Obama Wins South Carolina!!!

[halfprep455]

MSNBC and CNN project Obama to win SC. Exit pools also show that Obama got 25% of the white vote and over 50% of white people under 30. He also got over 85% of the African-American vote. Seems like he i s not just the black candidate after all! Hope this momentum carries over to super Tuesday!


OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA!

[leekohler]

Yes! Go Obama! This is great to see. Let's hope this continues into Florida.

[Peace]

Looks like I vote green party this year.Obama gets as much money from PAC's as Hillary does.

[abijnk]

Yes! Go Obama! This is great to see. Let's hope this continues into Florida.

Well, I dunno about Florida (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500275.html?hpid=topnews), but come on Super Tuesday!

I am really interested in seeing the spread here...

EDIT: Didn't see this post :)
Looks like I vote green party this year.Obama gets as much money from PAC's as Hillary does.

I don't think anyone can say that either Hillary or Obama will be the winner yet.
OT, who is the green party candidate this year?

[yg17]

Wirelessly posted (SonyEricssonW580i/R6BC Browser/NetFront/3.3 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

Florida doesn't have any Dem delegates. And go Barack!

[MacNut]

Hillary will probably take most of the Northeast.

[leekohler]

Wirelessly posted (SonyEricssonW580i/R6BC Browser/NetFront/3.3 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

Florida doesn't have any Dem delegates. And go Barack!

Well, somebody's voting in Florida according to the Chicago Tribune:

"The race quickly shifts to Florida," Clinton communications director Howard Wolfson said before the polls closed Saturday, "the last state to vote before Super Tuesday on Feb. 5."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-obama-wins26,0,6857236.story

[yg17]

I had heard that Florida lost their delegates....did something change?

[Peace]

Well, I dunno about Florida (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500275.html?hpid=topnews), but come on Super Tuesday!

I am really interested in seeing the spread here...

EDIT: Didn't see this post :)


I don't think anyone can say that either Hillary or Obama will be the winner yet.
OT, who is the green party candidate this year?


http://www.gp.org/index.php

[zioxide]

Huge victory for Obama.. he got more than twice as many votes as Hillary.

He got a big victory in Iowa, extremely close 2nd in NH, close 2nd in NV, and a huge win in SC. Looking good so far.

[yg17]

Huge victory for Obama.. he got more than twice as many votes as Hillary.

He got a big victory in Iowa, extremely close 2nd in NH, close 2nd in NV, and a huge win in SC. Looking good so far.

He got more delegates in NV, therefore, I'd say he won it.

[clevin]

well. good for him, hopefully American voter population as a whole is brave enough for a minority president.

And I hope Obama finds an effective way responding to negative tactics. He can't keep that image of "above partisanship" when GOP attacks, probably soon.

[MikeTheC]

I'm going to take a moment out now and try to be as sincere and serious as I can be.

Anyone who's read anything I've written within the PRSI area of MacRumors.com knows I'm not a liberal or a Democrat, and can probably reasonably easily guess I will not be voting for Barack Obama in the Florida primaries this Tuesday. However, having said all that...

I would really like to say how Mr. Obama, even though he's tarred with the fact that he's Muslim and black, has on his own merits overcome all of that, and to me he's neither of those two things, but rather he's simply a very intelligent, well-spoken, and to all intents and purposes stable gentleman. Were he conservative and otherwise politically "in my camp", I would not otherwise hesitate to vote for the guy.

Certainly if I had to choose between him and Mrs. Clinton, I'd pick Obama in a moment. He doesn't carry the baggage with him that Hillary does, and he just seems to be a more sensible, emotionally stable guy. Period.

For his sake, I hope he wins the Democratic nomination because I think Democrats deserve someone better than the other two alternatives.

[zioxide]

he's Muslim

No, he's Christian.

[MacNut]

I agree that he is the less evil of the 3. I think an Obama McCain match up could be entertaining.

[halfprep455]

I think the best race would be Obama/Chuck Hagel or Mike Bloomberg vs. Romney/Huckabee. The race would easily be a landslide for Obama! Hell Obama vs any GOP candidate would probably be a landslide. Just look at S.C. , Obama received MORE votes then McCain and Huckabee combined! In one of the reddest states in the coutry!

