Netflix to Offer Mac Video Streaming in 2008

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

AlleyInsider reports (http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/01/netflix-mac-streaming-support-coming-this-year-nflx.html) that during their Q4 financial results, Netflix confirmed that they were hoping to have a Mac web-streaming video solution available in 2008. An earlier Netflix blog entry (http://blog.netflix.com/2007/08/instant-watching-on-mac-firefox-and.html) from August had reported the same expectation. The core issue has been a lack of an available Digital Rights Management solution for the Mac:
A key issue for delivering movies online is that the studios require use of DRM (Digital Rights Management) to protect titles. And that's our holdup for the Mac - there's not yet a studio-sanctioned, publicly-available Mac DRM solution (Apple doesn't license theirs). I can promise you that, when an approved solution becomes available for the Mac, we'll be there.

Microsoft's Silverlight video technology appears to be the most promising solution which will support cross-platform (PC and Mac) DRM-encoded video. Silverlight is available in beta for Mac (http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default_ns.aspx) from Microsoft.

Netflix recently announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/14/amazon-pepsi-and-sony;-netflix-streaming/) that they were expanding their streaming service to allow users to download an unlimited number of movies per month for a flat $8.99 fee. Later this year, they also plan on launching a set top box (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/03/netflix-lg-to-deliver-movies-direct-to-tv/) to allow users to watch streaming movies on their television. In contrast, Apple's movie rental solution offers $3.99/$4.99 24-hour rentals, and also offers a set-top box (Apple TV) to watch movies.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/23/netflix-to-offer-mac-video-streaming-in-2008/)

[devilot]

Ugh. Figures this happens after I decide to close my Netflix account. :p

[overanalyzer]

I guess this means I can stop sending them weekly complaints/suggestions to add Mac support :)

[MacinDoc]

If the content is HD (at least 720P), and if they offer the service in Canada, I'm in!

[a1016neo]

Yah... As the Mac gains market share the more mac capable services there are :eek:

[McGiord]

Good...Good...

Apple really needs good competitors in the online video rentals market.
What I like from Netflix is their international and independedt films availability plus the fair monthly fee I pay.
This could force Apple to change its strategy and give us unlimited movie rentals for a flat fee.

Also I hope there is more online HD content.
________
mflb (http://mflbvaporizer.com)

[mac 2005]

********. If Apple can offer downloads of major motion picture studio-produced movies, then there is a DRM-enabled streaming solution for the Mac.

Netflix is being L-A-Z-Y. ****ers.

[SheriffParker]

********. If Apple can offer downloads of major motion picture studio-produced movies, then there is a DRM-enabled streaming solution for the Mac.

Netflix is being L-A-Z-Y. ****ers.

Did you even read the article? Apple won't license its DRM to Netflix... obviously since Netflix is a movie rental service and not a computer software powerhouse, they are having trouble writing DRM that the studios will approve.

[minik]

hmm.. I thought about canceling my Netflix subscription.

[shadowfax]

Ah, the sweet smell of competition. I hope this will drive Apple to better prices and terms on their rentals.

[kainjow]

This is great news. I watch their movies under Boot Camp and it works well. Not a lot of your typical movies are available, but they have added several seasons of tv shows, and there are a lot of documentaries and foreign films - stuff that doesn't require surround sound and an HDTV ;)

[maknik]

Funny, I just tried Netflix streaming for the first time on my MacBook in Parallels. Sadly, while better than YouTube, it wasn't much better than Google Video quality, with lots of stuttering. I hope Bootcamp works a bit better until the Mac client comes out -- they have a surprisingly large catalog available.

[mambodancer]

Hmmm...$8.95 for unlimited video streaming. That's a great deal and I'll be glad to see it for the Mac but how long will it be before the studios shut this down? They aren't making any money from this kind of deal.

[solipsism]

I'm glad there is competition on the Mac front for video downloads. This will push Apple to offer more options, at better quality,and lower prices. Though the current model is as cheap or cheaper than most cable VoD services, which is there more direct competitor here. Netlfix will still have its uses and I'll still rent from iTunes Store and keep my Netflix account.

MS needs a killer application for Silverlight to gain footing, this may be it. Is NBC still going to use it for there TV Shows?


Ugh. Figures this happens after I decide to close my Netflix account. :p
Then open it back up, it's not like there is a signup fee.

[peestandingup]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Netflix recently announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/14/amazon-pepsi-and-sony;-netflix-streaming/) that they were expanding their streaming service to allow users to download an unlimited number of movies per month for a flat $8.99 fee.

I hate to nitpick, but this isn't proper terminology.

Netflix users don't "download" movies (like iTunes rentals), they stream it. I know download has different meanings to different people, but most view it as saving an actual file to your computer.

And the $8.99 flat fee doesnt just include streaming, which is how this makes it seem. Its their regular DVD "1 out at a time" service that they've had all along. Streaming was just thrown in for free.

[mambodancer]

Good...Good...

Apple really needs good competitors in the online video rentals market.
What I like from Netflix is their international and independedt films availability plus the fair monthly fee I pay.
This could force Apple to change its strategy and give us unlimited movie rentals for a flat fee.

Also I hope there is more online HD content.

Again, it has been said before but I guess it has to be repeated. Apple isn't alone in setting the prices it charges for the services they provide through iTunes. If they were, there would be no DRM and the prices would be lower. Remember, Jobs himself had said at one point he thought movies should sell for no more the $9.95. Couldn't do it because the studios don't want digital downloads to cut into their DVD sales.

