PDA

View Full Version : MacBook Air Battery Replacement Trivial?




MacRumors
Jan 18, 2008, 06:33 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Despite early concerns that the MacBook Air battery is unaccessible to end users, Appleinsider claims (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/18/sources_macbook_air_battery_replacements_take_only_minutes.html) that there are no special tools or knowledge required to swap out the MacBook Air's battery.

A standard size-0 type philips is all that's required to open the MacBook Air. The replacement process is described:Once flipped upside down, the MacBook Air's bottom cover is easily unscrewed and removed, providing immediate access to the battery cavity. From there, the battery can be unscrewed from the chassis with the same screwdriver and unplugged from the circuit board with a simple tug -- it's not soldered to the board.Given the history of iPod battery replacements, there was some concern that users would be unable to easily replace the MacBook Air battery. Apple has said that a $129 replacement will be available but will require the MacBook Air to be sent in from Apple. If the battery replacement is this easy, however, 3rd party batteries will certainly also be available.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/18/macbook-air-battery-replacement-trivial/)



Harpo
Jan 18, 2008, 06:34 PM
A little screwing can go a long way.

Artofilm
Jan 18, 2008, 06:40 PM
Well... that's one less thing for the whiners to whine about.
Im sure they'll find something to replace it to whine more, though.

mikef07
Jan 18, 2008, 06:43 PM
What? You mean I have to buy my own screwdriver. That is ridiculous. They should include one. Not to mention that the RAM is soldered so I presume it comes with a solder gun.

Hope people realize I am kidding.

This is good news.

Wishes would be a 3rd party battery that could possibly provide even longer battery life.

The one thing that is holding me back is the lack of a internal cell card or a place to put a cell card. the only thing I would be stuck with is a USB cell card.

Rocket Rion
Jan 18, 2008, 06:44 PM
Good, maybe the whiney crybabies will shut up. No, that's expecting too much.

apachie2k
Jan 18, 2008, 06:45 PM
hahaha.... this is good news, i guess. but i'm assuming that the majority of the people using it is for travel, and obviously to make a statement. So while this isn't impossible to remove the battery, it will look kind of odd when the TSA (at the airport) is looking through your bag and sees a screwdriver, and you have to explain its to remove the battery to put another one in... haha how embarrassing :o

Bensch
Jan 18, 2008, 06:47 PM
nontheless it will be hard to just swap it on-the-go.

bensch

David G.
Jan 18, 2008, 06:47 PM
While this news is good it still hasn't changed my mind about me not getting one.

willdenow
Jan 18, 2008, 06:49 PM
Well... that's one less thing for the whiners to whine about.
Im sure they'll find something to replace it to whine more, though.

As someone who needs a laptop on long flights, I don't see complaints above no user accessible/replaceable battery as whining. If it is indeed as simple as it appears to replace the battery, this will allay my biggest concern regarding the MBA. But only so long as Apple doesn't void the warranty.

I will not be surprised, though, to see Apple make it more difficult to replace the battery on future models (like they did with the user serviceable parts on the iMac) and/or simply refuse to honor the warranty if this turns out to be a revenue stream that Apple covets. After all, if Apple is willing to insult its iPod Touch customers by charging for software it intentionally withheld for a mere $20 per user, I imagine it's salivating over a frequent influx of $129 from its Airbook customers. Time will tell.

Transeau
Jan 18, 2008, 06:51 PM
Here is another great thing...

If you don't buy one, you can't bitch about it! Gotta love it!

tuneman07
Jan 18, 2008, 06:52 PM
I am still going to be one of those whiners :) Great piece of technology and very impressive, but not something that makes any sense to buy.

maverick808
Jan 18, 2008, 06:55 PM
I don't see how this helps. I travel a lot and often on long plane journeys I go through 3 batteries with my MBP. How am I supposed to perform a MacBook Air battery swap on a plane? Even if I'm in first class with plenty space I'm still not going to want to attempt it.

Also, opening your MacBook Air to perform this swap will invalidate your warranty so it's not really that great a solution.

Crash-n-Burn
Jan 18, 2008, 06:56 PM
Great, but if it voids your applecare......

SteveG4Cube
Jan 18, 2008, 06:59 PM
I don't see how this helps. I travel a lot and often on long plane journeys I go through 3 batteries with my MBP. How am I supposed to perform a MacBook Air battery swap on a plane? Even if I'm in first class with plenty space I'm still not going to want to attempt it.

Magsafe airline adapter?

Yankees 4 Life
Jan 18, 2008, 07:02 PM
people are so stupid to rush to judgement

latestmonkey
Jan 18, 2008, 07:02 PM
Here is another great thing...

If you don't buy one, you can't bitch about it! Gotta love it!


Clearly you haven't been reading. these guys bitch about stuff they don't even intend to buy or have them as the target audience!

ntrigue
Jan 18, 2008, 07:06 PM
Is it possible to purchase an extra battery and how much?

Seems reasonable to do this in a hotel room when traveling; I'd be comfortable doing it in flight.

maverick808
Jan 18, 2008, 07:06 PM
Magsafe airline adapter?

Fine if you can get one. You'll find that on many airlines you'll only get a power socket in first class, particularly if you are travelling outside the US. Sometimes you don't even get one in first class.

GreyHare
Jan 18, 2008, 07:08 PM
In before someone's 3rd party battery sets their MBA in fire and they blame Apple for it.

Anyone taking bets on how long before this happens?

blashphemy
Jan 18, 2008, 07:09 PM
Doesn't help the fact that roadwarriors aren't going to want to pull out a screwdriver and void their warranty every day halfway through the day...

Eidorian
Jan 18, 2008, 07:11 PM
Apple sure loves their Phillips #0 screws.

Most users on the road would like a more easily swappable battery though. It's rather annoying to take the case off.

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 07:12 PM
As someone who needs a laptop on long flights, I don't see complaints above no user accessible/replaceable battery as whining. If it is indeed as simple as it appears to replace the battery, this will allay my biggest concern regarding the MBA. But only so long as Apple doesn't void the warranty.

I will not be surprised, though, to see Apple make it more difficult to replace the battery on future models (like they did with the user serviceable parts on the iMac) and/or simply refuse to honor the warranty if this turns out to be a revenue stream that Apple covets. After all, if Apple is willing to insult its iPod Touch customers by charging for software it intentionally withheld for a mere $20 per user, I imagine it's salivating over a frequent influx of $129 from its Airbook customers. Time will tell.

You do realize that Apple makes an airplane power cord that's a hell of a lot cheaper than an extra battery and if you're taking a flight so long that your battery is going to run out I guarantee you there is DC power available under the seat. I have no idea why people keep using the long flight excuse, just buy the adapter and have unlimited power the whole flight!!

eastcoastsurfer
Jan 18, 2008, 07:15 PM
Fine if you can get one. You'll find that on many airlines you'll only get a power socket in first class, particularly if you are travelling outside the US. Sometimes you don't even get one in first class.

Bingo. My last trip to Tokyo on a fn' new 777 had no power unless you were in first class. I even called ahead to check and the airline said every seat has access to one of those airline power adapters, but no such luck.

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 07:15 PM
Fine if you can get one. You'll find that on many airlines you'll only get a power socket in first class, particularly if you are travelling outside the US. Sometimes you don't even get one in first class.

Oh that's a load of crap (at least the US part). MD-80's come with them standard throughout the entire cabin and those are just 2x3's. As I said in another post, if you're traveling in the US and your flight is so long your battery is going to die your plane is going to have DC power. The only planes that don't have DC power are the smaller ones and those flights don't go more than 4 hours at the extreme outside. And while we're talking about the battery it's 5 hours WITH WI-FI and Bluetooth ON! On an airplane you're going to get, at the very least, 6 hours probably more like 6.5-7.

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 07:16 PM
Bingo. My last trip to Tokyo on a fn' new 777 had no power unless you were in first class. I even called ahead to check and the airline said every seat has access to one of those airline power adapters, but no such luck.

Do tell - how many batteries would you need to last the entire flight to Tokyo? If you own a MBP you'd honestly take 2-3 extra batteries with you? Really?

cwryn
Jan 18, 2008, 07:17 PM
You do realize that Apple makes an airplane power cord that's a hell of a lot cheaper than an extra battery and if you're taking a flight so long that your battery is going to run out I guarantee you there is DC power available under the seat. I have no idea why people keep using the long flight excuse, just buy the adapter and have unlimited power the whole flight!!

I have never flown on a seat in which that plug works. I was told that the plug only works if you are in first class. Coach flights that I have taken on Delta, United and Alaskan in the states have not had the plug, nor have United, Quantas or Lufthansa flights internationally.

An easily swapped battery would be nice.

eastcoastsurfer
Jan 18, 2008, 07:17 PM
Oh that's a load of crap (at least the US part). MD-80's come with them standard throughout the entire cabin and those are just 2x3's. As I said in another post, if you're traveling in the US and your flight is so long your battery is going to die your plane is going to have DC power. The only planes that don't have DC power are the smaller ones and those flights don't go more than 4 hours at the extreme outside. And while we're talking about the battery it's 5 hours WITH WI-FI and Bluetooth ON! On an airplane you're going to get, at the very least, 6 hours probably more like 6.5-7.

Like I mentioned above, that's just not true. Even the larger international planes are often missing the DC power plugs.

flyinmac
Jan 18, 2008, 07:20 PM
I don't see how this helps. I travel a lot and often on long plane journeys I go through 3 batteries with my MBP. How am I supposed to perform a MacBook Air battery swap on a plane? Even if I'm in first class with plenty space I'm still not going to want to attempt it.

Also, opening your MacBook Air to perform this swap will invalidate your warranty so it's not really that great a solution.

Exactly...

And, am I the only one here who finds it odd that Apple supposedly stripped this machine down to the minimum, got a low power CPU, and and so on to make this an ultra portable that only gets 5 hours (according to them) of battery life?

Of course, it could be less than 5 hours given how optimistic Apple tends to be when rating their battery power.

But, the thing is, on Apple's site, the MacBook (the base model low-end MacBook) gets 6 hours of battery life (again according to Apple).

So, you mean to tell me that they stripped the MacBook Air down to it's minimum, made it supposedly more power efficient, used the same basics as a MacBook but with lower specs, and also ended-up giving us less battery life than a cheapo MacBook?

How is it that we are to pay so much more, for so much less, and get less battery life?

How is it that they think this is something great?

It's a repackaged MacBook with the following cuts:

A slower CPU
A smaller slower hard drive
No CD / DVD drive at all (unless you want to lug an external)
No FireWire
Fewer USB
No upgradable RAM (although it does come with a reasonable amount).
No user quick swap battery (who's going to realistically dismantle their computer to change the power pack when their away from the office to extend productive mobile time?)
No easy hard drive upgrade
No Ethernet Port
A few misc. input ports missing

And, 1 hour less battery life??????

Sure, it's 2 pounds lighter. Sure, it looks sleeker (although it's effective size is the same - it's still going to require as much space to store / carry / hold it as the MacBook. The reduced size is only minimal and some of it's thickness remains similar in the rear.

So...

take all those features away from a standard MacBook

take away two pounds

put it into a pretty case

And, raise the price by about $700.

Now, that's a great formula for Apple.

Think about this from a strategic point. They have found a way to cut the cost of production, decrease the feature set, cut a lot of useful / necessary ports, cut battery life, and they sell it for $700 more.


Now, the real kicker. The extra stuff you'll carry in your laptop bag for this machine will weigh more than the 2 pounds shaved from the computer (and you still won't get the higher performance of the cheaper systems).

Throw a USB hub in the bag, and throw in an external DVD-R drive, and throw in a small USB portable hard drive, and you'll quickly wish you has saved $700 and purchased a MacBook.

Personally, I'd rather have the ability to swap another battery in on the go, and have the extra features and speed, and longer battery life; while saving $700.

That 2 pound savings comes a much higher cost than just the additional price tag. It comes at the additional expense of battery life and useful features.

eastcoastsurfer
Jan 18, 2008, 07:20 PM
Do tell - how many batteries would you need to last the entire flight to Tokyo? If you own a MBP you'd honestly take 2-3 extra batteries with you? Really?

14 hours from ATL -> Narita (Tokyo). Figure 7-8 hours sleeping, so 1 extra battery would be all you would need to remain productive for the flight.

KindredMAC
Jan 18, 2008, 07:21 PM
As long as you have Apple Care you should be covered. Once Apple Care runs up, there is no more warranty to void out with cracking the case open to get at the battery.

In 2-3 years I expect the iPod battery manufacturers to be on board with the replacement batteries for the MBAir so that we can all crack the case to do the dirty deeds.

Ubuntu
Jan 18, 2008, 07:21 PM
Good, maybe the whiney crybabies will shut up. No, that's expecting too much.

Oh the irony.

iVoid
Jan 18, 2008, 07:23 PM
Great, but if it voids your applecare......

Ummmmm.... if your MPA is under warranty or AppleCare, Apple should replace the battery for free.

Now if the battery was removable like the other MacBooks, then they might only replace it if it was deemed defective somehow. I've had mixed dealings with Apple and batteries in the past, so it's hard to say if they would cover all batteries under AppleCare or not.

But with them designing it not to be user replaceable, I can't see how they can avoid replacing the batteries under warranty/applecare when they stop holding a charge. If they did, a class action lawsuit is sure to follow.

flyinmac
Jan 18, 2008, 07:27 PM
Like I mentioned above, that's just not true. Even the larger international planes are often missing the DC power plugs.

Yep... Quite right.

I've flown on as long of flights as you can get in the United States, and I have absolutely never (and I mean never) been on a plane with something I could plug a computer into. No power taps anywhere.

Now, if you can come up with a flight longer than Alaska to Florida within the borders of the United States (keeping in-mind that I have to fly past Canada), then I'd like to see where you went.

My flights from Alaska to Texas, Alaska to Florida, Alaska to California, Alaska to Seattle, have never had power taps on their planes.

I've been on repeat trips to several of those destinations, and never had a power tap available yet. And, of course those were all round trip flights, so they had twice the opportunity to provide me with one if they were going to.

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 07:27 PM
14 hours from ATL -> Narita (Tokyo). Figure 7-8 hours sleeping, so 1 extra battery would be all you would need to remain productive for the flight.

Turn off the WiFi and Bluetooth and you wouldn't even need an extra battery w/ the MBA... Since you said you only want 6-7 hrs of battery life it'd be quite easy to get that out of it w/ no WiFi or BT on.