[yg17]

I read some other good news on DailyKos just now (Yes, I know it's anything but a neutral source, but these are cold hard voter turnout numbers, they can't really be fudged). About 50,000 more people voted in the SC Dem primary than the repub one. SC, a state that's always been about as red as you can get, has more people voting for Democrats. This could really be a blow to the republicans in the general election. They're going to have to spend time and money in a state that historically, they didn't even need to bother with to win.

[it5five]

I would really like to say how Mr. Obama, even though he's tarred with the fact that he's Muslim and black...

I know it's been pointed out once already, but I'd really like to know where you got the idea that Obama is Muslim. Seriously?

[biturbomunkie]

... where you got the idea that Obama is Muslim. Seriously?

i thought that was interesting as well. perhaps b/c MikeTheC's writing style reminds me of another MR fellow, who mentioned that s/he was a poli sci student and used to work on Capitol Hill.

[leekohler]

I'm going to take a moment out now and try to be as sincere and serious as I can be.

Anyone who's read anything I've written within the PRSI area of MacRumors.com knows I'm not a liberal or a Democrat, and can probably reasonably easily guess I will not be voting for Barack Obama in the Florida primaries this Tuesday. However, having said all that...

I would really like to say how Mr. Obama, even though he's tarred with the fact that he's Muslim and black, has on his own merits overcome all of that, and to me he's neither of those two things, but rather he's simply a very intelligent, well-spoken, and to all intents and purposes stable gentleman. Were he conservative and otherwise politically "in my camp", I would not otherwise hesitate to vote for the guy.

Certainly if I had to choose between him and Mrs. Clinton, I'd pick Obama in a moment. He doesn't carry the baggage with him that Hillary does, and he just seems to be a more sensible, emotionally stable guy. Period.

For his sake, I hope he wins the Democratic nomination because I think Democrats deserve someone better than the other two alternatives.

You know what? I'm becoming less impressed with you every time you post. You have a fascinating talent for ignoring facts. Obama isn't a muslim- he's Christian. Not that it should matter, but when people like you try to distort the facts to fit your POV, it really gets under my skin.

[Thomas Veil]

I'm going to be open-minded and assume Mike was told by somebody that Obama is a Muslim and he believed it. Lord knows there are enough smear-merchants out there trying to make both covert and overt connections between Obama and Muslims, trying to water the seeds of fear and bigotry, no doubt. But the rest of Mike's post was rather complimentary of Obama, so I'm going to assume it wasn't a deliberate misrepresentation of him. (Though I have to say, I wouldn't have used the words "tarred with the fact that he's Muslim and black". It's not the racial connotations of "tar", it's the idea that being Muslim and black might be automatic detriments.)

I had heard that Florida lost their delegates....did something change?Not that I know of.

About 50,000 more people voted in the SC Dem primary than the repub one. SC, a state that's always been about as red as you can get, has more people voting for Democrats. This could really be a blow to the republicans in the general election.That's great. And let's not forget Iowa went like that too: twice as many Democrats turned out to vote than Republicans.

There's no guarantee, of course, but this has signs of looking pretty ugly for the GOP this fall.

[leekohler]

I'm going to be open-minded and assume Mike was told by somebody that Obama is a Muslim and he believed it. Lord knows there are enough smear-merchants out there trying to make both covert and overt connections between Obama and Muslims, trying to water the seeds of fear and bigotry, no doubt. But the rest of Mike's post was rather complimentary of Obama, so I'm going to assume it wasn't a deliberate misrepresentation of him. (Though I have to say, I wouldn't have used the words "tarred with the fact that he's Muslim and black". It's not the racial connotations of "tar", it's the idea that being Muslim and black might be automatic detriments.)

OK- maybe I was a bit harsh- sorry to Mike. However, if one is going to make such strong statements, it's best to check the facts first.

[IJ Reilly]

Buried in the South Carolina primary exit poll numbers is an interesting statistic: Obama won voters who decided within the last three days of the campaign. I'd like to think this is a cautionary note for the Clinton campaign that voters are not warming to their not-so-subtle race baiting tactics.

[themadchemist]

Looks like I vote green party this year.Obama gets as much money from PAC's as Hillary does.

Why vote green? You could stay at home and save the gas, if all you plan to do is throw your vote away.

[hulugu]

Looks like I vote green party this year.Obama gets as much money from PAC's as Hillary does.

