iTunes Music Store vs the Rest [Archive]

MacRumors

Oct 13, 2003, 07:43 PM

Various analysts are weighing in on the growing competition amongst online download music stores.

USAToday posts (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/techreviews/products/2003-10-13-download-options_x.htm) a comparison between the various services, including Napster 2.0, MusicMatch, Rhapsody, BuyMusic and iTunes Music Store. Meanwhile, a Reuters article (http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=3605604&section=news) quotes analysts who feel that Apple may be a little late to market with its iTunes Music Store for Windows.

MusicMatch presently provides the most similar service to Apple's iTunes -- with integrated jukebox software, and similar licensing terms ($.99/song, unlimited CD burns) -- and is available today. Ironically, MusicMatch software is presently provided with Apple's PC iPod offerings. MusicMatch claims that they will continue to support the iPod but "it's up to Apple to decide if they'll ship iPod with MusicMatch jukebox."

Apple's iTunes Music Store for Windows is widely expected to be released this Thursday (October 16th).

appleguru1

Oct 13, 2003, 07:52 PM

Apple will still do it the best, and hopefully thus lure Windows users to iTunes and the iTMS...

TheFish

Oct 13, 2003, 07:54 PM

there was a poll on the usatoday article that asked what service you would be using, i believe the options were napster, music match, buy music, raphsody, iTMS, no service, and p2p clients kazaa groakster etc... anyways iTMS was at the top with about half the votes. Last time i checked though they took the poll off.

Wash!!

Oct 13, 2003, 07:59 PM

Those copy cats are going be left in the dust pretty soon...

Mudbug

Oct 13, 2003, 07:59 PM

I would imagine that they'd stop bundling MusicMatch Jukebox with the windows iPods when WiTunes is released, since they'd be competing products with competing music stores attached to them. Why give your competition a leg up? Now, if jukebox offered optional connectivity to the iTMS, then maybe they'd keep it bundled. But I doubt that.

arn

Oct 13, 2003, 08:04 PM

Napster is not due until later.

I think it's a bit unfair to compare an announced "500,000" to a presently available 200,000+. But regardless. We'll worry about Napster when it gets here.

MusicMatch is of some concern... especially since it has the PC side of the iPod market... but I hopefully, Apple will be able to market their way up.

I'm not sure -- can Apple easily provide updates to the PC iPod population? I'd guess not at present.

arn

Makosuke

Oct 13, 2003, 08:13 PM

How much of a factor this will be, I'm not sure, but don't forget that the iPod's popularity, even among PC people, works both ways.

True, they've been plugging Musicmatch, but on the other hand, given the choice, wouldn't you rather buy your songs in a format that's compatible with your $300 portable music player?

That assumes that Apple doesn't upgrade the iPod to handle WMA DRM (which I don't think they will), but it really could make a big difference.

maxterpiece

Oct 13, 2003, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by Macrumors
analysts who feel that Apple may be a little late to market with its iTunes Music Store for Windows.

It is absolutely ridiculous to say that! There is no service that has had even a fraction of the press that apple has had in relation to the ITMS. I would argue, in fact, that this chaotic spattering of no-name companies coming out with online music stores has only served to bolster the attention and anticipation of Windows ITMS. There is no name out there that has a reputation like Apple's in terms of consumer confidence. Consumer confidence that their purchased music will be at least as dynamic as CD music is the biggest boundary that has prevented any of the music services, pre the initial release of ITMS and post release. It seems to me that the ITMS has become the standard by which all other music stores are measured - the media has embraced it as the ideal that all these followers are trying to capture. This reputation, along with the advertising blitz that I am confident apple will follow the ITMS Windows release with, I believe, will put ITMS on a completely different plane from these other services. Have confidence - Apple knows what it is doing and is releasing ITMS Windows at a most opportune time.
max

reedm007

Oct 13, 2003, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by arn
Napster is not due until later.

I think it's a bit unfair to compare an announced "500,000" to a presently available 200,000+. But regardless. We'll worry about Napster when it gets here.

I agree, arn. We'll have to wait and see what happens this Thursday.

