iTunes Windows - First Impressions [Archive]

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MacRumors

Oct 17, 2003, 01:56 AM

The first reviews of iTunes for Windows have been filtering in since its release. OSNews provides (http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=4841) their first impressions of iTunes for Windows. Overall a favorable review, though the author has some significant issues with User Interface performance on her computer.

Other potential issues mentioned in discussion forums across the web include high memory and CPU utilization by the new Apple application. These complaints, however, are not universal -- with several users reporting excellent performance and unremarkable RAM utilization. Obviously, user experiences appear to be variable at this time.

Apple has already released a number of Knowledge Base articles to provide assistance/instruction for iTunes for Windows:

Music Does Not Play (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93400)
Music Sharing with Windows Internet Connection Firewall (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93396)
About Fast User Switching with Windows XP (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93395)
How to move MusicMatch songs into your iTunes Library (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93390)
Trouble burning a CD or DVD (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93379)
Unable to burn a CD (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93360)
Additional Troubleshooting for Burning Issues (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93286)
About Where iTunes Audio files are stored (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93358)

billyboy

Oct 17, 2003, 02:19 AM

These knowledge base pages are another excellent part of the plan to spread the Mac experience to Windows users. The instructions just read so straightforwardly.

Plus the iTunes web pages are a springboard into the rest of the top dog Apple site. This will show plenty of Windows users that their future software and hardware supplier has made it easy to find their way easily through massive amounts of information. Good one Mr Jobs

jaredbbauer

Oct 17, 2003, 02:19 AM

Well what can we say. It is to bad these people haven't switched yet... NOTHING can ever work as well on a wintel machine as it does on a mac. Sad but true.

ShadowHunter

Oct 17, 2003, 02:31 AM

I played with it all afternoon, and let me say that Apple is the bomb!! I can have a little of Apple to satisfy me until I can afford to switch soon! :D

In all seriousness, I had no trouble with it. I didn't try to burn a CD, but I'm pretty sure it recognized my burner and I wouldnt have any trouble. The user interface was clean, fast, and quite functional. I almost was an expert within 30 seconds of seeing the interface, talk about simplistic and natural. I LOVE how the library works! I can see my whole list, and quickly narrow down what I want: very cool! The way it integrates with playlists and such is just so natural, WMP is just too clumsy. Speaking of WMP player, it is just so bloated (v9)! With just my Outlook, a browser or 2, and my CRM, it can become very sluggish! Whereas iTunes was very efficient, heck I had several Crystal reports open, my CRM, Outlook, couple Word docs, a web browser, MSN/AIM, all without skipping a beat. I was quite pleased!

I browsed around the music store for a while, I thought it was pretty nifty. I would like to see more contemporary christian selections (I just didn't see many).

My one and only complaint was I couldn't figure out how to make the smaller window be "always-on-top". Anyone know how?

ahe

Oct 17, 2003, 02:39 AM

Hi,

iTunes seems like a great music tool to me, but there's a thing I don't like about it.

When I import songs into iTunes, they're moved from their original folder and renamed!
Yes, they're re-arranged in a logical form, but after all that time renaming and organizing my files, I don't like to have that effort wasted...
... Maybe I will just give up and adapt to that new "folder has the album's name" structure.

What I haven't tried yet is creating AACs from a CD, and I certainly want to use that feature, Nero was not very comfortable to use for that task.
Hehe I believe my iPod is as excited about that as I am... :)

Gyroscope

Oct 17, 2003, 02:43 AM

I already pointed out at OSNews forums that person who wrote review has some serious credibility issues when previewing/reviewing products. She came to conslusion that ITunes UI is so slow and unresponsive just because it didn't work well on her PC setup? After that there were around hundered responses from people who tested windows iTunes and found it to be snappy and responsive. I am not sure at this point if Apple has utilised openGL to draw some UI elements ,like in OSX version of iTunes. If this is the case indeed than reason her PC was slow is because of MatroxG400 graphic card. I know for sure (had one on my PC box years ago) it has crappy OpenGL drivers.Tried to play Medal of Honour on it and got 2-3 frames per sec or it wouldn't work at all .
Point here is that people really should take more care when writing previews/reviews and do their research and validate their facts propertly. It is just getting ridiculous lately with all this crappy internet journalism.

tazznb

Oct 17, 2003, 02:51 AM

Obviously if you have a build-it-yourself, or any low-end box that is sabotaged for price you'll have %*#)@*! performance.

Dell's low-end box comes to mind with it's integrated memory, and sweat-shops at the expense of children to undecut the competition's price.

Well, actually all of them are made that way I suppose. :(

arn

Oct 17, 2003, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by ahe

When I import songs into iTunes, they're moved from their original folder and renamed!

There's a preference to change this behavior.

Try unchecking "Advanced->Keep iTunes Music Folder organized"

arn

billyboy

Oct 17, 2003, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by Gyroscope
She came to conslusion that ITunes UI is so slow and unresponsive just because it didn't work well on her PC setup? After that there were around hundered responses from people who tested windows iTunes and found it to be snappy and responsive.
Point here is that people really should take more care when writing previews/reviews and do their research and validate their facts propertly. It is just getting ridiculous lately with all this crappy internet journalism.

Its good that a hundred people contradicted her in public. The problem is when some review gets published with no right of reply.

Reading the forums here and on Windows side, the vast vast majority are saying it works as it should. The few gripes I have read about iTunes reorganizing folders, or being a CPU hog or whatever else are thankfully being shot down by users who know how iTunes or Windows works. Hopefully these sort of "queries" will become public knowledge very soon and Windows centric journalists can just enjoy writing about a success. That´ll hurt.

F/reW/re

Oct 17, 2003, 02:58 AM

yepp, iTunes uses 40MB RAM, thats alot!

When i drag the iTunes window to the left so that the File-menu goes alittle out of the screen area and the click the File-menu the drop-down menu appears almost in the middle of the screeen. Wierd bug!
There's also the same problem as QuickTime has, when you press something very often a white little squere appears under the mouspointer.

Launchtime is also a little long!

ahe

Oct 17, 2003, 03:10 AM

Hey thank you arn,

I will give it a try as sson as I have the chance... I searched for that feature myself, but was in such a hurry I didn't even see it :)

... heheh that's what happens when you get to try a software you've been waiting for months but only have a few minutes to give it a shot.

Thanks again.

Mattnh

Oct 17, 2003, 03:59 AM

Finally iTunes for Windows.
And running great here.
No WMA-support though...

MikeH

Oct 17, 2003, 04:36 AM

I installed iTunes on my PC late last night and a quick play around with it. I have to say for the most part it's seems excellent and have come across no real problems, although I would probably agree it's more resource hungry than it needs to be, but as RAM is so cheap these days what's 40mb matter?

My only suprise was that the visualistions frame rate wouldn't get above 15fps. No big deal and it doesn't affect sound quality but I'd have thought a PC with 512mb of RAM and XP2400 processer and a GeForce 4200ti would easily do more (this isn't really a complaint - more of an observation).

Just waiting for the iTunes store* to be available in the UK now - although browsing around the US version it looks good and works well and the samples play almost immediatley - v. nice.

Porshuh944turbo

Oct 17, 2003, 04:47 AM

No WMA-support though...
Geez I hope not!!!!

Does it seem funny to anyone else how Apple is calling it "quit" instead of "exit" and I've only seen the term "Fast User Switching" on Panther. I don't think it is called that on WinXP, but could be wrong. Just a way to throw out Mac terms?

MasterMac

Oct 17, 2003, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by Porshuh944turbo
Geez I hope not!!!!

I really wonder why people don't want [X] support in iTunes... I personally would like to see iTunes have support for WMA, Real, Ogg, etc just so I don't have to either A) have other apps do it for me or B) waste my time trying to convert it to MP3 or whatever..

Porshuh944turbo

Oct 17, 2003, 04:52 AM

MikeH

Oct 17, 2003, 04:59 AM

Would Apple be aloud to include WMA support without having to pay for the privledge?

MasterMac

Oct 17, 2003, 05:00 AM

Originally posted by Porshuh944turbo
I think it's a matter of Apple just saying that WMA wasn't important enough to include as they don't see it as a serious audio format. :p

also, look at Windows Media Player! They don't even include support for creating MP3 files unless you buy an expansion for it! What a joke.. They are trying to push WMA so much, but I don't know anyone that uses it over MP3.. it's simply something that you have in case the MP3 you thought you downloaded was WMA...

I'm glad Apple is going MP3 and AAC. WMA is a step backwards IMO

The second paragraph illustrates exactly why iTunes needs at least WMA support ;). If you show this to a Windows user who is completely nieve (sp?) about differences between audio formats, and has all their music in WMA format since WMP doesn't allow importing as MP3 normally, would they want to use iTunes if it couldn't play all their music? I don't think so. Now I'm not saying that Apple has to add the option to convert to WMA or import as WMA...just the ability to play WMA.

Just today I advertised iTunes for Windows on another forum of mine and a lot of the people asked "Can it play WMA? Can it convert WMA to MP3 or other formats?" I had to say no to both, and in responce they said that they probably won't be using iTunes then. Yet another reason why the ability to at least play WMA files is needed.

Also, if iTunes included WMA support, then there would be less of a need to have WMP installed on one's computer, correct? ;)

Mattnh

Oct 17, 2003, 05:32 AM

Compromises are not wrong when it comes to helping people out. ;)
When people have a lot of WMA and check out iTunes it's not gonna work.
De-install and never try it again (Jet-audio! Winamp!).
I'm not that happy with the other players on the Windows-platform at all and listen my music on the G4 because of the ease of iTunes.
If you (Apple) really feel like opening eyes, work along with (at least play) the formats (WMA) they (Window-users) are used to use.
Play the WMA and sneak them into AAC or iTunes-MP3.
Now isn't that a nice strategy? ;)

MasterMac

Oct 17, 2003, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by Mattnh
Now isn't that a nice strategy? ;)

Why yes, yes it is :p

whooleytoo

Oct 17, 2003, 06:06 AM

Actually, I found iTunes PC a bit sluggish too. Then again, it's nice to use an app that's actually faster on the Mac!

I also noticed how cluttered iTMS seems at lower resolutions, I'm using 1024x768 on the PC, it looks soo much better at 1440x900 on the 17" iMac at home.

There's no Maximise button, which is a bit annoying, instead they've made the "Restore" button act a little like the Mac's Zoom button, but not quite.

