple kept the macpro at this level in order to introduce a midrange apple desktop... (Probably not, I know, but it would be stupid not to wait a few more days...)

phjo

Anonymous Freak
Jan 9, 2008, 12:39 AM
This is not correct. All Intel systems to date use a single front-side bus (FSB) which is shared by all CPUs and the Northbridge (which connects to the RAM). The new systems have a single 1600MHz FSB, while the old systems had a single 1333MHz FSB. Furthermore, inside the CPU package there is a faster connection between the cores. On a dual-chip dual-core (old quad systems), inter-chip communication happens over the relatively slow FSB. On the new single-chip quad-core systems, all communication between cores is local to the single chip. Barring any bugs or driver issues, there shouldn't be any situations in which the old quad systems would be faster than the new quad systems.

Sorry, but no.

Starting with the Intel 5000X (http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/5000x/index.htm) chipset (the chipset used in the original Mac Pro,) Intel uses "dual independent busses". This means each processor socket has its own bus. In the old Mac Pro, it was a 1333 MHz bus going to either two cores or four cores per socket. In the new Mac Pro (which uses the newer 5400 (http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/5400/index.htm) chipset,) it is a 1600 MHz bus going to four cores per socket.

In addition, Intel's dual-core chips do all their inter-core communication on-die via their shared L2 cache, but all of Intel's quad-core chips are really just two dual-core chips in one package. Each dual-core sub-chip can communicate with its pair internally, but communication between sub-chips (say between core 1 and core 3,) is through the main front side bus. This is why the older two dual-core chips over two 1333 MHz busses might be faster at some tasks than the newer single quad-core chip over a single 1600 MHz bus.

Because in the old Mac Pro, if communication is between two cores on the same chip, it was entirely internal, and the two separate chips could talk to the memory controller at 1333 MHz completely independently of each other; although communication between dual-core chips had to travel over two separate 1333 MHz busses. On the new Mac Pro, both dual-core sub-chips have to share the same 1600 MHz bus to talk to the memory controller, but they also communicate with each other through it. So if you need absolute maximum memory bandwidth, the older system (four total cores only;) will do better. For any other purpose, the new one is better, even for inter-sub-chip communication, because now there is a 1600 MHz bus that communication only has to go from sub-chip to Northbridge, back to second sub-chip; whereas on an older system, it had to go from chip to Northbridge, across to a second bus when it's available, to second chip.

WildPalms
Jan 9, 2008, 12:44 AM
I think your storage needs would be volume over access time.
Maybe the 4x 1TB 7,500rpm would be a better choice?

...or its time to look for a small SAN.

Cinch
Jan 9, 2008, 12:49 AM
Isn't "standard option" an oxymoron? just curious:D I guess in the parlance of marketing, anything is possible.

SPUY767
Jan 9, 2008, 12:51 AM
Looks like Apple redesigned the memory cards to face each other instead of stacked upwards.

Probably for better cooling.

Their GPU options still suck you know what.



What's that you say? It's not a gaming machine? It's a workhorse? Oh my...excuse me for wanting my computer for both work and play. I guess that really is asking for too much.

I love Apple's products, but I'm not a blind fanboy; these computers are still lacking in some areas--overpriced Apple memory & medium range GPU options.

Nothing stopping you from dropping a 8800Ultra in there and getting an extra 10% performance.

Anonymous Freak
Jan 9, 2008, 12:52 AM
Their GPU options still suck you know what.

How do they suck? Please, enlighten us. While they are not the absolute top-of-the-line $600 cards (Oh, wait, we have the Quadro for that,) the 8800 GT is the best bang-for-the-buck card on the market right now. (Seconded by the apparently-about-to-be-announced Radeon 3870.)

Really, if you're such a gaming snob that you *HAVE* to have the 8800 GTX or Ultra, that an 8800 GT isn't good enough for you, then what the <expletive> are you even doing posting about it? I'm sorry, but this just strikes as "Apple sucks!" anti-fanboism.

I will freely admit that it would be nice to have CrossFire support, but for all we know, that's coming along with the announcement (officially) of the Radeon 3870 next week.

Oh, and if you *really* want to do gaming, the Quadro outperforms (http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/40/5) the 8800 GTX. It should outperform the 8800 Ultra, also, but I can't find any direct comparison benchmarks.

By the way, the absolute lowest price I could find for the Quadro FX 5600 is $2600, so Apple's $2850 upgrade cost isn't too terribly out of line. And while Apple doesn't mention it, the Quadro FX 5600 is capable of running TWO 9 megapixel displays. (Two of the monster quad-HD 3840x2400 displays like the Viewsonic VP2290.)

MattInOz
Jan 9, 2008, 12:53 AM
reason why Apple has not updated any of the casings on most of its products, is because its trying to cut costs to design and produce a new case every 2-3 years in its previous track record, this added extra cost to the consumers.

Apple is trying to save the consumer money by not redesigning often enough, take the same amount or a little less profit margin to please its shareholders and sustain company growth and in the end you have happy customers (generally happy and most of them).

We can all agree that Apple product line has come down in price when compared to the past, however that is the nature of technology, one also has to factor in that since the past Apple has also grown into many other business ventures yet still dropping prices and offering more to its customers.

If the customer(s) want to pay more for a new product casing every 2-3 years then I am sure Apple will not mind delivering on that objective.

redesigning the MP when its already a great industrial design (maybe reduce its dimensions a little and change the handle design), plus for a machine that is heavy and big which will normally be kept on the floor or under a desk, seems almost pointless to redesign for the cost to consumers.


I don't understand why people think this case has been around that long.
The previous design basic shell was introduced with a Ad showing Tanks, a G3 processor that broke the 1Gflop mark. Not long after the return of His Steveness.

The same case with different doors and fronts and apple logo colours must have been around for 6-7 years. The current case a very good 2-3 years left in it, and even then if there is a compelling reason to redesign, like the MB access improvements of the G3-G4 case or the air flow improvements of the Current Case.

