does leopard stand up strong next to vista?

[denz455]

This will be interesting to see some thoughts from you guys on the new leading pc programs going head-t0-head.

I recently purchased a Macbook, but i know before i made the purchase i spent weeks deciding and realising that my choices seemed endless.
I found that although apple pc's were several 100 dollars more than the microsoft pcs, however i found that people have said the added security and easy use of the mac is well worth the money.
I also weighed up the changes from both programs, which resulted in my viewing of Apple Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard which touts more than 300 new features. Microsoft didn't advertise as many changes to Windows Vista, which also introduced new eye candy and under-the-hood changes.

Let me know your thoughts and PLEASE try hard to reassure me that i made the right decision :D

REPRESENT APPLE! :apple:

[t0mat0]

How about Leopard can run Vista and XP through Parallel's coherence.

IF it was a Venn diagram, Vista would be small circle, next to a larger one for XP, with the big Apple circle swallowing both up.

[bking1000]

This will be interesting to see some thoughts from you guys on the new leading pc programs going head-t0-head.

I recently purchased a Macbook, but i know before i made the purchase i spent weeks deciding and realising that my choices seemed endless.
I found that although apple pc's were several 100 dollars more than the microsoft pcs, however i found that people have said the added security and easy use of the mac is well worth the money.
I also weighed up the changes from both programs, which resulted in my viewing of Apple Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard which touts more than 300 new features. Microsoft didn't advertise as many changes to Windows Vista, which also introduced new eye candy and under-the-hood changes.

Let me know your thoughts and PLEASE try hard to reassure me that i made the right decision :D

REPRESENT APPLE! :apple:

OK -- you made the right decision (was that reassuring enough??)

If you JUST started with Mac OSX, then I'd say two things:

1. Keep an open mind and be willing to learn new things. OSX is not (and should not) run just like windows. So, you need to learn a few new things. There are TONS of forum and blog helps on the internet. Do yourself a favor and go to MacLife, MacWorld or just google "Mac keyboard shortcuts" or something like that. There are many sites that have a list of the TONS of keyboard shortcuts OSX has built in. Print those out, and keep it handy as a reference card. Once you learn the shortcuts, your enjoyment of OSX will explode (and you'll be ruined for Windows forever!).

2. Give it time. My prediction, if you do #1 above - in one to two months time you'll be haunting forums, telling newbies how they'll love OSX (btw -- I switched in August)

[TooFastForLove]

You won't get a Blue Screen of Death when you plug in your printer. That seems like an alright reason to me :)

[denz455]

How about Leopard can run Vista and XP through Parallel's coherence.

IF it was a Venn diagram, Vista would be small circle, next to a larger one for XP, with the big Apple circle swallowing both up.

haha thats a good way to put it.
Yeah i figured that apple did seem the superior of the two. Its just surprising that microsoft didnt put up much of a fight, surely they knew that apple were going to bring out the new system so why only take a half as*ed attempt at it?
Really, i think its microsofts own fault that they are behind the eight ball.
Apple take time to introduce their products i think as they are looking out for the consumer and their needs. It is because of this reputation that they are so popular and successful, yet microsoft can be seen as introducing little evolutions at a time...making it obvious that they are primarily in it for the money.
For instance, look at the IPhone. Apple do not fiddle around with little expansions, they simply design a product that is above all its competitors with all add-on's involved and put it to the market and gain the rewards they deserve.

OK -- you made the right decision (was that reassuring enough??)

If you JUST started with Mac OSX, then I'd say two things:

1. Keep an open mind and be willing to learn new things. OSX is not (and should not) run just like windows. So, you need to learn a few new things. There are TONS of forum and blog helps on the internet. Do yourself a favor and go to MacLife, MacWorld or just google "Mac keyboard shortcuts" or something like that. There are many sites that have a list of the TONS of keyboard shortcuts OSX has built in. Print those out, and keep it handy as a reference card. Once you learn the shortcuts, your enjoyment of OSX will explode (and you'll be ruined for Windows forever!).

