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View Full Version : UK iPhone sales fall short


MacBytes
Jan 20, 2008, 10:39 AM
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Category: News and Press Releases
Link: UK iPhone sales fall short (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20080120113911)
Description:: Of course, it's all just a matter of spin [and valuation]...

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

dogtanian
Jan 20, 2008, 11:45 AM
I'll be honest, I love my iPhone and when people realise u have one, they are desperate to see it.... But at then end of the day most people don't want 2 go on a contract or perhaps don't want to be with O2.

Another funny thing is the amount of stupid rumours surrounding the device:

"wow an iPhone! Shame they don't have a camera though, hey wait, what's that on the back!?" or...

"iPhone's are cool but it hasn't even got Bluetooth..."

Beardy man
Jan 20, 2008, 05:22 PM
How's the Edge coverage in Bournemouth?

I'd love an iPhone, I don't really want a contract but that's not the deal breaker.

Living in the South West, I have no chance of Edge through O2. Their coverage is appalling. I was in Bristol (largish city by UK standards) and my nephew's iPhone couldn't raise Edge even in the city centre. We did luck into a bit of free WiFi but it was only in one spot. Overall the experience was very frustrating. I know it's down to O2 rather than Apples fault but they'll get the blame.

IF Orange had got the deal, I'd have an iPhone by now.

O2 can't tell me when I'm likely to get decent data coverage (if at all).

I said in a previous post that I know of two people that have abandoned iPhone for their old phones. The reply I got was "two people, woah Apple will be really scared!". Maybe not, but I only know 5 people with iPhones, that's down to 3 now. 40% down on 6 weeks ago. Shouldn't the graph be going the other way?

jnc
Jan 20, 2008, 07:50 PM
My brother works at o2 - only things stopping me from having an iPhone now are the rather ridiculous tariffs and the fact I entered an 18 month Nokia N95 contract last April. Also I really, like my number - I've had it 10 years! :D I wish the iPhone was available on T-Mobile.

I live in Birmingham and Sheffield. 2nd and 7th biggest cities in the UK. I should have no trouble with coverage!

iGav
Jan 21, 2008, 05:06 AM
I know it's down to O2 rather than Apples fault but they'll get the blame.

I'd argue it's solely Apple's fault... they were quite aware they were saddling up with the worst network in the country.

Of course that pales in comparison to launching a product that isn't truly supported outside of... America.

sunfast
Jan 21, 2008, 06:51 AM
I have to say that I really hope that this is true and not just spin.

Apple & O2 need a kick in the arse to sort out the extortionate contract pricing. I'd say current prices are fine if the phone was free or if you have to pay for the handset you shouldn't have to be paying for it again in the contract fees.

I'm just grumpy because I want one! :o

jnc
Jan 21, 2008, 08:58 AM
I have to say that I really hope that this is true and not just spin.

Apple & O2 need a kick in the arse to sort out the extortionate contract pricing. I'd say current prices are fine if the phone was free or if you have to pay for the handset you shouldn't have to be paying for it again in the contract fees.

I'm just grumpy because I want one! :o

No, you're spot on. When I was telling people about the tariffs STARTING at 35, they winced. When I mentioned the 269 unit price they just started laughing.

dukishdary
Jan 21, 2008, 09:48 AM
No, you're spot on. When I was telling people about the tariffs STARTING at 35, they winced. When I mentioned the 269 unit price they just started laughing.

we'll get the last laugh when those same people end up adopting.

i've found that most people who insult the iphone typically have no hands on experience with it or just can't afford it (which is the case above).

sunfast
Jan 21, 2008, 10:02 AM
we'll get the last laugh when those same people end up adopting.

i've found that most people who insult the iphone typically have no hands on experience with it or just can't afford it (which is the case above).

If you are referring to me, it is not about affording an iPhone - it's that I don't feel it is value for money currently.

People are naturally defensive about products they have bought but I don't think people are "insulting" the iPhone by saying O2's pricing plan for it isn't very competetive.

I will be getting an iPhone after it gets 3G but I don't see why anybody would get the "last laugh" out of me, or anybody else who has dared question the pricing strategy, buying one.

