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View Full Version : Time to stop calling the MBAir "slow."




mashoutposse
Jan 26, 2008, 08:53 AM
Two to three times faster than computers in its class:

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/apple-macbook-air-core/4505-3121_7-32818756.html?tag=bubbl_3

OT: Check out the video -- I was :eek: when he closed the Air that first time :eek: That is why I'm replacing my MBP with this! :apple:



iMpathetic
Jan 26, 2008, 08:58 AM
OK, I agree. Not even in terms of benchmarking, it's just that IT'S NOT THAT EFFIN' SLOW. It would toast a mini, toast a dual-core G5, toast my 1.33GHz iBook, toast any computer I've ever owned.

In fact, I would give my left nostril for one, purely because of a speed increase.

ucfgrad93
Jan 26, 2008, 09:07 AM
Macworld just published some results, you can find them here http://www.macworld.com/article/131805/2008/01/macbookair_first_tests.html

mashoutposse
Jan 26, 2008, 09:25 AM
Macworld just published some results, you can find them here http://www.macworld.com/article/131805/2008/01/macbookair_first_tests.html

Next set of benchmarks: MBP compared to a Mac Pro of similar cost :p ;)

The MacBook Air takes up nearly three times less volume than either the MB or 15" MBP. They are not really comparable.

em500
Jan 26, 2008, 09:42 AM
It would toast a mini, toast a dual-core G5, toast my 1.33GHz iBook, toast any computer I've ever owned.

It's probably comparable to the faster G5's in terms of CPU, but for disk intensive tasks the desktops would absolutely destroy the Air, unless you opt for the SSD. And the current Mini is actually faster than the Air.

iDAG
Jan 26, 2008, 10:24 AM
It's probably comparable to the faster G5's in terms of CPU, but for disk intensive tasks the desktops would absolutely destroy the Air, unless you opt for the SSD. And the current Mini is actually faster than the Air.

I agree, I remember reading somewhere that benchmark wise, it is the slowest computer that Apple makes.

mashoutposse
Jan 26, 2008, 10:35 AM
I agree, I remember reading somewhere that benchmark wise, it is the slowest computer that Apple makes.

:confused:

I don't know of many (any?) computer manfacturers whose smallest computers AREN'T their slowest.

diabolic
Jan 26, 2008, 10:36 AM
I agree, I remember reading somewhere that benchmark wise, it is the slowest computer that Apple makes.

But it's faster than the other manufacturers' systems in it's weight class.

SVT Amateur
Jan 26, 2008, 10:39 AM
I like the MBA, looks pretty sweet IMO.

esvee
Jan 26, 2008, 10:57 AM
My biggest complaint isn't the speed, my complaint is how much they're charging for it, in comparison to other products. Spend 3 grand on a mac pro and see what you get. From the review itself: "slower than other MacBooks"

Also, from the MR homepage: Wireless Remote disk details: can't play DVD media, can't burn a CD, can't listen to a music CD.

So, you can read a data cd. Way to go.

geese
Jan 26, 2008, 11:13 AM
My biggest complaint isn't the speed, my complaint is how much they're charging for it, in comparison to other products. Spend 3 grand on a mac pro and see what you get.

Also, from the MR homepage: Wireless Remote disk details: can't play DVD media, can't burn a CD, can't listen to a music CD.

So, you can read a data cd. Way to go.

This is probably the 87234598723498th time someones said this, but the MBA exists as a very portable machine, which is decently fast, and is appealing to a more specific niche.

If you want a laptop with better specs, in exchange for more bulk, buy a Macbook Pro. I do not understand why so many people are making such a fuss. Its an alternative to Apples laptops, not a replacement for it.

I think the moaners on this forum take things that Apple do that is outside *their* narrow vision of how Apple should do things very hard to deal with and. They're the kind of people who constantly whine that Apple doesnt make things to their specific need, and cry at every Macworld because they cant see the bigger picture, or they're too tight to pay more for the Mac they want.

I personally think the Macbook Air is a marvellous design, but with a few shortcomings that might limit it. I think that the general consensus on this board. But most people with an interest in technology don't react like Apple stole their new born child, they just buy something else instead.

Remember, its not 1997 anymore. Apple are a rich company. They can afford to take risks and make stuff thats a bit edgy. Stop acting like they're on the verge of going down.

Stridder44
Jan 26, 2008, 11:15 AM
Slow? No, not at all.

But fast? HAHAHAHA!

uNext
Jan 26, 2008, 11:24 AM
So you wil ditch a 2.2 or 2.4 dual core computer with dedicated graphics-a faster spinning hard drive (54 or 72k depending on what you got) for a 1.6-1.8 dedicated graphics with a 42k rpm hard drive simply because of how fast it turned on after he closed the lid?

mashoutposse
Jan 26, 2008, 11:29 AM
Here are the respective volumes of Apple's current laptop lineup:

MacBook Pro 15-inch - 135 in^3
MacBook - 123 in^3
MacBook Air - 53 in^3

It's amazing that Apple fit into it what they did. People aren't giving them enough credit here. Look at the CNet benchmarks -- if you want something comparable by volume, you're going to be making huge sacrifices on the performance front.