Anonymous Freak
Jan 9, 2008, 12:53 AM
Isn't "standard option" an oxymoron? just curious:D I guess in the parlance of marketing, anything is possible.

And (as has been pointed out to me,) pointing this out after it's already been mentioned at least twice in the thread is rather annoying, as well. :D

Decrepit
Jan 9, 2008, 12:55 AM
reason why Apple has not updated any of the casings on most of its products, is because its trying to cut costs to design and produce a new case every 2-3 years in its previous track record, this added extra cost to the consumers.

Apple is trying to save the consumer money by not redesigning often enough, take the same amount or a little less profit margin to please its shareholders and sustain company growth and in the end you have happy customers (generally happy and most of them).

We can all agree that Apple product line has come down in price when compared to the past, however that is the nature of technology, one also has to factor in that since the past Apple has also grown into many other business ventures yet still dropping prices and offering more to its customers.

If the customer(s) want to pay more for a new product casing every 2-3 years then I am sure Apple will not mind delivering on that objective.

redesigning the MP when its already a great industrial design (maybe reduce its dimensions a little and change the handle design), plus for a machine that is heavy and big which will normally be kept on the floor or under a desk, seems almost pointless to redesign for the cost to consumers.

I don't know if you have experience in the chassis design and qualification realm, but you're right on.

The expense of getting a chassis designed that can pass FCC certifications, safety regulations, and be mass produced is unreal. Some people think that a case is just $20 worth of aluminum because they see them that cheap at the store.

I don't know if the Apple cases are built this way, but some manufacturers have designed their machines to completely self contain a fire that is started from within. It wasn't advertised, but it was a way to have a pretty good indication of insurance / lawsuit fraud. Customers calling up to say that a machine torched their desk, papers, carpet, drapes, etc. We'd get pictures and the fire department's report. And every single time, it was found that something started the fire from outside of the case, and in most situations it was purposely set.

That kind of work is very expensive, and is a good reason to not redesign a chassis every year.

shacklebolt3
Jan 9, 2008, 01:05 AM
I visited my local :apple: store at the Biltmore in Phoenix last Saturday and I saw a guy, who looked to be about 25, buying a new Mac Pro and a Cinema Display I almost walked up to him to tell him not to buy it, and to wait until the 15th, but I thought the salesperson would have been offended so I didn't. I guess I should have told him to wait. I'm sorry Mr. I-just-bought-a-new-Mac-Pro-and-3-days-later-it's-outdated. ;(

thegman1234
Jan 9, 2008, 01:20 AM
Don't forget the new support for 32 GB of RAM. Yum :)

That is new right? I thought it was.

Thanks to my roommate, I caught this earlier today but being as I don't know too much about the Mac Pro I wasn't sure of the significance, so I didn't want to start a new thread.

He mentioned to me that the Mac Pro supported 32 gigs of ram, and after I went to Apple's site I noticed some changes. Along with the obvious change that the 8-core is the "standard model", I noticed 1tb drives BTO, and a few other small, and most likely insignificant changes, such as bluetooth not being an option. I guess it's standard now?

Evangelion
Jan 9, 2008, 01:47 AM
And I want a million dollars.

None of this has any bearing on what Apple will actually do. THEY think the iMac fills the needs of everyone who isn't a Mac Pro buyer.

They feel that way right up until the point when they launch a new product-line. Remember: before Apple released the Mini, they obviously felt that Powermac and iMac was enough for everyone. But they obviously changed their minds. What makes you think that they couldn't change their minds again?

THEY have made their feelings on this quite clear again and again.

And before they released the Mini, they made it quite clear again and again and again that their product-lineup consists of professional desktop and laptop, and a consumer desktop and laptop, nothing else.

In order for that to happen, they would have to drastically change their view of the iMac. I haven't seen any indication that this has happened.

It has happened in the past.

IF Apple was interested in filling this role, you know what they'd do? They'd let you change the Mac Pro to a Core Duo chip and let you save $1,000. Bingo: Instant $1,800 tower.

Not quite. You would still have that workstation-spec chipset, FB-DIMMs and other stsuff that would be completely useless in a consumer-desktop.

They didn't do that today. You know why? It's because they think the iMac is all you need.

And before they released the Mini, you could have said the exact same thing. And then they released the Mini.

SirHaakon
Jan 9, 2008, 02:02 AM
That kind of work is very expensive, and is a good reason to not redesign a chassis every year.
Every year, no. But at least once every five! The current case looks nearly identical to the Power Mac G5 that was introduced back in 2003. In computer years, that's an eternity.

Whether or not you think the cheese grater look is aesthetically pleasing, the Mac Pro does stand as one of the largest, heaviest towers on the market. With the introduction of smaller chips that require less power and put out less heat, it would be nice to see at least a modest reduction in form factor.

tirerim
Jan 9, 2008, 02:04 AM
I visited my local :apple: store at the Biltmore in Phoenix last Saturday and I saw a guy, who looked to be about 25, buying a new Mac Pro and a Cinema Display I almost walked up to him to tell him not to buy it, and to wait until the 15th, but I thought the salesperson would have been offended so I didn't. I guess I should have told him to wait. I'm sorry Mr. I-just-bought-a-new-Mac-Pro-and-3-days-later-it's-outdated. ;(

Enh, if he cares, he's well within the exchange period.

tirerim
Jan 9, 2008, 02:09 AM
Every year, no. But at least once every five! The current case looks nearly identical to the Power Mac G5 that was introduced back in 2003. In computer years, that's an eternity.

Whether or not you think the cheese grater look is aesthetically pleasing, the Mac Pro does stand as one of the largest, heaviest towers on the market. With the introduction of smaller chips that require less power and put out less heat, it would be nice to see at least a modest reduction in form factor.

