Pot Vending Machines

[MacNut]

Los Angeles, CA -- Ironically...pot dispensing vending machines have been approved in California.
Starting Monday, patients can buy legal medical marijuana at a Los Angeles herbal nutrition center.
All they have to do is pass through security, submit their scripts, pay, and pick-up their drugs.

http://www.wjbf.com/midatlantic/jbf/news_index/health_news.apx.-content-articles-JBF-2008-01-25-0009.html

[dual64bit]

umm. wow.

[MikeTheC]

<stereotypical surfer dude/pot head voice>

Like, that's totally radical, man. Dude... wasted!!! Oh yeah!

</voice>

[MacNut]

They also want to be able to sell prescription drugs this way as well.

[aaron.lee2006]

Couldn't this end up very bad? I mean addicts could find a way into stealing this stuff knowing that it is right there in front of them.

[MikeTheC]

Couldn't this end up very bad? I mean addicts could find a way into stealing this stuff knowing that it is right there in front of them.
Yeah, but have you ever actually *heard* of a pot addict?

[Meecrob]

Couldn't this end up very bad? I mean addicts could find a way into stealing this stuff knowing that it is right there in front of them.

Pot isn't addictive, and there are much easier ways to get it than break into a vending machine surrounded by security.

[Iscariot]

Couldn't this end up very bad? I mean addicts could find a way into stealing this stuff knowing that it is right there in front of them.

There are better ways to obtain illicit medications than straight-up theft. I mean, they could just hold up a pharmacy easy enough. And now that I've given it some thought, that'd probably be a lot more lucrative than holding up a gas station.

[pivo6]

They also want to be able to sell prescription drugs this way as well.

My hospital has a vending machine like this. You input a code given to you by the doctor, and after a few minutes, out pops a bottle of, in my case, vicodin.

[obeygiant]

Los Angeles, CA -- Ironically...pot dispensing vending machines have been approved in California.
Starting Monday, patients can buy legal medical marijuana at a Los Angeles herbal nutrition center.
All they have to do is pass through security, submit their scripts, pay, and pick-up their drugs.

http://www.wjbf.com/midatlantic/jbf/news_index/health_news.apx.-content-articles-JBF-2008-01-25-0009.html
haha, we had one of those in the dorms at college, it was called a drug dealer.

[LethalWolfe]

haha, we had one of those in the dorms at college, it was called a drug dealer.
Yet another example of a blue collar, American worker being replace by a machine...:(


Lethal

[sowillo14]

Yet another example of a blue collar, American worker being replace by a machine...:(


Lethal

Well, remember, machines and illegal aliens do jobs that American citizens have stolen....I, I mean don't want to do. Sorry:D

[skinnylegs]

Pot isn't addictiveYou're joking, right?

[aaron.lee2006]

Let me rephrase. Not addicts, but chronic users. It would be an easy way for them to get there hands on it. And yes, pot can become addictive with long time users. You are not likely to become addicted and feel the need for it as a casual user.

[latergator116]

I don't like this idea at all. A lot of times I'll get something from a vending machine and it manages to jam up or get stuck. I could see this causing a lot of headaches.

[xodonniedarko]

You're joking, right?


You don't get addicted to pot, you get addicted to the feeling of having something to smoke. Just like smokers get addicted to holding something and putting it up to their mouth.

[skinnylegs]

You don't get addicted to pot, you get addicted to the feeling of having something to smoke. Just like smokers get addicted to holding something and putting it up to their mouth.I worked in a drug rehab. unit for a number of years and you are flat-out wrong. BTW....smokers certainly get used to the ritual of smoking but the nicotine is very addictive; as is THC.

[xodonniedarko]

I worked in a drug rehab. unit for a number of years and you are flat-out wrong. BTW....smokers certainly get used to the ritual of smoking but the nicotine is very addictive as well.


Well yes I know nicotine is addictive but there is nothing in pot that is actually addictive, therefor I think the addiction is only mental - like... emotional.


Ah I'll just shush now :)

[Iscariot]

I worked in a drug rehab. unit for a number of years and you are flat-out wrong. BTW....smokers certainly get used to the ritual of smoking but the nicotine is very addictive; as is THC.