2. Give it time. My prediction, if you do #1 above - in one to two months time you'll be haunting forums, telling newbies how they'll love OSX (btw -- I switched in August)


thats really helpful, il get back to you in a month or two with a PM and let know who im teaching to use apples ;)

[Keebler]

leopard doesn't stand beside vista.

vista severely lacks behind leopard! :)
i mean, it's still got that windows look and feel, despite a blatant copying attempt of the OS by MS.

as the others said, check out some sites, learn some shortcuts, buy a book on using mac os. it is far superior, if anything, simply b/c it's based on Unix which allows for easier programming imho.

[Digital Skunk]

You made the right choice all the way. I remember when I made the switch in 03 then got finally got enough money to get my own Mac in 04. Listen to what was said before, DON'T expect the Mac to work like Windows.... EVER! There may be some things that you found easy in Windows that Mac OS X doesn't do and should do.... don't worry, there will be some, but don't let that get you down.

Just to help you out.... let me tell you how it might wind up for you in about five years.

1. Wow this is Apple has become, what have I been doing with Windows
2. Finally got my OWN Mac, this is great.
3. Hey my friends, come check out my Mac that's much better than Windows. She was cool things I can do... it only messes up when I do something wrong... you should get a Mac too... it costs more but it's worth it... Windows has nothing on Mac OS X.

4. It's really the software that makes the difference, since the hardware is the same... software is what I need to work with not hardware, so Windows is out, but can I get that cool Alienware/Voodoo hardware in a Mac variation.... what Apple only makes machines for the middle of the line, no high end professional stuff, no ultra portable... okay I can live with that.

5. MAN! There is another cool laptop out there made by _____ I would love it if Apple made a model like that. If I was a Windows user I'd be able to get any machine I'd want from a 7" laptop to a 21" laptop and an iMac to an HP Blackbird 002. But WINDOWS JUST SUCKS! Why does Windows have to suck so much?

Then by this time you have come to realize that Mac OS X was and may forever be the right choice, but the hardware Apple gives you isn't as great on the Pro end. For consumers it's a wonderful line up. Video editing Pros..... all we have are the new Mac Pros and the possibility of a laptop with real hardware inside of it.

:)

[TBi]

You won't get a Blue Screen of Death when you plug in your printer. That seems like an alright reason to me :)

Instead you could get a gray screen of death telling you in numerous different language to restart your computer.

[denz455]

You made the right choice all the way. I remember when I made the switch in 03 then got finally got enough money to get my own Mac in 04. Listen to what was said before, DON'T expect the Mac to work like Windows.... EVER! There may be some things that you found easy in Windows that Mac OS X doesn't do and should do.... don't worry, there will be some, but don't let that get you down.

Just to help you out.... let me tell you how it might wind up for you in about five years.

1. Wow this is Apple has become, what have I been doing with Windows
2. Finally got my OWN Mac, this is great.
3. Hey my friends, come check out my Mac that's much better than Windows. She was cool things I can do... it only messes up when I do something wrong... you should get a Mac too... it costs more but it's worth it... Windows has nothing on Mac OS X.

4. It's really the software that makes the difference, since the hardware is the same... software is what I need to work with not hardware, so Windows is out, but can I get that cool Alienware/Voodoo hardware in a Mac variation.... what Apple only makes machines for the middle of the line, no high end professional stuff, no ultra portable... okay I can live with that.

5. MAN! There is another cool laptop out there made by _____ I would love it if Apple made a model like that. If I was a Windows user I'd be able to get any machine I'd want from a 7" laptop to a 21" laptop and an iMac to an HP Blackbird 002. But WINDOWS JUST SUCKS! Why does Windows have to suck so much?

Then by this time you have come to realize that Mac OS X was and may forever be the right choice, but the hardware Apple gives you isn't as great on the Pro end. For consumers it's a wonderful line up. Video editing Pros..... all we have are the new Mac Pros and the possibility of a laptop with real hardware inside of it.

:)

SOOOOO..in 5 years il come find you and let you know that you were right?
haha it does sound exciting, and i think its the idea of change that excites me as well. The new desktop, new keys, new applications, new browsers, new forums. The list is endless...

