Deutsche Telekom Sold 70,000 iPhones in 11 Weeks [Archive]

MacRumors

Jan 27, 2008, 05:45 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Deutsche Telekom announced (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUKL2666230120080126?rpc=44) (via MacNotes.de (http://www.macnotes.de/2008/01/26/70000-verkaufte-iphones/)) on Saturday that they had sold 70,000 iPhones in the 11 weeks following its launch in November.

This represents a much smaller number of iPhones sold as compared to the 70,000 iPhone sales in 1 month (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/04/orange-sells-70000-iphones-in-first-month/) in France. Despite this, the head of T-Mobile Germany states that "the iPhone is by far the most sold multimedia device in T-Mobile's portfolio."

The German launch of the iPhone was marred (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/20/vodafone-challenges-t-mobiles-iphone-exclusivity-in-germany/) by a legal battle, in which Vodafone won a temporary injunction against T-Mobile from selling the iPhone without an unlocked option. This injunction was later overturned (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/04/t-mobile-relocks-iphone-in-germany/). At Macworld, Apple announced that 4 million iPhones had been sold worldwide, and they are confident about reaching their 10 million goal by the end of 2008.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/27/deutsche-telekom-sold-70000-iphones-in-11-weeks/)

timmillwood

Jan 27, 2008, 05:53 PM

I think the price and lack of common features is putting off Europe buyers, but I still bought one this weekend, and I love it.

Would really like 3G, but I can wait.

tjcampbell

Jan 27, 2008, 05:54 PM

zacksilverman

Jan 27, 2008, 05:54 PM

Hey, hope someone can clarify something for me. is the 10 million iphone goal from june 07 - dec 08 or is it from jan 08 - dec 08.

thanks

Zack

psychofreak

Jan 27, 2008, 05:56 PM

The second the 3G iPhone gets unlocked for regular O2 contracts I'll likely get one.

bigandy

Jan 27, 2008, 05:57 PM

Hey, hope someone can clarify something for me. is the 10 million iphone goal from june 07 - dec 08 or is it from jan 08 - dec 08.

I'd assume June 07 - December 08. Jobs did say "we want to sell 10m before the end of 2008".

:p

voodoofish

Jan 27, 2008, 06:08 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
"the iPhone is by far the most sold multimedia device in T-Mobile's portfolio."

I wonder how they define multimedia device? Presumably they could define it however they want to make sure the iPhone is the number one device in that category!

colewave

Jan 27, 2008, 06:10 PM

peestandingup

Jan 27, 2008, 06:14 PM

I wonder how they define multimedia device? Presumably they could define it however they want to make sure the iPhone is the number one device in that category!Basically. Pretty much any phones these days will play music, browse the internet, etc so are those "multimedia devices" too? And does this include "smartphones"??

Apple has tons of room to cut the price on the iphone to spur sales. Everyone, and I mean everyone, I know wants one, but they are all waiting for one reason or another:

- In contract with a different provider
- Waiting on version 2 and 3g
- Waiting for a cheaper price

What this tells me is that iphone sales will be huge in the long run. As the price goes down and the feature set goes up, more and more people will make the jump.Cell phones are a fickle market. What's hot one day isn't hot the next.

twoodcc

Jan 27, 2008, 06:16 PM

glad to hear that the germans are impressed with how it's selling over there.

petvas

Jan 27, 2008, 06:16 PM

Germany is very different in consumer behaviour than the USA. People her don't want to spend so much money to get a mobile phone. The main reasons for the low sales are:

The price
the price models of T-Mobile. The cheapest contract you get is 49€ monthly and that is too much for most people. The price for a call per minute is also expensive
People don't want a two year contract. It should be one year only.
The lack of UMTS has certainly made people decide against the device
T-Mobile/Apple didn't do a good job of promoting the iPhone here in Germany

Phil A.

Jan 27, 2008, 06:28 PM

I love my iPhone, but I don't know why Steve Jobs didn't investigate further into the European consumer before bringing his device to the EU.

The average customer is presented with a free phone here on a great tariff or an expensive iPhone on a crap tariff. It's not rocket science as to what the masses will choose.

I'm pretty sure Apple and Jobs were very aware of the European Market and I'm equally sure they set their expectations accordingly.
They couldn't bring the phone out in Europe heavily subsidised without annoying their US customers (which will probably be their biggest market) so their options would have been price it high and sell less in Europe, or not sell it at all.

