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MacRumors
Jan 19, 2008, 01:04 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With the release of the Penryn-based Mac Pros (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/08/apple-announces-penryn-mac-pros-and-xserve/) only two weeks ago, Apple introduced a new video card option for the Mac Pros -- the NVIDIA GeForce 8800GT. Existing Mac Pro owners saw this is an opportunity to upgrade from current cards as well as ailing X1900XT cards (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1304962).

Despite an upgrade-kit becoming available on the Apple Store, Apple quickly contacted those who ordered the video cards to clarify that the 8800GT would only work on the most recently released Penryn Mac Pros. This led one user to jot off an angry letter to Steve Jobs who reportedly responded (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=413104):I suggest you calm down. Everyone knows the issue and it is being worked.
Steve
Today, a statement (http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/18/geforce-8800-gt-upgrade-causes-headaches-for-some-mac-pro-users/) from NVIDIA's Director of PR confirmed that a fix was on the way: the company is "in the middle of bringing out an upgrade kit based on the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT solution for all Intel-based Mac Pros." What's more, this upgrade kit "should be out in a few weeks."

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/19/nvidia-8800gt-option-for-older-mac-pros-soon/)



island
Jan 19, 2008, 01:07 PM
I would be very happy about this but since they are swapping my Mac Pro for the latest one, oh well :P

Eidorian
Jan 19, 2008, 01:08 PM
It's about time a we got some kind of third party video card kit for Macs. Didn't XFX say they were going to make them for the Power Mac G4 ages ago? :rolleyes:

Eric Lewis
Jan 19, 2008, 01:09 PM
yeah! this is such good news

knome
Jan 19, 2008, 01:09 PM
yayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayay. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D I've wanted to get rid of my 1900 for ever. The card itself isn't that bad i just really don't like ATI's driver support. The card does pretty well in osx. I can still tell its a bottleneck, but not by much. In Vista on the other hand trying to play Crysis it is incredibly apparent. But then again that game beats the **** out of any computer.

Nick012
Jan 19, 2008, 01:18 PM
Surely the dear leader meant to say worked on...

twoodcc
Jan 19, 2008, 01:26 PM
great news! depending on price, i will probably get one for my mac pro

ariza910
Jan 19, 2008, 01:35 PM
What's with all the hostility lately toward Apple? Is it that Apple isn't doing a good enough job explaining these things or are people out for blood?

This 8800 video card -> Apple and Nvidia still working on the software for it - it just came out a few weeks ago!

iPod Touch $20 upgrade -> the $20 probably went to pay for that Skyhook service part of the Google maps

Non-removable Mac Air battery -> replacement is as easy as removing a few screws. Laptop probably had to be designed that way to get it so slim.


I am trying to give Apple the benefit of the doubt here instead of thinking there is this mass conspiracy by Apple to screw all its loyal users. What do you guys think?

Oh and where is the angry letter from the user? I would like to see what ticked Steve off enough to shoot out that response/

shoulin333
Jan 19, 2008, 01:39 PM
not like there aren't ways to make it work right now..

Ha ze
Jan 19, 2008, 01:45 PM
Oh and where is the angry letter from the user? I would like to see what would tick off Steve enough to shoot off that response/

Agreed, that would be nice to read.

Chryx
Jan 19, 2008, 01:46 PM
I'm starting to think perhaps it's not merely not supported on the older mac pro's at present because they don't have drivers for it.... which are coming in 10.5.2... in a few weeks... ?

The EFI32 / 64 excuse that was being bandied about didn't hold water for me.

Wild-Bill
Jan 19, 2008, 01:48 PM
Apple could avoid all this bad P.R. if they worked on their communication skills a bit better, instead of being silent on the whole thing.

And as far as the poster above who said "the 8800GT has only been out for a few weeks", well that just isn't correct. It's been out for about two months now. Apple has had PLENTY of time to get this card ready. The fact of the matter is, they had ZERO intention of offering an 8800GT upgrade kit for pre-2008 Mac Pro owners. They'd rather you buy an entirely new system.

Since they are no longer on the PPC platform, they are out of excuses. And I guarantee you that this "fix" coming out from nVidia was the sole result of Apple users bitching (and rightfully so) about being shut out of an upgrade path.

Apple needs to wake the hell up and realize that those games won't work anymore.

The pre-2008 Mac Pro languished for 512 days before it was updated. Apple had PLENTY of time, and quite frankly should have seen this coming. If the Mac Pro manager hasn't been fired yet, I would expect him to receive a pink slip soon.

Lixivial
Jan 19, 2008, 01:48 PM
Oh and where is the angry letter from the user? I would like to see what ticked Steve off enough to shoot out that response/

It's in the link in the original post, but here it is (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4740679&postcount=21).

jbernie
Jan 19, 2008, 01:53 PM
What's with all the hostility lately toward Apple? Is it that Apple isn't doing a good enough job explaining these things or are people out for blood?

This 8800 video card -> Apple and Nvidia still working on the software for it - it just came out a few weeks ago!

iPod Touch $20 upgrade -> the $20 probably went to pay for that Skyhook service part of the Google maps

Non-removable Mac Air battery -> replacement is as easy as removing a few screws. Laptop probably had to be designed that way to get it so slim.


I am trying to give Apple the benefit of the doubt here instead of thinking there is this mass conspiracy by Apple to screw all its loyal users. What do you guys think?

Oh and where is the angry letter from the user? I would like to see what would tick off Steve enough to shoot off that response/

Unfortunately as the company gets bigger and more and more people buy the products you bring more and more attention to what you do. There are benifits to being a small quirky company as opposed to a market leader.

If i was to try and pin point one thing, i would go with it being the fact that Apple doesn't appear to explain some of their decisions very well. This is how it is and you the customer will take it.

The $20 update for the iPod touch. One one hand i can see them offering "services" and enhanced features so a charge is justified. On the other hand, i can see it as just a software update and that same software already exists on the iPhone, and that $20 does a very good job of blurring the price difference between the two devices.

There maybe a very good explanation for the cost, but in saying that, the non Apple fans of the world will be very unforgiving to Apple late on when it comes to upgrading. Its $x to buy plus another few $$ for this and yet more $$ for that.

jamilecrire
Jan 19, 2008, 02:05 PM
Are you going to be able to run SLI? It looks like they've got 4 PCI Express slots available.

ungraphic
Jan 19, 2008, 02:14 PM
Are you going to be able to run SLI? It looks like they've got 4 PCI Express slots available.

only if you have an SLI connector on the cards themselves. can anyone confirm this?

however, SLI is not supported in OS X, but it does work in windows if using hacked drivers. ive got myself a pair of 7300 GTs from apple with an asus flex sli bridge and using hacked nvidia drivers, the cards run far better than withut a bridge, and a ton faster than a single card.

furthermore, i think its pretty ridiculous for apple to ship the 7300 GTs, as they are apple branded cards, put an SLI connector on them but *not* have any SLI compatibility in OS X. Given that, why did they bother with the SLI connector on the cards?

Mindfield
Jan 19, 2008, 02:15 PM
People get to play their CS:S with 1440 x 1280 res and 8x AA via BootCamp :D

Mattww
Jan 19, 2008, 02:24 PM
If this news is true it is great news :)

All we need now is AMD/ATI to announce a retail card so we can be confident that this kind of situation won't arise again when the next generation of Mac Pro models arrive. I know AMD/ATI have had enough problems of there own but this 8800GT issue shows there is a market for aftermarket cards.

pknz
Jan 19, 2008, 02:26 PM
Just wondering if they will put a surcharge for the privilege of using the card on the older Mac Pro.

JoeCo0611
Jan 19, 2008, 02:28 PM
Why doesn't Apple create a division in their company, like BFG and XFX and the other third party Graphics card designers? Couldn't Apple purchase the nVidia and ATi's GPUs and build their graphics board around it? I would think an Apple line of graphics cards for the mac pro would be very enticing to people, now having a choice and easy way to upgrade without buying a new system.

crazycat
Jan 19, 2008, 02:33 PM
That great news indeed, i am hoping for more graphics card updates for my mac in the future. I myself have the ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB and i wonder if the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT will be faster.

jamilecrire
Jan 19, 2008, 02:33 PM
Just wondering if they will put a surcharge for the privilege of using the card on the older Mac Pro.

Don't you pay a surcharge for almost anything you buy for a Mac?

BTW Arsenal FTW!

brendon2020
Jan 19, 2008, 03:13 PM
This is great news, i was actually at the apple store today and almost bought the new mac pro.

Keebler
Jan 19, 2008, 03:19 PM
i might just upgrade to this card depending on the price.
i don't game, but photoshop and final cut might be happy with me if i do :)

AppleNewton
Jan 19, 2008, 03:36 PM
does this mean a universal card? so say i purchase one for my 2.66ghz 2007 MacPro-Quad and i decide later down the road i want to get a new MacPro-Octo. could i swap between them?

thanks! =)


:apple:

freiheit
Jan 19, 2008, 03:53 PM
This 8800 video card -> Apple and Nvidia still working on the software for it - it just came out a few weeks ago!

Given that there should be nothing at all about the new Mac Pro which makes a video card for it incompatible with the previous Mac Pro, I'd say anger is justified. This perpetual and completely unjustified incompatibility with older systems even when the interface used is the same is quite annoying to users who might like to keep their computer for a couple of years but get a little extra oomph from an upgrade. If the Mac Pro's video isn't supposed to be user upgradeable, then it ought to be built onto the mainboard like in the iMac. Otherwise it's a slap in the face to give an upgrade card that can't be used in a system which is virtually identical except for the processor and RAM speeds.

G5 Power Mac PCIe video cards can't be used in the Gen 1 Mac Pro.

Gen 1 Mac Pro PCIe video cards can't be used in the G5 Power Mac PCIe.

Gen 2 Mac Pro PCIe video cards can't be used in the gen 1 Mac Pro.

Meanwhile I can buy a GeForce 7800 with an AGP connector and it will work in my IBM-compatible PC which was built in the age of the GeForceFX. There's something to be said for backward compatibility. Apple is not known for offering it and they're not getting any better about it.

ammon
Jan 19, 2008, 03:54 PM
This is very exciting news. While my x1900xt has been performing well gaming in boot camp, it isn't keeping up with the new games. Bring it on!!


Apple had to see this one coming. How it was overlooked is beyond me. They should have planned to have the card work in all Mac Pros from day 1.

fleacat
Jan 19, 2008, 03:56 PM
How much of performance gain do we expect from this card compared to 1900XT card? Does anybody know? It seems like an exciting news, though. I had had no problem with 1900XT until I played Crysis. I hope I can play that game with a bit higher setting. :)

freiheit
Jan 19, 2008, 03:57 PM
Just wondering if they will put a surcharge for the privilege of using the card on the older Mac Pro.

Well, the GeForce 8800GT for PCs is under $300 and for the Mac it's $350. There's already a surcharge there. And it's not even a retail card. The retail card for the Mac will surely be even more expensive. Expect to pay $400 for essentially the same card PC users can get for $250 -- oh, but they've added EFI compatibility which the PC will also be requiring in the not too distant future. I'm sure they'll find a way to still make them incompatible even when they both support EFI.

Darkroom
Jan 19, 2008, 03:57 PM
that's funny! bazillionaire steve e-lecturing some bratty consumer... but it doesn't sound like steve... maybe if he wrote "i suggest you doggonit calm down" then it would be real for sure.

deathshrub
Jan 19, 2008, 04:05 PM
I myself have the ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB and i wonder if the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT will be faster.

It will be much faster. Benchmarks here:

http://www.apple.com/macpro/technology/graphics.html

theBB
Jan 19, 2008, 04:14 PM
And as far as the poster above who said "the 8800GT has only been out for a few weeks", well that just isn't correct. It's been out for about two months now. Apple has had PLENTY of time to get this card ready.
Umm, drivers are the responsibility of the vendors and I cannot blame NVIDIA for putting a bigger priority on Windows drivers.


The fact of the matter is, they had ZERO intention of offering an 8800GT upgrade kit for pre-2008 Mac Pro owners. They'd rather you buy an entirely new system.
Yes, and one nasty email shook them so much that they changed course right away. Darn it, they thought they could sneak this without anybody noticing.

With this much anger, please refrain from driving so that nobody gets hurt in real life.

boast
Jan 19, 2008, 04:21 PM
Umm, drivers are the responsibility of the vendors and I cannot blame NVIDIA for putting a bigger priority on Windows drivers.
.

took them a while to create linux drivers for the 8800

digitalbiker
Jan 19, 2008, 04:27 PM
Umm, drivers are the responsibility of the vendors and I cannot blame NVIDIA for putting a bigger priority on Windows drivers.

Uhm, not with Apple.

Apple writes thier own drivers not ATI or Nvidia. That's one of the principle reasons why mac graphics are always behind PC graphics. The drivers from Apple are never as good as the drivers from the vendors themselves.

JackAxe
Jan 19, 2008, 04:27 PM
It's actually Apple's responsibility to prep the driver's for OS X, not NVidia.

<]=)

carlos700
Jan 19, 2008, 04:46 PM
G5 Power Mac PCIe video cards can't be used in the Gen 1 Mac Pro.

Gen 1 Mac Pro PCIe video cards can't be used in the G5 Power Mac PCIe.

Gen 2 Mac Pro PCIe video cards can't be used in the gen 1 Mac Pro.