Manic Mouse
Jan 21, 2008, 10:05 AM
we'll get the last laugh when those same people end up adopting.

i've found that most people who insult the iphone typically have no hands on experience with it or just can't afford it (which is the case above).

There's a huge difference between being able to afford something and thinking somethings good value for money. I can easily afford the iPhone, but it's still a rip-off.

"People who complain about iPhone prices can't afford one"

This argument makes me sick. It's arrogant, offensive and also plain wrong.

The iPhone (in the UK) is a rip-off, regardless whether you can afford it or not.

"People who think wiping one's arse with money is a waste simply can't afford it!"- Just as valid as argument!

jnc
Jan 21, 2008, 10:09 AM
we'll get the last laugh when those same people end up adopting.

i've found that most people who insult the iphone typically have no hands on experience with it or just can't afford it (which is the case above).

Ha... except, no. You're talking out of your arse. You can't have any idea of the European phone market:

Prada Phone - FREE

600 mins included each month
500 Text included each month
35 per month, 18 months

LG Viewty - FREE

18 month contract length
400 minutes per month
500 texts per month
but! 15 for first 8 months instead of 30

and for comparison, iPhone... 269

18 months
600 mins
500 texts
45

-- WEAK.

These are FREE touchscreen phones with 35 or less tariffs. It's incredibly easy to completely disregard the iPhone.

It's not that people can't afford iPhones, they just do not represent any sort of value in this market... yet. Let's see what iPhone 2 will bring.

Unless you don't mind paying "269 for the "look at me" factor your money is better spent elsewhere.

sunfast
Jan 21, 2008, 11:07 AM
"People who think wiping one's arse with money is a waste simply can't afford it!"

That's sigworthy

takao
Jan 21, 2008, 11:17 AM
That's sigworthy

i totally second that.

luckily i wasn't drinking anything or else my screen would have suffered...

elppa
Jan 21, 2008, 11:35 AM
I would really like and iPhone. I'll probably be even more tempted after Feb. But the contract is just silly. 35 is a big outlay.

jayducharme
Jan 21, 2008, 01:44 PM
There's a huge difference between being able to afford something and thinking somethings good value for money. I can easily afford the iPhone, but it's still a rip-off.

I'm curious. I didn't want an iPhone because I just don't use a phone all that much. But I do use the Net a lot, so I got a Touch. Now that I'm hooked on the Touch, I'm wishing I did get an iPhone just to have access to the Net without having to be near WiFi. It's just not worth $60 a month to me, though....

I would hope that Apple would realize if their pricing is too high. But just curious: all you MacRumors members in the U.K., do you think the iPhone would have been a bigger hit there if the price of the phone were lower, or if the price of the tariffs were lower? The main complaint seems to be about getting hit twice (by Apple and O2). Which cost drop would be more important to you? (For me here in the U.S., it's definitely the AT&T cost that's stopping me.)

Beardy man
Jan 22, 2008, 02:19 AM
Which cost drop would be more important to you? (For me here in the U.S., it's definitely the AT&T cost that's stopping me.)

I have to say, I appear to have different gripes than most people who post on this subject. Although I may not like the cost of the phone or the tariffs, I would be prepared to pay them IF I could get (as you say) mobile internet without being near WiFi.

My problem is solely with the O2 EDGE coverage i.e. it doesn't work anywhere I would frequently use an iPhone so for me it is a "crippled" device and I'm not prepared to pay very much for something that I'd find frustrating to use knowing what it would be capable of if only Apple had chosen a different partner than O2.

I feel very irritated by all this as my wife and I decided to get iPhones when they were announced. When we discovered that O2 EDGE coverage was so dismal (and unlikely to move out of the major cities in the next few years) we felt let down and frustrated. I daren't look to see what O2 3G coverage is like in our area as I suspect we don't get a fair shake of that either.

Sorry to be so down on all this but I'm still trying to come to terms with it ;-)

coopermac
Jan 22, 2008, 06:08 AM
The main reason for me and most of those I know who were initially keen to get the iPhone and haven't is having to be tied to one operator (the fact that it is O2 makes it even worse).