True, it is very heavy, but I'm not sure that a reduction in size is really called for. It seems that with the increase in internal space it's gotten easier to add more internal hard drives and such, and I can't see that as a problem. Given all the people complaining about how they can't upgrade an iMac, imagine what they'd say if they couldn't fit their four TB of disk in along with their two optical drives and two graphics cards. ;-)

Also, it makes it harder to steal. It's hard to make a fast getaway carrying a 50 pound computer. :-)

Redneck1089
Jan 9, 2008, 02:31 AM
Probably for better cooling.



Nothing stopping you from dropping a 8800Ultra in there and getting an extra 10% performance.

Except that I wouldn't be able to use the card under OS X because Apple insists on writing it's own drivers, so it would be a huge pain switching back and forth between GPU's.

Redneck1089
Jan 9, 2008, 02:51 AM
How do they suck? Please, enlighten us. While they are not the absolute top-of-the-line $600 cards (Oh, wait, we have the Quadro for that,) the 8800 GT is the best bang-for-the-buck card on the market right now. (Seconded by the apparently-about-to-be-announced Radeon 3870.)

Really, if you're such a gaming snob that you *HAVE* to have the 8800 GTX or Ultra, that an 8800 GT isn't good enough for you, then what the <expletive> are you even doing posting about it? I'm sorry, but this just strikes as "Apple sucks!" anti-fanboism.

I will freely admit that it would be nice to have CrossFire support, but for all we know, that's coming along with the announcement (officially) of the Radeon 3870 next week.

Oh, and if you *really* want to do gaming, the Quadro
outperforms (http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/40/5) the 8800 GTX. It should outperform the 8800 Ultra, also, but I can't find any direct comparison benchmarks.

By the way, the absolute lowest price I could find for the Quadro FX 5600 is $2600, so Apple's $2850 upgrade cost isn't too terribly out of line. And while Apple doesn't mention it, the Quadro FX 5600 is capable of running TWO 9 megapixel displays. (Two of the monster quad-HD 3840x2400 displays like the Viewsonic VP2290.)

See, to me this is the typical fanboyism that I hate, and to you i seem like the typical anti-fanboy. I can tell you right now that i'm not against Apple, especially since all of my computers are Apples. I just don't believe in praising them when they make stupid-ass decisions.

Face it, more and more people who own Apple computers are wanting to play games, especially since we now have access to all the Windows games through bootcamp. Hell, some people might even buy a Mac Pro for just that reason, even if that seems ridiculous to you--that's their choice, however, and you should just be glad that they are still supporting your favorite company by buying their products. These GPU options offered by Apple are subpar and middle-of-the-the road. Granted, Nvidia's topend 8800 cards are going to be replaced in a few months, but Apple should still offer them anyways to the people who want to make their rigs as hardcore game worthy as possible rather than alienating their customers. The Quadro GPU's are just too expensive to consider unless the card is an essential component for your work, so it's not really an option and I'm not sure why you're going on about them so much.

There is nothing stopping Apple from offering better GPU's right now and then upgrading later when the next generation is released.

aaronw1986
Jan 9, 2008, 02:59 AM
Enh, if he cares, he's well within the exchange period.

Will still have to pay a restocking fee...

MacRoom
Jan 9, 2008, 03:10 AM
Thank God it's the first Tuesday of 2008. The pricing is way lower than what I thought it would be. Glad they kept the same box.

Evangelion
Jan 9, 2008, 03:20 AM
See, to me this is the typical fanboyism that I hate, and to you i seem like the typical anti-fanboy. I can tell you right now that i'm not against Apple, especially since all of my computers are Apples. I just don't believe in praising them when they make stupid-ass decisions.

Well, the thing is that Mac Pro is not meant for gaming. Sure, some people might buy one and use it primarily for just that. But that does not change the fact that it's not designed for that task. It's a workstation, and it's designed for workstation-workloads. And that does not include gaming.

you say that not including a better vid-card is a "stupid-ass" decision. to use a car-analogy, it was a stupid-ass decision by Ferrari when they didn't include a towball and a huge trunk to their latest sportscar.

Face it, more and more people who own Apple computers are wanting to play games

That's nice. And because of that, Apple should design their _workstations_ with gamers in mind?

These GPU options offered by Apple are subpar and middle-of-the-the road.

These GPU's that Apple offer are suitable for the intended workloads Mac Pro has been designed for. They might not be suitable for some other workloads, but that's 100% irrelevant.

Granted, Nvidia's topend 8800 cards are going to be replaced in a few months, but Apple should still offer them anyways to the people who want to make their rigs as hardcore game worthy as possible rather than alienating their customers.

Mac Pro's are not meant for gaming, therefore it's pointless to whine about lack of gaming-related functionality in Mac Pro's.

The Quadro GPU's are just too expensive to consider unless the card is an essential component for your work

And for many people who buy Mac Pro's, it is.

spetznatz
Jan 9, 2008, 03:21 AM
Anyone know if you buy the single processor (Quad) model, is it the same mobo or have they made a single processor version just for this almost unadvertised version?

If it is the same, what are the chances adding a second processor in a year or two once the prices have dropped would be possible? Would seem like a good plan for me. Much as I would like a Mac Pro £1750 is too much for me as a student!

Many others have been thinking the same thing. The motherboard is definitely the same on the single-chip variant as on the dual-chip (they are both socket 771, someone has already addressed this on this thread).

BUT: you can bet that the single-chip model won't ship with a second, spare heatsink for you to throw a second chip under.

Maybe third parties will make these? Don't know. Pound to a pinch of ***** that Apple won't.

Edit: Of course, what I want to know, is can these Penryns be dropped into the first Mac Pros? As these new machines are socket 771 (like the orig. Mac Pros) that suggests that they can be.

ray_uk
Jan 9, 2008, 03:41 AM
:apple:

Its nearly perfect, you have a configuaration for almost every need, for instance a gamer might go for the single quad core cpu with 8800GT graphic card.

Personally I would want to do some 3D rendering and High Definition video editing and some gaming so the dual quad core with a 8800GT and 8GB of RAM would be great for me. Especially now that so many apps can utilise multi core and multiple cpu's.

