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gkarris
Jan 12, 2008, 02:01 PM
From AppleInsider.com:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/11/report_claims_major_apple_tv_update_in_the_pipeline.html

Friday, January 11, 2008
Report claims "major" Apple TV update in the pipeline

By AppleInsider Staff
Published: 11:00 AM EST

Apple is planning a major upgrade of its slow-selling Apple TV set-top box as part of a new offensive to try to boost its share of the digital video download market, according to BusinessWeek.

However, the business publication offers no details of the initiative other than to say that the new hardware device should arrive around the same time Apple launches its iTunes movie rental service.

Conversing with American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu, BusinessWeek speculates that one possibility is that Apple might add a TV tuner to the product later this year.

The remainder of the report recounts the hurdles Apple chief executive Steve Jobs has faced while trying to replicate his success in the music business over in the digital video download sector.

It notes that Disney and Fox have agreed to support the upcoming iTunes rental service, but have different terms for when movies will be made available.

Independent Lions Gate, on the other hand, may agree to let Apple rent its stuff, but not sell its newer releases, the report adds.

Sony and Universal -- both fierce Apple rivals -- are unlikely to back the initiative.



zedsdead
Jan 12, 2008, 02:07 PM
From AppleInsider.com:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/11/report_claims_major_apple_tv_update_in_the_pipeline.html

I saw this too, but again it seems like it is coming from analysts, and they don't do much more than we do...the analysts about Blu-Ray in the Mac Pro was wrong...

However, I do expect an Apple TV update at Macworld as I said in other posts, I just hope it has to do with the Apple TV too, not just rentals in iTunes.

Wild-Bill
Jan 12, 2008, 02:09 PM
"Something's in the air" = tv tuner on AppleTV.

Gotta be.

sunfast
Jan 12, 2008, 02:14 PM
"Something's in the air" = tv tuner on AppleTV.

Gotta be.

Good speculatay

Apple TV does need a kick in the arse, to say the least

levitynyc
Jan 12, 2008, 02:25 PM
Good speculatay

Apple TV does need a kick in the arse, to say the least

Not going to happen. How would a TV Tuner make Apple money? On Air TV is backwards thinking...which is why there WONT be a DVD drive in the Apple TV either and why there is no FM tuner in an iPod.

bsheridan
Jan 12, 2008, 02:29 PM
They better announced some advance for the UK market!
we cant even get movies from itunes.
+ we pay more for purchases - song in US: $0.99, song in UK: £0.79
but i heard they're reducing it to £0.74, thanks alot apple, made my day with that 5p:rolleyes:

gkarris
Jan 12, 2008, 02:30 PM
They better announced some advance for the UK market!
we cant even get movies from itunes.
+ we pay more for purchases - song in US: $0.99, song in UK: £0.79
but i heard they're reducing it to £0.74, thanks alot apple, made my day with that 5p:rolleyes:

That makes sense. In places where you can't get video downloads, just get it off the air, that would mean the :apple:TV would also have DVR capabilities!

TelescopeEyes
Jan 12, 2008, 10:31 PM
A TV Tuner won't do anything for the :apple:TV. Blu-Ray is the only way to go. Oh, and 1080P.

peeaanuut
Jan 12, 2008, 11:32 PM
adding Blu-ray has no continual dollar for Apple. Its going to be rentals and probably the store. We might see a capacity jump but I dont see DVR, TV Tuner nor DVD/Blu-ray being added as Apple will only make the one sale and no continued media dollar.

CWallace
Jan 13, 2008, 12:04 AM
adding Blu-ray has no continual dollar for Apple. Its going to be rentals and probably the store. We might see a capacity jump but I dont see DVR, TV Tuner nor DVD/Blu-ray being added as Apple will only make the one sale and no continued media dollar.

I am strongly inclined to agree.

dmr727
Jan 13, 2008, 12:41 AM
Apple is trying to kill physical media. Why would they put a DVD player in their AppleTV?

Peace
Jan 13, 2008, 12:57 AM
Blue-Ray could be in the Apple TV and here's why.

Along with the rest of the world Apple realizes the war is over and BR won.As do the media giants. Selling BR is now going to be a top priority to both Apple and the media.

Several studios have been rumored to be jumping on board Apple's rental service. But with reasonable expectations. In order to sell more BR discs and downloads some have started including special iPod/iPhone versions on the discs. These can be synched through iTunes and could also be transferable via Bluetooth.

