Mac OS X 10.3 Panther Build 7B85 Posted to ADC [Archive]

MacRumors

Oct 14, 2003, 05:03 PM

Apple has released Mac OS X 10.3 Panther Build 7B85 to Premier Apple Developers via their Apple Developer Connection website.

The first reports of Panther going Gold Master appeared on October 1st (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031001164435.shtml) from various sources on the web.

Despite significant debate, it does appear build 7B85 is the Gold Master build which has gone to duplication.

Apple officially announced Panther's release (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031008085338.shtml) to be on October 24th at 8pm.

shadowfax

Oct 14, 2003, 05:06 PM

it seems like someone was tellilng me they had found exposé bugs in 7b85... is that true?

i wonder how many days it will be out before we catch 10.3.1...

blueBomber

Oct 14, 2003, 05:09 PM

um.... now I'm wondering if I want to upgrade to panther so quickly on my perfectly working jaguar install

....

yeah, I'm going to:D

dongmin

Oct 14, 2003, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by shadowfax
it seems like someone was tellilng me they had found exposé bugs in 7b85... is that true?
Can you be more specific? It works wihtout a hitch on my iBook 500.

Speaking of which, my 500th post!!!

mkjellman

Oct 14, 2003, 05:11 PM

I am an ADC member and it is not posted just 10.2.8......Just FYI

From Win to Mac

Oct 14, 2003, 05:15 PM

i'm also an ADC member. I'm a student. We don't get those seeds. Only Select Members get them.

J@ffa

Oct 14, 2003, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by blueBomber
um.... now I'm wondering if I want to upgrade to panther so quickly on my perfectly working jaguar install

....

yeah, I'm going to:D

Me too :D

huckleup

Oct 14, 2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by From Win to Mac
i'm also an ADC member. I'm a student. We don't get those seeds. Only Select Members get them.
I believe it is only available to Premier members (as the original post says) and not even Select members.

LostInAMac

Oct 14, 2003, 05:34 PM

Does anyone know if you can still use the hack so that you can have multiple monitors on your iBook without mirroring on Panther?
I am not really sure of how the hack works and whether it would be affected, has anyone tried it with one of the earlier versions of Panther?

Thanks a lot

bignumbers

Oct 14, 2003, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by huckleup
I believe it is only available to Premier members (as the original post says) and not even Select members.

You know, this really gets my goat. I'm a Select member, and have verified I don't have this build for download. In the differences between Select and Premiere there's nothing about Premiere members having better build options. If anything, the descriptions in this regard are exactly the same. The differences are mainly in WWDC attendance and support availability. Is my software less important to test on Panther just because I paid Apple a few hundred dollars less?

Arghh!

shadowfax

Oct 14, 2003, 05:36 PM

i would bet that there will be an update to the hack within about a week or 2 after the panther release, if the current hack stops working :)

gallenx

Oct 14, 2003, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by bignumbers
You know, this really gets my goat. I'm a Select member, and have verified I don't have this build for download. In the differences between Select and Premiere there's nothing about Premiere members having better build options. If anything, the descriptions in this regard are exactly the same. The differences are mainly in WWDC attendance and support availability. Is my software less important to test on Panther just because I paid Apple a few hundred dollars less?

Arghh!

I wouldn't worry about it too much. You'll probably have access soon. They're probably just trying to make sure their servers don't get absolutely destroyed by the traffic. Give it a few days.

I just hope they give it to the WWDC attendees. I'd really rather not wait till the November mailing to get it for free. :-)

BrandonRP0123

Oct 14, 2003, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by shadowfax
it seems like someone was tellilng me they had found exposé bugs in 7b85... is that true?

i wonder how many days it will be out before we catch 10.3.1...

Do you have more data on the Expose bug? I certainly can't find one through vast combinations of expose + command+tab, etc.

7B85 is very stable and I haven't noticed any real problems or bugs yet (just new features, obviously)

MrMacMan

Oct 14, 2003, 06:07 PM

Officalness is good.

Note: Officalness is not a word... but it should be. To be officially offical.

There we go.

