Would you recommend your car?

[thebassoonist]

I'm looking to spend less than $10,000 on a car. Here are my priorities:

-Good gas mileage
-4 door
-Automatic transmission
-Reliable
-Newer than 1995

So, does anyone have a car that they love, is relatively cheap and would recommend? Let me know make, model, year, and the mileage that yours came with if you bought it used if you do! Thanks!

[yg17]

-Automatic transmission

That's no fun :D


I can't recommend anything personally, but I'd try to find a Honda or Toyota. Those things last forever.

[thebassoonist]

I know! I love manual, but since I drive quite a bit in rush hour, my foot starts to hurt, and it's lame. Also, I'll probably be sharing this car with my little sister who doesn't start driving for a while. But I've been looking at Hondas, Toyotas, and Subarus. I want to avoid an American car. Ha ha.

[notsofatjames]

Come to the UK. £5000 will get you quite a bit of car if you can go back as far as 1995. My mum just bought a brand new car for £6050! BRAND NEW!

[iSaint]

Honda Civic. You can get a nice one for less than $10k. Buy from an individual, and do a CarFax. Car dealers/salesmen add too much to the price, and aren't trustworthy.

[iDAG]

My parents got me a 2001 Honda Accord Coupe for $10k. I'm sure you can find a sedan for the same price.

[Gentile]

I would recommend a Toyota Corolla. It is a 4 door, gets about 36 MPG on the high way, and is very dependable. You are looking at a 2004 or 2005 model.

The Honda Civic is my second choice, but it will be a little more expensive.

Good luck.

[thebassoonist]

Sounds good. Has anyone ever had a Subaru Impreza or heard anything about them?

[GSMiller]

I drive a Chevrolet Cobalt and yea I would recommend it. I got the base model (LS) and had aftermarket power windows, locks, and keyless entry with alarm installed for just a few hundred extra. I got it new last spring and it gets about 27 MPG (city/highyway driving). The only thing I do not like about it is the factory Continental tires suck, as they have horrible grip. I paid $14,913 after taxes.

[biturbomunkie]

do you need 4wd/awd, utility, v6, etc.?

[devilot]

Hard to beat Corollas. They're solid. Not fun, but then again, it's hard to find a truly reliable, affordable, and fun car. ;) (Note: I don't drive/ own a Corolla, but really, they're quite solid.)

[iGav]

Hard to beat Corollas......

You're cruel.

[thebassoonist]

do you need 4wd/awd, utility, v6, etc.?

I'd like 4wd (or awd? I don't really know the difference). Since I live in Utah, I need to be able to get around in the snow. I don't need a v6 engine, just something that can get up hills. Ha ha.

[devilot]

You're cruel.Yet truthful. :p

You know I'm right.

Solid all-around commuter. Just not joyous. But again, you can't have it all. It's extremely reliable, safe, very affordable, nice gas economy, 4-door, automatic transmission, and can definitely be had for a great price new.

[twoodcc]

well, i would recommend mine, but it's a truck.

anyways, i would suggest Toyota/Scion

[biturbomunkie]

I'd like 4wd (or awd? I don't really know the difference). Since I live in Utah, I need to be able to get around in the snow. I don't need a v6 engine, just something that can get up hills. Ha ha.

i'd say a saab 9-2x. thx to badge engineering, i've seen a few of them (under 30k mi) going at $10-11k + tax. otherwise, try to get a 2000+ subaru w/ awd and < 40k mi.

(sorry i can't give any first hand experience cos i don't drive a subie.)

[ErikCLDR]

Anything Japanese. I tend to like Hondas more then Toyotas. Subuarus are also very good if you are looking for AWD and good gas milage. Hyundais are supposed to very good too. I've been in one and I must say they're pretty well built and ride nicely.

You could look at american cars too. Taurus, Malibu, etc. Very bland of course, but the cars and the parts cost absolutely nothing.

Stay away from VW or anything german or european if you are looking for something reliable. Many of my relatives have owned VW's. The old ones are good (old as in like early 90's), but anything of this day in age is unreliable, very expensive to fix in comparison to anything japanese or american.

I would look at the Civic, Accord, Corolla, Camry, Taurus, Malibu first. If you need AWD then look at the Forester and Outback too. Find what you personally like driving wise, price wise, reliability wise, and repair cost wise. Then track down a good deal. Find what you want and then find the specific car.

In terms of Subaru, I believe they have a few different AWD (full time) systems. They are all automatic though, there is no shifting into 4wd.

[CalBoy]

Solid all-around commuter. Just not joyous. But again, you can't have it all. It's extremely reliable, safe, very affordable, nice gas economy, 4-door, automatic transmission, and can definitely be had for a great price new.

Can you find a new Corolla for under $10k? I thought they started like at $12k or something?

Either way, I agree with the Corolla idea. Even if a new one is too much, you can find plenty of 2005 or 2006 models for less than $10k, and they'll last for another 20 years.

[thebassoonist]

So what is the difference between 4wd and awd? This is something I should know when I start getting uberserious.

And yes, I will not buy a VW or... AUDI! AGH! I used to have an Audi. They are...not my favorite.



Also... are there any cars that I should absolutely AVOID?

[silbeej]

So what is the difference between 4wd and awd? This is something I should know when I start getting uberserious.

And yes, I will not buy a VW or... AUDI! AGH! I used to have an Audi. They are...not my favorite.

AWD is like what a subaru has, where it will move power around to the wheels that are not slipping, and 4WD is like what you get in a truck, where it will, when activated, send power to the front, but does not stop a wheel from slipping due to how a differential functions.
I would go for a subaru, late 90's. I have one, it has lots of miles, but if you live anywhere with snow like where i do, it is the best thing you will ever drive, ever.
That being said, i would not recommend something like my other car, a 77 MGB. It is definitely older than 95, is two door, not reliable in any form, an old school 4 speed manual, and does not get good gas milage. LOL
Hope this all helps

[Rodimus Prime]

So what is the difference between 4wd and awd? This is something I should know when I start getting uberserious.

And yes, I will not buy a VW or... AUDI! AGH! I used to have an Audi. They are...not my favorite.



Also... are there any cars that I should absolutely AVOID?

Tell you the truth there is not any real difference between the 2 of them. I would think of AWD as always on. 4wd you can it on and off.

But for what you are looking for it does not really matter. Your car is more than likely going to be front wheel drive.

Civic is good. You could look at the ford focus. Everyone I know who has a Focus has only said good things about it. I drive a sentra and it is doing great. Just if you get the Sentra do not get the 2.5L engine since it has known problems. The 1.8 is cheaper, gets better mileage but does have less power.

[thebassoonist]

AWD is like what a subaru has, where it will move power around to the wheels that are not slipping, and 4WD is like what you get in a truck, where it will, when activated, send power to the front, but does not stop a wheel from slipping due to how a differential functions.
I would go for a subaru, late 90's. I have one, it has lots of miles, but if you live anywhere with snow like where i do, it is the best thing you will ever drive, ever.
That being said, i would not recommend something like my other car, a 77 MGB. It is definitely older than 95, is two door, not reliable in any form, an old school 4 speed manual, and does not get good gas milage. LOL
Hope this all helps

I've seen a few Imprezas and Legacies in the paper. Maybe that's what I should go for. How many miles is too many for a Subaru? The ones I see all have over 100K. I'd like to spend as little as possible, so what do you think is a good trade off between miles and money?

[ErikCLDR]

So what is the difference between 4wd and awd? This is something I should know when I start getting uberserious.

And yes, I will not buy a VW or... AUDI! AGH! I used to have an Audi. They are...not my favorite.



Also... are there any cars that I should absolutely AVOID?

The difference between AWD and 4wd...
Both systems supply both the front and rear wheels with power. The first thing you have to understand that the power of the car always goes to the wheel of least resistance unless "locking differentials" are used.

4WD: A system in which the car is always in 2wd (rear wheel drive) until you shift the transfer case into 4wd (front and rear axels now both get power). When you do this the center differential is locked so the power is distributed 50% to the front and 50% to the rear. The problem with this system is that the 4wd cannot be used on dry roads. 4wd is usually found in trucks and truck based SUVs.

AWD: (sometimes known as full time 4wd)- These systems are in many SUVs and all cars There are a few different types here.
1) The power is distributed to the front and rear but there is no center locking differential so the power goes to the wheel of least resistance. Sometimes these cars are equipped with traction control to help reroute power away from the wheel of least resistance (the slipping wheel)
2) (Rare on most cars) The power is distributed to the front and rear but the the center differential must be locked to have the power be distributed 50% front 50% rear. Traction control can be on these models too.
3) The power goes to the rear wheels unless the car senses slippage and automatically locks the center differential to provide power to the front wheels. The ratio isn't always 50%, 50% in this case. Traction control can be equipped with these cars too.

To summarize, AWD is more automatic in most cases.

I might also add traction control uses the braking system to apply braking power to the slipping wheel. This in turn makes the power go to the other wheel.

Hopefully I explained that well.

[thebassoonist]

The difference between AWD and 4wd...
Both systems supply both the front and rear wheels with power. The first thing you have to understand that the power of the car always goes to the wheel of least resistance unless "locking differentials" are used.

4WD: A system in which the car is always in 2wd (rear wheel drive) until you shift the transfer case into 4wd (front and rear axels now both get power). When you do this the center differential is locked so the power is distributed 50% to the front and 50% to the rear. The problem with this system is that the 4wd cannot be used on dry roads. 4wd is usually found in trucks and truck based SUVs.