It'll be interesting to see the reaction of PC users to Mac controls on a Windows app (e.g. the scrollbars). I always hate it when anyone puts Windows controls in a Mac app!

Also, I noticed if you shrink the window to it's smallest size (just the buttons only), it's very difficult to stretch it back out again to reveal the display, the cursor just doesn't 'catch' the edge.

Mike.

MattG

Oct 17, 2003, 06:09 AM

I've been running it since yesterday, and everything seems exactly the same as the Mac version. Downloading was flawless, playing was flawless, and I had no problems burning a CD.

Launch time is a little long, but big deal.

Jerry Spoon

Oct 17, 2003, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by jaredbbauer
Well what can we say. It is to bad these people haven't switched yet... NOTHING can ever work as well on a wintel machine as it does on a mac. Sad but true.

Maybe it should say this at the end of each Knowledge Base article.:D

markie

Oct 17, 2003, 06:30 AM

"Obviously if you have a build-it-yourself, or any low-end box that is sabotaged for price you'll have %*#)@*! performance."

Not so obviously for the build-it-yourself. There really aren't many good, well-built, Windows systems with good components. You can build by far the best and fastest Windows systems, AND get a better price (though rarely do you get a better price if you're using better components). Of course, the OS still is really cruddy.... But if you want a Linux system, of course then you have no software compatibility.

markie

Oct 17, 2003, 06:31 AM

Oh, and yeah, iTunes for Windows was slow for me at first (just the music store), but by nightfall it had improved dramatically. I think the server was taking a hard hit.

Bear

Oct 17, 2003, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Macrumors
...
Other potential issues mentioned in discussion forums across the web include high memory and CPU utilization by the new Apple application. These complaints, however, are not universal -- with several users reporting excellent performance and unremarkable RAM utilization. Obviously, user experiences appear to be variable at this time.
... Welcome to Windows.

eric67

Oct 17, 2003, 06:38 AM

I have downloaded it yesterday evening, installed it in few seconds on my PC, then imported my musicmatch music files (around 400 MP3) into iTunes in a matter of seconds (here talking about importing names and references, no physical location change of the music files). no information were lost during the transfer.
After playing By the way from the RHCP, I immediately noticed a big difference with the sound quality between iTunes and the other Pc apps I have been using (WinAmp, MusiMatch and realPlayer), I mean really a big difference, iTunes sounds just far away better, deeper sounds,.... so I though I was biased by my love for Apple, so I went to macbidouille.com forum (well I am French...) and realize that many other users also noticed a better sound quality with iTunes...so I went to PC web site (French) and from PC users same version, iTunes sounds better...
Now speaking RAM , CPU usage, reactivity...
it is very reactive, the CPU usage is really low (around 2% CPU usage every 10sec with a P4 2GHz FSB 533MHz), for the RAM I did not check, but I did not notice any serious effect on the overall PC reactivity... I have 512 MB RAM DDR 3200.
Now I have burn my first playlist at 24x on my LiteOn 32x using iTunes, done in few minutes, quality perfect....
After one hour of test, I have uninstall MusicMatch, WinAmp and RealPlayer....
Of course the only problem I have now, is that I feel really like getting a new mac now; my last mac died a year ago, and still want to wait G5 rev2 and money before to go...but really it is good to feel a bit of this magic GUI and easy of use from Apple on a PC... just feel like getting a G5 right now.....or an iPod ...actually it will be cheaper..

eric67

Oct 17, 2003, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by markie
Oh, and yeah, iTunes for Windows was slow for me at first (just the music store), but by nightfall it had improved dramatically. I think the server was taking a hard hit.

even I was in France and could not evaluate the iTMS, it is clear that the server in charge of the iTunes download was really loaded with requests, my download took quite a long time; whereas when updating QT fro example, I usually get the max of my 512kb ADSL line..

dage007

Oct 17, 2003, 06:50 AM

Been awaiting a long time to get Itunes for my PC. I've used it since day one on all my macs and I just love it. Never had a problem with it even using os X server. Installed it yesterday ASAP on my PC and the music has been playing all night without any flaws. I just minimize Itunes and I dont even know its there. No chugging on the computer what so ever. Great job apple.

Mattnh

Oct 17, 2003, 06:51 AM

After one hour of test, I have uninstall MusicMatch, WinAmp and RealPlayer....
Of course the only problem I have now, is that I feel really like getting a new mac now

That's what I mean, MasterMac. :)

I really would like Apple to get the iTunes-shop to work in Europe.
We have a firm in the Netherlands that's called 'FreeRecordShop', but that's a lie :)

artmc

Oct 17, 2003, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by Bear
Welcome to Windows.

There also appears to be some reported issues with iTunes for Windows and Norton Internet Security 2003 for Windows. Several users (myself included) are getting a message: Not enough memory. Now this is only happening when I try to access iTMS. So no buying audio till this is 'fixed' or a good workaround appears. Well I just have to use the Tibook for this ! :D
Closing Norton ISec 2003 fixes this, but of course this leaves your machine vulnerable.

iTunes works *GREAT* other than this. Not sluggish, and the radio stations seem great. It is a bit more responsive than my Tibook G4 667, but not a lot more responsive.

My desktop is an Athlon 1.2GHz, 320 Meg RAM, 400Gig HD space. :) (I need more RAM, I know !)

I haven't tried to burn a CD yet, probably try it tonight.

weave

Oct 17, 2003, 07:11 AM

Follow the link for the support note on fast user switching. Can't have multiple people with it open.

How will itunes on the Mac deal with this feature when that comes out in Panther.

I'd love to have my wife's copy and mine open a the same time so we can share playlists (from within computer and other computers in the house)

Jeff Harrell

Oct 17, 2003, 07:18 AM

Oats

Oct 17, 2003, 07:20 AM

I agree with the review at OS news. iTunes has some good things that work well, but the UI is very slow for me, frequently not responding for 10 seconds or more, sometimes to the point where I think the whole app has crashed. For example, if I minimize the window to the toolbar when it is in its smaller window size, it takes 10 seconds to refresh to the screen. Often the "metal" interface is not refreshed properly, and I see the standard windows theme beneath it. Wierd behavior, certainly not the best PC program I've ever used. Winamp has been the bomb since forever, it's been pulling off the non-standard windows GUI with style since Windows 95!!

Shadey

Oct 17, 2003, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by Porshuh944turbo
Geez I hope not!!!!

Does it seem funny to anyone else how Apple is calling it "quit" instead of "exit" and I've only seen the term "Fast User Switching" on Panther. I don't think it is called that on WinXP, but could be wrong. Just a way to throw out Mac terms?

It is called 'Fast User Switching' in WinXP, and they had it first. :D

artmc

Oct 17, 2003, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by eric67
....After one hour of test, I have uninstall MusicMatch, WinAmp and RealPlayer....

I really like iTunes, but Winamp has a visualization plugin that so far just dosen't have an equal.
Geiss (http://www.geisswerks.com/)

In particular Version 2 has a feature that is just amazing. It turns the visualization into your wallpaper !! Yeah it does
slow down the system a bit, but apps open overtop of it. Even with several 4+ apps running it was responsive enough to
use. Now this is a feature that I would *KILL* for in iTunes !!!!!!!!!

* art *

Shadey

Oct 17, 2003, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by artmc
I really like iTunes, but Winamp has a visualization plugin that so far just dosen't have an equal.
Geiss (http://www.geisswerks.com/)

In particular Version 2 has a feature that is just amazing. It turns the visualization into your wallpaper !! Yeah it does
slow down the system a bit, but apps open overtop of it. Even with several 4+ apps running it was responsive enough to
use. Now this is a feature that I would *KILL* for in iTunes !!!!!!!!!

* art *

My friend made that plug-in when he was in school here.

He now is being paid by Nullsoft ;)

Stella

Oct 17, 2003, 07:35 AM

How much memory do you have in your machine?

Also processor speed?

I've had absolutely no problems in running Itunes at work, 1.6Ghz, 512meg ram.

Haven't tried it at home on my 1gig athlon yet, shall try it tonight.

As far as I'm concerned, iTunes for Windows is excellent, first class piece of software. All as good as the mac version.

Originally posted by Oats
I agree with the review at OS news. iTunes has some good things that work well, but the UI is very slow for me, frequently not responding for 10 seconds or more, sometimes to the point where I think the whole app has crashed. For example, if I minimize the window to the toolbar when it is in its smaller window size, it takes 10 seconds to refresh to the screen. Often the "metal" interface is not refreshed properly, and I see the standard windows theme beneath it. Wierd behavior, certainly not the best PC program I've ever used. Winamp has been the bomb since forever, it's been pulling off the non-standard windows GUI with style since Windows 95!!

geerlingguy

Oct 17, 2003, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by ShadowHunter
I would like to see more contemporary christian selections (I just didn't see many).

Yeah, I wish they had some of that, too. I like most of the other music selection, especially classical, but Apple is still slow in attracting labels like Sparrow records, et all (which carry most Christian artists).

dage007

Oct 17, 2003, 07:37 AM

I cant agree more. Like I said not one problem so far with my machine. Not sure what types of machines people are running that are having performance problems, or maybe they just dont know how to properly maintain there systems. You never know. But I've tried it on 2 PC's now and not one slow down or notice of loss in performance.

NoVi

Oct 17, 2003, 07:38 AM

After some hick ups at installation (few error messages) I installed it on my Win2000 server and it runs very nicely.