About the footprint: If you typically carry papers and folders around with you, the MBA's footprint isn't going to matter. Realistically, anything bigger than pocket-size but smaller than a typical folder or sheet of paper might as well be the same size. That's why Apple's approach makes sense.

geese
Jan 26, 2008, 11:30 AM
So you wil ditch a 2.2 or 2.4 dual core computer with dedicated graphics-a faster spinning hard drive (54 or 72k depending on what you got) for a 1.6-1.8 dedicated graphics with a 42k rpm hard drive simply because of how fast it turned on after he closed the lid?

no, but funnily enough, there are enough people out there who dont care about having a dedicated graphics card, nor are they bothered about incremental processor speeds, or HD speeds. You might not know any of them, but to alot of people, as long as it feels fast, thats enough for them, they'd want something thats looks the business and is fast and light.

Of course, they might want a laptop thats faster and has a better spec for the money, and are less bothered about weight.

Shame Apple hasnt got a machine like that... oh yes they do, its called the Macbook Pro.

Squelch
Jan 26, 2008, 12:21 PM
Personally, I'm moving from a 12" PB with a 1 GHz processor, 40 GB HDD, and 768 MB RAM. I use it for school and to surf the internet around the house. Wherever I go, there's wireless, and I rarely need an optical drive. I am also getting a Mac Pro, plus my wife has a MacBook, so this is not my only computer. (I also have a 17" 1.67 PB, and about four other PCs...)

If I already had a 15" MacBook Pro, I wouldn't dump it for this. But I am sorely in need of a new laptop to replace the 12", and this thing is perfect. Even if it's slower than a new MacBook or MacBook Pro, it's still WAY faster than this old PB G4. It has more memory, it has a bigger hard drive, and it will fit into an envelope in a three-ring binder to carry with me to class. Perfect!

heatmiser
Jan 26, 2008, 12:27 PM
For people who tell us we shouldn't compare the MBA to the MB/Ps, you guys sure spend a lot of time comparing the MBA to the MB/Ps.

esvee
Jan 26, 2008, 12:47 PM
Remember, its not 1997 anymore. Apple are a rich company. They can afford to take risks and make stuff thats a bit edgy. Stop acting like they're on the verge of going down.

I completely understand everything you've said. My opinion of the MBA, is simply that it has alot of shortcomings and non-functionalities for the price it comes at. Form was definitely taken over functionality, and things like what I've mentioned about about the remote disk access.

I've always loved apple for their ways to simplify tasks that I've known to be quite complex. Steve's "I want it done in three clicks" approach is marvelous, and their designs have always been great.

However, its hard for anyone not to say that this years keynote was underwhelming.

Is the MBA a great concept and a big step in the right direction? Most definitely. But where the thing loses its lustre is at the pricepoint, you can get a computer that isn't that much bigger, with more power, for alot less money (ie macbook). They simply didn't make the thing revolutionary enough to qualify for the pricetag they've put on it. As with all first-time-ish things I expect that the revisions of the MBA will lead to a fantastic product, but as it stands right now, unless you've literally got money to burn, it just doesn't make alot of sense. Minimal bang for your buck and whatnot.

zedsdead
Jan 26, 2008, 12:49 PM
It may have the slowest processor in a Mac now, but it has the fastest hard drive (or the slowest, depending on what you opt for).;)

Catch
Jan 26, 2008, 12:51 PM
Two to three times faster than computers in its class:

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/apple-macbook-air-core/4505-3121_7-32818756.html?tag=bubbl_3

OT: Check out the video -- I was :eek: when he closed the Air that first time :eek: That is why I'm replacing my MBP with this! :apple:

Im stoked... Just can't wait to get mine. Still nochange to the shipping... :cool:

C

mashoutposse
Jan 26, 2008, 04:03 PM
It may have the slowest processor in a Mac now, but it has the fastest hard drive (or the slowest, depending on what you opt for).;)

There's a very real chance that the 1.8/SSD model will offer real-world performance on par with current SR MBPs.

synth3tik
Jan 26, 2008, 04:05 PM
I am not the biggest fan of the MBA, but the one thing I like is the speed. It is a rather fast little beast for the size and it's intended purpose.

BioChron
Jan 26, 2008, 04:44 PM
I use a 1.83 Core Duo iMac. The Air can't be that much slower. :-P Or rather, i wouldn't be complaining just because it is a tiny bit slower. I also use a 1.5 PowerBook regularly. I don't complain of the speed of that, because while it is old and slow, it isn't nearly as bad as some processors.

clayj
Jan 26, 2008, 04:49 PM
My 1.8 GHz MBA will be at least as fast as the 2.16 GHz Core Duo MBP I am replacing... so it certainly won't seem slow to me.

MacsAttack
Jan 26, 2008, 05:16 PM
Hmm... The 1.8 inch HD isn't as bad as I thought it would be. having 2GB of memory probably doesn't hurt though. I'm real interested to see how the SSD benchmarks.

HLdan
Jan 26, 2008, 06:33 PM
My biggest complaint isn't the speed, my complaint is how much they're charging for it, in comparison to other products. Spend 3 grand on a mac pro and see what you get. From the review itself: "slower than other MacBooks"

Also, from the MR homepage: Wireless Remote disk details: can't play DVD media, can't burn a CD, can't listen to a music CD.

So, you can read a data cd. Way to go.

Not a good analogy. Yes the Mac Pro at $3k will be a sweet system but at what cost? The cost of only being able to use it at a stationary place, it needs a screen to use it. Nuff said.
The Air can be used anywhere and the SSD model at 1.8Ghz probably will kick A$$. Can't wait to get one.:D

esvee
Jan 26, 2008, 09:08 PM
Not a good analogy. Yes the Mac Pro at $3k will be a sweet system but at what cost? The cost of only being able to use it at a stationary place, it needs a screen to use it. Nuff said.
The Air can be used anywhere and the SSD model at 1.8Ghz probably will kick A$$. Can't wait to get one.:D

The simple point of my analogy is that people are only calling the mba slow as a matter of relativity. How much power you can get for that money, regardless of the form factor.

BklynKid
Jan 26, 2008, 09:16 PM
Two to three times faster than computers in its class

And that's the point, the whole class of computers that the MBA falls under is far below most peoples needs/wants.

Capt. Morgan
Jan 27, 2008, 12:40 PM
The Air can be used anywhere and the SSD model at 1.8Ghz probably will kick A$$. Can't wait to get one.:D

I'm not holding out a lot of hope for the SSD model to benchmark significantly faster in real-world tasks. OTOH, it would be funny to see what the "performance is everything" MBA-haters would have to say if the SSD benchmarked faster than their fat MBP machines. I might even put off my purchase to see the benchmarks, and perhaps the SSD premium will drop a bit.

Jiddick ExRex
Jan 27, 2008, 11:56 PM
OK, I agree. Not even in terms of benchmarking, it's just that IT'S NOT THAT EFFIN' SLOW. It would toast a mini, toast a dual-core G5, toast my 1.33GHz iBook, toast any computer I've ever owned.

In fact, I would give my left nostril for one, purely because of a speed increase.

Correction, it would toast your iBook 1.33 and a 1.42 iBook, and that's it. no way it would toast a mini that has higher clocked processors and a faster HD, let alone a desktop g5 with 3.5 " drive. You're being a little optimistic.

Freyqq
Jan 27, 2008, 11:59 PM
it is slow in comparison to a macbook..basically its main competition

MacinDoc
Jan 28, 2008, 12:14 AM
No doubt about it, you get less for your money with the Air than with the MB.

OTOH, the same could be said about the iPod Nano vs. the Classic. And I don't see anyone making this complaint about the Nano.

The Air is simply the Nano of laptops. Nothing more, nothing less. It will have a market because of its limited size and weight compared to the MB.

mashoutposse
Jan 28, 2008, 12:16 AM
No doubt about it, you get less for your money with the Air than with the MB.

OTOH, the same could be said about the iPod Nano vs. the Classic. And I don't see anyone making this complaint about the Nano.

The Air is simply the Nano of laptops. Nothing more, nothing less. It will have a market because of its limited size and weight compared to the MB.

Spot on.

iW00t
Jan 28, 2008, 02:32 AM
OK, I agree. Not even in terms of benchmarking, it's just that IT'S NOT THAT EFFIN' SLOW. It would toast a mini, toast a dual-core G5, toast my 1.33GHz iBook, toast any computer I've ever owned.

In fact, I would give my left nostril for one, purely because of a speed increase.

Are you sure it would toast a Mini? I mean Minis come in 1.83ghz configuration nowadays you know...

steve31
Jan 28, 2008, 03:09 AM
I would think that the MBA 1.8 SSD would be very close to a MB. At least I hope so.;)

ViveLeLivre
Jan 28, 2008, 07:20 AM
It's wider and longer than a MacBook, yet it's slower than the last two (three?) generations of MacBooks. It's not an ultraportable, it's not a subnotebook. The ultraportables the MBA outperforms all have 12" screens or smaller.

If you want one, buy one, but face it: it's a 13" notebook and Apple makes a faster one of those.

It's slow.

ctt1wbw
Jan 28, 2008, 08:22 AM
it is slow in comparison to a macbook..basically its main competition

Comments like these make me laugh out loud! Do you people have a stopwatch and time things on a laptop or what?

People, a 1.6 GHz C2D is a common thing, even in Windows laptops. My two month Dell Inspiron has one, and I have zero complaints.

clevin
Jan 28, 2008, 08:23 AM
2G memory vs. 1G?
mac vs windows?
1.0Ghz vs 1.6Ghz?

only fair comparison is price. Not much else.

if from this, you want to call MBA "fast"

do you also admit MBA is "Large"? "crippled"? "heavy"?

ViveLeLivre
Jan 28, 2008, 08:52 AM
Only fair comparison is price?

You must be kidding. Your choices are a decrepit 4200rpm drive or a cost prohibitive SSD. Not to mention the external optical drive and all the other missing features that have been repeated here ad nauseum.

Again, buy it if you must, but step out of the distortion field. There's nothing practical about the MacBook Air.

ctt1wbw
Jan 28, 2008, 09:11 AM
Yeah, and we all know the mark of a TRUE computer is the ability to watch a dvd.

Cybergypsy
Jan 28, 2008, 09:30 AM
You guy give me a good laugh......thanks:cool:

shigzeo
Jan 28, 2008, 09:48 AM
personally, with a mbp of 2.4 with base everything, i know that in the portable world, i am standing pretty well. i can pretty much fly through ps and id stuff that took much longer on our work amd dual core 2.0 system.

i am not in the market for a computer but...

this mba is just capturing something else in me. it is not that bad of a price if you consider what it is compared against. if against under 3.0 lbs computers, it is if not skimpy on connections, otherwise well fitted. it looks good, runs what will be a great os and when it is good, there will be hardly any reason to use an external optical drive - until 10.5.4 or so however, i would keep 10.4 and a disk ready.

but, from the perspective of a nice looking machine that is probably going to usher in a tide of new computers based on a similar design it is very very intriguing. it may do well or it may not but it surely is a step toward probably what has been the last step to take for portable computing - just getting rid of everything but essentials. dvd would be great - sometimes, but lately, i have bought games and music from internet and dvd - you can download as well - i rarely watch movies anyway.