Being addicted to something =/= that something is addictive. Lots of people are addicted to non-addictive substances.

[Kashchei]

Has anyone visited Amsterdam and taken advantage of its infamously lax laws on drugs? I wonder what makes the Dutch as a people capable of living with such laws when Americans get their panties in a bunch at the mere mention of medical marijuana.

I think a lot of Americans would be shocked at how the rest of the world views us, which is to say not at all how these Americans view themselves. One of the terms most used in Europe to describe American culture that I've heard most frequently is "puritanical." When it comes to sex and drugs, this hits the nail on the head.

[aaron.lee2006]

Well yes I know nicotine is addictive but there is nothing in pot that is actually addictive, therefor I think the addiction is only mental - like... emotional.


Ah I'll just shush now :)

Read the addiction part of this article.
http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/atod/marijuana.htm#6

[themadchemist]

Well, at least they have to show an Rx.

But it would be nice if there were efforts to isolate the active compounds and use them as leads to develop drugs that specifically treat the given ailments without the various side effects (even though, it seems, people probably want those side effects). But that process would probably dramatically increase the cost of treatment, even if it did improve safety and efficacy...

Oh well, while the vending machines aren't going to help anyone's cause on this front, I don't think that marijuana is so much of a public health concern that it should be illegal. Legalize it, regulate it, and tax it.

[Phil A.]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

the big question is are they putting snack vending machines next to them ;)

[scotthayes]

But it's medical pot, so you can't get high off it.

[Cromulent]

You're joking, right?

Nope. In what way do you think cannabis is addictive?

[scotthayes]

You're joking, right?

It's not, it's the tobacco that is addictive. And of course trying to roll the perfect join can be a little addictive :D

[Wild-Bill]

Sweet! That's a really good idea. I wonder how they keep it fresh in there??

What if it gets stuck on the rung in the vending machine??? Imagine feeding twenty bucks into the machine, only to find your order dangling there??

Talk about a Costanza move...............

....Twix is the only candy with the cookie crunch!

Wait, I just got an idea. Brilliant marketing idea. Put snacks and junk food in the vending machine as well! Some twizzlers, candy bars, maybe some pez, to go along with the "medicine". ;) :cool:

[Abstract]

With regards to a pot vending machine surrounded by lots of security, the big question for me is.....WHY?

[Everythingisnt]

Heh. This doesn't sound like such a bad idea, actually.

[ucfgrad93]

the big question is are they putting snack vending machines next to them ;)

LOL, excellent!

[eric55lv]

wow,Really?:eek:

[Blue Velvet]

Read the addiction part of this article

There's a difference between the definition of medically addictive and habit-forming. Marijuana is not medically addictive, just something that people can get used to... withdrawal effects even for long-term users are relatively benign, unlike withdrawing from heroin, for instance; both drugs that I and acquaintances have had personal experience of.

It's far less addictive in that sense than alcohol and some researchers put it on a par or below caffeine (http://www.procon.org/AddictChart.htm#IIA), which feels about right to me. That headachey and slightly slow feeling you have when you haven't had your first coffee or cup of tea for the day? Bit like that with the need to sleep or exercise it off.

And mixing tobacco with good smoke is akin to mixing coca-cola with a good single malt. And yes, I've been to Amsterdam, more than once. And even though I've been smoking for the past 25 years or so, I haven't had a smoke for about a month now without any problems while getting on with a busy job... so no, not addictive.

However, it's not great for the lungs or your circulation, and that's more to do with smoking something, anything, than marijuana per se.

So, treat it with respect and like anything, if you have to do it, don't overdo it.

[Prof.]

Only in Colly-fornia :rolleyes:

Couldn't you like... ram the vending machine and get free drugs? Call me stupid but, isn't that a bad thing?:confused:

[Everythingisnt]

Only in Colly-fornia :rolleyes:

Couldn't you like... ram the vending machine and get free drugs? Call me stupid but, isn't that a bad thing?:confused:

There are much easier ways to get free drugs ;)..

[Prof.]