So it's goodbye to good ol' WinAmp :)

I hope the shop will be coming round soon...

eric67

Oct 17, 2003, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by Oats
I agree with the review at OS news. iTunes has some good things that work well, but the UI is very slow for me, frequently not responding for 10 seconds or more, sometimes to the point where I think the whole app has crashed. For example, if I minimize the window to the toolbar when it is in its smaller window size, it takes 10 seconds to refresh to the screen. Often the "metal" interface is not refreshed properly, and I see the standard windows theme beneath it. Wierd behavior, certainly not the best PC program I've ever used. Winamp has been the bomb since forever, it's been pulling off the non-standard windows GUI with style since Windows 95!!

sorry guy but a few additional point on my current test.
the reactivity is definitely not due to Apple iTunes, but more with your config or other apps conflicts. I did not experienced it at all

another additional point in my test of iTunes vs Win MediaPlayer :
RAM usage :
some people claims 30-40MB of RAM for iTunes, well I am just testing here with WinMediaPlayer :
when starting playing the song on a CD, RAM usage = 30MB, then doan to 5MB if the WMP windiw is minimized, but back to 7-8MB of RAM if the window is active with some visual effect.
CPU usage
I have tested itunes already, and as I already reported before , iTunes use around 2% CPU of a P4 2GHz 533MHz in average (can be down to 0% for up to 10 secondes...)
now for WMP :
with WMP window displayed and visual effect = 10% to 25% CPU usage!!!, if minimized, usage between 5% and 15% with an average around 8-10%!!!

so in conclusion iTunes might use more RAM, but from my test it definitely use less CPU ressource than Windows MediaPlayer

and I still do not understand teh slow reactivity of some users....
config : P4 2GHz, 533MHz FSB, 512 MB RAM DDR

eric67

Oct 17, 2003, 07:40 AM

I will keep posting some new test this evening with MusicMatch

mproud

Oct 17, 2003, 07:41 AM

I am in Japan right now and miss my Mac :(

But I have iTunes! Yippee!

Suggestion:
I think they should consider taking away the graphical rendering resize and just make it outline resize like old OS 9 or 8.

In fact, I read a workaround not too long ago about a trick to get this to work in OS X. Anyway, I don't think PC users really care about real-time graphical window rendering during resize.

Question:
When starting up iTunes Music Store, it tells me that it's not in my country yet (to be expected) but mentions something with credit cards and billing address being in the same country...

...does this mean that, since I do have an American credit card, that I can purchase iTunes music, even while in Asia?! :D

Sailfish

Oct 17, 2003, 07:44 AM

All I have to say is:

http://www.wma-mp3.com/

screw Microsoft and welcome to the "bright side" PC people.

eric67

Oct 17, 2003, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by mproud
I am in Japan right now and miss my Mac :(

But I have iTunes! Yippee!

Suggestion:
I think they should consider taking away the graphical rendering resize and just make it outline resize like old OS 9 or 8.

In fact, I read a workaround not too long ago about a trick to get this to work in OS X. Anyway, I don't think PC users really care about real-time graphical window rendering during resize.

Question:
When starting up iTunes Music Store, it tells me that it's not in my country yet (to be expected) but mentions something with credit cards and billing address being in the same country...

...does this mean that, since I do have an American credit card, that I can purchase iTunes music, even while in Asia?! :D

Dear friend

go to www.hardmac.com (english version of the french web site www.macbidouille.com) and you will learn that indeed it was possible before (having an Americam credit card, but using it from outside US) to use iTMS outside US with a credit card edited in the US. many users reported that it was working in France, till recently ...apparently Apple has read the story and found a way to block this usage

billyboy

Oct 17, 2003, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by Mattnh
Compromises are not wrong when it comes to helping people out. ;)
When people have a lot of WMA and check out iTunes it's not gonna work.
De-install and never try it again (Jet-audio! Winamp!).

Alternatively the iTunes site displays a big box with this http://www.convert-mp3-to-wma.mp3-converter.org/ then instead of deinstalling iTunes the Windows user installs this wma to mp3 convertor - which is just one of loads from google, try out a few tunes and then decide if they want to dump iTunes.

Isnt that an equally helpful strategy? ;)

Edit, sorry sailfish never saw your post.

the_mole1314

Oct 17, 2003, 07:53 AM

iTunes on my PC at home works fine. It works beyond well and into the amazing catagory. I really love this App. Now I can ditch WinAmp for once and for all. Plus, I'm going to convince my parents to set up an allowance on the Music Store. ;)

dekator

Oct 17, 2003, 08:15 AM

Another toy for well-to-do (this time) Windows users. As a European, why should I care?

I'm sick and tired that 'available to all' means just the US.

Ah well, and downloading songs illegally is 'bad karma' ? Right Mr Guru Steve, and how are you in a position to say so. That's a little simplistic isn't it ? Well, anyway, I disagree mostly but then I'm not a member of the Steve jobs school of marketing (sorry, 'thought'). Yes, I'm also tired of religious terminology being trivialized for marketing ends.

'Illegal' downloads are the only option for most of us and I don't think it's a bad thing.
The only good thing for corporate America is to get as rich as possible. Well, it may surprise you to hear but I don't think that's good, indeed, I don't even think it's legitimate and unhealthy if one looks at the big picture and not just one Ego.
It's good karma to share what should be available to all. It's only bad if you're praying to the god of 'infinite accumulation of material wealth' but certainly not in any spiritual sense.

I have to admit though that signing up Indie-labels is a great thing. I'd gladly pay for those songs and I think it's good. Still, I can't and, seeing how Sherlock is still US only, I don't expect to be able to in the next couple o' years. But then, there will be alternatives.

I believe what we over here in Europe are hoping for is a good non-american OS some time, which is most dersirable, both politically and economically.

1macker1

Oct 17, 2003, 08:26 AM

WRONG WRONG WRONG. Most of the Dell machines uses the same parts as Mac machines, just look at the tech specs. It's not the OS, it's the crappy 3rd party programs (itunes) that people load onto the machines.
Originally posted by markie
"Obviously if you have a build-it-yourself, or any low-end box that is sabotaged for price you'll have %*#)@*! performance."

Not so obviously for the build-it-yourself. There really aren't many good, well-built, Windows systems with good components. You can build by far the best and fastest Windows systems, AND get a better price (though rarely do you get a better price if you're using better components). Of course, the OS still is really cruddy.... But if you want a Linux system, of course then you have no software compatibility.

Steamboatwillie

Oct 17, 2003, 08:28 AM

I installed iTunes for Windows on three different machines. The first install was on my Mac... Huh? Yes, I installed it on Virtual PC 6 running Windows 2000 Pro. I just couldn't wait until I got home (My computer at work is a G4) I was plesantly surprised how well it worked. Right away it saw my shared iTunes library on the Mac side. Performance was on par with all the other windows apps I run on VPC. When I got home I installed it on 2 machines. The first one is a PIII 800mHz with 512mb of pc133 Ram. This machine is not exactly a screamer. iTunes ran perfectly. Launching iTunes was a tad slow but no biggy at all. The second machine at home I installed it on is a Athlon XP 2.1gHz, 1gb DDR pc2700 ram, 80gb ATA100 8mb cache HDD. iTunes was scorching fast. Noticably faster than my dual 1.25 G4 at work. Everything works exactly the same. No details were comprimised. As a software engineer I am very impressed. iTunes for Windows is a huge success already as far as I am concerned. And remember this is the very first release for Windows. Pretty impressive that the bugs are few at this point.

weave

Oct 17, 2003, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by dekator
The only good thing for corporate America is to get as rich as possible.

4 out of 5 of the biggest record labels are foreign (to the US) owned.

Sabenth

Oct 17, 2003, 08:46 AM

while i am really glad that apple released iTunes for Windoz can they now sort out this US BASED CRAP AND GET IT GLOBAL BECAUSE I CAN USE MEDIA PLAYER FOR MUSIC AND THAT DOSE THE JOB JUST LIKE WINAMP I WANT A STORE TO SHOP IN WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO HMV OR ANY OTHER LARGE STORE THAT OVER CHARGES FOR ITS CDS ...

and now that iTunes is here are there plans for iPhoto Movie DVD iCal etc etc

Hope so then i can get rid of windows software when iam working

NoVi

Oct 17, 2003, 08:50 AM

http://a896.g.akamai.net/7/896/51/d33c54a39e3763/www.apple.com/home/images/2003/10/itunesscreen10162003.jpg

www.apple.com

the_mole1314

Oct 17, 2003, 08:53 AM

Kid Red

Oct 17, 2003, 08:58 AM

Looks funny with that title bar. I wish they would've had a giant Apple logo on there with a troll leaning over it sticking his tongue out or something.

mkaake

Oct 17, 2003, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by dekator
<snip>
'Illegal' downloads are the only option for most of us and I don't think it's a bad thing. <snip>

you're kidding right??

only option? how about buy the cd to begin with.
not a bad thing? how do you justify that?

and as for non-us, yeah, that kinda sucks, but there's reasons for it. we don't know all of them. we can speculate though, like if you look at macbytes just a day or two ago, microsoft got sued for doing music outside the us, because of a patent violation.

matt

macmax

Oct 17, 2003, 09:07 AM

as you know i have both a beautiful godlike Mac and a pchit.

well, itunes really works great on the pchit.

At last i have something that i like on her, heheheheh

SiliconAddict

Oct 17, 2003, 09:32 AM

See post with graphic attachment (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=536931#post536931)

I'm not going to reinvent the wheel and repost what I just posted in the previous thread. Suffice it to say I do believe there are some issues with the UI and CPU utilization.

1. shrinking expanding the window eats 80%-100% CPU. Just "grabbing" the corner and holding it there eats 80%-100% and that's without moving anything! :eek:

2. Initial RAM usage for itunes.exe hovers around 30MB. If you minimize the application and then restore it the size shrinks to 6-8MB in size.

I believe both of these problems can be traced back to however Apple implemented the UI in the iTfW app. I've confirmed this behavior on 4 systems. Three running 2K and 1 running (God help me) XP. The thing is that only people really paying attention to their system performance is going to notice these problems. iTunes works perfectly fine as is. With most PC's showing up with 512MB of RAM and CPU's well into the 2+ GHZ range this shouldn't be to much of an issue. Ick that’s a bad notion. The “We don’t need to worry about tight code because the system can handle it.” I expect this out of Microsoft not Apple :( I hope they fix this.

I guess I am going to reinvent the wheel ;)

areyouwishing

Oct 17, 2003, 09:34 AM

I have a p3 1.0ghz w/ 1GB of RAM and a 64mb ATI Video Card.

Itunes is the worst running app I have ever had on my computer...without question.

eric67

Oct 17, 2003, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by the_mole1314
Look at even Bill Gates, he has donated hundreds of millions of dollars to charity.

I am pretty sure he did that not based on any philanthropic behavior... more image/marketing point of view.... probably for his soul, maybe he can convince himself that he is the good guy and those who disagree with him are the bad guys... the typical simplistic way of Mr Bush...(I say Mr Bush and Co, and not American in general... please note the difference... I really think that a majority of the American are suffering of his general behavior, but hey, in US you can be elected without having the majority of the American votes...)
I am happy that iTunes PC is so good, and I am really missing a Europe version, against what has been mentioned before, no iTMS in Europe has nothing to do with Apple, so stop blaming Steve, it has to go with Record Labels policies... NOW the big stupid thing is that , as mentioned before, 4 of the five larger Regard Labels are NOT US based (example Universal music is french (aka Vivendi Universal but remains under Universal brand name for marketing reason in the US)) and this does not yield to a pay-to-download system in Europe….
So, yes it is bad that the system is limited to the US for iTMS; but no it is not only US fault , definitely not.

gwangung

Oct 17, 2003, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by eric67
I am pretty sure he did that not based on any philanthropic behavior... more image/marketing point of view....