AWD: (sometimes known as full time 4wd)- These systems are in many SUVs and all cars There are a few different types here.
1) The power is distributed to the front and rear but there is no center locking differential so the power goes to the wheel of least resistance. Sometimes these cars are equipped with traction control to help reroute power away from the wheel of least resistance (the slipping wheel)
2) (Rare on most cars) The power is distributed to the front and rear but the the center differential must be locked to have the power be distributed 50% front 50% rear. Traction control can be on these models too.
3) The power goes to the rear wheels unless the car senses slippage and automatically locks the center differential to provide power to the front wheels. The ratio isn't always 50%, 50% in this case. Traction control can be equipped with these cars too.

To summarize, AWD is more automatic in most cases.

I might also add traction control uses the braking system to apply braking power to the slipping wheel. This in turn makes the power go to the other wheel.

Hopefully I explained that well.

Yes! Thank you. I am looking for AWD then. :-D

[silbeej]

Well its a 99 Subaru Forester 5 Speed, but you can get it in an auto, and it came with 88k miles on it for around $7,200. As of this moment it has a little over 110k, so in the past 2 or 3 years, i forget, it has some serious milage, and hasn't gone wrong. The belts squeak when it first starts up and it has rained/is damp out, the exhaust clunks when you don't have a perfect shift (not a problem you would have with an auto) and i get 26 - 28 mpg and i have snow tires on year round, so i think it's fairly good. Not sure how much longer it will be with me, but as a student, who lives where we get snow, it works fine.

[SteveG4Cube]

Unless you really want AWD, I'd avoid Subies. They're built with lesser quality materials, the resale value cant compare to Honda/Toyota, the AWD kills fuel economy, and the engines aren't as reliable. My mom's '03 Legacy has a tap/knock sound coming from the engine that's getting louder. The dealer has told her 3 times that it's normal, but now that it's out of warranty it's starting to sound serious. The boxer engine design also means it's more difficult (expensive) to service many things, and the AWD means more moving drivetrain parts that can fail. I traded an Outback sport for my '06 Civic and haven't regretted it once. You can pick up an '00-up Civic EX loaded for $10k easily that'll last for several hundred thousand miles if you maintain it.

[akabenlee]

ErikCLDR had a great explanation. I would also add that most AWD systems are not simply 4wd that is always on. AWD supplies power to the 4 wheels independently while 4wd drive gives power to the front and the back rather than the front or the back.

I recommend SUBARU...I got one in 1996 right after high school. I still drive it. It has 215,000 miles and is still going strong. You can get definitely find one in your price range. After I had my Subaru for awhile I told myself that there will always be a Subaru in my driveway. That's how much I love 'em. I'm getting ready to by my next one, a Subaru Tribeca.

I also recommend getting a wagon...it's convenient for toting things around like I don't know...bassoons or something.

[thebassoonist]

Unless you really want AWD, I'd avoid Subies. They're built with lesser quality materials, the resale value cant compare to Honda/Toyota, the AWD kills fuel economy, and the engines aren't as reliable. My mom's '03 Legacy has a tap/knock sound coming from the engine that's getting louder. The dealer has told her 3 times that it's normal, but now that it's out of warranty it's starting to sound serious. The boxer engine design also means it's more difficult (expensive) to service many things, and the AWD means more moving drivetrain parts that can fail. I traded an Outback sport for my '06 Civic and haven't regretted it once. You can pick up an '00-up Civic EX loaded for $10k easily that'll last for several hundred thousand miles if you maintain it.

Good to know. I don't see a lot of Subies in the paper and my mom has one that she likes. But it is good to hear that the Civic is better. I live in Salt Lake so for the next two years my car needs to be able to handle bad roads. How does your Civic handle bad roads?

[silbeej]

Not to put down the Civic, they are great cars and last forever, but.... they are very light, so they will get good gas milage, but in the winter, they slip all over the road. At least that was the way with the older ones, i'm not sure if the new ones are heavier/handle better. That said, if you don't have AWD, a front wheel drive car is better in snow than a rear only car.

[thebassoonist]

ErikCLDR had a great explanation. I would also add that most AWD systems are not simply 4wd that is always on. AWD supplies power to the 4 wheels independently while 4wd drive gives power to the front and the back rather than the front or the back.

I recommend SUBARU...I got one in 1996 right after high school. I still drive it. It has 215,000 miles and is still going strong. You can get definitely find one in your price range. After I had my Subaru for awhile I told myself that there will always be a Subaru in my driveway. That's how much I love 'em. I'm getting ready to by my next one, a Subaru Tribeca.

I also recommend getting a wagon...it's convenient for toting things around like I don't know...bassoons or something.

Ha ha ha. I'm glad to hear that it is going strong. The writer above said that Subarus aren't good, so I don't know!! I wonder if it is the make of car. Consumer Reports liked the '97 Impreza. And it's well within my price range (less than $4000).

[silbeej]

Well it is going to be a trade off, you have a few choices. 1: Subaru- Oh wow, my new purchase is breaking down a bit, so i have to invest some money. OR 2: Civic- Damn this car is unbreakable, it can do anything, oh s*** i'm sliding off this massive cliff cuz it was a sheet of ice.

lol just a little demonstration. It is based on the conditions you must face.

[d_and_n5000]

Well...I like our 2001 Olds Alero well enough - we got the top of the line model(GLS perhaps?) with 30000 miles and sunroof, better-than-factory sound system and a V6; no leather for around eight thousand dollars. If you go for a less expensive model, it'll be markedly less, and seeing as we got ours two years ago, they'd be a lot cheaper by now.

Can't say too much for the reliability of our particular model, though - the electrical system's a bit touchy. It started out with the turn signals not working sometimes and then spontaneously working again, but then it started having a bunch of alert lights go off all at once, and then all go off a few minutes later. We haven't taken it in because it hasn't really been a safety issue yet(well, unless you consider touchy turn signals safety issues - i could see it that way) and its just an annoyance, but what I'm afraid of is the entire electrical system going nuts all at once.

But other than that, its been pretty good. No, its not the prettiest or the most comfortable or the most reliable, but it gets you from A-B decently and cheaply enough.

edit: Oh, now that I've read the thread I see that you aren't big on American cars...:o

On that note, our 1997 Honda Odyssey's been a rock! And according to KBB(I know, its a joke, but its the best I got) its worth around $4000. And it can even get 30MPG on the interstate if you're lucky and not carrying a bunch. No, its not technically a car, its a minivan, but really its a tall station wagon with a 3rd row. Really! Sedan doors and everything.

[thebassoonist]

Well it is going to be a trade off, you have a few choices. 1: Subaru- Oh wow, my new purchase is breaking down a bit, so i have to invest some money. OR 2: Civic- Damn this car is unbreakable, it can do anything, oh s*** i'm sliding off this massive cliff cuz it was a sheet of ice.

lol just a little demonstration. It is based on the conditions you must face.

I am laughing so hard that I am crying. Ha ha. Well, I will let you know of my decision. Ha ha.

[SteveG4Cube]

Ha ha ha. I'm glad to hear that it is going strong. The writer above said that Subarus aren't good, so I don't know!!

It's hit or miss. I've owned 2 Subies and they both ran great, but my mom's has issues and a co-worker's also had his engine rebuilt under warranty on his Legacy. I've worked in the automotive business for 10+ years and I've heard of far less Honda engines failing in or out of warranty overall.

Good to know. I don't see a lot of Subies in the paper and my mom has one that she likes. But it is good to hear that the Civic is better. I live in Salt Lake so for the next two years my car needs to be able to handle bad roads. How does your Civic handle bad roads?

Granted, the AWD is unstoppable in the snow, but otherwise the Civic is great in bad weather and rides very nice on rough roads, yet still has tight, sporty handling. As for light cars equating to being bad in the snow, that's ridiculous. My old '87 Corolla was like 2100lbs and was amazing in the snow. Tire size and type have more to do with it than anything.

[iSaint]

Honda Civic. You can get a nice one for less than $10k. Buy from an individual, and do a CarFax. Car dealers/salesmen add too much to the price, and aren't trustworthy.

I meant to say Honda Accord! A little bigger than the Civic, very roomy, great mileage and dependability.

[CRAZYBUBBA]

Either way, I agree with the Corolla idea. Even if a new one is too much, you can find plenty of 2005 or 2006 models for less than $10k, and they'll last for another 20 years.

thirded. reliability, inexpensive parts, etc.

[Counterfit]

Unless you really want AWD, I'd avoid Subies. They're built with lesser quality materials, the resale value cant compare to Honda/Toyota, the AWD kills fuel economy, and the engines aren't as reliable. My mom's '03 Legacy has a tap/knock sound coming from the engine that's getting louder. The dealer has told her 3 times that it's normal, but now that it's out of warranty it's starting to sound serious. The boxer engine design also means it's more difficult (expensive) to service many things, and the AWD means more moving drivetrain parts that can fail. I traded an Outback sport for my '06 Civic and haven't regretted it once. You can pick up an '00-up Civic EX loaded for $10k easily that'll last for several hundred thousand miles if you maintain it.

Does the knock only show up when cold? Or is it constant? If it's just when cold, it's probably piston slap and can be somewhat remedied by using a heavier weight oil.
Also, the Subaru drivetrain is pretty solid (unless you're pushing 300+HP), the only thing I can think of that's harder to do on a boxer than an inline engine is a head gasket replacement. All the belts (Timing, A/C, alternator) are easily accessed from the front of the car.
My recommendations: Make sure any car over 90k has had the timing belt and water pump replaced, and try to stick with 99 or newer. They introduced Phase II engines on the Imprezas that year, which had MUCH better reliability with head gaskets.