There are much easier ways to get free drugs ;)..
And you would know because...?:p

[LethalWolfe]

Only in Colly-fornia :rolleyes:

Couldn't you like... ram the vending machine and get free drugs? Call me stupid but, isn't that a bad thing?:confused:

Probably no more stupid than saying you could just ram an ATM and get free money.

:p

Lethal

[Prof.]

Probably no more stupid than saying you could just ram an ATM and get free money.

:p

Lethal
You prolly could if you had a big enough vehicle. Uhhh... brb:p

[Everythingisnt]

And you would know because...?:p

Umm.. nvm! *leaves*

[obeygiant]

Nope. In what way do you think cannabis is addictive?

Though pot may not be physically addictive. It is certainly mentally/emotionally addictive. The short term or occasional user won't feel the need for a toke again, but a long term user will come to depend on it.

Exceptions to this rule can be tested however. Try going on a hashish binge at the Bulldog/Grasshopper in Amsterdam for 4 days, and take note of how you feel on the plane ride back. :)

[Iscariot]

Though pot may not be physically addictive. It is certainly mentally/emotionally addictive. The short term or occasional user won't feel the need for a toke again, but a long term user will come to depend on it.

Exceptions to this rule can be tested however. Try going on a hashish binge at the Bulldog/Grasshopper in Amsterdam for 4 days, and take note of how you feel on the plane ride back. :)

The same could be said of almost anything associated with a positive emotional/physical sensation.

I'll meet you at the Bulldog in an hour?

[Prof.]

Umm.. nvm! *leaves*
LOL x10

Is that more appropriate, mods? Sorry about the last one:o

[obeygiant]

I'll meet you at the Bulldog in an hour?

uhh, sure. *cough* What time is it right now?

[Rhosfelt]

Never tried it, but I am assuming it is like cigars (in addictiveness) I have had a few, and there is no nicotine in them so they are not that addictive, you don't really depend on them, but it is really calming to smoke one.

Also, I really want to visit Amsterdam, but I don't speak dutch..

[Blue Velvet]

Though pot may not be physically addictive. It is certainly mentally/emotionally addictive. The short term or occasional user won't feel the need for a toke again, but a long term user will come to depend on it.


Sorry but that's utter nonsense. The term 'addiction' is a medical one, so something being mentally/emotionally addictive doesn't make any sense. You could also say that MacRumors is mentally/emotionally addictive.

Also, I speak from long-term experience — 25 years long enough for you? — and those of my friends... no-one I know depends upon it. :rolleyes:

What I find absurd is the supposed authoritative tone displayed by someone with little experience or even any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to back that up.

[CalBoy]

Interesting idea.

Some what contradictory after Thursday's Supreme Court (California's, not SCOTUS) that said that employers have the right to fire employees for marijuana use. Talk about your mixed signals! :rolleyes:

As for the whole addictive vs non-addictive debate, I always thought that marijuana has no chemically-induced addictive effect on the brain, hence making it "non addictive."

I mean, I can form the bad habit of biting my nails, but that doesn't make my nails addictive!

[jamesmcd]

Meh. I live in the Netherlands and this is common. The shop across the road from me is a Coffeeshop and there are hundreds more in my province alone.

But then again, I live in a free country :cool:

[rhsgolfer33]

Sorry but that's utter nonsense. The term 'addiction' is a medical one, so something being mentally/emotionally addictive doesn't make any sense. You could also say that MacRumors is mentally/emotionally addictive.

Also, I speak from long-term experience — 25 years long enough for you? — and those of my friends... no-one I know depends upon it. :rolleyes:

What I find absurd is the supposed authoritative tone displayed by someone with little experience or even any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to back that up.

There are many doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, and addiction medicine medicine specialists who would classify marijuana dependency as an addiction and many more people who have tried to stop smoking marijuana and had a very hard time doing it who would call it an addiction. Narcotics Anonymous classifies marijuana dependency as an addiction saying that it "is both emotionally and mentally addictive." They also say that about 150,000 people seek treatment for marijuana addiction each year. Contrary to what you've been saying, marijuana addicts can and often do go through withdrawls, although they are not as bad as heroin or other opiates, they can still be quite difficult to deal with. Also, addiction, isn't just medical in the way you seem to be defining it, addiction can be emotional, and mental, as well as physical (the way you seem to be defining it). Many psychiatrists deal in addiction medicine because it involves complex issues mentally, and emotionally, as well as physically. It's also why support helps when going through the recovery process, if addiction were only physical it would probably be far easier to stop.