[CashGap]

"I found that although apple pc's were several 100 dollars more than the microsoft pcs"

You'll come to see that's not the case. Cheaper Windows machines are out there, but COMPARABLE Windows machines cost the same or more, even if you put only a minor value on the Apple software. If you put a true value on the included Apple software and a true negative value on the Windows user experience, and factor in the Apple hardware resale differential, you'll see that Macs are now the economical choice.

[GAS]

You won't get a Blue Screen of Death when you plug in your printer. That seems like an alright reason to me :)

Windows is bad, but it's not that bad. At least be fair :/

[gnasher729]

From anecdotal experience, Windows XP users find it a lot easier to switch to MacOS X than switching to Vista. When they switch to MacOS X, nothing is where it used to be, but everything is easy to find. When they switch to Vista, nothing is where it used to be, and you can't bloody figure out where it went.

Add to that the fact that Leopard is ten times more efficient than Vista and runs a lot faster on equivalent hardware, and add the two biggest features of Leopard: Spotlight - find everything on your computer _fast_, and Time Machine - a backup system that people actually _use_, and Leopard doesn't just stand up to Vista, it throws it on the ground, kicks it when it's down and tramples on its little fingers with joy. :D

[TBi]

From anecdotal experience, Windows XP users find it a lot easier to switch to MacOS X than switching to Vista. When they switch to MacOS X, nothing is where it used to be, but everything is easy to find. When they switch to Vista, nothing is where it used to be, and you can't bloody figure out where it went.

I found vista very easy to switch to.

[digitalpencil]

98 S1 stands up strong next to Vista.. this ain't a fair comparison :)

[TBi]

98 S1 stands up strong next to Vista.. this ain't a fair comparison :)

98 was a very good OS. I mean it had preemptive multitasking and all! You know, something Mac OS didn't have until OSX came out.

[Osarkon]

Windows is bad, but it's not that bad. At least be fair :/

It is if you're going by the public demonstration of Windows 98, or was it 95... :p

However I agree, it's not as bad these days.

[TBi]

It is if you're going by the public demonstration of Windows 98, or was it 95... :p

However I agree, it's not as bad these days.

I've seen OS9 crash just as much as 98. If i had a choice i'd rather be on 98 than OS9.

Most of the people i know who really hate apples have used OS9, the ones who like apples have only used OSX.

[nikhsub1]

From anecdotal experience, Windows XP users find it a lot easier to switch to MacOS X than switching to Vista. When they switch to MacOS X, nothing is where it used to be, but everything is easy to find. When they switch to Vista, nothing is where it used to be, and you can't bloody figure out where it went.
So true, and I own an IT support company ROFL. When I installed Vista on one of my machines, I had to google where they put the 'run' command.

I found vista very easy to switch to.
Sure easy, but at times very annoying as they totally changed the systems file structure... "C:\Documents and Settings\username" is gone for Vista, as are a bunch of other things. Since Windows 2000 it has been the same structure so it is weird having it change in Vista.

OS X is very fun to use - I just wish that Apple's video drivers didn't suck so much...

[Sky Blue]

Windows XP users find it a lot easier to switch to MacOS X than switching to Vista.

Nonsense.

[hari-bhari]

comparing os x to vista is like comparing caviar to dogsh*t

[TBi]

comparing os x to vista is like comparing caviar to dogsh*t

That's true, i found caviar had a really foul taste myself. Kind of like i would imagine dog poo to taste like.

[Digital Skunk]

98 was a very good OS. I mean it had preemptive multitasking and all! You know, something Mac OS didn't have until OSX came out.

I've seen OS9 crash just as much as 98. If i had a choice i'd rather be on 98 than OS9.

Most of the people i know who really hate apples have used OS9, the ones who like apples have only used OSX.

I would use 98 before I would use Vista to tell you the truth. OS9 was more stable and easier to navigate than Vista IMHO. Some of the older stuff worked like clock work, even better than Leopard in some instances.

That's true, i found caviar had a really foul taste myself. Kind of like i would imagine dog poo to taste like.

Yeah right my friend. Vista isn't that bad, but compared to Tiger Vista is garbage. Compared to Leopard.... I am not so sure.

[TBi]

Yeah right my friend. Vista isn't that bad, but compared to Tiger Vista is garbage. Compared to Leopard.... I am not so sure.