I don't think the iPhone was ever intended as a mass market phone for people who don't really care about their phone as long as it costs nothing (or next to nothing) and makes calls / sends SMSs, but rather as a premium product to test the water and feed back into future developments.

Chupa Chupa

Jan 27, 2008, 06:38 PM

Hey, hope someone can clarify something for me. is the 10 million iphone goal from june 07 - dec 08 or is it from jan 08 - dec 08.

thanks

Zack

He meant from the June '07 U.S. launch until Dec 31 '08. Apple has already announced they've sold 4m phones worldwide as of this month, so clearly Apple will make the 10m number handily, even double handily if they announce a 3G iPhone this summer.

AppleMojo

Jan 27, 2008, 06:54 PM

Apple has tons of room to cut the price on the iphone to spur sales. Everyone, and I mean everyone, I know wants one, but they are all waiting for one reason or another:

- In contract with a different provider
- Waiting on version 2 and 3g
- Waiting for a cheaper price

What this tells me is that iphone sales will be huge in the long run. As the price goes down and the feature set goes up, more and more people will make the jump.

I was going to mention the same thing. Most people that I know give one of those reasons for not yet owning one and will soon have their hands on one.

Some tech-people that I do business with, won't buy one as its an Apple product, but that is just ignorance.

I don't own one yet, been a professional Blackberry user for quite some time. However, as soon as more applications arrive for the iPhone, I will make the switch.

boss1

Jan 27, 2008, 07:03 PM

I've been Pro Apple since middle school but I'm sorry, Apple has failed time after time oversees. To be fair I think that Apple 'gets' that what works in the US doesn't mean it works oversees.

However I really don't think Apple ever tried hard enough to incorporate those differences in how they market in other countries.

It's sad to say but this reminds of me of how bad AOL failed in Europe a decade ago because they tried to push that 29.95 per month for internet crap hoping Europeans would just roll over like we did here in the states.

Heck even products as iconic & broad as McDonalds burgers know enough that the restaurants service & style and the foods they serve have to "FIT" the culture/country they reside in.

samab

Jan 27, 2008, 07:23 PM

I'd assume June 07 - December 08. Jobs did say "we want to sell 10m before the end of 2008".

:p

Steve Jobs said a lot of things.

He said that he wanted 1% of the world market --- but the problem is that the world market kept on expanding.

In January 2007 Keynote, he used 2006 sales figure which is 1 billion cell phone sold in 2006. But the worldwide cell phone market has grown to 1.1 billion cell phones sold in 2007.

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/01/25/tech-cellphones.html

By the end of 2008, the worldwide cell phone market will have grown to 1.25 billion cell phones.

Glenny2lappies

Jan 27, 2008, 07:48 PM

Heck even products as iconic & broad as McDonalds burgers know enough that the restaurants service & style and the foods they serve have to "FIT" the culture/country they reside in.

That's a really good point. Lets face it, mobile phones aren't the same as computers, and people want very different things.

From my limited experience of travelling the world, there's a vast difference between the way mobiles are used in the US than in Europe (or even the UK:-). In the US, it's common to pay for incoming calls, but in Europe you only pay when roaming -- using the mobile in a different country. And thanks to the EU, this is capped at a sensible rate.

Also there's quite a few more mobile operators, albeit they're integrating.

Bottom line: it's too damn expensive and has too many missing features. Come the version 2 phone with 3G, I'm sure it'll be a completely different story.

I'm iPhone free. I'd love one. But I'm damned if I'm paying O2's ridiculously overpriced rates. It looks like the Germans are the same.

Finally; I'll wager that the 3G iPhones are first sold in Japan:-)

em500

Jan 27, 2008, 07:48 PM

I don't think the price of the device is much of a problem. After all, people are used to paying €299 for an iPod. But the T-Mobile contracts are truely aweful (yes also compared to German standards). €49 per month for 100 minutes and 40 sms is really a joke. Sure, it includes data and Wifi hotspots, but that won't give you anymore voice minutes, and after 100 minutes you're paying a whopping €0.29/min.

So realistically, people are going to look at the €69 and €89 plans, and then think it over, pondering how they're locked to this contract for 2 years (and in the mean time a 3G version will surely be available), and say, ***** it, I'll get something else to tide me over, or I'll just get an unlocked one from eBay.

nerdbert

Jan 27, 2008, 08:06 PM

I wonder how they define multimedia device? Presumably they could define it however they want to make sure the iPhone is the number one device in that category!

