Apple Music Media Event - October 16th?

[MacRumors]

Appleinsider cites (http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=217) that "reliable sources" are reporting that Apple will be hosting a Music media event next week on Thursday, October 16th.

Media invitations reportedly read "The year's biggest music story is about to get even bigger".

A mid-October release for the iTunes for Windows has been rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031007132908.shtml) for some time now, with early reports pointing to October 15th (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030910231353.shtml).

[granex]

It's not too late. Apple has actually been getting continuous pub from the stream of copycat announcements. While it might have been good for them to have completely captured this market before others jumped in, the timing of the release should not be too bad at all.

[GrannySmith_G5]

will probably be more than itms for windows. I expect some ipod gadgets as well.

[bertagert]

Wonder how this plays into the Napster release onthe 29th? Looks like Apple wants to get as much hype before Napster comes out.

I just took a look at Napster and you'll need windows 2000/XP and MS Media player for it to work.

Let the fight begin!

[SeaFox]

Hooray!

I hope it's iTunes for Windows!

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by bertagert
Let the fight begin!

My gloves are already off... So the 16th it is. I agree with GrannySmith_G5 too - I think there'll be an ipod accessory or two with it, just to sweeten the deal.

[kmac51]

A very large article talks about the release being next week, from sources close to the action.

Kmac

:D

[arn]

The story also says that Apple may offer incentives (free songs) to those just signing up.

arn

[Vector]

that would be great if apple can pull it off. If apple cannot make the windows version happen before napster and dell get started, i do not think there will be much marketshare left once apple enters. Apple would have to force themselves into an already packed market rather than entering one with only a couple of services that cannot compete equally.

[SonyGuy]

Now the question is, will I be able to access my iTMS downloads on my Mac on my windows machine?

That would rock. Pun intended.

[pkradd]

It's the real deal for Windows users. Napster is not compatible with the iPod. Also, the new iPod tv ads will probably change slightly after the announcement with a tag for iTunes for Windows. I wonder if Apple may also drop the prices on the iPods or perhaps a new 5 gig at $199?

[dho]

Could they be anouncing ITMS windows and europe at the same time?

[arn]

Originally posted by dho
Could they be anouncing ITMS windows and europe at the same time?

No.

All signs point to iTunes Europe in 2004.

[Vector]

that would be great if apple can pull it off. If apple cannot make the windows version happen before napster and dell get started, i do not think there will be much marketshare left once apple enters. Apple would have to force themselves into an already packed market rather than entering one with only a couple of services that cannot compete equally.

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by GrannySmith_G5
will probably be more than itms for windows. I expect some ipod gadgets as well.


Same here.

[maxterpiece]

Damn yo! This is definitely it (iTunes Music Store for Windows). My two biggest concerns are solidity of the windows version of iTunes and the DRM of the windows version being different. I am less concerned about the DRM though. I don't think Apple would ever release a Windows version with different DRM unless it was something virtually unnoticeable like 5 consecutive burns of a playlist allowed instead of 10.
max

[kuyu]

Of all my friends, I'm the only one who uses/owns a mac. Honestly, my peecee buddies can't wait for iTunes windows. They've all seen or used iTunes on my machine and complain that there's nothing that complete for windows. If iTunes works as seemlessly on peecees as it does on a mac, the music store is a shoe in. Also, no one else offers aac on the peecee, so that will be a major drawing point. Hopefully this will give apple the catapult they need in a market dominated by two bit companies.

[kansast]

I said it before.. but I hope this iTunes for Windoze. .and I hope it's a big hit. I just hope that if it is a big hit, Apple can keep up with the bandwidht demands. that would suck if it were to crap out after an anouncement like that

[neilw]

Here's my question: Will Apple, along with iTMS for Windows, also introduce a new, updated version of the store?

That would be a master stroke, IMHO. All the services coming on-line now seem to be knock-offs of the current iTMS; if Apple could roll in some cool new features that no one else has, that'd give them a compelling advantage for this holiday season at least.

I have not read one word of speculation whether iTMS for Windows will just be a duplication of the Mac version, or whether it'll come along with an updated store. [obviously assume that new features would be available from the Mac as well.]

[DillHarris]

C'mon, c'mon.... This has gotta be it! I can't wait! PeeCee users will finally taste a slice of the Apple pie!

[SilentPanda]

One thing I would *really* like to see added to the store is a "buy later" list... I know there is a shopping cart... but there's a whole bunch of music I want to buy but I don't want to spend a ton of money all at once... it'd be nice to have a place to store tunes that I'd like to someday buy... and it'd probably benefit Apple since I'd purchase more music... sometimes I go back to the store and can't remember what I wanted to buy so I just leave... I've requested the feature... hopefully someday...

[coumerelli]

Originally posted by granex
It's not too late. Apple has actually been getting continuous pub from the stream of copycat announcements. While it might have been good for them to have completely captured this market before others jumped in, the timing of the release should not be too bad at all.

I could not agree more.

[Vector]

Originally posted by kansast
I said it before.. but I hope this iTunes for Windoze. .and I hope it's a big hit. I just hope that if it is a big hit, Apple can keep up with the bandwidht demands. that would suck if it were to crap out after an anouncement like that

With as much bandwidth as apple has i doubt that would be a problem. I can dowload any song from itms in less than 1 sec and i am sure they have anticipated that problem.

[F/reW/re]

Originally posted by DillHarris
C'mon, c'mon.... This has gotta be it! I can't wait! PeeCee users will finally taste a slice of the Apple pie!
THey hace actually been eating a crappy quicktime player for a long time. Lets hope iTunes tastes better!

[Trimix]

Originally posted by arn
The story also says that Apple may offer incentives (free songs) to those just signing up.

arn

That is seriously the smartest thing they can do - now, do i buy more apple stock ???

[acj]

The biggest problem for me is my car only plays mp3s, and I hate the limitation of burning a real cd and only getting 80 minutes.