And, is it just me or does USA Today seem a bit biased toward subscription services? The highest rated service on their list (3.5 stars) is Rhapsody, where they say "For the user who doesn't put a premium on portability and is happy to listen near the computer" as the pro and "Not being able to download songs to the hard drive or MP3 player" as the negative, this seems to be a pretty big negative and a relatively poor positive to me... yet somehow this one comes out on top!

I guess I'm biased against subscription services, because I feel like we get more and more of these as time goes on... It's a corporate "strategy" because you get people paying a monthly rate, regardless of what they do. I'm sick of paying monthly bills, and I don't want to add another one...

But at any rate, perhaps USA Today should have waited until after Thursday (which they clearly *know* is coming) to publish this article.

EDIT: Anyone else notice how one of the "great oldies" that are found only on Rhapsody, can be found on iTMS? Hearts and Bones. And, call me a Paul Simon nerd, but the author of the article didn't even get the name of the song right. It's not "Heart and Bones" it's "Hearts and Bones". :D

totally_fly

Oct 13, 2003, 08:26 PM

It seems they have accidentally left out a lot of features the iTMS has!

Album art. We've got it!
Radio stations. Tons!
The best interface! No doubts!
AAC quality!
No subscription!

What is this garbage?

Edit: Oh ya! And with "the best service" they pay 10$ a month plus 80¢ each time they burn a song to a cd!! What's up with that!

Biased article!

Ensoniq

Oct 13, 2003, 08:37 PM

I think it's funny how all these "analysts" can't tell the difference between their a$$ and a hot rock.

The iTMS is without a doubt the most successful PAID music source currently available. We can debate number of users and number of available songs...but iTMS wins on making a profit for Apple.

There has not been one review yet that has claimed that any of the other music services for PC users are as well designed and as easy to use as the iTMS. They are simply second-rate imitations, but the analysts hang on to the fact that they work with PC machines, while iTMS does not.

What do I expect to see from the iTMS for Windows:

1 - iTunes 5.0 will be identical in the PC/Mac versions. And it will be free to download and use, just like on the Mac. Apple will make money in song sales, not the Windows software itself.

2 - iTunes 5.0 will be optimized for use with the iPod, causing Apple to sell even more of them. iTMS downloads for PC will most likely be AAC format because it's superior to MP3 and WMA, regardless of the "analysts" being misinformed.

3 - Machine/Player/Burning rights will be identical for PC users as they are for Mac users. There is no reason, unless the record companies insisted, to differentiate between PC vs. Mac users in pricing/rights.

Essentially, there will not need to be any special "magic" for iTMS for Windows to succeed. It will be the mirror image of iTMS for Mac. Same great software, same iPod integration, same audio format, same media rights, same fair pricing. If the "analysts" think all of that is going to be ignored by PC users because Apple is arriving "late", they need a new career.

-- Ensoniq

reedm007

Oct 13, 2003, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by totally_fly
Oh ya! And with "the best service" they pay 10$ a month plus 80¢ each time they burn a song to a cd!! What's up with that!

Yes! People (read: analysts and journalists) keep implying that somehow that $0.79 is a better deal than iTMS' $0.99/song. But, in order to be cheaper, you'd have to get 50 tracks or more/month, on a REGULAR BASIS. (there's the inherent flaw with subscription services) Because, for example, even if you only buy 49 tracks/month, you'd get:

iTMS: 49 * $0.99 = $48.51
Rhapsody: $9.99 + (49 * $0.79) = $48.70

And that doesn't even include how Albums on iTMS can give you more tracks for the price of 10, so that figure could be even more in favor of iTMS.

Plus, with Rhapsody, you don't get files you can put on your iPod, etc. The *only* advantage Rhapsody has is that it provides unlimited streaming from your computer, which, for a "niche" population, could end up being a good deal.

It's like we're comparing cable to Amazon's DVD sales and giving Amazon 3 stars because they don't let you watch TV.

MrMacMan

Oct 13, 2003, 08:44 PM

Well thats cool.

If apple gets the store out they have a whole market to play with...

Very cool... :D

tychay

Oct 13, 2003, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Macrumors
Meanwhile, a Reuters article (http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=3605604&section=news) quotes analysts who feel that Apple may be a little late to market with its iTunes Music Store for Windows.