:p

aaroncd

Oct 14, 2003, 06:09 PM

I tried it, and while it seems cool, there is a MAJOR bug which basically renders it unusable, any window that you move, or scroll, keeps the original content, like say you drag a window across the screen, it moves, but anything that was in the window stays where it was on the screen, to clean it i have to minimize it to the dock, then bring it up again. every time i get or send a message in iChat, same thing.

I have a g4 400 AGP, upgraded with a gigadesigns 800, and one of the apple nVidia geForce 4 MX (32M) cards in it.

Aaron

WM.

Oct 14, 2003, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by LostInAMac
Does anyone know if you can still use the hack so that you can have multiple monitors on your iBook without mirroring on Panther?
I am not really sure of how the hack works and whether it would be affected, has anyone tried it with one of the earlier versions of Panther?
Not a developer, pirate, or owner of a Radeon-equipped iBook, but I can tell you that that's a very low-level hack (a script that runs in Open Firmware at boot), and my guess is that unless Apple has specifically modified the OS to break it, it should work just great in Panther.

W "king of long, single-sentence posts" M

Anthd15

Oct 14, 2003, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by LostInAMac
Does anyone know if you can still use the hack so that you can have multiple monitors on your iBook without mirroring on Panther?
I am not really sure of how the hack works and whether it would be affected, has anyone tried it with one of the earlier versions of Panther?

Thanks a lot

I applied the same hack on my 17" iMac and it still works after upgrading to Panther 7B68. I'd imagine it would be the same for your iBook. Hope this helps.

cnladd

Oct 14, 2003, 06:45 PM

Linc

Oct 14, 2003, 06:56 PM

Hi All, has anyone tried out Studio MX 2004 or Contribute under 7b85? The programs wont start for me.. it bounces for a few seconds and then they disappear. Also I had to reboot the other day, and when I logged back in all my menu items were gone.. I was kinda hoping 7b85 wasn't going to be the GM. Oh well I guess I just have to wait for 10.3.1 :rolleyes:

deejemon

Oct 14, 2003, 07:20 PM

deejemon

Oct 14, 2003, 07:23 PM

earlopogous

Oct 14, 2003, 07:50 PM

bitfactory

Oct 14, 2003, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by deejemon
I'm a Select member, not Premier, and 7B85 has shown up. Downloading it now.

hmmm - not for me.

lmalave

Oct 14, 2003, 08:09 PM

lmalave

Oct 14, 2003, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by From Win to Mac
i'm also an ADC member. I'm a student. We don't get those seeds. Only Select Members get them.

I'm in the Student Developer program too. I don't know if we'll get a downloadable version, but we'll definitely get Panther in the mail on CD.

gregorypierce

Oct 14, 2003, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by deejemon
I'm a Select member, not Premier, and 7B85 has shown up. Downloading it now.

You must be the only one :) Not showing up for me nor a couple of friends of mine who are receiving seeds.

daveL

Oct 14, 2003, 08:35 PM

Same here. Select member... no seed.

ZildjianKX

Oct 14, 2003, 08:36 PM

What's w/ the page2 rumor that 7B85 was pulled? Is it GM or not? :p

Alexander

Oct 14, 2003, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by bitfactory
hmmm - not for me.

Me either. What's the hostname of the FTP server you're getting it from?

dho

Oct 14, 2003, 08:59 PM

ZildjianKX:

I sure hope it isnt GM :(

seamuskrat

Oct 14, 2003, 09:09 PM

OK people, 7b85 IS the golden master of Panther. Look at the dev.apple.com site and if you are lucky enough to be a premier you can download it. It even says it is the GM.

I am sure 10.3.1 is well underway. its not inconceivable that by 10-24 when you load panther the SUCP will tell you 10.3.1 is already here.

No build of an OS is ever bug free. We would still be at system 6 if we wanted peerfect os releases. Panther 10.3.0 is a far cry better than 10.2.0. Its faster, more stable, and more compatible. I am sure it has its problems (I know a few with games already), but those will be addressed.

RELAX, just a few more days.

