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MacRumors
Jan 15, 2008, 12:34 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple announced that as of last week, the iTunes Store has sold over 4 billion songs. A new single-day record was set this past Christmas Day (December 25, 2007) with 20 million songs sold in 24 hours.

iTunes Movie Rentals
Touchstone, Mirimax, MGM, Lionsgate, Newline, Fox, WB, Disney, Paramount, Universal & Sony all on board.Over 1000 movies - available 30 days after the DVD release of the film.
Watch anywhere - Macs, PCs, all current iPods and iPhone.
Watch instantly - 30 second delay with modern broadband
Rules - 30 days to start watching, 24 hours to complete once started
Pricing - $2.99, new releases $3.99

The new rental service launches in the US today. International will launch later this year. Software updates for iPods and iTunes forthcoming.
MacHeist (http://www.macrumors.com/c.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fkeynote.macheist.com&t=1200412826) is providing full sponsorship for our MacRumorsLive feed today. Buy their 11 application bundle (http://www.macrumors.com/c.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fkeynote.macheist.com&t=1200412826) for $49 and support MacRumorsLive.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/15/apple-announces-itunes-movie-rentals/)



twoodcc
Jan 15, 2008, 12:40 PM
i wonder if you can rent the HD stuff without an apple tv?

ImNoSuperMan
Jan 15, 2008, 12:41 PM
Good for You. S.




I mean US. For the rest of us other than US, there is only hope.

PlaceofDis
Jan 15, 2008, 12:46 PM
this will actually get me to use the iTS for movies now. good work imo, Apple.

pjarvi
Jan 15, 2008, 12:47 PM
The only thing I didn't like was I didn't see a "Buy" button in the screenshots that were shown. Seems like all these studios are signing on for rental-only.

PlaceofDis
Jan 15, 2008, 12:49 PM
The only thing I didn't like was I didn't see a "Buy" button in the screenshots that were shown. Seems like all these studios are signing on for rental-only.

we'll have to see how it is when the update comes through. might just be rental to test the waters and buy added at a later date. worst case scenario at least.

Slip
Jan 15, 2008, 12:50 PM
God by the time this rolls out here we'll all have forgotten
And oh, the obligatory price rise compared to all of Europe and the US :/
Still, it's here

goroboto
Jan 15, 2008, 12:59 PM
Am I reading this right? The movie will have been in Blockbuster and on Netflix for an entire MONTH before I can access it w/ an Apple TV?

kornyboy
Jan 15, 2008, 12:59 PM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

i wonder if you can rent the HD stuff without an apple tv?

Good question. I wonder as well.

czachorski
Jan 15, 2008, 01:00 PM
i wonder if you can rent the HD stuff without an apple tv?


Me too. Anyone know?

freeny
Jan 15, 2008, 01:03 PM
This is great but limiting to a segment of ipod/iphone users. I watch movies during my half hour commute on the train. It takes me 2 days to watch most movies. 24 hours cripples that option for me :(
Hopefully they will change this in the future...

trevreyno
Jan 15, 2008, 01:05 PM
Well as I expected the US from today the rest of the world who knows when.........?:mad:

ariel
Jan 15, 2008, 01:16 PM
i wish apple wasn't charging so much for the movie rentals to be honest... well should i say the movie companies that is

i can get DVDs at the big red box for $1

i have netflix and get probably 15 movies in a month for $18

why should i pay so much for rentals from apple??

Doctor Q
Jan 15, 2008, 01:16 PM
I was waiting on pins and needles to see if my Apple TV would become obsolete or gain new features with a software update. At last I know! :)

I'll be glad to try out movie rentals. Once Oscar nominations come out, I'll see if any of the nominated movies are available this way.

baleensavage
Jan 15, 2008, 01:16 PM
i wonder if you can rent the HD stuff without an apple tv?

So far it doesnt look like it. If you check out the iTunes page and rentals it makes no mention of HD. The only place on Apple's site that mentions it is on the AppleTV page. If this is the case then that stinks. I'm not buying an AppleTV to rent HD movies from Apple.

Another thing to note on that page:
iTunes on DVD.

Buy select DVDs and you get something extra free: an iTunes Digital Copy. Just pop the DVD into your computer and the iTunes version transfers to your iTunes library, ready to watch or sync to your iPod, iPhone, or Apple TV. Look for “iTunes Digital Copy” on the DVDs you buy, starting with the DVD release of Family Guy: Blue Harvest Special Edition.

Looks like the person who got that Family Guy movie was correct. That is good news.

PlaceofDis
Jan 15, 2008, 01:18 PM
Another thing to note on that page:


Looks like the person who got that Family Guy movie was correct. That is good news.

indeed it is. saves many the hassle of ripping and encoding, which is a huge pain imo.

samh004
Jan 15, 2008, 01:18 PM
I'll be interested to see what "international" really is, and if "international" is just a few select countries in the EU.

tomd89
Jan 15, 2008, 01:19 PM
Hopefully the UK will finally get movie downloads this year!

CANEHDN
Jan 15, 2008, 01:29 PM
Doesn't seem worth it to me. That's expensive. I'd rather go to the Redbox and rent one.

theLimit
Jan 15, 2008, 01:33 PM
Exactly what I expected. The rental arrangement competes with Time Warner and Comcast On-Demand PPV. With a wider variety of content available on iTunes versus the cable companies, I'm one step closer to ditching cable for good.

jemo07
Jan 15, 2008, 01:33 PM
That is all... i can't see the US iTune store front since I am in Spain :mad:

jaw04005
Jan 15, 2008, 01:33 PM
So no HD TV Shows? Just movie rentals? Can I purchase HD movies?

puffnstuff
Jan 15, 2008, 01:34 PM
it would be nice if they had a super cheap monthly plan

britabroad
Jan 15, 2008, 01:34 PM
So let me get this right. I can rent a limited amount of movies 30 days later than everyone else, pay the same or more for it, only be able to watch it for 24 hours and have no DVD extras to enjoy. Wha?

Stampyhead
Jan 15, 2008, 01:37 PM
Can anyone see the rental store yet? I downloaded 7.6, but it is still mysteriously absent.

valypan
Jan 15, 2008, 01:40 PM
Hi,

has anyone seen movie rentals on the iTunes Store? I downloaded the update but can not see the rental option anywhere. Am I missing something?:eek:

boxandrew
Jan 15, 2008, 01:40 PM
Can anyone see the rental store yet? I downloaded 7.6, but it is still mysteriously absent.

I'm having the same problem. It's not going to be much good if no-one can find it. :D

chasingshadows
Jan 15, 2008, 01:42 PM
I'm having the same problem. It's not going to be much good if no-one can find it. :D

I thought I was going crazy becuase I can't find the rental area.

miloblithe
Jan 15, 2008, 01:42 PM
Definitely sticking with NetFlix. Maybe Apple TV 3.0 won't be a flop.

macUser2007
Jan 15, 2008, 01:45 PM
LOL! At $3 for the cheapest 24hr rental, the studios are shooting themselves in the foot. At $5 per HD rental, they are shooting themselves in the head.

And making Apple TV just as worthless as all the other online rental outfits, with the notable exception of Netflix, which for $17 flat fee per month offers a huge selection of delivered to your home DVDs (including HD-DVD and BR), plus 17 hours of actually pretty good quality streamed content.

The only viable model is either a reasonable flat rate subscription, or a much cheaper per movie download. Until the studios get this in their heads, Apple TV is a non-starter.

jettredmont
Jan 15, 2008, 01:46 PM
Am I reading this right? The movie will have been in Blockbuster and on Netflix for an entire MONTH before I can access it w/ an Apple TV?

Wouldn't that make everything, by definition, not a "New Release"?

Where did you see this bit?

motulist
Jan 15, 2008, 01:48 PM
iTunes is available for download now. Install it and report back about it to those of us who can't install it at the moment.

valypan
Jan 15, 2008, 01:49 PM
iTunes is available for download now. Install it and report back about it to those of us who can't install it at the moment.

I have the latest iTunes update, however no sign of movie rentals....

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 01:50 PM
Dumping Netflix after this month. I am currently on the 2 movies a month plan ...and I've run out of crap I want to see. With Apple's rentals I will only need to rent the ones I absolutely want to see.

I would have balked at the idea of 24hr rentals if you had to download the whole movie first and then watch it ...that would take some planning. The fact that you can watch the movie while it's streaming to you makes it perfectly fine with me. It's exactly like pay-per-view.

As long as it's smooth and free of bugs I will be loving my new service :D

mbcracken
Jan 15, 2008, 01:50 PM
do I see at this time. I've loaded 7.6 Why would a movie rental only be available to those with ATV?

zedsdead
Jan 15, 2008, 01:52 PM
Die Hard just popped up at the top of my iTunes Store...but now its not connecting again, so they're in the process of updating it.

Huracan
Jan 15, 2008, 01:53 PM
I think this time Apple is making a mistake. Their video strategy is flawed in my opinion. I believe Netflix is getting it better, at least until we get to DRM free movies perhaps in the future. DRM cripples things so bad that it doesn't seem to make sense to buy video. Apple has finally come to terms with this and is promoting rental. However, what I think works for online video is the subscription style that Netflix is using. No crazy 24 hour limitation, no per movie payment, choose the movie you want to watch and if you don't like it try another one. I'm sorry to say, because I see advantages to the iTunes, AppleTV offer but the movie rental is destined to fail. The sooner Apple realizes it has to be at least as good as Netflix the better chances they'll have. In the meantime I just wish Netflix had a player for Mac. Let's hope they get their act together with Silverlight.

Pros: Good integration with iTunes, AppleTV and other Apple devices. HD content.
Cons: Ridiculously small window to watch the movie (24 hours). 30 days wait after release. Small number of movies available. It seems expensive to me considering this is electronic distribution, compared with Netflix and many other rental services.

Conclusion: Thumbs down. Apple, get your act together. What customers need is more movies and a subscription service. This expensive and restrictive rental scheme is not going to fly.

drewcosten
Jan 15, 2008, 01:55 PM
I'll be interested to see what "international" really is, and if "international" is just a few select countries in the EU.

I really hope Canada is included, and quickly. I'd definitely use this.

ariel
Jan 15, 2008, 01:57 PM
Conclusion: Thumbs down. Apple, get your act together. What customers need is more movies and a subscription service. This expensive and restrictive rental scheme is not going to fly.

I agree that the price is too high, but you're venting against Apple - it isn't Apple, it is the movie studios demanding the high prices... be mad at them!

walnuts
Jan 15, 2008, 01:57 PM
Anyone know if we could rent TV shows? Two bucks a pop gets expensive!

motulist
Jan 15, 2008, 01:58 PM
.
Cons: Ridiculously small window to watch the movie (24 hours).

It's not 24 hours to watch the movie from when you rent it, it's 30 days. It's just that once you start watching the movie, then the 24 hour clock starts ticking. That seem like a completely reasonable system to me.

kpanda
Jan 15, 2008, 01:59 PM
I really hope Canada is included, and quickly. I'd definitely use this.

When was it that the rest of the world was supposed to get movies again? Was it January 2007? or 2006?

All of us outside of the US, as usual, get to sit on the sidelines and watch...

David R
Jan 15, 2008, 01:59 PM
The 30-day after the DVD release wait is what kills this for me. I would have dumped Netflix and gotten an AppleTV instead. I don't get why media companies do this to themselves.

gvegastiger
Jan 15, 2008, 02:00 PM
The definitely need a subscription service. If they had one of those, I'd go buy an Apple TV tomorrow and subscribe and get rid of my blockbuster.

I got a feeling the studios want more competition so they dont want everyone to have the exact same type of service.

This has a 40% chance of succeeding the way I see it. They are offering HD with Dolby 5.1 and you can do it all from the Apple TV. Basically this is a competitve product to On Demand services, but still not as good as a Netflix or Blockbuster.

Stampyhead
Jan 15, 2008, 02:01 PM
LOL! At $3 for the cheapest 24hr rental, the studios are shooting themselves in the foot. At $5 per HD rental, they are shooting themselves in the head.

And making Apple TV just as worthless as all the other online rental outfits, with the notable exception of Netflix, which for $17 flat fee per month offers a huge selection of delivered to your home DVDs (including HD-DVD and BR), plus 17 hours of actually pretty good quality streamed content.

The only viable model is either a reasonable flat rate subscription, or a much cheaper per movie download. Until the studios get this in their heads, Apple TV is a non-starter.

I think this time Apple is making a mistake. Their video strategy is flawed in my opinion ...This expensive and restrictive rental scheme is not going to fly.



I'll be looking forward to watching you and all the other self-proclaimed know-it-all's eat those words when this thing takes off. Remember what they said about the iPod when it first came out...

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 02:02 PM
looks like movie rentals are going live by the end of Feb ...not right now.

drewcosten
Jan 15, 2008, 02:05 PM
When was it that the rest of the world was supposed to get movies again? Was it January 2007? or 2006?

All of us outside of the US, as usual, get to sit on the sidelines and watch...

Which I don't get. Don't they want our money?

Stampyhead
Jan 15, 2008, 02:05 PM
looks like movie rentals are going live by the end of Feb ...not right now.

Where are you getting your information?

trevreyno
Jan 15, 2008, 02:06 PM
Hi,

has anyone seen movie rentals on the iTunes Store? I downloaded the update but can not see the rental option anywhere. Am I missing something?:eek:

At the moment the service is only available in the US.

Unless your in the US it won't be available.

The rest of us outside of the US will just have to wait,just like we are still waiting to be able to buy movies through itunes.:(

czachorski
Jan 15, 2008, 02:08 PM
The 30-day after the DVD release wait is what kills this for me. I would have dumped Netflix and gotten an AppleTV instead. I don't get why media companies do this to themselves.