[JPark]

...Remember, Jobs himself had said at one point he thought movies should sell for no more the $9.95. Couldn't do it because the studios don't want digital downloads to cut into their DVD sales.

Or possibly because Walmart doesn't want digital downloads to cut into their DVD sales.

[aLoC]

Apple should do a deal with these guys to let them use Quicktime DRM. We don't want them ending up using Silverlight, and then we depend on MS for our access to this service.

[mambodancer]

I hate to nitpick, but this isn't proper terminology.

Netflix users don't "download" movies (like iTunes rentals), they stream it. I know download has different meanings to different people, but most view it as saving an actual file to your computer.

And the $8.99 flat fee doesnt just include streaming, which is how this makes it seem. Its their regular DVD "1 out at a time" service that they've had all along. Streaming was just thrown in for free.

When I can download the movie from netflix and watch it on my iPhone, iPod, laptop or AppleTV then I'll be impressed. The problem with video streaming is in the quality of the internet connection you have and the "size" of the video window you choose to watch the movie in. If you increase the size to fill the screen, the images can become very pixelated and choppy and the video starts to drop frames.

I've used NBC's service HULU and the IPTV service Joost, both of which I recommend to watch streamed TV shows I've missed. I just wish I could download the shows and watch them without relying on a good, consistent high-speed internet connection.

And, now comes the news that Comcast maybe (actually is) throttling down bit torrent style internet connections. It takes little imagination to guess how they feel about people dropping their cable subscriptions and going all IPTV (I'm close to doing this myself).

One interesting side note regarding comcast high speed internet. I signed up for the highest speed service available packaged with Cable TV. When I got fed up with the quality of the cable service, I called Comcast and asked to have my cable TV discontinued in favor of only high speed internet. There reply was telling. I could do that but I would save only $5 a month (that, apparently is the value of cable TV) and, since it was no longer being bundled, I couldn't have the highest speed internet any more. They would drop the speed by about 33%! Hell of deal and great customer support but it shows how they feel about the digital world the rest of us are eager to embrace.

Here's the link from Boing Boing re: Comcast-

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/23/is-comcast-really-bl.html

[killerrobot]

Apple should do a deal with these guys to let them use Quicktime DRM. We don't want them ending up using Silverlight, and then we depend on MS for our access to this service.

I for one don't care if we have to depend on Silverlight...I already depend on VLC for almost all video anyways.
Once Netflix streams to Mac, my membership is back on.

[peestandingup]

When I can download the movie from netflix and watch it on my iPhone, iPod, laptop or AppleTV then I'll be impressed. The problem with video streaming is in the quality of the internet connection you have and the "size" of the video window you choose to watch the movie in. If you increase the size to fill the screen, the images can become very pixelated and choppy and the video starts to drop frames.

I've used NBC's service HULU and the IPTV service Joost, both of which I recommend to watch streamed TV shows I've missed. I just wish I could download the shows and watch them without relying on a good, consistent high-speed internet connection.

And, now comes the news that Comcast maybe (actually is) throttling down bit torrent style internet connections. It takes little imagination to guess how they feel about people dropping their cable subscriptions and going all IPTV (I'm close to doing this myself).

One interesting side note regarding comcast high speed internet. I signed up for the highest speed service available packaged with Cable TV. When I got fed up with the quality of the cable service, I called Comcast and asked to have my cable TV discontinued in favor of only high speed internet. There reply was telling. I could do that but I would save only $5 a month (that, apparently is the value of cable TV) and, since it was no longer being bundled, I couldn't have the highest speed internet any more. They would drop the speed by about 33%! Hell of deal and great customer support but it shows how they feel about the digital world the rest of us are eager to embrace.

Here's the link from Boing Boing re: Comcast-

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/23/is-comcast-really-bl.html
I was just clarifying. Im not partial to either service really. Although I will say that if 24 hours is all you get to watch a movie on that iPod/iPhone, whats the bloody point?? And my Netflix streaming looks great actually. Have you used it??

Comcast has always offered that top tier internet plan (and also for discount) when bundled with TV service. Here's what to do. Call them back & tell them you want the "Limited Basic Service" cable TV plan. Its $13.50 & they DO NOT advertise this service & they will give you . This way you get the discount & the top tier internet plan.

Seriously, this is what I have.

[marketwall]

Apple's movie rental solution offers $3.99/$4.99 24-hour rentals

Apple's movie rentals start at $2.99. $2.99 for Library titles, $3.99 for new releases, and a dollar more for HD.

I don't want to pay a monthly subscription, so Apple's solution is better for me than Netflix. Also, I'm not keen on using on using Microsoft's Silverlight. It should be available for Mac eventually, but Microsoft doesn't have a good track record of maintaining their cross-platform compatibility. And since Silverlight for Mac is an afterthought (still not out of beta yet), updates will probably always lag far behind the Windows platform.

[digitalnicotine]

I love the Netflix streaming, and use a cheap PC laptop pretty much exclusively for that and a few other PC only things (I use my mac for everything else). They used to allow a certain number of hours of streaming, depending on your plan, but they went unlimited about a day before the Mac Conference this year. I keep Netflix because I get Blu-ray rentals, so the streaming just sweetened the deal. Now I'm thinking I like what I see so far with the iTunes rentals, and will probably use that to rent movies that are wait listed on Netflix.