Um, no. Gates' philanthropic behavior is..well, philanthropic. By itself, his world health giving shows that [and we're talking billions of dollars here.....].

Take a look at the distribution of his gifts and grants...might be surprised by where they go...and how many of them are out there.

iPC

Oct 17, 2003, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by geerlingguy
Yeah, I wish they had some of that, too. I like most of the other music selection, especially classical, but Apple is still slow in attracting labels like Sparrow records, et all (which carry most Christian artists).
Yeah, missing good heavy metal stuff too. Seems to be music that SJ likes, and the current Top 40 junk. :(

Originally posted by eric67
I am pretty sure he did that not based on any philanthropic behavior... more image/marketing point of view.... probably for his soul, maybe he can convince himself that he is the good guy and those who disagree with him are the bad guys... the typical simplistic way of Mr Bush...(I say Mr Bush and Co, and not American in general... please note the difference... I really think that a majority of the American are suffering of his general behavior, but hey, in US you can be elected without having the majority of the American votes...)
I am happy that iTunes PC is so good, and I am really missing a Europe version, against what has been mentioned before, no iTMS in Europe has nothing to do with Apple, so stop blaming Steve, it has to go with Record Labels policies... NOW the big stupid thing is that , as mentioned before, 4 of the five larger Regard Labels are NOT US based (example Universal music is french (aka Vivendi Universal but remains under Universal brand name for marketing reason in the US)) and this does not yield to a pay-to-download system in Europe….
So, yes it is bad that the system is limited to the US for iTMS; but no it is not only US fault , definitely not.
You do know Bill is married to a good woman, right? His philanthropic activites jumped massively after he got married. And his donations are in the billions now. http://gatesfoundation.org/default.htm Most are to places outside of the USA. As to politicians; they are all scum, regardless of nationality. ;) The EU is to blame for the lack of iTMS for Europe. Got a nice mix of EU laws, country specific laws, and of course generic international trade laws.

guiverunit

Oct 17, 2003, 10:03 AM

Has anyone else had any trouble with the quicktime plugin in the music store?
I tried a few different videos (i.e. the eagles/REM) but the play button doesn't change to pause and the progress ball doesn't move.
I also tried Mozilla Firebird and IE and they both worked fine

any ideas?

sixthring

Oct 17, 2003, 10:35 AM

I am using iTunes on a Pentium 3 550MHz with 192MB RAM. It is currently playing music shared from my Mac (approximately 300 Songs). It is shuffling the playlist. It is averaging 10% CPU usage and using 26MB RAM while the Main Large window is active. It resizes great and very responsive. Never skips even when using multiple other apps.

a_kim

Oct 17, 2003, 10:43 AM

I installed iTunes on my work PC yesterday, and I've been streaming music from my powerbook and from a few other Macs on my office subnet. It works great!

But has anybody noticed that when you turn Sound Enhancer on, it kind of dampens the vocals of a lot of songs? The higher the amount of enhancement, the less vocals you hear. This doesn't happen on my Mac. I've turned Sound Enhancer off because I can't hear the vocals.

Let me know if you experience the same thing.

-Alex

lolo

Oct 17, 2003, 10:53 AM

eric67,

If you'd like me to send you an iTunes gift certificate, go there:

http://forum.macbidouille.com/index.php?showtopic=47895

- lolo

Oats

Oct 17, 2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Stella
How much memory do you have in your machine?

Also processor speed?

I've had absolutely no problems in running Itunes at work, 1.6Ghz, 512meg ram.

Haven't tried it at home on my 1gig athlon yet, shall try it tonight.

As far as I'm concerned, iTunes for Windows is excellent, first class piece of software. All as good as the mac version.

My problems are on a 1GHz PIII with 512 ram. iTunes is sluggish even when it is the only app running. Other apps are RARELY as sluggish as iTunes is unless I am doing some serious computing or disk operations.

centauratlas

Oct 17, 2003, 10:58 AM

I've been playing with iTunes in Virtual PC and it looks great. The design just looks so much less cluttered than the rest of Windows.

Steamboatwillie

Oct 17, 2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Oats
My problems are on a 1GHz PIII with 512 ram. iTunes is sluggish even when it is the only app running. Other apps are RARELY as sluggish as iTunes is unless I am doing some serious computing or disk operations.

iTunes on my PIII 800mHz with 512mb pc133 ram runs very nice (Win2k Server) I wonder what the deal is?

artmc

Oct 17, 2003, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Shadey
My friend made that plug-in when he was in school here.

He now is being paid by Nullsoft ;)

Geiss is a damn good plugin. The ver2 option to make the visualization the wallpaper was just amazing. I was really impressed with this. Plus there is always Drempel (aka the vominator :D )

No if he'll just make an iTunes version (Wintel & OSX).

* art *

MorganX

Oct 17, 2003, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by MasterMac
I really wonder why people don't want [X] support in iTunes... I personally would like to see iTunes have support for WMA, Real, Ogg, etc just so I don't have to either A) have other apps do it for me or B) waste my time trying to convert it to MP3 or whatever..

The iRiver HP120 (http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/iHP-120.asp) is one reason why. I suppose I understand why Apple doesn't want to support WMA. Not just from a music store perspective, but iTunes is the best Jukebox/Music Library Management/Audio CD Burning/Music ARchiving software/interface available.

By allowing it to work with WMA, iTunes would benefit all portable audio hardware and would not be a major marketing item for the iPod. If the HP120 could manage it's music with free iTunes, it would give iPod sales to PC owners a run for it's money which it may do anyway.

To be honest, if not for iTunes Windows, I'd probably switch. I planned on getting and HP120 for Christmas, but iTunes+iPod is just too good. I have to be loyal even in the absence of WMA playback.

As a matter of fact, if we can get 192k AAC, I think I'll support it in the face of WMA momentum. Pioneers new optical streaming receiver supports WMA 9 and is advertised as such, but the good news for Apple, in the small print it supports AAC streaming. Bad news, it's in small print. Course the think costs $4k and is only in Japan right now, but it is the wave of the future.

On topic, iTunes performs great, get 34+ frames per second, and it does use too much memory. However, I'll gladly trade 30MB Ram, for the lightning fast file management of a 1000+ library. WMP and Explorer can't handle it that well. I have to wait days to open My Music in Explorer or WMP.

xtekdiver

Oct 17, 2003, 11:33 AM

Sounds strangly familiar. Why is it Windows users have to have a library of knowledge base articles to help use anything? Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that they are getting the chance to use a great Apple app, but I really feel sorry for those poor souls that have to suffer with that OS. Maybe iTunes will help generate more interest in OS X from the Wintel crowd. They just don't know what they are missing.

mclosers

Oct 17, 2003, 11:35 AM

If someone in say canada/Europe wanted to use the iTunes Music store could they use gift certificates? say they send money via pay pal to a US citizen and that person sent them a gift certificate. Could they use it? I don't want to abuse the GC program because I think it's very useful but I think they could be a way to buy music in "foreign Lands"

GulGnu

Oct 17, 2003, 11:54 AM

"'Illegal' downloads are the only option for most of us and I don't think it's a bad thing.
The only good thing for corporate America is to get as rich as possible. Well, it may surprise you to hear but I don't think that's good, indeed, I don't even think it's legitimate and unhealthy if one looks at the big picture and not just one Ego."

Isn't it amazing how much moralistic drivel some people are able to conjure up to justify their own greed? Do I download myself? Hell yes, and I do it because it's:

a) Cheap b) Convinient and c) I'm not likely to get caught.

If you want to convince us that you download in order to fight "Da Man", well heh...

Marlon_JBT

Oct 17, 2003, 11:56 AM

iTunes works perfectly on my family's Windows XP machine. CD Burning works, music sharing (streaming) works over my network, it installed correctly, but kept nagging me to restart.

The XP machine is a PIII 533MHz, with 192MB of RAM, 11MB is shared with video. It takes a long time to start up, but it works perfectly.

The scroll bars are tradition al windows style though, but looks just like the Aqua interface.

GulGnu

Oct 17, 2003, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by xtekdiver
Sounds strangly familiar. Why is it Windows users have to have a library of knowledge base articles to help use anything? Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that they are getting the chance to use a great Apple app, but I really feel sorry for those poor souls that have to suffer with that OS. Maybe iTunes will help generate more interest in OS X from the Wintel crowd. They just don't know what they are missing.

There are knowledge base articles available for the Mac too. =P I know, I used em, and like most of apple's stuff, they are good - with videos and everything =)

VicMacs

Oct 17, 2003, 12:06 PM

don't wait out to buy a mac! now is a great time to get out of the winblows world!

i hope itunes finnally convinces all that a computer shouldnt be hard to use

eric67

Oct 17, 2003, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by iPC
The EU is to blame for the lack of iTMS for Europe. Got a nice mix of EU laws, country specific laws, and of course generic international trade laws.

yep, you should carefully read what I have written at the end of my post, I basically agree with you regarding the lack of iTMS in Europe being Europe's fault... different countries with different regulations...that's where is the problem

JoeRadar

Oct 17, 2003, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by F/reW/re
yepp, iTunes uses 40MB RAM, thats alot!
I wonder if iTunes for Windows also includes a lot of Cocoa (WebKit?) and Quartz code?

Once upon a time developers could bring their apps to Windows because NeXT had ported the foundations (DPS and OpenStep) to it. I wonder if Apple followed a similar strategy for iTunes.

I also remember hearing how a lot of the Mac toolkit was ported to x86 to help bring Quicktime to Windows.

Probably just a conspiracy theory.

SeaFox

Oct 17, 2003, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by arn
There's a preference to change this behavior.

Try unchecking "Advanced->Keep iTunes Music Folder organized"

arn

Far easier thing: when iTunes asks if you want to import your songs into its library, say "no".

