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MacRumors
Jan 16, 2008, 08:56 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Mac OS X 10.5.2 was one of the possible updates surrounding Macworld, but has yet to show up in our software update. The previous seed of Mac OS X 10.5.2 re-introduced a list view (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/20/apple-adds-list-view-to-stacks-in-leopard-10-5-2/) to the Stacks.

No announcements about Mac OS X 10.5.2 were made at Macworld, but one submitter noted that the requirements for Time Capsule (http://www.apple.com/timecapsule/) had stated originally stated a minimum of Mac OS X 10.5.2, though this has since been changed.

Apparently, Apple hasn't quite finished working on Mac OS X 10.5.2 and issued a new seed just yesterday, addressing a number of issues. The latest build is 9C16.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/16/mac-os-x-10-5-2-soon-new-seed/)



rph105
Jan 16, 2008, 08:57 PM
It's about time, 10.5.1 has fever bugs than 10.5 but a few of the other bugs need to be ironed out, I'm very happy with my operating system compared to the everage person owning vista, let's see what apple do, how about a quicktime update and iTunes update, visually im talking

Eidorian
Jan 16, 2008, 08:58 PM
300-450 MB update!

I want it as soon as possible and stamped to retail. I've been holding off my own purchase of OS X retail for this update. We were hoping to see it at MWSF like 10.4.4.

crackintosh
Jan 16, 2008, 08:58 PM
I had a hunch that apple was deliberately delaying 10.5.2 for macworld, however macworld came and went.

I need syslogd fixed!!!

paul17win
Jan 16, 2008, 08:59 PM
who cares we want the MBP

zedsdead
Jan 16, 2008, 09:02 PM
I hope there is improved performance for Back To My Mac...it still does not work great.

When on the same router, it works flawlessly, however, when trying to access my iMac from any other router (I even tried in the Apple Store), it does not work.

megfilmworks
Jan 16, 2008, 09:04 PM
who cares we want the MBP
I second that emotion!

sellitman
Jan 16, 2008, 09:04 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

I'd like to see a aluminum Mac Book with a Touch Pad and an LED backlite screen.

writeous
Jan 16, 2008, 09:12 PM
Darn it, so that means we have like another month to wait for this update:mad:. That was the only reason I was looking for to MacWorld so much, because I thought the update would come out then. I really hope it fixes my MBP taking 5 minutes to wake out of sleep, or sometimes not waking up at all.

paul17win
Jan 16, 2008, 09:13 PM
I second that emotion!

i third your second!!!!

chuckles:)
Jan 16, 2008, 09:15 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

I'd like to see a aluminum Mac Book with a Touch Pad and an LED backlite screen.

Was this a joke, or have you been asleep for the past 48 hours?

Krafty
Jan 16, 2008, 09:17 PM
Was this a joke, or have you been asleep for the past 48 hours?

Possibly both?

macman784
Jan 16, 2008, 09:17 PM
Any chance will see new GMA X3100 drivers in the new update... I hope soooooo :confused:

gugy
Jan 16, 2008, 09:18 PM
who cares we want the MBP

March or April, it's coming

paul17win
Jan 16, 2008, 09:18 PM
Was this a joke, or have you been asleep for the past 48 hours?

That MBA thing is no MacBook with an aluminum enclosure!!! its a waist of time

Frixo Cool
Jan 16, 2008, 09:20 PM
I hope Apple will give us 10.5.2 soon as I am really annoyed with a whole series of bugs. Tiger was superb in that department compared to Leopard now. There are still major bugs in networking, MT OpenGL is broken on PPC and some nVidia cards, many USB devices not recognized after sleep, a dozen of minor app bugs, visual artefacts in Finder (rare, but they do happen), low-res icons on desktop after a few weeks of uptime (never happened on Tiger) and so on, and on...

I love Apple and I think that Leopard is the best OS ever on any platform, but it's really full of bugs - like no OS X before. On the other hand, even with all those problems it's a few ligthyears ahead of Vista, so we should be happy! :)

Apple, please fix it! Invest a bit more in QA! It matters, really!

Thi
Jan 16, 2008, 09:22 PM
Same here I was waiting for 10.5.2 to fix my mbp wifi issues. I've cleaned install 4x and still have crappy wifi. On a positive note, my GF is getting a Macbook Air!

Eidorian
Jan 16, 2008, 09:22 PM
Any chance will see new GMA X3100 drivers in the new update... I hope soooooo :confused:I suspect you're trying to play a game in less then millions of colors?

flopticalcube
Jan 16, 2008, 09:24 PM
'bout time, Steve.

crocker84
Jan 16, 2008, 09:28 PM
Would it be possible that current mbs and mb pros have the capability of multitouch and that will be unlocked with the 10.5.2 update. That would make sense since the mba won't ship for the next 2 weeks. It may be that we will see the 10.5.2 update within the next 2 weeks along with new mb pros.

zedsdead
Jan 16, 2008, 09:33 PM
Would it be possible that current mbs and mb pros have the capability of multitouch and that will be unlocked with the 10.5.2 update. That would make sense since the mba won't ship for the next 2 weeks. It may be that we will see the 10.5.2 update within the next 2 weeks along with new mb pros.

It seems a little soon to me. I think Apple is going to try and feed off of the Macbook Air announcement a little longer before updating the other laptops.

In Apple's eye, both were recently updated in November (All specs for the Macbook, and just the 2.6 Option for the Macbook Pro). As we know, even that minor 2.6 bump counts as an update to Apple, just look at the Mac Pro 8-Core update for reference last April.

This year though these multi-touch trackpads have to be coming to the other laptops I imagine. Also, by the end of this year Jobs stated all displays would be LED, so the Macbooks (and 17" Macbook Pro) need new displays too.

In short, the updates should be sooner than later, but don't hold your breath.

superspud
Jan 16, 2008, 09:40 PM
how will this update get to us? is it something thatwill have to be purchased or will it just be one of the software updates you get randomly?

chuckles:)
Jan 16, 2008, 09:40 PM
That MBA thing is no MacBook with an aluminum enclosure!!! its a waist of time

waist=hips, waste=garbage.

and the macbook air is essentially a macbook in an aluminum enclosure with an LED lit screen and a touchpad... just a little thin without a few ports...

Justinerator
Jan 16, 2008, 09:44 PM
so what does this seed mean? that it will be another couple of weeks? less than that? more than that?

Stridder44
Jan 16, 2008, 09:46 PM
who cares we want the MBP


MW could have been 10.5.2 and a new MBP (ok ok, the MBA too) and I would have been the happiest person alive.


/Who honestly gives a flip about iTunes movie rentals?

pyramid6
Jan 16, 2008, 09:46 PM
To echo the question asked above: does anyone know how long before they release seeds to the public? I assuming this is the seed they are going to release.

I really want the Nikon D300 to be added to the raw formats to be supported. If it doesn't come with this build I'm switching to LR.

P6

megfilmworks
Jan 16, 2008, 09:49 PM
waist=hips, waste=garbage.

and the macbook air is essentially a macbook in an aluminum enclosure with an LED lit screen and a touchpad... just a little thin without a few ports...
Great little portable, but when you need a Macbook Pro for work only a Macbook Pro is capable enough to do the really big jobs. Editing, rendering, etc.

Foxglove9
Jan 16, 2008, 09:52 PM
The one thing I was looking forward too, but looks like I'll have to wait even longer. Hopefully soon, I need my OS update fix.

chuckles:)
Jan 16, 2008, 09:58 PM
I like stacks... but a list view would be nice.

ndriver182
Jan 16, 2008, 10:00 PM
I like stacks... but a list view would be nice.

Ditto. I use my apps, docs, and downloads stacks all the time and I REALLY wish I could do list view instead. So much better. I'm on pins and needles.

paul17win
Jan 16, 2008, 10:03 PM
/Who honestly gives a flip about iTunes movie rentals?[/QUOTE]

ya seriously i still rent DVDs from the movie store!!! Hmmm....to bad i cant rent a MBP at the Movie store

Analog Kid
Jan 16, 2008, 10:08 PM
10.5.2 was the most anticipated release out of Macworld for me... I've been checking for it constantly since the keynote, but no luck. I chose to update both of my machines to Leopard because it's just good enough to run, but the little things are starting to annoy the heck out of me. I'm tired of force-relaunching Finder...

I don't expect 10.5.2 to solve everything, I'm expecting 10.5.3 to really be the stable version. .1 was stuff they new about before they shipped. .2 will probably handle the big issues they got from users and developers. .3 will probably be their first chance go after the little stuff.

I've read the lead post for this thread a few time now, and I don't see a darn word about MacBook Pros. If people are going to use every thread as an opportunity to whinge, this is going to become quite unbearable very quickly.

iMikeT
Jan 16, 2008, 10:14 PM
I hope they fix Disk Utility and the problems its having with repairing permissions.

Ryanr14
Jan 16, 2008, 10:20 PM
I hope they fix Disk Utility and the problems its having with repairing permissions.

ditto that, we should get the multitouch trackpad options too! they were built into the system prefs

JNeo25
Jan 16, 2008, 10:21 PM
I'm hoping bundled with 10.5.3 there will be an update to the airport extreme. Airport disk rarely works (and crashes constantly) and I cannot yet get consistant N speeds through my Airport Extremes. I guess the solution to my N problem is to...buy ANOTHER extreme?

Not to mention the finder relaunch issues and back to my mac not working right.

chuckles:)
Jan 16, 2008, 10:24 PM
ditto that, we should get the multitouch trackpad options too! they were built into the system prefs

The multitouch probably requires something on the hardware end 2.

I'm sure it'll drift up the line 2 the MBPs pretty soon though.