I assume by multimedia device they mean ordinary smartphones.

There are several points why it's a different game in Germany:

The contract terms T-Mobile offers for the iPhone are much worse than that of any other carrier offering the iPhone. With my unlocked iPhone I pay 20€ in Germany as opposed to 49 and the only difference is that I get 60 SMS *more* for it. (ok, there's one drawback: I only get 250 Mb of GPRS a month. I first thought this would be a limitation but then I realized that I hardly manage to use a 100 with an iPhone - same applies to a friend who has an official contract with T-Mobile. What's the point in calling it a flatrate if you can't even use up the cheapest volume based plan with this technology?)

People over here are not used to going online over mobile carriers. The reason is that frequencies were auctioned by the government and the carriers paid a whooping 50 billion euros for it. Of course they want their money back so when UMTS got public they charged incredible rates for it (hoping that it was the next revolution in this industry). Since companies love to maximize their profit they also charged the same price for GPRS and EDGE. Prices are quite low nowadays, but this pricing model has delayed progress in this area for around 6 years compared to other countries. People still look at me like I'm crazy when I read the news on some website while being in the subway.

Another aspect is that we just got rid of subsidized contracts. It's way cheaper to buy a mobile phone and get a normal contract over here. Plus your phone is not crippled by branding. The iPhone pricing model just came out when the trend was going in the opposite direction.

Last but not least many people got an iPhone from the States before it was released in Germany. I guess it applies to a lot of countries. Just been in a mall in Shanghai last autumn and they had hundreds of them in stock. The gap between att subscribers in the US and sold iPhones makes it pretty obvious.

hithere

Jan 27, 2008, 08:08 PM

I don't think the price is an issue too.

What Europeans don't like are locked phones. Even laws are there to limit this (in some countries) but Apple decided to go for a locked solutions. This generates uncertainty (will the iPhone I buy now be locked? legally unlockable?) and people postpone their purchases.

Problem is that the "wow" effect is important for a phone, and this does not last forever.

Glenny2lappies

Jan 27, 2008, 08:10 PM

lamadude

Jan 27, 2008, 08:20 PM

I thought about buying an iPhone but in the end I opted to keep my current 3G phone and buy an ipod touch. That should keep me going until the iphone 3G arrives.

samab

Jan 27, 2008, 08:24 PM

What Europeans don't like are locked phones. Even laws are there to limit this (in some countries) but Apple decided to go for a locked solutions. This generates uncertainty (will the iPhone I buy now be locked? legally unlockable?) and people postpone their purchases.

The iphone's European launch has pretty much conclusively shot down all the illusions about simlocking laws in Europe.

Belgium is the only country in Europe that doesn't allow simlocking.

lamadude

Jan 27, 2008, 11:47 PM

The iphone's European launch has pretty much conclusively shot down all the illusions about simlocking laws in Europe.

Belgium is the only country in Europe that doesn't allow simlocking.

Yup which probably means us Belgians won't see the iPhone for a long time, such a shame, and the fact that we're sandwiched between the 3 countries that DO have the iPhone only makes it all the more painful ;-)

samab

Jan 28, 2008, 12:06 AM

Yup which probably means us Belgians won't see the iPhone for a long time, such a shame, and the fact that we're sandwiched between the 3 countries that DO have the iPhone only makes it all the more painful ;-)

Well, there are 2 cases going to the European Court of Justice (C-261/07 VTB-VAB NV v Total Belgium NV and C-299/07 Galatea BVBA v. Sanoma Magazines Belgium NV) that will decide whether Belgium's anti-bundling law violates EU consumer protection laws.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/16/technology/iphone.php

sjo

Jan 28, 2008, 03:01 AM

Hey, hope someone can clarify something for me. is the 10 million iphone goal from june 07 - dec 08 or is it from jan 08 - dec 08.

thanks

Zack

it is 10 million jan08-dec08. Apple's CFO Peter Oppenheimer:

Finally, we reiterate our goal of selling 10 million iPhones in calendar 2008.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/42374-apple-f3q07-qtr-end-6-30-07-earnings-call-transcript?page=2

later in the interview he also states that it's about 1% market share they're aiming for, so that would mean 12-13m 2008.

jfanning

Jan 28, 2008, 03:41 AM

ruutiveijari

Jan 28, 2008, 05:44 AM

Despite this, the head of T-Mobile Germany states that "the iPhone is by far the most sold multimedia device in T-Mobile's portfolio."
Well of course since they're the only ones selling it. So everyone who wants one has to buy it from them. Unlike Nokia's or Samsung's etc that you can buy from any store.