Before people start bagging on the articles too much, the only analyst quoted(*) is Rob Enderle of "GigaGroup" or "Enderle Group" or (whatever banner he and his Newsfactor buddies have been spewing under)--lately, it seems that someone with a vested interest in anti-Apple and anti-Linux commentary seems to be footing the bill. I recommend any journalist or any user do a search for him on the Internet to prove to themselves what sort of "analyst" he is before being duped again. I'm tired of them letting him scum mvp (http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/) dollars from his overlords. It's about time they make him do actual analysis.

Yes, I know about John Dvorak. But Dvorak claims to be a columnist, not an analyst. Big difference.

Please, Arn don't bother to link any article that quotes Enderle and his market research firm of one! Any journalist who quotes him is obviously too lazy to do some real legwork and the article is probably a fluff piece.

(*) Well actually there was another analyst from Lehman brothers whose quote is quite bullish on the iPod. It's obvious that the "analysts" mentioned in the article must be all (one) employees of the Enderle Group!

Take care,

mms

Oct 13, 2003, 08:49 PM

If Apple keeps the same prices/conditions for PC users, iTMS will be able to compete with any other paid music download service out there. Now the question is how aggressively will Apple advertise the release of iTMS. If Apple has bad marketing like they usually do, knowledge of iTMS for PC would spread mostly through word of mouth, so I'm assuming that first week sales won't be as good as the next couple of weeks.

Even if it is limited to XP/2000, there hopefully will be many users since it does offer a competitive price with good quality.

mms

Oct 13, 2003, 08:51 PM

What I meant to say above was that iTMS would be able to compete with the others, just that it may take a bit of time after the initial release.

Hawthorne

Oct 13, 2003, 09:10 PM

I think the fact that iTMS set sales records for online music sales that *flattened* the competition in its first week despite being available on just the Mac is all the evidence we need as to which service is best.

dongmin

Oct 13, 2003, 09:11 PM

Apple's big secret weapon is the iPod. Apple can really go to town in integrating the iPod with iTunes and iTMS.

Apple should bundle music with the iPod, e.g. 100 'loaner' songs with each iPod purchase. Or 20 free iTMS downloads with each iPod purchase. This will make the iPod a more attractive purchase AND get people into the habit of using the iTMS to buy music. Once you start, you can't stop.

mms

Oct 13, 2003, 09:21 PM

The free songs idea would be nice, but I 100 would definitely be too much. It should be some number that lets users get a taste of what iTMS is like but not so much that they would be getting so much songs that they save a whole 20% or something of their iPod purchase.

DeusOmnis

Oct 13, 2003, 09:45 PM

Yeah, this analyist is full of crap. Hopefully Apple will do some good marketing. iTMS is the best option and the mac community can support it by itself. Windows people will come as they hear about how much better it is.

Also, if iTunes 5 is kick-ass that will have a huge leg-up for us. Get the uber-geeks using it and the rest will follow ;)

rikers_mailbox

Oct 13, 2003, 09:51 PM

This Thursday is when iTunes spreads onto Windows computers faster than the SoBig.virus did.

iPod is Apple's first harware accessory that has full functionality with Windows systems. Now comes Apple's flair for hardware/software integration into the equation with the announcement of iTunes for Windows. Soon, the mp3-user PC market will taste the sweetness of Apple, and M$ is leaves a sour aftertaste. iTunes isn't enough of a bite, Apple could introduce the rest of the iLife suite onto Windows to eat up the Photo and Video niches. Who said an Apple camera was impossible? And iPhoto for Windows, why not?

PC users will ask; "So, if iPod and my iTFW (iTunes For Windows) work so well together, why shouldn't my whole computer work this well?"

Oh, it can, and it does. It's called Apple.

I'm buying my stock tomorrow.

Manimac

Oct 13, 2003, 09:56 PM

I'm surprised the reporter would actually try to make a call on whether Apple was late. It's way too early for that. We have had a bunch of announcements lately. I don't think any early results can be used to gauge long-term success. I think it will take several months to see who is capturing long-term share versus who tapped into some initial pent-up demand or launch excitement.

