Let me be the first to say that it's time

[akadmon]

for someone new at the helm. (No, I won't mention any names, but you all know who I'm talking about.) This is getting ridiculous... :mad:

[connectingrodd4]

for someone new at the helm. (No, I won't mention any names, but you all know who I'm talking about.) This is getting ridiculous... :mad:

Steve Jobs isn't stupid, he's done some great things for apple but you might be right the balding turtle neck wearing egomaniac might have out lived his usefulness.

[benlee]

Why would you say this without giving any reason for doing so?

I'm interested in knowing your reasoning.

[Decrepit]

for someone new at the helm. (No, I won't mention any names, but you all know who I'm talking about.) This is getting ridiculous... :mad:

A CEO has one job, and that is to return value to its shareholders.

Apple hasn't announced a dividend, but since they continually invest in themselves and develop new technologies, that can be forgiven. For a time.

Until shareholders lose faith in his ability to keep the company profitable, he's going to be fine.

[CashGap]

Yeah, we've gotten to the point that a few "home runs" per year for the company (in an industry where two or three home runs per decade is the norm) isn't enough. We want several home runs per year IN OUR SPECIFIC NICHE AREA or it's off with his head.

Hopefully the shareholders are not so short-sighted!

[akadmon]

Yeah, we've gotten to the point that a few "home runs" per year for the company (in an industry where two or three home runs per decade is the norm) isn't enough. We want several home runs per year IN OUR SPECIFIC NICHE AREA or it's off with his head.

Hopefully the shareholders are not so short-sighted!

I don't own any Apple stock (yeah, I know -- stupid), and I sure won't be buying any anytime soon. Therefore I speak purely as a potential buyer of Apple products.

Between the late delivery of Leopard (shall I mention the bugs, the unfulfilled promises, "secret features", yada yada yada) , the stiff-arm treatment given to the loyal prosumers (look at the droves of Mac Pro owners stuck with their smoldering ATI 1900 XTs), the arrogant pricing of most products (shall I mention the iPhone, or the fact that I can get a Dell XPS 1530 for more than $500 less than 15" MBP that has lesser specs), and ego-trip projects like the new MBA ("world's thinnest laptop")... I say the man's lost it.

If you don't think that this is going to catch up with Apple's bottom line eventually, you're a bigger fool than I.

[IJ Reilly]

Yeah, we've gotten to the point that a few "home runs" per year for the company (in an industry where two or three home runs per decade is the norm) isn't enough. We want several home runs per year IN OUR SPECIFIC NICHE AREA or it's off with his head.

Hopefully the shareholders are not so short-sighted!

Well said.

[AlBDamned]

I don't own any Apple stock (yeah, I know -- stupid), and I sure won't be buying any anytime soon. Therefore I speak purely as a potential buyer of Apple products.

Between the late delivery of Leopard (shall I mention the bugs, the unfulfilled promises, "secret features", yada yada yada) , the stiff-arm treatment given to the loyal prosumers (look at the droves of Mac Pro owners stuck with their smoldering ATI 1900 XTs), the arrogant pricing of most products (shall I mention the iPhone, or the fact that I can get a Dell XPS 1530 for more than $500 less than 15" MBP that has lesser specs), and ego-trip projects like the new MBA ("world's thinnest laptop")... I say the man's lost it.

If you don't think that this is going to catch up with Apple's bottom line eventually, you're a bigger fool than I.

Given the success of all of the products listed above (MBA not withstanding, obviously as it's not out yet), I don't know how you can say that with a straight face.

The Mac Pro is the only one that I think hasn't had enough work. The rest of the products have been huge for Apple. It's computer/OS market share is up and several million people clearly don't think the iPhone is priced "arrogantly" and are willing to pay for it - and that's Apple's first phone, incidentally. Leopard is also the fastest selling Mac OS ever.

And have you seen Apple's stock price recently? It hit $200. It's back down now but so are most stocks, and $170 is still incredible.

Your points are made as an opinion. Fair enough. But to say Jobs is no longer doing well is a statement that's easily dismissed as a poorly composed opinion when you look at the business Apple is doing at the moment (not to mention the epic amount of press coverage it has these days).

[akadmon]

Given the success of all of the products listed above (MBA not withstanding, obviously as it's not out yet), I don't know how you can say that with a straight face.

The Mac Pro is the only one that I think hasn't had enough work. The rest of the products have been huge for Apple. It's computer/OS market share is up and several million people clearly don't think the iPhone is priced "arrogantly" and are willing to pay for it - and that's Apple's first phone, incidentally. Leopard is also the fastest selling Mac OS ever.

And have you seen Apple's stock price recently? It hit $200. It's back down now but so are most stocks, and $170 is still incredible.

Your points are made as an opinion. Fair enough. But to say Jobs is no longer doing well is a statement that's easily dismissed as a poorly composed opinion when you look at the business Apple is doing at the moment (not to mention the epic amount of press coverage it has these days).

Shall we revisit this a year from today?

I've given Apple well of 3G over the last 18 months. Given what's been happening lately, I don't think there will be a repeat in the same time frame.

[pianoman]

i think the greater issue - at least in forums such as these - is people's expectations that Apple deliver what they want and not necessarily what's practical or cost effective.

[CalBoy]

for someone new at the helm. (No, I won't mention any names, but you all know who I'm talking about.) This is getting ridiculous... :mad:

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you not like about his performance on the job? Before you're read to take off his head, can we at least see some reasoning behind this?

The way I see it, from an investor point of view, Jobs has broadened appeal for Apple's primary business (Mac computers), has introduced several consumer products that are stylish, appealing, desirable, and have healthy profit margins.

To top all that off, Jobs has been planning his every move with foresight (read the Mac Rumors article about how the iPhone began its life all the way back in 2003).

Considering that as a CEO, he has turned the one time black sheep of tech stocks into the rising star of modern tech companies, I don't see a single reason to get rid of him at this point.

[eddietr]

I don't own any Apple stock (yeah, I know -- stupid), and I sure won't be buying any anytime soon. Therefore I speak purely as a potential buyer of Apple products.

Between the late delivery of Leopard (shall I mention the bugs, the unfulfilled promises, "secret features", yada yada yada) , the stiff-arm treatment given to the loyal prosumers (look at the droves of Mac Pro owners stuck with their smoldering ATI 1900 XTs), the arrogant pricing of most products (shall I mention the iPhone, or the fact that I can get a Dell XPS 1530 for more than $500 less than 15" MBP that has lesser specs), and ego-trip projects like the new MBA ("world's thinnest laptop")... I say the man's lost it.

If you don't think that this is going to catch up with Apple's bottom line eventually, you're a bigger fool than I.

Umm, look at the stock price at the last Macworld (not to mention when Jobs came back) and then look at it today.

If that's the definition of a CEO "losing it", then please we need to find more men and women who have "lost it" to run the other companies I've invested in.

[AlBDamned]

Shall we revisit this a year from today?

I've given Apple well of 3G over the last 18 months. Given what's been happening lately, I don't think there will be a repeat in the same time frame.

Can you clarify what you mean by, "what's been happening lately"? And by 3G do you mean $3k? With all due respect that's not a huge amount.

And given that several of Apple's revenue from long-term investments such as the iPhone are set over two years (so that's locked in revenue), plus increased revenue that comes with increased market share and more people buying Apple products, and more markets yet to receive iPhone v1, then iPhone v2, I'd say the outlook is pretty good.

It's impossible at this stage to say what damage the economic problems may do, but that will affect pretty much every business to some degree.

[monke]

Let me be the first to say this:

Steve doesn't come up with half the ideas. His teams do. He merely presents them as any CEO would. :rolleyes:

[CashGap]

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you not like about his performance on the job? Before you're read to take off his head, can we at least see some reasoning behind this?


I can guess... "unlocked iPhone", "Prosumer Tower", "OSX on Generic Hardware".

The first would have made the iPhone impossible to launch. The second would merely lower earnings, but dramatically. The third would quickly kill the company. But these three are often at the heart of the "off with Jobs' head" comments.

[CalBoy]

Let me be the first to say this:

Steve doesn't come up with half the ideas. His teams do. He merely presents them as any CEO would. :rolleyes:

I would agree with you for the most part, but Jobs does have his own ideas and he often pushes for them. The iPhone was largely the result of him wanting an iPod built into a phone all the way back in 2003 (check the MR front page story on this).

Granted he isn't coming up with every idea on his own, but Jobs does very much plan Apple's moves very carefully. He is known for his demanding personality and his unrelenting desire for "perfection" (even if QA doesn't come up to par :rolleyes:).

Make no mistake, Jobs is very much at the heart of most of Apple's projects.
I can guess... "unlocked iPhone", "Prosumer Tower", "OSX on Generic Hardware".

The first would have made the iPhone impossible to launch. The second would merely lower earnings, but dramatically. The third would quickly kill the company. But these three are often at the heart of the "off with Jobs' head" comments.

In other words, all the things that consumers want, but investors hate.
I had a feeling something like that was the root of all of this. ;) :p

[Rodimus Prime]

I can guess... "unlocked iPhone", "Prosumer Tower", "OSX on Generic Hardware".

The first would have made the iPhone impossible to launch. The second would merely lower earnings, but dramatically. The third would quickly kill the company. But these three are often at the heart of the "off with Jobs' head" comments.

of that list the lack of a prosumer tower is the biggest thing that will ever keep me from touching a mac desktop and I will not recommend them until they have one.

The gap between the iMac and Mac Pro power wise is huge. The iMac does not have enough power for a lot of people and most of those people a Power mac is massive over kill.
The iMac for me and a lot of people fails me to my needs and the Power mac is just over kill. When I can build/buy a PC desktop for about 1/2 the price that meets my needs than a mac that is saying something. And before some one trying to hit me with the power comparison read it again I said meet my needs. The iMac is out and I have to pay extra to get a Power mac up to specs I need and I am still paying for a lot of extra bloat I do not need and is over kill.

The Prosermer mac would fill this huge void that you can drive a Mactruck though. Every year the void gets larger.

[imac/cheese]

...the arrogant pricing of most products (shall I mention the iPhone, or the fact that I can get a Dell XPS 1530 for more than $500 less than 15" MBP that has lesser specs), ...

What is "arrogant pricing"? Prices are set based on what the company has to get to recoup its costs and what the company believes it can get to make a profit.

[Stampyhead]

Why would you say this without giving any reason for doing so?

I'm interested in knowing your reasoning.

Some people are just complainers and won't ever be happy, no matter what happens. Perhaps they were indulged and spoiled as children, I don't know. If Jesus Christ himself came down and took over as CEO of Apple I'm sure this guy would still find something to complain about. Certainly Steve Jobs has made mistakes, he's human. Apple is not infallible, despite what many people want to believe. But I think Mr. Jobs is doing an excellent job of transforming Apple into a world class company that consistently makes the public sit up and take notice. Now if Ken Lay were CEO, then maybe you'd have reason to complain. But so far I can't see any reason why Mr. Jobs should be replaced. If you have some information that I do not, please enlighten me. But if you're just pissed because you have to pay $20 to upgrade your iPod touch then your argument doesn't hold very much water.

[IJ Reilly]

This is one of the oddest discussions I've seen about Apple in some time. The speculation usually runs towards how Apple would recover from the potential loss of Steve Jobs at the helm, the general consensus being that Jobs currently appears to be irreplaceable. A weird comment I read in another thread bemoaned the fact that most of the MWSF new product rumors turned out be true. I feel like I've fallen down the rabbit hole. Please direct me to the Queen of Hearts. I feel certain she will make more sense than what I've been hearing lately.

[Mord]

So you think steve jobs should be ousted after turning apple from a near dead wreck into the *hugely* successful company it is today just because you're pissy about a couple of things?

lame

[AlBDamned]

I read in another thread bemoaned the fact that most of the MWSF new product rumors turned out be true. I feel like I've fallen down the rabbit hole. Please direct me to the Queen of Hearts. I feel certain she will make more sense than what I've been hearing lately.

Ain't that the *********g truth. I'm pretty disgusted with the quality of commentary and "opinion" on this year's MacWorld. I'm not saying this in fanboy mode, "Steve can do now wrong" etc *********. i don't believe that: the MacBook Air is not of remote interest to me, and neither are most things announced yesterday.

But the garbage observations and comments that have spewed forth are really demonstrating internet discussion and the people within at their very, very worst. :rolleyes:

Oh yes, one more thing: "A mac truck sized hole in the lineup for a prosumer tower"...

Do you pay any attention to sales figures for laptops versus desktops? The latter is now coming in (or about to be shifted to) second place and you're one of the minority who builds their own computers. So go figure.

[Rodimus Prime]

So you think steve jobs should be ousted after turning apple from a near dead wreck into the *hugely* successful company it is today just because you're pissy about a couple of things?

lame

lets also not forget that in the past Jobs being fired from apple is what saved the company. Even Jobs admits he should of been fired when he was in the the past.

While now he turned it around. I am among the group who think it is time for him to past the touch on to some one else. Not be forcibly remove but I think he should choose to step down and let some one else run the company.

[IJ Reilly]

Apple does need to groom a successor to Jobs, but only because it's good and wise business, not because Jobs has suddenly become a liability.

[zap2]

What? Jobs brought Apple back from the edge, has brought Apple to its highest position in the market in YEARS!

To get rid of Job would be the WORST thing Apple could do.

[AlBDamned]

I think he should choose to step down and let some one else run the company.

Why?

What is it that Jobs has done that makes you think this? Honestly, are you completely and utterly devoid of common sense, or any grasp on reality, business and how the world works? Maybe you're just being very sarcastic?

I hope so...

[davidnaquino]

This is a valid discussion...

Do I respect him? Yes.
Do I believe he has had a tremendous impact on the industry? Yes.

Steve has been a great CEO for Apple because he's not conventional. He focusses on end-user experience first, and figures out what to sell later. Most companies work in the opposite way. Steve brings a distinct vision and desire to capture essence in products.

Bottom line is, he does do some strange things... I think more important than ousting him is who would fill his shoes... Steve has built huge star power and that really has accounted for a lot of Apple's success.

And at the end of the day, Apple will need a new CEO someday soon. I'm more worried about Disney, they need him desperately.

[pr5owner]

So you think steve jobs should be ousted after turning apple from a near dead wreck into the *hugely* successful company it is today just because you're pissy about a couple of things?

lame

steve jobs was only able to make it a successfuly company by screwing his customers out of their money and making his share holders happy.

[Mord]

lets also not forget that in the past Jobs being fired from apple is what saved the company. Even Jobs admits he should of been fired when he was in the the past.

While now he turned it around. I am among the group who think it is time for him to past the touch on to some one else. Not be forcibly remove but I think he should choose to step down and let some one else run the company.

Jobs learnt allot in his time away from the company and just because it was good for him to be fired before does not mean him leaving now would be a good thing, the only suitable candidate in my mind to take over is Jonathan Ives and frankly he's currently doing what he does best: design.

All tech companies have recalls, all tech companies release the odd dodgy product, at the end of the day everything is contracted to Chinese manufacturers and apple uses pretty good ones (ASUStek and Foxconn to my knowledge). Apple gets all the attention because a dell tower with a common fault is not news, but a macbook with a case that's prone to staining is because apple is currently in vogue and that works both ways for them. I can't tell you the number of people i know who thought that their creative ipod clone would be more reliable than an ipod only to find it failed in one way or another within the year.

CEO is not a position that there are turns to take, this is not a playground game this is buissness, if you honestly think that apple will do better with someone else at the helm then I'd love to hear your reasoning but at the rate apple's sales are increasing I'm not sure they could handle any significant acceleration of growth.

steve jobs was only able to make it a successfuly company by screwing his customers out of their money and making his share holders happy.

It's called capitalism.

[arkitect]

steve jobs was only able to make it a successfuly company by screwing his customers out of their money and making his share holders happy.

Don't be daft.
"screwing his customers out of their money" implies Apple is some kind of dodgy fly-by-night operation…
How on earth have we been "screwed" out of our money? I for one have always paid willingly for Apple hardware and software. No one forced me to… least of all Steve Jobs. :rolleyes:

[IJ Reilly]

It's called capitalism.

Dirty capitalist ∫å߆å®∂s!

[Mord]

Dirty capitalist ∫å߆å®∂s!

Hey, I think it's the worst system..... except for all the others of course.

[snickelfritz]

for someone new at the helm. (No, I won't mention any names, but you all know who I'm talking about.) This is getting ridiculous... :mad:

This is a ridiculous assertion.
SJ brought Apple back into the mainstream and to it's current position as one of the top innovators in the industry.
Grow up.

[aquajet]

steve jobs was only able to make it a successfuly company by screwing his customers out of their money and making his share holders happy.

I buy Apple products because I think they're the best to fill my needs. If some other company comes along and offers something better, I will certainly consider it.

Clearly I must be out of my mind. I guess I never realized that I have no clue what I'm doing or talking about. Thanks for letting me know.

[GimmeSlack12]

Shall we revisit this a year from today?

I've given Apple well of 3G over the last 18 months. Given what's been happening lately, I don't think there will be a repeat in the same time frame.

What's with this need for immediate gratification? Let's revisit this in a year and discuss the rumors of upcoming products then. It's as if you have nothing to talk about if Apple super-hype isn't the topic.

And how does Apple know you've spent $3,000 in the last year? Who do you think you are?

[netdog]

for someone new at the helm. (No, I won't mention any names, but you all know who I'm talking about.) This is getting ridiculous... :mad:

Oh yeah. Let's put you in charge.

[GimmeSlack12]

Oh, and I'll continue on by saying that 2008 is going to be a HUGE year for Apple. Just Massive.

[OllyW]

steve jobs was only able to make it a successfuly company by screwing his customers out of their money and making his share holders happy.

So basically, he is doing his job brilliantly :rolleyes:

[maxrobertson]

This is one of the oddest discussions I've seen about Apple in some time. The speculation usually runs towards how Apple would recover from the potential loss of Steve Jobs at the helm, the general consensus being that Jobs currently appears to be irreplaceable. A weird comment I read in another thread bemoaned the fact that most of the MWSF new product rumors turned out be true. I feel like I've fallen down the rabbit hole. Please direct me to the Queen of Hearts. I feel certain she will make more sense than what I've been hearing lately.

I know! It's bizarre. People are whining about the stupidest things. Some of them wanted more at MWSF. What more could the want? I was shocked to see that that many new things were released. It was amazing, really.

[bartelby]

for someone new at the helm. (No, I won't mention any names, but you all know who I'm talking about.) This is getting ridiculous... :mad:

Do you remember the state Apple was in before The Second Coming?

[AlBDamned]

I was shocked to see that that many new things were released. It was amazing, really.

Yeah me too. Makes this person's argument all the more bewildering.

[Rodimus Prime]

Why?

What is it that Jobs has done that makes you think this? Honestly, are you completely and utterly devoid of common sense, or any grasp on reality, business and how the world works? Maybe you're just being very sarcastic?

I hope so...

this is kind of an example of a reason why I think it is time for him to set down. The Job idol worship is getting beyond god alful. To many apple fans treat what he says as the word of God.

He has done great things for the company but I think he needs to pass the touch on before it is forced to be passed (death, sickness ect) and before passing it will cause a lot of harm. Right now he has the time pass it and announce it with out causing a huge problem. Things are booming for the company and that is when it is the best time to pass. Much easier for some one to take over when things are going great.

[AlBDamned]

this is kind of an example of a reason why I think it is time for him to set down. The Job idol worship is getting beyond god alful. To many apple fans treat what he says as the word of God.

Again, this is not idol worship, this is looking at it from a business perspective. The company is on the up. Still. It hasn't peaked, it hasn't leveled out. There's plenty left for Jobs to do before he goes. And I'd love to see the damage to Apple's stock price if he left today.


He has done great things for the company but I think he needs to pass the touch on before it is forced to be passed (death, sickness ect) and before passing it will cause a lot of harm. Right now he has the time pass it and announce it with out causing a huge problem. Things are booming for the company and that is when it is the best time to pass. Much easier for some one to take over when things are going great.

What you say is correct from one perspective; every company needs a long-term plan and it's good to go out on a high. But who's the successor, exactly, that you have in mind? And why, at mid-50s, should Jobs be thinking about handing over the company that has been his life and that he's resurrected from near-failure.

It's a lot harder than waking up one day and saying, "you know what, here you go Phil (Schiller)."

Plus, the original point of this thread was how bad Jobs is now doing for Apple, which is clearly B/S when you examine the figures.

P.S. I think the more correct expression is "pass the torch" unless you're playing some random drinking game...

[snickelfritz]

The contrasting PR between Jobs and Gates is interesting.

[CashGap]

In other words, all the things that consumers want, but investors hate.
I had a feeling something like that was the root of all of this. ;) :p

LOL. Yeah, it's obvious the consumers don't want what Apple is selling, but bless them for buying more than ever anyway!!!

Yes, there is a small unserved market niche looking for a prosumer tower. Apple has figured out that it's a "trap" niche that would not be in the best interests of the company and is wisely avoiding the trap.

[IJ Reilly]

Again, this is not idol worship, this is looking at it from a business perspective. The company is on the up. Still. It hasn't peaked, it hasn't leveled out. There's plenty left for Jobs to do before he goes. And I'd love to see the damage to Apple's stock price if he left today.

Well I wouldn't. Hasn't the last two weeks been bad enough?

Let's forget the "idol worship" thing, shall we? Jobs has been a phenomenal CEO for Apple on a purely objective basis. I think it's those who'd propose his ouster now, for no apparent reason other than Apple hasn't shipped their personal pet product, who should have their objectivity questioned.

[gauchogolfer]

Hey, I think it's the worst system..... except for all the others of course.

Somebody knows their Churchill!

;)

[GimmeSlack12]

...for no apparent reason other than Apple hasn't shipped their personal pet product, who should have their objectivity questioned.

Well said.
The ousting of Steve Jobs is so ludicrous that I can't really understand the thought process on that one. Who do you suggest replaces him? John Sculley?

The OP is noted of saying this first, and he can have all the credit for it. I will be the n-th person to say that I disagree.

[akadmon]

I love watching some of you :apple: worms squirm as the stock price keeps falling falling falling. I predict early retirement for Jobs real soon, by MWSF 2010 at the latest.

Slow and steady wins the race.

[CrackedButter]

I love watching some of you :apple: worms squirm as the stock price keeps falling falling falling. I predict early retirement for Jobs real soon, by MWSF 2010 at the latest.

Slow and steady wins the race.

I have no stock, I simply speak for their products, something which I'm happy to pay the extra $500 for. Comparing them to Dell is wrong, how much R & D do dell spend on their products for example for hardware and software costs, Apple do make their own operating system you know, Dell licenses somebody elses.

Nobody is old at 50 either, I hope Jobs doesn't retire by 2010. The more success he brings Apple the less likely that's going to happen. Share price might be down now like it always is after a Keynote, but Apple did just post their best quarter ever... again!

[IJ Reilly]

I love watching some of you :apple: worms squirm as the stock price keeps falling falling falling. I predict early retirement for Jobs real soon, by MWSF 2010 at the latest.

Slow and steady wins the race.

Lovely.

[akadmon]

Lovely.

I'm sorry about your loss.

[CalBoy]

I'm sorry about your loss.

For the past several days almost all major stocks have been bearish. AAPL is not alone in taking a hit.

Perhaps we should see where the stock is 2 years from now and see Jobs and Apple's performance over those 2 years before we automatically assume that the stock has "tanked" for good.

[akadmon]

For the past several days almost all major stocks have been bearish. AAPL is not alone in taking a hit.

Perhaps we should see where the stock is 2 years from now and see Jobs and Apple's performance over those 2 years before we automatically assume that the stock has "tanked" for good.

Without the "next big thing", I predict the stock will stagnate. It is clear the market is saturated with iPods, and that the iPhone will either continue to be a niche product, or else will just blend into the sea of me-too touch phones (same as happened with the first color TV set). I wish I knew what the "next big thing" for Apple should be. If I did, Steve would have probably hired me by now and I'd be rolling in stock options :D

[gauchogolfer]

Without the "next big thing", I predict the stock will stagnate. It is clear the market is saturated with iPods, and that the iPhone will either continue to be a niche product, or else will just blend into the sea of me-too touch phones (same as happened with the first color TV set). I wish I knew what the "next big thing" for Apple should be. If I did, Steve would have probably hired me by now and I'd be rolling in stock options :D

Did you notice the part of the financial report where iPod sales grew 5% last quarter (to 22 million total)? I think there are plenty of replacement iPods that will be sold as people replace their older, non-video able iPods with new models. That alone will help things more along.

[IJ Reilly]

I'm sorry about your loss.

I doubt it. In fact from your posts, I'd say you are positively delighted.

[CrackedButter]

Did you notice the part of the financial report where iPod sales grew 5% last quarter (to 22 million total)? I think there are plenty of replacement iPods that will be sold as people replace their older, non-video able iPods with new models. That alone will help things more along.

While the ipod sales only grew an extra 5%, notice how much profit they made, Gruber explains better at daringfireball.net but people are buying the higher end ipods, yes they sold less in volume but made more money with people buying the most expensive ones.