The third circumstance is the only one I find unreasonable. The first two probably relate to different firmware built in the ROM. Simply put PowerPC architecture and Intel x86 architectures require different code. Apple never has been a company that goes out of their way to ensure cross-architecture compatibility for hardware—with the exception of Pentium processor cards for the original Power Macintosh series.

digitalbiker
Jan 19, 2008, 05:00 PM
It will be much faster. Benchmarks here:

http://www.apple.com/macpro/technology/graphics.html

So how does that benchmark relate to the X1900 512MB card in a macpro? Are there any direct comparisons yet and with more than a quake 3 frame rate score?

Also, isn't quake 3 one of those games that optimized to specifically perform better on an nvidia card?

stantheman
Jan 19, 2008, 05:07 PM
the company is "in the middle of bringing out an upgrade kit based on the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT solution for all Intel-based Mac Pros." What's more, this upgrade kit "should be out in a few weeks."

Well this is great news for all Macpro users. Though I sincerely hope, they
will also consider people like myself, who own a quad G5 with pci-express.

I know it is another firmware yet (OpenFirmware and not EFI) but I would
really feel left out...

I have been also waiting for a new grafics card, and am not happy with the limited option of the ATI X1900.

I bought the G5 at the time thinking the pci express architecture would prove a future safe asset for upcoming upgrades,
I still run a GeForce 6600 in it...

Come on Apple & Nvidia, do the decent thing and don´t leave us out!

MattInOz
Jan 19, 2008, 05:16 PM
Surely the dear leader meant to say worked on...

Guess he doesn't like typing on iPhone keyboard as much as he made out :D

jjmaximum
Jan 19, 2008, 05:32 PM
Agreed, that would be nice to read.

Better yet, I would like to see him tell it Job's face...:eek:

akadmon
Jan 19, 2008, 05:41 PM
Great news! I'm fine with what I have now (7300GT), but it's good to know I'll be able to upgrade down the road and keep my MP for at least one more year longer than I otherwise would for relatively little money.

carlgo
Jan 19, 2008, 06:02 PM
It seems that at least 50% of the complaints about Apple computers has to do with video cards.

Apple: please make all video cards on all machines replaceable so we don't have to hear about it anymore. Yes, surely only a small percentage of the complainers would know if you put in a cracker instead, but still...

There are surely good corporate reasons behind the card thing, but maybe people would be happier and you could sell updates and make money where none is now being made.

macintel4me
Jan 19, 2008, 06:04 PM
I just ordered by new Mac Pro with the 8800 GT video card. Do you feel the love? :cool:

Wild-Bill
Jan 19, 2008, 06:04 PM
Yes, and one nasty email shook them so much that they changed course right away. Darn it, they thought they could sneak this without anybody noticing.

With this much anger, please refrain from driving so that nobody gets hurt in real life.

It was more than just "one nasty e-mail". Know what you're talking about before you post. Nice troll post. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

zorinlynx
Jan 19, 2008, 06:25 PM
Okay, question. I hope everyone is listening:

Has anyone actually TRIED the 8800, ordered from Apple, in the older Mac Pro and *CONFIRMED* that it doesn't work?

Reason I ask? The darn things aren't even supposed to ship for another couple of weeks. Yet everyone is nay-saying that they don't work.

Yes, Apple *claims* they don't work, but they also claim the 2600HD doesn't work, and several people have already confirmed that it does.

So therefore: Do we have any conclusive proof (other than speculation) that this card won't work? Because I'm seeing a lot of bitching and whining but no one providing hard evidence, such as "It didn't get past the bong" or "I heard a bong but got a black screen".

We need to know if it REALLY doesn't work before blasting Apple. Because Apple says the 2600HD doesn't work, yet it does. Geeee...

faumble
Jan 19, 2008, 06:26 PM
Will this 8800 nvidia be cheaper than the $350 kit apple has for the macpro?

chubad
Jan 19, 2008, 06:33 PM
Now if I could update my card in my G-5 Quad I would be a happy camper. Apple really needs to get better at upgrades for it's pro machines. The cards can easily be swapped except for the small fact that drivers are not available.

LizKat
Jan 19, 2008, 06:46 PM
What's with all the hostility lately toward Apple? <snip>

I am tired of it myself. It isn't directed just at Apple, of course. It gets aimed at anyone bringing anything to market or tweaking anything that's already out in the marketplace. Anyway it's tiresome, narcissistic and juvenile, regardless of whether it's coming from trolls, spoiled brats, competitors, stock speculators or just ordinary people without any sense of perspective and with an actual and burning concern about some (possibly misunderstood) aspect of a new product.

The hostile tone has seemed much worse with iPhone and MacBook Air rollouts than in earlier times. In 1985 I don't remember anyone actually trying to dissuade me from getting a Mac512k. I remember a few people saying that it was pretty expensive. Which it was. The choice was mine. The choice is still mine but I'm glad I'm not a novice computer buyer any more with all the agendas that get aired out during a rollout now.

It's pathetic to expect from other human beings a level of perfection that one cannot even begin to approach personally. To those who are whining about the MacBook Air not having a Penryn chip: Do you think Intel and Apple sat down a few months ago and decided to make a MacBook Air? When, exactly, should they have started thinking about which chip to squash? Last week? WTF?! Because you can possibly make a half-assed peanut butter sandwich in the time it takes for a TV commercial to air, that does not mean Apple and Intel should consider your amazing skill portable to their project.

It's shameful to so disrespect the talent, spirit, skills and hard work of the people who show up day after day to help Apple and Intel (or any other companies) bring a new product to market.

It's reprehensible to pile on negative feedback in the service of a personal agenda that has nothing to do with the quality of a new product. For instance, if you hope your product bashing will drop the stock to your buy level, or you work for a competitor and think bashing Apple's rollout will save your own product from competition in the marketplace, shame on you.

Honest and earnest competition is what helps improve product lines. Product-bashing is not a constructive part of competition. The time to bash on something is back during project development when you try to tear the wheels off the prototype so they won't fall off the real thing later. The time for public wishlist-polishing is not hours and days immediately post-rollout. No engineer that worked on this stuff gives a flying feather what we think about the thing on rollout day. They are not listening, especially to juvie whiners and trolls. They're either sleeping or rejoicing that they lived through the experience, or patiently slogging through bug reports and trying to fix them before a ship date or maintenance release.

OK... steps off soapbox... I'm done preaching. I think that I hear someone playing Rogue Wave in the background... I've enough grace to blush :o but I'm going to post anyway.

"I've had enough of your sermonized speeches;
it was the food that I wanted."

--(Rogue Wave's Medicine Ball, in Descended Like Vultures).


PS and totally off topic: I just noticed a delicious improvement in iPhone sync. It lets you do manual sync of music and video now, which is my preferred way to refresh my selections. I am not sure when that showed up since I don't doctor on my iPhone as often as on some of my iPods. Maybe it was in the most recent iTunes or iPhone updates. Anyway I am sooooooooo delighted. THANK YOU Apple :)

fandsw
Jan 19, 2008, 06:56 PM
Okay, question. I hope everyone is listening:

Has anyone actually TRIED the 8800, ordered from Apple, in the older Mac Pro and *CONFIRMED* that it doesn't work?



The developers at Blizzard (Diablo, Starcraft, etc.) use Mac Pros, and they were the ones who came out and confirmed that it wouldn't work.

brendon2020
Jan 19, 2008, 06:57 PM
people with the 1900xt, how does that run with current games (excluding crysis) tf2, ut3, fear, hl2, quake 4, bf2142.

Detlev_73
Jan 19, 2008, 07:26 PM
Seriously folks, that letter which a so-called adult wrote is way too condescending, aggressive, and childish. That person really needs to chill out: is s/he really that "my way, right away" bratty, jeez folks!? I would have liked a MacBook Air WITH the SSD for around $1799, but I'm not stomping my feet on the ground, crying and carrying on like a baby in the middle of the grocery store, just because his mommy didn't get him a Dora the Explorer lollipop.

Tomorrow is another day, and Apple will continue to work on amazing products that will blow PC-lackeys socks off.

Get a grip. Be happy, or you'll probably die of a heart attack way too young. :)

xenotaku
Jan 19, 2008, 07:32 PM
seems like a carbon copy of iBank.

Wild-Bill
Jan 19, 2008, 07:38 PM
Seriously folks, that letter which a so-called adult wrote is way too condescending, aggressive, and childish. That person really needs to chill out: is s/he really that "my way, right away" bratty, jeez folks!? I would have liked a MacBook Air WITH the SSD for around $1799, but I'm not stomping my feet on the ground, crying and carrying on like a baby in the middle of the grocery store, just because his mommy didn't get him a Dora the Explorer lollipop.

Tomorrow is another day, and Apple will continue to work on amazing products that will blow PC-lackeys socks off.

Get a grip. Be happy, or you'll probably die of a heart attack way too young. :)

:rolleyes:
You don't own a pre-2008 Mac Pro, DO you? Your Macbook Air analogy is irrelevant.

John.B
Jan 19, 2008, 07:49 PM
Given that there should be nothing at all about the new Mac Pro which makes a video card for it incompatible with the previous Mac Pro...
...Maybe not. There was a discussion on Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/18/geforce-8800-gt-upgrade-causes-headaches-for-some-mac-pro-users/comments/9919480/) today about backward compatible EFI32 support being overlooked in the firmware for Apple's version of the 8800GT. Apparently the new Mac Pro boxes use EFI64? If so, it would seem like an easy fix.

SolidShadow
Jan 19, 2008, 07:59 PM
This is good news for me. I bought the Macpro this summer with the intention of upgrading the video card. I was disappointed with the incompatibility news. Thanks Apple. My card is ready to purchase the upgrade as soon as it's available.

pyramid6
Jan 19, 2008, 08:15 PM
I was going to buy a cheap iMac because I considered the Mac Pros as non-upgradable now. This may change my mind. I'm waiting to see about processors.

P6

coffey7
Jan 19, 2008, 08:32 PM
I have had a much better card than this one for months already. Apple should get better cards into machines faster so people can play windows games at full res. I made a custom pc and put in a GTX overclocked 768(or some thing). Apple machines have tons of power but have weak video cards for games. how would one play Crysis the way it was supposed to be played. High Res. ATI cards stink.

MacTheKnife
Jan 19, 2008, 08:43 PM
Seriously folks, that letter which a so-called adult wrote is way too condescending, aggressive, and childish. That person really needs to chill out: is s/he really that "my way, right away" bratty, jeez folks!? I would have liked a MacBook Air WITH the SSD for around $1799, but I'm not stomping my feet on the ground, crying and carrying on like a baby in the middle of the grocery store, just because his mommy didn't get him a Dora the Explorer lollipop.

Tomorrow is another day, and Apple will continue to work on amazing products that will blow PC-lackeys socks off.

Get a grip. Be happy, or you'll probably die of a heart attack way too young. :)

I disagree completely. The letter was written in a persuasive, yet professional, manner that did not rely on abusive language to convey its tone. On the contrary, I'm quite disgusted with the response. No company should start a response to a customer that is paying thousands of dollars for its products by saying "to calm down". That is truly insulting. Whoever wrote the response should take a lesson in customer service and realize that companies are NOTHING without their customers. That response deserves one of "I suggest you get off your high horse!" :mad:

pesos
Jan 19, 2008, 09:13 PM
Folks, this is the price Apple has always paid for the stability of a closed system.

Why do you think Windoze NT/XP used to blue screen? 99% of the time it was due to 3rd party drivers. Video drivers continue to be the main source of instability on reasonable configured XP machines today - ATi and NVidia care only about performance, not stability. It's the main reason the video subsystem was rewritten in Vista - to separate it from the rest of the core system so a video crash wouldn't bring things down the way it used to.

OS X (and earlier mac OSes) has always enjoyed a certain level of stability simply due to its closed/limited hardware options. Imagine if Microsoft picked 2 dell desktops and 2 dell laptops and locked down their next OS to only work with that hardware.

It's going to be very interesting as Apple continues to gain market share - especially with the gamer/enthusiast crowd. It's a tough rope to walk when trying to provide cutting edge performance and upgradeability while continuing to enjoy the closed system they've always held to. It will definitely call for some staffing upgrades in both r&d and customer service - both are failing somewhat to keep up with apple's sales growth currently...

Bababasjd
Jan 19, 2008, 09:28 PM
It's about time a we got some kind of third party video card kit for Macs. Didn't XFX say they were going to make them for the Power Mac G4 ages ago? :rolleyes:

I dont understqand apple charges a premium for old tech. An 8800gt. I have an 8800GTX ULTA OC, that is probably at least 2 times as fast. IS this some sort of joke. The new nvidia are coming out in a couple of weeks and apple users are still stuck with an 8800gt. WOW Apples laptops and imacs are amazing and they are top of the line, same with ipods and iphone (pricey but worth it), but apple always had an issue with their powermac line. I really suggest apple to take some drastic measures. If apple was priced around other ps users with same graphic capabilites then I would buy one but my desktop is as nice and more powerful price per preformance ratio. I mean people wonder why apple only has about 5-6 percent is because of their pricing. Apple has to cut some corners (but not all) so that they can gain more marketshare. If apple stops using xeons and uses core 2 duo that will sahve off about 1000dollars. Then apple will be marketing to the general public and then sales increase. It is really not that hard apple!

SilverSpy
Jan 19, 2008, 10:37 PM
"I suggest you calm down" haha too funny

Wild-Bill
Jan 19, 2008, 10:44 PM
I dont understqand apple charges a premium for old tech. An 8800gt. I have an 8800GTX ULTA OC, that is probably at least 2 times as fast. IS this some sort of joke.