Stridder44
Jan 16, 2008, 10:24 PM
/Who honestly gives a flip about iTunes movie rentals?

ya seriously i still rent DVDs from the movie store!!! Hmmm....to bad i cant rent a MBP at the Movie store


It's just annoying when we're all there watching and waiting for new cool products and computer updates when all they give us is that same iTunes crap. "Now you can view your downloads in some different way than before! And now for a 15 minute filler of demos and movie studio CEO b.s.!"

It's like a slap in the face. Yes, we get it. You can download videos through iTunes. No one cares. iTunes movie rentals? Whoop dee doo. That's about as exciting as reading the nutritional facts on bottled water.

Just give us what we all want to see: new hardware!!

kjs862
Jan 16, 2008, 10:31 PM
Hopefully it will fix the graphics problems I'm having with my ATI X800XT

ungraphic
Jan 16, 2008, 10:32 PM
List view is back.

Thats good. I wonder what steve jobs or whoever else made the final decision, was thinking.

NAG
Jan 16, 2008, 10:34 PM
List view is back.

Thats good. I wonder what steve jobs or whoever else made the final decision, was thinking.

They shouldn't have removed list as an option but I do like stacks. Don't know why everyone is so down on it.

GNice
Jan 16, 2008, 10:35 PM
I'm looking forward to it...but would rather wait until is ready...

pyramid6
Jan 16, 2008, 10:38 PM
To echo the question asked above: does anyone know how long before they release seeds to the public? I assuming this is the seed they are going to release.

I really want the Nikon D300 to be added to the raw formats to be supported. If it doesn't come with this build I'm switching to LR.

P6

To answer my own question. Build 9b16 announced on Nov. 12th. Build 9b18 announced on Nov. 14th. 10.5.1(9b18) was released on Nov. 15th.

Of course it doesn't mean it will be released soon, but I'm hopeful.

P6

paul.b.davis
Jan 16, 2008, 10:52 PM
Who honestly gives a flip about iTunes movie rentals?Actually, my Marketing professor (who apparently is as much of a Mac geek as myself) was talking about Macworld today in class, specifically about the iTunes Movie rentals having the potential to revolutionize movie renting in the same way the NetFlix service did several years ago. I am sure there were people who thought NetFlix was worthless when it first arrived.

11800506
Jan 16, 2008, 10:54 PM
I haven't found Leopard buggy at all. Then again, I haven't used it very extensively. I don't think they are going to release new MBPs seeing as they "updated" them in Nov. and Apple just released a lot of new products at Macworld (even though they are technically consumer products). I just hope when they do update it, they give it a new case since the current one dates back to the Powerbook G4.

NAG
Jan 16, 2008, 10:56 PM
I haven't found Leopard buggy at all. Then again, I haven't used it very extensively. I don't think they are going to release new MBPs seeing as they "updated" them in Nov. and Apple just released a lot of new products at Macworld (even though they are technically consumer products). I just hope when they do update it, they give it a new case since the current one dates back to the Powerbook G4.

Most of the issues I've encountered (besides the wonderful nuke the users and home folders bug) have been network related so I can see how most people wouldn't run into them. I'm happy that OS X doesn't hang when it loses a drive like it used to.

V.K.
Jan 16, 2008, 11:01 PM
I'm looking forward to it...but would rather wait until is ready...

same here. I think it was quite misguided to expect 10.5.2 to be announced at macworld. Imagine Steve saying "...And one more thing, we have an update to leopard fixing lots of bugs!" I'm sure that would have brought the house down.
Hopefully, it will come out in a couple of weeks. And, yes, like everyone else I want the list view for stacks.

Analog Kid
Jan 16, 2008, 11:02 PM
I'm happy that OS X doesn't hang when it loses a drive like it used to.
Amen. I'm assuming you mean it doesn't hang when a remote connection disappears?

chris1207
Jan 16, 2008, 11:04 PM
I presume it will be released with the delivery of the MBA. It would be great if the gesturing will also function on MB and MBP.

For the time capsule, I've been using a Ximeta drive sled ($39 at frys and down load driver from the Ximeta site) connected to my Dlink N wifi router and works just fine for Time Machine.

As far as stability since I've been using pcs for years, I'm used to crashing so no big deal and remember using Macs in the mid 80s when you needed to make sure you saved before printing, as 50% of the time the mac would crash when printing using apple talk and an apple writer.

NAG
Jan 16, 2008, 11:06 PM
Amen. I'm assuming you mean it doesn't hang when a remote connection disappears?

Yeah, the new network stack or whatever is ironically both the cause of the new bugs and the fix for that stupid hanging bug.

poohat1000
Jan 16, 2008, 11:30 PM
If the wireless bug ain't fixed i'm gonna kill someone

twoodcc
Jan 16, 2008, 11:33 PM
yeah i'm hoping this gets released very soon

kaiwai
Jan 16, 2008, 11:39 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

I'd like to see a aluminum Mac Book with a Touch Pad and an LED backlite screen.

Why do you want an aluminium macbook? I went down the road and having viewed the ugliness that is MacBook Pro - no thank you. I'll stick to my plastic-fantastic Macbook, thank you very much.

Stridder44
Jan 16, 2008, 11:44 PM
Actually, my Marketing professor (who apparently is as much of a Mac geek as myself) was talking about Macworld today in class, specifically about the iTunes Movie rentals having the potential to revolutionize movie renting in the same way the NetFlix service did several years ago. I am sure there were people who thought NetFlix was worthless when it first arrived.

Netflix was awesome though. On top of that you keep it for as long as you like for an amazing price ($15 a month is pretty cheap...plus you're getting 3 instead of 1). If you need a movie now, say for a spur of the moment date or something, Blockbuster Online is your man. Works the same as Netflix, only you get to use each movie as a free movie rental (the next movie in your queue is sent off at the same time, plus 2 free game rental coupons a month).

Anyway, my point being that while iTunes Rentals are nifty, there's no way they're even nearly as cool as the "Netflix" concept was when it first came along. But I mean hey I guess it's at least a step in the right direction.

Macula
Jan 17, 2008, 12:04 AM
1I'm expecting 10.5.3 to really be the stable version.

I'm expecting 10.5.11 to really be the stable version.

TheChemist
Jan 17, 2008, 12:08 AM
/Who honestly gives a flip about iTunes movie rentals?

stockholders

lolercopter
Jan 17, 2008, 12:09 AM
Well, with everything out of Macworld that isn't available today coming out in two weeks, that's when I'm hoping 10.5.2'll hit.

hadleydb
Jan 17, 2008, 12:11 AM
Woot! hopefully it arrives right when my new Mac Pro does. :)

forafireescape
Jan 17, 2008, 12:27 AM
Anyway, my point being that while iTunes Rentals are nifty, there's no way they're even nearly as cool as the "Netflix" concept was when it first came along. But I mean hey I guess it's at least a step in the right direction.

Do you think now Netflix will get a move on with the whole Mac compatible streaming rentals?

bdkennedy1
Jan 17, 2008, 12:29 AM
I'm guessing it will be released in 2 weeks when they update the Apple TV and ship the MacBook Air.

byeehaaw
Jan 17, 2008, 12:31 AM
I'm expecting 10.5.11 to really be the stable version.

:p:p:p hahha umm hope the update comes out soon ::crosses fingers::

bdkennedy1
Jan 17, 2008, 12:33 AM
If they don't fix the missing artwork bug in Front Row when sharing an iTunes library, I'm not going to kill, but I will take my laptop down to my Apple Store and display it for the whole store to see.

If the wireless bug ain't fixed i'm gonna kill someone

skwoytek
Jan 17, 2008, 12:34 AM
Anyone check the MacBook Air for 10.5.2?

I'd think there'd be a needed update for the multi-touch trackpad and the videos in System Preferences...


I think we'll see 10.5.2 with the shipping of the MBA.

FCA
Jan 17, 2008, 12:36 AM
I do, desperatly need that MBP update people!! I need to Apple to hurry their butts on and bring it on as soon as possible!! I been waiting for it long enough!!! 2 years and some months people(actually, that was when I bought my first mac)! first waiting for leopard, then waiting for penryn processors and multitouch trackpad...

do you think that by march we will have it??
-FCA

FCA
Jan 17, 2008, 12:39 AM
Anyone check the MacBook Air for 10.5.2?

I'd think there'd be a needed update for the multi-touch trackpad and the videos in System Preferences...


I think we'll see 10.5.2 with the shipping of the MBA.

MBA is currently using 10.5.1...check for pictures in engadget or appleinsider or think secret...

afultz075
Jan 17, 2008, 12:42 AM
Darn it, so that means we have like another month to wait for this update:mad:. That was the only reason I was looking for to MacWorld so much, because I thought the update would come out then. I really hope it fixes my MBP taking 5 minutes to wake out of sleep, or sometimes not waking up at all.

I agree. This waking from sleep issue with Leopard has been pissing me off for over a month now.

iBug2
Jan 17, 2008, 12:50 AM
I don't want to break my NDA but 10.5.2 has some minor issues remaining to be fixed. But I can tell you that the first 10.5.2 seed was full of issues but this one seems pretty stable and snappy so far. I'd expect a release within couple weeks for sure.

kasei
Jan 17, 2008, 12:54 AM
Soon after updating to Leopard my hard drive went from 25 GB to 1.91. Has anyone noticed this? My iDisk says it has 144.47 GB with 1.88 free. This has got to be a bug! If it is I really hope 10.5.2 fixes this.

Yukon Bear
Jan 17, 2008, 12:54 AM
...I think it was quite misguided to expect 10.5.2 to be announced at macworld. Imagine Steve saying "...And one more thing, we have an update to leopard fixing lots of bugs!" I'm sure that would have brought the house down.
Hopefully, it will come out in a couple of weeks. And, yes, like everyone else I want the list view for stacks.