Curious if other Netflix users have had any issues with getting cracked discs in the mail? I've gotten 3 in the past 30 days, and it's extremely annoying to have to send them back and wait for them to send a working version. If that continues, it may cause me to switch wholly to iTunes.

[aLoC]

I for one don't care if we have to depend on Silverlight...I already depend on VLC for almost all video anyways.
Once Netflix streams to Mac, my membership is back on.

It's just that MS are so slow to release updates. So imagine OS 10.6 comes out and breaks Silverlight. If MS takes a year to update it, it's no Netflix for a year.

[cswallow01]

Even if Netflix, Movielink or CinemaNow utilized Silverlight or Flash for movies on the Mac, there's just one little issue...

THEY AIN'T NEVER GONNA TOUCH THE IPODS!!!

So anyone's dream of utilizing a Netflix To-Go type service is dreaming, less Apple wises up and decides to play nice & fair with their iPod line-up.

Then everyone will be pushing for DRM-Free Movies!!! Ha-Ha! Good Luck!

Maybe they can SDK something for the iPhone/iPod Touch, but I think the iPod Nano and iPod Classic is more like... HALF PAST NEVER!!!

I guess the Starz Vongo deal fell through with Apple.... I thought they were in negotiations like 2-3 years ago. The only thing I thought was standing in the way was the DRM, for it... Now we have FairPlay 3, with rental/subscription capabilities and nothing has happend...

Intriguing!!!

[jackc]

If the quality is good on the set top box, it seems like a better deal than Apple if you watch more than a few movies a month. Would the only advantage of Apple be to watch on your iPod?

[killerrobot]

It's just that MS are so slow to release updates. So imagine OS 10.6 comes out and breaks Silverlight. If MS takes a year to update it, it's no Netflix for a year.

10.6!? They still haven't pushed 10.5.2 out to users.:eek:
I'd have a least a good year and a half of movie time with Netflix before I'd have to worry about anything.
In a year and half I'd expect a lot of things to change-especially since tv goes digital in a year.

[thefunkymunky]

Why not use RealVideo? It's DRM enabled on both PC and Mac. The new Mac client is actually not that bad. :P

[overanalyzer]

Hmmm...$8.95 for unlimited video streaming. That's a great deal and I'll be glad to see it for the Mac but how long will it be before the studios shut this down? They aren't making any money from this kind of deal.

Actually, studios are making money on the deal. Netflix is swallowing the cost of running the service for the time being, because they know they have to be competitive in the electronic movie delivery business for when DVDs become irrelevant and their core business model no longer makes sense. I believe they've spent about $45 million in the last year on R&D and licensing fees for the streaming service and intend to continue operating it at loss with their eyes toward the future.

[siurpeeman]

Ugh. Figures this happens after I decide to close my Netflix account. :p

ha. i'm right there with you. i closed my account two weeks ago, and i'm too lazy to sign up with them again. :o

[hvfsl]

I guess they aren't aware of the BBC's iPlayer which runs on Macs (and IIRC Linux), which uses flash.

[mbene12]

Hmmm...$8.95 for unlimited video streaming. That's a great deal and I'll be glad to see it for the Mac but how long will it be before the studios shut this down

Why should the studios bother? Other than a few ok-ish TV show dvds the video content that is available for streaming is the "dust-gatherers". Virtually none of it has been in mainstream theaters in the last 10 years. I was really disappointed when I checked it out after hearing they were offering the streaming essentially free. I suppose its great if you like to watch old documentaries, foreign films, and classic movies, but it had little to interest me.

Combine that with the fact that you will always have to watch it on a cpu (im using a laptop as my main) and its really a completely different product than ATV. I dont think Netflix wants the hassle of negotiating for the prime movies with the studios and setting up a more complicated viewing structure. If they were going to let you stream their whole DVD catalog (forget about HD) I cant imagine a monthly subscription fee of less than $30.

[ammon]

Okay, I believe there is one thing that everyone is missing here (except mbene12 above) - Has anyone actually seen the 6,000 movies that Netflix has to offer via Instant Viewing?!


I've had a Netflix account for about 2 months now. When my wife and I want to watch a movie and we don't have any Netflix DVDs that we haven't watched yet, we spend 20-30 minutes just trying to find something decent to watch!

Sure they have a *few* good movies, but once you watch those, there isn't anything left! 99% off all their content from the past 5 years are either from no-name studios or are TV shows. AND they have almost NO good content for my little kids to watch. (no good cartoons or animated movies)


Right now my wife and I decided to watch the old TV show Columbo because there just isn't anything else better.


For the record, if you use Parallels to watch the movies it is choppy. BUT if you boot natively to Boot Camp it runs VERY smooth and looks great! If you don't have Boot Camp installed, you can always use VMware's Fusion. If you enable dual processor support then it is much smoother compared to Parallels.


Okay enough ranting.... Now, having said all that, I still have my Netflix subscription because there just isn't anywhere to rent DVDs here up in the mountains so I get unlimited instant viewing for free. I'm sure I've already wasted 8+ hours trying to find something good to watch and I'm sure I'll probably spend another 20+ hours looking again! (I'm convinced they must have at least ONE more movie that is worth viewing)


PS. For those of you who don't have accounts, here is a list of their instant viewing movies:
http://netflixwatchnow.blogspot.com/

[age234]

Funny, I just tried Netflix streaming for the first time on my MacBook in Parallels. Sadly, while better than YouTube, it wasn't much better than Google Video quality, with lots of stuttering. I hope Bootcamp works a bit better until the Mac client comes out -- they have a surprisingly large catalog available.

