More MacBook Air Details and Notes [Archive] - Page 2

euanmackie

Jan 17, 2008, 09:22 AM

I really need some advice! Would someone please help me out?

I sold my White MacBook a couple of months before the Keynote, due to the rumors of a new MacBook! Waheyy!

Anyway, I'm not bothered about the lack of an optical drive - I am slightly worried about 1 USB port and a small hard drive. Not to mention no AUDIO INPUT!

I'm a music producer/DJ and need enough power to run Propellerhead Reason, Cubase, Logic and Serato Scratch. If this little thing has the power to do this then I WILL buy one - as lugging the fairly weighty MacBook to clubs and bars, along with a bag of vinyl is annoying.

I want to put ALL my music on an external drive anyway - including ripping all my old Vinyl - therefore all I'd have to take is the MBA, Serato and a pair of cans! That would be soooo cool, especially with such a lightweight notebook.

Soooo, will the 1.8Ghz version run Reason, Cubase & Logic well? These are the most resource intensive apps I use!

Oh, and I'm going to New York with my school on the 13th February. We are visiting the Cube Apple Store lol. Would I be able to buy one over there and take it back with me?

Are there any differences to worry about?

Thanks, Joe.

it should be fine i run thos apps on a old emac and there just as quick as a macbook. bringing it back to the uk is fine just need to pick up either a socket adapter or the travel kit by apple and it will work, there built for both powersettings, but think wisly about the MBA is it the right product for you? no audio input would kill me! and getting thru customs is fine, i was too carefull, i posted back the instruction manual and things like that and put my MBP in a old used case and walked thru, there was no one there!!! but it is breaking the law. blah blab blah! if ur under 18 i belive there might be a rule were u can get away with it !

Joe2000

Jan 17, 2008, 09:42 AM

it should be fine i run thos apps on a old emac and there just as quick as a macbook. bringing it back to the uk is fine just need to pick up either a socket adapter or the travel kit by apple and it will work, there built for both powersettings, but think wisly about the MBA is it the right product for you? no audio input would kill me! and getting thru customs is fine, i was too carefull, i posted back the instruction manual and things like that and put my MBP in a old used case and walked thru, there was no one there!!! but it is breaking the law. blah blab blah! if ur under 18 i belive there might be a rule were u can get away with it !

Thanks man! Yeah it is a real squeeze. I was hoping for at least a full range of I/O ports! :eek:

Well it seems like a modern laptop cube to me! But I'm a sucker for cool and will almost certainly end up taking the plunge. I wont go back to a plastic MacBook so its either mba or a mbp now.

I will be using an external soundcard and a USB hub when at home. It will almost be like a docking station. Floating laptop stand. 8-Port USB hub for all the extras. Should be fine. I will take it everywhere!

Will defo think on it though, as it is a lot of ££ to spend on a computer!

Thanks, Joe.

drsmithy

Jan 17, 2008, 09:49 AM

Okay, also its been like 4 years since the PB 12inch.

In that period we have saved 1.6 lbs with a bit larger of a screen, but no optical drive, no removable battery, many fewer ports.

Wouldn't a PB 12inch with the only change being an LED screen go down to like 4lbs? It would also be say 0.8 or 0.9 inches thick.

So all that engineering and 4 years of advances saved us 1lb and a touch of thickness at the price of more width and length (again if you exclude the LED).

To this day, I cannot grasp why Apple did not use the Black MacBook, specced up with a discrete video card, etc, to replace the 12" PB.

A 13.3" MBP, with a docking station, would be damn close to laptop nirvana, especially for corporate customers. WHY THE HELL DOESN'T IT EXIST !?

drsmithy

Jan 17, 2008, 09:50 AM

Sorry but this does not sound right. The size of the drive should have nothing to do with it.

Some areas of a disk are written more offten than others, and some areas may never get written over.

How many times a single byte can be written over before it fails to hold a value?
That is the worst case scenario and we then take it from there to a better value by projecting that only 16% (pick a number) or so of the drive would be subject to that level of activity. Then add to that the ability to move a sector and you get better numbers. But you have to start with the worst case, so the size of the drive should not be a main consideration. Most people dont write into a drive from one end to another and start again, the writes are not that distributed or random.

Sorry

Any remotely current SSD uses wear-levelling to avoid this.

This is also why the larger drive has a longer lifetime (more cells to average the writes over).

NYCMacFan

Jan 17, 2008, 09:54 AM

Sorry, but for someone who travels a lot, a 40-50% reduction in weight is not 'relatively insignificant'.

40%. By the way, imagine if they took an existing macbook, switched to LED, tossed out the optical drive and used an aluminum case instead.

The new machine would be about .8 thick, have the same foot print (actually a touch smaller!) and probably be just under 4lbs.

If they then put in an SSD or 1.8 HDD in place of the 2.5 HDD, chucked some ports, and then chucked one of speakers that would save as well. Starts to get close to 3.5lbs without any engineering at all and just a few parts changes.

So when you look at this MBA's engineering, its not that impressive... You could see that just incorporating the existing screens and case from the MBP saves you most of the weight.

EdRossignol

Jan 17, 2008, 10:00 AM

Because $3000 in the US is in our native currency. Your euro buys a lot more than a dollar does. By the way we're heading into a recession here and I believe it's risky timing for Apple to be relying on fashion items for their lineup.

You say that but, its obviously to do with UK price fixing.
Another example is Microsoft Windows Vista, where upon release it had an RRP of $249 (£127) in the United States and £249 ($487) in the United Kingdom. This makes it almost twice as expensive to buy in the UK than in America, which tax differences alone cannot account for.
Why should we pay more?
It was the same with the PS3, £435 rrp on release, almost $900.

Uk isnt looking to good since the government decided to bail out Northern Rock, £2000 per person it has cost the UK...

tjmrpm04

Jan 17, 2008, 10:07 AM

Now let's use these reasons for the MacBook Air:

1) The MacBook Air, far from being agile, is dramatically underpowered. It's much less 'agile" than a cheap four-seat car or a cheap, thicker laptop. It will
be much less fun to drive than a normal laptop for half the price.

What the heck are you doing with your laptop that requires "Agility?" Do you take it home at night and ride it like a pony or something? Furthermore, how do you know that it will not be "fun" to drive? Do you own a pre-release or prototype of the Air? If you have used one for more than a month (a general fair amount of time to gain a lasting impression of a product) then I apologize for doubting your opinion of the product. If you haven't, then why is it even feasible to make assumptions about the enjoyment factor of the laptop. Some people use a computer but still like to hug trees and eat organic foods because of the environmental impact, so the fact that this is one of the most Environmentally friendly laptops on the market would indeed make enjoyment factor of the Air much greater for the "Tree Hugger" market.

2) The MacBook Air's footprint is the same as a normal laptop or a "four-set car". You can't fit it anywhere you can't fit a normal laptop, except an envelope. My productivity and "driving pleasure" are SEVERELY REDUCED inside an envelope.

Holy crap!!! You are kidding me? I can't fold it up and put it in my pocket? Personally I think that is a good thing. I am a MacBook owner (not MacBook Pro) and the fact that the footprint is the same (same Screen Size and Keyboard) is a plus in my book. Again, I am not going to rush out and buy one for that fact alone but the fact that I can keep a fullsize keyboard and the 13.3" Screen is awesome. Also, since you seem hellbent on this two seater vs. four-seat car example, lets look at it this way. Say you own a BMW 7-series. But then BMW releases and additional 7-series model that runs on fuel cells so that it is more environmentaly friendly, and it weighs a fraction of the weight of your 7-series. Would you bitch at BMW because it is the same size and the other 7-series? I watched the keynote and the ad's and I don't anything claiming that the footprint was intended to be smaller. Also, how is your productivity reduced? If it is going to be, you dont have to buy one. Finally, you mention your "driving pleasure", again, what the hell are you doing with your laptops?

3) The power/weight ratio of a MacBook Air is almost exactly the same as a MacBook. Not to mention that a 5 pound laptop is hardly a great burden, the number is so small that it's irrelevant. Cutting off two pounds doesn't change anyone's experience in any meaningful way.

Ok, don't buy an Air and keep a MacBook. It seems that all the other manufacturers of Laptops think that getting under the 3 lb mark is important since that seems to be the standard benchmark for their Ultralight laptops (read ultralight not ultra-agile). Also all the other manufacturers get under the 3 lb benchmark with crowded keyboards and smaller screens.

4) The wind will blow through your hair a lot better on a thicker laptop than it will with the underpowered MacBook AIr.

Ahhhh so the blowing adds to the "driving experience". It is more pleasurable when you have a less "agile" blower!

In short, the reasons for a Miata have nothing to do with the reasons for a MacBook Air, and that's essentially because there are no reasons for a MacBook Air at all. This computer will make The Cube look like a great product success.

When the new designed MacBook Pro comes out could you write a review before you use it comparing it to the difference between a Thoroughbred and a Pony? Or maybe between a Shih Tzu and a Doberman? That would be fun wouldn't it?

Ok figured I could start the day with this and maybe it would be better than yesterday. Oh damn, forgot to warn you again iRabbit. Hopefully you were not filled to the brim with coffee prior to the read.

Have a great week people! My pearl of wisdom today is the same as yesterday....If you don't like the product don't buy it. I personally don't like Salmon but don't feel it necessary to post about the downfalls and failures in taste and texture on a culinary board.

I'm out yo'. (hmmmm not as enjoyable as yesterday's "peace out").

Thom

AidenShaw

Jan 17, 2008, 10:23 AM

You might want to consider that there are new rules on how many batteries you can carry with you while flying now.

The rules are at: http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

There are limits on Lithium Ion batteries larger than 100 WHr - since even the MBP battery is only 68 WHr, so it's not affected (except that loose spare batteries cannot be in checked luggage, must be in carryon - ok to check the laptop with the battery installed, but not the loose battery alone). Even my 9 cell extended battery for my Dell is under 100 WHr - it's 85 WHr.

This new rule will affect video photographers more than computer users - many batteries for video cameras and lights are over 100 WHr.

At 5 hours usage with the network running (Apple's figures so it might be more or less)

Unlikely to be more ;) .

A big issue is that the Core 2 Duo is actually quite a power pig when you make it work hard. My 2.33GHz Core 2 Duo Dell says that it should get about 8 hrs (with two batteries) when I start it up and leave it alone for a few minutes. If I push it (say do some compiling or photo manipulation and run some other stuff in a virtual machine) I can flatten both batteries in an hour and a half. Hint: If the fan comes on, check the battery gauge....