While I don't think everyone who does marijuana is an addict, I completely disagree with you that their is no such thing as a marijuana addict and that there are no withdrawls. Marijuana addiction does exist and it does have withdrawls.

In reality this is something that could be argued for ages, there is medical research to support both sides of the argument. It's not terribly difficult to find an article in any research database supporting whatever your position on marijuana is, and when you include the internet more broadly it's even easier. I respect what you believe but I also disagree. I have never, and will never, try or use marijuana. There are many other things I'd rather frivolously spend my money on that make me far happier for a far longer time than any dumb drug ever will. If you want to use it, go for it, just don't do it while I'm within smelling distance.

[Blue Velvet]

I have never, and will never, try or use marijuana.

There are many other things I'd rather frivolously spend my money on that make me far happier for a far longer time than any dumb drug ever will. If you want to use it, go for it, just don't do it while I'm within smelling distance.


Speak of what you know... the condescension and ignorance evident in that last statement betrays a lack of knowledge of what you purport to know about. Those who have a financial interest in treating so-called marijuana addiction are hardly likely to provide evidence to the contrary.

You obviously have no experience of the matter, yet assert that 'Contrary to what you've been saying, marijuana addicts can and often do go through withdrawls, although they are not as bad as heroin or other opiates, they can still be quite difficult to deal with.' I'd like to know how you know this to be true.

Let me tell you something from decades of drug use — someone who has a demanding, responsible and well-paid job — and I'll be as clear as possible. Marijuana withdrawal is not anywhere on a par with heroin withdrawal, not even ecstasy, alcohol or cocaine withdrawal; anyone who asserts otherwise is talking completely through their hat.

What you describe is an addiction is similar to gambling addiction; yet the terms 'addiction' and 'addict' have been so watered down, like the term genius, that anyone can claim to be an addict of something and people will chime in agreeing... Blurring the line in what addiction means and then attempting to build a spurious case around it, is just poppycock of the highest order.

However, I'm not so blind to admit the harm it can do, but in relation to other drugs, for 99% of people, it's inconsequential. Peanuts can kill; I would wager that globally more people die from analyptic shock than those who die from marijuana use. And yes, certain people who are prone to any kind of damaging habit-forming behaviours should probably stay away from it, but they're just as likely to submerge themselves in any form of obsession that can be as damaging to themselves and those around them.

I like walking a certain route to work with my iPod, it gives me comfort in a routine, I enjoy its pleasures... Would I feel slightly unsettled if I had to go another way without my iPod? Yes. Am I addicted? No.

[obeygiant]

What I find absurd is the supposed authoritative tone displayed by someone with little experience or even any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to back that up.

Back at cha, velvet. ;)

Speak of what you know... the condescension and ignorance evident in that last statement betrays a lack of knowledge of what you purport to know about. Those who have a financial interest in treating so-called marijuana addiction are hardly likely to provide evidence to the contrary.

Your condescending tone and calling other posters opinions and experience "poppycock" is conduct unbecoming a moderator. Try saying "I respectfully disagree" instead of "you clearly don't know what you're talking about" or telling someone that they're ignorant. Please and thank you. :)

Contrary to what you've been saying, marijuana addicts can and often do go through withdrawls, although they are not as bad as heroin or other opiates, they can still be quite difficult to deal with.'[/I] I'd like to know how you know this to be true.

Let me tell you something from decades of drug use — someone who has a demanding, responsible and well-paid job — and I'll be as clear as possible. Marijuana withdrawal is not anywhere on a par with heroin withdrawal, not even ecstasy, alcohol or cocaine withdrawal; anyone who asserts otherwise is talking completely through their hat.

What you describe is an addiction is similar to gambling addiction; yet the terms 'addiction' and 'addict' have been so watered down, like the term genius, that anyone can claim to be an addict of something and people will chime in agreeing... Blurring the line in what addiction means and then attempting to build a spurious case around it, is just poppycock of the highest order.