some of you do and heaps, but that does not mean that there is no market for this computer. if i were properly settled and had a bit more means, i would be in market for this. small, fairly light, nice to look at, has option of ssd and gets rid of what i basically never use. the keyboard looks great and it has all the essentials for what i am usually using a computer for and for what a heap of others are probably using as well.

time to probably stop bashing... it is good, for some and for some, it is worthless - just like every other product on the market. for me, i could not deal with a macpro no matter how nice it is. i would love the power, but i move house every... well very often. it is nice for apple to have finally brought us a beauty that will i am sure just like the ipod nano be the first step in a new and boundless direction. cheers

tstarks33
Jan 28, 2008, 10:12 AM
MBA's are overpriced and underpowered, get over it. If you wish to fall for Steve's tricks, then go ahead, but don't pretend that the machine is something it's not. It's thin... that's it.

zeiter
Jan 28, 2008, 10:21 AM
is it me or the guy @ cnet.com is pretty annoying when he does his review...looks like he thinks he knows everything with is ugly not trendy style..sorry for bashing him..on just woke up on the wrong side of the bed i guess...

mrJnC
Jan 28, 2008, 10:22 AM
Until the MBA has a proper graphics chip like the MBP, it will forever be "speed-challenged".

HLdan
Jan 28, 2008, 10:33 AM
Until the MBA has a proper graphics chip like the MBP, it will forever be "speed-challenged".

Well, you can say the same thing about the Macbook then.
In fact you say the same thing about the Mac mini.
In fact you say that the MBP will be speed challenged against the Mac Pro since you can't change the graphics chip.

Every one of Apple's computers is made for SOMEONE.
Posters like you need to get off their high horse and stop acting like, "IF IT'S NOT FOR ME IT'S FOR NO ONE".
"IF I CAN'T USE IT NO ONE SHOULD".

Your post is pointless.:p

tstarks33
Jan 28, 2008, 10:33 AM
Until the MBA has a proper graphics chip like the MBP, it will forever be "speed-challenged".

Yeah, you're right. Every computer without a videocard is "speed-challenged" :rolleyes:

butterfly0fdoom
Jan 28, 2008, 10:35 AM
is it me or the guy @ cnet.com is pretty annoying when he does his review...looks like he thinks he knows everything with is ugly not trendy style..sorry for bashing him..on just woke up on the wrong side of the bed i guess...

At least he seems moderately cheerful unlike most of the other people that seem like they hate life and really don't know what they're talking about and sound like they're utterly clueless.

mashoutposse
Jan 28, 2008, 10:42 AM
MBA's are overpriced and underpowered, get over it. If you wish to fall for Steve's tricks, then go ahead, but don't pretend that the machine is something it's not. It's thin... that's it.


"Powerbooks are overpriced and underpowered, get over it. If you wish to fall for Steve's tricks, then go ahead, but don't pretend that the machine is something it's not. It's portable... that's it"

:p

Why can't people understand that there has always been a premium on increasingly smaller form factors? That's why no one compares a $3k MBP to a $3k Mac Pro.

The MBA is a marvel -- consider the fact that it is only 40% of the size of an MBP.

sturob
Jan 28, 2008, 10:45 AM
Wow, I know there are two camps on this whole thing . . . but . . .

When it comes right down to it, there are a looooooooooot of users for whom the MBA will represent way MORE power than they need.

Take me, for example. I'm a doctor, I work in an academic setting. I go to national meetings and give lectures on stuff. (Yes, stuff. ;)) I use my laptop for, get this . . . email, web surfing, and Keynote/PowerPoint. Oooooooooh. I have a good friend who's a lawyer. Want to know what he does with his laptop? Email, websurfing, and word processing. Ooooooooooh, again.

Yeah, I need to have an 8-core Harpertown 45nm Mac Pro with a Quadro graphics card and SAS 15,000-rpm drives to do that. Oh, right, and considering the fact that everyone in the US who needs a computer needs his/her laptop to be able to do 3D modeling of various complex molecules and run simulations of the effects of seismic activity on bridges, there's nobody for whom the MBA is an appropriate laptop. And let's not forget being able to run Unreal Tournament at 1000 fps.

GET REAL, folks.

:)

Stuart

clayj
Jan 28, 2008, 10:48 AM
The MBA is a marvel -- consider the fact that it is only 40% of the size of an MBP.Like I said here previously, on a power-to-weight-and-volume basis, the MBA is one of the most powerful machines Apple makes.

If you had to compare the various Mac desktop and notebook models to cars, the MBA would be like a Lotus Elise... a small two-seater with a high power-to-weight ratio and no trunk to speak of. It ain't an SUV, it ain't a coupe, and it ain't a supercar like a Ferrari or a Lamborghini.

mashoutposse
Jan 28, 2008, 10:51 AM
Like I said here previously, on a power-to-weight-and-volume basis, the MBA is one of the most powerful machines Apple makes.

If you had to compare the various Mac desktop and notebook models to cars, the MBA would be like a Lotus Elise... a small two-seater with a high power-to-weight ratio and no trunk to speak of. It ain't an SUV, it ain't a coupe, and it ain't a supercar like a Ferrari or a Lamborghini.

Yep.

Basically, if you want to know the towing capacity of that Exige, chances are it's not for you ;)

tstarks33
Jan 28, 2008, 10:52 AM
"Powerbooks are overpriced and underpowered, get over it. If you wish to fall for Steve's tricks, then go ahead, but don't pretend that the machine is something it's not. It's portable... that's it"

:p

Why can't people understand that there has always been a premium on increasingly smaller form factors? That's why no one compares a $3k MBP to a $3k Mac Pro.

The MBA is a marvel -- consider the fact that it is only 40% of the size of an MBP.

I totally understand the price premium for size. But that's just it - it's not THAT MUCH smaller than a MB to justify the extra cost, decreased features, and slower harddrive/proc. If we were talking about a 12 inch laptop, then I could get behind the price and specs. But at the same footprint as a macbook, I just can't get behind the product.

Sure, it's 40% the size of the MBP, but what, exactly, does that mean? How much smaller is it than the more powerful macbook?

I like the MBA solely for what it means for future apple laptops.

tstarks33
Jan 28, 2008, 10:59 AM
Like I said here previously, on a power-to-weight-and-volume basis, the MBA is one of the most powerful machines Apple makes.

If you had to compare the various Mac desktop and notebook models to cars, the MBA would be like a Lotus Elise... a small two-seater with a high power-to-weight ratio and no trunk to speak of. It ain't an SUV, it ain't a coupe, and it ain't a supercar like a Ferrari or a Lamborghini.

On a power-to-weight/volume basis? I thought I've heard it all...

One good thing about the MBA is listening to the crazy justifications its buyers tell themselves (and us), trying, apparently, to justify the cost.

Bottom line: MBA is the slowest computer apple sells. This is not in dispute. If the decreased size is enough to compensate for this fact, then enjoy your new macbook air :) If you just surf the net, any processor and hard drive would suffice anyways.

heatmiser
Jan 28, 2008, 11:02 AM
From the other thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4840415&postcount=53)...

On a power-to-weight/volume basis? I thought I've heard it all...

One good thing about the MBA is listening to the crazy justifications its buyers tell themselves (and us), trying, apparently, to justify the cost.

Bottom line: MBA is the slowest computer apple sells. This is not in dispute. If the decreased size is enough to compensate for this fact, then enjoy your new macbook air :) If you just surf the net, any processor and hard drive would suffice anyways.

There's a lot of denial among the MBA crowd, if you haven't noticed. It can't be compared to *anything* except to the Macbook and Macbook Pro, in which case the comparison must be made on "thickness" and "weight" instead of on, you know, anything else (like performance or price). They keep saying it's the "best in its class", and I guess they're right, because they've effectively placed it in a class of one. Every notebook that outperforms it in speed, features, weight, or performance can't be compared to it, and isn't meant to compete with it. I doubt even SJ would be this detached from reality, but apparently, lots of the MBA's defenders are.

clayj
Jan 28, 2008, 11:07 AM
On a power-to-weight/volume basis? I thought I've heard it all...Isn't that what a lot of people are griping about? "It's too small." "It doesn't have the ports I need/want." "It doesn't have a built-in optical drive." "It doesn't have a big enough hard drive."

We're talking about sacrificing power for small size. If that sacrifice is one that you (or others) are not willing to make, no one is forcing you to. And if you insist on having an überpowerful machine, there are choices that should make you happy.

One good thing about the MBA is listening to the crazy justifications its buyers tell themselves (and us), trying, apparently, to justify the cost.There's no justification required; neither you nor anyone else here is the boss of my bank account. Apple has made a new product which appeals to me (and others) and I've decided it will be a better choice for me than my current MBP.

Bottom line: MBA is the slowest computer apple sells. This is not in dispute. If the decreased size is enough to compensate for this fact, then enjoy your new macbook air :) If you just surf the net, any processor and hard drive would suffice anyways.Yes, it's the slowest machine Apple currently makes. Yes, this is not in dispute. And yes, thanks, I will enjoy my new MacBook Air.

I just fail to see why all the naysayers feel like they need to crap all over the MBA because of what they see to be its shortcomings. Honestly, it's like some of you are bitching because the Audi R8 doesn't seat 6 people; it's not meant to.

HLdan
Jan 28, 2008, 11:09 AM
Wow, I know there are two camps on this whole thing . . . but . . .

When it comes right down to it, there are a looooooooooot of users for whom the MBA will represent way MORE power than they need.

Take me, for example. I'm a doctor, I work in an academic setting. I go to national meetings and give lectures on stuff. (Yes, stuff. ;)) I use my laptop for, get this . . . email, web surfing, and Keynote/PowerPoint. Oooooooooh. I have a good friend who's a lawyer. Want to know what he does with his laptop? Email, websurfing, and word processing. Ooooooooooh, again.

GET REAL, folks.

:)

Stuart

Agreed, the reason you see such a battle on this here about the MBA not being powerful enough is because a lot of this forum is made up of pizza-faced, milk on the breath teenagers aged 13-18 that have nothing better to do than to play Bioshock or some other game and they can't see that the MBA is for a lot of people rather for business or personal.
These kids have zero responsibilities so a notebook of the AIR's caliber feels beneath them when it's actually far above them.

heatmiser
Jan 28, 2008, 11:11 AM
I just fail to see why all the naysayers feel like they need to crap all over the MBA because of what they see to be its shortcomings.