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 07:29 PM
I have never flown on a seat in which that plug works. I was told that the plug only works if you are in first class. Coach flights that I have taken on Delta, United and Alaskan in the states have not had the plug, nor have United, Quantas or Lufthansa flights internationally.

An easily swapped battery would be nice.

The only planes I've been on in my past 8 round trip flights (about 24 planes due to transfers and such) that didn't have working DC outlets in coach were 1x2's and those flights were about 3 hours. Maybe it's an American thing, idk but I do know for a fact they work on the AA flights in coach because I've used them.

flyinmac
Jan 18, 2008, 07:30 PM
Ummmmm.... if your MPA is under warranty or AppleCare, Apple should replace the battery for free.

Now if the battery was removable like the other MacBooks, then they might only replace it if it was deemed defective somehow. I've had mixed dealings with Apple and batteries in the past, so it's hard to say if they would cover all batteries under AppleCare or not.

But with them designing it not to be user replaceable, I can't see how they can avoid replacing the batteries under warranty/applecare when they stop holding a charge. If they did, a class action lawsuit is sure to follow.


The problem, is that manufacturers often use a different measurement to determine when a battery is no longer "good".

So, the battery could be effectively useless for a portable computer, but still "good" enough that they wouldn't replace it. Each company uses a different measurement. But, I've never seen a measurement standard that favored the consumer.

jbernie
Jan 18, 2008, 07:30 PM
Out of curiosity, as I don't work for a company that has more than a few Macs, do apple laptops have the issue where by if your machine is in standby and only on battery and the battery runs out of juice the machine can only be restarted by completely removing the battery and then reinserting to allow you to boot up, even if the laptop has been reconnected to ac power when you try to power it on?

Just curious, cos if they do, then you are SOL with the Air. Void your apple care so you can boot your laptop? Thats classy.

maverick808
Jan 18, 2008, 07:32 PM
Turn off the WiFi and Bluetooth and you wouldn't even need an extra battery w/ the MBA... Since you said you only want 6-7 hrs of battery life it'd be quite easy to get that out of it w/ no WiFi or BT on.

Are you serious? The MacBook Pro is rated for 6 hours. With wifi and BT off, the screen on dimmest and doing nothing but browsing so the CPU never goes over 20% you'll be lucky to get 3 1/2 hours. Same with the MacBook. I believe the only way you'd get 6 hours out of either an MBP or MB is to turn the screen off and use it with an external monitor.

For the MBA I bet you'll be lucky to get 3 hours under light use. With a rated 5 hours there's simply no way you'd ever get 6-7 hours no matter what you turn off.

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 07:32 PM
Out of curiosity, as I don't work for a company that has more than a few Macs, do apple laptops have the issue where by if your machine is in standby and only on battery and the battery runs out of juice the machine can only be restarted by completely removing the battery and then reinserting to allow you to boot up, even if the laptop has been reconnected to ac power when you try to power it on?

Just curious, cos if they do, then you are SOL with the Air. Void your apple care so you can boot your laptop? Thats classy.

Unless it's a new issue, no, they don't. That's happened to my PB a few times and I just plugged it into the adapter and it fired right up.

imacdaddy
Jan 18, 2008, 07:32 PM
Good, maybe the whiney crybabies will shut up. No, that's expecting too much.

I just wish the whiney crybabies would just leave this forum, full stop! They do the forum no good. Nothing but negativity, emotions, bashing...page after page after page. I just skip through them but in doing so, I would miss one or two good valid posts. :mad:

maverick808
Jan 18, 2008, 07:33 PM
Out of curiosity, as I don't work for a company that has more than a few Macs, do apple laptops have the issue where by if your machine is in standby and only on battery and the battery runs out of juice the machine can only be restarted by completely removing the battery and then reinserting to allow you to boot up, even if the laptop has been reconnected to ac power when you try to power it on?

Just curious, cos if they do, then you are SOL with the Air. Void your apple care so you can boot your laptop? Thats classy.

No Apple laptops I've owned have ever had that problem.

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 07:35 PM
Are you serious? The MacBook Pro is rated for 6 hours. With wifi and BT off, the screen on dimmest and doing nothing but browsing so the CPU never goes over 20% you'll be lucky to get 3 1/2 hours. Same with the MacBook. I believe the only way you'd get 6 hours out of either an MBP or MB is to turn the screen off and use it with an external monitor.

For the MBA I bet you'll be lucky to get 3 hours under light use. With a rated 5 hours there's simply no way you'd ever get 6-7 hours no matter what you turn off.

Not quite sure what in the world you're doing with it but CNet ran their battery drain tests on the MBP and it performed just fine (215 mins watching a DVD off of the optical drive). I consistently get longer than rated battery life out of my 3 year old PB.

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/apple-macbook-pro-2007/4505-3121_7-32465635.html?tag=prod.txt.1

tuneman07
Jan 18, 2008, 07:36 PM
I came up with this theory because I want it to be true :) I think Apple is going to come out with something cool that will actually be worth buying in the near future, but in order to offload the MBP/MB computers they put out this cool looking showcase of what they can do with a laptop that no one will want to buy. I personally waited two months for Macworld to see what was coming and immediately realized that the Air is not even close to being something I want. Then I went to buy a Macbook and there were no refurbs, and I thought "I am probably not the only person to go to buy a MB/MBP when they realized the MBA isn't for them". They honestly can't expect the MBA to be a huge hit- Apple isn't that stupid. I really really think they are using it to boost sales of the MB/MBP and give sort of a taste of what they are capable of. I could see a really cool new computer coming out that will replace the MB/MBP.

jbernie
Jan 18, 2008, 07:36 PM
For the MBA I bet you'll be lucky to get 3 hours under light use. With a rated 5 hours there's simply no way you'd ever get 6-7 hours no matter what you turn off.

Though the SSD may help a bit as opposed to the 1.8" hdd.

cwryn
Jan 18, 2008, 07:39 PM
The only planes I've been on in my past 8 round trip flights (about 24 planes due to transfers and such) that didn't have working DC outlets in coach were 1x2's and those flights were about 3 hours. Maybe it's an American thing, idk but I do know for a fact they work on the AA flights in coach because I've used them.

Maybe I should fly American then, lol. I don't know exactly what planes I flew on... I know I've been on a mix, 737, 747, 757, some big airbus things I don't know the model # of and a handful of other planes. None of them had anything to plug into for LA to Vancouver, NY, FL, DC, New Zealand, London, Frankfurt Berlin or Prague.

/oh and yeah, thats everywhere I have traveled to by plane, enjoy. lol.
//The AirNZ flights I have been on do not have the plugs either.

apachie2k
Jan 18, 2008, 07:41 PM
Not quite sure what in the world you're doing with it but CNet ran their battery drain tests on the MBP and it performed just fine (215 mins watching a DVD off of the optical drive). I consistently get longer than rated battery life out of my 3 year old PB.

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/apple-macbook-pro-2007/4505-3121_7-32465635.html?tag=prod.txt.1

i always thought that apple tended to under promise the battery ratings, like they with most of their products... this way it over performs and makes people happy!

maverick808
Jan 18, 2008, 07:42 PM
Not quite sure what in the world you're doing with it but CNet ran their battery drain tests on the MBP and it performed just fine (215 mins watching a DVD off of the optical drive). I consistently get longer than rated battery life out of my 3 year old PB.

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/apple-macbook-pro-2007/4505-3121_7-32465635.html?tag=prod.txt.1

215 mins is well below the 6 hours Apple state for the MBP. Check this site out which gives some real world results from various MBP models...

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/faq/macbook-pro-battery-life-hotswap.html

Basically, under any kind of normal use you can expect about 50-60% of whatever Apple claim. Anyway, the original claim was that you'd get 6-7 hours of battery life when Apple claim 5. No way, simply no way in hell. You'll never get more battery life than Apple claim... you'll never even get close under normal use.

flyinmac
Jan 18, 2008, 07:44 PM
i always thought that apple tended to under promise the battery ratings, like they with most of their products... this way it over performs and makes people happy!

Not usually.

With the first several batches of the MacBook Pro, they were quoting in the 4+ hour range. But, users were frequently reporting that in their most conservative use that they could only get between 1.5 and 2 hours at the most. Some were even getting far less than that with no resolution being provided by Apple.

I don't know about the new ones since I quite following the discussions on them after I decided to get something different.

cameronjpu
Jan 18, 2008, 07:45 PM
I don't see how this helps. I travel a lot and often on long plane journeys I go through 3 batteries with my MBP. How am I supposed to perform a MacBook Air battery swap on a plane? Even if I'm in first class with plenty space I'm still not going to want to attempt it.

Also, opening your MacBook Air to perform this swap will invalidate your warranty so it's not really that great a solution.

If you're in first class, plug your laptop in.

If not, get yourself an external battery pack. Viola!

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 07:45 PM
215 mins is well below the 6 hours Apple state for the MBP. Check this site out which gives some real world results from various MBP models...

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/faq/macbook-pro-battery-life-hotswap.html

Basically, under any kind of normal use you can expect about 50-60% of whatever Apple claim. Anyway, the original claim was that you'd get 6-7 hours of battery life when Apple claim 5. No way, simply no way in hell. You'll never get more battery life than Apple claim... you'll never even get close under normal use.

That's boarderline FUD man, come on. 215 mins spinning the optical drive with the sound on and full screen brightness and you're claiming you can't get anything more than that just surfing the web? Every single apple product I've ever owned, iPods, iPhone, PB have met and exceeded their Apple rated battery life. My PB still exceeds it's rated battery life w/ my WiFi on...

apsterling
Jan 18, 2008, 07:52 PM
Think about this from a strategic point. They have found a way to cut the cost of production, decrease the feature set, cut a lot of useful / necessary ports, cut battery life, and they sell it for $700 more.

Throw a USB hub in the bag, and throw in an external DVD-R drive, and throw in a small USB portable hard drive, and you'll quickly wish you has saved $700 and purchased a MacBook.


Or... use it as Apple figured anyone would (On a plane, in a car), drop those devices, and get 7 hours. Plus the battery cell itself is smaller, so it's bound to not hold as much.

I'd gladly take the air on a plane trip rather than a MacBook. But I have neither, and don't need either yet.

maverick808
Jan 18, 2008, 07:55 PM
That's boarderline FUD man, come on. 215 mins spinning the optical drive with the sound on and full screen brightness and you're claiming you can't get anything more than that just surfing the web? Every single apple product I've ever owned, iPods, iPhone, PB have met and exceeded their Apple rated battery life. My PB still exceeds it's rated battery life w/ my WiFi on...

The fact that batteries never last anywhere near what's claimed is common knowledge, and is in line with my experience of the 8 Apple laptops I've owned. Do your own test. Charge your MBP up to full and then unplug and use it until your battery life runs out. I bet you don't get anywhere near Apple's claimed 6 hours. I bet you get around 60% of that, just under 4 hours.

flyinmac
Jan 18, 2008, 07:58 PM
Or... use it as Apple figured anyone would (On a plane, in a car), drop those devices, and get 7 hours. Plus the battery cell itself is smaller, so it's bound to not hold as much.

I'd gladly take the air on a plane trip rather than a MacBook. But I have neither, and don't need either yet.

That sounds nice, except they only rate it for 5 hours. And, as optimistic as Apple usually is on battery life, that probably means somewhere around 3 to 3.5 hours if you are really conservative in power use.

apsterling
Jan 18, 2008, 08:00 PM
The fact that batteries never last anywhere near what's claimed is common knowledge, and is in line with my experience of the 8 Apple laptops I've owned. Do your own test. Charge your MBP up to full and then unplug and use it until your battery life runs out. I bet you don't get anywhere near Apple's claimed 6 hours. I bet you get around 60% of that, just under 4 hours.

My iPod touch gets more than the claimed 22 Hours music life, and 5 hour video.

I have usage statistics on and with a combo of Music and Internet use, got 23 hours without a recharge.

My 5th gen, in it's prime, got a solid 16 hours, 4 more than intended.

My old Dell laptop, however, was grossly unusable. Without optical or wifi, I got an hour at most. Our family's power laptop (also a Dell) with massive specs for a Notebook, got 2, with optical on.

So it really varies from device to device- though it seems that notebooks generally are overstated a bit.

Virgil-TB2
Jan 18, 2008, 08:02 PM
I don't see how this helps. I travel a lot and often on long plane journeys I go through 3 batteries with my MBP. How am I supposed to perform a MacBook Air battery swap on a plane? Even if I'm in first class with plenty space I'm still not going to want to attempt it.

Also, opening your MacBook Air to perform this swap will invalidate your warranty so it's not really that great a solution.Why do people hate this computer so much that they just make stuff up? I mean this is an Apple product forum, not an "I hate Apple and everything they do" forum.

You want us to believe that you regularly go on 15 or 20 hour long flights, that you take three batteries with you and swap them all in/out because of course you are computing for 12 to 15 hours straight?

I mean come-on. :rolleyes:

At least bring your complaints into the realm of "possibly true."

maverick808
Jan 18, 2008, 08:08 PM
My iPod touch gets more than the claimed 22 Hours music life, and 5 hour video.

I have usage statistics on and with a combo of Music and Internet use, got 23 hours without a recharge.

My 5th gen, in it's prime, got a solid 16 hours, 4 more than intended.

I agree, iPods, particularly the more recent ones, tend to get more than the stated battery life under conservative use. However, I still stand by my statement that under normal use Apple's laptops will tend to get about 60%.

I'm not saying this in a derogatory way. All laptop manufacturers make similar claims. I'm sure they do their tests with wifi, BT and the screen all off, and with CPU usage averaging under 5-10%.

I don't see how anyone with an MBP could claim they get 6 hours. I mean, charge an MBP up fully, pull the power out and after a minute look at what the battery meter says on the menu... it won't be 6 hours.

maverick808
Jan 18, 2008, 08:13 PM
Why do people hate this computer so much that they just make stuff up? I mean this is an Apple product forum, not an "I hate Apple and everything they do" forum.

You want us to believe that you regularly go on 15 or 20 hour long flights, that you take three batteries with you and swap them all in/out because of course you are computing for 12 to 15 hours straight?

I mean come-on. :rolleyes:

At least bring your complaints into the realm of "possibly true."

I frequently travel between the US and Europe. With connections that can mean I'm travelling for more than 10 hours at a time. I have an MBP and two spare batteries. Often, by the time I reach my destination all three have been fully used up.