This is also interesting:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,141818-c,iphone/article.html

Matti

Jan 28, 2008, 06:53 AM

Depends on what you define as Europe, Finland doesn't allow it on 2G phones either

3G simlocking might soon end as well. At the end on next month goverment will start revaluating, if the temporary law allowing 3G phones to be simlocked will be continued or not.

Dembo

Jan 28, 2008, 07:28 AM

I think all the complaining about a lack of features (specifically 3G) or the price of the iPhone is a red herring – I bought a Samsung i600 (Blackjack w WiFi) instead. Yes it has HSDPA, yes I can install all sort of things. But every, and I mean literally every single feature works somewhere between 0% and 85%. I clearly prefer a subset of features working 100%, thank you.

Apparently the iPhone is selling allright-ish in UK and in France, so why is it a bomb in Germany? Very, very simple:

EUR 50,-/month (USD 74,-) will get you 100min talk time and 40 texts (on top of the data plan of course). Oh, and it’s for 24 months (not 18, as in the UK).

No matter what T-Mobile might be claiming with regards to a lack of features: The plan simply is not competitive. For all the people who think the quality of the T-Mobiles EDGE coverage or the free hotspots are justifying these prices: Well, seems that the market thinks they are not. :p

At least T-Mobile started working on the plans by tossing in free weekend calls but the damage has been done.

I just hope that this is good news for the coming iPhone countries: I hope the carriers watching closely and that T-Mobile Germany remains the only carrier stepping over the line.

123

Jan 28, 2008, 07:34 AM

that will decide whether Belgium's anti-bundling law violates EU consumer protection laws.

You mean greedy bastards protection laws.

OllyW

Jan 28, 2008, 07:38 AM

it is 10 million jan08-dec08. Apple's CFO Peter Oppenheimer:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/42374-apple-f3q07-qtr-end-6-30-07-earnings-call-transcript?page=2

later in the interview he also states that it's about 1% market share they're aiming for, so that would mean 12-13m 2008.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technology/archives/images/Engadget_Macworld07-x.jpg

Definitely 10 million in 2008.

swagi

Jan 28, 2008, 08:21 AM

sjo

Jan 28, 2008, 09:15 AM

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technology/archives/images/Engadget_Macworld07-x.jpg

Definitely 10 million in 2008.

thank you for posting the pic. altough 1% market share in 2008 is not 10m :rolleyes:

i think everybody is aware by now that apple's estimations are conservative. in fact apple's guidance has been up to 80% lower than what has realized. taking that into consideration, the probable "real" target is around 1.5% market share, or 18-19m units.

csimmons

Jan 28, 2008, 09:24 AM

I've been Pro Apple since middle school but I'm sorry, Apple has failed time after time oversees. To be fair I think that Apple 'gets' that what works in the US doesn't mean it works oversees.

1. 44% of Apple's revenue comes from Europe
2. The iPod is the top selling MP3 player in Europe; iTunes is the #1 music portal in every country it's available
3. Apple has always had a strong presence in the education market in Europe
4. It's Mac retail sales are INCREASING.

Where has Apple "failed time after time"?:rolleyes:

MrCrowbar

Jan 28, 2008, 09:44 AM

Give me an iPod touch, put a GSM module, and a SIM card holder in there and make me pay for the software upgrades. Or give me an add-on for the iPod touch that incorporates those things. The dock connector has that hook system so you could attach it pretty safely.

Why is the iPhone so expensive if the iPod touch has the same guts (to be verified) except the GSM module, bluetooth and antenna?

Dembo

Jan 28, 2008, 11:36 AM

If they only lowered the price or the rates, I'd instantly get one.

This is exactly what everyone tells me when I show them an iPhone (not mine unfortunately...) - so simple, everyone knows it but T-Mobile gives a **** (why should they?). I wonder whether in all the iPhone related contracts Apple has to agree to the plans (to ensure that the thing is acctually sold) or whether they do not care.

