Copy and Paste Implementation, Exchange Support for iPhone?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

SvenonTech.com claims (http://svenontech.com/2008/01/24/the-skinny-on-why-the-iphone-update-lacked-cut-n-paste-and-exchange-support/) to have tracked down an Apple representative at Macworld who was willing to speak about the reason why Copy/Paste has not yet arrived in the iPhone.

The validity of the comments are in question as it seems unlikely that an Apple employee with this knowledge would necessarily speak freely about it at Macworld. The claim is that iPhone Copy and Paste is being actively developed, but how exactly to implement the functionality appears to be up for debate. The trouble it is having is implementation. How to easily call up a copy or cut option and then the paste action. It’s probable that the zoom bubble (the one that brings up the edit cursor) is the issue as it has removed the obvious tap and hold position from Apple to use for a pop-up menu of some sort. Text selection is another difficulty to sort out. Certainly, the cursor could be added to the menu selection; however, Apple wants to keep this as simple as possible and that added step would not lend itself to simple.
Historically, Apple had already addressed a menu-less copy/paste in their previous touch-based handheld, the Newton. A description and video (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2007/07/28/how-apple-could-handle-copy-and-paste-in-the-iphone/) shows how Apple implemented Copy/Paste on the Newton, though it would conflict with the press-hold magnifying glass in the iPhone.

Other iPhone users have suggested alternate possibilities (screenshot (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3932833#post3932833), mockup video (http://vimeo.com/266383)) but these also suffer from complexity issues.

Meanwhile, the Apple representative also claimed that "Apple's aware of the Exchange need" but stopped short of confirming that it was coming.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/27/copy-and-paste-implementation-exchange-support-for-iphone/)

[moonzilla]

bring on exchange! i HATE my work-administered 8525

[tjcampbell]

Not concerned right now!

I just want to be able to open/edit PAGES DOCS ON THE friggin thing!

[Bosunsfate]

Copy and paste. I don't really miss it.

Now a better way to get to my exchange server than through Outlook WebAccess. That would be nice.

And if it is between the two, Apple has to have Exchange as the priority. It is what holds it back from getting more penetration into the business market.

Though, in parallel to that is AT&T support for corporate accounts. When my company tried to add the iPhone to their existing accounts AT&T would not allow it.

[nagromme]

Hopefully they will settle on a Copy/Paste method by the time the SDK is ready, so that app developers won't try to invent their own conflicting methods.

[Sussman]

I think the mockup video was funny and well done, as well as a great idea of how to copy/paste

[grannysmith]

I'd sell my future first born just for effective cut and paste in Leopard.

[Bosunsfate]

Hopefully they will settle on a Copy/Paste method by the time the SDK is ready, so that app developers won't try to invent their own conflicting methods.

That is a good point. With the current set of applications I don't need it. Though what application would you want to create that would need it?

Would it not be better to allow more smart tag like functions? i.e. I don't need to copy a phone number because the iPhone recognizes that.

[Mac Fly (film)]

http://jobs.apple.com/index.ajs?BID=1&method=mExternal.showJob&RID=12122&CurrentPage=4 ;)

[sebastianlewis]

So if 1 finger brings up the zoom bubble, then why not add a second finger to bring up text selection and when the fingers are lifted up, the options to copy, cut, cancel, and paste come up below the selection?

Sebastian

[Mac Fly (film)]

I'd sell my future first born just for effective cut and paste in Leopard.
Leopard has that feature.

[Bosunsfate]

http://jobs.apple.com/index.ajs?BID=1&method=mExternal.showJob&RID=12122&CurrentPage=4 ;)

That kinda takes the rumor out of it. :D

[godrifle]

Add Exchange, sell more iPhones. :rolleyes:

[SheriffParker]

Hopefully they will settle on a Copy/Paste method by the time the SDK is ready, so that app developers won't try to invent their own conflicting methods.

Good point. There's got to be a ton of viable options. Double Finger Double Tap, Single finger triple tap... etc.

[RayCon]

So if 1 finger brings up the zoom bubble, then why not add a second finger to bring up text selection and when the fingers are lifted up, the options to copy, cut, cancel, and paste come up below the selection?

Sebastian

Yes, exactly my sentiments. If Apple can do finger-spread and double-tap zooming, I'm certain that this would not be that difficult.

[chr1s60]

Please, just bring on copy/paste already!!! If we can't have that then please let us get MMS! Those are the two things that I want/miss the most.

[termina3]

Good point. There's got to be a ton of viable options. Double Finger Double Tap, Single finger triple tap... etc.

I don't own an iPhone, so I don't know if this conflicts with anything...

but how about a rapid counter or clockwise turn? One to copy, one to paste?

You select the text (...I'm assuming you can do that with the loupe), then if you want to copy, you turn two fingers each 90º clockwise (I'm thinking of the MBa move), copying the text.

Then you would go to where you wanted to place it, put the cursor there, and do the same twist-move, but counter-clockwise.

[Mac Fly (film)]

So if 1 finger brings up the zoom bubble, then why not add a second finger to bring up text selection and when the fingers are lifted up, the options to copy, cut, cancel, and paste come up below the selection?

Sebastian
I made this comment (very similar anyway) on AI about 4.5 months ago.

[tothelimit]

I think the mockup video was funny and well done, as well as a great idea of how to copy/paste

at the beginning when he finishes the first few sentences and then just moves his mouth around - thats pretty darn funny.

and then 'thanks for watching.... i love you'.

well played.

[ryanflanders256]

Somebody please fix this! It's driving me nuts!

After being without copy and paste for months, I don't care about implementation anymore--I just want to be able to friggin' copy and paste!

Location triangulation in Google Maps?

Cool.

No copy and paste???

WTF!

FIX IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zweben]

I don't think relying on gestures to copy and paste will meet Apple's standards for ease of use, as they don't have any intuitive gestures associated with them. I think they'll probably end up doing something like this:

Double-tap and hold to start highlighting. The zoom bubble will pop up, showing you where your selection ends. Once the selection is made, a button panel will pop up at the bottom of the screen, with Cut, Copy, Paste and Cancel options.

It's simple enough, doesn't interfere with the zoom bubble, and doesn't require an additional menu to stay on screen.

Edit: I just realized another problem: You need to be able to accurately place the beginning point in the selection, and without the zoom bubble it's going to be difficult, so selecting will either have to be quick so you can redo it if you start in the wrong place, or allow you to pan around to set the beginning point of the selection. Panning around before the selection starts will add complexity to the process, so the best way I can think of is a selection mode, where other tap behaviors such as the double tap zoom in Safari will be disabled. Then you just drag over text to select it.

[winmacguy]

http://jobs.apple.com/index.ajs?BID=1&method=mExternal.showJob&RID=12122&CurrentPage=4 ;)

Very interesting. Think of the potential. :apple:

[emccus01]

Exchange!!! If there is an apple rep reading this forum please include this soon on the phone!!

[The Deepness]

Seems a simple "copy/paste" solution for iPhone that's in keeping with "gestures" would be to SWIPE a finger across text to select it. Once selected, TAP it to copy, or "lift," it off the page. Drag it to where you want with a finger (it could appear translucent over a placement cursor while dragging) and then TAP AGAIN to paste, or "place," it in its new location.

To truly copy selected text and paste duplicate text in new location, simply use two fingers: one to hold the original position and the other to drag the selected text to the new location.

This method wouldn't conflict with the tap-and-hold method currently used for the magnifying glass (which probably shouldn't be changed). Nor does it address copying and pasting between applications. Perhaps for that, a clipboard app (accessible from all applications) could be employed somehow.

Apple will surely implement copy/paste on iPhone that will be intuitive and elegant. With the SDK arriving next month, a third party developer may beat Apple to the punch.

[MacTheSpoon]

Why don't you just have the magnifying glass come up, as usual, but include a button next to the magnifying glass that you can press with a second finger to begin selecting text?

[twoodcc]

well hopefully they'll find a way to get it in the iPhone soon. a lot of people need that

[Bosunsfate]

I'm really curious to know what situation using the iPhone would warrant using a copy or a paste?

I've been using the iPhone for over six months and have never found myself saying, damn I wish I had copy/paste.

Note that I use my iPhone a ton and I'm not saying its a bad idea. Rather, I'd just like to know what situation brings up the need.

Thanks.

[That-Is-Bull]

Why not just add another button to the bottom bar that locks the page? Then dragging selects text instead of moving the page, and when text is selected a bubble pops up with options to cut/copy/paste. Just tap the lock button again when you're done and the page is unlocked. Also, why the hell is copy/paste needed that much? I don't see much use in it on a phone.

[sebastianlewis]

I made this comment (very similar anyway) on AI about 4.5 months ago.


Hello Ireland. Heh, well I'm surprised more people aren't making comments like yours or mine, 2 fingers is only natural, not as natural as pressure sensitivity but the iPhone can't detect pressure so that's out.

Sebastian

[shen]

Seems a simple "copy/paste" solution for iPhone that's in keeping with "gestures" would be to SWIPE a finger across text to select it. Once selected, TAP it to copy, or "lift," it off the page. Drag it to where you want with a finger (it could appear translucent over a placement cursor while dragging) and then TAP AGAIN to paste, or "place," it in its new location.

how does a scrolling drag differ from a selection swipe then?