A lot of it is simply backlash toward people who've started acting as if the MB/Ps are Terribly Heavy Laptops that were Impossible To Bear before the Macbook Air came along. I can't count the number of threads where people have started recommending MBAs to high schoolers looking for all-in-one college laptops under the pretext that "business professionals don't need optical drives". As long as MBA fanboys keep treating the MBA as the second coming, plenty of people will be only too happy to pull them back into cold, hard, reality.

tstarks33
Jan 28, 2008, 11:18 AM
Isn't that what a lot of people are griping about? "It's too small." "It doesn't have the ports I need/want." "It doesn't have a built-in optical drive." "It doesn't have a big enough hard drive."

We're talking about sacrificing power for small size. If that sacrifice is one that you (or others) are not willing to make, no one is forcing you to. And if you insist on having an überpowerful machine, there are choices that should make you happy.

There's no justification required; neither you nor anyone else here is the boss of my bank account. Apple has made a new product which appeals to me (and others) and I've decided it will be a better choice for me than my current MBP.

Yes, it's the slowest machine Apple currently makes. Yes, this is not in dispute. And yes, thanks, I will enjoy my new MacBook Air.

I just fail to see why all the naysayers feel like they need to crap all over the MBA because of what they see to be its shortcomings. Honestly, it's like some of you are bitching because the Audi R8 doesn't seat 6 people; it's not meant to.

Hey buddy, my machine is not uberpowerful - I just have a black macbook! For the record, this is my first mac machine and I've had it for...almost a week now :) I was prepared to purchase ANY laptop Apple announced this month. However, for me, the MBA didn't cut it for many of the reasons covered in this thread and other threads. A particular issue I faced, and which you don't face, is that this is my only machine. As an only machine, the MBA doesn't cut it for me. For you, it would make more sense (though many of the other issues I have with the machine still exist) because it's not your only machine.

Sure, you wouldn't bitch that an Audi R8 doesn't seat 6 people, but wouldn't you bitch if it came with only a 120 horsepower engine or you couldn't change the tires unless you went to an Audi dealer (I know a great dealer in DC area if you need one)? I'd buy an R8 anyways, because I love Audi so much. Perhaps that's what's going on here. :)

ctt1wbw
Jan 28, 2008, 11:22 AM
Until the MBA has a proper graphics chip like the MBP, it will forever be "speed-challenged".


The Macbook Air has a better graphics card than my Dell Inspiron 1720. Does that make my Dell "speed-challenged"? It also has the same cpu.

clayj
Jan 28, 2008, 11:23 AM
A lot of it is simply backlash toward people who've started acting as if the MB/Ps are Terribly Heavy Laptops that were Impossible To Bear before the Macbook Air came along. I can't count the number of threads where people have started recommending MBAs to high schoolers looking for all-in-one college laptops under the pretext that "business professionals don't need optical drives". As long as MBA fanboys keep treating the MBA as the second coming, plenty of people will be only too happy to pull them back into cold, hard, reality.Well, I don't see the MBA as any sort of "second coming", and I've tried to be realistic about what it will do well and what it will NOT do well. I'm not a fanboy by any means, but I do like the MBA.

Should everyone buy an MBA? Absolutely not. Why? Because, as has been pointed out repeatedly, it is missing a LOT of what you expect to find in a notebook: No built-in optical drive, no built-in Ethernet, no FireWire, only one USB port, small hard drive, etc. It is clearly not a machine which a typical person should have as their only computer.

But if you are like me and have taken a close look at what the MBA offers, and if you've determined that you don't need a lot of that stuff, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with the MBA. It eliminates a lot of components that are, for many people, unnecessary and which add unneeded weight and volume to the machine.

Was my MBP heavy before? Not really. But I will appreciate how much lighter my MBA will be, and a lot of the stuff my MBP had (optical drive, FireWire port, extra USB ports, etc.) will not be missed.

AstrayCliche
Jan 28, 2008, 11:26 AM
I say: don't knock it until you've actually spent time with it. Is this a Mac vs PC argument, or what?

HLdan
Jan 28, 2008, 11:36 AM
On a power-to-weight/volume basis? I thought I've heard it all...

One good thing about the MBA is listening to the crazy justifications its buyers tell themselves (and us), trying, apparently, to justify the cost.

Bottom line: MBA is the slowest computer apple sells. This is not in dispute. If the decreased size is enough to compensate for this fact, then enjoy your new macbook air :) If you just surf the net, any processor and hard drive would suffice anyways.

I think you need to go back to computers 101. Surfing the net is all the Air's power is capable of? Tell me what the current owners of the old Powerbook G4's are doing? I happen to have one with 1.0Ghz PPC CPU and 256k L2 Cache with a 60GB 4200 rpm HDD and I do music recording with Reason, movie editing with Final Cut Express and do a lot of Photoshop work as well and encoding of avi files on a daily basis.

Let's see, the Air is 1.6 or 1.8 Ghz Dual Core system, 80 GB 4200 rpm HDD and 4MB L2 Cache. Hmm, your right those specs don't seem to hold up to what my Powerbook is capable of, guess it's only good for web surfing.:rolleyes:

tstarks33
Jan 28, 2008, 11:49 AM
I think you need to go back to computers 101. Surfing the net is all the Air's power is capable of? Tell me what the current owners of the old Powerbook G4's are doing? I happen to have one with 1.0Ghz PPC CPU and 256k L2 Cache with a 60GB 4200 rpm HDD and I do music recording with Reason, movie editing with Final Cut Express and do a lot of Photoshop work as well and encoding of avi files on a daily basis.