Now, on to safety. It's not just AWD. Here are the side impact tests of of the 2006-07 Impreza (http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=636) (mostly applicable to 2002-05 as well, minus the side airbag) and the 2006-08 Civic (http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=605).
The only thing that kept the 06 and 07 Impreza from being one of their Top Safety Picks (along with the Legacy for 06 and 07, and Tribeca and Forester for 07) is the lack of stability control.

[eric55lv]

Dont but a Honda Accord they get stolen a lot

[silbeej]

Dont but a Honda Accord they get stolen a lot

LOL

and from above, my forester has the piston slap, it's fine...then again so does our 05 corvette, like stated, it's just cuz things are cold and haven't expanded yet.

[ErikCLDR]

Don't compare 06 and 07 models of cars when the guy is looking for something under 10k. Additionally poor resale is a good thing the buyer unless he is only going to hold onto it for a couple years.

I would say in that you live in Utah the AWD of the Subaru is a great thing to have and there aren't really any other inexpensive sedans that offer it aside from a Passat. Front Wheel Drive cars with traction control do pretty well in the snow though. That said I feel AWD have a much much much greater sense of security on the road. If you begin to slide with an AWD car just steer into the direction the car is turning and tap the gas and you will straighten out very quickly. In a FWD car it takes longer to correct your slide.

[Naimfan]

To reply to the thread topic--yes, I would.

To answer your question, I'd suggest a used Honda, whether Civic or Accord would depend on what you find and which you like better. I suggest Honda not as a slight on Toyota (the two are darn near indistinguishable reliability-wise as far as I can tell) but simply because I've owned a few and have personal experience with them. Very reliable, good drivability, and good on bad roads (whether potholed or snowy). And no car is going to do very well on a hockey rink.

[dmr727]

I bought my Acura CL in '98, and 130K miles later it's still fantastic. All it has ever needed are consumable items - fuel, oil, brakes, tires, clutch, etc...although I do need to get a new timing belt on it soon I suppose.

It's essentially a glorified two door Accord, but I'd recommend one in a heartbeat. Living in this area means dealing with the constant pressure to buy something new, but I've been so happy with my CL that I've been able to resist so far. :)

[tooshaggy]

Heck Yeah!
2005 Subaru WRX STi
Blue with the gold BBS wheels.
AWD, 2.5 liter turbo, 300HP, 300 lbs torque (and my 05 STi has side air bags)

SWEET!!!!!:D

[thebassoonist]

Heck Yeah!
2005 Subaru WRX STi
Blue with the gold BBS wheels.
AWD, 2.5 liter turbo, 300HP, 300 lbs torque (and my 05 STi has side air bags)

SWEET!!!!!:D

Nice! And it seems like you would recommend it again! :-D

Does anyone know anything about the Honda Fit or Toyota Matrix or Echo? Anyone have one or know of someone who does? I haven't seen any Mazdas on the recommendation lists. Are the Mazda Proteges any good?

Thanks again!

[biturbomunkie]

Good to know. I don't see a lot of Subies in the paper and my mom has one that she likes. But it is good to hear that the Civic is better. I live in Salt Lake so for the next two years my car needs to be able to handle bad roads. How does your Civic handle bad roads?

seriously, consider a saab 9-2x if you are thinking about a subie. as mentioned, good deals can be had on the 9-2Xs (around $10-11k w/ under 30k mi). it might be best bang for the buck as it handles better than a similar (and most likely more expensive) impreza.

also, subarus are pretty reliable in general, but even '01-03' acura CLs/honda accords could have transmission problems so ymmv. if you have a trusty mechanic, bring him/her along to inspect the car. definitely walk away when you feel that the owner/car could have been in the fast and the curious.

[thebassoonist]

seriously, consider a saab 9-2x if you are thinking about a subie. as mentioned, good deals can be had on the 9-2Xs (around $10-11k w/ under 30k mi). it might be best bang for the buck as it handles better than a similar (and most likely more expensive) impreza.

also, subarus are pretty reliable in general, but even '01-03' acura CLs/honda accords could have transmission problems so ymmv. if you have a trusty mechanic, bring him/her along to inspect the car. definitely walk away when you feel that the owner/car could have been in the fast and the curious.

Yeah, I'm going to have my uncle who has repaired many a car for the extended family come along (especially if I go to a dealership as dealers often rip women off). The Saab got good reviews so I'll be watching for it. It is quite a cute car as well!

[madfresh]

Honda Civic or Accord.

[Cassie]

Toyotas are built like tanks. Highly relieable, and while somewhat pricey, you could easily find one under $10,000.

[scotthayes]

pretty much anything from Japan will be ultra reliable, anything from France or Italy will break down on a daily basis and anything from Germany will cost a fortune every time it has to be serviced or repaired.

[Sesshi]

What he said, but I'd add that if you don't get a lemon and it's not too old a German car many not need anything done to it for years. But a Toyota's your best bet if you want the least chance of getting a lemon.

[iMpathetic]

Toyotas are built like tanks. Highly relieable, and while somewhat pricey, you could easily find one under $10,000.

NTM the pleasure you get when you realize you're driving a spruced-up brick. haha, really though, go with Saab if it's within your price range. My dad's owned Saabs since before I was born, and they are great.

[LizKat]

Yeah but they're all gone - 2000 Chevy Prizm (aka the Chevota) 5 spd manual, runs like rabbit and barely sips fumes in 5th. change the oil, don't hit any deer and hey only the glovebox was a chevy part everything else toyota

[Naimfan]

NTM the pleasure you get when you realize you're driving a spruced-up brick. haha, really though, go with Saab if it's within your price range. My dad's owned Saabs since before I was born, and they are great.

You DO remember that reliability was specified as being important? ;) Having owned several Saabs, their reliability does NOT compete with Honda or Toyota.

anything from Germany will cost a fortune every time it has to be serviced or repaired.

That's a vast over-generalization that isn't correct. Similar work on my 02 Accord and 94 BMW are, guess what, similarly priced, whether at a dealership or an independent shop. In fact, the BMW is often cheaper to work on because most of the things that need to be worked on are easily accessible because the tranny isn't shoehorned into the engine compartment. Of course, the tradeoff is that the BMW requires 4 serious snow tires to drive in the winter, but hey, that's easy! And worth it!

[biturbomunkie]

yep, saabs are not exactly reliable in general. the only reason i recommend a 9-2x is because it's actually a subaru w/ better suspensions and nicer appointments. :)

[silbeej]

BiTurboMunkie, you by any chance have an old S4?? With the Bi turbo v6? Well i'm an Audi guy myself. And to comment on Toyota, the mid 90's camery is an indestructible car. My friend has one and that thing goes through hell. It has been off roading, is driven very hard, has hit things, had people jump on it, and is always carrying at least 4 teens around, at fairly high speeds, and has not given up yet.

[biturbomunkie]

yep, i had an 01' B5 S4. i have always liked audis since i was born. i still remember playing w/ a quattro toy car and seeing princess di's green B4 cabrio on the tube. i've gone through B5 1.8T > TT 1.8T > S4 > B6 3.0QT. i miss the biturbo v6 dearly, but my next car will most likely be a non-audi. :)

[Cassie]

NTM the pleasure you get when you realize you're driving a spruced-up brick. haha, really though, go with Saab if it's within your price range. My dad's owned Saabs since before I was born, and they are great.

From what I've read, Saabs are one of the most expensive car's to fix if they break.

And I've heard that they do. A lot.

[biturbomunkie]

the 9-2x, and perhaps the 9-7x, are two exceptions. :)

[ErikCLDR]

You DO remember that reliability was specified as being important? ;) Having owned several Saabs, their reliability does NOT compete with Honda or Toyota.



That's a vast over-generalization that isn't correct. Similar work on my 02 Accord and 94 BMW are, guess what, similarly priced, whether at a dealership or an independent shop. In fact, the BMW is often cheaper to work on because most of the things that need to be worked on are easily accessible because the tranny isn't shoehorned into the engine compartment. Of course, the tradeoff is that the BMW requires 4 serious snow tires to drive in the winter, but hey, that's easy! And worth it!

I don't think its fair to compare a car from 1994 and 2002. Cars have changed significantly over the years and the ability to work on new cars is getting harder and harder. BMW's have some of the most expensive parts of any car these days too.

Tons of people around here have saabs for some reason. My mom had a saab about 14 years ago and its the worst car reliability wise she's ever had. Now that they are owned by GM I am sure they are better. Parts will expensive too and even though they are made by GM doesn't mean you can stroll into a chevy dealer and have them fix it. Its like taking a Jaguar to a ford dealer. They are nice cars but in terms of long term cost and reliability they won't compare to American and Japanese cars.

I will reiterate to the OP, look at a variety of cars- hondas, toyota, and some american things and decide which one or ones you like the most. Then find a deal.

American Cars:
Horrible Resale (good for you since you are buying used and I assume you want to hold onto this car for a while) so you can get a newer car with lower miles for a lower price
In general good reliability
Very very very cheap parts

Japanese Cars:
Cost More
Good reliability
Better build and materials
Tend to be stolen more (we know two people with civics that got theirs stolen, eventually recovered with pretty much everything taken out of the car)

[Naimfan]

I don't think its fair to compare a car from 1994 and 2002. Cars have changed significantly over the years and the ability to work on new cars is getting harder and harder. BMW's have some of the most expensive parts of any car these days too.