Really? Because I use it under Bootcamp and it's DVD quality and plays perfectly.

I hope this works out for Netflix, because I prefer having access to an unlimited amount (and the actual DVDs if I want special features) over Apple's one-at-a-time model.

[garty]

Watching a movie on my computer? No AppleTV? No iPhone? No thanks!!!

[Breckenridge]

It's about time, I've been using a mac for the past 10 years and I always felt that the world did not give a cent whether mac users can access their new services or not. Now a good true iptv solution for the mac would be nice.

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by maknik
Funny, I just tried Netflix streaming for the first time on my MacBook in Parallels. Sadly, while better than YouTube, it wasn't much better than Google Video quality, with lots of stuttering. I hope Bootcamp works a bit better until the Mac client comes out -- they have a surprisingly large catalog available.

Really? Because I use it under Bootcamp and it's DVD quality and plays perfectly.

I hope this works out for Netflix, because I prefer having access to an unlimited amount (and the actual DVDs if I want special features) over Apple's one-at-a-time model.

The problem is Parallels and VMware, not OSX. Same thing occurs with VMware on a Windows host.

Windows will use hardware decoding in the graphics card when available, and it will create an "overlay" region for the display window. The "overlay" bypasses much of the graphics processing so that the video can more or less be written directly into the frame buffer.

Neither hardware decoding nor overlays are supported by the virtual graphics card, so lots more CPU is needed (this is why VMware's SMP support helps).

(If you move the video player window when the system is booted natively - you'll often see that the video window lags behind the window frame when you move the window. That's the effect of the player trying to move the overlay to keep it in the frame.)

[Yvan256]

I switched to OS X so I would never be dependent on Microsoft ever again, for anything.

There's no way I'm ever installing Microsoft's Silverlight (or Microsoft anything) onto my Macs. :mad:

[mac 2005]

Did you even read the article? Apple won't license its DRM to Netflix... obviously since Netflix is a movie rental service and not a computer software powerhouse, they are having trouble writing DRM that the studios will approve.

You seem to be taking my comments a bit too personally.

The point is that if Apple can implement a DRM solution that satisfies the studios, then Netflix also can implement a solution that satisfies the studios. Netflix may not be a "software powerhouse," but it has significant financial resources and can purchase the necessary solution.

Any Mac user who has subscribed to Netflix, as I have for nearly two years now, knows that Netflix has long been promising this service for Macs as though they were actually doing something about it. We now learn they're just getting started.

[mambodancer]

Why should the studios bother? Other than a few ok-ish TV show dvds the video content that is available for streaming is the "dust-gatherers".


Because it is all about getting every dollar from every distribution system they can or have you not been paying attention to the DRM issues, writers strike etc.?

Anyway...here is an interesting link from an article in the NYT.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/itunes-movie-rentals-and-netflix-online-different-markets/index.html?ref=technology

[overcast]

I switched to OS X so I would never be dependent on Microsoft ever again, for anything.

There's no way I'm ever installing Microsoft's Silverlight (or Microsoft anything) onto my Macs. :mad:
Oh get over yourself, it's web based media codec like Flash. I guess you won't be watching any HD movies encoded in VC-1 either then, or use Hotmail, or use any of the millions of companies whose services run entirely off of Microsoft products, or web pages that run off of IIS. I bet you have a MySpace account right? How about Ebay? How about playing on an XBOX, or any games developed for/on Windows platforms.

[The Phazer]

The point is that if Apple can implement a DRM solution that satisfies the studios, then Netflix also can implement a solution that satisfies the studios. Netflix may not be a "software powerhouse," but it has significant financial resources and can purchase the necessary solution.

There isn't a "necessary solution" to purchase. Nobody makes one, and I'd actually quite seriously say netflix doesn't have the money to justify creating their own.

Later this year there will be, but there's not now - and those solutions are coming from Adobe and Microsoft. Apple really need to sort licencing Fairplay out.

Phazer

[crees!]

Oh get over yourself, it's web based media codec like Flash. I guess you won't be watching any HD movies encoded in VC-1 either then, or use Hotmail, or use any of the millions of companies whose services run entirely off of Microsoft products, or web pages that run off of IIS. I bet you have a MySpace account right? How about Ebay? How about playing on an XBOX, or any games developed for/on Windows platforms.

Exactly. Silverlight is MS's response to Adobe Flash. It's still in beta. Promising, but no where near taking a chunk of the Flash market. Though having DRM built-in to the player. That's interesting.. but that's MS.

[mac 2005]

I'd actually quite seriously say netflix doesn't have the money to justify creating their own.

Netflix can afford it. Consider its Q4-07 financial statement.

Revenue for the fourth quarter of 2007 was $302.4 million, representing 9 percent year-over-year growth from $277.2 million for the fourth quarter of 2006, and 3 percent sequential increase from $294.0 million for the third quarter of 2007. Revenue for fiscal 2007 was $1.205 billion, up 21 percent from $996.7 million for fiscal 2006.