I wouldn't go as far as say Vista is garbage (I reserve that title for Windows ME). It has its fair share of issues and MS should be working harder to fix them as fast as it can.

It's lagging behind XP, Tiger and Leopard in quality but it does have a few nice little additions in it over XP.

[Kelly™]

I wouldn't go as far as say Vista is garbage (I reserve that title for Windows ME). It has its fair share of issues and MS should be working harder to fix them as fast as it can.

It's lagging behind XP, Tiger and Leopard in quality but it does have a few nice little additions in it over XP.

Truth.
Vista is in no way bad, its average, nothing special, a few years in experience short of XP.
The reason XP is better is because it has had years of updates and SP's behind it.
Install XP pre service pack one and then compare to vista.

However, no amount of Service Packs or years IMHO will ever bring Vista or XP into a competitive line with OS X.

Since you can install Vista via boot camp and run it through parallels in coherence mode when you don't need 3D, I see no reason why leopard on an intel mac shouldn't be anyones #1 choice for a computer.

[daneoni]

in an ideal world tiger would be my primary os but if I had to choose between leopard and vista I'd go leopard merely because its the lesser of the two evils

Which is exactly what I did. I returned my Dell xps m1330 and chose a blackbook instead. On my iMac (main machine) I'm still running Tiger

[hierobryan]

comparing os x to vista is like comparing caviar to dogsh*t

hehe...that made me giggle.

i'm only a few hours into my PC -> Mac switch....it just keeps getting better and better. using a Mac actually makes me want to organize my life. back on my PC i had files in every odd location. hopefully i can stay organized on my Mac.

[Wireless Buddy]

comparing os x to vista is like comparing caviar to dogsh*t

I believe that Windows Vista is the equivilent of taking a huge dump on your computer's CPU. Windows XP was decent, but OS X is much better.

Here's just a little example of how inefficient Vista is:

OS X and Vista are pretty equally graphically intensive (colors, animations).

I have an iBook with 256 MB RAM and 900 MHz PowerPC G3 running OS X Panther.
My girlfriend has an Acer Aspire laptop with 1GB RAM and a 2 GHz Intel Core2Duo processor running Vista Home Premium.

I was at her house and we were working on the computers. We were both playing music while web browsing. Her Vista Acer locked up 2 times when trying to change tracks. One time it just went to a grey screen and we had to reboot manually. My computer ran like butter throughout.

Even with much less processing power and less RAM, my Mac did exactly what her computer did with no hiccups. :apple:

[GAS]

I believe that Windows Vista is the equivilent of taking a huge dump on your computer's CPU. Windows XP was decent, but OS X is much better.

Here's just a little example of how inefficient Vista is:

OS X and Vista are pretty equally graphically intensive (colors, animations).

I have an iBook with 256 MB RAM and 900 MHz PowerPC G3 running OS X Panther.
My girlfriend has an Acer Aspire laptop with 1GB RAM and a 2 GHz Intel Core2Duo processor running Vista Home Premium.

I was at her house and we were working on the computers. We were both playing music while web browsing. Her Vista Acer locked up 2 times when trying to change tracks. One time it just went to a grey screen and we had to reboot manually. My computer ran like butter throughout.

Even with much less processing power and less RAM, my Mac did exactly what her computer did with no hiccups. :apple:

Can't really compare panther and vista (age wise). Put leopard on yours or xp on hers and it would be a fairer test, don't you agree?

[The Flashing Fi]

denz455, what type of responses do you expect? You came to a Mac forum, which of course is going to be full of mac fan boys and all of them will tell you that you're making the "right" decision. You're going to have a very difficult time finding a biased opinion on Leopard vs. Vista, since most of these people probably haven't used Vista for more than 5 minutes.

I like Vista and Leopard. Sure, Leopard doesn't have BSODs. Instead, it has kernel panics, which makes you have to restart the computer. I for one would never buy an iMac or a Mac Pro. I do own a Macbook Pro since I needed a good, well built, laptop, a OS with Unix capabilities. I also needed Vista, which I was able to get for free through my school. Had I not been able to get Vista for free, I would have gone with an IBM, as I will need Windows more than I need Mac OS X.