[a1016neo]

I hope 1.1.4 will have copy/paste

[Mac Fly (film)]

Hello Ireland. Heh, well I'm surprised more people aren't making comments like yours or mine, 2 fingers is only natural, not as natural as pressure sensitivity but the iPhone can't detect pressure so that's out.

Sebastian

Hey Slewis, you may find my new (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=83743) post over on AI interesting.

[Darth.Titan]

I'm really curious to know what situation using the iPhone would warrant using a copy or a paste?

I've been using the iPhone for over six months and have never found myself saying, damn I wish I had copy/paste.


I'm right there with ya. I've asked this question before myself and don't know that I've ever gotten an answer. Where is everyone missing copy/paste?

Also, from what I've read iPhone apps are "sandboxed" and run separately from the phone OS. If that's the case, copying and pasting between apps would not be possible anyway would it?

[Bosunsfate]

I'm right there with ya. I've asked this question before myself and don't know that I've ever gotten an answer. Where is everyone missing copy/paste?

Also, from what I've read iPhone apps are "sandboxed" and run separately from the phone OS. If that's the case, copying and pasting between apps would not be possible anyway would it?

That's a good point. If you take the same metaphor of a clipboard it would assume that all of the applications can take advantage of it. If the applications are sandboxed that would create an interesting barrier.

I'm all for the technical aspects of copy/paste, but I just don't know what the real practical use is in the iPhone for it.

[Stormybot]

I'm really curious to know what situation using the iPhone would warrant using a copy or a paste?

I've been using the iPhone for over six months and have never found myself saying, damn I wish I had copy/paste.

Note that I use my iPhone a ton and I'm not saying its a bad idea. Rather, I'd just like to know what situation brings up the need.

Thanks.

Copy and paste is the one major thing keeping me from purchasing an iPhone. As soon as I found out that there was no copy and paste, that ended the deal for me.

So what do I need it for? I run a major sports site that links to news from around the web. Sometimes people suggest news and I need to post it. They just submit the URL and I visit it to verify the URL and then post it to our news wire if it is a story that has not already been posted.

Now, they can submit the title of the URL as well, but some people are lazy or just type whatever they want for the title and not the actual title on the article. So I have to visit the page, copy the title and then past it into our submission form.

Or sometimes someone will post a link in our forums. I will visit the link, and then need to copy the url and title and take it over to our submission page.

Or I will read something in part of an article and want to quote that part and submit it as news with a link back to the original article.

The fact that I can't do any of this on the iPhone keeps me from doing it. I can do it on a Sidekick but not an iPhone? C'mon. Copy and paste should have been there from the beginning.

[GQB]

Truth be told, the 'press-hold magnifying glass' is not exactly my favorite element of the touch interface. I wouldn't be heart-broken if Apple had to re-think it to accommodate cut/paste.

[inkswamp]

I love the fact that Apple wants to keep things simple. That's a great design philosophy and if you disagree, just look at some of the remote controls sitting on your coffee table. You know, the ones that look like miniature keyboards, half of which you'll never use.

However, having said that, I think at some point Apple has to realize that they've got a hot item on their hands and that the world has moved on since 1984. People are accustomed to this stuff now and it doesn't have to stay dead simple forever. I think there's a balance that they can strike. Keep the basic functionality (phone calls, accessing applications, iPod, browser, etc.) simple, as they've done now, but don't be afraid to offer some advanced features that might take some reading on the part of the users.

My only complaint about Apple is that they somtimes make the more advanced users suffer trying to cater to the less advanced. There's no reason in the world not to offer an advanced control panel where you can turn on various optional features that might otherwise confuse newbies. Turning on cut and paste functionality could be one of those things.

[curiosa863]

I might not be able to hold out for the next hardware revision to the iPhone.
Generation 1 seems pretty steadfast.

[Bosunsfate]

Copy and paste is the one major thing keeping me from purchasing an iPhone. As soon as I found out that there was no copy and paste, that ended the deal for me.

So what do I need it for? I run a major sports site that links to news from around the web. Sometimes people suggest news and I need to post it. They just submit the URL and I visit it to verify the URL and then post it to our news wire if it is a story that has not already been posted.

Now, they can submit the title of the URL as well, but some people are lazy or just type whatever they want for the title and not the actual title on the article. So I have to visit the page, copy the title and then past it into our submission form.

Or sometimes someone will post a link in our forums. I will visit the link, and then need to copy the url and title and take it over to our submission page.

Or I will read something in part of an article and want to quote that part and submit it as news with a link back to the original article.

The fact that I can't do any of this on the iPhone keeps me from doing it. I can do it on a Sidekick but not an iPhone? C'mon. Copy and paste should have been there from the beginning.

Thanks for the response, you really provide a great example of where the function is not just desired, but really a necessary requirement.

What struck me the most was how complicated things are for you from the start. I would think that if the copy/paste feature was not simple, fast, and easily accessed that you would scream bloody murder...and rightfully so.

Having used the iPhone for a while now, I'd say that the kinds of gestures being described all have their good and bad points. The biggest thing for me, is that adding some type of button would just clutter things up. Even for a power user like you.

I can see people wanting to use a double tap getting you into a select mode, however the double tap is already used. And a triple tap is just a bad idea.

Having seen the MBA set of gestures, I wonder if they could hang a double tap with multiple fingers.

For example, with two fingers a double tap would select the whole word, or sentence. Think of how the clicking of the URL in Safari goes.

The main problem I see is finger size.:D

[GNice]

At least they recognize it (copy/paste) as an 'important need' and are looking for ways to implement it. Can't wait for it to come to fruition...

[Bosunsfate]

At least they recognize it (copy/paste) as an 'important need' and are looking for ways to implement it. Can't wait for it to come to fruition...

If they have some good use cases like what StormyBot described then I think you'll come up with a really great implementation.

The fact that this didn't come out from the beginning I think shows that it is not a simple thing to implement.

[MacFly123]

Just sync it to your brain via wifi and control it with your thoughts :) DONE!

[GQB]

Though, in parallel to that is AT&T support for corporate accounts. When my company tried to add the iPhone to their existing accounts AT&T would not allow it.

Is this since last week's announcement that AT&T would now allow corporate accounts? Curious if your experience is pre or post that.

[tothelimit]

I'm really curious to know what situation using the iPhone would warrant using a copy or a paste?

I've been using the iPhone for over six months and have never found myself saying, damn I wish I had copy/paste.

Note that I use my iPhone a ton and I'm not saying its a bad idea. Rather, I'd just like to know what situation brings up the need.

Thanks.

most of the times that i've found myself missing the copy/paste feature (and even just a text selection feature) are while i'm using the mail application. i've often wanted to select sections of text for deletion (holding the delete button down for multiple lines of text becomes quite tedious). i also like to quote bits and pieces of emails when i'm corresponding with clients - to avoid confusion when i'm answering questions and such. quite a headache without copy/paste. i can think of a handful of other times i've wished for that functionality as well.

the questions about cross application copying/pasting are very intriguing. it would be very disappointing if it wasn't possible. i can think of a few times when i wanted to copy info from a text message to be used in an email. hopefully :apple: is 2 steps ahead on that issue. hopefully.

[Bosunsfate]

Is this since last week's announcement that AT&T would now allow corporate accounts? Curious if your experience is pre or post that.

That was the position of AT&T back in July. I must have missed that announcement by AT&T. Now I wonder if I can merge my personal account? Probably out of luck there. :rolleyes:

most of the times that i've found myself missing the copy/paste feature (and even just a text selection feature) are while i'm using the mail application. i've often wanted to select sections of text for deletion (holding the delete button down for multiple lines of text becomes quite tedious). i also like to quote bits and pieces of emails when i'm corresponding with clients - to avoid confusion when i'm answering questions and such. quite a headache without copy/paste. i can think of a handful of other times i've wished for that functionality as well.

the questions about cross application copying/pasting are very intriguing. it would be very disappointing if it wasn't possible. i can think of a few times when i wanted to copy info from a text message to be used in an email. hopefully :apple: is 2 steps ahead on that issue. hopefully.

Yea, I can see how it would be a nice here as well. Thanks for the info.

[GQB]

That was the position of AT&T back in July. I must have missed that announcement by AT&T. Now I wonder if I can merge my personal account? Probably out of luck there. :rolleyes:


Well, it actually may have been more on the rumor side of the ledger, but seems I heard something more concrete than this...

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/17/rumor_iphone_for_corporate_accounts_coming_soon.html

In any event, yeah, you're probably SOL if you signed up for a personal account.
I decided to just get the touch and wait for V2 to link my corporate number.
I'll have to buy the hardware myself in any event.

[macduke]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

I'm really curious to know what situation using the iPhone would warrant using a copy or a paste?

I've been using the iPhone for over six months and have never found myself saying, damn I wish I had copy/paste.


I'm right there with ya. I've asked this question before myself and don't know that I've ever gotten an answer. Where is everyone missing copy/paste?