[Popeye206]

If the quality is good on the set top box, it seems like a better deal than Apple if you watch more than a few movies a month. Would the only advantage of Apple be to watch on your iPod?

Just a note on the above.. I think the other advantage to Apples Rental Service is going to be 5.1 sound, hi-def options, and near new releases - which from what I've seen from NetFlicks... they may be cheap... but the content is not that great. However.... I do like the competition... I want more time out of Apple's service and a monthly deal of sorts would be great!

[Intarweb]

It's funny watching Applebots squirm when another company takes on Apple head on. When the Netflix set-top box launches, AppleTV is in massive trouble. Netflix's on-demand library will grow (unless Apple has an exclusive agreement with certain studios, but don't think they do) and will be robust when the set-top box launches. Compare the unlimited streaming, with Apple's over priced rentals and asinine 24 hour watch window, Apple will have to do something massive to try and keep the AppleTV afloat.

[happydude]

meh, i'm less than enthusiastic. as it is now, netflix's selection is terrible for their streaming movie selection. i've watched it on my work pc laptop and the quality also is terrible. i'd assume the selection will get better, but apple already has a one up for quality at least by offering DVD and HD quality. my one hope is that netflix as a competitor will drive apple's movie rental price down, or at least expand it to beyond 24 hours.

until then . . . *yawn*

[Intarweb]

Just a note on the above.. I think the other advantage to Apples Rental Service is going to be 5.1 sound, hi-def options, and near new releases - which from what I've seen from NetFlicks... they may be cheap... but the content is not that great. However.... I do like the competition... I want more time out of Apple's service and a monthly deal of sorts would be great!

5.1 will most definitely be part of Netfix's set-top box option. HD, not sure of at this point. Also, Apple's rental charge doesn't include any extras. When I want extras I can't get that from Apple "rental" store. When I want that for a movie I stream from Netflix, I can get a physical copy of it, in HD if available for no extra charge. You can't really beat what Netflix is, and will, give customers.

[Westside guy]

... Netflix confirmed that they were hoping to have a Mac web-streaming video solution available in 2008.

Well, speaking as a TiVo user who watched TiVo spend several years "hoping" to have a Mac version of TivoToGo out - I'm not getting my hopes up.

I'm still waiting for a decent download solution - so far the list of titles for all of the various services is way too limited to compete with the variety Netflix offers via DVD.

[CWallace]

Personally, I view options as something good.

Even if it isn't perfect - heck, even if it is just average - at the start, there is the opportunity for it to get better down the road.

I'd rather have the option to at least get an idea of what could be possible rather then have nothing, waiting (perhaps in vain) for the "perfect" thing to come out.

Especially since my idea of "perfect" may very well not be the same as someone else's.

[Doctor Q]

I've complained to (and about) Netflix for their lack of Mac support, but (shhhh! keep this to yourself) I've stayed a subscriber anyway because their service overall is worth the price even without the streaming movies. But adding Mac support will turn me from a customer into a happier customer.

[twoodcc]

good to hear.

[min_t]

Yeah, Netflix is worried because Apple presents a legit competition. The only thing wrong with Apple's rental model is that it's 24 hours only. 3 days is the sweet spot. They foresee the inevitable availability of 1 button rental download on the iPhone/iTouch. So with Apple, you get HD rentals on the pc, TV, mobile wifi...Apple everywhere. Yeah, netflix should be worried.

[milo]

Good...Good...

Apple really needs good competitors in the online video rentals market.
What I like from Netflix is their international and independedt films availability plus the fair monthly fee I pay.
This could force Apple to change its strategy and give us unlimited movie rentals for a flat fee.

Also I hope there is more online HD content.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Their "international and independedt films availability" is talking about physical disk rental, right? Their download selection so far isn't that great.

Renting a physical disk just requires the company to buy a disk. Streaming requires a payment to the studio for each view (which is probably why the netflix selection is so bad, it's the stuff nobody really wants to see so the studios practically give it away. Not to mention that while Netflix is offering it, they might only be able to afford to do it because very few are taking advantage. If it really took off, they would probably start losing money on it and would probably have to cap usage.

We won't see an unlimited rental model comparable to Netflix in pricing and selection unless the studios radically change the way they charge for content. Apple nor anyone else can compete with mailing out disks, it's flat out impossible right now.

Ah, the sweet smell of competition. I hope this will drive Apple to better prices and terms on their rentals.

And I hope it drives netflix to better selection and HD. While netflix's streaming is cheaper, it looks like apple already may have a better selection.

The NF version also isn't that interesting to me until they provide a way to watch on a TV instead of a computer. They'd not only have to beat apple's rental service, but beat aTV as well to get me interested. I just wish apple would open up the aTV to other services so it could stream the netflix stuff as well.

[Intarweb]

The NF version also isn't that interesting to me until they provide a way to watch on a TV instead of a computer. They'd not only have to beat apple's rental service, but beat aTV as well to get me interested. I just wish apple would open up the aTV to other services so it could stream the netflix stuff as well.

Netflix has a set-top (attach it to your TV) box coming out that's made by LG.

[milo]

I've used NBC's service HULU and the IPTV service Joost, both of which I recommend to watch streamed TV shows I've missed. I just wish I could download the shows and watch them without relying on a good, consistent high-speed internet connection.

