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bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 01:43 PM
i currently have a 400mhz sawtooth.

i want to upgrade to leopard.

i found out the radeon 9800 128 is sawtooth/leopard compatible the cost is anywhere from $150-200

sonnet 1.8 $269 or power logic 1.6 $219

i currently have 1g ram but the sawtooth could support 2g

$349-400 for a leopard mackitty

thoughts?? has anyone upgraded? if so, was it worth it?



Eidorian
Jan 27, 2008, 01:45 PM
You're already in the Mac mini price range there. You'd be better off with one of those.

bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 01:48 PM
You're already in the Mac mini price range there. You'd be better off with one of those.

why would i want a gamecube?? the video capabilities wouldnt compare

motulist
Jan 27, 2008, 01:48 PM
g4 cpu upgrade worth it????

No. Next question?

Cromulent
Jan 27, 2008, 01:50 PM
why would i want a gamecube?? the video capabilities wouldnt compare

They'd be as good as a G4 if not better. Seriously, the added speed of the Mac Mini would be a much better investment. Plus the fact that it is Intel and not PPC and you have very little reason to keep the G4 hanging around.

bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 01:51 PM
why would i want a gamecube?? the video capabilities wouldnt compare

last i checked for a mini 1.8 starts at 600... not including memory/hdd upgrades

bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 01:57 PM
No. Next question?

u must be an apple employee..

the question is aimed at those who have done it..

349 for a 1.6 1g 80hhd Radeon 9800

make it 369 for a 1.6 2g machine..

1 gig can be had for 20 bucks at the local swap meet..

motulist
Jan 27, 2008, 02:02 PM
last i checked for a mini 1.8 starts at 600... not including memory/hdd upgrades

Hard drives and memory are dirt cheap. But regardless, there's WAY more to a computer's speed than cpu mhz + video card + memory + hard disk. There's system bus speed, motherboard, cpu architecture, and more, all of which are not upgradable on a G4 and wouldn't be cost effective even if they were.

You're not the first person to ask on these forums if upgrade cards are worth it, and it's almost a total consensus on MR forums that upgrade cards are not worth it.

u must be an apple employee..

the question is aimed at those who have done it..



I have done it in the past, and I'm telling you that it's not worth it. If you don't want to listen to people's advice then why did you ask for it?

kirkbross
Jan 27, 2008, 02:03 PM
In addition to motulist, I speak for the next 5,000 people who answer this -- do NOT waste $1 upgrading your current Mac. It's 9 years old (http://xlr8yourmac.com/G4ZONE/sawtooth/) and that's about four lifetimes in computer years. Save an additional $200 and get a used G5 or a Mac Mini.

If you have some sort of emotional attachment to the old Mac, keep it in the closet for a few years for posterity.

Cromulent
Jan 27, 2008, 02:03 PM
u must be an apple employee..

the question is aimed at those who have done it..

349 for a 1.6 1g 80hhd Radeon 9800

make it 369 for a 1.6 2g machine..

1 gig can be had for 20 bucks at the local swap meet..

It isn't worth it.

bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 02:04 PM
last i checked for a mini 1.8 starts at 600... not including memory/hdd upgrades

lets see i checked out apple.com

a mini mac 1.83 2g ram 120 hdd would cost $824 and thats machine doesnt have the 9800 pro card

i could add several hdds/dual burners to this mac which i already converted to a modded atx case.. its clear with lights.. sooo pur t.. so me.. choice abound

jwdawso
Jan 27, 2008, 02:05 PM
Hey don't be so negative towards the replies - you asked for thoughts, and so you got them. :)

If all you have is $400, then it's a big upgrade. But do you have to also buy leopard? But if you can afford to pick up any Intel Mini, you are way ahead. Plus you now have 2 Macs, and whatever hard drive space you have on your G4. I have a Quicksilver 867Mhz, and have refused the temptation of upgrading the processor. I have a Mac Mini Core Solo 1.5Ghz, that is ready to be upgraded to a C2D soon.