Also, from what I've read iPhone apps are "sandboxed" and run separately from the phone OS. If that's the case, copying and pasting between apps would not be possible anyway would it?

Sure copying and pasting between sandboxed apps would be possible. They all communicate with the main operating system. It would be a locked out, only user initiated copy command to an allocated memory area, which could be sandboxed from the main system as well and only allowed access by the signed (apple approved) programs.

Think about it...right now google maps hands off info to safari, your contacts, etc. Safari hands off data to the email apps when you click an email address, and even hands off phone numbers to the phone "app". SMS texts with addresses hand off the URL to safari. The clock app tells the iPod app when to go to sleep. Safari opens youtube videos in the special app. The photo app hands off images to email. I could keep going on, but I think you get the point. Its been a few years since I took a programming class, but if all these apps can pass around all this data then I'm sure its possible.

Also...what about copying and pasting images on the web into, say, email? Everyone keeps talking about text!

[Project]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

how about a button next to Next/previous at the top of the keyboard called 'select'. When pressed it changes the cursor so that you set the start point with the magnifying glass and then move to the end point to highlight the text in between. They keyboard changes context, and has copy, cut and paste buttons. Select copy and the keyboard and cursor mode returns to normal, with the text saved to the clipboard.

[i.maverick]

Good point. There's got to be a ton of viable options. Double Finger Double Tap, Single finger triple tap... etc.

iv said it before and il say it again...can the iphone not recognize gestures, so how about clockwise for copy and anti-clockwise for paste or something like that.
pretty simple is what i think..!!

[i.maverick]

n please please please notes sync......its 2008!!!
so many other phones can sync in a better way with my macbook than the iphone. i had the nokia n73 (b.s phone) with tiger and i used to sync it over bluetooth using isync. so obviously tiger had no notes support but when i upgraded to leopard, believe it or not, i saw all my notes in mail..!!! n i had changed my fone long back..!!
so please gimme the notes sync...it would never be as useful w.o sync!!

[Cloudsurfer]

So, we had to pay to move our icons around. How much will we pay for copy/paste? 9,99€? 17,99€?

[joshysquashy]

I don't know if anyone has said this before, but I have a great solution, and its quite simple!

If you press and hold over text for about 2 seconds, a magnifying glass pops up to enable cursor selection (as it does now). If you move your finger within the next 2 seconds you are moving the text cursor. If you hold for another 2 seconds without moving, a contextual menu pops up.

So 4 seconds reveals the contextual menu, this can be used anywhere, even Safari.

[sunfast]

So, we had to pay to move our icons around. How much will we pay for copy/paste? 9,99€? 17,99€?

I found your cynicism quite amusing :). It raises a serious point though - you were paying for the apps for your touch (which included moving icons around) but if extra features are bundled with apps you may not want but have to pay for iPod touch owners could end up out of a few quid.

[Hattig]

Re: sandboxed applications - the sandboxing environment will interact with the system clipboard so that applications can cut-and-paste to-and-from other applications.

Re: difficulty of cut-and-paste - Apple could restrict it to text only, and some of the demos seem like a good idea for how it could be done. However I'm sure that they're considering rich content cut-and-paste as well. Apple will want to avoid interfaces with operating modes - so no "Select Mode" button - so they're stuck trying to find the best finger actions for select, copy, paste (cut is select, copy, delete possibly).

It will all centre around the magnifying glass for fine-tuning the cursor position. That's single finger. Add a second finger (tap and hold and then move) to select a block of text. Lift the second finger to end the select *and auto-copy the selection* (alternatively pop up some options around the magnifying glass for cut, copy, delete, paste). Add an (X) icon to the top-left of the selected text to delete. Second finger tap in magnifying mode pastes.

Bet there's a whole ramp of UI issues in the idea above though when it comes to actually being used.

[winterspan]

That is a good point. With the current set of applications I don't need it. Though what application would you want to create that would need it?

Would it not be better to allow more smart tag like functions? i.e. I don't need to copy a phone number because the iPhone recognizes that.

You need copy/cut paste exactly like you do on your computer. Copying web page snippets to a notepad, filenames, rearranging text in emails, notes, etc etc etc
do you not use copy and paste all the time on your computer?

[omatzyo]

Regarding exchange support...

has anyone noticed that itunes 1.6 now puts exchange user paths into the iphone when syncing with an exchange server?

i am using itunes 1.6 with Exchange 2007 (via Outlook 2007), and this happens with 1.1.1 and 1.1.2. Haven't upgraded to 1.1.3 yet, but I'm assuming this will hide the exchange path.

It is problematic, because iphone will not send mail to these addresses.

example: (the email address appears as follows)
/o=first organization/ou=exchange administrative group (*code*)/cn=recipients/cn=user.name

could be a hint of what's to come...?

[winterspan]

Seems a simple "copy/paste" solution for iPhone that's in keeping with "gestures" would be to SWIPE a finger across text to select it. Once selected, TAP it to copy, or "lift," it off the page. Drag it to where you want with a finger (it could appear translucent over a placement cursor while dragging) and then TAP AGAIN to paste, or "place," it in its new location.

To truly copy selected text and paste duplicate text in new location, simply use two fingers: one to hold the original position and the other to drag the selected text to the new location.

This method wouldn't conflict with the tap-and-hold method currently used for the magnifying glass (which probably shouldn't be changed). Nor does it address copying and pasting between applications. Perhaps for that, a clipboard app (accessible from all applications) could be employed somehow.

Apple will surely implement copy/paste on iPhone that will be intuitive and elegant. With the SDK arriving next month, a third party developer may beat Apple to the punch.

"swiping across the text".. Are you not using the zoom bubble then? I think that has been the whole problem so far.. You need to be able to use the zoom bubble on both the beginning and end. besides the conflict with touch-and-drag scrolling/panning...

I believe my idea is simple and straightforward:Copy/Cut:

1) Using the zoom bubble, position the cursor where you want to start the highlighting, keeping your finger held down.
2) Tap once (anywhere) with your middle finger to start highlighting.
3) move the cursor to the end of your desired text and let go.
4) choose from subsequent pop-up menu with copy/cut/delete options

Paste:

1) Again, use the zoom bubble to position the cursor at the "paste" point, keeping your finger held down.
2) double tap with your middle finger.


To me, the single tap with your middle finger to start the highlight feels intuitive in the sense that it acts as an "option" key of sorts..
edit: As a few mentioned, a slightly modified concept would be to hold the second (middle) finger down throughout the highlight instead of a tap.

[Cleverboy]

I'd love copy & paste, but the #1 reason why I'd like Apple to add it, is so that all the people that can't appreciate anything else until its added can stop posting comments like "OMG WTF!!!" after every update. Sigh. It'd be really nice, but I'd actually prefer the SDK, speech synthesis or even Bluetooth stereo headphone support WAaaaaaaaY before "cut & paste". But, to satisfy the complainers... yeah, please Apple... make the pain go away.

~ CB

[sachxn]

the real question is still uncertain when will (specific month if not specific date) we see an update containing copy/paste as I am too used to my iPhone and I desparetly need that feature as I was expecting it at the last macworld.

Sachin (http://qtp.blogspot.com)

[neondiet]

I'm right there with ya. I've asked this question before myself and don't know that I've ever gotten an answer. Where is everyone missing copy/paste?

I use the Notes app to make simple lists. What I can do with it is limited, as I can't re-order items in the list without deleting one and typing it again somewhere else. That's not practical, and severely restricts the usefulness of the Notes app.

Also, when replying to emails I often like to grab specific lines from the quoted text and reply to them point by point; deleting other text I'm not commenting on. That's a royal pain in the ass to do at the moment on the iPhone.

SMS is another. Sending text to multiple users was a much needed feature. But I still can't forward texts I receive from one person onto someone else. If I could select/copy the text from one message thread and paste that into a new message, then that would give me the functionality I need.

You may also be right about app sandboxing. But there's no reason that Apple can't provide hooks into a global cut 'n paste buffer that would get around that. Imagine for example being able to select text from an SMS message and pasting it into a Note, or an Email.

3rd party apps are bound to make better use of this too. As it stands, many superb OS X apps (e.g. VoodooPad) would be great candidates for an iPhone port after the SDK is released. But without cut 'n paste they would be crippled.

Those are just the examples I can think of off the top of my head.

[neondiet]

"swiping across the text"..
1) Using the zoom bubble, position the cursor where you want to start the highlighting, keeping your finger held down.
2) Tap once (anywhere) with your middle finger to start highlighting.

That probably works well if you're right handed, but for lefties like me it would be very awkward as when selecting text from the far left, my middle finger isn't over the top of the iPhone. Using my thumb instead feels unnatural.

For me a better solution would be to:

1) position the cursor using the zoom bubble and release.
2) tap once (anywhere on the screen) with two fingers to turn on select.
3) position the cursor using the zoom bubble highlighting the text, then release

On release, the iPhone would display a dialogue box asking me to cut, copy or cancel.

4) tap on cut, copy or cancel

To paste text from the buffer I would:

1) position the cursor using the zoom bubble and release
2) tap once (anywhere on the screen) with two fingers. The iPhone would display a dialogue box.
4) Select paste or cancel from the dialogue box.