Hulu actually doesn't seem too bad, I also like the streaming ABC has. But are there straightforward ways to get them to a TV? If only apple and the studios would work together on something more open.

Netflix has a set-top (attach it to your TV) box coming out that's made by LG.

I know. But since it's not out yet, nobody knows if it will be any good or not.

[peestandingup]

For the record, if you use Parallels to watch the movies it is choppy. BUT if you boot natively to Boot Camp it runs VERY smooth and looks great! If you don't have Boot Camp installed, you can always use VMware's Fusion. If you enable dual processor support then it is much smoother compared to Parallels.The best solution I've found is to set up a BootCamp partition & install XP SP2 onto that. Then, use VMware Fusion to boot the BootCamp partition inside OS X instead of making a virtual one from scratch. It runs much faster that way & blows Parallels outta the water when you enable dual processor speed. I also did some tricks inside XP itself to disable some things to speed the OS up. This way, you dont have to keep rebooting everytime you wanna watch Netflix & their is hardly any performance loss.

It's funny watching Applebots squirm when another company takes on Apple head on. When the Netflix set-top box launches, AppleTV is in massive trouble. Netflix's on-demand library will grow (unless Apple has an exclusive agreement with certain studios, but don't think they do) and will be robust when the set-top box launches. Compare the unlimited streaming, with Apple's over priced rentals and asinine 24 hour watch window, Apple will have to do something massive to try and keep the AppleTV afloat.You're right. Heck, even now the AppleTV is still considered a failure & iTunes video is way below expectation. They're still gonna have to do a lot of convincing to get consumers onboard the iTunes/AppleTV train. Netflix has an ace in the hole already with their massive subscription base.

You gotta also remember that LG is a HUGE producer of HDTVs, so it wouldnt be outta the question that they could just build Netflix functionality right into some of their own displays, as well as offer the set top box for everyone else.

Its Apple who is playing catchup here.

[synth3tik]

So they are getting nervous about the iTMS rentals and finally decided to do mac streaming. This is something they should have done when they first introduced steaming rentals.

[forafireescape]

I guess this means I can stop sending them weekly complaints/suggestions to add Mac support :)

Me too ;)

[milo]

Heck, even now the AppleTV is still considered a failure & iTunes video is way below expectation. They're still gonna have to do a lot of convincing to get consumers onboard the iTunes/AppleTV train. Netflix has an ace in the hole already with their massive subscription base.

You consider netflix to have the advantage, but how many people are actually watching streamed movies from netflix? So far, from the numbers I've seen it looks like apple still is getting the majority of tv and movie downloads.

And is netflix downloading really going to be a serious competitor with no recent blockbuster movies? Do a little searching in netflix's download selection, and particularly look at their top 50 downloads. Not a single 2007 movie release that I've heard of (mostly documentary and straight to video). I only recognized about 4 of the 2006 releases. The best thing they have is some TV episodes. Until (if?) that improves, is NF downloading really a threat at all to any other download service?

[peestandingup]

You consider netflix to have the advantage, but how many people are actually watching streamed movies from netflix? So far, from the numbers I've seen it looks like apple still is getting the majority of tv and movie downloads.

And is netflix downloading really going to be a serious competitor with no recent blockbuster movies? Do a little searching in netflix's download selection, and particularly look at their top 50 downloads. Not a single 2007 movie release that I've heard of (mostly documentary and straight to video). I only recognized about 4 of the 2006 releases. The best thing they have is some TV episodes. Until (if?) that improves, is NF downloading really a threat at all to any other download service?Its true. I dont think NF is a threat now. I only use it to stream some TV shows they have on there & a handful of movies. I think if they had the selection, there would be no contest, but its not there yet.

[solipsism]

You're right. Heck, even now the AppleTV is still considered a failure & iTunes video is way below expectation. They're still gonna have to do a lot of convincing to get consumers onboard the iTunes/AppleTV train. Netflix has an ace in the hole already with their massive subscription base.

You gotta also remember that LG is a HUGE producer of HDTVs, so it wouldnt be outta the question that they could just build Netflix functionality right into some of their own displays, as well as offer the set top box for everyone else.

Its Apple who is playing catchup here.

They both have there pros and cons. Apple is the significantly farther ahead than anyone with stand-alone media extenders. Before the AppleTV came out almost all media extenders were more than the AppleTV. They were able to sell 300-400k without the rentals in place.

So far Netflix quality is well quite low while iTunes rentals is DVD quality or better (I've had as high as 853, compared to DVD's 720). Plus, the iTunes rentals can be played on portable devices.

Netflix also has it's benefits. One can get many more movies for their dollar if they are aggressive and will have a media extender option coming soon. Hopefully they will be higher quality than they are now and free through the Netflix extender. Even if they aren't higher quality I think many people will be okay with that, especially if it have obsolescing outputs like S-Video and Composite.

I have rented many movies from iTunes already and also maintain a Netflix account. I have no intention of giving up one for the other. They both suit different needs. Netflix is the farthest competition for Apple right now, the closest is cable company's On-Demand services which offer a similar time frame at comparable prices.

[nbs2]

Comcast has always offered that top tier internet plan (and also for discount) when bundled with TV service. Here's what to do. Call them back & tell them you want the "Limited Basic Service" cable TV plan. Its $13.50 & they DO NOT advertise this service & they will give you . This way you get the discount & the top tier internet plan.