BV, you are hardly the be all end all for drug addiction on this forum. There ARE addicts to marijuana. An addiction to gambling or heroin is still an addiction. Until you've witnessed how even a gambling addiction can ruin someone's life and family, what's on "par" with what doesn't matter. Sure, a heroin addiction is more intense than a marijuana addiction, even people who haven't tried heroin can tell you that. Marijuana does have a withdrawl, it has happened to ME, whether you think its a withdrawl for lightweights doesn't matter.

There are many doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, and addiction medicine medicine specialists who would classify marijuana dependency as an addiction and many more people who have tried to stop smoking marijuana and had a very hard time doing it who would call it an addiction. Narcotics Anonymous classifies marijuana dependency as an addiction saying that it "is both emotionally and mentally addictive." They also say that about 150,000 people seek treatment for marijuana addiction each year. Contrary to what you've been saying, marijuana addicts can and often do go through withdrawls, although they are not as bad as heroin or other opiates, they can still be quite difficult to deal with. Also, addiction, isn't just medical in the way you seem to be defining it, addiction can be emotional, and mental, as well as physical (the way you seem to be defining it). Many psychiatrists deal in addiction medicine because it involves complex issues mentally, and emotionally, as well as physically. It's also why support helps when going through the recovery process, if addiction were only physical it would probably be far easier to stop.

While I don't think everyone who does marijuana is an addict, I completely disagree with you that their is no such thing as a marijuana addict and that there are no withdrawls. Marijuana addiction does exist and it does have withdrawls.

In reality this is something that could be argued for ages, there is medical research to support both sides of the argument. It's not terribly difficult to find an article in any research database supporting whatever your position on marijuana is, and when you include the internet more broadly it's even easier. I respect what you believe but I also disagree. I have never, and will never, try or use marijuana. There are many other things I'd rather frivolously spend my money on that make me far happier for a far longer time than any dumb drug ever will. If you want to use it, go for it, just don't do it while I'm within smelling distance.



Marijuana addiction has the same characteristics as any other addiction to other drugs including alcohol, tobacco or even caffeine. The frequent obsession with the drug, thinking about it all the time, where to get it, when to get it, is there enough, is it good enough, will I have the money for more are frequently asked questions. Another trait of marijuana addiction is the physical craving that comes when the body adapts to the drug and begins to develop a tolerance to it.one of about 100 site about marijuana addiction (http://www.marijuana-addiction.net/)

[MACDRIVE]

Being addicted to something =/= that something is addictive. Lots of people are addicted to non-addictive substances.

In my case that would be chocolate chip cookies and ice cold milk. :o

[Blue Velvet]

Your condescending tone and calling other posters opinions and experience "poppycock" is conduct unbecoming a moderator.

There is no duty laid upon us to treat nonsense with respect, as you will see other moderators also do. So, let's not make this personal — it's a fruitless endeavour — and also let's not get involved with replies that do not concern you. Thanks.



BV, you are hardly the be all end all for drug addiction on this forum.

I never said I was, but what I do have is undoubted personal experience, which is more than many people in this thread who speak of what they do not know.



one of about 100 site about marijuana addiction (http://www.marijuana-addiction.net/)


Only because they have a clear financial interest in treating something, I thought that was pretty clear.




Spencer Recovery Center's licensed professional therapeutic staff specializes in cognitive-behavioral therapy in both a group and one-on-one setting.

This isn't just a passing desire to get high, but rather a physical craving the body goes through like hunger or thirst. In addition to the physical dependence the brains chemicals are disrupted and new neurological pathways develop based on the continued use of marijuana.

I'm sorry, but that's ludicrous especially when they go on to say:



Although there is no medication for marijuana treatment specifically, our staff physician can monitor the need for anti-anxiety prescriptions and vitamin supplements.


Let's split you off from your surroundings and dole out some librium and vitamins so you don't get a jones for a joint? The notion is utterly laughable. :D

[srf4real]

I can understand why a crowded area like the west coast would need to supply vending machines. Over here we just use our backyard.

*j/k, DEA, DOHS, MADD, SWAT, etc...:eek:

[decksnap]

But it's medical pot, so you can't get high off it.