Well, comparing the 94' BMW to a friend's '95 Accord, parts cost is directly comparable, as is labor at the independent shops we use. For example, a water pump for my car is $63.25, for the Honda, $70.02. Labor rates are the same.

[iMpathetic]

You DO remember that reliability was specified as being important? ;) Having owned several Saabs, their reliability does NOT compete with Honda or Toyota.



Ah yes, the good ol' 900 Turbo Cabriolet. Ran for 13 years. Then the transmission fell off.

[biturbomunkie]

Parts will expensive too and even though they are made by GM doesn't mean you can stroll into a chevy dealer and have them fix it. Its like taking a Jaguar to a ford dealer. They are nice cars but in terms of long term cost and reliability they won't compare to American and Japanese cars.

not really, the difference is that the 9-2x and the 9-7x are truly badge engineered, while the x-type shares a platform w/ mondeo and gets its parts from ford's parts bin w/ jaguar's engineering. what i've heard is that some saab dealers actually needed to get subie/gm techs for the 9-2x/9-7x. i'm pretty certain that you can roll into a subie independent and have them service a 9-2x. :D

[iJesus]

My car is a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. L6 Engine with pretty good gas consumption. 4x4 and automatic. Comfy interior with great cargo room. And it's actually a pretty responsive car. I got the car when I was 15 1/2 and it was my first ever Auto so I was ecstatic. My dad bought it for me for 3,500 bucks cash and it was verrrrrry well worth it. I mean, the car was in mint condition.

I highly recommend the Jeep Grand Cherokees, they're really a good bang for your buck. I live in the Lake Tahoe area and I do QUITE a bit of winter storm driving, this car is a BEAST.

Good luck mate.

[Greasyman]

I have a 02 Subaru Impreza WRX. Love it. Very solid and well built car. Not a luxury car but a quality car. These cars are loved by all the car mags and car enthusiasts, that's how it came to my attention. It's like driving a Porsche with a station wagon body on it, a Porsche that's also great in the snow. Great seating position, great engine sound, rock steady, handles really well, very reliable, being a WRX it's turbocharged and very quick and powerful. There were some issues with some Subaru cylinder heads and trannys but they were limited to specific models and years. Look into it and you'll know what to avoid if necessary.

Some cars you might be interested in are the Ford Focus, everyone seems to like those. The Ford Contour and Mercury Mystique, are under rated, good little cars that can be had for a song, as are some cars from the smaller Japanese companies, such as the Mazda Protege, Nissan Altima, etc. I like Mazdas, they are nice, well built, sportyish cars that are cheaper than the compriable Honda or Toyota. I also have a Miata and it's a great car, really fun and they have a great reputation for reliability.

Do your homework and read every thing you can before buying and you can get a great used car for surprisingly little money.

PS. Biturbomonkey is correct, the SAAB 9-2x Areo is a WRX with different front sheet metal and other minor changes. They are easier to find with an automatic I believe, as most WRXs have a manual. The 9-2x 2.5 is the non turbo version and has 170 hp rather than 230.

[cmcbridejr]

I have a 2000 Honda Civic EX Coupe.

I bought it new in 1999 and it now has over 120,000 miles on it.

I have never had any problems with it whatsoever.

I know that you are looking for a four door car, so my recommendation is a four door Honda.

It is hard for me to think of any other car when I have had absolutely no problems with Honda for over 8 solid years.

Also, I am in outside sales, so I certainly do a lot of driving, and Atlanta is the driving capital of the US.

[cmcbridejr]

"Having owned several Saabs, their reliability does NOT compete with Honda or Toyota."

Saabs are rated as one of the most unreliable car manufacturers by Car & Driver magazine, as well as many other respectable auto publications. They are one step up from Suzuki in terms of reliability, which is not saying much.

Oh, but don't forget, they are engineered by Swedish jet fighter engineers. Ooooohhh, the mighty Swedish military.

Honda is the world's largest manufacturer of engines and they are that way because of reliability, not just because people feel like buying Honda engines for the hell of it.

[silbeej]

I just thought of this thread today, look there is the subie, and there is snow, yay, they can play!

[heehee]

I have a 2001 Honda Civic 4 door. That car is bullet proof. I would buy one again.

[biturbomunkie]

PS. Biturbomonkey is correct, the SAAB 9-2x Areo is a WRX with different front sheet metal and other minor changes. They are easier to find with an automatic I believe, as most WRXs have a manual. The 9-2x 2.5 is the non turbo version and has 170 hp rather than 230.

yeah, autos are definitely more common. kinda a good thing cos they tend to be less abused. now i'm kinda toyin w/ the idea of gettin an '06 aero manual w/ xenons+17" rims... its rarity makes it very appealing. :D

fwiw, '05 has two engine options: linear (naturally aspirated 2.5L 165hp 166ft-lb of torque) and aero (2.0L turbo 227hp 217ft-lb of torque). in '06, linear became 2.5i w/ 170hp and 166ft-lb of torque, and aero was upgraded to 230hp w/ 235ft-lb of torque.

[quagmire]

Honda is the world's largest manufacturer of engines and they are that way because of reliability, not just because people feel like buying Honda engines for the hell of it.

I can attest to that. We have a power washer with a Honda engine. Nice smooth and quiet running little 5 HP engine. Besides now that it won't start because of my parents ignoring it maintenance wise( true culprit why a car breaks down most of the time these days). My only beef with Honda engines is why can't they design a high revving engine, but have low end power? They're gutless down low.

On topic, I would recommend my 2007 Saturn Aura XR. Good mid size car. It has ample power coming from the 3.6 V6 and the 6 speed auto delivers the power smoothly to the wrong wheels. Though a used one would run you up a bit higher then $10K. :p

[nikopolidis]

Another recommendation about Honda Civic.
I have one 2004 year of issue. Excellent car! I got it for $18000 (in Russia). You probably know that in Russia cars much more expensive than in Europe or USA as our custom house adds about 50% to the price. I looked through German car-sell website. You can get nice Civic for $10k! :)

Main advantages of Honda Civic:
1) Fully satisfies your requests
2) Powerful (1.6 L, 110 hp, high rotational moment)
3) Comfortable
4) Nice-designed
5) Honda=reliability

Some possible disadvantages:
1) Ergonomics

[Feverish Flux]

I'm on my third Honda Civic, and all have been great cars.

Never had any pesky electrical problems, no major maintenance issues before 100,000 miles... great cars.

I currently have a 2001 Honda Civic EX 4DR with 115,000 miles. Original clutch, original brakes... only thing I've done is the regular maintenance and oil changes.

Hard to go wrong with a Honda.

[yoppie]

I drive a 2000 Honda Civic (4DR). It's been a great car and I haven't had any problems with it. This car has treated me so good over the last eight years that I know my next car purchase will be a Honda.

Like Feverish Flux up top, I just stick to regular maintenance and oil changes.

[ricecook]

anything import is the way to go.. Just make sure its a 4 banger...

[Abstract]

Hard to beat Corollas.

Not with the proper weapon in your hand.

[Naimfan]

Not with the proper weapon in your hand.

A Winchester .270 magnum into the block is probably overkill, doncha' think? :D

[NightFlight]

Addressing some points I read throughout this thread….

1. To everyone recommending Saabs, big NO to that one. There are two people who bought newer Saabs where I work and they were less than thrilled with the vehicle after it was purchased. They are NOT reliable vehicles and the resale value is beyond abysmal.

2. Toyota Corolla is one of the least fun cars to drive on earth not to mention is boring beyond belief. Sure, it is bullet proof but don't you want to have some fun behind the wheel? All the major car magazines say the same thing. Beyond bland.

3. A Civic that is bad in snow? You must not have had proper tires. I had an Integra GSR for 5 years (greatest car I have ever owned) and it was lighter than a Civic and unstoppable in snow on regular all season tires. I think some people forget the importance of dedicated snow tires….

4. I can tell you why you shouldn't buy any VW product. FOUR vehicles here at work have been lemoned by VWoA. Two Touaregs, a Jetta, and a Passat. All four people were treated poorly not only by the dealership where their vehicle was being serviced but also buy VW corporate. If your vehicle is lemoned you have some serious issues.


I couldn't possibly recommend any Honda product more, honestly. They are bullet proof, resale value is amazing, high quality, and still fun to drive. A Civic or an Accord has everything that you are looking for in a vehicle! :)

[Keebler]

honda (civic) or toyota (corolla).

those cars go forever. you will pay a bit more, but you can still hit your budget, but it will be worth it big time.

i can't tell you how many times i'm told one of those engines and vehicles for past 300 K , but i rarely hear that about NA vehicles.

[biturbomunkie]

Addressing some points I read throughout this thread….

1. To everyone recommending Saabs, big NO to that one. There are two people who bought newer Saabs where I work and they were less than thrilled with the vehicle after it was purchased. They are NOT reliable vehicles and the resale value is beyond abysmal.

2. Toyota Corolla is one of the least fun cars to drive on earth not to mention is boring beyond belief. Sure, it is bullet proof but don't you want to have some fun behind the wheel? All the major car magazines say the same thing. Beyond bland.

3. A Civic that is bad in snow? You must not have had proper tires. I had an Integra GSR for 5 years (greatest car I have ever owned) and it was lighter than a Civic and unstoppable in snow on regular all season tires. I think some people forget the importance of dedicated snow tires….

4. I can tell you why you shouldn't buy any VW product. FOUR vehicles here at work have been lemoned by VWoA. Two Touaregs, a Jetta, and a Passat. All four people were treated poorly not only by the dealership where their vehicle was being serviced but also buy VW corporate. If your vehicle is lemoned you have some serious issues.