[Trimix]

Originally posted by SilentPanda
One thing I would *really* like to see added to the store is a "buy later" list... I know there is a shopping cart... but there's a whole bunch of music I want to buy but I don't want to spend a ton of money all at once... it'd be nice to have a place to store tunes that I'd like to someday buy... and it'd probably benefit Apple since I'd purchase more music... sometimes I go back to the store and can't remember what I wanted to buy so I just leave... I've requested the feature... hopefully someday...

I absolutely agree - SJ, are you listening ?
It would also allow Apple to estimate future demand a little better and could even influence what they add to the catalogue and when.
I wonder if they have a tracking program for all those songs, that we look up in the search field and can't find in their repertoire.

[synergy]

Is Apple going to announce the Apple iPod the first MP3 player to orbit the Earth courtesy of the Chinese Space program?

They are supposed to launch on 10/15.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by SonyGuy
Now the question is, will I be able to access my iTMS downloads on my Mac on my windows machine?



I have a similar question. I currently am running several windows boxes with the possibility of going Mac sometime next spring. The big question is will I be able to migrate my music from the PC to the Mac. Before I take the plunge with using iTMS I NEED to know. :confused:

[sketchy]

http://msnbc-cnet.com.com/2100-1027_3-5088849.html?part=msnbc-cnet&tag=alert&form=feed&subj=cnetnews

[rikers_mailbox]

Let the pre-holiday season media blitz begin. . .

This week was the announcement of Panther. Next week is iTunes for Windoze and in-store concerts (and new iPod accessories?). The week after is the "Night of the Panther" and a new website design -- hence the countdown.

What else does Apple have up their sleeves for this holiday?
New Displays?
iBook upgrades?

-rik

[Stella]

Bandwidth

When Apple made available iTMS for the Mac, the servers couldn't cope - it was hideously slow.

There will be far more Windows users logging on to the Windows store. Apple had better had enough band width to cope, otherwise they are going to get a lot of bad publicity in the media.

Windows users are going to think - "this sucks, can't log on" - ignoring the fact that there is a huge demand at the time - and never return.

[ig-88]

Does anyone elee think that this will likely lead to a version of Safari for Windows? After all... isn't iTunes fundamentally a browser with quicktime pre-installed?

the lead story on cNet kind of led me to consider this:

http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-5088642.html?tag=nefd_lede

[pbooktebo]

I'm curious if the latest Windows QuickTime version can play AAC–anybody know?

I thought it could, but I sent my dad an AAC file (of my own music, not protected), and even though he had Windows QuickTime, he said he couldn't open it.

I guess it seems logical that the Windows ITMS would use AAC. I'm going to be curious, however, what other file formats it would support. I think my father, for instance, would take iTunes for Windows much more seriously if he could migrate his entire library over there (and I'm sure some is the Windows format, although most is mp3).

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by pbooktebo
I guess it seems logical that the Windows ITMS would use AAC. I'm going to be curious, however, what other file formats it would support. I think my father, for instance, would take iTunes for Windows much more seriously if he could migrate his entire library over there (and I'm sure some is the Windows format, although most is mp3).

I would assume that the Windows version of iTunes will support both AAC (Fairplay protected or not) and mp3 files, but not WMA, at least not in the beginning.

[goodvoice]

Hey, maybe we're going to see the Music Store for Canada, who knows. Apple shouldn't forget that we exist...

[spaced]

Originally posted by Lancetx
I would assume that the Windows version of iTunes will support both AAC (Fairplay protected or not) and mp3 files, but not WMA, at least not in the beginning.

Apple would never, ever support WMA in iTunes *without* supporting it on the iPod. And I doubt Apple will ever shell out to MS for the licensing to do that.

However, I do hope that my purchased songs on my Mac will play in iTunes for Windows. That would allow me to authorize my work computer and copy everything over! :)

[Stella]

Whats Canada?

Originally posted by goodvoice
Hey, maybe we're going to see the Music Store for Canada, who knows. Apple shouldn't forget that we exist...

[Sonofhaig]

This week they release the new ipod commercial and next week the new itunes for windows. They're going to be selling a lot more ipods in the coming weeks. Once the PC folks get a taste of an Apple......:)

[macHeaps]

In addition to the great idea of having a "Buy Later" option, I think selling "Prepaid Music Cards" or having the ability to credit a positive balance to say my son and daughters iTMS Accounts would be a BIG hit!

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by Stella
Whats Canada?

It might be Australian for beer?

:D

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by Trimix
I absolutely agree - SJ, are you listening ?
It would also allow Apple to estimate future demand a little better and could even influence what they add to the catalogue and when.
I wonder if they have a tracking program for all those songs, that we look up in the search field and can't find in their repertoire.
Originally posted by macHeaps
In addition to the great idea of having a "Buy Later" option, I think selling "Prepaid Music Cards" or having the ability to credit a positive balance to say my son and daughters iTMS Accounts would be a BIG hit!

Make sure you don't just voice these things here but that you also leave feedback via the iTunes music store...

[macHeaps]

Originally posted by SilentPanda
Make sure you don't just voice these things here but that you also leave feedback via the iTunes music store...

Don't worry ... I have.

[bidge]

Originally posted by acj
The biggest problem for me is my car only plays mp3s, and I hate the limitation of burning a real cd and only getting 80 minutes.

If all of your music is in AAC and then you burn and MP3 disc it burns it all in MP3...

If you burn a data disc it will burn them in their original file formats.

If you burn an audio cd it will burn it with only 80 minutes.

So what's the problem???

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by bidge
If all of your music is in AAC and then you burn and MP3 disc it burns it all in MP3...

Really? I coulda sworn I tried this a while back and it refused to burn me a CD... I mighta been trying this with protected AAC files... I know it won't work with protected AAC files (that just wouldn't make sense).... I'll have to try with only my own rips when I get home... man that'd make me happy...

[theFly]

Everyone has it wrong.

Obviously, Apple is going to announce the PowerBook G5s next week. :D

Seriously, I did a mini review (http://www.flyonthemac.com/index.php?action=view_editorial&editorial=10) of MusicMatch at my site and found that the free version of the software has some pretty decent features above what iTMS offers (Streaming "Radio" stations ala Spinner, In-Depth artist information, etc). While other services like BuyMusic.com and, today, Napster are poor competitors, MusicMatch is a worthy competitor for Apple.

