New Mac Pro single processor units

[yesthisisapc]

As some of you may know, the new Mac Pros have a single processor option. In the past, Apple has depopulated the other socket. Do any of you have one of the new single processor units? If so, could you please check if the other socket is depopulated?

I ask this because of a few reasons. As you ALSO may know, it is possible, though not recommended, to upgrade the CPUs in the previous Mac Pros. Being the cheap git that I am, I figure I'd rather purchase a separate set of higher power Penryn chips that Apple would charge more for an upgrade to myself. I've contacted all the people I know at Apple (I work at a reseller) to try and find information, but as you may know, that's like trying to get blood from a stone.

[jablko]

I'm interested in this too. (Sorry, OP, if I've gotten your hopes up by replying, but I don't have the answer).

I'm also very interested in seeing benchmarks for the single processor MP in comparison with the dual processor ones, especially "real world" tests like Photoshop, mpeg rendering, Fusion/Parallels, etc.

My guess is that many programs don't effectively use multiple CPUs and the difference in real world apps wouldn't be as significant as in synthetic benchmarks. Please, someone, prove me wrong.

My office has two new MPs in the budget for this year, one for our student workers/interns to use for videography (that will be a beast) and the other for my workstation.

I doubt I need eight cores for most of my work, but I do occaisionally do processor-intensive things like video editing, and I want snappy response time for virtualized XP/Vista/Ubuntu even if the computer's grinding away on rendering something. Right now I'm leaning toward saving the college a little money for my workstation and going with the single processor model, but I really want to know if I'll regret it later.

Whatever we get, it will be a darned site better than going back and forth between my underpowered PC and my noisy PowerMac G4. I just want to make sure the investment is well-chosen.

So, PLEASE direct me to some benchmarks and tell us if these things look like they could be upgraded to eight cores later.

[fluidedge]

heatsink issues we think might prevent this.

However, we won't know for a while yet.

I'd say if in doubt, go for the 4 cores, if you're umming and aaahing about which is right, you probably don't need 8 cores. I won't.

[fluidedge]

remember not so long ago, 4 cores was insane performance. Even for Final Cut Studio. Apple haven't made anything significant like updates or new applications that *need* 8 cores.

If something takes 30 seconds to render rather than 20 seconds, will you really care?

[yesthisisapc]

heatsink issues we think might prevent this.

However, we won't know for a while yet.

I'd say if in doubt, go for the 4 cores, if you're umming and aaahing about which is right, you probably don't need 8 cores. I won't.

I need 8 cores for rendering projects, but at the same time I'm... very poor/cheap. That's the problem. To clarify, I do a lot of work in 3dsmax and Maya, both of which have very CPU intensive fluid dynamic systems in place for things like smoke, fire and liquid rendering. More cores is better, but being poor is an issue.

[fluidedge]

build yourself a Q6600 windows box. cheap. very powerful. and you can run 3DS max. You'd have to use bootcamp to run that anyway.

I assume you have licences for windows versions of maya and max anyway so i'd stick with windows. if you only plan on using win XP on the Mac Pro then i'd stick with dell/windows.

[yesthisisapc]

build yourself a Q6600 windows box. cheap. very powerful. and you can run 3DS max. You'd have to use bootcamp to run that anyway.

I assume you have licences for windows versions of maya and max anyway so i'd stick with windows. if you only plan on using win XP on the Mac Pro then i'd stick with dell/windows.

Except that the new penryn pros cost less (for the amount of power given), and my license for Maya is for OSX. It's far more cost effective, to a degree, to void the hell out of a Mac Pro warrantee.

[fluidedge]

i could build you a q6600 with 8GB RAM and 1TB of storage for less than the base MP. Way less.

But that is beside the point, you have a mac version of maya so you must stay with mac.

[yesthisisapc]

i could build you a q6600 with 8GB RAM and 1TB of storage for less than the base MP. Way less.

But that is beside the point, you have a mac version of maya so you must stay with mac.

See my revised post, for the power I get. Problem is that plugins like FumeFX are absolute HELL to work with.

--edit--

We've really veered off-topic though. I'm not the only one interested in the socket being depopulated or not.

[sinn.]

I went with the 4 core. I am also a 3D animation student. I am using the extra money I saved for a 2nd display, more ram and HD space. If I need to render something out, I will start it before I go to class or work. Go with 4 core and buy some extra stuff with the saved money.

[fluidedge]

3D students unite!!

I've seen/contributed to lots of theads on what spec 3D students should get and we always agree - 4 core.

I'm still in a quandry (especially after today) on whether to buy a mac pro or build myself a super spec hackintosh.

[dralbertqnixon]

Upgrading the processors isn't hard - you just need to be careful.

[hugodrax]

heatsink issues we think might prevent this.

However, we won't know for a while yet.

I'd say if in doubt, go for the 4 cores, if you're umming and aaahing about which is right, you probably don't need 8 cores. I won't.