Its unfortunate that multiple 8800GT's are not supported that would have put it fully on par with any SLI systems.

chedda
Jan 9, 2008, 04:18 AM
Ok, do you think my CONFIGURE NOW Mac Pro I just ordered will do the job for me? I just need to type emails to my friend in Jacksonville and want to make sure I have enough power to do so...:)


Summary

Subtotal $23,197.00
Estimated Ship:
3-5 weeks
Free Shipping
Next business day delivery available

Specifications

Two 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (8-core)
32GB (8 x 4GB)
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 1.5GB (Stereo 3D, two dual-link DVI)
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
Two 16x SuperDrives
AirPort Extreme card (Wi-Fi)
Apple wireless Mighty Mouse
Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) + Mac OS X

Your missing the raid card needed for your sas drives then you should be email ready !

Music_Producer
Jan 9, 2008, 04:36 AM
Face it, more and more people who own Apple computers are wanting to play games, especially since we now have access to all the Windows games through bootcamp. Hell, some people might even buy a Mac Pro for just that reason, even if that seems ridiculous to you--

There is nothing stopping Apple from offering better GPU's right now and then upgrading later when the next generation is released.

I am not too sure. From my experience in the music and video industry.. I have not seen anyone purchase a Mac Pro for anything other than work-related stuff. I use my mac pro only for music production. I don't bother loading windows on it. My macbook pro has Fusion on it running XP (for Quicken) .. the mac pro has TBs of audio data, virtual instruments, plug-ins, etc. So it really peeves me when I see n00bs with just a lot of money.. buy a mac pro and use it for downloading movies and complain that they don't download faster than if you were using a laptop.

If I wanted to play games, and was a serious gamer.. I'm pretty sure I would buy a PC gaming machine or a PS 3 or something. I guess some people might buy a mac pro for games.. but to me it seems like a rather ridiculous idea to waste the power of such a beast.. on.. games. :p You know, I don't think that's what Apple thought when they designed this "Hey, what do you think the gamers are going to do when they see this?"

When I think of games, I think of Alienware, PS3, Wii, Xbox 360, etc. When I think of work, massive rendering, production, etc.. I think of the Mac Pro.

spetznatz
Jan 9, 2008, 04:36 AM
>ATI Radeon HD 3870

This would be so sweet. It'd be nice to have a choice between high end Nvidia and high end ATI on the Mac Pro without having to pay a fortune for the Quadro card which most people don't need.

Historically ATI cards have been more stable under OS X than Nvidia, so if I were buying a new Mac Pro today and the 3870 were available, I'd probably go with it.

Agreed. Plus, if you use ATi cards you can use ATi Displays Control Panel to provide FSAA to apps like SketchUp -- the display is miles better with this turned on (so useful even if you're not a gamer:p). Plus you get a lot of performance / quality tweaks, as well.

DGaio
Jan 9, 2008, 04:43 AM
See, to me this is the typical fanboyism that I hate, and to you i seem like the typical anti-fanboy. I can tell you right now that i'm not against Apple, especially since all of my computers are Apples. I just don't believe in praising them when they make stupid-ass decisions.

Face it, more and more people who own Apple computers are wanting to play games, especially since we now have access to all the Windows games through bootcamp. Hell, some people might even buy a Mac Pro for just that reason, even if that seems ridiculous to you--that's their choice, however, and you should just be glad that they are still supporting your favorite company by buying their products. These GPU options offered by Apple are subpar and middle-of-the-the road. Granted, Nvidia's topend 8800 cards are going to be replaced in a few months, but Apple should still offer them anyways to the people who want to make their rigs as hardcore game worthy as possible rather than alienating their customers. The Quadro GPU's are just too expensive to consider unless the card is an essential component for your work, so it's not really an option and I'm not sure why you're going on about them so much.

There is nothing stopping Apple from offering better GPU's right now and then upgrading later when the next generation is released.


Sorry but I will have to disagree. I don't know why is it so hard to understand but the Mac Pro is used almost exclusively for Professional use, and that is why it's called a WORKSTATION. Professional Applications (2D and 3D) performance used today is based almost entierly on CPU and Memory performance, and not on graphic card performance. Sure we are heading that way, but as of today, it is not a feasable yet. That's why Apple includes the best CPUs and Memory. I think you should be thankfull that they don't actually include a IGP as standard and gives you a somewhat reasonable graphic card instead. If you go to the Mac Pro main page, you will not see anything related to gaming and for a good reason.

Now, I think you fail to realize that regarding to Computer Games, apple is not focus on that yet (which honestly I don't know why, since the hardware is already here). What you should be whishing for is for Apple to come up with some sort of iMac Pro, focused on gaming, which by the way, its most often considered their "entertaining line/desktop", focused on mail checking, internet browsing, DVD watching, light work load (school work, word, excel, etc). Believe it or not Gaming is part of this category.

gnasher729
Jan 9, 2008, 04:51 AM
For someone like me who need more than 4Gb of ram and who'll never buy a pc, there is no alternative but to buy a mac pro... Seeing the pricelist for the penryn xeon processors when they were announced last november made me hope for a nice entry level mac pro with two 2,5Ghz (E5420) quadcore xeons...

The price differential is huge with the 2,8Ghz apple is advertising, although of course we won't know what apple is paying...

I am reasonably sure that Apple pays different prices than the ones on that price list, otherwise the MacPro prices don't make sense. The 2.8GHz chip was around $800; if Apple paid that then out of the $2799 that you pay for the standard configuration $1600 would go straight to Intel. Doesn't make sense, especially since Apple wants to make a bit of profit, and the dealer wants to make a bit of profit as well.

Evangelion
Jan 9, 2008, 04:53 AM
Sorry but I will have to disagree. I don't know why is it so hard to understand but the Mac Pro is used almost exclusively for Professional use, and that is why it's called a WORKSTATION.