$13.50? Where do you live? Ours is up to $15. Anything higher and we'll end up dropping it, as we are now at the break even point for the bundle discount on the internet service.

[Malarkey]

Netflix's strengths:

- huge selection of independent, foreign, obscure titles
- streaming is great for checking out movies for content, but it's no cinephile experience

Netflix's weaknesses:

- high definition: the wait for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD titles is intolerable
- their committment to Macs is less than believable until I see it

So while low-quality consumption of movies is becoming more readily available, there will still be a market for a more immersive experience. Or is that declining? Who will be the standard-bearer for high-definition? Is there any hope of high-definition streaming or downloads for rentals? I mean Blu-Ray quality.

[imbored]

I'm really disappointed that this hasn't happened sooner. I expected them to be streaming HD/Blu-Ray by this point in time. Fast internet connections have been available for a while, it's about time they started offering this for Macs

[solipsism]

I'm really disappointed that this hasn't happened sooner. I expected them to be streaming HD/Blu-Ray by this point in time. Fast internet connections have been available for a while, it's about time they started offering this for Macs

HD-DVD and Blu-ray encoded with VC-1 o H.264 will need a minimum of 20Mbps. That is a good deal more than most people's internet connection.

[zap2]

Good...but to late for me(personal)

Still nice to know they know we use the internet!

[CWallace]

I'm really disappointed that this hasn't happened sooner. I expected them to be streaming HD/Blu-Ray by this point in time. Fast internet connections have been available for a while, it's about time they started offering this for Macs

Some providers (Time Warner is the latest) are looking into the possibilities of implementing future bandwidth caps on their services which will impact the number of SD movies - to say nothing of HD movies - you could download per month before hitting that cap and then paying bandwidth fees on top of the rental.

Such caps would likely really impact the viability of such services, especially since most US customers do not have other options or those options have their own major drawbacks.

[overanalyzer]

Some providers (Time Warner is the latest) are looking into the possibilities of implementing future bandwidth caps on their services which will impact the number of SD movies - to say nothing of HD movies - you could download per month before hitting that cap and then paying bandwidth fees on top of the rental.

Such caps would likely really impact the viability of such services, especially since most US customers do not have other options or those options have their own major drawbacks.

I pay a flat rate with no caps for Comcast currently, and our service is pretty crappy. For the last several months, anytime we upload anything for more than 30-60 seconds (large e-mail attachments, FTP, posting photos to websites, online backups, etc.), our speed both up and down slows to a crawl that at times is actually slower than a 56k dialup connection.

If Comcast at some point decides to cap usage and increase our charges since we're heavy users, I'm perfectly happy, as long as they also stop traffic shaping our connection and provide guaranteed up/down speeds.

[solipsism]

I pay a flat rate with no caps for Comcast currently, and our service is pretty crappy. For the last several months, anytime we upload anything for more than 30-60 seconds (large e-mail attachments, FTP, posting photos to websites, online backups, etc.), our speed both up and down slows to a crawl that at times is actually slower than a 56k dialup connection.

If Comcast at some point decides to cap usage and increase our charges since we're heavy users, I'm perfectly happy, as long as they also stop traffic shaping our connection and provide guaranteed up/down speeds.

Wasn't Comcast one of the providers that were capping speeds for torrent packets?

Anyway, I have Comcast at 16Mbps and often get a solid 2MBps download speed, so I can't complain.

[overanalyzer]

Wasn't Comcast one of the providers that were capping speeds for torrent packets?

Anyway, I have Comcast at 16Mbps and often get a solid 2MBps download speed, so I can't complain.

Yes, they are. Our download on Comcast is actually quite impressive. The problem is if we upload at all, both our upload and download speeds are horrendous. We've had technicians come out repeatedly, replace our equipment and wiring, run tests, and have called and complained about a dozen times with no results. I'd like to switch to another provider, but unfortunately living in a high rise downtown, we don't have much in the way of alternatives.

[BioChron]

Netflix recently announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/14/amazon-pepsi-and-sony;-netflix-streaming/) that they were expanding their streaming service to allow users to download an unlimited number of movies per month for a flat $8.99 fee.

That would be awesome! I have a Netflix account myself, and being able to download an unlimited amount for a set price a month would be better then paying $4 a movie. It would save a lot of money, realistically.

[Rodimus Prime]

I switched to OS X so I would never be dependent on Microsoft ever again, for anything.

There's no way I'm ever installing Microsoft's Silverlight (or Microsoft anything) onto my Macs. :mad:

well you can thank apple for that. Apple complete refusal to let others use its DRM is starting to truly come back and haunt them.
Companies are afraid to try to make their own out of fear apple will just intentionally break it. Now MS is powerful enough to prevent that from happening. Just in things that some way directly compete with apple stuff, apple has a habit of not exactly playing nice.

[shadowfax]

well you can thank apple for that. Apple complete refusal to let others use its DRM is starting to truly come back and haunt them.
Companies are afraid to try to make their own out of fear apple will just intentionally break it. Now MS is powerful enough to prevent that from happening. Just in things that some way directly compete with apple stuff, apple has a habit of not exactly playing nice.

No, anyone can write DRM and make it work on OS X, and Apple couldn't and wouldn't break it. Why would they even care? that's not the real issue.

No one else writes DRM for Macs because there is NO POINT. the platform is teency-weency. The government in the UK has had to force the BBC to produce mac-compatible stuff, because, why bother?