To give time for DVD sales to happen, without killing that revenue stream. Which is flawed to: cripple the future to protect the past, when the past is a fast-going-extinct-dinosaur.

xwk88
Jan 15, 2008, 02:08 PM
It's not 24 hours to watch the movie from when you rent it, it's 30 days. It's just that once you start watching the movie, then the 24 hour clock starts ticking. That seem like a completely reasonable system to me.

thats because it is how long do you think it'll take to watch a 2 hour movie......
I do agree that compared to netflix its a bit expensive but the are kind of different services you could look at it this way if a movie is already available you could look it up and start watching instantly on your tv and in HD if you wish and not have to wait for a mailed in copy of a DVD people are comparing this to netflix when the should be looking at it as a PPV service like those from cable companies...... not to say its perfect....but nothing is not even netflix

gkarris
Jan 15, 2008, 02:11 PM
I think this time Apple is making a mistake. Their video strategy is flawed in my opinion....

Conclusion: Thumbs down. Apple, get your act together. What customers need is more movies and a subscription service. This expensive and restrictive rental scheme is not going to fly.

NEWSFLASH: It's the STUDIO'S video strategy, NOT Apple's...

fastbite
Jan 15, 2008, 02:12 PM
I HATE the fact that we in Europe have to wait like morons to get the stuff -- Torrents, keep on coming until the morons sort out how to release a flick on 2008!

Huracan
Jan 15, 2008, 02:12 PM
I agree that the price is too high, but you're venting against Apple - it isn't Apple, it is the movie studios demanding the high prices... be mad at them!

You're right. When I set out to write about it I was planning to blame it on the studios. However, I got carried away and blamed it on Apple. Darn it, whether it is Apple or the studios this is still not going to fly :( I still think Netflix has a better video strategy than Apple at this time. Pity because Netflix is still waiting to deliver on a set top box, and Apple already has one. It would be great to have a Netflix online offer through the AppleTV ;)

dAlen
Jan 15, 2008, 02:14 PM
It would appear that iTunes on the computer is for downloads of purchased movies.

It would also appear that iTV is required for movie rentals - not able to be purchased on the mac, although I suppose you could stream it to it.

Again, Im updating iTunes now to see if there is a change in the store to show rentals - and apples website, without watching the clip (slow connection) seems to imply watching your t.v. and itv with the rentals with no real mention of itv and the mac.

As well as the fact that they pointed it out that you do not need the mac for the rentals, just itv. In their mind it seems they messed up by connecting it to the computer.

Now this may be incorrect, you may be able to rent from the computer - but regardless, waiting a month to watch a new release that you can pop down and get from blockbuster and watch as many times in a few days as you want...is better than holding off a full month to watch a movie that you have been waiting for.

Whoo hoo, I get to wait up to 30 days to watch it...but once I do, its basically a one time deal, as I doubt I would watch the same movie twice in a one day period.

Now had they made the new airport/harddrive(time capsule) itv - this would be cool indeed. Yet still to many devices apple. Need to center it, lower the rental prices and at least get them out when dvd is released.

It would seem the movie studios want to make what money they still can from dvds and then plus. Eventually they will charge you by how many minutes of the movie you watch - and then they will put an ad in every 5 seconds for something...and then you will have to pay to watch the movie without ads only...etc. ;)

More corporate greed. Not that apple has to much of a choice working with studios, but what do I know - it seems people say that Netflix offers more flexibility and cheaper prices.

The whole bit about charging a software update for the ipod touch...I felt it coming when right before Steve said that the software update for iphone would be free...well of course, its part of the Leapord operating system...but that doesnt seem to be the case - come on apple.
Oh, that is the way of the future with the new SDKS I suppose...

While we are at it, why not have a real tracking device put in there. GPS.
Dont need any service for that (wi-fi, I can use it anywhere.)
I know, they have partners (Google) that help them make more money.

Its not about cooperation, its about squeezing and making money and offering some almost cool tools that fall a bit short.

This is typical, for now - ;)

Peace

dAlen

Well

goroboto
Jan 15, 2008, 02:16 PM
Wouldn't that make everything, by definition, not a "New Release"?

Where did you see this bit?

Over 1000 movies - available 30 days after the DVD release of the film.

It was in the Keynote and at the top of this thread... what a bummer.

Fezzy
Jan 15, 2008, 02:16 PM
looks like movie rentals are going live by the end of Feb ...not right now.


The Apple Press Release says "Rentals launches today and will offer over 1,000 titles by the end of February" so there should be some rentals available today but not all 1,000 of them.

nicoboss
Jan 15, 2008, 02:19 PM
For this price, I'll keep my Netflix subscription and also stick with my cable company PPV - which has a Huge selection of the most recent movies both HD and regular format for the same price - just a 5 second delay to get it started and I get 5.1 and HD directly.
and if i need it on the go, I'd convert the dvd to divx and copy it to my ipod and go.

I understand that they are not trying to reinvent the wheel here, just make a simple system that works. But an average of $4 a movie just doesn't work for me (just reminds me of the VHS rental at blockbuster a long time ago...)

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 02:20 PM
Where are you getting your information?
MacWorld's News Story

http://www.macworld.com/article/131580/2008/01/itunesmovierentals.html

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 02:21 PM
The Apple Press Release says "Rentals launches today and will offer over 1,000 titles by the end of February" so there should be some rentals available today but not all 1,000 of them.

Ahh ...good! Hope to rent one tonight :D

motulist
Jan 15, 2008, 02:21 PM
Any other changes in iTunes 7.6? Is it any faster to open?

Stampyhead
Jan 15, 2008, 02:24 PM
It would appear that iTunes on the computer is for downloads of purchased movies.

It would also appear that iTV is required for movie rentals - not able to be purchased on the mac, although I suppose you could stream it to it.

Again, Im updating iTunes now to see if there is a change in the store to show rentals - and apples website, without watching the clip (slow connection) seems to imply watching your t.v. and itv with the rentals with no real mention of itv and the mac.

I don't think you're correct in saying that rentals only will work through iTV. Otherwise, how would you put them on your iPod/iPhone if you couldn't download them to your computer? The 1.1.3 iPhone update said it included compatibility with iTunes movie rentals, so we know it's supposed to work on the iPhone. I think they're just a bit slow getting the rental store set up on iTunes.

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 02:25 PM
Stream is up!

http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/f27853y2/event/index.html?internal=fj2l3s9dm

skinnylegs
Jan 15, 2008, 02:26 PM
I'm assuming there will be a separate button for movie rentals? I just updated iTunes and I don't see anything different.

jettredmont
Jan 15, 2008, 02:26 PM
$2.99 as the cheaper option is almost there, but not low enough to really be tempting. Its the kind of thing I might use if I had an :apple:TV sitting around gathering dust, but wouldn't drive me to buy a box for $229.

Selection looks to be a pleasant surprise from what I'd expected. We'll know more once we're able to go in and poke around.

Quality is still, as expected, sub-DVD (640x480), and it seems 5.1 sound only comes if you pay more for the HD version (which requires the :apple:TV).

Will the computer need to phone home when it starts a rental, or will we be able to watch a movie on a plane?

24-hour window still chafes. I often watch movies while working out, but then watching a single movie takes three days generally (1 hour every other day). This works just fine with every other rental model, just not Apple's (or a PPV/VOD model, although in that case generally I can store it on my DVR for several days).

I can't see a fit for this in my life yet, and I tend to rent movies fairly often. As an unrepentant Apple fanboy, I'm wanting to buy an :apple:TV to put in our living room sometime this year, and at that point the equation will likely change (see above), at least for hard-to-find, impulse back-catalogue movies. But until the hardware is paid for and looking for a use ...

FSUSem1noles
Jan 15, 2008, 02:27 PM
Are rentals even availble via computer, I updated to 7.6 and there isn't even a mention of rentals..

I can only purchase movies...

Fezzy
Jan 15, 2008, 02:27 PM
I don't think you're correct in saying that rentals only will work through iTV. Otherwise, how would you put them on your iPod/iPhone if you couldn't download them to your computer? The 1.1.3 iPhone update said it included compatibility with iTunes movie rentals, so we know it's supposed to work on the iPhone. I think they're just a bit slow getting the rental store set up on iTunes.

Yes, I think it is just the High Def versions that are only available on Apple TV. Possibly because the High Def downloads wouldn't be compatible with iPods/iPhone.

Fezzy
Jan 15, 2008, 02:29 PM
Are rentals even availble via computer, I updated to 7.6 and there isn't even a mention of rentals..

I can only purchase movies...

Yes, according to Apple's press release "Users can rent movies for as low as $2.99 and watch them on their Macs or PCs"

macUser2007
Jan 15, 2008, 02:29 PM
I'll be looking forward to watching you and all the other self-proclaimed know-it-all's eat those words when this thing takes off. Remember what they said about the iPod when it first came out...

Yeah, this video thing has been taking off for a year now....

As Carville would say: "It's the PRICE, stupid!"

At $4, it would take 4 movies a month to pay for your 3-at-home Netflix or Blockbuster subscription. At Netflix, I get them delivered the next day. I get full DVD quality for SD, or full HD-DVD/BR quality for titles available in these formats. I get them the day after release. I also get 17 hours of streaming content, all for the same price.

People are stupid, but not THAT stupid....

rimglow
Jan 15, 2008, 02:30 PM
I upgraded iTunes & Quicktime. Nothing in iTunes about Movie Rentals. I do live in the US.

emulator
Jan 15, 2008, 02:30 PM
Bad deal indeed, will only please fanbois.

boxandrew
Jan 15, 2008, 02:32 PM
I don't think you're correct in saying that rentals only will work through iTV. Otherwise, how would you put them on your iPod/iPhone if you couldn't download them to your computer? The 1.1.3 iPhone update said it included compatibility with iTunes movie rentals, so we know it's supposed to work on the iPhone. I think they're just a bit slow getting the rental store set up on iTunes.

I just checked out the movie rental page on Apple's site where they say how much rentals are and what studios are signed up. If you read it carefully, I think it's obvious that you won't need :apple:TV. They talk about watching movies on your computer...

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 02:33 PM
Yes, I think it is just the High Def versions that are only available on Apple TV. Possibly because the High Def downloads wouldn't be compatible with iPods/iPhone.

Anyone have the new front row installed? Maybe the rentals only show up inside front row??

ShavenYak
Jan 15, 2008, 02:34 PM
Yes, I think it is just the High Def versions that are only available on Apple TV. Possibly because the High Def downloads wouldn't be compatible with iPods/iPhone.

But they would be compatible with a Mac running FrontRow attached to an HDTV. Surely Apple's not going to leave that segment out in the cold without HD rentals?

skinnylegs
Jan 15, 2008, 02:35 PM
Anyone have the new front row installed? Maybe the rentals only show up inside front row??Nope.....Front Row looks the same.

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 02:36 PM
Yeah, this video thing has been taking off for a year now....

As Carville would say: "It's the PRICE, stupid!"

At $4, it would take 4 movies a month to pay for your 3-at-home Netflix or Blockbuster subscription. At Netflix, I get them delivered the next day. I get full DVD quality for SD, or full HD-DVD/BR quality for titles available in these formats. I get them the day after release. I also get 17 hours of streaming content, all for the same price.

People are stupid, but not THAT stupid....
Not everyone wants to watch a dozen movies a month ...I currently have the 2 a month netflix plan and I can't wait to dump it for Apple's service. Why? I've run out of crap I want to see. If you only watch one or two movies a month ...and NONE some months ...netflix is a waste of money.

Don't call it a bad service unless you look at it from all angles...

kbmb
Jan 15, 2008, 02:38 PM
As someone with small children....I still hate the 24 hour viewing window. David Pogue explains it nicely:

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/the-27-hour-day/

Still don't understand from the movie studios point of view....WHY? What is so magical about the 24 hour window? Or more importantly, what is wrong with a 36/48/72 hour window (or even a 27 hour window)?

-Kevin

jettredmont
Jan 15, 2008, 02:51 PM
Over 1000 movies - available 30 days after the DVD release of the film.

It was in the Keynote and at the top of this thread... what a bummer.

Yeah, see that now. Thanks.

That really sucks. I can't imagine renting a "new release". If I've waited 30 days after everyone else, I might as well wait a few more weeks and get it 25% cheaper. On the other hand, I can't see myself waiting 30 days after release very often either.

So, it seems the only utility here is in the "library" titles. That's where a whim can take seed and be satisfied. Cost there is $229 to get in the door, and $2.99 each. Of course, if you want 5.1 sound (which, again, I almost always will on most movies) you have to spend $4.99 for the HD version, assuming it exists for the given title.

Sigh. I hate to say Apple screwed up here. As I've said before: them's words that will almost always come back to haunt. But still. I think Apple (and the studios) have pulled meager defeat out of the jaws of stunning victory here.

Again, in dream-world, the model is this:


Releases same day as DVD. Eventually this might end up being the same day as theatrical release. One release date for "home video" is the only model which makes sense.
$1.99 one-day rental, $3.99 one-week rental
Easy and automated "upgrade" options (upgrade expired rental from 1-day to 7-day for $2; upgrade to Unlimited [buy] for difference between rental and purchase price).
DVD "Extras" available for download (buy-only) at small charge (as a unit for each DVD). Charge $2 standard rate, up to $5 for significantly involved bonus disk packages.
Allow burning of bought titles to DVD with auto-play or automatically-generated menus (Play, Chapters, Extras if bought)


The above would rock the home video industry, and still allow significant profit margins for Apple and the Studios (unfortunately, not for WalMart or Best Buy). I would change to a download rental system with the above terms in an instant, and drop Blockbuster.

Unfortunately, what they gave us is priced on par with existing services, loses in convenience and utility comparisons. With Blockbuster TotalAccess I'm getting up to 10-15 movies a month for $17 (some months I don't take advantage of this bandwidth, though). With a $20 budget, I'd get 4 HD movies or 6 SD library titles, with the only tangible benefit of not having to pick what I'm going to watch until a few minutes before it starts. That convenience is not worth cutting my movie-watch rate in half (or more than doubling my movie-watching budget)!

To break into this industry they need shock and awe. They gave us ho-hum.