So even if Apple's 5 hours is honest (for the load that they put on the machine for the test), doing some work on the machine could easily cut that in half.

That means that your MBA dies somewhere over a "flyover state", or at about 11:00 during the conference morning session - and you have no recourse.

People always complain about integrated batteries but people still buy them anyway (the iPod would have been DOA if this reason actually mattered).

Three comments:

Ipod audio run times are 20 to 40 hours - that will comfortably last for a full day of activity. The MBA is tops 5 hours - that won't cover a flight from the west coast to Chicago, nor a day of meetings. If the true life is half that, it won't even cover the morning session, or a flight from San Francisco to Seattle. (Note that larger meetings and conferences seldom have a power strip by every seat.)
Your Ipod running out of juice is an inconvience, your laptop quitting can be a career limiting event
Many add-on battery solutions exist for the Ipod, perhaps soon one will appear for the MBA (like the APC universal external battery (http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=UPB70))

tjmrpm04

Jan 17, 2008, 10:27 AM

The only way into your Air through a wire is USB, so no matter what you clip onto the outside, you're limited to USB speeds. If you want to use an external mouse (not crazy at all) while the transfer is in progress, you need a USB hub, which is going to slow it down even more.

Hmmmmm.....I thought it was called MacBook "AIR", not MacBook "AIR except for the people who are pissed because they can't plug an RJ45 into it". The whole concept is about Wireless. This is designed and marketed as a Wireless Lightweight Portable Laptop. It is not to be the MacBook or MacBook Pro replacement. Apple never once said we are doing away with all prior laptops and this is your only Apple laptop option now, or was that mentioned after Randy Newman left the stage because I couldn't watch much of Randy. BTW, did you know that you cannot plug an Ethernet Cable into the iPhone or iTouch either? Shhhhh don't tell anyone they may get mad about that too.

AidenShaw

Jan 17, 2008, 10:36 AM

The whole concept is about Wireless.

I wonder if Apple has figured out how to get good range from radio antennae enclosed in an aluminium shell....

eVolcre

Jan 17, 2008, 10:45 AM

Well, I didn't know which thread to post this in so this one it is.

I've been reading, analzing and thinking about the MBA for weeks now. Was I disappointed? Perhaps. But only because the hype was so huge, and some of the mockups so ... different. This, well, it's nice and small and light, but it's just another laptop at the end of the day. Fits my 'exec' needs as long as I have a heavy lifter at home. For what I do now (consulting), on the road abroad ALL the time, only one laptop to do everything I needed the screen space, the DVD player etc etc etc. But once I have a normal everyday lifestyle, I'd sell my current workhorse and pick up an iMac for home and the MBA (or the next iteration) for work. And I am NOT some crazy mac fan boy or just a star struck exec with money to waste. My machine prior to this was a 12" PB G4 which was great for grad school but once I decided to get into international consulting, I need ONE computer that can do everything and this is it

But ... and here it comes .. (I'm working in Kuwait right now BTW), I just got a call from my CEO, the Director of Network Planning AND the Director of Sales. They've all seen me around the office with my tricked out MBB17, I've tried evangelizing Apple to them, showed them OSX, showed them Parallels, how light my laptop was even when compared to their Windows 15" machines etc etc etc. Nothing worked. When the MBA came out I sent a one line email to my CEO .. the line about it being thinner than the Sony at it's thickest end and the picture.

They were sold. Forget the specs, forget the power of OSX this is one sexy 'I gotta have it' machine and people will buy it. There are now 3 MAC converts. They all have iPods, Apple TVs, iphones etc etc etc but when it comes to computing, Apple still seems 'different'.

It's a brilliant strategy. Get the sexy, some say underpowered machines, into the top execs and watch the IT departments slowly start switching to MacBook's for normal staff, MBP for people who need power and maybe even the XServe. Who knows.

I personally would buy it for logical reasons adding it to a desktop. My execs just bought it purely for sex appeal but there's a little more to it than that .. they truly don't need much power from their laptops. There were orders placed for Sony Viao ultraportables but as of an hour ago, they've switched to the MBA.

Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to share here that this machine meets people's needs and Apple just did with 'sex appeal' what I've been trying to do using logic and hands on demos for 6 months.

Oh, and BTW, even as a second machine I don't really want anything smaller than a 13", even if it has a smaller footprint. This one would let me do real work (spreadsheets, web research, documents, presentations etc) and let me type on a full keyboard. Not to mention, I allready have a briefcase. This is about as big as a legal pad right? I need to carry legal pads, contracts anyway, what good does a smaller footprint do for me?

Carry on

eV

drsmithy

Jan 17, 2008, 10:52 AM

Am I the only one who does this? Maybe I am.

No, you're not. This demographic is bar far the largest chunk of corporate laptop users. It's also why the small laptops by Toshiba, Dell, IBM, etc (WITH DOCKING STATIONS) are so popular.

However, the corporate laptop (indeed, the corporate customer in general) is not Apple's target market. I eagerly await the day I can get a ~13" (or even 15") MBP and an accompanying docking station, but I can't see it happening any time soon and I'm pretty sure my next work laptop will need to be a PC. Oh well, maybe I can make a Hackintosh out of it...

No compromises. The best of portable when I want it; best at the desk when I need it.

Unfortunately you still have the biggest problem with using both a laptop and a desktop - synchronising personal data between them.

jragosta

Jan 17, 2008, 11:11 AM

No, you're not. This demographic is bar far the largest chunk of corporate laptop users. It's also why the small laptops by Toshiba, Dell, IBM, etc (WITH DOCKING STATIONS) are so popular.

However, the corporate laptop (indeed, the corporate customer in general) is not Apple's target market. I eagerly await the day I can get a ~13" (or even 15") MBP and an accompanying docking station, but I can't see it happening any time soon and I'm pretty sure my next work laptop will need to be a PC. Oh well, maybe I can make a Hackintosh out of it...

Or perhaps this is one sign of Apple going after the corporate market. There have been a number of articles recently indicating that Apple should do more to get the corporate market. *

BTW, you are aware that you can use Windows on a Mac, right (either within Mac OS X via Fusion or Parallels or as the primary OS)? If you find that the feature set and price of the MBA is competitive, why not wipe the hard drive and install Windows if that's what you need? (In the past, I felt there were few cases where this made sense, but given the MBA's price advantage against the competition, this might be one of them).

* Looks like someone agrees with me:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1196&tag=nl.e622

canisreevus

Jan 17, 2008, 11:36 AM

Someone might have already mentioned this (I didn't read the entire thread). The $129 cost for a replacement battery is for those out of warranty. If it is still under warranty, it is at no cost.

BRLawyer

Jan 17, 2008, 12:14 PM

Probably in 2 weeks from now you should see them showing up in the Apple stores.

I just returned from L.A. to Europe and wasn't able to find it on the Santa Monica store; but this thing is definitely GORGEOUS...everybody I talked to was impressed, even if it's not a full-blown machine but more like a companion notebook...

Apple simply raises the bar again with NO COMPETITION whatsoever in the market; this thing gonna sell like hotcakes for anyone in need of a powerful yet streamlined machine...I am gonna definitely get one when it comes to Europe...GO APPLE! :rolleyes:

AidenShaw

Jan 17, 2008, 12:25 PM

but this thing is definitely GORGEOUS...everybody I talked to was impressed, even if it's not a full-blown machine but more like a companion notebook...

You didn't talk to people at Macworld, though, or me.... ;)

The Iphone is gorgeous.

On the other hand, the MBA looks like a nice update to the Dell Latitude X1. (Except that the X1 is smaller, lighter, with a full complement of ports, and a replaceable battery. The X1 is just thicker)

If you don't believe me - do a search for "macbook air" and "latitude x1", and look at all of the commentary comparing the two.

Ive is now copying old Dell designs, but the fanbois don't notice. Nice job of making it thin (at the expense of a lot of practicality), but it could easily be mistaken for an updated X1 at first glance.

BRLawyer

Jan 17, 2008, 12:32 PM

Unlikely to be more ;) .

A big issue is that the Core 2 Duo is actually quite a power pig when you make it work hard. My 2.33GHz Core 2 Duo Dell says that it should get about 8 hrs (with two batteries) when I start it up and leave it alone for a few minutes. If I push it (say do some compiling or photo manipulation and run some other stuff in a virtual machine) I can flatten both batteries in an hour and a half. Hint: If the fan comes on, check the battery gauge....

So even if Apple's 5 hours is honest (for the load that they put on the machine for the test), doing some work on the machine could easily cut that in half.

Actually Apple is the ONLY company where battery life estimations are likely to be shorter than reality...just check the latest iPods and Macworld's findings... ;)

BRLawyer

Jan 17, 2008, 12:40 PM

You didn't talk to people at Macworld, though, or me.... ;)

The Iphone is gorgeous.

On the other hand, the MBA looks like a nice update to the Dell Latitude X1. (Except that the X1 is smaller, lighter, with a full complement of ports, and a replaceable battery. The X1 is just thicker)

If you don't believe me - do a search for "macbook air" and "latitude x1", and look at all of the commentary comparing the two.

Ive is now copying old Dell designs, but the fanbois don't notice. Nice job of making it thin (at the expense of a lot of practicality), but it could easily be mistaken for an updated X1 at first glance.

Comparing Apples/OS X with Dells/Vista? No, thanks, this is a no-brainer... ;) But I wasn't expecting you to support my statements anyway...there are fanboys on both sides of the fence, you know... ;)

Replaceable battery? Who cares? If you need one after two years just buy it at Apple...I've never replaced mine for my 2002 iBook anyway. ;)

Kinetic

Jan 17, 2008, 12:45 PM

Actually Apple is the ONLY company where battery life estimations are likely to be shorter than reality...just check the latest iPods and Macworld's findings... ;)

I have to agree with you. One thing that has always impressed me is I get more or close to the battery life out of my Apple products (Powerbook, Macbook Pro, iPods, etc) that they state. Other companies always overstate but Apple's pretty much been right on.

Lesser Evets

Jan 17, 2008, 01:21 PM

The 'sexy cool' factor is nice.

Ultimately, for value, you have to ask what you are paying so much for.... no optical drive? Regular sized screen? Small-ish SSD? Super duper fast processor (bwhaha!)?

So it is $1800 for a mediocre notebook computer.

That is thin.

Sad. A good bauble. A nice status symbol. A mediocre product, especially at that price. It'll do well.

unregbaron

Jan 17, 2008, 01:47 PM

I think a lot of the negativity about the MBA is, as has already been said, people not getting the machine they wanted.

My point is that those of us on this board are already Apple converts, this new thin machine is designed to do for laptops what the ipod did for mp3 players.

It will get a whole new audience tuned into Macs and to me that's exciting and great.

jragosta

Jan 17, 2008, 01:57 PM

You didn't talk to people at Macworld, though, or me.... ;)

The Iphone is gorgeous.

On the other hand, the MBA looks like a nice update to the Dell Latitude X1. (Except that the X1 is smaller, lighter, with a full complement of ports, and a replaceable battery. The X1 is just thicker)

The X1 (http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/dell-latitude-x1/4505-3121_7-31320873.html) also has a dirt slow processor (I guess we know what Intel did with all those Pentium M processors instead of throwing them in the dumpster where they belong), 1/4 the RAM, just over half the maximum RAM, smaller screen, half the hard drive size, 3 hour battery life, and $200 more than the MBA. Oh, and that doesn't even mention that the X1 is no longer available and forces you to use Windows or Linux.

No wonder you advocate Windows - if you consider that to be a reasonable comparison.

Comparing Apples/OS X with Dells/Vista? No, thanks, this is a no-brainer... ;) But I wasn't expecting you to support my statements anyway...there are fanboys on both sides of the fence, you know... ;);)

The funny thing is that he thinks the Dell X1 is comparable to the MBA - even though it's inferior in nearly every regard (except weight) as outlined in my previous post.

Amazing the depths some people will sink to to try to criticize Apple.

lowbuzz

Jan 17, 2008, 02:11 PM

MacBook Flair.

As in - "Hey, check out the metrosexual sportin' the macbook flair!"

No, wait... they'll already be carrying it around in their man purse.

If they take my stapler, then I'll set the building on fire.

AidenShaw

Jan 17, 2008, 02:25 PM

...the X1 is no longer available.

The current model is the Latitude D430 (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/latit_d430?c=us&l=en&s=biz&cs=555).

3 lbs, 11.6" by 8.25", 1" thick (1.36kg , 295mm x 209.8mm x 25.4mm) - 1.2" narrower, 0.7" less deep, 0.25" thicker

Ports: PC Card (Express card adapter available), Docking connector, 3 USB, VGA, headphone/speaker out, RJ-11, RJ-45, AC power, integrated microphone, IEEE1394, SD card slot

Holy crap, Batman. The Dell has FireWire, and the Apple doesn't :eek:

The funny thing is that he thinks the Dell X1 is comparable to the MBA.

Please re-read - I said that the MBA styling looks like an update to the X1. I'm not alone in that opinion.

And, of course the MBA is more powerful than a Dell released 3 years ago!

Replaceable battery? Who cares? If you need one after two years just buy it at Apple...

Please re-read - the replaceable battery isn't important for repairs, it's to be able to carry a spare battery for when X hours (whatever X happens to be for you) isn't enough. IMO it's a non issue as regards to a battery failure - but an important issue for usability (meaning runtime).

MacBook Flair.

Or perhaps it will end up being the "MacBook Cube", based on the number of negative comments here ;) .

dbressler

Jan 17, 2008, 02:33 PM

Anyone know the following:

1. Does the OS take advantage of the speed improvements of a flash drive? Everyone's comparing with Dell, but Dell came out and explicitly said that the flash drive was for durability, not for speed.

2. Anyone know how the flash drive improves battery life? Any guesses? An extra hour? Extra 20%? Ideas?

3. Being a PC guy (yeah, it sucks) how much space is left on the drive when it gets to your house with a standard install? Or, asked better, how much space does the default install take?

Thanks,

David

ncbill

Jan 17, 2008, 02:40 PM

I think you've nailed it.

I get the feeling the design specs were:

1. Must use our current MB 13" screen
2. Must weigh no more than 3 lb.
3. Aluminum case
4. No optical drive
5. Everything else negotiable

Sticking with the MB's 1" thick base would have allowed Apple to keep the MB's I/O ports and maybe add some more (e.g. 2 FW800 ports on the left side, move the USB ports to the right side, and add an ExpressCard slot on the right side)

Even using a 2.5" hard drive, I'd bet it wouldn't have weighed more than 3.5 lbs. - a half-pound more would have eliminated most of the compromises we see in the MBA.

40%. By the way, imagine if they took an existing macbook, switched to LED, tossed out the optical drive and used an aluminum case instead.

The new machine would be about .8 thick, have the same foot print (actually a touch smaller!) and probably be just under 4lbs.

If they then put in an SSD or 1.8 HDD in place of the 2.5 HDD, chucked some ports, and then chucked one of speakers that would save as well. Starts to get close to 3.5lbs without any engineering at all and just a few parts changes.

So when you look at this MBA's engineering, its not that impressive... You could see that just incorporating the existing screens and case from the MBP saves you most of the weight.

inmyname

Jan 17, 2008, 02:46 PM

I have to chuckle when I read a post suggesting that people who buy the macbook air can restore the functionality and extend the capabilities to meet their needs by carrying extra little boxes for usb hubs, external drives, cables and as yet not invented battery extenders.. without seeming to recognise that those extras increase the total volume and weight that they are paying a price premium to have apple remove from their laptop. I wonder how big the padded laptop bag to carry all that around in is and how much it weighs.

And for those folk who suggest that air owners shell out for a wireless router.. I guess you'd have to hope that the office you try and visit don't mind you plugging that wireless router (that you carried!!!) into their ethernet network, making the patch live, and checking to make sure its secure enough to not fret that some drive by hacker is going to take advantage of the new signal.

To be honest, I might suggest any smug macbook air owner who tried to share my CD-ROM/DVD drive over wifi that they should have brought one of those with them too! How light is that envelope now mister? I wouldn't let an untrusted person access my office network.. they might try and steal my data, or expose my systems (and data) to something harmful.

And if in order for that macbook air to share my drive, I needed to install some other software on my computer??? hahahaaaaaaa. You think I trust you? Are you going to accept liability if something goes wrong with my computer/network or mys software mysteriously stops working properly afterwards? I'll make you come fully equipped to do what you need to do or don't bother showing up.

Jarcreative

Jan 17, 2008, 02:55 PM

Mr Jobs, please remove your head from your arse. We need replaceable batteries.

Not having a replaceable battery on an iPod is acceptable
Not having a replaceable battery on an iPhone is very annoying
Not having a replaceable battery on a laptop is unacceptable and down right idiotic

I have had 7 replacement batteries in 2 laptops in 2 years. Obviously, they have some serious issues when it comes to having good batteries. Why does he think its ok to have a laptop that can't have its battery replaced by the user, and they charge $129 for a new one. This is going to kill most people who would purchase it for travel. I know many sales guys who carry extra batteries for everything from their phone, DVD player, laptop, etc. When I travel, I carry 2 batteries for my laptop.

Its going to kill sales.

The air is not for pro user/mac forum geeks who lick batteries between final cut editing sessions. This is for fashion models (and the 90% of the population that wants to be a fashion model) who don't know or care the first thing about battery replacement. It goes way beyond the ultra portable niche in that it has a full size screen and keyboard - so no significant user compromise. It's a sexed up macbook that every non pro user will want and will seriously consider paying an extra chunk of change for.

A girl in my office is seriously considering selling her brand new macbook to get one. The only downside will be most of the sales will be at the cost of macbooks....

AidenShaw

Jan 17, 2008, 03:21 PM

drsmithy

Jan 17, 2008, 03:24 PM

Sorry, but for someone who travels a lot, a 40-50% reduction in weight is not 'relatively insignificant'.

I do travel a lot, and the weight reduction of 0.9kg is insignificant. *Especially* in the fact of a) how much functionality is lost to gain that weight; and b) other laptops which fit the "portability" requirement far better.

If you can handle the functionality cut of the MBA, you can certainly handle the (relatively smaller) functionality cut of the Vaio TZ or Toshiba R500 and have a much more portable machine due to their smaller footprints.

lowbuzz

Jan 17, 2008, 03:42 PM

Oh well, my Macbook Flair joke didn't even wake the crickets.

But my fave on here is the guy who defends it cuz he doesn't have enough strength to lift the extra 3 ounces or whatnot :) The back and forth on that was hilarious!

I just keep picturing this guy, laying down his MacBook Air and saying,

"Honey, I gotta go. Y'know I can't do this by myself anymore."

Hopefully they'll make a catheter dongle and make it the PERFECT laptop for the poor guy.

inmyname

Jan 17, 2008, 04:08 PM

bluetooth as well????

Wow.. a really minimal yet expensive laptop that isn't much smaller than the macbook..

I think I can imagine how the latest "get a mac ads" will play...

[Fanfare!]
Introducing the New Mac Book Air!
Camera shot of an extra ordinarily beautiful woman's face.

"Hi! I'm the new Mac Book Air!! Hello Mac, Hello PC!!"

Simoultaneously drooling PC and Mac reply - "Hello Macbook Air!! You're really slim and beautiful!"

Camera pulls back to reveal more of Macbook Air. She waves and smiles!

PC- "Say gorgeous, how about you and me get together and do something.. later? Play some games or something??"

MacBook Air - "Sure, I have all the capabilities of my fully featured relative, the macbook. We can do that!"

PC-" What do you mean fully featured? Is there something wrong with you?"

Macbook Air - "Oh no, silly! I was designed like this. You see to get as slim as this, I had to have one of my arms amputated!"

PC - "Oh???"

Macbook Air - " And one of my breasts"

PC - "Umm.. really? And you can do everything with just one arm and one breast?"

MacBook Air -" Of course silly! A mac computer is much more than just two arms and two breasts!!"

Macbook chips in- "And two legs"

Macbook Air - "Oh..[sounds sad]"

Camera pulls back and reveals MacBook Air has no legs either.

PC -" Umm, do you still have somewhere to plug an ethernet cable in?"

BRLawyer

Jan 17, 2008, 04:19 PM

The X1 (http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/dell-latitude-x1/4505-3121_7-31320873.html) also has a dirt slow processor (I guess we know what Intel did with all those Pentium M processors instead of throwing them in the dumpster where they belong), 1/4 the RAM, just over half the maximum RAM, smaller screen, half the hard drive size, 3 hour battery life, and $200 more than the MBA. Oh, and that doesn't even mention that the X1 is no longer available and forces you to use Windows or Linux.

No wonder you advocate Windows - if you consider that to be a reasonable comparison.

Don't worry, Aiden Shaw always does that...he NEVER acknowledges anything good in Apple products, and always tends to forget the competitors' shortcomings...