Granted, I don't like the idea of feature limited software to get people to pay for a full version and we won't even discuss the copy protection on the songs.

I wonder if Apple is going to be adding new features to the iTMS for both the Mac and Windows platform. The streaming radio stations are pretty nice the way MusicMatch does it.

theFly
Fly on the Mac (http://www.flyonthemac.com/)

[Damek]

Originally posted by ig-88
Does anyone elee think that this will likely lead to a version of Safari for Windows? After all... isn't iTunes fundamentally a browser with quicktime pre-installed?

Nope. Not gonna happen. They'd have nothing to gain for doing that. IE may be stagnating and broken on both PCs and Macs, but PCs have tons of other browsers you can download if you want. And IE is built in, so there's no reason to download another browser if you don't mind or aren't aware of the holes & problems in IE.

Safari is just Apple's answer to the stagnation of IE - on Macs. They're not going to help out the PC world in that respect.

iTunes for Windows would probably do better to make sure of IE's on rendering engine, built-in to Windows like the new WebCore is bundled with Panther. If they couldn't use the built-in HTML rendering engine of IE, and they actually did have to use KHTML for some reason, porting the KHTML engine that they used for Safari wouldn't necessarily mean they'd also build a browser around it. It wouldn't gain them anything to do it.

Anyone who wants an alterantive browser on Windows already uses Opera or Mozilla or MozillaFirebird or K-Meleon or Netscape or... anything else. Safari wouldn't serve any purpose on Windows. iTunes for Windows itself should do well to show Windows users the benefits of Apple products.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind seeing Safari on Windows, but I don't see how it could help Apple, and it would probably be pretty costly to port it over. I really expect they just used IE's HTML renderer where they need to display HTML/XML in the iTunes interface. Everyone else who codes for Windows does. Why port KHTML when they can just use something that's already there? If they really didn't want to touch IE, they could use Mozilla's Gecko engine, it already runs on Windows, too. No need to port anything...

I would be extremely surprised to ever see Safari on Windows. Ever.

As for iTunes being fundamentally a Browser, it would use an HTML engine to display HTML, but the main features of the app are its ability to organize and play music files. No browser necessary for that, they only need web capabilities for the music store. Before iTunes 4, it was mostly a music player/database.

[Damek]

Originally posted by bidge
If all of your music is in AAC and then you burn and MP3 disc it burns it all in MP3...

If you burn a data disc it will burn them in their original file formats.

If you burn an audio cd it will burn it with only 80 minutes.

So what's the problem???

That doesn't make sense. An "MP3 disc" is a data disc. So if you burn a data disc, it burns the music in its original format, and so if you have your music in AAC/MP4 format, it will burn a disc full of AAC/MP4 files. Unusable in a player that can't play AAC/MP4 files.

Or do you really mean that iTunes transcodes all of your AAC/MP4 music to MP3 format when you burn a data disc? That must take a long time...

[Frozone]

Originally posted by macHeaps
In addition to the great idea of having a "Buy Later" option, I think selling "Prepaid Music Cards" or having the ability to credit a positive balance to say my son and daughters iTMS Accounts would be a BIG hit!

A 'pre-paid' card would be awesome. Just sell them anywhere that you can buy Apple stuff. That way it would allow people who don't want to use a Credit Card of those who are too young, etc.., to have there own Credit Card to buy music. I will not be able to buy music from the story because i'm only 15 and my parents won't use there Credit Card for 'security' reasons. But i'm not buying there excuse because they have bought things offline before and my mom uses eBay all the time. So the 'pre-paid' cards would be a really good thing. And it could possibly help Apple because let's say they sell the cards so that you can buy 10, 25, 50, 100, and so on amount of songs. And lets say I was to buy the 25 Song card. Well I get on to the iTMS and I only find a few songs. Well naturally I would come back to buy the rest of the songs on the card. It would help keep those people who aren't into the whole 'music' thing that only like a few songs here and there and it could keep them coming to the store so that they get the rest of there songs and they might come across some songs that they won't which would lead to more sells whereas if they would have used a Credit Card they would have just bought the songs they liked and never thought about the store again. I'm not sure if this all makes sense but if you think about it, it does.

[macMaestro]

I agree, theFly. HERE COME THOSE POWERBOOKS!!! :D

Actually I'm totally convinced we'll have iTMS windoze come the 16th. I'm hoping for some iPod gear though (I couldn't care less whether iTMS works on windows as I don't have to even touch a PC most days).

[Tenacious B]

Originally posted by Damek
That doesn't make sense. An "MP3 disc" is a data disc. So if you burn a data disc, it burns the music in its original format, and so if you have your music in AAC/MP4 format, it will burn a disc full of AAC/MP4 files. Unusable in a player that can't play AAC/MP4 files.

Or do you really mean that iTunes transcodes all of your AAC/MP4 music to MP3 format when you burn a data disc? That must take a long time...

No, that's not how it works. Say you want to burn a playlist of four MP3s and four AACs. Selecting the Data disc option will put all 8 on a CD (in their original formats). Choosing the MP3 CD will put the 4 MP3s on a CD and do nothing with the AACs.

[12thgear]

Pre-paid cards are a fine idea, but I think people are making things overly complex. Why not just modify the iTunes Music Store so it can accept Apple Gift Cards? It would be much more versatile and it would be a whole lot simpler.

[pkradd]

No convincing needed for me. The release says that, if you're able to read "between the lines", it's iTMS for Windows. Probably Windows 2000 and XP only. A site reported a week or so again that ME would not be supported.
:D

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Vector
that would be great if apple can pull it off. If apple cannot make the windows version happen before napster and dell get started, i do not think there will be much marketshare left once apple enters. Apple would have to force themselves into an already packed market rather than entering one with only a couple of services that cannot compete equally.

I beg to differ. So far the other "Music Stores" don't support the iPod. The iPod already has more the 50% of the portable music player marketshare. As long as that remains the case, as soon as Apple releases iTMS for Windows they'll get all of those customers.