I am using around 100 - 150MB per months mobile data transfer on a Windows Mobile 6 device (Samsung i600). It is okay-ish compared to most other phones but the iPhone blows it out of the waters. However, my plan costs me about EUR 20/month and that includes HSDPA, not EDGE. So savings over the 24 months are EUR 720 (apporx. USD 1050,-).

I wonder how people can even consider buying a T-Mobile iPhone in Germany when they run the numbers... :confused:

samab

Jan 28, 2008, 12:06 PM

3G simlocking might soon end as well. At the end on next month goverment will start revaluating, if the temporary law allowing 3G phones to be simlocked will be continued or not.

Finland won't do anything before the Belgium cases are heard in the European Court of Justice.

Also Nokia has been looking at the iphone business model --- and they want to copy that. Finland will bend on Nokia's demand.

dasein

Jan 28, 2008, 12:20 PM

Absolutely.

For me the price of data roaming is just eye-wateringly awful: £7.50/€10/$14 per megabyte.

It's one thing for Apple to make money. This is greed.

They're all that way, but how much of that actually goes to Apple? The carriers (and government by way of regulation and auction) are responsible mostly. Greed by proxy is still sticking it to everyone. Those billions the government got in the auction phases are part of the balance due sheet for us end users.

samab

Jan 28, 2008, 12:36 PM

Those billions the government got in the auction phases are part of the balance due sheet for us end users.

The 3g auctions had nothing to do with cell phone service prices.

The French government charged less than 500 million euro for each 3G license (and there were 3 licenses so that's only 1.5 billion euro). That's nothing compared to UK's 22.5 billion pound 3G auction.

You don't see the French iphone prices much cheaper than UK --- both in terms of hardware and monthly plans.

aswitcher

Jan 28, 2008, 01:54 PM

Pricing and lack of 3G...

dasein

Jan 28, 2008, 02:35 PM

The 3g auctions had nothing to do with cell phone service prices.

The French government charged less than 500 million euro for each 3G license (and there were 3 licenses so that's only 1.5 billion euro). That's nothing compared to UK's 22.5 billion pound 3G auction.

You don't see the French iphone prices much cheaper than UK --- both in terms of hardware and monthly plans.

But why charge anything? That's mobster mentality. Who are they helping here? Just because they can fleece the market for 1.5 billion euro isn't a just reason. BTW, 1.5 billion euro isn't chump change. I disagree...someone has to pay it, that someone is the end user, so the 3g auctions however tame by comparison do affect cell phone service prices. The default on governments' part shouldn't be to charge and figure out why later. Does it really cost the French government that much to oversee the airways? When you auction something off, you're going for the highest profit. Governments (our governments) shouldn't be in the profit business...that's all I'm saying.

samab

Jan 28, 2008, 03:04 PM

Brits paid the same amount of money on the iphone hardware and iphone monthly plan as the French --- then it has nothing to do with the 3G auction.

The US government pioneered on spectrum auctioning --- yet Americans paid the cheapest price for the iphone and their iphone plan is cheaper than Europeans because they have unlimited nights and weekends and rollover of daytime minutes.

Airwaves is a public property --- don't you want the government to have that extra 30 billion dollars to pay for better schools and health care.

swagi

Jan 28, 2008, 03:26 PM

But why charge anything? That's mobster mentality. Who are they helping here? Just because they can fleece the market for 1.5 billion euro isn't a just reason. BTW, 1.5 billion euro isn't chump change. I disagree...someone has to pay it, that someone is the end user, so the 3g auctions however tame by comparison do affect cell phone service prices. The default on governments' part shouldn't be to charge and figure out why later. Does it really cost the French government that much to oversee the airways? When you auction something off, you're going for the highest profit. Governments (our governments) shouldn't be in the profit business...that's all I'm saying.

You know...that's why it was an auction! Government didn't say anything about the price, it was the companies, who did this absurd bidding.

In Germany I remember there were 12 UMTS slots, that were auctioned. Don't nail me down on numbers, but we had a point at a combined sum of I think 25 billion Euros, where six providers aquired two slots. But both T-mobile and Vodafone wanted more, so they bid more. Basically in the end we had a combined sum of 50 billion Euros with the same end result.

It's the bidders, who are to blame. Basically you do the same as blaming the seller of the famous 'Maria toast' for taking that insane amount of money. But only the highest bids count, that's what an auction is about.