No. The real joke is: A) the x1900xt "upgrade kit" on Apple's website costs $400.00 U.S. :rolleyes: B) that card is two years old and was EOL'd six months ago and C) they charge $350.00 U.S. for the 8800GT "upgrade kit" (see A). :rolleyes:

That's the real joke. :eek: Charging 4 times the retail value for an EOL'd video card. Apple has always sucked in the video card department. Now that they're on Intel there's no excuse for it anymore.

Wild-Bill
Jan 19, 2008, 10:48 PM
Folks, this is the price Apple has always paid for the stability of a closed system.

Why do you think Windoze NT/XP used to blue screen? 99% of the time it was due to 3rd party drivers. Video drivers continue to be the main source of instability on reasonable configured XP machines today - ATi and NVidia care only about performance, not stability.

Sorry, but your argument holds no weight since Apple writes the drivers for the video cards in its machines, not ATI nor nVidia.

StealthRider
Jan 19, 2008, 11:14 PM
I dont understqand apple charges a premium for old tech. An 8800gt. I have an 8800GTX ULTA OC, that is probably at least 2 times as fast. IS this some sort of joke.

I'm not sure what kind of a difference overclocking makes in performance on the 88GTX, but the 88GT is very close in performance to a standard 88GTX due to some core revisions and other changes.

whimmel
Jan 19, 2008, 11:20 PM
What's with all the hostility lately toward Apple? Is it that Apple isn't doing a good enough job explaining these things or are people out for blood?

I think that a lot of people have switched from Windows and they are used to being angry at the CEO.

mdriftmeyer
Jan 19, 2008, 11:52 PM
"I suggest you calm down" haha too funny
:D

That definitely is something Steve would write. Succinct and to the point.

Bababasjd
Jan 20, 2008, 12:01 AM
I'm not sure what kind of a difference overclocking makes in performance on the 88GTX, but the 88GT is very close in performance to a standard 88GTX due to some core revisions and other changes.

Are you kidding take a look at the Ultra GTX vs the Gt there is a night and day difference.

AidenShaw
Jan 20, 2008, 12:32 AM
I think that a lot of people have switched from Windows and they are used to being angry at the CEO.

Which CEO?

The CEO of the company that made the graphics card?

The CEO of the company that made the GPU on the graphics card?

The CEO of the company that wrote the driver for the GPU on the graphics card?

The CEO of the company that built the system than contains the GPU on the graphics card?

The CEO of the company that wrote the operating system that runs the driver for the GPU on the graphics card?


In other words, your statement is nonsense. Windows users don't blame Redmond for a crappy graphics driver - but Apple users rightfully blame Cupertino for poor graphics support.

dawnraid
Jan 20, 2008, 12:42 AM
Man steves response sounds a little angry.

Virgil-TB2
Jan 20, 2008, 01:48 AM
What's with all the hostility lately toward Apple? ... I've been thinking the same thing.
If I was to guess I would say it's (ironically) probably Apple's own recent popularity that is doing them in.

You have a lot of new users jumping on the platform because it's "cool" now and everyone wants to pretend they were behind the winning team right from the start even though they were not. You also have a lot of long time supporters who are pissed at the new popularity because their favorite marginalised anti-hero is now "mainstream."

The new users are hooked but they begrudge that fact. They sometimes seem to secretly hate the people who supported Apple through the dark years, because now they can see these folks were right all along (and they weren't.) They still lash out on the internet at those imaginary Apple "fanboys" even as they lovingly stroke their new MacBooks in their bedrooms at night. On the other hand, the long-time supporters are proud that the Mac platform is finally getting it's due, but secretly hate all the new adopters who really "don't get" the Apple way.

I'm not sure which category he is in but on this same thread a couple of posts down we have a classic example of the Apple-hater who (bewilderingly) also owns and loves Apple computers.

Here's his post title:
Apple blew it, plain & simple...
some unsupported hate statements here:
...the 8800GT has only been out for a few weeks", well that just isn't correct. It's been out for about two months now. Apple has had PLENTY of time to get this card ready. The fact of the matter is, they had ZERO intention of offering an 8800GT upgrade kit for pre-2008 Mac Pro owners. They'd rather you buy an entirely new system.
some justification for his own bitching here (and more unsupported hate statements):
... I guarantee you that this "fix" coming out from nVidia was the sole result of Apple users bitching (and rightfully so) about being shut out of an upgrade path.
now he's mad enough to swear a bit:
Apple needs to wake the hell up and realize that those games won't work anymore.
the standard "advice":
If the Mac Pro manager hasn't been fired yet, I would expect him to receive a pink slip soon.
Notice how he "knows" everything about Apple and what their "true" motivations are? :rolleyes:
Notice how he doesn't ever support any of those statements?

But then he takes the trouble to show off his love for Apple computers in his signature, which contains the usual "I love Apple and here is how big my penis/computer is" stuff at the same time as a direct "***** you Apple" kind of statement. So he is proud of his Apple computers, loves them etc. but everything that Apple does (apparently) also sucks? :confused:

12" Powerbook 1.5Ghz-Maxed
Harpertown Mac Pro on order (3-5 wk wait )
Nice supply chain mgmt, apple. :mad: :mad: :mad:

three frowny faces no less! :)

I actually have far more respect for some weeny who thinks Vista is the Cat's Pajama's than this kind of stuff.

Make up your mind what side you are on and stick to it, or change sides based on rational thinking and facts, not whatever emotion you are feeling about Apple this week would be my advice. :rolleyes:

Virgil-TB2
Jan 20, 2008, 01:57 AM
I am tired of it ... Nothing to say but, excellent post! :D :D

Virgil-TB2
Jan 20, 2008, 02:02 AM
... Apple should get better cards into machines faster so people can play windows games at full res. ...What are you nuts? :)

Like a better game-playing experience in Microsoft Windows should be a real goal for Apple? Jeez! :rolleyes:

abacae
Jan 20, 2008, 02:08 AM
I am a MacNewbie owner of the MacPro (7/2007 although I used Mac through most of the 1980s) and have to confess amazement at the very narrow scope of choice on the Mac side. My PCs have at least 9 separate choices equal to or higher than the NVideo 8800 GT which I now find is not an upgrade path for my recently purchased MacPro (which cost me more than my last 2 PCs (Duos) combined).

Even worse, now I find that when, in desperation, I want to buy the ATI 1900 upgrade, it is no longer in stock (at least where I buy). My alternative is a second hand board off Ebay. How Apple is able to keep positive vibe for their High End PCs with these really basic product problems is hard to understand. I think this incident will make a lot of us recent crossovers (escapees from the chaos of the PC) world consider moving back.

I hope the post about NVidia's planned fix are true and that it comes out soon so recent converts won't become as disappointed as I am with this investment.

Abacae

pesos
Jan 20, 2008, 02:40 AM
Sorry, but your argument holds no weight since Apple writes the drivers for the video cards in its machines, not ATI nor nVidia.

Sorry, but maybe you should actually read what I wrote and take a moment to process it before responding to what you incorrectly think I am arguing. My whole point was that yes, Apple writes these drivers. Why? To avoid the scenario I'm talking about that you run into in the Windoze world. Internalizing this process, however, while continuing to provide a benefit WRT stability, significantly holds them back from having the latest and greatest in hardware (and the accompanying software drivers to push that hardware's performance).

MacSA
Jan 20, 2008, 03:58 AM
What's with all the hostility lately toward Apple? Is it that Apple isn't doing a good enough job explaining these things or are people out for blood?


Interesting that he chose to respond. Maybe someone will email him about the HUGE price discrepancy between the US and UK price for the Apple TV. The UK did not get the price cut he announced in his keynote.

diamond.g
Jan 20, 2008, 06:54 AM
Sorry, but maybe you should actually read what I wrote and take a moment to process it before responding to what you incorrectly think I am arguing. My whole point was that yes, Apple writes these drivers. Why? To avoid the scenario I'm talking about that you run into in the Windoze world. Internalizing this process, however, while continuing to provide a benefit WRT stability, significantly holds them back from having the latest and greatest in hardware (and the accompanying software drivers to push that hardware's performance).

AFAIK most GPU families have similar internal specifications. So if a 8800GT works there is no real reason why a GTS GTX GS and Ultra wouldn't work. Especially if Apple is using OGL, the hardware is abstracted they aren't writing to the metal (seems to defeat the purpose of using OGL). What is sounds like to me is a firmware (EFI version vs BIOS) problem. Now the interesting thing is blame Nvidia for not making an EFI card. But what people may not realize is only AMD/ATI sells video cards directly. Nvidia only sells the chips. And since Apple is pretty closed in respect to video hardware, 3rd party folks (EVA, XFX, etc) probably don't see a huge source of profit for supporting Macs. It isn't like they could charge more when all it takes is a firmware flash to get the "PC" card working in the Mac. Really the only thing I could think of is disabling stream processors as a means to prevent "PC" cards from being used in the Mac. And all that would do is irritate people even more.

Lets just all sit back and see what happens. I wonder who is actually making the cards for Apple...

cal6n
Jan 20, 2008, 07:44 AM
Well, I think it's fantastic news. I don't mind a few weeks wait now that I know it's on the way. Whatever caused the original confusion, it's reassuring that Apple and Nvidia have proposed a solution.

ammon
Jan 20, 2008, 08:43 AM
So now that the 8800GT is coming out for my older Mac Pro, who wants to buy my x1900xt? :D

I have a feeling that a bunch of them will be popping up in the sales forums....

Azurael
Jan 20, 2008, 09:24 AM
What pisses me off is that it will undoubtedly cost 25-50% more than a standard, off the shelf 8800GT card. I'll probably end up buying one of those, swapping the EEPROM on it and flashing the Mac ROM on to it.

Wild-Bill
Jan 20, 2008, 09:37 AM
*blah....*

Wow. Thanks for the free 'analysis', Dr. Freud. :rolleyes:

Chimpy
Jan 20, 2008, 10:39 AM
I honestly can't believe that anyone would defend the response that Jobs gave. For an adult, never mind the CEO of a major corporation, to respond to a well-written missive from a customer with the phrase "calm down" is mind-boggling.

I think the man is a genius, but there's no way I can defend his lack of tact and etiquette.

dal20402
Jan 20, 2008, 11:32 AM
I honestly can't believe that anyone would defend the response that Jobs gave. For an adult, never mind the CEO of a major corporation, to respond to a well-written missive from a customer with the phrase "calm down" is mind-boggling.

I think the man is a genius, but there's no way I can defend his lack of tact and etiquette.

You need to calm down. :D

I've never understood the idea, pervasive in America, that the person on the product or service side of a business transaction has to act like an obsequious slave to the person paying money. Any business transaction is a two-way street. Both sides, not just one, need to be happy for the transaction to make sense.

Yes, some product or service providers may find their business improves when they act that way. No, it's not morally required. And, honestly, whether I'm a customer or a provider, I prefer to deal with someone who's blunt but honest and competent than someone whose "tact and etiquette" are terrific but who gets everything wrong or won't ever give a straight answer.

krunk
Jan 20, 2008, 12:54 PM
The real kicker is if they come out with a compatible upgrade kit in 3 weeks the folks who order the upgrade kit will probably get it before I get my new mac pro with the only BTO as the card. (damn those shipping times!)

digitalbiker
Jan 20, 2008, 01:20 PM
I'm not sure which category he is in but on this same thread a couple of posts down we have a classic example of the Apple-hater who (bewilderingly) also owns and loves Apple computers.

Here's his post title:

some unsupported hate statements here:

some justification for his own bitching here (and more unsupported hate statements):

now he's mad enough to swear a bit:

the standard "advice":

Notice how he "knows" everything about Apple and what their "true" motivations are? :rolleyes:
Notice how he doesn't ever support any of those statements?

But then he takes the trouble to show off his love for Apple computers in his signature, which contains the usual "I love Apple and here is how big my penis/computer is" stuff at the same time as a direct "***** you Apple" kind of statement. So he is proud of his Apple computers, loves them etc. but everything that Apple does (apparently) also sucks? :confused:


three frowny faces no less! :)


Come on lighten up a little bit. After all, this is a forum open for discussion and opinion.

Of course people love-hate Apple products. Do you love everything that Apple does regardless of it's design, usefulness, and cost?

Everyone has a right to their opinion and that is what makes the discussion interesting. It would be kind of dull to read 1500 posts of ooooh, aaaah, I love my Apple. My Apple is perfect. I would sell my soul for an Apple. SJ is my hero. I dream of Apple. oooh.

Besides you owe the complainers of the world a great deal. If everyone was content with every Apple product there would be no reason to innovate. Apple wouldn't be challenged. The business would get boring, stagnate, and stay the same. Why change if the product suits the needs of every consumer? I for one like to read the differing opinion. Many times it is the opinion of others that helps me to make an unbiased evaluation rather than getting caught up in the RDF which is SJ and Apple.

Pressure
Jan 20, 2008, 01:24 PM
I dont understqand apple charges a premium for old tech. An 8800gt. I have an 8800GTX ULTA OC, that is probably at least 2 times as fast. IS this some sort of joke. The new nvidia are coming out in a couple of weeks and apple users are still stuck with an 8800gt. WOW Apples laptops and imacs are amazing and they are top of the line, same with ipods and iphone (pricey but worth it), but apple always had an issue with their powermac line. I really suggest apple to take some drastic measures. If apple was priced around other ps users with same graphic capabilites then I would buy one but my desktop is as nice and more powerful price per preformance ratio. I mean people wonder why apple only has about 5-6 percent is because of their pricing. Apple has to cut some corners (but not all) so that they can gain more marketshare. If apple stops using xeons and uses core 2 duo that will sahve off about 1000dollars. Then apple will be marketing to the general public and then sales increase. It is really not that hard apple!