Exactly. Now, it's a valid complaint that Apple does not have a suitable machine for gamers. The mythical xMac would be that. But it's utterly stupid to complain that Apple's workstation-lineup is not suitable for gamers.

weckart
Jan 9, 2008, 04:55 AM
Maybe I'm misinterpreting the article, but if it's suggesting that UK folk can buy the 8800 GT as an upgrade for their old (Clovertown) Mac Pro, then I'm not sure that's correct. The 8800 GT's page on the UK store (linked to above) states "It features a PCI Express 2.0 interface for a high-bandwidth connection to the Mac Pro" - which would mean it couldn't work in the older model, non?

Confused (but hopeful) of the UK

PCI-E 2.0 is backwards compatible with PCI-E 1.0

Well, yes. This means you can put a PCI-E 1.0 peripheral card in a PCI-E 2.0 slot. Just like Windows 2000 will run DOS programs.

The reverse does not apply. PCI-E 2.0 cards will not work in a PCI-E 1.0 slot, just like DOS will not run 32 bit Windows programs.

Nugget
Jan 9, 2008, 05:02 AM
Well, yes. This means you can put a PCI-E 1.0 peripheral card in a PCI-E 2.0 slot. Just like Windows 2000 will run DOS programs.

The reverse does not apply. PCI-E 2.0 cards will not work in a PCI-E 1.0 slot, just like DOS will not run 32 bit Windows programs.

Incorrect. PCIe 2.0 is completely backwards compatible with PCIe v1.x. Both directions. Graphic cards and motherboards designed for v2.0 will be able to work with v1.1 and v1.0, and vice versa. A PCIe 2.0 device in a PCIe 1.x slot will simply not be able to make use of the increased bus bandwidth that PCIe 2.0 allows.

This fact is reinforced by the observation that Apple is now selling a "NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT Graphics Upgrade Kit for Mac Pro" in the Apple Store and does not draw a distinction between first and second generation Mac Pros.

ray_uk
Jan 9, 2008, 05:04 AM
Yeah a single quad coroe CPU and a 8800GT graphic card is a ideal gaming system, given that you have to pay a bit extra to get it with the worlds best OS.

Nugget
Jan 9, 2008, 05:10 AM
Yeah a single quad coroe CPU and a 8800GT graphic card is a ideal gaming system, given that you have to pay a bit extra to get it with the worlds best OS.

About the only real complaint I could make is that a gamer might prefer to buy a single (quad core) 3.2GHz machine instead of having to go whole-hog with eight cores in order to get the fastest clockrate. At least for now I think that would be a worthwhile place to save some cash if the option existed.

Beyond that, though, all you can really say is that a Mac Pro used for gaming is excessive. Not inappropriate -- just excessive. Much the same way it's "excessive" to drive to work in a car that can go 140MPH. There's nothing wrong with a bit of excess now and again.

gnasher729
Jan 9, 2008, 05:12 AM
It just seems silly to make Bluetooth Standard and not wireless. Every cotton picking Mac or PC mag I see in the store has HOW TO WIFI articles in it, each month consistently.

Probably depends on the cost. If having Bluetooth built into each Mac is very cheap compared to having a Bluetooth card then it would make sense. Also depends on how many people would buy Bluetooth: If nobody every bought it, then having it separate doesn't make money for Apple so they might as well give it away for free. :mad:

gnasher729
Jan 9, 2008, 05:17 AM
If you chose the 2.8ghz option to save the $500.00 for the 8 core, which I have thought about doing to save money, what do you think? Is it worth the extra $500 that I would have to "scrape" up to afford or can you upgrade down the road later when the funds were more readily available.

Also, what Apps can utilize the 8 core at this very second? Logic Pro 8? Aperture, Final Cut Express? Are these going to be able to take advantage of the 8 core setup or is it just overkill at this very moment?

Remember you don't need _one_ application to use all eight cores. If you have four applications doing things, and each is using two cores, the eight core machine will be finished twice as fast as the four core.

Not useful for gamers, because a single game will find it hard to use even two cores; on the other hand you could be encoding a dozen DVDs in the background and still play games at full speed if that is what you are doing.

Reach
Jan 9, 2008, 05:31 AM
I run my own business (Graphic design/video production) from my own home. Hence I have a workstation.

As chance has it, I also spend my free time in my home, which means my workstation is where I spend my freetime.

Are you guys then going to tell me that I should go out and buy a SEPARATE PC just for playing games on those rare occasions that I find the time to do so?

Please don't. Let me (and others) play on our pro-machines, we're not hurting them (or anybody else).

And for those like me that sometimes play on a workstation; just don't complain about it not being built exclusively for gaming. It works fine for games too, but the cash/playability-ratio would be better if you bought something just for playing..

There, now why on earth are all these threads filled with people arguing about games and the Mac Pro?! If you don't play; fine, but let others. If you do play; fine too, but don't complain about it not being made just for your needs.

ray_uk
Jan 9, 2008, 05:31 AM
Nah, a real hardcore gamer would find a way of overclocking that single 2.8ghz quad core chip al the way to 3.6GHz

thereubster
Jan 9, 2008, 05:40 AM
If I spec up a Mac Pro at the UK Apple store and change the graphics card to an 8800GT the ship time changes from 3 days to 5 weeks! These things are available now I am sure of it so why the delay?
It's funny how all the whiners were b*tching about Apple failing to update the Mac Pro to Harpertown when everyone else had announced updated workstations when in fact Apple end up shipping them first again! You can order from Dell and HP a month ago but you still wont get them till Febuary.
Its pretty clear to me the Apple do have a special relationship with Intel and do get stuff first, so I wish people would stop complaining.....

I'm going to wait to find out if the single quad Mac Pro comes with the same motherboard as the dual quads. If it does I'm ordering one with an 8800GT.
FINALLY!!!!:D

psycho bob
Jan 9, 2008, 05:43 AM
Now if Adobe could only get mulit-proc rendering to work on OS X in AE!!! 2-4-8 Doesn't ,matter much when the software doesn't work.