Experimenting with this in Notes and imagining the result seems to work. Though it may be better to have a second double finger tap in the middle to prompt for cut/copy/cancel, especially if you have to scroll down to get to the end of the select area you're after.

[errol]

Wow, it's like macrumors read my mind. I had a conversation with somebody in the subway today heading to work in Boston that had an iPhone. I told them I would get one (a jailbroken one, of course) if it had the ability to conduct a copy/cut/paste, and be able to sync with exchange servers (even better, over my $5.99 t-zones like my Nokia E61i does right now)

[Popeye206]

How about a simple, Triple tap and hold on third... drag a selection (if needed), then a button for "Copy" would appear, after copy is selected, you would make an insertion point somewhere and "Paste" would appear.

Am I wrong... is this not the simple answer?????

[happydude]

these two basic features will enhance the iphone so much . . . can't wait to get mine sometime very soon, but will eagerly be anticipating exchange.

a work around i have for the exchange is to have gmail pull in my work emails and then i have mail.app pull in gmail. it even mails out through exchange via gmail. pretty slick, but not what i'd like for a permanent workaround.

[Project]

How about a simple, Triple tap and hold on third... drag a selection (if needed), then a button for "Copy" would appear, after copy is selected, you would make an insertion point somewhere and "Paste" would appear.

Am I wrong... is this not the simple answer?????

I think once you start getting into triple tapping it gets counter intuitive. Even more so for triple tap and hold. At what point does it stop? 5 taps?

I think the simplest answer is to put a button on the keyboard to change the cursor to selection mode.


http://img.skitch.com/20080128-1bndpxkrf3ju2eyqp63my2tpf.jpg

[tijger]

I understood that the iPhone is a multitouch device, so using the same 'gestures' as the iGesture Numpad or TouchStream of Fingerworks is may be a solution... The guys from Fingerworks are working at Apple so I don't see a problem...
For Select see: Gesture Guide Mouse (http://www.fingerworks.com/gesture_guide_mouse.html)
Do a Copy and Paste see: Gesture Guide Editing (http://www.fingerworks.com/gesture_guide_editing.html)

How nice it would be if Apple came with a keyboard like the TouchStream, or even beter build into a MacBook (Pro)...

Greetings...

[Passante]

I'm really curious to know what situation using the iPhone would warrant using a copy or a paste?

I've been using the iPhone for over six months and have never found myself saying, damn I wish I had copy/paste.

Note that I use my iPhone a ton and I'm not saying its a bad idea. Rather, I'd just like to know what situation brings up the need.

Thanks.

There are time when names & phone numbers or web addresses show up in emails or web pages and are not clickable. I agree its infrequent.

[MacGeek7]

while we're griping about the lack of copy/paste let's add the lack of flash support in websites to the list...

still holding out for iPhone 2.0

[Digital Skunk]

i don't know what to say about this. i understand that Apple will have some difficulties trying to put copy paste and simple text editing features in the iPhone, but they are telling me that a team of Apple's engineers, the ones that made the iPhone Ui to begin with can't implement some form of copy and paste.

i don't want to sound too negative but come on! They should at least be able to give us the complicated approach, then make it simple in future revisions.

p.s. the keyboard i am typing on is jacked up, hence the lack of capital i's and question marks.

And yes joshcampbell115, i am holding out for the iPhone 3 or 4, the one that isn't locked into the AT&T network, and one that gives me as much options as my HTC Touch.

[Compile 'em all]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

how about a button next to Next/previous at the top of the keyboard called 'select'. When pressed it changes the cursor so that you set the start point with the magnifying glass and then move to the end point to highlight the text in between. They keyboard changes context, and has copy, cut and paste buttons. Select copy and the keyboard and cursor mode returns to normal, with the text saved to the clipboard.

I am happy you don't work for the iPhone interface team :p. Adding a button to (an already small) keyboard on a small screen will only make things worse when it comes to data entry.

I am 100% confident copy/cut/paste will implemented via a special finger(s) gesture.

[madmax_2069]

Leopard has that feature.

yea it does but the way its implemented blows

[Project]

I am happy you don't work for the iPhone interface team :p. Adding a button to (an already small) keyboard on a small screen will only make things worse when it comes to data entry.

I am 100% confident copy/cut/paste will implemented via a special finger(s) gesture.

what are you talking about? There is a nice big space between "next" and "done" use that and it wouldn't make the keyboard any more cramped.

Using gestures like swipe and pinch make sense in a real world metaphor. Using gestures totoggle a select mode wouldn't make much sense to your average person. The more abstract gestures that are introduced, the greater the difficulty of using the phone becomes.

[guzhogi]

So if 1 finger brings up the zoom bubble, then why not add a second finger to bring up text selection and when the fingers are lifted up, the options to copy, cut, cancel, and paste come up below the selection?

I was thinking of the same thing. Only thing would be how to implement paste & undo.

what are you talking about? There is a nice big space between "next" and "done" use that and it wouldn't make the keyboard any more cramped.

Using gestures like swipe and pinch make sense in a real world metaphor. Using gestures totoggle a select mode wouldn't make much sense to your average person. The more abstract gestures that are introduced, the greater the difficulty of using the phone becomes.

It would help if all apps were able to go into landscape mode, too. That way, the keyboard could be a bit bigger.

[Compile 'em all]

what are you talking about? There is a nice big space between "next" and "done" use that and it wouldn't make the keyboard any more cramped.

The Next and the Done only appear when you are doing data entry into a text field. Attempting to do copy/paste using the mechanism you propose won't work in an HTML webpage with just text.


Using gestures like swipe and pinch make sense in a real world metaphor. Using gestures totoggle a select mode wouldn't make much sense to your average person. The more abstract gestures that are introduced, the greater the difficulty of using the phone becomes.

On a normal computer you use the mouse to select text, and expecting a finger gesture to do the same is logical (after all, your fingers replace the mouse on the touch-sensitive device).

[lazyrighteye]

I don't know if anyone has said this before, but I have a great solution, and its quite simple!

If you press and hold over text for about 2 seconds, a magnifying glass pops up to enable cursor selection (as it does now). If you move your finger within the next 2 seconds you are moving the text cursor. If you hold for another 2 seconds without moving, a contextual menu pops up.

So 4 seconds reveals the contextual menu, this can be used anywhere, even Safari.

That's not a bad solution. Tho I could see where 4 seconds could start to feel like a long time (which is sad, I know). AT this point, I'd be happy with almost any solution.

I'd love copy & paste, but the #1 reason why I'd like Apple to add it, is so that all the people that can't appreciate anything else until its added can stop posting comments like "OMG WTF!!!" after every update. Sigh. It'd be really nice, but I'd actually prefer the SDK, speech synthesis or even Bluetooth stereo headphone support WAaaaaaaaY before "cut & paste". But, to satisfy the complainers... yeah, please Apple... make the pain go away.

~ CB

While I'm surprised we still don't have an Apple-supported Copy & Paste (shocking), I would prefer a useful way to view pix that non iPhone users SMS me. How hard is it to make the default "view this message go to viewmymessage.com" an active link I can simply touch to take me to the page with their image? Apparently, more complicated than I think.

[clayj]

I don't really care so much about copy/paste, but Exchange/ActiveSync support is a must. I don't mind using IMAP to send and receive mail, and it works just fine; but having to dock my iPhone to update my calendar and contacts is annoying as hell, and the Entourage-iCal/Address Book-iPhone process often results in me having duplicate contacts or appointments. So I'd really appreciate the iPhone supporting ActiveSync so I can turn off IMAP and stop docking my phone all the time.

[Bosunsfate]

Well, it actually may have been more on the rumor side of the ledger, but seems I heard something more concrete than this...

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/17/rumor_iphone_for_corporate_accounts_coming_soon.html

In any event, yeah, you're probably SOL if you signed up for a personal account.
I decided to just get the touch and wait for V2 to link my corporate number.
I'll have to buy the hardware myself in any event.

Yup, totally SOL....and given that the 21st has come and gone, I'd say this is still a rumor.


Sure copying and pasting between sandboxed apps would be possible. They all communicate with the main operating system. It would be a locked out, only user initiated copy command to an allocated memory area, which could be sandboxed from the main system as well and only allowed access by the signed (apple approved) programs.

Think about it...right now google maps hands off info to safari, your contacts, etc. Safari hands off data to the email apps when you click an email address, and even hands off phone numbers to the phone "app". SMS texts with addresses hand off the URL to safari. The clock app tells the iPod app when to go to sleep. Safari opens youtube videos in the special app. The photo app hands off images to email. I could keep going on, but I think you get the point. Its been a few years since I took a programming class, but if all these apps can pass around all this data then I'm sure its possible.

Also...what about copying and pasting images on the web into, say, email? Everyone keeps talking about text!

Good points, though I wonder if the SDK will have those API exposed.

Copying images, that brings up a whole different set of issues from trying to capture text..

You need copy/cut paste exactly like you do on your computer. Copying web page snippets to a notepad, filenames, rearranging text in emails, notes, etc etc etc
do you not use copy and paste all the time on your computer?