Besides, just let me know when Dell has the same industrial reliability as Apple, the same level of design and innovation and runs OS X...in other words, never... ;)

This just in, for instance; any comments, Aiden? ;)

http://images.appleinsider.com/changewave-080117.gif

drsmithy

Jan 17, 2008, 04:24 PM

Or perhaps this is one sign of Apple going after the corporate market. There have been a number of articles recently indicating that Apple should do more to get the corporate market. *

Difficult to see how. The MBA is a poor fit for typical corporate needs (if for no other reason than the lack of a docking station), with the possible exception of the "Executives' latest gadget" demographic. When most business employees get a laptop, they're expected to use it as their only machine. The MBA is a poor fit for this requirement.

BTW, you are aware that you can use Windows on a Mac, right (either within Mac OS X via Fusion or Parallels or as the primary OS)? If you find that the feature set and price of the MBA is competitive, why not wipe the hard drive and install Windows if that's what you need? (In the past, I felt there were few cases where this made sense, but given the MBA's price advantage against the competition, this might be one of them).

Quite aware. I am eagerly awaiting the MBP update to see if it's added enough stuff to make up for the lack of a docking station. But the point is I *don't* find the MBA's feature set and price to be competitive. A Vaio TZ or Toshiba R500 is more portable, a Dell D430 (or even regular MB) is vastly more capable, only slightly larger and a lot cheaper.

It's just not a sane option for anyone after a *tool* rather than a *toy* (and, hey, if you have the kind of income to splash that sort of $$$$ on a toy, then don't be scared to live it up).

* Looks like someone agrees with me:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1196&tag=nl.e622
[/quote]

Indeed. The bloke nails it to a T. The MBA is for people with money to spare who are more interested in a fashion accessory than a practical tool.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with people drawing parallels between the MBA and The Cube. It will sell well to people who have money to burn, but not so well to the market at large.

(There's also the "never buy version x.0 of Apple hardware" rule of thumb to further make it unattractive to the experienced purchaser.)

Now, lest people get the wrong idea, I will certainly agree that the MBA is a beautiful piece of hardware. I just don't think it's suitable for anyone who needs a computer to do something apart from look good on a business class tray or overpriced cafe table.

Drannore

Jan 17, 2008, 04:24 PM

Apple really has not released a niche product in a while. If you discount the Mac Pro (which is not really that niche) then you are left with a lot of products that anyone would like. The problem is that the Macbook Air, by its very classification, is a niche product.

It all boils down to priorities: do you want a desktop-class notebook with all kinds of expandability and a reasonably small form factor? Then you get the Pro.

If you are an average consumer or a student who wants a nice, middle-class laptop that has enough of what you need, and is portable enough, then you should get a Macbook.

However, the Macbook Air is really about priorities. If you love power and expandability, then just ignore this--and every other--subnotebook. If you want a really light laptop that has a full screen and keyboard, and are willing to pay for portability, and love the way this awesome computer looks, then you are the market for the Air.

Also, if you want this thing, you will probably also want an N router. As for me, I have wireless, so ethernet is nothing. I love light laptops, and this one in particular. I also hate working with photos and such on trackpads, so the gestures are something that I would use constantly. And for soon-to-be university students like me, this would be ideal for hauling around. I love this laptop. I actually don't mind the trashing, so keep it up, but I would appreciate all of you not resorting to personal attacks.

rstansby

Jan 17, 2008, 04:25 PM

I can see arguments for and against the built in battery, but not being an Engineer, I'm curious if having a 'built-in' battery versus a user replaceable battery gives the consumer any real advantage (outside of designing a thinner device)?

Everybody has the right to their own opinion. Personally I have a strong preference for built in battery. I have never replaced a battery in a cell phone, but I have had a cell phone turn off because the battery accidently disconnected. A built-in battery prevents this. If I do choose to replace the battery there will be a cost regardless of whether I can do it myself. It might be inconvenient to send in the phone, but that inconvenience will be over after a couple days.

As far as laptops go, I have an iBook and after years of abuse the battery doesn't fit well. I would prefer a built in battery..

Finally there is an additional cost to making the battery removable. I would rather save that money when I buy the device, and then use that money to pay for the battery replacement in the unlikely event I need to do that.

Some folks use 2 batteries frequently, those folks are welcome to buy computers with easily removable batteries, it won't hurt my feelings.

rstansby

Jan 17, 2008, 04:31 PM

jragosta

Jan 17, 2008, 04:36 PM

I do travel a lot, and the weight reduction of 0.9kg is insignificant. *Especially* in the fact of a) how much functionality is lost to gain that weight; and b) other laptops which fit the "portability" requirement far better.

Then don't buy one. Lots of people like the MBA and don't see that any important functionality is lost.

If you can handle the functionality cut of the MBA, you can certainly handle the (relatively smaller) functionality cut of the Vaio TZ or Toshiba R500 and have a much more portable machine due to their smaller footprints.

ROTFLMAO. Less functionality loss with the TZ? It's got a dirt slow processor and a tiny screen. That is far, far greater functionality loss than the MBA's removal of features that I don't use when I'm traveling, anyway.

Difficult to see how. The MBA is a poor fit for typical corporate needs (if for no other reason than the lack of a docking station), with the possible exception of the "Executives' latest gadget" demographic. When most business employees get a laptop, they're expected to use it as their only machine. The MBA is a poor fit for this requirement.

Since when is a docking station a requirement? I use my laptop when I'm traveling and a desktop in the office. No need to dock the laptop. I don't have to transfer all that many files, but when I do, email or a USB stick does the job quite nicely.

Quite aware. I am eagerly awaiting the MBP update to see if it's added enough stuff to make up for the lack of a docking station. But the point is I *don't* find the MBA's feature set and price to be competitive. A Vaio TZ or Toshiba R500 is more portable, a Dell D430 (or even regular MB) is vastly more capable, only slightly larger and a lot cheaper.

That's pretty funny. The Vaio is $900 more, tiny screen, dirt slow processor (and Windows as an additional disadvantage). Sorry, but explain again why I should spend $900 more to get a smaller screen and slower processor just to retain a few features I don't use when I travel, anyway?

(There's also the "never buy version x.0 of Apple hardware" rule of thumb to further make it unattractive to the experienced purchaser.)

Strange 'rule'. When did they come out with that? And if that were true, why are Apple products consistently related as the most reliable in the industry across the board?

You are confusing functionality with performance. Not having Firewire is a functionality loss as there is no way to connect firewire devices. A smaller screen and a slower processor is a performance loss. Meaning you can still do the job, it just takes longer and/or is not as comfortable. Also while the TZ screen is smaller (11.1") it actually has a slight higher resolution...

Call it what you want. The TZ is way slower, smaller screen (at roughly the same resolution, that makes it harder to read), and so on - at $900 more. None of the 'missing' features in the MBA matter to me.

So call it functionality or performance or gobbledigook. Buying the TZ would be a foolish move for me.

azentropy

Jan 17, 2008, 04:57 PM

ROTFLMAO. Less functionality loss with the TZ? It's got a dirt slow processor and a tiny screen. That is far, far greater functionality loss than the MBA's removal of features that I don't use when I'm traveling, anyway.

You are confusing functionality with performance. Not having Firewire is a functionality loss as there is no way to connect firewire devices. A smaller screen and a slower processor is a performance loss. Meaning you can still do the job, it just takes longer and/or is not as comfortable. Also while the TZ screen is smaller (11.1") it actually has a slight higher resolution...

mojohanna

Jan 17, 2008, 05:18 PM

Pointless ... why have a ultra portable version thats not fully suitable to those on the road.

Those who aren't making a big deal about it don't travel for business :D

Thats a crap statement. I travel for business and travel extremely long distances (13-15+ hours on planes). I have an extra battery for my 17"PB, but I never really use it. Here is why. I have an airline power adapter and am able to power/charge the laptop without needing the battery. This also works in a car as a normal power inverter. And by the way, it was only $80.

The MBA is a perfect solution for me. I don't watch videos on my laptop, I watch them on my touch. I don't need an optical drive. I never use on the one on my current laptop (other than SW installs, but that has been covered). I need something that is much lighter and smaller than this 17"er that I lug around now.

I just don't think that I can justify the $1800 price point. I can get everything I need out of a base model MB and save $700. I sacrifice 2 pounds, thiness (not all that much) and gain some extra speed in the processor and the HD all with enough left over to pick up my D40X!!!

AidenShaw

Jan 17, 2008, 05:40 PM

Don't worry, Aiden Shaw always does that...

And, Mr. Lawyer always attempts to change the topic when he realizes that his argument is in trouble...

As in this case, replying to a discussion about style similarities between two laptop computers with a chart about operating systems....

AidenShaw

Jan 17, 2008, 05:48 PM

Thats a crap statement. I travel for business and travel extremely long distances (13-15+ hours on planes). I have an extra battery for my 17"PB, but I never really use it. Here is why. I have an airline power adapter and am able to power/charge the laptop without needing the battery.

I never have a problem in business class on trans-Pacific and trans-Atlantic flights either. There's always a power adaptor at the seat and in the airlines club lounge.

It's the flight to Chicago, or the all day conference in an auditiorium when I need the extra battery.

sorry about the adjacent posts, I wasn't counting

jragosta

Jan 17, 2008, 06:21 PM

I never have a problem in business class on trans-Pacific and trans-Atlantic flights either. There's always a power adaptor at the seat and in the airlines club lounge.

It's the flight to Chicago, or the all day conference in an auditiorium when I need the extra battery.

Why in the world would you need an extra battery to get from SF to Chicago? The MBA will easily get you that far.

drsmithy

Jan 17, 2008, 07:20 PM

Since when is a docking station a requirement?

For whenever someone doesn't want the hassles of having to do this:

I use my laptop when I'm traveling and a desktop in the office.

Having multiple computers is a massive PITA unless you have a trivially small amount of data to interact with, or said data is extremely static. You might be lucky enough to fall into that category, but a significant proportion of business customers do not. They want a single machine that they can use comfortably at their desks, then sweep into a briefcase without a second thought to take home or on a plane to continue working.

The only people in our entire organisation who have a laptops but not docking stations are the travelling salesmen who are in the office so infrequently they don't even have a desk (and most of them have one at home). Of the few people I've known who have spent a few weeks without a docking station, or have done the two machines thing, they've hated every minute of it - everything from having to plug in the monitor[/keyboard/mouse/network/printer/external drive/cardreader/etc] to turning up to the tenth client's site for the day and realising they forgot to copy a file off their other computer.

Considering a docking station a requirement for a business-targeted laptop is not at all unreasonable.