Well unless Apple have fiddled the benchmarks the Adobe AE Nightflight test shows the 8 core model to be 1.9x faster than the previous 2.66 Quad. Looks like a pretty good speed up to me.

fernmeister
Jan 9, 2008, 05:43 AM
I am not too sure. From my experience in the music and video industry.. I have not seen anyone purchase a Mac Pro for anything other than work-related stuff. I use my mac pro only for music production. I don't bother loading windows on it. My macbook pro has Fusion on it running XP (for Quicken) .. the mac pro has TBs of audio data, virtual instruments, plug-ins, etc. So it really peeves me when I see n00bs with just a lot of money.. buy a mac pro and use it for downloading movies and complain that they don't download faster than if you were using a laptop.

If I wanted to play games, and was a serious gamer.. I'm pretty sure I would buy a PC gaming machine or a PS 3 or something. I guess some people might buy a mac pro for games.. but to me it seems like a rather ridiculous idea to waste the power of such a beast.. on.. games. :p You know, I don't think that's what Apple thought when they designed this "Hey, what do you think the gamers are going to do when they see this?"

When I think of games, I think of Alienware, PS3, Wii, Xbox 360, etc. When I think of work, massive rendering, production, etc.. I think of the Mac Pro.

That's the way it looks to me as well. I can understand the clamour for a mini-tower more than the desire for a gaming Mac Pro.

Nearly all the Mac Pros and PowerMacs I've seen have been in workplaces - music studios, design studios, offices and the like. By contrast, the gaming machines I see (consoles and gaming PCs) are mostly in living rooms and dens and home "offices."

DGaio
Jan 9, 2008, 05:58 AM
I run my own business (Graphic design/video production) from my own home. Hence I have a workstation.

As chance has it, I also spend my free time in my home, which means my workstation is where I spend my freetime.

Are you guys then going to tell me that I should go out and buy a SEPARATE PC just for playing games on those rare occasions that I find the time to do so?

Please don't. Let me (and others) play on our pro-machines, we're not hurting them (or anybody else).

And for those like me that sometimes play on a workstation; just don't complain about it not being built exclusively for gaming. It works fine for games too, but the cash/playability-ratio would be better if you bought something just for playing..

There, now why on earth are all these threads filled with people arguing about games and the Mac Pro?! If you don't play; fine, but let others. If you do play; fine too, but don't complain about it not being made just for your needs.

Speaking for myself, I'm not saying you should buy a gaming computer separatly, in fact you don't have to at all, just buy an high-end gaming card, and put it in your Mac Pro and your good to go, althought you'll need Windows OS for that to work (quite honestly if your going to do some serious gaming, OSX isn't the right OS for that anyway).

What I was pointing at is that, above all, the Mac Pro is a professional working computer, and people that are complaining that a MacPro isn't a good gaming machine as is, fail to realize that it is not it's primary goal (which clearly you don't fail to realize ;) )

diamond.g
Jan 9, 2008, 06:09 AM
The new Mac Pro has TWO X16 slots : So I was right :)

Yeah, I caught that and was editing as you were quoting. :o :) But they are not using the Enhanced PCIe 2.0 spec that allows 150wats per 2.0 slot. :(

The only thing I'm trying to find out is if the 3.0 is the 80w or 120w Penryn?

Anyone know for sure? Calling Apple did no good and the manual doesn't say. 80W

hey guys,

2 PCI Express 2.0 16 lane slots

does that mean we could run dual 8800 GT cards? Is this the long awaited SLI support we had all hoped?

No mention at all on apple's site.. but that's two identical slots.. just one is wider than the other (surrounding space?)

Scott
No SLI support for this chipset. There may be Crossfire support but I wouldn't count on it. Two should work just like how two 7300's should work. As long as Apple is using the reference G92 boards, From my understanding one card can pull about 105 Watts, and that is reference. Faster cards obviously pull more.

Macinposh
Jan 9, 2008, 06:47 AM
I use my mac pro only for music production. I don't bother loading windows on it.
So it really peeves me when I see n00bs with just a lot of money.. buy a mac pro and use it for downloading movies and complain that they don't download faster than if you were using a laptop

... but to me it seems like a rather ridiculous idea to waste the power of such a beast.. on.. games.



Wow.

No only that I personally think that this kind of posts/attitudes are extremely hypocritical and patronizing, the also suck big time ecologically.

You guys are next to forcing people to buy a second computer for gaming, thus wasting valuable energy,resources and money?
What next,suggest people to buy a second hummer because they cant go to the 7-11 with a RED hummer,but it should be green..


Give people a brake. If they want to use their workstations that they allready own to play some games or watch some porn, it is ok. It´s not that they are making you to do that.
You can be all safe and sound and working with your masterpieces with your Macpros.


Ps. Ordering my 8800GT card,64bit Vista and Leopard tomorrow for some working and pleasure.

Pressure
Jan 9, 2008, 06:51 AM
Their GPU options still suck you know what.



What's that you say? It's not a gaming machine? It's a workhorse? Oh my...excuse me for wanting my computer for both work and play. I guess that really is asking for too much.

I love Apple's products, but I'm not a blind fanboy; these computers are still lacking in some areas--overpriced Apple memory & medium range GPU options.

The old G80 chip that drives the Geforce 8800GTS 640MB and Geforce 8800GTX/Ultra are End of Life (EOL) and are supposed to be fully replaced by 65nm equivalents in less than two months.

Why should Apple support a product that is not produced anymore?

diamond.g
Jan 9, 2008, 06:56 AM
The old G80 chip that drives the Geforce 8800GTS 640MB and Geforce 8800GTX/Ultra are End of Life (EOL) and are supposed to be fully replaced by 65nm equivalents in less than two months.

Why should Apple support a product that is not produced anymore?

For the same reason why they supported the EOL X1900XT (not even the 1950, the 1900).

akadmon
Jan 9, 2008, 07:00 AM
Remember you don't need _one_ application to use all eight cores. If you have four applications doing things, and each is using two cores, the eight core machine will be finished twice as fast as the four core.