Many issues that people run into Vista with aren't MS's fault. They are typically the fault of the computer manufacturer, who loads an abundence of crap onto the computer that all runs at start up. They also load the computer up with old drivers that can cause problems as well.

[denz455]

denz455, what type of responses do you expect? You came to a Mac forum, which of course is going to be full of mac fan boys and all of them will tell you that you're making the "right" decision. You're going to have a very difficult time finding a biased opinion on Leopard vs. Vista, since most of these people probably haven't used Vista for more than 5 minutes.

I like Vista and Leopard. Sure, Leopard doesn't have BSODs. Instead, it has kernel panics, which makes you have to restart the computer. I for one would never buy an iMac or a Mac Pro. I do own a Macbook Pro since I needed a good, well built, laptop, a OS with Unix capabilities. I also needed Vista, which I was able to get for free through my school. Had I not been able to get Vista for free, I would have gone with an IBM, as I will need Windows more than I need Mac OS X.

Many issues that people run into Vista with aren't MS's fault. They are typically the fault of the computer manufacturer, who loads an abundence of crap onto the computer that all runs at start up. They also load the computer up with old drivers that can cause problems as well.

I was asking because i wanted to see some peoples opinions which i have.
I didnt ask you to contribute to this forum u know.

just so everyone knows...mac has officially converted me. REPRESENT! :apple:

[Digital Skunk]

I wouldn't go as far as say Vista is garbage (I reserve that title for Windows ME). It has its fair share of issues and MS should be working harder to fix them as fast as it can.

It's lagging behind XP, Tiger and Leopard in quality but it does have a few nice little additions in it over XP.

Yeah... I can definitely agree with calling ME garbage. I wanted to like Vista when it was released, but after working with it for a little while there was just too much elements that should have remained the same, a lot of names that should have been left alone. For some reason, out of the four PCs that I have used Vista on, one of them cannot connect to our network, another can't read a single thumb drive or external hard drive we plug into it AND can't connect to our network, another one freezes for no reason at all, and the other one is just fine. So far I have managed to adjust to the look of it, it's nice and it's much friendlier than XP, but it can't beat XP's functionality at all just yet.... later, but not yet.

I feel the same way about Leopard right now. Can't wait for it to become as stable and reliable as Tiger or even XP for that matter. I don't like it when Compressor crashes for no reason while exporting projects from FCP.... that really pissed me off.

One of the other announcements I am anticipating at MWSF is 10.5.2 with a lot of bug fixes.

[thejadedmonkey]

however i found that people have said the added security and easy use of the mac is well worth the money.

I originally was attracted to OS X because of fanboys. I figured they must be right. The good programs keep me around. The OS isn't much better for me then XP was.

I also weighed up the changes from both programs, which resulted in my viewing of Apple Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard which touts more than 300 new features. Microsoft didn't advertise as many changes to Windows Vista, which also introduced new eye candy and under-the-hood changes.

10.5 also removed a few number of features, and some of these "300" new features are features that make you wonder why they weren't in there to begin with.

Unless you're an idiot whose computer always got ****** up with spyware and viruses, a $1200 mac is just as useful as a $1200 PC*.

*some programs, mostly video editing ones, are much better on OS X.


OS X has its strong points (like native inline spell checking and grammar checking), but it also has short-comings. How many OS X exclusive games do I know of.. maybe 2. How many are fun? None that I've found!

Look at it like this... what's the better choice?
XP: Games, Photo management (Picasa blows iPhoto out of the water!)
OS X: GUI (including smoothness and general flow of the OS), Video editing

Disclaimer: The GUI can make a world of difference, it's the little things about it that I like, which is why I use OS X, but it's nowhere near as amazing as all the fanboys on this forum make it out to be... and what I wouldn't give for a taskbar!

[pr5owner]

paying $1000 more for slower hardware, no card reader and 3 usb ports, a crap video card for the money, (for $2700 i expect at least an 8800GTX go, maybe even in SLI)

sorry no mac is worth the money you are paying on paper, the specs for macs are just crap.

dont give me the spiel about dells/toshiba/sony/compaq dont have good laptops, those companies are absolute garbage. they dont even make their own hardware much like apple. wanna compare?

try compaing MBP's to Asus, MSI, Clevo/Sager/Eurocom?,

remember Asus makes the MBP, Asus obviously has reserved the good stuff for themselves.