The new Apple TV could have bluetooth built in as the new Mac Pros do.Synch to any device in the home.

Folks would watch a BR disc on the Apple TV and at the same time synch a small version to your iPod/iPhone.Take it to work and show it to a co-worker.The co-worker likes the movie and goes out and buys the BR version so he too could watch a HD DVD and transfer a small file to their device thus perpetuating the sale of the physical disc.
Those not wanting to buy the BR disc can still download the DVD quality version and stream it to the TV via Apple TV.Friends come over and you show them the movie and they too decide to go get an Apple product or a BR disc.

And on it goes..
Perfect moneymaker for all involved.

SeanGood79
Jan 13, 2008, 01:19 AM
If Apple supports Blu Ray, Sony could make it's movies available on iTunes.
Win Win

levitynyc
Jan 13, 2008, 01:29 AM
Blue-Ray could be in the Apple TV and here's why.



Nope...here's why not......it will cost 600 bucks.

The cheapest bluray player is 350 bucks. You know Apple wants to make profit on this and wouldnt sell it anywhere near cost.

Blu Ray is NOT coming to the :apple:TV

digmo
Jan 13, 2008, 04:12 AM
I can't see blu ray coming when macs don't support it yet.

It would be great if it allowed external storage.
Some people are saying TVR but I can't see Apple competing with Elegato unless they allowed elgato devices to attach to the device - that would be cool :)

Digmo
www.digmo.tv

aswitcher
Jan 13, 2008, 04:15 AM
And there is a new BluRay standard so waiting is not such a bad idea.

TelescopeEyes
Jan 13, 2008, 07:49 AM
Nope...here's why not......it will cost 600 bucks.

The cheapest bluray player is 350 bucks. You know Apple wants to make profit on this and wouldnt sell it anywhere near cost.

Blu Ray is NOT coming to the :apple:TV

Try $250, and it's even cheaper now for external BD drives for PC's. The prices are coming down.

CWallace
Jan 13, 2008, 09:37 AM
If Apple supports Blu Ray, Sony could make it's movies available on iTunes. Win Win

If Apple adds Blu-Ray to the :apple:tv, why bother downloading the content from the iTunes Store when you can just rent/own it? Especially when the latter offers higher quality?

It is the same reason they won't add DVR functionality. Why would I buy an episode of "24" in SD from the iTunes store when I can DVR it in HD from my cable provider?

thebluemonkey
Jan 13, 2008, 02:10 PM
I wonder if Apple is actually making any money from video downloads, I may be wrong but don't Apple make a paltry sum from downloaded music and the main reason is so they sell ipods ?

With the terms and conditions that the content providers want constantly changing it must be eating up loads of time and effort getting each new provider onboard, which could be used on profitable enterprises.

As we have seen the content providers aren't loyal to one system and change at the end of their contracts so it's not like they will get locked out forever if they don't make it work right at this minute. I wonder if Apple are considering stepping back from the content provision business till the companies come back with a more even keeled deal ?

Scarpad
Jan 13, 2008, 02:12 PM
SO I guess us Apple TV Early Adopters are gonna Get hosed..

Peace
Jan 13, 2008, 02:13 PM
Nope...here's why not......it will cost 600 bucks.

The cheapest bluray player is 350 bucks. You know Apple wants to make profit on this and wouldnt sell it anywhere near cost.

Blu Ray is NOT coming to the :apple:TV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWUpBDeKJVg
;)

digmo
Jan 13, 2008, 03:35 PM
I hope early adopters don't get hosed... although I am wondering if this statement about an Elgato EyeTv 3.0

http://www.tuaw.com/2008/01/13/elgato-to-release-eyetv-3-0-on-tuesday/

on the same day has anything to do with it ? perhaps a stronger link with the elgato software and AppleTV ?

It looks as if it is a major upgrade too, fingers crossed the news on AppleTV will be software rather than a new product (as an early adopter).