Eidorian
Jan 27, 2008, 02:06 PM
lets see i checked out apple.com

a mini mac 1.83 2g ram 120 hdd would cost $824 and thats machine doesnt have the 9800 pro card

i could add several hdds/dual burners to this mac which i already converted to a modded atx case.. its clear with lights.. sooo pur t.. so me.. choice aboundIf you're going to ignore our advice then carry on with your purchase.

The Mac mini isn't in a refurb page right now but it does hover around $499-549 when it shows up. The Mac mini G4 can be found for $350-400 online as well.

I sure hope you enjoy upgrading a nearly 10 year old computer.

bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 02:10 PM
I have done it in the past, and I'm telling you that it's not worth it. If you don't want to listen to people's advice then why did you ask for it?




(oops sorry for not using multi quote)

first off you didnt state you've tried it..

i understand bus speed architect.. fact is though i run one program at a time.. i dont do major editing.. sounds like mass propaganda on this board.. they all said the earth was flat too.. and how many ppl actually use all the power that their computers possess.. i'd say 10%.. the hardcore core just cause and the professionals

sounds like someone paid a lil too much for something they dont use.. ive seen bench marks where a g4 is just as fast as a g5 in certain apps..if not faster.. explain that..

surflordca
Jan 27, 2008, 02:15 PM
lets see i checked out apple.com

a mini mac 1.83 2g ram 120 hdd would cost $824 and thats machine doesnt have the 9800 pro card

i could add several hdds/dual burners to this mac which i already converted to a modded atx case.. its clear with lights.. sooo pur t.. so me.. choice abound

g4 cpu upgrade worth it????
i currently have a 400mhz sawtooth.

i want to upgrade to leopard.

i found out the radeon 9800 128 is sawtooth/leopard compatible the cost is anywhere from $150-200

sonnet 1.8 $269 or power logic 1.6 $219

i currently have 1g ram but the sawtooth could support 2g

$349-400 for a leopard mackitty

thoughts?? has anyone upgraded? if so, was it worth it?




In your other post you find it all right to spend $800 for an upgrade on OLD hardware but $824 is to much for new stuff?
You don't want advice for other people, you just want someone to say that spending money on your upgrade is worth it. IT'S NOT...

Cromulent
Jan 27, 2008, 02:18 PM
first off you didnt state you've tried it..

i understand bus speed architect.. fact is though i run one program at a time.. i dont do major editing.. sounds like mass propaganda on this board.. they all said the earth was flat too.. and how many ppl actually use all the power that their computers possess.. i'd say 10%.. the hardcore core just cause and the professionals

sounds like someone paid a lil too much for something they dont use.. ive seen bench marks where a g4 is just as fast as a g5 in certain apps..if not faster.. explain that..

We are not talking about G5s though, we are talking about Core 2 Duos. Which are faster.

It really is not worth it.

bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 02:20 PM
g4 cpu upgrade worth it????
i currently have a 400mhz sawtooth.

i want to upgrade to leopard.

i found out the radeon 9800 128 is sawtooth/leopard compatible the cost is anywhere from $150-200

sonnet 1.8 $269 or power logic 1.6 $219

i currently have 1g ram but the sawtooth could support 2g

$349-400 for a leopard mackitty

thoughts?? has anyone upgraded? if so, was it worth it?




In your other post you find it all right to spend $800 for an upgrade on OLD hardware but $824 is to much for new stuff?
You don't want advice for other people, you just want someone to say that spending money on your upgrade is worth it. IT'S NOT...

this is a propaganda board.. ur post makes it clear..

where do you get me upgrading my g4 at the cost of 800 dollars??

369 < 800... umm ok..

you ppl shouldnt hate.. the g4 it a tribute to apple..built ahead of its time... 9 years later i could have something that would eat a mini alive..

Cromulent
Jan 27, 2008, 02:23 PM
you ppl shouldnt hate.. the g4 it a tribute to apple..built ahead of its time... 9 years later i could have something that would eat a mini alive..