The fact that it is not 3G is also a big downside and when both of these defects are added to the unreasonable cost of the whole package then there is only one way most sensible people will go.

Having said all that I really am glad that there are early adopters who are willing to pay top bucks for a testbed product so that when the proper one is released all the shortcomings will be rectified.:D

dukeblue91
Jan 22, 2008, 08:16 AM
and for comparison, iPhone... 269

18 months
600 mins
500 texts
45

-- WEAK.



Hmm,
Don't you also get unlimited Data with this like here in the USA ?

Project
Jan 22, 2008, 08:37 AM
Ha... except, no. You're talking out of your arse. You can't have any idea of the European phone market:

Prada Phone - FREE

600 mins included each month
500 Text included each month
35 per month, 18 months

LG Viewty - FREE

18 month contract length
400 minutes per month
500 texts per month
but! 15 for first 8 months instead of 30

and for comparison, iPhone... 269

18 months
600 mins
500 texts
45

-- WEAK.

These are FREE touchscreen phones with 35 or less tariffs. It's incredibly easy to completely disregard the iPhone.

It's not that people can't afford iPhones, they just do not represent any sort of value in this market... yet. Let's see what iPhone 2 will bring.

Unless you don't mind paying "269 for the "look at me" factor your money is better spent elsewhere.

Does the Prada include unlimited data?

And the iPhone is definitely worth 269 more than the Prada over 18 months. It is light years ahead of it. Only an idiot would put them in the same category due to them being both touch screen. Its like saying a BMW 3 series is in the same category as a Mondeo because they all have 4 wheels and an engine.

Can you sync the Prada with iTunes? My iCal+Address Book? My iPhoto? My bookmarks? Does it come with 8GB of flash built in? Can it even do javascript? Will it allow me to take my podcasts with me automatically, marking them as "read" as I play them, telling iTunes to go get the latest episode? Does it come with a multitouch screen? Does it come with a 600mhz+ processor with 128MB of RAM? Does it even have 128MB of flash memory for storage on board? LOL. Does it come with a high resolution, 160PPI screen? Can I buy DRM free music OTA with it and have it automatically sync back with my music library when I dock? Will it sync my Mail settings?

I'd also be very surprised if the Prada phone sold 200,000 units in its first two months in the UK. The Prada phone has sold around 700,000 worldwide since May, despite it being unlocked in all territories. The iPhone has sold 4m in 4 countries since June.

To sum up, your argument is a complete non argument.

jnc
Jan 22, 2008, 10:49 AM
Does the Prada include unlimited data?

And the iPhone is definitely worth 269 more than the Prada over 18 months. It is light years ahead of it. Only an idiot would put them in the same category due to them being both touch screen. Its like saying a BMW 3 series is in the same category as a Mondeo because they all have 4 wheels and an engine.

Can you sync the Prada with iTunes? My iCal+Address Book? My iPhoto? My bookmarks? Does it come with 8GB of flash built in? Can it even do javascript? Will it allow me to take my podcasts with me automatically, marking them as "read" as I play them, telling iTunes to go get the latest episode? Does it come with a multitouch screen? Does it come with a 600mhz+ processor with 128MB of RAM? Does it even have 128MB of flash memory for storage on board? LOL. Does it come with a high resolution, 160PPI screen? Can I buy DRM free music OTA with it and have it automatically sync back with my music library when I dock? Will it sync my Mail settings?

I'd also be very surprised if the Prada phone sold 200,000 units in its first two months in the UK. The Prada phone has sold around 700,000 worldwide since May, despite it being unlocked in all territories. The iPhone has sold 4m in 4 countries since June.

To sum up, your argument is a complete non argument.

Oh, you sure showed me. Exactly people give a ***** about ANY of the things you mentioned? To break it down, the broad public see, "touch screen phone". No one but nerds on boards like ours could care any less about the other features.

To be honest I didn't read half of what you wrote but I'm sure it said something like the same old "blah blah, visual voicemail, multi touch ... you can't get these amazing features anywhere else". Please try and understand - No one cares.