Could not have said it better!

darwinian
Jan 17, 2008, 01:13 AM
Also (im)patiently awaiting the release of 10.5.2 for wireless fixes (BT and airport) primarily. I also hope their shipping version of X11 isn't hopelessly broken and that they roll in the great community supported Xquartz, etc. And though I don't really want to get into it, Spaces has several problems. (Spaces was the key UI feature I've wanted to see in OS X since 10.0. Sigh.)

Of course, regarding rentals (haha), it kind of screams Divx to me ... time limited stuff, etc. I *might* prefer iTS Rentals to Blockbuster (a strange lack of brick and mortar video rental that's not shady in my location), but certainly the hierarchy goes Netflix > iTS > BB.

swissmann
Jan 17, 2008, 01:18 AM
Soon after updating to Leopard my hard drive went from 25 GB to 1.91. Has anyone noticed this? My iDisk says it has 144.47 GB with 1.88 free. This has got to be a bug! If it is I really hope 10.5.2 fixes this.

Check this out.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306904
I had the same issue. Basically if you are syncing your idisk stop it and delete it. I'm also having lots of problems with iCal failing to show synced data although it is there. (Documented problem too.)
http://blog.spanningsync.com/2008/01/update-on-the-l.html

Not to mention:

Spotlight in a finder window defaults back to whole computer instead of the directory I have navigated to.

Window placement not where left off unless move resize then immediately close

Coverflow preview pixelated and a bit slow

HDV video jerky in coverflow

Spotlight across network having problems

Mouse movement gets jagged

Screen sharing without a password try to connect first time says ďwhereís passwordĒ just clicking connect again makes it go through just fine. Takes 2 tries every time.

Open recent in pages says it is on the desktop but it is not.

Multitasking not fluid - when a task is executing the others need to wait, like launch Excel 2004 and try clicking on the apple menu while itís launching

Random hangs and slowness even when typing

Force quit doesnít work so well.

At times Comman-Tab shows the other apps and selects them but will not switch spaces or even make that application come to the front. Also clicking the other apps in the dock same poor results. I need to F8 into spaces and the click on the thing I want.

Mail attachments when I save donít show up in the save like the used to. Attachements get dropped even though the check mark is on to keep them.

Safari no longer accesses some Javascript heavy sights that it used to

Hit F11 then click on spotlight - it is slid off the screen too

When switching spaces it needs to finish its graphical sliding before you can do something or else the user input is not accepted. Like switch apps via Command - Tab to iTunes and hit the spacebar to pause your song. The computer is too slow in the Spaces transition to accept and wonít even execute when the transition is complete. Or try switching to Pages and type a few letters it misses the first few. Could be problematic when switching back quick to make sure something is saved before moving on and it really doesnít get saved.

Software update need intervention in between, bring back the license agree etc. all up front.

Editing event in iCal without having to double click on it then click edit then click what to edit. Where did the side panel go?

After Software update performs and then says successful (or restart now option) going to a different space hides the popped up window and Apple-Tabbing back or clicking on Software Update in the dock does not revert back to the space with the window so you need to manually go through each space to find it to take action for Software Update to be happy. - Also with other apps when having a dialogue box up.

In column view and then spotlight in the window then hit back button it switches to list view instead of column view like I had it.

In icon view shift clicking does not select a range but acts like command clicking does.

The Pro Apps and Spaces donít like each other much windows in FCP moving to other spaces by themselves sometimes.

Oh and a lot of crashing apps today.

I did an upgrade install, and have since did an erase and install and these problems still exist.

I am running a Mac Pro with 4 GB RAM and over 100 GB free HD space on my primary drive that passed a stress test by the Apple Genii so hardware shouldnít be the problem. That and my 2 iMacs (both with intel) have the same problems.

Leopard has some bugs for sure but I figure the made up time with the new features has made it a wash so far so hereís to the benefits of the future.

ekdor
Jan 17, 2008, 01:22 AM
-

swissmann
Jan 17, 2008, 01:26 AM
To be fair to my bug list here are things that I don't know how I lived without (some more than others) :

Menu search
Automator recording
Sync dashboard with .Mac
Stacks - do want it merged with the list in Tiger
Sync Dock with .Mac
Spring loaded dock
Screen sharing
Icon preview
Path bar in finder window
Under the hood speed
iChat recording
Tabbed chat
iChat theater
Hide Local Video in iChat
Bonjour scanning
Data Detectors
Simple Mail Setup
Custom Stationary in Mail
Notes in Mail and .Mac sync
Network better in some respects
Preview image printing options
PDF manipulation
Quicklook
Tabbed bookmarks
Merge all windows in Safari
Spaces
Grammar check - (just because of this thread, and no I didnít check my grammar)
Scroll non active windows
Alex voiceover - for the kids
Google map integration mail etc.
And Iím working on setting up Time machine

ekdor
Jan 17, 2008, 01:33 AM
-

ekdor
Jan 17, 2008, 01:38 AM
-

Stridder44
Jan 17, 2008, 01:40 AM
I don't want to break my NDA but 10.5.2 has some minor issues remaining to be fixed. But I can tell you that the first 10.5.2 seed was full of issues but this one seems pretty stable and snappy so far. I'd expect a release within couple weeks for sure.


Good to hear.

MrCrowbar
Jan 17, 2008, 01:50 AM
My Exposť shortcurts often break. I can run the Exposť application to show all windows, but the F-Keys only work again after rebooting. This happens a lot and OSX is almost unusable for me without Exposť. Hope 10.5.2 fixes this.

le sacre
Jan 17, 2008, 02:18 AM
They shouldn't have removed list as an option but I do like stacks. Don't know why everyone is so down on it.

i'm down on it because i used dock folder hierarchical navigation all the damn time, and i never ever wind up using stacks, because it just doesn't seem useful. apart from the COMPLETELY LAME issue of how the stacks' appearances don't tell you which stack you're clicking on (unless you use the cool but inelegantly hacked solution of customized "put me first" icons), i have way too many items (mostly folders, and files with long names) in there for the grid view to give me any useful information. at all. i tried, but every time i clicked on a stack, i just stared at that undifferentiated, disorganized mess with all the file names truncated and not showing all the files in the first place, and just gave up.

i'm happy that HierarchicalDock showed up, but its access lag is kind of annoying, as is the inability to drag-and-drop items into the target folders.

so if they bring back list view, i will be a very happy user. i feel like the reintroduction of a stolen feature in a system upgrade should make me almost-appeased instead of happy, but certain really cool leopard features (plus the afore-mentioned hacks/add-ons, and have to mention xMenu here too) have mitigated my indignation.

le sacre
Jan 17, 2008, 02:23 AM
i love you because i did not even know about menu search until just now. thank you!

quicklook is really very wonderful and has definitely increased my efficiency.

scrolling inactive windows is something i had never thought about pre-leopard, but it is amazing! i now use it all the time, and it feels wonderfully natural. this has been a tremendous boost.

these two features (plus laziness, and add-on quasi-solutions) kept me from downgrading to tiger to get my hierarchical list view back.

To be fair to my bug list here are things that I don't know how I lived without (some more than others) :

Menu search
Automator recording
Sync dashboard with .Mac
Stacks - do want it merged with the list in Tiger
Sync Dock with .Mac
Spring loaded dock
Screen sharing
Icon preview
Path bar in finder window
Under the hood speed
iChat recording
Tabbed chat
iChat theater
Hide Local Video in iChat
Bonjour scanning
Data Detectors
Simple Mail Setup
Custom Stationary in Mail
Notes in Mail and .Mac sync
Network better in some respects
Preview image printing options
PDF manipulation
Quicklook
Tabbed bookmarks
Merge all windows in Safari
Spaces
Grammar check - (just because of this thread, and no I didnít check my grammar)
Scroll non active windows
Alex voiceover - for the kids
Google map integration mail etc.
And Iím working on setting up Time machine

bmk
Jan 17, 2008, 02:26 AM
I don't want to break my NDA...

You just did.

Manic Mouse
Jan 17, 2008, 02:36 AM
The multitouch probably requires something on the hardware end 2.

I'm sure it'll drift up the line 2 the MBPs pretty soon though.

I'm not so sure it does, my trackpad can tell the difference between one, two and three fingers being on it.

Attonine
Jan 17, 2008, 02:41 AM
The one bug which is driving me nuts is when using a bluetooth modem, it hangs when disconnecting. The only solution is to reboot, delete the network settings and modem, reconfigure them, and also reset my phone to factory settings. I get this several times a day!

kaiwai
Jan 17, 2008, 02:49 AM
You just did.

What specifics did he disclose? please, get off your high and mighty horse. Some of us don't actually care. He isn't exactly providing links to leaked versions or anything.

Gloor
Jan 17, 2008, 03:43 AM
I think that 10.5.2. will be with us in next two weeks. The reason is simple 8800GT that was recently added as BTO option for Mac Pros makes a shipping order delayed by 3-5 weeks. Some people already have shipping dates around 11th february so if the speculation is right (that 8800GT is waiting for 10.5.2.) then we will see it in next two weeks. Lets hope :)

appie57
Jan 17, 2008, 04:04 AM
Soon after updating to Leopard my hard drive went from 25 GB to 1.91. Has anyone noticed this? My iDisk says it has 144.47 GB with 1.88 free. This has got to be a bug! If it is I really hope 10.5.2 fixes this.

I had same problem on one of the MBP's. There is a KB article on idisk syncing. Switch off idisk syncing, restart, remove Filesync folder in trash, restart, switch idisk sycing on again. It seems to work for me.