I don't know where you are getting this information. The Mac Mini will be faster than the G4.

motulist
Jan 27, 2008, 02:25 PM
ive seen bench marks where a g4 is just as fast as a g5 in certain apps..if not faster.. explain that..

I don't need to explain it to someone who's acting like a snot, because it's already been explained a billion and one times all over the net, which makes you either a troll, an idiot, or too lazy to do a google search. Take your pick.

Do us all a favor, go buy your silly upgrade cards now and stop trolling the MR forums.

surflordca
Jan 27, 2008, 02:28 PM
this is a propaganda board.. ur post makes it clear..

where do you get me upgrading my g4 at the cost of 800 dollars??

369 < 800... umm ok..

you ppl shouldnt hate.. the g4 it a tribute to apple..built ahead of its time... 9 years later i could have something that would eat a mini alive..

My mistake saying $800 as I read your post wrong but your G4 is NOT worth the upgrade

JNB
Jan 27, 2008, 02:33 PM
Um, nobody's hating, just trying to save you time and hassle.

What is your time worth? You work for free? Unless you do, you have to factor in the time it'll take you to execute the upgrade, not to mention the severe headaches that arise during the process, and they WILL arise. This isn't a P&P process.

Plus, when you run into those problems, you'll find it exceedingly difficult to get help. Apple won't, most folks on the forum couldn't, and Google will have you spending days, if not weeks searching for answers that are generally not quite what you're looking for.

I love my G4, and my G5, and my Intel MB, but I'm not going to flay myself trying to put lipstick on a pig when that time comes. I'll just repurpose it into something more suited for its age and capability, or resell it to defray the cost of a new machine.

In any case, here's (http://lowendmac.com/ppc/g4saw.shtml) a decent resource to give you some ideas, where others have already found out the viable upgrade paths. Good luck.

Everythingisnt
Jan 27, 2008, 03:01 PM
I think the main issue here is power/per $ value. From the perspective of upgrading a 400mhz Sawtooth to g4, you probably would get more mhz for your $ then if you went went with the mini. But you DO need to consider things like architecture, bus speed, etc. Even if the mini doesn't seem like a viable alternative to a relatively cheap CPU upgrade now, in 2 or 3 years it certainly will.

The sawtooth is around 9 years old - and you can't upgrade it indefinitely. I'd say upgrade to a mini now and spare yourself a headache down the line.

bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 03:11 PM
I don't need to explain it to someone who's acting like a snot, because it's already been explained a billion and one times all over the net, which makes you either a troll, an idiot, or too lazy to do a google search. Take your pick.

Do us all a favor, go buy your silly upgrade cards now and stop trolling the MR forums.

sounds like ur the troll between you and i..

if its been explained sooo much why do i keep getting info proving otherwise.. why are their bench marks proving the g4 can still be a beast for years to come and upgraded it out preforms g5 and the mini or on par levels.. apple will do what it can to phase it out im sure.. and they will have ppl like you creating propaganda until then.. to get ppl to fork over more then they have to..

i will upgrade just for you.. well more for me.. but i'll have you in mind during my 10 minute instillation.. uu i may have to download some firmware..

omg i dont know how to install leopard.. give me a break ppl... the rumor here is you all are the trolls..

oh and to the other poster i do work for free when i work for myself... theres nothing wrong with giving value to myself..

lets not look at the obvious factor...PRICE $369 DOLLARS for a 1.6 2 gig mac running leopard.. that will be suffice for 3-5 more years..

and to those whos argument is based on age.. some things are just classics.. i would compare the g4 to a 69 camaro.

the other obvious here is everyones quick resistance.. a tell tell sign of something far more sinister.. and its coming from rumor vets.. more like apple employees

and to another poster.. the sawtooth is a g4.. but youre almost right its shelf life would be 3-5 years.. it will have its day to die unless some guru finds a way.. and in 3 -5 years what r you gonna do with that mini ppl???? it will be rendered useless....