That's pretty funny. The Vaio is $900 more, tiny screen, dirt slow processor (and Windows as an additional disadvantage).

The Vaio TZ has a processor ~1.5x as fast and a screen <8% smaller than the 12" PB did when it came out in January 2005.

When Tiger came out in April, 2005, how well would you say a 3-month-old 12" PB ran it ? "Slow as dirt", perhaps ? Did the 12" PB have a "tiny screen", or was it big enough ?

Indeed, this comparison really does drive home what Apple *could* have done if they'd updated the 12" PB like people have been asking them to do for 2-3 years now, rather than building a flashy toy for people with too much money.

(It's also a near certainty the Vaio will be updated with a faster CPU in the near future as well - the same one that's gone into the MBA.)

Strange 'rule'. When did they come out with that? And if that were true, why are Apple products consistently related as the most reliable in the industry across the board?

New Apple hardware is renowned for having quirks and/or being replaced by something substantially more capable in fairly short order.

jragosta

Jan 17, 2008, 07:42 PM

Considering a docking station a requirement for a business-targeted laptop is not at all unreasonable.

Perhaps for you. Fortunately, the whole world isn't like you. As I've already explained, I don't have a docking station for my laptop - and see no reason why I'd want one. Nor do lots of other people.

You see, the MBA is not Apple's only laptop. If you want all the ports, you can get them.[/QUOTE]

The Vaio TZ has a processor ~1.5x as fast and a screen <8% smaller than the 12" PB did when it came out in January 2005.

It's also a lot faster than my Mac Plus.

If it ever becomes logical to buy a computer by comparing it to a 3 year old model, let me know. For now, the TZ you're bragging about has a smaller screen, a vastly slower processor and a $900 higher price tag than the MBA.

AidenShaw

Jan 17, 2008, 09:08 PM

Why in the world would you need an extra battery to get from SF to Chicago? The MBA will easily get you that far.

AA shows the flight from SFO to ORD as 4hr 15min.

Get through security an hour before, work in the lounge. Hope the flight isn't delayed.

Getting *awfully* close to that advertised 5 hour battery life... And if you load the system such that you don't get the 5 hours, you're SOL.

jragosta

Jan 17, 2008, 09:13 PM

AA shows the flight from SFO to ORD as 4hr 15min.

Get through security an hour before, work in the lounge. Hope the flight isn't delayed.

Getting *awfully* close to that advertised 5 hour battery life... And if you load the system such that you don't get the 5 hours, you're SOL.

Every airline lounge I've ever been in has a power outlet.

As for flight time, you can't use the computer for the full time. 4 hr 15 minutes is time from leaving the gate to getting to the gate. Actual computer usage time is AT LEAST half an hour less. Plus, American is one of the worst for padding their estimated flight times, so actual flight time will generally be less.

And if the flight's delayed, more often than not, you'll be in the lounge and not on the plane. In a very few rare cases, you'll be on the plane.

Fortunately for me, I get my work done ahead of time so I don't need to spend every single waking minute on the computer.

Oh, and on American, at least, most of the flights between SFO and ORD have power outlets - even in coach.

I'm still waiting for evidence to back up the claim that you're not going to get the 5 hours. Virtually every recent report says that Apple easily meets their estimated times.

AidenShaw

Jan 18, 2008, 12:13 AM

I'm still waiting for evidence to back up the claim that you're not going to get the 5 hours. Virtually every recent report says that Apple easily meets their estimated times.

Apple: (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html)

o 15-inch MacBook Pro
--- 60-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery (with integrated charge indicator LEDs) providing up to 6 hours of battery life

MacWorld: (http://www.macworld.com/article/58476/2007/06/macbookprorev.html)

The Santa Rosa chip set, as well as the switch to LED backlighting in the 15-inch models, boosts the MacBook Pros’ battery life.

In our testing, both the 15- and 17-inch models delivered an impressive 3 hours, approximately, of DVD playback. This represents a gain of 11 percent for the 15-inch models and 14 percent for the 17-inch model over the previous generations.

Surprisingly, we didn’t do as well—about 2.5 hours—in our wireless productivity test (writing in Microsoft Word while listening to streaming audio and checking e-mail via AirPort) on the 15-inch unit. Without the streaming audio, however, the batteries lasted just over 3 hours.

In my book, that's pretty good evidence that actually *using* the laptop means that your battery life will be far less than Apple claims. Simply running Word and checking email drops the runtime to half of Apple's claim.

As far as electrical outlets in airport lounges go, we must not go to the same class of airports. The ones I go to usually will have a couple of outlets scattered about, often with white plastic power bricks already plugged into them.

You did say "Every airline lounge I've ever been in has a power outlet" so I suppose that you're correct. One power outlet for the 200 people waiting for the plane, though, isn't very good odds.

And for power in the cabin, it depends on the airline and the plane. (American's 757s and 767s between SFO and ORD have power ports in every 3rd row from the wing to the back, the MD-83 has ports in 15 of 25 rows http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_Boeing_767-300_B.php)

Depending on getting power in the plane isn't much better than in the lounge. The spare battery in my bag is much better for odds.

Except you forget that the airline's math is flawed....

While on the plane you can't use it for the first 20 -30 minutes and last 20-30 minutes of the flight anyway. I also doubt that you would be spending every moment on the plane feverishly taxing you MBA to the max and running the battery low.

The only "math flaw" is believing 100% in Apple's claims about battery life regardless of the use of the system.

The MacWorld test shows the MBP getting 50% of Apple's claim when under light use (Office Word and email, not "feverish use").

50% of the Apple's MBA claim is 2.5 hours. Take your 30 minutes front and back off the 4 1/4 hour plane flight, and that's a potential 3 1/4 hrs on the plane. Use it for 30 minutes at the gate, and that's an easy 3 3/4 hours with a machine with a probable 2 1/2 hour battery using Office to work on my presentations, sort email, maybe do some coding and testing.

My math comes up with two alternatives:

Buy a First Class ticket, where most planes have power ports.
Buy a laptop that lets me swap in a spare battery over Nebraska.

Unfortunately, my company's travel guidelines make #2 the only possibility. Although, even if I could fly First Class all the time I'd still want a battery that I could swap. The SFO->ORD flight isn't the only time I'd want a laptop to go longer than 2 1/2 hours.

While working in the lounge, you can easily plug in, same thing holds true if you are going to be delayed.

Where do you people find these airports that have a power outlet by every seat in the gate waiting area?

'nuf said on this topic - if you don't believe in this use case for a replaceable battery yet, your mind won't change no matter what arguments are made.

drsmithy

Jan 18, 2008, 12:14 AM

Perhaps for you. Fortunately, the whole world isn't like you.

That's a pretty hilarious comment coming from someone whose sole criteria for whether or not the MBA is targeted at corporate clients appears to be "I like it".

As I've already explained, I don't have a docking station for my laptop - and see no reason why I'd want one. Nor do lots of other people.

And since I've clearly been too subtle, I'll spell it out. A very large proportion of corporate customers consider a docking station to be a major part of a business laptop's featureset.

You see, the MBA is not Apple's only laptop. If you want all the ports, you can get them.

Which is true (and uncontested), but utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

It's also a lot faster than my Mac Plus.

Ooh, a non-sequitur. How surprising.

If it ever becomes logical to buy a computer by comparing it to a 3 year old model, let me know.

Sure. That time is right now when the only appropriately comparable Apple laptop is 3 years old.

For now, the TZ you're bragging about has a smaller screen, a vastly slower processor and a $900 higher price tag than the MBA.

It also has a noticably smaller footprint and substantially greater feature set.

digitalbiker

Jan 18, 2008, 02:19 AM

I think everyone on this forum agrees that the MBA only targets a certain niche.

The argument stems from differing opinions on the size of that niche.

I would not even consider the MBA because it doesn't meet my needs and as such I belong to the camp that thinks the MBA niche will be too small to be worth continuing for Apple and Intel.

I think Apple would have been much better served by introducing a mini tower to fill the gap from mini to mac pro. (I know that they have the iMac but there is a large group of consumers that don't want to be tied to an all-in-one).

The other niche that would be larger is the gaming market. Apple is missing out big by not having a mac specifically for the gamer.

mojohanna

Jan 18, 2008, 02:33 AM

AA shows the flight from SFO to ORD as 4hr 15min.

Get through security an hour before, work in the lounge. Hope the flight isn't delayed.

Getting *awfully* close to that advertised 5 hour battery life... And if you load the system such that you don't get the 5 hours, you're SOL.

Except you forget that the airline's math is flawed. They pad these numbers by at least 30 min or more so that they can meet their fabled "on time" performance.
Additionally, you are not using your computer while in the security line and I hope that it is not on. While working in the lounge, you can easily plug in, same thing holds true if you are going to be delayed.

While on the plane you can't use it for the first 20 -30 minutes and last 20-30 minutes of the flight anyway. I also doubt that you would be spending every moment on the plane feverishly taxing you MBA to the max and running the battery low.

The only problems you might encounter is a cross country flight from coast to coast. I would agree that you probably would come close to running the battery dry, but only close.

Attonine

Jan 18, 2008, 03:32 AM

I wonder whether the airlines themselves will have anything to say about the built in battery, given the unease they had after the "exploding" batteries a while ago.

John Jacob

Jan 18, 2008, 09:50 AM

My first reaction to the MacBook Air was that it was damn cool . . . but it wasn't for me.

I was looking for the perfect 12" G4 PBOOK killer. MBAir ain't that.

Actually, when it comes down to it, every laptop is a compromise of some sort. I guess I fall into the smallest niche of Apple's market:

I use my portable as a portable when I am traveling, and I use it as a workhorse when I'm at home.

Am I the only one who does this? Maybe I am. I don't give a **** if I can edit video or play sweet games or run the hottest warez when I am out. I just need a network appliance. I need to be able to get from one stupid meeting to another with my meeting stuff.

When I am at home and I want to do stuff, I really want a desktop, not a laptop.

So here's the deal. I'm not some cheap-ass student anymore. I have a job, and it's pretty spiffy. So why compromise?

I just ordered a maxed-out Mac Pro with dual displays, and a maxed out SSD MacBook Air.

No compromises. The best of portable when I want it; best at the desk when I need it.

You're not the only one. I do the same. But since I really can't afford two maxed-out computers, I'll probably buy one MBP 15" only. I'd love to have an iMac 24" and a maxed out MBA, but I just can't afford both of them.