Receiving money from a Political Action Committee shouldn't automatically discount a politician. After all:


Arizona League of Conservation Voters
Coastal Conservation Assn
Friends of the Earth
Green Worlds Coalition Fund
League of Conservation Voters
Montana Conservation Voters
Ocean Champions
Oregon Natural Resources Council
PawPAC
Republicans for Environmental Protection
Sierra Club
Wild PAC


All of these are environmental PACs. In 2000 and 2004, the Sierra Club not only gave money, but also endorsed the Democratic candidate. Now, obviously not all PACs are created equal, but I don't think it's fair to hang a politician because someone gave them money. Rather, you can judge a politician by who they do and do not accept money from.

[CRAZYBUBBA]

I agree everyone seems to think that obama doesn't take lobbyist money.. this is not true.

in any case it looks like McCain/obama will be the big two at this point, but it could all change.. fast.

[hulugu]

I agree everyone seems to think that obama doesn't take lobbyist money.. this is not true.

in any case it looks like McCain/obama will be the big two at this point, but it could all change.. fast.

That wasn't my point at all. My point was that "lobbyist" money isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Again, it depends on who you think is working for your interests or against them and by having that information you can make a better decision about whether or not someone like Obama will work for your interests. I send money to the Sierra Club and they operate as a PAC, thus they are working in my interests when they support a particular candidate.

[Lyle]

... Hopefully American voter population as a whole is brave enough for a minority president.So if someone were not to vote for Obama, that would indicate that they're not "brave enough for a minority president"?

One of the (many) things that has impressed me about Obama is that he has, for the most part, avoided playing the race card. I hope that he doesn't resort to those tactics even if his supporters do.

[clevin]

No, he's Christian.

and this is an honest mistake, now imagine the real attacks from GOP, "Barack Hussein Omaba from an Islamic school..and drug user...." Its sure not honest, but maybe really effective to some ppl.

So if someone were not to vote for Obama, that would indicate that they're not "brave enough for a minority president"?


Its better to argue how much (percentage wise) race is a problem for some voters than accusing him 100% racist.

I don't think voters judge candidates purely on one thing. Race related issue, such as "worry about electability" are up there as well.

All GOP ppl simply praise Omaba right now, so are they indeed so kind to care for democrats? I don't believe it for a second.

[IJ Reilly]

So if someone were not to vote for Obama, that would indicate that they're not "brave enough for a minority president"?

One of the (many) things that has impressed me about Obama is that he has, for the most part, avoided playing the race card. I hope that he doesn't resort to those tactics even if his supporters do.

I don't think "brave enough" means very much in this context. Can we not admit that a great many Americans would never vote for a man of color?

[Lyle]

I don't think "brave enough" means very much in this context. Can we not admit that a great many Americans would never vote for a man of color?Yes, I'm brave enough to admit that there are Americans who would never vote for a black presidential candidate, regardless of his political positions. I do take offense at the implication (not yours) that someone who happens not to vote for Obama must be making that decision based on the color of his skin.

All GOP ppl simply praise Omaba right now, so are they indeed so kind to care for democrats? I don't believe it for a second.Some Republicans (including myself) have praised Obama for various reasons, but most or all of them disagree with one or more of his political positions. I lost your train of thought after the comma, though, so I'm unable to respond to your question other than to say, yes, I "care" (?) for Democrats even though I disagree with some of their ideas.

[IJ Reilly]

Yes, I'm brave enough to admit that there are Americans who would never vote for a black presidential candidate, regardless of his political positions. I do take offense at the implication (not yours) that someone who happens not to vote for Obama must be making that decision based on the color of his skin.

I'm not going to try to answer for someone else's point, but I think the issue here is with the words "brave enough." I'd probably revise that to "grown up enough" -- and to be clear, I'm talking about the nation as a whole. My answer to that question is, "I don't know." But I think it's worth finding out. If the answer was in the affirmative I believe this would be a great moment for the nation, in and of itself.

[themadchemist]

All GOP ppl simply praise Omaba right now, so are they indeed so kind to care for democrats? I don't believe it for a second.

The assumption here is that Republicans have some special insight into the American electorate over that of Democrats. Bad assumption.

Also, why do you keep misspelling his name?