KingYaba
Jan 15, 2008, 02:53 PM
I am voting negative because I want HD on my iTunes not just "DVD quality." I do not want to buy a freakin' AppleTV for HD rentals.

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 02:55 PM
I am voting negative because I want HD on my iTunes not just "DVD quality." I do not want to buy a freakin' AppleTV for HD rentals.

Where did you see that you won't be able to get the HD version on your Mac?

Stampyhead
Jan 15, 2008, 02:59 PM
Not everyone wants to watch a dozen movies a month ...I currently have the 2 a month netflix plan and I can't wait to dump it for Apple's service. Why? I've run out of crap I want to see. If you only watch one or two movies a month ...and NONE some months ...netflix is a waste of money.

Don't call it a bad service unless you look at it from all angles...

Exactly, same with me. I dumped Netflix years ago because I only watch movies every once in a while.

johnnybluejeans
Jan 15, 2008, 03:14 PM
Where did you see that you won't be able to get the HD version on your Mac?

The only place HD rentals is mentioned (so far) is on the AppleTV section of Apple's website. If you look at Apple's info for iTunes rentals they only mention the standard def options of $2.99 & $3.99...

So it is still speculation at this point, but with some reasoning to back it up.

jettredmont
Jan 15, 2008, 03:14 PM
Not everyone wants to watch a dozen movies a month ...I currently have the 2 a month netflix plan and I can't wait to dump it for Apple's service. Why? I've run out of crap I want to see. If you only watch one or two movies a month ...and NONE some months ...netflix is a waste of money.

Don't call it a bad service unless you look at it from all angles...

If you average just over one movie a month (meaning, there are more months when you watch 2 movies than there are when you watch 0 movies), then Netflix is the exact same price ($4.99/month) as Apple's low-grade HD option.

Netflix Pros:

You can take as long to watch a movie as you need, even if that is a few months. It doesn't evaporate 24 hours after you start watching it.
True DVD quality, not "DVD Quality". 720x480 resolution. 5.1 surround sound. Apple's SD offers less resolution and sound quality for less money ($1-2 savings per month), and Apple's HD offers slightly better resolution and same sound quality for the same price. While most DVD are designed to avoid compression artifacts (because the space is there and paid for if you use it or not), experience with download services shows a tendency for over-compression to the point of highly-degraded video quality. It would not be surprising to see the HD picture with less fidelity than the DVD picture. But, that remains to be seen.
You probably already own a DVD player. No $229 start-up fee.
90,000 movies in the library to choose from, today. "1,000"? Pshaw!
Immediate availability of new DVD releases. No 30-day penalty box for your movies.
Queue management, allowing easy maintenance of "wish lists" for movies.


:apple:TV Pros:

You can get a movie started in minute, instead of waiting for the next day's mail
Net app instead of web page interface for finding movies.


Anything I missed?

Unless your rental rate is below one movie per month, Netflix has a plan which works better than renting, monetarily. Of course, they hope the low-end plan will spark a desire to watch more than 2 movies per month and you'll move up in their rate structure (the next plan is almost twice as expensive at $8.99), but Apple would love the same thing. Apple's service quickly stops making sense when you watch multiple movies (or TV shows on DVD) per month.

ladeer
Jan 15, 2008, 03:21 PM
If you average just over one movie a month (meaning, there are more months when you watch 2 movies than there are when you watch 0 movies), then Netflix is the exact same price ($4.99/month) as Apple's low-grade HD option.

Netflix Pros:

You can take as long to watch a movie as you need, even if that is a few months. It doesn't evaporate 24 hours after you start watching it.
True DVD quality, not "DVD Quality". 720x480 resolution. 5.1 surround sound. Apple's SD offers less resolution and sound quality for less money ($1-2 savings per month), and Apple's HD offers slightly better resolution and same sound quality for the same price. While most DVD are designed to avoid compression artifacts (because the space is there and paid for if you use it or not), experience with download services shows a tendency for over-compression to the point of highly-degraded video quality. It would not be surprising to see the HD picture with less fidelity than the DVD picture. But, that remains to be seen.
You probably already own a DVD player. No $229 start-up fee.
90,000 movies in the library to choose from, today. "1,000"? Pshaw!
Immediate availability of new DVD releases. No 30-day penalty box for your movies.
Queue management, allowing easy maintenance of "wish lists" for movies.


:apple:TV Pros:

You can get a movie started in minute, instead of waiting for the next day's mail
Net app instead of web page interface for finding movies.


Anything I missed?

Unless your rental rate is below one movie per month, Netflix has a plan which works better than renting, monetarily. Of course, they hope the low-end plan will spark a desire to watch more than 2 movies per month and you'll move up in their rate structure (the next plan is almost twice as expensive at $8.99), but Apple would love the same thing. Apple's service quickly stops making sense when you watch multiple movies (or TV shows on DVD) per month.

the ability to watch on ipod/iphone is the only benefit i care about and the one benefit that locks me to use itune.

badmac78
Jan 15, 2008, 03:24 PM
so. . . this is my first post on here . . . :apple: TV
I get . .
1. From a software update (not hardware) I can now watch HD + Dolby . . .
2. I can rent movies now, directly from the box . . (hooray for american lethargy!!)

I don't get . . .
1. PVR . . .
2. HD/Cable Tuner

I currently have Tivo Service [$17/mo] (which I would love to get rid of) and Netflix [$10/mo or 1 movie-at-a-time]

I just switched to the comcast HD/PVR box . . . so I can get rid of Tivo (SWEET!)

based on my watching patterns I really can only get to about 1 to 2 movies a month . . . after doing my best to keep up with my 1-2 tv shows.

All of the movies I have in my queue are either older movies that I just didn't have time to go see at the theatre or indie/foreign films that I know will never show up on something like iTunes (big Almadovar fan).

BUT. . . . netflix does not have an "instant download feature for macs. . . bad netflix!!

If I need a see a movie so bad that I just can't wait . . . I'll spend the $10 to see the movie in all it's "stadium seeting" glory.

Do I buy the :apple:TV . . . soon as my checkbook says it's feasible. . . one will be sitting in my living room.

As far as product . . .
I think apple got it right in being able to add features like HD/Dolby through a software makes the product worth paying for in the long run. So what else can they add with a software update????

As far as the pricing . . .
$10 [$12 if you're in NYC] = 1 theatre movie = 2 iTunes HD Rentals = Unlimited Netflix Rentals . . .
Studio's are all "morter" no real "click" . . .
netflix is all "click" and no "morter" . . .
:apple: sits right in the middle . . . so from a cost structure standpoint . . . after haggling [with studios] over a "soon to be abolished" business model . . . the pricing ain't that bad . . .

The movie studios definitely flexed their muscles [with the music contracts with itunes] just before this Macworld rentals release because they [studios] know that this is their last potential to salvage their existing [razor blade] business model. The studios should read the Harvard Business Case on Kodak . . . their resistance to digital photography cost them the entire market as new competitors came along

Alrescha
Jan 15, 2008, 03:24 PM
Where did you see that you won't be able to get the HD version on your Mac?

Software Update says:

"Enjoy rented movies in sizes up to 720p HD with surround sound on your Apple TV and sizes up to DVD-quality on your computer."


Also, unless they have enhanced Quicktime to do Dolby Digital they do not have a way to get 5.1 out of the computer.

A.

mistasinasta
Jan 15, 2008, 03:33 PM
Can anyone see the rental store yet? I downloaded 7.6, but it is still mysteriously absent.

Same here. I see NO mention whatsoever of renting movies in iTunes 7.6. If it's there, it's too hard to find. What's the deal Mr. J? :confused:

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 03:34 PM
If you average just over one movie a month (meaning, there are more months when you watch 2 movies than there are when you watch 0 movies), then Netflix is the exact same price ($4.99/month) as Apple's low-grade HD option.

Netflix Pros:

You can take as long to watch a movie as you need, even if that is a few months. It doesn't evaporate 24 hours after you start watching it.
True DVD quality, not "DVD Quality". 720x480 resolution. 5.1 surround sound. Apple's SD offers less resolution and sound quality for less money ($1-2 savings per month), and Apple's HD offers slightly better resolution and same sound quality for the same price. While most DVD are designed to avoid compression artifacts (because the space is there and paid for if you use it or not), experience with download services shows a tendency for over-compression to the point of highly-degraded video quality. It would not be surprising to see the HD picture with less fidelity than the DVD picture. But, that remains to be seen.
You probably already own a DVD player. No $229 start-up fee.
90,000 movies in the library to choose from, today. "1,000"? Pshaw!
Immediate availability of new DVD releases. No 30-day penalty box for your movies.
Queue management, allowing easy maintenance of "wish lists" for movies.


:apple:TV Pros:

You can get a movie started in minute, instead of waiting for the next day's mail
Net app instead of web page interface for finding movies.


Anything I missed?

Unless your rental rate is below one movie per month, Netflix has a plan which works better than renting, monetarily. Of course, they hope the low-end plan will spark a desire to watch more than 2 movies per month and you'll move up in their rate structure (the next plan is almost twice as expensive at $8.99), but Apple would love the same thing. Apple's service quickly stops making sense when you watch multiple movies (or TV shows on DVD) per month.

Counter Netflix Pro.
1. Sure, you can take as long as you want to watch a movie from netflix ...but why does that matter with the iTunes? You don't have to put them in a queue and have them shipped to you ...you simply sit down when you feel like it and hit play.
2. The quality of the iTunes movies are very good. No, they aren't 6000kbps ...but they aren't full of artifacts either. Half the time I end up ripping the DVDs i get from netflix because I don't have time to watch them within the month anyway. I get compression either way :P
3. I don't own an AppleTV ..I may NEVER own an AppleTV. My 24" iMac is in my living room ..I watch the content on it.
4. Immediate availability to new releases is definitely a pro ..but then again, I can just go down to my local video store if I want to see it that bad. Chances are I would have already watched it in the movie theatre anyway...
5. They may have 90,000 movies ...but I've run out of old things I want to see!
6. there is a 30-day penalty at netflix as well. If you don't return the movie you don't get another one shipped to you
7. Queue management is a plus as well ..although when you have run out of things to watch ...your queue is pretty baron anyway.

Those are reasons I will be dumping netflix next month (or at least putting it on hold) ...that, and those times when a friend comes over and you start talking about a movie and you want to watch it right then ...netflix can't come through on that one unless it's in their watch now section (highly unlikely)

/dev/toaster
Jan 15, 2008, 03:42 PM
$4.99 for HD rentals is fine, I was worried it was going to be more. Lets face it, I generally don't enjoy the movie theaters anymore. Besides the usual rude people, young kids screaming and messy sticky floors ... its down right expensive. There are tons of movies coming out that I want to see, but have no interest in purchasing. I would much rather enjoy them in the comfort of my own home, where I can drink a beer and smoke some bud if I want. :D

I would rather use iTunes because I can watch it where I want. I can't tell you how many times I would fall a sleep in the last 10 minutes of a movie. I get home late that night only to find out the movie expired already. It would be nice to finish watching it on my iPhone or what ever. (Although, I don't know if it would really work)

Not to mention, I would rather be billed now for it when I can afford it then the end of the month when the cable bill comes in. I hate that sticker shock of, oh crap we rented 10 movies this month !?

$2.99 for SD rentals is fine. I don't travel as much as I used to, and man it would be much nicer to not have to carry movies with me for week long business trips.

Anyway, gonna rent an HD movie tonight to check it out.

chr1s60
Jan 15, 2008, 03:45 PM
The 24 hour limit is stupid, but probably what it took to get all the studios. I would rather have a 5 day rental with only one full viewing instead of the 30 days and 24 hours. I think the 24 hours is going to lose a lot of potential renters.

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 03:46 PM
The 24 hour limit is stupid, but probably what it took to get all the studios. I would rather have a 5 day rental with only one full viewing instead of the 30 days and 24 hours. I think the 24 hours is going to lose a lot of potential renters.
Seriously? I can't remember the last time I sat down to watch a movie and decided half-way through that I didn't want to finish it right then. I think you people are weird :p

chr1s60
Jan 15, 2008, 03:52 PM
Seriously? I can't remember the last time I sat down to watch a movie and decided half-way through that I didn't want to finish it right then. I think you people are weird :p

My point is that I can drive a block to BlockBuster and get a movie for $5 or whatever they are charging, have it for a week, and watch it as many times as I want. With the Apple plan even if you accidentally start the movie, you then must watch the rest of the movie within 24 hours. If you accidentally hit play and are extremely busy on that day, you just wasted a few dollars for a movie you won't get to watch. There is also the many small emergencies that can go wrong and keep you from watching the movie within 24 hours after starting. The right thing to do would be a shorter amount of time you get to have the movie, but no time limit once a movie has been started.

dmelgar
Jan 15, 2008, 03:54 PM
The 24 hour limit is stupid, but probably what it took to get all the studios. I would rather have a 5 day rental with only one full viewing instead of the 30 days and 24 hours. I think the 24 hours is going to lose a lot of potential renters.

The rumor mill had been reporting that this was the sticking issue with Jobs. He wanted to remove the 30 day delay, but apparently none of the studios would sign up, not even Disney. So he had to give in or delay rentals for years more while the studios would give better deals to others like the music industry is giving favorable deals to Amazon.

Jobs has had to admit defeat and compromise with the studios at the risk of offering a product that won't sell well. With the entertainment industry... you can lead them to water but you can't make them drink.

jettredmont
Jan 15, 2008, 03:58 PM
Counter Netflix Pro.
1. Sure, you can take as long as you want to watch a movie from netflix ...but why does that matter with the iTunes? You don't have to put them in a queue and have them shipped to you ...you simply sit down when you feel like it and hit play.


It's been talked about many times. Say you have kids and a life and can't watch an entire movie in one sitting. Say something comes up in the middle of a movie and you have to pause it until the next night. Say you only have small windows to watch movies in.