ZildjianKX

Oct 14, 2003, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by seamuskrat
OK people, 7b85 IS the golden master of Panther. Look at the dev.apple.com site and if you are lucky enough to be a premier you can download it. It even says it is the GM.

I am sure 10.3.1 is well underway. its not inconceivable that by 10-24 when you load panther the SUCP will tell you 10.3.1 is already here.

No build of an OS is ever bug free. We would still be at system 6 if we wanted peerfect os releases. Panther 10.3.0 is a far cry better than 10.2.0. Its faster, more stable, and more compatible. I am sure it has its problems (I know a few with games already), but those will be addressed.

RELAX, just a few more days.

Wow, it really says goldmaster on the premiere website next to it? Screenshot! :)

merges

Oct 14, 2003, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by seamuskrat
It even says it is the GM.

We mustn't be looking at the same website...

akac

Oct 14, 2003, 09:36 PM

ADC does not GM make. Apple doesn't use ADC as its method of certifying GM. It went GM 2 weeks ago.

I believe the ONLY reason ADC members haven't gotten it is because of all the leaks. Apple hates leaks and due to all the leaks things like the Bluetooth keyboard/mice were leaked and the software itself is leaked, etc...

I think Apple is sending a message to developers. Stop the leaks - we can stop the builds.

dgallina

Oct 14, 2003, 10:35 PM

For those of you who've seen it: Are the final discs different than the earlier leaked 7B85? Are the developer tools bundled on disc 3 rather than separated as noted in some reports, for example? What version of iTunes is there? etc. etc....

cynikal

Oct 14, 2003, 11:36 PM

What games don't work with 7b85?

Fat Tony

Oct 14, 2003, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by Linc
Hi All, has anyone tried out Studio MX 2004 or Contribute under 7b85? The programs wont start for me.. it bounces for a few seconds and then they disappear. Also I had to reboot the other day, and when I logged back in all my menu items were gone.. I was kinda hoping 7b85 wasn't going to be the GM. Oh well I guess I just have to wait for 10.3.1 :rolleyes:

Happened to me too. I've searched for any recent documentation on this but have found nothing.

Linc

Oct 15, 2003, 12:01 AM

GPhant

Oct 15, 2003, 12:29 AM

From an ADC Email:

"NOTE: To improve the download experience for all ADC members, we are staging access to this Panther build. Other participants in the ADC Software Seeding Program will be notified by email when the seed is available to them."

... that is why some ADC members have access and some do not.

Wes

Oct 15, 2003, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by cynikal
What games don't work with 7b85?

Every game I've tried works, just with a few quirks. In America's Army when I am getting shot at the little puffs of dust from the gun fire are red, and all smoke in the game is blue.

mustang_dvs

Oct 15, 2003, 01:44 AM

To all my fellow ADC Select members and Student members, please stop b!tch!ng and moaning.

You could have 10.3 right now, if you'd pony up $3,000 like the Premiere members have. And I can understand Apple's hesitance at sending 10.3 straight to the P2P networks a week prior to Panther going on sale.

I don't see the reason for the rush anyway -- I really don't want to install 10.3 on any mission-critical machines until those who live on the bleeding edge have come back with bug reports and tales of woe, leading to the release of 10.3.1. I may dabble as a developer, but I have no desire to be a guinea pig.

One thing that I am curious about is: do the Premiere members also have access to the GM Panther Server?

Alexander

Oct 15, 2003, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by mustang_dvs
You could have 10.3 right now, if you'd pony up $3,000 like the Premiere members have. And I can understand Apple's hesitance at sending 10.3 straight to the P2P networks a week prior to Panther going on sale.

It is ALREADY on the P2P networks. Is Apple telling us that this is where we should go to test against release software? Maybe a little bit of seed serialization would help with this, not keeping builds from your developers.

Student members may be one thing, but when I bought my Select membership, noone told me I would be a second-class citizen -- just that I wouldn't have quite as many included support incidents, or hardware discounts, or free WWDC passes. I'm a small developer, sure, but I have software that people expect to be compatible with the latest OS, just like the big guys.