What? no. In fact, they often have the really good stuff!




Weed is simply not physically addictive, but if your definition of addiction is broader than 'physical' then of course it is. When I think about the lengths I've gone to get it when I didn't have it, I can say with certainty that I was addicted.

[davidjearly]

Addiction: a repetitive pattern that increases the risk of disease and associated personal and social problems. The individual usually has a loss of control and seeks immediate gratification, then suffers delayed, deleterious effects. They often relapse when trying to quit. (taken from a recent Nature article)

Both animal and human studies support the argument that cannabis is addictive.

The most recent animal studies carried out support the notion that cannabis is addictive. In fact, THC has been shown to affect the developmental plasticity of the reward system.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no doubt that cannabis is an addictive substance, whatever way you want to slice it.

Thus, its use should be controlled.

[skunk]

Addiction: a repetitive pattern that increases the risk of disease and associated personal and social problems. The individual usually has a loss of control and seeks immediate gratification, then suffers delayed, deleterious effects.That sounds more like Life™ than cannabis addiction. I think people should be banned, they cause nothing but trouble.

[Blue Velvet]

As far as I'm concerned, there is no doubt that cannabis is an addictive substance, whatever way you want to slice it.

Thus, its use should be controlled.



The medical community now makes a careful theoretical distinction between physical dependence (characterized by symptoms of withdrawal) and psychological dependence (or simply addiction).

So, perhaps I'm the one who is being narrow in the view of what an addiction is, preferring to use the phrase in its classical sense of a physical dependency... for which there is little to no evidence for. If it was so addictive, then why can most people pick it up and put it down whenever they want? I'm not a qualified and registered doctor, nor do I attempt to pass myself off as one.

To me, isolating half a dozen rodents in a controlled and restricted environment, and giving them a choice to consume THC, says little about humans and the social context in which they consume all forms of chemicals for whatever reason. If I shut you up in a little white box for any length of time with nothing but food, water and bedding, you'd probably happily take any drug that was offered to you as well, especially one that undoubtedly is pleasurable in its own way.

DSM-IV — of which I have some experience — defines marijuana dependence as increased tolerance, compulsion, impaired control, and continued use despite physical/psychological problems caused or exacerbated by its use... however, that puts aside the issue of who is actually susceptible and what comes first in that instance, particularly as it's not a universal constant in the sense that individuals will react to it in so many different ways. But it's also commonly noted that somewhere about 1.5% of cannabis users suffer problems, a relatively low figure.

The fact that the therapies that are offered for this supposed plague, the 1.5%, are based around cognitive-behavioral techniques suggest the problem — as experienced by some people — is behavioral and social in nature, rather than chemical.

And its funny how communities where it is easily available with fewer restrictions, the Netherlands for instance, have far lower uses of the drug than the UK, where it is controlled, especially with teenagers. So, control is clearly not the answer to a non-existent question... people will smoke regardless of the laws.

I'm coming from the perspective of someone who has taken heroin a number of times, and from considerable time and experience living around and with heroin users. That's addiction... shopping, sex and the occasional joint, even a few a week, do not count as an addiction, in my view... nor does having a craving for something that is pleasurable.

Many of us say we're addicted to using Macs; but we're not really. We'd suffer in some way if they were taken away from us, but to describe them as a physical dependency is overstating the case by many degrees, except for some individuals here who shall remain nameless. ;)

[CalBoy]

In my case that would be chocolate chip cookies and ice cold milk. :o
Warm brownies and vanilla ice cream for me. :o
That sounds more like Life™ than cannabis addiction. I think people should be banned, they cause nothing but trouble.

Did I tell you that I <3 you skunk?

I feel like I owe you a prize or something! :D

[rhsgolfer33]

There is no duty laid upon us to treat nonsense with respect, as you will see other moderators also do. So, let's not make this personal — it's a fruitless endeavour — and also let's not get involved with replies that do not concern you. Thanks.

I never said I was, but what I do have is undoubted personal experience, which is more than many people in this thread who speak of what they do not know.

Only because they have a clear financial interest in treating something, I thought that was pretty clear.