Why do you assume that just because I disagree with your point of view that I must hate Apple? Most people who know me say that I'm an Apple fanatic and too forgiven of Apple.

meagain
Jan 18, 2008, 08:13 PM
Good, maybe the whiney crybabies will shut up. No, that's expecting too much.

I hear ya. It didn't take a genious to see the back can be easily removed from the get-go. Never did I once think I couldn't replace this battery.

Virgil-TB2
Jan 18, 2008, 08:17 PM
Not usually.

With the first several batches of the MacBook Pro, they were quoting in the 4+ hour range. But, users were frequently reporting that in their most conservative use that they could only get between 1.5 and 2 hours at the most. Some were even getting far less than that with no resolution being provided by Apple.

I don't know about the new ones since I quite following the discussions on them after I decided to get something different.I've used/worked with and fixed Apple laptops for a long long time and I have never heard anyone complain about having less battery life than Apple quotes in it's specs. If you have a Mac laptop that doesn't get as many hours as Apple says it will (or even more), you are an exception IMO.

Your post is so exaggerated it just reads like a lie. "Significantly less" than 1.5 hours would have to be maybe an hour (or perhaps even less than that) on a battery rated for over 4 hours. So please tell us the details on all these people that got less than an hour out of their PowerBook batteries and how Apple did nothing about it. While your at it point us to the news articles about the outrage that followed, because if it's true then certainly it would have been a colossal deal in the press.

I don't remember hearing or reading anything about it.

Mackan
Jan 18, 2008, 08:18 PM
I hear ya. It didn't take a genious to see the back can be easily removed from the get-go. Never did I once think I couldn't replace this battery.

But it will for sure void your warranty, if I know Apple right...

matttrick
Jan 18, 2008, 08:18 PM
i would just like to make the simple inquiry of... why is the battery not user swappable? what possible reasoning for this can there be other than making it a PITA for people to change themselves, and to rape a few hundred more bucks from everyone?

saturnino3
Jan 18, 2008, 08:18 PM
I think the official Apple solution to the whole "battery running out mid flight" is to have an additional Macbook Air in your bag. They are so thin you can have multiple AirBooks in your bag. Everybody wins. Especially Apple.

EricNau
Jan 18, 2008, 08:19 PM
Apple has said that a $129 replacement will be available but will require the MacBook Air to be sent in from Apple. If the battery replacement is this easy, however, 3rd party batteries will certainly also be available.
Does the computer have to be mailed in or stay overnight at a Genius Bar? ...If the replacement process is so easy, I would think be a a quick 10 minute procedure at any Apple Store.

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 08:21 PM
The fact that batteries never last anywhere near what's claimed is common knowledge, and is in line with my experience of the 8 Apple laptops I've owned. Do your own test. Charge your MBP up to full and then unplug and use it until your battery life runs out. I bet you don't get anywhere near Apple's claimed 6 hours. I bet you get around 60% of that, just under 4 hours.

I would but I've been patiently awaiting a replacement for my 12" PB and had the MBA come with an optional 160GB 1.8" drive I might have found one. So, yeah, I can't do a drain test on a MBP but I can tell you that all my iPods, my iPhone and my PB exceed their apple rated battery life so I have a hard time figuring out why it's only their MBx line that they decide to over estimate.

Mackan
Jan 18, 2008, 08:21 PM
Not usually.

With the first several batches of the MacBook Pro, they were quoting in the 4+ hour range. But, users were frequently reporting that in their most conservative use that they could only get between 1.5 and 2 hours at the most. Some were even getting far less than that with no resolution being provided by Apple.

I don't know about the new ones since I quite following the discussions on them after I decided to get something different.

Isn't battery life measued when the laptop is sitting there doing absolutely nothing, with screen brightness down to minimum? I think that is usually how it is. So a promised 4 hours battery life, is in reality 2 hours if you do any kind of work, and want to read things on the screen.

Mackan
Jan 18, 2008, 08:23 PM
I think the official Apple solution to the whole "battery running out mid flight" is to have an additional Macbook Air in your bag. They are so thin you can have multiple AirBooks in your bag. Everybody wins. Especially Apple.

Exactly. ;)

maverick808
Jan 18, 2008, 08:24 PM
I've used/worked with and fixed Apple laptops for a long long time and I have never heard anyone complain about having less battery life than Apple quotes in it's specs. If you have a Mac laptop that doesn't get as many hours as Apple says it will (or even more), you are an exception IMO.

Your post is so exaggerated it just reads like a lie.

Wow. He's not an exception, he's the norm. Even the quickest search of the Apple discussion forums show that normal battery life is much, much lower than Apple claim.

http://discussions.apple.com/search.jspa?objID=c190&search=Go&q=battery+life

Leoff
Jan 18, 2008, 08:26 PM
i would just like to make the simple inquiry of... why is the battery not user swappable? what possible reasoning for this can there be other than making it a PITA for people to change themselves, and to rape a few hundred more bucks from everyone?

I would think that the answer is fairly obvious: the design of the MacBook Air wouldn't allow it. For some reason the thinness and/or lightness of the laptop made a standard replace-able battery unavailable.

There's no possible reason for Apple to do it for the monetary example you give. IF it was possible to make it replaceable, Apple would simply go ahead and charge the $129 (or more) for each replacement battery. People would still buy them.

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 08:28 PM
Wow. He's not an exception, he's the norm. Even the quickest search of the Apple discussion forums show that normal battery life is much, much lower than Apple claim.

http://discussions.apple.com/search.jspa?objID=c190&search=Go&q=battery+life

Thanks for the anecdotal evidence there. As all MR members know the only reason you ever go to the apple forums is 1) you have a problem or 2) you think you can help people with their problems (Mac wise anyway). You aren't going to find posts in the forums from users saying "Hey, I'm just posting this because my Mac is awesome and the battery life is awesome - Thanks Apple" ...

Virgil-TB2
Jan 18, 2008, 08:33 PM
I frequently travel between the US and Europe. With connections that can mean I'm travelling for more than 10 hours at a time. I have an MBP and two spare batteries. Often, by the time I reach my destination all three have been fully used up.

Why do you assume that just because I disagree with your point of view that I must hate Apple? Most people who know me say that I'm an Apple fanatic and too forgiven of Apple.Well you are spreading FUD all over the forum, so you obviously have some kind of emotionally driven agenda in regards Apple.

The only way you could use up that much power or "compute" for that long is by watching DVD's or something equally foolish. If you regularly use your Pro for that, then you probably could burn up so many charge cycles that your three batteries are all woefully short of power, necessitating the constant swapping and poor performance.

No matter how you slice it, such usage is a great exception to how most people would use a computer on an airline, and the needs that most people have for their laptops. Additionally, as many have already pointed out there are plugs on most planes nowadays and they generally provide them precisely for first class habitual travelers like yourself who go on long flights.

Assuming you are not lying (and only exaggerating by the standard amount), then clearly the product does not match your usage profile and you shouldn't buy it. But why exactly are you spending your time running down a perfectly good product that you will never use anyway? It's kind of like a 4-wheel drive aficionado spending his time posting about how lame 2-wheel drive is and making fun of anyone who would dare to drive one.

ziwi
Jan 18, 2008, 08:34 PM
This is some positive news for a change...;) Easy access to the innards will have this thing modded in no time.

maverick808
Jan 18, 2008, 08:35 PM
Thanks for the anecdotal evidence there. As all MR members know the only reason you ever go to the apple forums is 1) you have a problem or 2) you think you can help people with their problems (Mac wise anyway). You aren't going to find posts in the forums from users saying "Hey, I'm just posting this because my Mac is awesome and the battery life is awesome - Thanks Apple" ...

Well, I firmly believe that about 60% use is the norm for MacBooks and MacBook Pros. So far I've owned 6 and that's the typical amount I've seen on them, and other MacBooks my colleagues have. And if you browse through those threads on the Apple forums you'll see that many people replying to people worrying they have a broken battery, who say their own batteries are fine/normal, typically report about 60-70% of what Apple state.

If people really care that much then just post a new thread in this forum asking people how long their batteries last in real world use.

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 08:47 PM
Well, I firmly believe that about 60% use is the norm for MacBooks and MacBook Pros. So far I've owned 6 and that's the typical amount I've seen on them, and other MacBooks my colleagues have. And if you browse through those threads on the Apple forums you'll see that many people replying to people worrying they have a broken battery, who say their own batteries are fine/normal, typically report about 60-70% of what Apple state.

If people really care that much then just post a new thread in this forum asking people how long their batteries last in real world use.

You'll run into the exact same problem. It's a well documented issue. Those who are content and/or happy with their current product (be it car, laptop, job, w/e) have much lower likelihood of them posting anything even if it's "do you like your car/laptop/job." That's just how the human psyche works. Only way to get a real answer is to have standardized tests conducted by third parties. And like I said - CNet got 215 mins spinning the optical drive with the sound on and you're saying that you're experience is only slightly more than that and you're just surfing the web and running a few different programs.

MacTheSpoon
Jan 18, 2008, 08:50 PM
Well, if it's that easy to remove the bottom plate, then maybe a third party will sell a replacement bottom plate that allows for easy battery access.

dcphotog1
Jan 18, 2008, 08:51 PM
Apple or a third party licensee will release a external battery with a mag safe connector on it that you plug in and powers the computer. It won't be any bigger than carrying an extra battery and it will shut up all the whiners.

mvc
Jan 18, 2008, 08:51 PM
i would just like to make the simple inquiry of... why is the battery not user swappable? what possible reasoning for this can there be other than making it a PITA for people to change themselves, and to rape a few hundred more bucks from everyone?

Oh I'm sure it could be Mac Greed™, but I suspect it could perhaps be structural.

The strength and especially the rigidity of that skinny aluminum clamshell would probably be undermined by whacking great big holes in it suitable for battery access. The Macbook pros have a very different internal configuration I expect, more of a chassis, and the vertical sides of the case add rigidity and resist twisting somewhat.

Or maybe St Ives and Stevie Baby just wanted it to have the smoothest bum possible to add sex appeal, because as far as I can tell, this machine is for the ladies :p

tirant
Jan 18, 2008, 08:53 PM
Well, I firmly believe that about 60% use is the norm for MacBooks and MacBook Pros. So far I've owned 6 and that's the typical amount I've seen on them, and other MacBooks my colleagues have. And if you browse through those threads on the Apple forums you'll see that many people replying to people worrying they have a broken battery, who say their own batteries are fine/normal, typically report about 60-70% of what Apple state.

If people really care that much then just post a new thread in this forum asking people how long their batteries last in real world use.



Macbook SR. I get quite more than 60%. It could easily be 5 hours or even more. No DVD use and minimun brightness, off course.

TokyoJustin
Jan 18, 2008, 08:54 PM
Due to the Air's width, it's begging for a piggy back battery (from Apple?) to give it a PDA battery life but still remaining thinner than most notebooks. While I so wanted the Air to be a "real" computer, a 10 battery would certainly make me stop and think.

My 2 yen observation - there seems to be 3 types of posters on this forum:

1) The whiners.

2) The whiners who take the bait and whine about the whiners (a draw - goto 1)

3) Those hoping to find out some new titbits.

1 and 2 seem to be making up the majority. We should have sympathy for them, love and care for them like there were our own. Maybe some kind of fund to relieve them of their 6kg, company Dell laptops?

digitalbiker
Jan 18, 2008, 08:56 PM
That's boarderline FUD man, come on. 215 mins spinning the optical drive with the sound on and full screen brightness and you're claiming you can't get anything more than that just surfing the web? Every single apple product I've ever owned, iPods, iPhone, PB have met and exceeded their Apple rated battery life. My PB still exceeds it's rated battery life w/ my WiFi on...

Stop the spreading of mis-information. I love Apple but... My company has purchased hundreds of macbooks, MBP, etc. Every unit that we have ever bought under performs Apple's stated battery spec. Sometimes the models miss by as much as half the stated battery life amount.

The only model that would consistently meet Apple's stated battery life, were the old G3 ibooks. That G3 ran for 5-6 hrs. without even trying to conserve.

mrkramer
Jan 18, 2008, 09:07 PM
This is good news, since I am away from power and needing to use a computer for longer than I can get on one battery too rarely to justify a second battery anyway, but I was concerned about replacing it when it no longer held a reasonable charge, and it doesn't sound too bad how it is. Now one of my two objections to the air are gone.

carbonmotion
Jan 18, 2008, 09:13 PM
Magsafe airline adapter?

most of the long trans pacific routes are done on 10 year old 747s, the magsafe adaptor doesn't work on them. that's why you need battery swap.

theBB
Jan 18, 2008, 09:33 PM
I frequently travel between the US and Europe. With connections that can mean I'm travelling for more than 10 hours at a time. I have an MBP and two spare batteries. Often, by the time I reach my destination all three have been fully used up.
Your use pattern makes sense to me, I don't know why these guys are giving you such a hard time. Their clueless claims of power outlets on every seat on every plane is unbelievable.

Anyways, if you are going to take spare batteries with you, which tend to be quite heavy, I don't think buying a very lightweight or thin laptop makes sense for you. Those batteries will take up quite a bit of uneven space in your bag and weigh you down, so why would you want to pay so much more to get a very slim laptop? The overall space or weight savings will be negligible. There are a lot of people who travel often, but do not bother carrying extra batteries for one reason or another. I think that's Apple's target market, along with image conscious customers of course.

WildPalms
Jan 18, 2008, 09:39 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Despite early concerns that the MacBook Air battery is unaccessible to end users, Appleinsider claims (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/18/sources_macbook_air_battery_replacements_take_only_minutes.html) that there are no special tools or knowledge required to swap out the MacBook Air's battery.

A standard size-0 type philips is all that's required to open the MacBook Air. The replacement process is described:Given the history of iPod battery replacements, there was some concern that users would be unable to easily replace the MacBook Air battery. Apple has said that a $129 replacement will be available but will require the MacBook Air to be sent in from Apple. If the battery replacement is this easy, however, 3rd party batteries will certainly also be available.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/18/macbook-air-battery-replacement-trivial/)

Does MacRumors need a proof reader? The correct term is inaccessible, not unaccessible.

jragosta
Jan 18, 2008, 09:41 PM
I don't see how this helps. I travel a lot and often on long plane journeys I go through 3 batteries with my MBP.