Are you telling me that a single core can't be handling more than one task? Because if it can, then (unless that task takes up most of the core's load) your statement about the 8-core finishing twice as fast as the 4-core is incorrect.

Music_Producer
Jan 9, 2008, 07:04 AM
Wow.

No only that I personally think that this kind of posts/attitudes are extremely hypocritical and patronizing, the also suck big time ecologically.

You guys are next to forcing people to buy a second computer for gaming, thus wasting valuable energy,resources and money?
What next,suggest people to buy a second hummer because they cant go to the 7-11 with a RED hummer,but it should be green..


Give people a brake. If they want to use their workstations that they allready own to play some games or watch some porn, it is ok. It´s not that they are making you to do that.
You can be all safe and sound and working with your masterpieces with your Macpros.


Ps. Ordering my 8800GT card,64bit Vista and Leopard tomorrow for some working and pleasure.

I am NOT forcing anyone to buy a second computer.. sheesh. And it's give people a 'break' not a 'brake'.

Yeah, people can use their workstations to play games. I think I mentioned that some people do that, but it's idiotic to assume that buying a mac pro means it will be great for games. All I see here is people complain about a weak graphics card - that just blows me away.

And quit the ridiculous analogy.. seriously. And how the bloody hell was my post hypocritical? I posted what I do. I clearly mentioned that I am NOT a gamer. Read first, then attack.

AlexisV
Jan 9, 2008, 07:14 AM
Where did that 88FPS Doom3 benchmark on the Radeon 2600XT come from?

I get exactly 100FPS with the same settings under Windows XP on the iMac.

azentropy
Jan 9, 2008, 07:19 AM
Well, the thing is that Mac Pro is not meant for gaming. Sure, some people might buy one and use it primarily for just that. But that does not change the fact that it's not designed for that task. It's a workstation, and it's designed for workstation-workloads. And that does not include gaming.

you say that not including a better vid-card is a "stupid-ass" decision. to use a car-analogy, it was a stupid-ass decision by Ferrari when they didn't include a towball and a huge trunk to their latest sportscar.



That's nice. And because of that, Apple should design their _workstations_ with gamers in mind?



These GPU's that Apple offer are suitable for the intended workloads Mac Pro has been designed for. They might not be suitable for some other workloads, but that's 100% irrelevant.



Mac Pro's are not meant for gaming, therefore it's pointless to whine about lack of gaming-related functionality in Mac Pro's.



And for many people who buy Mac Pro's, it is.

Hey, you should tell Apple that because right now they have a section specifically for calling the Mac Pro the "Ultimate Gamer" and "is a gamer’s dream-machine"

http://www.apple.com/games/hardware/index.html#ultimate

spetznatz
Jan 9, 2008, 07:19 AM
I'm going to wait to find out if the single quad Mac Pro comes with the same motherboard as the dual quads. If it does I'm ordering one with an 8800GT.
FINALLY!!!!:D

From BigHeadache Page 3, quote #52:


I'll take a guess and say that you can upgrade later.

Why? because according to the specs the single quad used is a 5400 series Xeon which means its socket 771. If you were going with a pure single CPU machine, you would be using a socket 775 Xeon such as a Xeon 3350 or 3360 quad core.


But see my post at the top of page 9...

Pressure
Jan 9, 2008, 07:22 AM
Nah, a real hardcore gamer would find a way of overclocking that single 2.8ghz quad core chip al the way to 3.6GHz

You cannot change the multiplier so you would have to fiddle with FSB selectors on the processor but since that 400Mhz Quad-pumped Front Side Bus is currently the fastest available, you are left with nothing to overclock it to.

diamond.g
Jan 9, 2008, 07:36 AM
You cannot change the multiplier so you would have to fiddle with FSB selectors on the processor but since that 400Mhz Quad-pumped Front Side Bus is currently the fastest available, you are left with nothing to overclock it to.

ASUS (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/09/first-exclusive-inqpressions) has a board that can do 450 Mhz on the bus. All you need then is well made FB DIMMs. That should take the 3.2 Ghz Mac to 3.6 Ghz. Skulltrail should do better.

bmorris
Jan 9, 2008, 07:58 AM
maybe they plan on announcing something bigger for the mac pro but it wont be released til mid 08.
the iphone was announced and shown at macworld but wasnt realeased until july. i dont know bc of att or apple reasons.

Evangelion
Jan 9, 2008, 08:09 AM
Hey, you should tell Apple that because right now they have a section specifically for calling the Mac Pro the "Ultimate Gamer" and "is a gamer’s dream-machine"

http://www.apple.com/games/hardware/index.html#ultimate

And that still doesn't change the fact that gaming is something that it's NOT designed for. It just happens to be pretty good at it.

Roy
Jan 9, 2008, 08:11 AM
I am still suprised people care what these things look like. They are a box (very well designed) to put computer bits in, nothing else. I am sure you would find most Mac pro's stuck under a desk.

Who cares...


Hey now. My G5 is next to my desk; when it was under my desk I kept bumping into it with my knees. :-P


I keep my G4 Tower and monitor on my top of desk (custom made open computer cabinet) in my "family room". Too beautiful to hide. When I have "new company" over, the people marvel at my "new" computer and monitor. ("new" as in 7 years old this month).

Digitalclips
Jan 9, 2008, 08:14 AM
And that still doesn't change the fact that gaming is something that it's NOT designed for. It just happens to be pretty good at it.

I was just thinking last night ... maybe these new Mac Pros '8 Cores and all', are really 'blow out sales' of the casings and components to make way for a radical new machine at WWDC? Apple has done this before ... several times with the end of a line model. Load them up at amazing prices and get them out of the doors fast. Just a thought ....

iMJustAGuy
Jan 9, 2008, 08:14 AM
NOOOOOO!! I wanted Blu-ray support SO badly. Oh well, theres always next year.:o

Digitalclips
Jan 9, 2008, 08:17 AM
I keep my G4 Tower and monitor on my top of desk (custom made open computer cabinet) in my "family room". Too beautiful to hide. When I have "new company" over, the people marvel at my "new" computer and monitor. ("new" as in 7 years old this month).