[freeny]

Buried in the South Carolina primary exit poll numbers is an interesting statistic: Obama won voters who decided within the last three days of the campaign. I'd like to think this is a cautionary note for the Clinton campaign that voters are not warming to their not-so-subtle race baiting tactics.
From what I remember from the last debate it was Obama himself that pointed out that he was black.

something said to the point of "we have a woman, an African American and... and... John Edwards in the race" (not actual quote but what I can remember..)

[IJ Reilly]

From what I remember from the last debate it was Obama himself that pointed out that he was black.

something said to the point of "we have a woman, an African American and... and... John Edwards in the race" (not actual quote but what I can remember..)

Otherwise, nobody would have noticed.

I am referring to Bill Clinton's effort to spin the Obama win in South Carolina by referring to Jesse Jackson. The clear message is that Obama is this year's black candidate and that he should not otherwise be taken seriously. Ugly stuff.

[MikeTheC]

OK- maybe I was a bit harsh- sorry to Mike. However, if one is going to make such strong statements, it's best to check the facts first.
Good to hear again from you, Lee. As always, thanks for the warm, kind thoughts. :eek: :p :)

Thomas said it right: Barack was represented to me as being Muslim. Obviously I was in error on that point in my previous post, and I humbly apologize.

[leekohler]

Good to hear again from you, Lee. As always, thanks for the warm, kind thoughts. :eek: :p :)

Thomas said it right: Barack was represented to me as being Muslim. Obviously I was in error on that point in my previous post, and I humbly apologize.

Haha! That's OK. We all make mistakes-trust me, I'm the king of that.

[solvs]

Looks like I vote green party this year.Obama gets as much money from PAC's as Hillary does.
While I'm not a fan of any of the Dem candidates really, do you really want another Repub in the WH? You're welcome to your vote and all, but this could be a close one. They'd certainly be better than the GOP at this point, even if not great right?

I do take offense at the implication (not yours) that someone who happens not to vote for Obama must be making that decision based on the color of his skin.
How did you get that idea? Just because we are advanced enough to maybe vote for someone of color for once, doesn't mean just because you don't vote for him that's the only reason. :confused: It's just that more people would now vote for him who otherwise wouldn't have solely based on his color. Of course there are also people who would vote for him just because he is black, and that isn't right either. But as long as you aren't one of those who won't vote for him just because he happens to be black, I don't think he was talking about you.

[luminosity]

Christopher Hitchens had a column for Slate recently on this subject:

How can one equal Bill Clinton for thuggery and opportunism when it comes to the so-called "race card"? And where does one even start with the breathtaking nastiness of his own conduct, and that of his supporters, in the last week? Barack Obama carries South Carolina having made no sectarian appeal to any specific kind of voter, and the best Clinton can say is that this is no better than Jesse Jackson managed to do. Really? Did Jackson come south having already got himself elected the senator from Illinois? And, come to think of it, was Jackson so much to be despised and sneered at when he was needed as Clinton's "confessor," along with Billy Graham, during the squalor of impeachment?

This calculated willingness to shop on both sides of the street of racial politics was actually analyzed quite shrewdly by Dick Morris, the former consigliere of the gruesome twosome, in conversation with Sean Hannity last week. The Clintons, he thought, would be quite happy to lose big to the "black vote" in South Carolina. It would enable them to signal that they were the ones to stem the flow of the color tide. Morris' host protested that this seemed a touch cynical. Morris jovially assured him that he knew the people he was talking about.
As indeed he did. It was Hillary Clinton who insisted on recalling Morris to the embattled White House, notwithstanding his various disgraces and notwithstanding the fact that he had been the adviser and strategist for Jesse Helms of North Carolina. Why am I saying "notwithstanding"? It was because he had performed so well for Helms, including helping him with the famous "white hands" ad that showed a white man crumpling up a letter that told him of preference for "minorities" in hiring, that Morris was thought of by the then-first lady as such a guru.