I'd much rather sit down and watch a whole movie straight through every time, and by and large I do. But, a few times a month at least, I want to watch a movie and don't have the time available to watch it right then, so I watch half one day and half the next day or the day after. Just last night I watched the first half of a movie while working out, and I won't get to the second half of it until tomorrow night.

Ask yourself this: aside from the above scenarios and the tendency for people to double-rent movies when this happens, what is in it for the studios to put this 24-hour limit on their movies? Before you claim that the above is so rare as to not matter, consider this: it happens enough that studios are willing to endure bad publicity so they can make the few extra rental fees off customers.


2. The quality of the iTunes movies are very good. No, they aren't 6000kbps ...but they aren't full of artifacts either. Half the time I end up ripping the DVDs i get from netflix because I don't have time to watch them within the month anyway. I get compression either way :P


I'd have to disagree with you here. I see massive compression artifacts in TV shows I've bought from iTunes, especially in the dark regions. If you want to rip a movie without compression artifacts, you just rip it at a higher bit rate! Granted, you can't "undo" the damage of the original compression, but you certainly don't need to end up with a worse result!


3. I don't own an AppleTV ..I may NEVER own an AppleTV. My 24" iMac is in my living room ..I watch the content on it.


And you won't be getting HD or 5.1 surround out of it either. And you're a distinct minority, I'd wager. But, true. You saved $229. The general consumer will not.


4. Immediate availability to new releases is definitely a pro ..but then again, I can just go down to my local video store if I want to see it that bad. Chances are I would have already watched it in the movie theatre anyway...
5. They may have 90,000 movies ...but I've run out of old things I want to see!


These two don't make sense together. If you watch most movies in the theater, then you don't have "new things" to see either.


6. there is a 30-day penalty at netflix as well. If you don't return the movie you don't get another one shipped to you


If you have a movie from Netflix and decide you want a different one, you return that movie and get the new one, a penalty of approximately 2-3 days (depending on where you live).

Again, this goes to the spontaneity aspect, which is the main :apple:TV Pro.


7. Queue management is a plus as well ..although when you have run out of things to watch ...your queue is pretty baron anyway.

Those are reasons I will be dumping netflix next month (or at least putting it on hold) ...that, and those times when a friend comes over and you start talking about a movie and you want to watch it right then ...netflix can't come through on that one unless it's in their watch now section (highly unlikely)

As I said, there are Pros for :apple:TV. Being able to think of a movie and watch it within minutes (assuming it is available) is a major plus. It sounds like that outweighs the Pros for Netflix in your case.

mozmac
Jan 15, 2008, 04:10 PM
Am I reading this right? The movie will have been in Blockbuster and on Netflix for an entire MONTH before I can access it w/ an Apple TV?

That's where I think the rip-off is. How can you call it a new release after 30 days? And....charge $3.99 for it?! I'll go to RedBox and grab it for a dollar the day it comes out. If I have to wait 30 days, it better be cheaper.

gonnabuyamac
Jan 15, 2008, 04:14 PM
are rentals available for anyone yet? i've been checking, and updated iTunes - but i still don't see anything

mokeyjoe
Jan 15, 2008, 04:17 PM
Brilliant news. Unless XBox live gets it's act together I'll seriously consider an Apple TV.

In the meantime it'll be nice to be able to rent things on my laptop and ipod. At least, whenever the hell it releases in the UK. If it's as poor as the TV show selection then it won't be worth bothering with. I'm an optimist though!

It's services like these which mean Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will never enjoy the success of DVD.

spiggott
Jan 15, 2008, 04:18 PM
That's where I think the rip-off is. How can you call it a new release after 30 days? And....charge $3.99 for it?! I'll go to RedBox and grab it for a dollar the day it comes out. If I have to wait 30 days, it better be cheaper.

I have to agree. This is what makes RedBox the clear winner in the whole movie rental business if you're lucky enough to have them in your area. Rent it online. Pick it up on the way home from work. $1 a day for up to 25 days. If you keep it more than 25 days you own it for $25.

w00master
Jan 15, 2008, 04:18 PM
Where did you see that you won't be able to get the HD version on your Mac?

It's been confirmed. No HD Movies without AppleTV, check out Gruber's analysis of the *updated* iTunes Terms of Service:

"(aa) Movies are viewable only on your Mac or Windows computer (using iTunes 7.6 or later), iPhone, video-enabled iPod (iPod touch, iPod nano (3rd generation), or iPod classic), or on TVs using your Apple TV. Movies in high definition resolution (HD) are viewable only on TVs using your Apple TV and must be downloaded directly to your Apple TV. Movies are viewable only on one device at a time."

http://daringfireball.net/2008/01/itunes_movie_rental_tos

Man, that does suck.

w00master

Tofaha
Jan 15, 2008, 04:24 PM
i see "top movie rentals" but i dont see where i can actually rent :o

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 04:29 PM
It's been talked about many times. Say you have kids and a life and can't watch an entire movie in one sitting.

These two don't make sense together. If you watch most movies in the theater, then you don't have "new things" to see either.

I DO have kids :) ...and I watch movies after they go to bed. If there was some sort of emergency that caused me to miss my 24hr window ...$3-$4 isn't going to break the bank for me.

I only see one or two movies in the theatre a year ...my comment above was simply to illustrate that I don't really care that they are going to be out a month later than the DVD. That's where I'll give some business back to the brick-n-mortar stores if I need it then.

Sure, it would be great if the rentals lasted for 5 days. But 1 day isn't going to drive me away from the service ...I guess the execs figure if you had 5 days you might call friends over within the next day or so to re-watch the movie with you. :rolleyes:

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 04:31 PM
It's been confirmed. No HD Movies without AppleTV, check out Gruber's analysis of the *updated* iTunes Terms of Service:

"(aa) Movies are viewable only on your Mac or Windows computer (using iTunes 7.6 or later), iPhone, video-enabled iPod (iPod touch, iPod nano (3rd generation), or iPod classic), or on TVs using your Apple TV. Movies in high definition resolution (HD) are viewable only on TVs using your Apple TV and must be downloaded directly to your Apple TV. Movies are viewable only on one device at a time."

http://daringfireball.net/2008/01/itunes_movie_rental_tos

Man, that does suck.

w00master

BOO!! I hope this is because they don't want the strain of all the HD downloads on their network and not because they just want to push AppleTVs. Bah humbug!

swingerofbirch
Jan 15, 2008, 04:37 PM
I would imagine that the reason you can't DL movies in HD to a Mac is that they wouldn't work with iPod/iPhones. Apple probably thinks it would confuse the consumer to have some videos on iTunes that could transfer to their iPod/iPhone and others that couldn't. Unfortunately, this is going to slow the adoption and demand for HD. Apple needs a technology that quickly makes HD movies palatable to an iPhone/iPod. Of course you could make a technology on the iPhone/iPod that allowed it to render the HD in 640X480, but then you're wasting valuable disc space on the device.

bilbo--baggins
Jan 15, 2008, 04:37 PM
Yawn.

Nothing in the UK still...

Cowinacape
Jan 15, 2008, 04:47 PM
God by the time this rolls out here we'll all have forgotten
And oh, the obligatory price rise compared to all of Europe and the US :/
Still, it's here

Not to worry, your is not the only country screwed over in this deal. I don't see anything for Canada either. Nice work Apple! Between this and the 8800 fiasco (so far at least) you are batting 1000!! :mad:

BritinNC
Jan 15, 2008, 04:48 PM
Having read through a couple of the posts here about AppleTV vs Netflix I would suggest that I will probably take a hybrid approach.

I currently have the 4 at a time plan with Netflix and have had this for some time. I basically use it during the summer and other periods when there is basically nothing new on TV. When I use it I find that 4 at a time is not enough and frequently don't have anything I want to watch available at home because they are all in transit to or from Netflix (this particularly occurs if dvds are returned around the weekend or holidays). Some months I never watch anything from Netflix.

I agree with the Pogue comment about 27 hour rentals. People who don't experience this problem probably don't have kids or are students. As much as I hate it I often have to watch things over multiple nights in a 27 hour period. I also often watch stuff on my iPhone while I'm exercising (especially things my wife isn't interested in and I don't have a chance to watch at any other time). For that I have to transfer the DVD to the iPhone and I delete it after watching it (don't see the point in wasting hard drive space for something I'm never going to watch again). The only movies I consider buying are for the kids who seem to enjoy watching them endlessly.

So having said all that I think my solution is a hybrid. Downgrade my Netflix to 2 at a time and use the savings to rent the occasional iTunes movie when I'm out of options and need something to watch. Right now, neither model works perfectly for me, but I think a judicious use of both will be just the ticket!

JayLenochiniMac
Jan 15, 2008, 04:48 PM
Will English subtitles or closed-captioning be available for the iTunes rentals?

w00master
Jan 15, 2008, 04:49 PM
I would imagine that the reason you can't DL movies in HD to a Mac is that they wouldn't work with iPod/iPhones. Apple probably thinks it would confuse the consumer to have some videos on iTunes that could transfer to their iPod/iPhone and others that couldn't. Unfortunately, this is going to slow the adoption and demand for HD. Apple needs a technology that quickly makes HD movies palatable to an iPhone/iPod. Of course you could make a technology on the iPhone/iPod that allowed it to render the HD in 640X480, but then you're wasting valuable disc space on the device.

Perhaps, but lets be honest here, the real reason really is to push AppleTV. I don't necessarily blame Apple for that (they are a business after all), but with Apple selling 30" displays, people using their Mac Mini's as a HTPC, it really sucks for them.

However, those peeps probably compose a very small segment of the Mac market. Still, it sucks.

w00master

czachorski
Jan 15, 2008, 04:53 PM
It's been confirmed. No HD Movies without AppleTV, check out Gruber's analysis of the *updated* iTunes Terms of Service:

"(aa) Movies are viewable only on your Mac or Windows computer (using iTunes 7.6 or later), iPhone, video-enabled iPod (iPod touch, iPod nano (3rd generation), or iPod classic), or on TVs using your Apple TV. Movies in high definition resolution (HD) are viewable only on TVs using your Apple TV and must be downloaded directly to your Apple TV. Movies are viewable only on one device at a time."

http://daringfireball.net/2008/01/itunes_movie_rental_tos

Man, that does suck.

w00master

Absolute and total BS. Oh well - it's off to PPV from cable or other solutions for me. I can't believe they would leave front row or users of their mini-DVI ports to TV out in the cold.

pulazzo
Jan 15, 2008, 05:02 PM
I would imagine that the reason you can't DL movies in HD to a Mac is that they wouldn't work with iPod/iPhones. Apple probably thinks it would confuse the consumer to have some videos on iTunes that could transfer to their iPod/iPhone and others that couldn't. Unfortunately, this is going to slow the adoption and demand for HD. Apple needs a technology that quickly makes HD movies palatable to an iPhone/iPod. Of course you could make a technology on the iPhone/iPod that allowed it to render the HD in 640X480, but then you're wasting valuable disc space on the device.

I think the real reason is lack of HDCP. The Apple TV has HDMI but none of their computers do. It's kinda like how Vista will downgrade video if it doesn't go across a secure channel. Apple won't even sell it to you, which I guess is better than selling it to you and then downgrading it, but it's still pretty lame. Not their fault probably but definitely lame.

I don't even own a TV. Just a MacBook Pro at 1920x1200 connected to an external display. Both can do 1080p. Oh well...

Astro8973
Jan 15, 2008, 05:12 PM
so will fox also be selling movies for purchase as well, or are these movies just available for rental?

confirmed
Jan 15, 2008, 05:14 PM
I think the real reason is lack of HDCP. The Apple TV has HDMI but none of their computers do. It's kinda like how Vista will downgrade video if it doesn't go across a secure channel. Apple won't even sell it to you, which I guess is better than selling it to you and then downgrading it, but it's still pretty lame. Not their fault probably but definitely lame.

I don't even own a TV. Just a MacBook Pro at 1920x1200 connected to an external display. Both can do 1080p. Oh well...

but at least when Vista downgrades the video, you can view it on your computer. currently, i can choose to buy one version, which i can watch on my computer, ipod, iphone, or appletv. or i can spend a dollar more and watch it only on my appletv. can't we at least get the lower res version downloaded along with the HD version? i'm slightly considering buying an AppleTV just for HD rentals, but not if i can't also use my iPhone with those same rentals.

peestandingup
Jan 15, 2008, 05:21 PM
Uhg, this kinda sucks. Basically, Apple is using the old worn out Blockbuster model of renting movies with overpriced single/keep for 24 hours rules, but just in digital form. Yes, the same Blockbuster thats going bankrupt & getting their asses handed to them by Netflix's rental model & then reluctantly started using the same model to rent movies.

But actually this is worse because you have to use a proprietary device (AppleTV) to enjoy them on your TV. And there are no TV shows, just movies. No thanks.

ladeer
Jan 15, 2008, 05:38 PM
where is this rental thing??? i updated all of my devices and still not seeing anywhere to rent! i want to access the rental service! i want to rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! help me!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Qubits
Jan 15, 2008, 05:40 PM
Whats up? I really wanted to download a rental and watch it on my iPod Touch tonight. As far as I can see there is no rental section on iTunes.

1. Has anyone been able to rent a movie today for either the ATV, iPhone, Touch or a Mac?

2. Is this like when I tell my boss I will have the project done Today! -- meaning I will email it to him at 11:59 PM ?

As far as the comparison to NetFlix, how much easier is it to click, download and watch within 10 to 15 minutes - rather than Que a movie online at NetFlix, wait a week or more to see the movie arrive, not the right day so it sits. Then eventually the family comes together to watch a movie.

NetFlix = Movie/interruptus .

It is much more spontaneous to use ATV. We all know spontaneous is sexy!

GravityEyes
Jan 15, 2008, 05:50 PM
Yeah - what i thought was brilliant 4 hours ago, is now rubbish.

I have had a Mini as part of my home entertainment center since they released the Intel version.

This sucks ... I want an option for HD content. F**kers ... I need another box?

Oh my .... well, I have a feeling this is the studios fault - the same bastards who made my HD-DVD player obsolete a few days ago.