To repeat - the broad public (where the money's at) see "hmm.... a selection of touch screen phones - free, free, 269 ... I'll take a free one. Kthx"

Unreserved Apple fanboy sees "OMG iPod + Phone? MULTI-TOUCH? 269! HOW CAN I LOSE!!!"

Project
Jan 22, 2008, 10:58 AM
Oh, you sure showed me. Exactly people give a ***** about ANY of the things you mentioned? To break it down, the broad public see, "touch screen phone". No one but nerds on boards like ours could care any less about the other features.

To be honest I didn't read half of what you wrote but I'm sure it said something like the same old "blah blah, visual voicemail, multi touch ... you can't get these amazing features anywhere else". Please try and understand - No one cares.

To repeat - the broad public (where the money's at) see "hmm.... a selection of touch screen phones - free, free, 269 ... I'll take a free one. Kthx"

Unreserved Apple fanboy sees "OMG iPod + Phone? MULTI-TOUCH? 269! HOW CAN I LOSE!!!"

Yawn.

If you actually read the post, you would see that the iPhone has already outsold the Prada, by a considerable margin, despite the price. iPhone in UK alone, in 2 months ~200,000 units. Prada worldwide, in 8 months, just short of 700,000 units.

Your point is therefore completely moot.

jnc
Jan 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Hmm,
Don't you also get unlimited Data with this like here in the USA ?

That's not such a big thing anymore - nearly every phone offers it. noted that iPhone does have the free wifi as well. The Viewty's 3G though.

Anyway I think what's more pressing here is amount of minutes and texts offered - 200 minutes and 200 texts on the base iPhone tariff of 35 is obscene. Visual voicemail and unlimited data don't save that...

jnc
Jan 22, 2008, 11:10 AM
Yawn.

If you actually read the post, you would see that the iPhone has already outsold the Prada, by a considerable margin, despite the price. iPhone in UK alone, in 2 months ~200,000 units. Prada worldwide, in 8 months, just short of 700,000 units.

Your point is therefore completely moot.

OP's article says 190,000. The LG Prada phone, which doesn't have iBrandstrength anyway, isn't the only touchscreen competition I mentioned - Viewty sales in the UK were reported at over 300,000 (http://www.trustedreviews.com/mobile-phones/news/2007/12/24/LG-Viewty-UK-Sales-Beating-iPhone/p1) and that was a month ago.

Stop failing. :D

northy124
Jan 22, 2008, 11:11 AM
Haven't read thread all the way through but i personally think that the price is way to high 899 for the first year (Includes price of iPhone). Also many people don't want a non 3G mobile/cell phone as GRPS is crap over here 3G is the norm now.

Just my 2

Chillijam
Jan 22, 2008, 11:17 AM
Does the Prada include unlimited data?

<snippety-snip />

Can you sync the Prada with iTunes? My iCal+Address Book? My iPhoto? My bookmarks? Does it come with 8GB of flash built in? Can it even do javascript? Will it allow me to take my podcasts with me automatically, marking them as "read" as I play them, telling iTunes to go get the latest episode? Does it come with a multitouch screen? Does it come with a 600mhz+ processor with 128MB of RAM? Does it even have 128MB of flash memory for storage on board? LOL. Does it come with a high resolution, 160PPI screen? Can I buy DRM free music OTA with it and have it automatically sync back with my music library when I dock? Will it sync my Mail settings?

<snip some more />

To sum up, your argument is a complete non argument.

Unlimited data? No, but then - it's a phone playing at being a phone rather than an iPod playing at being a phone.

All those other features? I doubt the Prada has most of the things you mentioned. Again, it's a phone. If it will send and receive calls and text messages, then it has done it's job. For me, and probably a lot of other users in the UK, all that other stuff is just a bonus. The iPhone is undoubtedly worth the 269 price tag, but what the other poster was saying was that the UK market has set itself up on the concept of "Pay for the line and call costs, and you get the device for free". The iPhone is bucking that trend, and as a result it is pricing itself out of the mass market.