Let's see, the Air is 1.6 or 1.8 Ghz Dual Core system, 80 GB 4200 rpm HDD and 4MB L2 Cache. Hmm, your right those specs don't seem to hold up to what my Powerbook is capable of, guess it's only good for web surfing.:rolleyes:

And you need to review your 3rd grade notes on reading comprehension. Can you please show me where I say that surfing the net is all the MBA is capable of? Please don't post again if you are going to just take someone's post and twist it around and read into it whatever you want.

mashoutposse
Jan 28, 2008, 01:07 PM
I totally understand the price premium for size. But that's just it - it's not THAT MUCH smaller than a MB to justify the extra cost, decreased features, and slower harddrive/proc. If we were talking about a 12 inch laptop, then I could get behind the price and specs. But at the same footprint as a macbook, I just can't get behind the product.

The MBA is 43% the size of an MB.

Concerning the footprint, the reality is that there are generally three sizes: pocket-size (iPhone), bigger than pocket-size but smaller than a typical sheet of paper (MBA and most ultraportables fit here), bigger than a typical sheet of paper.

If the unit can't fit in your pocket but is smaller than a typical folder, there is very little PRACTICAL difference between the various possible footprints. No matter what size it is, a bag will be required and a smaller footprint doesn't help since you still need a bag big enough to fit your papers. That's why Apple's approach of building the smallest computer with the biggest possible screen and keyboard within the "paper as the benchmark" footprint makes the most sense. Thin will definitely be noticeable here.


On a power-to-weight/volume basis? I thought I've heard it all...

One good thing about the MBA is listening to the crazy justifications its buyers tell themselves (and us), trying, apparently, to justify the cost.

Bottom line: MBA is the slowest computer apple sells. This is not in dispute. If the decreased size is enough to compensate for this fact, then enjoy your new macbook air :) If you just surf the net, any processor and hard drive would suffice anyways.

OK.

The Sony TZ is the slowest computer Sony makes.

The Toshiba R500 is the slowest computer Toshiba makes.

The Lenovo X300 is the slowest computer Lenovo makes.

And on and on and on. Note that none of the above models are in any way value priced, either. No "crazy justifications;" that is simply the nature of the beast!

deezie
Jan 28, 2008, 01:32 PM
I have a 20" iMac G5, 2.0GHz PowerPC. How much slower should I expect the Macbook Air to be? Only programs I really need to use are iWork/Office, Matlab, and (hopefully) Starcraft 2.

clayj
Jan 28, 2008, 01:38 PM
I have a 20" iMac G5, 2.0GHz PowerPC. How much slower should I expect the Macbook Air to be? Only programs I really need to use are iWork/Office, Matlab, and (hopefully) Starcraft 2.I think you should expect the MBA to be faster than the G5 iMac.

Does Starcraft 2 require direct access to the CD/DVD drive? Because that could be a problem.

deezie
Jan 28, 2008, 01:46 PM
Well that's refreshing to hear. From all the complaints about how miserably slow it is compared to the MB and what-have-you, I expected the MBA to be slower than my iMac.

As far as SC2 goes, Blizzard just released a patch (finally) that allows you to play SC1 w/o the CD. So I doubt they'll require the DVD to play SC2.

I just hope I'll be able to handle the MBA as my only computer for a few months (giving my iMac to my parents and buying a new 24" iMac this summer).

kuwisdelu
Jan 28, 2008, 04:04 PM
I have a 20" iMac G5, 2.0GHz PowerPC. How much slower should I expect the Macbook Air to be? Only programs I really need to use are iWork/Office, Matlab, and (hopefully) Starcraft 2.

How much RAM do you have? If it's less than the MBA's 2GB, then the MBA will probably feel a little faster to you. Other than that, I wouldn't think you'd notice too much of a difference except maybe with Starcraft*. In many of the benchmark tests, the MBA scored only slightly less than the current MacBooks, which have faster CPUs than your G5, so except for heavy disk writing, the MBA should feel at least as fast.

I'm assuming you got the standard disk HD. If you got the SSD, then the MBA will feel quite a bit faster than your G5.

*Correct me if I'm wrong, but I *think* Starcraft isn't a Universal Binary yet, so if it's only written for PowerPC, then that will keep it from running too well, if at all, on the MBA, due to the Intel chip rather than the PPC chip. Check up on that, since I could be completely wrong.

butterfly0fdoom
Jan 28, 2008, 04:13 PM
Does Starcraft 2 require direct access to the CD/DVD drive? Because that could be a problem.

I think the bigger question is will SC2 run on GMA?

As far as SC2 goes, Blizzard just released a patch (finally) that allows you to play SC1 w/o the CD. So I doubt they'll require the DVD to play SC2.

Where's this patch I hear of? I desires it.

Consultant
Jan 28, 2008, 05:01 PM
I'm not holding out a lot of hope for the SSD model to benchmark significantly faster in real-world tasks. OTOH, it would be funny to see what the "performance is everything" MBA-haters would have to say if the SSD benchmarked faster than their fat MBP machines. I might even put off my purchase to see the benchmarks, and perhaps the SSD premium will drop a bit.

SSD drives are typically much faster than fast desktop Raptor 10k drives. Think about that.

And for anyone who are in the poor house and cannot afford cool toys:
The price of MBA is on par with other laptops in the class (Cnn.com)

deezie
Jan 28, 2008, 05:17 PM
Where's this patch I hear of? I desires it.