AidenShaw

Jan 18, 2008, 10:32 AM

As I've already explained, I don't have a docking station for my laptop - and see no reason why I'd want one. Nor do lots of other people.

And since I've clearly been too subtle, I'll spell it out. A very large proportion of corporate customers consider a docking station to be a major part of a business laptop's featureset.

Our company standard order bundle is a ThinkPad with *two* docking stations, one for the office and one for the employee's home. (Each with a power brick, and a third auto/air/AC universal brick for the briefcase.) For the "thin and light" systems, the docking station is a media base that contains the slot for the DVD drive and additional ports.

It's not just convenience, it's much less wear-and-tear on the laptop and components to click in and out of the dock a couple of times a day. We don't have to deal with loose ports, frayed power connectors, broken latches on Ethernet cables and other problems that the constant in-out in-out can cause.

We even have fewer "tripped over the cable" damage incidents, because the cables to the dock are more likely to be routed where they are safe.

killerwhack

Jan 18, 2008, 10:36 AM

Why should we pay more?

Uk isnt looking to good since the government decided to bail out Northern Rock, £2000 per person it has cost the UK...

How about because the EU is socking it to M$ in regulatory actions and fines. So M$ has to recoup those funds from someplace. If you got your goverment to call off the dogs, I bet the price would settle down!

DavoMrMac

Jan 18, 2008, 01:33 PM

BRLawyer

Jan 18, 2008, 02:06 PM

And, Mr. Lawyer always attempts to change the topic when he realizes that his argument is in trouble...

As in this case, replying to a discussion about style similarities between two laptop computers with a chart about operating systems....

Arguments in trouble? Show me again, then, I couldn't see them... :rolleyes:

I was just referring to your use of an underpowered Windows PC as a flawed basis for comparison...something you were not able to reply to. Besides, Macworld chose the MBA as a "best of show" product...is this negative?

Or you could perhaps refer to that old and decades-old 486 laptop as the "thinnest" one, in order to bash Apple again... :rolleyes:

BRLawyer

Jan 18, 2008, 02:12 PM

I think the MB Air is aimed squarely at two groups. Current desktop owners wanting a very light laptop and mobile professionals, needing that ultra portable machine.

Things missing;
Matte Option
User changeable hard drives

Overall a very good machine though.

Exactly. The people targeted for the MBA do not need a full-blown notebook when a desktop takes care of heavier storage tasks. I am gonna get one because it's awesomely faster than my old iBook and light as a feather, that's all.

Lots of executives I've talked to are gonna do the same, as they care about weight, a good set of features and the elimination of features that nobody uses anymore. Example? Just the meetings I've been to in LA...

SIX notebooks on the table and NONE using Ethernet; NONE using Firewire; NO NEED whatsoever for optical drives; it's all about presentations and wireless features...this is the floppy-less iMac revisited...Apple shows the way in terms of technology trends and others will surely follow.

DavoMrMac

Jan 18, 2008, 03:40 PM

Thinking about how I use my MacBook Pro.

1. Bought it.
2. Initial set-up, re-installing OS.
3. Installing apps.
4. From that day on, everything wireless... not a single DVD has been put in in.
5. It has been left on a couple of trips due to size/weight.

AidenShaw

Jan 18, 2008, 03:59 PM

Arguments in trouble? Show me again, then, I couldn't see them... :rolleyes:

I was just referring to your use of an underpowered Windows PC as a flawed basis for comparison...

If you look at my post again (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4779408&postcount=280), notice that I was talking about the styling of the MacBook Cube Air, and how it was similar to the thin, tapered aluminum Dell Latitude X1.

I said:
"the MBA looks like a nice update to the Dell Latitude X1"
"Ive is now copying old Dell designs"
"it could easily be mistaken for an updated X1"

Note that I even called it an "old Dell".

What is the difference if it is "under-powered" compared to an Apple that's 3 years newer? The comment on the table was that there were design similarities between the two. Did I say that the X1 was better? (I mentioned a smaller footprint, lighter, and more ports, and also that it was thicker - but not more powerful)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/130/348888229_0a6feb7cde.jpg?v=0
http://www.tomshw.it/guides/hardware/mobile/20050616/images/dell_latitude_x1-05.jpg

Besides, Macworld chose the MBA as a "best of show" product...is this negative?

It could only be negative by omission - had it not received the award.

Is it surprising that the only computer introduced by Apple at the Apple controlled MacWorld got a "best of show" award?

Or you could perhaps refer to that old and decades-old 486 laptop as the "thinnest" one, in order to bash Apple again... :rolleyes:

No need to, Dell's new system is coming... http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/14/leaked-dell-laptop-brings-the-sexy/

ImAlwaysRight

Jan 18, 2008, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by AidenShaw

Originally Posted by BRLawyer

/popcorn empty

Bring back the good ol days! I still remember you two going at it during the PPC->Intel transition.

AidenShaw

Jan 18, 2008, 09:07 PM

Bring back the good ol days! I still remember you two going at it during the PPC->Intel transition.

Yes, Mr. Lawyer thinks that all I do is pick on Jobs and Apple, and can't see anything good.

It's not true, though - didn't I just say that the MacBook Cube Air was a nice copy of the Dell Latitude X1? Surely that's a complement to Ive's team....

iSee

Jan 18, 2008, 09:26 PM

Yes, Mr. Lawyer thinks that all I do is pick on Jobs and Apple, and can't see anything good.

It's not true, though - didn't I just say that the MacBook Cube Air was a nice copy of the Dell Latitude X1? Surely that's a complement to Ive's team....

You must be blinded by your feelings for BRLawyer because it doesn't look like an X1.

techlover828

Jan 18, 2008, 09:34 PM

haha, just saw this vid and thought I'd post it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ERgZ9dztk

sorry if it's already been posted

AidenShaw

Jan 18, 2008, 10:05 PM

You must be blinded by your feelings for BRLawyer because it doesn't look like an X1.

I'm sure that BR would be touched to know that I have such feelings for him ;) ...

You probably haven't seen both the Cube Air and the X1 in real life, then.

As I said, the MacBook Cube Air is a nice *update* to the style of the X1.

They're similar in that they're both a matte silvery metallic finish (aluminum in the MacBook case, the Dell is magnesium), with a circular logo in the center, and edges that taper into a thinner meeting point with the base.

The differences are that the Dell's visible hinges turn into hidden hinges on the MacBook Cube Air, and the line along the front of the X1's lid is gone from the Cube Air. They're also different in that the X1 is much smaller in footprint, and the Cube Air is thinner.

In other words, the Cube Air is a nice update to the X1 design.

If you've lived and worked with an X1 for a few years, and then see and handle the Cube Air at MacWorld - there's a striking similarity.

If you compare a couple of low resolution photographs on a web page - you might not realize how similar they really are.

AidenShaw

Jan 18, 2008, 10:26 PM

haha, just saw this vid and thought I'd post it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ERgZ9dztk

sorry if it's already been posted

Very funny.

And, by the way, did you know that the Dell Latitude X1 also easily fits inside a manila envelope - even with the larger extended lifetime battery?

Apple has caught up with what Dell was able to do 3 years ago....

ps: and before you think "OMG that X1 is tiny" - those are 45cm floor tiles, not the more common 30cm ;)

deathshrub

Jan 18, 2008, 11:32 PM

If you love the X1 so much, why don't you go buy one. And why stop at one? Buy a couple of them.

Enjoy your vista.

AidenShaw

Jan 19, 2008, 12:23 AM

If you love the X1 so much, why don't you go buy one.

You should realize that the three photos in the previous post were in fact taken minutes before, of the X1 that I bought three years ago....

I've had a manila-envelope-fitting laptop for a few years - one with many ports, a dock, and replaceable battery.

That's why I'm do disappointed in the MacBook Cube Air - three years later, and so little progress. Yet the fanbois have wet spots in their crotches, singing the praises of Jobs and Ive. So sad.

digitalbiker

Jan 19, 2008, 02:32 AM

That's why I'm do disappointed in the MacBook Cube Air - three years later, and so little progress. Yet the fanbois have wet spots in their crotches, singing the praises of Jobs and Ive. So sad.

I have to say that I agree with you Aiden. For the life of me I don't see what is so ground breaking about the MacBook Air.

Apple pulls out the optical drive, eliminates the ports, persuades intel to redesign the core 2 duo card for them, pops in a slow and small ipod drive, and it is an amazing technological marvel! Go figure.

I usually love Apple products but the MacBook Air is destine to be a flop!

NAG

Jan 19, 2008, 03:13 AM

I have to say that I agree with you Aiden. For the life of me I don't see what is so ground breaking about the MacBook Air.

Apple pulls out the optical drive, eliminates the ports, persuades intel to redesign the core 2 duo card for them, pops in a slow and small ipod drive, and it is an amazing technological marvel! Go figure.

I usually love Apple products but the MacBook Air is destine to be a flop!

Yeah, I mean an all in one that pulls out the floppy drive, eliminates the ports, has a new ppc in it, and it is an amazing technological marvel! Go figure.

I usually love Apple products but the iMac is destine to be a flop!

I have to say that I agree with you Aiden. For the life of me I don't see what is so ground breaking about the MacBook Air.

Apple pulls out the optical drive, eliminates the ports, persuades intel to redesign the core 2 duo card for them, pops in a slow and small ipod drive, and it is an amazing technological marvel! Go figure.

I usually love Apple products but the MacBook Air is destine to be a flop!

Yeah, I mean another MP3 player with a hard disk, an integrated battery, a fancy scroll wheel, and it is an amazing technological marvel! Go figure.

I usually love Apple products but the iPod is destine to be a flop!

I have to say that I agree with you Aiden. For the life of me I don't see what is so ground breaking about the MacBook Air.

Apple pulls out the optical drive, eliminates the ports, persuades intel to redesign the core 2 duo card for them, pops in a slow and small ipod drive, and it is an amazing technological marvel! Go figure.

I usually love Apple products but the MacBook Air is destine to be a flop!

Yeah, I mean a phone without 3G, an integrated battery, locked into AT&T, and it is an amazing technological marvel! Go figure.

I usually love Apple products but the iPhone is destine to be a flop!

Macmanus

Jan 19, 2008, 08:55 AM

Hey, to you people who already ordered it :

remember the iPhone price drop ?

Oops, feels like old Jobs is going to do it again with MBA.

:eek:

tronnolon2

Jan 19, 2008, 09:05 AM

:confused:

How much longer before we have full-size multitouch laptop screens? The tech is already there (see FingerWorks, also Jeff Han's parallel work from a different approach), and for the premium already laid out for this laptop it would appeal to the same market segment and even more. This was what many were hoping for this MacWorld, and is what I'm personally waiting for, given the inevitable flexibility garnered for professional photo editing and music production. Hopefully the next MacBook Pro revision or next-gen Cinema Displays? Any ideas/input on ETA for this?