Huh? I routinely get 5 hours with my MBP. If you need 15 hours of battery time, then you must be on round-the-world nonstop flights (considering that you can't turn your computer on until you're well into the flight and have to turn it off before landing and allowing time for sleeping, eating, and going to the bathroom).

Fine if you can get one. You'll find that on many airlines you'll only get a power socket in first class, particularly if you are travelling outside the US. Sometimes you don't even get one in first class.

Then stop flying Ryan Air.

American offers power sockets in almost all first class seats and most coach seats (except for commuter flights which are never over 3 hours). I don't know, but I suspect that most US airlines are similar.

And if you're a regular enough flyer to be moaning about this, then you'd be exec platinum on American and sitting in first class, anyway.

Yep... Quite right.

I've flown on as long of flights as you can get in the United States, and I have absolutely never (and I mean never) been on a plane with something I could plug a computer into. No power taps anywhere.

Either you're flying Podunk-air or you're misinformed.

Go to seatguru.com. I looked at American Airlines since it's my preferred airline, but you can check any airline.

On American, every single plane (except commuters) has power ports in coach. Not at every seat, but if it's important to you, it's trivial to see which seats have power ports and ask to be seated there.

I wish people would stop making complaints that are just plain wrong.

Fine if you can get one. You'll find that on many airlines you'll only get a power socket in first class, particularly if you are travelling outside the US. Sometimes you don't even get one in first class.

Name one major airline that has no power ports in first class. Then name one that never has any power ports in coach.

Then go to seatguru.com and see how wrong you are.

(Commuter planes excluded since they almost never fly over 3 hours).

Not usually.

With the first several batches of the MacBook Pro, they were quoting in the 4+ hour range. But, users were frequently reporting that in their most conservative use that they could only get between 1.5 and 2 hours at the most. Some were even getting far less than that with no resolution being provided by Apple..

I guess I got the good one, then. I get 5 hours on my 17" MBP.

QuarterSwede
Jan 18, 2008, 09:42 PM
Are you serious? The MacBook Pro is rated for 6 hours. With wifi and BT off, the screen on dimmest and doing nothing but browsing so the CPU never goes over 20% you'll be lucky to get 3 1/2 hours. Same with the MacBook. I believe the only way you'd get 6 hours out of either an MBP or MB is to turn the screen off and use it with an external monitor.

For the MBA I bet you'll be lucky to get 3 hours under light use. With a rated 5 hours there's simply no way you'd ever get 6-7 hours no matter what you turn off.
I guess it just depends on the machine because my wife's MacBook easily gets 4 hours with normal usage (screen brightness to max & wi-fi usage) and my 3 year old 12" PB still gets about 3-4 hours with the same settings.

Also, I agree about the airline power being nearly impossible to find on airliners (it ought to be a standard feature these days!). This is traveling on United, US Airways, Delta from DCA to Vancouver, Hawaii, Seattle, Tampa etc. Apparently American Airways is the ONLY airline that has airline power available to coach (first class is largely a massive rip off).

Analog Kid
Jan 18, 2008, 09:58 PM
Ok, this is good news. Knowing I can replace the battery myself at least means this might be a workable solution for my wife. Still won't fly as a replacement for my work laptop-- I do want the abilities to swap batteries during the day. Don't do it often, but often enough.

winterspan
Jan 18, 2008, 09:59 PM
I don't see how this helps. I travel a lot and often on long plane journeys I go through 3 batteries with my MBP. How am I supposed to perform a MacBook Air battery swap on a plane? Even if I'm in first class with plenty space I'm still not going to want to attempt it.

Also, opening your MacBook Air to perform this swap will invalidate your warranty so it's not really that great a solution.

I just thought of something that shall potentially make this less of an issue.
I remember seeing on the net last week that the TSA is banning standalone lithium-ion batteries from airplanes. All lithium ion batteries have to be IN a device or you can't bring them along.
It will be interesting to see how that plays out...

jragosta
Jan 18, 2008, 09:59 PM
i would just like to make the simple inquiry of... why is the battery not user swappable? what possible reasoning for this can there be other than making it a PITA for people to change themselves, and to rape a few hundred more bucks from everyone?

Because making the battery swappable changes a lot of things:

- Reduces physical integrity of the case
- Adds complexity
- Adds weight
- Reduces space available fore battery, reducing battery life
- Connectors where the battery hooks into the case may be a source of bad connections - leading to fires

And so on.

Apple's solution is much, much cleaner - particularly on a computer that's as thin as this one.

skippy911
Jan 18, 2008, 09:59 PM
14 hours from ATL -> Narita (Tokyo). Figure 7-8 hours sleeping, so 1 extra battery would be all you would need to remain productive for the flight.

Wow 14 hours you must be on some specialflight? I take Delta nonstop to Tokyo and it still takes on avg 16+ hours.

ClimbingTheLog
Jan 18, 2008, 10:01 PM
I am still going to be one of those whiners :) Great piece of technology and very impressive, but not something that makes any sense to buy.

But it'll look great with your G4 cube!

I don't see how this helps. I travel a lot and often on long plane journeys I go through 3 batteries with my MBP. How am I supposed to perform a MacBook Air battery swap on a plane? Even if I'm in first class with plenty space I'm still not going to want to attempt it.

So it's not for you. Can't Apple make something you don't want?

Also, opening your MacBook Air to perform this swap will invalidate your warranty so it's not really that great a solution.

Cite? Most states' laws prohibit this type of stipulation, unless it can be shown that such opening caused damage. That's why replacing the HD on my MBP doesn't invalidate its warranty, on say the optical drive. Unless I bung it up while changing out the hard drive (I haven't managed to do that in about 15 years, though I sure did it then).

Bingo. My last trip to Tokyo on a fn' new 777 had no power unless you were in first class. I even called ahead to check and the airline said every seat has access to one of those airline power adapters, but no such luck.

Damn, you need to get everything in writing these days.

But with them designing it not to be user replaceable, I can't see how they can avoid replacing the batteries under warranty/applecare when they stop holding a charge. If they did, a class action lawsuit is sure to follow.

That's a great point, and I'm sure a round-trip to AppleCare + battery is figured into the $1799 price. Probably $200 of it, so even when the price drops, it probably can't ever get under $1399 while the MB is at $1199, even ignoring the screen size surcharge.

If not, get yourself an external battery pack.

They used to sell custom-sized pancake batteries that would velcro to the bottom of the old Powerbooks. Something like that could slip into your laptop bag pretty easily.

Well, if it's that easy to remove the bottom plate, then maybe a third party will sell a replacement bottom plate that allows for easy battery access.

I think, 'no', though I initially though this was a great idea. Because the batteries are still screwed in. You could make a replacement bottom that had a changeable battery easily enough, but then you've just negated the 'Air'.

Macbook SR. I get quite more than 60%. It could easily be 5 hours or even more. No DVD use and minimun brightness, off course.

Sure, which is why the advertised ratings are dishonest. Minimum brightness sucks unless you're working in the dark. Somebody should do a website for a real-life battery ratings database.

jragosta
Jan 18, 2008, 10:05 PM
Wow 14 hours you must be on some specialflight? I take Delta nonstop to Tokyo and it still takes on avg 16+ hours.

According to Delta's web site, it's 14 h 30 min - and airlines usually pad their flight times to allow for departure delays.

QuarterSwede
Jan 18, 2008, 10:06 PM
Name one major airline that has no power ports in first class. Then name one that never has any power ports in coach.

Then go to seatguru.com and see how wrong you are.
Ouch, wrong. The 757 I'll be flying on to Hawaii on Sunday doesn't even offer power in First class (http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/US_Airways/US_Airways_Boeing_757-200_C.php). I'm sure US Air has power on some flights but it isn't as universal as you'd like to think.

jragosta
Jan 18, 2008, 10:09 PM
Ouch, wrong. The 757 I'll be flying on to Hawaii on Sunday doesn't even offer power in First class (http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/US_Airways/US_Airways_Boeing_757-200_C.php). I'm sure US Air has power on some flights but it isn't as universal as you'd like to think.

OK. So there are some third world airlines (US Air fits that description) that don't offer power sockets.

If it's that critical to you, either buy an MBP instead of MBA or fly an airline that provides the service you want.

Problem solved.

twoodcc
Jan 18, 2008, 10:11 PM
well this should make more people like it.

~Shard~
Jan 18, 2008, 10:18 PM
Just familiarizing myself with the Air right now, as I've been away for a couple weeks. I must say I am quite impressed overall, and hearing about further details such as this is great as it makes the machine an even more attractive option.

QuarterSwede
Jan 18, 2008, 10:18 PM
OK. So there are some third world airlines (US Air fits that description) that don't offer power sockets.

If it's that critical to you, either buy an MBP instead of MBA or fly an airline that provides the service you want.

Problem solved.
? ... US Airways is a major airline (equally as large as AA, which hasn't been doing so hot itself). I usually fly United (miles) but US Airways had a much better rate on this particular flight and since it's apart of the Star Alliance I can still rack up my miles.

I don't have a problem with power usage because I don't spend the ENTIRE flight using my PowerBook. I posted because I don't like people spreading FUD. From what I've seen AA seems to be the only major airline to offer airline power to all (or most) seats.

billystlyes
Jan 18, 2008, 10:29 PM
Apple needs to start making less expensive systems that aren't so niche. Folks, we are about to go into a major recession in the US and Apple only sells one system for under a thousand dollars. That is not a good recipe for an economic downturn. Forget about that battery.

jragosta
Jan 18, 2008, 10:32 PM
? ... US Airways is a major airline (equally as large as AA, which hasn't been doing so hot itself). I usually fly United (miles) but US Airways had a much better rate on this particular flight and since it's apart of the Star Alliance I can still rack up my miles.

Actually, USAir is no where close to American. American happens to be the only major US carrier which has avoided bankruptcy.

I don't have a problem with power usage because I don't spend the ENTIRE flight using my PowerBook. I posted because I don't like people spreading FUD. From what I've seen AA seems to be the only major airline to offer airline power to all (or most) seats.

Delta has power ports on many flights. Other airlines have some power ports.

The point is that if having a power port is critical to you, it's easy enough to find a flight which has it.

Apple needs to start making less expensive systems that aren't so niche. Folks, we are about to go into a major recession in the US and Apple only sells one system for under a thousand dollars. That is not a good recipe for an economic downturn. Forget about that battery.

Not so surprisingly, 'luxury' brands tend to do better in a recession than budget brands. Apple isn't complaining about their sales results.

If Apple tries to compete against every Tom, Dick, and Harry cheapo computer manufacturer, they either get killed now or they have to cut back on their customer service - and get killed later.

QuarterSwede
Jan 18, 2008, 10:44 PM
Actually, USAir is no where close to American. American happens to be the only major US carrier which has avoided bankruptcy.
So just because AA has avoided bankruptcy makes all other airlines that haven't "third world?" Riiiiiight.


Delta has power ports on many flights. Other airlines have some power ports.

The point is that if having a power port is critical to you, it's easy enough to find a flight which has it.
Easier said than done. My point is that MOST airlines don't provide adequate power (only in first class doesn't cut it), not just one or two airlines.

MacTheSpoon
Jan 18, 2008, 10:45 PM
I think, 'no', though I initially though this was a great idea. Because the batteries are still screwed in. You could make a replacement bottom that had a changeable battery easily enough, but then you've just negated the 'Air'.

Aw, crap! I didn't know that. It's probably difficult to create a conversion kit that would hold the battery in place with prongs or something, instead?

I guess somebody could also sell a thicker, higher capacity battery that would give 15 hours of life, and include a custom bottom panel so it would fit. You still couldn't swap it, but you wouldn't need to. I don't know how much added thickness would be necessary, though... or how much weight... even a 3.5 or 4 lb. MBA with a .35 inch front edge might still be pretty nice, though, especially if it gave 15 hours of battery life. Still would be thinner than a Vaio. And it wouldn't add more weight than the multiple batteries these road warriors haul with them. And you could just use the thing for flights, then put your old battery pack/cover in so it would be down to 3 lbs, .16 inches again.

shoobe01
Jan 18, 2008, 10:54 PM
Yup, I'm gonna have to go with: This is retarded. Who gives a rat's a** about unscrewing the computer. I don't even like the stupid 90° twist lock on my MB. Everything battery has been downhill since the bronze/wallstreet. Two batteries with lever locks; got me thru long days of notes and internet (pre-1xRtt) in the middle of an auditorium, or running between conference rooms.

I go lots of places with no useful power, so I am bored by adapter talk. I've carried small things with dongles, and pretty quick you are up to having a larger computer; the bag is at least as big, cause each item needs a little home, a cord wrapped around and maybe its own padding.

I use optical like 3 times a year, but get me 12 hours on battery and I'll be all over it.

bigmc6000
Jan 18, 2008, 10:59 PM
Apple needs to start making less expensive systems that aren't so niche. Folks, we are about to go into a major recession in the US and Apple only sells one system for under a thousand dollars. That is not a good recipe for an economic downturn. Forget about that battery.

I know a lot of people talk about how an economic downturn is bad and a recession is bad but, umm. I'm REALLY looking forward to it! Stocks will go down (more shares per dollar) and the fed will drop interest rates and I'll be able to re-fi my house for a really low interest rate. There's no way I'm gonna get laid off or that I'm going to get paid less so I'm looking forward to it! :)

Anyway - if the recession does happen I'm gonna be glad because then I'll have some extra money to buy a new mac, yipee! :)

ltldrummerboy
Jan 18, 2008, 11:08 PM
Well, if it's that easy to remove the bottom plate, then maybe a third party will sell a replacement bottom plate that allows for easy battery access.

I like that idea.

flyinmac
Jan 18, 2008, 11:09 PM
I've used/worked with and fixed Apple laptops for a long long time and I have never heard anyone complain about having less battery life than Apple quotes in it's specs. If you have a Mac laptop that doesn't get as many hours as Apple says it will (or even more), you are an exception IMO.

Your post is so exaggerated it just reads like a lie. "Significantly less" than 1.5 hours would have to be maybe an hour (or perhaps even less than that) on a battery rated for over 4 hours. So please tell us the details on all these people that got less than an hour out of their PowerBook batteries and how Apple did nothing about it. While your at it point us to the news articles about the outrage that followed, because if it's true then certainly it would have been a colossal deal in the press.

I don't remember hearing or reading anything about it.