Ok - I raise my middle finger in revolt! I have an answer to this conundrum ... BitTorrent. Screw 'em.

Detlev
Jan 15, 2008, 05:58 PM
The iTunes webpage shows the Transformers movie poster as a potential rentable movie. Searching the iTunes store does not return a result for said movie. Also, there is no information in the Help menu or Preferences the specifically say rent. I assume there will be another update or there is a glitch in the update system. This afternoon there were warning windows popping up here saying the connection to the update servers had failures.


2. Is this like when I tell my boss I will have the project done Today! -- meaning I will email it to him at 11:59 PM ?
Ha, I'm not the only one who does it! She'll not hear the end of this one.

rstansby
Jan 15, 2008, 05:58 PM
If you average just over one movie a month (meaning, there are more months when you watch 2 movies than there are when you watch 0 movies), then Netflix is the exact same price ($4.99/month) as Apple's low-grade HD option.

Netflix Pros:

You can take as long to watch a movie as you need, even if that is a few months. It doesn't evaporate 24 hours after you start watching it.

If you take two months to watch it you are effectively paying for it twice in your comparison.

:apple:TV Pros:
[LIST=1]
You can get a movie started in minute, instead of waiting for the next day's mail
Net app instead of web page interface for finding movies.


Anything I missed?

Good luck getting a movie from Netflix 1 day after you ordered it, especially if you have to return another movie. Unless you leave your queue empty you will have to wait 3 days for a movie after deciding to add it to your queue.
Also with AppleTV you don't have to deal with scratched disks. If you rent kids movies you know how common this problem is.

bsheridan
Jan 15, 2008, 06:04 PM
If they are rentals then what happens when I put it on my ipod?

Does it get wiped off next time I plug my ipod into itunes?

Coz if thats the case, all I do is rent movie, put on ipod, then on another mac/pc with ipod rip installed just copy it over to the library no?

Detlev
Jan 15, 2008, 06:06 PM
Slightly off topic here but all you who claim to get Netflix movies the next day, what are these older movies? I've never received a new release the day of release. I've been on a waiting lists for several weeks for some new titles. Is there a trick?

diamond.g
Jan 15, 2008, 06:13 PM
Slightly off topic here but all you who claim to get Netflix movies the next day, what are these older movies? I've never received a new release the day of release. I've been on a waiting lists for several weeks for some new titles. Is there a trick?Yeah, the trick is move close to either Richmond,VA or some place in California. That is where at least my in-laws movies come from. They can send back a movie and have a new one the next night.

Glial
Jan 15, 2008, 06:15 PM
If they are rentals then what happens when I put it on my ipod?

Does it get wiped off next time I plug my ipod into itunes?

Coz if thats the case, all I do is rent movie, put on ipod, then on another mac/pc with ipod rip installed just copy it over to the library no?

Yeah, I'm sure they never thought of that one...

skiwhitman
Jan 15, 2008, 06:16 PM
Am I reading this right? The movie will have been in Blockbuster and on Netflix for an entire MONTH before I can access it w/ an Apple TV?

This doesn't bother me too much. I am not usually chomping-at-the-bit to rent a movie when it first comes out. Plus, most movies are released on DVD on Tuesday's. I usually wait until the weekend to watch them and can wait the extra month. If I have to see it, I'll go and buy it. But that's rarely the case.

I'm very happy with Apple making the upgrade free to ATV users! I was sure that I was going to have to buy the ATV2!!! Kudos, Apple!

TechnoPagan
Jan 15, 2008, 06:16 PM
OT but

If I return a DVD today (Tuesday), it'll arrive at Netflix tomorrow (Wednesday). They'll send out the next one in my queue tomorrow (Wednesday), and I'll receive it on Thursday. Of course, I live in the same city as a distribution center. And a major post office.

The trick is to constantly have movies coming in and out--kinda like juggling. Don't stay still.

rstansby
Jan 15, 2008, 06:21 PM
Yeah, I'm sure they never thought of that one...

Well that same process can be used to transfer songs directly from an iPod to a computer it isn't paired with. Apple knows it can be done but hasn't prevented it.

gonnabuyamac
Jan 15, 2008, 06:26 PM
where is this rental thing??? i updated all of my devices and still not seeing anywhere to rent! i want to access the rental service! i want to rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! help me!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

the rental service isn't up for me yet either.

zoozx
Jan 15, 2008, 06:28 PM
24 hrs to watch is totally Ridiculous!
3 days min would be questionable and 5 days should be standard.
Apple needs to change this.

skiwhitman
Jan 15, 2008, 06:28 PM
Not everyone wants to watch a dozen movies a month ...I currently have the 2 a month netflix plan and I can't wait to dump it for Apple's service. Why? I've run out of crap I want to see. If you only watch one or two movies a month ...and NONE some months ...netflix is a waste of money.

Don't call it a bad service unless you look at it from all angles...

Hear hear!!!! EXACTLY!

rstansby
Jan 15, 2008, 06:29 PM
People have mentioned the fact that you have to wait 30 days before movies are available. This is a downside of Apple rentals, when you need a movie early you can still go to blockbuster. Using AppleTV does not prevent you from renting or buying DVDs.

The flip side is that sometimes you hear about an older movie and want to watch it immediately. Apple will now allow you to download it and watch it now. Using Blockbuster or Netflix doesn't prevent you from renting from Apple on occasion.

Life isn't always black and white. Anyone can use a hybrid of Netflix, Blockbuster and Apple rentals.

will99
Jan 15, 2008, 06:29 PM
Twenty-four hour movie rental? No thanks. I'll download an illegal copy and watch it when its convenient for me, and not try and rush and watch it on Apple's timeline. Give me 48-hours and that is manageable and I might pay to do that, but 24-hours isn't feasible with work, kids, life, etc.

skiwhitman
Jan 15, 2008, 06:32 PM
Yeah, see that now. Thanks.

That really sucks. I can't imagine renting a "new release". If I've waited 30 days after everyone else, I might as well wait a few more weeks and get it 25% cheaper. On the other hand, I can't see myself waiting 30 days after release very often either.

So, it seems the only utility here is in the "library" titles. That's where a whim can take seed and be satisfied. Cost there is $229 to get in the door, and $2.99 each. Of course, if you want 5.1 sound (which, again, I almost always will on most movies) you have to spend $4.99 for the HD version, assuming it exists for the given title.

Sigh. I hate to say Apple screwed up here. As I've said before: them's words that will almost always come back to haunt. But still. I think Apple (and the studios) have pulled meager defeat out of the jaws of stunning victory here.

Again, in dream-world, the model is this:


Releases same day as DVD. Eventually this might end up being the same day as theatrical release. One release date for "home video" is the only model which makes sense.
$1.99 one-day rental, $3.99 one-week rental
Easy and automated "upgrade" options (upgrade expired rental from 1-day to 7-day for $2; upgrade to Unlimited [buy] for difference between rental and purchase price).
DVD "Extras" available for download (buy-only) at small charge (as a unit for each DVD). Charge $2 standard rate, up to $5 for significantly involved bonus disk packages.
Allow burning of bought titles to DVD with auto-play or automatically-generated menus (Play, Chapters, Extras if bought)


The above would rock the home video industry, and still allow significant profit margins for Apple and the Studios (unfortunately, not for WalMart or Best Buy). I would change to a download rental system with the above terms in an instant, and drop Blockbuster.

Unfortunately, what they gave us is priced on par with existing services, loses in convenience and utility comparisons. With Blockbuster TotalAccess I'm getting up to 10-15 movies a month for $17 (some months I don't take advantage of this bandwidth, though). With a $20 budget, I'd get 4 HD movies or 6 SD library titles, with the only tangible benefit of not having to pick what I'm going to watch until a few minutes before it starts. That convenience is not worth cutting my movie-watch rate in half (or more than doubling my movie-watching budget)!

To break into this industry they need shock and awe. They gave us ho-hum.

What most people are missing is that the box isn't just for movies. I have had one since they came out and have probably only watched 5 movies on it. I would have bought it just for the photo capabilities and music. Everytime friends or family come over, I have my photos on the 42" HDTV and selected tunes playing in the background and ALWAYS get the "shock-and-awe". Now that I have a wonderful way to watch movies from my couch in high definition, I am even happier with my decision to buy it!

redfirebird08
Jan 15, 2008, 06:35 PM
the rental service isn't up for me yet either.

Me neither.

irun5k
Jan 15, 2008, 06:48 PM
Twenty-four hour movie rental? No thanks. I'll download an illegal copy and watch it when its convenient for me, and not try and rush and watch it on Apple's timeline. Give me 48-hours and that is manageable and I might pay to do that, but 24-hours isn't feasible with work, kids, life, etc.

Nice argument. I agree. My wife and I were getting ready to buy a new Honda CRV but they wanted like 22K for it and that was without leather and a V6 engine! Can you believe? So we just decided to steal one off the lot instead. Really, it is Honda's fault we stole the car from them.

Give me leather and that is manageable and I might pay for that, but no leather and no V6 isn't feasible for driving to work, hauling the kids, life, etc.

The model they have presented is basically similar (better actually) than video on demand that we have with Oceanic cable. We pay 4 bucks a couple times a month to watch movies in a 24 hour window because it is a spontaneous thing to do, a cheap evening, and doesn't involve driving to blockbuster twice. Plus it is cheaper, because at least here in Hawaii movies are $5 at Blockbuster. This is just the first cut, peeps! I'm sure it will evolve to fit more people's desires. Look at what is happening with music- higher quality, no DRM, etc.

macUser2007
Jan 15, 2008, 06:49 PM
Not everyone wants to watch a dozen movies a month ...I currently have the 2 a month netflix plan and I can't wait to dump it for Apple's service. Why? I've run out of crap I want to see....

Huh? You've run out of things to see, so you'll dump Netflix's 90,000 library for Apple's 1,000 library?! How does this make sense, is beyond me.

Also, Netflix rents HiDef formats - both BR and HDDVD. At full 1080p resolution. Included in your monthly fee. Also, with Netflix, you can watch a rapidly growing selection online, at a quality equal to iTunes - and it's also included in your fee.

Of course, while I use Macs for everything else, I finally gave up on Apple for my HTPC. Now I boot into Vista and run Media Portal as my front-end, which allows me watch Netflix streams, as well as BR/HDDVDs on my LG dual format player and dvd/cd burner:-)

Also, you should try some of the older classics available on Netflix, you may find some surprisingly good stuff among them.

leefaus
Jan 15, 2008, 06:53 PM
Do a search in iTunes for "Aristocats". It says "Rent Movie" for 2.99. Unfortunately when I try, it tells me this item is not available in the US. So they are coming!

Glial
Jan 15, 2008, 06:55 PM
Well that same process can be used to transfer songs directly from an iPod to a computer it isn't paired with. Apple knows it can be done but hasn't prevented it.

Protected AAC files purchased from iTunes?

jettredmont
Jan 15, 2008, 06:56 PM
Good luck getting a movie from Netflix 1 day after you ordered it, especially if you have to return another movie. Unless you leave your queue empty you will have to wait 3 days for a movie after deciding to add it to your queue.
Also with AppleTV you don't have to deal with scratched disks. If you rent kids movies you know how common this problem is.

I have Blockbuster Total Access, so I can't speak for Netflix, but, generally, return/next scenario goes like this:

Monday: Watch movie (A). Bring watched movie (A) in to BB store, pick up replacement rental (B) (free exchange; store puts (A) into the mail for me).
Tuesday: Email says (A) recieved by store; replacement (C) is in mail. Watch replacement (B) that night.
Wednesday: About 50% chance replacement (C) arrives in mail. Watch movie (C). Bring watched movie (C) in to BB store, pick up replacement rental (D) ...
Thursday: If it wasn't there Wed, it's there today.

Three nights, three movies, if I'm lucky. Even if not, I've got two movies out at a time from the online service, so I certainly could watch one movie every night year round.

Granted, my schedule isn't that free. I do the above in bursts, then go a week or so with no activity, two movies just sitting on my shelf waiting for viewing time. Generally, "Monday" night above, after returning from the actual store, I adjust my queue adding a different movie I saw and wanted to rent at the store to the top; that arrives a day and a half later. I hear BlockBuster and Netflix apply "new release throttles" to folks burning through movies at a rate like above; I certainly haven't seen it here yet though, most likely because of my "fallow" times :)

So, anyway, to your point: location is likely the #1 factor here, but certainly where I live, BBTA is giving me exactly what you say is impossible: ~1-day turnaround (so long as you make your choice before they send out mail the first day) or less (when you take into account the in-store exchange). Netflix customers would be able to throw in the streaming download service as a counter to the "you have to plan half a week ahead" argument as well.

macUser2007
Jan 15, 2008, 07:01 PM
....This is just the first cut, peeps! I'm sure it will evolve to fit more people's desires. Look at what is happening with music- higher quality, no DRM, etc.

LOL, you realize that the higher quality, no DRM, etc., is happening not because the music industry wants to be nice to you and Apple, but precisely because they figured out that market forces dictate that they should try to balance their desire for higher profits, against the P2P world, which is their real "competition."

It works like this: Lower the prices to the point where the costs/benefits for most people tilt toward buying legally for $1, rather than dealing with the hassle and wasted time of looking to pilfer it.

iTunes showed them what may be the magic number for music.

For movies, $5 per 720p rental, or $3-$4 per SD rental, for 24hrs, ain't it.

Frankly, with the manufacturing and distribution savings the studio realize from going online, they should be selling titles for that much. DRM free. Then they'll capture a mach broader market, and most likely will make more money than now.

angelwatt
Jan 15, 2008, 07:04 PM
Something totally screwy with the rentals system. I see the list for "Top Rentals" and I click on a list, and it'll show the movies with a buy option, but no rent option. It's been hours since this was unveiled, what's up?

jettredmont
Jan 15, 2008, 07:05 PM
What most people are missing is that the box isn't just for movies. I have had one since they came out and have probably only watched 5 movies on it. I would have bought it just for the photo capabilities and music. Everytime friends or family come over, I have my photos on the 42" HDTV and selected tunes playing in the background and ALWAYS get the "shock-and-awe". Now that I have a wonderful way to watch movies from my couch in high definition, I am even happier with my decision to buy it!