This is just my opinion, and you are welcome to disagree if you wish. It won't stop you being wrong, though. ;)

Project
Jan 22, 2008, 11:19 AM
OP's article says 190,000. Prada isn't the only touchscreen device I mentioned - Viewty sales in the UK were reported at over 300,000 (http://www.trustedreviews.com/mobile-phones/news/2007/12/24/LG-Viewty-UK-Sales-Beating-iPhone/p1) and that was a month ago.

Stop failing. :D

I apologise for the 5% difference in sales. Still, 4m iPhone sales and counting in just 4 markets kills the Prada. So I repeat, your original point is completely moot

The Viewty is selling extremely well in the UK. But you are forgetting the small factor of Apple being a business, and not an Excel spreadsheet. Can be seen to be outselling the iPhone (and every other high end phone) 2-1, but most of those come free with a contract. Apple is bringing in 269 for every single sale.

The point is, Apple know better than you when it comes to how to make the most money.

Project
Jan 22, 2008, 11:23 AM
Unlimited data? No, but then - it's a phone playing at being a phone rather than an iPod playing at being a phone.

All those other features? I doubt the Prada has most of the things you mentioned. Again, it's a phone. If it will send and receive calls and text messages, then it has done it's job. For me, and probably a lot of other users in the UK, all that other stuff is just a bonus. The iPhone is undoubtedly worth the 269 price tag, but what the other poster was saying was that the UK market has set itself up on the concept of "Pay for the line and call costs, and you get the device for free". The iPhone is bucking that trend, and as a result it is pricing itself out of the mass market.

This is just my opinion, and you are welcome to disagree if you wish. It won't stop you being wrong, though. ;)\


But the iPhone outsold the Prada, whilst bucking the trend of the market, and generally being a million times better device.

So what is exactly the point the guy is trying to make?

That the iPhone would sell more if it was cheaper? Wow. Amazing insight.

However, you cannot argue that it isn't selling units. 200,000 in 2 months is nothing to sneer at, given that 18m phones are sold in the UK each year - most being cheap handsets. Those are very good figures for what is the highest price phone in most stores, and I would guess that Apple has a very healthy share of the , if not volume.

Its almost like people are expecting it to take 70% of the market like the iPod. There are ways of entering an entrenched market as a new competitor. Market skimming is one of them.

jnc
Jan 22, 2008, 11:31 AM
I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm sure Apple laid down lofty negotiations for network exclusivity and no doubt a cut of the tariffs too, plus they get the unit price so they probably aren't too bothered how many actually wind up in general usage... it can't be good for public image though - however much is in the coffers you still want to appear to be destroying the competition.

o2 probably haemorraged money in order to grab iPhone exclusivity from a better network like T-Mobile or Orange, and it's too bad that the tariffs reflect that or iPhone would be doing much better than it is on the "excel spreadsheet" (:rolleyes:) as well.

northy124
Jan 22, 2008, 11:32 AM
If people have a problem with pricing and they know a person in US or going on hols there buy one there thats what i'm doing as the price is to much over here at the moment. I'm 16 so i couldn't get a contract anyway plus wouldn't mind paying 269 for it if it was Unlocked

jnc
Jan 22, 2008, 11:36 AM
So what is exactly the point the guy is trying to make?

That the iPhone would sell more if it was cheaper? Wow. Amazing insight.

Yet somehow, you still found a way to disagree!

If people have a problem with pricing and they know a person in US or going on hols there buy one there thats what i'm doing as the price is to much over here at the moment. I'm 16 so i couldn't get a contract anyway plus wouldn't mind paying 269 for it if it was Unlocked

I'm not sure how far you'll get when it comes to firmware updates and the like if you use a foreign phone in this manner. You certainly won't get the precious visual voicemail and nationwide edge/wifi coverage.

northy124
Jan 22, 2008, 11:46 AM
I'm not sure how far you'll get when it comes to firmware updates and the like if you use a foreign phone in this manner. You certainly won't get the precious visual voicemail and nationwide edge/wifi coverage.

I don't care about visual voice mail i had an N-Gage from Taiwan when i meant there and it worked fine. WiFi/Edge should work over here like they do in US i have a US AEBS that works fine hoping this does to LoL.