Digmo
www.digmo.tv

Brianstorm91
Jan 13, 2008, 03:41 PM
I really couldn't care less about Apple TV, to be honest.
:p

davidwarren
Jan 13, 2008, 03:52 PM
I read last week that this year cable tv will be standardized. Perhaps if apple puts a tuner and blu-ray plater in the atv, then they are counting on the standardization and planning on the atv being the only box you will need with your tv. I would buy that.

filmguy15
Jan 13, 2008, 04:18 PM
I still don't understand why anyone expects DVR or Blu-ray in the Apple TV.....It isn't going to happen folks. It is completely opposite of Apple's idea of a physical media-free world. Apple plans for the future and changes industries, they won't just bow to trendy new technologies to please a few dense people that bought an Apple TV wanting it to become something it isn't. It is a media bridge between iTunes and your TV......that's it. Apple doesn't care if all the "DVR-wishers" don't buy it, because that isn't who they are trying to sell it to. They are trying to sell it to people who DON'T WANT TO FOOL WITH CABLE ANYMORE, and DON'T WANT TO GO OUT TO BUY/RENT MOVIES ANYMORE.

levitynyc
Jan 13, 2008, 06:06 PM
I still don't understand why anyone expects DVR or Blu-ray in the Apple TV.....It isn't going to happen folks. It is completely opposite of Apple's idea of a physical media-free world. Apple plans for the future and changes industries, they won't just bow to trendy new technologies to please a few dense people that bought an Apple TV wanting it to become something it isn't. It is a media bridge between iTunes and your TV......that's it. Apple doesn't care if all the "DVR-wishers" don't buy it, because that isn't who they are trying to sell it to. They are trying to sell it to people who DON'T WANT TO FOOL WITH CABLE ANYMORE, and DON'T WANT TO GO OUT TO BUY/RENT MOVIES ANYMORE.

Amen.....

aswitcher
Jan 13, 2008, 06:09 PM
I really couldn't care less about Apple TV, to be honest.
:p

I am the same. Unless it becomes a lot cheaper or has an AEBS built in an is only a bit more expensive, I just dont need it.

superleccy
Jan 13, 2008, 06:32 PM
Another two reasons why DVR won't be part of :apple:TV:

There's too many standards of Digital TV throughout the world, and Apple aren't going to support them all. In the UK alone, there's at least three, at least one of which is proprietary. Okay, Apple could open up an API so people could plug in the correct Elgato device, but...
Elgato's EyeTV effectively gives users DRM-free content, and the ability to edit-out advertisements, which I am sure brands the users and Elgato as "criminals" in the eyes of the big media corps. SJ wants to play nice with the media corps, so they put their movies on iTMS (and keep their music on iTMS). He's not gonna be seen to encourage "the criminals" by explicitly building-in such functionality into :apple:TV.

Okay, maybe there could be some kind of DVR capability, but it'd rely on additional hardware and be crippled by DRM and poor editing features... which would make me want to stick with EyeTV and a "proper" Mac.

As for Blu-ray, nice idea, but I think it'd just be too expensive... unless the Blu-ray consortium felt like subsidising the retail price.

SL

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 13, 2008, 06:35 PM
How the hell can you call yourself TV with no cable or satellite input? Apple TV is a farse without it in my view. Instead ill be getting a Elgato product to bring TV into my Mac. Wake up Jobs.

Virgil-TB2
Jan 13, 2008, 06:57 PM
Apple is trying to kill physical media. Why would they put a DVD player in their AppleTV?They may include it as an option simply because people have DVD players already and putting one in the AppleTV will allow it to be replaced.

For instance I am in the market for a new DVD player. I am also thinking of buying an AppleTV. An optical drive to play DVD's is pretty much a commodity item today so why not throw one in if the consumer wants one? Lets face it, everyone has some kind of DVD player sitting under the TV, and they take up a lot of space.

Additionally, the deal with AppleTV and iTunes in general is that they are still severely lacking in content. Adding an optical drive would not only allow people to play their DVD collection it would provide a way to get those "iPod copies" off of the disc and copy (legal) content onto the main drive.

levitynyc
Jan 13, 2008, 07:21 PM
They may include it as an option simply because people have DVD players already and putting one in the AppleTV will allow it to be replaced.

For instance I am in the market for a new DVD player. I am also thinking of buying an AppleTV. An optical drive to play DVD's is pretty much a commodity item today so why not throw one in if the consumer wants one? Lets face it, everyone has some kind of DVD player sitting under the TV, and they take up a lot of space.

Additionally, the deal with AppleTV and iTunes in general is that they are still severely lacking in content. Adding an optical drive would not only allow people to play their DVD collection it would provide a way to get those "iPod copies" off of the disc and copy (legal) content onto the main drive.

Apple hasn't pit out an fm iPod for the same reason they won't put a DVD player in the apple tv.


Its not happening. Face it.

zedsdead
Jan 13, 2008, 08:11 PM
Apple hasn't pit out an fm iPod for the same reason they won't put a DVD player in the apple tv.


Its not happening. Face it.