That is quite true. The :apple:tv, despite all my criticisms of its rental model, is high on my list of geek-lust gadgets for this year. And, maybe that's all Apple really cares about. Maybe "oh, you can rent movies on it" will end up being nothing more than a half-hearted feature checkbox to pull on-the-fence buyers in.

But Apple seems right now to have a lot invested in the success of their system. I don't know.

In any case, as I've said here at some point, I'll probably buy an :apple:tv, and it's likely that when it's sitting there in my living room the rental service will end up looking better to me. But, I'm an unrepentant fanboy. Most people out there are not going to buy the box just to buy the box, and all the above reasons to buy it have been there for the most part untouched since this time last year. No one (meaning, not enough people to qualify it as a success) has bought. I don't see an obviously-flawed rental model changing that.

boxandrew
Jan 15, 2008, 07:11 PM
Aristocats rental page now loads, but I haven't tried renting it...

Ugg
Jan 15, 2008, 07:12 PM
Having read through a couple of the posts here about AppleTV vs Netflix I would suggest that I will probably take a hybrid approach.

So having said all that I think my solution is a hybrid. Downgrade my Netflix to 2 at a time and use the savings to rent the occasional iTunes movie when I'm out of options and need something to watch. Right now, neither model works perfectly for me, but I think a judicious use of both will be just the ticket!

That is my thought exactly. I never seem to have a Netflix movie on Sunday nights and Blockbuster or the other local video stores never have anything I want to watch.

It's not perfect but until Netflix plays nice with Macs, there's really no other option.

I just wish somebody in the movie industry had the balls to provide their customers with what they want instead of running around with their tail between their legs.

Someday.....

Shorties
Jan 15, 2008, 07:24 PM
Aristocats rental page now loads, but I haven't tried renting it...

Good catch http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMovie?id=187696408&s=143441

Toe
Jan 15, 2008, 07:24 PM
The 30-days-after DVD delay is clearly something Apple had to negotiate with the studios.

Those studios have negotiated deals with Blockbuster and Netflix. They can't break those existing agreements just to let Apple sell their content (which pretty much is going to sell anyway, as far as they're concerned). So Apple had to give the studios something to appease Blockbuster and Netflix.

But don't worry. All those agreements have time limits in them (if they're negotiated sanely). As the other agreements come up for re-negotiation, the studios are probably going to try to work for Apple. After all, Apple is finally enabling what the studios have always wanted: direct delivery into the home with no physical medium.

In any event, the 30-day delay will fade away as this delivery model matures. After all, today Apple declared war on the DVD with the MacBook Air. Who needs ancient things like disks when we have high-speed internet?

zweigand
Jan 15, 2008, 07:26 PM
Huh? You've run out of things to see, so you'll dump Netflix's 90,000 library for Apple's 1,000 library?! How does this make sense, is beyond me.

Also, Netflix rents HiDef formats - both BR and HDDVD. At full 1080p resolution. Included in your monthly fee. Also, with Netflix, you can watch a rapidly growing selection online, at a quality equal to iTunes - and it's also included in your fee.

Of course, while I use Macs for everything else, I finally gave up on Apple for my HTPC. Now I boot into Vista and run Media Portal as my front-end, which allows me watch Netflix streams, as well as BR/HDDVDs on my LG dual format player and dvd/cd burner:-)

Also, you should try some of the older classics available on Netflix, you may find some surprisingly good stuff among them.
By "run out of things I want to watch" I mean ...out of all the movies I have come across on Netflix ...none of them interest me. I'm assuming Apple will have most of the content from now on ...the shows I am interested in are the ones that have not come out yet. NEW stuff ...not old stuff.

Also, I do not have anything that supports HD other than my iMac. No HD TV ...no HD Player ...NO Cable period

brian163
Jan 15, 2008, 07:28 PM
Good catch http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMovie?id=187696408&s=143441

Um, shouldn't there still be a "buy" button also? This is very confusing IMHO...

mtrctyjoe
Jan 15, 2008, 07:33 PM
I see nothing about renting anything anywhere? What Gives???
HAS ANY ONE RENTED ANYTHING YET????

rockosmodurnlif
Jan 15, 2008, 07:36 PM
Nice argument. I agree. My wife and I were getting ready to buy a new Honda CRV but they wanted like 22K for it and that was without leather and a V6 engine! Can you believe? So we just decided to steal one off the lot instead. Really, it is Honda's fault we stole the car from them.

Give me leather and that is manageable and I might pay for that, but no leather and no V6 isn't feasible for driving to work, hauling the kids, life, etc.

The model they have presented is basically similar (better actually) than video on demand that we have with Oceanic cable. We pay 4 bucks a couple times a month to watch movies in a 24 hour window because it is a spontaneous thing to do, a cheap evening, and doesn't involve driving to blockbuster twice. Plus it is cheaper, because at least here in Hawaii movies are $5 at Blockbuster. This is just the first cut, peeps! I'm sure it will evolve to fit more people's desires. Look at what is happening with music- higher quality, no DRM, etc.
If they're trying to lure people away from "free," which I think it is reasonable to think that they are, then they're going to have to evolve indeed.

MarkW19
Jan 15, 2008, 07:42 PM
I wonder if there'll be the option to burn the rentals to DVD, for people without Apple TV etc.?

dejo
Jan 15, 2008, 07:43 PM
where is this rental thing??? i updated all of my devices and still not seeing anywhere to rent! i want to access the rental service! i want to rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! rent! help me!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Re-login to your account and accept the new Terms of Service! (I hope that does it.)

Vaportrailz
Jan 15, 2008, 07:45 PM
I was just asked to agree to new terms on the iTunes store but no rentals yet.

rstansby
Jan 15, 2008, 07:50 PM
Also, with Netflix, you can watch a rapidly growing selection online, at a quality equal to iTunes - and it's also included in your fee.


For some reason I can't get this to work on my iMac :-)

I have used it on a PC and the quality is nowhere near as good as iTunes. I have a broadband internet connection and Netflix says "determining connection speed" or some such thing. Then the movie comes out looking very blocky. YMMV

rstansby
Jan 15, 2008, 07:51 PM
I was just asked to agree to new terms on the iTunes store but no rentals yet.

If Steve would have said this would be available in a week I'd have been fine with that, but he said today. I am going bonkers trying to figure out how to rent a movie, just so I can try it out.

mtrctyjoe
Jan 15, 2008, 07:52 PM
Re-login to your account and accept the new Terms of Service! (I hope that does it.)

Do we know what is going on? Has Apple officially made a statement as to why they have yet to turn on the Rental Service?:eek::eek:

Vaportrailz
Jan 15, 2008, 07:53 PM
Apple's eternal comment is always No Comment LOL:p

obeygiant
Jan 15, 2008, 07:57 PM
I think this new itunes movie rentals is more exciting than the MBA announcement. I shows off Apple earning potential which is good for us shareholders.

Palmer64s
Jan 15, 2008, 08:03 PM
The movie 300 is shown as for rent for $3.99. It looks like Apple is slowly adding movies.

peestandingup
Jan 15, 2008, 08:09 PM
Yeah, the trick is move close to either Richmond,VA or some place in California. That is where at least my in-laws movies come from. They can send back a movie and have a new one the next night.
What is with people on here spreading false info about Netflix to raise up iTunes rental model. :rolleyes:

Actually, Netflix literally has dozen & dozens of distribution centers scattered across the US. So, for most people, they get their DVDs the very next day after it ships.

So, these people on here claiming that it takes a "week or longer" to receive DVDs are full of it.

Vaportrailz
Jan 15, 2008, 08:10 PM
Yeha I see 300 as a rental now too, looking at other Warner Brothers films....

diamond.g
Jan 15, 2008, 08:14 PM
What is with people on here spreading false info about Netflix to raise up iTunes rental model. :rolleyes:

Actually, Netflix literally has dozen & dozens of distribution centers scattered across the US. So, for most people, they get their DVDs the very next day after it ships.

So, these people on here claiming that it takes a "week or longer" to receive DVDs are full of it.

Wasn't trying to spread false info on purpose. I just couldn't find the right phrasing for live near a distribution center. Frankly Apples rental method isn't better than Netflix. Even with the ability to watch a movie on an iPod/iPhone seamlessly.

Fast Shadow
Jan 15, 2008, 08:15 PM
I don't even see 300 listed in the store anymore, for purchase or for rent.

Apple's dropping the ball pretty badly on this one.

macUser2007
Jan 15, 2008, 08:18 PM
For some reason I can't get this to work on my iMac :-)

I have used it on a PC and the quality is nowhere near as good as iTunes. I have a broadband internet connection and Netflix says "determining connection speed" or some such thing. Then the movie comes out looking very blocky. YMMV

I have Netflix working on my Intel Duo 1.6 iMac in the bedroom. Oh, but I boot into Vista to do it:-)

Seriously though, I feel the quality is pretty equal to iTunes. I never see blockines, but the quality does depend on the source - newer movies look better, some of the older ones can get pretty soft. Not unlike DVDs, in a way.

All I am saying is, Apple needs to a adopt a model closer to Netflix's rather than this $5 per 24hr 720p rental. At $5 for 720p for only a day, P2P will still capture a significant portion of the potential market.

I realize it's not up to Apple. But sometimes I feel that Detroit (Toyota just became the second largest manufacturer of cars IN THE US...) and Hollywood should consider publicly hanging their management in front of Headquarters, to save both industries:-)

boxandrew
Jan 15, 2008, 08:18 PM
I don't even see 300 listed in the store anymore, for purchase or for rent.

Apple's dropping the ball pretty badly on this one.

I did manage to find it, but it has since disappeared. I'm sure it will all be sorted by tomorrow morning, but I was looking forward to checking out a movie rental tonight...

Ah well, I should save my money anyway since I spent $20 on the iPod Touch update.

xli_ne
Jan 15, 2008, 08:18 PM
Yeha I see 300 as a rental now too, looking at other Warner Brothers films....

300 is on itunes? where? I've been searching for it on there and can't find it.

Vaportrailz
Jan 15, 2008, 08:18 PM
Crocodile Hunter: Collision Course is also a rental now.

Apple is not dropping the ball lol. Think of the servers that have to be updated. They just want it to work when its updated in true Apple style.

Vaportrailz
Jan 15, 2008, 08:19 PM
Do a power search for movies only: 300

xli_ne
Jan 15, 2008, 08:22 PM
Do a power search for movies only: 300


If i use the power search and use "300" as the title: nothing

If I search by director it shows up. Weird


Also showing all movies doesn't show up. Also weird

boxandrew
Jan 15, 2008, 08:22 PM
Found it again:

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMovie?id=271146652&s=143441

But the link doesn't seem to be working. It's all very strange... :confused:

Vaportrailz
Jan 15, 2008, 08:23 PM
I agree Netflix has the better model. Hollywood is tying Apple's hands here I'm sure. I'll probably use this service but not very much. Hollywood is so behind the times with the electronic age. They should just accept the fact that the paradigm has changed and that if they want to continue to make money they are going to have to change their business model.

Fast Shadow
Jan 15, 2008, 08:24 PM
If i use the power search and use "300" as the title: nothing

If I search by director it shows up. Weird


Also showing all movies doesn't show up. Also weird

it's not weird

it's madness

madness?

it

is

SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Ult
Jan 15, 2008, 08:25 PM
If i use the power search and use "300" as the title: nothing

If I search by director it shows up. Weird


Also showing all movies doesn't show up. Also weird

Just do a power search, select movies, you'll now see a checkmark that says "search movies that are available for rental" and enter 2007 in the year field. Then keep searching and it'll eventually increase in results. (of which I can only see the movie 300 listed as rentable now)

Vaportrailz
Jan 15, 2008, 08:28 PM
I don't have that check-mark yet. I'm in Florida.

azajohns
Jan 15, 2008, 08:29 PM
Is it me, or has the release of movie rentals on iTunes has basically revealed how much the studios are sticking it to their customers with purchased movies?

Think about it, in the olden days, rental model was based on one physical DVD 'copy' of a movie being rented to many people over and over again. All the costs of production and distribution that went into that individual copy was being spread across the masses, so the relative small price of renting it was justified.

Now what we basically have is a system whereby the production of the rental copy is exactly the same as the purchased copy. The storage is the same, the delivery is the same, the sales costs, everything is exactly the same, except the cost to the customer. Right down to the 24hour limit. Once apon a time that limit existed so that somebody else could go in and rent it, that's no longer relevant.

Right now the only difference between the rented file that sits on your hard drive and the purchased file that sits on your hard drive is one will explode and one will not. And that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

For a while now many have argued the cost of digital media was comparable to physical CDs and DVDs due to the cost of storage and bandwidth. I think the introduction of rentals has basically rendered that point mute. We now see the cost of delivery is negligable and they just charging what they know people are used to paying, and pocketing the profits.

What am I missing here?

leefaus
Jan 15, 2008, 08:30 PM
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMovie?id=271146652&s=143441

Vaportrailz
Jan 15, 2008, 08:30 PM
ok Found the check mark page but don't put anything in the boxes at all and get about 150 movies so far

stagi
Jan 15, 2008, 08:30 PM
Just do a power search, select movies, you'll now see a checkmark that says "search movies that are available for rental" and enter 2007 in the year field. Then keep searching and it'll eventually increase in results. (of which I can only see the movie 300 listed as rentable now) Doesn't work for me (and I tried to logout and login) but can't see any rental movies yet. Anyone else still having problems?

redfirebird08
Jan 15, 2008, 08:30 PM
The movie page in iTunes now has a section that says "Top Rentals" on the far right hand part of the window.

EDIT: But then when you click on it, it brings up like 6 movies total and not one of them is even available for rent. One of them is Zoolander. It says "Buy" under it and I went to its page and there is no sign of a Rent button.

They definitely dropped the ball on this.

KSpider
Jan 15, 2008, 08:31 PM
I cant find it using the any search and typing in 300. I tried searching by 30 and it didnt find it. Then i just searched for "3" and it is there... probably just taking a while to index?

EDIT: the search movies available for rental just popped up

leefaus
Jan 15, 2008, 08:38 PM
Here are some photos of the process for downloading a rental!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/faushouse/sets/72157603727267867/

Movies don't show up in front row :(

Lee

Brendon Bauer
Jan 15, 2008, 08:43 PM
Sometimes I wonder if iTunes is full of crap. When I see something like this after reading about how practically nobody has been able to rent yet... is this totally fake? Do they just make their data up? Is it like staff favorites? lol you can click on these movies and there is absolutely nothing about being able to rent them.. only to buy.

rstansby
Jan 15, 2008, 08:56 PM
Sometimes I wonder if iTunes is full of crap. When I see something like this after reading about how practically nobody has been able to rent yet... is this totally fake? Do they just make their data up? Is it like staff favorites? lol you can click on these movies and there is absolutely nothing about being able to rent them.. only to buy.

I bet each of those movies has been rented once, by the 8 people who have been able to rent movies so far:-)

boojiboy
Jan 15, 2008, 08:57 PM
1. Goto to movies
2. Click on Pirates of the Caribbean A Lands End
3. Click on View all Reviews
4. then click on "Sort by most recent to see more"

The screen flicks and the rental button is available

This also worked with other movies listed in recent rentals

I'm sure this is a gltch in the system, but it works

Hope this Helps

redfirebird08
Jan 15, 2008, 08:58 PM
Methinks Apple needs more servers. They now have all the major studios providing content, meaning demand will be a lot higher for movies in iTunes. Jobs shouldn't have said anything at all about it being ready for use today. He should have just said, "In the next few days."

stomachdoc
Jan 15, 2008, 09:03 PM
Kinda reminds me of the first day that ringtones were available; minimal implementation for the first 24 hours and then it really came on line.

scut
Jan 15, 2008, 09:03 PM
I was able to rent 300. Haven't watched it yet as I want to connect it to my iPhone to see how that works.

I followed the steps laid out by previous posters to search for the movie 300. Once I found it I clicked 'rent movie'. That brought up the new terms of service which after you agree to there is another button that says go back and rent your content. When I hit the 'rent movie' again on the 300 page it all started to work. Movie downloaded...Rented Movies popped up in my iTunes.

I'm going to try the Pirates suggestion above to see if I can trick the system. We all need a hobby! :D

Edit: I was able to reproduce the Pirates glitch that shows a rental button mentioned above. I didn't rent it as I already own. It took forever for the iPhone to see that I'd rented 300. When it did, the following info shows up under the 'video' tab on the iPhone menu in iTunes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/scutter/RentedMovies.jpg

javaGuru
Jan 15, 2008, 09:03 PM
do I see at this time. I've loaded 7.6 Why would a movie rental only be available to those with ATV?

Is it still possible for people with apple TV to rent movies via iTunes since apple will not be releasing this software update for them for a couple of weeks?

AtariMac
Jan 15, 2008, 09:11 PM
I found that in order for rentals to show up you need to act as if you are going to buy something from iTMS. Click the buy button and then you have to agree to the new terms of service.

Once I did this I searched for the movie 300 and it showed up as a rental.

Your mileage may vary

barijazz
Jan 15, 2008, 09:16 PM
1. Goto to movies
2. Click on Pirates of the Caribbean A Lands End
3. Click on View all Reviews
4. then click on "Sort by most recent to see more"

The screen flicks and the rental button is available

This also worked with other movies listed in recent rentals

I'm sure this is a gltch in the system, but it works

Hope this Helps

Thanks it works, Woo Hoo!

myohe
Jan 15, 2008, 09:16 PM
I was able to rent Pirates 3. Rented movies popped up as an option on my itunes. It took awhile before I could watch though. Good luck all.

boojiboy
Jan 15, 2008, 09:39 PM
5min ago Ratatouille was not available for rent, but now it is

Peace
Jan 15, 2008, 09:46 PM
Is it still possible for people with apple TV to rent movies via iTunes since apple will not be releasing this software update for them for a couple of weeks?


The current Apple TV software version lacks the codecs necessary to play the rental movies.In two weeks when the software is updated I'm thinking you might be able to sync a non-viewed rental movie to the Apple TV from iTunes on your computer.
But until then they won't transfer or play.

otto-matic
Jan 15, 2008, 09:46 PM
The pirates refresh trick worked, watching parts, itunes quality.

Anyone see any HD titles yet?

redfirebird08
Jan 15, 2008, 09:57 PM
The pirates refresh trick worked, watching parts, itunes quality.

Anyone see any HD titles yet?

HD titles are only available through the :apple:TV.

senator818
Jan 15, 2008, 09:58 PM
refresh trick worked for me too!!!

But itunes says 5hrs remaining to download, what's that about. Does that mean I get the movie for 31hrs?????


:D:D:D

rnwjr
Jan 15, 2008, 10:15 PM
No luck for me... Do you think they will have a queue like Netflix or Blockbuster???

jaw04005
Jan 15, 2008, 10:15 PM
I thought I just rented 300, but it doesn't show it to be downloading. "Check for Purchases" also turns up nothing.

I agreed to the new licensing agreement and pop-up.

zdobson
Jan 15, 2008, 10:16 PM
Bad deal indeed, will only please fanbois.

It might be bad if you rent dozens of movies a month and have to see all the latest movies, but for someone like me, I think it will work well because:

1) If there is a movie I'm desperate to see, I go to... :eek: a theater! I don't need to rent a movie as soon as it's released on DVD

2) I rent 0-4 movies a month, so it's not worth it to pay for a subscription somewhere and the rental cost is the same as my local video store.

Scarpad
Jan 15, 2008, 10:17 PM
So how will they handle this? After the FW update on the Apple TV when you rent will it DL the HD version? And in Itunes will it only DL the version that will work on the Ipods or Iphone?

Still it makes more sense to rent from Redbox for a buck and rip it in AppleTV Quality to your Itunes. Then delete it of course.

Qubits
Jan 15, 2008, 10:34 PM
Update of Touch is working great!

Also, now I have been able to rent Rat•a•too•ee for the kids. How many ipods can we link to the download? "I know, I know - Look it up mister"

Toe
Jan 15, 2008, 10:34 PM
Methinks Apple needs more servers. They now have all the major studios providing content, meaning demand will be a lot higher for movies in iTunes. Jobs shouldn't have said anything at all about it being ready for use today. He should have just said, "In the next few days."
Apple's just buys bandwidth from companies like Akamai (http://www.akamai.com/html/customers/customer_list.html). Apple just has to pay bigger bills to them, but it seems like they can handle pretty much any level of content.

John Musbach
Jan 15, 2008, 10:38 PM
This is very interesting, I am a little surprised that Apple has gone ahead and jumped into this market. Why? This market already seems pretty well covered by on demand content, netflix on demand and netflix's continuing work to get their new dvr box on demand service integrated with mainstream tv dvr boxes. But perhaps Apple's "cool factor" will keep this service going smoothly along with their AppleTV product much like it has been keeping mac sales steady despite economic troubles. Keep on keeping on Apple! :)

derringdo2001
Jan 15, 2008, 10:39 PM
I don't see any subtitles or captions on the movie rentals. This greatly disappoints me as a hard-of-hearing woman since I've long admired Apple for incorporating accessibility into their hardware and software design. I definitely am not going to be renting any movies through the iTunes store, and I'll stick with my subscription service with Netflix.

JMcMasterJ
Jan 15, 2008, 10:51 PM
iTunes rentals are now showing up in the center of the movies page in iTunes.

Astro8973
Jan 15, 2008, 10:52 PM
rentals are officially coming in :D. but why cant i have the option to purchase? and where is star wars lol

ynTheatre
Jan 15, 2008, 11:05 PM
The rental service seems to be slowly coming online now (it is still Tuesday in California, so I guess when they said "today" they weren't lying). Promotional banners have started appearing on the iTunes Store Home page. The user comments trick also works as noted above.

The new user agreement (will pop up the next time you go to buy/rent something) clears up any questions:

- HD content only available on :apple:Tv and has to be downloaded directly to that device.
- You can move a rented movie to only 1 device and once you do, the sending device (presumably your computer) will no longer be able to play the movie. It is safe to assume that you can watch the entire movie on the computer and then transfer it to iPod and iPhone and watch it again or (more likely) transfer it to the device to finish watching on the go
- Movies rented directly to :apple:Tv stay on the device

My two cents on the pro/con arguments of this new service: Jobs stressed that most people only watch the movie ONCE and that is what this model is based on. Instead of buying the movie for $9.99 - $14.99 (from iTunes) you can rent it for $2.99-$3.99 (a little more for HD content and :apple:Tv, but then HD DVD's cost more too. Considering the complexities of getting such a deal from all the major studios, I'd say apple did well and we'll see how it develops. Now, I'm off to watch my rental of 300 (currently not available for purchase).

redfirebird08
Jan 15, 2008, 11:16 PM
Anyone else notice that it says "full screen" on a lot of movies? That SUCKS.

irishcrazy2005
Jan 15, 2008, 11:17 PM
So here is my question. If I rent a movie and put it on my 5G iPod or my soon to be bought iPhone, will that movie delete itself 24 hours after I start it, or will it not be able to delete itself until I sync the device back to iTunes?

finiteyoda
Jan 15, 2008, 11:25 PM
So here is my question. If I rent a movie and put it on my 5G iPod or my soon to be bought iPhone, will that movie delete itself 24 hours after I start it, or will it not be able to delete itself until I sync the device back to iTunes?

I'm pretty sure the iphone itself would delete the movie automatically.

zap2
Jan 15, 2008, 11:27 PM
I'm thinking about renting 300..I've heard is wasn't worth the buy, but yes for a rent(and that was assuming rent for 7USD) so I'm figuring I'll get it soon


Yea...wish we could buy too(if we wanted to)

penningm
Jan 15, 2008, 11:27 PM
I don't see any subtitles or captions on the movie rentals. This greatly disappoints me as a hard-of-hearing woman since I've long admired Apple for incorporating accessibility into their hardware and software design. I definitely am not going to be renting any movies through the iTunes store, and I'll stick with my subscription service with Netflix.

Looking through the rentals it seems as though there are a few that do in fact have closed captioning. Just glancing through I see The Italian Job, Orange County, Down to Earth, Pootie Tang, Charlotte's Web, Jimmy Neutron etc...

So they are there. I'm not hard of hearing but I do wish that they would have a more complete selection, I do see it as a move in the right direction though.

jschmit
Jan 15, 2008, 11:27 PM
1. Click Powersearch
2. Dropdown menu - Movies
3. Under the Movie Title field is a checkbox "Search movies that are available for Rental." Click it on.
4. Leave all fields blank and just hit the Search button.

At the moment this produces 291 titles available for rental.

redfirebird08
Jan 15, 2008, 11:28 PM
I'm thinking about renting 300..I've heard is wasn't worth the buy, but yes for a rent(and that was assuming rent for 7USD) so I'm figuring I'll get it soon


Yea...wish we could buy too(if we wanted to)

The iTunes version is full screen. The movie itself is 2:35:1 aspect ratio. I would not rent it from iTunes if I were you. Rent the DVD.

irishcrazy2005
Jan 15, 2008, 11:32 PM
I'm thinking about renting 300..I've heard is wasn't worth the buy, but yes for a rent(and that was assuming rent for 7USD) so I'm figuring I'll get it soon


Yea...wish we could buy too(if we wanted to)

Where the heck do you rent movies that it costs 7USD? I live in the Bay Area and even here I can get a movie from Blockbuster for $4.50.

Vaportrailz
Jan 15, 2008, 11:45 PM
1. Click Powersearch
2. Dropdown menu - Movies
3. Under the Movie Title field is a checkbox "Search movies that are available for Rental." Click it on.
4. Leave all fields blank and just hit the Search button.

At the moment this produces 291 titles available for rental.

Wow I'm just getting 150 when I do that. I wonder if location has anything to do with it?? (Florida here)

MacinDoc
Jan 15, 2008, 11:49 PM
This is most comparable to cable providers' PPV services. In my area, it costs $3.99 for a library title (all 400 of them), $4.99 for a 1 month old release (nothing comes to PPV earlier than this) and $8.99 for an HD title. You have 24 hours to finish viewing from the time you rent (not from the time you start watching). So, for me, the iTunes rentals are more economical, and the selection is much better. Of course, I live in Canada, where cable company rates are almost as bad as wireless provider rates.

stealthman1
Jan 15, 2008, 11:57 PM
Well so much for watching it as soon as it starts downloading...I just rented the new Pirates of the Caribbean movie and it says...FOUR hours remaining to download...:eek::(

redfirebird08
Jan 15, 2008, 11:59 PM
Well so much for watching it as soon as it starts downloading...I just rented the new Pirates of the Caribbean movie and it says...FOUR hours remaining to download...:eek::(

You can start watching it as soon as it has downloaded some of it (like 5-10%).

Qubits
Jan 16, 2008, 12:01 AM
Wow I'm just getting 150 when I do that. I wonder if location has anything to do with it?? (Florida here)

Click the more results :)

ynTheatre
Jan 16, 2008, 12:02 AM
Anyone else notice that it says "full screen" on a lot of movies? That SUCKS.

Rented 300. It says that it's Full Screen on the iTunes Page but the movie was delivered in Widescreen. Not sure what to make of it. Could be a glitch in the database and that movies will really be Widescreen.

Qubits
Jan 16, 2008, 12:02 AM
You can start watching it as soon as it has downloaded some of it (like 5-10%).


With those numbers, won't the real time catch up with the download, and cause a stop?

redfirebird08
Jan 16, 2008, 12:05 AM
With those numbers, won't the real time catch up with the download, and cause a stop?

Yes. :D

Rented 300. It says that it's Full Screen on the iTunes Page but the movie was delivered in Widescreen. Not sure what to make of it. Could be a glitch in the database and that movies will really be Widescreen.

Well that is a huge relief in my opinion. If these were in full screen that would be such a rip-off to everyone that does NOT have a video iPod or full screen monitor. I have an iPod Photo and am waiting for the touch to get a lot more storage before I upgrade, and my Macbook is widescreen. I would likely hook it up to my 23 inch HDTV monitor.

Qubits
Jan 16, 2008, 12:10 AM
Yes. :D


O.K. then why are we smiling? Inverse play back and download defeats the system. Is it this way because there are too many of us downloading tonight?

Where are the pros when you need them?

redfirebird08
Jan 16, 2008, 12:14 AM
O.K. then why are we smiling? Inverse play back and download defeats the system. Is it this way because there are too many of us downloading tonight?

Where are the pros when you need them?

I don't know. I've always had slow downloads on iTunes (like 100k), but I think my college limits my connection since I'm in a dorm. It used to be much faster. I downloaded (to own) Pirates 3 not too long ago and it took like 8 hours. Just left it running all night. That's what I'd do if I were you -- and don't start watching it because you have 30 days to start watching it.

powerbook911
Jan 16, 2008, 12:21 AM
Can you transfer to Apple TV???

Qubits
Jan 16, 2008, 12:21 AM
Try explaining that to the family who wants to sit down after dinner and watch a movie. THE WHOLE MOVIE. This is lame so far on my system, typical cable connection, Netgear Router and G5 Mac. :confused:

redfirebird08
Jan 16, 2008, 12:24 AM
Try explaining that to the family who wants to sit down after dinner and watch a movie. THE WHOLE MOVIE. This is lame so far on my system, typical cable connection, Netgear Router and G5 Mac. :confused:

Yep, it's not all that it's cracked out to be. Eventually Internet connections and hard drive storage will make downloads the easiest, most convenient way of owning your movies. Set top boxes like :apple:TV have great potential but are currently limited by Internet connections and storage, especially when you start talking about high def content.

powerbook911
Jan 16, 2008, 12:26 AM
I think the ones you get on Apple TV will all be better quality, even the non-HD ones cause Apple TV says the regular ones are "DVD quality," whereas itunes always just says "near DVD."

redfirebird08
Jan 16, 2008, 12:32 AM
I think the ones you get on Apple TV will all be better quality, even the non-HD ones cause Apple TV says the regular ones are "DVD quality," whereas itunes always just says "near DVD."

That is true. iTunes and iPod needs to be updated to DVD quality. It's past time that they update them. This is just as retarded as letting the ITMS stay at 128 kbps bit rate for so long. They should have been 192 kbps or better from the very beginning. And eventually they should stop charging a premium on HD content. It's not fair. Digital broadcasting is going to be a standard straight from the government starting next February. If the government is mandating it, then Apple should be ahead of the game in this regard; if you market yourself as a quality product, then put out a quality product. They charged extra for a higher bitrate on music, and that was wrong too. Should have never happened. Luckily, Amazon's low prices forced iTunes to lower the prices on iTunes+ tracks to 99 cents.

I have bought two movies from iTunes and both of them have awful quality: Pirates 3 and O Brother Where Art Thou. I'm thinking of ripping Pirates 3 and deleting the iTunes one. I got the DVD for Christmas from family members but I could not wait so I downloaded it from iTunes the day it was released. As for O Brother, I downloaded it as an experiment. Luckily Pirates 3 is much better quality than O Brother, but still crap compared to the rip I have of Pirates 1 and 2 for instance.

grappler
Jan 16, 2008, 12:35 AM
Sweet.

All I can say is, netflix is so fired. Their streaming service works with windows and not with mac os. This is definitely my last month with them.

redfirebird08
Jan 16, 2008, 12:37 AM
Sweet.

All I can say is, netflix is so fired. Their streaming service works with windows and not with mac os. This is definitely my last month with them.

Parallels, Boot Camp? That's what's great about Mac buddy! We have a choice. Windows users don't. They're stuck with the crappy OS all the time no matter what!

stealthman1
Jan 16, 2008, 12:50 AM
I think the ones you get on Apple TV will all be better quality, even the non-HD ones cause Apple TV says the regular ones are "DVD quality," whereas itunes always just says "near DVD."

I'm confused...I can stream downloaded HD content from my MP or MBP to my Apple TV, but it takes 4 hours to download a SD movie. So someone tell me again how I'm going to buy an HD movie and start watching it within 30 seconds???

rstansby
Jan 16, 2008, 12:53 AM
I'm confused...I can stream downloaded HD content from my MP or MBP to my Apple TV, but it takes 4 hours to download a SD movie. So someone tell me again how I'm going to buy an HD movie and start watching it within 30 seconds???

Apparently Steve has a different type of "standard broadband connection" than the rest of us.

pinksatin
Jan 16, 2008, 12:54 AM
4 hours? It only took 30 minutes to download RoboCop... And where are the files saved that we download... the info screen only says not available...

rstansby
Jan 16, 2008, 12:55 AM
This is very interesting, I am a little surprised that Apple has gone ahead and jumped into this market. Why? This market already seems pretty well covered by on demand content, netflix on demand and netflix's continuing work to get their new dvr box on demand service integrated with mainstream tv dvr boxes. But perhaps Apple's "cool factor" will keep this service going smoothly along with their AppleTV product much like it has been keeping mac sales steady despite economic troubles. Keep on keeping on Apple! :)

I suppose it will be the only alternative for people who don't have digital cable, a DVR or a PC.

redfirebird08
Jan 16, 2008, 12:55 AM
Apparently Steve has a different type of "standard broadband connection" than the rest of us.

Yeah, with no one else trying to download from the servers either. "Normal" connection of say 30 mbps.

rstansby
Jan 16, 2008, 12:58 AM
4 hours? It only took 30 minutes to download RoboCop... And where are the files saved that we download... the info screen only says not available...

Wow, what is your broadband speed? Pirates of the Caribbean is taking 4 hours to download on SBC DSL. I can't start watching until I've waited 90 minutes. Maybe the servers are bogged down, but this isn't any slower than my previous experience downloading episodes of "Lost" from Apple.

pinksatin
Jan 16, 2008, 01:00 AM
Wow, what is your broadband speed? Pirates of the Caribbean is taking 4 hours to download on SBC DSL. I can't start watching until I've waited 90 minutes. Maybe the servers are bogged down, but this isn't any slower than my previous experience downloading episodes of "Lost" from Apple.

I'm on Road Runner... Nothing special... never been an issue for me... hmmm

redfirebird08
Jan 16, 2008, 01:05 AM
Wow, what is your broadband speed? Pirates of the Caribbean is taking 4 hours to download on SBC DSL. I can't start watching until I've waited 90 minutes. Maybe the servers are bogged down, but this isn't any slower than my previous experience downloading episodes of "Lost" from Apple.

I'm on a university LAN and it took me 7-8 hours to download Pirates 3 the day it came out in early December. I was only getting speeds in the 100-120 kbps range. I think my college has limited us though compared to what it used to be. For instance, we have a server here with downloads of MS Office, XP, etc. for free under a Campus Agreement with Microsoft (it's how I got Office 2004 for my Macbook), and it used to be REALLY fast on my connection. I used to be able to download at 800 kbps-1000 kbps. But yesterday I was trying to download something from it and was only getting like 50 kbps.

stealthman1
Jan 16, 2008, 01:06 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

maybe it will be done before my 30 days is up?:rolleyes:

I'm getting about 130kbps download from their servers and my DSL speed is about 1400kbps. Heck! I just realized EDGE is faster! Finally something EDGE is faster than! LOL.

zedsdead
Jan 16, 2008, 05:20 AM
Can someone tell me why all the Fox movies are encoded for rental in Fullscreen...I am not paying Apple's already steep price (which I am willing to do for Widescreen) for a Fullscreen, Less-Than Dvd Quality Encode.

zedsdead
Jan 16, 2008, 05:22 AM
That is true. iTunes and iPod needs to be updated to DVD quality. It's past time that they update them. This is just as retarded as letting the ITMS stay at 128 kbps bit rate for so long. They should have been 192 kbps or better from the very beginning. And eventually they should stop charging a premium on HD content. It's not fair. Digital broadcasting is going to be a standard straight from the government starting next February. If the government is mandating it, then Apple should be ahead of the game in this regard; if you market yourself as a quality product, then put out a quality product. They charged extra for a higher bitrate on music, and that was wrong too. Should have never happened. Luckily, Amazon's low prices forced iTunes to lower the prices on iTunes+ tracks to 99 cents.

I have bought two movies from iTunes and both of them have awful quality: Pirates 3 and O Brother Where Art Thou. I'm thinking of ripping Pirates 3 and deleting the iTunes one. I got the DVD for Christmas from family members but I could not wait so I downloaded it from iTunes the day it was released. As for O Brother, I downloaded it as an experiment. Luckily Pirates 3 is much better quality than O Brother, but still crap compared to the rip I have of Pirates 1 and 2 for instance.

It is ridiculous considering the new iPods are able to support 720xN resolutions with higher bit rates into the 2,000...together they produce DVD results as that is my setting now in Handbrake for both my iPhone and Apple TV.

piecewise
Jan 16, 2008, 05:27 AM
I wake up and see Rentals were added to iTunes. Sweet.

I do a "power search" of all rentals available in iTunes, and I find that there are currently 150 rentals.

150. And none of them, just like the original movie store, are movies I'd care much to see.

Can someone please explain to me how this is supposed to be the "netflix killer?"

Yesterday I told my girlfriend to cancel netflex. Today I'm saying, "Better hold off and keep your subscription."

wunderbaren
Jan 16, 2008, 06:31 AM
Okey, so if a get this right, the new rental service, the resolution is 720x480 (anamorphic)? Is it H.264?

If thats true, then we would be able to make our own movies in that resolution!? Right? Thats great news!

zedsdead
Jan 16, 2008, 07:18 AM
Okey, so if a get this right, the new rental service, the resolution is 720x480 (anamorphic)? Is it H.264?

If thats true, then we would be able to make our own movies in that resolution!? Right? Thats great news!

I am pretty sure only the Apple TV uses the Anamorphic Setting for SD, not iTunes...which is terrible.

amakh007
Jan 16, 2008, 07:20 AM
I love Apple, but this is no netflix killer.
Netflix is cheaper if you go over 4 movies a month
Netflix will have new movies 30 days before Apple
Netflix you can watch at your leisure and not "within 24 hours" once you start
Nice try Apple, but I'll wait for 3.0 (with a Blue Ray)......

wunderbaren
Jan 16, 2008, 07:28 AM
I am pretty sure only the Apple TV uses the Anamorphic Setting for SD, not iTunes...which is terrible.

Okey, but is it still 720x480 and H.264? Or is it still 640x480? I dont get it.

mailhojo
Jan 16, 2008, 07:45 AM
Anyone else notice that it says "full screen" on a lot of movies? That SUCKS.


I agree!!! I NEVER buy a DVD that is FULLSCREEN and I will NEVER rent one from iTunes! They (Apple) compromised with the studios to get this up and running. Don't even get me started with the complexity of the user agreement. This is at best a novelty for people who are really into movies. The average user won't care about the fullscreen, though. They don't even realize a lot of the movie is missing in fullscreen. I'm sticking with Netflicks - MORE MOVIES, BETTER QUALITY, CONVENIENT, CHEAP. Apple doesn't really beat them in any of these areas, and by the looks of it, won't for a very long time... Better luck next time.

pilotError
Jan 16, 2008, 08:03 AM
I agree!!! I NEVER buy a DVD that is FULLSCREEN and I will NEVER rent one from iTunes! They (Apple) compromised with the studios to get this up and running. Don't even get me started with the complexity of the user agreement. This is at best a novelty for people who are really into movies. The average user won't care about the fullscreen, though. They don't even realize a lot of the movie is missing in fullscreen. I'm sticking with Netflicks - MORE MOVIES, BETTER QUALITY, CONVENIENT, CHEAP. Apple doesn't really beat them in any of these areas, and by the looks of it, won't for a very long time... Better luck next time.

It certainly looks like the studios won this round, but Apple needed to start gaining a foothold in the market. You can't negotiate when you have no negotiating power. Netflix and Blockbuster have WAY more influence over the video market than Apple will be allowed to over the next few years.

Video on Demand is fundamentally different then music downloads. The truth is, if the Cable companies would offer reasonable VOD rates, they could pretty much corner the market. They already have the set top boxes and the delivery mechanism, but are too greedy to see the big picture.

I already have an ATV for different reasons, so this is a plus for me. For an impulse rental, the convenience factor is huge! I don't know that this would make me go out an buy one though.

NightStorm
Jan 16, 2008, 08:11 AM
I agree!!! I NEVER buy a DVD that is FULLSCREEN and I will NEVER rent one from iTunes! They (Apple) compromised with the studios to get this up and running. Don't even get me started with the complexity of the user agreement. This is at best a novelty for people who are really into movies. The average user won't care about the fullscreen, though. They don't even realize a lot of the movie is missing in fullscreen. I'm sticking with Netflicks - MORE MOVIES, BETTER QUALITY, CONVENIENT, CHEAP. Apple doesn't really beat them in any of these areas, and by the looks of it, won't for a very long time... Better luck next time.
From the various posts here and elsewhere, it appears that it may be that they are simply mislabeled. I haven't tried myself yet (waiting for AppleTV update), so I don't know for sure.

Toe
Jan 16, 2008, 08:32 AM
Parallels, Boot Camp? That's what's great about Mac buddy! We have a choice. Windows users don't. They're stuck with the crappy OS all the time no matter what!
These days when someone shows me their Windows computer, I just want to say, "Really? You use that all day?" It is just unimaginable.

I can see why once you go Mac, you don't go back. :D