I couldn't possibly recommend any Honda product more, honestly. They are bullet proof, resale value is amazing, high quality, and still fun to drive. A Civic or an Accord has everything that you are looking for in a vehicle!

i think the OP knows already. but as mentioned numerous times in the thread, the saab 9-2x is a subaru impreza (aka reliable japanese car) w/ saab's suspensions and appointments. the 9-2x is manufactoered by fuji heavy industries in japan. it can be had w/ a turbocharged engine and comes standard w/ awd, which means the saab will out handle civics, corollas, accords, etc. :)

[garybUK]

I dunno what you people are on... but european cars are built WAY better than US cars. and japaneese are just tacky.

I guess it might be because VAG (VW / Audi Group) cars in the USA are built in Mexico.

My friend has a Toyota Corolla, very nice cars.

And i dunno how Subaru and efficient can be in the same sentence.

Honda's are for old people.

Go get a ford focus, brilliant cars.

[Greasyman]

I go on Miata.net all the time and the car enthusiasts who've owned VW and Audi seem to pretty much say the same thing; that they are great, fun to drive cars that break a lot. Electrical problems seem to be number one.

My girlfriend has a 2000 Civic that she paid $10k for with 30k miles on it about 3 years ago, it's been problem free and is quite fun to drive, at least with a stick.

Pontiac G6 is a fun to drive, sportyish little sedan with lots of room in the back seat. Also available with the "semi-automatic", "clutchless manual", whatever they call it option, so you can shift for yourself if you want or put it in fully auto mode. I rented one and the manual mode worked really well, wasn't just a gimick.

P.S. If you go to the "Car Talk" forum on Miata.net you can get great advice about anything car related, doesn't have to be about Miatas. The people there tend to be a bit older and more mature than on many car forums, so you'll get polite and knowledgeable answers to your questions, for the most part. Some people there know an incredible amount of stuff about cars.

[biturbomunkie]

I dunno what you people are on... but european cars are built WAY better than US cars. and japaneese are just tacky.

I guess it might be because VAG (VW / Audi Group) cars in the USA are built in Mexico.

My friend has a Toyota Corolla, very nice cars.

And i dunno how Subaru and efficient can be in the same sentence.

Honda's are for old people.

Go get a ford focus, brilliant cars.

don't forget you are in the UK and you guys don't get the same U.S.-spec cars even if they are the same model. focus, civic, and accord are a few examples.

forget about anything from VAG if reliability and cost are priorities, even if they are from ingolstadt. trust me, btdt too many times. :)

[quagmire]

I dunno what you people are on... but european cars are built WAY better than US cars. and japaneese are just tacky.

I guess it might be because VAG (VW / Audi Group) cars in the USA are built in Mexico.

My friend has a Toyota Corolla, very nice cars.

And i dunno how Subaru and efficient can be in the same sentence.

Honda's are for old people.

Go get a ford focus, brilliant cars.

How are you saying go European when you're giving out praise for Japanese and American makes? Now granted the Euro Focus is 10x better then even the new US Focus.

[cycocelica]

I love my Subaru Impreza. I would recommend it to anyone. It is fun to drive and they are very reliable. Great in the snow too.

[thebassoonist]

Okay, so staying under 7K, this is what I have found. Are there any that look awful or any that I should go see in person?

2004 Saturn L 300 $6999 97K miles
2002 Ford Focus LX $6999 52K miles
2001 Ford Focus SE $6998 91K miles
2001 Ford Focus LX $6998 78K miles
2004 Ford Focus SE $6995 69K miles
1998 Honda CR-V EX $6995 125K miles
2000 Toyota Camry $6995 105K miles
2003 Saturn L 200 $6995 93K miles
2000 Subaru Impreza L $6995 82K miles
1999 Honda Accord EX $6795 127K miles
2003 Ford Focus SE $6695 58K miles
2002 Ford Focus SE $6685 79K miles
2000 Honda Accord EX $6500 137K miles
2002 Saturn SL 2 $6500 94K miles
1999 Toyota Camry LE $6495 114K miles
2001 Ford Focus SE $6587 75K miles
2002 Ford Focus ZTS $6295 81K miles
1999 Toyota Camry LE $5995 98K miles
1998 Subaru Legacy $5995 124K miles
1998 Subaru Legacy Outback $5900 97K miles
1997 Honda Accord SE $5599 113K miles
2002 Ford Focus SE $5448 96K miles
2002 Ford Focus SE $5195 93K miles
1997 Acura RL 3.5 $4995 184K miles
1997 Honda Accord SE $4988 168K miles
1998 Mazda Millenia S $4199 130K miles
1997 Subaru Legacy L $3500 156K miles
1997 Toyota Camry LE $3690 168K miles

Thanks!

[iDAG]

My vote is for the 2000 Honda Accord. Same body type as my car, trust me its great. :)

[twoodcc]

i vote for the toyota camry

[LizKat]

I won't buy an American used car with more than 45k miles on it and I buy only manual transmissions. The Focus are OK but the later ones are said to be better than the early ones. Still, many of the Focus in your list have too many miles for their prices.

The Hondas in that list are probably the way to go. The CR-V is nice, should go 200k miles for you if it's in good mechanical shape now and is not rusty. I don't know how long automatic transmissions are supposed to last in any of these vehicles.

What do you mean should you go see it? How can you buy a car without driving it first. Check them for rust, bondo... And anymore you need to at least look under the hood and get all those little brine shrimp from Hurricane Katrina outta there. You don't want a car that has been in a flood, and it's not always easy to figure that out even if you get CarFax reports. A car can look great a week after it's been drowned if a detailer really sweats for his paycheck, but that big-ticket wiring harness will be totally corroded in six months.

What you want is a dealer with word-of-mouth integrity and satisfaction ratings from people you know personally. Or, buying from a person you think you can trust. I prefer to deal with established independent dealers with local reps based on people going back to them time after time.

Often you can give such dealers a spec and some time, and they'll get you an auction car pretty much meets your requirements. You can save a grand or so doing that too, instead of starting out in their lot staring at their stickers on cars they spiffed up nice and shiny and put four new cheap tires on. Maybe they won't detail it perfectly, just bring it home from the auction and call you. They'll make it safe and legal but not fancy and it will probably cost you $500 more than you said to spend by time they maybe replace a fuel filter and etc. Just don't be telling them something like "and it has to be blue..."

[thebassoonist]

I won't buy an American used car with more than 45k miles on it and I buy only manual transmissions. The Focus are OK but the later ones are said to be better than the early ones. Still, many of the Focus in your list have too many miles for their prices.

The Hondas in that list are probably the way to go. The CR-V is nice, should go 200k miles for you if it's in good mechanical shape now and is not rusty. I don't know how long automatic transmissions are supposed to last in any of these vehicles.

What do you mean should you go see it? How can you buy a car without driving it first. Check them for rust, bondo... And anymore you need to at least look under the hood and get all those little brine shrimp from Hurricane Katrina outta there. You don't want a car that has been in a flood, and it's not always easy to figure that out even if you get CarFax reports. A car can look great a week after it's been drowned if a detailer really sweats for his paycheck, but that big-ticket wiring harness will be totally corroded in six months.

What you want is a dealer with word-of-mouth integrity and satisfaction ratings from people you know personally. Or, buying from a person you think you can trust. I prefer to deal with established independent dealers with local reps based on people going back to them time after time.

Often you can give such dealers a spec and some time, and they'll get you an auction car pretty much meets your requirements. You can save a grand or so doing that too, instead of starting out in their lot staring at their stickers on cars they spiffed up nice and shiny and put four new cheap tires on. Maybe they won't detail it perfectly, just bring it home from the auction and call you. They'll make it safe and legal but not fancy and it will probably cost you $500 more than you said to spend by time they maybe replace a fuel filter and etc. Just don't be telling them something like "and it has to be blue..."

Of course I will test drive it before I buy it...I'm not a total idiot. I'm just wondering if any on the list are worth my time. And I don't care about the color of my car, either...thanks for the advice on the mileage and CR-V!

[Greasyman]

What you want is a dealer with word-of-mouth integrity and satisfaction ratings from people you know personally. Or, buying from a person you think you can trust. I prefer to deal with established independent dealers with local reps based on people going back to them time after time.

Often you can give such dealers a spec and some time, and they'll get you an auction car pretty much meets your requirements. You can save a grand or so doing that too, instead of starting out in their lot staring at their stickers on cars they spiffed up nice and shiny and put four new cheap tires on. Maybe they won't detail it perfectly, just bring it home from the auction and call you. They'll make it safe and legal but not fancy and it will probably cost you $500 more than you said to spend by time they maybe replace a fuel filter and etc. Just don't be telling them something like "and it has to be blue..."

Years ago I heard a radio interview with a lawyer who specialized in representing people who'd been ripped off by car dealers and he said the best dealers to deal with were the high end ones because they make enough that they don't feel they have to resort to cheating. In my limited experience that's been true.

My girlfriend bought her Civic from an Infinity dealer and they gave her way more for the trade-in on her POS Accord than it was worth, plus they charged her less for the Civic than they'd listed it for. It was actually pleasant buying a car from them.

I bought my used Subaru from a dealer that sells many brands of expensive cars such as Maybach, BMW, MB, Cadillac, SAAB, etc. They gave me a very fair deal. I might have found the same car for a bit less from a private seller but they had exactly what I wanted so I said what the heck. I was, and still am, very pleased with the car and what I paid for it.