It's not nonsense, just because you don't agree with an opinion, that many health professionals share, doesn't mean its "nonsense." I agree that your tone is unbecoming of a moderator. You seem to think that 25 years of smoking marijuana makes you some sort of authority on its effects, that's hardly so, in fact it makes you no more an authority than me. Also, you responded to his reply, in a previous post, and basicly called it garbage as well, so your reply does concern him.

Narcotics Anonymous treats marijuana addiction, and they have no financial interests in doing so. NA is free. There also exists a Marijuana Anonymous which is also free.

"Marijuana-dependent subjects also reported significantly more days using than cocaine-dependent subjects, as well as higher levels of craving." from:Characteristics of cocaine- and marijuana-dependent subjects presenting for medication treatment trials by Aimee L McRae, Sarra L Hedden, Robert J Malcolm, Rickey E Carter, Kathleen T Brady. Addictive Behaviors. Oxford: Jul 2007. Taken from the abstract.

"The proportion of children and teens in treatment for marijuana dependence and abuse jumped 142 percent since 1992. The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse (CASA) study found that children and adolescents were three times more likely to be in treatment for marijuana than for alcohol and six times likelier to be in treatment for marijuana than for all other illegal drugs combined." from CASA: Marijuana tops list for teen treatment admissions by Anonymous. Alcoholism & Drug Abuse Weekly. Providence: Apr 26, 2004. Taken from the abstract

"The current study provides an initial examination of lapse and relapse to marijuana use among 82 individuals who achieved at least 2 weeks of abstinence during outpatient treatment for marijuana dependence. Seventy-one percent used marijuana at least once (i.e., lapsed) within 6 months of initial abstinence, averaging 73 days (SD = 50) till lapsing. Similarly, 71% of those who lapsed, relapsed to heavier use defined as at least 4 days of marijuana use in any 7-day period. Early lapses were more strongly associated with consequent relapse. Previous studies have noted that marijuana-dependent outpatients experience difficulty initiating abstinence from marijuana much as do those dependent on other substances. The present data suggest that these similarities extend to difficulty maintaining abstinence." from Relapse in outpatient treatment for marijuana dependence by Brent A Moore, Alan J Budney. Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment. Elmsford: Sep 2003. Taken from the abstract.


You'll notice in the next quote the speaker says "subset" implying that not all people who use marijuana are addicts or dependent on marijuana, exactly what I've previously said.

"A subset of marijuana smokers develop a cannabis use disorder and seek treatment for their marijuana use on their own initiative. A less well-known consequence of daily, repeated marijuana use is a withdrawal syndrome, characterized by a time-dependent constellation of symptoms: irritability, anxiety, marijuana craving, decreased quality and quantity of sleep, and decreased food intake. Treatment studies show that rates of continuous abstinence are low (comparable to relapse rates for other abused drugs), and more treatment options are needed. The objective of this review is to update clinicians on the current state of marijuana research and to describe features of marijuana withdrawal to facilitate the diagnosis and treatment of cannabis use disorders." from The marijuana withdrawal syndrome: Diagnosis and treatment by Margaret Haney (New York State Psychiatric Institute, College of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia Universit) in Current Psychiatry Reports on September, 2005. Taken from abstract.


I'd love to provide you with quotes straight from the full text of these very reputable journal articles, but unfortunately I really don't have the time, as I've spent far to much on this already. My stance is one backed by many medical professionals and is discussed in many medical journals. Marijuana withdrawls do exists, but as I said before, they are not as severe as heroin or other opiates, denying that marijuana withdrawls occur for some people is poppycock. Basing your argument off of your own experience and then shooting others down for using sources that you say benefit financially is really somewhat funny. While one source might benefit financially, its kind of ironic that you place your own experience, which is equally biased, so far above others comments. I honestly really don't care if someone choses to smoke, but when you shoot down others opinion and comments that can be backed up, whilst providing little evidence other than your own experience, it make you seem arrogant and cocky, and really disgraces your position as a moderator.

[Blue Velvet]

I honestly really don't care if someone choses to smoke, but when you shoot down others opinion and comments that can be backed up, whilst providing little evidence other than your own experience, it make you seem arrogant and cocky, and really disgraces your position as a moderator.