And basically you can choose, if you take a provider that charges you much money. That's why the iPhone doesn't sell like it could.

dasein

Jan 28, 2008, 04:07 PM

It's the bidders, who are to blame. Basically you do the same as blaming the seller of the famous 'Maria toast' for taking that insane amount of money. But only the highest bids count, that's what an auction is about.

And basically you can choose, if you take a provider that charges you much money. That's why the iPhone doesn't sell like it could.

It's disturbingly cozy though. What else could you do if you were in the business but bid? The issue is who got the money...not you or me, or even the bidders. This has nothing to do with American, European, health care, education or anything else. Who invented wireless, built the systems, the phones, the towers, and lined up investors? Not any government. So why should a government rake in anything from it just because it can? Private auctions are fine because it's someone else's money. This is a public auction that passed the buyers' final bids onto you and me....nice work if you can get it. BTW, I'm not defending Apple's pricing scheme, but one rip-off doesn't justify another. Saying something is "public property" doesn't mean it's open season on charging for it without justification. Reasonable expenses, yes. This was a pig with lipstick.

weckart

Jan 28, 2008, 04:25 PM

The 3g auctions had nothing to do with cell phone service prices.

The French government charged less than 500 million euro for each 3G license (and there were 3 licenses so that's only 1.5 billion euro). That's nothing compared to UK's 22.5 billion pound 3G auction.

You don't see the French iphone prices much cheaper than UK --- both in terms of hardware and monthly plans.

Why on earth would you expect to see phones and plans cheaper in France than elsewhere?
That is not how businesses work.

Who were the bidders? The same handful who bid in all of the European auctions. Just because they got off relatively lightly in France, they still got mightily stung in Germany and the UK. These are multinationals and overall acquiring 3G licences for their European markets cost them plenty. They will have to recoup this outlay as best they can and that means charging as much as possible across their European markets. They would be hauled over the coals if they charged half as much in France as they did in the UK, just because the auctions went their way there, relatively speaking.

samab

Jan 28, 2008, 05:04 PM

Who were the bidders? The same handful who bid in all of the European auctions. Just because they got off relatively lightly in France, they still got mightily stung in Germany and the UK. These are multinationals and overall acquiring 3G licences for their European markets cost them plenty. They will have to recoup this outlay as best they can and that means charging as much as possible across their European markets. They would be hauled over the coals if they charged half as much in France as they did in the UK, just because the auctions went their way there, relatively speaking.

I agree with you --- whether it's tragedy of the commons or prisoner's dilemma.

The multinational carriers decided to overpay in a few countries like UK and Germany --- precisely because other countries were stupid enough to either give the license basically for free (i.e. Sweden) or very low price (i.e. France).

At the very least, the UK government got $30 billion to pay for school and health. The French government got next to nothing and the French consumers are overpaying their monthly mobile tarriffs.

The Swedish government is stupid no more. They had a disasterous 3G beauty contest --- carriers got their spectrum for something like $100,000 and then dragged their feet on deployment. For the past 2 years, the Swedish government is doing everything by auction.

samab

Jan 28, 2008, 05:17 PM

This is a public auction that passed the buyers' final bids onto you and me....

Actually the carriers don't pass the cost of the license directly to the consumers.

Many economists have been studying the 1999 3G auctions for the last decade. The 3G license is considered to be "sunk cost" and does not in any way affect the long term pricing of the cell phone service.

www.nuff.ox.ac.uk/users/klemperer/biggestsept.pdf

Do you notice that the phrase "beauty contest" ceased to exist on all European discussions about spectrum management anymore?

jfanning

Jan 28, 2008, 05:29 PM

1. 44% of Apple's revenue comes from Europe
2. The iPod is the top selling MP3 player in Europe; iTunes is the #1 music portal in every country it's available
3. Apple has always had a strong presence in the education market in Europe
4. It's Mac retail sales are INCREASING.

Where has Apple "failed time after time"?:rolleyes:

I cannot order from the UK Apple store and get it deliveried to Ireland, that is a big failing

boss1

Jan 28, 2008, 05:44 PM

1. 44% of Apple's revenue comes from Europe

To be fair , if your 44% is fact then point taken. Perhaps my choice of words "fail" may have been overzealous. They certainly could make a better effort in terms of marketing and my comments weren't restricted toward Apple Europe.

The rest of your points are worst then my choice of the word "fail" .