I would differ, Save up a bit more and go for the 8 cores. Over the ownership of the machine it is not a big hike in cost but the extra cores pay off when doing lots of multitasking, as new enhancements arrive that will take advantage of the power and the longevity of the workstation(more usable years etc..)

If money is tight, save for a longer period of time and then buy it.

[yesthisisapc]

Upgrading the processors isn't hard - you just need to be careful.

Can you confirm this though? I'm pretty sure the G5 Powermacs had a depopulated socket. I know how to replace a CPU, and on the Mac Pros it's about as hard as blowing my nose, the question is whether I could toss a second CPU in there when I feel like it.

Okay, the main reason this would be cheaper for me, in any event, is because I can do things like buy a new CPU and more RAM at cost. What this means for RAM is that I get it for about half off and for CPUs I can get for, well, a heck of a lot cheaper. Let me spec out a basic system:

Processor: 2x 3.0GHz Quad Xeons
Memory: 16Gb FB-DIMMS (4x 4Gb)
Storage: 2x 500Gb (I have more external and internal drives than I know what to do with, the other two slots aren't really an issue)
Graphics: NVidia 8800GT (I'm not making a gaming rig obviously, but I do some real time stuff too)
Optical drives: 1x Superdrive
Wifi: Yes

From Apple, this would cost me $8,600, which is by no means a small chunk of change. However, if I can buy a single Quad system with 2Gb of RAM, I can upgrade it to those specs for an extra $1800 on top of the $3000 base. I essentially nearly cut the price in half, and that saves me a rather substantial sum of money. For people in my position, buying the full system directly from Apple is not a very cost effective idea.

This is why I want to know the status of the second socket.

[Norco]

Also another thing for the students to ponder, is that even though it costs an extra $400 for that 2nd processor, I think the resale value of the machine is going to be a lot better later down the road because even as new machines come out and new programs are released, 8-cores is still gonna kick ass for awhile.

[bobsbarricades]

I don't do a lot of video right now, I mainly write music in Logic and I think I would be fine with the 4 core option... but I remember when I was getting my Bachelors and they showed us After Effects and I almost failed because I had no idea dual core machines would take 8 hours to render my project and I'd rather not have that kind of wait..... ever really :)

I think it'd be great if we could upgrade the second slot later

[steelski]

If someone were to get the single core Pro. Would they be able to test the second socket by just moving the one CPU into it.????

[yesthisisapc]

If someone were to get the single core Pro. Would they be able to test the second socket by just moving the one CPU into it.????

Theoretically, yes. Though if the socket were fully depopulated, there just wouldn't be anywhere to stick the CPU XD

[mestevie]

If someone were to get the single core Pro. Would they be able to test the second socket by just moving the one CPU into it.????

I have been told by Apple over the phone that you cannot upgrade to a dual processor if you BTO a single proc Mac Pro.

However, I feel that this is a canned answer, and that the rep didnt *really* know or has been told to answer in this way because such an upgrade would be unspported by Apple.

In any case, look at the older Powermacs - you can now upgrade to dual CPU's from a single unit via third party.

I am in the same dilemma as you, and really want an definitive answer on this - its basically a waiting game until someone does it.....

[ash471]

I just got a mac pro with a single quad core. I had the same question all of you had and everyone on the internet seemed to be speculating one way or the other. However, everyone's "expert" advice based on their prior experience with Mac Pro is completely irrelevant since there were no single cpu Mac Pros until Harpertown. Thus, any upgrade prior to the new Mac Pro would have been a change to a totally different CPU, which is obviously complicated. What we are talking about with the Harpertown upgrade is simply going from 1 cpu to 2 cpu. It could be as simple a dropping in the second exact same processor if the board has the socket and heat sink. I called Apple and someone there told me "sure you can upgrade it later." I'm not sure whether the person I talked to has a technical understanding, but it was enough for me to buy the single CPU. (I probably wouldn't have paid for the second cpu version regardless). If you want me to look and see if my computer has the second socket and/or heat sink let me know where to look. Do you think I can open the box without voiding the warranty?
-Andrew

[mestevie]

Hi

As I have never owned a MAc pro I can't exlicitly explain how to peek at the motherboard and the processor socket(s).

However, i would assume its quite easy to open these babys up.

Interesting that you got that response from Apple, as I got a different answer, as mentioned above.