Put a G5 there, open up the side to show that beautiful internal industrial design and add subtle lighting ... they'll faint! ;)

spiritlevel
Jan 9, 2008, 08:26 AM
Does anyone know when 3rd party 800 MHz DDR2 ECC FB-DIMMs will become available for these? particularly in the UK? - too expensive from apple but no one else seems to be supplying them right now...

guzhogi
Jan 9, 2008, 08:34 AM
To all those complaining about poor graphics cards: what IS a good/the best graphics card out there, in your opinion?

guzhogi
Jan 9, 2008, 08:35 AM
Does anyone know when 3rd party 800 MHz DDR2 ECC FB-DIMMs will become available for these? particularly in the UK? - too expensive from apple but no one else seems to be supplying them right now...

You may want to check dealram.com. Not sure if anything's out yet, much less in the UK, though.

spiritlevel
Jan 9, 2008, 08:39 AM
You may want to check dealram.com. Not sure if anything's out yet, much less in the UK, though.

thanks

ray_uk
Jan 9, 2008, 08:44 AM
Hi Pressure the article below makes for intresting reading.

http://www.o0o.it/pro/

I WAS the one
Jan 9, 2008, 08:51 AM
History repeats itself again in my life. In 1994 I bought a Brand New PowerMac G3 Beige 233MHZ and the next month the Blue n White G3 arrive... Last Month I bought a brand new iMac (and I love it BTW) and now they introduce the Mac Pro of my dreams at the same price. ... Well, I'll enjoy my iMac for 5 years and lets see what happens ....

guzhogi
Jan 9, 2008, 08:55 AM
NOOOOOO!! I wanted Blu-ray support SO badly. Oh well, theres always next year.:o

I have Toast 8 and one of the things you can optionally install is Blu-Ray support. Since I don't have a Blu-Ray drive, don't know how well it works, though. Probably lets you read/write data Blu-Ray Discs, but I don't know if the software & new graphics card can do the whole HDCP thing of movies.

guzhogi
Jan 9, 2008, 08:56 AM
thanks

just checked it and it does have an option for Mac Pro, but I think it's for the old version. Not the new one from yesterday.

diamond.g
Jan 9, 2008, 09:08 AM
To all those complaining about poor graphics cards: what IS a good/the best graphics card out there, in your opinion?

3 way 8800GTX/Ultra is the best available.

0zric
Jan 9, 2008, 09:15 AM
I doubt its a good thing to elaborate on the "gaming on a Mac Pro" debate going on, but just throwing in some coins here.

If people are willing to put in >$2000 on a system intended for gaming, wouldn't that make them "Pro gamers"? And what would the difference be if someone was a professional gamer versus a professional graphic designer? Just to prove a point, I'll throw in an example;

I make electronic dance music and made a good living from it for 7 years now. Been using Logic for a long while, just like many top producers. But on lots of forums, from producers who makes pop or rockmusic- and in daily events, the type of music that I compose is a bit frowned upon, and my work not considered "professional".

Well, if people spend so much time gaming that they can actually start making a living from it, could you not consider them as professionals? And shouldn't they be able to use a nice Mac like the rest of us?

Anyway, the new MP seems awesome, and as I don't play that many games anymore I have no complaints :) Ordering one after MWSF.

ray_uk
Jan 9, 2008, 09:17 AM
:apple:
The best bang for the buck is currently the 512MB 8800GT, you could play crysis on it at a descent frame rate. The 8800GTX is about a £100 or $200 for that you could have nearly had a second 8800GT which would have exceeded the performance of the 8800GTX.

I cant wait to see the first custom moded water cooled overclocked Mac Pro.

Oh more overclocking goodness.

http://forum.hardmac.com/index.php?showtopic=1639&pid=4358&st=0&#entry4358


:apple:

spiritlevel
Jan 9, 2008, 09:27 AM
I can't decide between the 8 core 2.8 or 3Ghz

Can anyone tell me/point me towards some info on the performance increase on the 3GHz over the 2.8? The 2.8 system I have specified comes in at just under £2K and it costs another £500 to go to 3GHz. This is an increase of 25% for a .2GHz increase in processor speed which seems like a lot...do you reckon this represents good value? I am a graphic/web designer using CS apps primarily but I also make a bit of music and do some video editing.

If the 3Ghz will make a lot of difference to me then I'll go for it but I could spend that £500 on a lot of other stuff = good audio monitors, a graphics tablet, new ACD (when they come), new camera etc..the list goes on.

How would the 8 core 2.8 compare to last years 8 core 3? Its a slower clock rate but would the newer chip and faster architecture on the new machine give it similar performance?

I'm finally upgrading from my trusty mirror door G4 1.25 DP so I think whichever one I get will be a pretty big jump from where I am now.

Any help appreciated, thanks.

Carl Spackler
Jan 9, 2008, 09:30 AM
So, no IR, right? Meaning no Front Row from a remote. I guess this is were the nifty wireless keyboard comes into play.

I was kinda looking forward to using Front Row from a remote, but I suppose this doesn't quite fit the whole "Pro" mode anyway.

CWallace
Jan 9, 2008, 09:30 AM
In a nutshell, the Mac Pro is meant to make the games, not play them.

It is aimed for "content creators" - not "content consumers".

Dell's XPS gaming machines use desktop chipsets (Intel x38 and nForce 680), not server/workstation chipsets. Same with HP's "Blackbird". And you cannot get any "gaming" card on HP's workstations. It's all FireGL or Quadro. Same with Dell workstations.

So as workstations go, Apple is likely the best choice for gamers because you can actually get "gaming" cards for them. They may not be the best, but hey, try playing Crysis on a NVS295 with 128MB of RAM. :eek: