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Stuart in Oz
Jan 16, 2008, 06:14 AM
It seems to me that everyone is missing the real point of the MacBook Air.

This computer was not released to be a great laptop. It wasn't released to sell in large volumes and it wasn't released to give you everything you currently get in a MacBook or MacBook Pro.

The MacBook Air was released to remind the world that Apple is way ahead of the rest of the industry. It is to plant in the minds of the consumer today the seed that will sprout into a visit to an Apple shop for a new laptop in 2010.

Apple have always been deeply involved in the development and progress of portable computing and they want to stay at the cutting edge.

In 1989 they broke new ground with the Macintosh Portable, setting the basic design for modern laptops. In 1991, (to quote Wikipedia), "The Apple PowerBook series, introduced in October 1991, pioneered changes that are now de facto standards on laptops." In 2001 we got the Titanium Powerbook - that machine set the basic standard in design (both stylistic and technical) for laptops for the next 7 years (and still counting).

Now, once again, there are technologies coming together that make a radical redesign possible. And so Apple have given it to us. The MacBook Air. Think of the MacBook Air as the pioneering generation of the next 10 years of Apple laptops. Like the Titanium Powerbook it has set a basic size and shape that breaks new boundaries and it has brought together a grouping of technologies that will become standard over the 10 year life of this design.


Multi Touch not very useful? Wait until the software makers have had 3 or 4 years to explore it's potential.

Fixed battery with poor life? The battery industry is promising new generation batteries by around 2010 with double the current life and 5 minute recharging times (do a Google search - look for Hitachi especially).

No optical drive? Think how far iTunes has come with music in the last 3 years. How far do you think it will go with movies in the next 3? And my local computer store is selling 8GB USB keys for A$49 (US$39) at the moment. In 3 years you don't think 64GB keys will be the same price? Who wants a DVD burner then?

No inbuilt Ethernet & only 1 USB? 3 years ago I was the only person with a wireless network in my street. Right now my computer is detecting 18 home networks and my middle aged non-technical neighbour proudly showed me her new wireless printer two weeks ago. Wireless really is the future. Even hotels will catch up.

Scared by the price of the SSD? 3 years ago a 64GB SSD would have put a premium on the machine of over $10 000. Today it's down to a few hundred dollars. By 2010 it will be the standard.


So sure, the MacBook Air of early 2008 has limitations, is missing heaps of stuff we all think is essential and probably won't sell that many. But when you go to buy your next laptop, and the one after that, it will likely be an upgraded version of what we have seen released today.

And ever newspaper reader and TV news watcher of today's unveiling will remember for the next 10 years that Apple were the first to do this modern new design that everyone else is now copying, and honey, shouldn't we see what they have in their store before we look at a PC laptop?



heaven
Jan 16, 2008, 06:20 AM
Wow! Great post! I totally agree with all of your points. I really like what they have introduced yesterday. :cool:

JG271
Jan 16, 2008, 06:37 AM
Nice post, i agree. I think that in a few years a lot of laptop manufacturers will be following apple's lead - just like they have done in the past with isight cameras built in, all in one pcs, firewire... etc.
As Steve said himself, it is only the beginning of the year, i think we can see more great apple products and revisions over the rest of the year.

trygve
Jan 16, 2008, 06:47 AM
One other point to note: Do you remember when Apple stopped equipping their computers with floppydisks? Everyone was howling about how terrible this was, lots of external floppys became available, and so on. And where's the floppy now? I think that not only space considerations is behind Apple's desicion to drop the optical drive in this computer - they are rather hinting about the wireless future of computers. All in line with their iPod Touch, iPhone and Apple TV - wireless and diskless computers all. "Air" has for years been Apple's name for it's wireless devices, remember.

motulist
Jan 16, 2008, 06:49 AM
I agree with your idea that Apple were trying to push the envelope to set a new design paradigm. Jobs often repeats a quote from Wayne Gretsky (sp?) "You have to skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it is now." But in this case I think jobs overshot the puck. When Apple dropped the floppy disk drive, it clearly was an obsolete technology that was just waiting to be dropped by the entire industry. The same could be said of the optical drive today.

However, ethernet is not even close to being obsolete and is still very much a prime technology that's constantly used in many environments. Same with the battery. Maybe in a couple of years the battery life will be sufficient to never need swapping or replacing, but that's not the case today. Today and for at least the next few years many people still need swappable and replaceable batteries.

Jobs overshot the puck on this one.

John Purple
Jan 16, 2008, 06:49 AM
It seems to me that...
... this is not the point. MBA might be the best ultra ever (why not) and a fair price (I don't know) but please understand, people complaining on this site for what has been said (or has not been said) by SJ just don't care. They either don't need one, don't want one or just are not willing to pay for one.

If you read the supporting replies in MR you will notice that a lot of them go like '...when I go back to school ...'. I perfectly agree that a MBA is a great machine to show the fellows at school you're rich, beautiful etc.

But for 'The Rest of Us" i.e. those who have to earn their money by using notebooks, MBA is only a good choice, if it fits a lot better in a bag than MB or MBP (which I doubt, as the footprint of MBA is not really smaller). OK there is the better design :o , but for the rest MB and MBP, also quite thin, are by far the better deal. And a lot of people are waiting for them to be released with Penryn and Blu-Ray. At least I will not buy am MBP at EUR 2,800 (about $ 4,100) before this release, only to learn 24 hours after holding it in my hands, that the expected upgrade will happen now.

deanbo
Jan 16, 2008, 07:00 AM
1. Wireless is slow.
2. Wireless is insecure.
3. It's expensive.
4. For the extra cost you can have half the features.

If you want to see show ponies go buy a horse because this particular machine is way overpriced and way under featured.

Cybergypsy
Jan 16, 2008, 07:03 AM
bought 2, and cant wait to get them in my hands :)

valdore
Jan 16, 2008, 07:08 AM
Stuart, your original post makes me reticent to sell my Apple stock. :)

garethlewis2
Jan 16, 2008, 07:09 AM
I'm missing the point because Apple want to show the world what a great laptop they can build? Don't be naive. Apple don't build this, ASUS or Acer are building this.

Is it a good design? Yes. Does it make it worth buying? No.

Is the Ferrari Enzo a good design? Yes. Could you drive this monster car to work and back and also do the shopping in it? No.

If they wanted to show the world how good they are at pushing the envelope, they could start by fixing their god-awful build quality, then putting proper 24-bit displays in their laptops instead of some tired old 18-bit displays. If they did that I would buy a new laptop, actually I need one as some bastard stole my laptop on Friday in Brussels. I want from Apple, a no compromise 17" 1080p 4gig, 320gb monster that can do anything a desktop machine can do, not a piece of cack that looks good on a coffee table in StarBucks.

electrikalex
Jan 16, 2008, 07:14 AM
I totally agree with everything you've said...

1 little problem. I've bin looking forwards to getting this for nearly a year now and now its out, its so tempting to get one. Is it really that bad to get now?

cmcbridejr
Jan 16, 2008, 07:15 AM
Thanks for putting this post out there.

I am sick of all the whiners and complainers who just can't be satisfied because they can't look past yesterday's technology.

Well done!

edesignuk
Jan 16, 2008, 07:15 AM
I want from Apple, a no compromise 17" 1080p 4gig, 320gb monster that can do anything a desktop machine can do, not a piece of cack that looks good on a coffee table in StarBucks.That's just spiffy, and that's what you want. Doesn't mean there aren't plenty of business travellers for whom the spec of this machine is more than they will ever need, and that value size and weight enormously when considering a purchase.

The MBA quite clearly isn't for everyone, but just because certain people didn't get exactly what they want doesn't make it a useless ill-conceived product.

I think Stuart in Oz hit the nail on the head in many respects. I have no doubt features seen in this currently expensive laptop will soon be seen in a budget MB near you.

asrmatt
Jan 16, 2008, 07:19 AM
Totally and completely.

Aries326
Jan 16, 2008, 07:20 AM
How many of you guys here have a main PC and then a laptop? Those are the people that the MacBook Air targets. I do all my burning, dvd ripping, main data storage, etc. on my Shuttle SFF PC. I've got my laptop to use when I'm out on the road. Am I the type to watch movies when I'm on the plane? Nope. Even if I was and I purchased the MBA, look at how Apple is trying to converge everything. Steve probably would want you to rent a bunch of movies, or buy or convert a bunch of movies, store them on your iMac/PowerMac, send some to your MacBook Air and then go out on the road with this superthin laptop.

Another application for this laptop is for business. We've got laptops all over the hospital and office. Do they all need to be these huge desktop replacements? Do they all need DVD players or harddrives? No. All we need these laptops to be are terminals. Same thing in education. Do you think these kids need all that extra HD space or a DVD drive?

I think this is where MacBook Air comes in. Look at how ugly the Dell 13" laptops are compared to this. Steve is just covering another niche in the computing world that Apple has yet to address. This wasn't meant to be something revolutionary, or a big ugly desktop replacement. This is meant for people who just want something that a laptop is supposed to be. Your second on-the-go computer.

verhasst
Jan 16, 2008, 07:32 AM
I totally agree with your sentiment. I would never buy it, but I've been showing it off to all my friends because it's and amazing piece of technology.

saltyzoo
Jan 16, 2008, 07:39 AM
The OP makes excellent points. Honestly, Apple probably won't sell many of these in 2008. But that's not the point. They are building an image. They are looking to the future. In 10 years all laptops will be more like the MBA than the MB or MBP in a lot of ways. That's the point that Apple, and the OP is making.

pilotError
Jan 16, 2008, 07:49 AM
Overall I think its a great laptop for a Sales guy that's lugging the thing around all day.

I'm a little surprised that Intel went and shrunk the package for them, but couldn't convince Apple to go with the WiMax enabled chip. I know Intel makes the all-in-one chips now, I'd be interested in seeing which wireless chipset is in the thing. I wasn't impressed by Big Steve's "most advanced wireless" claim.

Not that WiMax is big now, but in the next year or so, were going to see some good things come around. Unfortunately, there isn't ANY expandability on this thing.

This isn't really a consumer laptop, which is probably why you see all the negative votes. I think this is the start of things to come for the bigger laptops, especially with Greenpeace on their Butts about Eco-Friendly manufacturing.

I guess we'll see what happens when the thing actually starts shipping ;)

anti-microsoft
Jan 16, 2008, 07:51 AM
Great Post.

The MacBook Air is not a pro machine nor a consumer one. Its either for people that travel quite a lot, have an iMac/Mac Pro/Mac mini and want something light to take around or for apple fanatics.
This notebook is not supposed to have massive performance levels, because, like I said before its not a pro. People want it for media: photos, music, movie clips, internet browsing...

toke lahti
Jan 16, 2008, 07:58 AM
Fixed battery with poor life? The battery industry is promising new generation batteries by around 2010 with double the current life and 5 minute recharging times (do a Google search - look for Hitachi especially).

By 2010 you've bought your 3rd MBA for daily use, because of non-changeable battery. If you like to buy a whole laptop instead of new battery, just keep buing MBAs every year. Share holders will be pleased.

harmonica01
Jan 16, 2008, 08:00 AM
I think the Air is genius in its own world of thin laptops. However, 4 months after purchasing my 2.4 and still using a USB 1.0 hub for my palm and officejet pro, and then firewire 400 for my neptune 250gig external...im starting to see how quickly space can be filled for a full time student.

Apple failed to recognize that the majority of their laptop sales have gone to college students, freshmen in particular. I know at my campus of nearly 40k ppl, 4 years ago when I popped out my laptop for my first class's lecture, I got eyes staring at it wondering what the heck my powerbook g4 aluminum 12" was. That was a SLICK portable computer, but since then I've gone to the 15" line and have been with it since my sophomore fall semester. New users to Macs who don't have very demanding agendas for their laptops buy the macbook - i even got one for my ex last summer.

The macbooks though, have reasonable power to do some graphics work in iMovie and other fun apps that apple has introduced. Is this air laptop worth anything with the limited space capabilities? Why isnt there an option for a bigger HD, I understand the 4200 rpm reasons - its a tiny laptop.

This laptop as somebody pointed out is little more than an accessory item to show your wealth. They really should have taken the macbook setup, and shrunk it by .2-.3 inches making it .8 inches think that would be a very attractive comp for college students as we always are looking for smaller computing.

Maybe if I were blessed with a mac pro, I could justify using such a tiny, weak laptop - but as it is - my macbook pro 2.4 has what I need in a computer so that I can design my documentary films in iMovie HD, set em up clean with magic DVD in iDvd, while thats going on have the power to be syncing my iPod and time machine backing up, while loading to my palm a new version of Chess, downloading PDF files to save away for debate classes, printing those that need to be - running safari checking out my forums, checking my major emails in Mail Client while browsing through downloaded youtube films or the iTunes store all without taking a beating anywhere in speed.

the 160 gig HD my macbook came with has after 4 months of exhaustive senior honors program here - a whopping 8gig available. Got it, all new software, one on one (which has never turned out to be necessary), and pro care with the standard apple care warranty for 3.000. Now my next upgrade is hopefully being developed by hitachi for a 250gig 7200rpm 2.5" internal hdd which would make me happy. Otherwise I am prolly gonna end up getting the 320gig 5400 from WD though I never have liked them the reviews are going well for it. More than what I can say for the stock HD which has been replaced already.

Just my 2 cents on the macbook line up. The Pro with student discount is same as the new Air's price. But the Air has 2 options that double its price instead of 5 options that make it a variable portable laptop. I can't see myself in near years trying to compromise anything to get an air laptop unless I stumble upon a more powerful mac Pro which leaves me hanging when I need to do work in the 12 hours on campus each day.

Oh well, all the best to Apple, Jobs usually catches on quick if something is wrong, and who knows I might even end up being off center with my problems with the laptop. All I can testify is that a lil fatter than what it came it but having triple the features probably should have been introduced along with this Air if they were wanting to continue their momentum in the laptop field

edesignuk
Jan 16, 2008, 08:01 AM
By 2010 you've bought your 3rd MBA for daily use, because of non-changeable battery. If you like to buy a whole laptop instead of new battery, just keep buing MBAs every year. Share holders will be pleased.You need to do your research before making statements like that. The battery is not non-changeable, it's just not user-changeable. Apple will replace the battery for you for only the cost of the battery (http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/macbook-air-battery-replacements-129-free-install/) (US$129) - no install fee.

illitrate23
Jan 16, 2008, 08:02 AM
I want from Apple, a no compromise 17" 1080p 4gig, 320gb monster that can do anything a desktop machine can do, not a piece of cack that looks good on a coffee table in StarBucks.and that is a Pro spec machine. so either get a desktop machine, or get a macbook pro. the macbook air is not aimed at your niche
it's aimed at my niche where my desktop macs are the ones i do all the heavy workload on and i just need a laptop for light work and travel

look at it this way - if they'd given you your updated MBP yesterday, what would have to look forward to for the rest of the year? :D

arkitect
Jan 16, 2008, 08:02 AM
By 2010 you've bought your 3rd MBA for daily use, because of non-changeable battery. If you like to buy a whole laptop instead of new battery, just keep buing MBAs every year.

What? That makes no sense at all… in fact it is just plain wrong and misinformed. :rolleyes: :confused:

Tosser
Jan 16, 2008, 08:03 AM
That's just spiffy, and that's what you want. Doesn't mean there aren't plenty of business travellers for whom the spec of this machine is more than they will ever need, and that value size and weight enormously when considering a purchase.

The MBA quite clearly isn't for everyone, but just because certain people didn't get exactly what they want doesn't make it a useless ill-conceived product.

I think Stuart in Oz hit the nail on the head in many respects. I have no doubt features seen in this currently expensive laptop will soon be seen in a budget MB near you.

What features? It looks like the trackpad (except for shape) is the same as in the MBP, and all that wifi stuff is software based too.

The "features" you speak of is "non-features", except for the weight and the optional SSD. They're nonfeatures, because it really isn't anything more than omissions and downgrades in a pretty shelll. Hell, even the screen is exactly the same as in the current MacBook.
You too speak of size, but the computer has the same footprint as the current MacBook, and it really isn't that thin. No matter how it looks from great angles, it's still not thinner than it's wides point, just like a car isn't, say, 1 metre tall, just because the bonnet (hood for you americans) is at that height. You have to include the roof too, you know.

pa31t
Jan 16, 2008, 08:04 AM
I totaly agree, most every body missed the point with this machine, it is not meant to replace or improve on the MB or MBP. If it does not have the features you need (or think you need) it is not for you! get a MB or MBP, Apple still sells them! and will upgrade them soon enough (well maybe not soon enough for some..) This is a new product for road warriors who need a very light and thin computer (think carry on bag only on a 2 week trip!) for basic tasks and have a full featured power machine at home. Wireless is the way of the future! I like this computer a lot and don't need what it does not have (my iMac does), and soon enough the solid state drive prices will drop and size increase and I'll get one! $3088 ouch!

Phil A.
Jan 16, 2008, 08:05 AM
The MacBook Air is an awesome piece of kit and fits my requirements perfectly: I am a professional developer and work most of the time on my Mac Pro. However, I need to visit clients on occasion to attend meetings, gather requirements and demonstrate products. I'm currently lugging around an MBP for this but that will soon be getting swapped out for an MBA - every ounce of weight saved is a godsend when tramping across London on the Tube!
Personally, I can't wait

arkitect
Jan 16, 2008, 08:05 AM
it really isn't that thin.

:eek::eek::eek::confused::confused::confused: Grief. What would you be satisfied with?

rjflyn
Jan 16, 2008, 08:06 AM
As well if you think the price of the AIR is too much, just wait 2-3 months. Then look at the refurb store. With any luck you should be able to find them at anywhere from 15-30% cheaper. That is $1529 - or lower if we are lucky. I know I got my $1499 ibook at $1299 at the time.

Rj

edesignuk
Jan 16, 2008, 08:08 AM
What features? It looks like the trackpad (except for shape) is the same as in the MBP, and all that wifi stuff is software based too.It supports multi-touch like gestures for one thing. Has 802.11n + BT2.1 (not unique I realise, but it's still all crammed in there never the less).
The "features" you speak of is "non-features", except for the weight and the optional SSD. They're nonfeatures, because it really isn't anything more than omissions and downgrades in a pretty shelll. Hell, even the screen is exactly the same as in the current MacBook.
You too speak of size, but the computer has the same footprint as the current MacBook, and it really isn't that thin.Intel actually shrunk the chip for them, this is pretty significant going forward. The displays are LED backlit, so not the same as the MacBook as you suggest.

How can you say it isn't very thin? I mean really, how? It's *the* thinnest laptop in the world (apparently). To say it isn't thin is just nonsense.

Nice choice of username btw, very apt. :rolleyes:

sigamy
Jan 16, 2008, 08:14 AM
I agree with the OP. Apple's bread and butter is to differentiate their products from the rest of the world. They do that, typically, by better design. This means high quality design of both hardware and software.

Apple takes risks in moving things forward. "Features" such as dropping ethernet, a built-in battery and no optical drive are controvsial and will definetly force some potential customers to walk away from the Air.

Apple is fine with building niche machines (on a niche platform) almost as proof of concepts. We've had the Cube, the mini, and now the Air. These are machines that many view as crippled or missing features but they definetly push the world of design forward.

I hate to say it but they are trying to "think outside the box". Just look at the multi-touch gestures in the Air. This is going to be huge. Every laptop will have this in 5 years.

Steve Jobs has always done this. He was the first to include a re-writeable Magnetic Optical drive way back in the NeXT machines. It was buggy, expensive and many thought he was nuts. He dropped floppy drives in the original iMac. First to ship 802.11. He goes for the next thing before anyone else even thinks that it is the next thing. For that I admire him and Apple.

One more thought on the optical drive....Does Apple have a hidden agenda in reducing the world's reliance (and usage) of phyiscal DVD media? (iTunes, iPod, iPhone anyone?)

Tosser
Jan 16, 2008, 08:15 AM
I totaly agree, most every body missed the point with this machine, it is not meant to replace or improve on the MB or MBP. If it does not have the features you need (or think you need) it is not for you! get a MB or MBP, Apple still sells them! and will upgrade them soon enough (well maybe not soon enough for some..) This is a new product for road warriors who need a very light and thin computer (think carry on bag only on a 2 week trip!) for basic tasks and have a full featured power machine at home. Wireless is the way of the future! I like this computer a lot and don't need what it does not have (my iMac does), and soon enough the solid state drive prices will drop and size increase and I'll get one! $3088 ouch!

LOL, I can carry my telephone hybrid (Eela for my cell), my recorder (1,3kgs/2.5 lbs without extra batteries and microphones etc) and my MBP 15" and still have room for what I need on a three or four week trip in my carry-on. In fact, anything more than two weeks, and the time spent doesn't really matter.

I think a night spend on www.onebag.net will do you well :p

Seriously, though, there are better choices out there, if you want to carry-on. This one is actually rather big. No matter how few CC's they say it is, ou will still have to put in something that will shield it, and unless you have some zipper-case, it will have to be as thick as the macbook at it's thickest point.

darthraige
Jan 16, 2008, 08:18 AM
Awesome post. Yea, my next laptop will be the MacBook Air. Love it.

hagjohn
Jan 16, 2008, 08:19 AM
I agree with the first post but I also disagree. I don't think it's a very useful laptop for a whole lot of people and I think some of those who do buy will have buyers remorse in a couple months.

Just a few issues...

- It's thin but not very small
- non replaceable battery.
- no built in wired ethernet
- 1 USB, no firewire

The USB/firewire and the battery replacement is the biggest, I think.

Tosser
Jan 16, 2008, 08:36 AM
It supports multi-touch like gestures for one thing. Has 802.11n + BT2.1 (not unique I realise, but it's still all crammed in there never the less).
Intel actually shrunk the chip for them, this is pretty significant going forward. The displays are LED backlit, so not the same as the MacBook as you suggest.

How can you say it isn't very thin? I mean really, how? It's *the* thinnest laptop in the world (apparently). To say it isn't thin is just nonsense.

Nice choice of username btw, very apt. :rolleyes:

Well, after having received threats on my life on another forum becuase I was stupid enough to use a nick that was easily deciphered as my real name, I had to come up with something. I like the word in itself. I think you have to be out of reach to try and use that as some sort of let-down.

Anyhoo – as someone else have mentioned, Intel already made a very small prototype to show of as an ultralight example for all the others. Further, I doubt that Apple had to "convince" them. It propably has more to do with Apple having a first go with Intel's new processor (i.e. and the deal includes what journalists call "an exclusive". I seriously doubt that processor is only made because apple wanted to put it into an untested computer selling to an untried (for Apple) segment.

Yes, yes, it's thin, but really - the thinnest ever? Are you sure it's not the G5-fastest-computer-in-the-world over again? What makes the alarm bells ring in relation to that claim is that they felt it necessary to say that the computer is both this thickness and that thickness.

Hm, LED-backlit? Sure. I am no computer-wiz, I prefer to actually do something else. But it seems all laptops are going back-lit, quite a few are already, and for all intents and purposes it's the exact same as in the MacBook: Both are glossy, both are the exact same dimensions, both have the same resolution. And in a month the "LED backlit" will be silently introduced to the MacBook. Not that it matters, because, as I said, for all intents and purposes it's the exact same. It's nothing more than a month's wait or so, and presto, it will be in the Macbook, because that is propably what the screen was intended for: College movie watchers and other people that really like glossy things.

With regards to the multitouch: Yes, it does. My point was, that technically it doesn't look like there would be any problem having the MBP-touchpad do the same. I am well aware that it doesn't as of now. I am saying it looks like the hardware is the same, although shaped a little different. I am saying that if Apple wanted to, they could make the same things possible in an MBP. I don't know if scrolling and so forth is supported on the MBs, but my guess is that it is. and if so, even there, it's just like a thinned and stripped MB. Only Apple chose to not update the MBs and MBPs to do this too: It's all software based.

tratclif
Jan 16, 2008, 08:37 AM
I've been wondering if this is the first Mac that is not aimed primarily at the US market.

Sub-notebooks and ultra-mobile laptops are still new in the US, but they are a big thing in Japan. Apple has a reputation for innovation, but they had a huge hole in their lineup for the Japanese market.

I'm not expecting a repeat of the infamous "Thread #500" which holds Macrumor readers' responses to the iPod ("No one will buy an Apple MP3 player!! The company is going down the tubes!!"). I am expecting the MBA to sell modestly and profitably in the US, maybe as well at the 17" MBP, and start Apple building in Japan.

ThunderLounge
Jan 16, 2008, 08:39 AM
1. Wireless is slow.
2. Wireless is insecure.
3. It's expensive.
4. For the extra cost you can have half the features.

If you want to see show ponies go buy a horse because this particular machine is way overpriced and way under featured.

That's not true at all. Did you see the Sony(s) this was designed to compete against? For the market it's in, it's a pretty good deal. It's not like the other offerings in this market area have the features a MBP does, and Apple just put out some crap.

For the market area, it's quite competitive.

Wireless is only insecure when it's incorrectly implemented. And Gigabits per second is slow? Huh? I'll take it over a 100MB ethernet any day of the week.

I agree with the first post but I also disagree. I don't think it's a very useful laptop for a whole lot of people and I think some of those who do buy will have buyers remorse in a couple months.

Just a few issues...

- It's thin but not very small
- non replaceable battery.
- no built in wired ethernet
- 1 USB, no firewire

The USB/firewire and the battery replacement is the biggest, I think.

- An inch less in screen size (which wouldn't exactly be a full inch) wouldn't really make that big of a difference.

- A user can't replace the battery, but it can be replaced.

- $29 and you have an ethernet connection.

- You can get a small USB hub, and cheap. It's not that big of a deal.

-----


Nice post OP. You're getting pretty warm, I think.

For whom this product is targeted, it's a pretty good hit.

Tosser
Jan 16, 2008, 08:40 AM
Btw:

. To say it isn't thin is just nonsense.



I actually never said that - I said "it really isn't _that_ thin", although I didn't emphasize the word "that", it's still quite a big difference.

arkitect
Jan 16, 2008, 08:46 AM
I actually never said that - I said "it really isn't _that_ thin", although I didn't emphasize the word "that", it's still quite a big difference.

So… what exactly is thin in your book?

My iPhone is 11.6mm thick… It is super thin…
This MBA is 4mm to 19mm thick.

OMG :eek::eek: Now that you mention it is f**ng huge! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

appletastic
Jan 16, 2008, 08:48 AM
The MacBook Air is an awesome piece of kit and fits my requirements perfectly: I am a professional developer and work most of the time on my Mac Pro. However, I need to visit clients on occasion to attend meetings, gather requirements and demonstrate products. I'm currently lugging around an MBP for this but that will soon be getting swapped out for an MBA - every ounce of weight saved is a godsend when tramping across London on the Tube!
Personally, I can't wait

I completely agree - I run my own design agency with my wife. I use my Mac Pro in the office and then when I am visiting clients I take my Powerbook 12 inch. I am now in need of a replacement and the Macbook Air suits my needs exactly.

I didnt want a macbook as I need to look a little more professional (and not like a student) and the 15 inch MBP is just too damn big.

I never use ethernet, the dvd drive, nor any real peripherals so this should be perfect..

People who complain could just as easily complain that the Mac Pro is too big.. or the mac mini is too small ..? Some people are never happy

skinnylegs
Jan 16, 2008, 08:53 AM
Your post should be required reading. Outstanding write.

wordmunger
Jan 16, 2008, 08:56 AM
Battery replacement is $129 (http://blogs.computerworld.com/macbook_airs_thin_line_love_hate_and_harry_notter), same as on a macbook. Sure, you have to turn it over to Apple for replacement, but this happens, what, once in a computer's lifetime?

Tosser
Jan 16, 2008, 09:03 AM
So… what exactly is thin in your book?
Do we have a language barrier here, or what is wrong?

This MBA is 4mm to 19mm thick.
No it's not. It's 19mm thick. Put it in an room in, say, a desk, with less height than 19mm and you will realise it is 19mm thick. Not less than that.

When they claim it's the thinnest notebook in the world, and they claim that it is 4mm thick _as well_ as being 19mm thick. And they show pictures of it from the best angles possible. And I react to that with "it's not _that_ thin", I am of course referring to the fact, that it's not as thin as they would have you to believe. It's not somewhere in between the two. It is in fact just under 2 cm or 4/5ths of an inch thick. Now if you remember the tibook, that was an inch thick, and they couldn't make it thinner because of the optical drive. This has no optical drive and uses a slim iPod drive, and compared to that, it really isn't _that_ slim.


My iPhone is 11.6mm thick… It is super thin…

Well, my SGH-X820 is slimmer.

OMG :eek::eek: Now that you mention it is f**ng huge! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yes, yes, we all have language problems from time to time. And in fact, the iPhone is quite cumbersome if thought of as a non-3G phone, which I assume it is, with that name and being non-3G.

I never said the MBA was "huge", I said: It really isn't THAT(!!) thin.
Imagine that. If they had made go from a thickness of, say, 16mm to 16mm (yikes! no taper) it would be thinner –*but they propabl wouldn't be able to claim it to be thinnest ever.

arkitect
Jan 16, 2008, 09:07 AM
Do we have a language barrier here, or what is wrong?

No, Tosser, we do not have a language barrier here.

Consultant
Jan 16, 2008, 09:21 AM
Tosser, perhaps the reason someone found your real name in another forum and contacted you might be because the person in your mirror that is the problem. :rolleyes:

Anyway, this is a good article.


For anyone who does not have the budget for such a cutting edge device, read:

"The price is competitive with other laptops in its market segment." [CNN.com]

In addition, the solid state drive costs about $1000 alone in a 2.5" form factor. To have it in 1.8" form factor should be even MORE expensive.

averyash
Jan 16, 2008, 09:25 AM
Seriously, though, there are better choices out there, if you want to carry-on. This one is actually rather big. No matter how few CC's they say it is, ou will still have to put in something that will shield it, and unless you have some zipper-case, it will have to be as thick as the macbook at it's thickest point.

Rather big in comparison to what? An iPod? A magazine? Seriously.

This is in fact the thinnest laptop out there, and that's what matters to most travelers. I'm going to assume that Tosser is refering to the "footprint" of the MBA and how there's not that much difference between the MacBook and this. This has been getting lots of attention here on MR, but from the perspective of many potential buyers, this is plus, not a drawback. Full-size keyboard, reasonable screen size, it feels like a real laptop when open, but when you close it, it's thin. That is what a lot of people are looking for.

Let's think about where people put their laptop when traveling primarlily a backpack or briefcase. With either of these choices, thin is what matters. As someone who traveled with a 12" PowerBook G4 for nearly three years, what you might not know is that the 12" PowerBook (1.18") was actually THICKER than either the 15" or 17" PowerBooks (1.1"). When you're putting your computer vertically in a backpack or briefcase, finding a laptop that is thin is much more desirable than one with a small footprint.

I would be very interested to hear why all of the proponents of a reduced footprint for their laptop are privileging footprint over thinness.

Tosser
Jan 16, 2008, 09:27 AM
No, Tosser, we do not have a language barrier here.
Well apparently you don't understand the word "that".

Tosser, perhaps the reason someone found your real name in another forum and contacted you might be because the person in your mirror that is the problem. :rolleyes:

Yes, rolleyes indeed. Because if someone disagrees enough with another person it's a-okay to make threats and send letters that say they will come and kill you. What logic. Are you living in the middle ages or something?

In reality you're not only saying the above, you're actually saying it is okay to threaten people to silence if they disagree with you. You guys are the best. I really like your understanding of democracy and freedom of speech and how those two go hand in hand.

sushi
Jan 16, 2008, 09:28 AM
The MBA is perfect for the mobile professional who needs some power but wants to reduce their carry weight.

A pound here, a pound there, doesn't sound like much but it adds up.

I really like the concept of the MBA. Personally, I am a little disappointed that Apple did not go with a 12 inch display with more of an ultra-portable form factor. But I do see the market that they are going after and think that the MBA will be a smashing success.

And you know, that within a year, we will probably see:
- 160GB HD
- 4GB RAM
- 1.8 to 2.0GHz CPU speeds
...and maybe stereo speakers.

WolfDad
Jan 16, 2008, 09:29 AM
Anyone who really needs access to a wired port for the MBA should just buy a $99 AirPort Express. It will synch right in to the MBA and provide not only an ethernet adapter but USB as well.:apple:

ScottFitz
Jan 16, 2008, 09:32 AM
I am the MacBook Air's primary target. I'm a 46 year old guy that travels on business two or three weeks a month. I'm constantly on the move. I need a highly portable laptop that weighs in at next to nothing. I need it to be able to access the internet from my hotel (going to need to buy the dongle or better yet, a airport express for creating my own wireless network in the hotel). I do not need it for entertainment. I have an ipod touch that works well for that. But, that said, I've ripped a butt-load of DVD's for my touch that I could just move over to the MBA.

The video out feature for hooking up to a powerpoint projector is the other big need. AGain, a dongle is there for that.

My only goal will be to talk my IT guys into putting Parallels on one and then loading up the contact manager software that our corp uses. It's only available for WinXp. That completely blows. But, Parallels should fix that.

And, generally, my demographic has no issue dropping 2 large on a laptop.

gwangung
Jan 16, 2008, 09:42 AM
Rather big in comparison to what? An iPod? A magazine? Seriously.

This is in fact the thinnest laptop out there, and that's what matters to most travelers. I'm going to assume that Tosser is refering to the "footprint" of the MBA and how there's not that much difference between the MacBook and this. This has been getting lots of attention here on MR, but from the perspective of many potential buyers, this is plus, not a drawback. Full-size keyboard, reasonable screen size, it feels like a real laptop when open, but when you close it, it's thin. That is what a lot of people are looking for.

DING! DING! DING!

People are defining subcompact by dimensions. Apple is defining it by weight. I suspect that the segment the Air is aimed to will also define it by weight.

Also...consider the AGE of that segment. I suspect they'll appreciate a large enough screen to show stuff without scrunching down the type size too much....

Tosser
Jan 16, 2008, 09:44 AM
Rather big in comparison to what? An iPod? A magazine? Seriously.
Footprint. You guys are coming up with all sorts of uses where an UMPC or ultraportable (with a small screen) would be perfect. In comparison to that, a footprint the size of a MacBook isn't what I would call "tiny". In fact, it's almost as big as my MBP15" because of that bezel. That, to me, is "rather big".

This is in fact the thinnest laptop out there[quote]
Really? A fact? Did you check? Are you certain that there is no other computer out there (with a keyboard) thinner than 19mm?

[quote]I'm going to assume that Tosser is refering to the "footprint" of the MBA and how there's not that much difference between the MacBook and this.
Yup.

This has been getting lots of attention here on MR, but from the perspective of many potential buyers, this is plus, not a drawback. Full-size keyboard, reasonable screen size
Really? That bezel and the area around the keyboard is a plus? How is that benificial to anything?

it feels like a real laptop when open, but when you close it, it's thin. That is what a lot of people are looking for.

Well, some, at least.


Let's think about where people put their laptop when traveling primarlily a backpack or briefcase. With either of these choices, thin is what matters.
You're kidding right? So when I travel with my laptop, I only care about "thin"?
Nice of you to tell me. If you have said weight, I might have agreed quite a bit.

As someone who traveled with a 12" PowerBook G4 for nearly three years, what you might not know is that the 12" PowerBook (1.18") was actually THICKER than either the 15" or 17" PowerBooks (1.1"). When you're putting your computer vertically in a backpack or briefcase, finding a laptop that is thin is much more desirable than one with a small footprint.

Okay, so by your logic, it would be better to travel with a 15" og 17" MBP than a 12" PB all else being equal.


I would be very interested to hear why all of the proponents of a reduced footprint for their laptop are privileging footprint over thinness.

To me it's several things, but in essense: You can have the same screen, have a slimmer bezel, less useless space, the screen (assuming it would be a little smaller) would be less prone to be twisted or pressed in the bag (because a taller box will inherently be stronger than a thinner one, I could get my firewire, which I need to make a living. Well there are others, more specific ones, like placing the computer in a smaller pocket, somewhere else in the bag and so on, plus a few other.

appletastic
Jan 16, 2008, 09:58 AM
I could get my firewire, which I need to make a living.

Wow you make a living with Firewire..? What do you do? You defo shouldn't by a MBA then otherwise you'll be buggered.

Tosser
Jan 16, 2008, 10:05 AM
Wow you make a living with Firewire..? What do you do? You defo shouldn't by a MBA then otherwise you'll be buggered.

Well, it's nothing speciel per se, but I use it for my audio recorder. Which, I might add, is worth much more than the computer. Both in terms of what it delivers, but also in cold cash. I will not use some inferior recorder just to be able to buy a computer that "looks great".
Not in a million years.

This is one of them: Not used for travel(!)
http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/index.php
And this is the other:
http://sounddevices.com/products/744t.htm

eddietr
Jan 16, 2008, 10:07 AM
The OP makes a couple of good points.

Enclosures don't change that often. The MBA as an enclosure will start to look very interesting next year when 128GB SSD is affordable and when they start shipping with next-gen batteries after that.

And, as others have said, this is also a somewhat of a halo product for them also.

See a guy next to you on the plane or at conference with an MBA, it will definitely get your attention. Stop by the apple store, find the MBA is too expensive or not powerful enough, but hey this MB looks interesting and it's also very nice looking, almost as nice looking as that MBA, ...

Consultant
Jan 16, 2008, 10:08 AM
Footprint... blah blah blah

The target audience is people in business. Typically business people would need to carry documents. Guess what? These documents are letter sized (or about letter size in Europe, etc.)

Are business men going to carry a purse sized bag? No they will carry folio sized or briefcase size bag/ cases. Thus the footprint don't matter. If it's any smaller, it will slide around the case / bag and be more prone to damage.

17" MBP is easier to carry, at least for me, than a 14" dell that is thick, heavy, and need a thick bag for the big power brick.

Standard, full sized keyboard will be very useful, as people can actually touch type (much harder on a purse sized keyboard). No one else has implemented useful multi-touch or gestures on a portable.

I think someone is having sour grape syndrome.

Sir Pancakes
Jan 16, 2008, 10:13 AM
The forums can be so pointless sometimes.

Tosser
Jan 16, 2008, 10:14 AM
Nobody said it shouldn't have a full sized keyboard. I'm all for full sized keyboards. But had they made some other design choices it could weigh the same, yet have a smaller footprint.

I don't get the comparison with a 14" Dell at all. If they had made it square, say, 18mm all over, they could have fitted a somewhat bigger and/or faster drive and have had at least two or three ports. That's not many ports, but it's 2-3 times as much as what is currently there. Heck, they could have had user-replacable RAM. AND it would be stronger.

eddietr
Jan 16, 2008, 10:17 AM
The target audience is people in business. Typically business people would need to carry documents. Guess what? These documents are letter sized (or about letter size in Europe, etc.)

Are business men going to carry a purse sized bag? No they will carry folio sized or briefcase size bag/ cases.

Absolutely agreed. I don't want a loaded bag that is less wide or less "tall". I want one that is slimmer and lighter. Those are the most important dimensions for me.

I'm looking at bags this weekend again. Something slim that can carry the MBA and a standard 8.5x11 leather portfolio. That would be perfect.

eddietr
Jan 16, 2008, 10:21 AM
Nobody said it shouldn't have a full sized keyboard. I'm all for full sized keyboards. But had they made some other design choices it could weigh the same, yet have a smaller footprint.

I don't get the comparison with a 14" Dell at all. If they had made it square, say, 18mm all over, they could have fitted a somewhat bigger and/or faster drive and have had at least two or three ports. That's not many ports, but it's 2-3 times as much as what is currently there. Heck, they could have had user-replacable RAM. AND it would be stronger.

Sounds like what you want is the next-gen MacBook. Now that Apple has LED backlighting and they have obviously consolidated the Mac chipset and motherboard, in all likelihood the next MB will be thinner and exactly what you want.

Brotherman00
Jan 16, 2008, 10:21 AM
I agree completley with the originator of this post. One point I think everyone is missing here is that there is a reason why Apple dubbed this machine Mac Book Air not Mac Book Utra Thin or whatever.

Consider this, Apple introduced Back To My Mac with it's latest OS along with the ability to sychronize both your desktop and notebook with the help of .Mac. Now Time Capsule has been released which is a combination of wireless ("Air") as well as 500 GB or 1 TB of storage space. And if you recall, you can "share" the drive of your desktop or other mac machine with the MBA as well.

By now you should see the point I'm trying to make. Apple has put all the wheels in motion for you to make the MOST use out of the MBA without all the bells and whistles people are complaining about.

Apple foresees a future when everything is done seamlessly through the use of wireless technology. Everyone should open their eyes! This is just the beginning, I can't just imagine what the future holds.

:D:D:D

Tosser
Jan 16, 2008, 10:22 AM
Footprint... blah blah blah

I see you added something. Is that a way of showing how you read things? That you simply cannot fathom more than a few words, unless people are agreeing with you? Or that you have a _very_ short attention span?

Are business men going to carry a purse sized bag? No they will carry folio sized or briefcase size bag/ cases. Thus the footprint don't matter. If it's any smaller, it will slide around the case / bag and be more prone to damage.

You're kidding right? At one stage you're arguing it's great to have thin computer - even if it's 17", yet you're saying that if it's too small it will slide around and be damaged! Ever heard of a pocket or even a strap? A 17" or a thin computer is much more prone to damage, simply because it inherently is a weaker (litteraly) design.


17" MBP is easier to carry, at least for me, than a 14" dell that is thick, heavy, and need a thick bag for the big power brick.

You're making a pure strawman argument. I have never said anything about me wanting a 14" thick dell, with a thick bag and big power brick. Get real, will you? It's really starting to become tiring reading your replies - Anything that can be used as pushing the MBA as the end-all "business computer" is used. Arguments are not listened to, and you even stoop as low as to using ridiculous strawman arguments.



Standard, full sized keyboard will be very useful, as people can actually touch type (much harder on a purse sized keyboard). No one else has implemented useful multi-touch or gestures on a portable.

I think someone is having sour grape syndrome.[/QUOTE]

benfilan
Jan 16, 2008, 10:25 AM
great post, great points.
i remember buying a external floppy drive for my iMac way back, and thinking 'oh my god, how the hell will I cope?!', but with broadband, writeable CD's, floppies are a distant memory. (thank god)

The Macbook Air can't be everything to everybody, stop complaining. if it doesn't suit you, don't get it. if you like it, buy it!

I think its best suited to someone who already has a main machine, and a fast home network. Its not for students nor is it for people who use thier laptop as thier primary computer.

also, its a premium machine, not some bargain basement piece of tat, of course its going to be expensive!:rolleyes:

sorryiwasdreami
Jan 16, 2008, 10:29 AM
Well put, original poster.

Virgil-TB2
Jan 16, 2008, 10:30 AM
1. Wireless is slow.
2. Wireless is insecure.
3. It's expensive.
4. For the extra cost you can have half the features.

If you want to see show ponies go buy a horse because this particular machine is way overpriced and way under featured.This is just nonsense for the most part. Your bias is showing.

1. Wireless is not any slower than ethernet in practice regardless of what numbers you want to quote. I work in a University where all offices have both and there is simply no real difference between the two. Apple's wireless n is ridiculously fast.

2. Wireless *can* be insecure and securing it makes it slower and a generally crappier experience, but most people don't care. As long as your banking and email connections are encrypted, it really won't matter, and that part is up to the clients you use, not the technology itself.

3. Not expensive at all. The reason most folks have wireless at home is because for years and years now, if you went to buy a router, the wireless part has been "thrown in." It's more difficult to find gear without wireless than with nowadays.

4. The price for this MacBook Air ($1700.00), is right in the same range as other computers with similar specs, and no-one is forcing you to buy it. In particular, if your comment is aimed at the wireless part of the machine, then you could say that Apple offers twice the performance at the same cost (Wireless n in all machines for the same price).

skinnylegs
Jan 16, 2008, 10:30 AM
In terms of hardware, Apple already has the MB, the MBP the iMac and PowerMac all of which, MBP aside, have undergone redesign within the last year. The MBA simply adds another piece of hardware to the arsenal. It won't appeal to everyone but nothing does. I know there are many who were looking forward to a MBP update and it would have been nice but no doubt that is just around the corner.

My first reaction regarding the MBA was from the hip. Since then I have investigated it more and I plan on checking it out further at the Apple Store. Yeah...I may even get one because my non-Intel iBook is getting a bit dated.

I read quite a few posts on MacRumors and honestly, I think most people expect too much from Apple. I'm quite happy with where they are and where they're going. They have a great line of hardware, an outstanding OS and the iPhone and iPods speak for themselves.

I don't think MacWorld '08 was earth-shattering but all things considered, it was very compelling. Also, I am particularly interested in where Apple is going with Apple TV and wouldn't be surprised if they integrate an online guide and TV viewing in the near future.

Consultant
Jan 16, 2008, 10:30 AM
great post, great points.
i remember buying a external floppy drive for my iMac way back, and thinking 'oh my god, how the hell will I cope?!', but with broadband, writeable CD's, floppies are a distant memory. (thank god)

The Macbook Air can't be everything to everybody, stop complaining. if it doesn't suit you, don't get it. if you like it, buy it!

I think its best suited to someone who already has a main machine, and a fast home network. Its not for students nor is it for people who use thier laptop as thier primary computer.

also, its a premium machine, not some bargain basement piece of tat, of course its going to be expensive!:rolleyes:

Exactly, although some people fail to comprehend that simple concept.

MBA can actually be extremely fast with the SSD drive (faster than high speed 10k raptor!) so people will be in the market for that. You know the people who can afford MacPro with 30" cinema displays... =)

TimTheEnchanter
Jan 16, 2008, 10:33 AM
Nice post OP.

This product does also remind me of the Cube. Breakthrough design aimed at a niche market at a pricier-level. A product ahead of the curve, showcasing Apple's innovation. We all know the story of the Cube. The difference today is that the MBA has a broader appeal, so hopefully it won't suffer the same fait. While many see short-comings with this design, I see a forward-thinking product that isn't built to answer every need, but could adapt to most needs if you think different. It's a ultra-slim wireless computer in a yet wired world....that will change.

Tosser
Jan 16, 2008, 10:42 AM
Sounds like what you want is the next-gen MacBook. Now that Apple has LED backlighting and they have obviously consolidated the Mac chipset and motherboard, in all likelihood the next MB will be thinner and exactly what you want.

Well, actually, you might be right. I'd still like it without the optical, though. Fortunately for me, audio isn't that graphics-intensive (lol), so that might well be. Glossy screens are a deal breaker in any computer for me but other than that it could well be.
I'm lucky though – I have a working MBP, and I'm hoping it can last me at least six months more (it shouldn't be a problem).

ArchiMark
Jan 16, 2008, 10:45 AM
FWIW, I don't see much advantage of the new MBA vs the MB...it's just skinnier and you lose built-in ports and an optical drive and you get to buy an ethernet dongle and carry it around with you and all this for a lot more than a MB!

Much as I love Apple (using Macs since '86) and many of it's products (and it's stock), just bought a 16GB iPod Touch (great now that it's jailbroken), and mainly use a MB C2D at home.....I just don't see any real substantive laptop hardware designs coming from Apple since Pismo or Duo Dock....

I'm typing this post on the OQO E2 that I bought recently. To me this is truly an innovative hardware design, having a full OS device that can fit in my coat pocket and weighs just 1 pound! AND I have the choice of either typing OR writing on it!

Why can't I get something like this from Apple????

Before the OQO, I had the Kohjinsha 7" convertible tabletPC style device. Worked great and about half the size of a MB.

Why can't I get something like this from Apple????

Before I had the Kohji, I had the little Sony UX (kinda like an OQO on steroids...) which is quite small but not quite pocketable, but like the other devices I've mentioned allow a user to choose whether to type or write for input....Gee, what a concept, letting the user decide how to interact with their device!!!

Why can't I get something like this from Apple????

There are many more interesting/innovative hardware designs out there now; Raon Everun, HTC Shift, Samsung Q1, and many more....Unfortunately, Apple is not in this list.....

As His Steveness used to say, "THINK Different", if only they would....

:)

Mark
Faithful Macster, but very frustrated with Apple's non-innovative hardware designs....

geese
Jan 16, 2008, 10:45 AM
I really fail to see the fuss generated by the more reactionary members of MR.

As a concept in itself, the MBa isnt that radical. My girlfriend bought an IBM Thinkpad x40 a couple of years ago. It was an ultra-portable, that was slow compared to a 'normal sized' laptop of a similar price, and you had to buy the external drive separatly. Yet, it was wonderfully thin, and light. But compared to the other laptops in the IBM range (or any manufacturers laptop range) it was under-powered and under-featured.

The MBa isnt much different from the x40 in my opinion, only that Apple have pushed the concept further. Otherwise, what have they done that is radically different to what IBM did with the Thinkpad x40?

Although 1 USB port? Sort it out Apple!!

matos47
Jan 16, 2008, 10:52 AM
In my humble opinion, most of you are missing the point. Apple products are all about the accessories: cases, add-ons, and bling. And before you respond with "productivity, blah blah, ease of use, blah blah, software/hardware integration," does somebody want to help patent a MBA case/sleeve that looks like a manilla office envelope?

Maxiseller
Jan 16, 2008, 10:54 AM
I can't believe how much whining everyone did about the lack of a portable macbook pro.

So, steve read, and he's got right on it and brought out a machine that business users are going to be able to take with them to get their work done - and a fast one.

And now everyone is whining.

Go figure.

Popeye206
Jan 16, 2008, 10:55 AM
This article is dead on in my opinion. The MBA is not a laptop for everyone - it's a show of what they can do and what is to come. This is a significant advancement in mobile computing and sets the stage for some exciting innovations that I'm sure will show up in future MB and MBP's.

I think people need to quit looking for things that aren't there and look more at how amazing it is from what is there!

P.S. some poster early on complained that wireless networking was slow and unsecured.... UGH! Get with the 21st century dude - I know I'm never going back to wired!

snickelfritz
Jan 16, 2008, 10:56 AM
I agree with the OP; this notebook release was necessary for Apple to move forward to better designs.
The current MBP almost looks bulky and "dated" by comparison.

The biggest question for me is the overall density of the MBA case construction; how durable and rugged is this thing compared to other notebooks?
Is it flimsy and delicate, or is it amazingly rigid and solid like the iMac and Mac Pro?

TimTheEnchanter
Jan 16, 2008, 10:57 AM
...does somebody want to help patent a MBA case/sleeve that looks like a manilla office envelope?

LOL! I was thinking they should pack it with one! (felt inside too) :D

averyash
Jan 16, 2008, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by averyash
Rather big in comparison to what? An iPod? A magazine? Seriously.

Footprint. You guys are coming up with all sorts of uses where an UMPC or ultraportable (with a small screen) would be perfect. In comparison to that, a footprint the size of a MacBook isn't what I would call "tiny". In fact, it's almost as big as my MBP15" because of that bezel. That, to me, is "rather big".

Correct. Footprint size of a MB or an MBA is not "tiny"... that is exactly the point of the rest of my intial response to you. Please read.



[quote]This is in fact the thinnest laptop out there[quote]

Really? A fact? Did you check? Are you certain that there is no other computer out there (with a keyboard) thinner than 19mm?

Sigh... perhaps you are missing the point. Have you seen the coverage of this computer? Yes, you and I, and many more on this site, with understand that the MBA is .06 inches thicker than Intel's metro. Thanks to savy touting and useful press coverage, when the average consumer thinks about buying a laptop, their first thought will be to Apple's MacBook Air, that cool and very thin new computer that Jobs, and subsequently the New York Times and the Journal, have labeled the "thinnest computer."


Quote:
I'm going to assume that Tosser is refering to the "footprint" of the MBA and how there's not that much difference between the MacBook and this.

Yup.


Maybe you didn't neet to respond with your first comment.


Quote:
This has been getting lots of attention here on MR, but from the perspective of many potential buyers, this is plus, not a drawback. Full-size keyboard, reasonable screen size

Really? That bezel and the area around the keyboard is a plus? How is that benificial to anything?

Let's wait until we get a look under the hood of the MBA... I would be surprised if there is wasted space. Sure, it would be nice to see the bezel gone, but not at the expense of thickness. Before you comment with "thickness doesn't matter, it's footprint that counts, etc." please read my intial post. This issue is covered.


Quote:
Let's think about where people put their laptop when traveling primarlily a backpack or briefcase. With either of these choices, thin is what matters.

You're kidding right? So when I travel with my laptop, I only care about "thin"?
Nice of you to tell me. If you have said weight, I might have agreed quite a bit.

Weight is important as well, but no, I'm not telling you what you care about. I think it's clear that you care much more about footprints than thickness. What I AM telling you is that when many people travel with their laptop, especially if they're on business, they care more about how thin their laptop is than how. When a computer's footprint gets smaller, it's screen gets smaller. When a computer gets thinner, this is not the case. Many people are not looking for something that feels small, they're looking for a computer that feels like a computer but that is lighter and leaves more room in a bag.

What apple has done is quite brilliant. They have created a computer that is smaller and lighter when closed, but still feels like a full-sized laptop when being used.


Quote:
As someone who traveled with a 12" PowerBook G4 for nearly three years, what you might not know is that the 12" PowerBook (1.18") was actually THICKER than either the 15" or 17" PowerBooks (1.1"). When you're putting your computer vertically in a backpack or briefcase, finding a laptop that is thin is much more desirable than one with a small footprint.

Okay, so by your logic, it would be better to travel with a 15" og 17" MBP than a 12" PB all else being equal.

No. But I would say that I could fit marginally more in a backpack moving from a 15" to a 12," because of the lack of a drop in thickness. A stack of paper gets thicker when you swap a 15" PB for a 12".

Quote:
I would be very interested to hear why all of the proponents of a reduced footprint for their laptop are privileging footprint over thinness.

To me it's several things, but in essense: You can have the same screen, have a slimmer bezel, less useless space, the screen (assuming it would be a little smaller) would be less prone to be twisted or pressed in the bag (because a taller box will inherently be stronger than a thinner one, I could get my firewire, which I need to make a living. Well there are others, more specific ones, like placing the computer in a smaller pocket, somewhere else in the bag and so on, plus a few other.

Interesting. The MBA is not for you.

d3bing
Jan 16, 2008, 10:59 AM
I understand the point of view and I agree when you talk about Apple wanting to show their "power" in the industry. Without a doubt, this is a flagship product and is not meant to sell huge numbers.

But when you say they created trends in the market (with the laptops), I don't agree. We don't see other titanum chassis or any trends from mac laptops in the market. It is even like other side, like Sony and Asus with carbon fiber ones... MacBooks and the Pros are unique and still unique in their style and feature. No one copied them (not saying bad or good, but it is just not!).

Also I didn't like much the MBA. It is thin, fantastic, amazing how Apple can do that. But not for me (and of course there are consumers!). But I believe this market is too small if compared to other she could go. If Apple wants the PORTABLE, LIGHT and WIRELESS, I think they missed some points:

- 13 inches is not ultra portable. It is small, great for travel, but not the best about portability. I'm gonna use the same example Jobs did: Sony TZ. Put this 2 together, side by side. Even though MBA is thinner, no way you can say it is SMALLER. Eye perception goes to the 11" VAIO model... (with 2 USB, ethernet, firewire, DVDRW, SD/MS slot, fingerprint, 3G and 7.5 hour battery. Not saying this was necessary to MBA, but more impressive work on Sony side than Apple).

- if we are talking about wireless, where is the 3G built in card? What if I want to rent a movie with no hotspots? Which are paid? If we talk mobility (I want my laptop whenever I want, whereever I want), I also want Internet, iTunes, emails whenever. If MBA had 3G SIM in it, that would be the true AIR. Or even WiMax, first one? Maybe too soon. But I just think it is not "Air" yet. It is missing something (which surprises me from Apple).

- I'd expect to have SSD memory already in affordable price. The difference is too much. Again, you can get a SSD 64MB VAIO TZ cheaper than that, which surprizes me again. With much more features and, I'm sorry, MORE PORTABLE and powerful.

Again - I agree with you about being a flagship model - but it could be more consumer focused as well. It is not balanced on what it offers/price paid. If it was much cheaper, it would be a hit, mass sales, no doubt.

synth3tik
Jan 16, 2008, 11:03 AM
the flaw in that logic is that Apple does not release concpets for the reason of releasing a concpet. Apple releases the MBA for people who wanted a light weight portable device. Not to prove anything to the world.

toke lahti
Jan 16, 2008, 11:04 AM
You need to do your research before making statements like that. The battery is not non-changeable, it's just not user-changeable. Apple will replace the battery for you for only the cost of the battery (http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/macbook-air-battery-replacements-129-free-install/) (US$129) - no install fee.
Sorry, my bad.
I thought MacWorld would check their info:
http://www.macworld.com/article/131604/2008/01/macbookair_reax.html

switchhitter007
Jan 16, 2008, 11:07 AM
Everyone seems to have glossed over the fact that the major engineering feat of this computer is the smaller processor and mainboard yet providing the same computing power. ....look for it it in all future iterations of macbooks ....Intel certainly didn't spend all that time squishing down the processor just for the MBA.

ArchiMark
Jan 16, 2008, 11:08 AM
I can't believe how much whining everyone did about the lack of a portable macbook pro.

So, steve read, and he's got right on it and brought out a machine that business users are going to be able to take with them to get their work done - and a fast one.

And now everyone is whining.

Go figure.

Ummm, I thought the MBP and MB were portable????

;)

toke lahti
Jan 16, 2008, 11:09 AM
Battery replacement is $129 (http://blogs.computerworld.com/macbook_airs_thin_line_love_hate_and_harry_notter), same as on a macbook. Sure, you have to turn it over to Apple for replacement, but this happens, what, once in a computer's lifetime?
Depends how you define lifetime. Battery will loose half of its capacity after 500 charges.
Maybe there will be some external batteries connected to magsafe for people who would like to carry 2 batteries or whose internal battery is getting weak...

toughboy
Jan 16, 2008, 11:11 AM
Everyone seems to have glossed over the fact that the major engineering feat of this computer is the smaller processor and mainboard yet providing the same computing power. ....look for it it in all future iterations of macbooks ....Intel certainly didn't spend all that time squishing down the processor just for the MBA.

Yes, they are smaller but they are slower too.. Thinking that Apple wont slim down the MacBooks to not to cannibalize MB Air's sales, they will prefer bigger but faster processors on regular MacBooks and MacBook Pros..

peace out

dabirdwell
Jan 16, 2008, 11:12 AM
I agree completley with the originator of this post. One point I think everyone is missing here is that there is a reason why Apple dubbed this machine Mac Book Air not Mac Book Utra Thin or whatever.

Consider this, Apple introduced Back To My Mac with it's latest OS along with the ability to sychronize both your desktop and notebook with the help of .Mac. Now Time Capsule has been released which is a combination of wireless ("Air") as well as 500 GB or 1 TB of storage space. And if you recall, you can "share" the drive of your desktop or other mac machine with the MBA as well.

By now you should see the point I'm trying to make. Apple has put all the wheels in motion for you to make the MOST use out of the MBA without all the bells and whistles people are complaining about.

Apple foresees a future when everything is done seamlessly through the use of wireless technology. Everyone should open their eyes! This is just the beginning, I can't just imagine what the future holds.

:D:D:D


This may not be a revolutionary product on its own, but it is a key incremental step in Apple's overall strategy. Steve has been setting up pins with hardware and knocking them down with software and services ever since the idea for the iPod was conceived and then followed up with the iTMS. Apple uses carefully chosen feature sets on its hardware to drive need for non-hardware services they provide. It's called horizontal integration and cross-promotion. Media delivery is absolutely the future of Apple's financial success. Steve has engineered this by using beautiful hardware to drive desire for marketplace evolution toward web delivery of content, and now, with the iPhone, AppleTV and MBA, wireless delivery of content. They have followed through masterfully on the promise of changing the face of the content industries, and believe me, the MBA is just one step closer to a completely untethered world. Steve is preparing us for what he already knows is to come.

As for me, I'm not selling my shares just yet... Apple is positioning themselves to rule the world.

rdbarnes
Jan 16, 2008, 11:12 AM
I think it is amusing that so many people get so upset that Apple released a product that isn't right for them.

Many of the posters may be too young to remember a time when portable computers and notebooks were used by business people who traveled for their work. Today, laptops are ubiquitous; people use them as their only computer. They place them on desks and hook up peripherals to them and wired ethernet. They may take them out and about once in a while, that's why laptops are so great, but they need the functionality of a desktop. The Macbook Air is obviously not a desktop replacement laptop. It is not suitable to be the only computer that someone has. It is for someone like me that travels a great deal, makes presentations, checks emails, writes articles. I have a Mac Pro at the office and a Macbook Pro at home, but lugging the 15" MBP on an airplane and especially trying to use it on the plane is a real pain. It is too heavy and the screen is too big. I had contemplated buying a 13" Macbook just for this reason, but the Macbook Air is much sexier and image matters when you are trying to sell your work. The target demographic for this laptop has a hefty IT budget and IT people who don't flinch at ordering a $3k laptop for the boss. It is not meant for college students--it is meant for their professors who can charge the laptop to a grant.

I think the original poster is dead on, although I think people are underestimating how many Apple will sell. There is a reason that UMPCs aren't really selling. I don't want a tiny little screen and a half-hearted processor. I want something that is basically a full sized laptop that is as light and thin in my bag as possible. I ordered a 1.8GHz SSD Macbook Air this morning.

For those of you who don't want one now. Don't worry about it. You'll want one 4 years from now.

toughboy
Jan 16, 2008, 11:15 AM
Depends how you define lifetime. Battery will loose half of its capacity after 500 charges.
Maybe there will be some external batteries connected to magsafe for people who would like to carry 2 batteries or whose internal battery is getting weak...

But thats not possible for 2 reasons:

1) you'd be carrying around a huge brick instead of a nice/slim 45W Magsafe adapter.

2) Once your battery goes weak, you'd be living connected to a cable for external battery life.. How is that "Air" or "wireless" in any ways?..

julianbc
Jan 16, 2008, 11:15 AM
As a shareholder, I wanted to see Apple release something that sells in large volumes.

saltyzoo
Jan 16, 2008, 11:18 AM
As a shareholder, I wanted to see Apple release something that sells in large volumes.

You mean besides replacement MacBook Pro power supplies? :D

Sorry, couldn't resist. I agree with you.

toughboy
Jan 16, 2008, 11:19 AM
As a shareholder, I wanted to see Apple release something that sells in large volumes.

As an Apple enthusiast, I dont want you to demand anything to turn Apple into Dell in anyways :P :D

Just joking.. Dont worry.. When iPod first realesed, we saw people like today, whining how impractical and useless iPod was. MacBook Air will be selling millions, dont worry, Julian "the shareholder" :)

MagicWok
Jan 16, 2008, 11:20 AM
If Apple could see to it to add one more usb slot - I think I might finally get something to replace my ageing powerbook.

Of course I'd get one from reburb store as it's just a bit too pricey imo.

toughboy
Jan 16, 2008, 11:21 AM
If Apple could see to it to add one more usb slot - I think I might finally get something to replace my ageing powerbook.

Of course I'd get one from reburb store as it's just a bit too pricey imo.

Buy a USB hub.. They are tiny and cheap.. ;)

twoodcc
Jan 16, 2008, 11:27 AM
nice post. i agree, to some degree, anyways. i haven't really judged the macbook air just yet. i want to see one in person first

sellitman
Jan 16, 2008, 11:27 AM
As a road warrior the MBA would be nice if only it had an Ethernet connection. Many hotels have only Cable available in their rooms. Wireless is usually available in the lobby but I don't sleep in the lobby. :(

dpaanlka
Jan 16, 2008, 11:28 AM
To the OP - best MacBook Air post ever.

How many of you guys here have a main PC and then a laptop? Those are the people that the MacBook Air targets.

Exactly why the MBA is exactly what I want.

People are defining subcompact by dimensions. Apple is defining it by weight. I suspect that the segment the Air is aimed to will also define it by weight.

This is potentially a new class that perhaps should be defined as ultralight - a full size laptop that weighs as much as a cramped ultra portable.

blah blah blah I think Apple should conform to my needs and nobody else's

I don't understand what you're trying to convince us of - the MBA is obviously not for you, so don't buy it! Besides, if you do such important work with your computer, why would you even be considering an ultra portable?

"I want the power and flexibility of the 17" MacBook Pro in something the size of an iPhone."

saltyzoo
Jan 16, 2008, 11:29 AM
As a road warrior the MBA would be nice if only it had an Ethernet connection. Many hotels have only Cable available in their rooms. Wireless is usually available in the lobby but I don't sleep in the lobby. :(

Apple offers a USB to ethernet adapter for I think it was $20.

gwangung
Jan 16, 2008, 11:35 AM
This is potentially a new class that perhaps should be defined as ultralight - a full size laptop that weighs as much as a cramped ultra portable.

My mantra is that market segments should be defined by the users, not the products.

By definition, marketing is user-centric. You look at how users make use of a product and why. I'm not so sure that breaking out classes like subcompacts and ultra-lights is useful if all the users are looking for is "easier to schlep around."

CalfCanuck
Jan 16, 2008, 11:38 AM
But for 'The Rest of Us" i.e. those who have to earn their money by using notebooks, MBA is only a good choice, if it fits a lot better in a bag than MB or MBP (which I doubt, as the footprint of MBA is not really smaller). OK there is the better design :o , but for the rest MB and MBP, also quite thin, are by far the better deal.
I don't disagree with you about MBP's being the machine of choice for the majority of users, but why does the introduction of a MBA imply that the MBP's will not be updated?

If Apple decided to keep the same enclosure and just change the internals, they'll be updated soon at a later date with less fanfare. Let the MBA celebrate it's birthday as the star of Macworld - all the other existing product lines will get Apple's attention at a later date. As Steve said, we're only 2 weeks into 2008 and you've already got these software and hardware updates. Wait until the end of the year, then look back at what we've got from Apple...

As an example, look at the updated Mac Pros. Quite a serious improvement that was released as a "non-event" (of course, they had lagged quite a bit, but I'll be ordering one soon).

bearwise
Jan 16, 2008, 11:43 AM
IMHO the MBa has two purposes. ONe is to bring Apple into the niche, but important, ultra portable segment , and two, to show the promise of throwin goff all the cable shackles of current portable computing. FOr the first, I have owned a Sony TX and use it as my travel computer. while a good machine wht I really want is something light, that will fit in a briefcase, has a full sized keyboard and reasonable size screen. It's not a replacement for a MBP and is really not meant to be, any more than an Lenovo X40 replaces an R series. It has it uses and it meets my needs exactlly. I'll use my MBP at home for my personal stuff, watching movies on personal trips adn all the other things I use it for , and will use an MBa for business trips, stuck in my briefcase, writing documents on planes and in hotel rooms, and doing longer emails. Oh and by the way, in three years , it's very possible that all laptops will have SSD drives, minimal cable requirements and be thinner that most are now...

Shoesy
Jan 16, 2008, 11:46 AM
Nice post OP!

If some nice man bought me an MBA for my birthday (March 2nd btw) I would be very happy.

Any takers? :apple:

DeanNYC
Jan 16, 2008, 11:47 AM
details of your current tech needs are important, but take a breath. you're all mired in todays (old) ideas of different products and sizes with moving parts, buttons, disks, wires, thickness, and even fixes display size and flatness.

think ten or twenty years ahead when confligration happens with the directions "forward" and "between". "forward" in speed and size. "between" in size of format and choice of functions. mp3, phone, blackberry, notebook, laptop, desktop, hdtv will merge, touch boundaries, blurr boundaries, overlap, redefine, enhance formats, choices of features, and location of use.

and that's just what we consider computers at this point. and we all know how computers meld with peripherals and other common products.

SteveCH8xxx
Jan 16, 2008, 11:52 AM
I know now

The MacBook and the MacBook Pro
Then the MacBook Air ... and the MacBook Air Pro

With 15.4" there is a bit more space for a bigger
battery or a somehow better graphiccard or even
for the Wimx chipset ?

Hm .. well ...

toke lahti
Jan 16, 2008, 11:52 AM
But thats not possible for 2 reasons:
1) you'd be carrying around a huge brick instead of a nice/slim 45W Magsafe adapter.
2) Once your battery goes weak, you'd be living connected to a cable for external battery life.. How is that "Air" or "wireless" in any ways?..

1) It doesn't have to be huge. 45W's size would be enough?

2) If you charge MBA 10 times a week, you can choose
a) leave your laptop for battery replacement twice a year,
b) use MBA most of it's life with less than 3 hrs battery life
c) live with external battery

geese
Jan 16, 2008, 12:04 PM
Nice post OP!

If some nice man bought me an MBA for my birthday (March 2nd btw) I would be very happy.

Any takers? :apple:

I'll promise to buy you one if Colchester United finish in the top half of the league!

ntrigue
Jan 16, 2008, 12:10 PM
It's satisfying to hear reason amongst all the naysayers! What a beautiful product. Furthermore, I've used CS2 for website design on a 1.6 C2D and it works. I think this would be an ideal computer for a college student.

deputy_doofy
Jan 16, 2008, 12:26 PM
I've said it numerous times. Even if this version doesn't sell well, expect all the things learned from the engineering and the multi-touch track pad to find their way into future laptops as other components shrink.

The Cube paved the way for the Mac Mini. The Mackbook Air, assuming it does not sell well, will pave the way for still slimmer laptops without the sacrifices it made.

This is all good stuff!

Gelfin
Jan 16, 2008, 12:33 PM
Maybe this is the problem with treating MWSF like Christmas. Farm workers don't get upset when Ford announces a new Focus instead of a pickup truck, but people here assume the presents are going to be for them personally.

The MBA isn't for me, but there's a market for it. Hint: I think they came up with the name "MacBook Air" not because it was the best possible name for this product, but check out that acronym. There's your target market right there. This is the executive toy for 2008. The manilla envelope is a bit of clever marketing diversion that avoids being too on-the-nose. Something that fits easily into a manilla envelope will be immediately recognized as something that fits easily into a leather portfolio. This is Apple's inroad into business, and it may prove to be an excellent backdoor strategy.

All the executives where I work, the ones who used to sort of poke fun at me for choosing to buy my own MBP instead of having work issue me a Dell, are now walking around with iPhones. That's the hook. The MBA will just reel them in.

The problem with marketing products to people who do actual work is that organizational IT standards apply to those people. IT workers can rightly tell people like me to get bent if they don't feel like accommodating any special requirements to integrate my Mac into the network. You can't tell the CEO to bugger off and come back when he's got a proper Dell. You find a way to make his toy work.

And there's your corporate IT strategy. It's sneaky, but possibly brilliant. Getting the CEO's MBA working on the network will open the door for all of us who would prefer to use Macs given the choice.

CalfCanuck
Jan 16, 2008, 01:25 PM
Something that fits easily into a manilla envelope will be immediately recognized as something that fits easily into a leather portfolio. This is Apple's inroad into business, and it may prove to be an excellent backdoor strategy.
Great post - too many "starving students" on this forum who think that everything must be targeted for them, and if they don't get a 13" LCD with a optical drive in a pocket sized, 1 pound computer for $999 then Apple is crap...

Whenever I fly transatlantic , the plane has an entire group of people up front who's companies are paying $5000 for a ticket (my business trips are on MY company's expense account, so I'm sitting in back).

That means everyday there are thousands of people flying across the oceans on $10,000 business trips, most without checked luggage. The idea that weight doesn't matter is nonsense, as is the concept that the MBA is overpriced.

SteveCH8xxx
Jan 16, 2008, 01:40 PM
(...)
expect all the things learned from the engineering and the multi-touch
track pad to find their way into future laptops as other components shrink.
(...)
The Mackbook Air, assuming it does not sell well, will pave the way for
still slimmer laptops without the sacrifices it made.

I would expect a MacBook Air PRO

What Apple did now is to take the MacBook and simply shrink one of
the 3 dimensions ... by shrinking the shrinkable:
shrinked HardDisk or SolidStateDisks, solded RAMs, batteries, less inputs/outputs, a processor with new diffusion tecnology.

Now, lets' take the MacBook PRO (15.4", for instance) and again let's
shrink one of the 3 dimensions ... by shrinking the shrinkable:
shrinked HardDisk or SolidStateDisks, solded RAMs, batteries, less inputs/outputs, a processor with new diffusion tecnology.

We can simply leave on the market the existing MacBook/MacBookPro
line with more power/performance (but also bigger and powerconsuming)
and create aside the new MacBookAir/MacBookAirPro line with less power/performance (and of course slimmer, with less unused extension,
which are not used by the majority of the users)

SteveCH8xxx
Jan 16, 2008, 01:55 PM
(...)
is refering to the "footprint" of the MBA and how there's not that much difference between the MacBook and this.
(...)
this is plus, not a drawback. Full-size keyboard, reasonable screen size, it feels like a real laptop when open, but when you close it, it's thin.


Just my 2 cents to say that I'm a PowerBook12 owner and I know
what was great in the PB12 which is not (unfortunately) in this MBA:
the PB12 had a huge screen and a thinner margin around it.
The PowerBook12 was smaller than the iBook12, in every dimension !!!

I appreciate a big screen, I appreciate 1280x800 instead of 1024x768,
but the MacBookAir DOES NOT have a thinner margin around the screen

And by the way ...
everybody was talking about "ultraportable"
everybody, excepted Steve Jobs

SteveCH8xxx
Jan 16, 2008, 02:09 PM
I can't believe how much whining everyone did about the lack of a portable macbook pro.

So, steve read, and he's got right on it and brought out a machine that business users are going to be able to take with them to get their work done - and a fast one.

And now everyone is whining.

Go figure.

Well ...
to be honest all these people "whining about the lack of a portable
macbook pro" simply wanted again a 12" with thin screen margins.
With this MBA Steve demonstrated that what we asked is tecnically
possible and .. honestly not a big deal anymore

It can be that I will go for this long awaited MacBookAir
BUT STILL I AM waiting for the 12" with thin screen margins
because I did not ask this kind of shrink :-(

ntrigue
Jan 16, 2008, 03:38 PM
There's potential for a MBP in a similar form factor. No optical - same keyboard - Same screen - A dedicated GFx card will not allow the back to get much thinner though - and I won't buy one without at least a 8600GT

benfilan
Jan 16, 2008, 04:32 PM
Nice post OP.

This product does also remind me of the Cube. Breakthrough design aimed at a niche market at a pricier-level. A product ahead of the curve, showcasing Apple's innovation.


I LOVED the cube!

LizKat
Jan 16, 2008, 05:47 PM
:eek::eek::eek::confused::confused::confused: Grief. What would you be satisfied with?

LOL, brain to brain wireless, the max in minimalist design.

Meanwhile I scarfed one of these things up, I can hardly wait for Feb 11.

CommodityFetish
Jan 16, 2008, 05:55 PM
The most positive thing I can say about the MBA release is that it's evidence that apple is open to diversifying its product lines. When Jobs came they had to streamline and pull the company out of the ditch. Now they're raking it in, so why not offer more options to customers? One size does not fit all. There's no reason they shouldn't offer a midrange tower. And I'll put in my vote for an affordable (Macbook) laptop without the added weight and bulk of an optical drive.

OttomanUmpire
Jan 16, 2008, 06:56 PM
In 1989 they broke new ground with the Macintosh Portable, setting the basic design for modern laptops.

I agree with the OP, except for the above point. In 1989, I was lugging an SE/30, with full keyboard, onto planes, on hilly walks home for work, etc. With peripherals and bag, the whole thing weighed about 30 lbs. It was a lot like how computing might have looked on "The Flintstones."

Anyway, I desperately wanted a Macintosh Portable when it came out. I went to my boss, who found my slavish devotion to Apple utterly incomprehensible, and begged him for the funds to buy it. He declined my request.

The reason I take you on this walk down memory lane is to give credence to my recollection that, in truth, the Portable was a sucky computer. It was an awkward and underpowered device that compared poorly to the Toshiba laptops my colleagues carried around.

Apple didn't get it right until 1991 when they introduced the PowerBooks. My PB 170 was a $4800, 40 MB, 25 MHz, battleship gray thing of sheer beauty. The Titanium line was a similar leap.

There was nothing ambiguous about the superiority of either the PB 170 or Titanium, compared to its forebears and non-Apple competitors. It was obvious from the start.

In the MBA, Apple made, in my opinion, too many compromises for it to meet the standard of a next gen product. But to the OP's point, the technologies it incorporates will almost certainly play a big role in whatever that next gen product turns out to be.

zoetmb
Jan 16, 2008, 07:19 PM
Personally, I wouldn't buy this machine because I want my laptop to be the equivalent of my desktop and have "everything".

But most business users need nothing more than being able to access webmail and have some basic Office apps or equivalent. And carrying heavy, bulky machines around can really get tiring.

For them, this machine is perfect. (OK..not perfect, but perfectly applicable.)

The machine looks really, really cool and it's really, really light. It won't be Apple's best selling machine of all time, but I think it will do quite fine once people get a look at it.

Those who posted that everyone complained in the past when Apple dropped "obsolete functionality" are absolutely correct. I remember the screams when floppy drives, parallel ports, serial ports, old-style VGA connectors, etc. all got dropped from the Mac.

Apple provides different solutions for different uses. For someone who travels all the time, they don't need an optical drive in the machine. If they do, Apple has plenty of other laptops to choose from. I was a little surprised by the lack of Ethernet, but WiFi is pretty available these days.

If I wasn't so anal about having everything in one place, I might buy the latest tower instead of the next MacBookPro and get this laptop instead.

Spritey
Jan 16, 2008, 08:44 PM
It seems to me that...

If you read the supporting replies in MR you will notice that a lot of them go like '...when I go back to school ...'. I perfectly agree that a MBA is a great machine to show the fellows at school you're rich, beautiful etc.

If I were to get a MBA, it wouldn't be because I'm rich (or beautiful for that matter). It would be because of its size, and the fact that I'm willing to fork out an additional couple of hundred dollars to get a more portable laptop to carry around versus a MB. Not because I'm rich, but if you're buying something 1200+ anyway, a few hundred bucks more or less is doable even without being rich.

If I wanted a pretty computer, I'd get a MBP, but most college students don't need a MBP, as they tend to use their computer for e/mail, IM, Office and Safari/Firefox. Also, if you live in a university city/town, usually there's wireless everywhere you go. I don't even recall the last time I was plugged in with an ethernet cable.

Either way, like I' and other people have said before. This computer is targeted at business people, and not college students or pro-users. If they targeted pro-users, they would be cannibalizing, and that's not something you want to do.

Yukon Bear
Jan 16, 2008, 08:49 PM
It seems to me that everyone is missing the real point of the MacBook Air.


:)

I totally agree!

bguillemette6
Jan 16, 2008, 09:40 PM
I can give you folks my perspective. I'm 39 and enjoy an average salary and live and work in technolgy. I'm a technical recruiter and enjoy working with some of the brightest people in the world here in Cambridge, MA. (work in town...live outside)

I recently made the switch from a Thinkpad "T" Series and decided heck, why not....let's give one of these Mac's a try.

Well, I went out and bought a MacBook (Black) on December 23rd. I went into the Apple Retail store and they (Apple sales folks) were really pushing the value of the white basic notebook for my needs. I have and will always have a laptop from work and unfortunately or fortunately 75% are PC's.

Most folks that "switch" from PC's to Mac's will also have a work computer either a PC or a Mac. I don't know one person whom I work with or have worked with that does not have a laptop or desktop and they use it everyday because most of them get them from work and are not "designers, or photo people etc" like many of you. (We don't own them, but we can use them as long as we are employed)

The typically Mac user for the past 10 years as well as college students and gamers. (I wish I was back in school) so this machine I think was released for me...and many other like me. (A huge market...HUGE)



The MBAir was not released for:

Gamers
Graphics Folks (above)
Editors (above)
and maybe not even the "base" Apple & Mac users.

I was sitting around for 2 weeks just loving the Macbook I bought (yes OSX is really nice)....and while visiting this site and others for tips and getting into the whole "Apple" community thang...and well, I loved everything about it.

Then...I stumbled across a bunch of posts that said "why would you buy a Macbook w/ just 14 days before Macworld"..." why couldn't you wait?...are you stupid???"

Well...I brought it back...open boxed and all and got all my $$ back...(-$160.00) restocking.......then I waited....yesterday they announced the Macbook Air. I was impressed and thought wow, it's a real nice machine. I was happy I returned the MacBook.

I logged in here to see the reaction. I figuired you folks knows Mac's better than the rest of us "switchers". I read the threads and I'd say 65% where very negative. I've read maybe 10 posts where people have said "I Like it, It's exactly what I need." And I kept thinking....is it a good machine for me?

I had the Macbook and never used the drive....hmmm well it was only 2 weeks. I never had a "DVD Burner" before in my home machine and never really needed one but hmmmmm....I never used that either.

Then I started thinking about the HD...I downloaded music but stored in on iTunes. I watch a movie but don't watch more than 3-4 a month and the iTunes thing...well...let's say I watch maybe 5 movies a year on my laptop and only really watched one to see if there was really any difference than a PC. (no)

Then I was thinking about the ports.
Ethernet:
Hmmm, I stay at Marriotts and Hiltons and they always have wireless...I go to Starbucks and Borders....hmmm wireless. I go to visit my sister and brother and family....all pc users and they have wireless. When would I ever need that?....NEVER....well I would need it at work. Oh, no...we have wirless "guest" network in the building....no need for an ethernet port here.

USB and the other ports,,
...just one on the MBA hmmmm, ...well I like a mouse but don't travel with one now and I never really do. If I am at a library its just the laptop no mouse or hard drives or external drives or movies or anything...so, I guess I would be the "norm" for me mouse-less. I also never look around and see 30 people using mice either. ...so one's ok I guess...maybe I'd get stuck but I just think that if I'm stuck...oh well. (It could happen and piss me off...I've never had it happen so it's tough to tell)

I thought about the hard drive....ok, I have an external and am not a collector of movies but I have a big Itunes library so I am ok there, and photos I have a bunch but store them on the web too....hey, I started thinking....80 gigs is ok...my ThinkPad was fine..I never had one issue with it being to small (Remember, this was not my work machine...90% of the business world provide there employees with computers)

Ok...keyboard is not small...MINT!
backlit keyboard..MINT! (My only complaint with the Macbook)

so....I don't think I need to go over every peice of equipemnt on it. You all are experts and I'm just a "switcher....a person or consumer that I THINK STEVE JOBS IS INTERSTED IN....and yes...a noobie Mac person.

The only reason why I will not buy this is price. It has nothing to do with ports, HD, Track Packs (although I think cool) or Batteries.

I will buy another Black Macbook :)

The MBA will come down in price...then when millions of potential "Switchers" and business folks or working foklks like me are in the market....that's when these bad boys will sell like Hot Cakes!! (iPhone as good example....non Apple hard core folks wanted value with features...(I saw a ton of college folks sleeping outside to get them early on)......a price drop and now look...folks like me started buying and..now 20% of the market? ...pretty good)

My only question is...how slow is 1.6 Ghz.....is it ok or should that be faster...other than that...it's a nice machine for me...if they only priced it at $1399.00 I would have bought one....and never looked back! Maybe someone can tell me how slow that really is and if it will really be a **** machine in 3 years...that's the value I was talking about above.


BG

UCLA Bruin
Jan 16, 2008, 10:39 PM
garethlewis2,

you must be joking when you said:

"I'm missing the point because Apple want to show the world what a great laptop they can build? Don't be naive. Apple don't build this, ASUS or Acer are building this.

Is it a good design? Yes. Does it make it worth buying? No.

Is the Ferrari Enzo a good design? Yes. Could you drive this monster car to work and back and also do the shopping in it? No.

If they wanted to show the world how good they are at pushing the envelope, they could start by fixing their god-awful build quality, then putting proper 24-bit displays in their laptops instead of some tired old 18-bit displays. If they did that I would buy a new laptop, actually I need one as some bastard stole my laptop on Friday in Brussels. I want from Apple, a no compromise 17" 1080p 4gig, 320gb monster that can do anything a desktop machine can do, not a piece of cack that looks good on a coffee table in StarBucks."

First off a Ferrari Enzo is NOT SUPPOSED to be built for driving to work and going shopping. It is an exotic car not a daily driver. This is not relevant to Macs but you made such a poor argument I had to correct you.
Second off, Apple is not going to build the computer you described because it does not tailor to their average consumer. Do you think the average person needs 1080P, 4 gig, and 320 RAM? NO. No one cares what you want. You are supposedly a MacRumors Regular so start talking with some intelligence. The OP is 100% right. Apple is the leader in innovation and while this laptop may not push the technological limits, it is not intended to.

averyash
Jan 16, 2008, 10:40 PM
I can give you folks my perspective. I'm 39 and enjoy an average salary and live and work in technolgy. I'm a technical recruiter and enjoy working with some of the brightest people in the world here in Cambridge, MA. (work in town...live outside)

I recently made the switch from a Thinkpad "T" Series and decided heck, why not....let's give one of these Mac's a try.

Well, I went out and bought a MacBook (Black) on December 23rd. I went into the Apple Retail store and they (Apple sales folks) were really pushing the value of the white basic notebook for my needs. I have and will always have a laptop from work and unfortunately or fortunately 75% are PC's.

Most folks that "switch" from PC's to Mac's will also have a work computer either a PC or a Mac. I don't know one person whom I work with or have worked with that does not have a laptop or desktop and they use it everyday because most of them get them from work and are not "designers, or photo people etc" like many of you. (We don't own them, but we can use them as long as we are employed)

The typically Mac user for the past 10 years as well as college students and gamers. (I wish I was back in school) so this machine I think was released for me...and many other like me. (A huge market...HUGE)



The MBAir was not released for:

Gamers
Graphics Folks (above)
Editors (above)
and maybe not even the "base" Apple & Mac users.

I was sitting around for 2 weeks just loving the Macbook I bought (yes OSX is really nice)....and while visiting this site and others for tips and getting into the whole "Apple" community thang...and well, I loved everything about it.

Then...I stumbled across a bunch of posts that said "why would you buy a Macbook w/ just 14 days before Macworld"..." why couldn't you wait?...are you stupid???"

Well...I brought it back...open boxed and all and got all my $$ back...(-$160.00) restocking.......then I waited....yesterday they announced the Macbook Air. I was impressed and thought wow, it's a real nice machine. I was happy I returned the MacBook.

I logged in here to see the reaction. I figuired you folks knows Mac's better than the rest of us "switchers". I read the threads and I'd say 65% where very negative. I've read maybe 10 posts where people have said "I Like it, It's exactly what I need." And I kept thinking....is it a good machine for me?

I had the Macbook and never used the drive....hmmm well it was only 2 weeks. I never had a "DVD Burner" before in my home machine and never really needed one but hmmmmm....I never used that either.

Then I started thinking about the HD...I downloaded music but stored in on iTunes. I watch a movie but don't watch more than 3-4 a month and the iTunes thing...well...let's say I watch maybe 5 movies a year on my laptop and only really watched one to see if there was really any difference than a PC. (no)

Then I was thinking about the ports.
Ethernet:
Hmmm, I stay at Marriotts and Hiltons and they always have wireless...I go to Starbucks and Borders....hmmm wireless. I go to visit my sister and brother and family....all pc users and they have wireless. When would I ever need that?....NEVER....well I would need it at work. Oh, no...we have wirless "guest" network in the building....no need for an ethernet port here.

USB and the other ports,,
...just one on the MBA hmmmm, ...well I like a mouse but don't travel with one now and I never really do. If I am at a library its just the laptop no mouse or hard drives or external drives or movies or anything...so, I guess I would be the "norm" for me mouse-less. I also never look around and see 30 people using mice either. ...so one's ok I guess...maybe I'd get stuck but I just think that if I'm stuck...oh well. (It could happen and piss me off...I've never had it happen so it's tough to tell)

I thought about the hard drive....ok, I have an external and am not a collector of movies but I have a big Itunes library so I am ok there, and photos I have a bunch but store them on the web too....hey, I started thinking....80 gigs is ok...my ThinkPad was fine..I never had one issue with it being to small (Remember, this was not my work machine...90% of the business world provide there employees with computers)

Ok...keyboard is not small...MINT!
backlit keyboard..MINT! (My only complaint with the Macbook)

so....I don't think I need to go over every peice of equipemnt on it. You all are experts and I'm just a "switcher....a person or consumer that I THINK STEVE JOBS IS INTERSTED IN....and yes...a noobie Mac person.

The only reason why I will not buy this is price. It has nothing to do with ports, HD, Track Packs (although I think cool) or Batteries.

I will buy another Black Macbook :)

The MBA will come down in price...then when millions of potential "Switchers" and business folks or working foklks like me are in the market....that's when these bad boys will sell like Hot Cakes!! (iPhone as good example....non Apple hard core folks wanted value with features...(I saw a ton of college folks sleeping outside to get them early on)......a price drop and now look...folks like me started buying and..now 20% of the market? ...pretty good)

My only question is...how slow is 1.6 Ghz.....is it ok or should that be faster...other than that...it's a nice machine for me...if they only priced it at $1399.00 I would have bought one....and never looked back! Maybe someone can tell me how slow that really is and if it will really be a **** machine in 3 years...that's the value I was talking about above.


BG

That's a very nice, thoughtful first post, BG.

Welcome to the MacRumors community.

Toppa G's
Jan 16, 2008, 10:45 PM
I'm using a 12" PB 1.33 GHz G4 with a whopping 512 MB of RAM. I have CS2 installed, and work within Illustrator and InDesign often without hiccup. I'm also using Office 2004 and iPhoto on this machine, and I'm not experiencing any slowness that I would call agonizing. Sure, I see a spinning beach ball every once in a while, but that's to be expected when working with multi-MB files.

I see no problem in using a MacBook Air daily for light graphics work, Office, and Internet/email. That's what I use my PB for, and it works just fine. Obviously, if you're working with multi-page books or enormous Photoshop files, it's going to be a little slow, but why would you want to work on those types of files on a laptop?

The truth is, you don't need a supercomputer to run Adobe or other productivity apps reasonably. The MacBook Air is plenty of computer for a great majority of people.

NAG
Jan 16, 2008, 11:04 PM
I'm using a 12" PB 1.33 GHz G4 with a whopping 512 MB of RAM. I have CS2 installed, and work within Illustrator and InDesign often without hiccup. I'm also using Office 2004 and iPhoto on this machine, and I'm not experiencing any slowness that I would call agonizing. Sure, I see a spinning beach ball every once in a while, but that's to be expected when working with multi-MB files.

I see no problem in using a MacBook Air daily for light graphics work, Office, and Internet/email. That's what I use my PB for, and it works just fine. Obviously, if you're working with multi-page books or enormous Photoshop files, it's going to be a little slow, but why would you want to work on those types of files on a laptop?

The truth is, you don't need a supercomputer to run Adobe or other productivity apps reasonably. The MacBook Air is plenty of computer for a great majority of people.

Eh, it would have to be pretty light graphics work and you'd definitely need an external if you're going to store any amount of photos or music/video. The MBA would only make a good stand alone computer for someone with extremely basic computer needs.

moreAAPLplz
Jan 17, 2008, 12:07 AM
I'm in need of a new laptop because I sold my Sharp Actius mm-10. Google that little machine. It's basically a slower version of the MBAir and it was great for my online poker playing and day trading needs. You can't fully appreciate one of these until you've toted it around for several months.

My good friend and I have battled over this. He wanted a new MBP with a blu-ray drive. The direction the MBAir is pushing people towards is itunes movie rentals which makes a lot of sense to me. I'd much rather pay $4.99 to watch a HD movie rather than $35 to buy it and have to carry it around. If I have some downloaded, I have a USB pen drive in my pocket for that.

Some wanted an upgraded MBP. Why should Apple be concerned about that right now? They have the laptop that's been tested by a third-party and found to run Vista faster than the rest. (Ahem, not their focus operating system) I believe Apple has some time to sit on the MBP and concentrate more on innovative new products.

NAG
Jan 17, 2008, 12:25 AM
You're not going to see a MBP with a bluray drive for a while. (they haven't made a slot loader yet, right?) If you want bluray I suggest a PS3 (I feel dirty).

MacViolinist
Jan 17, 2008, 12:38 AM
Well, it's nothing speciel per se, but I use it for my audio recorder. Which, I might add, is worth much more than the computer. Both in terms of what it delivers, but also in cold cash. I will not use some inferior recorder just to be able to buy a computer that "looks great".
Not in a million years.

This is one of them: Not used for travel(!)
http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/index.php
And this is the other:
http://sounddevices.com/products/744t.htm

I see you added something. Is that a way of showing how you read things? That you simply cannot fathom more than a few words, unless people are agreeing with you? Or that you have a _very_ short attention span?

You're making a pure strawman argument. I have never said anything about me wanting a 14" thick dell, with a thick bag and big power brick. Get real, will you? It's really starting to become tiring reading your replies - Anything that can be used as pushing the MBA as the end-all "business computer" is used. Arguments are not listened to, and you even stoop as low as to using ridiculous strawman arguments.



Hm, LED-backlit? Sure. I am no computer-wiz, I prefer to actually do something else. But it seems all laptops are going back-lit, quite a few are already, and for all intents and purposes it's the exact same as in the MacBook: Both are glossy, both are the exact same dimensions, both have the same resolution. And in a month the "LED backlit" will be silently introduced to the MacBook. Not that it matters, because, as I said, for all intents and purposes it's the exact same. It's nothing more than a month's wait or so, and presto, it will be in the Macbook, because that is propably what the screen was intended for: College movie watchers and other people that really like glossy things.


I was going to take it easy on you because you claim (not to mention demonstrate) in the above post that you know nothing about what's going on here.

You haven't taken the time to figure out the difference between a backlit display and an LED-backlit display, yet you have the expertise to tell us that other companies will infringe on Apple's multi-touch patents within months. That's primo stuff there. Get yourself a blog and get rich, Tosser. I'm sure the technorati will love your prediction that soon all laptop displays will be backlit. That's just pure genius there.

What is really irksome about you, however, are your incessant self-contradictions. You have audio equipment that you you would never take on the road; therefore MacBook air isn't for you. Holy friggin non sequitur, Batman. If you've got audio equipment that expensive that you need on a daily basis . . . news flash, Tosser, the MacBook Air isn't for you. Neither is the MacBook, nor the MacBook Pro. What you need is what is known as a desktop.

Then you accuse someone of making a strawman argument. Do you even know what that means? Here's an example of a strawman argument:
The MacBook Air isn't suitable for my desktop needs; therefore it sucks as a laptop. Oh. Wait. That's the argument you just made in reference to your audio equipment. I'm sorry. That argument is both a strawman and a non-sequitur.

I think you're trying, so don't take it so hard, but get your stuff straight before you pop off like that. Okay, kiddo?

Mr. Mustard
Jan 17, 2008, 03:02 AM
come on people. we all know if money wasn't such an issue, there would be a mac pro at your home and a Air in your backpack. with all things tech it might be feasible in a couple of years. the road ahead is being paved as we speak.

djellison
Jan 17, 2008, 03:26 AM
No - with all the money in the world, I wouldn't have an MBA. Why do people think that this is a money issue when someone doesn't want an MBA?

I like it as a design item, as a lifestyle product.

But my MB serves me better than a MBA ever could ( faster, more space, optical drive, replaceable battery, audio in), and a small MBP (i.e. a replacement for 12" PB) would serve me better still. I need hardware accelerated graphics to do 3d productivity with XP, and have smooth, fast effects within keynote.

Money no object I would have neither a Mac Pro (no 64 bit bootcamp drivers) OR a MBA.

I LIKE the MBA. I don't want one though. It would serve no purpose for me.

Doug

toke lahti
Jan 17, 2008, 04:22 AM
I like it as a design item, as a lifestyle product.
One evidence for this is display resolution. MB has low rez because it has to be cheap. MBA isn't cheap, so there should be more resolution, at least BTO.

b0x
Jan 17, 2008, 04:38 AM
I'd really like an apple version of the eePC that ASUS have released. It's about AU$500, it's less than a kilo has 3 USB ports, I'd rather it with a 1.8" HD rather than 4gb of flash, but the 7" screen with the keyboard seems quite useful to me.

It could be called the Macbook Air nano?

John Purple
Jan 17, 2008, 05:02 AM
Well ...
- with all the money in the world,...

I would have an MBA, even it does not everything I (it's personal opinion!) need, because

I like it as a design item, as a lifestyle product.

:p

But as I don't have all the money in the world, I'll wait for the MBP update :o

MagicWok
Jan 17, 2008, 05:39 AM
Long shot, but are any MBA demo units in store (UK)?

Might be heading down to Bluewater over the weekend and would like to have a quick play with the thing just so I said I did lol.

anotherarunan
Jan 17, 2008, 06:17 AM
I agree with the OP on most of the things, however i disagree with a few statements he made.

-Apple DID make this machine to sell millions. Obviously not in the short space of time like the iphone, but it sees it as a long term feature of its laptop line

-One USB port IMO is not enough. Especially with no ethernet port. Ethernet is still essential in most big businesses for fast file transfer and data speeds. Not to mention the security issues with wireless. So maybe a 2nd USB would have been a good idea.

Apart from that i totally agree. The price is justifiable. Although the price of the SSD version seems a bit much. But if you were in the market for a true ultra-portable laptop, for working on the train/plane, to carry around with you in your bag, and to sync up with a bigger more powerful machine while at home - the MBA ticks all the right boxes.

jk000
Jan 17, 2008, 06:23 AM
[QUOTE=Stuart in Oz;4768272]It seems to me that everyone is missing the real point of the MacBook Air.

This computer was not released to be a great laptop. It wasn't released to sell in large volumes and it wasn't released to give you everything you currently get in a MacBook or MacBook Pro.QUOTE]

This is EXACTLY why. Everyone knows already Apple did it to show off? Too busy making toys! Where was the MBP, they've let down their core base. MBA was a great idea, but not at that time, not in place of a MBP.

ScottFitz
Jan 17, 2008, 07:19 AM
As a road warrior the MBA would be nice if only it had an Ethernet connection. Many hotels have only Cable available in their rooms. Wireless is usually available in the lobby but I don't sleep in the lobby. :(

just grab one of those airport express module things. One thing I hate in hotel rooms is being tethered to the desk. The chair is often rather uncomfortable. I l ike wireless in my hotel.

austinmcguire
Jan 17, 2008, 07:41 AM
As a full size laptop most posters are correct, the MBA sucks. However the MBA is an ultra-portable, and quite honestly one of the lightest, most usable, and most powerful ultra-portables on the market. At my work, my only assigned computer (a dell laptop) died and because of a budget freeze I could not get a new one. I was given a Dell ultra portable that was turned in by someone who had just left. (After a year, I should finally get a new full size laptop next month)

Here are my thoughts
1) the Dell ultra portable tops out at 1.2 ghz core 2 duo, the MBA 1.8 core 2 duo
2) the Dell screen and keyboard are too small to use every day. I have to use an external keyboard and monitor. The MBA's keyboard and screen look like they are big enough to use everyday directly.
3) The dell also uses an external drive, that I plug in about once every 3 months (It also uses a special usb cable to supply extra power to it, the MBA Superdrive uses a standard USB cable)
4) When traveling and doing presentations the lightness of the ultra-portable is sweet.
5) Price wise the faster MBA is $70 cheaper than the dell (When the ram, harddrive, and CPU are increased to match as close as possible the MBA) I will admit that Dell's SSD option is a lot cheaper than Apple's.


While I have no intensions of buying a MBA for myself (No need for the ultra lightness), If I did need an ultra portable, this is the one I would want.

Loalq
Jan 17, 2008, 08:16 AM
Totally agree with you -- somebody has to pay the price of evolution for the benefit of all. It takes a lot of nerve and a lot of money, because Apple risks losing some cash into this one.

But being thin cannot be considered a breakthrough in this case: people have been building thinner laptops since the beginning and this will continue until we get to paper-thin. The fact that it promotes a wireless-life to the extreme is the great step.

But IMO it has a serious problem: it aims at a market which Apple do not own -- the business one. That, in my view, is their big challenge on marketing the Air, and it has nothing to do with hardware at the moment: it is about OS and support.

DeanNYC
Jan 17, 2008, 08:53 AM
Long shot, but are any MBA demo units in store (UK)?

i visited nyc's apple store on west 14th street to see jobs' keynote and asked them if they had mba's to see. they said they get them in the stores when they ship. if that's wrong let me know. i suggest you all watch the keynote about the mba. it will clarify much about features and functionality to the many who seem to be unclear about the mba's details. the lack of a cd/dvd drive is the main reason i won't get one yet, but an external drive powered by usb is available for $50 us. the mba's price isn't really that high to me. the number of ports is another limitation for some but not for a problem for me. apple's reasoning for no drive, at least in their presentation, is that itunes movie rentals, wireless hardrives, among other things "make the disk unnessary". take that how you will, depending on if you try to work in tomorrow's methods or yesterday/today's. one strong but unsung reason i think we see this mba is as a coming-out party for the smaller intel chip and thin battery which will indicate a new standard for thin notebooks. you all should go back and (re)watch it on apple.com!

DeanNYC
Jan 17, 2008, 09:04 AM
i visited nyc's apple store on west 14th street to see jobs' keynote and asked them if they had mba's to see. they said they get them in the stores when they ship. if that's wrong let me know. i suggest you all watch the keynote about the mba. it will clarify much about features and functionality to the many who seem to be unclear about the mba's details. the lack of a cd/dvd drive is the main reason i won't get one yet, but an external drive powered by usb is available for $50 us. the mba's price isn't really that high to me. the number of ports is another limitation for some but not for a problem for me. apple's reasoning for no drive, at least in their presentation, is that itunes movie rentals, wireless hardrives, among other things "make the disk unnessary". take that how you will, depending on if you try to work in tomorrow's methods or yesterday/today's. one strong but unsung reason i think we see this mba is as a coming-out party for the smaller intel chip and thin battery which will indicate a new standard for thin notebooks. you all should go back and (re)watch it on apple.com!

garethlewis2
Jan 17, 2008, 09:37 AM
UCLA Brain,

I stand corrected. You are a genius as you have mentioned.

There I was thinking that Apple technology especially its Pro machines were luxury items. You have corrected me and made me understand that they are actually closer to Citroen 2CVs.

The MBA is only going to be bought by people who want to impress others around a table at StarBucks or in a boardroom. Actually, if you pulled a MacBook Air out in a boardroom, the board of directors are likely to laugh their balls off, wondering why you brought in your childs fisher price toy.

eVolcre
Jan 17, 2008, 09:54 AM
I usually don't cross post but this one belongs here as well ..

Well, I didn't know which thread to post this in so this one it is.

I've been reading, analzing and thinking about the MBA for weeks now. Was I disappointed? Perhaps. But only because the hype was so huge, and some of the mockups so ... different. This, well, it's nice and small and light, but it's just another laptop at the end of the day. Fits my 'exec' needs as long as I have a heavy lifter at home. For what I do now (consulting), on the road abroad ALL the time, only one laptop to do everything I needed the screen space, the DVD player etc etc etc. But once I have a normal everyday lifestyle, I'd sell my current workhorse and pick up an iMac for home and the MBA (or the next iteration) for work. And I am NOT some crazy mac fan boy or just a star struck exec with money to waste. My machine prior to this was a 12" PB G4 which was great for grad school but once I decided to get into international consulting, I need ONE computer that can do everything and this is it

But ... and here it comes .. (I'm working in Kuwait right now BTW), I just got a call from my CEO, the Director of Network Planning AND the Director of Sales. They've all seen me around the office with my tricked out MBB17, I've tried evangelizing Apple to them, showed them OSX, showed them Parallels, how light my laptop was even when compared to their Windows 15" machines etc etc etc. Nothing worked. When the MBA came out I sent a one line email to my CEO .. the line about it being thinner than the Sony at it's thickest end and the picture.

They were sold. Forget the specs, forget the power of OSX this is one sexy 'I gotta have it' machine and people will buy it. There are now 3 MAC converts. They all have iPods, Apple TVs, iphones etc etc etc but when it comes to computing, Apple still seems 'different'.

It's a brilliant strategy. Get the sexy, some say underpowered machines, into the top execs and watch the IT departments slowly start switching to MacBook's for normal staff, MBP for people who need power and maybe even the XServe. Who knows.

I personally would buy it for logical reasons adding it to a desktop. My execs just bought it purely for sex appeal but there's a little more to it than that .. they truly don't need much power from their laptops. There were orders placed for Sony Viao ultraportables but as of an hour ago, they've switched to the MBA.

Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to share here that this machine meets people's needs and Apple just did with 'sex appeal' what I've been trying to do using logic and hands on demos for 6 months.

Oh, and BTW, even as a second machine I don't really want anything smaller than a 13", even if it has a smaller footprint. This one would let me do real work (spreadsheets, web research, documents, presentations etc) and let me type on a full keyboard. Not to mention, I allready have a briefcase. This is about as big as a legal pad right? I need to carry legal pads, contracts anyway, what good does a smaller footprint do for me?

Carry on

eV

Virgil-TB2
Jan 17, 2008, 10:15 AM
By 2010 you've bought your 3rd MBA for daily use, because of non-changeable battery. ...This is total BS.

It's 2008 now.
You are suggesting that in less than 2 years, a MacBook Air user will go through 3 machines because the battery will wear out?

Others have already corrected you on the fact that the battery *is* actually replaceable, but even if it wasn't, it's far more likely that you will still be using the MacBook Air you buy this year in 2010 and still on that first battery as well.

jouster
Jan 17, 2008, 10:23 AM
Actually, if you pulled a MacBook Air out in a boardroom, the board of directors are likely to laugh their balls off, wondering why you brought in your childs fisher price toy.

Yes, because it's essential to bring a laptop that can render complex Maya files or crunch multi-layer PS pics to board meetings.

I take my ultraportable Dell (supplied by my company) to board meetings. It is *substantially* less powerful than an MBA. But, like the vast majority of board meetings, the only thing I need it to do is run MS Office and have access to the network. The MBA can obviously do this, so if they did laugh they'd be proven wrong quite soon.

Here's a newsflash for you: board meetings are about strategy. They require documents, not heavy lifting apps - even if the company does work in that area. Do you think companies like Genentech or Pixar do their number crunching in the boardroom?

Tom J
Jan 17, 2008, 11:37 AM
Tastes Great! Less filling!

This thread is firmly divided between those "who get it" and those that do not.
For those who get it, you know who you are.
For those that that don't, you'll have trouble deciding which side I'm on.

saltyzoo
Jan 17, 2008, 11:40 AM
Tastes Great! Less filling!

This thread is firmly divided between those "who get it" and those that do not.
For those who get it, you know who you are.
For those that that don't, you'll have trouble deciding which side I'm on.

This parable was done a hundred years ago. The story is usually titled "The Emperor's new Clothes".

gwangung
Jan 17, 2008, 11:57 AM
This parable was done a hundred years ago. The story is usually titled "The Emperor's new Clothes".

No, the parable of the One Eyed Men in the Land of the Blind.

What part of market segmentation don't you get?

saltyzoo
Jan 17, 2008, 11:59 AM
No, the parable of the One Eyed Men in the Land of the Blind.

What part of market segmentation don't you get?

LOL Ok, I'm not sure what my post said to you, but it certainly wasn't what I was saying. I have no idea how your post relates to mine.

lcm123
Jan 17, 2008, 12:06 PM
you can say that the MBA is designed as a hint to the future BUT if it is not practical in the present then it is just as good as a bad design.

milo
Jan 17, 2008, 12:24 PM
Excellent post, this is dead on.

People consistently bash every new product apple ships, then most go on to do very well. There has been a huge amount of whining about this, but they'll sell a decent number to the millions of businessmen who do nothing more than read and write documents and emails, and want a small machine to travel with.

And I put my money where my mouth is - the day after this was announced, I bought another chunk of apple stock.

A year from now, people will point to all the bashing threads and laugh at all the people who thought it would flop.

mikes63737
Jan 17, 2008, 12:30 PM
I'm glad they killed the optical drive... I never use the one on my MBP.

If the MBA had a firewire port, I would sell my MBP and buy one right away. But it doesn't, so.....

Masquerade
Jan 17, 2008, 02:01 PM
And ever newspaper reader and TV news watcher of today's unveiling will remember for the next 10 years that Apple were the first to do this modern new design that everyone else is now copying, and honey, shouldn't we see what they have in their store before we look at a PC laptop?

you maybe right in all the points, and do you know more? they should price it at $1000 even if the macbook comes from the future. would sell like cakes as iphone does

milo
Jan 17, 2008, 02:46 PM
you maybe right in all the points, and do you know more? they should price it at $1000 even if the macbook comes from the future. would sell like cakes as iphone does

Hey, if you're going to price them for less than they cost to make, why not go all the way and sell them for $149? Woohoo, free laptops for everyone!

:rolleyes:

daze
Jan 17, 2008, 04:10 PM
It seems to me that everyone is missing the real point of the MacBook Air.

This computer was not released to be a great laptop. It wasn't released to sell in large volumes and it wasn't released to give you everything you currently get in a MacBook or MacBook Pro...

Nicely written. Good job.

rstansby
Jan 17, 2008, 04:30 PM
Never mind the future, today in 2008 I almost never use the optical drive on my PC laptop (I actually have an extra battery in the slot). If I want to install software I get the latest version from the internet.

namethisfile
Jan 17, 2008, 04:31 PM
My 2 cents, maybe 3.

Yeah, I totally agree. I think the real point of the MBA is that apple can and they can do it better. The MBA is not just an ultra-portable because it’s thin, but it’s also ultra-portable because of its concept. If apple can make-do without the mag-safe adapter and have the MBA recharge its battery wirelessly, then they would have done it. And if wireless was up to speed and/or as reliable as a wired USB, then they would have taken away the USB port, altogether, too. So, yeah, the MBA might not be an all-in-one but it is an all-for-one. all-for-wireless-connectivity… all-for-digital-content… all-the-time… it’s like going into the school supply section of a store and seeing all these notepads with 250 pages, 150 pages, or 50 pages… which one is right? Some people go for the 250-paged one just to be safe, so as not run out of paper. Well, the MBA is like an infinity-paged notebook. there no running out of harddrive space since more space is theoritically available in the air, thru wi-fi. as apple sees it, wireless is the new-firewire port, the new-superdrive, the new-new... actual drives or ports or rpm speed is inconsequential in this wireless vision of tomorrow.... so get with it already, people and stop your whinings.

rstansby
Jan 17, 2008, 04:36 PM
My 2 cents, maybe 3.

it’s like going into the school supply section of a store and seeing all these notepads with 250 pages, 150 pages, or 50 pages… which one is right? Some people go for the 250-paged one just to be safe, so as not run out of paper.

Well stated.

jvillarreal1000
Jan 17, 2008, 04:45 PM
My 2 cents, maybe 3.

Yeah, I totally agree. I think the real point of the MBA is that apple can and they can do it better. The MBA is not just an ultra-portable because it’s thin, but it’s also ultra-portable because of its concept. If apple can make-do without the mag-safe adapter and have the MBA recharge its battery wirelessly, then they would have done it. And if wireless was up to speed and/or as reliable as a wired USB, then they would have taken away the USB port, altogether, too. So, yeah, the MBA might not be an all-in-one but it is an all-for-one. all-for-wireless-connectivity… all-for-digital-content… all-the-time… it’s like going into the school supply section of a store and seeing all these notepads with 250 pages, 150 pages, or 50 pages… which one is right? Some people go for the 250-paged one just to be safe, so as not run out of paper. Well, the MBA is like an infinity-paged notebook. there no running out of harddrive space since more space is theoritically available in the air, thru wi-fi. as apple sees it, wireless is the new-firewire port, the new-superdrive, the new-new... actual drives or ports or rpm speed is inconsequential in this wireless vision of tomorrow.... so get with it already, people and stop your whinings.

Well said, I hadn't looked at it from that point of view but I guess it does make sense. I guess what it all comes down to is personal preference. For some this might be the type of computer they are looking for, and as for others like myself we maybe wanting certain things that aren't available on the MBA. Thankfully Apple has a product for pretty much all different markets/ buyers. Here's a video of the MacBook Air that I'm sure the majority of you have seen already.
MacBook Air Video (http://www.webcastr.com/index.php?option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink&id=2179)

Matiek
Jan 17, 2008, 05:09 PM
By 2010 you've bought your 3rd MBA for daily use, because of non-changeable battery. If you like to buy a whole laptop instead of new battery, just keep buing MBAs every year. Share holders will be pleased.

Apple has said that the battery can be replaced at the store. It cost something like $125 dollars, not bad compared to the other batteries.

coolant113
Jan 17, 2008, 06:34 PM
you really hit the nail on the head precisely!!!!!.... what a good explanation that is very!!!! accurate...:apple::apple:

veeco3110
Jan 17, 2008, 06:53 PM
I'm missing the point because Apple want to show the world what a great laptop they can build? Don't be naive. Apple don't build this, ASUS or Acer are building this.

Is it a good design? Yes. Does it make it worth buying? No.

Is the Ferrari Enzo a good design? Yes. Could you drive this monster car to work and back and also do the shopping in it? No.

If they wanted to show the world how good they are at pushing the envelope, they could start by fixing their god-awful build quality, then putting proper 24-bit displays in their laptops instead of some tired old 18-bit displays. If they did that I would buy a new laptop, actually I need one as some bastard stole my laptop on Friday in Brussels. I want from Apple, a no compromise 17" 1080p 4gig, 320gb monster that can do anything a desktop machine can do, not a piece of cack that looks good on a coffee table in StarBucks.





you probably could goto work and do the shopping with an enzo. if you can afford a enzo you probably dont care to much about gas. get about 8 city/12 highway...better thn some trucks out there...shopping with no passenger is possible....ok continue the macbook air rants...

mmulin
Jan 17, 2008, 07:39 PM
..

However, ethernet is not even close to being obsolete and is still very much a prime technology that's constantly used in many environments.



.. in principle, I agree. But what is the problem with using an USB ethernet dongle? Loosing the ethernet port?
The USB complaint has been mentioned so many times (mind, not by you). Go to the USB section in any tech market, dept. store, etc. You will be amazed how many choices you will have for a thing called USB Hub. Those two items fit in the manila envelope as well, me thinks.

ps: he did mention a Mac & PC application which lets share the optical drive of the node it is installed on, didn't he?

jamikica
Jan 17, 2008, 08:16 PM
I have to agree that Apple has taken a leap of faith here and set a new bar. The Macbook air, time capsule, wireless keyboard and mouse, iphone... could all this be leading to other yet to be released products which are wireless and/or depend on being connected to the internet. It could be pointing the direction Apple is looking for the future where wireless communication is the key. Many digital cameras are shipping with built-in wifi ability and there is a new SD card that does this if your camera can not.

The Microsoft Table PC the Bill Gates showed off last year also showed the potential for wireless communication between devices.

Yes the Macbook Air is not perfect for every one, it may never be. But I think it is a big indicator of what is to come from Apple and other tech companies.


John

P.S. I will say that I was surprised that the Macbook did not come with some form of a built in edge or 3g connection. That would have been a true wireless Air machine. There is always the next model.

Stuart in Oz
Jan 18, 2008, 03:48 AM
Thanks to everyone who gave me kudos for my original post - my first post ever on MacRumors! :)

If I may drag out a couple of specific points (and make a few shrewd guesses) that follow on from that:


The HDD version will probably die quickly. Apple obviously whacked the P-ATA HDD in there so that there was a more reasonably priced version available here and now. The MBA should really push along SSD wholesale market volumes, which will inevitably lead to cheaper prices. So when the first revision of the MBA product line comes along the HDD will probably go, the 64GB SSD will come down in price to what the HDD model is today and a 128GB or larger SSD will become the premium option. When will this happen? I'd guess for Christmas '08, certainly by MacWorld '09.

RAM will almost certainly go up as prices come down. 2GB is plenty for webemail, MS Office, etc and will probably stay the standard in the base models but look for a 4GB spec in the premium model next year as the range develops and Apple try to broaden its appeal.

Graphics. I'm not an expert on this as I don't game or crunch 3D animations but if the volumes of MBA are reasonable and growing, you can expect the graphics card manufacturers to develop miniaturised graphics cards to suit. If you were running NVidia and Apple had just shown you that their MBA line was selling quite well already but what they really needed to make it their new bestselling line was a small but powerful graphics chip.... you'd probably get down to work!

So why does everyone need FireWire? (Don't flame me, I'm being rhetorical). It's for video cameras and external HDD's, right? Well, consumer video cameras are moving to USB already. I sell video cameras for a living for a major electrical retailer and all the new HD camcorders this last year were either HDD or flash memory based, they all used the new AVCHD format and they all used USB. I myself have a FireWire HDV camera but I know it's now the previous generation of technology. And my sales figures tell me that by the end of 08 almost all the camcorders I sell will be High Def and either HDD or flash memory with USB as the connection.

Why we won't miss FW for external hard drives is a big issue so I'll start a new thread soon that deals with it. It needs too much space to put here.

There were so many interesting points made in the hundred and something posts I can't reply to them all, so this will have to do!

netdog
Jan 18, 2008, 04:00 AM
I'm glad they killed the optical drive... I never use the one on my MBP.


Me too. And remember, they didn't kill it (as I do use it ever so occasionally) but just made it so that you don't have to lug it around.

Cousin Dirk
Jan 18, 2008, 08:39 AM
No it's not. It's 19mm thick. Put it in an room in, say, a desk, with less height than 19mm and you will realise it is 19mm thick. Not less than that.

When they claim it's the thinnest notebook in the world, and they claim that it is 4mm thick _as well_ as being 19mm thick. And they show pictures of it from the best angles possible. And I react to that with "it's not _that_ thin", I am of course referring to the fact, that it's not as thin as they would have you to believe. It's not somewhere in between the two.

It would appear that you are unable to grasp the concept of a gradient. When they say the MacBook Air is "4mm to 19mm thick" they don't mean that as an estimated figure, they mean it's 4mm at the front, thickening to 19mm at the back where the hinge is.

JG271
Jan 18, 2008, 10:56 AM
.. in principle, I agree. But what is the problem with using an USB ethernet dongle? Loosing the ethernet port?


Or get an airport express to plug into your existing network.

AoWolf
Jan 18, 2008, 11:54 AM
I think the OP is right on the money. Wireless is growing at an amazing pace and prices will go down.

rickboy
Jan 18, 2008, 12:35 PM
ummmmm...ok...

roland.g
Jan 18, 2008, 12:40 PM
Well written and thought out, great valid points. Good job. Thanks.

iHarry
Jan 19, 2008, 08:18 AM
Totally agree with every single point you made...

I Remember switching to apple computers 5 years ago...

I was stunned at the difference between windows and mac and I became a mac obsessed fanatic ever since.

Look, Flaws or not, I'm still buying the Air with SSD and Full Extras :D

Long Live Apple
:apple::apple::apple:

allomerus
Jan 19, 2008, 09:04 AM
I'm fine with the specs of the MBA, but clearly, this machine is best for those who have another, bigger Mac.

I see the MBA as a super-duper iPod or iPhone. Those devices let me take parts of my mac with me without the weight: music, photos, internet.

The MBA lets me do all that, and adds computing.

So the MBA should have the same synchronisation functions that the iPods/Phones have. Let the MBA iPhoto sync to a main iPhoto machine, let the MBA iTunes sync to my main music library, and let me have an iDisk-like hard drive mirror with my main machine. Obviously, I'll have to make some choices, like I do with my iPod, but that's fine if the synchronisation is automated. Then I'm happy to walk around with the MBA and keep the machine at home for heavy duty storage and heavy duty tasks.

Alternatively, Time Capsule could be the file server, if it can be partitioned.

vixapphire
Jan 19, 2008, 10:45 AM
However, ethernet is not even close to being obsolete and is still very much a prime technology that's constantly used in many environments. Same with the battery. Maybe in a couple of years the battery life will be sufficient to never need swapping or replacing, but that's not the case today. Today and for at least the next few years many people still need swappable and replaceable batteries.

Jobs overshot the puck on this one.

on the other hand, throw a $100 airport express in your laptop bag or briefcase, plug the hotel room/wherever's e-net connection into it and relax wirelessly anywhere in the room rather than be tethered to an uncomfortable chair and too-high desk (as in many hotels/motels)...

the MBA isn't really up my alley, but i do see the point and the original poster had some good observations.

eddietr
Jan 19, 2008, 02:13 PM
on the other hand, throw a $100 airport express in your laptop bag or briefcase, plug the hotel room/wherever's e-net connection into it and relax wirelessly anywhere in the room rather than be tethered to an uncomfortable chair and too-high desk (as in many hotels/motels)...

That's exactly what I do already with my MBP.

pb12y
Jan 19, 2008, 02:37 PM
I think/hope the OP is right on. I still use only a 12inch PB 1 ghz, and as a graduate student who does a lot of writing, plays no games, bikes everywhere and travels internationally with a backpack-only budget and a load of books, I still prefer the 12inch to any notebook Apple's ever made. Nothing else makes as much sense for me.

The new MBA may not be particularly innovative in every aspect, but it sets a good formfactor for Apple notebooks to come, ideally in consumer and some pro configurations. And when the current MBA comes down in price (with a decent HD), it'll be the ideal mac for people like me... for the first time in years.

The MBA does feel like a 2nd computer, not a desktop replacement. And it is well suited (and practically calls out for), pairing with the currently non-existent headless midrange tower or successor to the mini. It's a less than pro machine that could be nicely complemented by less than pro machines, and not necessarily an all-in-one.

iSee
Jan 19, 2008, 03:12 PM
The forums can be so pointless sometimes.

LOL! I was just thinking the same thing when I got to your post!
I was just waiting for a 40GB copy operation to complete so I got on MR. Gotta find something worthwhile to read for a few more min...

color guy
Jan 19, 2008, 08:50 PM
I'm waiting for someone to make a sleeve that looks like a manilla envelope. i fully expect one.

The MBA might actually work for me. I'm going to wait a few weeks for comments from early adapters first. i'm also considering the touch as an alternative for my daily portable needs. Apart from the small screen, it might work.

I've wanted the OQO since before it was released. Would have bought it if only it wasn't running windows.

I think there are a couple of sleepers from the show. The time
capsule thingy is a great idea. Only reservation i have is the same one i have about all hard drives: eventual and inevitable failure. Do we need a backups for the backup?

Jarra
Jan 19, 2008, 11:38 PM
Great post. He is so right. Flicking through the catalogues now and the laptops available, every one of them look so 20years ago. It is the apple brand, always at the cutting edge.

diabolic
Jan 19, 2008, 11:42 PM
I'm waiting for someone to make a sleeve that looks like a manilla envelope. i fully expect one.

You don't have to wait.

http://www.manilamac.com/

jockmoron
Jan 20, 2008, 12:27 AM
It's a niche product, but brilliant. It makes compromises as do all ultra-lightweight lap tops, but the compromises are different. Rather than a pokey screen and a cramped keyboard, it has a truly ergonomic solution to the problem of light-weight computer design. I think it will sell a lot better than many here might anticipate, particularly for women. If you really need an ethernet, you can use an adaptor, in which case it would be likely that your printer will also be attached. It has bluetooth, so many other gadgets can communicate. I will likely buy my wife one in a few months, after any teething troubles with the design become evident. Steve says "What's the point of a lap-top if you have to connect it with a cable to something?" (Well, he didn't actually say this, but I can imagine he might've), and he will be proven right, clumsy discs and ethernet wires will be a thing of the past. And if you have to watch a DVD in you hotel room at night, how much more likely is it that you might actually use the DVD and the TV in the room provided?

Lord Sam
Jan 20, 2008, 04:41 AM
wow. I totally agree with everything you said, it's a wonder no-body has posted that before. I love my MacBook, (I got the top of the line last may, core duo 2.0 ghz) but I dont need all the hd space, or the processor speed. And that 2 gig of RAM is looking mighty fine.

Passante
Jan 20, 2008, 05:43 AM
Someone show me a 13 inch ultra portable with the MacAir's specs. Sony has some great 13 inch notebooks that weigh more than a pound more than the Air. With the exception of a WAN card the MacAir matches up with Sony's 11 inch ultra portables.

The air is not a primary computer. It doesn't need multiple usb ports or even firewire. That's what airport express is for and time capsule.

hierobryan
Jan 20, 2008, 07:32 AM
No matter how it looks from great angles, it's still not thinner than it's wides point, just like a car isn't, say, 1 metre tall, just because the bonnet (hood for you americans) is at that height. You have to include the roof too, you know.

You are so right! The Air is not any more portable than the Macbook...more durable, but not more portable. You'd still have to carry around a bag that's 13 inches wide. Think about it...if you're going to have to carry a 13 inch bag, wouldn't you want to pack in as much features as possible? YES. So for the Air, all you're paying extra for is an insignificant weight reduction of 2 pounds and its hard casing. NOT WORTH IT.

Macmanus
Jan 20, 2008, 08:20 AM
You are so right! The Air is not any more portable than the Macbook...more durable, but not more portable. You'd still have to carry around a bag that's 13 inches wide. Think about it...if you're going to have to carry a 13 inch bag, wouldn't you want to pack in as much features as possible? YES. So for the Air, all you're paying extra for is an insignificant weight reduction of 2 pounds and its hard casing. NOT WORTH IT.

Righto.

What's the point of having the MBA when you're still using the external drive ? And Time capsule ? And an ethernet cable, just in case you're going to a country where (hell !) there's no Starbucks available ??

Why don't they sell it only in America ? Only in places where they actually can use it ? The East / West coast ??

skinnylegs
Jan 20, 2008, 11:43 AM
I've been following this thread since its beginning. Great read! I posted this at another forum I frequent and thought others *might* share my sentiments.....

Now, I know you are *dying* to hear what bugs me so I'll tell 'ya.....

1. It bugs me when someone gets a hard-on over squeezing out a few extra extra frame rates from a GPU or a couple points higher on a system benchmark or a couple degrees cooler on a system temp. yet fails to recognize the uniqueness of a reasonably powerful laptop that - pardon me for stealing Apples' thunder - fits in a manilla envelope.

2. It bugs me when someone decries the philosophy of "form over function" yet drools over pictures of women whose IQ's are quite possibly less than their breast size.

3. .....and yes, it bugs me when people make statements about something they know nothing about and have not spend even a single minute investigating.

Now, when I say it bugs me I don't mean that I stay awake at night running this stuff through my head. I do mean that if I have a few minutes to kill and I'm not busy with family life, stuff going on in the community, or work; I'll debate this kind of stuff in the forums. That's where it begins and ends for me. 'cause at the end of the day I could care less what computer someone uses or what OS they are using on it.

But alas, it's *not* the end of the day. On the contrary, it's a cold but beautiful morning here in San Diego so here are a few of my thoughts on the MB Air. BTW, forgive me if I repeat myself. I'm too lazy this morning to scroll up and reread my earlier posts.

To begin with, I want to make this clear. I have yet to completely make up my mind about the MB Air because I haven't gotten my hands on one yet. That said, it does intrigue me on quite a few accounts.

To begin with, it looks "sexy" as some would say. The lines on it, the color combination (I'm a sucker for aluminum), the backlit keyboard, the thinness all appeal to that part of me that desires beauty. Does beauty matter? Well, for many they could give a fat rat's arse what something looks like (computers included) as long as it gets the job.....and I get that, but that's not me. Certainly I am not willing to fully sacrifice function but form makes a *huge* difference to me and I don't think I stand alone. Mind you, I've only seen pictures but I like what I've seen so far. While on the subject of form, I'd like to bring up one other point that I think is important to mention. When you work on a desktop computer, the vast majority of your interaction involves the keyboard and monitor. That's why I find it funny when someone spends 5 grand on a rig and mixes in a $10 keyboard and a screen real-estate stingy monitor. Eh.....but maybe that's just me and I am probably digressing. My point is that much more so with laptops than with desktops, it makes a *huge* difference how your laptop *feels* cause you obviously will be picking it up and moving it about quite a bit. Once again, from what I have *seen* the MB Air looks like it would *feel* good. Also, it *looks* like Apple has done a great job with the screen and keyboard which, as I've stated, are of paramount importance. Capesh?

Secondly, there is a *huge* market for ultra-portables and to debate whether or not this particular market exists is like debating whether the sun rose yesterday. 'Kinda pointless. I won't debate whether anyone truly *needs* an ultra-portable vs. a standard laptop 'cause that would be pointless as well. But....can we agree that there are a lot of people who want ultra-portables and the MB Air might very well appeal to them? :-)

There are some rather controversial aspects to the MB Air. When I first heard that you can't change the battery without sending it in and it does not include an optical drive or an ethernet port I thought, "what the hell was Apple thinking!" But, I'm a bright enough guy to recognize that those are *blaring* omissions and maybe there was some logic behind it. So, I thought back over my experience with my laptop and wondered just how important these things are. The battery replacement thing turns out to be a moot point 'cause you *can* change out the battery yourself even though Apple recommends sending it back in. That said, I have had my iBook for about 5 years now and I have *never* traded out the battery. Not one single time. The ethernet port? I have never used my ethernet port on my iBook. Not one single time. The optical drive? I have watched *portions* of DVD's on my iBook *maybe* a handful of times.....maybe.I have used the drive to install a fair amount of software but Apple seems to have crated a clever app. that allows users to borrow other drives. BTW.....these are my real experiences.....not contrived stories that serve only to make a point. So, I have come to the conclusion that I wouldn't really miss any of these things not included with the MB Air and, once again, I don't think I stand alone.

I'm actually in the market for a new laptop and it will be a MB Air or a MB but I'll make my decision only after I've fooled around with both of them as they sit side-by-side.

lavrishevo
Jan 20, 2008, 11:53 AM
I've been following this thread since its beginning. Great read! I posted this at another forum I frequent and thought others *might* share my sentiments.....

We don't care... why are you wasting our time?

skinnylegs
Jan 20, 2008, 12:10 PM
We don't care... why are you wasting our time?Glad to see you are the self-appointed thread spokesperson. :rolleyes:

ArchiMark
Jan 20, 2008, 12:36 PM
Secondly, there is a *huge* market for ultra-portables and to debate whether or not this particular market exists is like debating whether the sun rose yesterday. 'Kinda pointless. I won't debate whether anyone truly *needs* an ultra-portable vs. a standard laptop 'cause that would be pointless as well. But....can we agree that there are a lot of people who want ultra-portables and the MB Air might very well appeal to them? :-)

I would agree that there's a fairly large market for ultraportables...

However, to me the MBA is not really an ultraportable, maybe you could say 'ultra-light' or 'thin and light' (for example, see Toshiba Portege series from 7 years ago...), but that's not an ultraportable to me.

Basically, it has the same footprint as the MacBook C2D that I have, just skinnier. So, for me, in terms of carrying it around, going from a MacBook to a MBA would not be that big of a change, a bit lighter/skinnier, but would still take up a big chunk of space in my bag.

On the other hand, the OQO 02 that I have now or the Sony UX that I had before or other similar size/form devices are to me ultraportable. My OQO weighs about 1 pound and can fit a coat pocket and takes up very little space in my bag. To me this is really ultraportable as I don't even think about it, but take it most everywhere I go...

Having said this, it doesn't mean that the MBA is not a good design or device. I think it is nice for someone who moves around a lot, doesn't need some of the built-ins of a MB, yet wants to save some weight and wants a full-size display/keyboard.

So, in the end, to each his own.....and maybe it's time to move on to some other topic.....

;)

herr_neumann
Jan 20, 2008, 12:53 PM
This thing is great for business users. I have a stack of those same envelopes in the file section of my messenger bag. Almost anyone that works in an office handles these envelopes everyday, and if you have a job that is 30%+ travel you want a light non-handcramping computer like the MBA. To me this suggests Apple is going to aggressively go after more enterprise customers. Once have of your sales team requests the MBA it might be time to have IT look at more Apple products....

anthony71571
Jan 20, 2008, 01:10 PM
Great post! I think it should've been part of the Keynote in SF.

I believe that the first introduction of the new MacBook Air plays a huge roll in the consumers decision in whether they'll buy one or not . I felt that the audience was being persuaded into buying this elegant machine by placing it and pricing it between the MB and MBP when in reality neither fit. The lack of Optical drive, FireWire, and Ethernet (does it even have speakers?) takes it all out of place. Pay more for less. Ouch. Trust me, it hurts me too.

If Apple would've introduced MBA as a stand-alone product maybe people wouldn't try to compare it with the other two machines. Like the iPhone, it has Mac OSX, a camera, iTunes, Contacts, Mail, etc. and nobody expected it to come with an optical drive, ethernet, etc. It was very obvious that Apple tried too hard to convince the audience why they would not need an optical drive and that was disappointing. Didn't FOX's CEO say that DVD's will be around for a while due to Blu-ray's consumer demand? Are we not waiting for Mac's to come out with Blu-Ray in them? So why say that we don't need them. When I see that a laptop can hold at least 1TB of info in them, and for me to have access to any program via online, then maybe I'll consider buying a laptop without an optical drive.

Ultra-portable they say. Well, Apple should've completed the ultra-portable by including 3g technology in it, don't you think? Going back to my point, if Apple would've introduced "The Machine of the Future" ALONE with 3g included there would be no doubt on its future and success.

Just to make my self clear, I love the MBA just not its introduction and price.
1799.00 without the SSD, is just another computer, but smaller.

bilbo--baggins
Jan 20, 2008, 01:23 PM
I agree with most of what the OP has said.

Given that most software is distributed on optical media I regard the loss of the optical drive as an indication that this is intended as a second computer rather than that optical media is out-dated (the loss of the floppy from the iMac was due to the fact it was already obsolete, and whereas Apple suggested at the time that internet storage would take it's place, to a large extent CD-R and later DVD-R fell into it's place). Just like it might be speculated that optical media might be replaced by software downloads, the reality is that for the foreseeable future optical media is here to stay, and the MacBook Air will require the external drive for anyone who doesn't already own another computer.

While the MacBook Pro is used by many as their main computer, the MacBook Air is clearly stepping into an age where it will be common for people to own both a desktop and a notebook computer. Just like families used to own 1 car and now often own at least 2, so too are computers going that way.

I do think that the MacBook Air is overpriced though. For something that is slower and has less functionality than the original MacBook, people are really going to be paying quite a premium for something that's thinner and lighter.

ArchiMark
Jan 20, 2008, 01:52 PM
This thing is great for business users. I have a stack of those same envelopes in the file section of my messenger bag. Almost anyone that works in an office handles these envelopes everyday, and if you have a job that is 30%+ travel you want a light non-handcramping computer like the MBA. To me this suggests Apple is going to aggressively go after more enterprise customers. Once have of your sales team requests the MBA it might be time to have IT look at more Apple products....

While these are good points, herr_neumann, as much as I'd like my IT dept look at Apple products, it ain't going to happen anytime soon.

IT depts have enough troubles supporting one OS, let alone two....
so, unless

A) Your entire company were to switch over to OSX, so that there's only one OS (OSX..)

or

B) Your company is willing to install BootCamp or VMWare or Parallels Desktop and run XP that way along with OSX

you're not going make much headway on this.


Also, for large companies, the costs of getting seat licenses for apps on OSX instead of Windows would be enormous.

So, while this is a great concept, unfortunately, it will be very difficult to implement, unless it's done for just a small subset of users in an organization. But even that is difficult, as IT would still be supporting another OS....

aftk2
Jan 20, 2008, 02:47 PM
This is a great, well-reasoned forum post (the initial post); it's title, however, and some of the replies, have prompted me to (try and) write some tech-related humor:

The Real Reason for the MacBook Air (http://www.electricstate.com/2008/01/19/the-real-reason-for-the-macbook-air/)

marclapierre13
Jan 20, 2008, 02:50 PM
It seems to me that everyone is missing the real point of the MacBook Air.

This computer was not released to be a great laptop. It wasn't released to sell in large volumes and it wasn't released to give you everything you currently get in a MacBook or MacBook Pro.

The MacBook Air was released to remind the world that Apple is way ahead of the rest of the industry. It is to plant in the minds of the consumer today the seed that will sprout into a visit to an Apple shop for a new laptop in 2010.

.....

Alright post, but I think you are not actually getting why apple released the MBA. They dont simply release a product because they can. They do it to capture parts of the market. They started with personal desktop computers, and are now at music and phones.
This new laptop is meant to capture a different side of the market, people who need ultra portable.
I am still against this laptop. I think it is a good concept, but at the price they are offering it at, it's ridiculous (the base, as well as the SSD). I think one of the reasons it will sell so well is just because it is a "Macbook". I feel this MBA should have been the model below the Macbook, even if it was just $25 below it, then it would appeal to more budget minded students as well as business folks. Really, for what it is offering (size, weight, style, a few decent features), for the price its currently at, it doesn't equal a great value.

MarkusNolff
Jan 20, 2008, 05:33 PM
Tastes Great! Less filling!

This thread is firmly divided between those "who get it" and those that do not.
For those who get it, you know who you are.
For those that that don't, you'll have trouble deciding which side I'm on.


Great quote. And so true! Yours?


MBA is 'redux to the max'. It has everything that is essential in a ‘large’ enough quantity, it has nothing that it could do without, and nothing ‘larger’ or ‘smaller’ than what would be essential. A study in ‘economy of force’.

In my opinion, the MBA is therefore a very balanced design of what it is - a ultra compact, ultra light notebook-, independent of its exterior design which I regard a piece of art. I already ordered mine.

MN

jonswan
Jan 20, 2008, 10:08 PM
The OP has some good points that were dotted around in amongst the insufferable smugness. To say that everyone else doesn't get it is dumb. And to say that Apple weren't intent on producing a 'great' laptop is equally inept. Of course they were, and they also wanted to push technology forward and remain ahead of the field.

To say that it's designed for women is also simply an opinion. My girlfriend offered me an alternative to your amazing theory; she doesn't want one because however nice it might be (and who really knows until they've seen one up close?) its lack of optical drive strikes her (and me) as dumb, because it wouldn't work as an only computer - you'd need a second, and environmentally and financially this doesn't make sense for many. It's also a step down in speed, doesn't have firewire and looks flimsy. The lack of an easy way to change a battery is just more style over substance or rationality.

Also, the idea that it could fit in an envelope is retarded - why would anyone wish to put one in an envelope?

I envisage that it won't be a great success, but it may lead to more interesting times down the line.

barijazz
Jan 20, 2008, 10:14 PM
It seems to me that everyone is missing the real point of the MacBook Air.

This computer was not released to be a great laptop. It wasn't released to sell in large volumes and it wasn't released to give you everything you currently get in a MacBook or MacBook Pro.

The MacBook Air was released to remind the world that Apple is way ahead of the rest of the industry. It is to plant in the minds of the consumer today the seed that will sprout into a visit to an Apple shop for a new laptop in 2010.

Apple have always been deeply involved in the development and progress of portable computing and they want to stay at the cutting edge.

In 1989 they broke new ground with the Macintosh Portable, setting the basic design for modern laptops. In 1991, (to quote Wikipedia), "The Apple PowerBook series, introduced in October 1991, pioneered changes that are now de facto standards on laptops." In 2001 we got the Titanium Powerbook - that machine set the basic standard in design (both stylistic and technical) for laptops for the next 7 years (and still counting).

Now, once again, there are technologies coming together that make a radical redesign possible. And so Apple have given it to us. The MacBook Air. Think of the MacBook Air as the pioneering generation of the next 10 years of Apple laptops. Like the Titanium Powerbook it has set a basic size and shape that breaks new boundaries and it has brought together a grouping of technologies that will become standard over the 10 year life of this design.


Multi Touch not very useful? Wait until the software makers have had 3 or 4 years to explore it's potential.

Fixed battery with poor life? The battery industry is promising new generation batteries by around 2010 with double the current life and 5 minute recharging times (do a Google search - look for Hitachi especially).

No optical drive? Think how far iTunes has come with music in the last 3 years. How far do you think it will go with movies in the next 3? And my local computer store is selling 8GB USB keys for A$49 (US$39) at the moment. In 3 years you don't think 64GB keys will be the same price? Who wants a DVD burner then?

No inbuilt Ethernet & only 1 USB? 3 years ago I was the only person with a wireless network in my street. Right now my computer is detecting 18 home networks and my middle aged non-technical neighbour proudly showed me her new wireless printer two weeks ago. Wireless really is the future. Even hotels will catch up.

Scared by the price of the SSD? 3 years ago a 64GB SSD would have put a premium on the machine of over $10 000. Today it's down to a few hundred dollars. By 2010 it will be the standard.


So sure, the MacBook Air of early 2008 has limitations, is missing heaps of stuff we all think is essential and probably won't sell that many. But when you go to buy your next laptop, and the one after that, it will likely be an upgraded version of what we have seen released today.

And ever newspaper reader and TV news watcher of today's unveiling will remember for the next 10 years that Apple were the first to do this modern new design that everyone else is now copying, and honey, shouldn't we see what they have in their store before we look at a PC laptop?

If I may add apple removed the floppy disk drives from their computers before anyone else and now it is an industry standard to point and laugh at a computer with one.

atarian90
Jan 21, 2008, 12:19 AM
What irks me about the MBA is that it's too big. IMO, as others have stated, a 13" screen with quite a bit of bezel space and even more extra space on each side of the keyboard makes it look like a super-thin MacBook. It's a bit too large to be considered an ultra-portable.

A 12" widescreen would have changed my opinion and put it into the ultra-portable category. Steve Jobs claims in his keynote that a 12" screen would compromise on the display quality and a crammed keyboard. Bull. Maybe he should look back in time and check out the 12" iBook/Powerbook. They have full size keyboards. The 12" displays I've seen on other ultra-portables look fine.

What the MBA did was sacrifice footprint for thickness. I would rather have a slightly thicker notebook and a smaller footprint (assuming the same weight). People can see the size difference more than the thickness because they are not going to glance at it from the side - it's usually from the front. I bet people who walk by it will mistake it for an aluminum MacBook than a MBA. A quick glance at a 12" and 13" screen DOES make a difference, but most people are not going to notice 0.3 inches (or less) thickness.

I highly doubt this will sell well in Asia and Japan. They like their ultra-portables small and light - NOT big and light. A 12" MBA would have fit this.

I think the "fits manila envelope" is ridiculous too. Contrary to an earlier posting, the MB/MBA is bigger than a letter size sheet of paper. If anything, the MBA would dinged up and the paper would be in better shape if both were stuffed in a manila envelope. However, a 12" MBA would just fit a sheet of letter size paper.

The removal of the floppy drive in the iMac argument to defend the optical drive removal is getting old. It was not surprising at the time when you consider CD-R/RWs at that point were less than $1 each (IIRC, they could be found on sale for 25-50 cents each). Floppies were almost free. There was virtually no price difference anymore, and CDs could store much more, so it was inevitable. Today, a DVD (25 cents) is much less expensive than a 4GB flash drive ($25) - that's 10 times the cost! Optical storage is here to stay for a while, but I can see why it was removed from the MBA to achieve it's thinness (not it's weight though!).

Anyway, people who need a light thin MacBook now are going to buy it, which is fine. It's a good first step into this niche market, and it's got some unique features that I do hope to see in the MB and MBPs. I just hope Apple will update their MacBook soon because it's starting to look REALLY old and heavy.

imagineer2000
Jan 21, 2008, 12:25 AM
Just to make my self clear, I love the MBA just not its introduction and price.
1799.00 without the SSD, is just another computer, but smaller.

I like the Lamborghini Murciélago but not the introduction and price. :D

Where else can you get one for less? Do tell.

AidenShaw
Jan 21, 2008, 09:29 AM
The removal of the floppy drive in the iMac argument to defend the optical drive removal is getting old.

It was not surprising at the time when you consider CD-R/RWs at that point were less than $1 each (IIRC, they could be found on sale for 25-50 cents each).

Floppies were almost free. There was virtually no price difference anymore, and CDs could store much more, so it was inevitable.

But, the Imac didn't have a CD-R drive - CD-R wasn't introduced in the Imac until about 2 1/2 years later, in the Flower Power/Blue Dalmation models in Feb 2001. (see iMac SE (early 2001) (http://www.apple-history.com/body.php?page=gallery&model=imacse_cdrw&performa=off&sort=date&order=ASC))

weg
Jan 22, 2008, 05:05 AM
Multi Touch not very useful? Wait until the software makers have had 3 or 4 years to explore it's potential.

Fixed battery with poor life? The battery industry is promising new generation batteries by around 2010 with double the current life and 5 minute recharging times (do a Google search - look for Hitachi especially).

No optical drive? Think how far iTunes has come with music in the last 3 years. How far do you think it will go with movies in the next 3? And my local computer store is selling 8GB USB keys for A$49 (US$39) at the moment. In 3 years you don't think 64GB keys will be the same price? Who wants a DVD burner then?

No inbuilt Ethernet & only 1 USB? 3 years ago I was the only person with a wireless network in my street. Right now my computer is detecting 18 home networks and my middle aged non-technical neighbour proudly showed me her new wireless printer two weeks ago. Wireless really is the future. Even hotels will catch up.

Scared by the price of the SSD? 3 years ago a 64GB SSD would have put a premium on the machine of over $10 000. Today it's down to a few hundred dollars. By 2010 it will be the standard.



So, you're basically stating that the MBA will be a great product in 3 years from now. Apple already had a similar problem when they produced the Apple Newton: Too early, too short.

ju5tin81
Jan 22, 2008, 06:44 AM
So, you're basically stating that the MBA will be a great product in 3 years from now. Apple already had a similar problem when they produced the Apple Newton: Too early, too short.

And an even more similar Mac was the cube.

Too early, too expensive...

In the end I think the cost will be what make or breaks this product...

The cube was THE Mac everyone desired, when they bought a PowerMac/iMac because of financial realities...

Until the mini came along at a much reduced price than the cube, the un-upgradable "beautifully small" thing never took off... It's a shame, but I think this Mac is just too much money... (For now! I still want one though :D)

RoDe
Jan 22, 2008, 06:54 AM
The people that keep on posting that it's too expensive keep missing the point, and they don't look at the competitors, cause often their more expensive and offer less.

A wise man speaks of what he sees ( from AOE III) :D

ju5tin81
Jan 22, 2008, 07:06 AM
What's the point of having the MBA when you're still using the external drive ? And Time capsule ? And an ethernet cable, just in case you're going to a country where (hell !) there's no Starbucks available ??

Why don't they sell it only in America ? Only in places where they actually can use it ? The East / West coast ??


We have wireless networks outside America you know. :rolleyes:.

I think the people embarking on missions to countries where there isn't any any form of communication wont really be prioritizing incremental backup or watching a DVD. :p

ju5tin81
Jan 22, 2008, 07:15 AM
The people that keep on posting that it's too expensive keep missing the point, and they don't look at the competitors, cause often their more expensive and offer less.

A wise man speaks of what he sees ( from AOE III) :D

I think it may be too niche. Even the people (like my mother) who buy gadgets on both looks 1st, portability 2nd and usability 3rd, still like to feel they're getting value for money.

3 Macbooks or 1 Macbook Air with a 64GB flash drive?

I think the wealthy elite is just a bit too niche, even for Apple. Then again so was a £300 music player... So could be wrong.

I think the Air primarily serves to show what great value the rest of their range is.:o

JonasLondon
Jan 22, 2008, 07:20 AM
...
If they wanted to show the world how good they are at pushing the envelope, they could start by fixing their god-awful build quality, then putting proper 24-bit displays in their laptops instead of some tired old 18-bit displays. If they did that I would buy a new laptop, actually I need one as some bastard stole my laptop on Friday in Brussels. I want from Apple, a no compromise 17" 1080p 4gig, 320gb monster that can do anything a desktop machine can do, not a piece of cack that looks good on a coffee table in StarBucks.

Sorry for your loss. But even discussing a 17" desktop replacement at the same time we're actually discussing the MacBook Air screams silly to me.

And for build quality - I can personally attest to the impressive build quality of the PowerBook and Mac Book. Two recent events:

I have dropped a PowerBook G4 Aluminium whilst it slided out of my photobackpack - dropped over a meter in height onto solid concrete floor and then fell into a dusty plantation (this was in super-humid Fiji a week ago). I picked it up, and whilst it has a major dent inthe corner and the display is bout 1.5mm skewed, the laptop is 100% functional - reads and writes DVDs, NO color & pixel weirdness, harddrive as good as ever.

A colleague of mine was handling a phone conversation whilst carrying his Mac Book Pro down the stairs, slipped, and the MacBook Pro sailed about three meters down in height onto a tiled floor, landing on the opened display - think: /(

Guess what - the only damage (this fall would have disintegrated most laptops!) was the charging board - which was replaced for 110 GBP or so.

Another machine has been chucked out of a window onto a grass lawn during a hotel room fire on the Galapagos Islands (by the same person btw).

Don't say godawful build quality anywhere near me, these are the most robust machines this side of a ToughBook.

J.

MacSween
Jan 22, 2008, 08:52 AM
For all you naysayers, just remember, you are not required to buy the Air! Many people ARE excited about this machine and SOME will buy it! That's the nice thing about what Apple has done. They have given folks a new option and have continued to build their reputation as a company with vision. They create products for the here and now and for the future.

gnasher729
Jan 22, 2008, 09:09 AM
And an even more similar Mac was the cube.

Too early, too expensive...

In the end I think the cost will be what make or breaks this product...

The cube was THE Mac everyone desired, when they bought a PowerMac/iMac because of financial realities...

These are not comparable for several reasons. One is that the Cube was released at exactly the time of the dot-com crash. There was plenty of money around when the Cube was designed, and a lot lot less when it was delivered. The Cube wasn't too early. Six months earlier, and Apple would have sold lots of them.

The other reason is that the Cube didn't have any real advantage in usability. It was a bit smaller and looked nice. But for a desktop machine, being small and looking nice is _some_ advantage, but not that big an advantage. There are very few people to whom the smallness of the Cube would have been worth a few hundred dollars. That is different with the MBA. There are _many_ people to whom two pounds less in weight is worth a lot of money.

And if Apple sold a Cube today, upgraded to the state of the art, they would sell lots. 8" by 8" by 8" gives you space plenty for a quad core processor, 1 TB hard disk, DVD writer, 8GB RAM, decent graphics card. People would probably complain that it is too big.

color guy
Jan 22, 2008, 09:18 AM
in response to gnasher...
i wonder if the mini is the new cube.

and in response to the qc posts, i had a run of 3 ibooks in a row that kept
being sent back for repair. i won't bore you with the details. but a huge list
of failed components.
My last one has been great, however, even though i dropped it from a height
of 2 feet and the top is bent at a frightening angle.

macsforme
Jan 22, 2008, 12:04 PM
The Pro with student discount is same as the new Air's price.

Don't forget that there's also a student discount available on the MacBook Air, which brings it down $100 cheaper than the cheapest discounted MacBook Pro.

in response to gnasher...
i wonder if the mini is the new cube.

Not really... although the G4 towers were still the real powerhouses when compared to the G4 cube, the Mac Mini is really crippled. Much slower processor, much less RAM capacity, no dedicated graphics... it's in a totally different world than the Mac Pro.

chicagostars
Jan 22, 2008, 04:00 PM
By 2010 you've bought your 3rd MBA for daily use, because of non-changeable battery. If you like to buy a whole laptop instead of new battery, just keep buing MBAs every year. Share holders will be pleased.

Not having a quickly removable battery doesn't mean the battery is non-replaceable. In fact the battery replacement protocol has already been well documented. Research before throwing missives, my friend.

ivnj
Jan 22, 2008, 05:54 PM
I'd love a new macbook air. However the words thin but flimsy come to mind.

paduck
Jan 22, 2008, 08:39 PM
So, you're basically stating that the MBA will be a great product in 3 years from now. Apple already had a similar problem when they produced the Apple Newton: Too early, too short.

Yeah, I said the same thing about the iPod in 2001 - it's another Newton, no one is gonna want one of those expensive things. See how right I was.

The MBA is a very intriguing product. It is on the high-end of price and the feature set seems a little short in some areas (hard drive space!) But it really has some interesting characteristics:

1. SSD "hard drive" - I think this is the future for laptops and Apple is the first major brand to introduce it. Haven't seen anything about its impact on battery life though, that would be VERY interesting. Like the iMac without the floppy disk drive, I think that this is where computers are going and Apple is leading the way.

2. The whole "Air" thing. Apple has put a lot into wireless. They were first out with the Airport - that led to the mainstreaming of home wireless. I still remember Jobs saying it could handle a 10,000 sq/ft house - fine for most people who are not Bill Gates. Now look at 802.11n and entire product lines built on wireless home networking (Apple alone has AppleTV, iPhone, Airport Extreme, Time Capsule, iTouch, plus Airport in all shipping Macs). The things are everywhere. I used to think about how to wire just a couple rooms in my house. I'm not really thinking about that anymore. Go to Starbucks and many airports in the US and you have Wifi connectivity. I think that is the future.

3. Lack of a DVD drive. Very interesting. I think you will still want access to such a device, but hey, Apple is letting you share other computers drives in addition to having a small portable one. I happen to think CD/DVD are good for things like backups and sharing photos with family, so they might not entirely die (maybe replaced with follow-on technology). Apple would say that they have several products that fill those gaps (Time Capsule being the most obvious). Still, how many people actually use the drives while on the road? I suspect not all that many. Hence, you can save the space and have it as an accessory.

4. Battery - I think, like with the iPod, the battery issue was more a design decision than anything else. They couldn't easily make it removable, so they didn't. Plus, the thing is 5 hours. Maybe not quite enough for transatlantic, but still pretty good. I think the point about future batteries is well taken - if you get 20 hours on the battery, who needs to swap? How many people carry spare batteries as it is? I thought that was more a relic of the time when batteries lasted only 2 hours.

5. Weight - as long as the thing fits in a standard carryon, then weight becomes the big issue. This thing is light and that is important. I agree with the earlier comments that Apple is defining the category by weight and not footprint. I wonder if consumers will think the same way?

The MBA is a very interesting product. I think that, like the iPod, the second and third versions are going to be much more popular than the first one. With refinements and upgrades at the same price point, I think in 18 months you are going to be quite pleased with Apple's laptop offerings. The question I have is the extent to which MBA will take away from either the high-end offerings or bump people up into the new MBA-realm from the iBook arena in the low $1,000 range. Apple is interested as well. If they push people up from the low-end, then they will make a lot of money. Not sure about the high-end shift to the middle though. Perhaps that is why the feature set is a little limited? They don't want to cannibalize the high-end, they want to move people from the consumer range.

TheNorthWaves
Jan 22, 2008, 08:57 PM
You wrote what I was thinking in my head when it was unveiled. You read my mind. The Macbook air is a showcase of technology. It is spit in the face of the bureaucratic mainstream. Way to go Apple :)

eddietr
Jan 22, 2008, 09:08 PM
3 Macbooks or 1 Macbook Air with a 64GB flash drive?


Umm, I ordered an Air with the SSD.

And for that price I could have bought 2 to 2.5 Macbooks (with normal drives), depending on configuration.

But what on earth would I have done with 2 or 3 Macbooks? How would I even fit those in my bag? :)

eddietr
Jan 22, 2008, 09:09 PM
1. SSD "hard drive" - I think this is the future for laptops and Apple is the first major brand to introduce it. Haven't seen anything about its impact on battery life though, that would be VERY interesting. Like the iMac without the floppy disk drive, I think that this is where computers are going and Apple is leading the way.

Actually, to be fair, I think Dell was already offering this option.

mmendoza27
Jan 22, 2008, 09:55 PM
I'm sure many of you have already read this article, but just thought I might bring it up: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/22/how_the_macbook_air_stacks_up_against_other_ultra_light_notebooks.html

I agree with both sides, I think they released the MBA a little earlier than they could have, which is why it's pricey and lacks some features.

Will it fail? No. I personally do everything wireless on my MacBook Pro. I have a Airport Extreme, external hard drive (where all my music and movies reside, I mean I've already used 450 GB of music and movies) and my 17" MBP. I stream all my music and movies to my MBP so I don't waste HD space and can keep it for applications, photos, and graphic design. So I already am a user that the MBA is aimed at, I just won't get right now... I may never get once, may just stick with another 17" MBP.

However, people should realize that this ultra-portable compares very well to similar offerings by Sony, Toshiba, IBM, Fujitsu, etc. Apple did not go into this without doing research.

tarl-cabot
Jan 23, 2008, 09:45 AM
LOL, brain to brain wireless, the max in minimalist design.

Meanwhile I scarfed one of these things up, I can hardly wait for Feb 11.

I'd be afraid of "Brain-to-Brain" (B2B) wireless. My system would keep coming up with "No Brains found within range" :D:p

One little note to comment on some of the (ODG so many) posts...the HW _IS_ different on the Macbook Air...it is NOT "just a bunch of SW updates"...and while I won't go into it (I know, I know..why should you believe ME (nothing I say or do would change most of the "brains" here anyway..so just accept or reject the statement as you wish)) here, let me say that the HW in the current MB and MBP's will NOT support multi-touch as implemented in the Air. The trackpads in the Air are physically different in order to be able to support multi-touch, and no SW update will make the current systems multi-touch capable...you'll need to wait on the HW to ripple into the next gen products :eek:. 'nuff said.:p

~tarl

t0mat0
Jan 23, 2008, 11:52 AM
Getting publicity on a dogma changing product is great. Users are more malleable to change by seeing a product as visually stunning as it, and seeing it's dogma challenging concepts that can be trickled down and enhanced upwards amongst the different Apple lineups. The big thing for me? Having the status quo changed on views about personal computers.

Examples of dogmas affected:
- SSD use in a laptop/desktop. Now an option in a mainstream laptop
- Multitouch touchpad. Coming to MBPs, MBs & huge UI shift potential
- Use of 1 USB port as a gateway to other ports (One Kensington docking box later, and that 1 USB port can link to lots of peripherals)
- (Pulldown access to ports)
- No optical drive/ wireless optical drive use, slaving pcs/macs around you to use their optical drive
- (Keyboard style)
- Motherboard/chip sizes
- Battery style. Seen elsewhere. Integrated = space saver. If they could work on making it an in house while you wait option, i think less would grumble.

View it as a laptop demonstrating concepts, and a damn fine ultralightweight/ultraslim laptop.

skinnylegs
Jan 23, 2008, 12:47 PM
Well stated.....

ilflyya
Jan 23, 2008, 01:03 PM
Jobs overshot the puck on this one.[/QUOTE]

Ethernet? I've not hooked up a computer to an actual modem via ethernet in 5 years! Isn't that what a wireless connection is for? The name of the thing is the Macbook Air, right? I think it lives up to its name. The complaints of the Air will be gone by 2010 and the nay sayers will have something new to complain about, but I guess that is called progress. Apple has changed the hearts and minds of a lot of PC users. People that have never taken a look at apple before (like myself only 6 mo. ago) are going crazy about their innovations now, and tell me that when their current laptop is obsolete, they're going to a Mac. That alone tells me Jobs knows what he is doing. If anything is being overshot, it's the competition.

CP1091
Jan 23, 2008, 08:33 PM
Well stated.....

Agreed. Nothing is ever perfect from the start, we all should know that!

jonswan
Jan 23, 2008, 08:40 PM
I wouldn't dispute that it's an amazing move by Apple though personally I can't stand that awful tapered design that looks like the worst Toshiba imaginable.

And that juvenile "world's thinnest laptop" as if it were SOOO important to have the thinnest. Sorry but that's pathetic.

It's also the battery issue - when Apple says 5 hours that means 5 hours with all the lights on dim, no airport, bluetooth etc. so let's call it 3 hrs 30.

Then there's the whole issue with wireless - I've had to use ethernet on many many occasions since upgrading to Leopard like many thousands of others due to airport issues - so I wonder how this is going to sit with the MBA when its only link is on then it's off ... then it's on ... then it's off...

Perhaps they'll make the MB thinner and have rounded edges instead of the wrist shredders currently used, but until then it's iMac/Powerbook for me.

bacaramac
Jan 23, 2008, 08:48 PM
wrong post

ArchiMark
Jan 23, 2008, 09:45 PM
Ethernet? I've not hooked up a computer to an actual modem via ethernet in 5 years! Isn't that what a wireless connection is for? The name of the thing is the Macbook Air, right?

[Snip...]



ilfyya,

While I agree with you in principle that WiFi is the way to go...

Unfortunately, at least for me, there are times when

A) I'm in a location where there's no WiFi available, but ethernet is....

and

B) The organization that I work for doesn't allow WiFi in our offices for security reasons right now, although that may change in the future. This means I need to use ethernet during the day at work whether I want to or not...

So, it's not always a simple choice of saying I'll just use WiFi...but again hopefully, this won't be case at some future date....

stracky
Jan 23, 2008, 09:50 PM
I'm missing the point because Apple want to show the world what a great laptop they can build? Don't be naive. Apple don't build this, ASUS or Acer are building this.

Is it a good design? Yes. Does it make it worth buying? No.

Is the Ferrari Enzo a good design? Yes. Could you drive this monster car to work and back and also do the shopping in it? No.

If they wanted to show the world how good they are at pushing the envelope, they could start by fixing their god-awful build quality, then putting proper 24-bit displays in their laptops instead of some tired old 18-bit displays. If they did that I would buy a new laptop, actually I need one as some bastard stole my laptop on Friday in Brussels. I want from Apple, a no compromise 17" 1080p 4gig, 320gb monster that can do anything a desktop machine can do, not a piece of cack that looks good on a coffee table in StarBucks.

i know this is back from page one, and i havent check all 200 plus posts but serioulsy, did anyone... especially gareth read this!! haha

talk about nit picking... the OP used the word "build" but that hardly makes him naive, possibly "designed" would be a better word to use but everyone knew what he meant. Maybe the build quality would improve if they didnt use ASUS or ACER whose own branded laptops have lower build and material qualitys than APPLE.

Gareth the enzo ferrari is not designed for your shopping trip, neither is the space shuttle, or a 747. like the them, the MBA is designed for a particular market, if thats not you, dont be upset because..... FYI you can get a MBP 17inch, with 4G ram, 1080p screen and put your own 500g HDD in (samsung about to release).

Naive??

phoxrenvatio
Jan 23, 2008, 10:05 PM
Well apparently you don't understand the word "that".



Yes, rolleyes indeed. Because if someone disagrees enough with another person it's a-okay to make threats and send letters that say they will come and kill you. What logic. Are you living in the middle ages or something?

In reality you're not only saying the above, you're actually saying it is okay to threaten people to silence if they disagree with you. You guys are the best. I really like your understanding of democracy and freedom of speech and how those two go hand in hand.

you are an oversensitive twit... if you dislike the MBA that much (and yes, i am using your favorite word), then go to one of the threads that just dog down the MBA. this one is trying to defend it, and being a potential buyer, i'm tired of hearing prejudiced rants about how crappy it is.

PS:
and to make sure you understand the word "prejudice" i will explain. you have this outright full opinion about how bad the computer is- without ever using it, or having been in a situation where this computer might be useful, we understand you think it's a piece of crap, move on with your life and let people discuss the upsides for once... go express you "free speech" on one of the many forums that agree with you, i've seen at least five today, go ahead and post there...

John.B
Jan 23, 2008, 10:15 PM
It's also the battery issue - when Apple says 5 hours that means 5 hours with all the lights on dim, no airport, bluetooth etc. so let's call it 3 hrs 30.
IIRC, the keynote said 5 hours of battery life with wifi on...

phoxrenvatio
Jan 23, 2008, 10:48 PM
It's also the battery issue - when Apple says 5 hours that means 5 hours with all the lights on dim, no airport, bluetooth etc. so let's call it 3 hrs 30.

IIRC, the keynote said 5 hours of battery life with wifi on...

with all of that stuff on....
wireless is the point, duh....

Ibjr
Jan 24, 2008, 01:03 AM
The MacBook Air was released to remind the world that Apple is way ahead of the rest of the industry. It is to plant in the minds of the consumer today the seed that will sprout into a visit to an Apple shop for a new laptop in 2010.


Enough people will buy it as a novelty item but many more will pop into an Apple store to see this incredible new machine. While they are there they will look at the much more practical laptops. It really is a way to drive interest in your portables -- which are the future of Apple's computers.

Tosser
Jan 24, 2008, 02:02 AM
you are an oversensitive twit... if you dislike the MBA that much (and yes, i am using your favorite word), then go to one of the threads that just dog down the MBA. this one is trying to defend it, and being a potential buyer, i'm tired of hearing prejudiced rants about how crappy it is.


It's not my "favourite" word. I am not a native english speaker, but I _was_ hoping that native english speakers was well aware that the word could be used as a submodifier:

adverb [as submodifier ]
to such a degree; so : I would not go that far.
• used with a gesture to indicate size : it was that big, perhaps even bigger.
• [with negative ] informal very : he wasn't that far away.

Just like you (although directly opposed), I am tired of people defending a product, simply because "I might buy it, so this 1.0-product is the perfect product".

PS:
and to make sure you understand the word "prejudice" i will explain. you have this outright full opinion about how bad the computer is- without ever using it, or having been in a situation where this computer might be useful, we understand you think it's a piece of crap, move on with your life and let people discuss the upsides for once... go express you "free speech" on one of the many forums that agree with you, i've seen at least five today, go ahead and post there...

I fully understand the word "prejudice". What's funny is, that you obviously don't. If it's prejudiced to state my opionion, simply because I haven't seen it yet, so it is prejudiced to state your overly enthusiastic opinion about the same machine, since you havent used it yet either.
Can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y?

vvebsta
Jan 24, 2008, 04:54 AM
i feel like this computer will be waiting for technology to catch up.

some situations that come to mind...
a client trying to show you his proposal which he burned on a dvd
ANY place with no internet
a client that needs firewire to connect his hard drive

these are basic things that allot of business people come across everyday

not everyone can run over to their pc and sent their projects over thin air.

tjcampbell
Jan 24, 2008, 05:39 AM
Well put.

kwood
Jan 24, 2008, 05:42 AM
Man, there are a lot of whiners here. If you want the MacBook Air buy it, if you don't wan it or i doesn't meet your needs then don't buy it. Why does everyone have to complain about it?

Tosser
Jan 24, 2008, 06:31 AM
Man, there are a lot of whiners here. If you want the MacBook Air buy it, if you don't wan it or i doesn't meet your needs then don't buy it. Why does everyone have to complain about it?

You're in a thread where pros and cons are (meant to be) discussed, yet you figure that everyone should just shut and buy it if they like, not if they don't?
Why complain about people discussing it? If you don't like that, perhaps you can find something else to pass time with?

What do you figure the purpose of a discussion forum is?

jonswan
Jan 24, 2008, 06:54 AM
Thanks for quoting me - famous for 5 seconds. Meanwhile all the experts got around 3 hrs 30 instead of the 5 hrs stated .... nice to be right but that crappy battery life was easy to spot. I remember when they said MBs would get 5.5 and all I got was 3.5...

Why whinge? Well, the MBA is a laptop that is around 18 months too early. I don't want wifi only, no firewire, no optical drive, no replaceable battery - none of that makes sense RIGHT NOW in business and elsewhere.

What makes people whine is that they were expecting something different:

A thinner updated MBP with new keyboard

A 12 inch MBP form factor type ultra-portable

An updated, thinner MB that still has all its bits

Instead we got this obsessively-compulsive anorexic frisbee that'll look gorgeous in the Apple store but will be steered clear of by most people until technology catches up with it - see you in 18 months.

Why whine? Why not? I've owned 3 powerbooks, 2 clamshells, a Macbook, a Macbook Pro, 2 iMacs, an iBook, 3 iPod Nanos and a sodding iPod Touch (and still own most of them), so clearly there's a lot of love involved here, but just not on this particular offering and so I do feel I have earned the right to have a good squawk. I think it's a mistake as although it's brilliant it's far too niche for most people.

weckart
Jan 24, 2008, 08:34 AM
Maybe the build quality would improve if they didnt use ASUS or ACER whose own branded laptops have lower build and material qualitys than APPLE.

No. Just stop right there.

Please learn to differentiate between ASUS and ACER. ACER has mostly targeted the lower end of the market. ASUS caters to all with prices, features and finishes to match.

dual64bit
Jan 24, 2008, 08:39 AM
Man, there are a lot of whiners here. If you want the MacBook Air buy it, if you don't wan it or i doesn't meet your needs then don't buy it. Why does everyone have to complain about it?

kwood hits the exact point. The MacPro is not for everyone, the MacBook is not for everyone (due to smaller screen), the iMac is not for everyone, why would anyone expect the MacBook Air to be for everyone?

I bought one, it won't be my primary computer but it will serve great use of using the internet and mail around the house.

It's a MOBILE computer, not a portable desktop computer. It serves for exactly what mobile computing is about.

spencecb
Jan 24, 2008, 09:21 AM
You need to do your research before making statements like that. The battery is not non-changeable, it's just not user-changeable. Apple will replace the battery for you for only the cost of the battery (http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/macbook-air-battery-replacements-129-free-install/) (US$129) - no install fee.

You also need a little research. The battery is indeed user-replaceable, with a simple screw driver. There are no third party batteries yet, but since this is true, you better believe you will be able to buy a battery and replace it on your own.

gwangung
Jan 24, 2008, 11:04 AM
You're in a thread where pros and cons are (meant to be) discussed, yet you figure that everyone should just shut and buy it if they like, not if they don't?

Well, the thread title is "The Real point of MacBook Air - and why everyone is missing it" and it seems to me that you're still missing it.

elmo151
Jan 24, 2008, 11:21 AM
Apple does not produce and sell products it does not expect to sell in volume. The simple economics of amortizing development costs and initial manufacturing costs require significant volume.

I remember someone at Dell saying that the iPod was a joke--it would never sell. Right!

The AirBook has an audience...a big one; people like me.

The complaints are not well founded:
..extra battery on trips
On a 12 hour flight you have to be crazy to have your laptop on for more than 5 hours. How many people ever spend 5 continuous hours pounding away.

battery replacement
I've had laptops since the CompaQ luggable in the 70's. It's rare, very rare,
to need a replacement.

missing a DVD
Hell, if you need one buy it.

Apple does the research to define their products. No single product meets all needs. This one appears to have met mine. :)

free*range
Jan 24, 2008, 11:58 AM
Great post! Reminds us all that we are not just MacAddicts, but also a slave to their desires to always be first to market. It's a strategy that's working. If not for the iMac and the deletion of the floppy disk... Apple may have been put on life support.

And, although I'm not a fan of the incredible shfit to a retail-focus, I think APple keeps doing things right.

However, I need the new 17" MBP and I NEED ALL THE PORTS I CAN GET... until the day comes when we don't. That day is not now. And the MBP is just a glimpse of the future - not yet a machine for the real user/power user.
____________________
17" PB G4 1.33.... waiting for the update.

neversink
Jan 24, 2008, 12:29 PM
The complaints are not well founded:
..extra battery on trips
On a 12 hour flight you have to be crazy to have your laptop on for more than 5 hours. How many people ever spend 5 continuous hours pounding away.

Wrong. Don't judge people about how long they stay on their laptop. Given the delays at airports, and the lack of outlets (as everyone with a computer is already plugged in) not being able to have a spare battery is a BIG GIG BIG mistake. Also, i tend to travel to areas where lectricity is scarce at times and I need the extra batteries....

battery replacement
I've had laptops since the CompaQ luggable in the 70's. It's rare, very rare,
to need a replacement.

But if you need to replace it you will have to shlepp to an Apple store and leave it there (or even worse, package it up and send it) and have to wait a few days or more and pay Apple to replace a battery which you could have done with more CONVENIENCE and with LESS COST if a battery compartment had been included.

missing a DVD
Hell, if you need one buy it.

Which adds more weight. DUH!!!!!!

Apple does the research to define their products. No single product meets all needs. This one appears to have met mine. :)

Glad you like it. However, you forgot to mention other gripes.
A) 80 Gig Hard drive.. small.....
B) no fire wire... only one USB... Tell me, how do I download my photos and store them into a portable external drive at the same time.

Yes, the product is COOL!!!! Who cares!!!! I'd rather carry 6 pounds in a Mac Book Pro than 3 pounds in an Air if I can have the relative security that i will be able to use it on demand, that I will have input options and that I will be able to use it in the middle of nowhere if I need to. Convenience, security and versatility is what I crave. It makes my Mac Book Pro much more cool than an Air....

cdarlington1
Jan 24, 2008, 12:58 PM
What features? It looks like the trackpad (except for shape) is the same as in the MBP, and all that wifi stuff is software based too.

The "features" you speak of is "non-features", except for the weight and the optional SSD. They're nonfeatures, because it really isn't anything more than omissions and downgrades in a pretty shelll. Hell, even the screen is exactly the same as in the current MacBook.
You too speak of size, but the computer has the same footprint as the current MacBook, and it really isn't that thin. No matter how it looks from great angles, it's still not thinner than it's wides point, just like a car isn't, say, 1 metre tall, just because the bonnet (hood for you americans) is at that height. You have to include the roof too, you know.

Read opening post again....seems to me you didn't read it...:rolleyes:

cdarlington1
Jan 24, 2008, 01:00 PM
Glad you like it. However, you forgot to mention other gripes.
A) 80 Gig Hard drive.. small.....
B) no fire wire... only one USB... Tell me, how do I download my photos and store them into a portable external drive at the same time.

Yes, the product is COOL!!!! Who cares!!!! I'd rather carry 6 pounds in a Mac Book Pro than 3 pounds in an Air if I can have the relative security that i will be able to use it on demand, that I will have input options and that I will be able to use it in the middle of nowhere if I need to. Convenience, security and versatility is what I crave. It makes my Mac Book Pro much more cool than an Air....

Sounds like you should keep buying Macbook Pro's and those of us who want a Macbook Air can keep buying Macbook Air's....;)

Tosser
Jan 24, 2008, 01:59 PM
Well, the thread title is "The Real point of MacBook Air - and why everyone is missing it" and it seems to me that you're still missing it.

Yes, indeed – we are in such a thread. But do you seriously expect people on a discussion forum to just take the OP's word for it? Or perhaps it is yet another example of someone trying to force people that disagree (with basically everything) away. Wouldn't it be swell if we were all drones? The fine art of disagreeing (i.e. debating) seems to be lost on so many around these parts.

Tosser
Jan 24, 2008, 02:03 PM
Btw, those of you that has the dough to upgrade to the SSD, but not sure if it's the way to go, I found this:

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/products/flash/Products_FlashSSD.html

Scroll down a bit. Very informative.

For instance the sustained R/W on a 1.8 inch is 20/20MB/s (Megabyte, not Mbit), whereas on a (Samsung) SSD it's 100/80. That _has_ to mean quite the difference in the real world.

Tosser
Jan 24, 2008, 02:18 PM
Read opening post again....seems to me you didn't read it...:rolleyes:

Oh I did. Read the posts above. It seems to be a perfect fit for you.

mrJnC
Jan 24, 2008, 02:25 PM
However, you forgot to mention other gripes.
A) 80 Gig Hard drive.. small.....

I think the 80GB HDD is just a placeholder for now until the $$$ of SSD's come down, and their capacity increases. It's been mentioned elsewhere that the iPod 160GB HDD is too thick to fit in the MBA.

color guy
Jan 25, 2008, 07:57 AM
Don't know if anybody is still reading this thread but,
i'm sensing some mis undersstanding here.

I think when folks complain about the replaceable battery, they mean
the familiar routine of
taking an extra one on trips and popping it in using a dime to open the latch.

I think thats separate from the issue of having it fail and having to take it in for replacement.

Also, to answer the question about who needs more than 5 hours on a flight,
don't forget all the time spent waiting around these days before the plane actually takes off. and if you watch a movie or two on a long flight, i could see running out of battery.
I may not be typical of most posters here. I prefer a couple of books over lugging
expensive delicate theftable electronic stuff on trips. i like to travel
light. Most americans bring way too much stuff. Of course i don't travel for buisiness that much.

Don't want to start a flame war here by using the T word,
but the touch/tablet form would be great for travelling. (FOR ME).
If i could do basic editing on docs , bring a powerpoint presentation on board, mail, net,
and bring along movies, music, and photos, that would be awesome.
I bet a lot of folks don't need more than that.
I'm thinking the itouch is a real sleeper. I think it might catch a wave this
summer. I'll probably be getting one.