[twoodcc]

I just got a mac pro with a single quad core. I had the same question all of you had and everyone on the internet seemed to be speculating one way or the other. However, everyone's "expert" advice based on their prior experience with Mac Pro is completely irrelevant since there were no single cpu Mac Pros until Harpertown. Thus, any upgrade prior to the new Mac Pro would have been a change to a totally different CPU, which is obviously complicated. What we are talking about with the Harpertown upgrade is simply going from 1 cpu to 2 cpu. It could be as simple a dropping in the second exact same processor if the board has the socket and heat sink. I called Apple and someone there told me "sure you can upgrade it later." I'm not sure whether the person I talked to has a technical understanding, but it was enough for me to buy the single CPU. (I probably wouldn't have paid for the second cpu version regardless). If you want me to look and see if my computer has the second socket and/or heat sink let me know where to look. Do you think I can open the box without voiding the warranty?
-Andrew

have you opened the case at all?

i have the older mac pro, and it is very easy to open the case. and it does not void the warranty

[ash471]

have you opened the case at all?

i have the older mac pro, and it is very easy to open the case. and it does not void the warranty

Actually, I've only received the monitor and some peripherals so far. According to FedEx tracking I should get the rest tomorrow morning. I'll try and open it up tomorrow evening and post the results.

[ash471]

Hi

As I have never owned a MAc pro I can't exlicitly explain how to peek at the motherboard and the processor socket(s).

However, i would assume its quite easy to open these babys up.

Interesting that you got that response from Apple, as I got a different answer, as mentioned above.

Like I said above, I wouldn't put to much trust in the response I got from Apple.
The lady didn't look anything up she just said yes as if it would be no problem.

I plan on trying to open up the box tomorrow evening. In this case, I think a picture will be worth a thousand words.
-Andrew

[Roy]

I just got a mac pro with a single quad core. I had the same question all of you had and everyone on the internet seemed to be speculating one way or the other. However, everyone's "expert" advice based on their prior experience with Mac Pro is completely irrelevant since there were no single cpu Mac Pros until Harpertown. Thus, any upgrade prior to the new Mac Pro would have been a change to a totally different CPU, which is obviously complicated. What we are talking about with the Harpertown upgrade is simply going from 1 cpu to 2 cpu. It could be as simple a dropping in the second exact same processor if the board has the socket and heat sink. I called Apple and someone there told me "sure you can upgrade it later." I'm not sure whether the person I talked to has a technical understanding, but it was enough for me to buy the single CPU. (I probably wouldn't have paid for the second cpu version regardless). If you want me to look and see if my computer has the second socket and/or heat sink let me know where to look. Do you think I can open the box without voiding the warranty?
-Andrew

If you look at your Mac Pro User's Manual, you will find Apple even shows you how to take side panel off so that you can get to the inside of the case. Thus, if Apple shows you how to get into your Mac Pro case, then I don't believe it will void you warranty. (Chapter 3: Making Things Better. Installing memory, hard drives, PCI cards, replacing optical drives, etc)
http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmanuals.info.apple.com%2Fen%2FMac_Pro_Early_2008.pdf&images=yes

[Eidorian]

I just got a mac pro with a single quad core. I had the same question all of you had and everyone on the internet seemed to be speculating one way or the other. However, everyone's "expert" advice based on their prior experience with Mac Pro is completely irrelevant since there were no single cpu Mac Pros until Harpertown. Thus, any upgrade prior to the new Mac Pro would have been a change to a totally different CPU, which is obviously complicated. What we are talking about with the Harpertown upgrade is simply going from 1 cpu to 2 cpu. It could be as simple a dropping in the second exact same processor if the board has the socket and heat sink. I called Apple and someone there told me "sure you can upgrade it later." I'm not sure whether the person I talked to has a technical understanding, but it was enough for me to buy the single CPU. (I probably wouldn't have paid for the second cpu version regardless). If you want me to look and see if my computer has the second socket and/or heat sink let me know where to look. Do you think I can open the box without voiding the warranty?
-AndrewYou're not going to void the warranty of your Mac Pro by just opening it. I still wonder where users get this bizarre idea. If you do manage to follow the instructions in the manual to open the side panel please take pictures. Are are a lot of people waiting to see what the motherboard and processor sockets are like on the single processor Mac Pro.

[rockinrocker]

Yes! do that, it's really easy. and also, the plastic piece that covers the processor(s) is really easy to remove too.

here's a couple shots of the heat sink in mine:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/davidaltemeier/IMG_0697.jpg


http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/davidaltemeier/IMG_0700.jpg

[conancn]

Actually, I had a chat back a week ago with one of the online rep. I did ask this question specifically because i was interested in getting a 4core too. I can't remember the exact words but roughly the same as follow.

I want to purchase a single processor MP, and wonder if I can add the other one later.
Yes.
Should I consider the cooling system and any other related parts when I add the other processor?
(then the rep told me to hold, and about 3 min later)
No, anything's ready for the second processor.

That's about it. I don't know how sure the rep was, at least he went somewhere and checked i hope.

I prob go with 8core because I doubt the price of this E5462 Xeon processor will go down by 50% of its current price(add by apple now is $400, retail now is $700+. Never heard of price of Xeon drop 50%).

[Roy]

Actually, I had a chat back a week ago with one of the online rep. I did ask this question specifically because i was interested in getting a 4core too. I can't remember the exact words but roughly the same as follow.

I want to purchase a single processor MP, and wonder if I can add the other one later.
Yes.
Should I consider the cooling system and any other related parts when I add the other processor?
(then the rep told me to hold, and about 3 min later)
No, anything's ready for the second processor.

That's about it. I don't know how sure the rep was, at least he went somewhere and checked i hope.

I prob go with 8core because I doubt the price of this E5462 Xeon processor will go down by 50% of its current price(add by apple now is $400, retail now is $700+. Never heard of price of Xeon drop 50%).

Perhaps you are looking at a different Apple Store than I'm looking at, but mine says there is a $500 dollar difference in the 2:

One 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (quad-core) [Subtract $500]

[conancn]

Perhaps you are looking at a different Apple Store than I'm looking at, but mine says there is a $500 dollar difference in the 2:

One 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (quad-core) [Subtract $500]

yep, i'm looking at ADC, but whatever, it's not gonna drop that much i believe.

[sweedigel]

There's a second socket on the single-cpu model, but no heatsink on it.

[psymac]

I think the smart thing to do, if you are going the single processor route and upgrade later, is to upgrade in a couple of years. THen, not add another 2.8, but sell your single 2.8 and upgrade with a 3.2 or probably even faster by then processor.

[welshy1812]

There's a second socket on the single-cpu model, but no heatsink on it.

Do you have a single processor Mac Pro ?

Photos of the sockets if you do, please ! :)

I'm not ordering till I know I can upgrade down the line.

[sweedigel]

Do you have a single processor Mac Pro ?

Photos of the sockets if you do, please ! :)

I'm not ordering till I know I can upgrade down the line.
Yeah I do.

I'll retry to dissassemble my MP today. But removing the fan parts appear to be hard. I saw the second unused socket, but taking a photo will be difficult because there's not enough space to do it as long as the fan parts are not removed.

[welshy1812]

Yeah I do.

I'll retry to dissassemble my MP today. But removing the fan parts appear to be hard. I saw the second unused socket, but taking a photo will be difficult because there's not enough space to do it as long as the fan parts are not removed.


Thanks sweedigel, the effort is appreciated.

[sweedigel]

Anybody know how hell remove the front fans assembly ?? I removed the screw near the 1st hard drive bay, and then??
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9320/dsc04607yc2.th.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04607yc2.jpg)

[sweedigel]

Thanks sweedigel, the effort is appreciated.
Here you can see the free "cpu-a" socket, with the protection on it. The harpertown is in the "cpu-b" one.
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2003/dsc04617gp2.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04617gp2.jpg)

[welshy1812]

Here you can see the free "cpu-a" socket, with the protection on it. The harpertown is in the "cpu-b" one.


I have no idea what I'm looking at in the 2nd photo but I guess this is good news that there would appear to be 2 sockets, all we need now is confirmation that a cpu will work in the 2nd one !

[sweedigel]

You can see the free socket with the black protection, and the ZIF bar ;).

[4God]

This is good news. I just purchased a single cpu MacPro with hopes of being able to add a second one later. Might even ditch the 2.8 single and drop in a couple of 3.2's.

[welshy1812]

This is good news. I just purchased a single cpu MacPro with hopes of being able to add a second one later. Might even ditch the 2.8 single and drop in a couple of 3.2's.

Now that we know there is a 2nd socket, hopefully someone can confirm that it is possible to insert another cpu.

Thanks again for taking the time sweedigel.

[Smurf42]

Hey folks, quick question from a "McN00B"...

In the PC world when you have 2 CPU's they have to be "Stepped Matched", in other words they have to be a matched pair like a matched set of mic's or tubes. Does this apply to Macs also?

I have upgraded a few dual CPU PC's and finding a matching CPU with the same "stepping #" for the one installed was a huge pain!

[4God]

Hey folks, quick question from a "McN00B"...

In the PC world when you have 2 CPU's they have to be "Stepped Matched", in other words they have to be a matched pair like a matched set of mic's or tubes. Does this apply to Macs also?

I have upgraded a few dual CPU PC's and finding a matching CPU with the same "stepping #" for the one installed was a huge pain!

Mmmm..... good point. If that's the case then it looks like I'll be saving for those 3.2's.

[rockinrocker]

Hey folks, quick question from a "McN00B"...

In the PC world when you have 2 CPU's they have to be "Stepped Matched", in other words they have to be a matched pair like a matched set of mic's or tubes. Does this apply to Macs also?

I have upgraded a few dual CPU PC's and finding a matching CPU with the same "stepping #" for the one installed was a huge pain!

i'm not sure about this, but i believe i've heard people say that they do need to be a matching pair, which makes me think that upgrading a single quad would require selling the bto xeon in favor of 2 new ones....

i could be wrong though, anybody else wanna chime in?

[rockinrocker]

Anybody know how hell remove the front fans assembly ?? I removed the screw near the 1st hard drive bay, and then??
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9320/dsc04607yc2.th.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04607yc2.jpg)

you don't have to remove the fans to uncover the heatsinks. that plastic piece will snap right off of there (or at least it did on mine....) and you have to sort of lift it straight up so it can slide out between the sink and the fan assembly.

thanks for posting that! it'd be great to also get a shot with the sinks uncovered.

[sweedigel]

you don't have to remove the fans to uncover the heatsinks. that plastic piece will snap right off of there (or at least it did on mine....) and you have to sort of lift it straight up so it can slide out between the sink and the fan assembly.

thanks for posting that! it'd be great to also get a shot with the sinks uncovered.
There is no problem removing it, on the picture I had not pulled it out yet, but it's ok ;).
My problem is on both sides of the processor heatsink, no way to remove them :/ I'm stuck.

[4God]

I think I remember reading another thread describing loosening (not removing completely) the memory cage in order to get the cover off without hassle. But don't quote me on that.

[Pressure]

I think I remember reading another thread describing loosening (not removing completely) the memory cage in order to get the cover off without hassle. But don't quote me on that.

AnandTech (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=3) has an article regarding this :)

[mojopixel]

I think I remember reading another thread describing loosening (not removing completely) the memory cage in order to get the cover off without hassle. But don't quote me on that.

Ok let's stay on track, if you have 1 quadcore can you add another processor later???????????? :confused:

[rockinrocker]

Ok let's stay on track, if you have 1 quadcore can you add another processor later???????????? :confused:

that's what we're still trying to figure out, though it looks like you can.

[rockinrocker]

I think I remember reading another thread describing loosening (not removing completely) the memory cage in order to get the cover off without hassle. But don't quote me on that.

i didn't have to loosen anything to get the sink cover off mine. just delicately applied some upward pressure and it snapped right out quite easily.

[mojopixel]

AnandTech (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=3) has an article regarding this :)

hmmm, looks like you can, although you may need a screwdriver or two!

[4God]

hmmm, looks like you can, although you may need a screwdriver or two!

That was done with the previous version of the MacPro. We're waiting to see what can be done with the newly released version.

[psymac]

Still need to get that heatsink in the future. So, it might be better to get the dual and ebay it (as another thread suggests).

[Umbongo]

Still need to get that heatsink in the future. So, it might be better to get the dual and ebay it (as another thread suggests).

Froma short term financial standpoint that is definatly the best way, but the big issue is you invalidate you warranty.

[LorenK]

One thing to remember about the current processor cost (someone said $700) is that it won't cost that in the future when they replace it with something newer. The real issue is whether you can add another processor later, whether it is a pair or otherwise.

I know how Macs are big on paired memory, but can anyone tell me why? And why would the processors need to be a sequential pair?:confused: (The smiley says confused, but really just ignorant.)

[Jonny427]

One thing to remember about the current processor cost (someone said $700) is that it won't cost that in the future when they replace it with something newer. The real issue is whether you can add another processor later, whether it is a pair or otherwise.

I know how Macs are big on paired memory, but can anyone tell me why? And why would the processors need to be a sequential pair?:confused: (The smiley says confused, but really just ignorant.)

The memory must be installed in pairs because the mac pro requires at least dual channel memory. If you install four or more DIMMs, you can utilize four channel memory for about a 5-10% speed boost.

The processors must be the same speed for the same reason. If the computer sends 50% to processor A and 50% to processor B, it expects the output to come at the exact same time. Putting in one 2.8GHz and one 3.2GHz will lead to data arriving at different points in time.

[ash471]

If you look at your Mac Pro User's Manual, you will find Apple even shows you how to take side panel off so that you can get to the inside of the case. Thus, if Apple shows you how to get into your Mac Pro case, then I don't believe it will void you warranty. (Chapter 3: Making Things Better. Installing memory, hard drives, PCI cards, replacing optical drives, etc)
http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmanuals.info.apple.com%2Fen%2FMac_Pro_Early_2008.pdf&images=yes

Well, I opened up my mac pro with a single cpu and there definitely isn't a second heat sink (which would be expected). Apple did put in an aluminum spacer that takes the place of the second heat sink and unfortunately this placeholder covers up where the socket would be for the second CPU. The screws take a special screwdriver that I don't have so I can't take it off and look at it. So I don't have an answer. I'll ask an IT guy at work tomorrow if I can borrow the correct screwdriver. Maybe I'll have an answer tomorrow.

[SheriffParker]

I've contacted all the people I know at Apple (I work at a reseller) to try and find information, but as you may know, that's like trying to get blood from a stone.

OMG you mean you want to open your computer by yourself. :eek: Please step away and let an Apple Genius help you with that. :p

[ash471]

Actually, I've only received the monitor and some peripherals so far. According to FedEx tracking I should get the rest tomorrow morning. I'll try and open it up tomorrow evening and post the results.

By the way, anyone that is trying to get access to the cpus, there is a plastic cover that just pops off. No screws needed to see the heat sinks. I saw a post where someone removed the fan housing. Dude, it is way easier to just remove the gray cover immediately to the right of the fan.

[sweedigel]

By the way, anyone that is trying to get access to the cpus, there is a plastic cover that just pops off. No screws needed to see the heat sinks. I saw a post where someone removed the fan housing. Dude, it is way easier to just remove the gray cover immediately to the right of the fan.to illustrate... http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9099/dsc04609cd7.th.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04609cd7.jpg)

[psymac]

Can anyone with a single cpu Mac Pro run some benchmarks, say Xbench and/or Geekbench2? Interested in seeing how these compare to the duals and the older quads.

[4God]

Can anyone with a single cpu Mac Pro run some benchmarks, say Xbench and/or Geekbench2? Interested in seeing how these compare to the duals and the older quads.

I'll post some in a few hours. My MacPro is on the FedEx truck for delivery. This will be the longest couple of hours of my life.....

[rockinrocker]

to illustrate... http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9099/dsc04609cd7.th.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04609cd7.jpg)

thanks for posting that.

i wonder, can you see under that spacer to be able to tell if there's anything attached directly to the socket? like something that would get in the way of installing a 2nd xeon?

[Eidorian]

to illustrate... http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9099/dsc04609cd7.th.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04609cd7.jpg)May I have permission to use this picture if I make a guide for the single processor Mac Pro? If it's yours that is.

[sweedigel]

i wonder, can you see under that spacer to be able to tell if there's anything attached directly to the socket? like something that would get in the way of installing a 2nd xeon?Directly on the socket, no I don't think. There is the socket with the pins protection, and the spacer which is screwed to the motherboard like the heatsink.

May I have permission to use this picture if I make a guide for the single processor Mac Pro? If it's yours that is.It's mine, sure you can use it.

[4God]

Can anyone with a single cpu Mac Pro run some benchmarks, say Xbench and/or Geekbench2? Interested in seeing how these compare to the duals and the older quads.

Geekbench2 (32bit) total score of 5072. That was with 2 gigs of ram, my other 4 gigs arrive thursday and I'll do another test then.

I'll buy a serial to do the 64 bit version later today.

EDIT: XBench score: 179.67, again that's with only 2 gigs of ram. The other 4 gigs might increase the total score slightly.

[mojopixel]

ok, so has anyone found out a definite answer? Can the single processor MacPro be upgraded at a later date to the dual processor?

[ziwi]

Geekbench2 (32bit) total score of 5072. That was with 2 gigs of ram, my other 4 gigs arrive thursday and I'll do another test then.

I'll buy a serial to do the 64 bit version later today.

EDIT: XBench score: 179.67, again that's with only 2 gigs of ram. The other 4 gigs might increase the total score slightly.

How does that compare with the previous gen dual quads? I would be curious to see if a previous dual 2.66 scores better.

[Jonny427]

ok, so has anyone found out a definite answer? Can the single processor MacPro be upgraded at a later date to the dual processor?

sweedigel appears to be the one who will find out first :)

[yesthisisapc]

How does that compare with the previous gen dual quads? I would be curious to see if a previous dual 2.66 scores better.

According to Mactracker, the geekbench scores on the duals fell as this:

2.0: 3894
2.66: 5014
3.0: 5565

[iToaster]

I don't see why not. I'd be a waste to simply buy a whole bunch of Mobos for another model.

[caeneal]

those scores seem decent. I still wish someone could confirm this so I could buy the single-quad with peace of mind. I'm probably forced to by my budget, but it would at least make me feel a bit better.

[frick]

Has anyone gotten a definitive answer to the OP's question yet? It looks like the 4-core Mac Pro's ship without the second heatsink, but is the socket still intact?

[4God]

Wow, can't answer the second cpu question but adding the other 4 gigs of RAM for a total of 6 gigs took my Geekbench score from 5072 to 5492. :D
Gonna run XBench and Cinebench next.

[schreck]

Wow, can't answer the second cpu question but adding the other 4 gigs of RAM for a total of 6 gigs took my Geekbench score from 5072 to 5492. :D
Gonna run XBench and Cinebench next.

I apologize for also not being able to answer the question, but I'm glad to hear that! I can't wait to get mine ordered and have it here. Sounds like it really makes the beast scream.

Funny how so many were worrying about the whole six gig configuration. Clearly, it'll still perform.

[lyew]

BUt where would one get a heatsink and fan for the second CPU? If I got the box retail set that comes with a heatsink, would that fit in the chassis?