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by 12thgear
Pre-paid cards are a fine idea, but I think people are making things overly complex. Why not just modify the iTunes Music Store so it can accept Apple Gift Cards? It would be much more versatile and it would be a whole lot simpler.

THAT is a good idea. My .mac membership is about to renew and I'm trying to decide what to make my free gift. I don't want the Sims, or Everquest, and I don't see myself making an Apple Store purchase anytime soon. But if I could take that $20 and make it an iTMS credit I'd be happy.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Damek
... I really expect they just used IE's HTML renderer where they need to display HTML/XML in the iTunes interface...

God, I hope not. MS is going to be entering the online music store arena, and if iTMS is dependent on IE's rendering engine, I can easily see MS releasing a patch to IE that would cripple iTMS. And, of course, would MS be blamed for this? Nope. People would complain that Apple couldn't write good software.

No. I think it would be foolish for Apple to open themselves up to that kind of attack. I hope that they make iTMS self contained.

[yellow_lab]

iTMS is a freebie on Mac - or else it costs $$$ and you get a free Mac with your purchase :D

Do you think there will be a charge for the windoze version? Or will this be a give-away, too?

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Iceman06
A 'pre-paid' card would be awesome.

Hmm...
Here's an interesting thought. I buy a pre-paid card and have it sent to my address. Then, I send it to my friend in Barcelona. Because the card was registered to my address (in the USA), would my friend in Barcelona now be able to use the iTMS, before iTMS-Europe is online?
Hmm...

[Frozone]

Originally posted by yellow_lab
iTMS is a freebie on Mac - or else it costs $$$ and you get a free Mac with your purchase :D

Do you think there will be a charge for the windoze version? Or will this be a give-away, too?

They would be absolutly stupid to charge for iTunes. If they do then it will bomb big time. But I don't think they will.

[eric67]

Originally posted by arn
No.

All signs point to iTunes Europe in 2004.

definitely. A french web site (http://www.clubic.com/n/n10189.html) reports that AOL is planing to launch a "iTMS"-like system during the second semester 2004
next week AOL will launch in UK a digital radio, but nothiing related to iTMS.

[Damek]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
God, I hope not. MS is going to be entering the online music store arena, and if iTMS is dependent on IE's rendering engine, I can easily see MS releasing a patch to IE that would cripple iTMS. And, of course, would MS be blamed for this? Nope. People would complain that Apple couldn't write good software.

No. I think it would be foolish for Apple to open themselves up to that kind of attack. I hope that they make iTMS self contained.

That's a good point, but still, with regards to the original question of porting Safari to Windows, if they want to avoid IE's engine, they could just use Mozilla's Gecko engine without spending a lot of time and money porting KHTML.

But who knows, maybe they have ported KHTML to Windows, due to familiarity? That means a Safari-Windows port would be easier to do, but still unnecessary and unlikely, I think.

[eric67]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Hmm...
Here's an interesting thought. I buy a pre-paid card and have it sent to my address. Then, I send it to my friend in Barcelona. Because the card was registered to my address (in the USA), would my friend in Barcelona now be able to use the iTMS, before iTMS-Europe is online?
Hmm...
I guess yes
But business wise it will be a really good idea for Apple!!!
imagine they get the money (pre-paid card) before you even start buying any music track on iTMS.
In addition it will be a way for Apple to "distribute iTMS" in Europe without having to negociate to deeply with European distributors.

But still I do not understand this problem in Europe.
Universal Music is the biggest Music Major , but it is a french company, so European, so whereas they had no problem to say YES to Apple for iTMS in the US; why the hell they start making a mess in Europe.

[Noiseboy]

I seem to remember that the guy who put together the Mozilla Chimera browser moved to Apple and was instrumental in building Safari. I would have thought that pointed to a use of the Gecko engine for Windoze ITMS HTML rather that the appalling IE engine. Of course I may well be making it all up. David.....something:rolleyes:

[macHeaps]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Hmm...
Here's an interesting thought. I buy a pre-paid card and have it sent to my address. Then, I send it to my friend in Barcelona. Because the card was registered to my address (in the USA), would my friend in Barcelona now be able to use the iTMS, before iTMS-Europe is online?
Hmm...
Is there any reason why I couldn't "authorize" a friends computer to play my purchased songs ... even if that friend lives in Europe?

If you can do that, then why couldn't you give a pre-paid card to a friend in Europe and have it work. Instead of setting up your iTMS account with a US credit card, it would be set up with a US pre-paid card number. For all intents and purposes the songs would be purchased from the US.

That's what I like about Mac users ... always thinking beyond the obvious.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Tenacious B
No, that's not how it works. Say you want to burn a playlist of four MP3s and four AACs. Selecting the Data disc option will put all 8 on a CD (in their original formats). Choosing the MP3 CD will put the 4 MP3s on a CD and do nothing with the AACs.

So if I try to burn a playlist that has nothing but AAC files in it, as an MP3 disc, I'll get a blank CD? Seems strange, at best. I'll have to check this out...

[m_gerbik]

Originally posted by theFly
I wonder if Apple is going to be adding new features to the iTMS for both the Mac and Windows platform. The streaming radio stations are pretty nice the way MusicMatch does it.
But iTunes already does have streaming "radio" built in and it's very easy to use. Why would they add that to the iTMS which is also built into iTunes? Maybe I misunderstood??

[MM2270]

Originally posted by macHeaps
Is there any reason why I couldn't "authorize" a friends computer to play my purchased songs ... even if that friend lives in Europe?

I suppose you could, but that'd have to be one VERY good friend. :D Since your iTMS account is directly linked to your credit card, they would be able to go on a spending spree and buy as much music as they want. While I'm sure most people wouldn't screw their friends that way, I can think of some people that would. Personally I would never do something like give out my iTMS account for those very obvious reasons.

I still think the gift card idea is a great one. This is really no different than getting that gift card for Virgin MegaStore or a department store for your birthday, to go buy what you want with it. Would make an excellent stocking stuffer for teens and adults alike!