The Geforce 8800 Ultra is at best 20-30 times better than the Geforce 8800GT in most cases. At times they are quite equal in performance.

chicagostars
Jan 20, 2008, 02:08 PM
Just wondering if they will put a surcharge for the privilege of using the card on the older Mac Pro.

Don't you pay a surcharge for almost anything you buy for a Mac?

BTW Arsenal FTW!

Simmer down ya gooner! :D


MUFC 4LIFE

freezerburrn
Jan 20, 2008, 02:25 PM
You need to calm down. :D

I've never understood the idea, pervasive in America, that the person on the product or service side of a business transaction has to act like an obsequious slave to the person paying money. Any business transaction is a two-way street. Both sides, not just one, need to be happy for the transaction to make sense.

Yes, some product or service providers may find their business improves when they act that way. No, it's not morally required. And, honestly, whether I'm a customer or a provider, I prefer to deal with someone who's blunt but honest and competent than someone whose "tact and etiquette" are terrific but who gets everything wrong or won't ever give a straight answer.

Very well said.

I suggest you calm down Chimpy.

Bababasjd
Jan 20, 2008, 02:37 PM
The Geforce 8800 Ultra is at best 20-30 times better than the Geforce 8800GT in most cases. At times they are quite equal in performance.

3DMark06 8800 GT 512MB 9648

8800 Ultra 768MB
3DMark score 9648 11611

Mac users know nothing about video cards. What does this mean? This attributes anywhere from 40-110 frampers persecond faster. That is a lot. Please dont make up information just to support macpros ****** preformance. I see why many mac users are "devoted," many of you probably suffer from low selfesteem never had leadership when you were a kid and now for some odd reason are obsessed with Steve Jobs who is just making money off of you. It is kinda of sad, in a way, that many of you do not have lives. I mean these forums are great, but to be obessed with a computer lacking in technology, that is a complete different story. I am not a fan of computers because they are computers. They are not my friends and they are not what I think about everyday. But when I go into these forums I just see people obessed with computers it just feeds their lonliness. People this is a wake up call!

aussie_geek
Jan 20, 2008, 03:59 PM
8800 GT, GTS , GTX or ultra?? There is a massive difference in the specs between these cards. Expect that the Mac cards will be under clocked as well....:rolleyes:

NVIDIA GeForce series 8 (http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce8.html)


aussie_geek

andy721
Jan 20, 2008, 04:23 PM
What is all this about? I just pruchased the New Mac Pro 2.8 8 core with the nvidia 8800GT, so what your saying is it wont work properly or not at all? WTF? I spent 3500+ on this machine and your saying this now?
:mad:

cloudnine
Jan 20, 2008, 04:44 PM
I honestly can't believe that anyone would defend the response that Jobs gave. For an adult, never mind the CEO of a major corporation, to respond to a well-written missive from a customer with the phrase "calm down" is mind-boggling.

I think the man is a genius, but there's no way I can defend his lack of tact and etiquette.

I find it hard to believe that people on here would actually think that Steve Jobs would write that email. First off, the man is an amazing speaker... do you really believe that he would write a sentence like "Everyone knows the issue and it is being worked"? Come on now. That's like short-bus retarded. I'm pretty sure he would throw an "about" and "on" in there... if he would even issue such a short response about a "known issue".

Lord, someone throws up a so-called response from "The Jobs" and everyone just assumes that the poster is telling the truth. :rolleyes:

ErikAndre
Jan 20, 2008, 05:15 PM
I find it hard to believe that people on here would actually think that Steve Jobs would write that email. First off, the man is an amazing speaker... do you really believe that he would write a sentence like "Everyone knows the issue and it is being worked"? Come on now. That's like short-bus retarded. I'm pretty sure he would throw an "about" and "on" in there... if he would even issue such a short response about a "known issue".

Lord, someone throws up a so-called response from "The Jobs" and everyone just assumes that the poster is telling the truth. :rolleyes:
I'm not surprised at all that any CEO would write that. I work with many chairmen weekly and all of them only use one sentence emails. Direct, to the point, etc... He's not intending to be rude from his email, just clear enough to get across so he can move on to the next email.

I mean, what are you expecting? A nice warm fuzzy keynote in response to every email? Get real. I'm just glad he responded. And if you don't believe he sent the email, read the original thread containing the email for the headers... they are pretty legit.

cloudnine
Jan 20, 2008, 05:40 PM
I'm not surprised at all that any CEO would write that. I work with many chairmen weekly and all of them only use one sentence emails. Direct, to the point, etc... He's not intending to be rude from his email, just clear enough to get across so he can move on to the next email.

I mean, what are you expecting? A nice warm fuzzy keynote in response to every email? Get real. I'm just glad he responded. And if you don't believe he sent the email, read the original thread containing the email for the headers... they are pretty legit.

No, what I expect is that Steve would pass up an email like that in a heartbeat. Oh, another complaining customer... who cares?

And I'm sure we can all fake headers with the best of 'em.

By the way, the original poster's join date is January, 2008. Shocker.

Chimpy
Jan 20, 2008, 05:55 PM
I find it hard to believe that people on here would actually think that Steve Jobs would write that email. First off, the man is an amazing speaker... do you really believe that he would write a sentence like "Everyone knows the issue and it is being worked"? Come on now. That's like short-bus retarded. I'm pretty sure he would throw an "about" and "on" in there... if he would even issue such a short response about a "known issue".

Lord, someone throws up a so-called response from "The Jobs" and everyone just assumes that the poster is telling the truth. :rolleyes:

Oh, I agree with you on that - I'd be amazed if that reply really was from Jobs. I was more surprised by those who, thinking that it was real, felt that it was ok for someone to respond in that fashion.

As for the people telling me to calm down, feel free to take your own advice. :) I assure you I'm not worked up, merely surprised that anyone would defend such an abrupt, uncalled-for reply from anyone.

digitalbiker
Jan 20, 2008, 07:18 PM
I find it hard to believe that people on here would actually think that Steve Jobs would write that email. First off, the man is an amazing speaker... do you really believe that he would write a sentence like "Everyone knows the issue and it is being worked"? Come on now. That's like short-bus retarded. I'm pretty sure he would throw an "about" and "on" in there... if he would even issue such a short response about a "known issue".

Lord, someone throws up a so-called response from "The Jobs" and everyone just assumes that the poster is telling the truth. :rolleyes:

The email response may not have come from Jobs but I wouldn't say that it was out of the question. Jobs and Woz started Apple out of their garage while attending college. Jobs is a business major not an english major.

I am told by some people who have worked close to Jobs that his spelling is horrible as well as his grammar. He is not a writer.

On top of that he has the strangest accent for someone who comes form California.
Haven't you ever noticed how strange he pronounces words like;
jaguar - "jag wire"
automatic - "oat-o-matic"
rag - "reg"
I have no idea where this comes from considering that he grew up in California.

UberDuper
Jan 20, 2008, 07:32 PM
I'll go ahead and get my hopes up.. And hold off on buying a new 1900 to replace the out of warranty POS 1900 I have that's been replaced once already and failed yet again.

But I wont hold my breath for too long. ZFS, anyone? Time Machine using (old) airport extremes? Serious product problems which Apple remains silent on for months before addressing.. I don't have much faith in what Apple says and far less faith in what some Nvidia PR person says.

I need a new video card and I'd really like it to be an 8800gt. If the 8800gt doesn't happen and I'm forced to spend $400 on another 1900 it'll be the last apple product I ever buy.

UD.

barijazz
Jan 20, 2008, 07:38 PM
What's with all the hostility lately toward Apple? Is it that Apple isn't doing a good enough job explaining these things or are people out for blood?

This 8800 video card -> Apple and Nvidia still working on the software for it - it just came out a few weeks ago!

iPod Touch $20 upgrade -> the $20 probably went to pay for that Skyhook service part of the Google maps

Non-removable Mac Air battery -> replacement is as easy as removing a few screws. Laptop probably had to be designed that way to get it so slim.


I am trying to give Apple the benefit of the doubt here instead of thinking there is this mass conspiracy by Apple to screw all its loyal users. What do you guys think?

Oh and where is the angry letter from the user? I would like to see what ticked Steve off enough to shoot out that response/



I think that apple is charging $20 for the ipod touch upgrade because they are testing the effectiveness of distributing software through itunes. This may lead to apps running offline on iphones and ipod touches if it's successful.

barijazz
Jan 20, 2008, 07:40 PM
On apple's website it says there are 4 PCI express slots. Does that mean I can hook up 4 graphic cards to that bad boy? Or would that just be kinda crazy.

AppleNewton
Jan 20, 2008, 09:24 PM
does this mean a universal card? so say i purchase one for my 2.66ghz 2007 MacPro-Quad and i decide later down the road i want to get a new MacPro-Octo. could i swap between them?

thanks! =)


:apple:


? any chance these will be compatible with both the older macpros (Quad) and the newer MacPro Octos?


:apple:

AidenShaw
Jan 20, 2008, 09:34 PM
...never mind...

compuguy1088
Jan 20, 2008, 09:34 PM
I dont understqand apple charges a premium for old tech. An 8800gt. I have an 8800GTX ULTA OC, that is probably at least 2 times as fast. IS this some sort of joke. The new nvidia are coming out in a couple of weeks and apple users are still stuck with an 8800gt. WOW Apples laptops and imacs are amazing and they are top of the line, same with ipods and iphone (pricey but worth it), but apple always had an issue with their powermac line. I really suggest apple to take some drastic measures. If apple was priced around other ps users with same graphic capabilites then I would buy one but my desktop is as nice and more powerful price per preformance ratio. I mean people wonder why apple only has about 5-6 percent is because of their pricing. Apple has to cut some corners (but not all) so that they can gain more marketshare. If apple stops using xeons and uses core 2 duo that will sahve off about 1000dollars. Then apple will be marketing to the general public and then sales increase. It is really not that hard apple!

You do know the 8800GT is a refresh on the G80 core, aptly called the G92. The 8800GTS and GTX from what I read are EOL. The performance of the GT is near par in certain situations. At higher resolutions the 8800 GTS, GTX, and Ultra from there larger frame buffer (graphics ram) are superior.

iBug2
Jan 20, 2008, 11:05 PM
3DMark06 8800 GT 512MB 9648

8800 Ultra 768MB
3DMark score 9648 11611

Mac users know nothing about video cards. What does this mean? This attributes anywhere from 40-110 frampers persecond faster. That is a lot. Please dont make up information just to support macpros ****** preformance. I see why many mac users are "devoted," many of you probably suffer from low selfesteem never had leadership when you were a kid and now for some odd reason are obsessed with Steve Jobs who is just making money off of you. It is kinda of sad, in a way, that many of you do not have lives. I mean these forums are great, but to be obessed with a computer lacking in technology, that is a complete different story. I am not a fan of computers because they are computers. They are not my friends and they are not what I think about everyday. But when I go into these forums I just see people obessed with computers it just feeds their lonliness. People this is a wake up call!

Made me lol irl. First of all, many mac users do know about video cards even more than before now since we can plug any card in and use with bootcamp. Second of all, there are a large amount of mac gamers who follow the GFX industry even if we can't get all those cards. I know Ultra is better than GT but tbh GTX or GTS are on par with GT since it's based on newer chipset and I know PC users are buying GT over GTX or GTS right now because it gives almost same performance with less price.

About the rest of the post, just lol :)

JDC55
Jan 21, 2008, 01:37 AM
What is all this about? I just pruchased the New Mac Pro 2.8 8 core with the nvidia 8800GT, so what your saying is it wont work properly or not at all? WTF? I spent 3500+ on this machine and your saying this now?
:mad:
Your card will work just fine.

markw10
Jan 21, 2008, 05:15 AM
I have a question. I just purchased the new Mac Pro and chose the ATI option. Unfortunately the computer I needed to replace was not going to last long enough to wait 4-5 weeks. The problem is I will be using 3 monitors so need a 2nd card. I want to get a NVidea but will it work? Will it be a conflict with using two different cards and am I better of going with two ATI's or even two NVidea's?

loveturtle
Jan 21, 2008, 10:01 AM
I'm mind boggled as to why so many people can't get the name right. Is it some inside joke no one let me in on or what?

it is NVIDIA not NVIDEA, it's not hard.

digitalbiker
Jan 22, 2008, 12:34 AM
I'm mind boggled as to why so many people can't get the name right. Is it some inside joke no one let me in on or what?

it is NVIDIA not NVIDEA, it's not hard.

Probably because Nvidia is a daft name for a product!

It isn't a recognizable english word like Apple, or General Electric. It isn't an acronym like IBM or GMC.

In fact it's closest english match is video as in video card. But that would lead people to spell it Nvideo or Nvidea not Nvidia.

Besides who cares! No one gives a rat's a$$ about GPU card manufacturers except geeks anyway.

andy721
Jan 22, 2008, 01:51 AM
:rolleyes:;)Your card will work just fine.
THANKS

diamond.g
Jan 22, 2008, 05:49 AM
You do know the 8800GT is a refresh on the G80 core, aptly called the G92. The 8800GTS and GTX from what I read are EOL. The performance of the GT is near par in certain situations. At higher resolutions the 8800 GTS, GTX, and Ultra from there larger frame buffer (graphics ram) are superior.