2. The iPod is the top selling MP3 player in Europe; iTunes is the #1 music portal in every country it's available

Your making a case for iTunes? iTunes global popularity is common knowledge. The focus topic is why iPhones aren't selling well and using iTunes popularity doesn't correlate. Unless of course your simply saying Apple doesn't fail time and time again oversees because iTunes does well.

In which case my response is MS Windows is the most used OS in Europe also but I'm certainly not going to use that to argue the Zune is doing great :rolleyes:

3. Apple has always had a strong presence in the education market in Europe
4. It's Mac retail sales are INCREASING.

not good enough. According to many, especially round here :p , Mac sales have been increasing for as long as I can remember. At this rate Apple computers will be a 35% of the global market share by the time Britney's great grand kids qualify for senior citizens discounts.

I'm really not trying to knock the company, more so than I'm not astonished by the overall progress it's made over 2 decades. Especially when you see clear areas to improve in.

I'm by no means saying I'm smarter than Apple or any executive that commands it's direction. It's just frustrating to see it not reach it's potential due to a stubborn nature.

Sceneshifter

Jan 29, 2008, 04:51 AM

In the US, it's common to pay for incoming calls

Wicked, is this really true? If so, how HUGE are the phonebills then? I can make it on 5 euro a month if I really really try (usually way more of course), simply by just answering calls and giving missed calls!

Also, in Belgium here, you can get awesome subscriptions for as little as 25Euro (but then it's also wicked god, loads of free minutes etc...). So as nice as the iPhone is, I will never buy one locked, unlocked is a different story and I'm hoping it will see the daylight eventually (perhaps their old stock once the 2nd generation is released?)

zuma

Jan 29, 2008, 04:55 AM

i don't believe the price t-mobile/apple offer in germany is the issue. most people i know pay about €80-€100 per month and get less talk/sms/data then they would with t-mobile iphone plans.

the problem is that t-mobile in germany is considered totally un-cool. vodafone is the choice of for people that use macs. most mac (read: potential first iphone) users have contracts with vodafone.

apart from that, the real strategic mistake is, to sell through only one provider in the first place. i know, it's all about kick-backs, but if there is nothing to kick back...

and of course tech is the problem: the 2g, a 2mp cam, no mms, no sd cards etc pp

peterbaby

Jan 29, 2008, 06:22 AM

Hey guys, here is an attempt for a quick case study on why I will never buy an iPhone. Although not pretenting to be the average consumer, many of my friends that are not apple fans share the same views.

Here is the story about France, where I've been for 7 years, a tale about a country where I have never seen an iPhone in the streets...

Considering that:

We've had 3G for more than 6 years now
All networks are now being upgraded to HSPDA (and operators largely advertising this, including Orange who is selling the iPhone)
EDGE never really was considered as an option, except for rural areas where 3G will be deployed later
MMS sending, although not extremely popular, is a requirement for the "hype young" population targetted by the iPhone
Data rates are now becoming much cheaper (unlimited in some offers, with the exception of course, of roaming)
Subsidised telephones that cost 1eur with a contract have allowed us for years to download/browse at UMTS speeds, to watch mobile TV, to make video calls...

I really don't understand what's the point in getting a phone that's 5 years late here.

Ok, there is the interface...and to solve this issue, I got an iPod touch, (which now allows me to check my emails).
And here is the catch, DSL offers in France cost +/- 29,90 eur/month (24Mbps, free phone to more than 70 countries, VOD, DSL television with some HD channels, and a free "box" that is a modem/wifi access point/router/TV box/phone adapter). In other terms, in large cities, wifi is everywhere, added to this cafés, McDonalds, Starbucks and public places where wifi is free.
I do use my iPod touch just as I would use an iPhone...it works nearly everywhere, sure not in the subway, but does a lot for no monthly cost.

My point is, and I am a recently 100% mac fan, why the hell would I buy a product that is 5 years outdated?
I have nothing against buying computer products that are "Designed by Apple, California"... the products are at the same level, worldwide. But when it comes to mobile, we are really talking about huge differences in the markets (and if we in Europe are more advanced than in the US, we are far behind Japan or Korea).

I've seen lots of my non-geek friends showing up at Orange (the ones that don't care about the price)...and all of them went home without an iPhone, why?
Sir no, you cannot watch TV on this
Sir no, you don't have MMS on this phone
Sir no, if your friends sends you a high res e-mail, it will take hours to download
Sir no, if you want to listen to the radio/web radio, get a nokia
There is no hype in showing you can buy a product that does nothing...even for non techies.