I can understand why we want to bring the desktop features, but I think we need to be skeptical of that. The environment is fundamentally different between a desktop and the iPhone. In nearly all of the cases people have raised, Copy/Paste is being used when something different would actually servr the purpose more ideally, see below.

There are time when names & phone numbers or web addresses show up in emails or web pages and are not clickable. I agree its infrequent.

I would hope that this type of limitation is not fixed with copy/paste, but rather with the software being updated to recognize that format.

Again, I'm not against copy/paste. What I don't want is something that clutters up the iPhone or makes it more complicated to use. And things like contextual menus and unnatural gestures are just that, clutter and more complicated.

Better options are to think about what is driving the need to copy and paste and find a more streamlined process.

You need to copy text from one text message to another, why? Because you can't forward a text message. Well add that feature, not copy paste.

I want to move text around in notepad, reorder lists, etc. There are better ways to do this than with copy, paste.

I want to reply to specific items in an email and eliminate what I don't want. This is a good one as really you want to select groups of text and get rid of it.

Anyway, my hope is that they move things forward, not just replicate something that could be so much better.

[tothelimit]

yea it does but the way its implemented blows

i'm a little confused... how is its implementation different from others?

[Mac Fly (film)]

I thought guys might be interesting in hearing that I may have discovered the "perfect" solution to Copy & Paste for the iPhone & iPod touch.

After much deliberation on the matter I may have cracked it!

I think I have discovered the "perfect" Copy & Paste solution for Apple to implement on the iPhone.

Firstly I think the reason we haven't seen a solution to this problem yet is that Apple is unsure which method to use so that "all" users can grasp it. And they really want to get it right first time. Seeing as they are developing a new kind of user-interface here that will no doubt extend well past the realms of the iPhone, I think they are nervous they would add a feature that wasn't as good as the current mouse interface method for performing the same task. This UI is newer, so in theory it should be even easier to use. If it's not then people may ask why.

I am pretty much 100% sure my solution here is a new one. I have looked into this, I have seen the proof of concept videos and read all the forums. It came to me in a eureka moment. And like all good ideas it's brain-dead simple.

Here's my thinking: You know the magnifying loupe on the iPhone? Well to bring that up (as you know) you hold your finger down for about 1/2 a second at any point in a text box. Here's the clever part... when you find the position where you want to start your Copy & Paste at you simply freeze, you hold that position (with loupe present) for about 1.5 seconds and the "navy" text selector within the loupe changes color to "green" (or any other color) right before your eyes. A subtle yet obvious clue that something is happening (i.e. hint hint iPhone / iPod touch user, you are now in select mode).

At this point all you have done is positioned the loupe and held it still for 1.5 seconds. So far so good.

Now, while your finger remains on the screen with the loupe present (as you would do with your mouse) you drag the text selector to the end of the piece of text you want, and you leave go.. and up pops all the clipboard options you'll ever need; Copy, Cut, Paste, Delete etc. You choose an option and you're done.

And when you want to Paste some copied text or a URL or something, you bring up the loupe and position it where you like, hold it for 1.5 seconds until the text selector turns green, and instead of dragging you just leave go and choose Paste from the pop up options.

A long comment for such a simple procedure I know. But it will be easier to do than to write about. That much is certain. And given that you will have to hold the loupe still for about 1.5 seconds, you can bet your bottom dollar you won't ever enter select mode by accident.

One finger always beats two, could you even imagine if you needed to use two fingers to edit that "Home Screen"?

I win! :D

[W1LLk]

This is much easier than everyone is making it.

1. Add a button similar to the "eye" in maps that peels the page back revealing multiple features. In that list have "copy", "cut", & "paste".
2. After selecting copy the peel would fall back and you simply just zoom select with the magnifying glass and release at the beginning of your desired text and repeat at the end of the selection. Your selection could be highlighted in blue so you know what you grabbed.
3. To paste you go to your target "document/text" and hit the "eye-like" button to peel back the menu again and select paste. The option here is whether it pastes where your cursor currently rests or whether you just again use the magnifying glass to finely select an exact point of entry.
4. You could even have other options in the menu like "clear clipboard" or insert "clips" of text you have saved because you use them often...

What does everyone think? Its simple to utilize, easy to learn, the format is already being used in maps and for blind luck I already submitted the idea to apple.

-W1LLk

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)




I think once you start getting into triple tapping it gets counter intuitive. Even more so for triple tap and hold. At what point does it stop? 5 taps?




[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I agree and think Apple is trying to make it simple and intuitive.

[W1LLk]

Thank you. I agree and think Apple is trying to make it simple and intuitive.

This still makes it complicated when you are in a document where you don't type, like a received email... See my idea above...

[GQB]

***

[GQB]

That probably works well if you're right handed, but for lefties like me it would be very awkward as when selecting text from the far left, my middle finger isn't over the top of the iPhone. Using my thumb instead feels unnatural.


I don't think multi-touch knows or cares which specific finger one is using... its observing "touch event 1 and its movement, touch event 2 and its movement, etc.)

[W1LLk]

My approach would be:
1) touch-hold on text until magnifying glass appears.
2) move finger to move cursor to insertion point if necessary
3) drop 2nd figure onto screen, which triggers selection mode
4) slide both fingers right or left to select text
5) remove both fingers and the text is on the clipboard..

To paste
1) touch finger to activate input field
2) touch 2nd finger to paste.

Not sure how you tweek this for images to differentiate, say, between copying image and copying the underyling url.
what if you accidently second finger tap or your magnifying glass doesn't follow you along ever so smoothly... We all need to get away from these multiple tapping ideas. Think of explaining all this to a new user like my father... So quadruple tap if you want to do this, but don't let go! Drag your finger here and then triple tap-hold with a single tap.... C'mon.

[Marx55]

What the iPhone and iPod touch need is Intel the Silverthorne chip inside, and therefore a full Mac OS X 10.5.1 inside too! So, all limitations are wiped out! THE ULTIMATE FULL COMPUTER ON YOUR PALM AND POCKET!

[madmax_2069]

i'm a little confused... how is its implementation different from others?


you take a URL link here (http://www.ebay.com) you want to copy the words only, you highlight them you right click on the highlight and has no place to copy the text, you can either open the url different ways or copy the url or download from. in order to copy the text you have to select edit and copy, or you can take the mouse pointer and put the point on the highlighted area without touching the link only then can you copy the text when you right click. there is no place in the drop down menu when you right click to copy text,

some times when you try to highlight text in the browser and to drag sometimes the highlight don't begin where you want it to begin. and also when you try to highlight text it sometimes highlight the whole page and not the line you want, sometimes it works like its suppose to.

so that is what i am talking about. its there but its crap

[GQB]

what if you accidently second finger tap or your magnifying glass doesn't follow you along ever so smoothly... We all need to get away from these multiple tapping ideas. Think of explaining all this to a new user like my father... So quadruple tap if you want to do this, but don't let go! Drag your finger here and then triple tap-hold with a single tap.... C'mon.

You're too quick for me... I deleted my post after realizing I wasn't contributing anything particularly new or useful. :)

Another user recommends color changes for the cursor, to which I must note that color coding cannot be the only indicator of state change. Too many color blind people (including myself) out here. Something in addition to color always has to be used... movement, size, bolding, etc.

[W1LLk]

What the iPhone and iPod touch need is Intel the Silverthorne chip inside, and therefore a full Mac OS X 10.5.1 inside too! So, all limitations are wiped out! THE ULTIMATE FULL COMPUTER ON YOUR PALM AND POCKET!

LOL and just like a full computer in your pants you would carry the battery in your ever so stylish fanny (hip) pack and the computers cooling fan would turn on and not only cool the chip, but your underwear as well. :p

[GQB]

After reading all of this thread, I now see why its taking Apple so long to come out with THE solution.
I also think this may be intertwined with the SDK release. Cut/Paste has to be nailed down in the SDK, or else the roll-your-own solutions will create a mess.

[grumpy]

Copy and paste. I don't really miss it.

Now a better way to get to my exchange server than through Outlook WebAccess. That would be nice.

And if it is between the two, Apple has to have Exchange as the priority. It is what holds it back from getting more penetration into the business market.

Though, in parallel to that is AT&T support for corporate accounts. When my company tried to add the iPhone to their existing accounts AT&T would not allow it.

If OWA could achieve the same level as the Zimbra mobile client, I'd be happy with that option. But, I'm not looking for 'push' mail to the phone, either.

http://www.zimbra.com/blog/archives/2007/07/izimbra.html

[W1LLk]

no big deal. This cursor change is a moot point if the idea I submitted earlier is used because you initialize in the pull up menu and you would be aware you are in copy/cut/paste mode. The highlighting, regardless of being colorblind would slightly tint the selected text in "copy" and well, in "cut" the text is just removed.

If a visual aid is needed after selecting copy or cut in the menu, you could just use the blue bar idea at the top like in the spoofed "I love you" concept video. This is a neat idea compatible with mine, but to the colorblind it would appear the same as when you are in a call browsing through your phone. Only a few bits of text would differ. What do you think?