I wouldn't be so sure...it is one of the most requested features for the Apple TV...also think about it...Apple can sell it as a not only an iTunes Bridge, but as a literal replacement for your DVD player...this will get more people interested in getting the device, at which point they will be more inclined to buy stuff right from iTunes once the store is right in the Apple TV interface.

billabong
Jan 13, 2008, 08:14 PM
I wouldn't be so sure...it is one of the most requested features for the Apple TV...also think about it...Apple can sell it as a not only an iTunes Bridge, but as a literal replacement for your DVD player...this will get more people interested in getting the device, at which point they will be more inclined to buy stuff right from iTunes once the store is right in the Apple TV interface.

They wouldn't put a dvd player as that is old technology on it's way out. They could however put a bluray player in it...

jaw04005
Jan 13, 2008, 09:06 PM
It looks like they won't be doing an update to the hardware of the device, as most major online retailers and the Apple Store report the item as "In Stock. Ships within 24 hours."

Here's hoping they open the platform to developers for plug-in support (I'm talking to you El Gato).

gkarris
Jan 13, 2008, 09:18 PM
It looks like they won't be doing an update to the hardware of the device, as most major online retailers and the Apple Store report the item as "In Stock. Ships within 24 hours."

Here's hoping they open the platform to developers for plug-in support (I'm talking to you El Gato).

I'm hearing that the new core OS will be based on Leopard. Here's hoping of being able to download and use OS X widgets on it...

Duffinator
Jan 13, 2008, 09:31 PM
I still don't understand why anyone expects DVR or Blu-ray in the Apple TV.....It isn't going to happen folks. It is completely opposite of Apple's idea of a physical media-free world. Apple plans for the future and changes industries, they won't just bow to trendy new technologies to please a few dense people that bought an Apple TV wanting it to become something it isn't. It is a media bridge between iTunes and your TV......that's it. Apple doesn't care if all the "DVR-wishers" don't buy it, because that isn't who they are trying to sell it to. They are trying to sell it to people who DON'T WANT TO FOOL WITH CABLE ANYMORE, and DON'T WANT TO GO OUT TO BUY/RENT MOVIES ANYMORE.Agreed. The Sat/Cable companies have the DVR market locked and there is little to no profit to be made from outside parties. Think TiVo. Downloading movies, and all media, is where the future lies and I hope my ATV does not become obsolete this week.

cuestakid
Jan 13, 2008, 09:52 PM
Apple will never release any kind of DVR-they don't want you to record the shows from TV-they want you to buy them from itunes-same goes for movies. However, if that supposed digital copy thing with fox is real(that you can buy a physical dvd and then put it into the a mac and get a digital copy that can be played on ipods/iphone/ipod touches then things might change-

jaw04005
Jan 13, 2008, 10:49 PM
I think there a lot of posts on this thread that disregard Apple's core business model—hardware. Apple does NOT make anything off the iTunes Store.

The iTunes Store exists solely to sell iPods, Apple TVs, iPhones and Macs. If it makes a slight profit for the quarter, even better. But there is currently no money in paid premium content distribution—just look at the new Napster or Real Rhapsody. Content creators and publishers make sure of that, and Apple knows this.

There may be money in advertising-supported premium content distribution, but the major players will keep those "business opportunities" in-house (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, etc).

Tilpots
Jan 14, 2008, 08:23 AM
I think there a lot of posts on this thread that disregard Apple's core business model—hardware. Apple does NOT make anything off the iTunes Store.

The iTunes Store exists solely to sell iPods, Apple TVs, iPhones and Macs. If it makes a slight profit for the quarter, even better. But there is currently no money in paid premium content distribution—just look at the new Napster or Real Rhapsody. Content creators and publishers make sure of that, and Apple knows this.

There may be money in advertising-supported premium content distribution, but the major players will keep those "business opportunities" in-house (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, etc).

Exactly. People are buying Blu-Ray players. People are buying DVR's. Apple makes and sells hardware. See where I'm going with this? Maybe it won't be called the :apple:TV. Maybe it's a whole new product. But if App;le wants to stay in the video game, they have to make and selll the appropriate hardware. They don't mind raising the prices, either. If they can make one box that does it all, they could sell it for a premium. Any of this sounding familiar to anyone?

Carl Spackler
Jan 14, 2008, 08:59 AM
To suggest that adding a physical media player or DVR functionality to an AppleTV to avoid loss of sales from the iTMS is silly.