The thing that Apple is really holding back from developers is the ability to get support for other DRM on the iPod. That's what they really want, and, thank APPLE, that's not going to happen, because that's just what the world needs, right? More DRM. I don't want Apple to license DRM because it's forcing the industry to NOT use DRM at all to get on the coveted iPod. That Apple has contributed to the downfall of DRM by making their own is brilliant irony, and quite frankly, sidled with Apple's desire to get its own (like everyone), what I think is eagle-eyed consumer protection. I really think Jobs & Apple really played the record industry--they seem to think that Amazon Unbox is going to hurt Apple... right, hurt Apple by allowing customers to put no-strings-attached media on their iPods, the same iPods that are making Apple a royal killing.

As for movies, I think that's a bit different. DRM will take a lot longer to overthrow with movies, and until it does, I'll be buying DVDs. As the Mac platform grows, though, it will get some other form of DRM support, like Silverlight that's already coming. And that's a reasonably great thing, to me. I don't care about DRM on something I have no intention of owning, rentals--that's all well and good. I would ecstatically pay $10/month to stream MS-DRMed videos to my Mac for rentals. If MS gives me a good deal on a product available on a platform I like, I am there. I *love* my MS Bluetooth notebook mouse, right down to its little travel pouch. Netflix for Digital downloads would be totally awesome, with or without MS, and I would certainly very rarely ever use Apple's comparatively overpriced system of rental.

[CWallace]

well you can thank apple for that. Apple complete refusal to let others use its DRM is starting to truly come back and haunt them.

Apple does not want to license FairPlay because if it gets out into the open, it will be reverse-engineered and hacked. Now for audio content that is no longer important because the music industry is moving to DRM-free music.

But the motion picture industry still very much demands DRM. They know the only reason their content is not pirated as much as music is because it is so much larger. So they're trying to close the barn door before the horse bolts.

Since Apple uses FairPlay as the DRM for their video content, once it is broken, and bandwidth increases, then iTunes video content will be pirated. They needed FairPlay to convince the music studios to support the iTunes Music Store and they now need it to convince the movie studios to support it.

[Rodimus Prime]

Apple does not want to license FairPlay because if it gets out into the open, it will be reverse-engineered and hacked. Now for audio content that is no longer important because the music industry is moving to DRM-free music.

See to me that argrument to me is just a bunch of BS. I have not seen Microsoft DRM being hack yet. The way around it is the same way you get around apple's DRM. It is not hacking at all but instead changing the computer to output the video music to a file. Slow since it just caputuring the sound and the video off the screen but it gets around it.

I think the real reason is it means OMG apple has to give up some control and they are afraid of having to compete. Instead it choices to use its power to break others. This marketing method works find when one is small in a market but since apple is the major player it not a good system to use. But at the same time the problem is pretty clear.

I think apple way of doing this will come back to bit them. At some point the industry is going to one one standard DRM and the way apple is being they can kiss any hope of having part of it good bye.

[CWallace]

I think apple way of doing this will come back to bit them. At some point the industry is going to one one standard DRM and the way apple is being they can kiss any hope of having part of it good bye.

Apple will merely license it and continue to happily sell the hardware that DRM'd content will be used on.

[chris200x9]

heh can't wait untill someone comes up with a plugin for VLC to break ms DRM.....rent...transcode....keep it. That would be sweet

[Rodimus Prime]

Apple will merely license it and continue to happily sell the hardware that DRM'd content will be used on.

by the time apple figures that out I think they would of kissed all hope of it good bye. Also if I was the record or movie company I would have trouble trusting apple not to change the rules all of a sudden.

[Hankster]

Great news, now only if we could get streaming DVDs for new releases :)

[CWallace]

by the time apple figures that out I think they would of kissed all hope of it good bye. Also if I was the record or movie company I would have trouble trusting apple not to change the rules all of a sudden.

If there is one "universal" DRM standard, how can Apple change the rules? If they don't support that standard, then they have no legally licensed content to offer since no content provider would license Apple content to then offer in another DRM standard because it would not be a "universal" standard anymore.

And if content providers do not allow the most popular line of products - the iPod family - to play their content legally, then end-users will buy iPods to play their content illegally - by stripping the DRM off it or copying and distributing physical media without DRM.

"Download. Mix. Transfer." anyone? :eek:

[McGiord]

If www.abc.com is now streaming HD content for free (minor ads during the shows) why :apple: or netflix can' offer something like it?
________
Dream E (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_Dream_E)

[overcast]

If www.abc.com is now streaming HD content for free (minor ads during the shows) why :apple: or netflix can' offer something like it?
Because ABC is major network that produced the show and Netflix only makes revenue off of subscribers? :rolleyes:

[McGiord]

Because ABC is major network that produced the show and Netflix only makes revenue off of subscribers? :rolleyes:

I mean about the HD streaming, the quality of abc is pretty good, while the netflix is not, at least from my experience with it.
ABC content current material, most of netflix are old movies.
I wish for the freebies also, and before everyone start giving me lessons on how to run a business, it's just a wish, and I mean not all the movies/tv programs just some incentives/promotions to keep us happy.
________
mflb (http://mflbvaporizer.com)

[Matiek]

I would be in heaven if netflix and apple teamed up for streaming videos. I would buy an :apple:TV and a 46'' tv the same week.