[vanmacguy]

My company will go iPhone in a big way once Exchange support is available. We have probably a dozen people here (including me) that carry an iPhone and a Crackberry.

We moved to Exchange2007 and turned of IMAP, before we did that, people could use iPhone but since then, nada.

Cheers.

[sigamy]

I'm really curious to know what situation using the iPhone would warrant using a copy or a paste?

I've been using the iPhone for over six months and have never found myself saying, damn I wish I had copy/paste.

Note that I use my iPhone a ton and I'm not saying its a bad idea. Rather, I'd just like to know what situation brings up the need.

Thanks.

Before 1.1.3 I've wanted to send someone a URL that I've surfed to on the iPhone via email on the iPhone. Now there is a new menu for that.

I've also need to send someone a piece of text from an email w/o forwarding the full email (send someone two or three phone numbers or addresses). I don't use SMS that much but many people want to cut/paste stuff from there too.

It will of course become even more of an issue if/when we get the ability to edit documents on the iPhone.

I can't belive that Apple doesn't know how to implement it. How could they have not thought of cut/paste? I just think they are holding some things back for more testing and maybe, to make another splash with a big software update at the time of the SDK.

[surferfromuk]

Copy/Paste - easy

1) By default - running your finger over any text highlights it in 'blue' like it does on a standard mac when you 'click sweep'. When you release it 'auto-copies' anything selected.

2)Go to the location you want to paste into and hold down until the loupe appears. Underneath the loupe will be a list with the last 5 'copy/paste' entries in it. Just slide your finger directly down into the list - select the one you want and let go.

3) Obviously holding down over a 'swept' section of text and bringing up the loupe will also bring the menu which then replaces that same selected block of text with the 'copy/paste' text.

Why is it considered so hard ?

[tys]

I'm really curious to know what situation using the iPhone would warrant using a copy or a paste?

I've been using the iPhone for over six months and have never found myself saying, damn I wish I had copy/paste.

Note that I use my iPhone a ton and I'm not saying its a bad idea. Rather, I'd just like to know what situation brings up the need.

Thanks.

I wish for copy/paste on almost a daily basis!
The most common for me is package tracking numbers. I do a lot of shipping and receiving. It's such a hassle! I get an email with a Fedex tracking number, I have to find a pen and paper, write the number down, then type the complex number into the Fedex site by hand in Safari. Ugh!
Also, sometimes I want to copy some text from an email into a google search. Or maybe I just calculated a number in the Calculator and want to paste the result into an email. I could go on and on!
I'm sure Apple will come up with something elegant, I just wish they'd hurry it up!

tys

[lazyrighteye]

This is much easier than everyone is making it.

1. Add a button similar to the "eye" in maps that peels the page back revealing multiple features. In that list have "copy", "cut", & "paste".
2. After selecting copy the peel would fall back and you simply just zoom select with the magnifying glass and release at the beginning of your desired text and repeat at the end of the selection. Your selection could be highlighted in blue so you know what you grabbed.
3. To paste you go to your target "document/text" and hit the "eye-like" button to peel back the menu again and select paste. The option here is whether it pastes where your cursor currently rests or whether you just again use the magnifying glass to finely select an exact point of entry.
4. You could even have other options in the menu like "clear clipboard" or insert "clips" of text you have saved because you use them often...

What does everyone think? Its simple to utilize, easy to learn, the format is already being used in maps and for blind luck I already submitted the idea to apple.

-W1LLk

Hmmm, interesting suggestion!
Yes, what if there were an extra 'button' that would peel back a page to reveal all sorts of options? So peel back a page, select Copy, then the page unpeels, and now when you click and hold, you can then drag to select copy (as opposed to just placing the cursor). Peel back to select Paste...
I think I like this concept better than all of the other, over complicated multi-tapping and multi-finger suggestions (tho all suggestions have been entertaining and worth while).
And as you also state: this has already been introduced in Maps, so the learning curve would decrease.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see how Apple implements these seemingly inevitable features.


-- It may have taken 6 years, but I finally hit avatar status! --


Oh - meant to add...
I think more that txt Copy & Paste, daily, I wish I could save an image from an email or web site to some area on the phone that could later be sync'd with iPhoto when I'm back on my Mac (or uploaded to a Web Gallery).

[FieroNate]

While I haven't read all the rest of the information here. I can say that being an old Newton user, I would love a modern newton, complete with pen and iPhone interface. The iPhone is cool but is severely limited in some critical ways. One of them being that the touch screen isn't as precise as I was used to.

That said the easiest way to implement a copy paste is to add it to the tap select function (which btw needs some fine tuning). I've noticed that at the top of the screen the tap select feature doesn't move below the finger, instead it is obscured.

In any rate copy and paste would only require the use of multi touch. The user taps and holds to select the start position as is done now. THEN the user either touches with a second finger OR released and touches a second time to start a select function. the third touch would happen at the end of the selection where a menu would come up to select copy. Then to paste the user could either over select or insert the text with a second finger tap. Seems simple to me

though honestly I think the Newton OS's pen interface was light years ahead of even the iPhone. I only wish they could combine them. I love my iphone but its still an immature device.

[lwongveros]

I've been reading these 4 pages and was surprised that what I consider to be the easiest implementation of copy & paste has not been mentioned. The current method of positioning the cursor within text by using the magnification bubble works very well (at least for me) and is highly intuitive, let's not change this. The way I see it, a highly easy method of accomplishing this would be as follows:

CUTTING OR COPYING:
1. as today, use your finger using the magnification bubble to position the cursor at either the start or end point of the selection you want to either cut or copy
2. while maintaining your finger at that location, use your thumb to hold down the Home button and it will now highlight the text as you now continue to move your finger to the start or end of your selection
3. once finished highlighting your selection, release the Home button after which a pop-up provides the option to either cut or copy (then move finger up or down and lift to select option)

PASTING:
1. use magnifying bubble to position cursor to location you want to paste
2. while maintaining your finger at that location, use your thumb to click the Home button, after which a paste or cancel (if nothing is in the "clipboard", clicking the Home button would do nothing - it would be as if you were copying/cutting and made an error clicking the Home button)

To me, this method removes all the "waiting" proposed from other techniques as well as multi-tap complexity.

Does this seem like a valid technique or am I missing something? :o

[FoxyKaye]

I'd sell my future first born just for effective cut and paste in Leopard.
Sold! I have some significant plans for our backyard, and could definitely use the help in a few years.

Copy in Leopard - Command-C
Paste in Leopard - Command-V

Please PM me for shipping information. :p

Seriously though, I guess this is one of the things that you miss if you use it - I almost never do copy/paste on my Palm.

I'm not entirely sure I believe the "Apple rep" explanation of why C/P isn't there, but it seems at least Apple is aware this is a PITA for its users.

[chimerical]

Leopard has that feature.

I thought he meant cutting/pasting of files.

[diamond.g]

I've been reading these 4 pages and was surprised that what I consider to be the easiest implementation of copy & paste has not been mentioned. The current method of positioning the cursor within text by using the magnification bubble works very well (at least for me) and is highly intuitive, let's not change this. The way I see it, a highly easy method of accomplishing this would be as follows:

CUTTING OR COPYING:
1. as today, use your finger using the magnification bubble to position the cursor at either the start or end point of the selection you want to either cut or copy
2. while maintaining your finger at that location, use your thumb to hold down the Home button and it will now highlight the text as you now continue to move your finger to the start or end of your selection
3. once finished highlighting your selection, release the Home button after which a pop-up provides the option to either cut or copy (then move finger up or down and lift to select option)

PASTING:
1. use magnifying bubble to position cursor to location you want to paste
2. while maintaining your finger at that location, use your thumb to click the Home button, after which a paste or cancel (if nothing is in the "clipboard", clicking the Home button would do nothing - it would be as if you were copying/cutting and made an error clicking the Home button)

To me, this method removes all the "waiting" proposed from other techniques as well as multi-tap complexity.

Does this seem like a valid technique or am I missing something? :o
Nice! I like that.
Sold! I have some significant plans for our backyard, and could definitely use the help in a few years.

Copy in Leopard - Command-C
Paste in Leopard - Command-V

Please PM me for shipping information. :p

Seriously though, I guess this is one of the things that you miss if you use it - I almost never do copy/paste on my Palm.

I'm not entirely sure I believe the "Apple rep" explanation of why C/P isn't there, but it seems at least Apple is aware this is a PITA for its users.

The cut n paste command is probably for files. I have never known Mac OS to have a cut n paste for files.

[lazyrighteye]

I've been reading these 4 pages and was surprised that what I consider to be the easiest implementation of copy & paste has not been mentioned. The current method of positioning the cursor within text by using the magnification bubble works very well (at least for me) and is highly intuitive, let's not change this. The way I see it, a highly easy method of accomplishing this would be as follows:

CUTTING OR COPYING:
1. as today, use your finger using the magnification bubble to position the cursor at either the start or end point of the selection you want to either cut or copy
2. while maintaining your finger at that location, use your thumb to hold down the Home button and it will now highlight the text as you now continue to move your finger to the start or end of your selection
3. once finished highlighting your selection, release the Home button after which a pop-up provides the option to either cut or copy (then move finger up or down and lift to select option)

PASTING:
1. use magnifying bubble to position cursor to location you want to paste
2. while maintaining your finger at that location, use your thumb to click the Home button, after which a paste or cancel (if nothing is in the "clipboard", clicking the Home button would do nothing - it would be as if you were copying/cutting and made an error clicking the Home button)

To me, this method removes all the "waiting" proposed from other techniques as well as multi-tap complexity.