[fluidedge]

i don't understand why you couldn't use something like an arctic 7 pro cooler. It's not as if the Xeons need liquid cooling, they need a good fan setup sure, but for everyone to keep saying you need this EXACT heatsink or the box will blow up into a million bits and you'll end up crying is just wrong i feel.

[rockinrocker]

I apologize for also not being able to answer the question, but I'm glad to hear that! I can't wait to get mine ordered and have it here. Sounds like it really makes the beast scream.

Funny how so many were worrying about the whole six gig configuration. Clearly, it'll still perform.

yeah, that's what i'm running (1x1 and 2x2) and it's working great....

[4God]

Just got my upgraded replacement machine with 8 cores instead of 4 a couple of days ago and ran Geekbench2 again and this time got a score of 8100. :D

[newtech]

To maintain the proper ducted airflow one must use the Apple heat sink. Also Apple hardware uses all metric screws so PC sinks with their SAE screws dont fit properly anyway. As well as PC sinks do not normally have the thermal sensor that the Appple sink does.

[mac2maverick]

I would differ, Save up a bit more and go for the 8 cores. Over the ownership of the machine it is not a big hike in cost but the extra cores pay off when doing lots of multitasking, as new enhancements arrive that will take advantage of the power and the longevity of the workstation(more usable years etc..)

If money is tight, save for a longer period of time and then buy it.

Couldn't a person get a single for now and then wait for a year or two and upgrade to two quads? How many people think the price would have dropped by $200-$300 by then?

[mac2maverick]

BUt where would one get a heatsink and fan for the second CPU? If I got the box retail set that comes with a heatsink, would that fit in the chassis?

Sure, most people would buy from a third party instead of Apple to upgrade the single 2.8 to two 2.8's, but won't Apple be selling a 'kit' for just such an upgrade in the future? There's enough people out there who are buying the single 2.8 so why wouldn't Apple - and other sellers for that matter - put together some kind of upgrade kit?

I'm going to get the single and worry about it later, although I'm still curious if this is a possibility. Anyone phone Apple and say they have a single 2.8 and want to upgrade to a dual??

I can't find a gaming comparison for the single and the double. Anyone??

[randyhudson]

If the computer sends 50% to processor A and 50% to processor B, it expects the output to come at the exact same time. Putting in one 2.8GHz and one 3.2GHz will lead to data arriving at different points in time.

50% of what? Where will data be arriving at different times?

Both processors use the same 1600MHz front-side bus speed. Even if you have two matched processors, they could be running at different speeds, depending on demand.

[runplaysleeprun]

has anyone figured this out yet?

[Roy]

has anyone figured this out yet?

To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "What is the meaning of this?" A lot has been talked about in the posts above, so what "this" are you talking about?

[SDDave2007]

If someone were to get the single core Pro. Would they be able to test the second socket by just moving the one CPU into it.????

I do not believe that would work. On my MacPro [pre'08 4core], there is a Systems Pref panel to deactivate various processors, EXCEPT for Socket #1, so even if you removed the chip from Socket #1 and inserted it into Socket #2, the OS will STILL look for a primary chip in Socket #1 [since that cannot be deactivated].... So I'd bet either the machine would croak, or boot with tons of errors.

[benpatient]

no, they don't run at different speeds depending on demand. the 2.8 runs at 2.8ghz all the time, and the 3.2 runs at 3.2 ghz all the time. volume may increase. bandwidth saturation may increase. but speed does not.

xeon processors don't "ramp down" like laptop processors. I have never seen a motherboard that allowed two processors to run at two different speeds, and I'd be very surprised if Apple had this built into the mac pro motherboard when they aren't ever going to offer an upgrade path anyway. Apple has never offered a CPU upgrade and there's no reason to think they will start now...we can barely get them to offer a graphics card upgrade!

I don't think matched pairs will be necessary in the strictest sense, but equally yoked pairs will be necessary. If one chip is faster than the other, it will probably be throttled-down to match the slower processor, or the machine just won't boot to begin with, which is the most likely scenario.

Another possibility is that the mobo may read the speed from one chip and apply it to the other as well, causing you to overclock a slower chip inadvertently. Probably way too much for stability, too.

Although intel's processors are usually clock-locked, so that wouldn't happen unless the mac pro mobo overrides the lock. I doubt it does.

I am actually more interested in what happens if you take an 8-core mac pro and pull out one of the processors...as someone mentioned, they are going for 700+ dollars right now...if the machine keeps working, and you don't need 8 cores yet, you could take advantage of the situation.

I wonder about that.

[krye]

Don't sell yourself short now by going single proc. A year from now you'll be regretting it. Getting the 2nd processor later might not be a big deal. The hardest part is going to be getting your hands on the Apple heatsink. The $2-300 you spend later on isn't going to be worth the few hundred you save now. I'd go 8 core now and future proof the machine that much longer.