IMO, the only reason to by from one of those divey little independant car lots is if you need a loan or they have a car you're just not going to find anywhere else, like that salmon over aqua-marine '53 Studebaker Hawk you've been looking for for 30 years.

You usually get the best deals from private sellers.

[thebassoonist]

Years ago I heard a radio interview with a lawyer who specialized in representing people who'd been ripped off by car dealers and he said the best dealers to deal with were the high end ones because they make enough that they don't feel they have to resort to cheating. In my limited experience that's been true.

My girlfriend bought her Civic from an Infinity dealer and they gave her way more for the trade-in on her POS Accord than it was worth, plus they charged her less for the Civic than they'd listed it for. It was actually pleasant buying a car from them.

I bought my used Subaru from a dealer that sells many brands of expensive cars such as Maybach, BMW, MB, Cadillac, SAAB, etc. They gave me a very fair deal. I might have found the same car for a bit less from a private seller but they had exactly what I wanted so I said what the heck. I was, and still am, very pleased with the car and what I paid for it.

IMO, the only reason to by from one of those divey little independant car lots is if you need a loan or they have a car you're just not going to find anywhere else, like that salmon over aqua-marine '53 Studebaker Hawk you've been looking for for 30 years.

You usually get the best deals from private sellers.

Yeah, that makes sense. My parents bought a used Jeep many years ago from a Porsche dealer who was willing to negotiate because they didn't want the Jeep on their lot! Quite a few of these cars are from private dealerships in SLC and surrounding area.

[quagmire]

Avoid early MY Saturn L Series. Those things had some quirks in the first MY. Avoid any Saturn with the VTi CVT transmission. Horrid reliability. The SL2 though I am not so sure. Owners though of the S-Series will stick to their cars. They are loyal to their cars. Though if you want more info on the SL2 you can go to saturnfans.com and ask how reliable theirs have been and gather more info on it.

Out of the list, I would go for the 2004 Focus.

[Rodimus Prime]

boy american car makes are still dealing with a poor rep for the crap they put up in the earily 90's. At this point in time American cars are not really any worse than foreign cars. Heck most of the time they are cheaper.

I would say stay away from any car than has over 90k on it. It starting to get up there at that point and issues will start coming up. Also try not to get a car more than 7 years old. At around 100k is when the more expesive repairs star cropping up depending on the cars life and yes that includes the honda's. Things just start failing at 100k.


Any car that is over a 100k in miles I would throw off your list. It is just not worth the trouble to spend all that money to buy the car and then shell out a pretty penny in up keep.
You could look into the 1.8 L sentras. they 04 should be below 7k by now considering my 04 Spec V with 40k on it is down to about 9500.

[TheMonarch]

I have a 96 Accord with 189k miles. Runs beautifully, easy on gas, and the design seems to have aged well. Basically just make sure you change you're Honda's oil regularly, and it'll keep on running :cool:


My next car will probably be another Honda. Or Acura, which is still Honda :)


Edit: To answer your question, yes I'd recommend my car, or Accords in general.

[Rodimus Prime]

I have a 96 Accord with 189k miles. Runs beautifully, easy on gas, and the design seems to have aged well. Basically just make sure you change you're Honda's oil regularly, and it'll keep on running :cool:


My next car will probably be another Honda. Or Acura, which is still Honda :)


Edit: To answer your question, yes I'd recommend my car, or Accords in general.

I am not going to argue that honda's are great cars and last a very long time. My dad is on his 2nd honda. His 82 or 83 civic was 14 years old when it was sold with almost 200k on it and the engine still ran great. The Supesion was shot and it had some electrical issues but it still ran. My dad has a 99 right now with over 150k on it. It has had it clutch replaced and some other part of the clutch system replaced and it distributer and the suspension is starting to show its age.

Hell honda happens to be one of the leading brands I will be looking in a few years when I replace my Spec V. I will dump my Spec before it hits a 100k because of the known issues with Nissan's Q25 engine.

As for your Honda at 189k it is safe to say your suspension system is shot and the car has some mechanical issues starting to show up chances are the tranny is pretty beat up. Not that you will noticed this stuff because of how slowly it changes but if it was replaced it would be VERY noticable of how bad of shape it was in. I can think of plenty other parts of the car that are in bad shape. Chance are you injection ports need to be cleaned, spark plugs need to be replaced, ssuspension system is shot and around 100k the interior is in bad shape. Sorry but those items I listed it does not matter who makes your car those things just wear out.

Do not buy a car over 80k on them with your money. with your budget it is better to get a newer car with fewer miles on it than it is to go after a honda.

[TheMonarch]

As for your Honda at 189k it is safe to say your suspension system is shot and the car has some mechanical issues starting to show up chances are the tranny is pretty beat up. Not that you will noticed this stuff because of how slowly it changes but if it was replaced it would be VERY noticable of how bad of shape it was in. I can think of plenty other parts of the car that are in bad shape. Chance are you injection ports need to be cleaned, spark plugs need to be replaced, ssuspension system is shot and around 100k the interior is in bad shape. Sorry but those items I listed it does not matter who makes your car those things just wear out.

I'm not sure what you mean by a shot suspension. The car feels fine :confused:
I'm no mechanic either, so I don't know about the spark plugs or injection ports, I just go through my scheduled maintenance, which hasn't been too bad. As for the interior, it is by no means in bad shape. Not to say you'd ever confuse it for a new car or anything, but the leather is still pretty soft. Paint's fine too.

Anyways, thats beside the point, what I'm trying to say is that a car, at least reliable types like Honda, or even Toyota are still really good buys well past 80K miles. I'm not suggesting the OP should spend $10K on a Honda/Toyota with a 189kmiles on it or what not, but if the price is right, it is still well worth buying past 80k miles.

[CaptainWOW]

I've got a 2000 Subaru Outback. It's a pretty good car - nothing to write home about, but pretty good. She's a little on the slow side being an Auto / 2.5L non-turbo H-4. Still, a pretty good car.

I've also got a 2004 Nissan Xterra 4WD. I would avoid something like this - it's got a small V6 (only 3.3L) so one would expect it to get good gas mileage.... it doesn't at all, with it's big (yet stock) tires and auto tranny I average 17-18 city (and max at 24 MPG on the Highway. This is not a big SUV, it's actually on the small side yet I get Chevy Suburban gas mileage...:mad:

With gas prices what they are in California I've been driving my Subie more and more but still want something better than 27 MPG. I think I'll wait for Summer '08 when the new 50 state legal Diesel Jetta becomes available and snatch one up. 50+ MPG on just plain Diesel fuel. Yes, thank you.

I also had an '89 Isuzu Trooper that was originally my Moms (bought new in 89) and then passed on to my brother and then to me. I "traded" it in when I bought the Xterra. Had 193k miles on it at the time - had nothing seriously wrong with it ever. Only had the clutch replaced once. Nothing else other than the occasional air filter or battery (both very normal wear and tear things). It was a great SUV. Took me to Canada and back twice and a few times down to Mexico for some 4x4ing. Although, they were pretty hit or miss when it came to reliability - I guess I was just lucky and got one of the good ones.....

[biturbomunkie]

i'll probably check out the '02 focus w/ 52k mi and the '03 focus w/ 58k mi. i guess it all depends on how long you gonna keep the car, but i'd try to get one w/ the lowest miles possible in the price range.

idk, but i feel that you can probably get an '01+ focus/corolla/civic w/ much lower mile (< 40k mi) for under $7k. but i'm no car salesman so i could be wrong.

[giangimac]

Toy RAV4 ....... :D

[Rodimus Prime]

I'm not sure what you mean by a shot suspension. The car feels fine :confused:
I'm no mechanic either, so I don't know about the spark plugs or injection ports, I just go through my scheduled maintenance, which hasn't been too bad. As for the interior, it is by no means in bad shape. Not to say you'd ever confuse it for a new car or anything, but the leather is still pretty soft. Paint's fine too.

Anyways, thats beside the point, what I'm trying to say is that a car, at least reliable types like Honda, or even Toyota are still really good buys well past 80K miles. I'm not suggesting the OP should spend $10K on a Honda/Toyota with a 189kmiles on it or what not, but if the price is right, it is still well worth buying past 80k miles.
By shot suspension I am saying it is bad shape and should be replaced. The reason you would not noticed is suspension go bad very slowly so you would not realize it is in bad shape. If you had it replaced you would noticed a huge improvement.
But like I was saying after a 100k it does not matter on the brand because that is when things start going wrong. Some cars are better than others but still it is when huge things tend to start going wrong.

[NightFlight]

i think the OP knows already. but as mentioned numerous times in the thread, the saab 9-2x is a subaru impreza (aka reliable japanese car) w/ saab's suspensions and appointments. the 9-2x is manufactoered by fuji heavy industries in japan. it can be had w/ a turbocharged engine and comes standard w/ awd, which means the saab will out handle civics, corollas, accords, etc. :)

I run group two at Summit Point and have been to multiple driving schools. I can't tell you how many times I have heard people say that their AWD WRX or Evo handles and they are ALWAYS the ones that are stuffed into the tire wall. AWD doesn't do much for handling and I have been racing for a long time now, do not rely on it. Stock WRXs handle like a PIG I don't care what anyone says.

I think you can find better cars than that list you have there but if I had to choose I would get the 2000 Accord EX :)

[biturbomunkie]

I run group two at Summit Point and have been to multiple driving schools. I can't tell you how many times I have heard people say that their AWD WRX or Evo handles and they are ALWAYS the ones that are stuffed into the tire wall. AWD doesn't do much for handling and I have been racing for a long time now, do not rely on it. Stock WRXs handle like a PIG I don't care what anyone says.