Does this seem like a valid technique or am I missing something? :o

Huh.
Now this actually seems in the neighborhood of 'best suggestion/most likely to be implemented.'
Nice!

[pooryou]

Exchange bites the big one, I feel sorry for people who use it.

[usarioclave]

There's one problem with most of these methods: they forget that the magnifying glass only shows up in editable text fields.

What if you want to copy words off a web page or some other uneditable text?

That's tough. It's hard enough for me to get the insertion point where I want it. Trying to get text on a static page, without a prompt, will be really diffiicult.

[GQB]

Underneath the loupe will be a list with the last 5 'copy/paste' entries in it. Just slide your finger directly down into the list - select the one you want and let go.


Which reminds me... how is it that 20+ years into the gui cut/paste era, and neither major OS provides historical cut/paste?
I remember clipboard add-ons for mac loooooonnnng ago and they're probably still available, but why is this not standard interface by now?

[aardwolf]

Which reminds me... how is it that 20+ years into the gui cut/paste era, and neither major OS provides historical cut/paste?
I remember clipboard add-ons for mac loooooonnnng ago and they're probably still available, but why is this not standard interface by now?

I'm using WinXP with Office 2003, and I've got historical cut/paste. I'm currently using 13 of 24 available.

[Project]

There's one problem with most of these methods: they forget that the magnifying glass only shows up in editable text fields.

What if you want to copy words off a web page or some other uneditable text?

That's tough. It's hard enough for me to get the insertion point where I want it. Trying to get text on a static page, without a prompt, will be really diffiicult.

Indeed. UI design is hard at the best of times. Its even more so when you are effectively working in the dark, as the iPhone team are. What they are doing is completely new, and they have to get it right first time, by balancing what people expect of cut/copy/paste with the new opportunities the multitouch paradigm affords.

[GQB]

I'm using WinXP with Office 2003, and I've got historical cut/paste. I'm currently using 13 of 24 available.

Well I'll be darned.
Learn something every day. Thanks!

But that's an application specific implementation.
I'm talking about OS level implementation, consistent and leveraged by all apps.

[Hattig]

Exchange bites the big one, I feel sorry for people who use it.

Tell me about it! Gosh I could rant al@#%...z

Connection to exchange server lost.

[winterspan]

Holy crap! Do I get something for having the longest multiple-response post ever?

I think the simplest answer is to put a button on the keyboard to change the cursor to selection mode.
what are you talking about? There is a nice big space between "next" and "done" use that and it wouldn't make the keyboard any more cramped.
how about a button next to Next/previous at the top of the keyboard called 'select'.
Not all cut/copy is done within the context of an editable field. Web page text for instance. And adding a button elsewhere wouldn't make sense.


Also, why the hell is copy/paste needed that much? I don't see much use in it on a phone.
I'm right there with ya. I've asked this question before myself and don't know that I've ever gotten an answer. Where is everyone missing copy/paste?
In nearly all of the cases people have raised, Copy/Paste is being used when something different would actually servr the purpose more ideally, see below. I would hope that this type of limitation is not fixed with copy/paste, but rather with the software being updated to recognize that format. Better options are to think about what is driving the need to copy and paste and find a more streamlined process.

Although I think quite a bit can be accomplished with contexual commands and "smart tags" for things like phone numbers, email addresses, and links, you still need copy/cut and paste. If you can come up with an innovative, easy to use method of accomplishing everything you can do with cut/copy/paste without it, then by all means let me know and I'll start using it today.

Here are just a few examples:

[X] = Email, IM, TXT message, Web page
1) Rearrange text in an [X]
2) *Copy* a link from [X] into [X]
3) Look up a word from [X] in wikipedia/dictionary?
4) Copy a paragraph from a web page into an [X]
5) Copy a name from web page into address book (smart tags don't work for names)
6) Copy/Cut/Paste files in future iPhoneFinder

This is much easier than everyone is making it.
1. Add a button similar to the "eye" in maps that peels the page back revealing multiple features. In that list have "copy", "cut", & "paste".
2. After selecting copy the peel would fall back and you simply just zoom select with the magnifying glass and release at the beginning of your desired text and repeat at the end of the selection. Your selection could be highlighted in blue so you know what you grabbed.....

The problem is how to tell the interface when you are done positioning the cursor at the "start" point. What If you bring up the magnifying bubble and let go on the wrong spot. You go to reposition the starting point, but it thinks you are giving it the end point.


Why not just add another button to the bottom bar that locks the page? Then dragging selects text instead of moving the page, and when text is selected a bubble pops up with options to cut/copy/paste. Just tap the lock button again when you're done and the page is unlocked.
To have any kind of precision for selecting small text, you need to use the zoom 'bubble' to position the cursor. So the problem of notifying the interface when you want to start and end the highlighting is still there. It gets especially tricky when someone makes a mistake and wants to reposition the "begin highlight" cursor position.


Copy/Paste - easy 1) By default - running your finger over any text highlights it in 'blue' like it does on a standard mac when you 'click sweep'. When you release it 'auto-copies' anything selected.
Why is it considered so hard ?
Think about this for a moment. What happens when you "run" your finger across a webpage in mobile Safari. [/QUOTE]

CUTTING OR COPYING:
1. as today, use your finger using the magnification bubble to position the cursor at either the start or end point of the selection you want to either cut or copy
2. while maintaining your finger at that location, use your thumb to hold down the Home button and it will now highlight the text as.....


I don't think a good idea including the home button in this type of functionality, as it doesn't seem natural. The best part of the interface right now is that you know you can always return to home with the home button. I don't think it should be used for anything else. (I know the double tap ipod thing...)


iv said it before and il say it again...can the iphone not recognize gestures, so how about clockwise for copy and anti-clockwise for paste or something like that.
pretty simple is what i think..!!
I don't think that is very intuitive. I also personally don't want them to get into the "stylus" shorthand so notorious on the legacy palm stuff. I don't know if it's the best idea, but I like the concept of keeping with the regular computer input "feel". So for highlighting, just as on a regular mouse, you would need a "modifier" action (aka left click and hold).
"anti-clockwise"? lol. :)


We all need to get away from these multiple tapping ideas. Think of explaining all this to a new user like my father... So quadruple tap if you want to do this, but don't let go! Drag your finger here and then triple tap-hold with a single tap.... C'mon. I think there is a middle ground between "quadruple tap" complexity and basic, intuitive multi-touch. The whole point of multi-touch is to use gestures/multiple finger actions to get away from a million drop-down menus (see: Windows Mobile - UGH);


I don't know if anyone has said this before, but I have a great solution, and its quite simple!
If you press and hold over text for about 2 seconds, a magnifying glass pops up to enable cursor selection (as it does now). If you move your finger within the next 2 seconds you are moving the text cursor. If you hold for another 2 seconds without moving, a contextual menu pops up. So 4 seconds reveals the contextual menu, this can be used anywhere, even Safari.
I agree it is very simple, but also very time consuming. Image having to copy four discrete pieces of text.. Although only ~20 seconds, it would feel like an eternity.


That probably works well if you're right handed, but for lefties like me it would be very awkward as when selecting text from the far left, my middle finger isn't over the top of the iPhone. Using my thumb instead feels unnatural.
Haha, I totally neglected you south paws! Sorry :). You bring up a great point, and even right hand operation would have trouble starting a highlight on the far right margin. I don't like the idea of having to use your middle finger or your thumb depending where you want to start the highlighting. Damn.. that's a blow to my original idea. I do however, think some alternative version of that would work. As i mentioed above, I really like the idea of having a "modifier" command (aka 2nd finger tap) akin to the left-click-hold to highlight on a regular mouse.


For me a better solution would be to:
1) position the cursor using the zoom bubble and release.
2) tap once (anywhere on the screen) with two fingers to turn on select.
3) position the cursor using the zoom bubble highlighting the text, then release

On release, the iPhone would display a dialogue box asking me to cut, copy or cancel.

I thought about the idea of having seperate "clicks" for the start and finish of the highlighting instead of having one fluid drag-motion, but in the end I came to the conclusion that it's just not as intuitive.

How about a simple, Triple tap and hold on third... drag a selection (if needed), then a button for "Copy" would appear, after copy is selected, you would make an insertion point somewhere and "Paste" would appear. Am I wrong... is this not the simple answer?????
I think that is getting way too complicated and unintuitive. just my opinion though.