with the 500 plus dollars i will save.. it will go towards the g6 intel quadx4 in 3-5 years.. but i guess some of you like to just waste money when its not needed.. unless you fall into the 10% where you have to.... its the waste

JNB
Jan 27, 2008, 03:27 PM
We really don't need to start pi**ing back & forth now. It's obvious that when it comes to opinions, you'll not change anyone else's mind, and they won't change yours. The forums work best when we're not argumentative or intentionally dismissive; when you get the juvenile responses, just don't rise to the bait, they'll go away.

Keep in mind, you did ask for input, and you got it. It's not personal attacks, not trolling, and generally (except for some ill-considered comments) based on experience. Most folks here want you to not only be successful, but also not place yourself in a position where you end up throwing good money after bad should things not work out well.

You have apparently already done a fair cost-benefit analysis for your own purposes, so as that may be a perfectly viable and appropriate option, have at it. The Mini may not have the expandability or growth potential you need, fine, that's all you need to say and we can move past that point.

it will go towards the g6 intel in 3-5 years

Wrong manufacturer, wrong processor series. ;)

Cromulent
Jan 27, 2008, 03:30 PM
sounds like ur the troll between you and i..

Hmm.

if its been explained sooo much why do i keep getting info proving otherwise.. why are their bench marks proving the g4 can still be a beast for years to come and upgraded it out preforms g5 and the mini.. apple will do what it can to phase it out im sure.. and they will have ppl like you creating propaganda until then.. to get ppl to fork over more then they have to..

Care to post any of these sources providing this information you are getting?

i will upgrade just for you.. well more for me.. but i'll have you in mind during my 10 minute instillation.. uu i may have to download fireware..

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

omg i dont know how to install leopard.. give me a break ppl... the rumor here is you all are the trolls..

Or here.

oh and to the other poster i do work for free when i work for myself... theres nothing wrong with giving value to me..

Or here.

lets not look at the obvious factor...PRICE $369 DOLLARS for a 1.6 2 gig mac running leapard.. that will be suffice for 3-5 more years..

Mhz ratings are meaningless between different CPUs. You need to look at real world performance.

Do not forget the Mac Mini is a dual core computer so actually has the equivalent of two processors in it, compared with your G4 which only has one.

and to those whos argument is based on age.. some things are just classics.. i would compare the g4 to a 69 camaro.

Unfortunately computers are not the same as cars.

the other obvious here is everyones quick resistance.. a tell tell sign of something far more sinister.. and its coming from rumor vets.. more like apple employees

Eh? Wow, talk about paranoia.

and to another poster.. the sawtooth is a g4.. but youre almost right its shelf life would be 3-5 years.. it will have its day to die unless some guru finds a way.. and in 3 -5 years what r you gonna do with that mini ppl???? it will be rendered useless....

I guess you have very light computer needs if you think a G4 is going to last another 3 - 5 years.

with the 500 plus dollars i will save.. it will go towards the g6 intel in 3-5 years.. but i guess some of you like to just waste money when its not needed.. unless you fall into the 10% where you have to.... its the waste

G6 Intel? What are talking about? the G3, G4 and G5 processors are all PPC (i.e Motorola and IBM CPUs) there is no such thing as a G6 Intel and there never will be.

bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 03:46 PM
Hmm.



Care to post any of these sources providing this information you are getting?



I have no idea what you are talking about here.



Or here.



Or here.



Mhz ratings are meaningless between different CPUs. You need to look at real world performance.

Do not forget the Mac Mini is a dual core computer so actually has the equivalent of two processors in it, compared with your G4 which only has one.



Unfortunately computers are not the same as cars.



Eh? Wow, talk about paranoia.



I guess you have very light computer needs if you think a G4 is going to last another 3 - 5 years.