I find it a little annoying I now have two separate music libraries with iTunes' library within a library. I suppose I could just redefine the iTunes music folder as My "My Music" folder. But I'd like to keep purchased music separate from the other tracks, and I suppose keeping AAC and MP3 separate is good, but I haven't decided if I'll start ripping to AAC or keep using mp3.

Does anyone know where you submit bug reports? I have one that's a real problem for me.

SeaFox

Oct 17, 2003, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by gwangung
Um, no. Gates' philanthropic behavior is..well, philanthropic. By itself, his world health giving shows that [and we're talking billions of dollars here.....].

Take a look at the distribution of his gifts and grants...might be surprised by where they go...and how many of them are out there.

Actually, the large donations Bill Gates makes now are a recent development. For many years he donated only about $500,000 to charities (and this was a guy worth $38 billion). But people started to notice this and complain in the medis whever he did one of his big-show press events where he donated twenty-five or fifty grand to something.

MasterMac

Oct 17, 2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by MorganX
The iRiver HP120 (http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/iHP-120.asp) is one reason why. I suppose I understand why Apple doesn't want to support WMA. Not just from a music store perspective, but iTunes is the best Jukebox/Music Library Management/Audio CD Burning/Music ARchiving software/interface available.

By allowing it to work with WMA, iTunes would benefit all portable audio hardware and would not be a major marketing item for the iPod. If the HP120 could manage it's music with free iTunes, it would give iPod sales to PC owners a run for it's money which it may do anyway.

To be honest, if not for iTunes Windows, I'd probably switch. I planned on getting and HP120 for Christmas, but iTunes+iPod is just too good. I have to be loyal even in the absence of WMA playback.

As a matter of fact, if we can get 192k AAC, I think I'll support it in the face of WMA momentum. Pioneers new optical streaming receiver supports WMA 9 and is advertised as such, but the good news for Apple, in the small print it supports AAC streaming. Bad news, it's in small print. Course the think costs $4k and is only in Japan right now, but it is the wave of the future.

If not the ability to play WMA's, then at least give it the built in ability to convert to MP3 or AAC then ;)

Digidesign

Oct 17, 2003, 12:47 PM

It's strange. I cannot for the life of me access the iTunes Store.

It keeps telling me that I do not have enough memory, and that the Music Store has an error, please check back later.

My PC specs are ok, so I don't think it's my PC? Any ideas?

specs:
---
P4 2.4Ghz 800MHz FSB
1GB DDR RAM
WinXP
????

tutubibi

Oct 17, 2003, 01:14 PM

I installed iTunes on Athlon 600MHz, 384 MB Win2000 SP3.

Installation went without glitch.
Performance is acceptable, browsing and playing is fast.
GUI is great looking but responsivnes (resizing is very slow) is not great. The same problem is mentioned in OSNews review. My video card is ATI AIW 32 MB VRAM.

I found one problem so far. My CD burner refused to recognize any UDF CD-RW disks after iTunes installation. After some investigation, I tracked problem down to conflict between GEAR libraries that (I assume) iTunes installed and uses to access CDs and Nero InCD (packet writing utility). Stoping GEAR's gearrec service and rebooting solved the problem.
I will probably submit this issue to Apple so hopefully they will come out with some way of having GEAR and Nero coexist. Even without GEAR, iTunes works fine (gives message at statup that CD drivers are not enabled).

Another anoyance is automatic startup of iPodService. Why have this started for people without iPod or those who do not intend to use Windows/iPod?

trose

Oct 17, 2003, 01:27 PM

I just briefly played with it for 10 mins at work yesterday.

Seemed very nice, interface was not butchered to be Windows-like.

Only thing I found akward was the rendering/resizing was much slower on an Athlon 2100+ than my Dual 867 G4.

On a positive note- All the Windows users I have talked to have been completely won over! One guy said he wen't from being rather resentfull of the service, to buying $100 in music that night! Even those who were advocating hate for purchasing music just yesterday while I was explaining iTunes to them!

Looking VERY VERY good on that front. Glad to see PC users accepting iTunes as a great app and bypassing their Anti-Apple attitudes.

SeaFox

Oct 17, 2003, 01:34 PM

I miss not being able to resize from any window edge like most Windows apps. And I have trouble resizing the small-size player from the ultra-compact view to the compact with display view.

It just doesn't move unless I sit with the mouse button held down on the drag widget for a few seconds before I start dragging.

On the "oh, cool!" side I discovered by accident that when the player is in compact size and the window is still active the scroll wheel on my mouse acts as a volume dial. Very handy. And one thing I couldn't do on the Mac without buying a third party mouse.

SiliconAddict

Oct 17, 2003, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by VicMacs
don't wait out to buy a mac! now is a great time to get out of the winblows world!

i hope itunes finnally convinces all that a computer shouldnt be hard to use

People like you guys are the reason there aren't more switchers. :mad: The sanctimonious crap that pours forth from some, repeat some, Mac users drivers people away simply because they don't want to be associated with the "If it ain't Mac its crap" crowd. Whenever I talk to people and tell them that I'm interested in getting a Apple PowerBook they roll their eyes. I almost always have to append. "Trust me I'm not a fanatic" This is how Mac users are seen and while I’ve been highly impressed with the even handedness of the users on MacRumors every so often this kinda crap rears its ugly head. Does it happen in the Windows world as well? DUH. And I slap people down for doing it there too.

Look people. Windows 9x sucked collimating in windows ME that blows and sucks at the same time creating this weird noise that sounds like Gates getting an enema. And you thought that was your CD drive going bad! ;) I’ve actually dreamt that I broke a windows ME CD and had gone on a wild postal rampage at MS slashing the throats of the programmers of ME. (Long story involving ME at our office.) Suffice it to say I would never do that but it was one of the more satisfying dreams I’ve ever had.
Windows NT, 2K, and XP are stable once you’ve tweak the OS. 5 systems in my PC world:
1 server running 2K Adv server, Its NEVER crashed.
2 laptops running 2K and XP, Neither have ever crashed.
2 desktops (one work) one crashed but that was due to me dinking with the motherboard's speaker causing it to draw more power then the mobo could handle. :o The other running 2K and Linux has NEVER crashed.
Get over it and get over yourselves. Like it or not Windows is a legit platform now. The slogan for Windows 2000 and XP should be

“It just works*”

*After putting about 2 hours of tweaking into it.

Security is another matter. Patches are another matter. Adding a simple firewall, using NAV, using Mozilla Firebird, and using something other then MS Lookout takes care of 90% of these problems. Honestly I fear the day that someone decides that the Mac would be a juicy target for a virus and spreads it via e-mail. A virus is nothing more then a program. If one clicks on something and runs it, it doesn't matter if you are in Windows or on a Mac. A virus will run. And the number of overconfident Mac users out there. *shakes head* Could be bad.
For those this does not apply to *bows* Forgive the rant. It wasn't meant for you. This kinda immature crap just bugs me. I’ve dealt with this crap since day one on the net. N64 vs. PS vs. Dreamcast. Palm vs. Pocket PC. in each case it gets old FAST.

SiliconAddict

Oct 17, 2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by trose
On a positive note- All the Windows users I have talked to have been completely won over! One guy said he wen't from being rather resentfull of the service, to buying $100 in music that night! Even those who were advocating hate for purchasing music just yesterday while I was explaining iTunes to them!

I'm sitting at $47 so far since last afternoon and eyeing several albums. Its a very addictive service.

PS- I’ve been handing mini CD’s with the software out to the users of the office. I’m at 56 to far. :D

trose

Oct 17, 2003, 02:51 PM

w00t the same guy who was anti-payfordownload and spent $100 just ran to the store and bought an iPod on his lunch break!

Go Apple!

gwangung

Oct 17, 2003, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by SeaFox
Actually, the large donations Bill Gates makes now are a recent development. For many years he donated only about $500,000 to charities (and this was a guy worth $38 billion). But people started to notice this and complain in the medis whever he did one of his big-show press events where he donated twenty-five or fifty grand to something.

Well, if you mean since he got married (back in the early 90s). He gave $10M or so to the University of Washington in 1990 or 1991....

But it's really a myth that he only gave when people complained; in the 1980s, he was giving $50K and $100K...you gotta remember that this was pre-stock run up.

MorganX

Oct 17, 2003, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by trose

On a positive note- All the Windows users I have talked to have been completely won over! One guy said he wen't from being rather resentfull of the service, to buying $100 in music that night! Even those who were advocating hate for purchasing music just yesterday while I was explaining iTunes to them!

Out of curiosity, is he an iPod owner or purchasing for pc playback and cd burning?

a_kim

Oct 17, 2003, 03:17 PM

I posted earlier, but it's buried by now.

Has anybody noticed any sound differences between playing their files on their mac and on their PC? I'm streaming songs from my mac laptop to my work PC, and it sounds... not as good. I'm using the same speakers that I used to hook up to my powerbook.

Most notably, when I turn on sound enhancer, the vocals almost disappear. This doesn't happen on my powerbook.

Anyone confirm or deny this behavior on their PC? Maybe it's just my setup?

MorganX

Oct 17, 2003, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by SeaFox
Actually, the large donations Bill Gates makes now are a recent development. For many years he donated only about $500,000 to charities (and this was a guy worth $38 billion). But people started to notice this and complain in the medis whever he did one of his big-show press events where he donated twenty-five or fifty grand to something.

Does it matter when it started? It accelerated when he got married and had a kid.

How much is Jobs and the Apple board and shareholders giving away? Or do you only hold the "richest" individual you can identify to a high standard of philanthropy.

The fact that they are still "filthy rich" means no rich people are giving as much as they could. We would do well to get them all to give as much as Gates has.

Muigleb

Oct 17, 2003, 03:33 PM

as a windows user i think itunes works great. on hindsite i might have turned off the option for itunes to reoranize my music before i added it but i can get over that. the big issue i had was that it took 1.5 hrs to add all my song into the play list only to crash when it got to some old .mpu files i had in my folder, but after waiting another 1.5 hrs i spend the rest of the night playing with it and it works just like that mac version as far as i can see.

can wait for iphoto to come to pc since i dont want to give up all my hardware.

MasterMac

Oct 17, 2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Muigleb
can wait for iphoto to come to pc since i dont want to give up all my hardware.