I thought guys might be interesting in hearing that I may have discovered the "perfect" solution to Copy & Paste for the iPhone & iPod touch...
Here's my thinking: You know the magnifying loupe on the iPhone? Well to bring that up (as you know) you hold your finger down for about 1/2 a second at any point in a text box. Here's the clever part... when you find the position where you want to start your Copy & Paste at you simply freeze, you hold that position (with loupe present) for about 1.5 seconds and the "navy" text selector within the loupe changes color to "green" (or any other color) right before your eyes. A subtle yet obvious clue that something is happening (i.e. hint hint iPhone / iPod touch user, you are now in select mode).
I win! :D

You lose. j/k :). Although better than the four second idea, I think having two "layers" of finger-down and-wait is a bit much. It is dead simple though, and easy to show people.

I love the fact that Apple wants to keep things simple. That's a great design philosophy and if you disagree, just look at some of the remote controls sitting on your coffee table....
...My only complaint about Apple is that they somtimes make the more advanced users suffer trying to cater to the less advanced. There's no reason in the world not to offer an advanced control panel where you can turn on various optional features that might otherwise confuse newbies. Turning on cut and paste functionality could be one of those things.
To me, cut and paste is such a common and useful command, that I would definitly want it to be enabled by default. But I do like your idea of Apple being more open with advanced customization. I know they want to keeps things simple, but there is no reason why more advanced functionality can't be added with and on/off toggle in a prefs menu.

LOL and just like a full computer in your pants you would carry the battery in your ever so stylish fanny (hip) pack and the computers cooling fan would turn on and not only cool the chip, but your underwear as well. :p Hahaha. You'd have to carry one of those 12" square battery pads in your backpack. lol.

[chim9999]

i could see touching the screen until the magnifying glass comes up, then maybe by pressing the home button at the same time, it would change the magnifying glass to a cursor... ?? ... maybe.

i know i'd love to actually see more calendar alert options. the calendar is one of the main reasons i got the phone and i'd love to be able to have an alert for, say, the second tuesday of every month.

[darngooddesign]

Its really quite simple.

1. Use the magnifying glass to find the start location
2. With your finger still on the glass tap anywhere with another finger to begin selecting (you do not need to keep your second finger on the glass as you move)
3. Keep your first finger on the glass and move magnifying glass to end location
4. Tap anywhere with second finger to bring up the copy/paste/cut menu
5. Move your finger up to select the action; the selection happens when your finger is removed.

This second finger tap would also be usable to in Safari to copy a link or open the link in a new window.

[cualexander]

Perfect example of why copy and paste is needed. At work, I will be on the road and someone will email me a tracking number for UPS or DHS and if they just email it as the number itself which is the case a lot of the time, I have to flip to safari and type in a few numbers, flip back to email, flip back to safari, or write it down and goto safari.

Such a PITA.

I had no trouble just copying and pasting on my treo.

[Mac Fly (film)]

Its really quite simple.

1. Use the magnifying glass to find the start location
2. With your finger still on the glass tap anywhere with another finger to begin selecting (you do not need to keep your second finger on the glass as you move)
3. Keep your first finger on the glass and move magnifying glass to end location
4. Tap anywhere with second finger to bring up the copy/paste/cut menu
5. Move your finger up to select the action; the selection happens when your finger is removed.

This second finger tap would also be usable to in Safari to copy a link or open the link in a new window.
Wrong on AI and wrong here too :D

darnbaddesign ;)

[Bosunsfate]

Perfect example of why copy and paste is needed. At work, I will be on the road and someone will email me a tracking number for UPS or DHS and if they just email it as the number itself which is the case a lot of the time, I have to flip to safari and type in a few numbers, flip back to email, flip back to safari, or write it down and goto safari.

Such a PITA.

I had no trouble just copying and pasting on my treo.

Talk about a widget I would love on my iPhone would be something like this one. http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/shopping/deliverystatus.html

[wnurse]

Bosunsfate and everyone else who questions the need for copy/paste. As a consumer, i shouldn't have to justify my need for a standard feature. Copy and paste is not some exotic feature, it's standard. Why should I as a consumer have to justify wanting the feature?. The fact that i want it is good enough. If i refuse to buy an iphone cause it does not have cut and paste, that is called capitalism (ie, the marketplace is demanding a feature and a company responds to the marketplace).. for too long, apple has demanded that the marketplace respond to it, instead of it responding to the marketplace. If you can ask the question about cut and paste, you can ask it for a lot of other things.. why do you need internet on a phone (it still makes calls without the internet right?). Why do you need email access on a phone?. Why do you even need a screen on a phone? (can you imagine apple making a smart phone without a screen cause it thinks we shouldn't have one?).. sounds ridiculous right?.. yet, you are willing to just accept apple choice in not implementing cut and paste?. What else would you accept from them?. what if steve jobs came and told you, you only needed one leg, you'd let him chop of the other?. Common... people want cut and paste cause they want cut and paste.. simple. End of story. I don't care how many time apple tells me i don't need cut and paste.. i ain't getting an iphone until it has features i want, period. If it does not have the features i want, i will not buy it.. this is called capitalism. If apple can make billions without adding cut and paste, good for them. No need for them to try to get the entire smartphone market, heck, MS and palm would like to survive, thank you very much. Good thing the iphone is not perfect eh?.

[Gomez]

Instead of the single tap and hold for magnifier, why not just double-tap then hold? Move the finger along or down to select desired text, letting go copies it. Same action again elsewhere would automatically paste (double-tap then hold to paste into desired place).

Does it need to be any more complicated than that?

[Cleverboy]

Bosunsfate and everyone else who questions the need for copy/paste. As a consumer, i shouldn't have to justify my need for a standard feature. Copy and paste is not some exotic feature, it's standard. Why should I as a consumer have to justify wanting the feature?.
Meh, don't work yourself up. Saying its a standard feature without actually saying ON WHAT is like saying shoe laces are a standard feature, before admitting that you're talking about baseball caps. Cut & Paste is NOT a "standard feature" on touchscreen cellphones. Sorry... its not.

How can you tell? Well. See if you'll make this bet. Someone dumps 5 random cellphones in front of you. Now, its a completely random sample. Now... take these pliers. Here. Now, pick any of the cellphones and if it doesn't have Cut & Paste, pull off one of your fingernails. Now, pick another phone to play again? Probably not a fun game. :D

Would Cut & Paste be great? Yup. But I'm not going to listen to a rant about how "standard" a feature something is, while Apple's reportedly struggling to find the best way to do it. WE WANT IT. You don't have to dream up some "entitlement" story to feel okay to pressure Apple. Pressure them ANYWAY. ;)

~ CB

[Bosunsfate]

Bosunsfate and everyone else who questions the need for copy/paste. As a consumer, i shouldn't have to justify my need for a standard feature. Copy and paste is not some exotic feature, it's standard. Why should I as a consumer have to justify wanting the feature?. The fact that i want it is good enough. If i refuse to buy an iphone cause it does not have cut and paste, that is called capitalism (ie, the marketplace is demanding a feature and a company responds to the marketplace).. for too long, apple has demanded that the marketplace respond to it, instead of it responding to the marketplace. If you can ask the question about cut and paste, you can ask it for a lot of other things.. why do you need internet on a phone (it still makes calls without the internet right?). Why do you need email access on a phone?. Why do you even need a screen on a phone? (can you imagine apple making a smart phone without a screen cause it thinks we shouldn't have one?).. sounds ridiculous right?.. yet, you are willing to just accept apple choice in not implementing cut and paste?. What else would you accept from them?. what if steve jobs came and told you, you only needed one leg, you'd let him chop of the other?. Common... people want cut and paste cause they want cut and paste.. simple. End of story. I don't care how many time apple tells me i don't need cut and paste.. i ain't getting an iphone until it has features i want, period. If it does not have the features i want, i will not buy it.. this is called capitalism. If apple can make billions without adding cut and paste, good for them. No need for them to try to get the entire smartphone market, heck, MS and palm would like to survive, thank you very much. Good thing the iphone is not perfect eh?.

wnurse, I don't know what got your so grumpy today but you have really gone off on the wrong tangent.

No one here is saying that copy/paste is dumb idea, or that its nonsense to request it.

What people like myself are asking about are the uses and the specific needs for copy and paste. Because as software developers you have to think about how a person would use it to create something that is effective.

If you don't, then you end up creating crap. Anyway, I'd write more, but I've wasted enough time already.

[RRutter]

SvenonTech.com claims (http://svenontech.com/2008/01/24/the-skinny-on-why-the-iphone-update-lacked-cut-n-paste-and-exchange-support/) to have tracked down an Apple representative at Macworld who was willing to speak about the reason why Copy/Paste has not yet arrived in the iPhone.


Apple! Please let this be soon! PLEASE!

:apple:

[bigmouth]

It's multi-touch, right?

Magnify: Press and hold ONE finger.

Cut and Paste: Press and hold TWO fingers.

As for why we need it, I'd love to be able to copy the address for an MP3 stream within Safari, then paste it into the address bar in Tuner.

[DiamondMac]

Joy, Joy

Been waiting for copy/paste since the launch day of the ORIGINAL iPhone :eek:

Can't wait to use this feature and will almost daily :)

[greycubs]

what is the best application for cutting and pasting photos and text on the iphone?
any suggestions?

[Sambo110]

what is the best application for cutting and pasting photos and text on the iphone?
any suggestions?

iPhone OS 3.0.