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rsm5068
Jan 27, 2008, 03:45 PM
My school has now almost fully switched to Mac (with the exception of our Tech Ed Dept.). But our Math department (which handles all of the programming stuff) has been using windows since Win95 and has just switched to Mac. They are currently in a huge fight about which IDE to use. They would like a standardized IDE for C++ and JAVA, but can't find something that everybody likes. Currently we use Eclipse for JAVA and XCode for everything else. Which would you recommend? and why?



Eraserhead
Jan 27, 2008, 03:53 PM
If they aren't using Cocoa, there is no special advantage of XCode, especially if they are already using Eclipse on Windows I suggest they keep using it, especially as Xcode isn't great for Java.

Virgil-TB2
Jan 27, 2008, 03:58 PM
If they aren't using Cocoa, there is no special advantage of XCode, especially if they are already using Eclipse on Windows I suggest they keep using it, especially as Xcode isn't great for Java.I'm not a programmer much, but this sounds like sensible advice.

My question is, how do they figure they are teaching "Mac Programming" if they are not using Cocoa? A Mac coder that doesn't use Cocoa and doesn't know XCode, is kinda like a Windows programmer that doesn't know .Net or something. :confused:

Cromulent
Jan 27, 2008, 03:59 PM
I'm not a programmer much, but this sounds like sensible advice.

My question is, how do they figure they are teaching "Mac Programming" if they are not using Cocoa? A Mac coder that doesn't use Cocoa and doesn't know XCode, is kinda like a Windows programmer that doesn't know .Net or something. :confused:

Of course you can program on the Mac without using Cocoa.

You have Carbon and then you can do straight command line applications as well.

Eraserhead
Jan 27, 2008, 04:07 PM
then you can do straight command line applications as well.

That is what I was assuming they were doing as its scientific programming. If they are doing applications with a GUI then they'll be better off using Cocoa and Objective C, which can be combined with C++ in Xcode, or Java with a GUI in Eclipse or Netbeans or whatever.

rsm5068
Jan 27, 2008, 05:41 PM
We are suing XCode for C++ (although I doubt they are using Cocoa), but the JAVA coding is being done on Eclipse, both on a Mac platform. The guys at Computer Services are just morons that don't want to have 2 different apps for programming, so they are making us choose one or the other.

toddburch
Jan 27, 2008, 05:51 PM
The guys at Computer Services are just morons that don't want to have 2 different apps for programming, so they are making us choose one or the other.

Pardon my French but the Computer Services folk are idiots. There is no single best (or even appropriate) tool for all uses. Duh.

Todd

rsm5068
Jan 27, 2008, 06:20 PM
Pardon my French but the Computer Services folk are idiots. There is no single best (or even appropriate) tool for all uses. Duh.

Todd

Believe me I know they're idiots. *The following is pure fact and not an exaggeration* They actually went through Mac OS X Tiger when we first upgraded line of code by line of code and shut off certain features (such as AppleScript and Dashboard) so students and teachers couldn't access them. The problem came when they started messing with the core stuff that it runs on. They only did this once though, then created an image and burned it to all of the Macs we had. That normally wouldn't be a problem, except they weren't smart enough to change the IP Address and serial number for each machine. They did this over a weekend, but they didn't realize the problem until the next monday when they started them all up and every one spun for 3 periods. Morons!

toddburch
Jan 27, 2008, 07:22 PM
I understand that the CS folks are in a service position, and they have to support lots of folks, so they are aiming for a common denominator from which they can base their support.

Where I work, they do the same thing (like removing all the games under Windows, setting global policies, yada, yada, yada.)

But sometimes I think these types of departments lose focus on the bigger picture: People need to be productive, and if/when they whittle the toolset down far enough so their understaffed department can support the masses, the net effect is a countering of the enterprise's objectives.

rsm5068
Jan 27, 2008, 07:49 PM
it probably doesn't help that they hire kids strait out of college and don't pay them even half of what they deserve. And then a better job comes along and the current staff leaves and needs replaced.

Catfish_Man
Jan 27, 2008, 08:01 PM
They actually went through Mac OS X Tiger when we first upgraded line of code by line of code

Mac OS X is not open source...

Cromulent
Jan 27, 2008, 08:04 PM
Mac OS X is not open source...

Well, Darwin is.

Catfish_Man
Jan 27, 2008, 10:15 PM
Well, Darwin is.

Yes, but Darwin doesn't include Applescript or Dashboard.

rsm5068
Jan 28, 2008, 06:07 AM
Mac OS X is not open source...

We are special and do what we want. Our school was the first in the nation to use computers for our tech ed department and we have a built up a good relationship with MS and Apple, they send us versions that we can manipulate as we see fit. But they don't offer us any support when we screw things up with the software.