My guess is that if the PC version is like the Mac version, Apple will do just fine. Only time will tell though.

Jerry Spoon

Oct 13, 2003, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by rikers_mailbox
This Thursday is when iTunes spreads onto Windows computers faster than the SoBig.virus did.

I'm buying my stock tomorrow.

My thoughts exactly. Got my stock today. Glad I'm not the only one seeing this as a potential benefit to Apple's stock prices. Of course, I wish I bought it back in April or so when it was at $12.

NeoMayhem

Oct 13, 2003, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by rikers_mailbox
Who said an Apple camera was impossible? And iPhoto for Windows, why not?

Apple made one of the first digital cameras back in 1992 :P

jamesatzones

Oct 13, 2003, 10:29 PM

How can Apple be late to the game they started... It has been well known that Apple would release this for Windows before the end of the year, it's coming just a bit early. Now, I feel assuming all the digital rights are the same, Apple will out sell every other service (Windows only) with in a short period. This will also create another craze of Mac users buying music too because of the coverage and that it will be the "cool thing"...

This is an exciting time to be a Mac user and Apple is changing the face of computing all over again.

Snowy_River

Oct 13, 2003, 10:31 PM

For the record, not all analysts think that Apple is behind with iTMS. I heard an analyst this morning on NPR saying that he thought that Apple had significant advantages over the rest of the competition.

Intelligent commentary. One more reason that I like listening to NPR.

kangaroo

Oct 13, 2003, 10:33 PM

It will be interesting to see how Apple attempts to elbow iTunes into an increasingly crowded Windows market. Will they adapt the (image over function) ‘we are hip’ iPod ads to ‘we are hipp-er’ than the other guys--iTune ads? Or, will they attempt to differentiate ITMS based on substantive differences? Even at this early point in the business, it’s easy to see a convergence of form, function and price among the competing services. Although, ITMS is arguably superior at this point—overtime, differences will disappear as the services cannibalize each other’s strengths. At some point, they <inevitably> become fungible online digital music sellers—in much the same way Amazon and Barnes & Noble are fungible online book sellers. If this is where Apple is going to end up anyway, then marketing to people’s emotions (we’re hip) may be the smart move. On the other hand, since Apple is the only one stop digital solution (as service provider and player/computer maker) they can pitch synergy and simplicity.

Dippo

Oct 13, 2003, 10:34 PM

It's funny that for EVERY store except iTunes, that it was pointed out that the songs "WON'T" play on the iPod.

1. This could mean that iPod won't be supporting WMA (which I doubt the analyst has such info)

2. That the iPod is so important to online music sales, incompatability is worth at least 0.5 stars off.

I still think though that if Apple's main goal is for iPod sales and maybe even mac sales, they should support as many different formats as possible. After all, do you really think WMA is going to sound better than AAC??

If people are going to use iPod, then won't they have to install iTunes, which would at least let them try it out. (a couple free downloads for iPod owners wouldn't hurt either)

JohnGillilan

Oct 13, 2003, 10:56 PM

Is there any speculation as to whether or not Macs will be able to stream the music collection of iTunes for Windows users on the same closed network??

Is this done through Rendeveous?? If so, I am guessing this feature would not cross over. I am a college student and can currently stream the music collections of every mac user in my building -- it would be amazing if this feature was expanded to iTunes for Windows. Any thoughts??

Wonder Boy

Oct 13, 2003, 10:59 PM

i read an excel type graphic in the hartford current today. it gave the itms 3 stars and rhapsody 3.5 stars. they really weret objective, and took jabs at apple whenever they could.

on the other hand, in the "con" section, they ended every paragraph with "does not work on ipod" i thought that was a nice little compliment. they went out of there way to mention that none of these services are compatible with the worlds most popular mp3/aac player. it bolds well for the pc itms.

weave

Oct 13, 2003, 11:01 PM

It will be interesting to see if Apple has the guts enough to tie Windows iTunes to work only with the iPod.

A big reason why the entire iTMS works so well is that it's tied to work with the ipod and only the ipod and hence one can update both pieces (itunes and ipod software) as needed. Witness the addition of AAC support to all generations of ipods.