[timdorr]

It seems Apple is taking a page from the MS playbook here, and I couldn't be happier. It is absolutely critical that you get your products to market first. By doing so, you build a larger customer base faster and make it less beneficial for users to switch to other options. MS has done this with tons of technologies and peices of software, and it's worked every time. If people pick up the Apple music store first, it's competitors will find it harder to break into the market. This is great for Apple.

There are only two problems I see:
a) iPCTunes turns out to be slow and cumbersome on the PC platform. People don't want to use slow software, as evidenced by QuickTime PC...
b) People are forced to play music from the iTMS through iPCTunes. I don't want to play stuff through Apple's software no matter how good it it is. I want foobar2000. Apple better have something nice up their sleeves (like a system codec) to fix this potential hold-up.


I am leaning more to the side that iPCTunes will be a successful venture for Apple. I bet you they will at least make back some of the cost of development within a week or two of downloads, too :)

[clonenode]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
So if I try to burn a playlist that has nothing but AAC files in it, as an MP3 disc, I'll get a blank CD? Seems strange, at best. I'll have to check this out...
Right. You wouldn't bother doing this, as MP3 CD players like the Rio Volt would not be able to play the AAC files.

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
So if I try to burn a playlist that has nothing but AAC files in it, as an MP3 disc, I'll get a blank CD? Seems strange, at best. I'll have to check this out...

Actually I'm pretty sure you won't even get a "blank" disc... I'm pretty sure last time I tried that iTunes just said that there was nothing to burn and wouldn't burn the disc at all... so you wouldn't have a blank disc... just a "new" one...

[ryme4reson]

I would be interested in seeing the performance of iTunes on a windows box. I bet it would be pretty quick, compared to my newer 12" G4 with 4K songs :(

[X86BSD]

Gah! If you are going to rip off peoples sales slogans at least quote it accurately please.

-“MICROSOFT: Where do you want to go today? LINUX: Where do you want to go tomorrow? BSD: Are you guys coming or what?”

[jayscheuerle]

iTMS for Windows should offer nothing but AAC files.

The iPod should be able to play mp3, AAC, WFM, and every other type of audio file out there. The killer device shouldn't be completely tied to the store or it won't continue to be the killer device.

If a manufacturer comes out with a halfway decent iPod-like player that plays everything (including AAC files), and is priced less, it will be the Mac vs. Wintel story all over again...

- j

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by eric67
But still I do not understand this problem in Europe.
Universal Music is the biggest Music Major , but it is a french company, so European, so whereas they had no problem to say YES to Apple for iTMS in the US; why the hell they start making a mess in Europe.


That just reminded me. Didn't Universal music and NBC just merge? Or was it GE bought Universal? I haven't read too much into that deal yet. But perhaps if Universal has been bought out by an American company getting iTMS to Europe would be easier.

Then again, NBC already has partnerships with MS going...

[rueyeet]

In regards to the "buy later" feature....I'm not sure why the shopping cart wouldn't fill that need, unless you want to put everything you'd like to buy in the "buy later" category and periodically move some of it to the shopping cart for actual purchase.

If that's the deal, then maybe Apple could implement a wish list. They've already used Amazon's other purchase technologies, that would make sense.

I agree with the person who said there ought to be a way to track what you couldn't find. That way at the end of any given iTMS buying spree you could quickly fire off to Apple what you wanted that wasn't there.

Gift cards and pre-payment would be cool too, though for the pre-paid option you could use a pre-paid Visa like the Student Buxx thing they had a while back. The idea of that to give kids a card that worked wherever Visa was accepted, but instead of a credit limit, their parents put money on the card and could see their kids' transaction history. That's available today and could work for a prepayment solution.

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by Damek
That's a good point, but still, with regards to the original question of porting Safari to Windows, if they want to avoid IE's engine, they could just use Mozilla's Gecko engine without spending a lot of time and money porting KHTML.

But who knows, maybe they have ported KHTML to Windows, due to familiarity? That means a Safari-Windows port would be easier to do, but still unnecessary and unlikely, I think.

Why would Apple have to do any porting of KHTML? It was an open source project before Apple started basing Safari off it. So I bet it's already available for PC archetecture like the rest of the K-Desktop environment.

Someone on the open sorce end may already be working on a Windows version.

[SeaFox]

It is iTunes for Windows!

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/10/09/ituneswindows/

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by SeaFox
It is iTunes for Windows!

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/10/09/ituneswindows/

Not sure how that actually confirms anything...

:confused:

[Damek]

Originally posted by SeaFox
Why would Apple have to do any porting of KHTML? It was an open source project before Apple started basing Safari off it. So I bet it's already available for PC archetecture like the rest of the K-Desktop environment.

Someone on the open sorce end may already be working on a Windows version.

Why would they have to port it? Because KHTML doesn't exist for Windows. It came from KDE, a desktop environment for GNU/Linux. It has nothing to do with Apple - KHTML won't run on Windows without porting the engine to the Windows architecture and building a browser around it.

Yes, there is a KHTML-win32 (http://khtml-win32.sourceforge.net/) project, but it's been inactive since around January 2003. There don't seem to be any other efforts, though the last time I googled for khtml on windows, I found a couple of archived email discussions about such an undertaking, and everyone involved seemed to be horrified at what a daunting task it would be to make KHTML run on the Windows API model. Those seem to be gone from the current google results, but I suspect it wouldn't have gotten any easier, unless they were wrong to begin with.

I may very well be wrong, maybe it would fit some long-term strategy for Apple to help the open-source community port KHTML to run on Windows, but I just don't see it. The Windows HTML rendering engine would seem to be the way to go, or at least the Mozilla Gecko engine if they wanted to avoid the all-too-visible hand of Microsoft.

[Dippo]

Well I better guess I better start saving up my cash.

Can't wait till iTunes finally arrives!

[BOOMBA]

anyone know if the Music store launches with it?

[kherdin]

Ok, everyone slow down for a second.