Then you weren't paying attention. Not surprising as you apparently aren't paying attention here either. You are specifically talking about the PowerBook. I am specifically talking about the very first revision of the MacBook Pro. Keep up.

Not everything makes it to a class action suit. But, that does not mean that there wasn't an issue.

One thing that was interesting about the MacBook Pro's initial release, is that Apple originally did not publish an expected battery life. So, users were on their own to compare and exchange their observed battery life experiences.

Lots of people reported 30 minutes (and were absolutely shocked and amazed). Those people asked others what they were getting, and found that they were in a minority (although still numerous). The majority of early reporters stated around 1 and a half hours to 2 hours.

Several people reported the best they could get was 3 to 3.5 hours.

And, then a few weeks later (after all the discussions), Apple finally posted their rating of 4.5 hours for the 15-inch and 5.5 hours for the 17-inch.

That absolutely baffled the people since it didn't stand to reason that a larger screen version should outlast the smaller screen version.

I was a level 4 on the Apple Discussions / Support site at the time, so I fielded a lot of questions and participated in a lot of the discussions surrounding this issue (under a different name than I use here).

As for providing you with proof and so on, do a simple search. I was going to provide you with links, but decided against it as I didn't feel like sorting through the massive number that came up. You can search it yourself.

Simply put, do a search, then sort the results by date, then go to the oldest hits first.

As for the other poster's statement about things on forums being out of line quantity wise, that is a common and easy statement to make. The problem, is that forums are about all Apple users have to get things resolved and find their cures. Apple has a nasty habit of refusing to acknowledge that they even know about an issue until it gets to the recall or class action stage.

Take the iMac G5 for example. Many of us had issues that caused the machines to over-heat, some burned / charred internally (like mine), others had capacitors that bulged or leaked. And, many users were told that there was no known issue with those machines. It wasn't until much later (after many of us had finally trashed our computers that Apple finally initiated an extended warranty to cover the very issues they originally denied.

Sometimes the forums are the only place to get support and to make your voice heard. After-all, Apple isn't going to willingly and publicly admit an issue.

Sure, not everyone uses the forums. Many don't. But, when there is a huge number of people reporting an issue, it is probably sufficient to say that it is a wide-spread issue.

After-all, I could just as easily say that just as many happy customers never report their satisfaction, that many people with issues don't jump on the forums to complain either. Lots of people have computers die and have issues with the manufacturer without ever thinking that they should go on the Internet and tell someone about it.

So, the argument works both ways. You can't dismiss an issue just because not everyone participates in the forums. Otherwise, you'd have to consider that for every person who says something nice in the forums that there could be thousands more who are dissatisfied and never get on the Internet to complain about it. Obviously, that argument would be equally short-sighted.

It would be more accurate to say simply that if a large number of people complain about an issue, that it's not likely an isolated incident.

After-all, a whole bunch of people have jumped to Apple's defense claiming that only people with issues make their voice heard on the forums. And, in most of those cases there has been (eventually - many months later) an admission by Apple that there really was a large number of people affected by the issue.

I originally thought as you did that there were not really as many people affected as it appeared (thinking that only those with issues were hanging out on the forums). But, then I began to see every failure they complained of claim my (previously reliable) Apple computer.

Turns out that while I was discounting their claims, it was only that my number hadn't come up yet.

flashframe
Jan 19, 2008, 12:11 AM
Here is another great thing...

If you don't buy one, you can't bitch about it! Gotta love it!

You can just as easily not buy one, and still bitch about it.

I don't care for laptops though. It IS beautimous though...maybe even a mind changer.

flashframe
Jan 19, 2008, 12:17 AM
Just buy two MacBookAir laptops.

You know...like when Elvis ran outta gas, he just bought another Cadillac.

Yes, yes, I know...you're welcome.

matthewHUB
Jan 19, 2008, 12:27 AM
Oh that's a load of crap (at least the US part). MD-80's come with them standard throughout the entire cabin and those are just 2x3's. As I said in another post, if you're traveling in the US and your flight is so long your battery is going to die your plane is going to have DC power. The only planes that don't have DC power are the smaller ones and those flights don't go more than 4 hours at the extreme outside. And while we're talking about the battery it's 5 hours WITH WI-FI and Bluetooth ON! On an airplane you're going to get, at the very least, 6 hours probably more like 6.5-7.


uh.... i fly to europe from the states every 6 weeks for the past 5 years and i've NEVER seen power ports in coach. Multiple airlines too and huge planes.

hulugu
Jan 19, 2008, 12:42 AM
Bingo. My last trip to Tokyo on a fn' new 777 had no power unless you were in first class. I even called ahead to check and the airline said every seat has access to one of those airline power adapters, but no such luck.

That's very strange. According to several websites, the 777 has power adapters in each and every row. Which airline did you fly on?

sanfransurfer
Jan 19, 2008, 02:05 AM
I've seen many post saying some wouldn't mind to attempt changing the battery on an airplane but last time I checked a screwdriver was not allowed in carry on or is it now?

elgruga
Jan 19, 2008, 03:41 AM
So no MBA's for 90% of the posters here. Oh well, more for the rest of us.
Because it WILL sell, and all the nonsense here wont make a bit of difference.
If you are Apple supporters/users/fans whatever, I suggest its time to SHUT UP and wait until the little laptop hits the shelves and the streets.

Very disappointing to see so much crap from people who dont want it.
Fine. I DO want it, and I think it makes a lot of sense.

You dont want it? Then dont frickin' buy it - no one is jamming a gun up your keister and leading you to the nearest Apple store, are they?

Somebody will design a bottom case option where it will have a huge 12 hour battery bulge and look like Kim Kardashian's ass - maybe then you whiners will be happy.

kaisdaddy
Jan 19, 2008, 04:48 AM
I still won't be buying my wife one until they come down in price just a smidge. Also, I never buy a version 1.0 of anything if I can help it.

trevelyn
Jan 19, 2008, 05:10 AM
Well, I have a perfect solution for those who are on planes for 10+ hours and are worried about not having access to a power source while on the plane. Just buy 3 MBA's. +10-15 hours of battery life right there.

I can see it now...

You are on the plane to Tokyo, doing whatever on your laptop and then suddenly..! The laptop dies. Woops! you say to the person sitting next to you. I guess my laptop battery died. =/

You take out another MBA out of your case and just pitch the dead one back in the bag, as if you don't even care if it gets damaged. Start that badboy up and look to the cute Japanese girl sitting next to you and just wink slyly. Oh, snap. :cool:

Porco
Jan 19, 2008, 06:11 AM
[now standard response to Macbook Air whining]

I love the Macbook Air, but SOME people would like it more if there was a model with an optical drive, a faster CPU, more ports and a removable battery, even if it made it thicker and heavier (they could even drop the 'Air' part of the name for that model). :rolleyes:

[/now standard response to Macbook Air whining]

Seriously, if you need a removable battery, get a Macbook (or Macbook Pro) and deal with the fact that Apple cannot break the laws of physics and make a computer than thin with a removable battery and optical drives etc.

If you don't need a removable battery or internal optical drive, maybe the Macbook Air is for you. If you do, then maybe it isn't.

It's great that it looks like it's easy to replace the battery when it dies / loses charge. Anyway, maybe 3rd parties will come up with magsafe-connectable external batteries for those rare times when people might need them, like you can get for iPods.

flyinmac
Jan 19, 2008, 06:46 AM
[now standard response to Macbook Air whining]

I love the Macbook Air, but SOME people would like it more if there was a model with an optical drive, a faster CPU, more ports and a removable battery, even if it made it thicker and heavier (they could even drop the 'Air' part of the name for that model). :rolleyes:

[/now standard response to Macbook Air whining]

Seriously, if you need a removable battery, get a Macbook (or Macbook Pro) and deal with the fact that Apple cannot break the laws of physics and make a computer than thin with a removable battery and optical drives etc.

If you don't need a removable battery or internal optical drive, maybe the Macbook Air is for you. If you do, then maybe it isn't.

It's great that it looks like it's easy to replace the battery when it dies / loses charge. Anyway, maybe 3rd parties will come up with magsafe-connectable external batteries for those rare times when people might need them, like you can get for iPods.

Sounds fine at first glance. And, honestly, I could live with a machine with a reduced feature set, reduced battery life, reduced CPU power, and so on if only it didn't cost $700 more than the machine which has everything it lacks.

2 pounds lighter just isn't worth that much when you consider all that is lost for your extra $700.

50548
Jan 19, 2008, 07:34 AM
Good, maybe the whiney crybabies will shut up. No, that's expecting too much.

You mean also the numerous moronic PC/MS fanboys that populate this forum? Surely this will shut them up for a while, even if almost no one needs a replacement battery in real life...:rolleyes:

ncbill
Jan 19, 2008, 07:41 AM
For the MacBook Pro:

In normal use, 3.5 hours with "charge to spare":

http://www.macworld.com/article/49555/2006/02/mbpromain.html

Or, closer to 3 hours here:

http://www.macworld.com/article/53959/2006/11/mbprocore2duo.html

Still only about 3 hours with the 17" model:

http://www.macworld.com/article/50950/2006/05/17mbpro.html

So, expect about 3 hours with normal use (wireless turned on, etc.) on the MacBook Air (still an impressive feat given the puny 37 W-h battery)

Thanks for the anecdotal evidence there. As all MR members know the only reason you ever go to the apple forums is 1) you have a problem or 2) you think you can help people with their problems (Mac wise anyway). You aren't going to find posts in the forums from users saying "Hey, I'm just posting this because my Mac is awesome and the battery life is awesome - Thanks Apple" ...

jragosta
Jan 19, 2008, 07:47 AM
So just because AA has avoided bankruptcy makes all other airlines that haven't "third world?" Riiiiiight.

No, Useless Air has earned its third world status via years of hard work.


Easier said than done. My point is that MOST airlines don't provide adequate power (only in first class doesn't cut it), not just one or two airlines.

I'm just making a simple statement - if having a power outlet next to your seat is important to you, it's not hard to find an airline and a seat which provides that. Seatguru.com is only one of the possible options.

Instead, you'd rather NOT sit by a power outlet and then complain about it.

It's the same as people complaining about some feature of the MBA. If it doesn't suit your needs, buy something else. Instead, they'd rather whine about some feature that's 'missing'.

No product (either computers or airline seats) is ideal for everyone. You look at the options, choose the one that's best for you, and stop whining. Or, at least, that's what a rational person does.

uh.... i fly to europe from the states every 6 weeks for the past 5 years and i've NEVER seen power ports in coach. Multiple airlines too and huge planes.

seatguru.com

localnet
Jan 19, 2008, 08:00 AM
What? You mean I have to buy my own screwdriver. That is ridiculous. They should include one. Not to mention that the RAM is soldered so I presume it comes with a solder gun.

Hope people realize I am kidding.

This is good news.

Wishes would be a 3rd party battery that could possibly provide even longer battery life.

The one thing that is holding me back is the lack of a internal cell card or a place to put a cell card. the only thing I would be stuck with is a USB cell card.

You ought to give one of the new USB cellular cards a try. I have one for work, a Novatel Sprint USB. It is extremely fast on my MacBook. Much faster than my slot loader I had on my PC. Even in non Evdo areas, it is still incredibly fast. I don't know what they did different, but it is a huge improvement over the old pc slot loader. Which mine was not that old, Rev A Evdo.

Just plug a pre-authorized USB card into your laptop and you are ready to go. No software needed on the Mac. True plug and play.

Digital Skunk
Jan 19, 2008, 08:01 AM
Apple sure loves their Phillips #0 screws.

Most users on the road would like a more easily swappable battery though. It's rather annoying to take the case off.

The main problem in my opinion. Not bitching here, but it's not a fixed solution to battery replacement while on the go. I can see this being a God send when your battery fouls up and you need to replace it yourself or send it back to Apple.

Now we know that IF we can buy a battery for the MBA we can replace it ourselves. I am OWC or some other 3rd party will be making batteries for the MBA soon... maybe even an innovative way to replace it while on the move.... which is what this book is intended for.

Is it possible to purchase an extra battery and how much?

Seems reasonable to do this in a hotel room when traveling; I'd be comfortable doing it in flight.

I would see this in a hotel room, but then you could just plug it into the socket.... the flight.... hmmm... I don't know about that one. I could see screws flying all over the place or even worse... :eek: A PC user with a Sony TZ or that new uber sweet 12" tablet laughing at how Apple users have to go through so much trouble to get their ultra portable up to the standards of the PC versions.

When you do get to screw your battery back in though... I am sure they will be amazed at the multi-touch trackpad and backlit keyboard.

Clearly you haven't been reading. these guys bitch about stuff they don't even intend to buy or have them as the target audience!

The problem with this statement is that most people will criticize something they don't intend to buy because there is something wrong with it in the first place. I WOULD be buying an iPhone but there are compromises I am not willing to make, so I will NOT buy it and criticize it.

As for the "market that we may not be in", it still doesn't matter because we could have been looking to go into that market once Apple took up the challenge, but then realized that Apple didn't go where we wanted them to go, or do what we wanted them to do. Like the iPhone, I wanted Apple to do certain things and they didn't, so I made my peace, stuck with Sprint, and still have options that are in some cases (not UI wise) better than the iPhone.

Apple needs to start making less expensive systems that aren't so niche. Folks, we are about to go into a major recession in the US and Apple only sells one system for under a thousand dollars. That is not a good recipe for an economic downturn. Forget about that battery.

I don't think it's a matter of less expensive systems at all. I helped a friend of mine price together a PC with a 19" monitor and the cost came to $1159 with a gig of RAM, a 320GB HDD, no FW400 ports, no bluetooth, no wifi, a single layer DVD burner, and a slow dual core AMD processor. Once he added the rebates and instant savings and the coupon he had the cost came down to $800, but he canceled the other rebate that was going on and couldn't get the 19" monitor for free, he had to get a 17" one instead.

Apple's prices are about standard, and their products aren't niche. The big issue is that Apple tries to please the middle of the line consumers... nothing on the low end and nothing on the high end. There are no 1.6GHz chips or outdated processors going into the desktop or laptop lines.

maverick808
Jan 19, 2008, 08:23 AM
So those people that don't seem to think the battery could be a problem seem to argue that really you should only fly airlines that have power sockets available. I'm sorry, but I like to be able to use my portable laptop on any airline and wherever I go. Sometimes when I get off the plane I still have a long taxi or coach ride to go, I guess I should stop travelling by road since there's no power there? Also, I go to a lot of conferences where I end up sitting in the middle of a large theatre with a hundred other people or so. Again, no power sockets in the middle of these rooms so how can I use the Air there? Basically, you guys are saying that you should never go anywhere where there isn't a power socket!