[IJ Reilly]

While the ipod sales only grew an extra 5%, notice how much profit they made, Gruber explains better at daringfireball.net but people are buying the higher end ipods, yes they sold less in volume but made more money with people buying the most expensive ones.

Right. The obsession with the number of units is a bit bizarre. Also, Mac sales are still more profitable and Mac sales are blazing, a fact the markets seem to overlook. The iPhone is also taking off more quickly than the iPod did this close to introduction, by far. I find it odd that so many people, even people who hang around here and should know better, don't seem to get what is going on at Apple, and seem to think that the company has to release a brand new blockbuster product every six months or they're down for the count. I haven't heard that kind of talk since the "beleaguered" days.

[akadmon]

Did you notice the part of the financial report where iPod sales grew 5% last quarter (to 22 million total)? I think there are plenty of replacement iPods that will be sold as people replace their older, non-video able iPods with new models. That alone will help things more along.

While the ipod sales only grew an extra 5%, notice how much profit they made, Gruber explains better at daringfireball.net but people are buying the higher end ipods, yes they sold less in volume but made more money with people buying the most expensive ones.

OK, let me point out that the year-to-year growth (units sold) was 50% last year and around 200% the year before. Can't you see a trend there? I do. It tells me that the music player market has just about reached a saturation point as far as Apple is concerned. Apple is THE Big Fish in the music/media player market, unlike the computer market where it is still a minnow. So while the overall PC market is growing at a very slow pace, Apple has still lots of room to grow within it. That's why I think switching focus away from computers will hurt Apple, at least in the mid term (next 5 years). Yes, Apple has made impressive strides in terms of gaining market share over the past couple of years. Nevertheless, I contend that they could have done better still.

EDIT:

I think I understand why the Apple stock has been hit so hard this week. People (by "people" I mean the analysts, those whose opinions drive the market) have been conditioned to see Apple as a "multimedia/communication device" (iPod/iPhone) company first and foremost. They have completely lost sight of the tremendous growth Apple has seen in the computer market. Surely someone bears the blame for this.

[surferfromuk]

What and have Apple return to the company it was in 1985 when some other idiot got rid of the heart and soul of Apple.
I can accept that maybe you don't exactly like Apple but record numbers do - Steve jobs has brought Apple back from the brink of oblivion and the best is yet to come.
The real problem for Apple now is that they are beginning for the first time in 20 years to genuinely threaten Microsoft global domination and for that reason I'm incredibly suspicious when folks turn up and make passive agressive attempts to ruin Apple by spreading silly ideas.
fact is Apple have never been bigger and never been better - I for one applaud Steve jobs as a rare , if uncompromising, visionary. Without him Apple is just another tech co
pant lost in the wilderness and without much of a chance in micros&ct world.

[loft3]

I don't own any Apple stock (yeah, I know -- stupid), and I sure won't be buying any anytime soon. Therefore I speak purely as a potential buyer of Apple products.

Between the late delivery of Leopard (shall I mention the bugs, the unfulfilled promises, "secret features", yada yada yada) , the stiff-arm treatment given to the loyal prosumers (look at the droves of Mac Pro owners stuck with their smoldering ATI 1900 XTs), the arrogant pricing of most products (shall I mention the iPhone, or the fact that I can get a Dell XPS 1530 for more than $500 less than 15" MBP that has lesser specs), and ego-trip projects like the new MBA ("world's thinnest laptop")... I say the man's lost it.

If you don't think that this is going to catch up with Apple's bottom line eventually, you're a bigger fool than I.

No, no. You're the biggest fool out there. What you are doing - starting this thread and all - it's envy. You say you love seeing AAPL shareholders squirm as the stock falls yet you don't own any. You have no financial interests in the company; you want to rip on the smart people who invested in it because you missed out. I bought my first condo in downtown Chicago this year, I paid 100% for it with the money I made in AAPL stock. I'm 30 and I have no mortgage and a kick ass loft because I was smart, as were others, investing in this stock. You weren't, and thats what burns you up. I even bought more stock last week at $175. Today it's $130. Am I worried? Not in the least? Am I squirming? No way.

I feel sorry for you so I'll even give you a tip: This is what is called a BUYING OPPORTUNITY. Buy AAPL now. It might still go down to $120, but buy it anyway, because the stock will be back at $200 by fall and $300 by end of 2009.