I don't know where anyone got the idea that iTunes Music Store is dependant on Safari, but it is certainly not so. Just because the iTunes has pictures and text that are clickable, and interactive, does not mean it has ANYTHING to do with HTML or any other web format.

iTunes in fact uses a proprietary method to transfer all the information from iTMS to iTunes, it has nothing to do with a web browser. I can't believe how far this falsified information spread and how many actually believed it. Repeat after me: iTunes has NOTHING to do with Safari.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by BOOMBA
anyone know if the Music store launches with it?

What good would it be without it?

The iTMS access is the only important thing that sets it apart from other music managers.

[LoopHoles]

there's a wma icon inside the iTunes app's resource folder. right-click the itunes icon in your applications folder, choose "show package contents" and browse into the resources folder.

what is it doing there? :confused:

i don't see any evidence that iTunes uses webcore or KHTML, for that matter. the iTMS came out before Safari 1.0, which was the first version of Safari that installed the webcore extensions into the system.

[dstorey]

As a business point of view, iTunes gift vouchers/pre-pay mobile phone style cards are a very good idea for Apple. not only does it guarentee that the value of the card is spent in the store, but they get all the money up front. This means for all the cards out there they are making interest on your money before you soend it, but also the nickle and dime transactions (ok 99 cents) will cost more to process (a certain amount of each transaction will go to the credit company) while handling bigger transactions (10 20 50 whatever $'s) will mean only one transaction going through, whether by cash or credit. I'm not a business student so i'm not 100% sure this is correct but I studied e-commrce and I'm pretty sure this is how it works.

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by LoopHoles
there's a wma icon inside the iTunes app's resource folder. right-click the itunes icon in your applications folder, choose "show package contents" and browse into the resources folder.

what is it doing there? :confused:

i don't see any evidence that iTunes uses webcore or KHTML, for that matter. the iTMS came out before Safari 1.0, which was the first version of Safari that installed the webcore extensions into the system.

got a link?

[manu chao]

To clear up some confusion:

- Quicktime for Windows can play AAC (since version 6.0 or 6.1)

- iTunes does not allow you to convert protected AACs into unprotected MP3s, that would somehow defeat the purpose wouldn't it?
If you want an MP3 CD of your protected AACs, you'll have to burn an audio CD, then rip the songs again as MP3s, and then burn them. You're loosing quality (compressing twice), and it is a bit of a hassle, but that is the point. Circumventing copy-protection mechanisms shouldn't be easy and lossless.

[X86BSD]

It just seems to me that iTMS wouldnt be enough of a big announecment. We already know it is coming. I feel like they will announce something else as well perhaps an addition to the store. I can foresee the following in my head...
"...so now we have deliver the coolest legal music store ever for windows. Oh and one more thing... we didn't want to stop with music. So, now you can also get movies via the new iTMediaStore! We have combined the music store with a state of the art movie buying experience as well using QT/Pixlet technology. Oh and you can burn the movies onto your DVD-R superdrive! Movies will be priced at 4.99! We hope you enjoy the new experience!"

Now that would be mind boggling uber cool :-)

It's only a matter of time before they start offering movies in the store as well. It only makes sense. It may not be next week but it's coming, all the ground work tech wise has been put down.

[Freg3000]

I think it was even present before iTunes 4.

[inkswamp]

Anyone hear hints that one of the additional announcements at this event will be a massive increase in the ITMS music library (IIRC, only AppleInsider is reporting that)? IMO, that's just as important an advance as iTunes for Windows. Easily, one of the biggest gripes I've heard from people (and from me as well) is that there are so many missing bands/albums in the music store, including partial albums and whatnot. I'd love to see iTunes for Windows, but I'd be as happy to see an improvement in the music library.

[greenstork]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Not sure how that actually confirms anything...

:confused:

I have never seen MAccentral report something that didn't come true, have you? If I am wrong, I'll eat my words but my experience is that whenever they report something, it's true.

[rdowns]

Originally posted by Iceman06
They would be absolutly stupid to charge for iTunes. If they do then it will bomb big time. But I don't think they will.

My guess is it's free and they have already burned the CDs to include it with iPods.

Apple should include 5 free iTMS songs with every iPod purchase to get people there.

(edit:typos)

[rdowns]

Originally posted by SeaFox
It is iTunes for Windows!

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/10/09/ituneswindows/

I'm pretty sure Apple is announcing 3rd quarter earnings on he 15th. iTunes for Windows would be a great thing to hype to the Wall Street analysts on that call.

I think it's time to add another 100 shares to the portfolio.

[spankalee]

Originally posted by kherdin
Ok, everyone slow down for a second.

I don't know where anyone got the idea that iTunes Music Store is dependant on Safari, but it is certainly not so. Just because the iTunes has pictures and text that are clickable, and interactive, does not mean it has ANYTHING to do with HTML or any other web format.

iTunes in fact uses a proprietary method to transfer all the information from iTMS to iTunes, it has nothing to do with a web browser. I can't believe how far this falsified information spread and how many actually believed it. Repeat after me: iTunes has NOTHING to do with Safari.

I think you're quite wrong here. iTMS pages are basically HTML. The entire iTMS system is built with WebObjects, a web application framework.

Think about it and it makes sense. Why would Apple create a completely different rendering system for iTunes when they already have one for Safari? implementing iTMS as a web app solves so many problems that they would have been dumb not to do it this way.

First of all, if they had to they could offer the store independantly from iTunes. Say if the Windows version just wasn't coming along.

Second, by using HTTP over port 80 they make sure that iTMS works from behind almost all firewalls.

Third, By using an OS wide page layout engine they reduce work for the iTunes programmers, and make updates to the store much easier since they will usually only have to update the servers, not the clients.

Look at the way the New Music Tuesdays emails match the store. Look at the variety of pages within iTMS. Look at itms:// urls. iTunes definitely uses WebCore.

I also think that iTunes for Windows uses a WebCore port. Think about how good WebCore must be to support the iTMS. The iTMS pages may look a lot like normal HTML (I wish I could see one), but they must include a lot of hooks for iTunes to work. Contextual menus are disabled, browsing song lists work like normal iTunes browsing, there's little scrolling areas of pages, the album promo ads at the top of the page fade in and out (DHTML can do some of this, but I've never seen it work so well).