There are plenty of people who use "on demand" service from their cable/satellite company in addition to renting DVDs. The two are no mutually exclusive. Just like how people buy phyical CDs and buy music through download.

As much as I'd like an AppleTV to have a built in Blu-Ray player and, to a lesser degree, a DVR, I'm not so sure it'll happen, as I think it simply falls outside the scope of the product.

I would like it if they opened up the USB port for an external drive and added DVD Player functionality when the external drive was detected.

CWallace
Jan 14, 2008, 10:21 AM
I think there a lot of posts on this thread that disregard Apple's core business model—hardware. Apple does NOT make anything off the iTunes Store.

And yet Apple is starting to understand that there is money to be made outside of hardware and you get the advantage of an ongoing revenue stream instead of a one-shot deal.

Witness the iPhone. A great idea that has sold like gangbusters. Apple could have just released it in an open format and sold even more. Instead, they partner with a provider and take a not insignificant cut of that action, bringing them a revenue stream for two years that is close to equal of the initial revenue they made from the sale. It allows them to stretch the iPhone's RoI without being forced to release a new version quickly to both drive new sales and to get current users to scrap their handset for the new one while still brining in money in the interim.

Apple is already starting to yield on the demands of the studios when it comes to content pricing. But in so yielding, Apple can improve their own internal cut while covering it by saying "we want to give you cheap, but those bad old media companies are forcing our hand". And chances are that people who were first attracted by the price, but eventually bought in because of the model (convenience, whathaveyou), will continue to patronize the service at these new, higher prices (within reason, of course).

netdog
Jan 14, 2008, 10:29 AM
It looks like they won't be doing an update to the hardware of the device, as most major online retailers and the Apple Store report the item as "In Stock. Ships within 24 hours."


All that means is that they haven't exhausted their stock, regardless of what they do or don't plan to introduce tomorrow. Mac Pros, for instance, were deeply stocked at Apple Stores, at Apple.com and at independent retailers right up through the time when they released the new Mac Pros.

netdog
Jan 14, 2008, 10:30 AM
double post.

deleted.

iLunar
Jan 14, 2008, 11:30 AM
Maybe an appleTV with integrated slingbox?

CWallace
Jan 14, 2008, 12:57 PM
Maybe an appleTV with integrated slingbox?

Someone mocked up a fake wireless NAS and said it will be announced tomorrow at MWSF.

While the mock-up is fake, the idea has merit. It would allow content to be streamed to a Mac, an :apple:tv, an iPhone and an iPod Touch over WiFi and would not require the Mac to be on since that is usually where most current content is stored in the home (due to available space).

If it could be integrated to the iTunes Store so content purchased via any of those devices could be sent to the NAS (either directly or when the device was next synced), that would improve it's usefulness and value even more.

ccortez
Jan 14, 2008, 01:52 PM
The new Apple TV could have bluetooth built in as the new Mac Pros do.Synch to any device in the home.

It would have to at least work better than the bluetooth in my phone sync'd with the bluetooth in my phone headset only a few scant feet away but admittedly in a pocket sometimes. Maybe if I don't keep my refrigerator in my pocket I can get it involved in the wireless nirvana that is bluetooth and my ATV can tell me when my milk expires. :eek:

jaw04005
Jan 14, 2008, 02:09 PM
Witness the iPhone. A great idea that has sold like gangbusters. Apple could have just released it in an open format and sold even more. Instead, they partner with a provider and take a not insignificant cut of that action, bringing them a revenue stream for two years that is close to equal of the initial revenue they made from the sale.

It's a noble idea, but the content industry believes Apple needs them more than they need Apple.

You could put movies on your iPod as soon as the 5th generation iPod was released. However, movie studios were/are not clamoring to put their content on iPod. Paramount had to be caressed into joining (Disney was given).

Apple is having a hard enough time keeping current partners involved (look at what happened with NBC).

Cingular (at the time) was dying to get the iPhone exclusively. They knew it would be cause an influx of consumers to switch over and agreed to Apple's price because they are a service provider.

Television and movies studios are in a completely different situation. They don't sell their products directly. Apple is one of many distributors. If they're smart, they we will realize that they need distribution channels to make money and refusing to "sell wholesale" (theoretically speaking) to one of the largest online distributors is not wise for shareholders.

spice weasel
Jan 14, 2008, 02:11 PM
"Something's in the air" = tv tuner on AppleTV.

Gotta be.

I'm sure it has do to with the MacBook Air rumors, not AppleTV.