I don't think iPhoto (or any other iApps) will be going to Windows :rolleyes: sorry :p

abdul

Oct 17, 2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by artmc
There also appears to be some reported issues with iTunes for Windows and Norton Internet Security 2003 for Windows. Several users (myself included) are getting a message: Not enough memory. Now this is only happening when I try to access iTMS. So no buying audio till this is 'fixed' or a good workaround appears. Well I just have to use the Tibook for this ! :D
Closing Norton ISec 2003 fixes this, but of course this leaves your machine vulnerable.

iTunes works *GREAT* other than this. Not sluggish, and the radio stations seem great. It is a bit more responsive than my Tibook G4 667, but not a lot more responsive.

My desktop is an Athlon 1.2GHz, 320 Meg RAM, 400Gig HD space. :) (I need more RAM, I know !)

I haven't tried to burn a CD yet, probably try it tonight.

dont mean to be funny but that could easily be a virus. i know people who work for isps and they had this virus a month or two ago

a_kim

Oct 17, 2003, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by a_kim
I posted earlier, but it's buried by now.

Has anybody noticed any sound differences between playing their files on their mac and on their PC? I'm streaming songs from my mac laptop to my work PC, and it sounds... not as good. I'm using the same speakers that I used to hook up to my powerbook.

Most notably, when I turn on sound enhancer, the vocals almost disappear. This doesn't happen on my powerbook.

Anyone confirm or deny this behavior on their PC? Maybe it's just my setup?

Heh. I'm answering my own question just in case somebody had the same problem.

In Windows, you have to go to the control panel for Quicktime and change the Sound Out setting. Mine was set at some funky settings, but I changed them, and now everything sounds fine. :)

1macker1

Oct 17, 2003, 04:00 PM

I agree,and would like to know how much is Jobs giving?
Originally posted by MorganX
Does it matter when it started? It accelerated when he got married and had a kid.

How much is Jobs and the Apple board and shareholders giving away? Or do you only hold the "richest" individual you can identify to a high standard of philanthropy.

The fact that they are still "filthy rich" means no rich people are giving as much as they could. We would do well to get them all to give as much as Gates has.

waynerj

Oct 17, 2003, 04:03 PM

One feature of MusicMatch that I liked that seems to be missing from iTunes for Windows is the ability to set it to start playing a pre-selected playlist at a certain time so it can be used as a customized alarm to wake up with in the morning. I wonder if anyone has come up with a way to make this work...

Jookbox

Oct 17, 2003, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by jaredbbauer
Well what can we say. It is to bad these people haven't switched yet... NOTHING can ever work as well on a wintel machine as it does on a mac. Sad but true.

could you possibly make yourself sound any more retarded?

Steamboatwillie

Oct 17, 2003, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by waynerj
One feature of MusicMatch that I liked that seems to be missing from iTunes for Windows is the ability to set it to start playing a pre-selected playlist at a certain time so it can be used as a customized alarm to wake up with in the morning. I wonder if anyone has come up with a way to make this work...

On the Mac set up a cron job to fire off an AppleScript that starts playing a specified song in iTunes.

On Windows you could do the same with a batch file scheduled form the AT command or the built in (GUI) job scheduler.

It's not a pre-canned solution but it could work if it is real important to you.

trose

Oct 17, 2003, 04:49 PM

Incase it was burried to fast, and in response to a question I got-

He was using it atfirst for just PC playback etc, but he loved it so much he wen't out and bought an iPod on his lunch break!

Now thats the kind of stuff Apple want's with this store.

I noticed one annoying as hell Window "feature". When trying to import some of my songs from CD... Windows would not take my Moonlight Sonata's, because Moonlight had " " around it. You cant use " in a Windows file name apparently :\

I hope the music store is "fixed" so that none of the track names have " in them!!

NoVi

Oct 17, 2003, 05:40 PM

as I tried to drag ca. 800 selected mp3's from a window to the library, had to restart the machine...

PIII 500Mhz, 300Mb mem, W2K

MorganX

Oct 17, 2003, 07:23 PM

What's with Apple and non-support of CD-Text. They brought this omission which is the only glaring flaw I can find, over from the Mac version.

Sabenth

Oct 17, 2003, 07:59 PM

I posted some time ago on page 6 and got to applogies for my comments regarding the US based stuff after looking into my former state the EU i have found a few legal issues regarding music and download matrial yes it seems that the US will always be first inline to gain anything thats the way of unkie sam what we have here though is the toal lack of respect for the Law {prodigy there law} why is it that we can access the iTunes Store yet we can not buy from it now if anyone with half a brain could work out that credit cards are used all over the world when yo go over seas i had my folks over last year from the uk i live in melbourne australia (GO MAGIES) and they were using there credit card for just about everything now why cant we use credit cards get billed and have it done becaue this Is really anoying i cant be bothered to wait for local stores to open there going to be ages before they get round to this part of the world.

I dont know if anyone else has mentioned this yet havent seen it mind you i am a little side tracked at the moment over people making points about cpu usage and if i hold the conner and drag it shoots to 100%. for an application that is designed for A Mac and now freshily ported makes a change . i say they have done a bloody great job with it no issues here only thing that dose puzzle me is when will we be getting the whole iLife Pack take it that we wont because well why would you buy a Mac if all its good stuff worked on pccceeee

________________

all in all i find iTunes Windozz to be great i can have aac files now and not worrie about not been able to use them on pc or Mac the sound issue can be related to some sound card drivers as well i think .. not that i have had any issues then again i un tick every god dam box first then tick to see what happens.

Respect must go out to The Team behind iTunes for both Mac and Windozz

Deffently buying a iPod Now

___

on the pod side of things if and when i get a new Mac because i have a g3 400 iMac no usb2 or firewire on it but there is on my pc can the ipod swap between the 2 machines or is there going to be issues

thats my lot

iMeowbot

Oct 17, 2003, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Steamboatwillie
On the Mac set up a cron job to fire off an AppleScript that starts playing a specified song in iTunes.

iCal is great for this, appointment alarms can be set to open any document.

trose

Oct 17, 2003, 10:25 PM

Wow didn't know iCal could do that. I would like that, since I leave my comp on all night, and already have a script to play my top 15 songs.

I have a question though- Can Applescript launch if your computer is set to need a password on screensaver prompt?

See, every 5 mins(annoying sister protection) my comp goes into Screensaver, and I need to enter a password to get back in. I am betting this would wreck the process...

iMeowbot

Oct 17, 2003, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by trose
Wow didn't know iCal could do that. I would like that, since I leave my comp on all night, and already have a script to play my top 15 songs.

It may have been new with 1.5.1.

I have a question though- Can Applescript launch if your computer is set to need a password on screensaver prompt?

iTunes is able to launch from iCal with passworded Screen Effects. It plays the song I select and then automagically walks through the library in whatever sort order I used last.

I just tried setting an event to open a handy Applescript that starts by activating the Finder, and all I got from the screen saver was a password prompt. :( You might want to play with it, seeing if iTunes can get away with it, maybe if you leave it running and can avoid an activate?

Petroman

Oct 17, 2003, 11:50 PM

Hey, I have recently downloaded iTunes for Windows and I have noticed that when I connected my IPOD next to a third of my music had little exclamation points next to them and I am unable to play them. Has anyone else had this problem?? and if so any ideas on how to fix this?? Thanks alot

ACTUALLY..I thought I fixed it but IT STILL DOESENT WORK :(

tychay

Oct 18, 2003, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by Petroman
Hey, I have recently downloaded iTunes for Windows and I have noticed that when I connected my IPOD next to a third of my music had little exclamation points next to them and I am unable to play them. Has anyone else had this problem?? and if so any ideas on how to fix this??

I'll start with this because it was the last post I read. The "!" means that the song wasn't found on your hard drive--this is not an iPod specific thing since if you tried to play back the song the same thing would have happened.

What is probably going on is that you either moved the files (you aren't having iTunes "organizing" you music) or you've messed with iTunes folder structure unmounted the drive where it originally found the files (happens in the case both "organizing" and not). On the Mac version (hasn't happened to me in Windows), you can double click the song and you are offered a chance to "find" the music on your hard drive. But restoring such aliases borders on extreme tedium--in iTunes 2 there used to be an applescript that would help you relink your music which is the last time such a serious issue happenned to me.

When you think of the logic behind the magic, it is sort of obvious and simple that this happens. But it doesn't seem that way when you're using it, I know.

In other news, read all the posts here and I think a few major points and a lot of minor ones.

Eugenia and OSNews
Eugenia isn't anti-Mac, she's anti-everything. If you read OSNews often enough she has a very strong "didn't work for me/didn't behave exactly the way I wanted therefore I don't like it" bias. She doesn't want to test iTunes on more than one computer; she expects it to work on a dual celeron with a Matrox card on it: those are her problems and its her site she can report what she wants--deal with it. She raved about Panther yesterday so it can go both ways--it's just very biased but not biased for/anti an OS--some people confuse that with impartial. I got sick of it so I stopped reading OSNews. Nobody held a gun to my hand and said, I gotta read everything she writes and she doesn't exactly delete posts off her board that are critical of her even if her response tone is a bit acerbic.

We're all hypocrites...
This leads me to my other major point which is that this a version 1.0 app rushed out the door in "internet time" (hehe) released for free on a platform that competes with Apple. I think we all need to consider that when making our comments. Yes, stuff doesn't work. Yes, it doesn't behave as expected (or it does). We can unistall this app and we should all know by now (Windows and Mac users) that you expect a point-oh release of a free app to have issues, especially when it's coming from Apple who has their own way at looking at the world.

How many Windows users had Steve Jobs with a gun to their head saying they have to install iTunes? How many of us (Windows users) haven't run into an issue with an uninstaller failing or snowballing corruption due to a bad installer/uninstaller? Most Windows users I know are afraid to install software and that's smart in some cases--once bitten twice shy.

But saying it's poor platform choice on the Mac side helps nobody and hurts everyone. I don't know why a lot of these people bought Windows-bundled machine or Windows OS, I know why I did: to run Linux, to do web-testing and run a few windows-specific wireless developer apps. Honestly, I'm familiar with the Apple's Jaguar kernel crash screen (bad 3rd party RAM caused a snowballing corruption) very well. Yeah sure it's in translucent grey in many different languages, but it's still a BSOD. Mac users aren't entirely immune.

Sure its fun to have a platform war, but as a user of 3+ platforms. But if we can't be civil, I hope we can keep the discussion constructive... :)

tychay

Oct 18, 2003, 09:05 AM

Fast User Switching
I noticed that TN about iTunes not opening iTunes when another user is using it with Fast User Switching. This is not a problem with Windows Media so it isn't an OS thing. This doesn't work in Panther either so it definitely isn't an OS thing. It's a design problem in iTunes which they'll probably fix down the road when Mac users start getting copies of Panther and find this out!