Patch 1.15.2

kockgunner
Jan 28, 2008, 10:47 PM
Of course the air is apple's slowest computer. All their other computers are fast! When you look at all the HPs and Toshibas at best buy, only 1-2 computers even have a 2.0 ghz C2D (as oppsed to SR 2.2 ghz C2D on the macbooks). Back to the air, all the other manufacuters' midrange models have 1.6 ghz amd turions and they dont even have 2 ghz of RAM. So actually, apple's ultraportable stacks up pretty well with other "desktop replacement" laptops. Apple's in a whole other league.

island
Jan 28, 2008, 10:57 PM
My reason for getting the Air is that I want a small Aluminum Apple, not some cheap plastic hunk of garbage Macbook.

Just like some people pay a premium for the Black Macbook which makes no sense to some people right?

:cool:

QCassidy352
Jan 28, 2008, 11:04 PM
Wow, I know there are two camps on this whole thing . . . but . . .

When it comes right down to it, there are a looooooooooot of users for whom the MBA will represent way MORE power than they need.

Take me, for example. I'm a doctor, I work in an academic setting. I go to national meetings and give lectures on stuff. (Yes, stuff. ;)) I use my laptop for, get this . . . email, web surfing, and Keynote/PowerPoint. Oooooooooh. I have a good friend who's a lawyer. Want to know what he does with his laptop? Email, websurfing, and word processing. Ooooooooooh, again.

/snip

GET REAL, folks.

:)

Stuart

Excellent post. :)

No doubt about it, you get less for your money with the Air than with the MB.

OTOH, the same could be said about the iPod Nano vs. the Classic. And I don't see anyone making this complaint about the Nano.

The Air is simply the Nano of laptops. Nothing more, nothing less. It will have a market because of its limited size and weight compared to the MB.

Ditto. :)


I've been saying this for 2 weeks now, but I'm going to keep saying it as long as people keep complaining about the MBA - design is a feature. It's a feature you pay for on your house, your car, your furniture, your clothes, your ipods, and nearly everything else. Maybe the MBA's design isn't worth the tradeoffs to SOME people, but it clearly is to others.

In short... stop assuming that your needs are everyone's needs... and start realizing that design is a feature!

(and I say this as someone who won't buy a MBA because it wouldn't meet my needs... but that doesn't mean it's not great for people with different needs!)

Capt. Morgan
Jan 29, 2008, 05:39 PM
A lot of it is simply backlash toward people who've started acting as if the MB/Ps are Terribly Heavy Laptops that were Impossible To Bear before the Macbook Air came along.

All this tells me is that you really don't travel very much.

I can't count the number of threads where people have started recommending MBAs to high schoolers looking for all-in-one college laptops under the pretext that "business professionals don't need optical drives". As long as MBA fanboys keep treating the MBA as the second coming, plenty of people will be only too happy to pull them back into cold, hard, reality.

Oh, I have my reservations about the performance trade-offs with the MBA. But then again, I'm upgrading from a 7 year old Graphite iMac - the MBA should be plenty fast. But I am not really sure what FireWire is used for, so I'm probably not as computer-studly as you are. But half the weight and volume of the MBP are pretty compelling to someone that travels 16-20 days a month. I think I'll wait to get my hands on one at the Apple store ... hear the first buyer reports ... and see the SSD benchmarks. But it I find it lacking, I'll probably just buy a new desktop computer.

heatmiser
Jan 29, 2008, 05:44 PM
All this tells me is that you really don't travel very much.


I travel quite often, and the Macbook works for me. I flew in December, took the train this January, and will be flying again on the first of February. Sorry, you'll have to find another excuse. My point stands. Get the MBA if you want, but don't pretend for a second the MB/Ps were Unbearably Heavy Laptops only Musclemen Could Use. That's just disingenuous.

kuwisdelu
Jan 29, 2008, 06:24 PM
All this tells me is that you really don't travel very much.

I travel quite often, and the Macbook works for me. I flew in December, took the train this January, and will be flying again on the first of February. Sorry, you'll have to find another excuse. My point stands. Get the MBA if you want, but don't pretend for a second the MB/Ps were Unbearably Heavy Laptops only Musclemen Could Use. That's just disingenuous.

You silly people. It doesn't have to be black or white. Neither are MacBooks and MacBook Pros extremely heavy, nor is the difference in weight in the MBA completely without purpose. I carry a MacBook with me to all my classes at university, and while it's no problem in general, less weight would mean a much healthier shoulder on my part; it's not something I'd complain about, but having an MBA is the difference between having room in my bag to bring a textbook to do homework during breaks in class or not. Is that kind of thing worth it to me to get an MBA? For some people it is; for some people it's a resounding "no." For me? I don't know; my MacBook is still new, and I'm not in the market for a new laptop right now, so it's not something I think about much. Maybe when rev 2 comes around.

Edit: I just noticed..."it doesn't have to be black or white"....MacBooks come in black and white, while the MacBook Air comes in neither :D I amuse myself sometimes. Okay, I'll go away now.... /nerdiness

RedTomato
Feb 3, 2008, 04:14 PM
http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/apple-macbook-air-core/4505-3121_7-32818756.html?tag=bubbl_3

OT: Check out the video -- I was :eek: when he closed the Air that first time :eek: That is why I'm replacing my MBP with this! :apple:

My macbook starts up even faster than that when I open it. That's with mail.app open and Firefox with about 20 tabs open.

4GB of matched RAM in my MB really helps. Before I added the ram last week, it was a lot slower to start up. Switching apps took ages, now it's instant.

So thank me, I just saved you $2900. For $100, you can add 4GB to your MBP.