Still, there is something not right there, I hope they correct it with 10.5.2 (and the MBP keyboard issues, like ELP! and occasionally lights of caps lock and num lock burning)

eugenio01
Jan 17, 2008, 04:49 AM
I am wondering if there is a possibility of the enhanced gestures being incorporated into the 10.5.2 update. (I could only hope!). In the article in 'The Age' newspaper, Melbourne, Australia (http://www.theage.com.au/news/articles/apple-reveals-tiny-new-laptop/2008/01/16/1200419835156.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1), Steve:apple:s quoted as saying, "We learned from the iPhone and put it in our other computers." If I read it right, he is referring to more than 1 current machine, and 'put' sounds like it is in the past tense meaning it has already been done, as he could have said 'will be putting' if he only meant future machines ... Am I reading too much into it?!:rolleyes: I figure that if the electronics of my MBP can detect more than 1 finger in contact, surely the gestures will then be purely a software issue? I so need a 'middle button-'click and hold' action. Anyone care to deliberate?

kaiwai
Jan 17, 2008, 04:56 AM
I think that 10.5.2. will be with us in next two weeks. The reason is simple 8800GT that was recently added as BTO option for Mac Pros makes a shipping order delayed by 3-5 weeks. Some people already have shipping dates around 11th february so if the speculation is right (that 8800GT is waiting for 10.5.2.) then we will see it in next two weeks. Lets hope :)

Aren't you a smart little cookie :D

You're probably correct; I'd say 1-2 weeks to finish the update, then say a week or so to produce the custom restore DVD with the 10.5.2 merged :D

juanm
Jan 17, 2008, 05:03 AM
Sorry if it's been mentioned.
Since Mac laptops already have mutlitouch touchpads... is there a posibility that with 10.5.2 we all get the same implementation we've seen in the MBA (pinching, turning...)?

balahir
Jan 17, 2008, 05:33 AM
Does anyone have the following 10.5.1 annoying issue:

In a window containing many folders (in folder view), you scroll down until you find a specific folder. You open that, do perhaps some editing, and then go back with the Back arrow. I would then expect the first window to remember the position to which I have scrolled down to, but it is always scrolled to its uppermost position. Annoying...

aswitcher
Jan 17, 2008, 05:38 AM
I wonder if 10.5.2 will give us remote dvd drive access. That would be pretty cool.

Oh-es-Ten
Jan 17, 2008, 05:42 AM
As a very (former) happy Leopard user, I am now hoping for 10.5.2 to solve a very irritating new problem...

I had Leopard running on my White Macbook (non-SR), but got upgraded to the latest MBP SR, and now most of the time when it wakes I have no trackpad and keyboard input. Variations of this seem to be very common on Apple's forums and a re-install does not help either...

Apple are ready to replace my machine, but I can safely say this is not a hardware issue. The keyboard and trackpad will work fine all day and night, as long as you don't close the lid for sleep...

Such an apparent simple fix somewhere - I do hope this is squashed for good in 10.5.2... :mad:

eugenio01
Jan 17, 2008, 05:43 AM
My iMac G5 1st Generation has been upgraded and seems to have display issues. There are what i can only describe as lines of static running across the screen. Sometimes only a few intermittent and sometimes the entire screen is affected. Also at some stage my removable media drive has stopped being able to complete burning a disk, reporting a hardware error each time, part way through the process.

One bug that drives me nuts is Spotlight results which cant be sorted by label or file size, and i really don't care when a file was last opened! I'd like to sort by date created or modified (last saved). Also, iWork files and PDF files have strange file type names. This issue really makes this version of Spotlight seem like a Microsoft release. What was wrong with the previous Spotlight?

kaiwai
Jan 17, 2008, 05:49 AM
My iMac G5 1st Generation has been upgraded and seems to have display issues. There are what i can only describe as lines of static running across the screen. Sometimes only a few intermittent and sometimes the entire screen is affected. Also at some stage my removable media drive has stopped being able to complete burning a disk, reporting a hardware error each time, part way through the process.

One bug that drives me nuts is Spotlight results which cant be sorted by label or file size, and i really don't care when a file was last opened! I'd like to sort by date created or modified (last saved). Also, iWork files and PDF files have strange file type names. This issue really makes this version of Spotlight seem like a Microsoft release. What was wrong with the previous Spotlight?

I wonder whether it would be possible to plugin the $99 USB external super drive into the router and share the dvd over a whole network.

Neo110503
Jan 17, 2008, 06:54 AM
Are you by any chance referring to AirDisk. Because I've had trouble getting it working recently. But then I tried again today and it just worked fine. No trouble yet. Will see in a few days I guess.

Are you talking about TM with an air disk? I thought that they got rid of that feature and have replaced it with TC, instead of making it a free feature part of leopard and TM they make a new product we have to buy.:eek:

_bnkr612
Jan 17, 2008, 07:11 AM
Let's hope they remedy the terrible connection issues the Airport Extreme is experiencing with Mac Pros.

I can't receive a single for more than two minutes, and nothing is obstructing it! Very, very annoying for a web designer.

Come on with it, Apple.

le sacre
Jan 17, 2008, 08:03 AM
in finder windows, after i eject external drives, i often wind up with two copies of my internal hard drive listed in the "devices" section of the sidebar. they behave identically. doesn't seem to mess anything up, but it is pretty strange.

guzhogi
Jan 17, 2008, 08:09 AM
Would it be possible that current mbs and mb pros have the capability of multitouch and that will be unlocked with the 10.5.2 update. That would make sense since the mba won't ship for the next 2 weeks. It may be that we will see the 10.5.2 update within the next 2 weeks along with new mb pros.

Probably going to be $100 or something to be able to get the software, if it is just a software patch.

Hard Nard
Jan 17, 2008, 08:24 AM
I've been relatively happy with 10.5 so far except for one irritating problem: when changing desktop picture in System Prefs it will often hang and not show all of the images in the folder. If you change image folders it sometimes will hang and not show any of the images.

Anybody else seeing this problem?

rosalindavenue
Jan 17, 2008, 08:30 AM
Leopard's Parental controls are really screwed up. They knock out the dashboard widgets in other user accounts (Apple has a page on this one), they depopulate the dock on the controlled account from time to time, and they don't let kids use "webkinz" in Safari (the last problem is apparently due to Webkins using a whole bunch of different servers and domains, and is no fault of Apple's (there is a big thread on this in Apple's forums); however there has to be a 75% correlation between kids who need parental controls and kids on Webkinz.

Probably the main reason I bought an imac was so my kids could use it with parental controls; they are broken. I do realize that the best parental control is a big screen on a desktop in a family room (the other reason I bought an imac), but I'd like for this heavily advertised "feature" to work.

hagjohn
Jan 17, 2008, 08:46 AM
stockholders


Fortune Magazine (http://gowest.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/01/17/apple-looks-pretty-cheap/?source=yahoo_quote)

Apple looks pretty cheap

Itís been a couple days since what has now been a widely panned dud of a keynote speech by Steve Jobs at Macworld. No ďone more thing Ö Ē No breathtaking surprises. No stunning celebrity. (Randy Newman? Come on.)

I was in the audience, and I thought the lower-key keynote was just fine. Itís true that Jobs blew no one away. Top honchos from Twentieth Century Fox and Intel (CEO) wonít wow the crowd. Movie rentals canít compare with the reinvention of an industry. And while Appleís (AAPL) new ultrathin notebook looks fabulous, itís not priced for the mass market. (And will people pay $1800 and up for a device with no Ethernet port? These are the types of topics geeks can endlessly debate.)

But so what? After a year like Apple had last year, itíd be silly to try to blow people away at Macworld. Perhaps it was better to lower expectations. Iím guessing that whether intentionally or not, thatís what Jobs did on Tuesday. And for what itís worth, while Randy Newman isnít as sexy as John Mayer or Kanye West, past Macworld performers, his two songs were really good.

The faithfulís disappointment had nothing on Wall Streetís, though. Appleís shares have now fallen $19, or almost 11%, since Mondayís closing price. This will seem confusing to market watchers of the amateur variety as well as the pros. No one has answers, only guesses. Citi analyst Richard Gardner, for example, called Tuesdayís stock behavior a ďtypical seasonal pullback.Ē His explication covers all the bases:

While we are surprised by the magnitude of todayís pullback in Apple shares following an as-expected Macworld keynote, we believe the reaction reflects the view that todayís product announcements will do little to help Apple during [the first half of calendar-year 2008]. The products either represent minor enhancements to existing products (i.e., software updates for iPhone and iPod touch), niche products (i.e., the new ultraportable MacBook Air) or new services that will drive iPod and AppleTV sales over the long-term but contribute little or nothing to operating income during 2008 (i.e., iTunes movie rentals).

Trying to understand the selloff almost isnít worth the effort. Apple is one of those stocks that defies explanation. It was equally tough to understand is recent high of almost $203.

So focus instead on how the company is valued. At $160 a share, Apple trades for about 31 times expected earnings for its year that ends in September. Analysts expect Apple to grow earnings this year about 31%, an astounding growth rate for a company this size. Next year they see 25% growth. In other words, at its current multiple, Apple is getting little or no premium to the market, despite the iPhone working out to be a bigger than expected seller and the Macintosh picking up speed. (Google (GOOG), by the way, at $616, is off 18% from its high. It trades for about 30 times expected 2008 earnings and is expected to grow by 33% Ö Iím just saying Ö )

Apple reports earnings next week. It has a habit of underpromising and overdelivering. It isnít the expensive stock it used to be.



Back on topic... I would like the little bugs fixed. It's been since October now and my MacBook still goes to sleep and won't wake back up without shutting the lid and mail is almost virtually impossible to use at times.. etc.. it's the small things that can really drive people nuts.

morespce54
Jan 17, 2008, 09:14 AM
I hope they will fix that buggy Mail app...

AppleMojo
Jan 17, 2008, 09:15 AM
If the wireless bug ain't fixed i'm gonna kill someone

Do they allow MacBooks in prison?

Daveoc64
Jan 17, 2008, 09:17 AM
Do they allow MacBooks in prison?