PC Hardware
I agree with an earlier poster that Eugenia's problems are probably related to her Matrox card OpenGL drivers. Apple doesn't use (Microsoft) DirectX, and instead uses the (formerly proprietary, now pretty darn) OpenGL. Why would they bother supporting another adopt and destroy "standard" from Microsoft when it's probably a sizeable amount of extra coding. Of course, they could have tamed down the need to make it as close to the original as possible (aqua scroll widgets in XP--anyone think this is a bit extreme?).

Here is a case where I'd bet Jobs didn't let them. I think it was a high priority from someone high at Apple to make it mimic the original closely. Seems sensible to me.

OpenGL probably explains both it's slight sluggishness on some machines to it's downright slowness on others (I don't notice on one XP and one Win2K but to me everything in Windows seems sluggish except scrolling--I might add that as a Mac user I've gotten accustomed to slower scrolling so that's probably why I didn't notice that the scrolling was slow in iTunes for Windows). BTW did anyone else notice the widgets are slightly different between XP and 2K?

Bursty CPU
As for the bursty nature of doing a GUI task, the same is true in an Excel resize. CPU cycles hover low and then burst up high when you resize the window or move windows around. Of course the Apple stuff is going to run a bit higher because of OpenGL tacked onto that. What incentive does Microsoft have of encouraging good OpenGL support when they're the market leader with a competing, proprietary standard that they've locked up? Honestly.

Ogg/FLAC/Real/WMA support
There are a lot of choices out there for Windows including many 3rd party drivers for iPod. iTunes doesn't support these file formats on the Mac, why should we expect anything different in Windows? BTW, you can play back Ogg/FLAC/Real and unencumbered WMAs on the Mac, just not in iTunes. Heck there is an Ogg decoder that is a module in QuickTime. So using a "Quicktime has a component based architecture" doesn't fly here. If such a thing is such an issue you purchase Audion from Panic or whatever else.

Geiss
Geiss is great ever since I first saw it. There's been a Mac version (not a port, since it isn't open source) for a while called G-Force. What do you think the "G" stood for anyway? It was a homage to Geiss. I heard the programmer of G-Force later went on and wrote the iTunes visualizer for Apple but I don't know if it is true.

I can't say about the PC version, but the Mac version has had plugin support for a while. G-Force runs just fine in iTunes (as well as numerous other players), it also can take the audio out and play as a full screen based on whatever is going on (a la Geiss), and I bet a simple command-line can background it to the desktop if it doesn't have the support built-in already. Yes there are numerous other plugins too (not as many as the PC world).

If they made the Windows iTunes just as pluggable, I image we'll be seeing quite a flood.

illegal downloads
Can't comment here because it was effectively bashed on by others. However, I hesitate to use Job's term "stealing", I use "piracy" or "illegal" but I can't speak for stealing since that probably has a more specific legal meaning which copyright violations are not.

BTW, as a European he can download a lot of the music through Microsoft's own music service (in conjunction with some European company that secured some rights).

Tech specs != build quality
Where did this myth get spread. Just because the tech sheet is the same doesn't mean the build quality is, or the integration.

Yes, Apple may be using the same Broadcom or Intel network chip, the difference is Apple uses the same chip across the entire line of computers in that iteration and then codes the driver themselves. Very different.

How many times have I been given the runaround "Microsoft -> Vendor -> OEM -> Microsoft"? Sometimes it's no big deal and worth the pennies shaved, other times it's not worth my time.

How many PCs do I get from reputable vendors (Dell, HP, ...) where they put in a WinModem as their 56k fax/modem? What a pile of crap! The list goes on. These companies are systems integrators and do very little. Apple is more like the auto industry: sure Ford gets the same parts from the same suppliers as BMW but that doesn't make a F series pickup the same as a Z8.

Unfortunately for Apple, while the majority of us don't buy our cars based on a spec sheet, we seem to like to do that when we purchase a computer. Not making a judgement here one way or the other.

Music selection
That's not Job's choice in music. I'll go out on a limb and say that there's probably a reason Apple doesn't have an Metallica on iTMS and it has little to do with Jobs.

Then again, Apple is not out to replace your music store. They're out to stay the #1 legal download site out there and drive some iPod sales. Compared to their pay-for-download competitors' selection and service, they're doing quite well (3/4 of the market). Compared to Kazaa? Well you can play your Kazaa downloads back in iTunes and on your iPod so it doesn't matter much in the strategic sense to Apple.

Certainly better than BuyMusic buying the "rights" to a lot of indie songs from a company that was supposed to be out of business!

two music folder
Sounds to me like you have iTunes not manage your music. That's fine, but did you do a disk usage on the iTunes folder? It doesn't make a copy of your music, it probably stores Windows shortcuts to the music (can't say, on Windows, I'm having it manage music).

resize box
Windows users need to understand that in the mac world, that isn't a "maximize" button. For instance in Safari, that button only expands the window vertically down. There's no UI guideline at Microsoft saying that this should be the case and this is exactly how it behaves on the Mac.

Mac users need to realize this is not the expected behavior in Windows. Windows users do things differently and love to expand things to full screen--I don't know why, this is why I say I use Windows, but I'm not a Windows user. My suspicion is that it is a subconcious issue due to the fact that menus are inside the window and thus the target moves unless the window is expanded to full screen (well menus, toolbars, etc etc).

This is why Windows-like switching behaviour never flys too well in the Mac world and I only see such comments when a Windows user (PC Magazine) reviews the Mac OS. (note: Macs switch between applications and documents can be switched within the app. Windows switches between windows regardless of app. Go figure.)

Virus susceptibility on Mac
Common myth: Macs are more secure because they're used less. Very ignorant. The example you use (e-mail viruses) is particularly bad. Macs do not auto-execute any application from any e-mail program, Macs do not have "different extension means executability" like Windows, Macs do not have a flawed security model where you can damage outside your userspace without user input (i.e. on the Mac if the program tries to hack outside your home directory, it pops up a dialog box demanding user input and you have to type an administor login/password).

These are easy things, the last of which comes from Unix, not Mac. This isn't a Mac specific thing, almost any competing OS other than Windows has these features (though Macs may be even slightly more secure than say Linux because the "default off" standard they use). Microsoft is not stupid, they deliberately chose to create such security holes because they valued developer convenience (and desire to push adoption of certain proprietary standards) over your machine's security.

Then they spread the whole FUD to place blame with the statistically-flawed and logically-suspect, We're broken into the most because we're #1 rant. Cry me a river!

Honestly there are probably more Microsoft zealots out there than pApple zealots (more users by 10x at least) so don't you think if they could write a virus they would (the last Mac virus that wasn't an Excel macro virus was around 1997?)? Especially after the prestige of breaking into a widely-regarded security model as Mac OS X?

Or if you do want to continue to spread this B.S. Go sign up for Microsoft MVP and get paid to do it!

Playing iTunes at selected times
Already mentioned before but to add a bit, do a search for "iCal calling iTunes." Windows GUI control is great, good thing they added GUI scripting to Panther.

Take care,

gelbin

Oct 18, 2003, 09:56 AM

Hey, i have a loser PC using friend that grabbed itunes and playback is a garbled mess. He is using cable, and it works fine on my macs, but it is an echoey/garbled bunch of crap on his pc. Music match plays fine, so i am taking a serious hit on my pro apple campaign. It appears to be a quicktime problem.

tips?

coolbreeze

Oct 18, 2003, 10:31 AM

Tychay:

That has to be the longest post ever! Bravo!!

SBG88

Oct 18, 2003, 11:18 AM

iTunes will support wma when hell thaws out. Why would they give into microsoft of all companies when they are trying to be the leader. Of course this is just an opinion, but, MS is gonna take their first bullet and I'm hoping it's between the eyes. Can't wait for the battle to begin.

VIREBEL661

Oct 18, 2003, 12:13 PM

markie

Oct 18, 2003, 12:27 PM

Ogg yes. Real yes. But WMA, no. Why? Because iTunes is set to be very popular and it not supporting WMA will hopefully keep people from using WMA. And not only is WMA Microsoft, I don't like how it sounds...

cankster

Oct 18, 2003, 01:11 PM

Would love it if someone figured out the whole sluggishness issue. I have a Mac and PC. My PC is Athlon 2600 1gig ram and Radeon 9700 pro graphics card. Itunes: Love it on my Mac.......is very sluggish on my PC computer. Go figure....All I am running is standard Nortons. Operating System is WinXP Pro.

Oh, and does anyone know how to make Itunes for Windows play movies from the same place you play music files from. I told it to make Quick Time my preferred movie player but when i double click a movie MPG format in my music list it wont open up Quicktime and play it....

Lehr

NicoMan

Oct 18, 2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by tychay
That's not Job's choice in music. I'll go out on a limb and say that there's probably a reason Apple doesn't have an Metallica on iTMS and it has little to do with Jobs.
Metallica has been at the forefront of the anti-Kazaa&Co campaign, and I'll let people make their own mind up about that. But they also refused to be part of the iTMS. I don't know if any other online music store has managed to get them on their books, but I find their decision not to be on iTunes rather, hmm... obtuse.

Oh well...

SeaFox

Oct 18, 2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by trose
Incase it was burried to fast, and in response to a question I got-

He was using it atfirst for just PC playback etc, but he loved it so much he wen't out and bought an iPod on his lunch break!

Now thats the kind of stuff Apple want's with this store.

I noticed one annoying as hell Window "feature". When trying to import some of my songs from CD... Windows would not take my Moonlight Sonata's, because Moonlight had " " around it. You cant use " in a Windows file name apparently :\

I hope the music store is "fixed" so that none of the track names have " in them!!

You could just remove the " from the song name, then import the song and put them back if they're that important to you. In MusicMatch, the tag keeps the correct characters but they show up as underscores in the filename.

I'm still trying to figure out how to submit bugs to Apple.

arn

Oct 18, 2003, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by gelbin
Hey, i have a loser PC using friend that grabbed itunes and playback is a garbled mess. He is using cable, and it works fine on my macs, but it is an echoey/garbled bunch of crap on his pc. Music match plays fine, so i am taking a serious hit on my pro apple campaign. It appears to be a quicktime problem.

tips?

Saw this on Slashdot... not sure if applicable.

