More iTunes 5 Info?

[MacRumors]

Last week, Page 2 (http://page2.macrumors.com) of MacRumors provided some interesting but unverified reports of the upcoming iTunes release (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031009151815.shtml).

The anonymous Page 2 submission claimed that October 16th would bring iTunes 5 -- which was said to include WMA support, music store "listener loans", new encoding options and an all new interface.

New accessories for the iPod were reported to be "a recording device, a new dock to transfer and view movies and photos on a television and a bluetooth dock/headphone pair" with some tentative confirmation of plans for a photo-interface adapter for the iPod.

Today, AppleInsider claims to have (http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=220) some independent (but also unconfirmed) reports of similar upgrades planned from Apple.

Their report claims that Apple will be introducing a recording device, and a major update to iTunes and AAC Digital Rights Management to allow users to "borrow or preview full tracks or albums". (ed note: Listener loans?)

Both reports (Page 2 and Appleinsider) are tagged as unverified and could simply represent a common incorrect source.

iTunes last saw a major upgrade (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030428141644.shtml) in April, 2003 and was released alongside the original release of the iTunes Music Store.

[theipodgod16]

Listener Loans - Good!

WMA - Baddddd:o

Please, dont put microsoft on my ipod!

If they change one thing about itunes though, i hope that they make it so you can browse and edit your collection without having the music stop after every song. Anybody else know what i am talking about?

[september29th]

and a major update to iTunes and AAC Digital Rights Management to allow users to "borrow or preview full tracks or albums". (ed note: Listener loans?)

Perhaps a perk for those who own an Apple Computer ???


.mCr.

[G4scott]

Listener loans would be awesome! It would certainly give the iTMS an edge over any other service. It would ensure that the iTMS will wipe out the competition.

And with these new iPod accessories... Anyone want a 2nd generation 10 gb iPod? :D :cool:

As far as WMA goes, Apple will have to do it to stay competitive. Many people already have their songs in WMA format, and this is what it'll take to get them to use iTunes. They'll also have to use iTunes to transfer WMA's from another online music store onto an iPod (if it's possible), so why not just use the iTMS? If you ask me, it's a pretty smart idea.

[mactastic]

It actually would be very nice to get a chance to listen to more than 30 seconds of a song before you buy it.

[mainstreetmark]

"Listener Loans", eh?

So, I guess a song must request permission from iTMS to play, and after, what, 5 times it self-terminates?

I don't use iTMS much, because they still don't have music I like. Not a complaint, i realize they have to work with people who like the songs on the radio and all that, but maybe in a year or so, they'll be plugged in to every minor record label and then weiners like me will have a reliable place to purchase Man or Astro-Man? (although, I guess I already own all their albums)

[MacUser1]

interesting....
i feel the interface is excellent as it is, but i'm sure apple will find a way to make it even better

also the iPod peripherals seem a little off, some of the anyway...like the dock to view pictures and movies. i don't know if apple would do something like that right now. although i would definitely enjoy something like that!

[Le Big Mac]

Originally posted by mactastic
It actually would be very nice to get a chance to listen to more than 30 seconds of a song before you buy it.

You mean, like make it on-demand listening for any song?:confused: They're not about to let you listen to the whole thing.

although, I agree that it would be nice if they had two 30-second samples, each from different parts of the song, and if you clicked "listen again" (or something) it would give you the second clip.

[mainstreetmark]

Originally posted by theipodgod16

If they change one thing about itunes though, i hope that they make it so you can browse and edit your collection without having the music stop after every song. Anybody else know what i am talking about?

Yeah - that's the only part I have trouble with. I don't really know what 'playlist' it's playing. Or, if you search for a song you want to hear, and don't clear the search box, you get to hear that song over and over. There should be a "Current Playlist" Source listed, that lists what's coming up or something - even if it's just a mirror of one of your preset playlists. And it would be neat if you could add to it. Sometimes I want to hear 4 songs in a row, but don't want to create a 4-song playlist.

[Freg3000]

I brought this up in a previous thread: How much sense does it make for Apple to release Panther next week, without the latest and greatest iTunes, supposedly released this week?

That aside, I am weary of Listener Loans, as I do not fully understand them. To me, it just complicates the process. Can someone tell me what we 'think" it is?

Edit: Obviously, something big is happening on Thursday. Most likely there will be a Steve Keynote, and he isn't just going to demo iTMS for Windows for an hour.

[Ja Di ksw]

I've been wondering when they were going to come out with the next version, and eagerly looking forward to it. The interface is the best out there by far, in my opinion. Hopefully they won't ruin it, but I don't think they will. Some slight improvement that 95% of the people will like, but nothing drastic. As far as the iPod, I would really, really like to see a recording device. Of course, I couldn't use it with my 1st gen 5 GB iPod, but I would still want to see it. Maybe I'll even upgrade if its good enough, though I'm still trying to decide if buying a powerbook is worth it. I've got a decent nest egg, but no job right now, so no money coming in.

[cgmpowers]

How will Audio HiJack be defeated via Listener Loans? This program just records whatever sound it hears and was one of the programs, next to iLeach, that stole songs via the original iTunes Sharing experiment..

I want listener loans too but wonder how long until that's closed down??

I'm not trying to be a downer but even the AAC can be bypassed to a point, if you make a CD and rerip it to MP3's...

Christopher

[Makosuke]

Adding WMA support to iTunes (maybe only on the PC) wouldn't be a bad idea at all, but I'd be a bit surprised if they supported it on the iPod. I'd be even more surprised if they supported Microsoft DRM on the iPod (and I think it'd be a bad idea), but I suppose even that's possible.

I'm skeptical of the whole thing, but hey, we'll see soon enough.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by theipodgod16
Listener Loans - Good!

WMA - Baddddd:o

Please, dont put microsoft on my ipod!



No one is forcing you to do squat. You don't like it. Don't use it. Simple no?

[blueBomber]

wma support is a smart move IMHO. It may not be a standard, but it is a popular format, and if Apple wants to make inroads into the PC market, they have to go with the flow (but just this once):)

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Macrumors
Yada, yada, yada



:D Anyone else have a **** eating grin on their face after this news? I can't wait for Thursday. I have about $50 burning a hole in my pants. :)

[jaison13]

i think wireless headphones woud be great, i love the bluetooth accessories in general and being able to listen without wires would be awesome. charging the headphone would be the only downside.

[arn]

Originally posted by theipodgod16

Please, dont put microsoft on my ipod!


note: the rumor claims WMA on iTunes, not the iPod.

arn

[dho]

Freg3000:

They could have itunes 5 already in panther. They could have just not put it in the seed of the "gm". It really would not be hard to do.

Release it now and have a free online download and then ship it 2 weeks later in panther.

Or...
They could give you some sort of cryptic coupon like the g5 users got for panther

we will just have to wait 3 days:(

[temptatino]

Originally posted by cgmpowers
How will Audio HiJack be defeated via Listener Loans? This program just records whatever sound it hears and was one of the programs, next to iLeach, that stole songs via the original iTunes Sharing experiment..


exactly.

there's no way that we're getting anything like true 'listener loans'. heck you can record your mac's audio source even without audio hijack just by running a cable from your speaker out to your line in. with the way the labels have been about licensing i don't seem them throwing caution to the wind with listener loans.

[MM2270]

Originally posted by Ja Di ksw
I've been wondering when they were going to come out with the next version, and eagerly looking forward to it. The interface is the best out there by far, in my opinion. Hopefully they won't ruin it, but I don't think they will. Some slight improvement that 95% of the people will like, but nothing drastic. As far as the iPod, I would really, really like to see a recording device. Of course, I couldn't use it with my 1st gen 5 GB iPod, but I would still want to see it. Maybe I'll even upgrade if its good enough, though I'm still trying to decide if buying a powerbook is worth it. I've got a decent nest egg, but no job right now, so no money coming in.

I was just thinking the same thing. When I read about the "listener loans" I thought to myself that Audio Hijack would have a field day with it. It'll be interesting to see how Apple gets around apps like that. I imagine they have SOME plan or else they wouldn't be doing this.

[temptatino]

Originally posted by arn
note: the rumor claims WMA on iTunes, not the iPod.


and it should stay that way.. wma playback & conversion in itunes is one of things needed to pull in windows users. but apple probably isn't interested in letting users transfer wma from other download services directly to the ipod, or in trying to squeeze microsoft tech into a player that already kicks.

[temptatino]

Originally posted by MM2270
When I read about the "listener loans" I thought to myself that Audio Hijack would have a field day with it. It'll be interesting to see how Apple gets around apps like that. I imagine they have SOME plan or else they wouldn't be doing this.

how would you get around an app like that? you can't block audio services or recording... can you imagine having all of your audio apps screw up whenever you launched itunes or played a protected file? unless they locked the computer down (with a warning) ONLY while you were playing a 'listener loan' stream.

but then again.. listner loans really aren't all that different then streaming radio. so you never know. the main drawbacks to radio are quality and the lack of any way to preselect a song or predict when the song you want to record will come on.

i still don't expect to see 'listener loans' that are anything like what we've been discussing.

[tny]

WMA would be there for folks migrating from other music services or just from Windows Media Player so they don't have to rerip everything. Sooner or later they'll re-rerip everything to AAC (I used to have all MP3 on MusicMatch, and finally convinced myself that the slight diff in quality/compression was worth the time to rerip).

Listener loans: I'm not sure how they'd get around AudioHijack. Maybe iTunes would fail if AudioHijack is running? Or maybe listener loans would just be very low quality recordings, so noone would be tempted to rip them.

On the listener loans, you might get only 1 or 2 listens per song per account lifetime. Or you might pay $.50 for a file that would expire after a week, and you'd have to pay another $.49 to hear it after that.

[Stella]

Listener loans is excellent.

WMA Support:
hopefully you'll be able to convert music from wma to a proper open format such as AAC.

[stingerman]

WMA is just a codec, Apple will support it, but they will not support MSFT DRM, plain and simple. Get over it already. The issue is not the codec it's the DRM.

If Apple releases a multimedia doc for the iPod such that it will hook into your Hifi System including your TV, and allow you to record and play movies on the iPod, that would be awesome. If they add TIVO style recording, that would be incredible. It would blow the doors off of MSFT Media PC and be a heck of a lot better, cooler and cheaper.

Another feature that I have been hoping for is that my digital camera and camcorder can plug into the iPod. Having all that disk space in real-time will make my camera that much more awesome. it will save me a bunch of money on memory cards etc and pay for itself. What an awesome feature that would be.

PS, having a color video screen for the iPod is over-rated. Don't really need one, no one is going to watch video on the go except maybe when they are making long trips that allow you to sit and watch the movie. In that case you would take your notebook with you and can use the iPod to feed it the movie, much better experience.

[redAPPLE]

Originally posted by Freg3000


Edit: Obviously, something big is happening on Thursday. Most likely there will be a Steve Keynote, and he isn't just going to demo iTMS for Windows for an hour.

i hope he says there will be updated iBooks. even a speed-bumped one.

need an iBook quick!

[MM2270]

Originally posted by temptatino
.. wma playback & conversion in itunes is one of things needed to pull in windows users.

I think the key word here might be "conversion". I was just thinking that maybe Apple has put in some conversion tool built in to iTunes that will allow Windows users to move their WMA collection over by having iTunes convert the tracks to another iTunes/iPod supported format, such as MP3 or AAC, etc. It would make perfect sense, since many people would not use it if their existing collection could not move over.
Users of desktop publishing software will know what I'm referring to with a similar scheme in Adobe's InDesign software. It allows you to open and convert existing QuarkXPress documents to InDesign, but does NOT let you work on the native XPress file (for obvious reasons). Adobe did that because XPress was/is king (that's another argument) in that arena and they knew users would not switch unless they had a method of accessing their legacy documents. Maybe Apple has done something similar here in the new iTunes?

Just my thoughts. :)

[nathanziarek]

When I heard about these, I didn't really have any idea what they were, but I was thinking that, instead of Apple loaning us music (which would be silly, really - no income for them at all, and we're wasting bandwidth) it might be something more along the lines of me being able to loan someone else the music, somehow temporarily taking it out of my collection and putting it in yours, just like a CD. When I want it back, I recall it. That might be a really good way to turn digital media files into the CD of the future. Give us the options of a CD and people wary of digital music will respond.

Nate

[rikers_mailbox]

I think I know what "Listener Loans" are. They are a way to manage, or share your own purchased music. As it stands, only 3 computers are permitted to listen to your purchased music. So let's say you burn a data CD with some protected AAC files and give it to a friend. They can listen to it as long as they have your password, but that is one more computer that is added to your allotment of 3 computers. That sucks since its only a couple of songs they are listening to. . .

Listener Loans is like letting someone borrow a CD. You send them your protected AAC files and a special "Listener Loans" password, and that computer has a certian amout of time to listen to the file before their permission expires. And it doesn't count towards the 3 computer limit since it's only temporary listening privledges.

makes sense, eh?

[plastree]

Recording accessory for the iPod yeah!! I hope (but don't expect) it will have "pro" specs, like 24 bit A/D conversion. Paired with a good mic, the iPod would make a perfect field recorder!

[manu chao]

About listener loans and AudioHijack:
Weren't all these not too successful subscription based services streaming music to you on demand, which you could already back then record with AudioHijack (or the equivalent on the PC side)?

About WMA in iTunes:
How much use would it be for an average Windows user to be able to play his WMAs through iTunes but not being able to listen to them on his iPod? I know you can convert WMAs into AACs but with a similar quality loss as for converting protected AACs into MP3s, which supposedly is big enough to deter most people.

WMA support might very well come (both for iTunes and for the iPod) but support for protected WMAs most likely not.

[ennerseed]

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
Yeah - that's the only part I have trouble with. I don't really know what 'playlist' it's playing. Or, if you search for a song you want to hear, and don't clear the search box, you get to hear that song over and over. There should be a "Current Playlist" Source listed, that lists what's coming up or something - even if it's just a mirror of one of your preset playlists. And it would be neat if you could add to it. Sometimes I want to hear 4 songs in a row, but don't want to create a 4-song playlist.

does not command L do it for you?

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by temptatino
exactly.

there's no way that we're getting anything like true 'listener loans'. heck you can record your mac's audio source even without audio hijack just by running a cable from your speaker out to your line in. with the way the labels have been about licensing i don't seem them throwing caution to the wind with listener loans.

But then, you can do the same to any record station in the country ... and of course any Internet Radio station in the world.

I should hope that the RIAA have realized that "if you can hear it you can record it" is a fundamental truism by now!

[nathanziarek]

I agree that listener loans are borrowed CDs...if the rumor comes to pass as true. It wouldn't be a bad program at all, and could be used to get libraries into the digital media game. The trick is to keep the original owner from playing it while it is on loan, I would think. Or, to still give the user 3 listening slots and one loan slot. You don't want anyone to be able to loan it out endlessly. It should be a friend to friend type thing, just like a CD.

Nate

[arn]

To add the the listener loan rumors/speculation.

Remember this rumor:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/07/20030714002228.shtml

Watermarking DRM.

arn

[Turismo86]

Apple has consistently announced new products, at least major ones, by placing them in the marquee position on their website. Currently the Panther countdown occupies this coveted spot. I think it would be stupid to have a countdown up if apple is planning on releasing major new products between now and then. They would have to dedicate at least a few days for iTMS for Windows and the iPod updates to be on apple.com center position. This would greatly interfere with the Panther buildup and countdown so I doubt they will do it. My guess is that they will either announce that its coming but not here yet, or launch an entirely new site dedicated to the iTMS for Windows. Just some thoughts I had while avoiding my work. Does anyone else think this could be a problem?

[coolbreeze]

Defeating Audio Hijack for listener loans is very easy. All Apple has to do is insert an audio digital watermark in their "loaned" songs. Something similar to the periodic watermarks on airline videos, but make it audio...something to the effect of "Copyright Apple Computer" in the background every 30 seconds or so.

Annoying, yes. Would it work, yes. Would you want to listen to a burned CD with this periodic message? I think not!!

EDIT: I see that arn already mentioned this above (sorry, I confess to not having read every single post before offering my opinion).

My 2 pesos....

[rikers_mailbox]

Originally posted by Turismo86
Apple has consistently announced new products, at least major ones, by placing them in the marquee position on their website. Currently the Panther countdown occupies this coveted spot.

How many windows users pay attention to what Apple has up as their banner?

I think the countdown hypes up Panther for Apple users. . . iTMS for Windoze is another story. . .

-rik

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by stingerman
WMA is just a codec, Apple will support it, but they will not support MSFT DRM, plain and simple. Get over it already. The issue is not the codec it's the DRM.



Umm, actually ... WMA is a codec, but also a wrapper for other codecs (just like Quicktime).

By far the easiest way of supporting WMA on Windows is to hook into the WMP code already there. Which, of ccourse, does support the DRM features. On the Mac? I don't know. Even MS hasn't gotten their WMA+DRM code out the door for us yet.

On the iPod? As Arn said, this rumor says nothing about that, but then I'd hate to be told, "Sorry, you can't synch that song with your iPod; it is WMA". If iTunes supports WMA then I imagine the iPod will, too, in short order.

Will the iPod support WMA DRM? I think that this is actually a fairly easy task, as much a certification process as a technological hurdle. So, yes, I expect the iPod will support WMA/DRM unless Apple determines doing so is not in its interests.

Remember, though, that, at least for now, the iTMS exists to fuel sales of iPod and the Mac platform overall. It's primary goal is NOT to promote AAC, nor to destroy WMA, nor to be the #1 music source in the world for time and all eternity. It is to sell profitable items such as the iPod and other hardware.

In the same vein, the iPod does NOT exist to sell iTMS. The iPod and iTunes supporting WMA allows the iPod to be somewhat service-agnostic (get your tunes from BuyMusic if you have a pain fetish; your iPod will still play them).

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by redAPPLE
i hope he says there will be updated iBooks. even a speed-bumped one.

need an iBook quick!

In a Music event? Doubtful. Possible, but way down on the list of possibilities.

Remember the April event? We had iTMS and iPod enhancements for an hour. No PowerBook G5s then, remember?

[Turismo86]

riker,

True that very few Windows users look at apple.com, thats why i think there may be a new website launched for the iTMS for Windows. Also i think its big enough news for the company that it would be put in the center spot of the website, I think apple would like everyone who visits their site to know that they just launched the first cross-platform legal music service with support from all major record labels. This then means that it would interrupt the Panther buildup, so i'm leaning toward no announcement until after panther launches.

[prutz11]

I was just wondering if you could connect the optical out on the g5 into the audio in to record stuff at high quality? You know... plug an optical cable to the out on one end and to the in on the other? I'm not interested in doing it... just if it can be done.

[airbag]

Originally posted by Turismo86
Apple has consistently announced new products, at least major ones, by placing them in the marquee position on their website. Currently the Panther countdown occupies this coveted spot. I think it would be stupid to have a countdown up if apple is planning on releasing major new products between now and then. They would have to dedicate at least a few days for iTMS for Windows and the iPod updates to be on apple.com center position. This would greatly interfere with the Panther buildup and countdown so I doubt they will do it. My guess is that they will either announce that its coming but not here yet, or launch an entirely new site dedicated to the iTMS for Windows. Just some thoughts I had while avoiding my work. Does anyone else think this could be a problem?


I don't think Apple is going to let a minor website-firstpage-"conflict" interfere with important product releases.

If iTMS-Windows is ready to go, they can't afford to wait!

Anyway, they could just let the two ads change randomly at every load/reload - they've done this before.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by arn
note: the rumor claims WMA on iTunes, not the iPod.

So the "real rumor" must be import (conversion) and not support of wma in iTunes. Otherwise, it seems to me it makes little sense for iTunes to support playing wma files, but not the iPod. Remember, Apple doesn't make a dime on iTunes, so we should think about the products Apple might be trying to sell by supporting wma in iTunes...

[Frisco]

ennerseed,

Thanks! The command L works great! I never new about this command.

It brings you to the current playing song in its playlist from the playlist that you played it from.

Before I knew about the Coomand L thing I was confused as to what playlist a song was playing in.

This solves that problem :D

[Vonnie]

Maybe Microsoft will have Windows Media Player 9 ready by then, and make it available as a plugin for quicktime. Then you automatically have support for WMA in iTunes, browser plugin support for WMV (as they showed at WWDC).
Maybe we will never have to use that WMPlayer interface again! :-)

[X86BSD]

It's going to be a long three days. I can't wait to see what they have up their sleeve.

[MorganX]

If this means the iPod will support WMA, there's little change anyone will catch up to iPod's marketshare. Excellent move. I'll believe it when I see it though. It's seems too good to be true.

[dho]

Turismo86:

I totaly agree

they could put the countdown timer in one of the four spots on the bottom for the few days after itms is released

[barbaloot]

DVD Audio would be cool! I have quite a few DVD audio disks. And I can only listen to them via my DVD Player. Or Apple DVD player. I would love to just play the audio thru iTunes.

[tny]

Conversion from a WMA-wrapped codec to AAC would only make sense if the Codec WMA is wrapping is itself AAC. Conversion from one lossy encoding to another is an ugly process. I think you're much more likely to see support for importing and playing WMA on iTunes and iPods, but no rip-to-WMA support.

[greenstork]

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
Yeah - that's the only part I have trouble with. I don't really know what 'playlist' it's playing. Or, if you search for a song you want to hear, and don't clear the search box, you get to hear that song over and over. There should be a "Current Playlist" Source listed, that lists what's coming up or something - even if it's just a mirror of one of your preset playlists. And it would be neat if you could add to it. Sometimes I want to hear 4 songs in a row, but don't want to create a 4-song playlist.

If they added a quene to iTunes, that would be perfect. Then you could browse your library and add a bunch of music that you want to listen to without having to sit down out the computer after every song.

edit: I know I could just make a playlist but I I want something more innovative than that, something less permanent. More importantly, I want this feature on an iPod.

Also, I love the interface in iTunes but it would be cool to set it up like the column view of the finder. I have 20 gigs in my library and not every artist fits on my playlist column. I would love to surf through the collection like in the finder.

[Awimoway]

Any news about a webcast or in-store broadcast of the Thursday event?


By the way, Jobs recently stated that iTMS was not created to be a cash-cow: it was intended to bolster sales of iPods by providing consumers with a steady supply of music. Think about, the original iPod came out during (or was it just after?) the heady Napster days of widespread music sharing. Although the iPod has sold well, building a large library of music to fill your iPod has been much harded to come by. That's what the iTMS is for.

My point is that support for WMA falls in line with this. I don't think it's an issue of competition so much as furthering the appeal of a portable music player that can hold more than a gig of material.

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by Turismo86
riker,

True that very few Windows users look at apple.com, thats why i think there may be a new website launched for the iTMS for Windows.

First of all, I'd like to know where you get your 'facts' from. Apple released figures during the 'switch' campaign that showed a significant percentage of visitors to the Apple web site are windows users. I'm sure with iPod sales taking off, that number continues to increase.

Secondly, the whole point of launching iTunes for windows (as well as the iPod for windows) is to ultimately help increase demand for Apple products among windows users. Diverting traffic away from their main website wouldn't serve that purpose well.

[jMc]

I couldn't see anyone else who'd brought this up... but if Listeners Loans are files with an expiry date, they would still cost something, it may be that you can buy a three day 'Loan' of the tune for 30c silver pieces, and then if you wanted to buy the tune it would only cost another 69c... Most users aren't going to be bothered with the hassle of ripping tunes with Audio Hijack or whatever, in the same way most users can't be bothered going through the trouble of burning and re-ripping CDs...

jx

[greenstork]

Originally posted by tny


Listener loans: I'm not sure how they'd get around AudioHijack. Maybe iTunes would fail if AudioHijack is running? Or maybe listener loans would just be very low quality recordings, so noone would be tempted to rip them.


I think if you made the streaming audio 56kb or less quality that the record companies wouldn't care if you hijacked it. They could even make it lower quality than that. If it's enough to get an idea of what the song sound like, that all Iw ould need and I think it would be a great feature. Make it low low quality and no one would want to steal it. If they did, ideally, the record companie wouldn't care about such a low quality recording.

[rogueimage]

Originally posted by greenstork
Also, I love the interface in iTunes but it would be cool to set it up like the column view of the finder. I have 20 gigs in my library and not every artist fits on my playlist column. I would love to surf through the collection like in the finder.

Rather than make playlists for all your artists, why not just choose browse in the library and select just the artist(s) to which you want to listen. I find that does the job when I want to listen to a specific artist, album, or genre. I reserve playlists for eclectic mixes.

As an aside, I have a smart playlist I really like, to which I listen almost exclusively. It is 50 random songs with a rating greater than 3 stars and which have not been played in the last day. This keeps me from hearing the same song too often, and works well both at my computer, and using my iPod.

[greenstork]

Originally posted by stingerman

If Apple releases a multimedia doc for the iPod such that it will hook into your Hifi System including your TV, and allow you to record and play movies on the iPod, that would be awesome. If they add TIVO style recording, that would be incredible. It would blow the doors off of MSFT Media PC and be a heck of a lot better, cooler and cheaper.


Although I absolutely love the idea of Apple expanding it's functionality of a DVR, I just don't see why you'd want an iPod to do it. Why not just have your laptop or desktop take on this function. You need processing power for this function to work anyway. I wouldn't want Apple create a DVR like system if it didn't work as well or better than a TIVO and the iPod simply doesn't have any processor that can accomplish this.

[DougAdams]

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
There should be a "Current Playlist" Source listed, that lists what's coming up or something

Command-L in iTunes or, if you don't want to make it active, put this in your Scripts Menu:

tell application "System Events"
if (name of processes) contains "iTunes" then
tell application "iTunes"
if player state is playing then
set view of front window to playlist (name of current playlist)
end if
end tell
end if
end tell

[MrMacMan]

Wow that would be cool, loaner library.

I like that alot... :D

Windows iTMS another plus, always good.

[bankshot]

If the "new encoding options" part is true, then please please please let it include ripping a whole album as one file with a cue sheet. Please! :p

I've probably posted about this a million times, but for me, this is by far the most glaring fault of iTunes and the iPod. In either one, I can't listen to an album straight through without slight gaps between tracks -- it's worse on the iPod. Most albums are ok, because they're created with silence between tracks. So you don't even notice. But some albums have tracks that run into one another with no break, and of course live albums have the whole crowd noise going all the time. In these albums, I get gaps.

Of course I can join tracks in iTunes when ripping, but then I lose individual track information. I can have one or the other -- separate tracks or no gaps -- but not both. This is something that a 20-year-old CD player has no trouble with, so why not state of the art iTunes and iPod?

I've left Apple numerous feedbacks on this, but I always get the impression that they aren't listening. Especially considering that most users probably don't care much about this or even notice. But if they add this (and corresponding support in the iPod), my Mac life will be complete. :D (well, as soon as I get my hands on Panther that is...)

[FlamDrag]

What *I* (the clear expert on everything) think that iTMS could use is a sort of "preview radio".

Think of it this way, going along with the rotating banner ads in the store is a 10 second clip for each one. But it's non-stop - so you could just sit and listen for say...10 minutes and hear 60 different tunes. Certainly you'd have a dynamic "add to cart" option that halted the image change on roll over.

I like to try to expose myself to some different music, but frequently I don't know where to begin. I've listened to a ton of previews but it gets tedious double clicking around the site. If there were a changing daily promotional reel, I'd likely buy more often. I'm already a bit stunned at how much money I've spent already.

Also a button to "preview album" which allows you to listen to all the 30 second clips on the album consecutively would be nice.

[JayBee]

<tuppenceworth subject="WMA Support">

Think about it like this - Apple has spent pretty much ALL of the past two years telling everyone who would listen about how well and seamlessly Apple's software works on Apple hardware, as well as how simply it all integrates with Windows systems.

Now, after all that, do you honestly think they're going to release a bit of software that your average Windows user eagerly downloads only to find that

iTunes cannot play your current music as it is encoded in WMA format. iTunes does not support this format, but you can re-compress all your existing music by inserting the CDs one at a time and letting iTunes automagically convert them to the open AAC format

No. No way. Most Windows users (and ESPECIALLY those Apple is targetting with its "Let the computer get out of your way" marketing) don't give a hoot what format their music is in on their PC. They just put the CD in the drive (just like iTunes), and BOOM, the music is on their computer. If iTunes for Windows doesn't play that music, they'll blame Apple for being incompatible and go back to WMP like little sheep.

For iTfW to be successful, it HAS to live up to the Apple promise of being good to go out of the box. Re-ripping, converting, being made aware of a problem (using WMA) that wasn't a problem till you used iTunes, and not being able to load your music on to your iPod are not examples of a solution that "Just Works".

Think for more than three seconds, think about how Apple works, think about how it designs software, and you'll realise that all this talk about how awful WMA support would be is just plain nonsense.

The beauty is that those users who don't care (or don't know) what format their music is in will use iTunes to manage their existing music, love its simplicity, use it as their default music player, and hence "adopt" AAC without realising it.

"Think Different" doesn't mean "Think Contrarian".

It's MS's job to force "standards" on users, not Apple's ;)

</tuppenceworth>

[Chris Wardzala]

Also this Bluetooth headphone would be excellent. I would get it. I hate having to mow lawn or get on the bus with a cord dangling to get snagged and pull my iPod from my pocket (happened more than once).

[NoVi]

Maybe a stupid question :rolleyes:

Will introducing IMTS for Windows bring a Windows iTunes version?

Or will IMTS for Windows solely be handled through a web interface?

[blackcrayon]

The iPod already supports WMA playback in its hardware- so it isn't much of a stretch for apple to put the capability in the firmware.

They *should* allow ITunes for windows to play WMA files, and sync WMA files to the iPod. That only makes sense, especially for the windows crowd. I don't see it as a priority update for the mac version of iTunes, although it would surely be nice.. It's not a requirement. The iTunes music store would still have strictly AAC files, which would also be supported on iTunes for Windows. It's just that the users *existing* WMA songs will play fine within 'Tunes and on their iPod... There really is no *huge* reason to support encoding of WMA... Unless they are going to support other portable players besides the iPod- and in that case, they still have the option of MP3...

[airbag]

Originally posted by bankshot
If the "new encoding options" part is true, then please please please let it include ripping a whole album as one file with a cue sheet. Please! :p

Agree! I'm a big fan of Pink Floyd, and many of their albums have tracks that segues into the next (think Dark Side of the Moon). If there'a a major upgrade to iTunes coming on thursday, I hope this is fixed.

I also wish Apple would make a more visual way of browsing music - by cover-art. When you have a lot of music, the text-only interface really isn't very intuitive. We have always been used to browsing our old LPs and CDs by visual appearance as well as titles, and this has been lost. I've used a small app called Clutter for this, but I'm sure Apple can do it much better!

sorry for being a bit off-topic!:rolleyes:

On topic:
WMA-support in iTfW = good ;)
Separate website = bad :mad:

[ennerseed]

Originally posted by greenstork
edit: I know I could just make a playlist but I I want something more innovative than that, something less permanent. More importantly, I want this feature on an iPod.

No Joke! I was at my little neighborhood bar/restaurant watching the owners put their own money in the jukebox... They were talking about buying a their own (most are rented) so they could make it free. All i could think was iPod, but dam no jukebox type queue. -nice... it would keep people from coming over (office / house) and changing my song to what they want to hear... "just double click it, it'll come on after my song(s)" -love it

[ariza910]

I was just thinking that if Steve Jobs has a key note to present iTunes for Windows he will have to use a PC to show it off. Cant wait for his comment on this one.

What type of PC will he use? Dell LOL.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by NoVi
Maybe a stupid question :rolleyes:

Will introducing IMTS for Windows bring a Windows iTunes version?

Or will IMTS for Windows solely be handled through a web interface?

It'll be an app. I've got about 100 mini CD's sitting here at work. I'm planning on distributing them to the folks at work come Thursday once I download the software and then ask them to pass the CD on. I'm going to spam the crap out of everyone I know to get them to use iTunes. :)

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by ariza910
I was just thinking that if Steve Jobs has a key note to present iTunes for Windows he will have to use a PC to show it off. Cant wait for his comment on this one.

What type of PC will he use? Dell LOL.

Not if he uses terminal services or VNC. :D

[ennerseed]

Originally posted by airbag
Agree! I'm a big fan of Pink Floyd, and many of their albums have tracks that segues into the next (think Dark Side of the Moon). If there'a a major upgrade to iTunes coming on thursday, I hope this is fixed.

Select your cd tracks then go to the menu bar under "Advanced" select "Join CD Tracks" then click the Import button.

[rogueimage]

Originally posted by bankshot
...some albums have tracks that run into one another with no break, and of course live albums have the whole crowd noise going all the time. In these albums, I get gaps....


It isn't a perfect solution, but in iTunes, if you turn on Crossfade Playback in the Effects section of Preferences, then set the slider to zero seconds, it plays songs without a gap between them. Obviously this doesn't solve the problem for the iPod, but it's better than nothing.

[paulc]

Seems to me the ONLY point of wma support is in both Tunes AND a Pod. One without the other is pointless. And the point IS that all the other services use wma.

I'd also beg to differ on iTunes "major upgrade." That software has NOT had an upgrade since version 4. Yes, 4 added the ITMS. But there was essentially no REAL functionality change in the software (i.e. no change in managing your music, which WAS the original point of the software). The list of users wishes for upgrades to the software go all the way back to version 3.

[kwajo.com]

Originally posted by ennerseed
No Joke! I was at my little neighborhood bar/restaurant watching the owners put their own money in the jukebox... They were talking about buying a their own (most are rented) so they could make it free. All i could think was iPod, but dam no jukebox type queue. -nice... it would keep people from coming over (office / house) and changing my song to what they want to hear... "just double click it, it'll come on after my song(s)" -love it

well there is the "On-the-go" playlist on the iPod. just find a song and hold down the select botton until the name flashes a couple times, that will add it to the playlist, and they are fluid in changing while you're "on the go" as it were. works great for me :p

[3G4N]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20031013/tc_nm/tech_apple_itunes_dc

[airbag]

Originally posted by ennerseed
Select your cd tracks then go to the menu bar under "Advanced" select "Join CD Tracks" then click the Import button.

Won't work. You lose the cue sheet, and can no longer jump between independent tracks!

Crossfade: Tried this. No good, especially not when the songs are seamlessly connected - it screws up the rythm and just doesn't sound right!

Point is: CD-players has managed this since the 80s - why doesn't iTunes in 2003??:confused: :mad:

[duffyb]

I hope the new iTunes will give me the ablity to record a CD in MP3 format and still keep the folder (or playlist) orginization. Right now, I have to use Toast to do so since iTunes just dumps 150+ songs on a CD. Using folders allows me to switch from album to album or song to song on my car Mp3/CD player.

[zach]

I think WMA audio will hit iTunes, as well as full WMP support (a plugin, I suppose) for QuickTime.

[Dippo]

Since Jobs has said that the only reason for ITMS is to sell more iPods...

WMA support for both the codec and DRM will happen to increase the range of people that would purchase the iPod. I would look for the iPod to support even more codecs in the future.

As for anything non-audio supported in the iPod, I don't think so, besides that I don't think the iPod is capable of decoding video, it wouldn't fit into the plans Jobs has for the iPod.

[JayBee]

Originally posted by ariza910
I was just thinking that if Steve Jobs has a key note to present iTunes for Windows he will have to use a PC to show it off. Cant wait for his comment on this one.

What type of PC will he use? Dell LOL.

Nah, my bets are as follows:

- Steve runs down how successful iTMS has been, and how phenomenal the iPod has performed so far

- "but we can make the iPod a little better"

- introduces cool iPod accessories, modular in design, hence the whole "Pod" naming strategy

- "so how do we get at all these new features?"

- introduces iTunes 5 for OS X. Lengthy tech demo of iTunes 5 on a G5, showing new accessories syncing (or whatever) via iTunes, new iTMS features, etc etc. This is the majority of the presentation.

- plays the new iPod ad. Rewind to "Mac & PC" frame.

- "But wait a minute. How do we get these cool new accessories to work on the PC? MusicMatch can't do that!"

- fade from MusicMatch to iTunes for Windows

- "And it's got _completely_the_same_ functionality as the OS X version"

...

Et voila - Steve doesn't have to get his hands dirty!

I would actually be willing to bet that one of the "delays" in iTunes for Win was making sure that the OS X version was ready too, so that a demo on OS X would suffice for both ;)

[blueBomber]

wow... I could actually see Steve doing that exact set up

[Chris Wardzala]

A reach, but do you think the iTMS playing Windows Media has anything to do with the new Player Windows is releasing soon?

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by 3G4N
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20031013/tc_nm/tech_apple_itunes_dc

"They're going to have a serious problem with the Windows community," said Rob Enderle, principal of market research firm the Enderle Group. "If they could have gone there first, they could have carved out a beachhead."

True enough. :(

[illumin8]

Originally posted by arn
Watermarking DRM.
If Apple does this the iTMS is destined to fail. Consumers have time and time again resisted DRM that is too intrusive and once it starts to affect the audio quality of the recording (by watermarking) you reach the point where people will no longer buy it.

Also, the watermarking technology by Verance has been widely discredited. Remember a little while back when the RIAA posted several audio files on their website that were watermarked and challenged hackers to defeat the watermarks? Every single one of them was defeated. This is that same technology.

The DRM as it exists on iTMS right now is acceptable. If Apple decides to start watermarking every file with the subscriber name or something that will identify the user, this will not be acceptable. Go ahead and sell me a digital song, but don't interfere with the sound quality.

Let's think of a hypothetical situation here: Let's say I burn an audio CD with some of my iTMS purchased music on it and loan it to a friend. That friend decides to rip it to MP3 and uploads it on Kazaa. The files on Kazaa are widely distributed, and pretty soon I get a nice fat letter from an RIAA attorney suing me for illegally sharing music online. Sound far-fetched? If Apple uses watermarking DRM this is only the beginning of the picture.

[illumin8]

Originally posted by airbag
If iTMS-Windows is ready to go, they can't afford to wait!
You are right on the money with this one. Napster 2.0 is going to be released next week and they already have huge name recognition. If Apple wants to be even a small player in the online music market, they need to launch iTMS for Windows immediately.

[Mudbug]

I would think the listener loans part of this would fall into what a lot of audio-content houses are using now online for samples - the complete track, but at like 20 kbps, instead of 128. It sounds like crap, and you wouldn't want to listen to it normally, but would be helpful to you in previewing or comping music before purchase. If you've heard part of a song, and want to make sure it's the right song before plunking down your change for it, maybe a low-res rendition that you can loan out (without expecting it back) is the way to go. And at low enough resolution, the full track would take probably as much space as the present 128 kbps AAC previews do now. And trust me, low enough, even the pirates would toss it.

[SoonToGetAMac]

Originally posted by blueBomber
wow... I could actually see Steve doing that exact set up Yeah, I'll take bets that that's exactly what happens.:D Mabye Arn can just post that on the play-by-play keynote site:)

[rdowns]

Originally posted by SoonToGetAMac
Yeah, I'll take bets that that's exactly what happens.:D Mabye Arn can just post that on the play-by-play keynote site:)

Don't see that happening. iTfW is all about Windows, not trying to plug the Mac. Windows users (rightly so in many instances) see Mac users as arrogant. Steve needs to demo it on a Windows box (IBM box anyone?) and show how easy it is to use; maybe even demo it side by side with a Mac.

[rdowns]

Originally posted by rdowns
Don't see that happening. iTfW is all about Windows, not trying to plug the Mac. Windows users (rightly so in many instances) see Mac users as arrogant. Steve needs to demo it on a Windows box (IBM box anyone?) and show how easy it is to use; maybe even demo it side by side with a Mac.

edit: woo hoo- no longer a newbie

[bankshot]

Originally posted by duffyb
I hope the new iTunes will give me the ablity to record a CD in MP3 format and still keep the folder (or playlist) orginization. Right now, I have to use Toast to do so since iTunes just dumps 150+ songs on a CD. Using folders allows me to switch from album to album or song to song on my car Mp3/CD player.

iTunes has had this since version 2. You can organize in separate folders by Artist or Album.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60931

[mxpiazza]

"The best keeps getting better. Come to one of these Apple stores Thursday, Oct 16, at 10 a.m. PT to see a live satellite broadcast of this exciting event."

http://www.apple.com/retail/musicevent/

[tizza]

will be interesting to see if iTunes 5 (if it does indeed exist) is somehow bundled with Panther but currently hidden. Can't wait to see what iPod accessories might be on the way too ...

[earlopogous]

Originally posted by bankshot
If the "new encoding options" part is true, then please please please let it include ripping a whole album as one file with a cue sheet. Please! :p

I've probably posted about this a million times, but for me, this is by far the most glaring fault of iTunes and the iPod. In either one, I can't listen to an album straight through without slight gaps between tracks -- it's worse on the iPod. Most albums are ok, because they're created with silence between tracks. So you don't even notice. But some albums have tracks that run into one another with no break, and of course live albums have the whole crowd noise going all the time. In these albums, I get gaps.


YES! this drives me crazy. If anyone has listened to Chicago Transit Authority, there are 6-7 tracks that merge together into almost one song. If drives me up the wall that the music stops for a second when the track changes

[earlopogous]

Originally posted by blueBomber
wow... I could actually see Steve doing that exact set up

I think i see him starting the Dell up and it crashing as he moves to buymusic.com, then he reboots, and shows the iTMS on windows. Sorta like Gates' crashing the PC on stage a long time ago.

[SoonToGetAMac]

Originally posted by tizza
will be interesting to see if iTunes 5 (if it does indeed exist) is somehow bundled with Panther but currently hidden. Can't wait to see what iPod accessories might be on the way too ... It could be in plain sight on the final copy of the CD and since no one has the final copy, no one knows what is actually on the CD, despite that Apple says that iTunes 4is on it.

[ducam23]

two words:

Virtual PC.

I know it doesn't work with the G5 yet but maybe show off the new PowerBook 15" or just run a 17" under the table with a screen and bluetooth mouse and keyboard. wouldn't that be tight.

[JayBee]

Originally posted by ducam23
two words:

Virtual PC.

I know it doesn't work with the G5 yet but maybe show off the new PowerBook 15" or just run a 17" under the table with a screen and bluetooth mouse and keyboard. wouldn't that be tight.

Hmm. I'm a-doubtin it... Somehow I just can't see Steve using a windows machine. Let's be honest - the only people who are going to be watching this are us. I doubt I'll ever see a Stevenote aimed at the Windows crowd.

Of course I could be wrong, but I just can't picture it... can you?

Regardless, VPC is now a MS app. If he wants to keep it clean, he'd be better using a dedicated wintel ;)

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by JayBee
For iTfW to be successful, it HAS to live up to the Apple promise of being good to go out of the box. Re-ripping, converting, being made aware of a problem (using WMA) that wasn't a problem till you used iTunes, and not being able to load your music on to your iPod are not examples of a solution that "Just Works".

I agree, which is why I'd guess iTunes for Windows will support the conversion-on-import of WMA to AAC or MP3, not playing WMA. The ability to play WMA does Apple little good, unless the iPod will also be updated to play WMA files.

[JayBee]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
I agree, which is why I'd guess iTunes for Windows will support the conversion-on-import of WMA to AAC or MP3, not playing WMA. The ability to play WMA does Apple little good, unless the iPod will also be updated to play WMA files. Hmm. As someone already said, conversion from one lossy format to another would be a bad idea. The ability to play WMA may do Apple little good, but the inability to do so will probably do iTfW a lot of bad.

iPod will be updated to play WMA files, iTfW will play WMA files, but will not be able to encode WMA files.

That's my bet, and I reckon that any other solution mentioned so far just isn't Apple enough. That's including the "convert on the fly" idea. Nice for geeks, but too slow and cumbersome for "the rest of us", plus degraded quality will lead to "Hey, this file sounds great in WMP, but sucks in iTfW. I'm sticking with WMP, not that second-rate Apple wannabe" first impressions.

This isn't going to be about releasing an almost-iTunes experience on Windows and saying "Hey, buy a Mac and it'll be even better!". This is going to be ALL ABOUT first impressions. MAKING users do ANYTHING more than loading the software will lose a lot of potential converts.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by greenstork
If they added a quene to iTunes, that would be perfect. Then you could browse your library and add a bunch of music that you want to listen to without having to sit down out the computer after every song.

edit: I know I could just make a playlist but I I want something more innovative than that, something less permanent. More importantly, I want this feature on an iPod.


I don't get this. Playlists are as "permanent" as you make them. Personally, I have a playlist titled "zztemp" (the "zz" keeps it always at the bottom of my "permanent" lists) that I drag a bunch of songs to when I want to listen to them, and either start at the song I want to listen to or periodically clear out (esp if I want to have iTunes play random over a bunch of songs that day).

More importantly, this feature is already on the iPod's last I heard -- on the fly playlists.


Also, I love the interface in iTunes but it would be cool to set it up like the column view of the finder. I have 20 gigs in my library and not every artist fits on my playlist column. I would love to surf through the collection like in the finder.

Then have iTunes manage your library, and use the Finder's column view to find your tunes, then drag them from the Finder to your iTunes playlist ... iTunes is pretty smart about that kind of thing. Personally, I prefer just the regular iTunes interface. You do know about the Browse interface (Apple-B), right? An automatic playlist by artist or by album, kinda sorta.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by JayBee
iPod will be updated to play WMA files, iTfW will play WMA files, but will not be able to encode WMA files.

That would be my guess as well, though quite a few people around here will be pretty upset if Apple supports WMA in this way.