Also, why the thick bezel around the screen? This OLED laptop (http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/02/lg-debuts-ebook-concept-laptop-with-oled-screen-liquid-fuel/) debuted by LG last year has no bezel at all – which makes the form factor and aesthetics all that more attractive. With LED the bezel becomes a redundant artifact.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/12/lg_e_book2.jpg

drsmithy

Jan 19, 2008, 09:39 AM

I think the MB Air is aimed squarely at two groups. Current desktop owners wanting a very light laptop and mobile professionals, needing that ultra portable machine.

As people have been trying to point out, the MBA isn't really an "ultra portable machine". It's too big. Really, it's barely any more portable than a regular MB.

neversink

Jan 19, 2008, 10:36 AM

Bottom line, when your battery dies and you can't replace it with another, then you can't work if you are without AC power. And this will frustrate many, many users.

Removable batteries are important. There is no defense to having a soldered battery that can't be changed with back up batteries when they charge down and only Apple can replace when they no longer can hold a charge. It makes NO sense, except to Apple's pocketbooks.

I have a MBP and I carry two extra batteries where ever I travel, particularly where there is no outlet or outlets are few, and the few that are there at airline terminals are already being used....

I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for this. A battery compartment that would have weighed on ounce could have easily been incorporated. it is sad to me that innovation, which Apple is famous for, could not match the Toshiba lightweight machine.

I will stick with my MBP, even though a lighter machine is much more desirable for me. Hopefully, apple will eventually see the light and make some changes to this very "cool" product that is missing so many esentials....

Machaelangelo

Jan 19, 2008, 11:56 AM

Exactly. The people targeted for the MBA do not need a full-blown notebook when a desktop takes care of heavier storage tasks. I am gonna get one because it's awesomely faster than my old iBook and light as a feather, that's all.

Lots of executives I've talked to are gonna do the same, as they care about weight, a good set of features and the elimination of features that nobody uses anymore. Example? Just the meetings I've been to in LA...

SIX notebooks on the table and NONE using Ethernet; NONE using Firewire; NO NEED whatsoever for optical drives; it's all about presentations and wireless features...this is the floppy-less iMac revisited...Apple shows the way in terms of technology trends and others will surely follow.
After purchasing several high end ultra portables and paying for features that have never been used the MBA is a welcome machine. I have not used an ethernet cable in two years. There has never been a disc loaded in my vaio or MBP. My company uses both PIM and CRM applications that are web based. My accounting program is a web based application. This machine fits well for us. NO COMPLAINTS HERE.

NAG

Jan 19, 2008, 12:34 PM

Bottom line, when your battery dies and you can't replace it with another, then you can't work if you are without AC power. And this will frustrate many, many users.

Exactly! This is why the iphone will fail!

totoro

Jan 19, 2008, 12:52 PM

The Macbook Air is the iPod of apple's line. Yes before the ipod if we wanted to carry around all of our music we would have to have to lug around at very least in 2001 a five pound 60gig external hardrive that you could plug into your laptop an listen to through headphones. That was really the only solution.
So Apple introduced the fist gen iPod, and if you search for that thread on MR you would see that the comments are almost exactly the same. The iPod couldn;t play video, there were no games, and it only used firewire. But it was a good solution to carry around a reasonable amount of your music collection.
The air is NOT meant to be the only computer you have, eg: the shared op drive. It is meant for people who need to work on word, transfer digital pic and browse the internet. And you know what, it is JUST like the forst iMac, remember the i meant INTERNET. It was a simple thing meant for simple basic tasks!
I know that very few people ever use the full capabilty of the MBP when used as a secondary computer. Which it is most of the time!. They only really type check email, do reports, and use for itunes. The only reason that peopl buy it is because it says it is for pros. There is almost no real difference between the processor of the base MBP and the MB, except one is bigger and one has a glossy screen.
Also for you guys with the 12in the lowest macbook blows it away! The graphics are fast enough and the c2d blows away every powerpc except the quad core G5.

AidenShaw

Jan 19, 2008, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by neversink
Bottom line, when your battery dies and you can't replace it with another, then you can't work if you are without AC power. And this will frustrate many, many users.

Exactly! This is why the iphone will fail!

There are two pretty big differences:
The Iphone battery easily lasts for a full day of normal use - the period of time that one would expect to be away from a charging station. I would bet that many Iphone users don't bother to bring the charger on short multi-day trips unless they plan to watch videos....
If you have your laptop with you, the Iphone can be recharged at any time through the USB port, even if normal AC power is not available.

In contrast, the MBCA does not have enough runtime for many commonly expected uses, and there's no recourse if you can't get AC power (short of bringing a big heavy battery and an AC invertor along).

digitalbiker

Jan 19, 2008, 05:49 PM

Yeah, I mean an all in one that pulls out the floppy drive, eliminates the ports, has a new ppc in it, and it is an amazing technological marvel! Go figure.

I usually love Apple products but the iMac is destine to be a flop!

Yeah, I mean another MP3 player with a hard disk, an integrated battery, a fancy scroll wheel, and it is an amazing technological marvel! Go figure.

I usually love Apple products but the iPod is destine to be a flop!

Yeah, I mean a phone without 3G, an integrated battery, locked into AT&T, and it is an amazing technological marvel! Go figure.

I usually love Apple products but the iPhone is destine to be a flop!

Hey if you like to write other people's posts for them then have fun but I don't think that any of your altered posts are analogous to my original.

I also never thought the imac, ipod, or iphone were destine for failure. They all had merit and appealed to a large market.

The only recent items I thought would fail were The Cube (pretty but too expensive for the market), Apple TV gen. 1 (interesting but too low res, needed a computer, and not enough content) and now I think the MBA will fail.

It just doesn't meet the needs of a large enough niche and it is most certainly not a technical marvel.
1) It is not small enough to be considered ultra-portable (footprint too large)
2) The batteries aren't user-friendly swappable with a pre-charged set.
3) No WWAN support.
4) Too expensive and performance limited for the average college student. (ie HDD too small & too slow, slow graphics and CPU compared to similar priced MBP)

The only market it fits are the
1) Paris Hilton's of the world
2) The fashion conscious exec who doesn't really work on a laptop but would like to have something at his side that he could use to read email and that wouldn't over tax his dainty biceps.

The MBA will sell well it's first quarter of release and then wither and die.

appletastic

Jan 19, 2008, 06:07 PM

4) Too expensive and performance limited for the average college student.

The MacBook Air is not aimed at students - I thought that was the MacBook.?

Each Apple product is aimed at different markets.. I am pretty sure that Apple know a hell of a lot more about Market Segmentation than anyone on this forum... They're bloody good at it!... just look at their bank balance!

digitalbiker

Jan 19, 2008, 06:29 PM

The MacBook Air is not aimed at students - I thought that was the MacBook.?

That's the point, what market are they aiming at?

The poweruser? No
The student? No
The working business man? No.
The commuter? No.
The rich computer illiterate exec? Yes
The fashion conscious elite? Yes

Just how big are those markets? Big enough to create a first wave splash but not big enough to sustain a profitable longterm product.

appletastic

Jan 19, 2008, 06:38 PM

That's the point, what market are they aiming at?

The poweruser? No
The student? No
The working business man? No.
The commuter? No.
The rich computer illiterate exec? Yes
The fashion conscious elite? Yes

Just how big are those markets? Big enough to create a first wave splash but not big enough to sustain a profitable longterm product.

They are expanding their market so it doesn't matter. Your list above just proves my point:

The poweruser? - MacBook pro
The student? - MacBook
The working business man? MacBook Pro
The commuter? - MacBook/iPhone
The rich computer illiterate exec? Macbook Air
The fashion conscious elite? Macbook Air

Now they have all your example markets covered, not just 65% of them..

See my point?

digitalbiker

Jan 19, 2008, 07:10 PM

They are expanding their market so it doesn't matter. Your list above just proves my point:

The poweruser? - MacBook pro
The student? - MacBook
The working business man? MacBook Pro
The commuter? - MacBook/iPhone
The rich computer illiterate exec? Macbook Air
The fashion conscious elite? Macbook Air

Now they have all your example markets covered, not just 65% of them..

See my point?

Yes, I see your point and I agree that the Macbook Air is a different machine than the rest. My point is that I don't think that market niche is significant enough to justify this machine.

I think the Macbook Air is an interesting prototype of possible things to come but the hardware isn't quite there yet.

If large SSD drives were available at a reasonable cost so that the Macbook Air could load up with software, media, and data then it might be more feasible.

Also if a folding CPU, keyboard unit, and multi-touch pad could be placed in a check book sized device with a large bandwidth BT video display device built into eye glasses. This would be the killer ultra-portable for execs.

Apple is missing two huge markets right now. The video gamer ( a multi-trillion dollar industry) and the mini tower mac market, between the mini and the mac pro. The imac is really a different animal altogether.

tomacintosh

Jan 19, 2008, 07:28 PM

LizKat

Jan 19, 2008, 08:21 PM

/snip snip snip/
The only market it fits are the
1) Paris Hilton's of the world
2) The fashion conscious exec who doesn't really work on a laptop but would like to have something at his side that he could use to read email and that wouldn't over tax his dainty biceps.

The MBA will sell well it's first quarter of release and then wither and die.

I daresay you are mistaken about the market for MacBook Air, even based solely on my own decision to purchase the thing.

1) No one would confuse me with Ms. Hilton.

2) There's no one around to notice whether I'm fashion conscious or not since my studio is at home and in a rural area populated largely by farmers, their livestock, creeks, hills, trees. Plus birds and animals who share the habitat. The only fashion of ours that the wild critters may try to keep up with is whether that's a walking stick in our hands or a long gun. Everyone else pretty much minds his own business.

Now, I am not alone in the market for MacBook Air, as is abundantly clear from representative messages already posted in the MacRumor forums.

And, one can "really work on a laptop" in many ways that will not tax the specs of the MacBook Air. It's possible, and still quite common, to get paid for the results of fairly arduous intellectual activity requiring a computer for nothing more taxing than text processing.

So, I conclude that your dire prediction for the MacBook Air is flawed :D

zapp

Jan 19, 2008, 08:33 PM

It's possible, and still quite common, to get paid for the results of fairly arduous intellectual activity requiring a computer for nothing more taxing than text processing.