"be sure to check out your QT settings in the control panel. If the audio out is set to DirectSound, you will probably experience muddy audio clarity. Change it to waveOut and the clarity should be just as good as it is in Winamp. "

arn

iMeowbot

Oct 18, 2003, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by SeaFox
I'm still trying to figure out how to submit bugs to Apple.

You can report iTunes bugs here: http://www.apple.com/feedback/itunes.html

MorganX

Oct 18, 2003, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by tychay

Bursty CPU
As for the bursty nature of doing a GUI task, the same is true in an Excel resize. CPU cycles hover low and then burst up high when you resize the window or move windows around. Of course the Apple stuff is going to run a bit higher because of OpenGL tacked onto that. What incentive does Microsoft have of encouraging good OpenGL support when they're the market leader with a competing, proprietary standard that they've locked up? Honestly.

DirectX is a part of Windows. Not developing with DirectX is like releasinga Mac app that is not OS X native and requires the use of classic.

Microsoft would be foolish to rely on open source to move OpenGL along at the pace required from Windows multimedia, gaming, and what 3D hardware developers have asked for in DirectX. We'd still be using WinG before that happened. Commercial software may be built from "open" source but it will always be proprietary. Fairplay-AAC is no longer "edit: open" AAC or we'd all be able to easily play purchased music on as many machines as we'd like.

The reason apple probably went with OpenGL is because that's what they have expertise with and for the sake of time. If they had used DirectX, they'd have one foot in the XBox door, the PocketPC door (where Windows Media formats show their stuff), and even smartphones.

DirectX isn't competing with anything. By not using it and creating performance issues, and let's face it Quartzs need a lot of iron to run efficiently on current Macs also, they leave the door open for the millions of PC developers who can easily cop the ease of use of iTunes, extend it with many cool plug-ins and what not, and deliver greater performance through DirectX. Not saying it's going to happen but if Apple had the time, I'm sure they would have made it the "best" Windows app possible. And that would have been using the DirectX libraries.

And please, put Cd-text support on both platforms.

JupiterZen

Oct 18, 2003, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by ahe

When I import songs into iTunes, they're moved from their original folder and renamed!
Yes, they're re-arranged in a logical form, but after all that time renaming and organizing my files, I don't like to have that effort wasted...

It has probably been mentioned before, but if nobody helped you out yet ...

Just turn the feature off in the preferences -> advanced -> Keep iTunes Folder organized

;-)

uocooper

Oct 18, 2003, 05:11 PM

Help them make it even better.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/itunes.html

Phil Of Mac

Oct 18, 2003, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by arn
There's a preference to change this behavior.

Try unchecking "Advanced->Keep iTunes Music Folder organized"

arn

Personally, I love the organization feature. It organizes so I don't have to. If only iChat did that with IM logs...

Originally posted by dekator
Ah well, and downloading songs illegally is 'bad karma' ? Right Mr Guru Steve, and how are you in a position to say so. That's a little simplistic isn't it ? Well, anyway, I disagree mostly but then I'm not a member of the Steve jobs school of marketing (sorry, 'thought'). Yes, I'm also tired of religious terminology being trivialized for marketing ends.

It may interest you that Steve Jobs is in fact a Zen Buddhist, and while I am in no way an expert in Eastern religions, Hinduism and many Buddhist sects recognize the concept of karma rather literally.

Originally posted by dekator
'Illegal' downloads are the only option for most of us and I don't think it's a bad thing.
The only good thing for corporate America is to get as rich as possible. Well, it may surprise you to hear but I don't think that's good, indeed, I don't even think it's legitimate and unhealthy if one looks at the big picture and not just one Ego.
It's good karma to share what should be available to all. It's only bad if you're praying to the god of 'infinite accumulation of material wealth' but certainly not in any spiritual sense.

Your boss called. Your salary has been cut to zero. He hopes that you will understand and respect this decision, and that you will continue to share you hard work.

Originally posted by dekator
I believe what we over here in Europe are hoping for is a good non-american OS some time, which is most dersirable, both politically and economically.

It's called Linux. It's from Finland.

Originally posted by iPC
You do know Bill is married to a good woman, right? His philanthropic activites jumped massively after he got married. And his donations are in the billions now. http://gatesfoundation.org/default.htm Most are to places outside of the USA. As to politicians; they are all scum, regardless of nationality. ;) The EU is to blame for the lack of iTMS for Europe. Got a nice mix of EU laws, country specific laws, and of course generic international trade laws.

Bill Gates gave a grant to my old high school. There were conditions attached to it. We haven't forgiven him yet.

Originally posted by a_kim
But has anybody noticed that when you turn Sound Enhancer on, it kind of dampens the vocals of a lot of songs? The higher the amount of enhancement, the less vocals you hear. This doesn't happen on my Mac. I've turned Sound Enhancer off because I can't hear the vocals.

I turned off Sound Enhancer because it makes the music sound worse. Less clear and literal, too filtered. I gotta keep it real.

(On the Mac).

I should note that Mac OS X has always had a *great* audio subsystem. I used to use Public Beta just to listen to how clear the MP3's sounded.

Originally posted by trose
w00t the same guy who was anti-payfordownload and spent $100 just ran to the store and bought an iPod on his lunch break!

Go Apple!

He's gonna have to skip more lunches than that to afford all that :D

Originally posted by MorganX
Does it matter when it started? It accelerated when he got married and had a kid.

How much is Jobs and the Apple board and shareholders giving away? Or do you only hold the "richest" individual you can identify to a high standard of philanthropy.

The fact that they are still "filthy rich" means no rich people are giving as much as they could. We would do well to get them all to give as much as Gates has.

Steve and Bill shouldn't have to donate anything to charity. Making personal computing more ubiquitous than television was enough of a contribution to society.

MorganX

Oct 18, 2003, 05:43 PM

Steve and Bill shouldn't have to donate anything to charity. Making personal computing more ubiquitous than television was enough of a contribution to society.

I agree with you in principle. They shouldn't be "expected" to in our society. From a humane and civilized point of view, anyone with that much wealth when women and children starve "should" have to donate to charity.

Look at all the urban Rap millionaires. After your third Bentley, you think they can't find a nice youth center somewhere to donate to to undo the damage their music does to that community?

No one, in our current society has to donate a thing. But it is the right thing to do when you have an over-abundance of wealth in a class-based society.

Phil Of Mac

Oct 18, 2003, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by MorganX
No one, in our current society has to donate a thing. But it is the right thing to do when you have an over-abundance of wealth in a class-based society.

We really don't have a class-based society. It's more of a continuum than a class system, economically.

That said, it's good that people donate to charity. But my point is, it's useless to deride people for not donating enough when they've already utterly transformed the face of human society for the better. And in any case, Bill Gates donates to charity quite substantially.

Archaeopteryx

Oct 18, 2003, 06:13 PM

well, I downloaded it the other night. It was a tad slow, mostly for the "radio" features.. not slow as in sound quality or play back.. but when i would click something.. ages would go by before it did anything... then it would give me the loading bar... Since i wouldnt pay a buck for something i can get free.. I really will never use it :-D

bwintx

Oct 18, 2003, 08:28 PM

Have been using the Mac version of iTunes at work (during long weekend work sessions) since it debuted. Loaded the new Windows version today on my kid's XP box*. It works great. I love it and, more importantly, so does my very-hard-to-please kid who, 'til now, has been a heavy user of WMP and, earlier on, MusicMatch. She made a point of telling me how much easier it was to burn CDs. Of course, setting up a monthly iTMS allowance for her didn't hurt, either. The power of bribery... :-)

Great job, Apple!

* Sorry, but her school district sold its soul to Bill some years ago, and I wanted her home box to be as compatible as possible with what she would use at school (didn't want to fool with emulators and such). However, she and I have both agreed that this is the last Wintel box that my hard-earned bucks will be buying. From here on, it's Mac or nothing.

Iroganai

Oct 18, 2003, 11:58 PM

Did anyone notice the iTunes 4.1 contains
iTunes-wma.icns in iTunes.app/Contents/Resources ?

Does this mean they will support WMA eventually ?:confused:

Phil Of Mac

Oct 19, 2003, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by Iroganai
Did anyone notice the iTunes 4.1 contains
iTunes-wma.icns in iTunes.app/Contents/Resources ?

Does this mean they will support WMA eventually ?:confused:

Yes.

Who cares. It's another format they can play back.

maxterpiece

Oct 19, 2003, 01:15 AM

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but I know people were looking for a place where windows users were posting there reactions to itunes windows - versiontracker has plenty of reviews.
Here's the link: http://versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/win/29621

QFace

Oct 19, 2003, 03:51 PM

I'm pretty happy w/ iTunes for Windows. I'm running a PIII 1 Ghz Dell w/ 512 MB Ram and a GeForce II Ultra. The features and interface is great, works with my keyboard buttons (Pause, Play, Previous, Next), but sluggish. Songs hiccup when changing songs, starting up a new program, or doing any CPU intensive activity. Also, my computer sometimes seems to be slightly slower than it used to be, and occassionally iTunes makes the computer freeze. Winamp was much snappier and never hiccuped, but I love the iTunes interface, and it actually works with my iPOD (Musicmatch, I'll never use you again, I hope you die forever w/ the most painful death possible). Things that bother me about iTunes: if I try to access playlist I had in winamp, when I import them it recopies the songs into iTunes so I end up w/ two or three copies of each song in my library, so I had to erase all the information to the iTunes library, and remake all my playlists manually. I had a test the next day, but of course iTunes came first. Anyways, I hope future updates that improve performance and reliability will come soon.

tizza

Oct 19, 2003, 05:46 PM

I've been glad to have the iTunes for Windows, as for some strange reason I've had a couple if my CD's that my PB Mac would spit out when I put them in. I was able to rip them in AAC on my windows box at work however and then transfer them to my mac - anyone else had this problem?

(On the upside - my Norah Jones CD which I couldn't rip with Windows, I was able to do with my mac!)

Macco

Oct 19, 2003, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac

Bill Gates gave a grant to my old high school. There were conditions attached to it. We haven't forgiven him yet.

What were his conditions? He probably made you set up a shrine to him in each room and kiss its feet before you used a computer.

Phil Of Mac

Oct 19, 2003, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by Macco
What were his conditions? He probably made you set up a shrine to him in each room and kiss its feet before you used a computer.

A complete restructuring of the school in order to make it "better".