If iTunes for Windows uses IE, and IE can do all this as well, then IE is better than I thought.

[max11]

Originally posted by goodvoice
Hey, maybe we're going to see the Music Store for Canada, who knows. Apple shouldn't forget that we exist... Anyone can miss Canada, Marge! All tucked away down there...

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Hmm...
Here's an interesting thought. I buy a pre-paid card and have it sent to my address. Then, I send it to my friend in Barcelona. Because the card was registered to my address (in the USA), would my friend in Barcelona now be able to use the iTMS, before iTMS-Europe is online?
Hmm...

I don't think so. The Barcelona user would need an iTMS account, which requires his own credit card, which is what determines location.

Unless, of course, that gift card purchase effectively opens a new account in iTMS. But then, users would have to be able to handle multiple iTMS accounts on a single computer, which isn't likely to happen given the current setup ...

[Java]

So, how does one go about getting into the Apple Event next week? I live in the bay area and wouldn't mind attending.

I have a feeling it is for the media though.

[Poobar Jones]

Originally posted by Damek
That's a good point, but still, with regards to the original question of porting Safari to Windows, if they want to avoid IE's engine, they could just use Mozilla's Gecko engine without spending a lot of time and money porting KHTML.

But who knows, maybe they have ported KHTML to Windows, due to familiarity? That means a Safari-Windows port would be easier to do, but still unnecessary and unlikely, I think.

I am a web developer (creative director) and use a Mac. All of the developers in our company do not. It is like pulling teeth to get them to test their work on Safari on a Mac (we have a few kicking around for testing). If there was a Windows version I think it would be an easier sell to get them to test their work on Safari on the PC (hoping that everything renders the same)....

If Apple didn't want to piss off MS they could just release a 'developer' version of Safari for this purpose, and members of the general public who wanted it could grab it.

In summary: Safari on the PC is a good thing ;)

[SonyGuy]

Actually, you can get a pristine MP3 from any downloaded AAC in @ 1 minute.

All with Apple Software that comes on every Mac.

I showed an engineer from apple when I was at the Santa Monica store. His response was "Oh. My. That's not good. Don't tell anyone."

So I won't.

But I will say it's done with No third parties. No weird ass hacks. just strait up iSoftware.

[nightporter]

I think the new iPod will be able to play back surround sound format which you'll be able to download from the Apple store.

The iPod will also be either be Dolby Headphone or SRS Headphone enabled.

A new codec that Pixar and Apple have been working on will be used for the Surround format....

That 4.5MB per second rate was the awesome product of Pixlet, a codec developed by engineers at Apple and Pixar, Steve Jobs's animation studio. Pixlet is in QuickTime 6.3, which is built into Panther, the next release of Mac OSX, due out before the end of the year.

... This is actually wishful thinking on my part. But your never know, there have been rumors that Apple has been looking at going 5.1 on their music store.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by jettredmont
I don't think so. The Barcelona user would need an iTMS account, which requires his own credit card, which is what determines location.

Unless, of course, that gift card purchase effectively opens a new account in iTMS. But then, users would have to be able to handle multiple iTMS accounts on a single computer, which isn't likely to happen given the current setup ...

Well, as I understand it, part of the point of this would be to allow kids (who cannot get a credit card) to be able to buy from the iTMS without needing to use a parent's CC. So, if there wasn't a way to have an iTMS account without a CC, then I think that pre-paid cards would loose a lot of their appeal.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Freg3000
I think it was even present before iTunes 4.

Nice little fake. PhotoShop'd?

How about this:
http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~wathen/images/Picture.jpg

See, iTunes supports Ogg Vorbis, too!

:rolleyes:

[reedm007]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Nice little fake. PhotoShop'd?

How about this:
http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~wathen/images/Picture.jpg

See, iTunes supports Ogg Vorbis, too!

:rolleyes:

Dude, why don't you actually follow his directions before you call it a fake. Do the following:

1. Control or right-click on iTunes and choose "Show Package Contents"
2. Go to Contents > Resources
3. Open "iTunes-wma.icns" in Preview.

It's not a fake, it's for real. There is a WMA icon in the iTunes app. Try it on your computer!

And just to clear things up, I checked all my old iTunes on my computer, and it has been there since iTunes 2, so it doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it is interesting nonetheless...

...maybe on Windows Apple could release an AAC codec that allows Windows Media player to play AAC, thereby enabling AAC support in MS Movie Maker and anything else on their system! Hey, here's to hoping. :)

[richie]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Nice little fake. PhotoShop'd?

How about this:
<snip>

See, iTunes supports Ogg Vorbis, too!

:rolleyes:

Uhh, except the WMA icon *is* in iTunes. iTunes.app/Resources/iTunes-wma.icns

edit: beaten to the punch! :P

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by reedm007
Dude, why don't you actually follow his directions before you call it a fake. Do the following:

1. Control or right-click on iTunes and choose "Show Package Contents"
2. Go to Contents > Resources
3. Open "iTunes-wma.icns" in Preview.

It's not a fake, it's for real. There is a WMA icon in the iTunes app. Try it on your computer!

And just to clear things up, I checked all my old iTunes on my computer, and it has been there since iTunes 2, so it doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it is interesting nonetheless...

...maybe on Windows Apple could release an AAC codec that allows Windows Media player to play AAC, thereby enabling AAC support in MS Movie Maker and anything else on their system! Hey, here's to hoping. :)

Mia culpa, mia culpa...

I'll grant that there is an icon in there, but that doesn't mean that iTunes supports WMA. From his original post I took his implication to be that this was a WMA file that he was using iTunes to play.

[WM.]

Originally posted by Noiseboy
I seem to remember that the guy who put together the Mozilla Chimera browser moved to Apple and was instrumental in building Safari. I would have thought that pointed to a use of the Gecko engine for Windoze ITMS HTML rather that the appalling IE engine. Of course I may well be making it all up. David.....something:rolleyes:
Hyatt. (http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt)

HTH
WM

[eric67]

Originally posted by SeaFox
That just reminded me. Didn't Universal music and NBC just merge? Or was it GE bought Universal? I haven't read too much into that deal yet. But perhaps if Universal has been bought out by an American company getting iTMS to Europe would be easier.