So, I conclude that your dire prediction for the MacBook Air is flawed :D

Well said

aswitcher

Jan 19, 2008, 08:40 PM

John Jacob

Jan 19, 2008, 10:35 PM

As people have been trying to point out, the MBA isn't really an "ultra portable machine". It's too big. Really, it's barely any more portable than a regular MB.

Maybe for you. For many people, the important thing when it comes to portability is the weight. For the same weight, the bigger the screen and keyboard, the better - as it makes the machine more useable. Part of the issue is that the term ultraportable means different things to different people.

My only complaints with the MBA are:
1. No ethernet port.
2. Only one USB port.
3. Too much space around the screen (they could easily have fitted a 14" widescreen in there).
4. Only mono speakers.

I'm sure all of these will be fixed in the rev B.

AidenShaw

Jan 19, 2008, 11:06 PM

3. Too much space around the screen (they could easily have fitted a 14" widescreen in there).

For others, footprint is also an important issue.

These people would accept a thicker laptop that fit into the foot print of an A or A4 sheet of paper.

With a narrow bezel, even the 13" screen could have done that. With the wide bezel that Apple is using, the MacBook Cube Air needs a laptop bag rather than a smaller briefcase.

digitalbiker

Jan 19, 2008, 11:21 PM

I daresay you are mistaken about the market for MacBook Air, even based solely on my own decision to purchase the thing.

1) No one would confuse me with Ms. Hilton.

2) There's no one around to notice whether I'm fashion conscious or not since my studio is at home and in a rural area populated largely by farmers, their livestock, creeks, hills, trees. Plus birds and animals who share the habitat. The only fashion of ours that the wild critters may try to keep up with is whether that's a walking stick in our hands or a long gun. Everyone else pretty much minds his own business.

Now, I am not alone in the market for MacBook Air, as is abundantly clear from representative messages already posted in the MacRumor forums.

And, one can "really work on a laptop" in many ways that will not tax the specs of the MacBook Air. It's possible, and still quite common, to get paid for the results of fairly arduous intellectual activity requiring a computer for nothing more taxing than text processing.

So, I conclude that your dire prediction for the MacBook Air is flawed :D

Look, I'm glad that you bought a MBA. I hope it works out well and turns out to be a great little machine. However, I still don't think it appeals to a very big market niche.

It just has too limited appeal as specified right now. Maybe a rev or 2 later, when high-speed high density SSD costs come way down, the battery compartment is made easily accessible, Apple shrinks the footprint a little, and WWAN is added then I think it will capture a much larger market.

drsmithy

Jan 20, 2008, 06:14 AM

Apple is missing two huge markets right now. The video gamer ( a multi-trillion dollar industry) and the mini tower mac market, between the mini and the mac pro. The imac is really a different animal altogether.

IMHO, a machine between the Mini and Mac Pro would also (easily) encompass the gamers market (as long as the video card was replacable). Such a machine would need to be, essentially, half a Mac Pro. Single CPU - either dual or quad-core - 8GB RAM max (4 slots), at least one (ideally two) x16 PCIe slots, room for 2 hard disks and a single optical drive. It should retail for a bit less than the different iMacs do.

Unfortunately Apple are unlikely to make it any time soon for the same reason I'm sure they haven't yet - such a box (if reasonably priced) would absolutely slaughter Mac Pro sales. I'm pretty sure most Mac Pro customers are buying one because they need more than an iMac, not because they need all of a Mac Pro.

The other gaping hole in Apple's lineup, IMHO, is a solid business-oriented laptop. All this would really need to be is a regular 15" MBP with a Docking Station (and ideally a 13" variant as well).

(Something else that would truly be cool and innovative, would be for Apple to update the MBP to be able to support *two* external monitors. Either via a dongle arrangement, or just two DVI ports built in. I'm well and truly off into fantasy territory here, however - although I must admit I'm amazed _someone_ hasn't done this yet.)

Both of these machines - a midrange desktop and a business laptop - would appeal to non-trivial chunks of the market, IMHO - certainly much larger than the MBA ever will.

aswitcher

Jan 20, 2008, 06:22 AM

The other gaping hole in Apple's lineup, IMHO, is a solid business-oriented laptop. All this would really need to be is a regular 15" MBP with a Docking Station (and ideally a 13" variant as well).

(Something else that would truly be cool and innovative, would be for Apple to update the MBP to be able to support *two* external monitors. Either via a dongle arrangement, or just two DVI ports built in. I'm well and truly off into fantasy territory here, however - although I must admit I'm amazed _someone_ hasn't done this yet.)

I would love two external screens for my MBP. I am thinking of getting one of those widgets when they are Mac compatible to give be a USB - DVI for a 19" 1280x1024 screen just to keep my email open on.

If Apple could slip an HDMI next to their dual-dvi then I guess that would work nicely and give better resolution. It would really set them out in the market.

I wonder if there is soemthing affordable that could split my dual-dvi to two 24" screens now...

jragosta

Jan 20, 2008, 05:31 PM

One thing I don't understand about the MBA is why does the bezel around the screen have to be so large? Take that away and the footprint becomes small enough to fully justify the thinness, as it is it's just a thin MB, it could've been so much more (or less in this case)

My guess is that if they made the computer the same size as the screen (eliminating most of the bezel), there wouldn't be enough area to cram everything inside.

AidenShaw

Jan 20, 2008, 08:24 PM

My guess is that if they made the computer the same size as the screen (eliminating most of the bezel), there wouldn't be enough area to cram everything inside.

My guess is that the taper towards the edges that is there for the optical illusion of thinness didn't leave room for anything inside the thin edges - it could have been much smaller (footprint wise) but due to "style" Apple had to make it much larger than it really needed to be.

It easily could have been a much more usable laptop - but when the top level design goal is "I want to go on stage in my jeans and turtleneck and say 'world's thinnest laptop'" a whole bunch of things useful to the eventual user of the system have to be ignored.

phoxrenvatio

Jan 20, 2008, 10:52 PM

I personally love the new MacBook Air but i notice there is no front row?Why the sensor can be locate on the upper par where isight is;but Why doesn't it have it then waiting for answer.or probabilities.

it's a very thin sensor, but yes it does have a sensor, not it does not come WITH the remote, but it does have front row.

BWhaler

Jan 21, 2008, 06:52 AM

I agree.

I was in for 1, maybe two of these until I heard about the non-replaceable battery.

I don't think it will "kill" sales outright, but these was definitely a loss of orders.

The bottom of the Air is beautiful. I get it.

But business travelers need more than 5 hours when they are on the road. Heck, parents need more than 5 hours when playing videos for the kids.

This was a big miss by Apple.

Shows what I know.

I just spent $3,100 on a loaded MacBook Air.

jragosta

Jan 21, 2008, 10:33 PM

My guess is that the taper towards the edges that is there for the optical illusion of thinness didn't leave room for anything inside the thin edges - it could have been much smaller (footprint wise) but due to "style" Apple had to make it much larger than it really needed to be.

It easily could have been a much more usable laptop - but when the top level design goal is "I want to go on stage in my jeans and turtleneck and say 'world's thinnest laptop'" a whole bunch of things useful to the eventual user of the system have to be ignored.

Or maybe Apple is selling to people who aren't as opposed to quality products as you obviously are. You don't even use Macs - why do you spend so much time bashing them?

No product is perfect for everyone. Apple made some design decisions that appear to satisfy a lot of people. Most of the bashers appear to be people like you - who would never own a Mac, anyway or who aren't in the target audience.

Yankees 4 Life

Jan 22, 2008, 04:23 PM

i can't believe that thing is sooo thin. If i had a need, i'd buy one!

bearwise

Jan 23, 2008, 07:32 AM

Another possibility for the bezel/screen size/edge issue may be strenght/robustness. I've already gone through on Sony TX by snapping the very thin screen in two. The bezel and moving the edge of the screen away from the edge of of the lid may both add mechanical strength to what is essentially wide, long and relatively very thin.

bearwise

Jan 23, 2008, 07:59 AM

sunfast

Jan 29, 2008, 06:45 AM

Very funny.

And, by the way, did you know that the Dell Latitude X1 also easily fits inside a manila envelope - even with the larger extended lifetime battery?

Apple has caught up with what Dell was able to do 3 years ago....

ps: and before you think "OMG that X1 is tiny" - those are 45cm floor tiles, not the more common 30cm ;)

The pictures apple didn't want you to see! Thanks for putting a bit of reality back into the overexcitement :)

akm3

Jan 29, 2008, 11:21 AM

Apple is missing two huge markets right now. The video gamer ( a multi-trillion dollar industry) and the mini tower mac market, between the mini and the mac pro. The imac is really a different animal altogether.

The PC video-gamer market is a declining market. No sense for Apple to go into a market that is declining. There is no place for it there.
Second, Apple's business model will never satisfy the PC Gamer market anyway, because they are always constantly demanding upgrades, the newest/latest/greatest hardware. Apple doesn't do constant upgrades and certainly is never on the bleeding edge of hardware (Specifically graphics cards, a major requirement for the PC Gamer).

Basically, if Apple tried for this market, they would get their butts whooped by the PC makers and their tiny margins, so they don't even try.

The xBox 360, Wii, and PS3 are the future of gaming. The PC is a relic for gaming. This makes me sad, but it is true. Add to the fact that so much of the game software gets stolen in the PC world, and you wonder why anyone releases PC games at all.

-Allen

akm3

Jan 29, 2008, 11:25 AM

3. Too much space around the screen (they could easily have fitted a 14" widescreen in there).

I don't think anyone supplies 14" LED Widescreens.

There are supplier parts realities Apple is constrained by. It can't go with a custom solution for everything ala the Intel repackaging and expect to keep prices reasonable. They aren't walmart.

-Allen

PointCube

Jan 29, 2008, 08:42 PM

X1 or not, have you owned a dell? how long does your battery last ? 20 minutes? have you run vista lately? apple is pretty much more about the experience you have with your computer and the wow effect. Your "equipment" says a lot about you, kinda like your car. If you drive a pento, hmm..

Granted the Macbook Air looks a lot like a macbook in an aluminium shell, it still has OSX on it and a great design. Everyone's buying Macbooks and Macbook pros for a reason. why drive a hyundai when you can drive a benz?

if you love windows vista so much, what are you doing on macrumors?
go get a virus or something :)

APPLE already assured to everyone that the battery is easily replaceable. Apple does its job on market research and they know who buys what. They have that down to an art. So why not dazzle us with products that are smart?

Be unique and get a macbook, or a macbook pro or a macbook air.