You could probably sneak a MacBook Air in without them noticing!

AppleMojo
Jan 17, 2008, 09:24 AM
My 2.16 Ghz Macbook crashes & locks up Constantly under 10.5.1, just using Safari & Mail and Adium, I have 2 GB of RAM as well !!

I have re-installed etc no joy, I went back to Tiger for 2 weeks and not 1 crash. However Time Machine saves me so much hassle, as I am a consultant I need to make sure I have all my data backed up, just in case.

I expect more from Apple :mad:

Not to poke a stick in your already festering angry wound;

But I thought I'd post that Leopard hasn't had any real trouble here; I've just been lucky I guess and haven't experienced any of the recent problems with Leopard client.

When you get a bunch of frustrated people all in the same rum (<- get it?! ha) the issues look more widespread than they really may be. My hope is that people are truly reporting these issues and Apple knows about them to get them fixed.

V.K.
Jan 17, 2008, 09:25 AM
I've been relatively happy with 10.5 so far except for one irritating problem: when changing desktop picture in System Prefs it will often hang and not show all of the images in the folder. If you change image folders it sometimes will hang and not show any of the images.

Anybody else seeing this problem?

Yes, I do. It's pretty annoying but you can get around it if you choose a different folder for desktop pictures and then choose the original one.

0racle
Jan 17, 2008, 09:27 AM
Battery life on my MacBook sucks after upgrading to Leopard and Leopard seems to have no idea about life left in it. For instance it reports 20 minutes life left and 13% battery or something and turns off moments later. I used to be able to run it to 6%, the icon would go red as it got low and the timer was accurate.

Logging on using Active Directory credentials takes forever.

So far, those have been my only problems and I have my fingers crossed for fixes soon.

DiamondMac
Jan 17, 2008, 09:37 AM
Please, Please, PLEASE fix Stability in Safari and overall

It is killing me on both machines

Battery life on my MacBook sucks after upgrading to Leopard and Leopard seems to have no idea about life left in it. For instance it reports 20 minutes life left and 13% battery or something and turns off moments later. I used to be able to run it to 6%, the icon would go red as it got low and the timer was accurate.

Logging on using Active Directory credentials takes forever.

So far, those have been my only problems and I have my fingers crossed for fixes soon.
My MBP somewhat has had that issue but it gets right below 20% and BOOM...done

Now, it will go to 5-6 and die which is fine

TheSpaz
Jan 17, 2008, 10:25 AM
I'm ready for 10.5.2... I want lists in Stacks!

bacaramac
Jan 17, 2008, 10:27 AM
I am guessing that with the release of Time Capsule they will have to launch 10.5.2 with the Network drive issue fix.

I could be wrong, but isn't TC just a built in Network drive? Same as plugging my USB HD into my current AEBS Gigabit?

Let's hope so, and then I can finally have all 4 of my HD's on the network. Please.

xUKHCx
Jan 17, 2008, 10:32 AM
I am guessing that with the release of Time Capsule they will have to launch 10.5.2 with the Network drive issue fix.

I could be wrong, but isn't TC just a built in Network drive? Same as plugging my USB HD into my current AEBS Gigabit?

Let's hope so, and then I can finally have all 4 of my HD's on the network. Please.


Check the specs of Time Capsule, everything can be done with 10.5.1 nothing requires 10.5.2. That doesn't exclude them fixing your problem in 10.5.2 though


For backup using Time Machine - Mac computer with Mac OS X v10.5.1 or later

For setup and administration Mac with Mac OS X v10.4 or later, CD drive, Ethernet or wireless networking capability

For wireless client access - Mac with AirPort or AirPort Extreme wireless capability

For shared printing with a USB printer - USB printer, Mac with Mac OS X v10.2.7 or later

For AirPort Disk with a USB hard drive - Mac with Mac OS X v10.4.8 or later

bacaramac
Jan 17, 2008, 10:37 AM
Check the specs of Time Capsule, everything can be done with 10.5.1 nothing requires 10.5.2. That doesn't exclude them fixing your problem in 10.5.2 though

My point, they hopefully fix this issue with network drives in 10.5.2, but say it works with 10.5.1. When you call apple to troubleshoot why it doesn't work on 10.5.1. The first thing they ask you if you have updated to the current release of Leopard. This is assuming a fix comes in 10.5.2 and that TC works the same way my USB HD does.

Mac OS X Ocelot
Jan 17, 2008, 10:40 AM
who cares we want the MBP

Who cares about the MBP, I want a properly functioning OS.

AppleMojo
Jan 17, 2008, 10:52 AM
Who cares about the MBP, I want a properly functioning OS.

What a selfish world we live in. Who cares about Air, MPB or Leopard... I want quad 30" Cinemas!

:eek:

darngooddesign
Jan 17, 2008, 11:06 AM
For the people reporting battery issues, have you tried calibrating your battery?

seashellz2
Jan 17, 2008, 11:17 AM
10.5.0 has some kind of curse on it.
Gandalf was able to tame it somewhat with the potion of 10.5.1.

But I will wait for in integrated RETAIL copy of 10.5.2
after all, in Masonic geometry "2" is avery important number....

How long does it usually take before download vs. retail disc copies of a release...?

xUKHCx
Jan 17, 2008, 11:20 AM
10.5.0 has some kind of curse on it.
Gandalf was able to tame it somewhat with the potion of 10.5.1.

But I will wait for in integrated RETAIL copy of 10.5.2
after all, in Masonic geometry "2" is avery important number....

How long does it usually take before download vs. retail disc copies of a release...?

Just because apple update 10.5 to 10.5.2 doesn't mean they will update their retail discs of 10.5.1 to 10.5.2.

With Tiger they only update the retails discs from 10.4.0 to 10.4.3 to 10.4.6 and possibly another one.

So you will most likely get 10.5.1 and then download the update to 10.5.2 I you come to Leopard upon the release of 10.5.2

EagerDragon
Jan 17, 2008, 11:21 AM
Anyone has the dirt as to what is in 10.5.2?

Before I get excited, I like to know what I am getting excited about.:)

seashellz2
Jan 17, 2008, 11:35 AM
Just because apple update 10.5 to 10.5.2 doesn't mean they will update their retail discs of 10.5.1 to 10.5.2.

With Tiger they only update the retails discs from 10.4.0 to 10.4.3 to 10.4.6 and possibly another one.

So you will most likely get 10.5.1 and then download the update to 10.5.2 I you come to Leopard upon the release of 10.5.2
--
My experience is that they do-especailly with a major update like 10.5.2
besides, I regularly check in at FRY's Mac section.

They didnt release a 10.4.11 disc or even 10.4.10

MrCrowbar
Jan 17, 2008, 11:43 AM
For the people reporting battery issues, have you tried calibrating your battery?

Lots of times. I can run it down so that it either goes to sleep or suddenly cuts the power. Let it off for for a day, then I can switch it on again, getting half an hour on battery. Then again half an hour the next day without recharging at all. Seems like that battery can't deliver once it's gotten warm. I can get my 4 hours total this way, but not in one streak. Here's my battery health:

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/200/picture1mz4.png

Note: That's my replacement battery, the original blew up (swelling up, flashing magsafe light, still kinda working tho) in Arpril 2007 when my Macbook still had warranty. I ordered a battery from fastmac.com, but that one didn't charge or discharge and didn't really fit into the case either. Sent it back and waiting for the replacement.

Having below 1 hour of battery combined with sudden power loss when it's depleted sucks big time.

SiliconAddict
Jan 17, 2008, 12:05 PM
Does anyone know if they are working on WIFI with 10.5.2? I nuked Leopard and OS X in general about 5 weeks ago and installed Vista with RC of SP1. This isn't a troll post....I'd dead serious when I say its 10x more reliable now. I'm not exagerating when I say that something with 10.5.1 or one of the latter patches FUBARed my Mac. It kept dropping the connection to my router even though the system said it was still connected, still had an IP address and the router saw it. It isn't my router either since my ThinkPad's connection was still working on it. The only resolution was to either reboot the system but more often then not turning off WIFI and turning it back on fixed the problem. I'm serious when I say that in the end before I nuked OS X every half hour I had to do this. Then there were the freezes. I could CONSISTENTLY cause OS X to freeze when I went from one network to another and changed location settings. So WIFI to WIFI, change location....freeze. WIFI to Ethernet, change location....freeze. I took it into the Apple store and explained everything. They ran diagnostics on it and then had me reinstall the OS. Still had problems.
Vista though...With SP1....much better. Standby\Sleep is instantanious, file transfers seem to have been resolved. Overall its been a heck of a lot more plesant of an expierience then Leopard has been. Frankly if it wasn't for some of the outstanding apps that can be found on OS X I would have sold my MacBook Pro months ago. I haven't been this pissed off with an OS since the days of Windows 9x.

PS- And I refuse to go back to that POS that is tiger. I have serious issues with Tiger and network shares. I lost count the number of times I came back from sleep when I was away from my home network, went to finder, oops forgot to disconnect the mount to my home network, hit the eject button, and BAM....beachball infinite for Finder. Leopard in that regard kicks tiger’s tail. It is much more fault torrent with shares.

surfsnow
Jan 17, 2008, 12:06 PM
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

If the wireless bug ain't fixed i'm gonna kill someone

I have Apple's Technical Support on speed dial, and ready to call them AS SOON AS they release 10.5.2. There is a chance that the Airport driver problem won't be fixed on this patch. I've learnt to expect less from Apple...

Please FIX some obvious bugs:
1. KP in the Airport driver
2. The "Magical", one item in trash can-->secure delete-->3 items to empty-->hangs after 2 items

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Manic Mouse
Jan 17, 2008, 12:16 PM
It would be nice if we got things like the multi-touch trackpad support and remote disc for all Macs in 10.5.2. They're nifty little features and I don't think the multi-touch requires different hardware (since we're already using some multi-touch on our current macs with two finger scrolling).