If Apple doesn't have to try to be compatible with every player out there (meaning basically WMP) then they can better control the user experience and the entire envirornment.

(I think it's safe to say they won't be releasing unprotected mp3s in the windows version)

mproud

Oct 13, 2003, 11:21 PM

I know no one who uses MusicMatch or BuyMusic or whatever. But...

Don't worry.

Apple will win.

This time, Apple will win.

rotorblade

Oct 13, 2003, 11:59 PM

While I have no doubt that the iTMS for Windows is going to do well, I think Apple should have held out a while releasing the Mac version until there was a working Windows version, or at least had one which was very near to completion.

Whether it's true or not that the record companies wanted a trial (Mac users) period prior to letting Apple release a Windows version does not excuse Apple for not having a Windows version in the wings waiting. If it took Apple two years to put a Mac version together, they could have been working on a Windows version at the same time.

Once the record companies gave the go ahead to BuyMusic and others, there was no reason why they shouldn't have given Apple the go ahead as well. At that point, Apple could have announced iTMS for Windows and still beaten the compeition to the street.

Just my two cents. In any case. I still think they're going to do fine. I just would have liked to have seen them get the jump on the competition on the Windows side to.

odenshaw

Oct 14, 2003, 12:02 AM

Have you ever stopped to think who reads USA today? That paper is for the lowest common denominator in America. This basically means, ****ing moron.
Take the article with a grain of salt, iTunes for windows will rock, you can bet on that.

reedm007

Oct 14, 2003, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by odenshaw
Have you ever stopped to think who reads USA today? That paper is for the lowest common denominator in America. This basically means, ****ing moron.
Take the article with a grain of salt, iTunes for windows will rock, you can bet on that.

That may be, but that's a population Apple is trying to appeal to... :)

Snowy_River

Oct 14, 2003, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by rotorblade
While I have no doubt that the iTMS for Windows is going to do well, I think Apple should have held out a while releasing the Mac version until there was a working Windows version, or at least had one which was very near to completion.

Whether it's true or not that the record companies wanted a trial (Mac users) period prior to letting Apple release a Windows version does not excuse Apple for not having a Windows version in the wings waiting. If it took Apple two years to put a Mac version together, they could have been working on a Windows version at the same time.

Once the record companies gave the go ahead to BuyMusic and others, there was no reason why they shouldn't have given Apple the go ahead as well. At that point, Apple could have announced iTMS for Windows and still beaten the compeition to the street.

Just my two cents. In any case. I still think they're going to do fine. I just would have liked to have seen them get the jump on the competition on the Windows side to.

Yes, but...

If Apple signed a contract that stated they would give the Record companies a six month trial period (anyone notice how close we are to exactly six months since iTMS was originally launched?), then they might not have had a choice about when iTMS for Windows could be launched. Whether or not the Record companies decided to grant similar (or not-so-similar) licensing agreements to other companies (i.e. BuyMusic.com) would be completely irrelevent.

Personally, the timing of this makes me think that this has basically been the plan from day one. (Or at least since iTMS was first launched...)

xlacrosse

Oct 14, 2003, 01:25 AM

I'm buying my stock tomorrow. [/B]

I bought mine last week... you need to get there quick. Hopefully there earnings report will be nice. and cause the stock to jump.

Analog Kid

Oct 14, 2003, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by arn
Napster is not due until later.

I think it's a bit unfair to compare an announced "500,000" to a presently available 200,000+. But regardless. We'll worry about Napster when it gets here.

MusicMatch is of some concern... especially since it has the PC side of the iPod market... but I hopefully, Apple will be able to market their way up.

I'm not sure -- can Apple easily provide updates to the PC iPod population? I'd guess not at present.

arn

I'm sure iTunes Windows will be a free download. I haven't looked at the site, but USA T makes MusicMatch sound like a bit of a dog to use, with no real benefits other than integration with the jukebox software (ala iTunes).

I'm sure a good number of folks will think that maybe their iPod will work better with Apple software, and then see the nice pretty iTMS and migrate over.