Oh and don't forget the fillrate advantage.

andy721
Jan 24, 2008, 02:18 PM
Interesting why its taking so long all of a sudden, before I never got this response.

kwikdeth
Jan 24, 2008, 08:51 PM
has anyone seen this entry in wikipedia under the 8800GT? Perhaps this has something to do with why the card is having problems in the older Mac Pros? I dont know what revision of PCIe they used.

Shortly after the release, an incompatibility issue with older PCI Express 1.0a motherboards was unmasked. When using the PCI Express 2.0 compliant 8800GT in motherboards with PCI Express 1.0a slots, the card would not produce any display image, but the computer would often boot (with the fan spinning at a constant 100%). Some mainboard (Motherboard) chipsets had a workaround, which was to re-flash the graphics card's bios with an older GEN1 BIOS (which effectively made it into a PCI Express 1.0 card, not being able to utilize the PCIE 2.0 functions. but since the card itself could not even utilize the full capacity of the regular PCIE 1.0 slots, there was no noticeable performance reduction). A workaround to this is to flash the BIOS of the motherboard to the latest version. The flashing of the BIOS, however, voided the warranties of most cards thus making it a less-than-optimum way of getting the card to work properly. In relation to this compatibility issue, the high numbers of DOA (Dead On Arrival - cards that are broken out of the box)(As much as 13-15%) were believed to be inaccurate. When it was revealed that the G92 8800GT and 8800GTS 512Mb were going to be designed with PCI Express 2.0 connections, NVIDIA claimed that all cards would have full Backwards-Compatibility, but they completely failed to mentioned that this was only true for PCI Express 1.1 motherboards.

diamond.g
Jan 25, 2008, 06:06 AM
has anyone seen this entry in wikipedia under the 8800GT? Perhaps this has something to do with why the card is having problems in the older Mac Pros? I dont know what revision of PCIe they used.

Hmm, so if the Mac Pro (Gen 1) was only 1.0a compliant then that would be the problem. But I could of sworn it was at least 1.1 compliant.

atarigraffx
Jan 29, 2008, 04:25 PM
anyone have any updates on these cards?!?!

Drosha
Feb 3, 2008, 01:45 PM
Two possible scenarios?

1.) The nVIDIA PR guy had his head up is a$$ and we're never going to see 8800s for the old MPs.

2.) The nVIDIA PR guy did not have his head up his a$$, and the card's release is imminent to coincide with the release of 10.5.2.

Naimfan
Feb 3, 2008, 01:50 PM
anyone have any updates on these cards?!?!

I just saw that my university bookstore lists them for $314 and lists a shipping time of 5-7 weeks.

Mike Teezie
Feb 3, 2008, 02:48 PM
Great news. I just wish my 8800GT would ship already!

trixter
Feb 4, 2008, 04:17 AM
Great news. I just wish my 8800GT would ship already!

screenshot plz :)

shemp9999
Feb 11, 2008, 11:47 PM
Has any company actually released a press release stating their intent to deliver an 8800 for the original Mac Pro? If I can't have the best video and the best OS, give me pretty good video.

Dying cards want to know...

diamond.g
Feb 12, 2008, 05:36 AM
Has any company actually released a press release stating their intent to deliver an 8800 for the original Mac Pro? If I can't have the best video and the best OS, give me pretty good video.

Dying cards want to know...

AFAIK, until Vista supports EFI you won't see too many IHV's offer the 8800GT's for Mac. If IHV's do offer it you will probably have to get them through Apple. Just not enough people to warrant it.

sonpolker
Feb 14, 2008, 08:38 AM
yeah! this is such good news

chickenninja
Feb 14, 2008, 10:08 AM
thank god, if :apple: wants to be taken seriously on its environmental stance it will make more of its products upgradeable.

BugDave
Feb 20, 2008, 02:53 AM
It's almost March with no word from Apple or Nvidia. We've been had. Please express your anger to Apple (http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html)

I'll never forget this :mad:

TheSpaz
Feb 21, 2008, 03:32 PM
What the heck! I've been waiting forever for this card. I can't stand my 7300 and I'm not about to upgrade to the crappy ATI X1900 and I'm not going to upgrade my Mac Pro to an Octo-Core any time soon.

This pretty much sucks.

They gotta let us know!

lightwavejunkie
Feb 21, 2008, 04:46 PM
Agreed, that would be nice to read.


For those that missed it here is a copy of the leter that was sent

Dear Mr. Jobs,

I have no doubt that this email will never get to you, however I am
writing in the vain hope that your assistant will bring this matter to
your attention.

Recently the new range of Mac Pros was announced by Apple, and fine
machines they are too. However, there are a significant number of
existing Mac Pro owners who have been patiently waiting for a long
long time now for an upgrade path for the graphics card (currently the
top of the line is a Radeon 1900XT which is well over a year out of
date - eons in graphics card terms).

I'm sure you can imagine how pleased we were when it was announced
that the new Mac Pros will have the option of an Nvidia 8800GT card,
and this was offered as an upgrade in the Apple Store. However, now
it has come to our attention that these cards will not work in older
Mac Pros (and by "old" I mean a machine purchased last week). The
fundamental reason for buying a Mac Pro aside from its power is that
it is the ONLY Apple machine that is expandable and upgradeable. Yet,
your company has decided to remove that option. I can assure you that
this has already had an impact on your sales. A brief look around the
'net has indicated that orders are being switched to PC workstations
because you have destroyed the confidence of potential Mac Pro buyers
by taking away the main reason we buy them.

Let me be very clear. There is utter disgust, disappointment and
contempt being expressed by the Mac Pro community for Apple right now.
Go into the Support>Discussions area on the Apple website and you
will see that the community is up-in-arms about the way we have been
treated. You have a serious revolt on your hands. Let me remind you
that we are your best customers. We spend many thousands of dollars
on our Mac Pro workstations, and yet we feel like your company cares
more about someone who spends a couple of hundred bucks on an iPod.

Mac Pro owners are the hardcore of your customer base -your power
users. We are the ones who have supported your company through the
leaner times, when the OS wasn't quite what it should have been, or
sales weren't so good. We use your machines in a professional
capacity and we make large orders for expensive equipment and
software. Well, no more. We won't be treated like second class
customers, at the back of the queue behind kids buying iPhones.

Do the right thing. We deserve better.

Sincerely,

TheSpaz
Feb 21, 2008, 04:52 PM
For those that missed it here is a copy of the leter that was sent

Dear Mr. Jobs,

I have no doubt that this email will never get to you, however I am
writing in the vain hope that your assistant will bring this matter to
your attention.

Recently the new range of Mac Pros was announced by Apple, and fine
machines they are too. However, there are a significant number of
existing Mac Pro owners who have been patiently waiting for a long
long time now for an upgrade path for the graphics card (currently the
top of the line is a Radeon 1900XT which is well over a year out of
date - eons in graphics card terms).

I'm sure you can imagine how pleased we were when it was announced
that the new Mac Pros will have the option of an Nvidia 8800GT card,
and this was offered as an upgrade in the Apple Store. However, now
it has come to our attention that these cards will not work in older
Mac Pros (and by "old" I mean a machine purchased last week). The
fundamental reason for buying a Mac Pro aside from its power is that
it is the ONLY Apple machine that is expandable and upgradeable. Yet,
your company has decided to remove that option. I can assure you that
this has already had an impact on your sales. A brief look around the
'net has indicated that orders are being switched to PC workstations
because you have destroyed the confidence of potential Mac Pro buyers
by taking away the main reason we buy them.

Let me be very clear. There is utter disgust, disappointment and
contempt being expressed by the Mac Pro community for Apple right now.
Go into the Support>Discussions area on the Apple website and you
will see that the community is up-in-arms about the way we have been
treated. You have a serious revolt on your hands. Let me remind you
that we are your best customers. We spend many thousands of dollars
on our Mac Pro workstations, and yet we feel like your company cares
more about someone who spends a couple of hundred bucks on an iPod.

Mac Pro owners are the hardcore of your customer base -your power
users. We are the ones who have supported your company through the
leaner times, when the OS wasn't quite what it should have been, or
sales weren't so good. We use your machines in a professional
capacity and we make large orders for expensive equipment and
software. Well, no more. We won't be treated like second class
customers, at the back of the queue behind kids buying iPhones.

Do the right thing. We deserve better.

Sincerely,

Well said and professional sounding. I hope it causes an impact.

abacae
Feb 22, 2008, 05:09 AM
Well said and professional sounding. I hope it causes an impact.

I totally agree with all of you complaining about the BS and vaporware that Apple gave us in late January. All nice and sweet about bringing out an alternative. What a lot of nonsense from Apple. They don't give a fart about Mac Pro users or really much about their install base. It is time to go back to the PC World where competition creates choice. Windows XP is not really that bad (no comment on Vista) and it offers a massive amount of alternatives (including Graphics cards) that Apple is hopeless (no kidding, really hopeless, it will never, ever have a shot) at providing.

--A disillusioned former PC addict now totally disillusioned by the Mac world---

snugharbor
Feb 27, 2008, 05:02 PM
Today, a statement from NVIDIA's Director of PR confirmed that a fix was on the way:

the company is "in the middle of bringing out an upgrade kit based on the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT solution for all Intel-based Mac Pros." What's more, this upgrade kit "should be out in a few weeks."

OK, It's been close to seven weeks which is more than a few weeks. Where is the upgrade for older Mac Pro's?

T

epkphoto
Feb 27, 2008, 09:31 PM
Every few days I search around for an update on this NVIDIA 8800GT issue, but I find nothing. I am an original Mac Pro owner as well who is looking to upgrade to the new card. Does anyone have an update from Apple or other sources on this?

relimw
Mar 3, 2008, 01:16 PM
So.... Anything new, or am I stuck with my overheating ATI1900 card?

MadMan
Mar 3, 2008, 09:10 PM
Installed in my 2007 8-core MacPro and can now offer confirmation that it doesn't work.

Was hoping that they would upgrade it to work with ALL Mac Pro's before it shipped... no luck... box says PCIe 2.0 required.

Sorry all, wish I had better news to report :mad:

TheSpaz
Mar 3, 2008, 09:16 PM
Installed in my 2007 8-core MacPro and can now offer confirmation that it doesn't work.

Was hoping that they would upgrade it to work with ALL Mac Pro's before it shipped... no luck... box says PCIe 2.0 required.

Sorry all, wish I had better news to report :mad:

We already knew it didn't work.

MadMan
Mar 3, 2008, 10:05 PM
We already knew it didn't work.

Funny, I didn't see a post from you saying you had tried it with an actual shipping upgrade card?

TheSpaz
Mar 3, 2008, 10:44 PM
Funny, I didn't see a post from you saying you had tried it with an actual shipping upgrade card?

Oh, I'm sorry... I just trusted Apple... stupid me for believing their claims.

MadMan
Mar 4, 2008, 09:07 AM
Oh, I'm sorry... I just trusted Apple... stupid me for believing their claims.

Your one line snaps are so amusing... are you trying to boost your post count?

Considering that the ATI 2600 WILL run in a 2006/2007 Mac Pro even though Apple says it WON'T, I thought it was worth a try to install it and then report on it, especially since the last two posters in this thread were asking for any kind of update. :eek:

I mean maybe, just maybe, Apple had fixed the "Update" card before it shipped to work with all Mac Pro's?

Excuse me for trying to be helpful and taking up space on your interwebz :p

TheSpaz
Mar 4, 2008, 11:19 AM
Your one line snaps are so amusing... are you trying to boost your post count?

Considering that the ATI 2600 WILL run in a 2006/2007 Mac Pro even though Apple says it WON'T, I thought it was worth a try to install it and then report on it, especially since the last two posters in this thread were asking for any kind of update. :eek:

I mean maybe, just maybe, Apple had fixed the "Update" card before it shipped to work with all Mac Pro's?

Excuse me for trying to be helpful and taking up space on your interwebz :p

That's fine. I did not know about the ATI card... my mistake. I just figured Apple knew what they were talking about when they said that it wouldn't work. Thank you for trying it and posting your findings then. Again, I was not trying to boost my count, I was going on assumption and I "read" that it would not work, therefore I did not buy it.

cajuncheese
Mar 4, 2008, 09:53 PM
I have the original Intel quad-core Mac Pro with the 7300 GT and excitedly ordered the 8800 GT. I saw that it require PCIe 2.0, but I couldn't find anything in the product literature that came with my Mac Pro that said what version PCIe I had, so I went ahead and ordered it...

And it arrived..

And it doesn't work. The screen turns black, the computer boots up, but I don't have any video.

Now what the heck do I do ?????

I'm more than annoyed. The whole point behind the Mac Pro was upgradability, and so far in the time I've had it, there's been none. All I can do so far is add memory and swap HDDs, and you can do that with any of the other Macs.

Flies
Mar 5, 2008, 05:45 AM
I just spent 2 hours making a full technical walk-through on how to use the 8800GT with old quad-core MacPro´s.
But somehow this forum-tech ate my answer, when i pressed submit reply... and nothing came through.

Sigh. I am NOT going to recreate that 5-miles long reply.
Anyway - super-short Resume:

My old ( december 2006 ) quad-core mac, 3.0 ghz 4 gb ram

- runs Vista 64-bit.

runs a stock 8800 GT card bought from a local PC-shop without any problems at all.

If anyone wanna know how i did it ( very easy actually) plz let either me or the forum moderators know.
Mb they can dig up my former reply. If they do - plz just replace this post with the long one.

best regards
flies

abacae
Mar 5, 2008, 06:34 AM
I just spent 2 hours making a full technical walk-through on how to use the 8800GT with old quad-core MacPro´s.
But somehow this forum-tech ate my answer, when i pressed submit reply... and nothing came through.