SiliconAddict
Jan 17, 2008, 12:27 PM
:mad::mad::mad::mad:



I've learnt to expect less from Apple...



And this is why I'm considering going back to Dell. I expected better from Apple. My expectations aren't nearly as high with Dell. I expect to have to fix my own crap...heck I expect crap from them...
Apple? Heck after hearing the wonderful experience that people have with Macs I expected everything to "just work". Bull crap. I've had nothing but problems and I really don't know why. It’s been a struggle since day one. And every time I think things have simmered down and the system is working fine some crap like the computer taking 3 minutes to come back from sleep occurs. It only happened once though and in front of someone I needed to show something too. Very embarrassing. If there is a problem with the hardware its with replacement hardware since November of '06 Apple replaced my original MBP outright. So this would be a second defective unit if this is the case. I'm almost past the point of being angry and almost....almost to the point where I'm resolved to the fact that OS X is a POS or just hates me. Many people have problems with Windows but none with OS X. Maybe it’s because I'm a geek but I had almost no problems with Windows and nothing but with OS X. The reason I switched was because I abhor product activation and really liked many of the apps on OS X. But if it’s that vs. not wanting to put my head through the screen in frustration.....

inkswamp
Jan 17, 2008, 12:48 PM
Bring it on already, Apple. Overall, Leopard has gradually won me over (wasn't too thrilled at first) but there are some serious bugs in their active directory integration that has been causing me some major headaches at work. I know this is not something the average user encounters, but it's one of those things that causes you to scratch your head and wonder just how serious Apple is about getting Macs into business settings. I'm using it on a trial basis and while the networking in Leopard is light-years ahead of Tiger, the integration with AD leaves much to be desired. As it stands, I can't even remotely consider deploying Leopard where I work--no chance in hell. I'll grant Apple a reasonable grace period on this because no business in its right mind upgrades its production machines immediately on the release of a new operating system, but seriously, when it comes down to it, no version of OS X should ever ship with the kind of buggy implementation of the AD plug-in that Leopard has.

kps
Jan 17, 2008, 01:03 PM
Probably the main reason I bought an imac was so my kids could use it with parental controls

Psst, hey kidz, press Command-S when the computer starts up and then

rm -rf '/Library/Application Support/Parental Controls'
exit

skyrider007
Jan 17, 2008, 01:07 PM
snip

For real??? It doesn't show on my software update yet!!!

brand
Jan 17, 2008, 01:10 PM
This is 10.5.2(9C16), the latest build.

TheSpaz
Jan 17, 2008, 01:24 PM
snip

Anyone can do that easily by editing SystemVersion.plist in System/Library/CoreServices/SystemVersion.plist with PropertyListEditor in Developer Tools.

SheriffParker
Jan 17, 2008, 01:50 PM
Anyone can do that easily by editing SystemVersion.plist in System/Library/CoreServices/SystemVersion.plist with PropertyListEditor in Developer Tools.

yeah or with a basic knowledge of photoshop.

Caris
Jan 17, 2008, 01:54 PM
10.5.2 can't come soon enough.

imwoblin
Jan 17, 2008, 01:58 PM
Makes me wonder if Apple will include both Remote Disc feature (From MacBook Air) and Time Capsule on 10.5.2.
One can only hope.....

brand
Jan 17, 2008, 02:09 PM
Deleted by user

imwoblin
Jan 17, 2008, 02:12 PM
snip

So can I use this feature on my MBP? or is it just for the MBA? It would be excellent if I could use the optical drive of any of my other 3 wireless macs with this feature.

inkswamp
Jan 17, 2008, 02:51 PM
I way ahead of you guys. :D

http://home.comcast.net/~inkswamp1/osxversion.jpg

TheSpaz
Jan 17, 2008, 03:04 PM
I way ahead of you guys. :D

snip

Hey, I didn't realize that they released 11.1 back in 2007.

r.j.s
Jan 17, 2008, 03:28 PM
I dont know for sure - as I don't have one, but isn't showing off all these details and screenshots of 10.5.2 against somebody's NDA?

budward
Jan 17, 2008, 03:32 PM
FIrst of, the new mac pro penryns are shipped with a different build than the public available 10.5.1. However, the reason why the new NVIdia adds 3 - 5 weeks shipping time is because 10.5.2 is not out yet and contains the drivers for the NV 8800 as well as a ton of bug fixes.

The new mac pros cannot use anything newer than the build that ships with it.

so if you buy one that has leopard client and expect to install a previously purchased leopard server and apply all recent updates you are still SOL. It will not work. Especially the nasty date/time bug where one minute is really 55.2 seconds ... it will break a lot of apps. 10.5.2 surely will fix this issue as well.

If you ask me, apple was not ready tp push leopard out to the public in Oct but since jobs said it would be ready they pushed it out anyway.. 10.5.2 is a massive update and really should've been 10.5.0 GM Oh well I am not complaining.. my mac pro 3.0 penryns smokes!!!! well worth the wait.

Rotary8
Jan 17, 2008, 03:35 PM
I'm on a macbook and so far, Leopard's been pretty solid. I only had the keyboard lock up once, which was prior to 10.5.1 (which fixed the keyboard issue).

The only thing I look forward to with the new update is fixing my airport.

brand
Jan 17, 2008, 03:45 PM
I dont know for sure - as I don't have one, but isn't showing off all these details and screenshots of 10.5.2 against somebody's NDA?

Maybe your right, fixed

SiliconAddict
Jan 17, 2008, 05:23 PM
To be fair to my bug list here are things that I don't know how I lived without (some more than others) :

Menu search
Automator recording
Sync dashboard with .Mac
Stacks - do want it merged with the list in Tiger
Sync Dock with .Mac
Spring loaded dock
Screen sharing
Icon preview
Path bar in finder window
Under the hood speed
iChat recording
Tabbed chat
iChat theater
Hide Local Video in iChat
Bonjour scanning
Data Detectors
Simple Mail Setup
Custom Stationary in Mail
Notes in Mail and .Mac sync
Network better in some respects
Preview image printing options
PDF manipulation
Quicklook
Tabbed bookmarks
Merge all windows in Safari
Spaces
Grammar check - (just because of this thread, and no I didnít check my grammar)
Scroll non active windows
Alex voiceover - for the kids
Google map integration mail etc.
And Iím working on setting up Time machine

There is a term for your post. Its called enabling. And there are FAR to many people in the Apple community who do it and as a result it's why Apple continues to time and again put out insanely gre....buggy code. And no. MS isn't any better.

gregdig
Jan 17, 2008, 05:57 PM
The new mac pros cannot use anything newer than the build that ships with it.

Boy, I sure hope you meant anything OLDER, not anything NEWER, because that would really suck.

surfsnow
Jan 17, 2008, 06:56 PM
And this is why I'm considering going back to Dell. I expected better from Apple. My expectations aren't nearly as high with Dell. I expect to have to fix my own crap...heck I expect crap from them...
Apple? Heck after hearing the wonderful experience that people have with Macs I expected everything to "just work". Bull crap. .....

I actually told one of the mac user (@ work) NOT to upgrade to Leopard and stick with Tiger for now... at least until the Airport KP crap is fixed....

:mad:x10x5

mckyvlle
Jan 17, 2008, 08:42 PM
My Exposť shortcurts often break. I can run the Exposť application to show all windows, but the F-Keys only work again after rebooting. This happens a lot and OSX is almost unusable for me without Exposť. Hope 10.5.2 fixes this.

Similar problem here, but happens with mouse buttons.

I use a Logitech MX518, I bind Expose and Spaces to buttons 4, 5, and 6 on the mouse (thumb buttons and the 'show window' on top of the mouse). Whenever I restart the Dock, and sometimes randomly, Spaces will forget the activation button. I have to rebind and then logout/login to get Spaces mouse activation back.

MrCrowbar
Jan 17, 2008, 08:54 PM
Similar problem here, but happens with mouse buttons.

I use a Logitech MX518, I bind Expose and Spaces to buttons 4, 5, and 6 on the mouse (thumb buttons and the 'show window' on top of the mouse). Whenever I restart the Dock, and sometimes randomly, Spaces will forget the activation button. I have to rebind and then logout/login to get Spaces mouse activation back.

Well, Exposť dies on my mouse buttons too but I guess that's because they're mapped to the F-keys. My Wireless keyboard won't do Exposť either. It's interesting that resetting the Dock fixes it sometimes. It's almost impossible for me to use my Mac without Exposť which I find interesting and kinda frightening.

Since the iTunes update (Macworld), iTunes is no longer a signed app and I get the same thing as when starting Skype, which annoys me:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/221/picture1qh6.png

It's really in my firewall's allow list. Most of the time the firewall works fine and I like how it tells me when some apps want to phone home. But right now, I thinking of switching it off more and more...

S600MBUSA
Jan 17, 2008, 09:53 PM
Depending on the reviews that come out after release, 10.5.2 may just be the update that coaxes me to upgrade to Leopard. Though I wouldn't at all be averse to waiting longer.

Kaptajn Haddock
Jan 18, 2008, 12:58 AM
Boy do I hope this update will fix the 'first keystroke often not registered' bug on many MacBook Pros.

See here for more info:

http://petergabriel.dk/mbp.html

akac
Jan 18, 2008, 01:16 AM
I am guessing that with the release of Time Capsule they will have to launch 10.5.2 with the Network drive issue fix.

I could be wrong, but isn't TC just a built in Network drive? Same as plugging my USB HD into my current AEBS Gigabit?

Let's hope so, and then I can finally have all 4 of my HD's on the network. Please.