G6 Intel? What are talking about? the G3, G4 and G5 processors are all PPC (i.e Motorola and IBM CPUs) there is no such thing as a G6 Intel and there never will be.

i know just keeping the name g..

whats another 3-5 when its already lasted 9.. thats a machine..

what consists of light.. i could use latest abobe suite for the next 20 years if need be on an upgraded machine.. i could use older versions of adobe on this for another 20..

they do the job.. once again how many ppl do hardcore editing/3d modeling-animations/multi layered recordings and the such.. the 10% i speak of... so i understand the power needs.... i like the rest of the 90% can get by on your so called light definition..

im not paranoid i just see through the monkeyness ..

dual processors really dont do too much if you are using one application.. its a lil faster in a single app in a technical sense.. but how many people need to run multiple process consuming apps.. really??..10% once again..

i like what the other guy said... drop it.. there is no point...do u remember that monkey apple bit someone put together...

the mirrors reflection of perceptions... grape ape.. grape ape

bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 03:51 PM
Hmm.



Care to post any of these sources providing this information you are getting?



I have no idea what you are talking about here.






i like what the other guy said.. drop it.. there is no point...do u remember that monkey apple bit someone put together...

the mirrors reflection of perceptions... grape ape.. grape ape

also you want to know where i get my data.. hmm so you can have it removed?? do your own research.. who says its just on the internet..i live in a tech city .. ppl have lives and circles of friends.. we do communicate..

Cromulent
Jan 27, 2008, 03:54 PM
also you want to know where i get my dat.. hmm so you can have it removed?? do your own research.. who says its just on the internet..i live in a tech city .. ppl have lives and circles of friends.. we do communicate..

I have done my research. I'm just interested to know what research you have done.

Trusting to friends is not the most reliable method of picking up technical information it has to be said.

bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 04:02 PM
I have done my research. I'm just interested to know what research you have done.

Trusting to friends is not the most reliable method of picking up technical information it has to be said.

when they work for intel, amd, dell, microsoft, APPLE etc i say it does.. austin is full of technical minds....

JNB
Jan 27, 2008, 04:48 PM
when they work for intel, amd, dell, microsoft, APPLE etc i say it does.. austin is full of technical minds....

Um, so why ask here? Surely, all those great friends/minds have already answered this for you.

Sounds like someone needs a nap.

irishgrizzly
Jan 27, 2008, 04:58 PM
Don't listen to their LIES bluesclueU! SOme of us on here know the turths, we are go to get G3 and prove we make them fast more then the intel "apples". You know it makes sense to hear all of these things, right?

bluesclueU
Jan 27, 2008, 05:01 PM
Um, so why ask here? Surely, all those great friends/minds have already answered this for you.

Sounds like someone needs a nap.

i do need a nap.. but i was looking for ppl who have done the upgrades.. most of my friends work with powerhouses and an upgraded g4 would do nothing for them.. other then a quad there isnt much out there in their minds

ReanimationLP
Jan 27, 2008, 05:05 PM
Well, since you're so into it.

eBay is your friend. You can probably pick up a used CPU upgrade for cheap.

Also, get a PC 9800 Pro card, then go to www.themacelite.wikidot.com and just download the 9800 Pro ROM file and flash software, stick it in a PC, and flash.

Used PC 9800s go for around 40-100, depending on where you look. Try anandtech and HardOCP Forums. Many people there upgrade constantly, so a lot of times you can score great prices on em.

Same with the RAM.

I just upgraded a Sawtooth 400 with a 1GHz upgrade that I had already. Worked fine, was simple, and sped it up a lot. I also recommend, when you install this upgrade, if it uses the OEM Apple heatsink, to buy a fan and bolt it onto the side, as well as use some Artic Silver thermal compound.

jwt
Jan 27, 2008, 05:39 PM
Well OP, it looks like you've gotten nothing but negativity and arguments, but nobody has asked you what you're doing with the machine. I think if this machine has lasted you as long as it has, then it's probably still a good machine for you--one worth upgrading. If you're doing the types of tasks that most people do--WP, email, web surfing--then you'll be really happy with the upgrade. However, if you want to work with 10 MP RAW images in Lightroom, or do any HD video stuff, then the upgrade won't be worth it. This is the boat I'm in. I upgraded my G4 last year from 733 MHz to 1.5 GHz, and was really happy with it. It didn't seem like a slow machine anymore. However, I just got a 10 MP dSLR and I'm doing a lot of waiting. Also, I'm now running out of HD space, and I'd like to do some HD video recording from broadcast TV, so it's now time for an upgrade. My Mac Pro should be here tomorrow.