[akadmon]

No, no. You're the biggest fool out there. What you are doing - starting this thread and all - it's envy. You say you love seeing AAPL shareholders squirm as the stock falls yet you don't own any. You have no financial interests in the company; you want to rip on the smart people who invested in it because you missed out. I bought my first condo in downtown Chicago this year, I paid 100% for it with the money I made in AAPL stock. I'm 30 and I have no mortgage and a kick ass loft because I was smart, as were others, investing in this stock. You weren't, and thats what burns you up. I even bought more stock last week at $175. Today it's $130. Am I worried? Not in the least? Am I squirming? No way.

I feel sorry for you so I'll even give you a tip: This is what is called a BUYING OPPORTUNITY. Buy AAPL now. It might still go down to $120, but buy it anyway, because the stock will be back at $200 by fall and $300 by end of 2009.

No need to feel sorry for me, my friend. You don't know the first thing about me. For all I know, you could be living in your mom's basement somewhere on the south side of Morton Grove. Frankly, I don't give a damn.

[aristobrat]

OK, let me point out that the year-to-year growth (units sold) was 50% last year and around 200% the year before. Can't you see a trend there? I do. It tells me that the music player market has just about reached a saturation point as far as Apple is concerned.
And right on track, too.

Industry analysts have been writing for years now about how the MP3-player market would peak (and then shrink) as consumers turned towards converged phone+music players.

We've seen Apple's answer to this expected market shift -- the iPhone. Wonder what Creative and SanDisk's plans are?

[eenu]

OK, let me point out that the year-to-year growth (units sold) was 50% last year and around 200% the year before. Can't you see a trend there? I do. It tells me that the music player market has just about reached a saturation point as far as Apple is concerned.

**Retracted due to not sleeping for 37hrs and what i said was harsh. So apologies.**

First off, your statement above is incorrect. As is your knowledge of economic markets, stocks etc. As for your understanding of Apple as a company, its history and Steve Jobs performance well thats in a whole other league above incorrect.

How about constructive threads instead of trying to goad a community you know is going to disagree with you?

EDIT: Nice, you post goading people but when someone stands up to you - you report them! If you make posts like you did on a community such as this expect people to not take kindly to it, especially when your reasoning is completely none existant!?

[akadmon]

And right on track, too.

Industry analysts have been writing for years now about how the MP3-player market would peak (and then shrink) as consumers turned towards converged phone+music players.

We've seen Apple's answer to this expected market shift -- the iPhone. Wonder what Creative and SanDisk's plans are?

Frankly, I'm not too excited about the iPhone. My lowly Razr serves me just fine. I'm more excited about the iTouch, but I'm not getting one until is goes at least 32GB and gets some PDA-like functionality, including ability to read ebooks. Yeah, I'm one of those weirdos who think ebooks are cool. :)

[eenu]

I'm more excited about the iTouch, but I'm not getting one until is goes at least 32GB and gets some PDA-like functionality, including ability to read ebooks. Yeah, I'm one of those weirdos who think ebooks are cool. :-)

I presume you mean the Apple 'Touch'? 32GB fair enough, PDA functionality it has and as for the ebooks, given job's interview statement the other day you will be disappointed there

[akadmon]

I presume you mean the Apple 'Touch'? 32GB fair enough, PDA functionality it has and as for the ebooks, given job's interview statement the other day you will be disappointed there

We're both wrong -- it's called the iPod Touch :o

Yeah, I've heard about what Jobs said. I don't think this applies to my wish. Seems to me he was referring to a dedicated ebook reader, like the Amazon thingee.

[eenu]

We're both wrong -- it's called the iPod Touch :o

Yeah, I've heard about what Jobs said. I don't think this applies to my wish. Seems to me he was referring to a dedicated ebook reader, like the Amazon thingee.

Yeah just looked at what i wrote and thought it should be iPod Touch. As for the reader i am also someone that thinks ebooks are kool! :P

So despite our differences we have something in common. I like the idea of having everything on a server and i can just load up whatever book, music or movie i want

[akadmon]

Yeah just looked at what i wrote and thought it should be iPod Touch. As for the reader i am also someone that thinks ebooks are kool! :P


Next you're gonna tell me you love reading Maxim Gorky. I love reading Maxim Gorky ebooks! The way he just drops the story in mid run, as though expecting you to write the rest yourself. Wonderful! :)