Also note that MusicMatch tunes won't play on the iPod it came bundled with! :rolleyes:

tsb2rxn

Oct 14, 2003, 03:58 AM

iTMS won't be late. Specially when it will be bundled with iPod, it'll catch up and pass the competition :D

Did anyone notice that in the Cons, most had that the service didn't work with iPod?

rjwill246

Oct 14, 2003, 05:58 AM

To quote such a low consumer recognition of Apple should have alerted USA T that something was amiss... Apple is considered one of the most recognized brand names in the world. The quality of reporting from Reuters and too often, USA T, including Rob "the sky is ALWAYS falling in on Apple" Enderle's silly comments make notable quotes but those quoting these dingbats place them in an all together much too favourable category- that of exspurts! What is so delightful is that for a year or so now, Apple has been on track in a resurrection of sorts that almost defies belief. One stunning software and hardware product after another. I know of NO other company in the computing world doing anything like this. Apple you amaze me... hence my new G5 and 17" PB (minus white spots!). Oh and Dell's ripping off of University of Texas in their anaemic cluster is more than shameful... it borders on a litiginous event. And a superb example of how cost effective the Wintel platform is...NOT! 30 times more so than an Apple offering. Hopefully people of decision-making status will take note of this!

Jeff Harrell

Oct 14, 2003, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by reedm007
And, is it just me or does USA Today seem a bit biased toward subscription services?Well, I have to admit that I can see the writer's point. A flat-rate service is a great way to discover new music. (Presumably. I wouldn't know firsthand, because I've never been enough of a sucker to subscribe to one... except for one of those Columbia House "nine CD's for a penny" scams way back in the 1980's. Fool one once, shame on you, and so on.)

But the thing is, iTMS isn't a "music discovery service." It's a bloody music store, period full stop. Judging it on the grounds that it's only a fair music discovery service misses the point. We all know that.

I'm most intrigued by the rumors we've heard of a new "loan" feature in the music store. I was thinking about this just last night. I think it would be great, a real differentiator, if you could download an album and listen to it for 24 hours before deciding whether to buy it. I'm not sure how FairPlay could be used to implement that, but it would absolutely kick ass, if you'll pardon the expression.

I thought about it in these terms: the big selling point of subscription-based services like Emusic and whatever else (I don't even know their names, for the most part) is that you can download stuff that you've never heard before just because you like the cover art or whatever. iTMS doesn't give you that sort of capability, currently, because each download costs you a buck. But if iTMS incorporated a try-before-you-buy feature, that would put the last nail in the coffin of the subscription services.

For the life of me, I can't figure out how that could work with Apple's existing technologies. But if anybody can figure it out, Apple can.

(Dammit, now I'm getting my hopes up. I didn't want to do that.)

Jeff Harrell

Oct 14, 2003, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by mms
If Apple has bad marketing like they usually do...I'm sorry, I don't mean to be dense, but... was this remark intended to be sarcastic? Cause, you know, it seems to me it's either tongue-in-cheek or totally wrong.

Jeff Harrell

Oct 14, 2003, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by JohnGillilan
Is this done through Rendeveous?? If so, I am guessing this feature would not cross over.It's utterly trivial to implement Rendezvous on Windows. Earlier this year I used Apple's example source code to develop a Rendezvous-aware application for SGI's IRIX operating system. It's easy, easy.

So yeah, it's entirely possible that Apple might include Rendezvous streaming in iTunes 5 (or whatever it turns out to be).

delton05

Oct 14, 2003, 08:06 AM

According to this link:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/32801.html

Apple Comp. is being sued again by Apple Corp., again.

Wonder if it might threaten the viability of iTunes Music Store. The bad publicity might divert PC people to the competition.

Seems a big issue that could cost Apple Comp. heaps given the income potential.

Ensoniq

Oct 14, 2003, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be dense, but... was this remark intended to be sarcastic? Cause, you know, it seems to me it's either tongue-in-cheek or totally wrong.

As someone who loves Apple products, let me clearly state that I agree with MMS to some extent on Apple's marketing.