Sigh. I am NOT going to recreate that 5-miles long reply.
Anyway - super-short Resume:

My old ( december 2006 ) quad-core mac, 3.0 ghz 4 gb ram

- runs Vista 64-bit.

runs a stock 8800 GT card bought from a local PC-shop without any problems at all.

If anyone wanna know how i did it ( very easy actually) plz let either me or the forum moderators know.
Mb they can dig up my former reply. If they do - plz just replace this post with the long one.

best regards
flies

I for one would like very much to know how you did this and the mft. and model of the card you used with success.

cajuncheese
Mar 5, 2008, 06:59 AM
If anyone wanna know how i did it ( very easy actually) plz let either me or the forum moderators know.
Mb they can dig up my former reply. If they do - plz just replace this post with the long one.

best regards
flies

I would love to know how you did it, too. Actually, if you could be so generous, I think you should disseminate this information far and wide. Apple has really not been good to its user base as far as the Mac Pro goes. It's a great machine, but where's the upgradeability? It has about as much upgradeability as a iMac. It doesn't make sense, when you look at the wonderfully designed chassis. And what are all those PCIe slots supposed to be for.. you can't really put much of anything new in them, just a few more old graphics cards maybe and who wants that.

Flies
Mar 5, 2008, 08:44 AM
I was like....
hell no, I am not going to spend 2 more hours trying to reprint a post, if the topic is somehow solved elsewhere, or for any other reason outdated. And now I learned, so I will save this reply in Word, before trying to submit.

OK - I had a lot of comments and thoughts too, but if we leave them out of here, I will try to describe what my needs were, and how I got through it.
Its nothing special really - but it works.

As said, my computer is a MacPro quad-core 3,0 ghz - originally delivered with 2 gb RAM and 3 internal hard drives - 500 gb each.

I opened it for the first time in december 2006, so I guess what works for me graphiccards-wise, will work for most other "old" MacPro users as well.
My main reason to run Windows, was, and is, simply to be able to game and play state-of-the-art games. Thats one pleasure we never had with all our former Macs.

I bought a Windows XP 32-bit cd+license and installed everything by-the-book, using boot camp and all that.

Later, I bought 2 more gb RAM, and everything ran smoth in MAC-OS mode.
but in XP-mode i noticed my computer was still recognized to have only 2 gb RAM.

I was told by Pee-Cee freaks, that this was a typical 32-bit prob for Windows. So i went looking for some 64-bit option.
However, wherever I looked, Apple specifically told that Boot Camp would only work with 32-bit Windows.

Then the new Leopard was marketed, which I bought and installed (including the new boot camp). But still the message from Apple was same :
"You cant install 64-bit Windows on your MacPro ".
I tried to google forum-topics and walk-arounds for some weeks without any luck, until i suddenly - end of January I think it was - came across a post from a very helpful person.

Apparently he had bought a new MacPro (late 8-core and all that), and he had taken a closer look at what was on the Leopard Install disc. Inside the disc he had found a folder called something like "64-bit drivers".

He then gave people a link, to where they could download this folder, clearly stating that he didnt know if it would help or work or anything, and he had done nothing else than simly just uploading that specific folder, but he had noticed that people had tried various ways to reach the 64-bit option, and mb this would help the old MacPro owners.

I d/l the folder - went out and bought myself a full Windows Vista Ultimate license, and used boot camp, as usual, to install Vista 64-bit on my 3.rd hard drive. Plz notice that I now had one hard drive for Mac-use only, one for XP 32-bit, and now defining a full hard drive for Vista 64-bit.
I am not sure if this is a part of the reason why i can run the 8800 gt card, but nvm.
I started the install process through my "old" Boot Camp, but when it came to create a drivers-CD, I simply took the full folder I got from this guy, and dragged it on to a blank CD, and burned it, the noob-way.

Then I started the Vista 64-bit install - without any problems at all.
As I rebooted in vista-mode, and the MacPro prompted me for the drivers-CD, I just punched in the newly created CD and crossed my fingers.

After a few more secs (honest : minutes) than usual, my MacPro suddenly came alive. It just started installing drivers like it was born to do so, and nothing went different from the install of 32-bit XP ( same messages and all that).

Cool. I rebooted and started to check my Vista-status.
Yes - it was defined as running 64-bit.
Yes - it recognized all my RAM.
Yes - Vista defined my old MacPro as a 5,9 ranked computer (Vista has this strange "ranking" thing).

So - I tested 3 of my newest games,to see if there was any increase in FpS,
or any other nticeable difference from 32-bit XP on a Mac.

Call of Duty 4 = 10-15 % increase approx + absolutely no change in performance if i cranked every setting to the top. CoD4 however doesnt really have that many settings.

Crysis - at least 15% improvement. Absolutely an improvement I could feel.

Flight-Sim X + Accelleration Pack : Not more than 10% improvement I would say. But i kinda expected that. Flight Sim X got its bottlenecks elsewhere too. speed of hard drive - graphic card etc.




But now I got hungry.
I thought : I own an Intel Machine now. Its neither a Mac nor a PC anymore. So now that I can run Vista in 64-bit, what should prevent me from just buying a stock 8800 GT card from some PC-dealer, and gain the high-praised world of the new Direct-X 10 ? I was especially curious about Crysis-performance.

So I did.

The 8800 GT card
I just told the dealer to give me whatever cheap 8800 GT card he had on his shelf. I got myself this card:

MSI Nvidia Geoforce NX 8800 GT T2D 512 E

I went home and opened my MacPro.
And here is a little hint : When uninstalling my (2-tons heavy-weight) Radeon 1900 Card, I suddenly noticed that in upperleft area - just beneath the 2.nd hard drive - there is a 2.nd power supply for graphic cards ( i guess ?) This I will test in coming days, to see if I can run two of the 8800 card, in SLI mode. Yes I know its said everywhere that the old MacPro´s cant do it - but so far I experienced opposite results -right ?
Also - the old MacPro ( or rather; Leopard) has power-allocation software build-in, I have been told.

When installing the 8800 GT card, you should use the ..hmm what to call it...lowest slot. The slot closest to your Ram-area. The card will at first feel like it doesnt fit, and as if its kinda loose. I just took two matches and placed them in between the card and the bottom of computer. Worked perfect. Card-placement was now firm and tight.

Without further messing around, i just closed the lid and rebooted my MacPro in Vista 64-bit mode. Notice : I did NOT install any drivers at all, I did not change any settings at all...nothing.

It took quite a while before anything happened. I was looking at a grey (not black) screen...then a lot of PC-stuff (weird DOS-language and stuff) rolled by, a fews silence, and then - da-da-da ... Vista just booted up as normal.
Screen resolution was reset though - to something standard-like, i guess.

I continued my perception of my compyter being an Intel-machine - went to *Nvidia (not the manufacturer (MSI)) .s homepage, and downloaded newest drivers for 64-bit Vista computers. Everything installed perfectly.

I rebooted - still in Vista-mode - and now i suddenly had a perfect 64-bit machine, with Direct-X 10 included.

Short performance story ( My reply is getting long i see) :

Crysis + CoD4 : Even 10 % performance increase, compared to Radeon setup. Crysis running in Direct X 10 mode - and what astonished me more than FpS was just the wooow ! feeling of how the graphics ran. Difficult to explain. Runs better.

Flight Sim X : Actually a serious FpS improvement - but hard to tell exat value, since i focused more on cranking the settings even higher than ever before, and still got same Fps.


Ok - I rebooted, and now i wanted to start in Mac-mode.

Apart from what i have seen elsewhere, my MacPro had no trouble at all starting. I got the chime all right - and i could hear everything loading inside. My screen was black though :-(

I have eyeTV set to start up along with the system-start, and suddenly I could hear from the speaker, the sounds from a TV-show.
So - there was a running mac all right - but without a picture.
meeoow.

I didnt investigate / fumble further into various Apple-options.
I just told myself that since Apple was shipping an 8800 Gt card, i called the danish Apple-dealer and got confirmation that there would be some sort of driver-cd included in the package - ordered a card from apple - returned the MSI card to the dealer ( yes - he accepted, contrary to other outlets ...cough) - and reinstalled the Radeon 1900 card.

2 days ago I got a call from the danish Apple-dealer, that the card has finally reached Denmark, but he checked and (no surprise really) there was NO driver or anything in the package. I asked if it was OK for me to test the card, but he said no. Once out of the package = no return.
thats a bit too expensive an experiment for my taste, so i called the local PC-dealer and now I got 3 options :

Solution A:
just keep the Radeon 1900 inside, for MAc-use only ( and thereby accepting that i wont allocate that much power to it), and install the 8800 GT card too.
Dealer told me, he has a DVI switch too, so I can just plug my Apple Cinema Display into this switch and by clicking a button i just control which of the two graphic cards should feed my screen, and i click the button everytime i switch from Mac to Vista.

Solution B:
Knowing that apparently my MacPro doesnt have any probs with whatever graphic card, I buy the most overclocked - high-tuned newest graphic card i can reach, for vista use, and as a bove, still go with the heavy-weight, power-consuming, old, stupid Radeon 1900 card for Mac-use.

solution C:
I hang around these forums, and go with the flow, whining and bitching while waiting until who knows when, for the promised "fix" from either Nvidia or Apple.


The answer - to me - is simle, and definately not blowing in the wind.
I go for Solution B - and will report here in these forums about result.
I plan to fetch my graphic card as soon as the PC-dealer gets it ( I am aiming for one of those cards with 1 GB ram onbard).

Best regards
Flies



P.S. remember to look for that "hidden" second power supply inside.
I am not sure if every MacPro has it.

P.P.S. I think you can Google your way to that uploaded 64-bit folder.
I lost the track unfortunately - but it was a torrent.

diamond.g
Mar 5, 2008, 09:54 AM
To save you the trouble, you wont be able to get GF8 SLi on the Mac Pro (any model). Nobody has successfully hacked the drivers, and the normal drivers requires nVidia chipset (or southbridge in SkullTrail's case). The GF7 series cards can be used with the hacked drivers though.

Flies
Mar 5, 2008, 10:22 AM
...but I thought that specifically Apple MacPro´s were accepted by Nvidia to use the SLI-enabling BIOS on their system ??....

Anyway,

this wont be that much of an issue for me, since I will be using the two slots and the two power supplies, for running my old ATI Radeon 1900 card ( with lowest power setting possible) for Mac-mode, AND the super-duper card I am able to reach/get working for Vista.

Best regards
Flies

fotofan
Mar 5, 2008, 10:46 AM
I recently bought a second Mac Pro for home (refurbished 8 core from Apple) because I loved my original Mac Pro at my office. I had read that the 8800 GT card was being added to the Mac Pro lineup, and just assumed it would be backwards compatible, as it is for the PC community. So I planned to replace the 1900 card on my office Mac Pro and on my new one as soon as it was available.
Apple and Nvidia to this day have not publicly made a statement about why they decided not to make the 8800 GT card backwards compatible. It's all third hand info that this might be rectified ( I do not count a quote of an executive on an internet site as a company statement).
In my eyes, the damage has already been done. Even if a backwards compatible 8800 GT card comes out sometime soon, I will think long and hard before I buy another Mac Pro, because I don't feel Apple intends to truly support upgradeability video cards in Mac Pro's, which then cripples it's longevity. That's one of the main reasons I originally bought it.
I think they'll sell a lot fewer Mac Pro's going forward to anyone who has been paying attention. And rightly so!

cajuncheese
Mar 5, 2008, 11:37 AM
I just called Apple Care. I pointed out that the white booklet that came with the Mac Pro doesn't say what level of PCIe it supports and that this information is not anywhere easy to find. They agreed to waive the restocking fee and also to pay shipping costs. So I'm in good shape and will send back the 8800GT as soon as i get the shipping label from Apple.

Having said that, if I had known that the Mac Pro was going to be utterly un-upgradeable, I might have opted for an iMac and just shortened my upgrade cycle by a year or so. Quite a bit cheaper, a whole lot fewer cables, and roughly similar performance assuming basic configurations. I know this is a simplistic argument, but I think you all get the point.

diamond.g
Mar 5, 2008, 11:47 AM
I just called Apple Care. I pointed out that the white booklet that came with the Mac Pro doesn't say what level of PCIe it supports and that this information is not anywhere easy to find. They agreed to waive the restocking fee and also to pay shipping costs. So I'm in good shape and will send back the 8800GT as soon as i get the shipping label from Apple.

Having said that, if I had known that the Mac Pro was going to be utterly un-upgradeable, I might have opted for an iMac and just shortened my upgrade cycle by a year or so. Quite a bit cheaper, a whole lot fewer cables, and roughly similar performance assuming basic configurations. I know this is a simplistic argument, but I think you all get the point.
Wow, I am suprised they accepted the PCIe version excuse, even though that doesn't matter.

Flies
Mar 6, 2008, 05:19 AM
Funny how objects can be viewed from so many angles - or not seen at all.
Or maybe people are just too busy to read my - extremely long - reply, above.
I find it somehow surprising that people first ask me directly in replies, if I could please tell them how to make it work - and after doing so, it seems to me like noone really listened.So - for all the forum-viewers living in the fast lane, ill try to make it short:


Name of this Topic: NVIDIA 8800GT Option for older MacPros Soon ?

Debate: Does Nvidia 8800GT work in older MacPro´s ?

My reply above : YES - it does. Right away.