All that being said, if you really want to upgrade your G4, I would stick with a 7455 upgrade, because they're cheaper and just as fast as a 7447, but you don't need to upgrade the firmware. Additionally, the Radeon 9800 is overkill. I'd try to get a 9000 pro off ebay. Keep you costs under $300, and I think you'll be OK, and you can enjoy a couple more years with your machine.

aristokrat
Mar 21, 2008, 03:38 PM
I'd say one major argument that a lot of people disregard when upgrading the Sawtooth is its sheer versatility. Relatively slow bus speed aside, you can upgrade the PSU to power all kinds of further mods.

I've got a pretty serious Sawtooth upgrade, and it is fast. Dual 7448 1.8 GHz processor upgrade (the one that is constantly sold out because it is so unpopular), Radeon 9800 Pro, 2 GB RAM, 5 port USB 2.0 PCI, 802.11n PCI, 2-Port ATA 133 PCI, 2 x 120 GB HD on main ATA bus in RAID, 4 x 300 GB HD on PCI ATA chain in RAID, removable 120 GB 2.5" in one of front bays, and 2 DVD±RW DL optical drives. This is the only model of G4 that could support all that (unless you are good with your electrical transformers), because it has the semi-standard ATX motherboard power supply that allows for upgrades, to 600W in my case. I would say that upgrading any other G4 is not worth it, but the Sawtooth motherboard allows for a great deal of extendibility. I'm very happy with my machine, and it is definitely not slow.

If you do get a G4 upgrade, make sure it is one of the newer 7448 G4's, not the 7447s. The 8's are much faster, more efficient, etc (think core duo vs core 2 duo). The 8's clock faster than some Core 2 Duo's in fact, as they are very solid chips. Also, to get around the rather meager bus-speed, get a dual-core chip and RAID your HDs, as this will definitely help eliminate any non-bus bottlenecks. Additionally, with OS X off-loading video processes to the GPU a fast video card also speeds things up a tad, and makes things really nice when you're hooked up to a 24" 1900x1200 screen. I'm sure my little Sawtooth never thought it would be capable of such things.

And while you're at it, get a new case too! Building my own Mac was super fun, and it looks awesome in its new black metal tower (to all who would call me a heretic, the change was somewhat out of necessity: there's no way all of the above would have fit in the standard mid-size tower).

Lord Zedd
Mar 21, 2008, 04:36 PM
has anyone upgraded? if so, was it worth it?

Yes, I have. No, its not worth it.

Like the others said, your computer is 9 years old. What you are doing is basically compared to throwing a 1.3GHz PIII in an old 933mhz Dell. It will still be slow.

A C2D MacMini, even with integrated graphics, will be many times faster than your ancient G4 and a much better value.

2x 1.83GHz processors instead of your 1. Want a 2nd G4 CPU? Add another $400 to your budget.
667 MHz bus vs your 100mhz. FAR faster and VERY noticeable in daily use.
3GB ram PC2-5300 DDR RAM instead of your very slow 2GB PC100 ram.
Built in CD burner/DVD player. $50 you don't have to spend to replace your DVD-ROM.
USB 2.0- $20 card saved.
Gigabit Ethernet- Very fast networking.
802.11g and bluetooth. Beats your optional 802.11a/b and no bluetooth.
85W power consumption over your 200W- Saves energy and money.

So, again. No, its not worth it to upgrade your G4.