I think you can find better cars than that list you have there but if I had to choose I would get the 2000 Accord EX :)

incompetent drivers will always be incompetent regardless of drivetrains, awd doesn't entitle you to play god w/ physics. put those ppl you mentioned in fwds and see what happens. :)

the saab-tuned suspensions on the 9-2x are very good for stock, i have never heard of anyone complaining about them. in fact, subaru asked gm for those suspensions to put on its own impreza.

in any case, i do agree and have mentioned that the OP should be able to get a lower mileage '01+ with the said budget.

if you have been racing for a long time, you can't be seriously telling me that wrong-wheel-drive > awd. i'd agree if it was rwd > awd in some circumstances. i'm sure you have heard of the unfair advantage, right? :)

[Rodimus Prime]

I run group two at Summit Point and have been to multiple driving schools. I can't tell you how many times I have heard people say that their AWD WRX or Evo handles and they are ALWAYS the ones that are stuffed into the tire wall. AWD doesn't do much for handling and I have been racing for a long time now, do not rely on it. Stock WRXs handle like a PIG I don't care what anyone says.

I think you can find better cars than that list you have there but if I had to choose I would get the 2000 Accord EX :)

more it is AWD make people feel cocky on ice because they have AWD/ 4x. Reality is all AWD does is help one go forward. The problem with ice is the fact that it is harder to stop and turn. AWD does jack in those 2 areas in saving your rear.

[ryannel2003]

This is an old thread... but I just gotta to respond.

Two years ago, my grandmother passed away. Around this time, my parents were gonna get me a new car. Come to find out, they decided to buy her car from my grandpa. A 2000 Toyota Camry LE 4 cylinder. 32k miles, alloy wheels, leather seats, sunroof, the whole shebang. Bought it for $10,300. I have put gas in the car, cleaned it many times, put 2 new sets of tires, added another 33k to the odometer, and gotten the oil changed every 3,000 miles. The only problem: the shifter cover broke. After 2 years of hard driving, that's the only problem I've ever dealt with. It's amazing how well built the car is compared to what else is out there. My mom's '05 GMC Yukon XL hasn't held up as well compared to my almost 8 year old Camry. My leather looks like brand new, the exterior still looks great (aside from normal scratches and dents) and the car drives just as good as the day my grandma bought it from Toyota. I would highly recommend the Toyota Camry, it's an amazing car that, with regular maintenance and good care, can easily run for 300-400k miles. Maybe even more. I have considered trading my car in for something newer and flashier, but I can't. I plan on keeping my car for a long, long time.

[JOEDIRT]

I have a 02 Subaru Impreza WRX. Love it. Very solid and well built car. Not a luxury car but a quality car. These cars are loved by all the car mags and car enthusiasts, that's how it came to my attention. It's like driving a Porsche with a station wagon body on it, a Porsche that's also great in the snow. Great seating position, great engine sound, rock steady, handles really well, very reliable, being a WRX it's turbocharged and very quick and powerful. There were some issues with some Subaru cylinder heads and trannys but they were limited to specific models and years. Look into it and you'll know what to avoid if necessary.

Some cars you might be interested in are the Ford Focus, everyone seems to like those. The Ford Contour and Mercury Mystique, are under rated, good little cars that can be had for a song, as are some cars from the smaller Japanese companies, such as the Mazda Protege, Nissan Altima, etc. I like Mazdas, they are nice, well built, sportyish cars that are cheaper than the compriable Honda or Toyota. I also have a Miata and it's a great car, really fun and they have a great reputation for reliability.

Do your homework and read every thing you can before buying and you can get a great used car for surprisingly little money.

PS. Biturbomonkey is correct, the SAAB 9-2x Areo is a WRX with different front sheet metal and other minor changes. They are easier to find with an automatic I believe, as most WRXs have a manual. The 9-2x 2.5 is the non turbo version and has 170 hp rather than 230.

agree totally

but those who say that the WRX/EVO doesn't handle better i tend to say your wrong...depending on the conditions

No car will stop on a dime on ice...AWD, FWD, or RWD
when driving a FWD in the winter and driving a AWD in the winter there is no comparison, obviously the AWD is better! you can power out of your turn properly if you know how, yes Subaru's are bad for "understeer" but that can be corrected....

it all depend what your doing and your life style...if you do alot of highway driving and commuting then i wouldn't buy an AWD

but personally if you live in a place where u get snow, like to rip it up, hate to get stuck and want something reliable, then buy a scubby!

if not Honda or a Toyo thats my 2 cents

[gauchogolfer]

I recently got a 2003 Forester with 35k miles on it, and it's been great. We have a Legacy wagon also, and will likely get another Subaru when the wagon goes. I imagine it will be an Impreza.

[true777]

Toyota RAV4 or Suzuki Sidekick/Geo Tracker/Suzuki Vitara.

[ErikCLDR]

more it is AWD make people feel cocky on ice because they have AWD/ 4x. Reality is all AWD does is help one go forward. The problem with ice is the fact that it is harder to stop and turn. AWD does jack in those 2 areas in saving your rear.

AWD will help a little with turning. If your back end starts to fishtail tapping the gas can help straighten you out.

Stability Control also works wonders.

Regardless what ever drive train you have drive safely and don't get confident. 4wd, TC, SC, etc doesn't make you invincible.

[jalagl]

For sure, no doubt about it. I have a 2001 Honda Civic. I bought it brand new, and right now it is approaching 57,000km (~35,000 miles). I've only had to replace the lights a couple of times. Never had any mechanical problems with it. And it has superb fuel economy.

[thebassoonist]

So... tomorrow I am going out for my first checking out the cars I'm most interested in (I'm only going to dealerships tomorrow).

Here are the four cars I'm going to be looking at:

1997 Honda Civic LX Sedan for $4795. It has 144000 miles and is a manual.
2003 Toyota Echo for $6990. It has 84000 miles and is automatic.
2001 Toyota Corolla CE for $5995. It has 83000 miles and is automatic.
2001 Toyota Corolla LE for $4900. It has 73000 miles and is automatic.

The last two I'm not sure about. I only want to go see three cars, but I think I might go look at both. I wonder if there is something wrong with the last one or something exceptional about the first one.

Anything in particular I should take a look at or ask about when seeing a car?

Thanks!

[ryannel2003]

The price of the two Corolla's look a little suspect... i've seen similar cars still pulling 6-7k at dealerships. When you do test the cars, make sure to drive it over all kinds of surfaces (smooth, rough, potholes, etc.) to see if the car makes any unusual sounds. Also check to see if they leak any oil, and do a walk around of the cars and make sure everything looks alright. If they've been in an accident, the body panels could be mis-aligned or even pained a slightly different color. Ask dealer for a Carfax, as that should give some information about the cars past. Also, ask the dealer (if they know) who owned the car previously. Older ladies and men always tend to keep the car dealer maintained, and some even keep records for everything done to the car. Also check to see if things like timing belt's and pumps have been replaced (My car is 90k, not sure about the Echo or Corolla's time intervals).

I would also recommend checking out some late model Accord's or Camry's. The latter is always a recommendation of mine, finding that you can find a '95-'99 for around $5-6k with 100k in good condition. Plus, I just averaged 26MPG in my Camry for strictly stop and go traffic. Good luck!

[twistedlegato]

How about an Infiniti G20? Great cars they are.

[thebassoonist]

The price of the two Corolla's look a little suspect... i've seen similar cars still pulling 6-7k at dealerships. When you do test the cars, make sure to drive it over all kinds of surfaces (smooth, rough, potholes, etc.) to see if the car makes any unusual sounds. Also check to see if they leak any oil, and do a walk around of the cars and make sure everything looks alright. If they've been in an accident, the body panels could be mis-aligned or even pained a slightly different color. Ask dealer for a Carfax, as that should give some information about the cars past. Also, ask the dealer (if they know) who owned the car previously. Older ladies and men always tend to keep the car dealer maintained, and some even keep records for everything done to the car. Also check to see if things like timing belt's and pumps have been replaced (My car is 90k, not sure about the Echo or Corolla's time intervals).

I would also recommend checking out some late model Accord's or Camry's. The latter is always a recommendation of mine, finding that you can find a '95-'99 for around $5-6k with 100k in good condition. Plus, I just averaged 26MPG in my Camry for strictly stop and go traffic. Good luck!

The LE was in very bad condition and the engine didn't sound very good (I sort of expected it as it was very inexpensive). The CE had been sold by the time I got to the dealer. I test drove a 1997 VE Corolla and was disappointed in the amount of power it had (I was spoiled with my 1995 Saturn SL2 manual). I test drove a 1999 Saturn SL for 6K. I liked it much more than the two Corollas but then I drove out to see the Echo. I was very impressed. I got a Carfax and it had been in two little accidents. I could tell where they were (in the front, based on how the headlights looks) but there was no frame damage or anything like that. In fact, I had to look very closely to tell. It had good pick up. I drove in on the freeway and, with my mum's advice, got it up to 80 MPH in no time. I am going to try to haggle the dealer down to 7500 (including taxes, registration, etc).

The Saturn isn't on CR's good buy list and it was manual. I loved my 1995 Saturn but I am ready for something new and different. Driving the Echo I realized how much I really do want automatic and with my little sister about to learn how to drive, I think it will be a much better car for her. It also got good government crash test results (slightly better than the Saturn's).