How-to : There may be various ways. Here is Mine:

A: Install 64-bit Vista (I have no idea if it will work on 64-bit XP).
B: Make sure you install Mac-OS and Vista on each their hard drive.
C: Install your 8800GT card. And btw - any 8800GT card will do.
D: Enjoy your new card with Vista - and use your existing graphics card for Mac.

Items needed for this operation:

A: An extra hard drive. Price depends on your needs and ambitions.
B: A DVI-switch (price in DK; 18 US-dollars). Just tested -works fine.
C: The 64-bit drivers folder, stored inside Leopard for the new MacPro´s.
D: An 8800GT Graphics card of course.


SO - if your hope is to just stop talking and experience the Nvidia 8800GT card on your own MacPRo, the above description will get you there.

BUT - if your hope is more like wanting to argue over and over, why Apple didnt do this or that, I guess the above description could help you as well.

My own - lets call it - "angle" upon all this, is more like questions, rather than complaints:


A:
We have now proven, that hardware-wise, the old MacPro not only runs the Nvidia 8800GT card - the MacPRo even runs it with grace.
The Vista rating system gives an old MacPro an overall score of 5,9.
Thats one h... of a score, compared to other expensive PC´s with same graphics card.

So why doesnt Apple "release" these 64-bit drivers already made, for all MacPro owners to fetch ? ....it really beats me. Cant find any logic or commercial excuse for not doing so.
The only vague idea could be, that consumers might experience that PC-games will perfom more or less equal on ld and new MacPro´s, because of the programming in the games (cant really use all 8 cores to the full).


B:
We have proven that hardware-wise the old MacPro can run not just the 8800GT card from Apple, but ANY (or at least the randomly picked one i chose).
This means that the MacPro hardware-wise is actually REALLY flexible. Just as flexible as any other high end PC - and we have also proven that the 8800GT card really IS backward compatible, even on a Mac.

Why doesnt Apple use this fact in their favour ?

..and ..and..and...i got other questions as well, but ill leave it for here.


Good gaming to those wanting to install the 8800GT card now.
Trust me : you will get the smile back on your face :-)

very best regards
Flies

Zortrium
Mar 6, 2008, 05:31 AM
D: Enjoy your new card with Vista - and use your existing graphics card for Mac.

That's all well and good, but I think what most people want is to be able to use the 8800 in Mac OS X - you can always go out and buy a cheap PC with an 8800 if all you want to use it for is to play games in Windows.

Stig McNasty
Mar 6, 2008, 05:47 AM
Thanks for that 8800 installation scheme. It makes a lot of sense, and answers the 'Macs are no good for gamers' shouts. I'll seriously look at this option.

cajuncheese
Mar 6, 2008, 06:11 AM
Funny how objects can be viewed from so many angles - or not seen at all.
Or maybe people are just too busy to read my - extremely long - reply, above.
I find it somehow surprising that people first ask me directly in replies, if I could please tell them how to make it work - and after doing so, it seems to me like noone really listened.

I saw what you said, and appreciated it very much. I wanted use the 8800GT in OS X, so your solution didn't fit my goals.

Just as a note, I made one observation with my Apple 8800GT card while it was here, that is different from your experience. Just like many of you have said, my OS X booted up normally with the 8800GT in place but my monitor remained black. What is interesting is that with the 7300GT in slot 1, and connected to the monitor, and the 8800GT in slot 2 and not connected to any monitor, OS X also boots up to black.

So, it seemed to me that having the Apple 8800GT in the computer at all, even if it is not connected to any monitor, is enough to interfere with OS X. At least, that was my experience.

diamond.g
Mar 6, 2008, 06:14 AM
Thanks for that 8800 installation scheme. It makes a lot of sense, and answers the 'Macs are no good for gamers' shouts. I'll seriously look at this option.

IMHO, it doesn't answer the Macs are no good for gaming shout. Casual gamers aren't going to buy a Mac Pro to game. Hardcore gamers really aren't going to buy a Mac Pro to game. Plus you have to buy or steal Windows to play games (and take advantage of the non-Apple GPU's), and according to all here both are supposed to be bad.

Again all in my humble opinion. The iMac is an excellent casual gamer rig. Hardcore gamers won't buy Macs (for gaming), as they tend to build their rigs.

Flies
Mar 6, 2008, 07:00 AM
Now thats a reply I can truly answer :)

I am 120% hardcore Apple-fan.
Got my first SE30 many years ago, and havent changed brand since.

I am also 120% hardcore gamer.
Been playing ever since "Tetris" came out, and have a few international championships in first-person-shooter games too ( together with my clan of couse).

The introduction of Intel-based macs may have killed the cosy but small mac-gaming community, but it sure did introduce a most-wanted option for all the weird mac/gaming-freaks, like myself.

Now we could test our skills in the "big" gaming world.

These days I am the only Mac in a PC-clan, playing Call of Duty4 and BF2 at international level. We had a LAN-party last summer - and during that weekend my Mac went from "tolerated" to "admired".
"Why" is a long story, but right now 2-3 people in the clan are considering a switch in brand. And btw - the above 8800Gt story is a serious part of their considerations as well.

But lets keep track of topic...

Thanks StigMacNasty, I think you read my intentions 100%.

Thanks for the feeed-back Cajuncheese - I am puzzled, because right now I am sitting writing on a MacPro with the 2 graphics-cards installed ( I am in mac-mode right now).

Could it be some sort of power-consumption prob ?
I plugged my Radeon into that "extra" power-outlet inside, and I have no probs. And I do not know your 7300 card, but mb it doesnt have a separate power connection ?

Or have you tried to use the software for allocating power to your various PCi-slots ?

Flies

Flies
Mar 6, 2008, 07:05 AM
Oh...just came to think of a 3.rd option, CajunCheese:

Could it be - I know it sounds weird - that mb the 8800GT card from Apple doesnt work on the old MacPro´s...but the "normal" stock PC-ones do ?

:confused:


Flies


And Hey - one more consideration: Are you using one or two hard drives (one for Mac and one for Windows) ?

diamond.g
Mar 6, 2008, 07:21 AM
Now thats a reply I can truly answer :)

I am 120% hardcore Apple-fan.
Got my first SE30 many years ago, and havent changed brand since.

I am also 120% hardcore gamer.
Been playing ever since "Tetris" came out, and have a few international championships in first-person-shooter games too ( together with my clan of couse).

The introduction of Intel-based macs may have killed the cosy but small mac-gaming community, but it sure did introduce a most-wanted option for all the weird mac/gaming-freaks, like myself.

Now we could test our skills in the "big" gaming world.

These days I am the only Mac in a PC-clan, playing Call of Duty4 and BF2 at international level. We had a LAN-party last summer - and during that weekend my Mac went from "tolerated" to "admired".
"Why" is a long story, but right now 2-3 people in the clan are considering a switch in brand. And btw - the above 8800Gt story is a serious part of their considerations as well.

But lets keep track of topic...

Thanks StigMacNasty, I think you read my intentions 100%.

Thanks for the feeed-back Cajuncheese - I am puzzled, because right now I am sitting writing on a MacPro with the 2 graphics-cards installed ( I am in mac-mode right now).

Could it be some sort of power-consumption prob ?
I plugged my Radeon into that "extra" power-outlet inside, and I have no probs. And I do not know your 7300 card, but mb it doesnt have a separate power connection ?

Or have you tried to use the software for allocating power to your various PCi-slots ?

Flies
Cool, I def stand corrected. :)

Flies
Mar 6, 2008, 06:06 PM
It takes a gentleman to see one...



Flies

Flies
Mar 7, 2008, 06:13 AM
I am not sure if its accepted to post links in these forums,
but just in case its possible, I found the link to the 64-bit drivers.

You can start tuning your old MacPro, by following this link:

http://www.mininova.org/tor/1124428


Best regards

Flis

TFM
Mar 15, 2008, 08:55 PM
Now thats a reply I can truly answer :)

I am 120% hardcore Apple-fan.
Got my first SE30 many years ago, and havent changed brand since.

I am also 120% hardcore gamer.
Been playing ever since "Tetris" came out, and have a few international championships in first-person-shooter games too ( together with my clan of couse).

The introduction of Intel-based macs may have killed the cosy but small mac-gaming community, but it sure did introduce a most-wanted option for all the weird mac/gaming-freaks, like myself.

Now we could test our skills in the "big" gaming world.

These days I am the only Mac in a PC-clan, playing Call of Duty4 and BF2 at international level. We had a LAN-party last summer - and during that weekend my Mac went from "tolerated" to "admired".
"Why" is a long story, but right now 2-3 people in the clan are considering a switch in brand. And btw - the above 8800Gt story is a serious part of their considerations as well.

But lets keep track of topic...

Thanks StigMacNasty, I think you read my intentions 100%.

Thanks for the feeed-back Cajuncheese - I am puzzled, because right now I am sitting writing on a MacPro with the 2 graphics-cards installed ( I am in mac-mode right now).

Could it be some sort of power-consumption prob ?
I plugged my Radeon into that "extra" power-outlet inside, and I have no probs. And I do not know your 7300 card, but mb it doesnt have a separate power connection ?

Or have you tried to use the software for allocating power to your various PCi-slots ?

Flies

Hmm... being able to game on this level makes mac look even more appealing now

cajuncheese
Mar 15, 2008, 10:04 PM
Oh...just came to think of a 3.rd option, CajunCheese:

Could it be - I know it sounds weird - that mb the 8800GT card from Apple doesnt work on the old MacPro´s...but the "normal" stock PC-ones do ?

:confused:


Flies


And Hey - one more consideration: Are you using one or two hard drives (one for Mac and one for Windows) ?

Sure, maybe. I don't know what is going on, that is all I know. I do not understand why this needs to be so complicated. Windows users can just buy whatever nVIDIA card they want and it works. Doesn't nVIDIA make just one Windows driver that accommodates all their cards?

Can anyone else verify what you are saying, that a stock 8800GT in an old (2006) Mac Pro will work just fine in OS X?

I have a separate HDD for Windows.

Congrats on the international tourneys. I played BF2 on the Mac Pro before I switched to Company of Heroes. Played BF1942 for a long time before that.. that one was really my favorite. Never got up to that level of play though.

Mr. OohAhh
Mar 16, 2008, 10:10 PM
I am using a Mac Pro 3.0ghz Dual Core x2 Old Mac Pro, I am running 10.5.2 and have the X1900 installed and am using a dedicated internal hard drive to install Windows Vista Ultimate 64 onto. I am using a Gefen DVI Switcher to manage the dual card single Apple Cinema 30" display for this experiment. I used Flies' link to the torrent to download the drivers, I simply drag and dropped the folder onto a blank cd, and burned the cd in Mac OS 10.5.2. I run BootCamp, select a dedicated drive to install Vista on, I place the Vista 64 cd in the top drive, and I install Vista 64 without problem. Here is where my situation completely deviates from Flies' experience.

1. Upon installing Vista 64 Ultimate to a completely dedicated hard drive, once installation is complete, there isn't any prompting for any drivers to make Vista 64 work, it already is, but of course is without recognizing the Mac Pro's hardware specific features (i.e. Bluetooth, RealTek audio support, iSight support, Airport Extreme, etc.)

2. So, I have this nifty cd to use for drivers; I named the cd "Driverscd". The real question now is, what specifically do I execute from the cd to install the drivers? I explore the cd and go to D:\Driverscd\Apple BootCamp MacPro Drivers\Apple\Bootcamp64.msi. Is this the program, which is a Windows setup program mind you, I should be using to install the drivers?? Well, I run the Bootcamp64.msi, it installs an array of drivers and I am asked to reboot. I do, so and Vista is up and running using the ATI X1900. I now shut the Mac Pro down to install the 8800GT.

3. I install a PC eVGA brand Nvidia 8800GT into Slot 1 on my Mac Pro, I move the X1900 to slot 2. **PROBLEM* I realize that the power cord supplied with the eVGA 8800GT doesn't match the power supply cord used by Apple to power the X1900, but the power supply plugin is located next to the plug the X1900 was using as mentioned by Flies. The cord that supplies the X1900 and any other graphics card used in a Mac Pro is a proprietary design; 6-pin to small 6-pin. Flies, you mention nothing of this and expect someone to be able to buy a PC Nvidia 8800GT card and install it? What is your rationale or logic? This cable CANNOT be found in just any electronics store, its a proprietary design. I found a cable at www.welovemacs.com. Welovemacs.com is located in Silicon Valley in CA and I'm glad I live in Silicon Valley too. I managed to just drive over there and pick one up the next day.

4. Ok, so I have the 8800GT installed in slot 1 in my Mac Pro, I have it connected via the proprietary cable to the Mac Pro power supply slot. I have the 8800GT set to my DVI switch #1 and the X1900 to my DVI switch #2. I have Vista set to be the primary booted OS using Bootcamp, so I don't need to hold down the Option key. Ok, so I set it to the DVI switch #1, I start up Vista, I hear the Vista startup noises, but I am getting a black screen! Huh? I thought I was supposed to see it start up DOS stuff, but I see nothing. I switch over to DVI switch #2 and the X1900 is still the active display and the 8800GT is not working. I look in the device manager in Vista and see "Error Code 43" for the 8800GT, but the X1900 is working fine.
**Note: When Flies mentions installing the 8800GT, the placement of the X1900 is omitted (the X1900 is factory installed in the lowest slot "Slot 1" Flies recommends to put the 8800GT in, which is the slot closest to the RAM. What did you do with the X1900 in that step Flies?) and the use of a DVI switch and/or how it is being used to manage 2 cards if 2 cards are even installed during Flies steps isn't mentioned either. **

5. I wanted to see if the Mac Pro could really run the 8800GT, so I removed the X1900 and kept the 8800GT in Slot 1. Since the BootCamp settings are set to boot Windows upon power up, I kept the DVI switch to #1 (the connection to the 8800GT) and started Vista. Vista started up using the 8800GT, the resoultion wasn't set up correct, so I downloaded the most recent drivers from the manufacturer (they are 3 month more recent than the Nvidia website drivers), they install fine, I restart again and viola, Vista is running at the correct resolution for a 30" Apple Cinema Display.