The problem is not in Leopard. Its in the AEBS. So Time Capsule has the fix required (support for Leopard enhancements to HFS+) while your AEBS does not.

Apple has to make an AEBS firmware update to fix your issue. And I hope they do.

akac
Jan 18, 2008, 01:18 AM
Does anyone know if they are working on WIFI with 10.5.2? I nuked Leopard and OS X in general about 5 weeks ago and installed Vista with RC of SP1. This isn't a troll post....I'd dead serious when I say its 10x more reliable now. I'm not exagerating when I say that something with 10.5.1 or one of the latter patches FUBARed my Mac. It kept dropping the connection to my router even though the system said it was still connected, still had an IP address and the router saw it. It isn't my router either since my ThinkPad's connection was still working on it. The only resolution was to either reboot the system but more often then not turning off WIFI and turning it back on fixed the problem. I'm serious when I say that in the end before I nuked OS X every half hour I had to do this. Then there were the freezes. I could CONSISTENTLY cause OS X to freeze when I went from one network to another and changed location settings. So WIFI to WIFI, change location....freeze. WIFI to Ethernet, change location....freeze. I took it into the Apple store and explained everything. They ran diagnostics on it and then had me reinstall the OS. Still had problems.
Vista though...With SP1....much better. Standby\Sleep is instantanious, file transfers seem to have been resolved. Overall its been a heck of a lot more plesant of an expierience then Leopard has been. Frankly if it wasn't for some of the outstanding apps that can be found on OS X I would have sold my MacBook Pro months ago. I haven't been this pissed off with an OS since the days of Windows 9x.

PS- And I refuse to go back to that POS that is tiger. I have serious issues with Tiger and network shares. I lost count the number of times I came back from sleep when I was away from my home network, went to finder, oops forgot to disconnect the mount to my home network, hit the eject button, and BAM....beachball infinite for Finder. Leopard in that regard kicks tigerís tail. It is much more fault torrent with shares.

Were you using VMWare Fusion at all? What you describe is what one sees using Bridged networking under Leopard and VMWare Fusion.

Rbh
Jan 18, 2008, 06:39 AM
I'm rather hoping that SMB will be actually fixed. It was touted as such in 10.5.1, but that patch made no difference to the random manner in which my sharing Windows PCs appeared in Finder (even with the Windows Firewall turned off entirely).

It's hardly a show stopper but (for me, at least) it's annoying. I don't want to have to find my XP box's IP and connect from my MB manually.

Daveoc64
Jan 18, 2008, 09:46 AM
I'm rather hoping that SMB will be actually fixed. It was touted as such in 10.5.1, but that patch made no difference to the random manner in which my sharing Windows PCs appeared in Finder (even with the Windows Firewall turned off entirely).

It's hardly a show stopper but (for me, at least) it's annoying. I don't want to have to find my XP box's IP and connect from my MB manually.

Yeah, SMB is pretty random.

I just reboot the Mac to get my Windows PCs to show - hardly convenient?

cbrain
Jan 18, 2008, 09:49 AM
I'm really looking forward to this update; installing updates is something I really enjoy doing.

eugenio01
Jan 18, 2008, 10:15 AM
My iMac G5 1st Generation has been upgraded and seems to have display issues. There are what i can only describe as lines of static running across the screen. Sometimes only a few intermittent and sometimes the entire screen is affected. Also at some stage my removable media drive has stopped being able to complete burning a disk, reporting a hardware error each time, part way through the process.

One bug that drives me nuts is Spotlight results which cant be sorted by label or file size, and i really don't care when a file was last opened! I'd like to sort by date created or modified (last saved). Also, iWork files and PDF files have strange file type names. This issue really makes this version of Spotlight seem like a Microsoft release. What was wrong with the previous Spotlight?

i just tried playing with display prefs and it seems like colorsync recalibrating of the monitor got rid of the static. lets see how long it lasts. Its strange that a software calibration would 'cure' it.

dr_lha
Jan 18, 2008, 12:26 PM
FIrst of, the new mac pro penryns are shipped with a different build than the public available 10.5.1.

Almost all Macs seem to ship with a version of the OS newer than the current version. I got a Mac Pro back in October that had a version of Mac OS with a build number somewhere between 10.4.10 and 10.4.11. Its pretty common for Apple to do this.

gmanrique
Jan 18, 2008, 03:24 PM
That was my though after the keynote. And, maybe not just multi-touch trackpads but the whole thing with Time Machine not supporting USB drives attached to Airport Extreme stations. I think they fixed this and will be part of 10.5.2 (and an airport extreme base firmware upgrade), but they are waiting for the Mac Book Air and Time Capsule to be released. If they do this, it would be a nice 'top secret feature'. (Let's not argue about the whole: 'were there, or weren't there secret features' :) )

At least one can hope.

Would it be possible that current mbs and mb pros have the capability of multitouch and that will be unlocked with the 10.5.2 update. That would make sense since the mba won't ship for the next 2 weeks. It may be that we will see the 10.5.2 update within the next 2 weeks along with new mb pros.

Luis Ortega
Jan 18, 2008, 03:30 PM
I got a Mac Pro back in October that had a version of Mac OS with a build number somewhere between 10.4.10 and 10.4.11.

What exactly is between 10.4.10 and 10.4.11?

maverick808
Jan 18, 2008, 03:31 PM
What exactly is between 10.4.10 and 10.4.11?

Exactly, x, where x is greater than 10.4.10 and x is less than 10.4.11. :)

gmanrique
Jan 18, 2008, 03:34 PM
/Who honestly gives a flip about iTunes movie rentals?

Well, I know we expect Apple to focus on computers but there is something else in the air, and that is coming with videos and the Apple TV. Apple, with no real support from hollywood, using a lousy format, has sold more movies (7m) than Blue Ray (6m) or HD-DVD (2,5), and both formats started to sell movies a couple of months before Apple, and bundle movies by packs with each player.

With the iTunes movie rentals, we are in for another huge year from iTunes. Hopefully they will add movie sales (in HD as well and from all the new studios) as well as DRM-free music from all the big four. (these 4 by the way, will soon realize that it is their loss really not selling in iTunes. At the end Apple keeps selling iPods by millions, no matter (well, almost) where the music is coming from. And it is proven that people like the iTunes store better than any other one out there.

gmanrique
Jan 18, 2008, 03:36 PM
do people complain that a sedan does not allow them to carry stuff like a pick up truck does?

They are different products for different markets.

Great little portable, but when you need a Macbook Pro for work only a Macbook Pro is capable enough to do the really big jobs. Editing, rendering, etc.

nvbrit
Jan 19, 2008, 12:24 AM
Something a few other people have touched upon is what version of Leopard the Macbook Air is running, it appears it is running 10.5.1 however this is obviously a customized version of Leopard as it has the new trackpad gestures preference pane and remote disk built into the OS. So I am wondering are these extra patches that are added to Leopard exclusively for Macbook Air or are these options already in the version of Leopard we are all running on our regular Macbook's and Macbook Pro's? I am wondering whether we already have these features but they are currently locked, and only unlock when Leopard recognizes that it's running on a MBA?

Pat H
Jan 19, 2008, 12:30 AM
Boy, I sure hope you meant anything OLDER, not anything NEWER, because that would really suck.

haha, I was thinking the same thing. The new pros better be able to run new versions of OS X or I'm returning it tomorrow :D

But this update can't some soon enough. I'm supposed to be starting on a paid editing job and just ordered Premier Pro CS3 to do it, but apparently it's still buggy in 10.5.1 (supposed to be fixed in .2).

ben2umbc
Jan 19, 2008, 12:55 AM
Personally, I see no issue with :apple: getting into the movie rental business. Seeing as how popular iTunes is, it will probably be very successful. What does that mean for the more 'aficionado' types? (ie, those of us who are actually involved in the Apple community) Well my guess is cash-flow, and profit for Apple and its shareholders (not me unless its in my 401k). And for us that means that Apple should have no problem putting money into R&D and acquisitions of companies such as Fingerworks which should help keep them innovative and on the cutting edge of technology.

As for multi-touch on existing platforms - my feeling is that its entirely feasible that in either 10.5.2 or a later firmware upgrade for keyboards/trackpads will introduce this technology beyond the Air. I believe this because my trackpad knows when I am using one finger, and it knows when I am using two fingers. It also knows when I am using more than two fingers, because it does not respond.

It makes sense for Apple to use Macworld, Macbook Air, and iTouch to debut the new technology. But if multi-touch is available for those two entirely different hardware, why not other touch pads?

The flipside of the coin however comes from the fact that the upgrade for the iTouch is not free. This is an interesting precedent for Apple, and only time will tell whether or not Apple will continue down this road. I am curious how the availability of an upgrade for iTouch users was communicated for those who are not in the know. I suppose that when devices were synced following the release of the upgrade, users were automatically taken to a page on the iTunes store announcing new features and requesting $20. Insight here is appreciated.

So if Apple is charging for that software, why not charge users for the ability to use multi-touch? From a business standpoint it seems rather lucrative.

Or perhaps lets say the multi-touch is hardware dependent. Hypothetically, Apple could have silently started including a more advanced touch-pad at any point over the last year without any of us being the wiser. Just because the Air leaked out of Apple's balloon doesn't mean they can't still keep some secrets. I will use myself as an example: I bought my macbook in November shortly after the hardware upgrade. Unless you are an electrical engineer who took apart two different laptops and closely examined the touchpad for some change which a layman like me could not identify, how would you know if it was any different? I do suppose an Apple Genius might notice, but then again they probably haven't had a chance to look at too many newer macbooks yet. Anyhow, if this is the case than you pro users are screwed - so I discount this theory, but its a fun one. :D

My last argument for multi-touch on existing platforms would be the ambiguity of the wording that Apple has been using since Tuesday about it.