I'll let you know if I end up buying the car and, don't worry, I'll post pictures!

[ryannel2003]

The LE was in very bad condition and the engine didn't sound very good (I sort of expected it as it was very inexpensive). The CE had been sold by the time I got to the dealer. I test drove a 1997 VE Corolla and was disappointed in the amount of power it had (I was spoiled with my 1995 Saturn SL2 manual). I test drove a 1999 Saturn SL for 6K. I liked it much more than the two Corollas but then I drove out to see the Echo. I was very impressed. I got a Carfax and it had been in two little accidents. I could tell where they were (in the front, based on how the headlights looks) but there was no frame damage or anything like that. In fact, I had to look very closely to tell. It had good pick up. I drove in on the freeway and, with my mum's advice, got it up to 80 MPH in no time. I am going to try to haggle the dealer down to 7500 (including taxes, registration, etc).

The Saturn isn't on CR's good buy list and it was manual. I loved my 1995 Saturn but I am ready for something new and different. Driving the Echo I realized how much I really do want automatic and with my little sister about to learn how to drive, I think it will be a much better car for her. It also got good government crash test results (slightly better than the Saturn's).

I'll let you know if I end up buying the car and, don't worry, I'll post pictures!

Yeah that generation of Corolla really lacks the power necessary for it to get up and go. That car is also very small, and just doesn't have a lot of great features other cars in the class had. I've never driven an Echo, but they are very roomy cars. Plus, it has Toyota dependability and those cars are also extremely reliable. What color was it, and is it a two or four door?

As for the Saturn and CR, you have to take CR with a grain of salt. My mom had two GMC Yukon's, both of were on the list. Turns out, both needed transmission replacements. It's really hard to tell if you have a good car or a lemon by going with them, but they can be of great help.

Regardless, good luck and make sure to update and tell me how it goes! :)

[thebassoonist]

Yeah that generation of Corolla really lacks the power necessary for it to get up and go. That car is also very small, and just doesn't have a lot of great features other cars in the class had. I've never driven an Echo, but they are very roomy cars. Plus, it has Toyota dependability and those cars are also extremely reliable. What color was it, and is it a two or four door?

As for the Saturn and CR, you have to take CR with a grain of salt. My mom had two GMC Yukon's, both of were on the list. Turns out, both needed transmission replacements. It's really hard to tell if you have a good car or a lemon by going with them, but they can be of great help.

Regardless, good luck and make sure to update and tell me how it goes! :)

Good to know about CR. MR and other websites have made me feel really good about going Toyota (as well as a friend who told me that she got 17 years out of a Camry or Corolla). I don't the Saturn would be a bad car choice, I just think there's something better out there. Maybe the Echo!

The Echo is a 4-door and is silver. Driving in it, it felt a little like my mom's Subaru Forester. I felt like I was higher than I did in my Saturn. It also has a lot of head room which will be nice when I drive my 6'4" brother around and it had a lot of room, surprisingly, in the back.

Yikes! I just keep talking myself into this car more and more!

[ryannel2003]

Good to know about CR. MR and other websites have made me feel really good about going Toyota (as well as a friend who told me that she got 17 years out of a Camry or Corolla). I don't the Saturn would be a bad car choice, I just think there's something better out there. Maybe the Echo!

The Echo is a 4-door and is silver. Driving in it, it felt a little like my mom's Subaru Forester. I felt like I was higher than I did in my Saturn. It also has a lot of head room which will be nice when I drive my 6'4" brother around and it had a lot of room, surprisingly, in the back.

Yikes! I just keep talking myself into this car more and more!

Yeah Toyota's are pretty much the most dependable cars on the road. I plan on getting many more years and miles out of my Camry, which only has 65k miles right now. But good luck with the Echo, they're pretty cool little cars.

[thebassoonist]

So, I bought the car I never thought I would... another Saturn (I put a 1995 Saturn SL2 to rest in November).

It is a Saturn SC2 2000. It's a three door coupe, silver, automatic, averages 30 MPG-ish combined and came with 59,000 miles on it.

The inside looks brand new. The passenger side carpet had absolutely no wear. It has power windows, cruise control, keyless entry, etc. The third door makes it just as good as a four door, really.

It also has an alarm system which is nice. It has the factory cd/tape player. And that's about all I can think of.

Oh, yeah, one more thing. It was $5,500 minus taxes, etc. It has so much power and when I drove it home I thought, I really like this car.

Enjoy the pictures and thanks so much for all of your feedback. Someday, when I have the money, I'm going to buy a Toyota Prius or Matrix (or whatever the far future holds). I was disappointed in the Toyotas that were in my price range and the Hondas were few and far between.

My hope is that this car lasts ten years! Wish me luck! (My Saturn SL2 kept up for 12!)

[kitki83]

I know I am going to be flamed but I got a new VW Jetta (2007, Year anniversary). Honestly its new so I can't say its surviving but I was in a rear end accident. Honestly I was sold with this car, the impact was big and to see the damage I received compared to the 2002 Honda Accord I knew i was in a safe car. My car had one line scratch, no one even noticed it when I said I was in car accident but the person who hit me from behind (of course was on cell phone) totally trashed his bumper.

I know Jetta has bad reviews in the last decade but I am sold knowing how well built it is for my safety.

[MarkCollette]

My previous car was a Toyota Echo 2003, automatic transmission with 4 doors. I totally recommend a car like that. Or a 2004. My current car is a Toyota Corolla 2007, also with an automatic transmission and 4 doors. It cost a bit more, and is nicer in many ways, but doesn't have as much head room as the Echo. Plus the Echos were made in Japan and have higher reliability ratings. Not sure how good the older Corollas were, since I never looked, back then.

[ryannel2003]

So, I bought the car I never thought I would... another Saturn (I put a 1995 Saturn SL2 to rest in November).

It is a Saturn SC2 2000. It's a three door coupe, silver, automatic, averages 30 MPG-ish combined and came with 59,000 miles on it.

The inside looks brand new. The passenger side carpet had absolutely no wear. It has power windows, cruise control, keyless entry, etc. The third door makes it just as good as a four door, really.

It also has an alarm system which is nice. It has the factory cd/tape player. And that's about all I can think of.

Oh, yeah, one more thing. It was $5,500 minus taxes, etc. It has so much power and when I drove it home I thought, I really like this car.

Enjoy the pictures and thanks so much for all of your feedback. Someday, when I have the money, I'm going to buy a Toyota Prius or Matrix (or whatever the far future holds). I was disappointed in the Toyotas that were in my price range and the Hondas were few and far between.

My hope is that this car lasts ten years! Wish me luck! (My Saturn SL2 kept up for 12!)

A friend of mine had a banana yellow SC2 just like that. Same year I believe, and she was driving down the road and the car slid, flipped a couple of times, and landed on the roof. She walked away from the crash with a couple of scratches, but pretty much unscathed.

Congrats though! It's a really nice looking car. At that price, heck I would've picked that up over a Toyota or Honda.

[methodmano]

1994 Jeep Cherokee. Manual everything. Rear wheel drive.

For most things, no, I would not recommend it. However, it has the best steering wheel I've ever used - it just responds insanely good to the steering wheel.

[thebassoonist]

A friend of mine had a banana yellow SC2 just like that. Same year I believe, and she was driving down the road and the car slid, flipped a couple of times, and landed on the roof. She walked away from the crash with a couple of scratches, but pretty much unscathed.

Congrats though! It's a really nice looking car. At that price, heck I would've picked that up over a Toyota or Honda.

Well! I'm glad that she survived! Was it icy or something?

Saturday it snowed here, and I drove it home on the freeway. I was going at a snail's pace (for me anyway, ha ha), and it did just fine.

Anyway, I guess the point is that she survived!

[ryannel2003]

Well! I'm glad that she survived! Was it icy or something?

Saturday it snowed here, and I drove it home on the freeway. I was going at a snail's pace (for me anyway, ha ha), and it did just fine.

Anyway, I guess the point is that she survived!

It was on some gravel road, and she wasn't paying attention. Went around the curb too fast, and just flipped over multiple times. Saturn's are known to be pretty safe cars, so that's always a good thing!

[Bootsie]

Until almost exactly a year ago (Mar 6) I had a 1999 Honda civic, I loved that car! It was great, I sold it for $8500 with 68K, and I bought a 2007 Honda Civic LX Auto, love it even more! I added a few extras to it, wheels/tires, sound system, ect. Great cars, I recommend them to anyone who asks. :)

[Flowero4ka]

Sounds good. Has anyone ever had a Subaru Impreza or heard anything about them?

My bf had this car. He liked it. The high quality! The only problem - is an expensive service.

[Antares]

A Ford Focus would suit you perfectly. Great little car for your purposes. It's a quality car that is reliable, comfortable and fun!

[tip]

boy american car makes are still dealing with a poor rep for the crap they put up in the earily 90's. At this point in time American cars are not really any worse than foreign cars. Heck most of the time they are cheaper.
In regard to GM, I STRONGLY disagree with this. I've owned recent American cars from Olds (Alero) to Chevy (Malibu) and at some point after 50k, things start to fall apart ..... fast. That Malibu was the worst car I have ever owned.

The resale value was horrible for those cars as well.

Now, I can't speak for Ford, since I've never owned one. They might have actually improved.

I currently own two Hondas, a Toyota, and a Nissan. The Nissan does have some issues, I'll admit (but then again it's an early 90s car). The Hondas and Toyota are completely worry-free. One of my Hondas (Accord) is nearing 100k miles. Absolutely no problems.