6. I power off the system, reinstall the X1900 in Slot 2, kept the DVI switch to #1 (#1 for the 8800GT) and boot into windows. I hear a chime, the monitor is responding to the card (a change in the screen to a blackish color), then I get across the top left hand corner of a blackish screen "A52027 X1900XT BIOS." The screen clears, stays the same color, and Vista doesn't boot anymore. :(

7. Based on my experience and lack of information to the contrary, the X1900 cannot be installed in the Mac Pro at the same time as the PC 8800GT to boot into Vista 64 Ultimate using Bootcamp.

8. I tested these same steps on Windows XP SP2 32 bit. On Windows XP SP2 32 bit, both cards can be installed at the same time, the 8800GT can be used if the X1900 is "Disabled" in the Device Manager in Windows. Disabling one card, such as the X1900, and/or uninstalling said card in the Device Manager makes no difference in Vista 64 for functionality. The lack of recognition of my additional 2 gigs of RAM was the reason I chose not to use Windows XP SP2 32 bit, as was the lack of improved performance in playing a game such as WoW in XP (using the 8800GT) versus OS X (using the X1900).

Any insight would be much appreciated as Flies' experience wasn't clearly outlined to provide reliable steps, Flies' use and/or placement of all hardware was extremely vague and I cannot run both cards at the same time, which kind of defeats the purpose of using Bootcamp with a PC 8800GT card. Thanks.

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2008, 08:48 AM
My back ordered NVidia GeForce 8800 GT arrived yesterday and is now in my Mac Pro 8 Core with 30" Cinema Display ... and it screams! I can set every option in any application to max and it just works! Games such as Second Life, X-Plane* and Call of Duty 2 are amazing at 2560 x 1600. I left the Radeon 2600 XT card where it was and put the NVidia in another slot and set to main screen in System Prefs. The stock card now runs my 23" display and the two cards work flawlessly together - I was concerned about FCPro spanning two dissimilar cards but to problems so far.

(*X-Plane still reports some settings are too high but everything works at max. I have to wonder what card they suggest not to get that message lol)

yergi
Mar 23, 2008, 09:24 AM
My back ordered NVidia GeForce 8800 GT arrived yesterday and is now in my Mac Pro 8 Core with 30" Cinema Display ... and it screams! I can set every option in any application to max and it just works! Games such as Second Life, X-Plane* and Call of Duty 2 are amazing at 2560 x 1600. I left the Radeon 2600 XT card where it was and put the NVidia in another slot and set to main screen in System Prefs. The stock card now runs my 23" display and the two cards work flawlessly together - I was concerned about FCPro spanning two dissimilar cards but to problems so far.

(*X-Plane still reports some settings are too high but everything works at max. I have to wonder what card they suggest not to get that message lol)

ok, but is this on an old mac pro or a 2008 mac pro?
Either way, my mac 8800gt arrives tuesday. I will be trying to run it with a 7300 on a 6 month old mac pro...

BugDave
Mar 23, 2008, 09:29 AM
ok, but is this on an old mac pro or a 2008 mac pro?
Either way, my mac 8800gt arrives tuesday. I will be trying to run it with a 7300 on a 6 month old mac pro...

Let us know how it turns out. My mac pro is from the same time frame but i have a 1900xt


P.S. What ever happened to the nvidia announcement concerning them releasing a model of the 8800gt for older macs? Nvidia = liars.

BobBlobLaw
Mar 23, 2008, 10:58 PM
After waiting 7 weeks for my 8800GT to arrive, I found out it is not compatible with my 2007 mac pro... And can not return it because one of my friends who is an employee of apple got me a discount on the card, and all purchases through an apple employee are final.. LAME

Do you think they will release a downloadable firmware which will allow me to use this card? Or will you have to buy the new version of the card whenever that comes out?...

pknz
Mar 23, 2008, 11:02 PM
After waiting 7 weeks for my 8800GT to arrive, I found out it is not compatible with my 2007 mac pro... And can not return it because one of my friends who is an employee of apple got me a discount on the card, and all purchases through an apple employee are final.. LAME

Do you think they will release a downloadable firmware which will allow me to use this card? Or will you have to buy the new version of the card whenever that comes out?...

Why'd it take you until you received it to realise it wouldn't work? That piece of info has been floating around the internet pretty much since its release.

Buyer beware.

BobBlobLaw
Mar 24, 2008, 08:39 PM
I purchased it the week it was released, and no the information was not on there. Also I did not check to make sure its compatible, because I didn't think my mac pro which I purchased in late 2007 would already be outdated...

TheSpaz
Mar 24, 2008, 10:06 PM
I purchased it the week it was released, and no the information was not on there. Also I did not check to make sure its compatible, because I didn't think my mac pro which I purchased in late 2007 would already be outdated...

Sell it?

I wish nVidia would do something about this situation. It sucks using this 7300. I'm so sick of it!

yergi
Mar 25, 2008, 08:06 AM
Let us know how it turns out. My mac pro is from the same time frame but i have a 1900xt


P.S. What ever happened to the nvidia announcement concerning them releasing a model of the 8800gt for older macs? Nvidia = liars.

reporting in.
I received my mac 8800 today from apple japan.
Slapped it into slot 2 at 8x and moved my 7300 to slot 3 which I have running at 1x.
I can't use slot 1 because I have 2 raid cards (the apple raid card sucks compared to this cheapo I have in the box with it by the way- in every single benchmark, but I digress...), so I had to move one of my raid cards down to slot 1 to resolve some cable issues. Running 10 hard drives in a mac pro case will show a lot of little pains like this. ;)

I have 2 samsung 226bw monitors which sport analog and digital inputs.
with both digitals hooked up to the 8800 and the analog to the 7300, I can boot into mac osx. However, the 8800 shows up in the system specs as a general vga adapter, and I don't know how, or even if, I can get the darn thing to ever be recognized by OS X properly. Times like this, I wish I had just built a hackintosh. The 8800 screens are blank in OS X BTW.

Booting into vista 64, the apple 8800 GT works fine on my 6 month old mac pro. Do I smell a class action lawsuit anyone?

9001 PCMarks, and everything looks fine. Sucks that I have to hack everything on an apple to get iwhat I want. (because of the apple raid card, I have to always use a windows boot cd in the cdrom drive- let it time out on "press any key to boot from cd" to even get into windows because the stupid thing doesn't recognize the windows partition from the startup... but again, I digress.)

conclusion: mac pros suck because of the endless frustrations. But, the mac 8800GT works fine boting into windows.

oh and a note- when you install the nvidia 8800 drivers, you will loose the 7300 screens during the driver install and nothing will display until a reboot. Also, I had to disconnect the monitors from the 7300 the first time into windows as well.

Hope that helps some of me fellow frustrated netizens.

Here's drinking to kicking steve jobs square in the nuts;
yergi

SMM
Mar 25, 2008, 10:13 AM
reporting in.
I received my mac 8800 today from apple japan.
Slapped it into slot 2 at 8x and moved my 7300 to slot 3 which I have running at 1x.
I can't use slot 1 because I have 2 raid cards (the apple raid card sucks compared to this cheapo I have in the box with it by the way- in every single benchmark, but I digress...), so I had to move one of my raid cards down to slot 1 to resolve some cable issues. Running 10 hard drives in a mac pro case will show a lot of little pains like this. ;)

I have 2 samsung 226bw monitors which sport analog and digital inputs.
with both digitals hooked up to the 8800 and the analog to the 7300, I can boot into mac osx. However, the 8800 shows up in the system specs as a general vga adapter, and I don't know how, or even if, I can get the darn thing to ever be recognized by OS X properly. Times like this, I wish I had just built a hackintosh. The 8800 screens are blank in OS X BTW.

Booting into vista 64, the apple 8800 GT works fine on my 6 month old mac pro. Do I smell a class action lawsuit anyone?

9001 PCMarks, and everything looks fine. Sucks that I have to hack everything on an apple to get iwhat I want. (because of the apple raid card, I have to always use a windows boot cd in the cdrom drive- let it time out on "press any key to boot from cd" to even get into windows because the stupid thing doesn't recognize the windows partition from the startup... but again, I digress.)

conclusion: mac pros suck because of the endless frustrations. But, the mac 8800GT works fine boting into windows.

oh and a note- when you install the nvidia 8800 drivers, you will loose the 7300 screens during the driver install and nothing will display until a reboot. Also, I had to disconnect the monitors from the 7300 the first time into windows as well.

Hope that helps some of me fellow frustrated netizens.

Here's drinking to kicking steve jobs square in the nuts;
yergi

Maybe you should take that juvenille attitude for a walk. "Class action lawsuit". Give it a rest. If you think the macs suck, go buy a Dell.

texas2001
Mar 25, 2008, 10:18 AM
Maybe you should take that juvenille attitude for a walk. "Class action lawsuit". Give it a rest. If you think the macs suck, go buy a Dell.

At least you could put ANY PCIe video card in the Dell and it would work. Can't do that with the Mac Pro eventhough it should but Apple wont let us.

yergi
Mar 25, 2008, 11:25 AM
Maybe you should take that juvenille attitude for a walk. "Class action lawsuit". Give it a rest. If you think the macs suck, go buy a Dell.

If I thought all macs sucked, I wouldn't own more than one. I like the Mach kernel and the way it handles IPC.

This was said in jest. You think I would actually do that over a graphics card?
I'm annoyed but not a dick. You need to take a quaalude bro, and chill out.

EDIT: Also, when in OS X, the mac 8800GT fan runs at full speed. Louder than the case fans combined. Think I will be doing some soldering tomorrow to put a pot on that fan input to tune it down when in OS X.

technocoy
Mar 25, 2008, 05:21 PM
Thing that really pisses me off is not only did they not deliver on an upgrade solution, but they are still raping us on the x1900 for 50 bucks more than the damn 8800GT costs!!!! what a fracking joke.

I also think the whole steve jobs email/nVidia rep statement wa a way of calming us down enough to let the flames subside and take attention away from it. Notice it's not nearly as hot button as it was when it absolutely should be.

Is there no other way to somehow put some heat on Apple about this?

After years and years of Apple products, this is the first time I think I have had a truly sour taste in my mouth over it. Not even the iPhone rebate pissed me off this much.

My first scorching-ass x1900 burned out two weeks out of warranty and now they want me to pay $400.00 for a fricken two and a half year old card? when if you have the *new* macpro you can get the 8800GT for 350?

wow.

rxse7en
Apr 4, 2008, 11:33 AM
This 8800GT debacle is almost criminal. Can't believe Apple dropped the ball on this one. I've resorted to ordering a used X1900XT off of eBay and will flash it with the Mac rom. I only paid $86 for it and just can't justify paying $400 for Apple's X1900XT. I would have gladly dropped the $350 for an 8800GT if it worked with my obsolete 2007 MP. Incredible.

TheSpaz
Apr 4, 2008, 11:45 AM
This 8800GT debacle is almost criminal. Can't believe Apple dropped the ball on this one. I've resorted to ordering a used X1900XT off of eBay and will flash it with the Mac rom. I only paid $86 for it and just can't justify paying $400 for Apple's X1900XT. I would have gladly dropped the $350 for an 8800GT if it worked with my obsolete 2007 MP. Incredible.

This pisses me off too. Where is the 8800GT for OS X? Don't tell me they're gonna wait until June to announce it.

Chimpy
Apr 7, 2008, 08:54 AM
I love my Mac Pro. However, after this video card debacle (and various other reasons) I won't buy high-end Apple hardware again. The upgrade options for these machines are either non-existent (video card) or exorbitantly expensive (apple raid card).

I built a Hackintosh that scores much higher on Geekbench and cost a third of my Mac Pro. Yes, I own the copy of Leopard for it (bought it special for the project), so while it might technically be in violation of the EULA I feel no shame in using it on non-Apple hardware.

So in the end I get my cake and get to eat it too; Leopard OS, 8800GTS video, an overclocked speed of 3.4Ghz on the 4 cores, and a price far below the Apple hardware. Win-win.

cajuncheese
Apr 7, 2008, 08:57 AM
If a Hackintosh can do it, then there's no reason in the WORLD why Apple can't get their stuff to work just as well (in fact, Apple should be able to do a better job than a group of hackers who do this stuff in their free time).

I built a Hackintosh that scores much higher on Geekbench and cost a third of my Mac Pro.

Mackan
Apr 10, 2008, 03:15 AM
Apple is too busy working out revenue plans for the iPhone. ;)

vvebsta
Apr 10, 2008, 05:10 AM
Apple is too busy working out revenue plans for the iPhone. ;)

This seems to only reinforce what cajuncheese said...

Hack Pro > Mac Pro
Jailbreak > iPhone

0:2 for apple at the moment in my opinion

in any case i'm glad to see people are still voicing their frustration. there's no reason a video card should work on windows but not on osx using APPLE'S HARDWARE!!! ITS ABSURD!

beardog
Apr 15, 2008, 01:51 PM
Just in case you haven't seen:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=MTM5NDY&nplm=MB560Z/A

Sucks to have to be in this situation in the first place but it's great of Apple to take the reins and finish what nVIDIA started.