The other point I've seen is this...

The only way you could use up that much power or "compute" for that long is by watching DVD's or something equally foolish.

Yes, god forbid that on a long boring plane journey anyone should do something as foolish as watching a DVD! I guess your "equally foolish" refers to doing anything that would stress the CPU in any way; a bit of Photoshopping, making a presentation, writing a document... you know, work. I guess we should just get on the plane, sit the laptop on the tray, turn the brightness down to minimum and then never actually touch the thing lest we use any CPU. Sure, that way you might get 3-4 hours battery life out it as you sit there bored out your skull but it's not very practical is it?

This is getting ludicrous so I'm not going to discuss this anymore. I've made my mind up. If using the ultraportable Air means never going anywhere where you can't have your laptop constantly plugged into power, and never using your laptop to do any actual work then I'll stick with the plain old MacBook. It may only be a portable rather than an ultraportable but it seems I can take it and use it in a lot more places than I can take the Air.

AidenShaw
Jan 19, 2008, 08:26 AM
It's very rare for larger conference rooms (50+ people or so) to have any attempt at providing power to the seats.

If you attend a couple of back-to-back keynotes, you could easily exceed the probable 2 1/2 hour battery life of the MacBook Cube Air.

Smaller meeting rooms aren't usually a problem - if the room was furnished in the last few years you might even find power and network outlet built into the tables.

So, six people in a meeting won't have a problem plugging in. Sixty or six hundred people - bring a spare battery if it's a long session.


The note about TSA banning batteries is just wrong.

I remember seeing on the net last week that the TSA is banning standalone lithium-ion batteries from airplanes. All lithium ion batteries have to be IN a device or you can't bring them along.

This statement is simply wrong - please check the facts before posting outlandish claims.

The new rules are online at: http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

Briefly:
No "loose" battery packs in checked luggage - but it's OK to check devices with the batteries installed.

Any number of Lithium Ion batteries less than 100 WHr can be carried in your carryon bag

Only two loose batteries between 100 WHr and 300 WHr can be carried on


Since the 17" MBP battery is only 68 WHr (15" is 60 WHr, MB is 55 WHr), laptop users in general are not affected (except that loose spare batteries cannot be in checked luggage, must be in carryon).

Even the 9 cell extended battery for my Dell D620 is under 100 WHr - it's 85 WHr.

The new rules will primarily affect professional camera and video gear - the batteries for cameras and lights can be quite large.

Porco
Jan 19, 2008, 08:59 AM
Sounds fine at first glance. And, honestly, I could live with a machine with a reduced feature set, reduced battery life, reduced CPU power, and so on if only it didn't cost $700 more than the machine which has everything it lacks.

2 pounds lighter just isn't worth that much when you consider all that is lost for your extra $700.


Maybe the reduced weight and thickness is not worth it to you (maybe it's not even worth it to me to be honest!!) but Apple is betting that it IS worth it to enough people to make it worth them making the Macbook Air. I hope they're right. Although I hope they reduce the price more, I guess!

So yes, it costs more than a Macbook and lacks some features that the Macbook has. But, it has features that the Macbook lacks too - being lighter and thinner are the very features that the product is made for (I could also add the backlit keyboard and multi-touch trackpad, but hopefully one or both of those will get added to the Macbook at the next revision). I think these are just as valid as features as extra ports or optical drives are given the target market.

I just think people are getting too hung up on viewing the Macbook Air as a Macbook 'replacement' when it was clearly introduced as an addition to the range. It's good to see Apple offering more computer models, because it's an indication of the increasing market for macs if they can make the products available a little more diverse. Hopefully a mid-range headless desktop is next....

jragosta
Jan 19, 2008, 10:07 AM
So those people that don't seem to think the battery could be a problem seem to argue that really you should only fly airlines that have power sockets available.

That's certainly not what I claimed.

I said that you decide what's important to you. If you feel that having power on a 14 hour flight is important, then you get a seat next to a power socket.

If you feel that replaceable batteries is necessary for you, then you buy a computer with replaceable batteries.

But if you feel that YOU need replaceable batteries, a computer without replaceable batteries is NOT BAD - it's just not right for you.

Similarly, if you need constant access to power, a seat without a power socket is not bad, it's just not for you.

Make up your mind what you need, buy it, and stop whining that products are also made for people who have different needs.

LeviG
Jan 19, 2008, 10:37 AM
Ok I'm going to comment a little differently I hope.

According to the apple site the macbook air (I keep calling it the airbook for some reason) gives 5 hours wireless productivity. Now to me wireless productivity means more than browsing the web, this is streaming etc as this is what apple is advertising about the product (ie download music/video's from itunes rather than use an optical disk) which is inherently more battery intensive than just browsing the net.

The macbook gives 6 hours top's, most say about 4.5 hours with wifi on etc and browsing the net with average backlight settings iirc.

Now if you take that into account you could say that in theory the macbook air could give about 6.5hours (or even more) without wifi etc on doing basic things like word processing/powerpoint etc due to the lower power led display and 1.8" drive.

Now obviously playing back HD content or other similar cpu intensive tasks is going to run the battery down but if you want an ultra portable then its unlikely that you're going to be a heavy user of cpu intensive programs while on the go - so would really most likely be looking at the macbook pro and besides even that would last less time with h264 films.

Unfortunately at this time the only way to know for certain is to wait for benchmarks/reviews to come out and see how well it fairs.

From a personal perspective, I've never bought a second battery for a laptop to date (may change as time goes on), I hardly ever use the optical drive on it because of my nas (plus the optical drives are slower than my desktop) and the only concern I have is how often will the battery need replacing as if its yearly that could soon add up.

I also think that the people who will buy the macbook air are probably people who don't need the macbook pro but want a metal chassis, my mother hates the white plastic of the macbook, and I think metal is slightly harder wearing.

eastcoastsurfer
Jan 19, 2008, 10:40 AM
The 777 I flew to Tokyo direct from ATL was a Delta flight, and it had no power in coach. And yes, the flight time was around 14 hours. Then you had an hour or so train ride into the city.

The return flight was only 12ish hours. I guess the jet stream really helps out :)

I checked seatguru and it said Delta is working to have 2 power outlets per 3 seats on the 777s. Hmm...

I guess Delta (and everyone but AA) is considered a third world airline?

j26
Jan 19, 2008, 10:41 AM
This is good news, and allays one of my concerns about the MBA.

Now if only changing the footprint was trivial ;)

AidenShaw
Jan 19, 2008, 11:14 AM
In MacWorld's battery life testing, an MBP undergoing light usage got about half of what Apple claims...

Apple: (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html)

o 15-inch MacBook Pro
--- 60-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery (with integrated charge indicator LEDs) providing up to 6 hours of battery life

MacWorld: (http://www.macworld.com/article/58476/2007/06/macbookprorev.html)

The Santa Rosa chip set, as well as the switch to LED backlighting in the 15-inch models, boosts the MacBook Pros’ battery life.

In our testing, both the 15- and 17-inch models delivered an impressive 3 hours, approximately, of DVD playback. This represents a gain of 11 percent for the 15-inch models and 14 percent for the 17-inch model over the previous generations.

Surprisingly, we didn’t do as well—about 2.5 hours—in our wireless productivity test (writing in Microsoft Word while listening to streaming audio and checking e-mail via AirPort) on the 15-inch unit. Without the streaming audio, however, the batteries lasted just over 3 hours.

jragosta
Jan 19, 2008, 11:50 AM
In MacWorld's battery life testing, an MBP undergoing light usage got about half of what Apple claims...

That is, if your defiinition of 'light usage' is sufficiently bizarre:

"writing in Microsoft Word while listening to streaming audio and checking e-mail via AirPort"

nostaws
Jan 19, 2008, 12:29 PM
Honestly this was my only concern about the computer. I have no problem with the RAM. And I never use my optical drive (except to install an OS).

And I don't necessarily have a problem with the concept of a Apple replaceable battery, but Because I have had SO MANY problems with the mac book pro batteries, that would have really kept me from a Mac Book Air.

Now I am really considering one.

LeviG
Jan 19, 2008, 12:29 PM
Weren't there some updated drivers etc released after that review.

Another aspect is that the 6 hours refer to NON Wireless use where as the macbook air specifically states wireless productivity so the system has to work for 5 hours with wireless or atleast in the UK its false advertising - now their definition and our definition of wireless productivity is probably going to be where the issues begin.

latergator116
Jan 19, 2008, 01:04 PM
Well, I firmly believe that about 60% use is the norm for MacBooks and MacBook Pros. So far I've owned 6 and that's the typical amount I've seen on them, and other MacBooks my colleagues have. And if you browse through those threads on the Apple forums you'll see that many people replying to people worrying they have a broken battery, who say their own batteries are fine/normal, typically report about 60-70% of what Apple state.

If people really care that much then just post a new thread in this forum asking people how long their batteries last in real world use.

Yep, I've always found 60-70% to be true also. I thought this was common knowledge.... not that it matters though, since we obviously have an agenda against Apple.

AidenShaw
Jan 19, 2008, 01:05 PM
That is, if your defiinition of 'light usage' is sufficiently bizarre:

"writing in Microsoft Word while listening to streaming audio and checking e-mail via AirPort"

You are correct. The MacBook Cube Air is not a suitable system for editing documents or using email, and certainly not a system to be used for listening to music.

</sarcasm>

If doing a little editing and checking mail is not light usage, I'm at a loss as to what you would consider to be light usage.

It's not like the test was rendering HD video in Final Cut while running a Photoshop + Lightroom workflow against 10 GB of raw photos. It's editing and checking mail.

Also note that I was generous in saying 50% - with the streaming audio (as you quoted) the MBP got 42% of what Apple claims.


If you're using Word while continuously streaming audio while continuously checking email using WiFi, that's hardly 'light' usage.

Are you saying that the MacBook Cube Air wasn't meant to be used wirelessly then, because the radio draws too much electricity?

My normal laptop use in a meeting or conference is to have the following apps active:


Word - for taking notes on the presentation or discussion
An IM client: this is a "pager" in case something happens back at the office, and often to share comments or questions on the presentation with colleagues in the audience.
Outlook: To watch for urgent email
IE: To write annoying posts to Macrumors.com if the session is boring
WiFi or 3G wireless (usually the built-in 3G EV-DO card - it's everywhere): so that most of the above work


Is the MBCA not suitable to be used like that?

If it's not meant to be used unless you have a power outlet nearby - they should have made it lighter by using a much smaller battery, and advertised it as having a built-in UPS instead of being a portable.

jragosta
Jan 19, 2008, 01:07 PM
If doing a little editing and checking mail is not light usage, I'm at a loss as to what you would consider to be light usage.

That's because your hatred of Apple and Apple products is completely irrational.

If you're using Word while continuously streaming audio while continuously checking email using WiFi, that's hardly 'light' usage.

eastcoastsurfer
Jan 19, 2008, 01:22 PM
That's because your hatred of Apple and Apple products is completely irrational.

If you're using Word while continuously streaming audio while continuously checking email using WiFi, that's hardly 'light' usage.

What are you talking about? Editing a document, with your email up (since you know, you're probably pulling together some info from various emails to edit the document), and listening to music is the very definition of light usage. What is your definition? Staring at the desktop background? Oh wait, you can't do that because light usage means the screen needs to be off...

I'm generally an Apple fan, but I think it's clear that they have headed somewhat astray in their thinking.

jragosta
Jan 19, 2008, 02:54 PM
What are you talking about? Editing a document, with your email up (since you know, you're probably pulling together some info from various emails to edit the document), and listening to music is the very definition of light usage. What is your definition? Staring at the desktop background? Oh wait, you can't do that because light usage means the screen needs to be off...

I'm generally an Apple fan, but I think it's clear that they have headed somewhat astray in their thinking.

Read what it says. Editing a document while streaming audio while continuously checking email via WiFi.

I don't know about you, but when I am editing a document, I don't continuously check email by Wi-Fi. Even if you want to listen to music while editing a document, checking your email ever few minutes would not be necessary. Are you saying you're so OCD you have to check your email continuously?

Oh, and you're not going to be using Wi-F at all when you're on a plane.

flyinmac
Jan 19, 2008, 03:04 PM
Read what it says. Editing a document while streaming audio while continuously checking email via WiFi.

I don't know about you, but when I am editing a document, I don't continuously check email by Wi-Fi. Even if you want to listen to music while editing a document, checking your email ever few minutes would not be necessary. Are you saying you're so OCD you have to check your email continuously?

Oh, and you're not going to be using Wi-F at all when you're on a plane.

I'm not the one you're quoting. But, I'll tell you that I always have my computer's set to check e-mail every 3 minutes or so. And, that is probably what was meant by continuously checking e-mail.

I just set mine to 3 minutes and forget about it. The computer dings whenever a message comes in.

I would consider that light use.

Editing a document with the computer checking e-mail automatically every 3 minutes would seem like very light use to me.

I would agree that it would be a bit weird to have someone constantly checking e-mail themselves. But, setting the computer to check every couple of minutes on an automated repeating schedule is not unusual at all.

I don't like the idea of having the computer check every minute, so I tend to use 3 or 5 minute intervals depending on what the e-mail programs support.

DavoMrMac
Jan 19, 2008, 03:14 PM
Many of you are saying that 6.5, 6, 5, 4 hours... of battery life is not enough for a long haul flight, or business travel.

Are you saying that on say a 12 hour flight, you would want to be staring at your screen for 12 hours? I mean in a normal day, say 10-12 hours of working, I find that I take around one hour for lunch, one hour on calls, one hour for dinner, around an hour doing off-screen activities... do you get where I am going on this.

So on a flight, I would maybe work for three, watch a film on my iPod touch for two, eat, rest, take a walk. So my expected 4-6 hours on a MacBook Air is more than acceptable.

AidenShaw
Jan 19, 2008, 03:28 PM
Are you saying that on say a 12 hour flight, you would want to be staring at your screen for 12 hours?

The argument is that we'd like that option - that staring at the screen for 2 1/2 hours is not enough.

There's also the meeting/conference issue of spending a day in rooms where power might not be available - and 2 1/2 hours is not enough.