[denz455]

hehe...that made me giggle.

i'm only a few hours into my PC -> Mac switch....it just keeps getting better and better. using a Mac actually makes me want to organize my life. back on my PC i had files in every odd location. hopefully i can stay organized on my Mac.

Il be just like you in a few hours, i just checked my status and its on its way now in melbourne. I cant wait to get the mac so that then even the little everyday happenings of a microsoft get extreme and exciting with the apple.

also, im looking forward to holding it in my hand. The sleek white notebook...smooth with the round apple logo, small erected keys...

oooooohhh yeah!

[The Flashing Fi]

I was asking because i wanted to see some peoples opinions which i have.
I didnt ask you to contribute to this forum u know.

just so everyone knows...mac has officially converted me. REPRESENT! :apple:

I think you go the wrong jist of what I was saying. I was by no means telling you to not get a Mac. My main emphasis was that people are giving you uneducated opinions, specifically on Vista. Hell, Vista isn't perfect, but I feel that it's a good step up from XP if your hardware is capable. Many of the complaints about Vista are very similar to when XP was first released (such as being a memory hog, slow, bloated, program incompatabilities and that Windows 2000 was better).

All I was trying to do was give you a different perspective from someone who had been using Vista since RC1. What I had to say may not have been what you were expecting, but you also never asked anyone else to contribute to this forum either. When you make a post asking for opinions, don't expect everyone's opinion is going to make you happy.

I'm glad that you made a decision and I hope your new Mac is all that you dreamed it would be.


And about Windows ME. Yeah, it was horrible. It was so bad that I think it was one of the shortest supported OS's that MS has ever produced, at least since Windows 95. Although, it did introduce some foundation features later were implimented into XP (although usually better).

[Techguy172]

I originally was attracted to OS X because of fanboys. I figured they must be right. The good programs keep me around. The OS isn't much better for me then XP was.



10.5 also removed a few number of features, and some of these "300" new features are features that make you wonder why they weren't in there to begin with.

Unless you're an idiot whose computer always got ****** up with spyware and viruses, a $1200 mac is just as useful as a $1200 PC*.

*some programs, mostly video editing ones, are much better on OS X.


OS X has its strong points (like native inline spell checking and grammar checking), but it also has short-comings. How many OS X exclusive games do I know of.. maybe 2. How many are fun? None that I've found!

Look at it like this... what's the better choice?
XP: Games, Photo management (Picasa blows iPhoto out of the water!)
OS X: GUI (including smoothness and general flow of the OS), Video editing

Disclaimer: The GUI can make a world of difference, it's the little things about it that I like, which is why I use OS X, but it's nowhere near as amazing as all the fanboys on this forum make it out to be... and what I wouldn't give for a taskbar!


I completely agree, OSX is nice but defiantly not perfect nor close leopard has lot's o' bugs Infact I think leopard has more than vista in my experience at least. However OS X has the GUI that i love I think it's fantastic it works so smoothly and quick. but windows has games and way more software.

[Osprey]

I actually find Windows XP to be pretty decent and I was using Windows since 3.0 at work. We now use XP exclusively at work and it has ended up being pretty stable and pretty reliable. The added advantage is that because I have worked in the Windows environment for so long, I am just more familiar with and and I can usually fix problems when they arise. With said, I just don't really like Vista, but I think the absolute, most annoying thing is nothing we owned would work with Vista. I am talking about hardware and software. Why would anyone want to have to buy all new hardware and software every time a new OS comes out. That can get pretty expensive. But I guess if I really had to narrow it down to one thing, I just love the fact that when I turn on my MBP it comes on and is ready to soooo much quicker than any windows machine I have ever used. It always amazes me and probably in the large scheme of things isn't all that important, but I must admit that I love that aspect. Besides which I am old and just don't have enough time to sit around watching my computer to boot up for what seems like forever.:D

[dante@sisna.com]

I run leopard and vista on a MBP 17" 2.6ghz.

Both are fine operating systems.

I still like tiger on the Quad G5.

Vista is nice. Leopard is nice. Both are highly evolved OS'es.