Originally posted by mustang_dvs
I don't see the reason for the rush anyway -- I really don't want to install 10.3 on any mission-critical machines

Because my clients expect that my software will work with Panther ON DAY ONE. If I don't have a head start, all I can do is cross my fingers and hope it already works. Gee, thanks Apple.

Originally posted by mustang_dvs
One thing that I am curious about is: do the Premiere members also have access to the GM Panther Server?

Yeah, I'm curious about this as well.

Rower_CPU

Oct 15, 2003, 01:57 AM

Have developers had access to server in the past? I'd be surprised if they did.

reidab

Oct 15, 2003, 03:08 AM

Have the dev tools for 10.3 been posted for select or premier members yet? I personally don't like to install an os in which i can't quickly and easily install a compiler.

nologo

Oct 15, 2003, 04:12 AM

Originally posted by Linc
Hi All, has anyone tried out Studio MX 2004 or Contribute under 7b85? The programs wont start for me.. it bounces for a few seconds and then they disappear. Also I had to reboot the other day, and when I logged back in all my menu items were gone.. I was kinda hoping 7b85 wasn't going to be the GM. Oh well I guess I just have to wait for 10.3.1 :rolleyes:

All of the Studio MX 2004 applications work fine for me under 7B85.

I was surprised to hear this problem.

F/reW/re

Oct 15, 2003, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by nologo
All of the Studio MX 2004 applications work fine for me under 7B85.

I was surprised to hear this problem.
Works fine with 7A202 too (one of the first Panther builds)

Looks crap with the aqua gui, but it works. I really wish they would take the time to make the Macromedia apps as good for Mac as they are for Windows!

MacTech

Oct 15, 2003, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by Linc
Hi All, has anyone tried out Studio MX 2004 or Contribute under 7b85? The programs wont start for me.. it bounces for a few seconds and then they disappear. Also I had to reboot the other day, and when I logged back in all my menu items were gone.. I was kinda hoping 7b85 wasn't going to be the GM. Oh well I guess I just have to wait for 10.3.1 :rolleyes:

I have run both Contribute and Studio MX under 7B85.

frogmella

Oct 15, 2003, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by aaroncd
I tried it, and while it seems cool, there is a MAJOR bug which basically renders it unusable, any window that you move, or scroll, keeps the original content, like say you drag a window across the screen, it moves, but anything that was in the window stays where it was on the screen, to clean it i have to minimize it to the dock, then bring it up again. every time i get or send a message in iChat, same thing.

I have a g4 400 AGP, upgraded with a gigadesigns 800, and one of the apple nVidia geForce 4 MX (32M) cards in it.

Yeah, me too (G4AGP/400 with GF4MX), and I had the same problem. I managed to get it to work by copying the NVIDIA and GeForce extensions from Jaguar, but Quartz Extreme and OpenGL aren't enabled, so you can't run games or get the cool effects. Bummer.

Any smart hackers know how to enable OpenGL?

Fat Tony

Oct 15, 2003, 09:02 AM

I should also clear this up by saying I have Studio MX 2004 working in Panther on a machine that I chose to 'Upgrade' from Jaguar. No problems there. But when I did an 'Archive and Install' on a seperate machine, it's killed Studio MX 2004. Even after re-installing, it would not work.

aaroncd

Oct 15, 2003, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by frogmella
Yeah, me too (G4AGP/400 with GF4MX), and I had the same problem. I managed to get it to work by copying the NVIDIA and GeForce extensions from Jaguar, but Quartz Extreme and OpenGL aren't enabled, so you can't run games or get the cool effects. Bummer.

Any smart hackers know how to enable OpenGL?

can u say exactly which files u moved? there are quite a lot of different ones.

Thanks,
Aaron

mustang_dvs

Oct 15, 2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Have developers had access to server in the past? I'd be surprised if they did.

Yep, we have. I had to buy 10.0 Server via the Developer store, but 10.2 Server has always been available online and via ADC mailings. (10.1 came with my X-Serves; Currently a Select Member, will be a Premiere member as of 3/13/04)

Originally posted by Alexander
Because my clients expect that my software will work with Panther ON DAY ONE. If I don't have a head start, all I can do is cross my fingers and hope it already works. Gee, thanks Apple.