Fans and hype people can accept one compromise, either price, or functionalities. The iPhone offers us to pay more to get less...the equation is easy to solve for me...

samab

Jan 29, 2008, 11:08 AM

Wicked, is this really true? If so, how HUGE are the phonebills then? I can make it on 5 euro a month if I really really try (usually way more of course), simply by just answering calls and giving missed calls!

Also, in Belgium here, you can get awesome subscriptions for as little as 25Euro (but then it's also wicked god, loads of free minutes etc...). So as nice as the iPhone is, I will never buy one locked, unlocked is a different story and I'm hoping it will see the daylight eventually (perhaps their old stock once the 2nd generation is released?)

Most people are on contract in the US with unlimited mobile-to-mobile and unlimited nights and weekends. One carrier has rollever of daytime minutes.

Cost is not an issue in the US --- at least not enough to change people's habits like using texting your friends because it's cheaper.

BaldiMac

Jan 29, 2008, 11:56 AM

I've seen lots of my non-geek friends showing up at Orange (the ones that don't care about the price)...and all of them went home without an iPhone, why?
Sir no, you cannot watch TV on this
Sir no, you don't have MMS on this phone
Sir no, if your friends sends you a high res e-mail, it will take hours to download
Sir no, if you want to listen to the radio/web radio, get a nokia
There is no hype in showing you can buy a product that does nothing...even for non techies.

Fans and hype people can accept one compromise, either price, or functionalities. The iPhone offers us to pay more to get less...the equation is easy to solve for me...

You don't seem to explain these points very well.

1. You can watch TV shows on an iPhone. Anything encoded in a quicktime supported format will play.
2. No MMS, but even you admitted it's not very popular. And you can use email instead. It's a compromise. Obviously, Apple is not targeting the MMS crowd with this realease.
3. Hi-res email taking hours? Even EDGE can do about 1 MB per minute as long as you have a decent connection. And it's downloaded in the background. And if your going to go through all the trouble of downloading a hi-res pic to a phone, wouldn't you rather see in on an iPhone screen than any other phone? :)
4. Web radio is supported. Quicktime streaming.

It is about compromise. The iPhone does some things better. Other phones do other things better. Whether or not the functionality is worth the price is up to each person, just like anything else.

peterbaby

Jan 29, 2008, 12:11 PM

I do agree, it's all about compromise...I would say (in my opinion, and in view of the deceiving sales) that there are too many however.

1. You can watch TV shows on an iPhone. Anything encoded in a quicktime supported format will play.
2. No MMS, but even you admitted it's not very popular. And you can use email instead. It's a compromise. Obviously, Apple is not targeting the MMS crowd with this realease.
3. Hi-res email taking hours? Even EDGE can do about 1 MB per minute as long as you have a decent connection. And it's downloaded in the background. And if your going to go through all the trouble of downloading a hi-res pic to a phone, wouldn't you rather see in on an iPhone screen than any other phone?
4. Web radio is supported. Quicktime streaming.

Let me add a few remarks:

Quicktime is ok, do you have access to more than 50 live TV channels that we have access to with any low end 3G phone? No :(
True, although I think part of the crowd would have appreciated. :rolleyes:
Sure is not that bad...but compare that with HSPDA? And for the screen, you are totally correct , it's much better on an iPhone. But advertisment in Europe has been based on technical features for years...thus, even most non technical users are scared by lower specs, even if, again, a 50kb picture is better on an iphone than a 2Mb one on a Samsung.
Didn't know that, 1 point for the iPhone :p

ruutiveijari

Jan 30, 2008, 07:56 AM

HSPDA
It's HSDPA (High-Speed Downlink Packet Access.)

zepharus

Jan 30, 2008, 08:17 AM

Apple has tons of room to cut the price on the iphone to spur sales. Everyone, and I mean everyone, I know wants one, but they are all waiting for one reason or another:

- In contract with a different provider
- Waiting on version 2 and 3g
- Waiting for a cheaper price

What this tells me is that iphone sales will be huge in the long run. As the price goes down and the feature set goes up, more and more people will make the jump.

I think you are 110% correct. I would love an iPhone, but im in contract, and quite happy with verizon (actually love my LG eNv).

When I see a 3G network and a version 2 phone that supports it ill jump.... just not that compelling until...