As for functionality, since 10.5.1 and the recent software update of 12/18/07 it has been pretty much smooth sailing here. Before that I had to downgrade my security to WEP which I wasn't very happy about, not that I feel threatened in the least. I also experienced those crazy unresponsiveness issues which annoyed me to no end - but were fixed with the update. I do hope that 10.5.2 contains the bug fixes that I've read about here, even though I don't experience many of them, I don't ever want to either. The only one that is bugging me is SMB, since I have like 5-7 years of crap on my PC that I want access to without having to go install a firewire card for.

As for the upgrades, the 10.5.2 release - I peg it to be between Noon Wednesday 1/23 and Noon Thursday 1/24 PST, without multi-touch. I do see it being available, but only after Air has been available for long enough for the die-hards to go pick it up in retail. Lets say beginning of March - but I bet its ready now (that we may never know).

That was more long-winded than I thought. If I got anything wrong, please say so!
_____________________
Macbook 2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 GB 667 MHz DDR2, GMA X3100
Original iPod Nano 4GB
1 Windows PC that will never be upgraded beyond XP
(and pending fed stimulus package one hell of an HDTV)

balahir
Jan 19, 2008, 10:21 AM
Does anyone have the following 10.5.1 annoying issue:

In a window containing many folders (in folder view), you scroll down until you find a specific folder. You open that, do perhaps some editing, and then go back with the Back arrow. I would then expect the first window to remember the position to which I have scrolled down to, but it is always scrolled to its uppermost position. Annoying...

Anyone???

MikeTheC
Jan 19, 2008, 10:59 AM
The previous seed of Mac OS X 10.5.2 re-introduced a list view to the Stacks.
Oh thank heaven. I've been on a couple friends' iMacs with Leopard, and not having a normal menu capability on Stacks is incredibly frustrating.

I personally use a highly customized configuration (see image below) and would be unwilling to "get by without it". Hopefully Apple has gotten off their "Stacks" high horse and put back in a much needed area of functionality.

Here's how my Mac dock is set up:


Internet Dock Menu:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7296/internetdockmenu01ar2.png


Applications Dock Menu:

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1337/applicationsdockmenu01nf8.png


Games Dock Menu:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/812/gamesdockmenu01zy5.png


Utilities Dock Menu:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7605/utilitiesdockmenu01xu6.png


Network Dock Menu:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9177/networkdockmenu01hk3.png


Apple Menu Dock Menu:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/311/appledockmenu01ah3.png

Daveoc64
Jan 20, 2008, 05:13 AM
Anyone???

I should have replied a bit sooner, but I get that too.

Very annoying when you're going back and forward between different folders.

Blue Velvet
Jan 20, 2008, 05:26 AM
Another really annoying thing I want fixed, dammit, is navigating with the Command Key using the Folder icon at the top of a window.

It used to ó in Panther, Tiger ó to open your new location in the same window, it now opens it in a new window which isn't very productive and leads to more clutter.

Fix it now.

xUKHCx
Jan 20, 2008, 06:25 AM
I can't (fully) replicate this, do you mean this navigation

98540

If so then I can get it to do both, for example keep holding down cmd and it opens in a new window, let go of cmd and it opens in the same window.

Blue Velvet
Jan 20, 2008, 06:36 AM
I can't (fully) replicate this, do you mean this navigation


OK, that's changed. It used to stay in one window when you kept on holding the command key down... it's something that bugs me as I move between work machines (Tiger) and home machine (Leopard).

Thanks for pointing that subtlety out. I'll adjust. :)

TheSpaz
Jan 20, 2008, 08:56 AM
Network Dock Menu:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9177/networkdockmenu01hk3.png


Doesn't your Finder freeze up when you choose a network alias from the Dock?
What I ended up doing is making a folder full of AFP links. Open TextEdit and type afp://username@192.168.1.xx/ (whatever the IP address is to that machine) and then select that bit of text and drag it to the desktop. Bam, you got an internet link to that file. Basically when you click it from the Dock, it instantly connects you to the server rather than using a network alias.

MacsAttack
Jan 20, 2008, 10:56 AM
The flipside of the coin however comes from the fact that the upgrade for the iTouch is not free. This is an interesting precedent for Apple


No. It isn't. They charged for the update to make MacBooks and Mac Pros 802.11n capable.

http://www.news.com/Apples-802.11n-accounting-conundrum/2100-1044_3-6151790.html

Apple gets around this issue with the iPhone and :apple:TV by spreading the income from sales over the "lifetime" of the product. But not so the Touch.

ben2umbc
Jan 20, 2008, 09:01 PM
No. It isn't. They charged for the update to make MacBooks and Mac Pros 802.11n capable.

http://www.news.com/Apples-802.11n-accounting-conundrum/2100-1044_3-6151790.html

Apple gets around this issue with the iPhone and :apple:TV by spreading the income from sales over the "lifetime" of the product. But not so the Touch.

Thanks for that correction. Does that give more credence to the possibility of charging users for multi-touch?

maverick808
Jan 20, 2008, 09:28 PM
No. It isn't. They charged for the update to make MacBooks and Mac Pros 802.11n capable.

http://www.news.com/Apples-802.11n-accounting-conundrum/2100-1044_3-6151790.html

Apple gets around this issue with the iPhone and :apple:TV by spreading the income from sales over the "lifetime" of the product. But not so the Touch.

Therefore, we can assume that every time there is a significant update to the iPhone/Touch software the Touch users are going to have to pay yet again. :(

MikeTheC
Jan 22, 2008, 01:03 PM
TheSpaz:

Well, now that you come to mention it...

Yeah, the Finder is a fickle thing when it comes to networking. I'm not really sure why, but at a guess I'd say Apple's made too much dependent on the various processes that go forth. I've lost count of the number of times in the past I've had to force-quit the Finder, and this generally stands in stark contrast to how Mac OS X behaves otherwise.

I will tell you this much, though. I don't use AFP:// protocol requests. They tend to be rather flaky and, worse yet, sloooooooooow, particularly during the initial negotiation process.

What I use instead is cifs:// , and you'd be amazed how much faster it negotiates and gives me a list of shares to connect to. Of course, I also am using Samba to do my shares, and it's running on a real Linux installation (Debian Etch/PPC), so clearly your mileage may vary.

TheSpaz
Jan 22, 2008, 02:34 PM
TheSpaz:

Well, now that you come to mention it...

Yeah, the Finder is a fickle thing when it comes to networking. I'm not really sure why, but at a guess I'd say Apple's made too much dependent on the various processes that go forth. I've lost count of the number of times in the past I've had to force-quit the Finder, and this generally stands in stark contrast to how Mac OS X behaves otherwise.

I will tell you this much, though. I don't use AFP:// protocol requests. They tend to be rather flaky and, worse yet, sloooooooooow, particularly during the initial negotiation process.

What I use instead is cifs:// , and you'd be amazed how much faster it negotiates and gives me a list of shares to connect to. Of course, I also am using Samba to do my shares, and it's running on a real Linux installation (Debian Etch/PPC), so clearly your mileage may vary.

Ah, well I use AFP links all the time and it's nice and fast for me as well as it doesn't make the Finder freeze up and hang.

iBug2
Jan 22, 2008, 02:49 PM
Apple just seeded 10.5.2 C20, the new build comes in 2 packages. One combo updater at 350 MB and one Graphics Driver package at 50 MB. There are no known issues left with C20.

MacsAttack
Jan 22, 2008, 02:50 PM
Thanks for that correction. Does that give more credence to the possibility of charging users for multi-touch?

Impossible to say. If it can all be done in software it [may fall under an update/fix of an existing feature - which they don't charge for. If I was Apple, i'd keep it just for the MBA and redesigned MBPs - then toss it out in an updated MB next year.

xUKHCx
Jan 22, 2008, 02:52 PM
Apple just seeded 10.5.2 C20, the new build comes in 2 packages. One combo updater at 350 MB and one Graphics Driver package at 50 MB. There are no known issues left with C20.

Anything changed in the latest build?

iBug2
Jan 22, 2008, 02:53 PM
There are 22 documented changes over C16.

xUKHCx
Jan 22, 2008, 02:55 PM
There are 22 documented changes over C16.

Anything good or are they all just boring things, also how long roughly do you think it will be before release

iBug2
Jan 22, 2008, 02:57 PM
Anything good or are they all just boring things, also how long roughly do you think it will be before release

Documented changes always seem insignificant, but since it has no listed known issues the release should be soon imho.

MacsAttack
Jan 22, 2008, 02:58 PM
Therefore, we can assume that every time there is a significant update to the iPhone/Touch software the Touch users are going to have to pay yet again. :(

Its a lot less than buying a new Touch. Imagine the whining if they had done that! I suspect that Apple are keeping the iPhone and Touch codebase combined for ease of maintenance and to deploy the features needed to support the SDK. Or to put it another way - my 1st Gen Nano can't play video. I'm not expecting Apple to update it to do so. And I don't see Apple holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to buy the extra apps if they don't want to.

In future I would not be surprised if Apple lets the whiners swing in the wind and not offer upgrades to existing Touchs. See how they like them apples. :D

Kar98
Jan 22, 2008, 03:14 PM
What exactly is between 10.4.10 and 10.4.11?

Well, there was the "oops, 10.4.10 introduced an irritating sound on Intel Macs with laptop soundchip" audio update.

likuid435
Feb 5, 2008, 01:08 AM
Darn it, so that means we have like another month to wait for this update:mad:. That was the only reason I was looking for to MacWorld so much, because I thought the update would come out then. I really hope it fixes my MBP taking 5 minutes to wake out of sleep, or sometimes not waking up at all.

I have heard of the same issue. Try backing everything up, wipe everything clean and doing a fresh Leopard Install. I have heard that a fresh, full install has fixed this.