Then again, NBC already has partnerships with MS going...

not yet bought. they are both negociating. They have been selected as potential buyers, but so far that's all. In addition, this will only be for US activities of Universal Music and Picture (so music and movie), for the rest of the world it will remain Vivendi Universal (french company).
Vivendi Universal is only looking for buyers of its US activities in music and movie, that's all, they need cash, so one of the biggest market being US, that's the deal.
But Vivendi Universal is also the leader for satellite and cable TV, movie producer, communication.... the only problem was the previous CEO, a dummy idiotic idiot, so proud of himself that he could listen to others or imagine he could be wrong....
So then even so it will not change so much the problem with iTMS Europe...

[eric67]

Originally posted by LoopHoles


i don't see any evidence that iTunes uses webcore or KHTML, for that matter. the iTMS came out before Safari 1.0, which was the first version of Safari that installed the webcore extensions into the system.

That's why it will not only be iTunes for Windows, but it will also be a new iTunes version 5, with some new features for the Mac version as for the Pc version.
so stay tune only 1 week to go

[LoopHoles]

the real enemy is napster. musicmatch music schmatch. napster copied the itunes store buying experience in almost every way (displaying of albums, search results, "buy track/album" buttons, blue backgrounds, etc.), it's coming out at the end of the month, and it'll have 500K tracks, lots of indies, etc. (screenshots (http://www.napster.com/press_release.html))

my guess is next week we'll see:
- iTunes 5, probably 4.5 (6 months between 4 and 5 is short)
- iPod accessory(s)
- lots of indie-label content added

still, i don't see iTunes for Windows using webcore/KHTML. two more bits. iTMS seems to work thru a port other than 80 (97, 121?); i'm lead to think (http://www.waxy.org/archive/2003/05/09/search_t.shtml) that there are actually encoded/encrypted XML files that drive the store content.

[shakespeare]

I haven't seen any discussion about what the GUI of iTunes for Windows will look like. Any ideas? Are they going to keep some simulation of the metal, or will they come up with a solution that fits with the Microsoft GUI?

[DomArch]

I wonder if I'll be able to download music from my (unfortunately) windows machine at work and be able to transfer it to my Mac at home....?

[billyboy]

Originally posted by Trimix
That is seriously the smartest thing they can do - now, do i buy more apple stock ???

you should have had faith and bought shares when iTunes was first mentioned.

I hope for the sake of share prices that people read through the analyst in the latest press release who says that, despite selling millions of tunes, Apple's bottom line wont change much based on 10 cents profit per song - but he throws in the consolation that sales of a few more iPods might make for better days. He is trying to talk down the impact of iTMS for windowws to make the price to drop a bit so he can get a slightly better deal before AAPL movesup up and away until Xmas and beyond on the back of the massive spin off from iTMS. It will be the most spectacular advert for Apple ever. BUY BUY BUY

[usingmac]

Isn't anyone surprised how fast this application was built? I am. I would love to hear the technical details of how they got this app out so fast. (and I am sure Microsoft would too)

Either the Apple devs did a kick butt job, or the new version is going to be missing some features at the start.

I hope it is not a beta version......like napster.

[kwtneo]

Originally posted by Iceman06
A 'pre-paid' card would be awesome. Just sell them anywhere that you can buy Apple stuff. That way it would allow people who don't want to use a Credit Card of those who are too young, etc.., to have there own Credit Card to buy music. I will not be able to buy music from the story because i'm only 15 and my parents won't use there Credit Card for 'security' reasons. But i'm not buying there excuse because they have bought things offline before and my mom uses eBay all the time. So the 'pre-paid' cards would be a really good thing. And it could possibly help Apple because let's say they sell the cards so that you can buy 10, 25, 50, 100, and so on amount of songs. And lets say I was to buy the 25 Song card. Well I get on to the iTMS and I only find a few songs. Well naturally I would come back to buy the rest of the songs on the card. It would help keep those people who aren't into the whole 'music' thing that only like a few songs here and there and it could keep them coming to the store so that they get the rest of there songs and they might come across some songs that they won't which would lead to more sells whereas if they would have used a Credit Card they would have just bought the songs they liked and never thought about the store again. I'm not sure if this all makes sense but if you think about it, it does.

it makes sense to me :)
i totally agree

[Stella]

Fast?
you know then, when Apple started development of iTunes for Windows?

I pretty sure its been in development for a while now, before april - the iTMS launch.

There was that Ad about Apple hiring a project manager for iTunes.. but development could have been well under way. That Advert doesn't mean much. The existing PM could have left and Apple were looking for a replacement.

Originally posted by usingmac
Isn't anyone surprised how fast this application was built? I am. I would love to hear the technical details of how they got this app out so fast. (and I am sure Microsoft would too)

Either the Apple devs did a kick butt job, or the new version is going to be missing some features at the start.

I hope it is not a beta version......like napster.

[snofseth]

I have a question will the itms for windows also include itunes, or will it just be the music store? Itunes total would be much smarter I hope they do that

[Ibjr]

Originally posted by kuyu
Of all my friends, I'm the only one who uses/owns a mac. Honestly, my peecee buddies can't wait for iTunes windows. They've all seen or used iTunes on my machine and complain that there's nothing that complete for windows. If iTunes works as seemlessly on peecees as it does on a mac, the music store is a shoe in. Also, no one else offers aac on the peecee, so that will be a major drawing point. Hopefully this will give apple the catapult they need in a market dominated by two bit companies.

Heh heh. He said PeeCees.

Mac Rumor users: Get over rubbing each other’s erogenous zones. You have the “worlds fastest Personal Computer” why must you persist in your childish name-calling?

[Izzy]

Originally posted by Stella
Whats Canada?

We seem to be an after-thought to Apple. Apple products are more expensive here even when taking the exchange rate into account. I would think that Apple would do well to debut products here as after all Canadians like to "Think Different".