Do you really think that moderators are immune from giving their own opinions based on their own experience, and those of their own peers, instead of those relying on second-hand information and without any direct experience?

And what's more, what you think a moderator should be, is entirely unconnected with this discussion and is yet another thing you seem to be confused about while pressing this completely irrelevant point, acting as the peanut gallery to someone else's personal gripe. I don't care one whit about what you think a moderator should be, because I know that 95% of what I do here is unseen but highly effective, and carried out with a professionalism that you'd be surprised by, especially as we're all volunteers, anyway. So, it's best to just drop that side of things.


You'll notice in the next quote the speaker says "subset" implying that not all people who use marijuana are addicts or dependent on marijuana, exactly what I've previously said.

And I completely agree, which is my main point. If it was addictive, then it would have a far more universal effect on those who enjoy it... there are very few people who could take a week or so of being on smack without developing an addiction, tobacco as well... yet by far the majority, well over 95% of smokers, can put it down at will. Why is this?

So, while there are people that have problems, they're a tiny minority of smokers... and since all the supposed treatments aimed towards them are based on behavioural psychology, then it suggests that the cause is a psychological one rather than a physical addiction.

Addiction is a word tossed around far too lightly in an attempt to simultaneously give credence to the medicalising of every supposed syndrome we have in this society, and is also a crude attempt by the prohibitionists to put marijuana on a par with narcotics. It's just reefer madness all over again...

And since you're so fond of quotes; we always strive for balance:

Cannabis has never been known to kill anyone: estimates suggest that you would have to eat at least 675 grams of resin in a sitting to endanger yourself.

John Macleod of the University of Birmingham is another sceptic. In May 2004 in the Lancet, he analysed 48 research studies on the alleged psychological and social harms of cannabis, concluding that two-thirds of them were of dubious methodology and that even the better ones failed to prove a causal relation.

"If cannabis caused schizophrenia," says Trevor Turner, a consultant psychiatrist based in Hackney in east London, "the rate of incidence in countries where it's used more widely would be higher — but there's no evidence of that. Nor has the rate of schizophrenia increased in the UK, despite statistics showing that 50% of young people have tried it, compared with only 10% in 1970." When I mention Robin Murray's claim that in the area of south London where he works the rate of schizophrenia has doubled, Turner points to complicating factors including an immigrant, urban population (schizophrenia is always more common in cities and among immigrants) and the fact that methods for recognition are so much better these days.

http://cannabis.net/articles/psychosis.html

Have a nice day. :)

[MacNut]

So surprised that this went into the PRSI.:rolleyes:

Moderators are allowed an opinion even if you don't agree with it. Just because BV is a mod does not mean that she has to keep quite about something. She is a normal member that just happens to be a Moderator. No need to be belligerent to her or anyone else.

[Prof.]

So surprised that this went into the PRSI.:rolleyes:

Moderators are allowed an opinion even if you don't agree with it. Just because BV is a mod does not mean that she has to keep quite about something. She is a normal member that just happens to be a Moderator. No need to be belligerent to her or anyone else.

Hear, Hear!!!

Moderators are ppl too;) Moderators are ppl who you don't wanna mess with if you value your life:p

[themadchemist]

Addiction: a repetitive pattern that increases the risk of disease and associated personal and social problems. The individual usually has a loss of control and seeks immediate gratification, then suffers delayed, deleterious effects. They often relapse when trying to quit. (taken from a recent Nature article)

Both animal and human studies support the argument that cannabis is addictive.

The most recent animal studies carried out support the notion that cannabis is addictive. In fact, THC has been shown to affect the developmental plasticity of the reward system.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no doubt that cannabis is an addictive substance, whatever way you want to slice it.

Thus, its use should be controlled.

In what concentrations? Sometimes, those animal studies end up using rather high drug concentrations. I'd love to see a paper if you've got a recommendation.

[Blue Velvet]

You know what? I don't need defending but it's clear that this has strayed so far from the original topic, something which I take partial responsibility for, that the thread should just gently be rolled up and burned... puffing smoke rings upwards towards the ceiling.

Vending machines for medical marijuana is a great idea. Medical marijuana that actually helps people, what a novel concept. Only been around for thousands of years.

Chill.