So on a flight, I would maybe work for three, watch a film on my iPod touch for two, eat, rest, take a walk. So my expected 4-6 hours on a MacBook Air is more than acceptable.

Then it's a good system for you, if the battery life is in fact that close to the Apple claim.

Other people here are saying that for their laptop usage, 2 1/2 to 5 hours is not acceptable. The MacBook Cube Air is not acceptable for them, and they question the design decision to not have easily swappable batteries.

There's a third group trying to tell the second group that 2 1/2 hours is enough - those are the people who should say "OK, it's not for you" and not follow crazy arguments about what is "light usage" and whether planes have plugs and how many outlets are at an airport gate.

pjarvi
Jan 19, 2008, 03:46 PM
In MacWorld's battery life testing, an MBP undergoing light usage got about half of what Apple claims...

In our testing, both the 15- and 17-inch models delivered an impressive 3 hours, approximately, of DVD playback.)

Try reading what you're quoting. :rolleyes:

elmo151
Jan 19, 2008, 03:56 PM
I have never flown on a seat in which that plug works. I was told that the plug only works if you are in first class. Coach flights that I have taken on Delta, United and Alaskan in the states have not had the plug, nor have United, Quantas or Lufthansa flights internationally.

An easily swapped battery would be nice.

WRONG. check out seatguru (http://www.seatguru.com/)

and:
I did order one
I travel 80% of the time.
If you don't like it don't buy it. and stop wasting space

flyinmac
Jan 19, 2008, 04:13 PM
WRONG. check out seatguru (http://www.seatguru.com/)

and:
I did order one
I travel 80% of the time.
If you don't like it don't buy it. and stop wasting space


What kind of argument is that?????

You quote a website and some 3rd-party's statement that certain airlines and flights have power taps that are activated (or even have them to begin with). That doesn't mean anything.

Just because some document, service, or website says something doesn't make it true.

The state emission center claims that my old truck was never available with a 351 W and therefore wouldn't certify it or permit it to be registered in areas of our state that have emissions requirements.

The EPA also claims that it was not available with a 351 W.

They claim it only came with a 300, a 302, and a 351 M.

But, they did ship with a 351 W. I can go to the dealer and order replacement parts for that truck with a 351 W (Windsor). And, the parts that arrive will bolt on and directly replace the parts on my engine.

So, just because some service or authority says something, doesn't mean it's accurate. After all, if anyone should know what engines were available in the various cars, it should be the EPA and the State run emissions centers. It's their job to know what engines are in which vehicles. But, they wouldn't certify mine just because they claim it wasn't a factory available option for that vehicle.

Of course, I can go to Ford and order parts for it and that engine. Ford has it in their books. But, since it's not in the state's or EPA's documents, it doesn't exist and cannot be certified or passed (it is disqualified on visual inspection alone).

So, just because some website claims there is a power port on a given plane or flight doesn't mean it's true. Them saying it's there won't make it appear when I sit down in the seat on the plane.

Spritey
Jan 19, 2008, 04:31 PM
Yep... Quite right.

I've flown on as long of flights as you can get in the United States, and I have absolutely never (and I mean never) been on a plane with something I could plug a computer into. No power taps anywhere.

Now, if you can come up with a flight longer than Alaska to Florida within the borders of the United States (keeping in-mind that I have to fly past Canada), then I'd like to see where you went.

My flights from Alaska to Texas, Alaska to Florida, Alaska to California, Alaska to Seattle, have never had power taps on their planes.

I've been on repeat trips to several of those destinations, and never had a power tap available yet. And, of course those were all round trip flights, so they had twice the opportunity to provide me with one if they were going to.

I fly 2-3 round trips US/Canada - Europe and within Europe, and I've only had access to power once, which was onboard what appeared to be a brand new plane (or possibly redecorated). Can also mention I fly Air Canada, Icelandair, British Airways, Air France, SAS and KLM.

Granted, I fly economy, but still, even people in economy like to power up their computer once in a while when their battery runs out... Especially considering how sucky the entertainment can be on certain airlines. (And impossible to see the screens on board planes not yet equipped with individual screens).

kuwisdelu
Jan 19, 2008, 04:33 PM
Hmm. About battery....

I don't know about "light usage." I consider my usage during school hours to be pretty "light." Here's my university day.

My MacBook comes with me to my Stats class and remains on for about an hour. Total: 1 hour.

I have English next. I have it off usually, if we're watching a film or if we're discussing. Now I go to the Union for lunch, and the laptop comes back on for about another hour, so I can work and browse while I eat. Total: 2 hours.

Now I have a fun-filled three hours of physics lecture. Here I sit with the other laptop users, most of whom have to plug into the wall, because they don't have as good battery life as me. Most of them have to wait about 5 minutes for their Windows to come back to life from rebooting or stand-by. Now I use happily for the next three hours until the lectures are over, and I start the mile walk back home. Total: 5 hours.

Total use: ~5 hours
Final battery reading: ~15-20% remaning
Configurations: Airport ON, screen minimum brightness
Activities: Browsing with Firefox, chatting with Adium, editing documents with NeoOffice, checking schedule on iCal, checking Dashboard stickies for HW, reading class pdf notes with Skim, and sometimes even running Windows through Fusion to use a program I need for Stats. Oh, and if the lecture is *really* boring, playing Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time on Mupen.

So let's see. On my MacBook, I get at least 5 hours of battery life with Airport on, mostly using Firefox, Adium, and often Skim and NeoOffice. I try to conserve battery with minimum screen brightness and other (what I assume are) normal ways. And I've never ended the day with less than 10% less. Is my MacBook just *that* special, or are the applications I use just not nearly enough for the "average user"?

AidenShaw
Jan 19, 2008, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by AidenShaw
In MacWorld's battery life testing, an MBP undergoing light usage got about half of what Apple claims...

In our testing, both the 15- and 17-inch models delivered an impressive 3 hours, approximately, of DVD playback.)

Try reading what you're quoting. :rolleyes:

I don't understand....

MacWorld is impressed that it will play a 3 hour DVD, when Apple claims 6 hours.

They're less impressed with the test that it plays 2 1/2 hours, when Apple claims 6 hours.


What should I try reading to avoid coming to the conclusion that you can expect 3 hours of actual use from a laptop that claims 6 hours of runtime according to Apple?

AidenShaw
Jan 19, 2008, 05:07 PM
Most of them have to wait about 5 minutes for their Windows to come back to life from rebooting or stand-by.

This statement alone makes me disbelieve every other statement in your post.

Windows takes "5 minutes" to resume from standby? Pure BS.

eastcoastsurfer
Jan 19, 2008, 05:30 PM
Read what it says. Editing a document while streaming audio while continuously checking email via WiFi.

I don't know about you, but when I am editing a document, I don't continuously check email by Wi-Fi. Even if you want to listen to music while editing a document, checking your email ever few minutes would not be necessary. Are you saying you're so OCD you have to check your email continuously?

Oh, and you're not going to be using Wi-F at all when you're on a plane.

So instead of being able to keep mail open and have it do what it's supposed to do over a wifi connection I now have to close certain apps, deal with various configurations because I happen to be on a battery connection? That makes a lot of sense. I guess having 4gb of ram in my mbp is a waste, b/c now I'm only supposed to run one app at a time? Normal/light usage today in 2008 means having access to your mail, editing documents, and playing some music. I think you can even argue it means also doing light editing of pictures, etc... I love how Apple makes a mistake (like charging $20 for an update) or in this case making the air so crippled it'll probably end up like the Cube and the apologist come out the woodwork to still defend it.

redrabbit
Jan 19, 2008, 05:33 PM
isn't the original story, that battery replacement "trivial", just speculation? Noone actually has a macbook air, and seeing one for 3 minutes at Macworld isn't really conclusion, in my opinion

kuwisdelu
Jan 19, 2008, 06:06 PM
This statement alone makes me disbelieve every other statement in your post.

Windows takes "5 minutes" to resume from standby? Pure BS.

I was exaggerating there. But I do hear them complain about it. I don't actually time how long it takes for their computers to start up. I'm mostly referring to boot time, there, although that, too, is telling. It takes less than a minute from my pressing the power button to be able to work; whereas my friend recently installed Vista, and invited us to sit and watch while her laptop started up. It was a long wait.

Okay. Edit my original statement to "Most of them have to wait about 5 minutes for their Windows to come back to life from rebooting; or have to wait a similarly extended time compared relative to my MacBook to return from stand-by." Happy?

Do you really believe it's impossible for me to squeeze that much battery life out of my MacBook? How is that so hard to comprehend? I just don't understand. Like I said, look at what I run... Maybe it's less than most people? I don't edit many pictures during class. Nor do I watch DVDs or listen to music while there's a professor talking. From the sounds of it, that's far less than most people, so that should explain the difference, right?

All I'm saying is I get 5 hours minimum from my MacBook w/ Airport on while browsing with Firefox and other "light usage." If I didn't, I'd have to carry my power cord around, so if I got less than that, I'd be pretty annoyed.

coffey7
Jan 19, 2008, 08:36 PM
I have never owned a Apple product that didn't have much lower battery life than what it was said to have. It will not get 5 hours. I have also never owned an Apple product that I didn't have a problem with the battery and had to have it replaced way too soon.

AidenShaw
Jan 19, 2008, 08:44 PM
Do you really believe it's impossible for me to squeeze that much battery life out of my MacBook?

Let's just say that on the bell curve, you seem to be about two standard deviations to the right.... :)

kuwisdelu
Jan 19, 2008, 08:46 PM
I have never owned a Apple product that didn't have much lower battery life than what it was said to have. It will not get 5 hours. I have also never owned an Apple product that I didn't have a problem with the battery and had to have it replaced way too soon.

You've never had a MacBook get 5 hours? Seriously?

Even without Airport and Bluetooth and any video/music/photo applications going? Even with low brightness?

I can't imagine that. I routinely use mine for at least 5 hours and have always had at least 10% left when I got back home to charge. I just unplugged mine with low brightness and, while writing this, it says "6:36 remaining." I doubt it would run quite that long, but it'll easily run 5 hours.

Like I said before, maybe I just use much fewer applications than most users (decide for yourself) or maybe I just got a "special" MacBook. If mine is special, well, I guess I just got lucky.

clevin
Jan 19, 2008, 08:56 PM
You've never had a MacBook get 5 hours? Seriously?

Even without Airport and Bluetooth and any video/music/photo applications going? Even with low brightness?

I can't imagine that. I routinely use mine for at least 5 hours and have always had at least 10% left when I got back home to charge. I just unplugged mine with low brightness and, while writing this, it says "6:36 remaining." I doubt it would run quite that long, but it'll easily run 5 hours.

Like I said before, maybe I just use much fewer applications than most users (decide for yourself) or maybe I just got a "special" MacBook. If mine is special, well, I guess I just got lucky.

Mine MB only got 3.5 hours when I first got it, and 18 months later, it only lasts 1.5 hours, I called applecare, and they told me 1.5 hours is acceptable.....

coffey7
Jan 19, 2008, 09:00 PM
You've never had a MacBook get 5 hours? Seriously?

Even without Airport and Bluetooth and any video/music/photo applications going? Even with low brightness?

I can't imagine that. I routinely use mine for at least 5 hours and have always had at least 10% left when I got back home to charge. I just unplugged mine with low brightness and, while writing this, it says "6:36 remaining." I doubt it would run quite that long, but it'll easily run 5 hours.

Like I said before, maybe I just use much fewer applications than most users (decide for yourself) or maybe I just got a "special" MacBook. If mine is special, well, I guess I just got lucky.

My macbook was getting only 1 hour and 45 minutes of dvd playback time and only 2.5 hours of web browsing. I took it to an apple store and they gave me a free replacement and it was much better. It was getting almost 4 hours for surfing and at least then I could watch a complete movie. My Ipod Nano is getting just under 2 hours since day one(and the volume is not high). Many IBM thinkpads that have been out for a while have been getting over 8 hours. Or at least thats what cnet is saying.

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-x60s/4505-3121_7-31786426.html

MacFly123
Jan 19, 2008, 09:31 PM
Being that this thing is really aimed for business types or people on the go, isn't anyone else pissed that it doesn't have the Apple Remote for Keynotes etc.???

AidenShaw
Jan 19, 2008, 09:32 PM
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nplm=MB441Z/A

Important notes:
Using the MagSafe Airline Adapter provides power for your computer but does not charge the battery.
The MagSafe Airline Adapter is not compatible with automobile power ports.



Does anyone know why these restrictions exist? My Dell adaptor works in both, and charges (although the Dell laptop won't charge when using a Targus adaptor - apparently there's some communication between the adaptor and the laptop so that the laptop verifies the WHr capacity of the adaptor before allowing charging).

In particular, how can it be compatible with a cigarette lighter receptacle on an airplane, but not work in a car cigarette lighter port?

By the way, lots of info about airplane power at http://www.seatguru.com/articles/in-seat_laptop_power.php (no mention of any mag-safe compatible that I could see, other than the Apple adaptor).

Edit: Is this the reason?

http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/1374/store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/mb441_125.jpg

Oh, so it looks like the Apple MagSafe Airline Adapter® is just a pass-through cable that feeds the EmPower 15v DC straight into the laptop. The Dell and Targus adaptors are small bricks that convert the seat power to the laptop's desired voltage.

Odd that it can't use the ~14v from a car, though.

Note that American and some other airlines that use cigarette lighter plugs can use a device like http://www.wagan.com/htmls/detail-2107.html

http://www.wagan.com/images/powerinverter/detail-2107.gif

for power and charging. (Obviously works in an auto as well)

SiliconAddict
Jan 19, 2008, 11:47 PM
Well... that's one less thing for the whiners to whine about.
Im sure they'll find something to replace it to whine more, though.