Apple is hit or miss when it comes to their advertising. The original Mac 1984 commercial, the Think Different campaign, and the iPod "Dancing Nerd" commercial: Brilliant

The original G4 "Tanks" commercial, the "Switchers" campaign (aside from Ellen Feiss and Janie Porche), and the G5 commercial: Lame

Apple knows how to get it's brand out there...but seems to preach to the choir. I've seen Apple ads on TV while watching with PC friends, and none of them have ever said "Whoa...that makes me want to go out and buy an Apple product".

Apple designs commercials that appeal to it's fan base...with messages that are so low key they are almost subliminal. But their commercials don't hit very hard to a non-target audience. And that is what I wish would change. Something that punches PC users and analysts in the face and says "Take that, motherf*cker!" in a booming Samuel L. Jackson voice.

Wait...there was one. The G3/Pentium "Snails" ad...another classic. I wanna see more of that, and less of the new iPod "Psychedelic MTV Urban Funk" commercials. Excuse me while I go vomit now...

delton05

Oct 14, 2003, 08:11 AM

Sonofhaig

Oct 14, 2003, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by mms
If Apple has bad marketing like they usually do....

What? Bad marketing? Please give a few examples please.... :rolleyes:

Mr. MacPhisto

Oct 14, 2003, 10:05 AM

I really don't consider this to be a problem because Apple is hardly late. Yes, a few sites have launched on Windows beforehand, but none enjoy the credibility or reliability that Apple can supply. The major competitor that Apple has to worry about is M$, but they likely won't have hardware to go with their release and will come after Apple.

I attend one of the largest Universities in the nation and, from what I see, Apple has a sterling reputation, even among PC users. Most people crave Apples, they look enviously at Apple products, and they know that Apple makes things easy. I think iTMS for Windows will succeed and own the largest market share, just like the iPod because it gives PC users a glimpse into the Mac world. If Apple can provide a solid, reliable version of iTunes for Windows, I think this will be huge and will help convert people to Mac. Once processor speeds begin to scale well again I think we'll see an increase in Apple marketshare and a price drop as well - due to new revenue sources and increased share. I'm very optimistic at this point and feel that Apple's sales may top 5% by next summer for the computing market. I also think that iTunes and the iPod will command at least 40% of the digital music market, which will make both the clear winners for marketshare.

dongmin

Oct 14, 2003, 10:21 AM

The key question is How well iTunes and iTMS for Windows is implemented. If it is as good as it is on the Mac, then we have no worries. It'll spread like wildfires.

As many of these windows music service announcements as we have seen, the hype generated by these have been virtually nil. Ask an avg. Joe about whether they've heard of this new service from Musicmatch or Buy.com, and they won't have a clue. Ask them about the iPod, and it'll be obvious how much more of a market advantage Apple has. iPod is THE most sought after gadget for teenagers and college students. Make sure the iPod works seemlessly with iTMS and only with iTMS, and it's game over. Thanks for playing.

The hype generated by Thursday's announcement will be huge. I'll be shocked if Apple doesn't do 1 mil songs in the first couple of days, 3-4 mil in the first week.

iLife

Oct 14, 2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by dongmin
Apple's big secret weapon is the iPod. Apple can really go to town in integrating the iPod with iTunes and iTMS.

Apple should bundle music with the iPod, e.g. 100 'loaner' songs with each iPod purchase. Or 20 free iTMS downloads with each iPod purchase. This will make the iPod a more attractive purchase AND get people into the habit of using the iTMS to buy music. Once you start, you can't stop.

take it one step further, and give the users who already have an iPod and use Windows an incentive, like 10 free downloads when you switch to iTunes for Windows. That way you get some of the already existing musicmatch users switched over to a better service :D

Mr. MacPhisto

Oct 14, 2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by iLife
take it one step further, and give the users who already have an iPod and use Windows an incentive, like 10 free downloads when you switch to iTunes for Windows. That way you get some of the already existing musicmatch users switched over to a better service :D

If rumors of a couple day trial of an album are true then that is another factor. I'd imagine a free download of a trial CD could be transferred to an iPod (there are controls still there) but could not be burned or converted to an MP3 or WAV. I'd love to see a 48 hour trial - that way I can try out CDs and see if I really want to buy an album or just a track. If this happens and is exclusive to Apple (or easiest with Apple) then I think we've got a serious winner here.