Also, the whole point of a Mac Pro is the dual-processor performance. If you're going to go single proc, then it's kind of a waste. I know it's a stretch, but you basically have an iMac with a fancy video card and more RAM. OK, well, maybe not, but you know what I mean.

[ash471]

Don't sell yourself short now by going single proc. ....
Also, the whole point of a Mac Pro is the dual-processor performance.

Unless you plan on rendering video on a regular basis, 8 core machine is overkill. The issue with two or one processors is a case of wanting to future proof something that can't be future proofed. I got the single processor machine and I don't regret it one bit. I don't edit videos on regular basis and the small amount of video editing I have done with the single CPU machine has been painless.
Interestingly, my work just got me the best and greatest dell machine (it has Windows Vista). I smile every time it breaks and the IT guys have to fix it. They ask, "why the smile"? My response is, "every time this piece of s**t, over-priced PC breaks, it just confirms my good decision to buy a Mac Pro for my home computer." In 5 years if I feel bad because I don't have 8 cores, I'll buy the best Windows system that money can buy in 2013 and within weeks I'll be running back to my "clunker" single CPU Mac Pro.

[JeffDM]

Hi

As I have never owned a MAc pro I can't exlicitly explain how to peek at the motherboard and the processor socket(s).

However, i would assume its quite easy to open these babys up.

It's more than just popping the side panel off because of how they set up the housing. Getting to the CPUs is about as hard as it is in the mini.

[zmttoxics]

I posted this on EhMac, but I thought you guys could help too.

I am looking to buy a new mac pro. I know you can buy it with only a single quad cpu in it. My question is, do they still provide the heat sink and get up for when I want to put a second cpu in? Or is it just an empty socket with nothing to cover it? I have been looking to see if you can buy a kit or something separately with no luck.

I know that by swapping cpus I void the warranty, but if I get it cheap enough with 1 cpu I might not get the warranty.

[zmttoxics]

Thanks for the pointer!

For the next guy to read this, the answer is:
-Yes, you can
-No, it does not come with the second heat sink for it
-Yes you can buy them from a third party company.

Is it worth it?
-Reasonable speads
-Cheaper then an 8core system

But in the end, still cheaper to get a previous gen dual duo (last gen quad) refurb then a brand new quad.

[rockinrocker]

as somebody already mentioned, the only definitive answer we've seen about this issue is that getting ahold of the proper heat sink could be an issue.

it seems like everything else is pretty much speculation at this point. nobody seems to have actually tried it.

[dchao]

as somebody already mentioned, the only definitive answer we've seen about this issue is that getting ahold of the proper heat sink could be an issue.
It's not that hard. The part you need is the Heatsink Kit (Part No: 076-1233). You can get it from MacPalace.com

[Immy]

sorry to revive a old thread did any one manage to get to the bottom of this issue and find out if you are able to do this. add a second processor later.

[grue]

I haven't personally tried it, but I can definitively tell you this:

There is only ONE part number for the 2008 Mac Pro logic board. Take that as you will.

[nanofrog]

Yes, a second processor can be added to a Mac Pro ordered with only one.
Heatsink (http://macpalace.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2782)
E5462 Xeon Processor (http://www.buy.com/prod/xeon-e5462-qc-lga771-2-80-12mb-chip1600mhz-tray/q/loc/101/206215271.html) (2.8GHz Quad Core)

Expensive to do so however.
$102.60 for heatsink + $8.33 s/h est. ground
$822.99 for E5462 + free s/h

Works out to ~$934USD.

[Immy]

works out cheaper just to take the normal two processor from apple then anyone now when the new apple mac pro is due.

[schnee]

Don't sell yourself short now by going single proc. A year from now you'll be regretting it. Getting the 2nd processor later might not be a big deal. The hardest part is going to be getting your hands on the Apple heatsink. The $2-300 you spend later on isn't going to be worth the few hundred you save now. I'd go 8 core now and future proof the machine that much longer.

Also, the whole point of a Mac Pro is the dual-processor performance. If you're going to go single proc, then it's kind of a waste. I know it's a stretch, but you basically have an iMac with a fancy video card and more RAM. OK, well, maybe not, but you know what I mean.

Counterpoint:

I'm a graphic professional, working for a Fortune 50, doing hard-core CS3 design work with huge files and the only time I've used all four cores simultaneously to any degree was by burning a DVD with Handbrake in the background while working. Regular design use... the rig never broke a sweat.

Unless you're doing 3d rendering for 8 hours at a stretch, or doing HD video editing using real-time tools (like Motion), you won't use the 8 cores at all. Your machine won't be faster. That'll be $500 sunk in hardware that won't get you anything back.

And, it won't be 'futureproof' at all, because the people who really need 8 cores will have already moved on to the next new bad-ass machine and won't be buying this one. 8 cores just means it multi-tasks without slowing down, but the top speed will still be pokey compared to what's coming up later.

Also, it's not $2-300 later, it's more like $900.

:-)