Umm not it isn't. Anyone who is a road warrior and is away from the outlet that long takes multiple batteries with them. Hell I have 2 to last me through the entire day. (And no I don't believe that 5 hours is a realistic estimate of battery life.) So yah tell me how many people are going to be willing to drop everything they are doing. Pull out a screwdriver, and go to work on their laptop vs just going with another ultralight laptop which has every feature someone on the road could need, is about as thick as the air on its thick end, and maybe a pound more. (Oh boo ho 4lbs instead of 3lbs.)
This is thin for the sake of thin. It does NOTHING for the end user. The relative difference between carrying a 3lbs laptop and a 4lbs laptop is about the same as carrying a 200 page text book vs a 400 page text book. Its borderline retarded and people are arguing over semantics when it comes to portability. its even funnier when you talk thickness. .15-.75 over 1" thick again is arguing semantics. I saw this same crap done with PDA's. Quibbling over less then a millimeter in those cases.
It does NOTHING for the portability of the system beyond eye candy and occasionally sending the thing via interoffice mail.
Again this is pure eye candy. If Jobs wanted to do something substantial with this product they should have made a thinner replacement to the 12" PowerBook, with LED display, SSD, optical drive, Ethernet, this motherboard inside but with a substantially bigger battery that would take up the extra space to keep you going for 8+ hours. That would have been impressive. Instead Jobs has once again focused on his fetish for all things thin. I'm waiting for the day that a laptop or iPod is released by Apple that is so thin that if you drop it, it will shatter.



Note that American and some other airlines that use cigarette lighter plugs can use a device like http://www.wagan.com/htmls/detail-2107.html

http://www.wagan.com/images/powerinverter/detail-2107.gif

for power and charging. (Obviously works in an auto as well)



I want to know what airlines have these plugs. I've flown American Airlines and Northwest for years and have yet to be on a single plane that has these installed. Guess its a business class thing.????


This statement alone makes me disbelieve every other statement in your post.

Windows takes "5 minutes" to resume from standby? Pure BS.



Psst. You are on an Apple forum. The concept of not talking crap about the competition is rather humorous....sadly.

I would see this in a hotel room, but then you could just plug it into the socket.... the flight.... hmmm... I don't know about that one. I could see screws flying all over the place or even worse... :eek: A PC user with a Sony TZ or that new uber sweet 12" tablet laughing at how Apple users have to go through so much trouble to get their ultra portable up to the standards of the PC versions.

When you do get to screw your battery back in though... I am sure they will be amazed at the multi-touch trackpad and backlit keyboard..


I think flying screws would be the least of your concerns. Lets see. You are taking the back of your laptop off, removing a battery pack. The wrong person sees that and they are going to think bomb and panic. Because god knows we've never seen anyone overreact to a harmless device.
*coughs*http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/09/24/hoodie.jpg*coughs*
you'll be lucky if you came out of the experience with only a black eye.

AidenShaw
Jan 20, 2008, 12:07 AM
I want to know what airlines have these plugs. I've flown American Airlines and Northwest for years and have yet to be on a single plane that has these installed. Guess its a business class thing.????

Go to http://www.seatguru.com and look up the airlines.

American seems to be the leader in this regard, most of their planes are covered in first class and the forward part of coach (for example, http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_MD-80.php).

Northwest seems to be missing in action.

Flying trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific in business class, I almost always find power outlets at the seats. American, Qantas, JAL, Cathay, Singapore, BA and others put the plugs at the seats. I have a trip to Hong Kong, Singapore, Bangalore and Tokyo the end of next month - all business class, and power to the seat on every flight. (E.g. http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/whatonboard/businessclass#) Of course, each plane ticket is roughly the price of an MBP, so it's not like I'm saving money on swappable batteries ;) ...

Seatguru.com is great for arranging for a seat with a plug on flights within the US.

However, even when I have reserved a seat with power, I still bring my swappable batteries. A few times either the power isn't working on that plane that day, or it isn't working in the seat or row that I'm in. If I *need* to get work done on the plane, I don't depend on the on-board power - I bring a couple of extra batteries in my laptop bag. And more often than not, in fact I *need* to customize my presentations for the target customers on the flight to the meeting. Running out of juice is not an option.

Also, and I have no idea if this applies to Apples as well, some laptops will only run in power-saving modes when on batteries - so that they're noticeably faster when plugged in. This applies to the Dell Core 2 systems, so I'll always plug in even if I don't need to for runtime.

It makes Internet Explorer snappier.

kuwisdelu
Jan 20, 2008, 12:27 AM
In case anyone's interested, I've been running my MacBook for about 3 1/2 hours now on battery, full brightness, Airport on. I've been browsing the internet and doing some photo editing. I'm at 36% battery.

AidenShaw
Jan 20, 2008, 02:47 PM
In case anyone's interested, I've been running my MacBook for about 3 1/2 hours now on battery, full brightness, Airport on. I've been browsing the internet and doing some photo editing. I'm at 36% battery.

It looks like there is a high degree of variance in the battery lifetime of these systems. Some people are reporting twice as much lifetime as others - for systems and loads that otherwise seem very similar.

I hope that it's just a coincidence that Apple's advertised claims are at the very high end of the range. It would be disappointing to discover that Apple tested dozens or hundreds of systems, and used the best ones for the advertised specs. :eek:

On the other hand, perhaps only a small percentage of the systems have poor battery life - but those "squeeky wheels" are what show up often in discussions.

nemaslov
Jan 20, 2008, 03:00 PM
Don't know if there is a comment about trying to bring a screwdriver on an airplane to replace your spare battery when the first one dies :mad::confused:

tcoleman
Jan 20, 2008, 03:00 PM
isn't the original story, that battery replacement "trivial", just speculation? Noone actually has a macbook air, and seeing one for 3 minutes at Macworld isn't really conclusion, in my opinion

The "trivial" itself is highly speculative. In my world, using a screwdriver does not rank trivial on the difficulty scale. Sliding out the battery pack and sliding in a new one is "trivial"; breaking out a screwdriver is not.

kuwisdelu
Jan 20, 2008, 03:40 PM
It looks like there is a high degree of variance in the battery lifetime of these systems. Some people are reporting twice as much lifetime as others - for systems and loads that otherwise seem very similar.

I hope that it's just a coincidence that Apple's advertised claims are at the very high end of the range. It would be disappointing to discover that Apple tested dozens or hundreds of systems, and used the best ones for the advertised specs. :eek:

On the other hand, perhaps only a small percentage of the systems have poor battery life - but those "squeeky wheels" are what show up often in discussions.

As a Stats major, I know not to rely on anectodal evidence such as mine or anyone else's here, really. Evidence on a forum such as this will almost always be bias toward the negative. You're certainly right that those who are upset about their low battery life are more likely to post about their experience than those who are satisfied.

That said, it's still hard to say exactly where the mean battery life lies. The tests mentioned before done by 3rd parties have all involved much more than "light" usage. DVD playback battery life will always be lower than editing a Word document, etc. I don't think DVD play is quite what Apple intended when they posted their own expected battery lives. Look at the difference in battery on iPods between music v. video play.

Without more randomly sampled data, it's still impossible to come to any particular conclusion. Certainly there's variation, but most people who've posted shorter battery lives haven't said what they're using their computer for during that time. Either way, all I can say is it's certainly *possible* for a MacBook to run off battery for five hours.

ncbill
Jan 20, 2008, 04:22 PM
The Macworld reviews I quoted for the MacBook Pro did not involve DVD use, and they all got between 3 and 3.5 hours, at the time Apple quoted a 5.5 hour life.

It's clear from reviewers that you should take Apple's rosy estimates and cut at least a third.

I'm confident in real-world use (editing documents, leaving wireless on to check mail or browse the web, etc.) that the MBA will have an average battery life of around 3 hours when brand-spankin' new.

As a Stats major, I know not to rely on anectodal evidence such as mine or anyone else's here, really. Evidence on a forum such as this will almost always be bias toward the negative. You're certainly right that those who are upset about their low battery life are more likely to post about their experience than those who are satisfied.

That said, it's still hard to say exactly where the mean battery life lies. The tests mentioned before done by 3rd parties have all involved much more than "light" usage. DVD playback battery life will always be lower than editing a Word document, etc. I don't think DVD play is quite what Apple intended when they posted their own expected battery lives. Look at the difference in battery on iPods between music v. video play.

Without more randomly sampled data, it's still impossible to come to any particular conclusion. Certainly there's variation, but most people who've posted shorter battery lives haven't said what they're using their computer for during that time. Either way, all I can say is it's certainly *possible* for a MacBook to run off battery for five hours.

AidenShaw
Jan 20, 2008, 08:32 PM
I'm confident in real-world use (editing documents, leaving wireless on to check mail or browse the web, etc.) that the MBA will have an average battery life of around 3 hours when brand-spankin' new.

And I'm confident in saying that when I leave home for a meeting where I need 3 hours of runtime, or leave home for the airport for a flight where I need 3 hours of runtime - I won't have a MacBook Cube Air in my bag. I'll have a laptop that lets me bring along a spare swappable battery.

Thanks for reminding me - I need to print my boarding pass for tomorrow's flight. (American, MD83, seat 3F with power port) http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_MD-80.php

j26
Jan 21, 2008, 01:26 AM
There's lots of discussion about flights and such, but let me take you through my typical day (and I recognise that I am not a typical user).

I'm on the train at 06:10 until 08:45 (2:35) and in class from 9:00 to 10:45 (1:45). That's 4:20 before I (maybe) get near a socket. I'm in class again from 13:30 to 15:15 (1:45) and back home on the train at 16:25, arriving home at 19:10 (2:35), so that's another 4:20 by the time I get home. I do my study on the train. In total I would like my computer operational for 8:40 every day, but I NEED at least 7.

Obviously I don't get that out of a Macbook, so I have to join in the scramble for power points every day. Because of this, and the uncertainty as to whether I'll get somewher to do a decent charge, I still have to carry books etc that I have scanned, because of the power issue, which is a pain, considering the amount I travel.

If the MBA could give me a reliable 7 hours a day (light use - pdf reading, wp, some wireless), I'd be reasonably happy with it, as I could leave in the morning with just the MBA.

Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case, and I have other concerns, including aesthetics, performance and price, so for the moment I'll pass.

headfuzz
Jan 21, 2008, 07:46 AM
Don't know if there is a comment about trying to bring a screwdriver on an airplane to replace your spare battery when the first one dies :mad::confused:

My thoughts exactly. Regardless of whether it invalidates your warranty there is no way in the current geopolitical climate you are going anywhere near a plane with a screwdriver in your hand luggage. :rolleyes:

LeviG
Jan 21, 2008, 10:34 AM
Actually having had time to think on this. I can actually see a whole market for 'add on' batteries for the macbook air which can either charge or power the device. Make them the same dimensions as the macbook air, the weight isn't going to be much more than a second battery and as long as it isn't too thick it will fit in any laptop bag designed for the macbook. In theory you could get a macbook air with twice (or more) the battery life.

They're already out there for ipods and theres some for windows laptops too iirc.

Admittedly not quite as nice a finish as the all in one approach but if its styled nicely why not.

andrewface
Jan 21, 2008, 10:45 AM
sweet

headfuzz
Jan 21, 2008, 10:47 AM
Actually having had time to think on this. I can actually see a whole market for 'add on' batteries for the macbook air which can either charge or power the device. Make them the same dimensions as the macbook air, the weight isn't going to be much more than a second battery and as long as it isn't too thick it will fit in any laptop bag designed for the macbook. In theory you could get a macbook air with twice (or more) the battery life.

They're already out there for ipods and theres some for windows laptops too iirc.

Admittedly not quite as nice a finish as the all in one approach but if its styled nicely why not.

Because it completely defeats the purpose of paying a premium for a thin laptop if the first thing you have to do is buy a battery which doubles its thickness...

diamond.g
Jan 21, 2008, 10:53 AM
Actually having had time to think on this. I can actually see a whole market for 'add on' batteries for the macbook air which can either charge or power the device. Make them the same dimensions as the macbook air, the weight isn't going to be much more than a second battery and as long as it isn't too thick it will fit in any laptop bag designed for the macbook. In theory you could get a macbook air with twice (or more) the battery life.

They're already out there for ipods and theres some for windows laptops too iirc.

Admittedly not quite as nice a finish as the all in one approach but if its styled nicely why not.

Pretty sure Apple isn't releasing the Magsafe patents. If they have, then there should be 3rd party power bricks for the notebooks by now.

LeviG
Jan 21, 2008, 11:07 AM
Pretty sure Appel isn't releasing the Magsafe patents. If they have, then there should be 3rd party power bricks for the notebooks by now.

thats trivial for a nice chinese company :D

AidenShaw
Jan 21, 2008, 11:13 AM
Actually having had time to think on this. I can actually see a whole market for 'add on' batteries for the macbook air which can either charge or power the device. Make them the same dimensions as the macbook air, the weight isn't going to be much more than a second battery and as long as it isn't too thick it will fit in any laptop bag designed for the macbook.

APC has a nice line of these for laptops, many of them also have USB power ports, so devices can be charged via USB without the laptop being involved.

http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=358

http://www.apcc.com/resource/images/family/primary/358_fam.jpg


Because it completely defeats the purpose of paying a premium for a thin laptop if the first thing you have to do is buy a battery which doubles its thickness...

It does point out a serious design shortcoming, though, if the laptop requires such an external battery.

On the other hand, when the normal 2 1/2 hour runtime is enough you'll have the lightweight system. Also, no matter how long the runtime on the internal battery is, there will be times when it's not enough. An external would come in handy there.


Pretty sure Appel isn't releasing the Magsafe patents. If they have, then there should be 3rd party power bricks for the notebooks by now.

All APC would need to do is to provide an EmPower adaptor - then you could use the Apple airplane magsafe cord.

And, of course, Apple could license the magsafe connector to some chosen vendors.

SheriffParker
Jan 21, 2008, 11:20 AM
MacBook Cube Air

One thing that's different: You can take the MBA with you when you go out, so everyone can see how cool you are. The cube only made you cool at home. Big difference. But I do get the analogy nonetheless. :)

AidenShaw
Jan 21, 2008, 11:41 AM
One thing that's different: You can take the MBA with you when you go out, so everyone can see how cool you are. The cube only made you cool at home. Big difference.

LOL - remember

Everybody talks about specs, but we know Apple will give us decent power, ram , screen, etc.

Lets face the truth - we want something that looks TOTALLY COOL!

I walked into Sbux a few months back with my iPhone and I was surrounded by chicks. (all the cute sbux staff)

OK, so the iPhone is not news any more, but for a few weeks there I was a FRICKIN' CHICK MAGNET!

It happened about 5 or 6 times.

I want that again.

Apple, make me cool again. Please. I will pay anything you want, just give me the coolest laptop ever.

SheriffParker
Jan 21, 2008, 01:01 PM
Here is another great thing...

If you don't buy one, you can't bitch about it! Gotta love it!

Oh that's not true at all. People bitch about products that they don't have all the time. :)