I never quite understand how the Clintons' initial exploitation of racism was overlooked the first time around and has been airbrushed from the record since. After falling behind in the New Hampshire primary in 1992, and after being caught lying about the affair with Gennifer Flowers to which he later confessed under oath, Clinton left the campaign trail and flew home to Arkansas to give the maximum publicity to his decision to sign a death warrant for Ricky Ray Rector. Rector was a black inmate on death row who had shot himself in the head after committing a double murder and, instead of dying as a result, had achieved the same effect as a lobotomy would have done. He never understood the charge against him or the sentence. After being served his last meal, he left the pecan pie on the side of the tray, as he told the guards who came to take him to the execution chamber, "for later." Several police and prison-officer witnesses expressed extreme queasiness at this execution of a gravely impaired man, and the prison chaplain, Dennis Pigman, later resigned from the prison service. The whole dismal and cruel and pathetic story was told by Marshall Frady in a long essay in The New Yorker in 1993 and is also recounted in a chapter titled "Chameleon in Black and White" by your humble servant in his book No One Left To Lie To. For now, I just ask you to imagine what would have been said if a Republican governor, falling in the polls, had gone out of his way to execute a mentally incompetent African-American prisoner.
Or leaf back, if you will, to the New York Times of March 23, 1992, and the jolly headline, "Club Where Clinton Has Golfed Retains Ways of Old South." Yes indeedy, the Country Club of Little Rock had 500 members, all of them white, and the aspirant candidate had himself photographed there more than once until Jerry Brown made an issue of it. It was then announced by Clinton's people that "the staff and facilities" at the club were "integrated"—a pretty way of stating that the toilets were cleaned by black Arkansans. Yet all this was forgiven by credulous liberals who were sure that they had discovered a New Democrat who was a Southerner to boot.
Many of these same people do not like it now that they see similar two-faced tactics being employed against "one of their own." Well, tough. And many of the most prominent and eloquent black columnists—Bob Herbert, Colbert King, Eugene Robinson—are also acting shocked. It's a bit late. I have to say that Bob Herbert shocked even me by quoting Andrew Young, who said that his pal Clinton was "every bit as black as Barack" because he'd screwed more black chicks. How is Hillary Clinton, or Chelsea Clinton, supposed to feel on hearing that little endorsement? One gets the impression, though, at least from the wife, that anything is OK as long as it works, or even has a chance of working. When Toni Morrison described Clinton as "black" on the basis of his promiscuity and dysfunction and uncertainty about his parentage, she did more than cater to the white racist impression of the African-American male. She tapped into the sort of self-hatred that is evidently more common than we might choose to think. Say what you will about Sen. Obama (and I say that he's got much more charisma than guts), he is miles above this sort of squalor and has decent manners. Say what you will about the Clintons, you cannot acquit them of having played the race card several times in both directions and of having done so in the most vulgar and unscrupulous fashion. Anyone who thinks that this equals "change" is a fool, and an easily fooled fool at that.

A bit lengthy, but well worth the read.

http://www.slate.com/id/2182938/

[Cleverboy]

Of course there are also people who would vote for him just because he is black, and that isn't right either. But as long as you aren't one of those who won't vote for him just because he happens to be black, I don't think he was talking about you.There is certainly something to "identity" politics. People voting for people that look like them, or have the same religion, or the same party, or the same cultural background, or gender... our votes being cast for as much who a person IS than what they say. It is what it is at the end of the day.

While I adamantly wouldn't vote for a candidate because of his race, that fact does create an enhanced affinity for a candidate I already like. I almost have to make sure I don't overdo my "counter" balance and ignore him on the basis that as a black man, people will see my support for Obama and think "Oh, you like him 'cause he's black". I almost want to support someone else just to not have someone hang that boondoggle around my neck.

Similarly, I was listening to two women on BloggingHeads discussing Hillary (http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/7929?&in=00:02:34&out=00:05:30)... and both of them couldn't deny that a large aspect of Hillary's appeal (Race and gender in today's politics (06:39) (http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/7929?&in=00:02:34&out=00:05:30)), is the very notion that she could be the first woman President. They spoke about women and a visceral gut reaction to that reality, and its something they didn't quite feel they could step away from entirely. As a gender issue, it works both for Hillary and against her, but that's part of it. If I didn't vote for Obama, I'd be voting for Edwards. I found him to be almost as inspiring as Obama, without as much pragmatism and vision. In general, I basically believe we have a strong need for inspiring leadership and bold new ideas on how to overcome our challenges. For what its worth, I get excited about ideas like having a CTO cabinet position. I love the fact that Obama spoke to U.S. auto-makers specifically about fuel efficiency and flex-fuel options. I think that's as important as the energy issue.

~ CB