That is a legitimate concern that I hadn't considered -- all of the developing I do is for in-house projects, not external clients. I admit, I'm frustrated at Apple's slow pace towards getting the GM to ADC members, but only for testing and evaluation purposes -- I'd like to assume that the differences between 7B74 and 7B85 are minimal, but I doubt it.

Originally posted by Alexander
...when I bought my Select membership, noone told me I would be a second-class citizen -- just that I wouldn't have quite as many included support incidents, or hardware discounts, or free WWDC passes.

True, but it's not like Apple promised ADC developers access to the GM prior to public release (although it would have made sense). I can understand them staggering the availability -- consider how bogged down the ADC seeding servers get everytime there is a new major seeding.

pogotastik

Oct 15, 2003, 02:08 PM

Hi,
Does anyone have any idea how Apple are choosing the order to release 7B85 to select members.Country?Alphabetical?
Thanks Pogo

GPhant

Oct 15, 2003, 03:49 PM

I believe that it is based on the length that you have been a member. I've had an an Select ADC account for a long time, and I had almost immediate access when the beta became available. A friend of mine, however, has only been a member for a few months, and he didn't get access until today.

bitfactory

Oct 15, 2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by GPhant
I believe that it is based on the length that you have been a member. I've had an an Select ADC account for a long time, and I had almost immediate access when the beta became available. A friend of mine, however, has only been a member for a few months, and he didn't get access until today.

nope - i've been a member for YEARS and still don't have access to it.

frogmella

Oct 15, 2003, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by aaroncd
can u say exactly which files u moved? there are quite a lot of different ones.

Yeah, I copied:
/System/Library/Extensions/GeForce*
and
/System/Library/Extensions/NVDA*

It ain't elegant, but it works.

Alexander

Oct 15, 2003, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by bitfactory
nope - i've been a member for YEARS and still don't have access to it.

Ditto. :fume: Anyone wanna toss a copy my way? Maybe I'll go down to Cupertino and frown at everyone. :/

akac

Oct 15, 2003, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by Alexander
It is ALREADY on the P2P networks. Is Apple telling us that this is where we should go to test against release software? Maybe a little bit of seed serialization would help with this, not keeping builds from your developers.

Student members may be one thing, but when I bought my Select membership, noone told me I would be a second-class citizen -- just that I wouldn't have quite as many included support incidents, or hardware discounts, or free WWDC passes. I'm a small developer, sure, but I have software that people expect to be compatible with the latest OS, just like the big guys.

Because my clients expect that my software will work with Panther ON DAY ONE. If I don't have a head start, all I can do is cross my fingers and hope it already works. Gee, thanks Apple.

Yeah, I'm curious about this as well.

In the past...Apple never seeded Premier members differently from Select members. All ADC Select/Premier members got the seeds. All the way up to GM of Panther.

My thoughts are that either Apple is trying to stagger the downloads to keep bandwidth down and since Premier members payed more they get it first. OR! Apple is trying to figure out who is leaking the seeds by giving to premier members first...then select....OR! Apple is fed up withe leaking and trying to "teach us a lesson" about leaking.

It is known that inside Apple SJ and others are REALLY mad that Panther seeds leaked on the net. It may be that Select members won't ever get seeds any longer. It may be that it'll only be on CD. It may be that they are in the midst of changing the developer program and we just saw the beginning of it - and we should expect a lot more. Or it may just be simple bandwidth issues.

Either way...I do think Apple needs to email ADC members and tell us what's going on.

daveL

Oct 16, 2003, 02:01 PM

I can hardly see how Apple can associate the Panther leaks with ADC members. We (Select) haven't gotten a seed since 7B74 on the 20th of September. Meanwhile, 7B85 was up on bitTorrent on the 4th of October. Obviously, it wasn't from ADC Select. So, I don't think anything is going on other than Apple trying to manage the download volume. I'm surprised they didn't just mail out the CDs, since we'll get them eventually anyway.